October 8, 2024 • 61 mins
In this engaging episode of The Wayfinder Show, host Luis Hernandez chats with Nick Hutchinson, founder of BookThinkers, about his transformative journey into the world of podcasts and books. Introduced to podcasts by his boss, Nick discovered that successful individuals often read and implement lessons from books, which he considers a powerful 'cheat code' for life. This insight spurred him to embrace personal development through reading. Luis and Nick delve into Nick's creation of BookThinkers, a company that helps authors promote their books through digital marketing strategies like podcasting and social media. Discussing Nick's own book, 'Rise of the Reader,' they share strategies for retaining and implementing knowledge from books. The episode highlights the significant impact of reading on personal and professional growth, showcasing anecdotes from various authors and discussing the unique opportunities digital nomadism has provided Nick and his wife. Offering inspirational advice and insight into the world of book marketing, this episode encourages listeners to continue reading and exploring new horizons.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
My boss at the time introducedme to the world of podcasts.
I was commuting one hour eachway, five days a week.
So I was spending 10 hours aweek in the car, just listening
to music like every othercollege kid would.
And he said to me, Nick, playingthe same song or the same radio
station for the 500th time isnot going to change your life.
But the right podcast might.
(00:22):
And so he introduced me to someshows where successful people
were being interviewed and youcould listen to them for free
and they were giving away all oftheir secrets, which was just so
cool for me at the time.
And after a couple of weeks oflistening to these podcasts, I
just connected the dots.
I realized that successfulpeople read and implement books
because books condense decadesof somebody else's greatest life
(00:44):
lessons into days.
It's like the greatest cheatcode that was ever given to us.
Welcome to The Wayfinder Showwith Luis Hernandez, where
guests discuss the why and howof making changes that led them
(01:06):
down a more authentic path orallow them to level up in some
area of their life.
Our goal is to dig deep andprovide not only knowledge, but
actionable advice to help youget from where you are to where
you want to be.
Come join us and find the way toyour dream life.
(01:32):
Welcome back to the Wayfindershow.
I'm your host, Louie Hernandez.
And today I'm here with a reallyinteresting guest that I'm
really excited about.
He's actually helped our showtremendously.
And we're going to talk aboutthat.
His name is Nick Hutchinson andNick is a founder of an
organization calledBookThinkers.
And I'm not even going toattempt to describe them.
(01:53):
I'm going to let him do it foryou.
But, and then I'll let you guysknow a little bit about how he's
changed everything up for us andreally helped the way finder
show get to another level.
So with that, Nick, welcome tothe way finder show.
Yeah.
I'm excited to be here before Idescribe myself.
Can I actually ask you the firstquestion today, Louie?
Go for it.
What's the best book that youread in 2024 so far in 2024?
(02:17):
Yeah.
That's how I love to get to knowpeople.
Great question.
If you've been reading.
Thank you.
You know what?
I think I, when you say 22, Ihave a recency bias, right?
So the one I'm almost done withit, and it's from a guest that
you sent our way.
I no, did you send it our way?
I think you did.
Max Lewis?
Yes.
Yeah.
Who is Max Lewis?
He's awesome.
(02:37):
Yeah.
He's incredible.
I love the guy.
And we've chatted a couple oftimes.
We've had him on the show and hesent me a copy of his book,
which the presentation on thatis just incredible.
But I love a good entrepreneur'sbook.
Journey story, right?
Like the shoe dog or the, say,for, from Phil Knight or Sam
Walton story, those kind of, soit's great when, he's a
(02:59):
relatively unknown entrepreneur,but he is a badass, right?
And his story is just reallyinspiring to me.
Yeah, I think that's probably itof all time, though, it would be
the go giver without question.
Yeah.
The go giver is one of myfavorite books of all time as
well.
I have a fun story about it,which I'll tell you in a minute,
but yeah, Bob Berg and JohnDavid Mann are just two
incredible people.
(03:20):
And I'm a big fan of that bookas well.
And yeah, Max Lewis, I've had achance to spend, so no, we don't
represent him for podcastbooking.
So we probably didn't make theintro.
I don't think, but I have spentsome time with Max in person and
he's a really Yeah.
I bet.
Yeah.
The I'd like to go spend sometime with him next time I go to
Florida, I'm gonna go check himout.
(03:41):
But yeah.
Chatted back and forth.
Neat.
What was, so what is your GoGiver story?
Use.
Ah, yes.
So when I was in the process ofgraduating from college.
Back in 2015, 2016, I wasinterviewing with a bunch of
businesses in the Boston,Massachusetts area.
And one of them was this bigrecruiting company right
(04:02):
downtown Boston.
And I remember as a college kid,taking the elevator up to the
30th floor or something in thishuge office building.
And I had a great interview withthis guy and he tried to hire me
on the spot and I wasn't readyto commit.
Yeah, I wanted to feel aroundand see what other opportunities
were there and I noticed hisbookshelf behind him.
And in that period of my life, Ihad just gotten into books.
(04:24):
And so I said, Hey, I see abunch of books.
What's your favorite?
And he had a bunch of copies ofthe go giver.
So he grabbed one and he slid itacross the desk and he said,
read this book.
And when you come back andaccept the role, then you can
give me my copy back.
And long story short, I didn'tend up accepting that role, but
I did end up reading The GoGiver, and I fell in love with
(04:47):
Bob Berg and John David Mann,and so fast forward a couple of
years, it's now 2017, 2018, andI'm living in Florida, and I
look up Bob Berg, and I see thathe's living in Florida.
And so I reached out to him andbook thinkers was really tiny at
this time.
So it wasn't like I had a goodshot of getting his attention,
(05:07):
but I reached out and I said,Hey Bob, I read your book.
I loved it.
I'd love to come meet you for acoffee sometime and tell you
about the impact it's had on me.
And he said, yes.
I was living in Jacksonville.
He was living in Jupiter.
And he said, meet me at theJupiter Dunkin Donuts at 7am.
And I didn't realize it was likea five hour drive.
So I got up in the middle of thenight, drove all five hours down
(05:29):
to see him hung out with Bob fora few hours.
He's such an amazing, generousperson.
Now, the last piece I'll sayabout this story, and this is
probably the it'll show you whoBob is as a person.
Over the couple of hours, I toldhim everything about me and my
life and my ambitions and mygoals.
I gave him a ton of details.
Years later, when I started mypodcast, I invited him on and he
(05:51):
jumped on and it was like zerotime it passed.
He was referencing names anddates and my goals and all of
this.
detail years later.
Wow.
It just shows you how brilliantof a person he is with his note
taking or his CR, however he didit.
I don't know.
Uhhuh but what a cool guy.
Yeah, really cool guy.
I gotta share my Bob Burke story'cause yeah.
(06:13):
By the time that we, this hascome out, I'll already have
aired, released our hundredthepisode and we're releasing that
hundredth episode is with BobBurke.
Oh, and it's a dream come truefor me.
'cause when we started theWayfinder show, I had a list of
some people to, that wouldeventually signal.
Five success if we had'em on.
And Bob Berg was at the top ofthat list for me.
'cause the book was sosignificant.
(06:33):
But I I don't know if it wasTwitter or Instagram or
something that somebody justput, what's a book you would
read over and over?
And I just put the Go-Giver.
I read it every year.
And and somehow he saw thatcomment and he found me and he's
thank you very much.
And I'm like, oh my God, is thisreally Bob Berg And I, and he
and I'm like, I gotta take myshot, right?
And I'm like, Hey.
(06:54):
Big fan.
Would you come on the Wayfindershow?
And he, right away, he connectsme with this person and we got
him on and it's it wasincredible.
Yeah, it was I was such a fanboy, right?
I'm like a teenage girl meetingTaylor Swift with him, like it
was funny, but yeah, that's howI feel about a lot of the people
in this space as well.
That's amazing.
So tell us about that, man.
I got to know a little bit aboutyour journey with you, you can
(07:17):
go pre book thinkers if you'dlike.
Yeah.
Like what inspired you first ofall who were you prior to book
thinkers?
Yeah, I started book thinkerswhen I was about 21 22 years
old.
So I'll give you a little bit ofcontext before that.
When I was growing up, I hadgreat parents, white picket
fence household, upper middleclass.
I'm the oldest of four boys.
(07:38):
We always had food on the tableand presents under the Christmas
tree.
And they treated us really welland always supported whatever
decisions we made.
So I had the best childhood.
I really did.
And I'm so grateful for that.
But despite all theopportunities given to me, I
never really took full advantageof them.
