November 12, 2025 • 28 mins
Just had an enlightening chat with Kevin Hubschmann, founder of Laugh.Events, on The Water Trough! From SaaS to LaaS, we're diving into how humor can transform business strategy and connection. Don't miss this one! #SmallBusiness #LaughterAsAService #Podcast
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Episode Transcript
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(00:10):
Welcome to The Water Troughwhere we can't make you drink,
but we will make you think.
My name is Ed Drozda The SmallBusiness Doctor, and I'm really
excited you chose to join mehere as we discuss topics that
are important for small businessfolks just like you.
If you're looking for ideas,inspiration, and possibility,
you've come to the right place.
Join us as we take steps to helpyou create the healthy business
that you've all.
Always wanted.
Ed Drozda (00:44):
Good afternoon folks.
This is Ed Drozda The SmallBusiness Doctor, and I wanna
welcome you back to The WaterTrough where today I'm joined by
Kevin Hubschmann.
Kevin is the founder ofLaugh.Events.
He started his career sellingSaaS, S-A-A-S to Fortune 500
companies, and now his workfocuses on selling LaaS,
(01:06):
L-A-A-S, laughter as a serviceto the same audience.
Leveraging humor and the skillshe has honed as a standup and
improv comedian has helped himto grow and retain a
multimillion dollar book ofbusiness.
Now he helps teams and leadersunlock their professional
potential with those sameskills.
(01:28):
Kevin, welcome.
Kevin Hubschmann (01:29):
Hey Ed, how's it going?
Happy to be here.
Ed Drozda (01:31):
I'm excited to have you here.
I've not been in this closeproximity to a comedian in my
life, and I always avoid thefront row, so let's face it...
Kevin Hubschmann (01:41):
You're in good hands.
No roasting here.
Ed Drozda (01:44):
Oh, goodie.
Well, I'm really excited aboutthis opportunity.
I want you to know, Kevin, Ibelieve strongly in the power of
laughter as well.
I think it goes a long way toboosting civility, encouraging
comradery, and buildinglegitimate and strong
foundations.
I wanna start out by taking youback to an earlier time in your
(02:05):
life.
During the SaaS days your bossmade this statement to you: stop
being so salesman and startbeing more Hubschmann.
Tell us about that moment.
Kevin Hubschmann (02:19):
Yeah, that was a real defining moment in my
career.
Growing up, into high school,into college, I always led with
being a bit silly, and I thinkthat mentality caused people to
maybe not take me as seriously.
So, once I got into thecorporate world so to speak, my
(02:40):
first job outta college, I madethe decision, hey now's the time
to tighten this tie, get alittle bit more serious.
If you want people to take youseriously you gotta take
yourself seriously.
That was the mentality that Itold myself, and that's how I
approached work.
I went into work with this nineto five personality as I would
later call it.
(03:00):
People who would see me at workwere very surprised to see what
I would be like outside of work.
A little bit levity in my life alittle bit more during my five
to nine and I was really justall business when it came down
to it.
That was something that I reallydidn't realize that I was doing
(03:21):
after a certain point.
At first it was conscious andthen it became unconscious, but
ultimately I'm on a sales call,new manager, and he's monitoring
things.
He's met me and I'm very casualwith him, very loose with him,
making him laugh, we're having agood time.
Then I get on this call and hesees that I've sort of shifted.
I'm really all business and I'mlooking to ask the right
(03:44):
questions and get the rightanswers.
It was very regimented andpretty stiff, and when he got
off the call he said it was agood call, but I need to tell
you something.
You need to stop being sosalesman and you need to start
being more Hubschmann.
That was an eye-opening momentfor me'cause it was someone
taking a mirror up to my faceand showing me how tight my tie
(04:08):
was and basically being like,you know, that's not how you win
business.
And that's not how you influencepeople.
And that's not how you makeconnections.
It's not being reallyprofessional, so to speak.
I need you to show more of yourpersonality.
I need you to be a little bitmore loose and be a little bit
(04:28):
more fun and be the guy that Isee every day in this role.
And that was the moment where Isaid, yeah, I need to improve
that part of me.
Simultaneously I started to takeimprov classes in New York City.
New York City capital of comedyin my opinion, and I started to
do these private classes with mybrother and my best friend.
(04:51):
I would then see that was reallyhelping me loosen up and it was
allowing me to really beauthentic.
The next day I would come in andI felt like I had a leg up on
everybody, because I was nottrying to get my point across.
Suddenly I was really open toeveryone's opinions more than I
was before.
My ears were wide open and I wasalso stopping myself from
(05:15):
interrupting people.
I stopped saying, hey, it's myturn to talk.
I started to use that yes andmentality.
I started to improve mycommunication.
I started to build off ofpeople's ideas, interject mine
when they made sense, but liftthe people around me up.
Then when it was my turn tospeak I was able to think of the
(05:35):
context of the room and what wassaid.
Suddenly the words that I wassaying had a lot more power
because they were a collectivethought in a way,'cause I was
taking all the other thingspeople were saying and then
interjecting my own opinions andbuilding off things.
So it was that moment where itwas like, hey, you don't have to
be this invention of a personthat you've made up.
(05:59):
You can really be yourself.
You can be that five to ninepersonality during your nine to
five.
Ed Drozda (06:06):
Do you suppose your boss was excited or perhaps
surprised by the person that heunleashed?
Kevin Hubschmann (06:13):
You know what, I don't think he knew the guy
before so much.
He really just got a taste ofit, and I think that's what
makes a really great manager.
He saw where he could make animpact right away.
I think that really wassomething I'm very grateful to
him, and that's the differencebetween a manager that's on your
case about hitting quota and amanager that's about unleashing
(06:35):
your potential.
I think he wasn't surprisedbecause he didn't let that other
piece of me linger too much,'cause he said I already know
the version I like and I knowthe version that everyone else
likes, and it's about time youstart to like that version too.
