October 30, 2024 • 23 mins
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Jennie and Craig discuss the unique parts of November hiking in Washington and share some of their favorites.
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Jennie’s November hiking guide
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jennie Flaming (00:00):
Welcome to The Washington State hiking podcast.
I'm your host. Jennie ThwingFlaming,
Craig Romano (00:05):
and I'm your co host, Craig Romano,
Jennie Flaming (00:07):
Craig and I are happy to have you here. We
provide practical and timely,seasonal hiking advice for
hikers, trail runners andpotential hikers and trail
runners of all skill and abilitylevels that is helpful,
accurate, fun and inclusive.
Hey, everyone. Jennie here, soCraig and I are going to be
talking about November hikingtoday, which is kind of a
(00:31):
special month, and we'll talkmore about that in a moment. But
before we get into the episode,I wanted to make sure that we
answer a question that we gotfrom wind chime. Thank you, wind
chime, for your question overthe summer, we are back in the
Lego studio here in lateOctober, Craig and I have been
(00:52):
mostly our separate ways for thelast few months, and so we're
going to be working through ourquestions and just a reminder
that we love hearing from you.
You can either send a textthrough the show notes, and you
can also leave a voicemail forus on speak pipe. Those are both
in the show notes, and
Craig Romano (01:12):
we will, we will definitely yes, and we're going
to be in the studio a littlenow, because yes, it's, it's
it's wet. It's sweat season now,yeah,
Jennie Flaming (01:21):
and in the spring, because of all the field
work that both Craig and I doyou know, we get every you know,
this year, we got everythingrecorded at the by the end of
May for the summer, and so we'llprobably be doing that this next
year as well. So, but over thewinter, we are going to be doing
more frequent recordingsessions. So wind chimes,
(01:44):
question,
Unknown (01:46):
hey, Jennie and Craig.
I love the podcast. It's nice tohave somebody talking about
Washington. I can. I've been ahiker here in the area for a
long time, North Cascades, andnow I'm down by Crystal Mount
Rainier. So getting a lot of Ican done, I do some overnight
trips and always look alwayswould rather do like a loop than
a mountain back. So I'mwondering if you guys have any
(02:09):
ideas of good loop trips ofbetween 30 to 80 miles that are
lesser known, not just like theWonderland or, you know, the
Timberline and that kind ofstuff. So anyways, keep up the
good work. Thanks for thepodcast
Jennie Flaming (02:26):
was about loop hikes, and so I know that we are
getting into the season wheresome of the awesome loop hikes
are a little more limited by theweather and wind chime. You
actually inspired us to do awhole episode about this in the
spring, so that's going to becoming. So Craig, tell us maybe
(02:48):
one teaser idea, so wind chimedoesn't have to wait forever.
Craig Romano (02:52):
Yeah, so that wind chime specifically was
mentioning longer distances.
And, you know, I'm an ultrarunner, so I definitely know
what you you're at. I love doingloops much so than the mountain
backs. And in my backpackingWashington book, which which
most of the distance are between16 and 50 miles, that sounds
exactly what you're looking for.
(03:12):
I have lots of loops in thereand and it's a statewide book,
70 different different hikes inthere. Again, it's perfect for
backpacking. That's what it'swritten for. But it's also it's
used a lot by Ultra lot by ultrarunners, again, looking for
those, particularly those 20,3040, mile loops. So one that
comes in mine, and I believeyou're you live closer to Mount
Rainier. So it's not, this isnot a terribly far drive to get
(03:36):
down, but the trapper Creekwilderness, which is outside the
Columbia River Gorge, oh yeah,not too far from Vancouver,
Washington. It's actually one ofmy favorite places in the state.
It's interesting. Go there onany, any given day, and you're
going to see, you know, 10Oregon or, you know, five or 10
Oregon plates. There noWashington plates. Seems like
people in Oregon know more aboutit. It's a compact little
wilderness area. The trails downthere tend to stay snow free a
(03:59):
lot longer. I've done long loophikes in there in November, and
likewise, you can get in theremay and sometimes years. Yeah.
So one of my favorite loops,it's in my book, is you go up
Trapper Creek, which is all oldgrowth, spectacular, beautiful
growth forest. You're startingfrom a low elevation, and
there's elk in the area. If yougo, you know, in September,
(04:20):
there's lots of huckleberriesthere. And you can do several
different loops. You can comedown off of observation peak,
Howe ridge. It's ton wonderfulviews. Or you can go down into
the Bourbon Creek area. And boththose views, both those areas,
give them views. You're going tobe looking at a lot of
volcanoes. You're going to belooking right at Mount Adams,
Mount St Helens, Mount Rainier,Mount Hood, Mount Jefferson. It
(04:42):
is just a spectacular hike. Inever get tired of it. If you've
never been there, I think you'llreally enjoy it. So if we get
some dry, dry, sunny weathercoming up, I will just caution
you if it's really, reallyrainy, and during rainy periods
that a couple of creek crossingscan get challenging, so do not
do this after we've had, youknow, three. Four inches of rain
in that area. But if it'sstaying pretty dry and it's
(05:03):
pretty sunny, this is definitelya November loop, you can do
Jennie Flaming (05:06):
awesome. That's great. Craig. And I also wanted
to let everybody know that inepisode 12, which was May 15, we
talked about the trapper Creekwilderness. And I just want to
make another plug for Craig'sbook. Great. I also have this
book, and I also love loop hikesand so, yeah, the link for that
(05:29):
will be in the show notes. Okay,so Craig November.
Craig Romano (05:35):
November is one of those months, you know, it's
it's interesting. It's dreary.
You know, I grew up in NewHampshire. It's dreary there.
It's dreary in Washington, thedaylight is, you know, there is
not much. It's usually gray.
