September 6, 2024 • 51 mins
In this episode of The Wayfinder Show, Luis Hernandez interviews Charles Shapiro, a seasoned runner and coach, about his lifelong passion for running and coaching. Charles shares insights into the importance of community, sustainable training, and injury prevention, especially for aging runners. He also discusses his coaching philosophy, emphasizing specific strength training, dynamic movements, and effective recovery techniques. The conversation explores the mental challenges of aging athletes, the significance of maintaining running enjoyment, and practical tips for new runners. Listeners are encouraged to visit Charles’s platform, Runners Hotline, for personalized coaching and resources.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
If you want long term success inanything, if you don't have a
sense of community, you're goingto get burned out because you
need to have something to goback to.
They don't care if you're thetop salesperson, they don't care
if you qualified for the ballAustin marathon.
They don't care.
All they care about is yourunning.
People are really interesting.
(00:20):
Sometimes you'll see people thattalk about the running elitist
that are looked down on theslower runners.
And I keep thinking, where arethese people?
Cause I just think it's so coolrunning has this wide range of
runners from really good tobeginners and it's all cool and
they all love and respect eachother and it's a great community
(00:41):
that they built.
Welcome to the Wayfinder showwith Louie Hernandez, where
guests discuss the why and howof making changes that led them
down a more authentic path orallow them to level up in some
(01:02):
area of their life.
Our goal is to dig deep andprovide not only knowledge, but
actionable advice to help youget from where you are to where
you want to be.
Come join us and find the way toyour dream life.
(01:25):
All right, welcome back to thewayfinder show today We're here
to talk about my favoritesubject in the world running we
have a really special guest withus today His name is charles
shapiro and charles has been arunner all his life In his
youth.
He was a successful crosscountry runner for both his high
school and University ofMaryland.
While he kept running all of hisadult life, he went into the
(01:48):
business world and uponretirement, started coaching
cross country and track at HolyFamily High School in
Broomfield, Colorado, where forthe first time in the school's
history, both the boys and girlsteams won their regional
championships two years in arow.
And they had the best combinedfinish in the state
championships during those twoyears.
(02:10):
After that he left to coach withRise Running, a team of junior,
open, masters, and eliteathletes in Boulder, Colorado.
Now he's launched the RunnersHotline to expand his reach to
runners that are committed tocrushing their running goals,
but haven't found a programthat's worked for them yet.
I'm proud to say I'm workingwith Charles.
We started working togetherabout three weeks ago, and I'm
(02:33):
confident that he's going tohelp me surpass my plateaus, in
running.
I'm excited to have thisconversation with him about his
running philosophies and sharethat with you all.
So Charles, welcome to theWayfinder show.
Good morning, Louis.
It's great to be here.
I'm excited to talk to you.
Yeah.
Likewise.
We get to talk, at differentcapacities every once in a
(02:53):
while, but it's good to now Igot you in my domain.
So this is going to be fun.
I got to unleash some punishmenton you after all the things you
put on me with all thoseworkouts.
before we get started, can youshare a little bit about your
running journey you're obviouslya very passionate runner and
just like to explore more wherethat comes from.
I've always, loved sports andathletics.
(03:16):
And when I was a kid, I playedbaseball.
I played football.
I played basketball, but I wasalways short and wasn't a good
sprinter.
And I was always average in allthose things.
But when I played football, Iwas really good at laps.
I'd beat everybody at laps.
And so when track came along,it's okay, maybe I can be good
at that.
And when I found out I waspretty good at running, That's
(03:39):
what I, I grabbed on to my highschool had a great tradition of
distance running and, some ofthe school records super
impressive, even by today'sstandards.
I started running in highschool.
I did really well.
I was fourth in the state in thetwo mile back when they did
things called the mile or thetwo mile.
(04:00):
I started at Boston university.
I ran a year at Bostonuniversity where.
That was the great, Rosie Ruizyears of people that remember
the year someone snuck in at theend of the Boston Marathon.
I was working with Bill Rogersrunning center that day.
I have run a two 33 marathon inmy, red shirt year.
So the year that I couldn't racefor Maryland, what was that
(04:20):
training?
I was doing a bunch of training.
I decided to jump into amarathon and, that's ended up
being my fastest marathon.
once I started into the businessworld, there really wasn't a
structure.
And a community to keep me,going, today I think the
structure is important, but thecommunity, and this is what all
over the country, they do reallywell.
And here in Colorado justbeautiful, providing a sense of
(04:44):
community.
about, 15 years ago, I decidedto get back into running because
I had been running, but justinconsistently.
And, so since then I've run a,over, I'm no Louie Hernandez.
I read 3 20 at the Marine CorpsMarathon in 2014, about 10 years
ago.
I've been running and dealingwith injuries.
(05:05):
this has been, one of thereasons why I really gotten into
the coaching.
Is because I've been dealingwith injuries all the time.
Every time I get into goodshape, something would happen.
The, calf would strain and Icouldn't run where the hamstring
would go.
I'd be running on all of asudden there's a pull and, I'm
trying to figure out what isgoing on working with rise
running and Rick Rojas, who'sthe head coach, his daughter
(05:29):
Nell is a sub two 25 marathonerand work with that group.
I've really sharpened mycoaching skills, I've also
developed specific thoughts onhow to stay healthy through this
process, especially as you get alittle bit older.
And when you start disobeyingthe basic rules of running, you
start getting injured.
(05:49):
You can't ignore the fact thatyou have to stay strong and do
things the right way.
You can't overdo it.
You've got to be very careful.
Today I'm in training.
my friend Louie Hernandez isrunning at the same time.
So I'm going to be talking tohim about riding over together.
after that, I have a minorsurgery, but the goal is if I
can keep myself healthy for ayear, that's the goal I'm going
(06:11):
to be running another marathonin December of 2025.
I think I've told you this, the,California International
Marathon in Sacramento.
Oh, yeah.
in the meantime, I want to,train and get into great shape
and help others, achieve at thesame time.
That's the fun part of it forme.
you and I have known each otherfor like 10 years now maybe even
more we ran together in anotherclub, i'd always try to hang on
(06:34):
to you and pick your brainbecause it was pretty clear
early on You had a lot ofrunning knowledge I remember a
5k race in arvada And you wereout ahead of me I'm like, I got
to catch him.
I couldn't, but it's like, Oh,that guy's pretty good.
That's pretty good.
I want to catch him.
and that's the first memory Ihave of you was in that race.
And afterwards, I think wetalked for a few minutes, That's
(06:56):
funny.
I forgot about that.
Yeah.
that's right.
but you know what always stoodout to me was your passion for
running.
We also are both, real estatebrokers, right?
You've been a very successfulcommercial broker and still are
in the Denver metro area.
we'd get together and talk aboutthat, but ultimately, we always
come back to running.
You just have such a passion forit.
(07:16):
So I'm really happy that you gotinto, coaching, here now,
because it's clear to me that'swhere your passion is.
at our age, I'm 62.
You're a little bit younger, butwe're saying, okay.
What's going to make our hearthappy?
Where are we happiest?
I know where I'm happiest.
I'm happiest when I'm out therewith a bunch of other runners,
(07:37):
running with them, leading themin workouts.
I'm energized.
I'm happy.
They feel that energy, which isreally important in a coaching
relationship.
I wish we could do that in ourentire lives.
Maybe we can, but we just don'trealize that when we're younger,
that we can follow our passions.
That's right.
Yeah.
So talk to me a little bit aboutthe, you're running
(08:00):
philosophies.
You mentioned you, youdefinitely are different.
I'll share my experience in abit, but I'm curious to know
What makes you different fromother running coaches?
There's several things.
Listen, there's so many goodrunning coaches that know the
basics of building an aerobicengine and getting you at the
starting line.
(08:21):
But here's the challenge,especially as you get older,
we're told that we have to liftweights and get stronger and we
do as human beings.
So don't think that I'm notsaying don't do squats, don't do
deadlifts, don't do benchpresses, they're critically
important as we get older thatwe maintain that muscle mass.
(08:42):
But as a runner, I think that'sabsolutely worthless.
And I think that as a runner,stretching is absolutely
worthless.
There is no research thatindicates that any stretching
makes you more injury resistant.
about eight or nine months ago,I tripped on something online
and it made sense.
I talked to a guy from Australiait's called the sling method.
(09:04):
I recommend people go to thesling method.
Because his Strengtheningexercises are so running
oriented think about what'shappening when you run, it's a
scissors action.
Your legs are going this way andthat way.
And it's coming from the hipswhere it's back and forth.
I heard one coach say, Thatrunning is a jumping exercise.
(09:26):
Maybe on the sprinting side,there's some jumping in it, but
it is using your hips pushingthe foot forward and pulling
back.
And so the force is forward andback.
how do you train Those musclesto work correctly so that you
don't get injured if they'velearned how to work correctly
without tearing muscles fromstretching or what have you,
(09:50):
you're going to be moreaffected.
Now that's the first side of it.
The second.
Is and I was telling you earlierthat I have a video for you And
a lot of us know this but don'tdo it is doing self myofascial
release using the foam rollerlacrosse ball baseball or tennis
ball to find those areas thatare painful I was having about
five or six months ago and thisis going on for years an
(10:12):
inability to do a lunge so myLeft foot is forward.
I'm Going down with my rightknee and I couldn't do it
because my left knee wouldcollapse.
And then I just did somemyofascial release on the quad
right near the knee where I wason my stomach and I put a ball
right on it.
And within three days, Thathasn't happened.
(10:36):
And so I'm going, wow, what ifyou did this with glutes?
We don't think that there'sreally issue with the glutes But
then if you put up a ball andyou sit on and it's painful
That's sending you a messagethat you've got to work some
things out So I spend about 20minutes a day I don't want to do
too much because I always thinkthat if you overload your brain,
it's just too much.
(10:56):
And you say, this is more painthan it's emotional pain, but
you've got to do these exercisesand you've got to do them.
So that you're searching and notbe afraid of the fact that It
does hurt.
You stick a ball into your sideof your hip and that can be
really painful, but guess what?
It shouldn't be really painful.
(11:17):
And it's just showing.
that we're either weak or wehave some deficiencies and the
exercises really are workingthose specific running muscles
and specific running muscleways.
It's just critically important.
So as a matter of fact, I'mgoing to be putting out a
Facebook message.
what are the biggest lies you'retold, as a runner, you have to
(11:38):
strength train while you do, butnot the way they're telling you
stretching.
I do some, dynamic stretches.
I do some leg swings, and allthat and some lunges.
And I do some dynamic warmups,skipping and things like that
when I'm getting ready for hardworkouts.
But as a regular part of my daynow, so that's where I think I
(12:00):
get to be a little bitdifferent.
Also, I'm a big proponent ofsprinting and we've had this
discussion, in the base phase oftraining, we're thinking, okay,
I'm going to build this aerobicbase.