Ed Drozda (06:50):
Powerful words coming from a manager to literally let
their own ego go, to allow asubordinate in this case, to
thrive.
Kevin Hubschmann (07:00):
Yeah, I think that's a manager's job, to feel
out the best way that they cansupport the individual, with the
ultimate goal of reaching quotaas a team.
Especially when it comes tosales.
Sales is a world of individualcontributors that are working
together on a team.
It's like the Ryder Cup;everyone's playing for team USA,
(07:22):
so to speak.
All these individuals, andthey're individual golfers used
to playing independently nowhave to come together, band
together, and they have toinclude teamwork.
I think that's a reallydifficult thing for a manager.
How do you balance getting themost out of your individual
contributor while also having aculture that you're setting as a
manager for your whole group?
How do you make sure that you'reworking on that small thing with
(07:44):
the big thing in mind?
Like you said, it takes a lotfor a manager to take his ego
down, and take the money out ofit for a minute, and say how do
I unleash this person,'causethat's ultimately gonna get me
to my goal, which is reachingsales goals and revenue targets
and reaching our team's fullpotential.
Ed Drozda (08:04):
And a manager such as this also realizes that he or
she may be unleashing newpossibilities that will no
longer keep you in the fold.
Kevin Hubschmann (08:17):
Absolutely.
For better or for worse thatallowed me to stop having such
tunnel vision on the person thatI was trying to become, which
was maybe a manager of sales ora VP of sales, or just staying
in the sales world.
I think it unlocked a curiosityin me that I've always had; it
allowed me to say well that'swho I am.
(08:39):
That's the Hubschmann that I am,this person that is boundlessly
curious.
So let me be curious and thatreally helped me too because in
sales, that allowed me to bemore consultative in my
approach.
I started to be very curiousabout, hey, what are your
problems?
Instead of pitching my solutionsI was listening so much harder
(09:00):
and so much more consciously andsaying, I'm not gonna give my
pitch until I know it's relevantto you.
And then I'm either going to sayI actually think something else
is better for you or this is thething that you care about.
I'm gonna skip slides onethrough six and let's just focus
on seven because this is whatyou talked about,'cause I
(09:22):
listened the whole time, and I'mnot gonna distract you with the
out of the box presentation.
I'm making this all about you.
That got me interested in thedetails outside of just closing
the sale.
Like, how is this impacting yourorganization?
What's your infrastructure likeat your business and how does
that work and how does marketingwork and how do systems
(09:44):
integrations work?
Suddenly, I didn't just careabout closing the deal.
I cared about making a reallygreat holistic solution and
taking that from that let'sclose the deal to let's figure
out something that's gonna bebest for you so you have more
trust in me.
Ultimately that actually led tomore money.
It led to them saying, well, wewere thinking about one seat,
(10:07):
but the way you just said it,maybe we need five, maybe we
need 10.
Maybe we need a global license.
What does that look like?
I think that's really what thatdid.
I think it really opened up mythird eye of curiosity and said
let's start diving deeper intothe real problems here.
Ed Drozda (10:23):
Curiosity is certainly the pathway to
possibility, there's no questionabout that.
I think it's pretty obvious thatfor yourself, you were satisfied
with this newfound awareness.
What was your take on yourclient's level of satisfaction
with the person that you were,they may not have seen the
change, but what was theirimpression about this person?
Kevin Hubschmann (10:46):
I think it resulted in a lot more trust,
ultimately.
I think they could suddenly seethat I was genuinely interested
in solving their problems, whichultimately makes them look good
and makes them interested inspeeding things along, having
the right conversations,bringing in the right people.
(11:07):
You know, I wasn't just pitchinga product, I was trying to make
them look awesome at work.
That's really what I wanted todo.
That was my ultimate goal; howcan I ask the right questions,
listen to their problems andprescribe a solution that's not
just me pitching a productbecause they know I'm a
salesperson.
They know I'm gonna getcommission off of this, and you
(11:27):
can smell that a mile away.
So, when I put that airfreshener on my sale, it
suddenly took a different turn.
I'm still friendly with withpeople that I sold six, seven
years ago.
We have nothing to sell eachother, but that trust was built
and that was the foundation ofour relationship.
Ed Drozda (11:45):
As a business coach trust is absolutely a
requirement.
I also believe that in sales,the quota can move people to be
more mindful of the quantity ofthe work they perform versus the
quality.
I don't mean this as a negativetowards salespeople.
I think that in many cases thecompelling force behind their
(12:05):
work makes it difficult to focuson things like trust.
Kevin Hubschmann (12:11):
Absolutely.
You can't minimize the fact thathaving a quota over your head is
scary and oftentimes distractingto your sales pitch.
That's why increasing that trustand it'll ultimately increase
your deal size and deal volumeand also get the crap out of
your pipeline like the thingsthat don't fit and that you're
(12:32):
chasing.
I genuinely believe that whenyou go forward with these tools,
trying to build trust, you doseparate yourself amongst your
competitors as well.
You are being that first line ofdefense.
You're giving that firstimpression and that could really
accelerate a deal.
Whereas if you are just giving apitch, you're no different than
(12:57):
a personalized email, or aproposal that just has numbers,
cost savings, and things likethat.
So I think that's also whatseparates people and makes their
pipeline legitimate.
It doesn't just make it like,what's gonna close?
Well, I sent them the pricingand let's see how it goes, and
whatever.
I think that also increases yourclose rate, and I think it can
(13:17):
ultimately make that quota alittle less intimidating.
Ed Drozda (13:21):
I appreciate what you're saying.
Now we know you went from SaaSto LaaS.
I hope I'm not messing it up bysaying SaaS to LaaS but, oh
that's it.
You nailed it.
So you went from SaaS to LaaS.
We know how it began, the seedsthat were planted by your boss,
or added on to stuff that you'dalready fertilized before that.