It's usually rainy. But here'sthe interesting thing, and it's
either a good thing or a badthing. I've noticed a trend in
the last 10 years of warmer,sunnier November days. We never
(05:59):
had them in the past. I rememberwhen I first moved out here in
1989 maybe one day, Novemberfell into that department, but
we're getting more of them nowwith the climate change. But the
other thing that's interestingabout November, even without
those warm or sunny daysdepending there are years that
(06:20):
the snow level still is stayinghigh up till December. So
sometimes, you know, typically,what happens here is, we'll get
some snow in the mountains inOctober and everything, then it
warms up again. Yeah. So withthat said, you know, there's,
there's the typical hikes youcan do year round, but there's
still, if you're lucky, we hadsome warming periods. And the
(06:41):
other thing too, you got toremember things you things, you
know, northern slope, you wantthe southern slope, or the sun's
because come November, there'sparts of the mountain there
aren't seeing the sun. They'regonna see the sun until, until
April. So with that southernexposure, and the snow levels
haven't yet hit, we haven't beengetting too much snow yet. There
are still lots of opportunities.
In the beginning of I've donesome, some really cool stuff,
like, yeah, you know, Eagle peakin the tattoos range, yeah, in
(07:03):
the first week in November.
Yeah, without snow. And this ispurely without snow. I've done
mount Dickerman. Anyway, Ishould say so some of these
things that I've done that's,you know, it's a big mountain.
One of the advantages, too, andthis is really important, is
that not only these These trailsare saying it's not free, but
(07:23):
you're starting from a lowelevation. And why is it a big
deal? Well, you're going to goodworkout, but it also means the
roads not going to be icy,right? No, either, because
that's the thing. Some of theseareas still might be open, fine,
but, but that forest road,again, there might be a sheet of
ice because it's in the shade,yep. So again, factors you've
got to look at, yeah, but on alow elevation start on a
southern exposure, both thosepeaks I just told you about are
(07:45):
southern exposure. I've been upthose in November. So those are
the things to look at. And
Jennie Flaming (07:52):
one thing I'll just mention about that too. You
know, one of the reasons whywe're doing an episode,
especially about November, isbecause some years or one day in
November, maybe you can do ahigher Alpine hike, but the next
year, on that same day, therecould be three feet of snow
there. So I just want to make aplug for the Washington Trails
(08:14):
Association trip reports,because that's a crowd sourced
place where you can look andsee, oh, someone. And you know,
that's not a substitute forevaluating the conditions for
yourself and checking theweather forecast, but it can
give you a clue as to kind ofwhat the most recent conditions
have been on that hike.
Craig Romano (08:33):
And definitely, even though, if you're looking
you know, for snow, free air,prepare, I mean, plan again, and
usually November, for the mostpart, you're not going to hit
hardcore snow conditions, butthere's always a good chance
you're gonna get the top there'sgonna be a couple inches, or a
foot, or, again, even on the wayup, if it darts into a shaded
area, just give me some residualsnowing. Or the weather can
(08:55):
change. Well, your weather andchange. So definitely, you know,
you want to plan whether itmeans having some micro spikes,
trekking poles, of course, andthings, and certainly the
clothing at this point, youknow? Well, it's November, even
more. So it's getting colderrepair. But the thing, I think
it can trip up a lot of people,especially after we set the
clocks. Yes,
Jennie Flaming (09:15):
sunset out to our 30s
Craig Romano (09:17):
is coming really soon. Yeah. So if you're one of
those people is used to hittingthe trail of 10, don't do it.
Yeah? Get out there at seven
Jennie Flaming (09:24):
in the morning, which is gonna be, well, it
depends on them. Well, shorter,yeah? But
Craig Romano (09:27):
if you're planning on doing something like Mount
Dickerman, you're not gonna wantto start that at 10 or 11
o'clock. You're gonna you wantto hit that. And you gotta have
a headlamp. You gotta have thatlamb. You want to start in the
darkness. And I would ratherstart my hike in the dark, yeah?
Then come out, you know. So thelight, you know. So again,
definitely plan on that, andgive yourself plenty of wiggle
(09:49):
room on that. You know. Don'tcut it short. So,
Jennie Flaming (09:52):
and that's one thing about November that's very
predictable, the amount ofdaylight and the sunset time. It
is not subject to change,consistent
Craig Romano (10:06):
and even, again, even in areas, you know, down in
the Columbia River Gorge, havebeen in there areas that are
still not, you know, bigwillingness areas, yeah, I've
been caught off guard. Sometimesit's like, oh my god, that
sunlight is going fast, andyou're, you know, 567, miles
from the trailhead. It's that'swhen trail running definitely
(10:27):
helps. But, you know, andspeaking, I should put this plug
in as a runner. I started usingbut certainly hike one of the
better things that I that I takebetter than a headlamp, you
know, it's better than aheadlamp, but a waste lamp,
Unknown (10:39):
oh yeah,
Craig Romano (10:40):
I use those. And the great thing about there's a
company out of Idaho, aspire,they make they started by trail
running companies, trailrunners, and you wear it around
your waist. It's very, verylight. You charge it up. Doesn't
need batteries, so you cancharge it so it's beautiful
there. And this thing shines outa light. If you see that, it
looks, it looks like you're amotorcycle on the trail. The
lights incredible. So what do Ilove about it? Because I've had
(11:02):
to run in the dark, you know,I'm doing some of these ultras.
First of all, as opposed to yourhead, your head's moving left to
right, Your waist is stable, sothat's shining that light
straight ahead. It's lower tothe ground, so you see
everything. Now, I need glassesto drive at night. I can run at
night with this light, withoutglasses. Wow. See all the, yeah,
(11:24):
all the shadows, right? Yeah.
So, if you're planning and nightand we should do, matter of
fact, we should do a program onnight hiking, because there's
some really cool things aboutnight hiking, look into getting
a waste lamp. Ideally, I willhave a waste lamp and a
headlamp, and you are gonnalight up that forest, you know,
you're gonna be able to seethings. So yeah, and have your
extra batteries and all that. Sodon't be afraid of the dark.