I'm going to just run long andslow I'm a big believer in long
and slow, but I'm also a bigbeliever in the base phase of
building speed and doing hillsprints.
(12:22):
So we've talked about doing.
Eight second hill sprint.
So if you're a beginner at this,you might start with eight
repetitions of eight second hillsprints as hard as you can.
And so it's not really hardafter eight cents, you're
breathing a little hard and youjog down the hill.
then you take a full five minutejogging rest in between.
the reason why you do the fiveminutes is that.
(12:45):
Biochemically, you haven'trecovered after 90 seconds, your
lactate is still, pushed up.
what we really want to do is getcompletely recovered, and then
do another one.
if you add one per week, andyou're doing eight to 10, the
workout might be a mild warm upeight seconds up the hill, five
minute jog coming back and doingeight seconds again, and just
(13:06):
doing that jog back and forth,translate.
that to the flat, once you'vebuilt up that speed.
if your speed is a little bitfaster and your normal pace is
about the same, you have, what'scalled a speed reserve.
That's the difference betweenthe pace that you run.
And the fastest that you canrun.
Plus the other thing is, yourfast twitch muscle fibers, the
(13:28):
type two muscle fibers are usedwhen you're running a marathon.
what they've seen is that yourslow twitch fibers will fatigue.
And then your fast twitchfibers.
We'll be working for 8, 10, 15seconds and then come back out.
They're actually an importantpart of the process.
So train them easily in the basephase, because the cool thing
(13:49):
about training is once you'vedeveloped that speed, and once
we get past the base phase,You're going to be doing hill
sprints.
You'll be doing like six hillsprints once every 10 days or
something like that.
At the end of a workout, we'llthrow it in because it's easier
to maintain a skill set than itis to maintain it.
So once we've developed that,once you've developed being
(14:12):
really good in doing, tempointervals or tempo runs, you
don't have to do it quite asoften.
Because it's developed, youstill do it, but you might do it
once or twice every two weeks.
So I guess the philosophy isthat once you've added something
to a running program, you neverget rid of it.
You just, don't have to do itquite as much.
(14:33):
And as you gear towards a keyrace, where you want to break
three hours for the marathon.
in that last six weeks, we'refocusing like a laser on, sub
three hour paces a lot.
But are we going to be doingother things?
Absolutely.
you don't leave things behind.
You're just going to be doingmore marathon type pace, to get,
(14:54):
your body really used to thelonger distance and the specific
pace.
that's one of the things Inoticed right away with you.
I think we've only been at itthree weeks and we talked early
on, you had a great intakeprocess, by the way, your
questionnaire was very thorough.
And then our first meeting, Iwent in there thinking, you're a
good friend, so I really want tohelp you.
(15:15):
And that's why I'm doing this.
And I came out of there mindblown, you looked at my recent
times and everything, you couldtell where my deficiencies were
right away and you could tellwhat I needed to work on.
And it gave me hope that.
I couldn't exceed, especially atthe shorter distances goals.
I really wasn't even thinking Icould do anymore, so it's pretty
neat.
I noticed that we do a lot ofshort, fast work, right?
(15:39):
Almost in every run you havingme do some strides.
And for those who don't knowstrides are just like 20 second
sprints we're doing more, short.
Hill intervals and such.
I'm enjoying it.
It's fun to go fast for a while.
I think, I was a pretty fastrunner in short distances as a
kid, I ran to catch the busreally fast, that kind of thing.
(16:00):
But I could never run a mile.
I didn't have long, slow twitchspeed and I developed it over
time by running longer andslower.
And that became my philosophyand that slower got faster.
Over time, but it was stillright.
And so it definitely helped.
But now I think you're taking adifferent approach with me that
I can see already theimprovements in just three
(16:21):
weeks.
Cause I think that fast Twitchmuscle develops a little faster.
Absolutely.
And what's going to be reallyfun is, as what I do is I take.
Whatever race you've done andsay, okay, here is what your
workouts are going to be basedon.
The workouts are going to bebased on the races you've done.
And you might run them a littlefaster and say, Hey, Charles,
(16:41):
this feels pretty easy.
That's sort of state in therealm of those paces.
Yeah.
Because then you're going to runa half marathon and you're gonna
say, okay, I did better in thisand then we'll change the pacing
around again.
But it's really based on whereyou're at.
I did A time trial for, a mile,in September and time trial for
(17:01):
everyone is a simulated race.
It's not 100%, but it's prettyclose.
And I ran it in 6 47.
So I'm 62 years old, and I'mrunning that mile and someone
took a picture of me and I hadThe worst, most painful look I
have ever seen on my face.
It was just pure agony because Iremembered the last time I did a
(17:24):
mild time trial, I was incollege.
Yeah.
That was back then, wasn't it?
Yeah.
it was interesting because evenwhen I was running with better
runners, in my twenties, it wasreally set.
You did long intervals onFriday.
On Tuesday, you did shortintervals.
You did a long run.
You there wasn't really,everyone really good shape
(17:46):
because they did this sort ofbasic short intervals, long
intervals.
And then, and then a long run,you don't see that a lot with
today's groups where, the focusis really on the long run.
Back in the day, the focuswasn't really on the long way.
You did it, Sunday mornings, yougo out and do your long runs,
but, now it's such a big thingand they've made it that it's
(18:07):
the most important run of theweek.
It can be, but really, if you'renot doing much running in the
middle of the week, and then youdo this long run on the weekend,
You need to run more during theweek.
you need to have more variety inyour program i'm really excited
and happy that you're Findingfun and running a little bit
faster and doing things a littlebit different I feel the same
(18:28):
way in my training When i'mdoing different stuff at
different speeds You're gonnahave workouts where you're doing
different speeds in the middleof the workout.
You might do 800 meters at onepace then take two minutes rest
and then do 100 meters prettyfast And rest I like to train
different energy systems in thesame workout.
I like to also get the feelingof running different speeds
(18:50):
because we get into a rhythm andI want to get you out of that.
I want it so that I know I canspeed up from here.
I'm running a certain pace, butI can speed up if I want to,
because it's usually mentallyand physically really hard to
change that pace in the middleof a race.
Yeah, one of the things yousaid, that stuck with me during
that intake meeting was youlooked at my recent times and
you said, oh, great.
(19:11):
there's a misalignment herebetween what I'm running a
marathon at and what I'm runninga 5k at.
I should be running my 5ks muchfaster.
And the more, That's resonatingas time gone on, I realized,
yeah I've hit a speed plateau, Itrained hard for this past
marathon, and I was really proudof my results I remember having
so much energy at the end that Iactually had more energy than
(19:35):
speed, which I know sounds crazyto people, but it is possible.
Like I hadn't had an experiencelike that in a long time.
it just has made me realize Ineed to start working my speed
again because I did turn my legsover as fast as I could, but I
had the energy, the lungs tohave gone harder if I had
trained my legs for that, that'swhy it's exciting.
(19:55):
You have this great aerobicengine that can do it.
That's the fun part aboutworking with you.
I don't worry about the aerobicengine.
It's working at the higher endof that aerobic engine.
Have you heard of the trainingthat The Norwegian middle
distance runners are doing Ihave heard of it.
Yeah.
We have a guy in our 5am clubthat has been doing that.
you got to be careful on how youimplement that.
(20:16):
This guy Is the best in theworld, but he's working as high
end of his aerobic, training somuch that, he's able to kill it.
And, what will I throw somethinglike that in your training?
Absolutely.
We will talk about it,beforehand I throw in two hard
workouts in one day.
(20:36):
Yes.
But then you'll have four easydays after that.
you do want to get shaken up andI want to go back to what you
were saying about thedifferential and where I always
knew it, but it really was putin front of me when working with
Rick Rojas.
I'll talk to him cause Iconsider him my coaching mentor
and he'll be talking about amarathon runner and he goes,
(20:58):
this guy's doing it all wrong.
And I go, what do you mean?
He goes he wants to get betterat the marathon.
But he really needs to get his10k and half marathon because
his 10k leads him to running a216 marathon.
If he wants to run 211, he'sgoing to have to get his 10k
time down by 40 seconds.
(21:18):
he should be focusing on thatonce he's hit it, then, okay,
let's go back into marathontraining and his daughter.
Now you always see her runningdifferent length races.
She's not stuck just running themarathon.
You'll see her in a 5k and a 10K.
And a five miler and a 10 miler.
And I totally believe thatconfidence that you will get
(21:40):
when you run a, an 1830 or 1840,5k is going to turn you and it's
going to make you go, Whoa.
Yeah, I'm excited.
that's what's going to be fun.
one of the things we do in theprocess is really what are the
key races?
(22:01):
And so this is going to be thefirst time in a while that your
key race isn't a marathon.
We're going to wait till thespring and have you kill it in
Boston, Let's find some racesin, October and November that
you can really peak for.
And then once you have thosetimes, it's going to be like,
okay, I'm ready to go.
(22:21):
And that's, yeah, that's whatmakes this whole journey so much
fun, no matter what age you are,because I'm never going to run a
PR again.
I'm never going to run a two 33marathon.
I'm never going to run under 15minutes for 5k.
I'm never going to run under 30,under 31 minutes for the 10k, I
have my goals and they motivateme and they're exciting.
(22:42):
I just have to stay healthy.
And that is.
The absolute key, what iseveryone doing on a daily basis
to make sure that they're injuryresistant, they can do the
training without all of a suddenbreaking down.
let's talk about that's a goodsegue getting away from that
running philosophy of yours intothe mindset because you have run
at really high levels In youryouth one of the things I've
(23:05):
noticed especially living inBoulder you come across the best
of the best runners and theyhit, that time when they're no
longer the best of the best andthey get depressed and get out
of running And then you wonderif they ever really loved
running or just being reallycompetitive I have a very good
friend who's actually a loyallistener of the show, Josh.
So if you listen this question'sfor you, man.
He was a incredibly talentedrunner, in college, went to sch
(23:28):
had a scholarship, I believe hewas All American, and, and he
now struggles because he can'thit his times that he was
hitting ten years ago.
he's only in his early thirties,but, you can tell he's a very
passionate runner, like clearlyrunning is, but he get beats
himself up over that.
How did you deal with that?
Because you were at the samelevel at one point, and here you
(23:49):
are, and you've alwaysmaintained that passion and
still do.
How did you deal with that?
I didn't actually.
I was back and forth now in my40s I can Empathize with them.
I think there's several thingsthough Number one is the sense
of community and the sense ofloving running for just the sake
of loving running.
Louie you don't have a 5 a.
(24:10):
m.
Club just because you want tobreak three hours in the
marathon you have because youlove it and you meet new people
and that energizes you.
So you have to have a biggerwhy.
The other thing is that someonein their mid thirties, if I was
coaching them, what I would sayto Josh is number one, you've
got to be kind to yourself andyou've got to be patient.
(24:33):
Let's just train for a year andsee where that takes you being
consistent and doing the rightthings.
And what will happen is he willstart feeling it again.