So in the current environment,are you working with salespeople
(13:44):
largely, or people in industryat large?
What is your focus today?
Kevin Hubschmann (13:52):
It's certainly a mixed bag.
I think different organizationshave different goals and
different problems.
I'll break down our business abit more.
There's our virtual corporatecomedy experiences, which are
really fun and hilarious.
Moments where people are likewe've had a rough quarter, we've
(14:12):
had a rough month, or we'veworked our tails off.
We really wanna get in a roomwith each other, stop thinking
about work, and we want to havefun.
We just wanna laugh.
We take their work lingo, theirmemes, their culture, and we
create comedy shows about it.
So that can be a sales team justwent through a crazy quarter.
That can be an accounting teamthat just went through an insane
(14:35):
busy period.
That can be a product team thatjust launched something, like a
celebration moment.
We also have in-personexperiences that fill that same
celebration need.
But when it comes to somethingthat has really become a staple
of our business it's calledlaughing and development.
These are very much tailored toyour business goals.
(14:56):
Laughing and development isapplied improv, basically skills
that you learn doing improv.
Skills that you learn doingstandup, skills that comedians
have honed.
That is thinking on your feet,communication, listening, active
listening, taking risks, havinga supportive environment.
There's boundless amountsdifferent things you can get
(15:17):
from it.
That's when we take an intakeform from people and we say,
what are you actually interestedin getting out of this?
And out of like a hundredexercises we can do we're gonna
dial it into the eight or 10that's gonna fit for your group.
For salespeople it's perfectbecause that's where my
specialty can come into place.
I've been in your shoes.
I know what that's about, andit's really effective for
(15:40):
salespeople because there'sactual data out there that shows
that these types of workshopsincrease sales conversions.
When Salesforce implementedapplied improv workshops their
teams saw a 36% increase insales conversions.
That's a serious number that youcan look at and go, okay, for
(16:03):
our offsite or our saleskickoff, whatever it might be,
this is going to allow us toactually have tools that we can
bring back to our clients andbring back to our sales cycle
and our process.
That's where we've seen it bevery successful in the sales
world, but applied Improv is anexcellent tool for brainstorming
too.
(16:23):
So it's really good formarketing teams, product teams,
and engineering teams.
Improv makes you focus ondivergent thinking.
We live in a world now with AIthat is based on convergent
thinking, like hey give me thisanswer to this problem, and
that's the answer.
Whereas we're human, and we needto work that divergent muscle in
(16:45):
our brain and come up with 10bad ideas so we'll have one good
idea.
Let the floodgates open up.
That's really all these appliedimprov experiences are doing for
boosting creativity and teamcollaboration.
It's basically how do we createa really supportive environment
so there's no bad answers, nobad ideas.
(17:06):
And people say that all thetime.
No bad ideas, let's throw itout.
But what kind of environment areyou actually creating so someone
can fall flat on their face andget supported in the same way
that if they hit a home run.
That is what these exercisesare; to create that environment
so teams can take that andlaunch it into their day-to-day
(17:26):
lives in the way that theycommunicate as a team.
Ed Drozda (17:29):
I think it's really important to make the
distinction between appliedimprov and comedy.
And although they do tend to getconflated, right?
The way that you're describingapplied improv is very much akin
to a process called designthinking that we use in business
(17:51):
school.
I think it's fascinating the waythat you've taken that concept
and applied it like this.
I've never looked at it fromthis angle before, but I can
assure you it will inform me thenext time I'm engaged in the
design thinking process.
Kevin Hubschmann (18:06):
I think there is this common misconception.
That's why we actually changedit to laughing and development
instead of calling it improv.
We didn't invent this process.
This has been going on foryears.
We just decided that the wordwas maybe a bit too harsh, but
also maybe a bit too conflatedwith comedy.
And when people think aboutimprov they think about Whose
(18:26):
Line Is It Anyways, theseabsolute comedic geniuses that
are making us laugh.
Every time I'm like, hey let'sdo improv they're like, well I'm
not very funny.
And that's the last thing wewant you to do.
Improv comedy is not aboutcoming up with the best
one-liner.
It's not about coming up withthe funniest joke.
It's about listening to yourpartner, building off of that
(18:48):
idea, making your partner lookgreat.
And if you make your partnerlook great, it makes the scene
look great.
It makes the show fantastic.
Laughter is the outcome thathappens when you follow these
rules.
Just like in a business setting,sales can be an outcome, idea
generation, innovation can be anoutcome.
When you follow these rules ofsupport and having each other's
(19:11):
backs, collaboration, andenhancing that communication,
that's what applied improv isall about.
It's way different than beingperformative; it's not
performative really in any way.
Ed Drozda (19:24):
So when you are talking to a prospective client,
when you're in that discussionphase, what sorts of questions
are being posed to you?
Kevin Hubschmann (19:35):
I'll focus on laughing and development,
applied improv side of things,because usually on the virtual
comedy side the biggest questionthey ask is, is this gonna be
clean and appropriate?
That's like their biggestconcern, and obviously that is
what our business does.
Ed Drozda (19:48):
But the other side is more, I don't wanna say
theoretical, it's more creative.
Kevin Hubschmann (19:54):
Yeah, on that side of things the biggest
question that we get is hey,what happens if no one's into
this?
What happens if we have somepeople that are really
introverted and really shy?
Do you think that they're gonnabe good?
It's not a matter of if they'regoing to be good, it's how we've
set up these workshops.
It's not like we're bringingfive people on stage and action.
(20:15):
We're dipping your toes in bydoing a lot of warmup exercises
that are going to get youcomfortable with everyone around
you creating that supportiveenvironment.
And we're slowly titrating themup on the dose of improv and
that dose of creativity,innovation, and team
collaboration, and making youfeel comfortable to be your
(20:36):
true, authentic self.
