March 18, 2025 • 52 mins
As the CEO of Learn It and author of The Learn It All Leader: Mindset, Traits, and Tools. Damon shares his journey from a promising baseball career to leading a global training company. He discusses overcoming imposter syndrome using a four-step framework, the significance of continuous learning and curiosity in leadership, and the transformative potential of AI in business. The conversation also covers building a resilient mindset, the power of deliberate practice, and strategies to guard against cognitive biases. Damon emphasizes the importance of integrating AI while maintaining essential human skills like empathy and communication.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Go for it.
Anyways, you know, just goapply.
What's the worst thing that canhappen?
Um, again, I've, I've coached alot of people and I've, you
know, even hired people whodidn't meet all the
requirements, but a lot ofpeople don't give themselves a
chance to fail.
So I guess that's my thing ofsaying, learn how to get
comfortable with failure.
(00:21):
Um, earlier on in my, uh, inyour, in your career, I wish I
would have done that earlierinstead of being a little too
safe at, at some times.
Welcome to The Wayfinder Showwith Luis Hernandez, where
(00:41):
guests discuss the why and howof making changes that lead them
down a more authentic path orallow them to level up in some
area of their life.
Our goal is to dig deep andprovide not only knowledge, but
actionable advice to help youget from where you are to where
you want to be.
Come join us and find the way toyour dream life.
(01:13):
Welcome back to The WayfinderShow.
I'm your host, Luis Hernandez.
And today I'm here with DamonLembe.
Damon is the CEO of Learn It, aglobal training company that has
empowered over 2 millionindividuals through workplace
learning.
He's the author of the Learn ItAll Leader and the host of the
Learn It All podcast.
(01:34):
Damian champions curiosity andcontinuous growth as keys to
effective leadership and he'shere to talk about that today.
Damon, welcome to the Wayfindershow.
Thanks for having me, buddy.
I'm honored to be here.
Yeah, thank you.
It's an honor to have you.
I understand you had a prettysuccessful baseball career, uh,
early in life.
So let's get to know you alittle bit.
(01:55):
Tell us about that.
So, the short version is, I, Igrew up, I grew up in the San
Francisco Bay Area, and uh,growing up was all about sports,
baseball, football, basketball.
By the time I was a sophomore inhigh school, I realized that if
I was going to play college orpro sports, my ticket was
baseball.
Um, I enjoyed basketball, but Iwas a little, you know, a little
(02:17):
too short, didn't have a greatjump shot.
And so I went All in inbaseball.
Worked, worked out pretty wellfor me.
I was a high school allamerican, and I had my first
really big decision, uh, mysenior year, I was drafted by
the Atlanta Braves, this wasback in 1995, so I'm, I'm kind
of dating myself here, and um, Ihad a full ride to Pepperdine
(02:39):
University down in Malibu, whichunfortunately is going through
all those terrible fires, andum, It was one of my first big
leadership lessons.
I really bought into what thecoach at Arizona, at Pepperdine,
Andy Lopez, you know, he hadthis moonshot goal that we're
going to win the college worldseries, even though Pepperdine
is this little 2, 500 personschool.
So I went that direction and Iplayed at Pepperdine.
(03:01):
I ended up getting hurt thereleft.
And then I ended up at Arizonastate and my wife likes to say
my glory day.
I hit a homerun in the, uh,College World Series.
Now, Louie, the funny thing is,the year I left, Pepperdine won
the College World Series.
So it shows you, you can setmoonshot goals and, um, and, and
(03:21):
make them happen.
Even, you know, when you getyour team together and everybody
Pulls in the same direction.
So, uh, it was a great learningopportunity all my, uh, baseball
career.
Yeah, wow.
So it ended in college then?
Yeah.
Because of the injury?
No, it didn't.
I mean, I, I got hurt atPepperdine.
Really, and we could talk aboutthis, I, I, I kind of had
imposter syndrome, you know, andlimiting beliefs and, and
(03:44):
doubted myself.
And it took me a while to getthrough it.
But I got to Arizona State.
I had a great year there.
And, uh, I was getting ready toget drafted again.
I was projected to be picked upin the 8th, through the 8th to
the 12th round, most likely bythe Philadelphia Phillies.
But you know, things happen.
I didn't get drafted, forwhatever reason.
And here I was, 22 years old.
(04:07):
My whole life, my identity, wasto be a baseball player.
That's all I thought about.
And so, it was basically overwith for me.
So, I didn't, I was kind ofunsure, are my skills even
transferable in the businessworld?
I was lucky that I came from afamily, um, a big real estate
company in, in the Bay Area, andwe had multiple different
(04:27):
businesses, but one of thebusinesses was this, uh,
computer training company thatwas just getting started, called
Learnit, and I started there,um, June of 1995 as the
receptionist and I did it for acouple of reasons.
One, I, like I said, I wasintimidated, didn't know if I
had the skills and number two,it was a family business and I
(04:50):
didn't want it to be this guythat, you know, my dad put me in
as like a senior level position.
I wanted to roll up my sleevesand show people that I could
actually contribute and do thework.
So I started off as areceptionist, worked my way
through and here we are.
I've been the CEO for going onabout 26 years.
Wow.
(05:10):
Wow.
Um, let's backtrack a littlebit.
The, you said you had impostersyndrome when you were in
college.
Yeah.
What was that like?
So, I always played with, youknow, the best of the best
everywhere, right?
You know, in summer leagues andeverything.
But when I got to Pepperdine,for whatever reason, everybody
was as good as me.
(05:31):
And, you know, I was 17 yearsold and I wasn't sure, uh, if I
was good enough or if Ibelonged.
And what am I Favorite storiesto tell is I went into my first
player coach meeting, you know,like a performance review with
Andy Lopez, the head coach.
And, you know, before I, rightwhen I sat down, he said to me,
(05:52):
you know, Damon, he sat forwardand said, when we recruited you,
we thought it was that you wouldbe a middle.
A lineup hitter, a great thirdbaseman and, you know, have an
opportunity to be a, a strong Done professional baseball
player.
And he crossed his arms, helooked at me and he is like,
son, we made a mistake.
You just don't have the talentto play D one baseball.
(06:15):
And then he just shut up.
And sat back and you know,Louis, I thought to myself, Oh
my gosh, I mean, how do I getout of here?
Right?
You know, how do I just go home,you know, get on a bus and go
home?
And before I even had a chanceto respond, he sat forward
again.
He pointed at me and he said,that is not what we think of
you.
The problem is, yeah.
That's what's in your head.
(06:36):
That's what you think ofyourself.
We see, our hitting coach seesyour ability.
He sees your talent.
But you need to get out of yourown head because we can't do
that for you.
You have to overcome whatever itis that's bugging you.
And, and, and limiting you.
And make it happen.
Otherwise, you're not going tobe successful here.
(06:57):
I would like to say Iimmediately left his office and,
and turned things around.
I didn't.
I, like I said, I had some kindof freak accident, um, and a
collision.
Uh, and I left Pepperdine, andthen I went to Arizona State.
And, uh, Louis, a lot of myfriends said, Look, don't go to
Arizona State.
They're gonna have 17 guystrying out for first base.
(07:20):
You know, why don't you go to asmall school, finish your
baseball career, and, you know,move on with your life.
And I said to myself, This is mylast chance and I kind of built
up like a, a framework that I'veused for my whole life, you
know, when it comes to, youknow, overcoming imposter
syndrome and it's really, youknow, step number one is looking
(07:42):
at like, okay, I call itpurposeful awfulizing.
What is it that I'm reallyafraid of?
Right?
You know, I mean, so am I afraidthat if I go to Arizona state
and I, and I fail and I don'tmake the team, Okay, well, I
could overcome that.
So once you realize you couldovercome it, the next step is,
like, there's no replacement forworking hard.
You got to work hard.
(08:03):
You know, you got to put in theeffort, be the first guy on the
field, last one to leave.
Number three, really, isdeliberate practice.
And so, for instance, if you're,if you struggle with public
speaking, maybe really focus inon something and get better at
it.
You know, it's really easy toprocrastinate or try different
things, but really deliberatepractice.
(08:24):
And number four, step numberfour is, you know, whether
you're stepping into thebatter's box, or you're going up
and giving that speech, stopthinking about, you know, all
the technical, you know, workbehind it, you know, just know
that you put in the effort.
And step number four is justlearn and let go, you know, just
go there, do your best.
(08:44):
See what happens, you know, youmight knock it out of the park,
you might, you know, fall flaton your face, but I think that
we need to give ourselves a paton the back, you know, for
getting out of our comfort zoneand trying things, because some
people don't do that, and useeverything as a learning
opportunity, and, and that'skind of my whole deal around
imposter syndrome, self doubt.
(09:04):
Interesting.
So, I'm assuming, you know,coaches often see in us things
that we don't see in ourselves,right?
That's what makes a good coach.
So, I'm assuming when that coachhad you in that room and broke
your heart, he's, he was talkingabout step number one.
You were afraid of something,right?
(09:25):
What was it?
Absolutely.
I think I was afraid of failing.
You know, it probably, I mean,probably maybe it was letting my
dad down or embarrassing myself.
I don't know.
I don't know exactly what it wasat the time, um, but I was
definitely afraid.
And you know how, like whenyou're afraid, you're, you're,
you're kind of like you can'tget out of it.
(09:45):
Your comfort zone and you'relike almost even paralyzed to do
things like I dreaded going topractice back then I don't know
why but I was I was just afraidof failing really.
Okay, so But you then you choseto go to Arizona State and, and
try again.
Do you think you were justafraid of the coach or what?
Why, why did that happen?
What, what was well in be inbetween Arizona State?
(10:08):
I, I spent two years at a juniorcollege.
Ah.
Um, because it wasn't the NILback.
You can't just go from one, theydon't have the transfer portal.
So I think I grew up a littlebit.
One, I was a really young.
you know, so when my kids areold enough, I'd probably want
them to be a little bit oldergoing into college.
So I grew up, I was more mature,and I had a couple pretty good
(10:30):
years in junior college, and Istill love baseball.
For whatever reason, when I gotto Arizona State, or when I took
this scholarship to ArizonaState, I said to myself, you
know, screw it, this is my lastchance.
I don't want to live the rest ofmy life not thinking that I, I,
I gave it my best shot forplaying baseball.
(10:51):
And I think that's what helpedme put aside.
And, um, like I said in stepnumber two, just working hard.
I just try to work my waythrough it.
I figured that if I just keepworking really hard, then it's
going to turn out for me, uh,well, which it did.
Yeah, that's great.
So what, um, what, how did youcome up with this framework?
(11:16):
I don't know.
I just, I just, I just kind of,um, I just said to myself, look,
I'm going to be the first guy onthe field, I'm going to be the
last one to leave.
Nice.
And, I, I, I struggle with acouple things.
I struggle with, uh, fieldingground balls, and I struggle
with hitting curve balls.
So I just practiced that untilI, I just couldn't do it
anymore.
I just, I mean, when I meancan't do it anymore, I, until I
(11:37):
exhausted myself with it.
And then, when it, when it gotto the game time, you know, we
also learned how to, you know,Visualize success, you know,
they taught us that at ArizonaState.
So I would say to myself, okay,you know, I'm playing, I'm at
first base, I'm the startingfirst baseman.
I'm going to visualize myself,if the ball's hit to me,
(11:58):
fielding it successfully andgetting the guy out, or
whatever, right?
And so, um, and I said, I'mgoing to be okay with that,
because I put in so much workand effort, that my reactions or
whatever, it's going to work outfor me.
And so, I mean, that's kind oflike how I built this framework
that I didn't even think aboutfor several years, but I used it
in the business world too, youknow, whether it's through
(12:19):
public speaking or running asales team.
And then I, I, I, You know, whenI came out with my book a couple
of years ago, I just kind of putit all together.
Like this is actually aframework that I had for it.
And it's something that I'veshared with the people I coach
or mentor and, you know, atleast for me and some other
people, I think it's beenhelpful.
Yeah.
(12:39):
You know, I, I think, um, there,there's no doubt, right?
Like these are, are, are, it's agreat framework.
Right.