And it might take a year, two orthree to get back because he's
still in his early 30s.
He can still get back to areally great level, but it's not
as easy as when you're in your20s.
(24:54):
Mark Coogan, who coaches, theNew Balance women out of,
Boston, has, I think, threewomen running in Paris.
Ellie St.
Hilaire is probably the best1500 meter runner in the
country.
I ran with him back in the day,and he was a pretty good college
runner.
He got much better afterwards.
That was the cool thing.
he was able to keep his foot inthe sport.
(25:16):
But, you've got to findwhatever, gives you passion, but
I'm going to go back tocommunity.
I'm all over the place here,you've got to have a sense of
community because if you don'thave the sense of community into
something bigger to run with orrun for, that becomes a
challenge.
And then, Josh, I'd have himrunning, I'd have him doing the
strength stuff.
I'd have him sprinting more,getting fast and then getting in
(25:36):
his mind that he can do it.
all of a sudden he goes outthere and runs a 5k in 16
minutes.
And I know that he ran it, twominutes faster, but he's I'm
getting there.
So that's what I would tell him.
Find your passion, just go to doit because you love it.
you still have time to run somereally good times.
It's not like those of us thatare fifties or sixties where we
(25:58):
have to do it, knowing thatwe're not going to hit, personal
best times ever again.
I don't really care about thosetimes.
That's a different life for me.
I have no idea how fast I canrun a marathon.
The goal for the half marathonis to break four hours based on
my training, I'm going to berunning a race.
(26:19):
next Saturday, four hours in ahalf marathon.
You can assume two hours in ahalf marathon.
Excellent.
you develop the goals as you goalong and you got to get excited
about them.
I know I can achieve those goalstoo.
that's what I tell Josh, findthe love, get back into it,
train smart, get someone totrain with, or find a good coach
and go from there.
(26:39):
I think it's easier on us whoget into running during our
midlife I started in my midthirties, right?
for a while, almost every racewas a PR, which was awesome.
now I've plateaued.
So recently I got lucky that Ifinally had another PR, but it
took six years, I can see wherethe challenge comes.
Thanks.
When you've hit this epitome youcan't compare yourself to that I
(27:00):
now look In my community, whichwe've been a member of the
revolution running community thepeople I look up to the most Are
the runners in their 60s and 70swho are incredibly talented,
there are people I cannot hangwith And I just admire what they
do that's where I want to be.
Running well into, my olderyears, not so much, hitting
certain PRs or any of that.
(27:21):
you're right.
The community is it.
I look forward every morning, 5a.
m.
to running with my friends andlearning from them about life
and having discussions that helpmake us better friends, business
people, better Parents betterhusbands or wives, that
community is what's so importantThere's two writers that
(27:42):
whatever they put out, I readimmediately Steve Magnus,
because he's a great runningcoach who's wrote both personal
development books and thescience of running.
If you're going to get onerunning book, it's high level,
but the science of running, ifyou want to learn from a very
sophisticated viewpoint, thescience of running and Brad
Stolberg, and they talk a lot.
(28:03):
About community.
They talk about, the fact that,if you want long term success at
anything, if you don't have asense of community, you're going
to get burned out because youneed to have something to go
back to They don't care ifyou're the top salesperson, they
don't care if you qualify forthe Boston marathon.
They don't care.
(28:23):
All they care about is yourunning people are really
interesting, sometimes you'llsee people that talk about the
running elitists that are lookeddown on the slower runners.
And I keep thinking, where arethese people?
Cause I just think it's so cool.
Rev running has this wide rangeof runners from really good to
beginners and it's all cool andthey all love and respect each
(28:46):
other.
And it's a great community thatthey built.
Hey, They're getting good promohere.
but I think that's what runnersare all about.
We're out there cheering foreach other.
When I'm on the track, I've donemy workout.
I cheer for the people that arestill out there running, I want
everyone to know that everyoneelse cares about them.
I just think that's a reallycool part of it.
Yeah, it is.
(29:07):
an amazing community.
Nobody at the end of the day,everybody finishes at their
time.
We all support each other.
cheer each other on and then weall get together and celebrate
Everybody's got their own goalsand we all help each other get
there.
it really is a team sport and abeautiful one.
If you're a person, you're arunner.
there's no other stuff thatwe're getting in our society
today.
at that time, I can leave allthat behind me.
(29:29):
Totally.
A few things, I'd like to goover as well.
Can you talk a little bit moreabout aging runners, the
challenges, you talked a littlebit about how we have to still
strength train and all of that.
What are some things?
I would almost like segment thismaybe like after a 40, like the
40 to 60 range and maybe to 60plus range, what are some of the
(29:53):
important things we need tochange up and focus on?
when you're getting into yourforties, you might have to give
up on volume, maintain theintensity, but you really do
have to focus on specificstrength exercises to keep you
healthy.
You just have to be aware of it.
(30:14):
As you get older.
One of the things I'm seeing isthat you do have to get used to
cross train.
I'm running four days a week,and I don't know if I'm going to
put in a fifth day.
Monday is generally off, but Igenerally do a real fast, brisk
walk with the dogs about an hourand a half.
Tuesday is a track day.
(30:36):
Wednesday, I'm on the ellipticaltrainer and in the gym doing my
exercises.
Thursday, an easy run dayFriday, I'm doing a two mile
time trial.
Saturday, elliptical trainer,Sunday, long run.
One thing that older runner hasto understand is that getting on
the stationary bike orelliptical trainer is really
(30:58):
important.
You have Parker Volby, who's.
10, 000 meter Olympian who doesa bunch of her workouts on the
elliptical trainer because shegets beaten up too much just
going out running.
So that's where she's doing.
I don't know what other type of,strength exercises, whether
she's doing more traditionalstuff or something like I was
talking about earlier with thesling method, but I think that's
really important to get used tothat.
(31:20):
The other thing is staying onyour feet and staying, in the
game is critically important.
When you feel a ding, you haveto stop.
You can't mess with it.
No, You stop and walk at theslightest little ding in older
runners, you can't run throughit.
So you've got to be verycognizant of what's going on in
(31:43):
your body, so that you can getup the next day and do the
workout.
The other thing is that youcan't be afraid to dump a
workout.
When you're not feeling it, frompersonal experience I have a dog
that has cancer and he's alsoincontinent.
So he wakes me up a couple oftimes at night to take them out.
So I'm not getting as much sleepand my wife and I've been
(32:05):
talking, okay, we're going tobed early and that we've been
doing that.
I'm still only getting six and ahalf hours.
And I need more when I'm intraining.
So when I get out and run, if Idon't feel it a quarter of the
way in I'm dumping the workoutand I have no problem.
dumping an entire workout if Idon't feel good.
If you feel really tired startthe workout, because the way we
(32:27):
progress with workouts is wegenerally do the first interval
at a much easier pace as part ofthe warmup.
after the first one, you mightfeel, okay, I feel good.
I can do this.
that happens with a lot ofrunners.
But if you're not feeling it, oryou feel a little ding, or
you're just exhausted, It'sperfectly acceptable to just
stop the workout.
(32:47):
If one of my athletes says, Heycoach, I wasn't able to do it
today.
And I'll ask why, what was goingon?
I just didn't get my sleep.
I wasn't feeling good.
If I'm out there with theathlete, if I see that their
mechanics look rusty, they don'tlook normal and it will stop the
workout.
Rick Rojas does something reallyfunny.
What he'll do is at the end ofAn interval where they don't
(33:08):
look good.
He'll go, okay, this is what Iwant you to do.
I want the job for five minutesand come back to me after five
minutes, they come back to me.
What I want you to do is two 100meter strides.
And so a stride isn't really asprint.
It's just running faster.
It's comfortable fast.
And then it's okay, do one more,but do it at a slower pace.
(33:29):
And so he's always framing it ina very positive way.
But he's making sure you're notdoing something your body is not
able to do, or he'll just say,we're ending the workout if he
watches and your mechanics lookragged.
So that's the next thing that Iwould say is if you're doing a
long run, and your mechanicsstart to break down, your
posture isn't there and yourbody's looking bad.
(33:50):
Stop the run.
If you can, because you're notdoing yourself a favor.
Once the mechanics go, thatmeans your muscles have said,
I'm done.
I can't do this anymore.
the message for the seniorrunner is you've got to respect
what your body is telling you.
The most important thing isstaying on your feet.
Consistency.
(34:11):
if you're able to do what you'resupposed to do Then that's good.
But if you have to move thingsaround One of my challenges has
been is that when i've gotten onthe elliptical trainer Haven't
been able to do it quite as muchbecause i've been so tired
instead of an hour, I might do45 minutes and just call it I
don't have a problem with that.
Okay.
What about differences, withaging men and women?
(34:33):
That's an interesting one.
Working with women is just greatbecause they are so dedicated.
I think a lot has to do numberone with diet and actually with
everyone.
You want to make sure that theiriron levels are where they need
to be, but specifically withwomen.
If they're not feeling good andthey say, I don't feel it, the
first thing I wanna do is go toyour doctor and get a blood
(34:56):
test.
Let's just see if there'ssomething here going on that we
need to worry about.
Other than that, make surethey're eating a proper diet.
I don't get too far into thedifferences.
In our group we have one womanthat was part of the four by 800
meter.
Team that set the world recordfor 65 to 68 year olds.
(35:16):
Oh, wow.
She's really good.
everyone's treated individually.
I'm having a problem with this.
my quad then we deal with that,but I don't deal with it
differently except for when it'ssomething medical and obviously
I'm not qualified to talk aboutthat.
I just send them directly to thedoctor and make sure they get
the proper tests.
So what about for folks who, Iget approached a lot because
(35:39):
people know how much I run andhow passionate I am about it.
people who want to get intorunning.
don't know how, what's a smartway of approaching running?
Just generally, I know it'sdifferent for everybody and You
got to meet them where they'reat, But what would you say your
general, how to get into runningrules?
I wrote an article called, WhyRunning Sucks.
(36:04):
it was certainly tongue incheek, but if you're not used to
running, what happens to people?
I'm going to go, I'm going totry to run a mile and after 20
steps, they're alreadyoverloading their bodies.
Their bodies can't handle thestress.
So it hurts.
It's terrible.
(36:24):
It is absolutely awful.
You and I getting back into itafter a little break, we know
what to expect.
Yeah.
So there are programs out there.
And what I hate about theprograms is that they give you
goals.
this is the way I would set up aperson who says, Charles, I want
to get running.
I said the first thing I wantyou to do is commit to walking
(36:45):
five days a week for 50 minutesper walk.
So why 50 minutes?
Cause it sounds longer than 45and not quite an hour.
But I say 50 minutes cause 50minutes mentally sounds like a
long walk.
So I want you to walk briskly,really work that walk as fast as
you can.
Then when you feel up to it,throw in some jogging steps.
(37:06):
And as soon as you feel like,ah, I don't want to do this and
go back to a walk, go back to arun when you want to.