(11:47):
That goes back to our spookyhut. Yeah, don't be afraid of
the dark. Embrace it, but, butas everything prepare, right?
There's no such thing as badweather. It's bad clothing
choices. It's just making bad soyou can go out and hike and
enjoy November and enjoy thatearly, early morning or evening
hikes. As long as you have thelighting, you'll see things. I
mean, the critters are out. Imean, the stars, yeah, it could
(12:08):
be a great time out there. Yeah,
Jennie Flaming (12:11):
I agree. Cool.
Okay, so, and you know, kind ofspeaking generally about
November, I feel like I agreewith you that you can still do
some cool Alpine hikes if youget lucky with the weather and
the snow conditions, you can'tcount on being able to do that
in November. But kind of thethree kind of categories of
(12:34):
hikes that I feel like are greatfor November is again, sometimes
Eastern Washington and CentralWashington, less rain there. So
sometimes it gets very windy inthe winter, it gets much colder
than it does in westernWashington, but you know, you
can bundle up and tandem Canyonnear Yakima is one that I've
(12:56):
really enjoyed in the winter, ornot in the well, also in the
winter. But I was thinking ofNovember specifically, when I
had a job where I went all overWashington. That was one that I
did on a day off in November.
Have done a couple times sincethen.
Craig Romano (13:17):
I've done the kettle River Range in ferry
County in November also. Andsometimes, again, there might
not be any snow, or there mightbe a little bit of snow, and
what again, over there tendsyou're not going to get as much.
So you don't have to worry aboutthe November, the big drifts and
everything. But it's definitelycolder over there. I mean, it's
more of a continental climateover there. It's going to be
colder. Be prepared for that.
But the great thing aboutNovember in the kettles, if you
(13:39):
get in there too, is that theWestern larches are still
holding on, still yellow, yeah.
And so you could still, ifyou're still, you haven't got
your larch fill from the ALPA,and unlike maple pass and Blue
Lake, you're not going to besurrounded by a bazillion
people. You're right. Probablygoing to be out there by
yourself, yep. However, here'sthe other warning. You're in,
(13:59):
you're in hunting country. Okay?
Deer hunting is very, verypopular in eastern Washington.
So when you hike in November,especially, be sure you're
wearing orange. So, so if you doencounter lots of times, the
only people I have encounteredin the blues and in the kettles
late near are just hunters thehikers out there, yeah. So when
you say
Jennie Flaming (14:18):
the blues, you met the Blue Mountain south in
stern Washington, another
Craig Romano (14:23):
great area with Western larches. Yes, very dry
area. It's hotter than hell inthe summertime. November can be
really cool in that area. Butagain, you just remember the
daylight so you could still getin some of those mountains. You
know, southeastern andnortheastern Washington are
great, great areas. Justbeautiful areas in general, to
(14:43):
be out there, the wildly startseeing the wildlife changes, the
migrations, you know, the deerand everything. Things are
getting ready for the for thethe incoming winter,
Jennie Flaming (14:52):
cool. Okay, so let's talk about some others.
What are some other you know, Ithink of like beaches and
forests, if you're. If we'rehaving more winter like
conditions on the west side.
What are some of your yourfavorite November hikes? Think
Craig Romano (15:07):
of the valleys. So again, in the big mountains,
think of the valleys, placeslike the carbon river. You know,
carbon River is a great hike inNovember. And again, it's a
great place to get away from thecrowds. You can hike to all the
way to the I've hiked all theway to the glacier in November,
you can go up to, up to GreenLake sometimes. And
Jennie Flaming (15:23):
this is the north side of Mount Rainier
National Park. Again, you've got
Craig Romano (15:27):
a paved road to get there. You're low, so you
don't have to, you know, that'sthat's a good concern. Susan
Creek, down in the southcascades another it's pretty
low. It's a great one to do inNovember. A Trapper Creek, as I
mentioned earlier, green water,the green water on the north
side of Mount Rainier in theNational Forest. Paved road to
get in there. That's anothergood one I've been in in
(15:49):
November. The gray wolf over inthe Olympic Peninsula, the duck
a bush starting really, reallylow there. Great. So some of
these, these River, Boulderriver over near Darrington.
These are wilderness hikes.
Boulder river goes in theboulder river wilderness, but
you're staying low, yeah? Andthat's the beauty. And the older
Jennie Flaming (16:07):
river is, is a wonderful especially
Craig Romano (16:10):
in November, because of the waterfalls, yeah?
So embrace the rain, yep.
Because boulder River in August,isn't that spectacular, those
those waterfalls are trickles,yeah? In November, December, the
water is coming down off thesecliffs as well. It's gorgeous.
It's a hike you can usually doyear round, even when it does
snow, it's just gonna be somewet, sloppy snow in there. It
doesn't hang around becauseyou're pretty low. So these are
(16:32):
areas that I would definitely ifyou want more of a wilderness as
a back country, as opposed tothe foothills or the coast,
which, again, are great Novemberhikes. Yep, I love the islands
again. November. Going out tothe San Juans in November,
you'll have them to yourself.
Yep, tourists aren't going outthere, yeah, that time of year.
Yep. And the Columbia RiverGorge, same thing. People tend
(16:54):
to go out to places like kaidoubecause the flowers with
November things are prettybrown, so there's not a lot of
people that. But you know what'scool about November? You know,
it's Oak Forest. And oak forestare,
Jennie Flaming (17:05):
there are some beautiful colors in the gorge.
Well, November, yeah, the ashesTurn,
Craig Romano (17:09):
turn beautiful.
The Oaks don't really get my butthe Oaks produce acorns, yeah?
Which are the, you know, thefood co op for so many so you
see a lot of critters, yeah,getting ready for wild turkeys.