So I was always living under mypotential, whether it was on the
(07:59):
sports field, I played football,I was captain of the wrestling
team, but.
I could have done so much moreif I really committed to it.
Same thing in the classroom.
I took AP calculus, but I had a0 percent homework average.
So that was always my story,like capable, but living under
my potential.
And I could say the same thingabout most of my college
experience as well.
I was selected to run my ownhouse painting business, which
(08:22):
was an entrepreneurship programat my college.
And although I made it into theprogram, I was the lowest
performing student two years ina row.
So always the worst performingout of the best kids, and I
didn't go to class.
I goofed off.
I negotiated grades with myteachers and but I still wanted
to do something with my life,right?
(08:43):
So I took this internship goinginto my senior year of college
at a local software company, andmy boss at the time introduced
me to the world of podcasts.
I was commuting one hour eachway five days a week.
So I was spending 10 hours aweek in the car just listening
to music like every othercollege kid would and he said to
me Nick Playing the same song orthe same radio station for the
(09:06):
500th time is not going tochange your life But the right
podcast might and so heintroduced me to some shows
where successful people werebeing interviewed And you could
listen to them for free and theywere giving away all of their
secrets Which was just so coolfor me at the time and after a
couple of weeks of listening tothese podcasts I just connected
the dots.
(09:26):
I realized that successfulpeople read and implement books
You Because books condensedecades of somebody else's
greatest life lessons into days.
It's like the greatest cheatcode that was ever given to us.
Yet most people choose The musicover the books or the podcasts.
And so that's when my journeystarted.
That's when I fell in love withpersonal development because the
(09:49):
last thing I'll say about thispart of my life was that, like I
said, I was underachieving inschool.
And so I might show up to aclass all cocky and arrogant,
but the minute that the realconversation started about money
or investing, cause I was inbusiness school, I would shrink
into the back of the class.
And when the conversations wouldcarry out into the hallway with
all the best performingstudents, I would leave and go
(10:11):
to the gym or go to the dininghall or go hang out with my
buds.
So when I went back to school,my senior year, after reading a
bunch of books on personalfinance and investing, I was
leading those conversations.
So my insecurities got turnedinto areas of competence and
confidence.
And so I just, that's why I fellin love with books.
(10:31):
Cause I was like, what otherareas of my life can I start to
improve?
Yeah, that's amazing.
I spent this past week with anold friend of mine who from high
school, but he went to Yale LawSchool, and I can see he's
incredibly well read,intellectual, all around great
guy, but there was a bit of aninsecurity that I had.
I hadn't seen him in two years.
(10:52):
30 years since high school.
I'm a little bit older and andi'm thinking and i've watched
him.
He's been on ted and all thisstuff He's actually a really
fascinating story who shouldwrite a book.
But besides the point he I wasintimidated to go hang out with
him right thinking afterwatching him that he's so
intellectual and so smart andwell read and he's referring to
all these things and by now likeI've read a Almost all the books
(11:13):
and then some that he has and Ijust found myself being able to
hang and as the week went Ibuilt my confidence got bigger
and bigger and maybe in the nextfew weeks will announce we're
launching some big businessventure together, but it made me
feel like really Confident as wewent and I think that's a lot
like your story, right?
(11:33):
Even in now in my late forties,I still had those insecurities,
but then you read and then yougo, you put yourself around
these people that you wereintimidated by before because
you didn't do the work and youstart to realize, Hey, I can
hang.
And all of a sudden yourconfidence starts going through
the roof, right?
Pretty, pretty fast, because I'msure you didn't go in there to
show off all the books you read.
You were just like, Hey, I knowmy stuff, right?
(11:54):
Yeah.
And that's what books give usaccess to the world's best
mentors in every discipline.
Yeah.
There's a great Ted talk that Iwatched speaking of Ted years
and years ago Tai Lopez, thefamous internet market here in
my garage with the Lamborghinis.
He gave a Ted talk one timewhere he said to the audience,
It's imagine Mother Teresa canteach you about giving back.
(12:16):
Imagine Arnold Schwarzeneggercan teach you about
bodybuilding.
Imagine Steve Jobs can teach youabout innovation.
Like how much would that beworth?
And people are throwing outcrazy numbers.
And the reality is there arebooks written by those people
and about those people that areavailable right now.
We can get access to their best.
Mentoring right now.
(12:36):
And yeah, all of us can learnfrom the world's best people and
we can use that information toimprove our own decision making
in our lives, really.
Yeah.
I want to ask you more aboutyour books, but before that, so
let's talk a little bookthinker.
So you got into books, right?
And then how did you create thatinto a business and describe a
little bit about what yourbusiness does as well?
(12:58):
Yeah, sure.
So I went back to school mysenior year and I read a ton of
books and then I graduated and Itook a full time job with that
same software company where Iwas interning and turned down
the go giver opportunity.
But I always knew that althoughI could be a high performing
employee for somebody else, Iknew I always wanted to start my
own business.
So I got together with a coupleof my buddies way back then,
(13:20):
2016 ish, 2017, and we were justmeeting up on a regular basis.
Looking for problems to solvebecause that's what we read.
That's how you start a business.
You look for a problem thatneeds to be solved.
You provide a solution andthat's how you start to build a
business.
That's where the value is inexchange for money.
And so one of the problems thatI started to deal with was that.
(13:43):
I was reading so much.
I was having a hard timeretaining the information from
the books that I had previouslyread.
So somebody might say, Hey Nick,I saw you post about thinking
grow rich by Napoleon Hill.
What was your favorite takeaway?
At a bump into somebody at afamily event or something.
And I'd go, Yeah.
Huh.
What was my favorite takeaway?
I can't even remember.
(14:04):
So the original idea for bookthinkers was actually going to
be a platform, a web app, amobile app, where you could
categorize your favoritetakeaways from each book.
And it would set, send youreminders of your favorite notes
and stuff like that.
And I actually took it prettyfar.
We hired A development companyout of Argentina.
We spent tens of thousands ofdollars and hundreds of hours of
(14:26):
our time trying to build thisthing.
And it totally failed.
The company that was building itwent out of business.
My friends spent too much moneywithout getting any back.
So they decided to leave.
And I was just left with thisInstagram page that originally I
was using it to build anaudience to sell the app into
where I was talking aboutnonfiction books, but the app
(14:46):
fell apart and I was just leftwith an audience of readers.
Who enjoyed my book reviews andI thought, what can I build this
into now?
Right around the same time, Ihad a couple of authors knock on
my door through the DMS and say,Hey Nick, I'd love to get my
book in front of your audience.
Can you help?
And I thought, interesting.
There's another need emergingthat I didn't see previously.
(15:09):
And as I started to work withauthors a little bit more, I
realized that writing andpublishing a book is only half
the battle.
In fact, it's actually much lessthan half the battle.
Most of the battle is gettingthe book out there, getting
people to see it, to buy it, toread it, to review it.
That actually takes a lot moreeffort than it does to write a
good book.
And so that's when the businesswas born.
(15:31):
Now to fast forward until today,right?
BookThinkers is a marketingagency that helps authors
promote and market their books,and I've got about 10 people on
the team now.
We work with hundreds of authorsa year, and we do three major
things.
One is short form videoproduction, where we fly out to
an author and we help themcreate You know, good quality
professional video that sellstheir books.
(15:53):
The second bucket is podcastbooking.
So we'll help authors get infront of the right audiences to
promote and market their booksand tell their stories.
And you've been on the receivingend of that.
We've Placed a lot of greatauthors in front of your
audience.
And the third bucket is thatsocial media book review piece.
Now we have hundreds ofthousands of followers across
our different platforms and withour podcast, and I have a chance
(16:16):
to interview and promote theirwork.
So that's a little bit about thebusiness.
Yeah it's really great, and I'vehad some other authors outside
of that you represent, you don'trepresent, and I've, I see that
problem, I ask them, offline,usually how do they go about
promoting their book, and theydon't know, they've spent so
much time getting, getting it topublish and then they hadn't
thought this piece through, andnobody's heard of the book, and,
(16:38):
what have you, and so I, I knowI've sent a couple your way, and
I know you're meeting with oneof them soon I hope Hopefully
you can get their message outthere because they're pretty
dynamic.
So yeah.
Yeah.
Just like you said, I, just tocap, put a cap on that.
Like I, I really saw thebusiness need when authors would
message me, Hey, can you helppromote market my book?
And I would jump on a call withthem and I'd say, Why do you
(16:59):
need my help?
And they would say somethinglike, Nick, I spent 30 years in
corporate America learning howto be a great leader.