Go back to a walk and don'tmeasure it.
I did the same thing a few yearsago when I came back from a
pretty bad injury and I didthis, but I did use my lap timer
and I would look at itafterwards, but I never said,
okay, now I'm going to walk forfour minutes.
Now I'm going to run for fiveminutes.
(37:28):
And what happens when people dothat the only goal is to get
through 50 minutes.
And next goal is to never let itstink.
So I said, the goals are younever want.
The running to be unpleasurableso when you start you might walk
four or five steps and you mightgo back to a walk.
Okay.
The other thing you may getthree weeks out and you might
(37:49):
have been able to run for threeor four minutes and then the
next day you can't go out forthe walk.
Don't judge it because as weknow, the bodies are weird.
Some days you have it, some daysyou don't, but what I do promise
these people is that after eightweeks and 12 weeks of doing that
five days a week, six days aweek of going for 50 minutes.
(38:10):
That you're going to be runningmost of it and it's not going to
be terrible because you gaveyour body the opportunity to
adapt to it.
And so instead of, okay, I'mgoing to walk for five minutes,
run for one minute, I may not beable to run for one minute.
And then I get to these goalsand I really can't do these
goals and it's upsetting.
The shape people can get intoand the impact it can have on
(38:33):
their bodies and minds just bygoing for a walk every day.
So that's what gets me excited.
It's okay, you're going out forsix days a week, you're going
out for a good walk.
And guess what?
You've added some running to it.
So that's what I would recommendis you start with walking, you
add running with the only rulebeing, The running is never
terrible.
It doesn't hurt.
(38:53):
You're doing it by choice.
You're not doing it because youfeel like you've got to get to a
certain goal or a certain paceor a certain time.
So that's my recommendation.
It's really basic, but it'sreally powerful.
Yeah.
Great.
I'm going to add to that,Charles, going back to your
earlier point about community,I'd also encourage people to
find a running communityanywhere, you can go on Meetup
(39:17):
and just put in RunClubNearMeand You're going to find a club
and start running with people.
You're going to meet someamazing people and you're really
going to enjoy it.
And you're going to realizerunning is just a byproduct.
you're really there forcommunity.
that'll get you there.
The fun thing is tell people,Hey, I'm new to running, but I
want to start running.
You're going to have people thatare going to be fawning over you
(39:39):
and wanting to support you andhelp you.
So you feel like intimidatedthese good runners, especially
when the groups are in theirtwenties and thirties, and
they're really good looking andyoung, but man, they are so
supportive.
They're so supportive.
groups like, the Rev Runnings,are so supportive of beginners.
They have beginners groups tomake sure that they're able to,
(40:02):
progress in the runner's bestinterest.
So yeah, I totally agree withthat.
Find the community.
That's what's going to keep yougoing.
you might even say, Hey, I'mjust going to go walking at the
same time you're running.
And they said, great.
We'll see you when we're back.
We're going out for a beer here.
We're going to go out for dinnerhere.
Come on with us.
That's right.
In our 5 a.
m.
group, we have everybody, peoplewho are really fast to run
(40:23):
walkers, plenty of people whojust come and walk.
My wife actually comes with thedogs and just walks around the
park, so it's great.
Yeah, I I live a bit a ways, butI'm going to come one morning
where I have to get up at 3o'clock.
if I do that, I'm going out tobreakfast with you afterwards.
We're going to eat something.
Okay.
That sounds good.
It's on me.
Yeah, for sure.
(40:43):
Charles, that's a great segue toget into our world famous
Wayfinder four.
You ready?
I am ready.
All right, great.
Charles, give us a hack.
I use a program called TICK, T IC K, it's a to do list, but it's
very easily, integrates withyour calendar, and that's what I
(41:08):
use to keep myself going forwardand starting my running group
and my coaching, I'm doingthings I haven't done before and
I forget to do them, but thathelps me do them.
So that is the one sort of hack.
If I would say, in running, itwould be doing strides.
Doing two, three days a week ofrunning strides.
(41:29):
That would be my running hack.
My life hack is tick.
Yeah.
Awesome.
How about a favorite?
I told you earlier about SteveMagnus and Brad Stolberg.
I love.
the love behind their message.
I love the understanding of whathappens when people are doing
(41:51):
quote hard things.
As a matter of fact, one ofSteve Magnus's book is, do hard
things, and, that's beensomething that has been a
favorite of mine lately.
I spend a lot of time thinkingabout what running has taught me
and how it's shaped my mindset.
the whole concept of just doinghard things and embracing that
(42:11):
and enjoying it, the pain, theagony of running and doing that.
And I think, I've learned thatfrom running and I working on
something around that as well.
I think running teaches you thatso well, it's such a great
metaphor for it, Now it'sinteresting on Sunday, I'm going
to be doing my long run up inBoulder I'm going to be going up
Boulder Canyon for the firstfive, six miles.
(42:33):
And I'm going to run downbecause Our half marathon is all
downhill.
I'm nervous as heck about thatFirst five or six miles uphill
and then recovering from thedownhill but it's okay I'm
nervous, but i'm ready to go.
I'll do it.
I'll get it in.
that's a challenge that's asteep grade too.
How about a piece of advice foryour younger self?
Be kind to yourself.
(42:55):
Save your money.
If you start a job, go into the401k from day one.
the one thing I would do isreally learn to ask Why am I not
doing the things I need to do?
If you have the maturity to say,why am I not doing this?
And then why is that?
you can come up with someconclusions if you're a
(43:16):
salesperson, why am I not makingThe cold calls well because I
don't like rejection.
What about rejection?
Why is that a problem for you?
it just happens.
It's not personal but it'sreally recognizing where your
challenges are and Attackingthem because most people don't
do that since i've left thecorporate world.
(43:37):
I've done a lot of that a lot ofwondering, How can I be more
effective and why haven't I inthe past ask why and notice what
you're doing and why you'redoing it.
I absolutely love that Iwouldn't say it's a younger
person thing.
I think that's something we needto be doing Consistently, you
said you, that was my point isthat I'm doing it now.
I wish I would have done it as ayounger person because most
(43:58):
younger people don't do that.
They're just going along withtheir lives.
I always joke about the factthat a good salesman.
I've done well, I'm financiallysecure.
I was always in the top 25, butnever in the top five or 10%.
I spent a bunch of time figuringout why, and I think that's
helping me now.
That's awesome.
(44:19):
I love it.
What about a big opportunitythat either you see out there in
the world or that you'repursuing?
It's interesting, this coachingside of it, and you and I have
spoken about it before.
Everyone should know that when Iwant to talk about something, I
will talk to you because Of yourintegrity level the fact that I
(44:39):
trust you totally and that issomething that money can't buy
So the big thing for me is Iwant to impact as many people as
a running coach as I possiblycan and that's exciting for me
i've talked about starting aRunning group here and I am
going to do that I'm, just goingto be gone for a month in
november But after that's goingto be and so i'm making the
(45:01):
commitment to you that i'm goingto start a running group that's
going to be a place where theycan learn how to do some of
these workouts in a way thatisn't intimidating for them you
go to boulder that can be reallyintimidating seeing some of
those younger groups out there,doing the work.
It could be wow and that couldbe a little off putting So,
(45:23):
that's what I want to do beforeI I'm 62, it's gosh, in the next
10 years, I still want to buildsomething where people have a
sense of community.
And that's the thing how tobuild the sense of community as
well as a place where people cango and do their work and enjoy
it.
Yeah, I love it.
You'll do that charles if peoplewant to see coaching to become a
(45:45):
better runner or just get intorunning I think the runner's
hotline is a good place to go.
How can they find it?
The runner's hotline is It'sfunny, I never say runner's
hotline, I say runner's dashhot, because it's www.
runners hotline.
com.
And, if you need, strength, nowthe strength work in there is
more conditioning work.
(46:06):
I'm going to be working withpeople on more of the running
oriented.
We also have a licensednutritionist that, Is gonna work
with people so people haveissues with, eating and want a
better diet.
They have someone who's a realpro at it.
you can sign up there or you canjust send me an email,
charles@runnershotline.com andlet's get online together for
(46:28):
half an hour or so.
I have no problem talking withpeople about their training.
So that you get comfortable withthis is what would work for you.
that's part of my process beforeI accept, anyone as an athlete,
we're going to talk first andwe're going to have them fill
out the questionnaire and have adiscussion about it so that they
can feel comfortable with doingwhat's in their best interest.
(46:51):
thank you.
I love your methodology.
I love how digestible it is.
It's very, it's not overwhelmingat all.
You take it, you give it to merun by run, which is really
helpful.
I can already see thedifferences.
we didn't talk about this, butTuesday, I had a workout I put
in the notes in the app that yougave, us, which is great, I had
to stay within certain paces,for that workout.
(47:13):
I found those paces.
very hard to get to that pacein, in the opposite direction
than what people are thinking.
Like it was actually, I couldn'tgo slow enough for that pace.
Three weeks in, I'm alreadyrunning naturally faster than
when I started.
I really tried hard to slow itdown for that pain.
I'm not a big, I don't like totalk to technically oriented,
(47:37):
but it or live and die by theheart rate.
But, you can look down and see,I feel really good here.
Gosh, I'm running a little fast,but then you look at your heart
rate.
Your heart rate's okay, I'mfeeling pretty good.
Look at it and I start writingdown.
This is what your heart rateseemed to be over here doing
this and I only use it as aguideline not as a rule of
(47:58):
thumb, like the whole zone tworunning gotta run in zone two.
You want to run but not run toohard?
have a conversation and ifyou're not gasping you're in
zone two.
if you can breathe through yournose without gasping then you're
in zone two and stop worryingabout it hopefully we didn't
geek out on running too muchbecause you and I can talk about
(48:19):
this stuff all day There arefolks who listen to the
wayfinder show because they knowmy running friends first of all
and they know i'm passionateabout running and that will I
have been asking for shows aboutrunning and I'm glad you're here
and you've got a lifetime ofwisdom to share.
And I think that they will doreally well to get coached by
you.
So I hope that give you a calland sign up on Runners Hotline,
(48:43):
at least sign up for the freeconsulting call initially, and
see if it's a good fit for you.
Hey, Luis, before we go, do youknow, we're running this half
marathon on August 10th, whatelse is August 10th?
It's the men's marathon.
So you and I are going to haveto go someplace and watch the
Olympic marathon.
Oh, is it on that day?
Okay.
We race.
(49:04):
Man, they might be done by thetime we start.
they're in Paris, but it'sAugust 10th.
Okay.
Awesome.
Thanks again, coach.
Look forward to, seeing, whatelse you do with me and how you
take me to new heights.
hope our listeners, at leastsign up for the free call and
see if it's a good fit for them.
Thank you.
Also one last thing, you canget, my.
(49:25):
20 laws of running.
You can go there and get thatfor free.
All you have to do is sign upand it'll come directly to you.
I appreciate it.