Which a great theme forNovember, right? Wild turkeys.
Yeah, all over and saying theblue, the blues, the wild
turkeys are all over the place,out there. So if you're looking
for a Thanksgiving theme hike,there you go. Yeah. So love
Jennie Flaming (17:32):
it, um, you know one, one other thing, since you
mentioned the boulder River andwaterfalls in general, November
is a pretty great month forwaterfall hikes. It just
started, yep, yep, and includingeven one like Coal Creek falls
in like Cougar Mountain Park,which
Craig Romano (17:53):
is in belvie.
Right. Coal Creek is gorgeous inthe winter time, that
Jennie Flaming (17:56):
waterfall dries up in the summer, but in
November, the water startsflowing again. It's a very
approachable hike if you live inthe sort of Seattle, Tacoma,
Bellevue area is really nice,yeah. And also the really
popular waterfall hikes likeTwin Falls, Wallace falls, State
Park, Wallace is wonderful inNovember. Is a great time to go
(18:18):
there, way less crowded,especially
Craig Romano (18:20):
if you do it on a rainy day, yeah, yeah. But, you
Jennie Flaming (18:23):
know, you got to be ready for rain, yeah, be
prepared. You know, reallyrelated to that, um, one thing I
kind of wanted to mention beforewe wrap up talking about
November is just weather, right?
Like, like you were sayingCraig, you know, we definitely
do occasionally have a niceNovember day. There's not always
deep snow in the mountains.
(18:48):
Also, the last week of Novemberis the rainiest week of the year
in western Washington. So thatis when, and the last week of
kind of like late Novemberthrough mid December, is when we
have the majority of our severewinter storms, and not
(19:09):
necessarily the ones with snowthat get a lot of media
attention. I'm talking about thedestructive storms that cause
power outages and sometimeslandslides, taking out roads,
bringing trees down. Really needto be careful about changing
conditions, and I personallyreally pay I always pay
(19:33):
attention to the weatherforecast, but starting in mid
November, I am really careful,especially about big wind and
rain storms so that I don't gotstuck somewhere.
Craig Romano (19:44):
Jen, that's really good. You brought that up
because, you know, we're havinga very intense hurricane season.
We look at that, we think, Oh,we're immune to that kind of
stuff, and we certainly, butthere's been some serious wind
storms here, and the last thingyou want to be is up a
trailhead. 20 miles per rowwhere a big windstorm comes in
and has just down 10 old growthtrees on that road. Don't count
(20:05):
on getting your vehicle out ofthere anytime soon. There was a
case. I remember the whole riverwhen it flowed. There was a lot
of people that their cars werestuck icicle. There was a case
in the icicle, same thing. Sostay out of the woods on those
when it's dangerous and theroads are damn the trees are
coming down, to be to be awareof that on a positive note
(20:25):
you're talking about, you know,November, so one of my
traditions I do every November,because spectacular, and she's
around Thanksgiving, and it Ihead up to to BC, okay, so
that's bear with me. It's stillWashington hiking, and I do
Jennie Flaming (20:43):
our neighbor.
You can talk about Oregon and BCand Idaho sensory
Craig Romano (20:47):
here. So I go to Surrey, up to mud Bay, boundary
Bay, and here's a shameless plugmy brand new urban trails
Vancouver, British Columbia bookis coming out next year. It's a
few months. So I have this hikein there. It's one of my
absolute favorite hikes. It's an11 mile trail that goes along
boundary Bay. Yeah, perfectlyflat. Fantastic file. So here's
what I love about November, whenI do late November, 1 of all,
(21:09):
it's the migration,unbelievable, the amount of
birds that are in boundary Bay.
So if you're a burner and someyears, I mean, the bald eagles,
snowy owls, the dunlins, thesandpipers. It is incredible,
yeah. So that's cool in itself.
But what makes it spectacular iswhen you're on the British
Columbia side and you're lookingacross boundary Bay, what is
(21:31):
your backdrop? It's Mount Baker,yeah. And you get out there four
o'clock and the ALP, and glowstarts going on. It is
unbelievable. You've got MountBaker across the way. You're
looking south, think, and yousee the San Juan Islands.
They're not south of you. Andyou've got the point Rob point
Roberts Peninsula. It's aswasson Peninsula. It is one of
my absolute favorite I do it allthe time in November. It's a
Jennie Flaming (21:52):
wonderful, wonderful trail. I totally agree
with you about that, and it iswide and flat, so that makes it
really accessible for and youcan go into a wheelchair,
absolutely. And you can, youknow, you said it's a my 11
miles long. But you also couldjust walk out there for up 100
(22:14):
feet. You'll
Craig Romano (22:15):
have to just get four accesses to
Jennie Flaming (22:17):
it. You choose, kind of choose your own
adventure out there, I agree.
There's some
Craig Romano (22:21):
sculptures out there. And when you go in
November, there will guaranteebe lots of people out there with
very expensive camera equipmentand scopes, because pictures of
birds, they're looking forshort, eared owls, and there's
all kinds of cool stuff you'regoing to see out there. So if
you're a bird geek, put this onyour list. And late November is
the time, because they're allarriving. Yeah, it's a great
time to
Jennie Flaming (22:42):
be there. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Well, happy
November, everybody see you nexttime. Thank you for joining us
for this episode of TheWashington State hiking podcast.
Hey,
Craig Romano (22:54):
do you have questions for Jennie and I to
answer in future episodes? Ifso, the link right below the tip
jar lets you leave a voice memofor us. We'd love to hear from
you. And if
Jennie Flaming (23:03):
you are enjoying this ad free podcast, please
help support it by contributingto our tip jar. You don't need
an account, and there's nocommitment. It's the first link
in the show notes. We also havelinks in the show notes to our
work, both Craig's books, mywebsite, if you would like to
support us further and
Craig Romano (23:23):
again, thanks again for joining us, and we
look forward to the nextepisode.