My favorite moment that I've haddoing these was an event with
the Rutgers Business Schoolalumni.
And you know, same question cameup.
There's gonna be people thataren't interested in doing it.
That happened; there were peoplethat sat down and that
eventually got up.
They were waiting to see what itwould be like, but someone came
up to us at the end of the eventand said I really want to thank
(20:59):
you for doing this event.
I was very nervous.
It was a networking event, analumni networking event.
I don't even like alumninetworking.
It stresses me out, and I'm sortof an extroverted person.
It's very unnatural to me.
She was saying to me I was inthe bathroom, panicking, really
concerned.
I don't know what to do in thissetting, having drinks and
(21:21):
talking to people or networking.
What do you do for work?
What is all this stuff?
That was her fear.
But when we started to do improvshe got so into it.
Arguably the most introvertedperson in the room that was so
concerned about the normalsocialization that happens at
networking event, and then wedid one of these applied improv
(21:43):
sessions, these laughing anddevelopment sessions, and it
allowed her to feel supportivein the group and allowed her to
say I can be my true, authenticself.
She said it was the first timeshe felt able to connect with
people in over two years and itwas right out of the pandemic.
It's stuff like that, thatreally pushes me to continue to
(22:05):
spread this offering around.
Even the most introvertedpeople, they love it because
you're giving them theopportunity to slowly dip your
toes, and they realize that theyjust need a supportive
environment to becomeextroverted.
That's the layer that's missing.
It was an awesome experience andeveryone got a ton out of it,
(22:27):
and she said she came away withfive or six business cards that
she ultimately wouldn't have.
I related so much to that.
People say hey, you're acomedian.
You go on stage all the time.
How could you relate to that?
It's because networking can beso unnatural and it can be like
I hope what I have to give youis what you're looking for, and
that this exchange of goods isgonna be equitable.
(22:50):
But with improv and impliedimprov, titles don't exist.
What you do doesn't exist.
You're doing a super silly thingand asking the person in front
of you to do the same sillything.
And if they don't, they'reactually throwing it all off, so
there is this exchange ofvulnerability and silliness, and
it allows people to make thisall full circle.
(23:11):
I don't need to be this stiffnine to five person.
I can bring my five to ninepersonality out.
I don't have to be so salesmanand I can be a bit more
Hubschmann, or whatever yourlast name is.
Ed Drozda (23:22):
So my boss would've said to me I should be more
Drozda.
Okay.
All right.
I wish I was in a position totake advantage of one of your
programs because I can see whereit'd be beneficial.
To that point, what do you seeas the three chief takeaways
that your clients get out of anengaging process.
Kevin Hubschmann (23:44):
It depends because improv can go a ton of
different ways.
I mentioned there's hundreds ofexercises that can be tweaked
and altered.
It starts off with what are youlooking to get out of this and
we're gonna be able to deliverthat.
But high level, what people getfirst is support.
A supportive environment goes areally long way.
And what are you doing in yourwork culture to make risk taking
(24:08):
normalized, for ideas to bethrown out and accepted?
What are you doing to createthat very supportive culture?
The second thing is activelistening.
Active listening allows you tosuppress your urge.
I don't know, I have this urgeconstantly and I always have to
(24:30):
suppress it.
Think back to this phrase Iheard in improv, which said"F"
your good idea.
That was something you would betaught.
It would say, you have an idea?
Well, push it down and listen toeveryone else first, because
this is a team thing.
That has to do with salesenvironments, clients, and
things like that.
Are you actually activelylistening to them?
(24:52):
Are we actively listening to ourteammates, to our clients, to
our prospects?
That's a really huge thing.
The third thing is communicationand collaboration.
The wording that you use ishuge.
Yes-and, is the most popularthing that people know about
improv, but what they might notknow is no-but, or no-or, or
(25:15):
yes-or.
Those are words that stop ideageneration and collaboration.
The words that you use have areally big impact on how to
continue to have ideas movingforward.
There's a great exercise that wedo that says hey, we're going to
a picnic.
This is something that yourlisteners can do.
(25:36):
Hey, we're going to a picnic andbringing some things, and now
everyone's gonna say whatthey're bringing and you have to
say after they say it like, I'mbringing a blanket.
You have to say no-but I'mbringing this and then we'll do
it again and you say yes, or I'mbringing this.
Then you do it a third time andyou say yes-and, and suddenly
(25:57):
it's a party.
Suddenly people are stoked to goto this picnic.
It sounds like the most amazingthing.
It doesn't sound like we'rehaving 15 individual picnics.
We're having one awesome picnicsoup, and this is gonna be a
really good time.
Ed Drozda (26:12):
Thank you so much.
I can envision this thing.
Kevin, our time has come to anend.
Before we say goodbye, is thereanything you'd like to leave us
with?
Kevin Hubschmann (26:26):
I think what you said in the beginning, never
underestimate the power of alaugh.
Never underestimate levity,never underestimate the ability
to work with people in thatenvironment.
I have found over the years ofworking with comedians that
their work ethic and the rulesthat they live by in terms of
how they approach their craftcan and should be emulated by
(26:49):
everybody in the business world.
That can be in the form ofcuriosity, in the form of
deadlines, in the form ofworking hard to achieve what
you're passionate about.
Ed Drozda (27:01):
Folks, once again my guest today Kevin Hubschmann is
the founder of Laugh Events.
He's a comedian, an improv guy,a guy who went from SaaS to
LaaS.
Kevin helps business people tofind an enriching opportunity
that's right in front of all ofus, but I venture that few of us
(27:21):
probably appreciate it.
It's a lot more than laughter.
It really is important, and Ihope you listen carefully to the
things that he brought to ustoday.
Kevin, thank you so much forbeing with us.
Kevin Hubschmann (27:33):
Thanks, Ed.
It was a lot of fun.
Ed Drozda (27:35):
Thank you.