You got quite a bit on yourwebsite, so check it out Thanks.
We hope you've enjoyed TheWayfinder Show.
If you got value from thisepisode, please take a few
seconds to leave us a 5 starrating and review.
This will allow us to help morepeople find their way to live
(49:48):
more authentic and excitinglives.
We'll catch you on the nextepisode.
If you want long term success inanything, if you don't have a
sense of community, you're goingto get burned out because you
need to have something to goback to.
They don't care if you're thetop salesperson, they don't care
if you qualified for the ballAustin marathon.
They don't care.
All they care about is yourunning.
People are really interesting.
(00:20):
Sometimes you'll see people thattalk about the running elitist
that are looked down on theslower runners.
And I keep thinking, where arethese people?
Cause I just think it's so coolrunning has this wide range of
runners from really good tobeginners and it's all cool and
they all love and respect eachother and it's a great community
(00:41):
that they built.
Welcome to the Wayfinder showwith Louie Hernandez, where
guests discuss the why and howof making changes that led them
down a more authentic path orallow them to level up in some
(01:02):
area of their life.
Our goal is to dig deep andprovide not only knowledge, but
actionable advice to help youget from where you are to where
you want to be.
Come join us and find the way toyour dream life.
(01:25):
All right, welcome back to thewayfinder show today We're here
to talk about my favoritesubject in the world running we
have a really special guest withus today His name is charles
shapiro and charles has been arunner all his life In his
youth.
He was a successful crosscountry runner for both his high
school and University ofMaryland.
While he kept running all of hisadult life, he went into the
(01:48):
business world and uponretirement, started coaching
cross country and track at HolyFamily High School in
Broomfield, Colorado, where forthe first time in the school's
history, both the boys and girlsteams won their regional
championships two years in arow.
And they had the best combinedfinish in the state
championships during those twoyears.
(02:10):
After that he left to coach withRise Running, a team of junior,
open, masters, and eliteathletes in Boulder, Colorado.
Now he's launched the RunnersHotline to expand his reach to
runners that are committed tocrushing their running goals,
but haven't found a programthat's worked for them yet.
I'm proud to say I'm workingwith Charles.
We started working togetherabout three weeks ago, and I'm
(02:33):
confident that he's going tohelp me surpass my plateaus, in
running.
I'm excited to have thisconversation with him about his
running philosophies and sharethat with you all.
So Charles, welcome to theWayfinder show.
Good morning, Louis.
It's great to be here.
I'm excited to talk to you.
Yeah.
Likewise.
We get to talk, at differentcapacities every once in a
(02:53):
while, but it's good to now Igot you in my domain.
So this is going to be fun.
I got to unleash some punishmenton you after all the things you
put on me with all thoseworkouts.
before we get started, can youshare a little bit about your
running journey you're obviouslya very passionate runner and
just like to explore more wherethat comes from.
I've always, loved sports andathletics.
(03:16):
And when I was a kid, I playedbaseball.
I played football.
I played basketball, but I wasalways short and wasn't a good
sprinter.
And I was always average in allthose things.
But when I played football, Iwas really good at laps.
I'd beat everybody at laps.
And so when track came along,it's okay, maybe I can be good
at that.
And when I found out I waspretty good at running, That's
(03:39):
what I, I grabbed on to my highschool had a great tradition of
distance running and, some ofthe school records super
impressive, even by today'sstandards.
I started running in highschool.
I did really well.
I was fourth in the state in thetwo mile back when they did
things called the mile or thetwo mile.
(04:00):
I started at Boston university.
I ran a year at Bostonuniversity where.
That was the great, Rosie Ruizyears of people that remember
the year someone snuck in at theend of the Boston Marathon.
I was working with Bill Rogersrunning center that day.
I have run a two 33 marathon inmy, red shirt year.
So the year that I couldn't racefor Maryland, what was that
(04:20):
training?
I was doing a bunch of training.
I decided to jump into amarathon and, that's ended up
being my fastest marathon.
once I started into the businessworld, there really wasn't a
structure.
And a community to keep me,going, today I think the
structure is important, but thecommunity, and this is what all
over the country, they do reallywell.
And here in Colorado justbeautiful, providing a sense of
(04:44):
community.
about, 15 years ago, I decidedto get back into running because
I had been running, but justinconsistently.
And, so since then I've run a,over, I'm no Louie Hernandez.
I read 3 20 at the Marine CorpsMarathon in 2014, about 10 years
ago.
I've been running and dealingwith injuries.
(05:05):
this has been, one of thereasons why I really gotten into
the coaching.
Is because I've been dealingwith injuries all the time.
Every time I get into goodshape, something would happen.
The, calf would strain and Icouldn't run where the hamstring
would go.
I'd be running on all of asudden there's a pull and, I'm
trying to figure out what isgoing on working with rise
running and Rick Rojas, who'sthe head coach, his daughter
(05:29):
Nell is a sub two 25 marathonerand work with that group.
I've really sharpened mycoaching skills, I've also
developed specific thoughts onhow to stay healthy through this
process, especially as you get alittle bit older.
And when you start disobeyingthe basic rules of running, you
start getting injured.
(05:49):
You can't ignore the fact thatyou have to stay strong and do
things the right way.
You can't overdo it.
You've got to be very careful.
Today I'm in training.
my friend Louie Hernandez isrunning at the same time.
So I'm going to be talking tohim about riding over together.
after that, I have a minorsurgery, but the goal is if I
can keep myself healthy for ayear, that's the goal I'm going
(06:11):
to be running another marathonin December of 2025.
I think I've told you this, the,California International
Marathon in Sacramento.
Oh, yeah.
in the meantime, I want to,train and get into great shape
and help others, achieve at thesame time.
That's the fun part of it forme.
you and I have known each otherfor like 10 years now maybe even
more we ran together in anotherclub, i'd always try to hang on
(06:34):
to you and pick your brainbecause it was pretty clear
early on You had a lot ofrunning knowledge I remember a
5k race in arvada And you wereout ahead of me I'm like, I got
to catch him.
I couldn't, but it's like, Oh,that guy's pretty good.
That's pretty good.
I want to catch him.
and that's the first memory Ihave of you was in that race.
And afterwards, I think wetalked for a few minutes, That's
(06:56):
funny.
I forgot about that.
Yeah.
that's right.
but you know what always stoodout to me was your passion for
running.
We also are both, real estatebrokers, right?
You've been a very successfulcommercial broker and still are
in the Denver metro area.
we'd get together and talk aboutthat, but ultimately, we always
come back to running.
You just have such a passion forit.
(07:16):
So I'm really happy that you gotinto, coaching, here now,
because it's clear to me that'swhere your passion is.
at our age, I'm 62.
You're a little bit younger, butwe're saying, okay.
What's going to make our hearthappy?
Where are we happiest?
I know where I'm happiest.
I'm happiest when I'm out therewith a bunch of other runners,
(07:37):
running with them, leading themin workouts.
I'm energized.
I'm happy.
They feel that energy, which isreally important in a coaching
relationship.
I wish we could do that in ourentire lives.
Maybe we can, but we just don'trealize that when we're younger,
that we can follow our passions.
That's right.
Yeah.
So talk to me a little bit aboutthe, you're running
(08:00):
philosophies.
You mentioned you, youdefinitely are different.
I'll share my experience in abit, but I'm curious to know
What makes you different fromother running coaches?
There's several things.
Listen, there's so many goodrunning coaches that know the
basics of building an aerobicengine and getting you at the
starting line.
(08:21):
But here's the challenge,especially as you get older,
we're told that we have to liftweights and get stronger and we
do as human beings.
So don't think that I'm notsaying don't do squats, don't do
deadlifts, don't do benchpresses, they're critically
important as we get older thatwe maintain that muscle mass.
(08:42):
But as a runner, I think that'sabsolutely worthless.
And I think that as a runner,stretching is absolutely
worthless.
There is no research thatindicates that any stretching
makes you more injury resistant.
about eight or nine months ago,I tripped on something online
and it made sense.
I talked to a guy from Australiait's called the sling method.
(09:04):
I recommend people go to thesling method.
Because his Strengtheningexercises are so running
oriented think about what'shappening when you run, it's a
scissors action.
Your legs are going this way andthat way.
And it's coming from the hipswhere it's back and forth.
I heard one coach say, Thatrunning is a jumping exercise.
(09:26):
Maybe on the sprinting side,there's some jumping in it, but
it is using your hips pushingthe foot forward and pulling
back.
And so the force is forward andback.
how do you train Those musclesto work correctly so that you
don't get injured if they'velearned how to work correctly
without tearing muscles fromstretching or what have you,
(09:50):
you're going to be moreaffected.
Now that's the first side of it.
The second.
Is and I was telling you earlierthat I have a video for you And
a lot of us know this but don'tdo it is doing self myofascial
release using the foam rollerlacrosse ball baseball or tennis
ball to find those areas thatare painful I was having about
five or six months ago and thisis going on for years an
(10:12):
inability to do a lunge so myLeft foot is forward.
I'm Going down with my rightknee and I couldn't do it
because my left knee wouldcollapse.
And then I just did somemyofascial release on the quad
right near the knee where I wason my stomach and I put a ball
right on it.
And within three days, Thathasn't happened.
(10:36):
And so I'm going, wow, what ifyou did this with glutes?
We don't think that there'sreally issue with the glutes But
then if you put up a ball andyou sit on and it's painful
That's sending you a messagethat you've got to work some
things out So I spend about 20minutes a day I don't want to do
too much because I always thinkthat if you overload your brain,
it's just too much.
(10:56):
And you say, this is more painthan it's emotional pain, but
you've got to do these exercisesand you've got to do them.
So that you're searching and notbe afraid of the fact that It
does hurt.
You stick a ball into your sideof your hip and that can be
really painful, but guess what?
It shouldn't be really painful.
(11:17):
And it's just showing.
that we're either weak or wehave some deficiencies and the
exercises really are workingthose specific running muscles
and specific running muscleways.
It's just critically important.
So as a matter of fact, I'mgoing to be putting out a
Facebook message.
what are the biggest lies you'retold, as a runner, you have to
(11:38):
strength train while you do, butnot the way they're telling you
stretching.
I do some, dynamic stretches.
I do some leg swings, and allthat and some lunges.
And I do some dynamic warmups,skipping and things like that
when I'm getting ready for hardworkouts.
But as a regular part of my daynow, so that's where I think I
(12:00):
get to be a little bitdifferent.
Also, I'm a big proponent ofsprinting and we've had this
discussion, in the base phase oftraining, we're thinking, okay,
I'm going to build this aerobicbase.
I'm going to just run long andslow I'm a big believer in long
and slow, but I'm also a bigbeliever in the base phase of
building speed and doing hillsprints.
(12:22):
So we've talked about doing.
Eight second hill sprint.
So if you're a beginner at this,you might start with eight
repetitions of eight second hillsprints as hard as you can.