Unknown (23:40):
You.
Welcome to The Washington State hiking podcast.
I'm your host. Jennie ThwingFlaming,
Craig Romano (00:05):
and I'm your co host, Craig Romano,
Jennie Flaming (00:07):
Craig and I are happy to have you here. We
provide practical and timely,seasonal hiking advice for
hikers, trail runners andpotential hikers and trail
runners of all skill and abilitylevels that is helpful,
accurate, fun and inclusive.
Hey, everyone. Jennie here, soCraig and I are going to be
talking about November hikingtoday, which is kind of a
(00:31):
special month, and we'll talkmore about that in a moment. But
before we get into the episode,I wanted to make sure that we
answer a question that we gotfrom wind chime. Thank you, wind
chime, for your question overthe summer, we are back in the
Lego studio here in lateOctober, Craig and I have been
(00:52):
mostly our separate ways for thelast few months, and so we're
going to be working through ourquestions and just a reminder
that we love hearing from you.
You can either send a textthrough the show notes, and you
can also leave a voicemail forus on speak pipe. Those are both
in the show notes, and
Craig Romano (01:12):
we will, we will definitely yes, and we're going
to be in the studio a littlenow, because yes, it's, it's
it's wet. It's sweat season now,yeah,
Jennie Flaming (01:21):
and in the spring, because of all the field
work that both Craig and I doyou know, we get every you know,
this year, we got everythingrecorded at the by the end of
May for the summer, and so we'llprobably be doing that this next
year as well. So, but over thewinter, we are going to be doing
more frequent recordingsessions. So wind chimes,
(01:44):
question,
Unknown (01:46):
hey, Jennie and Craig.
I love the podcast. It's nice tohave somebody talking about
Washington. I can. I've been ahiker here in the area for a
long time, North Cascades, andnow I'm down by Crystal Mount
Rainier. So getting a lot of Ican done, I do some overnight
trips and always look alwayswould rather do like a loop than
a mountain back. So I'mwondering if you guys have any
(02:09):
ideas of good loop trips ofbetween 30 to 80 miles that are
lesser known, not just like theWonderland or, you know, the
Timberline and that kind ofstuff. So anyways, keep up the
good work. Thanks for thepodcast
Jennie Flaming (02:26):
was about loop hikes, and so I know that we are
getting into the season wheresome of the awesome loop hikes
are a little more limited by theweather and wind chime. You
actually inspired us to do awhole episode about this in the
spring, so that's going to becoming. So Craig, tell us maybe
(02:48):
one teaser idea, so wind chimedoesn't have to wait forever.
Craig Romano (02:52):
Yeah, so that wind chime specifically was
mentioning longer distances.
And, you know, I'm an ultrarunner, so I definitely know
what you you're at. I love doingloops much so than the mountain
backs. And in my backpackingWashington book, which which
most of the distance are between16 and 50 miles, that sounds
exactly what you're looking for.
(03:12):
I have lots of loops in thereand and it's a statewide book,
70 different different hikes inthere. Again, it's perfect for
backpacking. That's what it'swritten for. But it's also it's
used a lot by Ultra lot by ultrarunners, again, looking for
those, particularly those 20,3040, mile loops. So one that
comes in mine, and I believeyou're you live closer to Mount
Rainier. So it's not, this isnot a terribly far drive to get
(03:36):
down, but the trapper Creekwilderness, which is outside the
Columbia River Gorge, oh yeah,not too far from Vancouver,
Washington. It's actually one ofmy favorite places in the state.
It's interesting. Go there onany, any given day, and you're
going to see, you know, 10Oregon or, you know, five or 10
Oregon plates. There noWashington plates. Seems like
people in Oregon know more aboutit. It's a compact little
wilderness area. The trails downthere tend to stay snow free a
(03:59):
lot longer. I've done long loophikes in there in November, and
likewise, you can get in theremay and sometimes years. Yeah.
So one of my favorite loops,it's in my book, is you go up
Trapper Creek, which is all oldgrowth, spectacular, beautiful
growth forest. You're startingfrom a low elevation, and
there's elk in the area. If yougo, you know, in September,
(04:20):
there's lots of huckleberriesthere. And you can do several
different loops. You can comedown off of observation peak,
Howe ridge. It's ton wonderfulviews. Or you can go down into
the Bourbon Creek area. And boththose views, both those areas,
give them views. You're going tobe looking at a lot of
volcanoes. You're going to belooking right at Mount Adams,
Mount St Helens, Mount Rainier,Mount Hood, Mount Jefferson. It
(04:42):
is just a spectacular hike. Inever get tired of it. If you've
never been there, I think you'llreally enjoy it. So if we get
some dry, dry, sunny weathercoming up, I will just caution
you if it's really, reallyrainy, and during rainy periods
that a couple of creek crossingscan get challenging, so do not
do this after we've had, youknow, three. Four inches of rain
in that area. But if it'sstaying pretty dry and it's
(05:03):
pretty sunny, this is definitelya November loop, you can do
Jennie Flaming (05:06):
awesome. That's great. Craig. And I also wanted
to let everybody know that inepisode 12, which was May 15, we
talked about the trapper Creekwilderness. And I just want to
make another plug for Craig'sbook. Great. I also have this
book, and I also love loop hikesand so, yeah, the link for that
(05:29):
will be in the show notes. Okay,so Craig November.
Craig Romano (05:35):
November is one of those months, you know, it's
it's interesting. It's dreary.
You know, I grew up in NewHampshire. It's dreary there.
It's dreary in Washington, thedaylight is, you know, there is
not much. It's usually gray.