And then I retired and everybodysaid, write a book.
So I spent three years writingthe book and has all my greatest
life lessons in there.
And I put out the book and Ican't get anybody to buy it.
It has millions of dollars ofinformation in it.
(17:21):
It's available for 15 and nobodywants it.
And I feel bad for that person.
Like they're just trying to makethe world a better place.
They've got so much value inthere.
So yeah, the book marketingpiece, like it's definitely
underserved.
Yeah, so why why did you go withpodcasting and social, the old
school way was you just set uplike book signings and talks at
(17:43):
a bookstore, right?
Usually or a cafe and go aroundand, now it seems like podcasts
are that, right?
Did you recognize that early onor was that already happening or
what's the deal there?
Yeah, it's a great question.
I've tried my hand at dozens ofdifferent ways to promote and
market books, dozens ofdifferent methods and strategies
and formats and mediums and alot of them are great.
(18:07):
They're competitive andoversaturated.
So there are thousands ofcompanies that can help you get
a billboard in Times Square for15 seconds.
There are thousands of companiesthat can get you traditional
media, maybe a guest spot on aForbes article or something.
There are thousands of companiesthat serve that traditional book
marketing space, but As Ievaluated the landscape, there
(18:31):
really aren't that manycompanies that serve the digital
landscape, the new age ofmarketing, and there's a few
reasons why.
Number one, it's hard to judgesuccess through social media
book reviews or podcasting, so alot of bigger companies, they
don't want to touch it.
And number two, it's arelationship based game, not a
transactional game.
(18:51):
And so it takes a while, likeyou got to be an insider to
Start networking with othergreat podcasts and to start
building relationships withdifferent social media accounts
that can promote market booksand it's a little bit of a blue
ocean to use a business analogy.
There weren't a lot of peopleserving it.
And so I was.
young enough to have grown upwith social media, but old
(19:14):
enough to run a business.
And so I was in a sweet spot tohelp serving, to start serving
these people.
And even the big publishers,they really don't touch
podcasting or social media.
And so that's where we startedto get a lot of clients from was
like these bigger, moretraditional publishers who just,
they weren't in touch with thecrazy volatility of social
(19:35):
media.
Interesting.
Is there any, you said it'sdifficult to measure.
success with it.
Is there any, has that improvedat all?
Can you tell do book sales go upif they go on a certain podcast?
I'm sure they do in certainpodcasts or is there any way
though, to be able to track anyof that?
Yeah.
What's interesting about, so fortraditionally published authors,
(19:59):
meaning they signed with Penguinor Harper or one of those big
publishers, they really have noaccess to book data.
At least not in real time.
So maybe they'll get a monthlyreport of total number of books
sold, but there's no real way tojudge a podcast success or a
book campaign on social media.
Whereas with a hybrid or a selfpublished author, they're
(20:19):
getting data through Amazon sameday.
And so if a podcast goes liveand they see a spike in book
sales above their average, thenthey can attribute that if it's
the only campaign going live tothe podcast.
So yeah, absolutely.
Now as an agency, book thinkersdoesn't have access to that
data.
The customer does.
So we're relying on them to selfreport, but yeah, absolutely.
(20:43):
And I released my first booklast year called rise of the
reader back in November, just totest the water a little bit so I
could collect my own data.
And I was able to follow alongand see when podcasts launched,
if it created a spike in booksales and they definitely do.
Interesting.
Actually let's talk about that.
Cause I was going to ask you ifyou've written a book.
(21:03):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I put out a book lastNovember called the rise of the
reader strategies for masteringyour reading habits and applying
what you learn, because in mycommunity online on Instagram,
like we'll do a half a millionorganic impressions a month with
just book content.
And so that's a lot of peoplethat see the stuff over the
years, right?
Millions and millions of people.
(21:24):
And over the years, thousands ofpeople have said to me some
version of, Hey, Nick, Iappreciate All of the book
recommendations, but I'm havinga hard time applying the
information.
So what's missing?
I'm reading it.
I'm all excited.
I can envision it happening, butthen I fail to take action.
And so that's the problem I setto solve in my book, rise of the
reader here.
(21:45):
I'll hold up a copy.
There it is right there.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
So it helps people retain andimplement more from the other
books that they're reading.
Okay.
And what are some of thosestrategies?
How long do we have?
I have so many things to tellpeople.
I think the first thing I liketo say is we need to be a little
(22:06):
bit more intentional about whatwe read.
So I think books are a great wayto solve problems.
I think books are a great way tobuild skills.
And then satisfy curiosities andexpose us to new information.
But if your why for reading abook is, I saw it on Instagram,
that's not strong enough.
We need to define a problem thatwe're solving or we need to
(22:29):
define a skill that we want tobuild and why, what is it
connected to?
How is it serving our futureself to read and implement this
information?
When you start with a strongerwhy, Then you'll develop more of
an emotional connection toreading and implementing the
book.
And a great framework for thisis the smart goal framework.
We're all familiar with it forgoal setting, but we never apply
(22:51):
it to the books that we read.
So let's say that I was going topick up here, toss out a book,
toss out any random bestsellingpersonal development book.
Tools of Titans.
Awesome.
So Tools of Titans details.
Like a couple hundred of theworld's most successful people,
tools, tactics, and strategiesfrom the world's most successful
(23:13):
people.
And it has different sections,health, wealth, wisdom, things
like that.
So if I was going to definelet's say I'm a fan of Tim
Ferriss and I'm thinking oftools of Titans.
I've heard that there's somegreat health advice in the book.
Let's start with a why I'mlooking to implement.
And we'll use the smart goalstrategy.
(23:33):
I'm looking to find andimplement at least one new
health routine by the end ofAugust or something like that.
That is specific.
I know exactly why I'm readingthe book.
It's measurable.
By the end of the experience,did I implement one new health
routine?
Is it attainable?
Yes.
50 pounds or.
(23:54):
Do a full distance Ironmantriathlon, but just find and
implement one new healthroutine.
Is it relevant to me?
Am I emotionally connected toit?
Of course I am.
Why?
Let's go a little bit deeper.
I want to find and implement atleast one new health routine
from tools of Titans by the endof August, because I want to be
able to hike Machu Picchu withmy grandkids.
I want to be at every one of mykids T ball games and actively
(24:18):
involved.
You could go on and on andreally get this emotional.
And then.
The T in SMART stands for timebound, by the end of August,
give yourself a deadline to takeaction.
And when you build a SMART goalfor each book that you read, not
only are you more emotionallyconnected to it, but you start
filtering for the rightinformation.
So I'll actually write thatSMART goal on the inside cover
(24:39):
of each book that I read, andI'll review it every time I read
another chapter or another 10,15, 20 pages, because I'm always
refreshing.
What is my goal for this book?
That way everything else meltsaway and only the actionable
information reveals itself thatway.
You're more likely to implementone of those health goals from
Tools of Titans than if you werejust reading it because you like
(25:01):
Tim Ferriss or something.
Yeah, that's really good.
Yeah, one of the reasons whythere's a couple books I read
every year, we mentioned TheGoal Giver.
I read it over because I justfind something new in it every
time.
You just missed it.
I've read it, I don't know, I'veread it like eight or ten times
already.
And still every to this day, Iread a simple little book of
just 120 pages or 23 pages,whatever the and there's always
(25:25):
something new in there that Icatch and then you start to
implement and really focus on itthroughout the year.
So I like what you're saying.
Once you start, you catch it andyou start implementing it and
you have a big why behind it andeverything.
It's, it really sticks, right?
Yeah.
And next time you read The GoGiver, set a smart goal.
Like I'm looking to find andimplement, something related to
(25:46):
the law of reciprocity by theend of August or whatever the
case is.
Play around with it a littlebit.
Yeah.
No, that's a great tip.
Cool.
Do you have any favorite authorsin general that you'd like to
read their stuff?
If they come out, you're goingto pick it up.
Yeah, there, there are a numberof them.
I love Ryan holiday.
Yeah.
And although I'm one or twobooks behind on the stoic virtue
(26:09):
series right now, I've read atleast 10 Ryan holiday books and
I'm a big fan of his writingstyle and stoic philosophy in
general.
I'm a really big fan of RobertGreen.
Huh.
48 Laws of Power and all of hisother books.
I think Robert Greene is abrilliant writer.
I love Tim Ferriss.
The four hour work weekspecifically had such an
(26:29):
amazing, incredible impact on mylife.
Yeah.
So those are some of myfavorites right there.
What about you?
Same man.
I think I would definitely putRyan Holiday, if whatever he
writes, I'll pick up, I likebiographies a lot.