And working hard and practicingand learning to let go are
really important.
I, you know, I'm curious goingback to the first one though,
about being afraid of something.
I think, uh, I know we talked alittle bit before we started
(13:01):
that I like to run marathons.
Right.
And I, I actually, Yeah.
Now, I realized that I ran onelast year.
I had my, my fastest result,which I was really proud of.
But there's always something Igo through when I get, when I,
when I run the marathon, that I,I almost like mourn a loss.
Right?
And, um, and whether or not I amsuccessful, I don't feel very
(13:26):
different.
Um, if I achieve my goal or not,right?
Like, the result I've noticed,uh, as I've gotten older and all
that, I, I, I don't feel too,um, too excited if I do great
or, or, or not if I don't, well,I, maybe if I, if I don't hit
the goal, I, I think about itmore for sure.
But um, What I do notice is, Imourn the loss because I, I miss
(13:48):
the practice part of it, right?
Like I, I've learned to love thetraining.
And I notice, you know, alongthe way, just going through it
all, the, the practice everyday, getting out, running, doing
drills, you know, running withthe team, you know, doing
different kinds of runs, allthat.
There's just something about it.
You build a discipline and itspreads to all the other areas
(14:08):
of your life.
And before you know it.
You're getting great results inevery area of your life as well,
right?
Isn't it funny how that works?
Yeah, no, I mean, I think youbring up a great point.
Well, first of all, I commendyou on doing marathons Cuz I I
hate running, you know Maybe youknow, but uh, so did I by the
way But, but, but I, so I thinkthat's awesome and that kind of
(14:31):
goes to what I, what I like tocall about like athletic
education, because all thosethings that you mentioned right
there, the discipline,collaboration, you know,
focusing on, I know growthmindset really is, you know,
you're focusing on the processinstead of the end goal, you
know, as far as to get, to getthings done.
And um, I think it's importantwhat you said right there too,
(14:53):
Louie, is that not get too up ordown.
Yeah, you know like not get tooexcited when you win something
But don't beat yourself up toomuch If you don't if you do
fail, you know, try to keep iteven keel And again, I just go
back to rewarding yourself forputting in the effort a quick
little story I have a i've a Ithink I mentioned to you I have
(15:15):
a seven year old daughter and acouple months ago.
We're walking up the hill tocome home and she's got This
little bike race and she's like,daddy, I don't know if I want to
do it because what if I don'twin on?
And I said, look, I don't careif you win.
What I care about is that youpractice and you try hard, and
you do, and you put in your besteffort.
(15:35):
That's all I care about.
You know, I mean, and, and youdo your best.
And so I'm not a fan ofparticipation trophies at all,
but I do love, you know, she,she participated, she went in
this race and she finished inlike fourth place and they gave
her, you know, and she has thispicture of her arms raised, like
she won the fricking Olympics,you know, but I was proud of her
(15:55):
for putting in the effort anddoing her, her, her best.
I'm sure she felt great aboutit, too.
She felt great about it.
I mean, I gotta work with her.
I don't, I don't want her tosettle for fourth place, but you
know, at least she put in the,at least she put in the effort
to, um, and, and, and stoppedworrying about, you know, the
end results.
(16:16):
Focused on the practice like youwere just talking about.
Yeah, what are the mindsets I'veadapted around that?
Adopted around that is, um, totreat like the race itself, you
know, the actual marathon orwhatever race I do as the
reward, right?
For all of the training and, youknow, the practice and the
working hard to get there.
So then, uh, you know, you getto the starting line and I'm
(16:39):
like, all right, well, there'snothing I can do at this point,
right?
The work is in, you know, thehaze in the barn, as we like to
say.
And, um.
So I might as well just enjoythis.
This is my reward.
you know But then I stillmourned the loss of that whole
pro, you know I got to go intothe offseason kind of like uh to
relate it to baseball It's it'sthe offseason there's something
tough about the offseason,right?
You start developing bad habitsand you know little by little
(17:02):
they creep in and you just startchanging You're not feeling good
about yourself and you knowbefore you know, you got to get
back out there Well, I thinkwhat you said About the reward
is same as my step four, learnand let it go.
Right.
Cause you know, you, you just, Idon't necessarily look at it.
As a reward, but maybe I should,you know, because I'm, I'm here
and I get to give thispresentation or I'm, you know,
(17:24):
I've made it to this point, butit's exactly the same thing, you
know, stop thinking about it andgo for it.
And then you have to go back.
I manage our sales team here atlearn it.
And I'm big on the fundamentalsand foundation because yeah, you
get in the bad habits, you know,and you need to, you need to do
that work.
So I, I think that, uh, whetheror not you love it, I think, I
(17:47):
think it's so important to beable to, um, focus on the
fundamentals and, and getyourself back in shape, get, get
back in that mindset too.
Yeah.
So let's talk a little bit aboutlearning.
First of all, I got to commendyou man to be a CEO of any
company for 26 years.
That says a lot for a company tosurvive that long.
And also I think it's a, Icommend you on how you've gone
(18:09):
about it to start from, youknow, the front desk as a
receptionist and work your wayup when, you know, Your, your
father started the company,which is another commendable
thing, right?
As a father, we all kind ofdream of building a multi
generational company.
So that, that's pretty awesome.
And I'm sure you probably dreamabout passing it on to, or maybe
not, but I'll let you answerthat.
(18:31):
But, uh, yeah, I just want tocommend you on all that, but
also ask you to share a littlebit about what it is and what
you do.
So learn it is a live learningplatform.
So essentially we're instructorled training company and we
really focus all B to B and wefocus on mostly soft skills,
which I don't like that termsoft skills, human skills, you
(18:51):
know, everything on, uh, havingdifficult conversations,
collaboration, coaching, youknow, developing new managers,
companies turn to us whenthey're, they're upscaling new
managers and people are goingfrom individual contributors.
There's two new managers andthey need to a new skill set or,
you know, just building strongerteams.
And yeah, I do think it's great.
(19:12):
You know that I've, I love learnit.
I've, and I think what I lovemost about it is the, the team
I've been able to develop overthe years.
I have great talent who, um, youknow, come and go.
Some people have been here for along time.
Some people are here for threeor four years.
That's what kind of keeps itexciting and always trying to
evolve and change.
You know, it is kind of.
(19:33):
It is different.
I, in some sense, I wish I wouldbe more involved in other
organizations, you know, becausethat people have different
experiences, but what's fun forme is I get to see behind the
curtains, Louis, of all thesephenomenal companies, you know,
small, medium and large abouthow they lead teams, how they
lead organizations, and it'sbeen a great experience overall,
(19:55):
and I'm involved in real estateand other things too, but Yeah,
a lot of people are always like,well, how, how do you, how have
you been there so long?
And as far as my dad, he neverreally worked at LearnIt.
He came up with this idea, likea lot of great entrepreneurs.
He went and took a classsomewhere in the 90s, was trying
to figure out how to digitizeour portfolio for real estate.
He hated the class he took.
(20:16):
He said, there's gotta be abetter way to do it.
That's where he came up with theidea of LearnIt.
And I just didn't want to lethim down.
You know, my parents, mom anddad gave me a great life.
And I, I wanted to prove to himthat I can contribute and I, uh,
just happened to fall in lovewith LearnIt and the learning
and development world, which Inever even considered, you know,
things happen for a reason, Iguess.
(20:38):
And here I am.
Interesting.
And you, so you, you wrote abook about it.
You have a podcast now about it.
How, how, uh, you sharingbasically the services you
provide through that orexplaining your frameworks or.
Yeah.
In my book, uh, the learn it allleader.
I, I was lucky.
(20:59):
I played for three Hall of Famebaseball coaches, you know, at
Pepperdine, Junior College, andArizona State.
And, and funny enough, the, thefourth coach, which I don't talk
about as much, just won, uh, mysenior year at Arizona State, I
played for Pat Murphy, who justwon National League Manager of
the Year.
Oh, wow.
You know, so.
Fortunately, I, I, I've taken alot of these lessons that I
(21:21):
learned on the field throughalso from my father, and it's
helped really mold my leadershipstyle.
And so I talk about a learn itall mentality, you know, doing
and being.
The first half of the book isabout, you know, the mindset,
you know, traits that I thinkyou need.
The second half of the book isactually doing, you know, how to
implement some of those traitsand, um, you know, to be a
(21:44):
successful leader and, and Ishare a lot of stories, you
know, whether it's arounddecision making.
I threw a party for Guns andRoses one time.
And so I talk about, you know,some decision making there.
Uh, and also some of the, youknow, um, Great stories of some
of the employees that I've hadand what I've learned leading
teams over the years and that's,that's pretty much it.
(22:05):
I mean, I didn't get a MBA fromHarvard or anything like that.
Those are great, but, uh, Iguess my story is really, it's
like, if I can do it, you can doit too.
I just think that you need tobe, uh, constantly wanting to
grow and evolve and improve,which I'm sure a lot of your
listeners are.
That's why they're listening toa podcast like this.
Yeah, so what it how wouldexactly would you define?
(22:29):
I mean you've kind of explainedit But I'm wondering if you have
Like you like you outlined anice framework for overcoming
your pasta syndrome the same forthe learn it all mindset So what
I look at we talked about thisat the beginning, you know a
know it all You know somebodywho comes to the game.
You got it all figured out.
You have all the answers, right?
You're not open to changing.
It's my way or the highway and Ithink All of us could be know it
(22:52):
alls in certain aspects, likeI'm a dad, sometimes I'm very
much a know it all, like it'stime to go to bed, there's no
discussion around that, right?
Yeah, yeah.
Now, you take the learn it allmentality, and I wanna, look,
learn it all mentality doesn'tmean you're just constantly
learning all the time.
I mean, you have to implementsome of the work that you do.
Uh, this guy that I had on myshow, David Katz, had a great
(23:14):
saying, you know, learningwithout doing is treason, right?
But, um, So you have to learn itall mentality.
I think those traits are, youknow, you've got to be humble.
You gotta, you gotta know thatyou don't have all the answers
and be able to not, not beafraid to reach out to people,
to, to get help.
You gotta have integrity.
I think it's important to lead.
You think it would go on unheardof, but, uh, it's super
(23:38):
important.
You lead with integrity.
You know, you have to have thecourage to, you know, make bold
decisions and try differentthings.
And I think you also have to becurious.
Um, Yeah, I think you couldlearn something from everybody
and there's always room forimprovement again.
And so I think great leaders arejust curious and when I refer to
leaders, Louie.
(23:59):
You don't need to run a hundred,there's a hundred people that
learn it, right?
So you don't have to run ahundred person team.
You don't even, you know, youcould be a great leader as a
parent, individual contributoror as a coach.
I think leadership starts withleading yourself first and then
leading others.
So, I mean, that's basically mywhole thing about, um, having a
learn it all mentality.
(24:20):
Yeah, that's good.
How do, how do you, uh, with,with, like, curiosity?
Uh, I'm curious.
There you go, you're curious.
Yeah, you know, this issomething I try to really focus
on.
We, we have a lot of biases,right?
Absolutely.
And that can affect ourcuriosity, right?
We see it with, uh, I mean, wejust You know, with elections,
(24:41):
for example, politics, you know,what have you, we, we, we have
this, um, this bias that doesn'tallow us to see the other side
and, and, and, you know, so how,how can we use curiosity to
intentionally help us, um, youknow, see our biases and maybe,
uh, overcome them.
So I think it's a good, I thinkthat's a good question.
(25:03):
I mean, one of the things thatI've done and don't challenge me
too much on this, cause I don'tknow all the names of them, but,
but I've studied a lot ofbiases.
Yeah, you know, I've, I've, I'vestudied whether it's unconscious
bias or, or anchoring.
I'm just very fascinated by, uh,the behavioral science around
biases.
And, and I think one way to getbetter at it is to just be
intentional and thinking about,um, Confirmation, like for
(25:29):
instance, confirmation bias issomething that I would, I would
struggle with a lot earlier onin my career where I would go to
people who I knew would agreewith me, right?
I'd ask them, what do you thinkabout this?
And I knew they agree with me asI've gotten older, more mature
and better.