It's usually rainy. But here'sthe interesting thing, and it's
either a good thing or a badthing. I've noticed a trend in
the last 10 years of warmer,sunnier November days. We never
(05:59):
had them in the past. I rememberwhen I first moved out here in
1989 maybe one day, Novemberfell into that department, but
we're getting more of them nowwith the climate change. But the
other thing that's interestingabout November, even without
those warm or sunny daysdepending there are years that
(06:20):
the snow level still is stayinghigh up till December. So
sometimes, you know, typically,what happens here is, we'll get
some snow in the mountains inOctober and everything, then it
warms up again. Yeah. So withthat said, you know, there's,
there's the typical hikes youcan do year round, but there's
still, if you're lucky, we hadsome warming periods. And the
(06:41):
other thing too, you got toremember things you things, you
know, northern slope, you wantthe southern slope, or the sun's
because come November, there'sparts of the mountain there
aren't seeing the sun. They'regonna see the sun until, until
April. So with that southernexposure, and the snow levels
haven't yet hit, we haven't beengetting too much snow yet. There
are still lots of opportunities.
In the beginning of I've donesome, some really cool stuff,
like, yeah, you know, Eagle peakin the tattoos range, yeah, in
(07:03):
the first week in November.
Yeah, without snow. And this ispurely without snow. I've done
mount Dickerman. Anyway, Ishould say so some of these
things that I've done that's,you know, it's a big mountain.
One of the advantages, too, andthis is really important, is
that not only these These trailsare saying it's not free, but
(07:23):
you're starting from a lowelevation. And why is it a big
deal? Well, you're going to goodworkout, but it also means the
roads not going to be icy,right? No, either, because
that's the thing. Some of theseareas still might be open, fine,
but, but that forest road,again, there might be a sheet of
ice because it's in the shade,yep. So again, factors you've
got to look at, yeah, but on alow elevation start on a
southern exposure, both thosepeaks I just told you about are
(07:45):
southern exposure. I've been upthose in November. So those are
the things to look at. And
Jennie Flaming (07:52):
one thing I'll just mention about that too. You
know, one of the reasons whywe're doing an episode,
especially about November, isbecause some years or one day in
November, maybe you can do ahigher Alpine hike, but the next
year, on that same day, therecould be three feet of snow
there. So I just want to make aplug for the Washington Trails
(08:14):
Association trip reports,because that's a crowd sourced
place where you can look andsee, oh, someone. And you know,
that's not a substitute forevaluating the conditions for
yourself and checking theweather forecast, but it can
give you a clue as to kind ofwhat the most recent conditions
have been on that hike.
Craig Romano (08:33):
And definitely, even though, if you're looking
you know, for snow, free air,prepare, I mean, plan again, and
usually November, for the mostpart, you're not going to hit
hardcore snow conditions, butthere's always a good chance
you're gonna get the top there'sgonna be a couple inches, or a
foot, or, again, even on the wayup, if it darts into a shaded
area, just give me some residualsnowing. Or the weather can
(08:55):
change. Well, your weather andchange. So definitely, you know,
you want to plan whether itmeans having some micro spikes,
trekking poles, of course, andthings, and certainly the
clothing at this point, youknow? Well, it's November, even
more. So it's getting colderrepair. But the thing, I think
it can trip up a lot of people,especially after we set the
clocks. Yes,
Jennie Flaming (09:15):
sunset out to our 30s
Craig Romano (09:17):
is coming really soon. Yeah. So if you're one of
those people is used to hittingthe trail of 10, don't do it.
Yeah? Get out there at seven
Jennie Flaming (09:24):
in the morning, which is gonna be, well, it
depends on them. Well, shorter,yeah? But
Craig Romano (09:27):
if you're planning on doing something like Mount
Dickerman, you're not gonna wantto start that at 10 or 11
o'clock. You're gonna you wantto hit that. And you gotta have
a headlamp. You gotta have thatlamb. You want to start in the
darkness. And I would ratherstart my hike in the dark, yeah?
Then come out, you know. So thelight, you know. So again,
definitely plan on that, andgive yourself plenty of wiggle
(09:49):
room on that. You know. Don'tcut it short. So,
Jennie Flaming (09:52):
and that's one thing about November that's very
predictable, the amount ofdaylight and the sunset time. It
is not subject to change,consistent
Craig Romano (10:06):
and even, again, even in areas, you know, down in
the Columbia River Gorge, havebeen in there areas that are
still not, you know, bigwillingness areas, yeah, I've
been caught off guard. Sometimesit's like, oh my god, that
sunlight is going fast, andyou're, you know, 567, miles
from the trailhead. It's that'swhen trail running definitely
(10:27):
helps. But, you know, andspeaking, I should put this plug
in as a runner. I started usingbut certainly hike one of the
better things that I that I takebetter than a headlamp, you
know, it's better than aheadlamp, but a waste lamp,
Unknown (10:39):
oh yeah,
Craig Romano (10:40):
I use those. And the great thing about there's a
company out of Idaho, aspire,they make they started by trail
running companies, trailrunners, and you wear it around
your waist. It's very, verylight. You charge it up. Doesn't
need batteries, so you cancharge it so it's beautiful
there. And this thing shines outa light. If you see that, it
looks, it looks like you're amotorcycle on the trail. The
lights incredible. So what do Ilove about it? Because I've had
(11:02):
to run in the dark, you know,I'm doing some of these ultras.
First of all, as opposed to yourhead, your head's moving left to
right, Your waist is stable, sothat's shining that light
straight ahead. It's lower tothe ground, so you see
everything. Now, I need glassesto drive at night. I can run at
night with this light, withoutglasses. Wow. See all the, yeah,
(11:24):
all the shadows, right? Yeah.
So, if you're planning and nightand we should do, matter of
fact, we should do a program onnight hiking, because there's
some really cool things aboutnight hiking, look into getting
a waste lamp. Ideally, I willhave a waste lamp and a
headlamp, and you are gonnalight up that forest, you know,
you're gonna be able to seethings. So yeah, and have your
extra batteries and all that. Sodon't be afraid of the dark.