So whatever Walter Isaacsonwrites, I love, he's my favorite
biographer by far.
That guy's incredible, I don'tknow.
(26:49):
I'm joined.
We joined it back at me, man,and he kept me off guard, but
those are two.
Yeah.
I really like a lot.
Yeah, I'll throw out a couple ofothers for people.
I love Darren Hardy and thecompound effect.
Darren Hardy has a very clear,actionable writing style.
And he wrote The Power of Habittoo, right?
Was that him?
(27:09):
That was Charles Duhigg.
Oh, Duhigg, my bad.
Yeah.
Cause they were similar.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Very similar though.
When Atomic Habits and theSlight Edge, those two books,
they're all in the same bucket,but they're all, You know what?
I love to do is I love to pickup a subject like habits and
then go really deep on it.
Read four or five books on thesame subject, even if it's
slightly repetitive.
(27:30):
We have to remember thatrepetition leads to retention.
So if you go really deep on asubject and you truly understand
it, the likelihood that you'llremember it.
Goes up, which is a good thing.
Any so obviously big into theself help self development
books.
What other genres do you like,or do you just stick to that?
Under the genres of likepersonal development and self
(27:51):
help, I read a lot of business,I read a lot of philosophy.
I read a lot of psychology.
I read a lot about personalfinance and investing habits,
which I guess falls under psych,psychology a little bit.
I love those subjects.
I don't read much historicalnonfiction.
(28:12):
I don't read much fiction atall.
Every year I read a couple offiction books, I just haven't
branched into that world yet.
What about you?
Yeah, same.
I keep trying every year.
I'd say, I've been reading somuch of this nonfiction self
development stuff that I try topick up a fiction book every
once in a while just to do itand it's become harder and
(28:33):
harder as I get older.
I feel like I'm wasting my time.
But I do I do think there's realvalue in it.
For sure.
We had a, was it CharlesSpinoza.
Did you send him our way?
I did.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He, I love the conversation thatwe had about the humanities and
how you can learn aboutleadership and business and all
that through it.
And it got me more interested towant to go back and read some
(28:55):
again and maybe just view itthrough that lens.
Cause I do think when you getthe stories, I think that's why,
Books like The Go Giver and likeRich Dad, Poor Dad or The
Alchemist, those fables arefiction books, but they teach
these morals, that are justgreat.
And and they stick better thatway.
Yeah, they do.
I love the alchemist.
I'll yeah, that's a book that Iread every single year and I'll
(29:19):
tell you an interestingreflection and this may be
obvious to people.
This may be obvious to you.
It may be obvious to people inthe audience, but I've probably
read the alchemist like five orsix times.
And this most recent time I wasthinking about alchemy as
personal development.
And I was thinking about the rawmaterials as like our reality.
So you take any random metal.
(29:41):
Take any random lifecircumstance or situation or
business opportunity.
And it's an alchemist.
Somebody with a personaldevelopment mindset that can
mold their surroundings intoabundance.
And I never thought about itthat way.
But anyway, that was my takeawaythis time.
That's awesome.
Yeah, that's a classic, right?
And just about everybody's readthat probably in high school or
(30:03):
something, right?
And I've read it a few timestoo.
But, yeah, I should add it to myannual reader list.
Just in case.
Yeah.
So you've written a book.
You read a lot.
How much reading do you do?
About how much, would you say?
About two books a week, twobooks a week.
Wow.
Yeah.
For anybody in the audience,who's rolling their eyes, like
I, it's my full time job, I getpaid to read and promote books.
(30:25):
So I read about two books a weekright now.
You got a very enviable job.
And do you actually read it oryou listen to them?
Both I prefer reading, butaudible.
So there's a fact that we, thatI'll state, which is that.
(30:45):
80 percent of the inputs to ourbrain are visual.
So by default, if we're onlylistening to something and we're
multitasking because we'redriving or we're at the gym or
we're doing chores or whatever,the likelihood that we retain
and actually implement theinformation goes way down if
(31:07):
we're just listening, which iswhy I prefer to read a physical
paper book.
It's an act of monotasking.
It's fully focusing on one thingat the expense of everything
else.
That's the best way that we willdevelop a relationship with
information.
But man, Audible is just soincredibly convenient, isn't it?
And sometimes, there's somebooks that I feel are meant to
(31:29):
be listened to than read.
For example, I don't know ifwhat's his name Matthew
McConaughey, Green Lights.
Yeah, that was a greataudiobook.
Oh my god, you can't read, Imean you can read it too.
Go ahead and read it, but youhave to listen to it.
Yeah, I agree.
It's so well done.
I agree.
I have Like Will by Will Smith,same thing, he narrates an
(31:50):
amazing book.
And I also like listening tobiographies, so all of Walter
Isaacson's books, I listen tothem and I really enjoy because
it plays like a movie in yourhead a little bit.
Yeah.
And when the the author reads itin their voice, there's a,
there's something about like youfeel like they're talking to
you, right?
So it's, I don't know, like Ithought Matthew McConaughey.
(32:10):
Was reading his book to me, orthere's one I like with Dina
Castor, the former OlympicOlympic marathoner that I, I
would read every time I listenedto it.
Actually, I read it first and Ilistened to it before when I'm
in the taper phase of a marathonand I just feel it, she's
talking to me like, yeah.
All right, Louie, go, be tough.
When you get to this mile, allthis stuff, like it, it's cool.
(32:33):
Yeah.
Yeah.
A little bit.
I feel that way too with DavidGoggins.
I'll normally listen to Can'tHurt Me and the Reflections
Between Chapters, which he'sactually, doing the Q and a and
yeah.
He always kicks my butt, whichis nice.
Yeah.
You want to get pumped.
Did you read the one that puthim on the map by Jesse Itzler?
(32:54):
What was it called?
Living with a seal.
Yeah.
Living with a seal.
Yeah.
And that's an amazing audio bookbecause Jesse is so good at
telling stories.
Yeah.
That's a guy, by the way,talking about, he writes
anything I'll listen, I'll readit, yeah.
Me too.
Yeah, I also identify herbecause we're about the same age
kind of same era, you knowDefinitely not the same net
worth yet.
(33:14):
I'm coming for you.
Just but yeah, I get it Yeah,Jesse's awesome.
One of my, one of my bestfriends here at home, he did one
of those hell on the hill eventswith Jesse.
Oh yeah.
I've been thinking of doing thatone year.
Yeah.
That's cool.
I might sign up for one too.
Maybe we'll go together.
That'd be cool, man.
Yeah.
What what year are you thinkingof doing next year?
(33:35):
I don't know.
I'm I'll tell you what I justgot into endurance sports.
I just did my first sprinttriathlon and I have a spark
race in two weeks and I haveanother sprint triathlon in
September.
So I'm like just getting intoit.
I've always been in the gym, butnow I'm getting my cardio up
there.
Do you find that reading all ofthese books somehow leads you,
if you weren't on that path ofphysical fitness and in
(33:58):
particular endurance, I thinkthere's just a different type of
mental toughness that comes withit.
And I notice people, it soundslike we read a lot of the same
kind of books and I don't knowwhich comes first, it's a
chicken and egg theory, butsomehow people get back to him,
whether it's biking or cyclingor mountain climbing or
whatever, right?
Tries.
That goes, do you agree thatthere's some kind of correlation
(34:20):
there?
Yes, I do agree.
I have always been an athlete.
I've always played basketballand I've been in the gym
weightlifting.
That's what I've always enjoyed.
I've never enjoyed endurancesports, but we just had James
Lawrence, the iron cowboy on ourpodcast, and he got me all amped
up.
And then I watched hisdocumentary and About a hundred
(34:43):
full distance triathlons and ahundred days, like crazy.
And we've worked with a fewother people like that.
We've got this guy, StevenPivnick, who wrote a book called
built to finish, and he didn'tget into Ironman triathlons
until he was in his forties.
And now he's in his fifties andhe travels all over the world to
do them.
And he competed in Kona and Ijust, yeah, those things get me
(35:04):
off the couch and they get memoving.
So I think that the books led meto endurance sports.
Absolutely.
Yeah, it's amazing, right?
Yeah, we got to get you out toColorado, man.
It's like the lifestyle here.
Just read these and do all thisendurance stuff.
Funny story about that.
I was actually in Vail all weekwith a friend I was telling you
about planning out this businessand we went to this diner.
(35:25):
And and we had lunch with thesetwo ladies about the business
and the and the waiter, theowner of the restaurant comes
over, he's an older gentleman,very successful place.