Folks this is Ed Drozda, TheSmall Business Doctor and here
at The Water Trough, I wannawish you both a healthy business
and a business full of laughter.
Welcome to The Water Troughwhere we can't make you drink,
but we will make you think.
My name is Ed Drozda The SmallBusiness Doctor, and I'm really
excited you chose to join mehere as we discuss topics that
are important for small businessfolks just like you.
If you're looking for ideas,inspiration, and possibility,
you've come to the right place.
Join us as we take steps to helpyou create the healthy business
that you've all.
Always wanted.
Ed Drozda (00:44):
Good afternoon folks.
This is Ed Drozda The SmallBusiness Doctor, and I wanna
welcome you back to The WaterTrough where today I'm joined by
Kevin Hubschmann.
Kevin is the founder ofLaugh.Events.
He started his career sellingSaaS, S-A-A-S to Fortune 500
companies, and now his workfocuses on selling LaaS,
(01:06):
L-A-A-S, laughter as a serviceto the same audience.
Leveraging humor and the skillshe has honed as a standup and
improv comedian has helped himto grow and retain a
multimillion dollar book ofbusiness.
Now he helps teams and leadersunlock their professional
potential with those sameskills.
(01:28):
Kevin, welcome.
Kevin Hubschmann (01:29):
Hey Ed, how's it going?
Happy to be here.
Ed Drozda (01:31):
I'm excited to have you here.
I've not been in this closeproximity to a comedian in my
life, and I always avoid thefront row, so let's face it...
Kevin Hubschmann (01:41):
You're in good hands.
No roasting here.
Ed Drozda (01:44):
Oh, goodie.
Well, I'm really excited aboutthis opportunity.
I want you to know, Kevin, Ibelieve strongly in the power of
laughter as well.
I think it goes a long way toboosting civility, encouraging
comradery, and buildinglegitimate and strong
foundations.
I wanna start out by taking youback to an earlier time in your
(02:05):
life.
During the SaaS days your bossmade this statement to you: stop
being so salesman and startbeing more Hubschmann.
Tell us about that moment.
Kevin Hubschmann (02:19):
Yeah, that was a real defining moment in my
career.
Growing up, into high school,into college, I always led with
being a bit silly, and I thinkthat mentality caused people to
maybe not take me as seriously.
So, once I got into thecorporate world so to speak, my
(02:40):
first job outta college, I madethe decision, hey now's the time
to tighten this tie, get alittle bit more serious.
If you want people to take youseriously you gotta take
yourself seriously.
That was the mentality that Itold myself, and that's how I
approached work.
I went into work with this nineto five personality as I would
later call it.
(03:00):
People who would see me at workwere very surprised to see what
I would be like outside of work.
A little bit levity in my life alittle bit more during my five
to nine and I was really justall business when it came down
to it.
That was something that I reallydidn't realize that I was doing
(03:21):
after a certain point.
At first it was conscious andthen it became unconscious, but
ultimately I'm on a sales call,new manager, and he's monitoring
things.
He's met me and I'm very casualwith him, very loose with him,
making him laugh, we're having agood time.
Then I get on this call and hesees that I've sort of shifted.
I'm really all business and I'mlooking to ask the right
(03:44):
questions and get the rightanswers.
It was very regimented andpretty stiff, and when he got
off the call he said it was agood call, but I need to tell
you something.
You need to stop being sosalesman and you need to start
being more Hubschmann.
That was an eye-opening momentfor me'cause it was someone
taking a mirror up to my faceand showing me how tight my tie
(04:08):
was and basically being like,you know, that's not how you win
business.
And that's not how you influencepeople.
And that's not how you makeconnections.
It's not being reallyprofessional, so to speak.
I need you to show more of yourpersonality.
I need you to be a little bitmore loose and be a little bit
(04:28):
more fun and be the guy that Isee every day in this role.
And that was the moment where Isaid, yeah, I need to improve
that part of me.
Simultaneously I started to takeimprov classes in New York City.
New York City capital of comedyin my opinion, and I started to
do these private classes with mybrother and my best friend.
(04:51):
I would then see that was reallyhelping me loosen up and it was
allowing me to really beauthentic.
The next day I would come in andI felt like I had a leg up on
everybody, because I was nottrying to get my point across.
Suddenly I was really open toeveryone's opinions more than I
was before.
My ears were wide open and I wasalso stopping myself from
(05:15):
interrupting people.
I stopped saying, hey, it's myturn to talk.
I started to use that yes andmentality.
I started to improve mycommunication.
I started to build off ofpeople's ideas, interject mine
when they made sense, but liftthe people around me up.
Then when it was my turn tospeak I was able to think of the
(05:35):
context of the room and what wassaid.
Suddenly the words that I wassaying had a lot more power
because they were a collectivethought in a way,'cause I was
taking all the other thingspeople were saying and then
interjecting my own opinions andbuilding off things.
So it was that moment where itwas like, hey, you don't have to
be this invention of a personthat you've made up.
(05:59):
You can really be yourself.
You can be that five to ninepersonality during your nine to
five.
Ed Drozda (06:06):
Do you suppose your boss was excited or perhaps
surprised by the person that heunleashed?
Kevin Hubschmann (06:13):
You know what, I don't think he knew the guy
before so much.
He really just got a taste ofit, and I think that's what
makes a really great manager.
He saw where he could make animpact right away.
I think that really wassomething I'm very grateful to
him, and that's the differencebetween a manager that's on your
case about hitting quota and amanager that's about unleashing
(06:35):
your potential.
I think he wasn't surprisedbecause he didn't let that other
piece of me linger too much,'cause he said I already know
the version I like and I knowthe version that everyone else
likes, and it's about time youstart to like that version too.
Ed Drozda (06:50):
Powerful words coming from a manager to literally let
their own ego go, to allow asubordinate in this case, to
thrive.