I've, you know, over the last 15years, I've really made sure
(25:49):
I've built up a diverse team andbring in people with different
opinions and differentstrengths.
When I ask them questions, like,what do you think about this,
and, or if they bring ideas tome, because you know sometimes
in your head you think toyourself, okay, this just, this
is just not going to work.
I'll just shut this off rightaway.
This is stupid.
(26:10):
Now I'm kind of like, I'll sitback and say, okay, well, maybe
there's something to this.
And I'll be surprised at howmany times that just by being
open and listening and moreadaptable, I've actually
implemented, you know, thingsthat maybe I would have never
thought of.
And I think when you do that,especially leading an
organization, people will cometo you with more ideas because
(26:32):
they feel like you're open, um,to hear, bring out what the, now
I don't go forward with all ofthem, but that's, but that's
just kind of what I've done.
I, I've been intentional on, onlearning more about biases and,
and trying to get better atthem, um, whenever possible.
Yeah, yeah, that's somethingI've been fascinated by a lot
(26:53):
lately, too.
I remember, um, I don't know ifyou ever listened to The
Knowledge Project with ShaneParrish.
It's pretty popular.
Love it.
Yeah, isn't it a great podcast?
I think it's great.
He's amazing.
Oh, man, it's awesome.
And, uh, he had one on biases, Ithink he even wrote a book about
it, uh, on like mental modelsand biases.
I, I've read those too, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
So, uh, I'm, I'm, with, withyour studies and, uh, on it, you
(27:16):
know, are there, are thereothers that you really see are
just incredibly dangerous?
You've already mentioned, youknow, confirmation bias, you
know, others, and, and what elsedo you do?
I would say, I thinkconfirmation bias is a big one.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, I, I love the book.
Influenced by Robert Cini.
If you, if you Yeah.
(27:36):
To me.
And that's like one of the Yeah.
Oh, you did?
Yeah.
We'll have to talk about thatmore time.
Yeah.
I, I lo he, yeah.
So, um, there's all kinds of, ofdifferent ones.
I th I think.
Ageism is a, is a big bias tobe, to be totally honest.
Right.
I mean, I, I, I was coachingthis guy the other day.
Um, he's, he's awesome.
He's the sales leader, you know,he's probably 32 and he was
(27:59):
talking about, you know, hiring,bringing on some new people and
he's like, well, this one guy,he's, he looks good on paper,
but he's probably, Close to sixyears old and I'm like, don't
judge a book by a cover, youknow, also you need to be open
to have to bring in differentperspectives and different, you
know, whether it's a Gen Z orsomebody maybe close to 60 don't
(28:22):
let those biases affect yourdecision making, you know, so I
think that I think that thatthat is a really big, big one as
well.
Yeah, you know, one that I'vebeen, uh, Affected by half my
life.
Now it feels like uh, is recencybias, right?
Okay.
I mean, so many times.
Totally, totally.
Yeah.
God and I, I really strugglewith that.
(28:43):
I mean, I am still so affected.
I I still have so many limitingbeliefs around 2008.
As you know, I'm a real estateguy.
You come from a real estatefamily too.
I mean, anybody who's in realestate in 2008 has to, that will
be ingrained in the And, uh, andI wonder if you know of any
good.
Strategies for helping toovercome some of that because
every time I see something thatgoes wrong.
(29:04):
I'm like, all right, here we goagain Oh shit in that.
Yeah, it you miss opportunitybecause of it, right?
Yeah, and I think that I thinkthat that's why i'm glad you
brought that up because I thinkthat that's why I brought up
Robert Cialdini because he talksabout the recency bias, right?
You know, you buy a bmw and theneverything you see is Yeah.
Right?
And I, I, I mean, I don't haveany specific hacks and I, I do
(29:28):
feel for you, uh, my familylost, I mean, a lot in 2008.
I mean, our, I mean, if youGoogle Lembe family and you look
at it, but hey, it's alllearning experience, right?
Right, right, right.
It's all learning experience.
And I think that, um, I thinkthat what's important to try to
maybe get through the uh,recency bias is maybe look at
(29:50):
the whole picture, you know, tryto recognize that you're doing
that.
You're, you're just focusing on,okay, well, maybe I'm just
jumping to conclusions becausethis has happened now, you know,
so maybe look at the wholepicture and what things are
like, um, because yeah, theytalk about it.
Robert Chaldean talks about it.
You talk, you, you hear about anairplane crash and you think all
(30:10):
the planes are going to crash.
But if you look at, uh, or notall the planes, but you know
it's going to happen more often.
But if you look at thestatistics, you know, maybe in
this case flying is more safethan, than driving.
And maybe even though whathappened in 2009, 2008 with the
real estate market, um, do somestudying and seeing that Maybe
real estate investing is stillfantastic, right?
(30:33):
You know, and the way to go, butmaybe also learn to diversify.
So you don't put all your eggsin one, in one basket.
So, um, the other one I like is,is kind of like the anchoring
bias, you know, um, where you,you, you, a dollar amount comes
out and you, and you reallythink, okay, it's worth this.
But, um, you know, uh, that,that's one I've always struggled
(30:54):
with as well.
I'm like, okay.
You know, somebody will say,well, don't worry, Damon, this
isn't going to cost you 100,000, you know, and they give you
a proposal that we, uh, at like25, 000, you automatically
think, Oh, that's much better.
But that's kind of a trick withthe anchoring at the hundred
thousand, right?
You know, so I think it's prettycool, you know, whether it's a
knowledge project or Dan RLE, ifthat's how you pronounce his
(31:17):
name or Robert Cialdini, there'sjust a lot of research out there
that's really fascinating.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, we all, weall suffered from anchoring
biases with, with the recentinflation, right?
I mean, we're all, I think as acountry, as a collective, we got
pissed off when we're going andpaying, every time we go into
the grocery store, we're payingmore and more for a dozen eggs,
(31:38):
right?
For a dozen eggs, yeah.
Like, whoa.
That won the election, probablythis year.
Very likely, right?
And you get, you get used to oneprice, the next time you go in
it's higher and the next timeyou, you know, you're finally
giving in to that and it's evenmore.
It's like, whoa.
Crazy.
Yeah, so that's a good educationon anchoring right there.
Yeah.
Um, Damian, let me ask you onemore, uh, about, with, with that
(32:04):
growth mindset, the learn it allmindset, I'm curious what your
thoughts are on tech and AI.
I'm a huge fan of it and, um, I,I think that, uh, when it comes
to AI, you have, I guess youreally have two choices.
You could put your head in thesand and just think it's going
(32:26):
to go away and then you're goingto get left behind or you can,
you know, go all in and I don't.
You know, I, I don't thinkpeople will necessarily lose
their jobs.
Some people will to AI, but Ithink for the most partly, I
think you're going to lose yourjob to people who are power
users when it comes to AI, youknow, whether, and so my
(32:50):
recommendation for yourlisteners and I preach at learn
at all time, I probably drive mystaff nuts with, uh, I'm not,
I'm not a super technical guy.
But I'm super into learningabout AI and leveraging AI,
whether it's chat, GPT orsuperhuman or any, some of these
different platforms or apps.
(33:11):
Um, and I just think you shouldroll up your sleeves again and
just get heavily involved.
It's never going to, that'swhat's great about learning.
It's never going to replace someof the skills like empathy, um,
um, Communication, you know, Ithink you're always going to
need some of these human skills.
But AI is also going to givesome of these smaller businesses
(33:32):
like Learnit an opportunity tocompete with these massive
companies.
You know, I can't afford to hire30 marketing people, but I can
learn how to use, uh, ChatGPT orClaude and say, and create
personas and say, help medevelop X or help me develop Y.
So I think you really need toget immersed into AI.
(33:53):
And I also think that you can'trely on it solely, meaning don't
go in.
Create something in chat GPT andjust send it out.
I think you need to make sureit's correct and you need to,
you need to, you need to add ahuman element to it, but I think
you're, uh, you're going to missthe boat if you're not, um, if
(34:13):
you're not If you're resistantto it, I think you need to adapt
and evolve.
What do you think?
Yeah, I, um, I'm, I'm so curiousabout this right now.
And I spent a lot of timelearning about AI, using it now,
uh, and everything.
I, I think about how can I dothings with AI?
(34:37):
Because I, I do think if wedon't Adopt it.
Yeah, that's where the realdanger lies, but it also the
more I use it the more scared Iget Because it is amazing what
it can do, right?
It's crazy I mean it is and Iforgot what I was listening to I
(34:58):
think it was an interview withMark Zuckerberg Where he said
that there was some AI I don'tknow if it was meta AI or
something where it was writingcode to prevent coders from,
like, hacking it or something.
So like, you know what I mean?
That's some scary stuff.
Yeah.
(35:18):
So, it's one I have a lot ofmixed feelings about, but yet
I'm using and I will be a poweruser.
Um, so I agree with you there,you know?
I'm also reading now a greatbook called The AI Leader.
I'm only about halfway throughit.
Have you heard of this book yet?
Who wrote it?
Jeff Woods, I believe.
You just stole my answer.
(35:40):
That's what I was gonna Hisepisode on my podcast came out
today.
Oh, you had him.
It's funny cuz I'm gonna I wasjust thinking I'm gonna reach
out to him and see if I can gethim on.
Oh, excellent I'll introduce youto him.
Excellent.
Thank you.
Oh, great book.
Okay.
And what I, and what I like,that's amazing, by the way.
Um, well, I know he spoke atGoBundance maybe, I think,
(36:03):
right?
Okay.
But anyways, um, what he talksabout is don't use it just for
writing emails.
Um, I have AI as your thoughtpartner, which I totally agree
with.
I've used AI to help me build.
So, I think that that's a greatbook.
(36:25):
I'll have to come up with a newone for when you ask me about
favorite book.
And, uh, which I will.
And, um, I just think it's agreat book.
Okay.
And it's great for somebodywho's not super technical too,
you know, a senior businessleader.
So make AI your thought partnerand you be the thought leader
and make it the thought partner.
How funny is that?
Yeah.
AI driven leader it's called.
(36:46):
The AI driven literature.
That's right.
Yep.
I just started it.
I'm probably a quarter of theway through.
It's uh, yeah, it's funny.
It's awesome Um, and itdefinitely gives you a different
perspective altogether.
There you go Jeff.
There's another plug for you Soyeah, and you know the other
time along those Lines, I, Ispend a lot of time thinking
about the opportunity in, um, itwith AI, like where will, you
(37:09):
know, I think there will be alot of job displacement at
first, but we will evolve andit'll probably create even more
jobs and more opportunity,right?
Um, and as we figure it out,because it's not the first
breaking technology.
Look, it's, uh, we, we've hadthree other industrial
revolutions, right?
And, and they've all, they'veall created jobs somehow.
(37:31):
That's right.
And, um, But people are sayingthat AI is bigger than
electricity.
It's bigger than printing press.
Hopefully it goes in the samedirection.
And hopefully it helps curecancer or self driving cars or
whatever it is.
I don't know.
There needs to be governance.
(37:52):
But again, I just think us asindividuals I, you know, and
leaders, I think we need toembrace it and incorporate it
into our organization if wedon't want to become irrelevant,
you, I think you need to know AIand we're beating the drum here,
but to be relevant, I think youhave to immerse yourself in it.
Yeah, totally.
You know, um, I think one of theother great opportunities with
(38:15):
it is connectivity, humanconnectivity.
Um, that, that will not bereplaced.
And I hear a lot of talk aboutwhat you were saying before
around empathy and such, uh,communications.
But I, I think at the end of theday, you know, there, Like we've
hit bottom with the work fromhome.
People do go, are going back tothe office.
People are going to events, youknow, uh, and maybe not at the
(38:39):
same level as before, right?
Maybe hybrid will be the case,but you know, I'm a, I'm
personally looking for an officeagain.
I gave up my office about a yearand a half ago and I'm hating
it.
I want to get back.
So I, I think that humanconnectivity is big.
I go to a lot more events nowthan I did before, just to
connect with new people.
And I think that that keeps isgoing to keep growing.
So anything around connectivity.