And then before you know it,they're crowded.
And like those two ladies,because they're from Vail, they
know like everybody there andthey're all coming and talking
about, what do you know, what doyou think they're talking about?
This race, that they're runningthis race or, whether it was
(35:47):
biking or cycling, they were alltalking about their personal
best that they're doing like intheir sixties and seventies.
Like kicking butt, podiuming,right?
And then yeah.
And I read about this persondoing that, it's just a
conversation that kind of meldstogether like that.
It's funny.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's such a good world.
And I, by the way, I loveColorado.
My best friend, my cousin Conand he lives down in Colorado
(36:08):
Springs.
Oh yeah.
And I was there a month ago.
So had we linked, I would havelinked up with you.
We had a lot of time to kill oneof the days.
Oh, man.
Next time, now you know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's true.
It would be an honor.
I'd be happy to host you.
All other books.
Let's say, you've named a lot ofbig names that we both know.
I'd like to know some, maybe, ofyour guests who aren't as well
(36:31):
known.
You got some, not your guests,your clients.
You've also got some really,I've seen your clientele, and
there's some big ones there too.
But, that we need to read.
Like we started with Max Lewis,I think people will know who Max
Lewis is, but maybe not yet.
Who are those people up andcoming?
Yeah I love people that are upand coming.
(36:52):
Just like you highlighted.
I think I'll give a couple ofdifferent categories.
So one of my buddies, his nameis Chris Paniotto.
He wrote a book calledcapitalize your finances and
it's very based.
Very basic personal financeliteracy.
Money coming in, money goingout, the money that's between
(37:12):
those two things.
What do you do with it?
How do you manage your ownfinances?
It's fun.
It's uplifting.
It's easy.
And he's in his early thirtiesand I, he's got a long runway
ahead of him and he's going tokeep kicking butt.
So in the personal financeworld, I recommend that.
I just mentioned another one inkind of the fitness world, which
is Steven Pivnick.
He just wrote that book built tofinish.
(37:34):
He was a very successful techCEO, exited a company for a lot
of money and now he's intoendurance sports.
So there's good businesslessons.
About business endurance.
And then there's good lessonsabout fitness endurance as well.
A lot of marathons, a lot offull distance Ironman
triathlons, and he's only juststarted producing content, but I
think he's in it for the longhaul.
(37:56):
And I really enjoy his work.
In the business world as well,read Tyleston.
He just put out a book calledgrid, grid it done.
We think about entrepreneurshipas startup culture.
You got to start your ownbusiness from scratch in your
garage, right?
Steve and Steve or bill orsomething like that.
And that's not always the case.
(38:17):
There's this.
Silver tsunami of baby boomersretiring and they don't have
anybody to give their businessesto.
And yeah, Reid Tyleston wrote anentire book about
entrepreneurship throughacquisition, buying up these
businesses at a big discountthat already have the
infrastructure in place and theyjust need to be updated.
They're already profitable andyou can use government back
(38:39):
loans to buy them.
And so he's only just startedhis journey of creating content
as well, but I'm a really bigfan of his.
So those are a couple to name afew.
Yeah.
And I got to thank you again,because Reed is somebody that we
had on the show.
Thanks to you.
And you're absolutely right.
He's incredibly impressive.
And that is a great concept thatis catching steam.
Now you're starting to see a fewmore people and influencers
(39:01):
coming out in that space.
About buying them.
I think he what made him standout from some of the others was
he focuses specifically onExisting franchises which is
even better because these aremulti generational time proven
systems that you're buying.
So the risk really goes down Soyeah He's a smart guy.
And we've worked with andinterviewed some incredible
(39:22):
people like Cardone and PBD.
And we've had Hormozy and RyanHoliday and Robert Green and all
of those people.
And they're all amazing in theirown right.
But I'll tell you my favoriteguest.
He's been on our show threetimes and we've done some work
with him.
Steven Pressfield.
Have you read any of his books?
Why does that ring a bell?
(39:43):
Could you tell me?
Probably the War of Art is hisbest.
Yeah, I haven't read it, but Ihave it on my list.
Yeah, it's all about overcomingresistance.
Why do we wake up with all themotivation in the world, but
still snooze that alarm clockand not get out of bed?
And how do you overcome it?
So that's what, he's written alot of books, fiction and non
fiction.
But man, you know what, my mostrecent interview with him, he's
(40:05):
80 years old.
And one of the reasons I likehim is the people that I look up
to, like Tim Ferriss or RyanHolliday or even Joe Rogan, who
do they look up to?
They look up to StevenPressfield.
And Steven Pressfield is justthe nicest guy on the planet.
I had a chance to film somecontent earlier last year at his
(40:27):
house in Malibu and he's had itsince I was born.
It's just such a beautifulproperty, him and his partner,
just so incredibly kind.
And I asked him about, Like, whydo people in my generation, why
can we not delay gratification?
Why do we need things today?
Why do we need to make moneytoday and become famous today
and get a million views today?
(40:48):
And he just talked about how itwas for him growing up.
He wrote for 35 years beforemaking a dollar from his
writing.
Wow.
And it made me question am Iwilling to do the work I'm doing
right now for 35 years if Iwasn't going to get paid?
Is that how much I love it?
Because that's what it takes fora real professional to sell
millions and millions of books.
(41:10):
Yeah.
So it's just cool to learn fromsomebody like that.
And I love to see that he'sstill doing it at 80 years old.
Yeah, totally.
It's something that's been on mymind a lot.
I was on a podcast the other dayand I was asked, what is it,
what inspires me?
Like, why do I do what I, and Ithought I want to be able to
make sure that our futuregenerations, my, my generation,
(41:30):
My lineages, future generations,and others, communities I come
from that were underprivilegedand had to get out of that
survival mode at first, would beable to pursue a passion so
deeply that they could do that,right?
Because it takes a lot ofprivilege to be able to do that,
right?
To really just not make anymoney for 35 years off of a
passion.
(41:51):
But just pursue it.
And you reach true mastery thatway.
And, you can producetranscendental work, but like
it'd be, wouldn't it be great ifwe can provide enough so that
our kids can like change, theway the world works for the
better because through theirwork, not just trying to figure
out, Hey, how to just, surviveor what have you, or just make
(42:12):
good money or all that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm motivated by that in asimilar way.
My wife and I are expecting ourfirst baby in October.
Congratulations.
Quick.
Yeah.
Thank you.
I love it.
Do you know what you're having?
Yeah.
Two.
I have two teenage girls now, sowe're almost an empty nester,
which I know we're running along time, but I actually did
write another non relatedquestion.
(42:34):
I've got some time.
Hit me.
Thank you.
You've been a digital nomad.
Thank you.
Yes.
Yeah.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
Give some advice as to how to goabout it.
My wife and I, we're looking atbecoming empty nesters in the
next three years.
Our youngest is going to begraduating high school in three
years and, we're hoping to kickher out of the house and have
the freedom to go travel theworld.
(42:54):
Which will be the first time inour lives that, we weren't able
to do this in our twenties or,in our teens and now we're
starting to plan for that andit's becoming real.
Love to get your experience,your advice.
All that.
Yeah, I'll start with a bookrecommendation slash story and
then I'll jump into it.
Because I'm a big fan of TimFerriss and I follow Tim and I
listen to his podcasts and I payattention to what he pays
(43:16):
attention to.
At one point I stumbled across abook called Vagabonding by Rolf
Potts.
Now, Rolf is not up and coming,but this is a little known book.
So most people probably haven'theard of it before.
And the subtitle is somethinglike, The Uncommon Art of Long
Term World Travel, somethinglike that.
(43:38):
And I heard Tim mention thatDuring a lot of his travels, he
only kept a couple things withhim consistently.
And one was a copy of that book.
So I bought it back in 2016,2017.
And it talked about how inAmerica, in the West, we have
this view that travel isreserved for the rich and
famous, right?
And that at most the averageAmerican family can maybe take a
(44:01):
week off once a year.
And you blow all your money onsome all inclusive resort, in
the Caribbean or something.
And that's what we all think of.
You have to apply for time off,whatever.
But Rolf proposes a differentversion of traveling, and it's a
travel with a personaldevelopment focus.
Like he says, you can discoverwhole new continents within
(44:21):
yourself.
If you look at travel throughhis lens and he has lines in the
book, like the slow nuancedexperience of one country is
better than the fast superficialexperience of a dozen, like
different things like that.
So I decided to go on my firsttrip, my first solo travel trip
(44:43):
back around that same time Ibooked five weeks in Buenos
Aires, Argentina, because that'swhere Tim Ferris went.