(11:47):
That goes back to our spookyhut. Yeah, don't be afraid of
the dark. Embrace it, but, butas everything prepare, right?
There's no such thing as badweather. It's bad clothing
choices. It's just making bad soyou can go out and hike and
enjoy November and enjoy thatearly, early morning or evening
hikes. As long as you have thelighting, you'll see things. I
mean, the critters are out. Imean, the stars, yeah, it could
(12:08):
be a great time out there. Yeah,
Jennie Flaming (12:11):
I agree. Cool.
Okay, so, and you know, kind ofspeaking generally about
November, I feel like I agreewith you that you can still do
some cool Alpine hikes if youget lucky with the weather and
the snow conditions, you can'tcount on being able to do that
in November. But kind of thethree kind of categories of
(12:34):
hikes that I feel like are greatfor November is again, sometimes
Eastern Washington and CentralWashington, less rain there. So
sometimes it gets very windy inthe winter, it gets much colder
than it does in westernWashington, but you know, you
can bundle up and tandem Canyonnear Yakima is one that I've
(12:56):
really enjoyed in the winter, ornot in the well, also in the
winter. But I was thinking ofNovember specifically, when I
had a job where I went all overWashington. That was one that I
did on a day off in November.
Have done a couple times sincethen.
Craig Romano (13:17):
I've done the kettle River Range in ferry
County in November also. Andsometimes, again, there might
not be any snow, or there mightbe a little bit of snow, and
what again, over there tendsyou're not going to get as much.
So you don't have to worry aboutthe November, the big drifts and
everything. But it's definitelycolder over there. I mean, it's
more of a continental climateover there. It's going to be
colder. Be prepared for that.
But the great thing aboutNovember in the kettles, if you
(13:39):
get in there too, is that theWestern larches are still
holding on, still yellow, yeah.
And so you could still, ifyou're still, you haven't got
your larch fill from the ALPA,and unlike maple pass and Blue
Lake, you're not going to besurrounded by a bazillion
people. You're right. Probablygoing to be out there by
yourself, yep. However, here'sthe other warning. You're in,
(13:59):
you're in hunting country. Okay?
Deer hunting is very, verypopular in eastern Washington.
So when you hike in November,especially, be sure you're
wearing orange. So, so if you doencounter lots of times, the
only people I have encounteredin the blues and in the kettles
late near are just hunters thehikers out there, yeah. So when
you say
Jennie Flaming (14:18):
the blues, you met the Blue Mountain south in
stern Washington, another
Craig Romano (14:23):
great area with Western larches. Yes, very dry
area. It's hotter than hell inthe summertime. November can be
really cool in that area. Butagain, you just remember the
daylight so you could still getin some of those mountains. You
know, southeastern andnortheastern Washington are
great, great areas. Justbeautiful areas in general, to
(14:43):
be out there, the wildly startseeing the wildlife changes, the
migrations, you know, the deerand everything. Things are
getting ready for the for thethe incoming winter,
Jennie Flaming (14:52):
cool. Okay, so let's talk about some others.
What are some other you know, Ithink of like beaches and
forests, if you're. If we'rehaving more winter like
conditions on the west side.
What are some of your yourfavorite November hikes? Think
Craig Romano (15:07):
of the valleys. So again, in the big mountains,
think of the valleys, placeslike the carbon river. You know,
carbon River is a great hike inNovember. And again, it's a
great place to get away from thecrowds. You can hike to all the
way to the I've hiked all theway to the glacier in November,
you can go up to, up to GreenLake sometimes. And
Jennie Flaming (15:23):
this is the north side of Mount Rainier
National Park. Again, you've got
Craig Romano (15:27):
a paved road to get there. You're low, so you
don't have to, you know, that'sthat's a good concern. Susan
Creek, down in the southcascades another it's pretty
low. It's a great one to do inNovember. A Trapper Creek, as I
mentioned earlier, green water,the green water on the north
side of Mount Rainier in theNational Forest. Paved road to
get in there. That's anothergood one I've been in in
(15:49):
November. The gray wolf over inthe Olympic Peninsula, the duck
a bush starting really, reallylow there. Great. So some of
these, these River, Boulderriver over near Darrington.
These are wilderness hikes.
Boulder river goes in theboulder river wilderness, but
you're staying low, yeah? Andthat's the beauty. And the older
Jennie Flaming (16:07):
river is, is a wonderful especially
Craig Romano (16:10):
in November, because of the waterfalls, yeah?
So embrace the rain, yep.
Because boulder River in August,isn't that spectacular, those
those waterfalls are trickles,yeah? In November, December, the
water is coming down off thesecliffs as well. It's gorgeous.
It's a hike you can usually doyear round, even when it does
snow, it's just gonna be somewet, sloppy snow in there. It
doesn't hang around becauseyou're pretty low. So these are
(16:32):
areas that I would definitely ifyou want more of a wilderness as
a back country, as opposed tothe foothills or the coast,
which, again, are great Novemberhikes. Yep, I love the islands
again. November. Going out tothe San Juans in November,
you'll have them to yourself.
Yep, tourists aren't going outthere, yeah, that time of year.
Yep. And the Columbia RiverGorge, same thing. People tend
(16:54):
to go out to places like kaidoubecause the flowers with
November things are prettybrown, so there's not a lot of
people that. But you know what'scool about November? You know,
it's Oak Forest. And oak forestare,
Jennie Flaming (17:05):
there are some beautiful colors in the gorge.
Well, November, yeah, the ashesTurn,
Craig Romano (17:09):
turn beautiful.
The Oaks don't really get my butthe Oaks produce acorns, yeah?
Which are the, you know, thefood co op for so many so you
see a lot of critters, yeah,getting ready for wild turkeys.
Which a great theme forNovember, right? Wild turkeys.