(39:00):
You know, connecting humans, uh,will be a major, major
opportunity that AI can'tdisrupt, really, so.
Yeah, I, I totally agree.
I mean, uh, this young woman whoworked for me, um, you know,
she, she was so excited for workfrom home, work from home, you
know, and, and.
Yeah.
And, uh, she ended up moving toNew York.
(39:22):
And she took a four or five dayin the in office job and because
we just had lunch and she saidI'm just tired of working from
home and being by myself all thetime.
Yeah, you know, I appreciatedthe flexibility But I want to be
around people I want to go tohappy hour and go to events and
do things So for a real estateguy who owns an office building
in San Francisco Unfortunatelythat right before Cove it we
(39:44):
purchased it.
I'd like to see People come backinto the office a little bit
more often as well.
I think I think I think I thinkthe human connection is is good.
That's never going to bereplaced by AI.
Um, I just released a We're justcoming out with a series on our
for free on our podcast the 11essentials 11 essential skills
and it's all about listeningempathy self awareness human
(40:07):
decision making all the skillsthat you're going to have to
have you know, you know in um,That will make you uh
irreplaceable Yeah, I'm gonnacheck that out for sure.
Um, and if you, I'll put linksin the show notes when we get,
when we air this as well.
I'll send it to you, yeah.
So, uh, well, we're actuallyaround that time where we should
(40:30):
probably get into our worldfamous Wayfinder 4.
It's alright if you want to useone of them again.
No, I got a new one now.
Okay, good.
So, uh, so give us a favorite.
Favorite book that we alreadystarted?
Favorite anything.
Activity, book, um, uh, show,you know, whatever.
I would say, I would say I'vebeen, I love reading books, but
(40:53):
I just started listening to AlPacino's, um, autobiography on,
uh, and it's awesome.
Is it?
Oh my gosh, it's awesome.
So, if you are even slightly afan of Al Pacino, go pick up, go
pick up, I think it's calledSunny Boy.
So, um, that's, that's a greatone.
Great sales book that I love iscalled The Jolt Effect.
(41:15):
I actually had Matt Dixon on it.
On my show, he wrote thechallenger sales as well, but
it's all about why, um, peopleend up at indecision, which kind
of goes back to some of thosebiases we talked about, but the
jolt effects a great, um, bookif you're in sales or you lead a
sales team, but if you'relooking for a great
autobiography, please check outAl Pacino.
It's awesome.
(41:35):
Okay, cool.
Does he narrate?
That's the best part about it.
Oh, I love that.
He narrates it, his voice, hechuckles when he tells his
stories.
I can't, I can't even do itjustice, Louis.
Okay.
You know, it's one of thosethings where if you're out
walking the dog or, you know,you just get, you just get
absorbed in listening to himtalk, you know.
Yeah.
And he's just frickin awesome.
(41:57):
I love listening toautobiographies when the Person
reads it and they're good andengaging like Matthew
McConaughey's green lights.
Yeah, I'm sure you've heardlisten to oh my god Fantastic.
Yeah.
No, I've seen him on a bunch ofpodcasts Talking about his book,
but he's got the voice like AlPacino, right?
Yeah, very distinctive.
(42:18):
I Listened to a couple bookswritten by Kevin Hart and he's
hilarious.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, so yeah, I was listeningto Kevin Hart book and I was
like laughing out loud and Walk,walk in that, people thought
there's been wrong with me.
Yeah.
But.
But check out the Al Pacinobook.
Okay, okay, I got it.
I'm gonna, I'm excited actually.
I'm gonna probably download itright after this.
(42:38):
Yeah.
Alright, how about a hack, likea life hack that you use all the
time?
So what I would say, you know, Iwant to combine a routine with
a, um, with an app.
You know, so I, I, I'm a bigbeliever in, in reading, you
know, a lot of times people willsay, well, I don't have time to
read, but yet they could, theycould list off like 15 shows
that they're, they're watchingon Netflix.
(42:59):
Right.
So I, I just think get in thehabit of, I read 20 minutes
every morning, 20, 25.
But it's every morning, uh,different books, and if you do
that, you end up with like 20,30 books a year.
You know, having a 7 year oldand a 3 year old, I don't have a
lot of time, but from 5.
30 to 6, I can knock out, youknow, and it doesn't matter how
(43:20):
many pages I read, I just readit.
Now, the, the hack that I dowith it to try to retain more is
I use an app called ReadWise.
Are you familiar with that?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I haven't used it.
And I, I read on the, yeah, I,I, I, cause you know, when I use
physical books, I highlight itand I'll never go back and look
at it again.
(43:40):
So a lot of business books Iread on, uh, Kindle and I
highlight it, import it intoReadwise, which, and it then
pings me, uh, once or twice aday and it just, it's like, and
I'll just read the, the five,um, highlights, you know, it
helps reinforce what It helpsreinforce the learning.
So that's, that's kind of myhack, because again, Oh, nice.
(44:01):
You know, if, if you read abunch of books, you know, for
your listeners out there, yougotta, you gotta connect it to,
to, if it's a business book,connect it like, how is it gonna
be relevant for my particularwork or life, you know?
And I think Readwise helps me dothat because it brings back some
of the highlights.
Oh, that's cool.
I've heard that one before.
I haven't used it yet.
I, I need to.
(44:22):
Yeah, it's good.
What about a piece of advice foryour younger self?
I think a piece of advice, youknow, we kind of talked about
this with the, um, you know,around the imposter syndrome and
everything like that.
But I think a piece of advice,uh, for, from my young, what I
would tell my younger self is,let's say that, uh, you're
somebody and, and you reallywant to apply for a job, but you
(44:45):
look at the job description andmaybe.
We don't meet all therequirements on it.
Go for it anyways, you know,just go apply.
What's the worst thing that canhappen?
Um, again, I've, I've coached alot of people and I've, you
know, even hired people whodidn't meet all the
requirements, but a lot ofpeople don't give themselves a
(45:06):
chance to fail.
So I guess that's my thing ofsaying, learn how to get
comfortable with failure.
Um, earlier on in my, in your,in your.
Career.
I wish I would have done thatearlier instead of being a
little too safe at at sometimes.
Yeah, you know, I'm wonderingabout that.
That's good advice, right?
And I've tried that.
I'm wondering on the other sideof that as a hiring manager,
(45:28):
right?
What what do you see in aperson's resume or application
that will that will still grabyour attention?
Even if they don't have all thequalifications?
Maybe some of the activitiesthat they've done, you know,
maybe, um, if they've beeninvolved in different groups, I,
(45:52):
I know, I mean, I'm not a bigfan and maybe this is bad, but
you know, if somebody is jobhopping every eight to 12 months
and, you know, not saying I wantsomebody to be there, uh, 10
years at companies, but I'm alsobiased.
Let's be honest.
I'm biased towards sports.
So if, if somebody playedcollege sports, if you look at
(46:12):
my sales team, I got eight salesreps.
Six of them are D1 athletes, youknow, uh, swimmers, baseball,
uh, uh, one in tennis.
So, uh, that, that's somethingthat grabs me when it comes to
resumes.
If somebody is, uh, you know, isa musician or they played sports
or they've done some, someinteresting things, right?
(46:33):
So, I've always been a bigbeliever.
Louis, when possible, hire foraptitude and attitude over
experience, you know, not for aCOO position, but bring people
in early in their career or whohave the kind of mindset where
they could learn and grow.
So that, that's why I broughtthat up where it's like, get in
(46:53):
there and apply and see whathappens.
Yeah.
Okay.
What about, um, uh, a bigopportunity or a limiting
belief?
Just pick one and run with it.
I was going to say AI, and Ithink the big opportunity, uh,
for my business, for yourbusiness is leveraging AI.
(47:18):
And at LearnIt, we're buildingout some really cool things, uh,
from AI habit coaches to, um,Ways to help us build better
content.
And so I think that there's uh,It's really still early enough
to be a a front runner in yourIndustry and in leveraging AI.
(47:38):
Yeah, you know, uh as youmentioned that I'm thinking like
with your company I wouldimagine There's a really big
opportunity If you're teaching,you know, I know you don't like
the term, but we're going to useit anyway, soft skills, right?
And a lot of that revolvesaround dealing with other
humans.
We essentially now have to learnhow to interact with AI as well,
(48:00):
the AI bots, right?
So I would imagine there's ahuge opportunity there.
Yeah, I mean, we have, uh, uh,we, we have, uh, different, uh,
workshops, classes, AI forleaders.
Cause essentially we're tellingpeople you need to look, say
you're managing a team of.
Well, of 13, now you're managinga team of 14, you have 13 humans
(48:23):
and you have ai, you know?
Yeah.
And so you have the, the, so howdo you, how, how do you
collaborate and, and how do you,uh, get your team members to
adopt and, and leverage ai?
That, that's a big thing, whichall starts at the senior
leadership level.
We don't have time to talk aboutall that, but No, a absolutely.
I think it's a, I think it's a,a big, not only.
(48:44):
Does it help us on the softskills side, because that,
that's very important, but alsothe workshops that we do on how
to incorporate AI into your teamand deal with some of those
fears that people have and adoptit in your organization.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The, uh, you know, the, um, I, Ithink, uh, I have a good friend
(49:07):
who's an AI engineer.
Actually.
He does those voice recording,you know, the, the, the
telephone programs.
You know what I mean?
You press one for this and he'sbeen work, he's been an engineer
on that stuff for.
20, 30, 40 years, you know, he'sprobably 10 years older than me.
So I'm guessing like 40 and he'sone of the leaders in, in this
space in the world, really.
(49:28):
And now with AI, he's got a fullstaff that works for him, right?
He's a product guy and, and, butthey're all AI, right?
It's really only like twohumans.
And what he does, he's got allthese different AI bots that he
manages, right?
I mean, it must be a hundred.
Cause he says basically forevery time you press one, that's
(49:49):
an instruction from one AI bot.
to talk to another one.
So you got AI talking to anotherAI to talk to another.
So you, you now have a hierarchyof, of AI.
Yeah.
It, which is just kind of blowsthe mind.
Right.
So I, it may be more that 13people that you're meeting with,
uh, may not just be 14 with theone AI, but it may end up being,
(50:11):
you know, 26.
Right.
And well, it's, it's, it'sprobably.
Still 14, but that taking on agigantic role in, in, in, well,
you can call it 26.
What I'm saying is, yeah, that'swhat, that's what I'm saying.
That's why I think, you know,the guy downstairs in the office
downstairs has a plumbingcompany and I, and I call him
cause I live around here and hisfrigging phone service is
(50:33):
awesome.
And it was all AI.
It was all, it was, it was allAI.
And I told him that.
Yeah.
And he was like, this is how Iget, I'm able to compete with.
Some of these large companiesbecause I can't afford 10 people
anymore, but, um, and again,yes, so that could hurt with,
you know, jobs for other people,but it gives him an opportunity
to compete because he'sleveraging, he's leveraging AI.
(50:58):
And quite frankly, for somepeople, they wouldn't even
realize that they were talkingto AI.
Yeah.
Yeah, I know.
It's, it's that good now.
Yeah.
Well, Damon, this has been a lotof fun.
If, uh, people want to learnmore about you, about LearnIt,
uh, perhaps, you know, hire youand your, uh, your team to come
in and help them with theirbusiness.
How can they go about doingthis?
(51:20):
I would say first connect withme on LinkedIn, uh, Damon.
Let me on LinkedIn.
Uh, please check out my podcast.
The, the Learn it All podcast.
Louis probably should get you onthere if you're in interested.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Uh, go to learn it.com and ifyou find a class that you like,
whether it's emotionalintelligence, Excel, or I don't
know, whatever's on there, uh,send me a message on LinkedIn.
(51:42):
I'll give you a free class.
You know, a free live class.
They're worth 250 bucks, but,uh, come check it out.
And so those are really the bestplaces.
I would just say, start with,uh, Damon on, on LinkedIn.
And, uh, Please check out theLearn It All podcast.
Yeah.
I'm definitely going to checkout your podcast.
Uh, it sounds like you've had alot of great guests and, uh,
it's right up my alley.
(52:02):
So, um, thank you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, thanks for having me.