Kevin Hubschmann (07:00):
Yeah, I think that's a manager's job, to feel
out the best way that they cansupport the individual, with the
ultimate goal of reaching quotaas a team.
Especially when it comes tosales.
Sales is a world of individualcontributors that are working
together on a team.
It's like the Ryder Cup;everyone's playing for team USA,
(07:22):
so to speak.
All these individuals, andthey're individual golfers used
to playing independently nowhave to come together, band
together, and they have toinclude teamwork.
I think that's a reallydifficult thing for a manager.
How do you balance getting themost out of your individual
contributor while also having aculture that you're setting as a
manager for your whole group?
How do you make sure that you'reworking on that small thing with
(07:44):
the big thing in mind?
Like you said, it takes a lotfor a manager to take his ego
down, and take the money out ofit for a minute, and say how do
I unleash this person,'causethat's ultimately gonna get me
to my goal, which is reachingsales goals and revenue targets
and reaching our team's fullpotential.
Ed Drozda (08:04):
And a manager such as this also realizes that he or
she may be unleashing newpossibilities that will no
longer keep you in the fold.
Kevin Hubschmann (08:17):
Absolutely.
For better or for worse thatallowed me to stop having such
tunnel vision on the person thatI was trying to become, which
was maybe a manager of sales ora VP of sales, or just staying
in the sales world.
I think it unlocked a curiosityin me that I've always had; it
allowed me to say well that'swho I am.
(08:39):
That's the Hubschmann that I am,this person that is boundlessly
curious.
So let me be curious and thatreally helped me too because in
sales, that allowed me to bemore consultative in my
approach.
I started to be very curiousabout, hey, what are your
problems?
Instead of pitching my solutionsI was listening so much harder
(09:00):
and so much more consciously andsaying, I'm not gonna give my
pitch until I know it's relevantto you.
And then I'm either going to sayI actually think something else
is better for you or this is thething that you care about.
I'm gonna skip slides onethrough six and let's just focus
on seven because this is whatyou talked about,'cause I
(09:22):
listened the whole time, and I'mnot gonna distract you with the
out of the box presentation.
I'm making this all about you.
That got me interested in thedetails outside of just closing
the sale.
Like, how is this impacting yourorganization?
What's your infrastructure likeat your business and how does
that work and how does marketingwork and how do systems
(09:44):
integrations work?
Suddenly, I didn't just careabout closing the deal.
I cared about making a reallygreat holistic solution and
taking that from that let'sclose the deal to let's figure
out something that's gonna bebest for you so you have more
trust in me.
Ultimately that actually led tomore money.
It led to them saying, well, wewere thinking about one seat,
(10:07):
but the way you just said it,maybe we need five, maybe we
need 10.
Maybe we need a global license.
What does that look like?
I think that's really what thatdid.
I think it really opened up mythird eye of curiosity and said
let's start diving deeper intothe real problems here.
Ed Drozda (10:23):
Curiosity is certainly the pathway to
possibility, there's no questionabout that.
I think it's pretty obvious thatfor yourself, you were satisfied
with this newfound awareness.
What was your take on yourclient's level of satisfaction
with the person that you were,they may not have seen the
change, but what was theirimpression about this person?
Kevin Hubschmann (10:46):
I think it resulted in a lot more trust,
ultimately.
I think they could suddenly seethat I was genuinely interested
in solving their problems, whichultimately makes them look good
and makes them interested inspeeding things along, having
the right conversations,bringing in the right people.
(11:07):
You know, I wasn't just pitchinga product, I was trying to make
them look awesome at work.
That's really what I wanted todo.
That was my ultimate goal; howcan I ask the right questions,
listen to their problems andprescribe a solution that's not
just me pitching a productbecause they know I'm a
salesperson.
They know I'm gonna getcommission off of this, and you
(11:27):
can smell that a mile away.
So, when I put that airfreshener on my sale, it
suddenly took a different turn.
I'm still friendly with withpeople that I sold six, seven
years ago.
We have nothing to sell eachother, but that trust was built
and that was the foundation ofour relationship.
Ed Drozda (11:45):
As a business coach trust is absolutely a
requirement.
I also believe that in sales,the quota can move people to be
more mindful of the quantity ofthe work they perform versus the
quality.
I don't mean this as a negativetowards salespeople.
I think that in many cases thecompelling force behind their
(12:05):
work makes it difficult to focuson things like trust.
Kevin Hubschmann (12:11):
Absolutely.
You can't minimize the fact thathaving a quota over your head is
scary and oftentimes distractingto your sales pitch.
That's why increasing that trustand it'll ultimately increase
your deal size and deal volumeand also get the crap out of
your pipeline like the thingsthat don't fit and that you're
(12:32):
chasing.
I genuinely believe that whenyou go forward with these tools,
trying to build trust, you doseparate yourself amongst your
competitors as well.
You are being that first line ofdefense.
You're giving that firstimpression and that could really
accelerate a deal.
Whereas if you are just giving apitch, you're no different than
(12:57):
a personalized email, or aproposal that just has numbers,
cost savings, and things likethat.
So I think that's also whatseparates people and makes their
pipeline legitimate.
It doesn't just make it like,what's gonna close?
Well, I sent them the pricingand let's see how it goes, and
whatever.
I think that also increases yourclose rate, and I think it can
(13:17):
ultimately make that quota alittle less intimidating.
Ed Drozda (13:21):
I appreciate what you're saying.
Now we know you went from SaaSto LaaS.
I hope I'm not messing it up bysaying SaaS to LaaS but, oh
that's it.
You nailed it.
So you went from SaaS to LaaS.
We know how it began, the seedsthat were planted by your boss,
or added on to stuff that you'dalready fertilized before that.
So in the current environment,are you working with salespeople
(13:44):
largely, or people in industryat large?
What is your focus today?