And so it's not really hardafter eight cents, you're
breathing a little hard and youjog down the hill.
then you take a full five minutejogging rest in between.
the reason why you do the fiveminutes is that.
(12:45):
Biochemically, you haven'trecovered after 90 seconds, your
lactate is still, pushed up.
what we really want to do is getcompletely recovered, and then
do another one.
if you add one per week, andyou're doing eight to 10, the
workout might be a mild warm upeight seconds up the hill, five
minute jog coming back and doingeight seconds again, and just
(13:06):
doing that jog back and forth,translate.
that to the flat, once you'vebuilt up that speed.
if your speed is a little bitfaster and your normal pace is
about the same, you have, what'scalled a speed reserve.
That's the difference betweenthe pace that you run.
And the fastest that you canrun.
Plus the other thing is, yourfast twitch muscle fibers, the
(13:28):
type two muscle fibers are usedwhen you're running a marathon.
what they've seen is that yourslow twitch fibers will fatigue.
And then your fast twitchfibers.
We'll be working for 8, 10, 15seconds and then come back out.
They're actually an importantpart of the process.
So train them easily in the basephase, because the cool thing
(13:49):
about training is once you'vedeveloped that speed, and once
we get past the base phase,You're going to be doing hill
sprints.
You'll be doing like six hillsprints once every 10 days or
something like that.
At the end of a workout, we'llthrow it in because it's easier
to maintain a skill set than itis to maintain it.
So once we've developed that,once you've developed being
(14:12):
really good in doing, tempointervals or tempo runs, you
don't have to do it quite asoften.
Because it's developed, youstill do it, but you might do it
once or twice every two weeks.
So I guess the philosophy isthat once you've added something
to a running program, you neverget rid of it.
You just, don't have to do itquite as much.
(14:33):
And as you gear towards a keyrace, where you want to break
three hours for the marathon.
in that last six weeks, we'refocusing like a laser on, sub
three hour paces a lot.
But are we going to be doingother things?
Absolutely.
you don't leave things behind.
You're just going to be doingmore marathon type pace, to get,
(14:54):
your body really used to thelonger distance and the specific
pace.
that's one of the things Inoticed right away with you.
I think we've only been at itthree weeks and we talked early
on, you had a great intakeprocess, by the way, your
questionnaire was very thorough.
And then our first meeting, Iwent in there thinking, you're a
good friend, so I really want tohelp you.
(15:15):
And that's why I'm doing this.
And I came out of there mindblown, you looked at my recent
times and everything, you couldtell where my deficiencies were
right away and you could tellwhat I needed to work on.
And it gave me hope that.
I couldn't exceed, especially atthe shorter distances goals.
I really wasn't even thinking Icould do anymore, so it's pretty
neat.
I noticed that we do a lot ofshort, fast work, right?
(15:39):
Almost in every run you havingme do some strides.
And for those who don't knowstrides are just like 20 second
sprints we're doing more, short.
Hill intervals and such.
I'm enjoying it.
It's fun to go fast for a while.
I think, I was a pretty fastrunner in short distances as a
kid, I ran to catch the busreally fast, that kind of thing.
(16:00):
But I could never run a mile.
I didn't have long, slow twitchspeed and I developed it over
time by running longer andslower.
And that became my philosophyand that slower got faster.
Over time, but it was stillright.
And so it definitely helped.
But now I think you're taking adifferent approach with me that
I can see already theimprovements in just three
(16:21):
weeks.
Cause I think that fast Twitchmuscle develops a little faster.
Absolutely.
And what's going to be reallyfun is, as what I do is I take.
Whatever race you've done andsay, okay, here is what your
workouts are going to be basedon.
The workouts are going to bebased on the races you've done.
And you might run them a littlefaster and say, Hey, Charles,
(16:41):
this feels pretty easy.
That's sort of state in therealm of those paces.
Yeah.
Because then you're going to runa half marathon and you're gonna
say, okay, I did better in thisand then we'll change the pacing
around again.
But it's really based on whereyou're at.
I did A time trial for, a mile,in September and time trial for
(17:01):
everyone is a simulated race.
It's not 100%, but it's prettyclose.
And I ran it in 6 47.
So I'm 62 years old, and I'mrunning that mile and someone
took a picture of me and I hadThe worst, most painful look I
have ever seen on my face.
It was just pure agony because Iremembered the last time I did a
(17:24):
mild time trial, I was incollege.
Yeah.
That was back then, wasn't it?
Yeah.
it was interesting because evenwhen I was running with better
runners, in my twenties, it wasreally set.
You did long intervals onFriday.
On Tuesday, you did shortintervals.
You did a long run.
You there wasn't really,everyone really good shape
(17:46):
because they did this sort ofbasic short intervals, long
intervals.
And then, and then a long run,you don't see that a lot with
today's groups where, the focusis really on the long run.
Back in the day, the focuswasn't really on the long way.
You did it, Sunday mornings, yougo out and do your long runs,
but, now it's such a big thingand they've made it that it's
(18:07):
the most important run of theweek.
It can be, but really, if you'renot doing much running in the
middle of the week, and then youdo this long run on the weekend,
You need to run more during theweek.
you need to have more variety inyour program i'm really excited
and happy that you're Findingfun and running a little bit
faster and doing things a littlebit different I feel the same
(18:28):
way in my training When i'mdoing different stuff at
different speeds You're gonnahave workouts where you're doing
different speeds in the middleof the workout.
You might do 800 meters at onepace then take two minutes rest
and then do 100 meters prettyfast And rest I like to train
different energy systems in thesame workout.
I like to also get the feelingof running different speeds
(18:50):
because we get into a rhythm andI want to get you out of that.
I want it so that I know I canspeed up from here.
I'm running a certain pace, butI can speed up if I want to,
because it's usually mentallyand physically really hard to
change that pace in the middleof a race.
Yeah, one of the things yousaid, that stuck with me during
that intake meeting was youlooked at my recent times and
you said, oh, great.
(19:11):
there's a misalignment herebetween what I'm running a
marathon at and what I'm runninga 5k at.
I should be running my 5ks muchfaster.
And the more, That's resonatingas time gone on, I realized,
yeah I've hit a speed plateau, Itrained hard for this past
marathon, and I was really proudof my results I remember having
so much energy at the end that Iactually had more energy than
(19:35):
speed, which I know sounds crazyto people, but it is possible.
Like I hadn't had an experiencelike that in a long time.
it just has made me realize Ineed to start working my speed
again because I did turn my legsover as fast as I could, but I
had the energy, the lungs tohave gone harder if I had
trained my legs for that, that'swhy it's exciting.
(19:55):
You have this great aerobicengine that can do it.
That's the fun part aboutworking with you.
I don't worry about the aerobicengine.
It's working at the higher endof that aerobic engine.
Have you heard of the trainingthat The Norwegian middle
distance runners are doing Ihave heard of it.
Yeah.
We have a guy in our 5am clubthat has been doing that.
you got to be careful on how youimplement that.
(20:16):
This guy Is the best in theworld, but he's working as high
end of his aerobic, training somuch that, he's able to kill it.
And, what will I throw somethinglike that in your training?
Absolutely.
We will talk about it,beforehand I throw in two hard
workouts in one day.
(20:36):
Yes.
But then you'll have four easydays after that.
you do want to get shaken up andI want to go back to what you
were saying about thedifferential and where I always
knew it, but it really was putin front of me when working with
Rick Rojas.
I'll talk to him cause Iconsider him my coaching mentor
and he'll be talking about amarathon runner and he goes,
(20:58):
this guy's doing it all wrong.
And I go, what do you mean?
He goes he wants to get betterat the marathon.
But he really needs to get his10k and half marathon because
his 10k leads him to running a216 marathon.
If he wants to run 211, he'sgoing to have to get his 10k
time down by 40 seconds.
(21:18):
he should be focusing on thatonce he's hit it, then, okay,
let's go back into marathontraining and his daughter.
Now you always see her runningdifferent length races.
She's not stuck just running themarathon.
You'll see her in a 5k and a 10K.
And a five miler and a 10 miler.
And I totally believe thatconfidence that you will get
(21:40):
when you run a, an 1830 or 1840,5k is going to turn you and it's
going to make you go, Whoa.
Yeah, I'm excited.
that's what's going to be fun.
one of the things we do in theprocess is really what are the
key races?
(22:01):
And so this is going to be thefirst time in a while that your
key race isn't a marathon.
We're going to wait till thespring and have you kill it in
Boston, Let's find some racesin, October and November that
you can really peak for.
And then once you have thosetimes, it's going to be like,
okay, I'm ready to go.
(22:21):
And that's, yeah, that's whatmakes this whole journey so much
fun, no matter what age you are,because I'm never going to run a
PR again.
I'm never going to run a two 33marathon.
I'm never going to run under 15minutes for 5k.
I'm never going to run under 30,under 31 minutes for the 10k, I
have my goals and they motivateme and they're exciting.
(22:42):
I just have to stay healthy.
And that is.
The absolute key, what iseveryone doing on a daily basis
to make sure that they're injuryresistant, they can do the
training without all of a suddenbreaking down.
let's talk about that's a goodsegue getting away from that
running philosophy of yours intothe mindset because you have run
at really high levels In youryouth one of the things I've
(23:05):
noticed especially living inBoulder you come across the best
of the best runners and theyhit, that time when they're no
longer the best of the best andthey get depressed and get out
of running And then you wonderif they ever really loved
running or just being reallycompetitive I have a very good
friend who's actually a loyallistener of the show, Josh.
So if you listen this question'sfor you, man.
He was a incredibly talentedrunner, in college, went to sch
(23:28):
had a scholarship, I believe hewas All American, and, and he
now struggles because he can'thit his times that he was
hitting ten years ago.
he's only in his early thirties,but, you can tell he's a very
passionate runner, like clearlyrunning is, but he get beats
himself up over that.
How did you deal with that?
Because you were at the samelevel at one point, and here you
(23:49):
are, and you've alwaysmaintained that passion and
still do.
How did you deal with that?
I didn't actually.
I was back and forth now in my40s I can Empathize with them.
I think there's several thingsthough Number one is the sense
of community and the sense ofloving running for just the sake
of loving running.
Louie you don't have a 5 a.
(24:10):
m.
Club just because you want tobreak three hours in the
marathon you have because youlove it and you meet new people
and that energizes you.
So you have to have a biggerwhy.
The other thing is that someonein their mid thirties, if I was
coaching them, what I would sayto Josh is number one, you've
got to be kind to yourself andyou've got to be patient.
(24:33):
Let's just train for a year andsee where that takes you being
consistent and doing the rightthings.
And what will happen is he willstart feeling it again.
And it might take a year, two orthree to get back because he's
still in his early 30s.
He can still get back to areally great level, but it's not
as easy as when you're in your20s.
(24:54):
Mark Coogan, who coaches, theNew Balance women out of,
Boston, has, I think, threewomen running in Paris.
Ellie St.