And I was like, I'm going tofollow in his footsteps.
So I didn't know anybody.
In South America, I didn't speakany Spanish, but I just booked
five weeks.
I looked up what area to stayin.
I bought an Airbnb and I went.
And the first day was one of thelongest days of my life.
(45:05):
I didn't know how to get a taxi.
I didn't know how to exchangecurrency.
I didn't even know how to getwater at the local supermarket
because I didn't have currencyand they didn't accept cards.
I had to figure it all out on myown.
I was so scared about orderingat restaurants.
Like how am I going to meetpeople at bars?
It was so incredibly stressful.
And after one day there, Ithought I'm weighing over my
(45:26):
head.
Five weeks is way too long, butfast forward until the end of
the trip.
When I was leaving, I was like,five weeks was way too short.
I wish I was staying hereforever.
So that's when I fell in lovewith travel as a form of
personal development and growth.
I'm wearing a shirt right nowthat says seek discomfort and
that's what travel gives you theability to do.
Every day because everything isnovel and novelty creates
(45:49):
memories and emotion.
So I'll wrap up by saying this,my wife and I, over the last
five or six years have spenttime in over 25 different
countries.
And sometimes for up to threemonths at a time, like we did
three months in Columbia, SouthAmerica, a month in Iceland or
whatever.
And man, we just love it.
(46:10):
And I'm just, I'm obsessed withtravel.
If I didn't have book thinkers,maybe I would have travel
thinkers or something like that.
I love it.
Hey, man, that's sounds like thenext big thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
As a form of personaldevelopment.
I love that.
That was, what a great, you cancoin that for sure.
You probably should.
I'm, if you don't, I'mtrademarking that after this
(46:32):
episode.
All right, I'll go run and doit.
Yeah.
Along those lines, were there,that's great tips about, from,
and I'm going to pick up thatbook, Vagabonding for sure.
I'm curious if there were anyspecial places like, where you
would actually be willing tomove to, like to that extent.
If I didn't have family in theMassachusetts area and My wife
(46:53):
didn't have family in theMassachusetts area, which is
more of it.
Yeah, there are some places thatI would live at least for short
periods of time.
I would love to live in Iceland.
I love Iceland.
We've been four times.
It's clean, amazing food wildlandscape.
(47:14):
Friendly people, one of thesafest countries on the planet.
All those Nordic countries areall really safe.
I love all of them that we'vevisited so far.
I love the Greek islands.
I love Greek food, Mediterraneanvibes.
Yeah.
And some of the lesser knownones, like the party islands are
fun, Santorini and Mykonos.
(47:34):
But if you get off the beatentrack to some of the smaller
islands, They're reallyinexpensive.
It's amazing weather during thesummer.
It's like mild, but you canstill go to the beach.
The food is so good.
All of the healthy veg, veggiesand olive oils and the wines,
like you can drink as much asyou want and wake up and you're
sober the next morning.
(47:55):
Like it's amazing.
None of it, none of the likeweed is fortified and none of
the wines are sulfated.
Like it's just so good.
And then to offer one more, Welove Columbia.
We've been a few times, like Isaid, we spent three months in
Medellin.
We spent time in some of theColombian islands and some of
the coastal cities as well.
And I love Columbia.
(48:16):
It's really inexpensive.
It's become sort of a tech hub,a digital nomad hub for South
America.
And you're, the U S dollar justgoes so much farther down there.
Yeah fun fact my family'sactually Colombian from
Medellin.
Yeah.
Oh, really?
So yeah, I lived in I grew up inColombian enclaves in the US
basically, but yeah I'm alsofrom New England and there's
(48:36):
quite a few Colombians andEnclave, there's quite a few
Colombian enclaves and you knowin Massachusetts East Boston is
a big Colombian enclave, right?
Yeah.
Do you visit very oftenMedellin?
No, I don't.
I just got a hard time becausemy friend who I was telling you
about that we were in Vail allweek he's also from Columbia.
He's met, and he was actuallyborn there from Medellin and we
(48:57):
went to high school together andeverything.
And he gives me a hard timecause I haven't gone.
And yeah.
And, my whole family.
And so I got to go, but yeah.
Yeah.
With your age, you said you'relate forties, for a lot of.
For a lot of like your teenageyears, Medellin was not a place
that you would want to be.
And it's funny about the worldlike that.
I have a friend who was born andraised in Medellin or outside of
(49:20):
it.
And he lives in Canada now.
And one of the times that I wentback, he visited and I got to go
see his family home and reallyget outside of the city.
And he was just telling storiesand it's I want to visit every
country on the planet.
And there are some countriestoday that you would go you're
not going to be able to visitAfghanistan or Iraq, but yeah,
you can in 20 or 30 years, theymight be tourist destinations.
(49:42):
Like you don't know.
So yeah.
Yeah.
Who knows what the uprisingthat's happening in Venezuela,
we might be able to go theresoon again.
Cuba had opened up a couple ofyears ago, you never know.
Yeah.
You never know.
I, my wife and I got married inAruba, which is only 16 miles
off the coast of Venezuela, butit's funny, 16 miles.
And then all of a sudden youcan't visit there.
(50:02):
Like it's just so wild.
Yeah.
All right.
So Nick we're at that point ofthe show.
I feel like I can talk to youforever, man.
And I'd love to have you back onsometime and, maybe have more
regular talk because I think, Ifeel like you, we were very
similar in our interests andquest for knowledge and self
development.
I think so too.
(50:23):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thank you.
But with that, I wanted to, soyou can get back to work and
reading, I did want to ask you,our world famous Wayfinder four.
So are you ready?
I am as ready as I could be.
Let's go.
All right.
So give us a hack that you useevery day.
My morning walk with my dog isthe first thing I do every day.
(50:47):
I get the exercise endorphinsflowing.
I get some sunlight in myeyeballs before I consume any
caffeine.
I try to do a little bit ofgrounding in the backyard once
we get back.
And it's also a form of walkingmeditation for me.
No music, no headphones,nothing.
And that one hour in the morningsets me up for the rest of the
day.
So I love my morning walks.
(51:11):
Love it.
And it costs nothing.
Yeah, absolutely.
For me, it's a run.
But yeah, I agree.
I'm just getting out in themorning outdoors.
It's just great So what about afavorite book is what I'll toss
out there right now I'm goingthrough 10x is easier than 2x by
Dan Sullivan and dr.
Benjamin Hardy for a third time.
(51:32):
Oh Yeah, I it's helping to growmy business in crazy ways.
I actually just signed up for astrategic coach and had my first
session with them as well.
So I'm a really big fan of ofthat book.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And they're authors thatanything they write that they're
going back to favorite authors.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
That's a good one.
(51:52):
We've reviewed that, that bookon the show as well.
What about a piece of advice foryour younger self?
Give me an age.
How old is my younger self?
Yeah.
You're pretty young already.
So I, we used to I'll tell youwhen we started this show, we we
would ask, give us a piece ofadvice you would ask you would
(52:13):
give to your 25 year old self.
But then we started having thesereally bad ass people who were
25 or younger.
So we changed it to youngerself, whatever that means for
you, man.
I don't know.
It could be your 18 year oldself, your 25 year old self, I
would go back.
I would go back to my 20 yearold self.
Okay.
I started reading these booksand I would say you're on the
(52:34):
right path.
Give myself a little bit ofcertainty because where I am
today, 10 years later is exactlywhere I want it to be.
And I had a lot of uncertainty.
I didn't know if I was on theright path and if reading and
implementing these books wouldget me there, but they
absolutely did.
And so I would say you're on theright path, man, keep doing it.
I love that.
(52:54):
I love that.
So much positivity in that too.
So that's cool.
So many times I hear peoplefocus on what they weren't doing
that they should have beendoing, but your messaging is so
reinforcing.
This is why you're going to be agreat dad, man.
So I'm excited.
Yeah, I bet.
But do you know what you'rehaving by the way?
Yeah, we're having a boy.
Nice.
All right.
And you got names already or youkeep it.
(53:15):
We've got a couple that werekicking around, but we haven't
picked on yet.
Yeah.
Yeah, but I'll tell you what,cause you love Ryan holiday
right now.
I'm reading the daily dad everyday.
It's like the daily stoic, butit's parenting advice.
It's really good.
Yeah.
My, my parents, my kids actuallygot it from me for Christmas
because they know I love Ryanholiday.
So that's awesome.
And every year they get me oneof those daily somethings, I've
(53:37):
gotten daily stoic from her,just a daily calendar.