Kevin Hubschmann (13:52):
It's certainly a mixed bag.
I think different organizationshave different goals and
different problems.
I'll break down our business abit more.
There's our virtual corporatecomedy experiences, which are
really fun and hilarious.
Moments where people are likewe've had a rough quarter, we've
(14:12):
had a rough month, or we'veworked our tails off.
We really wanna get in a roomwith each other, stop thinking
about work, and we want to havefun.
We just wanna laugh.
We take their work lingo, theirmemes, their culture, and we
create comedy shows about it.
So that can be a sales team justwent through a crazy quarter.
That can be an accounting teamthat just went through an insane
(14:35):
busy period.
That can be a product team thatjust launched something, like a
celebration moment.
We also have in-personexperiences that fill that same
celebration need.
But when it comes to somethingthat has really become a staple
of our business it's calledlaughing and development.
These are very much tailored toyour business goals.
(14:56):
Laughing and development isapplied improv, basically skills
that you learn doing improv.
Skills that you learn doingstandup, skills that comedians
have honed.
That is thinking on your feet,communication, listening, active
listening, taking risks, havinga supportive environment.
There's boundless amountsdifferent things you can get
(15:17):
from it.
That's when we take an intakeform from people and we say,
what are you actually interestedin getting out of this?
And out of like a hundredexercises we can do we're gonna
dial it into the eight or 10that's gonna fit for your group.
For salespeople it's perfectbecause that's where my
specialty can come into place.
I've been in your shoes.
I know what that's about, andit's really effective for
(15:40):
salespeople because there'sactual data out there that shows
that these types of workshopsincrease sales conversions.
When Salesforce implementedapplied improv workshops their
teams saw a 36% increase insales conversions.
That's a serious number that youcan look at and go, okay, for
(16:03):
our offsite or our saleskickoff, whatever it might be,
this is going to allow us toactually have tools that we can
bring back to our clients andbring back to our sales cycle
and our process.
That's where we've seen it bevery successful in the sales
world, but applied Improv is anexcellent tool for brainstorming
too.
(16:23):
So it's really good formarketing teams, product teams,
and engineering teams.
Improv makes you focus ondivergent thinking.
We live in a world now with AIthat is based on convergent
thinking, like hey give me thisanswer to this problem, and
that's the answer.
Whereas we're human, and we needto work that divergent muscle in
(16:45):
our brain and come up with 10bad ideas so we'll have one good
idea.
Let the floodgates open up.
That's really all these appliedimprov experiences are doing for
boosting creativity and teamcollaboration.
It's basically how do we createa really supportive environment
so there's no bad answers, nobad ideas.
(17:06):
And people say that all thetime.
No bad ideas, let's throw itout.
But what kind of environment areyou actually creating so someone
can fall flat on their face andget supported in the same way
that if they hit a home run.
That is what these exercisesare; to create that environment
so teams can take that andlaunch it into their day-to-day
(17:26):
lives in the way that theycommunicate as a team.
Ed Drozda (17:29):
I think it's really important to make the
distinction between appliedimprov and comedy.
And although they do tend to getconflated, right?
The way that you're describingapplied improv is very much akin
to a process called designthinking that we use in business
(17:51):
school.
I think it's fascinating the waythat you've taken that concept
and applied it like this.
I've never looked at it fromthis angle before, but I can
assure you it will inform me thenext time I'm engaged in the
design thinking process.
Kevin Hubschmann (18:06):
I think there is this common misconception.
That's why we actually changedit to laughing and development
instead of calling it improv.
We didn't invent this process.
This has been going on foryears.
We just decided that the wordwas maybe a bit too harsh, but
also maybe a bit too conflatedwith comedy.
And when people think aboutimprov they think about Whose
(18:26):
Line Is It Anyways, theseabsolute comedic geniuses that
are making us laugh.
Every time I'm like, hey let'sdo improv they're like, well I'm
not very funny.
And that's the last thing wewant you to do.
Improv comedy is not aboutcoming up with the best
one-liner.
It's not about coming up withthe funniest joke.
It's about listening to yourpartner, building off of that
(18:48):
idea, making your partner lookgreat.
And if you make your partnerlook great, it makes the scene
look great.
It makes the show fantastic.
Laughter is the outcome thathappens when you follow these
rules.
Just like in a business setting,sales can be an outcome, idea
generation, innovation can be anoutcome.
When you follow these rules ofsupport and having each other's
(19:11):
backs, collaboration, andenhancing that communication,
that's what applied improv isall about.
It's way different than beingperformative; it's not
performative really in any way.
Ed Drozda (19:24):
So when you are talking to a prospective client,
when you're in that discussionphase, what sorts of questions
are being posed to you?
Kevin Hubschmann (19:35):
I'll focus on laughing and development,
applied improv side of things,because usually on the virtual
comedy side the biggest questionthey ask is, is this gonna be
clean and appropriate?
That's like their biggestconcern, and obviously that is
what our business does.
Ed Drozda (19:48):
But the other side is more, I don't wanna say
theoretical, it's more creative.
Kevin Hubschmann (19:54):
Yeah, on that side of things the biggest
question that we get is hey,what happens if no one's into
this?
What happens if we have somepeople that are really
introverted and really shy?
Do you think that they're gonnabe good?
It's not a matter of if they'regoing to be good, it's how we've
set up these workshops.
It's not like we're bringingfive people on stage and action.
(20:15):
We're dipping your toes in bydoing a lot of warmup exercises
that are going to get youcomfortable with everyone around
you creating that supportiveenvironment.
And we're slowly titrating themup on the dose of improv and
that dose of creativity,innovation, and team
collaboration, and making youfeel comfortable to be your
(20:36):
true, authentic self.
My favorite moment that I've haddoing these was an event with
the Rutgers Business Schoolalumni.
And you know, same question cameup.
There's gonna be people thataren't interested in doing it.