I really enjoyed the, I reallyenjoyed the, the questions and
conversation.
Likewise.
Thank you.
We hope you've enjoyed TheWayfinder Show.
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(52:24):
more authentic and excitinglives.
We'll catch you on the nextepisode.
Go for it.
Anyways, you know, just goapply.
What's the worst thing that canhappen?
Um, again, I've, I've coached alot of people and I've, you
know, even hired people whodidn't meet all the
requirements, but a lot ofpeople don't give themselves a
chance to fail.
So I guess that's my thing ofsaying, learn how to get
comfortable with failure.
(00:21):
Um, earlier on in my, uh, inyour, in your career, I wish I
would have done that earlierinstead of being a little too
safe at, at some times.
Welcome to The Wayfinder Showwith Luis Hernandez, where
(00:41):
guests discuss the why and howof making changes that lead them
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Our goal is to dig deep andprovide not only knowledge, but
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you want to be.
Come join us and find the way toyour dream life.
(01:13):
Welcome back to The WayfinderShow.
I'm your host, Luis Hernandez.
And today I'm here with DamonLembe.
Damon is the CEO of Learn It, aglobal training company that has
empowered over 2 millionindividuals through workplace
learning.
He's the author of the Learn ItAll Leader and the host of the
Learn It All podcast.
(01:34):
Damian champions curiosity andcontinuous growth as keys to
effective leadership and he'shere to talk about that today.
Damon, welcome to the Wayfindershow.
Thanks for having me, buddy.
I'm honored to be here.
Yeah, thank you.
It's an honor to have you.
I understand you had a prettysuccessful baseball career, uh,
early in life.
So let's get to know you alittle bit.
(01:55):
Tell us about that.
So, the short version is, I, Igrew up, I grew up in the San
Francisco Bay Area, and uh,growing up was all about sports,
baseball, football, basketball.
By the time I was a sophomore inhigh school, I realized that if
I was going to play college orpro sports, my ticket was
baseball.
Um, I enjoyed basketball, but Iwas a little, you know, a little
(02:17):
too short, didn't have a greatjump shot.
And so I went All in inbaseball.
Worked, worked out pretty wellfor me.
I was a high school allamerican, and I had my first
really big decision, uh, mysenior year, I was drafted by
the Atlanta Braves, this wasback in 1995, so I'm, I'm kind
of dating myself here, and um, Ihad a full ride to Pepperdine
(02:39):
University down in Malibu, whichunfortunately is going through
all those terrible fires, andum, It was one of my first big
leadership lessons.
I really bought into what thecoach at Arizona, at Pepperdine,
Andy Lopez, you know, he hadthis moonshot goal that we're
going to win the college worldseries, even though Pepperdine
is this little 2, 500 personschool.
So I went that direction and Iplayed at Pepperdine.
(03:01):
I ended up getting hurt thereleft.
And then I ended up at Arizonastate and my wife likes to say
my glory day.
I hit a homerun in the, uh,College World Series.
Now, Louie, the funny thing is,the year I left, Pepperdine won
the College World Series.
So it shows you, you can setmoonshot goals and, um, and, and
(03:21):
make them happen.
Even, you know, when you getyour team together and everybody
Pulls in the same direction.
So, uh, it was a great learningopportunity all my, uh, baseball
career.
Yeah, wow.
So it ended in college then?
Yeah.
Because of the injury?
No, it didn't.
I mean, I, I got hurt atPepperdine.
Really, and we could talk aboutthis, I, I, I kind of had
imposter syndrome, you know, andlimiting beliefs and, and
(03:44):
doubted myself.
And it took me a while to getthrough it.
But I got to Arizona State.
I had a great year there.
And, uh, I was getting ready toget drafted again.
I was projected to be picked upin the 8th, through the 8th to
the 12th round, most likely bythe Philadelphia Phillies.
But you know, things happen.
I didn't get drafted, forwhatever reason.
And here I was, 22 years old.
(04:07):
My whole life, my identity, wasto be a baseball player.
That's all I thought about.
And so, it was basically overwith for me.
So, I didn't, I was kind ofunsure, are my skills even
transferable in the businessworld?
I was lucky that I came from afamily, um, a big real estate
company in, in the Bay Area, andwe had multiple different
(04:27):
businesses, but one of thebusinesses was this, uh,
computer training company thatwas just getting started, called
Learnit, and I started there,um, June of 1995 as the
receptionist and I did it for acouple of reasons.
One, I, like I said, I wasintimidated, didn't know if I
had the skills and number two,it was a family business and I
(04:50):
didn't want it to be this guythat, you know, my dad put me in
as like a senior level position.
I wanted to roll up my sleevesand show people that I could
actually contribute and do thework.
So I started off as areceptionist, worked my way
through and here we are.
I've been the CEO for going onabout 26 years.
Wow.
(05:10):
Wow.
Um, let's backtrack a littlebit.
The, you said you had impostersyndrome when you were in
college.
Yeah.
What was that like?
So, I always played with, youknow, the best of the best
everywhere, right?
You know, in summer leagues andeverything.
But when I got to Pepperdine,for whatever reason, everybody
was as good as me.
(05:31):
And, you know, I was 17 yearsold and I wasn't sure, uh, if I
was good enough or if Ibelonged.
And what am I Favorite storiesto tell is I went into my first
player coach meeting, you know,like a performance review with
Andy Lopez, the head coach.
And, you know, before I, rightwhen I sat down, he said to me,
(05:52):
you know, Damon, he sat forwardand said, when we recruited you,
we thought it was that you wouldbe a middle.
A lineup hitter, a great thirdbaseman and, you know, have an
opportunity to be a, a strong Done professional baseball
player.
And he crossed his arms, helooked at me and he is like,
son, we made a mistake.
You just don't have the talentto play D one baseball.
(06:15):
And then he just shut up.
And sat back and you know,Louis, I thought to myself, Oh
my gosh, I mean, how do I getout of here?
Right?
You know, how do I just go home,you know, get on a bus and go
home?
And before I even had a chanceto respond, he sat forward
again.
He pointed at me and he said,that is not what we think of
you.
The problem is, yeah.
That's what's in your head.
(06:36):
That's what you think ofyourself.
We see, our hitting coach seesyour ability.
He sees your talent.
But you need to get out of yourown head because we can't do
that for you.
You have to overcome whatever itis that's bugging you.
And, and, and limiting you.
And make it happen.
Otherwise, you're not going tobe successful here.
(06:57):
I would like to say Iimmediately left his office and,
and turned things around.
I didn't.
I, like I said, I had some kindof freak accident, um, and a
collision.
Uh, and I left Pepperdine, andthen I went to Arizona State.
And, uh, Louis, a lot of myfriends said, Look, don't go to
Arizona State.
They're gonna have 17 guystrying out for first base.
(07:20):
You know, why don't you go to asmall school, finish your
baseball career, and, you know,move on with your life.
And I said to myself, This is mylast chance and I kind of built
up like a, a framework that I'veused for my whole life, you
know, when it comes to, youknow, overcoming imposter
syndrome and it's really, youknow, step number one is looking
(07:42):
at like, okay, I call itpurposeful awfulizing.
What is it that I'm reallyafraid of?
Right?
You know, I mean, so am I afraidthat if I go to Arizona state
and I, and I fail and I don'tmake the team, Okay, well, I
could overcome that.
So once you realize you couldovercome it, the next step is,
like, there's no replacement forworking hard.
You got to work hard.
(08:03):
You know, you got to put in theeffort, be the first guy on the
field, last one to leave.
Number three, really, isdeliberate practice.
And so, for instance, if you're,if you struggle with public
speaking, maybe really focus inon something and get better at
it.
You know, it's really easy toprocrastinate or try different
things, but really deliberatepractice.
(08:24):
And number four, step numberfour is, you know, whether
you're stepping into thebatter's box, or you're going up
and giving that speech, stopthinking about, you know, all
the technical, you know, workbehind it, you know, just know
that you put in the effort.
And step number four is justlearn and let go, you know, just
go there, do your best.
(08:44):
See what happens, you know, youmight knock it out of the park,
you might, you know, fall flaton your face, but I think that
we need to give ourselves a paton the back, you know, for
getting out of our comfort zoneand trying things, because some
people don't do that, and useeverything as a learning
opportunity, and, and that'skind of my whole deal around
imposter syndrome, self doubt.
(09:04):
Interesting.
So, I'm assuming, you know,coaches often see in us things
that we don't see in ourselves,right?
That's what makes a good coach.
So, I'm assuming when that coachhad you in that room and broke
your heart, he's, he was talkingabout step number one.
You were afraid of something,right?
(09:25):
What was it?
Absolutely.
I think I was afraid of failing.
You know, it probably, I mean,probably maybe it was letting my
dad down or embarrassing myself.
I don't know.
I don't know exactly what it wasat the time, um, but I was
definitely afraid.
And you know how, like whenyou're afraid, you're, you're,
you're kind of like you can'tget out of it.
(09:45):
Your comfort zone and you'relike almost even paralyzed to do
things like I dreaded going topractice back then I don't know
why but I was I was just afraidof failing really.
Okay, so But you then you choseto go to Arizona State and, and
try again.
Do you think you were justafraid of the coach or what?
Why, why did that happen?
What, what was well in be inbetween Arizona State?
(10:08):
I, I spent two years at a juniorcollege.
Ah.
Um, because it wasn't the NILback.
You can't just go from one, theydon't have the transfer portal.
So I think I grew up a littlebit.
One, I was a really young.
you know, so when my kids areold enough, I'd probably want
them to be a little bit oldergoing into college.
So I grew up, I was more mature,and I had a couple pretty good
(10:30):
years in junior college, and Istill love baseball.
For whatever reason, when I gotto Arizona State, or when I took
this scholarship to ArizonaState, I said to myself, you
know, screw it, this is my lastchance.
I don't want to live the rest ofmy life not thinking that I, I,
I gave it my best shot forplaying baseball.
(10:51):
And I think that's what helpedme put aside.
And, um, like I said in stepnumber two, just working hard.
I just try to work my waythrough it.
I figured that if I just keepworking really hard, then it's
going to turn out for me, uh,well, which it did.
Yeah, that's great.
So what, um, what, how did youcome up with this framework?
(11:16):
I don't know.
I just, I just, I just kind of,um, I just said to myself, look,
I'm going to be the first guy onthe field, I'm going to be the
last one to leave.
Nice.
And, I, I, I struggle with acouple things.
I struggle with, uh, fieldingground balls, and I struggle
with hitting curve balls.
So I just practiced that untilI, I just couldn't do it
anymore.
I just, I mean, when I meancan't do it anymore, I, until I
(11:37):
exhausted myself with it.
And then, when it, when it gotto the game time, you know, we
also learned how to, you know,Visualize success, you know,
they taught us that at ArizonaState.
So I would say to myself, okay,you know, I'm playing, I'm at
first base, I'm the startingfirst baseman.
I'm going to visualize myself,if the ball's hit to me,
(11:58):
fielding it successfully andgetting the guy out, or
whatever, right?
And so, um, and I said, I'mgoing to be okay with that,
because I put in so much workand effort, that my reactions or
whatever, it's going to work outfor me.
And so, I mean, that's kind oflike how I built this framework
that I didn't even think aboutfor several years, but I used it
in the business world too, youknow, whether it's through
(12:19):
public speaking or running asales team.
And then I, I, I, You know, whenI came out with my book a couple
of years ago, I just kind of putit all together.
Like this is actually aframework that I had for it.
And it's something that I'veshared with the people I coach
or mentor and, you know, atleast for me and some other
people, I think it's beenhelpful.
Yeah.
(12:39):
You know, I, I think, um, there,there's no doubt, right?
Like these are, are, are, it's agreat framework.
Right.
And working hard and practicingand learning to let go are
really important.
I, you know, I'm curious goingback to the first one though,
about being afraid of something.
I think, uh, I know we talked alittle bit before we started
(13:01):
that I like to run marathons.
Right.
And I, I actually, Yeah.
Now, I realized that I ran onelast year.
I had my, my fastest result,which I was really proud of.
But there's always something Igo through when I get, when I,
when I run the marathon, that I,I almost like mourn a loss.