Hilaire is probably the best1500 meter runner in the
country.
I ran with him back in the day,and he was a pretty good college
runner.
He got much better afterwards.
That was the cool thing.
he was able to keep his foot inthe sport.
(25:16):
But, you've got to findwhatever, gives you passion, but
I'm going to go back tocommunity.
I'm all over the place here,you've got to have a sense of
community because if you don'thave the sense of community into
something bigger to run with orrun for, that becomes a
challenge.
And then, Josh, I'd have himrunning, I'd have him doing the
strength stuff.
I'd have him sprinting more,getting fast and then getting in
(25:36):
his mind that he can do it.
all of a sudden he goes outthere and runs a 5k in 16
minutes.
And I know that he ran it, twominutes faster, but he's I'm
getting there.
So that's what I would tell him.
Find your passion, just go to doit because you love it.
you still have time to run somereally good times.
It's not like those of us thatare fifties or sixties where we
(25:58):
have to do it, knowing thatwe're not going to hit, personal
best times ever again.
I don't really care about thosetimes.
That's a different life for me.
I have no idea how fast I canrun a marathon.
The goal for the half marathonis to break four hours based on
my training, I'm going to berunning a race.
(26:19):
next Saturday, four hours in ahalf marathon.
You can assume two hours in ahalf marathon.
Excellent.
you develop the goals as you goalong and you got to get excited
about them.
I know I can achieve those goalstoo.
that's what I tell Josh, findthe love, get back into it,
train smart, get someone totrain with, or find a good coach
and go from there.
(26:39):
I think it's easier on us whoget into running during our
midlife I started in my midthirties, right?
for a while, almost every racewas a PR, which was awesome.
now I've plateaued.
So recently I got lucky that Ifinally had another PR, but it
took six years, I can see wherethe challenge comes.
Thanks.
When you've hit this epitome youcan't compare yourself to that I
(27:00):
now look In my community, whichwe've been a member of the
revolution running community thepeople I look up to the most Are
the runners in their 60s and 70swho are incredibly talented,
there are people I cannot hangwith And I just admire what they
do that's where I want to be.
Running well into, my olderyears, not so much, hitting
certain PRs or any of that.
(27:21):
you're right.
The community is it.
I look forward every morning, 5a.
m.
to running with my friends andlearning from them about life
and having discussions that helpmake us better friends, business
people, better Parents betterhusbands or wives, that
community is what's so importantThere's two writers that
(27:42):
whatever they put out, I readimmediately Steve Magnus,
because he's a great runningcoach who's wrote both personal
development books and thescience of running.
If you're going to get onerunning book, it's high level,
but the science of running, ifyou want to learn from a very
sophisticated viewpoint, thescience of running and Brad
Stolberg, and they talk a lot.
(28:03):
About community.
They talk about, the fact that,if you want long term success at
anything, if you don't have asense of community, you're going
to get burned out because youneed to have something to go
back to They don't care ifyou're the top salesperson, they
don't care if you qualify forthe Boston marathon.
They don't care.
(28:23):
All they care about is yourunning people are really
interesting, sometimes you'llsee people that talk about the
running elitists that are lookeddown on the slower runners.
And I keep thinking, where arethese people?
Cause I just think it's so cool.
Rev running has this wide rangeof runners from really good to
beginners and it's all cool andthey all love and respect each
(28:46):
other.
And it's a great community thatthey built.
Hey, They're getting good promohere.
but I think that's what runnersare all about.
We're out there cheering foreach other.
When I'm on the track, I've donemy workout.
I cheer for the people that arestill out there running, I want
everyone to know that everyoneelse cares about them.
I just think that's a reallycool part of it.
Yeah, it is.
(29:07):
an amazing community.
Nobody at the end of the day,everybody finishes at their
time.
We all support each other.
cheer each other on and then weall get together and celebrate
Everybody's got their own goalsand we all help each other get
there.
it really is a team sport and abeautiful one.
If you're a person, you're arunner.
there's no other stuff thatwe're getting in our society
today.
at that time, I can leave allthat behind me.
(29:29):
Totally.
A few things, I'd like to goover as well.
Can you talk a little bit moreabout aging runners, the
challenges, you talked a littlebit about how we have to still
strength train and all of that.
What are some things?
I would almost like segment thismaybe like after a 40, like the
40 to 60 range and maybe to 60plus range, what are some of the
(29:53):
important things we need tochange up and focus on?
when you're getting into yourforties, you might have to give
up on volume, maintain theintensity, but you really do
have to focus on specificstrength exercises to keep you
healthy.
You just have to be aware of it.
(30:14):
As you get older.
One of the things I'm seeing isthat you do have to get used to
cross train.
I'm running four days a week,and I don't know if I'm going to
put in a fifth day.
Monday is generally off, but Igenerally do a real fast, brisk
walk with the dogs about an hourand a half.
Tuesday is a track day.
(30:36):
Wednesday, I'm on the ellipticaltrainer and in the gym doing my
exercises.
Thursday, an easy run dayFriday, I'm doing a two mile
time trial.
Saturday, elliptical trainer,Sunday, long run.
One thing that older runner hasto understand is that getting on
the stationary bike orelliptical trainer is really
(30:58):
important.
You have Parker Volby, who's.
10, 000 meter Olympian who doesa bunch of her workouts on the
elliptical trainer because shegets beaten up too much just
going out running.
So that's where she's doing.
I don't know what other type of,strength exercises, whether
she's doing more traditionalstuff or something like I was
talking about earlier with thesling method, but I think that's
really important to get used tothat.
(31:20):
The other thing is staying onyour feet and staying, in the
game is critically important.
When you feel a ding, you haveto stop.
You can't mess with it.
No, You stop and walk at theslightest little ding in older
runners, you can't run throughit.
So you've got to be verycognizant of what's going on in
(31:43):
your body, so that you can getup the next day and do the
workout.
The other thing is that youcan't be afraid to dump a
workout.
When you're not feeling it, frompersonal experience I have a dog
that has cancer and he's alsoincontinent.
So he wakes me up a couple oftimes at night to take them out.
So I'm not getting as much sleepand my wife and I've been
(32:05):
talking, okay, we're going tobed early and that we've been
doing that.
I'm still only getting six and ahalf hours.
And I need more when I'm intraining.
So when I get out and run, if Idon't feel it a quarter of the
way in I'm dumping the workoutand I have no problem.
dumping an entire workout if Idon't feel good.
If you feel really tired startthe workout, because the way we
(32:27):
progress with workouts is wegenerally do the first interval
at a much easier pace as part ofthe warmup.
after the first one, you mightfeel, okay, I feel good.
I can do this.
that happens with a lot ofrunners.
But if you're not feeling it, oryou feel a little ding, or
you're just exhausted, It'sperfectly acceptable to just
stop the workout.
(32:47):
If one of my athletes says, Heycoach, I wasn't able to do it
today.
And I'll ask why, what was goingon?
I just didn't get my sleep.
I wasn't feeling good.
If I'm out there with theathlete, if I see that their
mechanics look rusty, they don'tlook normal and it will stop the
workout.
Rick Rojas does something reallyfunny.
What he'll do is at the end ofAn interval where they don't
(33:08):
look good.
He'll go, okay, this is what Iwant you to do.
I want the job for five minutesand come back to me after five
minutes, they come back to me.
What I want you to do is two 100meter strides.
And so a stride isn't really asprint.
It's just running faster.
It's comfortable fast.
And then it's okay, do one more,but do it at a slower pace.
(33:29):
And so he's always framing it ina very positive way.
But he's making sure you're notdoing something your body is not
able to do, or he'll just say,we're ending the workout if he
watches and your mechanics lookragged.
So that's the next thing that Iwould say is if you're doing a
long run, and your mechanicsstart to break down, your
posture isn't there and yourbody's looking bad.
(33:50):
Stop the run.
If you can, because you're notdoing yourself a favor.
Once the mechanics go, thatmeans your muscles have said,
I'm done.
I can't do this anymore.
the message for the seniorrunner is you've got to respect
what your body is telling you.
The most important thing isstaying on your feet.
Consistency.
(34:11):
if you're able to do what you'resupposed to do Then that's good.
But if you have to move thingsaround One of my challenges has
been is that when i've gotten onthe elliptical trainer Haven't
been able to do it quite as muchbecause i've been so tired
instead of an hour, I might do45 minutes and just call it I
don't have a problem with that.
Okay.
What about differences, withaging men and women?
(34:33):
That's an interesting one.
Working with women is just greatbecause they are so dedicated.
I think a lot has to do numberone with diet and actually with
everyone.
You want to make sure that theiriron levels are where they need
to be, but specifically withwomen.
If they're not feeling good andthey say, I don't feel it, the
first thing I wanna do is go toyour doctor and get a blood
(34:56):
test.
Let's just see if there'ssomething here going on that we
need to worry about.
Other than that, make surethey're eating a proper diet.
I don't get too far into thedifferences.
In our group we have one womanthat was part of the four by 800
meter.
Team that set the world recordfor 65 to 68 year olds.
(35:16):
Oh, wow.
She's really good.
everyone's treated individually.
I'm having a problem with this.
my quad then we deal with that,but I don't deal with it
differently except for when it'ssomething medical and obviously
I'm not qualified to talk aboutthat.
I just send them directly to thedoctor and make sure they get
the proper tests.
So what about for folks who, Iget approached a lot because
(35:39):
people know how much I run andhow passionate I am about it.
people who want to get intorunning.
don't know how, what's a smartway of approaching running?
Just generally, I know it'sdifferent for everybody and You
got to meet them where they'reat, But what would you say your
general, how to get into runningrules?
I wrote an article called, WhyRunning Sucks.
(36:04):
it was certainly tongue incheek, but if you're not used to
running, what happens to people?
I'm going to go, I'm going totry to run a mile and after 20
steps, they're alreadyoverloading their bodies.
Their bodies can't handle thestress.
So it hurts.
It's terrible.
(36:24):
It is absolutely awful.
You and I getting back into itafter a little break, we know
what to expect.
Yeah.
So there are programs out there.
And what I hate about theprograms is that they give you
goals.
this is the way I would set up aperson who says, Charles, I want
to get running.
I said the first thing I wantyou to do is commit to walking
(36:45):
five days a week for 50 minutesper walk.
So why 50 minutes?
Cause it sounds longer than 45and not quite an hour.
But I say 50 minutes cause 50minutes mentally sounds like a
long walk.
So I want you to walk briskly,really work that walk as fast as
you can.
Then when you feel up to it,throw in some jogging steps.
(37:06):
And as soon as you feel like,ah, I don't want to do this and
go back to a walk, go back to arun when you want to.
Go back to a walk and don'tmeasure it.
I did the same thing a few yearsago when I came back from a
pretty bad injury and I didthis, but I did use my lap timer
and I would look at itafterwards, but I never said,
okay, now I'm going to walk forfour minutes.
Now I'm going to run for fiveminutes.