So that was cool.
How about a big opportunity?
Because I am stepping intofatherhood now, there's a
natural extension of mybusiness, BookThinkers, that
would serve kids who want tofocus on personal development
(53:58):
style information and parents.
Thanks.
who want to work on childhooddevelopment and understand how
to be the best version ofthemselves.
So that's the type of materialthat I'm starting to read
outside of my paid book reviewsand things like that.
So books like the seven habitsof highly effective families,
which I didn't know existed andbooks like the daily dad.
(54:19):
And also, Andy Frisella justsent me all of his kids books.
And I just got Jocko Willink'skids books.
And I just got Rory Vaden's kidbook.
And it's Oh, there's this wholeother market that I think I'm
going to tackle and develop a,another brand inside of.
So yeah, I think I'm going to gotackle that niche.
That's one opportunity I'mexcited about.
(54:40):
Oh, that's a great one, man.
It's huge.
The market there is massive andit, yeah, it's great.
More power to you, man.
That's really good.
So yeah, Nick, man, this hasreally been a big joy.
If people want to know a littlebit more about you or book
thinkers, where should we sendthem to?
Send them to Instagram at bookthinkers.
(55:00):
And I'll tell you what, ifanybody has listened to this
conversation today and you'relike, you know what?
I think I should start readingagain.
Then shoot me a direct messageon Instagram at book thinkers
and tell me about a problem thatyou're facing or tell me about a
skill that you want to build.
And I'll recommend a book foryou because like I said, I've
read hundreds and hundreds ofthese now, and I just love
(55:21):
providing custom bookrecommendations to people.
Oh man.
I love that.
Okay thank you.
That's really generous.
Yeah Nick it's been a real joy.
I really wasn't sure what toexpect.
I just felt like a deep immenseof Level of gratitude to you.
Like I said for helping us we'vedefinitely stepped up as a show.
I believe with the guests thatwe have in the wisdom We're able
(55:43):
to share with the world fromthem and that's a big big reason
for that is because of you andyour team and what you guys are
doing.
So I'm really grateful and nowgetting to know you here on the
show.
I hope we have you back and wehave more of these from time to
time.
Yeah.
Can I do you have a couple moreminutes?
Can I wrap up with one otherstory real quick?
Go for it, man.
Okay, so this'll, this'll be akickback to you in a second, but
(56:05):
I want to tell the story.
So last year, last summer, mywife and I were on our honeymoon
and we were popping aroundEurope and we ended up in a
place called Dubrovnik, Croatia.
Now Dubrovnik is a small citypopulation about 60, 000 and we
were actually staying outside ofDubrovnik.
In a little beach area about 30minutes away.
(56:26):
So there might be like athousand people that live there.
It was really tiny.
And anyway, we're on our walkover to a restaurant and we
passed another restaurant.
And my wife said, Hey, tomorrownight, I'd love to eat here.
So we looked at the line to makea reservation.
It was really long.
So we went we had our drinks,whatever, and on our walk back,
we were going to make areservation.
And unfortunately it was closed.
(56:47):
It was all boarded up.
Nobody was out eating anymore.
We stayed out pretty late.
And she was all bumming.
And I said, you know what?
Let me go inside and see ifthere's somebody cleaning up
that can help.
So I jiggled the door and it wasopen and I walked into this
restaurant and there wassomebody kind of doing
silverware in the back andcleaning up.
And I said, Hey, excuse me, I'mon my honeymoon.
(57:07):
My wife wants a reservationtomorrow night.
Is there any way you can helpme?
And this guy turns around and hesays, yeah, I can help.
By the way, I'm a huge fan.
And I was like, a huge fan ofwhat I'm getting goosebumps.
And he says, book thinkers, man,your company, your book
recommendations, your podcast,the whole thing.
And I have one of those momentswhere I'm like, did I drink too
(57:28):
much?
Like I'm on the, I'm on theother side of the world in this
tiny little beach villageoutside of a tiny city.
And this guy's a fan of bookthinkers.
And, we got to talking and hetalked about all of these really
intricate details that I've onlyshared on like Instagram stories
from years ago and stuff likethat.
And man, the energy and thegratitude that I received from
(57:49):
him, I still think about italmost every day right now.
And as a creator, sometimes whenyou're producing content like a
podcast, you don't know ifpeople are receiving positive
impact every day.
Like you don't always hear back.
So here's my call to action foryour audience.
If anybody's still listening tomy crazy story, reach out to
Louie.
(58:09):
Say thank you.
He's putting in all this timeand effort to produce such a
great show and he's sharing somuch incredible wisdom with you.
So review the show.
It's hard to get reviews.
Reach out, shoot him a note,shoot him a DM, say thank you
because As a creator, we onlyfeel the impact when we get the
feedback.
Like this guy had been followingme for years in Croatia.
(58:30):
He never reached out because hedidn't think that I would see
the note.
He didn't think I wasaccessible.
I was creating all this impactand I had no idea until I bumped
into him at a restaurant atnight.
Let's be a little bit moreforthright with that gratitude.
Man.
So I just wanted to wrap up andgive that little call to action
for your audience.
And hopefully you get a coupleof cool messages.
Thank you, man.
I really appreciate it.
(58:51):
That means a lot.
So it's been a real joy.
Nick.
Thank you Yeah, it really hasman.
We hope you've enjoyed TheWayfinder Show.
If you got value from thisepisode, please take a few
seconds to leave us a 5 starrating and review.
This will allow us to help morepeople find their way to live
more authentic and excitinglives.
(59:11):
We'll catch you on the nextepisode.
My boss at the time introducedme to the world of podcasts.
I was commuting one hour eachway, five days a week.
So I was spending 10 hours aweek in the car, just listening
to music like every othercollege kid would.
And he said to me, Nick, playingthe same song or the same radio
station for the 500th time isnot going to change your life.
But the right podcast might.
(00:22):
And so he introduced me to someshows where successful people
were being interviewed and youcould listen to them for free
and they were giving away all oftheir secrets, which was just so
cool for me at the time.
And after a couple of weeks oflistening to these podcasts, I
just connected the dots.
I realized that successfulpeople read and implement books
because books condense decadesof somebody else's greatest life
(00:44):
lessons into days.
It's like the greatest cheatcode that was ever given to us.
Welcome to The Wayfinder Showwith Luis Hernandez, where
guests discuss the why and howof making changes that led them
(01:06):
down a more authentic path orallow them to level up in some
area of their life.
Our goal is to dig deep andprovide not only knowledge, but
actionable advice to help youget from where you are to where
you want to be.
Come join us and find the way toyour dream life.
(01:32):
Welcome back to the Wayfindershow.
I'm your host, Louie Hernandez.
And today I'm here with a reallyinteresting guest that I'm
really excited about.
He's actually helped our showtremendously.
And we're going to talk aboutthat.
His name is Nick Hutchinson andNick is a founder of an
organization calledBookThinkers.
And I'm not even going toattempt to describe them.
(01:53):
I'm going to let him do it foryou.
But, and then I'll let you guysknow a little bit about how he's
changed everything up for us andreally helped the way finder
show get to another level.
So with that, Nick, welcome tothe way finder show.
Yeah.
I'm excited to be here before Idescribe myself.
Can I actually ask you the firstquestion today, Louie?
Go for it.
What's the best book that youread in 2024 so far in 2024?
(02:17):
Yeah.
That's how I love to get to knowpeople.
Great question.
If you've been reading.
Thank you.
You know what?
I think I, when you say 22, Ihave a recency bias, right?
So the one I'm almost done withit, and it's from a guest that
you sent our way.
I no, did you send it our way?
I think you did.
Max Lewis?
Yes.
Yeah.
Who is Max Lewis?
He's awesome.
(02:37):
Yeah.
He's incredible.
I love the guy.
And we've chatted a couple oftimes.
We've had him on the show and hesent me a copy of his book,
which the presentation on thatis just incredible.
But I love a good entrepreneur'sbook.
Journey story, right?
Like the shoe dog or the, say,for, from Phil Knight or Sam
Walton story, those kind of, soit's great when, he's a
(02:59):
relatively unknown entrepreneur,but he is a badass, right?
And his story is just reallyinspiring to me.
Yeah, I think that's probably itof all time, though, it would be
the go giver without question.
Yeah.
The go giver is one of myfavorite books of all time as
well.
I have a fun story about it,which I'll tell you in a minute,
but yeah, Bob Berg and JohnDavid Mann are just two
incredible people.
(03:20):
And I'm a big fan of that bookas well.