Right?
And, um, and whether or not I amsuccessful, I don't feel very
(13:26):
different.
Um, if I achieve my goal or not,right?
Like, the result I've noticed,uh, as I've gotten older and all
that, I, I, I don't feel too,um, too excited if I do great
or, or, or not if I don't, well,I, maybe if I, if I don't hit
the goal, I, I think about itmore for sure.
But um, What I do notice is, Imourn the loss because I, I miss
(13:48):
the practice part of it, right?
Like I, I've learned to love thetraining.
And I notice, you know, alongthe way, just going through it
all, the, the practice everyday, getting out, running, doing
drills, you know, running withthe team, you know, doing
different kinds of runs, allthat.
There's just something about it.
You build a discipline and itspreads to all the other areas
(14:08):
of your life.
And before you know it.
You're getting great results inevery area of your life as well,
right?
Isn't it funny how that works?
Yeah, no, I mean, I think youbring up a great point.
Well, first of all, I commendyou on doing marathons Cuz I I
hate running, you know Maybe youknow, but uh, so did I by the
way But, but, but I, so I thinkthat's awesome and that kind of
(14:31):
goes to what I, what I like tocall about like athletic
education, because all thosethings that you mentioned right
there, the discipline,collaboration, you know,
focusing on, I know growthmindset really is, you know,
you're focusing on the processinstead of the end goal, you
know, as far as to get, to getthings done.
And um, I think it's importantwhat you said right there too,
(14:53):
Louie, is that not get too up ordown.
Yeah, you know like not get tooexcited when you win something
But don't beat yourself up toomuch If you don't if you do
fail, you know, try to keep iteven keel And again, I just go
back to rewarding yourself forputting in the effort a quick
little story I have a i've a Ithink I mentioned to you I have
(15:15):
a seven year old daughter and acouple months ago.
We're walking up the hill tocome home and she's got This
little bike race and she's like,daddy, I don't know if I want to
do it because what if I don'twin on?
And I said, look, I don't careif you win.
What I care about is that youpractice and you try hard, and
you do, and you put in your besteffort.
(15:35):
That's all I care about.
You know, I mean, and, and youdo your best.
And so I'm not a fan ofparticipation trophies at all,
but I do love, you know, she,she participated, she went in
this race and she finished inlike fourth place and they gave
her, you know, and she has thispicture of her arms raised, like
she won the fricking Olympics,you know, but I was proud of her
(15:55):
for putting in the effort anddoing her, her, her best.
I'm sure she felt great aboutit, too.
She felt great about it.
I mean, I gotta work with her.
I don't, I don't want her tosettle for fourth place, but you
know, at least she put in the,at least she put in the effort
to, um, and, and, and stoppedworrying about, you know, the
end results.
(16:16):
Focused on the practice like youwere just talking about.
Yeah, what are the mindsets I'veadapted around that?
Adopted around that is, um, totreat like the race itself, you
know, the actual marathon orwhatever race I do as the
reward, right?
For all of the training and, youknow, the practice and the
working hard to get there.
So then, uh, you know, you getto the starting line and I'm
(16:39):
like, all right, well, there'snothing I can do at this point,
right?
The work is in, you know, thehaze in the barn, as we like to
say.
And, um.
So I might as well just enjoythis.
This is my reward.
you know But then I stillmourned the loss of that whole
pro, you know I got to go intothe offseason kind of like uh to
relate it to baseball It's it'sthe offseason there's something
tough about the offseason,right?
You start developing bad habitsand you know little by little
(17:02):
they creep in and you just startchanging You're not feeling good
about yourself and you knowbefore you know, you got to get
back out there Well, I thinkwhat you said About the reward
is same as my step four, learnand let it go.
Right.
Cause you know, you, you just, Idon't necessarily look at it.
As a reward, but maybe I should,you know, because I'm, I'm here
and I get to give thispresentation or I'm, you know,
(17:24):
I've made it to this point, butit's exactly the same thing, you
know, stop thinking about it andgo for it.
And then you have to go back.
I manage our sales team here atlearn it.
And I'm big on the fundamentalsand foundation because yeah, you
get in the bad habits, you know,and you need to, you need to do
that work.
So I, I think that, uh, whetheror not you love it, I think, I
(17:47):
think it's so important to beable to, um, focus on the
fundamentals and, and getyourself back in shape, get, get
back in that mindset too.
Yeah.
So let's talk a little bit aboutlearning.
First of all, I got to commendyou man to be a CEO of any
company for 26 years.
That says a lot for a company tosurvive that long.
And also I think it's a, Icommend you on how you've gone
(18:09):
about it to start from, youknow, the front desk as a
receptionist and work your wayup when, you know, Your, your
father started the company,which is another commendable
thing, right?
As a father, we all kind ofdream of building a multi
generational company.
So that, that's pretty awesome.
And I'm sure you probably dreamabout passing it on to, or maybe
not, but I'll let you answerthat.
(18:31):
But, uh, yeah, I just want tocommend you on all that, but
also ask you to share a littlebit about what it is and what
you do.
So learn it is a live learningplatform.
So essentially we're instructorled training company and we
really focus all B to B and wefocus on mostly soft skills,
which I don't like that termsoft skills, human skills, you
(18:51):
know, everything on, uh, havingdifficult conversations,
collaboration, coaching, youknow, developing new managers,
companies turn to us whenthey're, they're upscaling new
managers and people are goingfrom individual contributors.
There's two new managers andthey need to a new skill set or,
you know, just building strongerteams.
And yeah, I do think it's great.
(19:12):
You know that I've, I love learnit.
I've, and I think what I lovemost about it is the, the team
I've been able to develop overthe years.
I have great talent who, um, youknow, come and go.
Some people have been here for along time.
Some people are here for threeor four years.
That's what kind of keeps itexciting and always trying to
evolve and change.
You know, it is kind of.
(19:33):
It is different.
I, in some sense, I wish I wouldbe more involved in other
organizations, you know, becausethat people have different
experiences, but what's fun forme is I get to see behind the
curtains, Louis, of all thesephenomenal companies, you know,
small, medium and large abouthow they lead teams, how they
lead organizations, and it'sbeen a great experience overall,
(19:55):
and I'm involved in real estateand other things too, but Yeah,
a lot of people are always like,well, how, how do you, how have
you been there so long?
And as far as my dad, he neverreally worked at LearnIt.
He came up with this idea, likea lot of great entrepreneurs.
He went and took a classsomewhere in the 90s, was trying
to figure out how to digitizeour portfolio for real estate.
He hated the class he took.
(20:16):
He said, there's gotta be abetter way to do it.
That's where he came up with theidea of LearnIt.
And I just didn't want to lethim down.
You know, my parents, mom anddad gave me a great life.
And I, I wanted to prove to himthat I can contribute and I, uh,
just happened to fall in lovewith LearnIt and the learning
and development world, which Inever even considered, you know,
things happen for a reason, Iguess.
(20:38):
And here I am.
Interesting.
And you, so you, you wrote abook about it.
You have a podcast now about it.
How, how, uh, you sharingbasically the services you
provide through that orexplaining your frameworks or.
Yeah.
In my book, uh, the learn it allleader.
I, I was lucky.
(20:59):
I played for three Hall of Famebaseball coaches, you know, at
Pepperdine, Junior College, andArizona State.
And, and funny enough, the, thefourth coach, which I don't talk
about as much, just won, uh, mysenior year at Arizona State, I
played for Pat Murphy, who justwon National League Manager of
the Year.
Oh, wow.
You know, so.
Fortunately, I, I, I've taken alot of these lessons that I
(21:21):
learned on the field throughalso from my father, and it's
helped really mold my leadershipstyle.
And so I talk about a learn itall mentality, you know, doing
and being.
The first half of the book isabout, you know, the mindset,
you know, traits that I thinkyou need.
The second half of the book isactually doing, you know, how to
implement some of those traitsand, um, you know, to be a
(21:44):
successful leader and, and Ishare a lot of stories, you
know, whether it's arounddecision making.
I threw a party for Guns andRoses one time.
And so I talk about, you know,some decision making there.
Uh, and also some of the, youknow, um, Great stories of some
of the employees that I've hadand what I've learned leading
teams over the years and that's,that's pretty much it.
(22:05):
I mean, I didn't get a MBA fromHarvard or anything like that.
Those are great, but, uh, Iguess my story is really, it's
like, if I can do it, you can doit too.
I just think that you need tobe, uh, constantly wanting to
grow and evolve and improve,which I'm sure a lot of your
listeners are.
That's why they're listening toa podcast like this.
Yeah, so what it how wouldexactly would you define?
(22:29):
I mean you've kind of explainedit But I'm wondering if you have
Like you like you outlined anice framework for overcoming
your pasta syndrome the same forthe learn it all mindset So what
I look at we talked about thisat the beginning, you know a
know it all You know somebodywho comes to the game.
You got it all figured out.
You have all the answers, right?
You're not open to changing.
It's my way or the highway and Ithink All of us could be know it
(22:52):
alls in certain aspects, likeI'm a dad, sometimes I'm very
much a know it all, like it'stime to go to bed, there's no
discussion around that, right?
Yeah, yeah.
Now, you take the learn it allmentality, and I wanna, look,
learn it all mentality doesn'tmean you're just constantly
learning all the time.
I mean, you have to implementsome of the work that you do.
Uh, this guy that I had on myshow, David Katz, had a great
(23:14):
saying, you know, learningwithout doing is treason, right?
But, um, So you have to learn itall mentality.
I think those traits are, youknow, you've got to be humble.
You gotta, you gotta know thatyou don't have all the answers
and be able to not, not beafraid to reach out to people,
to, to get help.
You gotta have integrity.
I think it's important to lead.
You think it would go on unheardof, but, uh, it's super
(23:38):
important.
You lead with integrity.
You know, you have to have thecourage to, you know, make bold
decisions and try differentthings.
And I think you also have to becurious.
Um, Yeah, I think you couldlearn something from everybody
and there's always room forimprovement again.
And so I think great leaders arejust curious and when I refer to
leaders, Louie.
(23:59):
You don't need to run a hundred,there's a hundred people that
learn it, right?
So you don't have to run ahundred person team.
You don't even, you know, youcould be a great leader as a
parent, individual contributoror as a coach.
I think leadership starts withleading yourself first and then
leading others.
So, I mean, that's basically mywhole thing about, um, having a
learn it all mentality.
(24:20):
Yeah, that's good.
How do, how do you, uh, with,with, like, curiosity?
Uh, I'm curious.
There you go, you're curious.
Yeah, you know, this issomething I try to really focus
on.
We, we have a lot of biases,right?
Absolutely.
And that can affect ourcuriosity, right?
We see it with, uh, I mean, wejust You know, with elections,
(24:41):
for example, politics, you know,what have you, we, we, we have
this, um, this bias that doesn'tallow us to see the other side
and, and, and, you know, so how,how can we use curiosity to
intentionally help us, um, youknow, see our biases and maybe,
uh, overcome them.
So I think it's a good, I thinkthat's a good question.
(25:03):
I mean, one of the things thatI've done and don't challenge me
too much on this, cause I don'tknow all the names of them, but,
but I've studied a lot ofbiases.
Yeah, you know, I've, I've, I'vestudied whether it's unconscious
bias or, or anchoring.
I'm just very fascinated by, uh,the behavioral science around
biases.
And, and I think one way to getbetter at it is to just be
intentional and thinking about,um, Confirmation, like for
(25:29):
instance, confirmation bias issomething that I would, I would
struggle with a lot earlier onin my career where I would go to
people who I knew would agreewith me, right?
I'd ask them, what do you thinkabout this?
And I knew they agree with me asI've gotten older, more mature
and better.
I've, you know, over the last 15years, I've really made sure
(25:49):
I've built up a diverse team andbring in people with different
opinions and differentstrengths.
When I ask them questions, like,what do you think about this,
and, or if they bring ideas tome, because you know sometimes
in your head you think toyourself, okay, this just, this
is just not going to work.
I'll just shut this off rightaway.
This is stupid.