(37:28):
And what happens when people dothat the only goal is to get
through 50 minutes.
And next goal is to never let itstink.
So I said, the goals are younever want.
The running to be unpleasurableso when you start you might walk
four or five steps and you mightgo back to a walk.
Okay.
The other thing you may getthree weeks out and you might
(37:49):
have been able to run for threeor four minutes and then the
next day you can't go out forthe walk.
Don't judge it because as weknow, the bodies are weird.
Some days you have it, some daysyou don't, but what I do promise
these people is that after eightweeks and 12 weeks of doing that
five days a week, six days aweek of going for 50 minutes.
(38:10):
That you're going to be runningmost of it and it's not going to
be terrible because you gaveyour body the opportunity to
adapt to it.
And so instead of, okay, I'mgoing to walk for five minutes,
run for one minute, I may not beable to run for one minute.
And then I get to these goalsand I really can't do these
goals and it's upsetting.
The shape people can get intoand the impact it can have on
(38:33):
their bodies and minds just bygoing for a walk every day.
So that's what gets me excited.
It's okay, you're going out forsix days a week, you're going
out for a good walk.
And guess what?
You've added some running to it.
So that's what I would recommendis you start with walking, you
add running with the only rulebeing, The running is never
terrible.
It doesn't hurt.
(38:53):
You're doing it by choice.
You're not doing it because youfeel like you've got to get to a
certain goal or a certain paceor a certain time.
So that's my recommendation.
It's really basic, but it'sreally powerful.
Yeah.
Great.
I'm going to add to that,Charles, going back to your
earlier point about community,I'd also encourage people to
find a running communityanywhere, you can go on Meetup
(39:17):
and just put in RunClubNearMeand You're going to find a club
and start running with people.
You're going to meet someamazing people and you're really
going to enjoy it.
And you're going to realizerunning is just a byproduct.
you're really there forcommunity.
that'll get you there.
The fun thing is tell people,Hey, I'm new to running, but I
want to start running.
You're going to have people thatare going to be fawning over you
(39:39):
and wanting to support you andhelp you.
So you feel like intimidatedthese good runners, especially
when the groups are in theirtwenties and thirties, and
they're really good looking andyoung, but man, they are so
supportive.
They're so supportive.
groups like, the Rev Runnings,are so supportive of beginners.
They have beginners groups tomake sure that they're able to,
(40:02):
progress in the runner's bestinterest.
So yeah, I totally agree withthat.
Find the community.
That's what's going to keep yougoing.
you might even say, Hey, I'mjust going to go walking at the
same time you're running.
And they said, great.
We'll see you when we're back.
We're going out for a beer here.
We're going to go out for dinnerhere.
Come on with us.
That's right.
In our 5 a.
m.
group, we have everybody, peoplewho are really fast to run
(40:23):
walkers, plenty of people whojust come and walk.
My wife actually comes with thedogs and just walks around the
park, so it's great.
Yeah, I I live a bit a ways, butI'm going to come one morning
where I have to get up at 3o'clock.
if I do that, I'm going out tobreakfast with you afterwards.
We're going to eat something.
Okay.
That sounds good.
It's on me.
Yeah, for sure.
(40:43):
Charles, that's a great segue toget into our world famous
Wayfinder four.
You ready?
I am ready.
All right, great.
Charles, give us a hack.
I use a program called TICK, T IC K, it's a to do list, but it's
very easily, integrates withyour calendar, and that's what I
(41:08):
use to keep myself going forwardand starting my running group
and my coaching, I'm doingthings I haven't done before and
I forget to do them, but thathelps me do them.
So that is the one sort of hack.
If I would say, in running, itwould be doing strides.
Doing two, three days a week ofrunning strides.
(41:29):
That would be my running hack.
My life hack is tick.
Yeah.
Awesome.
How about a favorite?
I told you earlier about SteveMagnus and Brad Stolberg.
I love.
the love behind their message.
I love the understanding of whathappens when people are doing
(41:51):
quote hard things.
As a matter of fact, one ofSteve Magnus's book is, do hard
things, and, that's beensomething that has been a
favorite of mine lately.
I spend a lot of time thinkingabout what running has taught me
and how it's shaped my mindset.
the whole concept of just doinghard things and embracing that
(42:11):
and enjoying it, the pain, theagony of running and doing that.
And I think, I've learned thatfrom running and I working on
something around that as well.
I think running teaches you thatso well, it's such a great
metaphor for it, Now it'sinteresting on Sunday, I'm going
to be doing my long run up inBoulder I'm going to be going up
Boulder Canyon for the firstfive, six miles.
(42:33):
And I'm going to run downbecause Our half marathon is all
downhill.
I'm nervous as heck about thatFirst five or six miles uphill
and then recovering from thedownhill but it's okay I'm
nervous, but i'm ready to go.
I'll do it.
I'll get it in.
that's a challenge that's asteep grade too.
How about a piece of advice foryour younger self?
Be kind to yourself.
(42:55):
Save your money.
If you start a job, go into the401k from day one.
the one thing I would do isreally learn to ask Why am I not
doing the things I need to do?
If you have the maturity to say,why am I not doing this?
And then why is that?
you can come up with someconclusions if you're a
(43:16):
salesperson, why am I not makingThe cold calls well because I
don't like rejection.
What about rejection?
Why is that a problem for you?
it just happens.
It's not personal but it'sreally recognizing where your
challenges are and Attackingthem because most people don't
do that since i've left thecorporate world.
(43:37):
I've done a lot of that a lot ofwondering, How can I be more
effective and why haven't I inthe past ask why and notice what
you're doing and why you'redoing it.
I absolutely love that Iwouldn't say it's a younger
person thing.
I think that's something we needto be doing Consistently, you
said you, that was my point isthat I'm doing it now.
I wish I would have done it as ayounger person because most
(43:58):
younger people don't do that.
They're just going along withtheir lives.
I always joke about the factthat a good salesman.
I've done well, I'm financiallysecure.
I was always in the top 25, butnever in the top five or 10%.
I spent a bunch of time figuringout why, and I think that's
helping me now.
That's awesome.
(44:19):
I love it.
What about a big opportunitythat either you see out there in
the world or that you'repursuing?
It's interesting, this coachingside of it, and you and I have
spoken about it before.
Everyone should know that when Iwant to talk about something, I
will talk to you because Of yourintegrity level the fact that I
(44:39):
trust you totally and that issomething that money can't buy
So the big thing for me is Iwant to impact as many people as
a running coach as I possiblycan and that's exciting for me
i've talked about starting aRunning group here and I am
going to do that I'm, just goingto be gone for a month in
november But after that's goingto be and so i'm making the
(45:01):
commitment to you that i'm goingto start a running group that's
going to be a place where theycan learn how to do some of
these workouts in a way thatisn't intimidating for them you
go to boulder that can be reallyintimidating seeing some of
those younger groups out there,doing the work.
It could be wow and that couldbe a little off putting So,
(45:23):
that's what I want to do beforeI I'm 62, it's gosh, in the next
10 years, I still want to buildsomething where people have a
sense of community.
And that's the thing how tobuild the sense of community as
well as a place where people cango and do their work and enjoy
it.
Yeah, I love it.
You'll do that charles if peoplewant to see coaching to become a
(45:45):
better runner or just get intorunning I think the runner's
hotline is a good place to go.
How can they find it?
The runner's hotline is It'sfunny, I never say runner's
hotline, I say runner's dashhot, because it's www.
runners hotline.
com.
And, if you need, strength, nowthe strength work in there is
more conditioning work.
(46:06):
I'm going to be working withpeople on more of the running
oriented.
We also have a licensednutritionist that, Is gonna work
with people so people haveissues with, eating and want a
better diet.
They have someone who's a realpro at it.
you can sign up there or you canjust send me an email,
charles@runnershotline.com andlet's get online together for
(46:28):
half an hour or so.
I have no problem talking withpeople about their training.
So that you get comfortable withthis is what would work for you.
that's part of my process beforeI accept, anyone as an athlete,
we're going to talk first andwe're going to have them fill
out the questionnaire and have adiscussion about it so that they
can feel comfortable with doingwhat's in their best interest.
(46:51):
thank you.
I love your methodology.
I love how digestible it is.
It's very, it's not overwhelmingat all.
You take it, you give it to merun by run, which is really
helpful.
I can already see thedifferences.
we didn't talk about this, butTuesday, I had a workout I put
in the notes in the app that yougave, us, which is great, I had
to stay within certain paces,for that workout.
(47:13):
I found those paces.
very hard to get to that pacein, in the opposite direction
than what people are thinking.
Like it was actually, I couldn'tgo slow enough for that pace.
Three weeks in, I'm alreadyrunning naturally faster than
when I started.
I really tried hard to slow itdown for that pain.
I'm not a big, I don't like totalk to technically oriented,
(47:37):
but it or live and die by theheart rate.
But, you can look down and see,I feel really good here.
Gosh, I'm running a little fast,but then you look at your heart
rate.
Your heart rate's okay, I'mfeeling pretty good.
Look at it and I start writingdown.
This is what your heart rateseemed to be over here doing
this and I only use it as aguideline not as a rule of
(47:58):
thumb, like the whole zone tworunning gotta run in zone two.
You want to run but not run toohard?
have a conversation and ifyou're not gasping you're in
zone two.
if you can breathe through yournose without gasping then you're
in zone two and stop worryingabout it hopefully we didn't
geek out on running too muchbecause you and I can talk about
(48:19):
this stuff all day There arefolks who listen to the
wayfinder show because they knowmy running friends first of all
and they know i'm passionateabout running and that will I
have been asking for shows aboutrunning and I'm glad you're here
and you've got a lifetime ofwisdom to share.
And I think that they will doreally well to get coached by
you.
So I hope that give you a calland sign up on Runners Hotline,
(48:43):
at least sign up for the freeconsulting call initially, and
see if it's a good fit for you.
Hey, Luis, before we go, do youknow, we're running this half
marathon on August 10th, whatelse is August 10th?
It's the men's marathon.
So you and I are going to haveto go someplace and watch the
Olympic marathon.
Oh, is it on that day?
Okay.
We race.
(49:04):
Man, they might be done by thetime we start.
they're in Paris, but it'sAugust 10th.
Okay.
Awesome.
Thanks again, coach.
Look forward to, seeing, whatelse you do with me and how you
take me to new heights.
hope our listeners, at leastsign up for the free call and
see if it's a good fit for them.
Thank you.
Also one last thing, you canget, my.
(49:25):
20 laws of running.
You can go there and get thatfor free.
All you have to do is sign upand it'll come directly to you.
I appreciate it.
You got quite a bit on yourwebsite, so check it out Thanks.
We hope you've enjoyed TheWayfinder Show.
If you got value from thisepisode, please take a few
seconds to leave us a 5 starrating and review.
This will allow us to help morepeople find their way to live
(49:48):
more authentic and excitinglives.
We'll catch you on the nextepisode.
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