Yeah, all over and saying theblue, the blues, the wild
turkeys are all over the place,out there. So if you're looking
for a Thanksgiving theme hike,there you go. Yeah. So love
Jennie Flaming (17:32):
it, um, you know one, one other thing, since you
mentioned the boulder River andwaterfalls in general, November
is a pretty great month forwaterfall hikes. It just
started, yep, yep, and includingeven one like Coal Creek falls
in like Cougar Mountain Park,which
Craig Romano (17:53):
is in belvie.
Right. Coal Creek is gorgeous inthe winter time, that
Jennie Flaming (17:56):
waterfall dries up in the summer, but in
November, the water startsflowing again. It's a very
approachable hike if you live inthe sort of Seattle, Tacoma,
Bellevue area is really nice,yeah. And also the really
popular waterfall hikes likeTwin Falls, Wallace falls, State
Park, Wallace is wonderful inNovember. Is a great time to go
(18:18):
there, way less crowded,especially
Craig Romano (18:20):
if you do it on a rainy day, yeah, yeah. But, you
Jennie Flaming (18:23):
know, you got to be ready for rain, yeah, be
prepared. You know, reallyrelated to that, um, one thing I
kind of wanted to mention beforewe wrap up talking about
November is just weather, right?
Like, like you were sayingCraig, you know, we definitely
do occasionally have a niceNovember day. There's not always
deep snow in the mountains.
(18:48):
Also, the last week of Novemberis the rainiest week of the year
in western Washington. So thatis when, and the last week of
kind of like late Novemberthrough mid December, is when we
have the majority of our severewinter storms, and not
(19:09):
necessarily the ones with snowthat get a lot of media
attention. I'm talking about thedestructive storms that cause
power outages and sometimeslandslides, taking out roads,
bringing trees down. Really needto be careful about changing
conditions, and I personallyreally pay I always pay
(19:33):
attention to the weatherforecast, but starting in mid
November, I am really careful,especially about big wind and
rain storms so that I don't gotstuck somewhere.
Craig Romano (19:44):
Jen, that's really good. You brought that up
because, you know, we're havinga very intense hurricane season.
We look at that, we think, Oh,we're immune to that kind of
stuff, and we certainly, butthere's been some serious wind
storms here, and the last thingyou want to be is up a
trailhead. 20 miles per rowwhere a big windstorm comes in
and has just down 10 old growthtrees on that road. Don't count
(20:05):
on getting your vehicle out ofthere anytime soon. There was a
case. I remember the whole riverwhen it flowed. There was a lot
of people that their cars werestuck icicle. There was a case
in the icicle, same thing. Sostay out of the woods on those
when it's dangerous and theroads are damn the trees are
coming down, to be to be awareof that on a positive note
(20:25):
you're talking about, you know,November, so one of my
traditions I do every November,because spectacular, and she's
around Thanksgiving, and it Ihead up to to BC, okay, so
that's bear with me. It's stillWashington hiking, and I do
Jennie Flaming (20:43):
our neighbor.
You can talk about Oregon and BCand Idaho sensory
Craig Romano (20:47):
here. So I go to Surrey, up to mud Bay, boundary
Bay, and here's a shameless plugmy brand new urban trails
Vancouver, British Columbia bookis coming out next year. It's a
few months. So I have this hikein there. It's one of my
absolute favorite hikes. It's an11 mile trail that goes along
boundary Bay. Yeah, perfectlyflat. Fantastic file. So here's
what I love about November, whenI do late November, 1 of all,
(21:09):
it's the migration,unbelievable, the amount of
birds that are in boundary Bay.
So if you're a burner and someyears, I mean, the bald eagles,
snowy owls, the dunlins, thesandpipers. It is incredible,
yeah. So that's cool in itself.
But what makes it spectacular iswhen you're on the British
Columbia side and you're lookingacross boundary Bay, what is
(21:31):
your backdrop? It's Mount Baker,yeah. And you get out there four
o'clock and the ALP, and glowstarts going on. It is
unbelievable. You've got MountBaker across the way. You're
looking south, think, and yousee the San Juan Islands.
They're not south of you. Andyou've got the point Rob point
Roberts Peninsula. It's aswasson Peninsula. It is one of
my absolute favorite I do it allthe time in November. It's a
Jennie Flaming (21:52):
wonderful, wonderful trail. I totally agree
with you about that, and it iswide and flat, so that makes it
really accessible for and youcan go into a wheelchair,
absolutely. And you can, youknow, you said it's a my 11
miles long. But you also couldjust walk out there for up 100
(22:14):
feet. You'll
Craig Romano (22:15):
have to just get four accesses to
Jennie Flaming (22:17):
it. You choose, kind of choose your own
adventure out there, I agree.
There's some
Craig Romano (22:21):
sculptures out there. And when you go in
November, there will guaranteebe lots of people out there with
very expensive camera equipmentand scopes, because pictures of
birds, they're looking forshort, eared owls, and there's
all kinds of cool stuff you'regoing to see out there. So if
you're a bird geek, put this onyour list. And late November is
the time, because they're allarriving. Yeah, it's a great
time to
Jennie Flaming (22:42):
be there. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Well, happy
November, everybody see you nexttime. Thank you for joining us
for this episode of TheWashington State hiking podcast.
Hey,
Craig Romano (22:54):
do you have questions for Jennie and I to
answer in future episodes? Ifso, the link right below the tip
jar lets you leave a voice memofor us. We'd love to hear from
you. And if
Jennie Flaming (23:03):
you are enjoying this ad free podcast, please
help support it by contributingto our tip jar. You don't need
an account, and there's nocommitment. It's the first link
in the show notes. We also havelinks in the show notes to our
work, both Craig's books, mywebsite, if you would like to
support us further and
Craig Romano (23:23):
again, thanks again for joining us, and we
look forward to the nextepisode.
Unknown (23:40):
You.
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