(26:10):
Now I'm kind of like, I'll sitback and say, okay, well, maybe
there's something to this.
And I'll be surprised at howmany times that just by being
open and listening and moreadaptable, I've actually
implemented, you know, thingsthat maybe I would have never
thought of.
And I think when you do that,especially leading an
organization, people will cometo you with more ideas because
(26:32):
they feel like you're open, um,to hear, bring out what the, now
I don't go forward with all ofthem, but that's, but that's
just kind of what I've done.
I, I've been intentional on, onlearning more about biases and,
and trying to get better atthem, um, whenever possible.
Yeah, yeah, that's somethingI've been fascinated by a lot
(26:53):
lately, too.
I remember, um, I don't know ifyou ever listened to The
Knowledge Project with ShaneParrish.
It's pretty popular.
Love it.
Yeah, isn't it a great podcast?
I think it's great.
He's amazing.
Oh, man, it's awesome.
And, uh, he had one on biases, Ithink he even wrote a book about
it, uh, on like mental modelsand biases.
I, I've read those too, yeah.
Oh, yeah.
So, uh, I'm, I'm, with, withyour studies and, uh, on it, you
(27:16):
know, are there, are thereothers that you really see are
just incredibly dangerous?
You've already mentioned, youknow, confirmation bias, you
know, others, and, and what elsedo you do?
I would say, I thinkconfirmation bias is a big one.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, I, I love the book.
Influenced by Robert Cini.
If you, if you Yeah.
(27:36):
To me.
And that's like one of the Yeah.
Oh, you did?
Yeah.
We'll have to talk about thatmore time.
Yeah.
I, I lo he, yeah.
So, um, there's all kinds of, ofdifferent ones.
I th I think.
Ageism is a, is a big bias tobe, to be totally honest.
Right.
I mean, I, I, I was coachingthis guy the other day.
Um, he's, he's awesome.
He's the sales leader, you know,he's probably 32 and he was
(27:59):
talking about, you know, hiring,bringing on some new people and
he's like, well, this one guy,he's, he looks good on paper,
but he's probably, Close to sixyears old and I'm like, don't
judge a book by a cover, youknow, also you need to be open
to have to bring in differentperspectives and different, you
know, whether it's a Gen Z orsomebody maybe close to 60 don't
(28:22):
let those biases affect yourdecision making, you know, so I
think that I think that thatthat is a really big, big one as
well.
Yeah, you know, one that I'vebeen, uh, Affected by half my
life.
Now it feels like uh, is recencybias, right?
Okay.
I mean, so many times.
Totally, totally.
Yeah.
God and I, I really strugglewith that.
(28:43):
I mean, I am still so affected.
I I still have so many limitingbeliefs around 2008.
As you know, I'm a real estateguy.
You come from a real estatefamily too.
I mean, anybody who's in realestate in 2008 has to, that will
be ingrained in the And, uh, andI wonder if you know of any
good.
Strategies for helping toovercome some of that because
every time I see something thatgoes wrong.
(29:04):
I'm like, all right, here we goagain Oh shit in that.
Yeah, it you miss opportunitybecause of it, right?
Yeah, and I think that I thinkthat that's why i'm glad you
brought that up because I thinkthat that's why I brought up
Robert Cialdini because he talksabout the recency bias, right?
You know, you buy a bmw and theneverything you see is Yeah.
Right?
And I, I, I mean, I don't haveany specific hacks and I, I do
(29:28):
feel for you, uh, my familylost, I mean, a lot in 2008.
I mean, our, I mean, if youGoogle Lembe family and you look
at it, but hey, it's alllearning experience, right?
Right, right, right.
It's all learning experience.
And I think that, um, I thinkthat what's important to try to
maybe get through the uh,recency bias is maybe look at
(29:50):
the whole picture, you know, tryto recognize that you're doing
that.
You're, you're just focusing on,okay, well, maybe I'm just
jumping to conclusions becausethis has happened now, you know,
so maybe look at the wholepicture and what things are
like, um, because yeah, theytalk about it.
Robert Chaldean talks about it.
You talk, you, you hear about anairplane crash and you think all
(30:10):
the planes are going to crash.
But if you look at, uh, or notall the planes, but you know
it's going to happen more often.
But if you look at thestatistics, you know, maybe in
this case flying is more safethan, than driving.
And maybe even though whathappened in 2009, 2008 with the
real estate market, um, do somestudying and seeing that Maybe
real estate investing is stillfantastic, right?
(30:33):
You know, and the way to go, butmaybe also learn to diversify.
So you don't put all your eggsin one, in one basket.
So, um, the other one I like is,is kind of like the anchoring
bias, you know, um, where you,you, you, a dollar amount comes
out and you, and you reallythink, okay, it's worth this.
But, um, you know, uh, that,that's one I've always struggled
(30:54):
with as well.
I'm like, okay.
You know, somebody will say,well, don't worry, Damon, this
isn't going to cost you 100,000, you know, and they give you
a proposal that we, uh, at like25, 000, you automatically
think, Oh, that's much better.
But that's kind of a trick withthe anchoring at the hundred
thousand, right?
You know, so I think it's prettycool, you know, whether it's a
knowledge project or Dan RLE, ifthat's how you pronounce his
(31:17):
name or Robert Cialdini, there'sjust a lot of research out there
that's really fascinating.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, we all, weall suffered from anchoring
biases with, with the recentinflation, right?
I mean, we're all, I think as acountry, as a collective, we got
pissed off when we're going andpaying, every time we go into
the grocery store, we're payingmore and more for a dozen eggs,
(31:38):
right?
For a dozen eggs, yeah.
Like, whoa.
That won the election, probablythis year.
Very likely, right?
And you get, you get used to oneprice, the next time you go in
it's higher and the next timeyou, you know, you're finally
giving in to that and it's evenmore.
It's like, whoa.
Crazy.
Yeah, so that's a good educationon anchoring right there.
Yeah.
Um, Damian, let me ask you onemore, uh, about, with, with that
(32:04):
growth mindset, the learn it allmindset, I'm curious what your
thoughts are on tech and AI.
I'm a huge fan of it and, um, I,I think that, uh, when it comes
to AI, you have, I guess youreally have two choices.
You could put your head in thesand and just think it's going
(32:26):
to go away and then you're goingto get left behind or you can,
you know, go all in and I don't.
You know, I, I don't thinkpeople will necessarily lose
their jobs.
Some people will to AI, but Ithink for the most partly, I
think you're going to lose yourjob to people who are power
users when it comes to AI, youknow, whether, and so my
(32:50):
recommendation for yourlisteners and I preach at learn
at all time, I probably drive mystaff nuts with, uh, I'm not,
I'm not a super technical guy.
But I'm super into learningabout AI and leveraging AI,
whether it's chat, GPT orsuperhuman or any, some of these
different platforms or apps.
(33:11):
Um, and I just think you shouldroll up your sleeves again and
just get heavily involved.
It's never going to, that'swhat's great about learning.
It's never going to replace someof the skills like empathy, um,
um, Communication, you know, Ithink you're always going to
need some of these human skills.
But AI is also going to givesome of these smaller businesses
(33:32):
like Learnit an opportunity tocompete with these massive
companies.
You know, I can't afford to hire30 marketing people, but I can
learn how to use, uh, ChatGPT orClaude and say, and create
personas and say, help medevelop X or help me develop Y.
So I think you really need toget immersed into AI.
(33:53):
And I also think that you can'trely on it solely, meaning don't
go in.
Create something in chat GPT andjust send it out.
I think you need to make sureit's correct and you need to,
you need to, you need to add ahuman element to it, but I think
you're, uh, you're going to missthe boat if you're not, um, if
(34:13):
you're not If you're resistantto it, I think you need to adapt
and evolve.
What do you think?
Yeah, I, um, I'm, I'm so curiousabout this right now.
And I spent a lot of timelearning about AI, using it now,
uh, and everything.
I, I think about how can I dothings with AI?
(34:37):
Because I, I do think if wedon't Adopt it.
Yeah, that's where the realdanger lies, but it also the
more I use it the more scared Iget Because it is amazing what
it can do, right?
It's crazy I mean it is and Iforgot what I was listening to I
(34:58):
think it was an interview withMark Zuckerberg Where he said
that there was some AI I don'tknow if it was meta AI or
something where it was writingcode to prevent coders from,
like, hacking it or something.
So like, you know what I mean?
That's some scary stuff.
Yeah.
(35:18):
So, it's one I have a lot ofmixed feelings about, but yet
I'm using and I will be a poweruser.
Um, so I agree with you there,you know?
I'm also reading now a greatbook called The AI Leader.
I'm only about halfway throughit.
Have you heard of this book yet?
Who wrote it?
Jeff Woods, I believe.
You just stole my answer.
(35:40):
That's what I was gonna Hisepisode on my podcast came out
today.
Oh, you had him.
It's funny cuz I'm gonna I wasjust thinking I'm gonna reach
out to him and see if I can gethim on.
Oh, excellent I'll introduce youto him.
Excellent.
Thank you.
Oh, great book.
Okay.
And what I, and what I like,that's amazing, by the way.
Um, well, I know he spoke atGoBundance maybe, I think,
(36:03):
right?
Okay.
But anyways, um, what he talksabout is don't use it just for
writing emails.
Um, I have AI as your thoughtpartner, which I totally agree
with.
I've used AI to help me build.
So, I think that that's a greatbook.
(36:25):
I'll have to come up with a newone for when you ask me about
favorite book.
And, uh, which I will.
And, um, I just think it's agreat book.
Okay.
And it's great for somebodywho's not super technical too,
you know, a senior businessleader.
So make AI your thought partnerand you be the thought leader
and make it the thought partner.
How funny is that?
Yeah.
AI driven leader it's called.
(36:46):
The AI driven literature.
That's right.
Yep.
I just started it.
I'm probably a quarter of theway through.
It's uh, yeah, it's funny.
It's awesome Um, and itdefinitely gives you a different
perspective altogether.
There you go Jeff.
There's another plug for you Soyeah, and you know the other
time along those Lines, I, Ispend a lot of time thinking
about the opportunity in, um, itwith AI, like where will, you
(37:09):
know, I think there will be alot of job displacement at
first, but we will evolve andit'll probably create even more
jobs and more opportunity,right?
Um, and as we figure it out,because it's not the first
breaking technology.
Look, it's, uh, we, we've hadthree other industrial
revolutions, right?
And, and they've all, they'veall created jobs somehow.
(37:31):
That's right.
And, um, But people are sayingthat AI is bigger than
electricity.
It's bigger than printing press.
Hopefully it goes in the samedirection.
And hopefully it helps curecancer or self driving cars or
whatever it is.
I don't know.
There needs to be governance.
(37:52):
But again, I just think us asindividuals I, you know, and
leaders, I think we need toembrace it and incorporate it
into our organization if wedon't want to become irrelevant,
you, I think you need to know AIand we're beating the drum here,
but to be relevant, I think youhave to immerse yourself in it.
Yeah, totally.
You know, um, I think one of theother great opportunities with
(38:15):
it is connectivity, humanconnectivity.
Um, that, that will not bereplaced.
And I hear a lot of talk aboutwhat you were saying before
around empathy and such, uh,communications.
But I, I think at the end of theday, you know, there, Like we've
hit bottom with the work fromhome.
People do go, are going back tothe office.
People are going to events, youknow, uh, and maybe not at the
(38:39):
same level as before, right?
Maybe hybrid will be the case,but you know, I'm a, I'm
personally looking for an officeagain.
I gave up my office about a yearand a half ago and I'm hating
it.
I want to get back.
So I, I think that humanconnectivity is big.
I go to a lot more events nowthan I did before, just to
connect with new people.
And I think that that keeps isgoing to keep growing.
So anything around connectivity.
(39:00):
You know, connecting humans, uh,will be a major, major
opportunity that AI can'tdisrupt, really, so.
Yeah, I, I totally agree.
I mean, uh, this young woman whoworked for me, um, you know,
she, she was so excited for workfrom home, work from home, you
know, and, and.
Yeah.
And, uh, she ended up moving toNew York.
(39:22):
And she took a four or five dayin the in office job and because
we just had lunch and she saidI'm just tired of working from
home and being by myself all thetime.