That happened; there were peoplethat sat down and that
eventually got up.
They were waiting to see what itwould be like, but someone came
up to us at the end of the eventand said I really want to thank
(20:59):
you for doing this event.
I was very nervous.
It was a networking event, analumni networking event.
I don't even like alumninetworking.
It stresses me out, and I'm sortof an extroverted person.
It's very unnatural to me.
She was saying to me I was inthe bathroom, panicking, really
concerned.
I don't know what to do in thissetting, having drinks and
(21:21):
talking to people or networking.
What do you do for work?
What is all this stuff?
That was her fear.
But when we started to do improvshe got so into it.
Arguably the most introvertedperson in the room that was so
concerned about the normalsocialization that happens at
networking event, and then wedid one of these applied improv
(21:43):
sessions, these laughing anddevelopment sessions, and it
allowed her to feel supportivein the group and allowed her to
say I can be my true, authenticself.
She said it was the first timeshe felt able to connect with
people in over two years and itwas right out of the pandemic.
It's stuff like that, thatreally pushes me to continue to
(22:05):
spread this offering around.
Even the most introvertedpeople, they love it because
you're giving them theopportunity to slowly dip your
toes, and they realize that theyjust need a supportive
environment to becomeextroverted.
That's the layer that's missing.
It was an awesome experience andeveryone got a ton out of it,
(22:27):
and she said she came away withfive or six business cards that
she ultimately wouldn't have.
I related so much to that.
People say hey, you're acomedian.
You go on stage all the time.
How could you relate to that?
It's because networking can beso unnatural and it can be like
I hope what I have to give youis what you're looking for, and
that this exchange of goods isgonna be equitable.
(22:50):
But with improv and impliedimprov, titles don't exist.
What you do doesn't exist.
You're doing a super silly thingand asking the person in front
of you to do the same sillything.
And if they don't, they'reactually throwing it all off, so
there is this exchange ofvulnerability and silliness, and
it allows people to make thisall full circle.
(23:11):
I don't need to be this stiffnine to five person.
I can bring my five to ninepersonality out.
I don't have to be so salesmanand I can be a bit more
Hubschmann, or whatever yourlast name is.
Ed Drozda (23:22):
So my boss would've said to me I should be more
Drozda.
Okay.
All right.
I wish I was in a position totake advantage of one of your
programs because I can see whereit'd be beneficial.
To that point, what do you seeas the three chief takeaways
that your clients get out of anengaging process.
Kevin Hubschmann (23:44):
It depends because improv can go a ton of
different ways.
I mentioned there's hundreds ofexercises that can be tweaked
and altered.
It starts off with what are youlooking to get out of this and
we're gonna be able to deliverthat.
But high level, what people getfirst is support.
A supportive environment goes areally long way.
And what are you doing in yourwork culture to make risk taking
(24:08):
normalized, for ideas to bethrown out and accepted?
What are you doing to createthat very supportive culture?
The second thing is activelistening.
Active listening allows you tosuppress your urge.
I don't know, I have this urgeconstantly and I always have to
(24:30):
suppress it.
Think back to this phrase Iheard in improv, which said"F"
your good idea.
That was something you would betaught.
It would say, you have an idea?
Well, push it down and listen toeveryone else first, because
this is a team thing.
That has to do with salesenvironments, clients, and
things like that.
Are you actually activelylistening to them?
(24:52):
Are we actively listening to ourteammates, to our clients, to
our prospects?
That's a really huge thing.
The third thing is communicationand collaboration.
The wording that you use ishuge.
Yes-and, is the most popularthing that people know about
improv, but what they might notknow is no-but, or no-or, or
(25:15):
yes-or.
Those are words that stop ideageneration and collaboration.
The words that you use have areally big impact on how to
continue to have ideas movingforward.
There's a great exercise that wedo that says hey, we're going to
a picnic.
This is something that yourlisteners can do.
(25:36):
Hey, we're going to a picnic andbringing some things, and now
everyone's gonna say whatthey're bringing and you have to
say after they say it like, I'mbringing a blanket.
You have to say no-but I'mbringing this and then we'll do
it again and you say yes, or I'mbringing this.
Then you do it a third time andyou say yes-and, and suddenly
(25:57):
it's a party.
Suddenly people are stoked to goto this picnic.
It sounds like the most amazingthing.
It doesn't sound like we'rehaving 15 individual picnics.
We're having one awesome picnicsoup, and this is gonna be a
really good time.
Ed Drozda (26:12):
Thank you so much.
I can envision this thing.
Kevin, our time has come to anend.
Before we say goodbye, is thereanything you'd like to leave us
with?
Kevin Hubschmann (26:26):
I think what you said in the beginning, never
underestimate the power of alaugh.
Never underestimate levity,never underestimate the ability
to work with people in thatenvironment.
I have found over the years ofworking with comedians that
their work ethic and the rulesthat they live by in terms of
how they approach their craftcan and should be emulated by
(26:49):
everybody in the business world.
That can be in the form ofcuriosity, in the form of
deadlines, in the form ofworking hard to achieve what
you're passionate about.
Ed Drozda (27:01):
Folks, once again my guest today Kevin Hubschmann is
the founder of Laugh Events.
He's a comedian, an improv guy,a guy who went from SaaS to
LaaS.
Kevin helps business people tofind an enriching opportunity
that's right in front of all ofus, but I venture that few of us
(27:21):
probably appreciate it.
It's a lot more than laughter.
It really is important, and Ihope you listen carefully to the
things that he brought to ustoday.
Kevin, thank you so much forbeing with us.
Kevin Hubschmann (27:33):
Thanks, Ed.
It was a lot of fun.
Ed Drozda (27:35):
Thank you.
Folks this is Ed Drozda, TheSmall Business Doctor and here
at The Water Trough, I wannawish you both a healthy business
and a business full of laughter.
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