Yeah, you know, I appreciatedthe flexibility But I want to be
around people I want to go tohappy hour and go to events and
do things So for a real estateguy who owns an office building
in San Francisco Unfortunatelythat right before Cove it we
(39:44):
purchased it.
I'd like to see People come backinto the office a little bit
more often as well.
I think I think I think I thinkthe human connection is is good.
That's never going to bereplaced by AI.
Um, I just released a We're justcoming out with a series on our
for free on our podcast the 11essentials 11 essential skills
and it's all about listeningempathy self awareness human
(40:07):
decision making all the skillsthat you're going to have to
have you know, you know in um,That will make you uh
irreplaceable Yeah, I'm gonnacheck that out for sure.
Um, and if you, I'll put linksin the show notes when we get,
when we air this as well.
I'll send it to you, yeah.
So, uh, well, we're actuallyaround that time where we should
(40:30):
probably get into our worldfamous Wayfinder 4.
It's alright if you want to useone of them again.
No, I got a new one now.
Okay, good.
So, uh, so give us a favorite.
Favorite book that we alreadystarted?
Favorite anything.
Activity, book, um, uh, show,you know, whatever.
I would say, I would say I'vebeen, I love reading books, but
(40:53):
I just started listening to AlPacino's, um, autobiography on,
uh, and it's awesome.
Is it?
Oh my gosh, it's awesome.
So, if you are even slightly afan of Al Pacino, go pick up, go
pick up, I think it's calledSunny Boy.
So, um, that's, that's a greatone.
Great sales book that I love iscalled The Jolt Effect.
(41:15):
I actually had Matt Dixon on it.
On my show, he wrote thechallenger sales as well, but
it's all about why, um, peopleend up at indecision, which kind
of goes back to some of thosebiases we talked about, but the
jolt effects a great, um, bookif you're in sales or you lead a
sales team, but if you'relooking for a great
autobiography, please check outAl Pacino.
It's awesome.
(41:35):
Okay, cool.
Does he narrate?
That's the best part about it.
Oh, I love that.
He narrates it, his voice, hechuckles when he tells his
stories.
I can't, I can't even do itjustice, Louis.
Okay.
You know, it's one of thosethings where if you're out
walking the dog or, you know,you just get, you just get
absorbed in listening to himtalk, you know.
Yeah.
And he's just frickin awesome.
(41:57):
I love listening toautobiographies when the Person
reads it and they're good andengaging like Matthew
McConaughey's green lights.
Yeah, I'm sure you've heardlisten to oh my god Fantastic.
Yeah.
No, I've seen him on a bunch ofpodcasts Talking about his book,
but he's got the voice like AlPacino, right?
Yeah, very distinctive.
(42:18):
I Listened to a couple bookswritten by Kevin Hart and he's
hilarious.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, so yeah, I was listeningto Kevin Hart book and I was
like laughing out loud and Walk,walk in that, people thought
there's been wrong with me.
Yeah.
But.
But check out the Al Pacinobook.
Okay, okay, I got it.
I'm gonna, I'm excited actually.
I'm gonna probably download itright after this.
(42:38):
Yeah.
Alright, how about a hack, likea life hack that you use all the
time?
So what I would say, you know, Iwant to combine a routine with
a, um, with an app.
You know, so I, I, I'm a bigbeliever in, in reading, you
know, a lot of times people willsay, well, I don't have time to
read, but yet they could, theycould list off like 15 shows
that they're, they're watchingon Netflix.
(42:59):
Right.
So I, I just think get in thehabit of, I read 20 minutes
every morning, 20, 25.
But it's every morning, uh,different books, and if you do
that, you end up with like 20,30 books a year.
You know, having a 7 year oldand a 3 year old, I don't have a
lot of time, but from 5.
30 to 6, I can knock out, youknow, and it doesn't matter how
(43:20):
many pages I read, I just readit.
Now, the, the hack that I dowith it to try to retain more is
I use an app called ReadWise.
Are you familiar with that?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I haven't used it.
And I, I read on the, yeah, I,I, I, cause you know, when I use
physical books, I highlight itand I'll never go back and look
at it again.
(43:40):
So a lot of business books Iread on, uh, Kindle and I
highlight it, import it intoReadwise, which, and it then
pings me, uh, once or twice aday and it just, it's like, and
I'll just read the, the five,um, highlights, you know, it
helps reinforce what It helpsreinforce the learning.
So that's, that's kind of myhack, because again, Oh, nice.
(44:01):
You know, if, if you read abunch of books, you know, for
your listeners out there, yougotta, you gotta connect it to,
to, if it's a business book,connect it like, how is it gonna
be relevant for my particularwork or life, you know?
And I think Readwise helps me dothat because it brings back some
of the highlights.
Oh, that's cool.
I've heard that one before.
I haven't used it yet.
I, I need to.
(44:22):
Yeah, it's good.
What about a piece of advice foryour younger self?
I think a piece of advice, youknow, we kind of talked about
this with the, um, you know,around the imposter syndrome and
everything like that.
But I think a piece of advice,uh, for, from my young, what I
would tell my younger self is,let's say that, uh, you're
somebody and, and you reallywant to apply for a job, but you
(44:45):
look at the job description andmaybe.
We don't meet all therequirements on it.
Go for it anyways, you know,just go apply.
What's the worst thing that canhappen?
Um, again, I've, I've coached alot of people and I've, you
know, even hired people whodidn't meet all the
requirements, but a lot ofpeople don't give themselves a
(45:06):
chance to fail.
So I guess that's my thing ofsaying, learn how to get
comfortable with failure.
Um, earlier on in my, in your,in your.
Career.
I wish I would have done thatearlier instead of being a
little too safe at at sometimes.
Yeah, you know, I'm wonderingabout that.
That's good advice, right?
And I've tried that.
I'm wondering on the other sideof that as a hiring manager,
(45:28):
right?
What what do you see in aperson's resume or application
that will that will still grabyour attention?
Even if they don't have all thequalifications?
Maybe some of the activitiesthat they've done, you know,
maybe, um, if they've beeninvolved in different groups, I,
(45:52):
I know, I mean, I'm not a bigfan and maybe this is bad, but
you know, if somebody is jobhopping every eight to 12 months
and, you know, not saying I wantsomebody to be there, uh, 10
years at companies, but I'm alsobiased.
Let's be honest.
I'm biased towards sports.
So if, if somebody playedcollege sports, if you look at
(46:12):
my sales team, I got eight salesreps.
Six of them are D1 athletes, youknow, uh, swimmers, baseball,
uh, uh, one in tennis.
So, uh, that, that's somethingthat grabs me when it comes to
resumes.
If somebody is, uh, you know, isa musician or they played sports
or they've done some, someinteresting things, right?
(46:33):
So, I've always been a bigbeliever.
Louis, when possible, hire foraptitude and attitude over
experience, you know, not for aCOO position, but bring people
in early in their career or whohave the kind of mindset where
they could learn and grow.
So that, that's why I broughtthat up where it's like, get in
(46:53):
there and apply and see whathappens.
Yeah.
Okay.
What about, um, uh, a bigopportunity or a limiting
belief?
Just pick one and run with it.
I was going to say AI, and Ithink the big opportunity, uh,
for my business, for yourbusiness is leveraging AI.
(47:18):
And at LearnIt, we're buildingout some really cool things, uh,
from AI habit coaches to, um,Ways to help us build better
content.
And so I think that there's uh,It's really still early enough
to be a a front runner in yourIndustry and in leveraging AI.
(47:38):
Yeah, you know, uh as youmentioned that I'm thinking like
with your company I wouldimagine There's a really big
opportunity If you're teaching,you know, I know you don't like
the term, but we're going to useit anyway, soft skills, right?
And a lot of that revolvesaround dealing with other
humans.
We essentially now have to learnhow to interact with AI as well,
(48:00):
the AI bots, right?
So I would imagine there's ahuge opportunity there.
Yeah, I mean, we have, uh, uh,we, we have, uh, different, uh,
workshops, classes, AI forleaders.
Cause essentially we're tellingpeople you need to look, say
you're managing a team of.
Well, of 13, now you're managinga team of 14, you have 13 humans
(48:23):
and you have ai, you know?
Yeah.
And so you have the, the, so howdo you, how, how do you
collaborate and, and how do you,uh, get your team members to
adopt and, and leverage ai?
That, that's a big thing, whichall starts at the senior
leadership level.
We don't have time to talk aboutall that, but No, a absolutely.
I think it's a, I think it's a,a big, not only.
(48:44):
Does it help us on the softskills side, because that,
that's very important, but alsothe workshops that we do on how
to incorporate AI into your teamand deal with some of those
fears that people have and adoptit in your organization.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The, uh, you know, the, um, I, Ithink, uh, I have a good friend
(49:07):
who's an AI engineer.
Actually.
He does those voice recording,you know, the, the, the
telephone programs.
You know what I mean?
You press one for this and he'sbeen work, he's been an engineer
on that stuff for.
20, 30, 40 years, you know, he'sprobably 10 years older than me.
So I'm guessing like 40 and he'sone of the leaders in, in this
space in the world, really.
(49:28):
And now with AI, he's got a fullstaff that works for him, right?
He's a product guy and, and, butthey're all AI, right?
It's really only like twohumans.
And what he does, he's got allthese different AI bots that he
manages, right?
I mean, it must be a hundred.
Cause he says basically forevery time you press one, that's
(49:49):
an instruction from one AI bot.
to talk to another one.
So you got AI talking to anotherAI to talk to another.
So you, you now have a hierarchyof, of AI.
Yeah.
It, which is just kind of blowsthe mind.
Right.
So I, it may be more that 13people that you're meeting with,
uh, may not just be 14 with theone AI, but it may end up being,
(50:11):
you know, 26.
Right.
And well, it's, it's, it'sprobably.
Still 14, but that taking on agigantic role in, in, in, well,
you can call it 26.
What I'm saying is, yeah, that'swhat, that's what I'm saying.
That's why I think, you know,the guy downstairs in the office
downstairs has a plumbingcompany and I, and I call him
cause I live around here and hisfrigging phone service is
(50:33):
awesome.
And it was all AI.
It was all, it was, it was allAI.
And I told him that.
Yeah.
And he was like, this is how Iget, I'm able to compete with.
Some of these large companiesbecause I can't afford 10 people
anymore, but, um, and again,yes, so that could hurt with,
you know, jobs for other people,but it gives him an opportunity
to compete because he'sleveraging, he's leveraging AI.
(50:58):
And quite frankly, for somepeople, they wouldn't even
realize that they were talkingto AI.
Yeah.
Yeah, I know.
It's, it's that good now.
Yeah.
Well, Damon, this has been a lotof fun.
If, uh, people want to learnmore about you, about LearnIt,
uh, perhaps, you know, hire youand your, uh, your team to come
in and help them with theirbusiness.
How can they go about doingthis?
(51:20):
I would say first connect withme on LinkedIn, uh, Damon.
Let me on LinkedIn.
Uh, please check out my podcast.
The, the Learn it All podcast.
Louis probably should get you onthere if you're in interested.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Uh, go to learn it.com and ifyou find a class that you like,
whether it's emotionalintelligence, Excel, or I don't
know, whatever's on there, uh,send me a message on LinkedIn.
(51:42):
I'll give you a free class.
You know, a free live class.
They're worth 250 bucks, but,uh, come check it out.
And so those are really the bestplaces.
I would just say, start with,uh, Damon on, on LinkedIn.
And, uh, Please check out theLearn It All podcast.
Yeah.
I'm definitely going to checkout your podcast.
Uh, it sounds like you've had alot of great guests and, uh,
it's right up my alley.
(52:02):
So, um, thank you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, thanks for having me.
I really enjoyed the, I reallyenjoyed the, the questions and
conversation.
Likewise.
Thank you.
We hope you've enjoyed TheWayfinder Show.
If you got value from thisepisode, please take a few
seconds to leave us a 5 starrating and review.
This will allow us to help morepeople find their way to live
(52:24):
more authentic and excitinglives.
We'll catch you on the nextepisode.
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