And yeah, Max Lewis, I've had achance to spend, so no, we don't
represent him for podcastbooking.
So we probably didn't make theintro.
I don't think, but I have spentsome time with Max in person and
he's a really Yeah.
I bet.
Yeah.
The I'd like to go spend sometime with him next time I go to
Florida, I'm gonna go check himout.
(03:41):
But yeah.
Chatted back and forth.
Neat.
What was, so what is your GoGiver story?
Use.
Ah, yes.
So when I was in the process ofgraduating from college.
Back in 2015, 2016, I wasinterviewing with a bunch of
businesses in the Boston,Massachusetts area.
And one of them was this bigrecruiting company right
(04:02):
downtown Boston.
And I remember as a college kid,taking the elevator up to the
30th floor or something in thishuge office building.
And I had a great interview withthis guy and he tried to hire me
on the spot and I wasn't readyto commit.
Yeah, I wanted to feel aroundand see what other opportunities
were there and I noticed hisbookshelf behind him.
And in that period of my life, Ihad just gotten into books.
(04:24):
And so I said, Hey, I see abunch of books.
What's your favorite?
And he had a bunch of copies ofthe go giver.
So he grabbed one and he slid itacross the desk and he said,
read this book.
And when you come back andaccept the role, then you can
give me my copy back.
And long story short, I didn'tend up accepting that role, but
I did end up reading The GoGiver, and I fell in love with
(04:47):
Bob Berg and John David Mann,and so fast forward a couple of
years, it's now 2017, 2018, andI'm living in Florida, and I
look up Bob Berg, and I see thathe's living in Florida.
And so I reached out to him andbook thinkers was really tiny at
this time.
So it wasn't like I had a goodshot of getting his attention,
(05:07):
but I reached out and I said,Hey Bob, I read your book.
I loved it.
I'd love to come meet you for acoffee sometime and tell you
about the impact it's had on me.
And he said, yes.
I was living in Jacksonville.
He was living in Jupiter.
And he said, meet me at theJupiter Dunkin Donuts at 7am.
And I didn't realize it was likea five hour drive.
So I got up in the middle of thenight, drove all five hours down
(05:29):
to see him hung out with Bob fora few hours.
He's such an amazing, generousperson.
Now, the last piece I'll sayabout this story, and this is
probably the it'll show you whoBob is as a person.
Over the couple of hours, I toldhim everything about me and my
life and my ambitions and mygoals.
I gave him a ton of details.
Years later, when I started mypodcast, I invited him on and he
(05:51):
jumped on and it was like zerotime it passed.
He was referencing names anddates and my goals and all of
this.
detail years later.
Wow.
It just shows you how brilliantof a person he is with his note
taking or his CR, however he didit.
I don't know.
Uhhuh but what a cool guy.
Yeah, really cool guy.
I gotta share my Bob Burke story'cause yeah.
(06:13):
By the time that we, this hascome out, I'll already have
aired, released our hundredthepisode and we're releasing that
hundredth episode is with BobBurke.
Oh, and it's a dream come truefor me.
'cause when we started theWayfinder show, I had a list of
some people to, that wouldeventually signal.
Five success if we had'em on.
And Bob Berg was at the top ofthat list for me.
'cause the book was sosignificant.
(06:33):
But I I don't know if it wasTwitter or Instagram or
something that somebody justput, what's a book you would
read over and over?
And I just put the Go-Giver.
I read it every year.
And and somehow he saw thatcomment and he found me and he's
thank you very much.
And I'm like, oh my God, is thisreally Bob Berg And I, and he
and I'm like, I gotta take myshot, right?
And I'm like, Hey.
(06:54):
Big fan.
Would you come on the Wayfindershow?
And he, right away, he connectsme with this person and we got
him on and it's it wasincredible.
Yeah, it was I was such a fanboy, right?
I'm like a teenage girl meetingTaylor Swift with him, like it
was funny, but yeah, that's howI feel about a lot of the people
in this space as well.
That's amazing.
So tell us about that, man.
I got to know a little bit aboutyour journey with you, you can
(07:17):
go pre book thinkers if you'dlike.
Yeah.
Like what inspired you first ofall who were you prior to book
thinkers?
Yeah, I started book thinkerswhen I was about 21 22 years
old.
So I'll give you a little bit ofcontext before that.
When I was growing up, I hadgreat parents, white picket
fence household, upper middleclass.
I'm the oldest of four boys.
(07:38):
We always had food on the tableand presents under the Christmas
tree.
And they treated us really welland always supported whatever
decisions we made.
So I had the best childhood.
I really did.
And I'm so grateful for that.
But despite all theopportunities given to me, I
never really took full advantageof them.
So I was always living under mypotential, whether it was on the
(07:59):
sports field, I played football,I was captain of the wrestling
team, but.
I could have done so much moreif I really committed to it.
Same thing in the classroom.
I took AP calculus, but I had a0 percent homework average.
So that was always my story,like capable, but living under
my potential.
And I could say the same thingabout most of my college
experience as well.
I was selected to run my ownhouse painting business, which
(08:22):
was an entrepreneurship programat my college.
And although I made it into theprogram, I was the lowest
performing student two years ina row.
So always the worst performingout of the best kids, and I
didn't go to class.
I goofed off.
I negotiated grades with myteachers and but I still wanted
to do something with my life,right?
(08:43):
So I took this internship goinginto my senior year of college
at a local software company, andmy boss at the time introduced
me to the world of podcasts.
I was commuting one hour eachway five days a week.
So I was spending 10 hours aweek in the car just listening
to music like every othercollege kid would and he said to
me Nick Playing the same song orthe same radio station for the
(09:06):
500th time is not going tochange your life But the right
podcast might and so heintroduced me to some shows
where successful people werebeing interviewed And you could
listen to them for free and theywere giving away all of their
secrets Which was just so coolfor me at the time and after a
couple of weeks of listening tothese podcasts I just connected
the dots.
(09:26):
I realized that successfulpeople read and implement books
You Because books condensedecades of somebody else's
greatest life lessons into days.
It's like the greatest cheatcode that was ever given to us.
Yet most people choose The musicover the books or the podcasts.
And so that's when my journeystarted.
That's when I fell in love withpersonal development because the
(09:49):
last thing I'll say about thispart of my life was that, like I
said, I was underachieving inschool.
And so I might show up to aclass all cocky and arrogant,
but the minute that the realconversation started about money
or investing, cause I was inbusiness school, I would shrink
into the back of the class.
And when the conversations wouldcarry out into the hallway with
all the best performingstudents, I would leave and go
(10:11):
to the gym or go to the dininghall or go hang out with my
buds.
So when I went back to school,my senior year, after reading a
bunch of books on personalfinance and investing, I was
leading those conversations.
So my insecurities got turnedinto areas of competence and
confidence.
And so I just, that's why I fellin love with books.
(10:31):
Cause I was like, what otherareas of my life can I start to
improve?
Yeah, that's amazing.
I spent this past week with anold friend of mine who from high
school, but he went to Yale LawSchool, and I can see he's
incredibly well read,intellectual, all around great
guy, but there was a bit of aninsecurity that I had.
I hadn't seen him in two years.
(10:52):
30 years since high school.
I'm a little bit older and andi'm thinking and i've watched
him.
He's been on ted and all thisstuff He's actually a really
fascinating story who shouldwrite a book.
But besides the point he I wasintimidated to go hang out with
him right thinking afterwatching him that he's so
intellectual and so smart andwell read and he's referring to
all these things and by now likeI've read a Almost all the books
(11:13):
and then some that he has and Ijust found myself being able to
hang and as the week went Ibuilt my confidence got bigger
and bigger and maybe in the nextfew weeks will announce we're
launching some big businessventure together, but it made me
feel like really Confident as wewent and I think that's a lot
like your story, right?
(11:33):
Even in now in my late forties,I still had those insecurities,
but then you read and then yougo, you put yourself around
these people that you wereintimidated by before because
you didn't do the work and youstart to realize, Hey, I can
hang.
And all of a sudden yourconfidence starts going through
the roof, right?
Pretty, pretty fast, because I'msure you didn't go in there to
show off all the books you read.
You were just like, Hey, I knowmy stuff, right?
(11:54):
Yeah.
And that's what books give usaccess to the world's best
mentors in every discipline.
Yeah.
There's a great Ted talk that Iwatched speaking of Ted years
and years ago Tai Lopez, thefamous internet market here in
my garage with the Lamborghinis.
He gave a Ted talk one timewhere he said to the audience,
It's imagine Mother Teresa canteach you about giving back.
(12:16):
Imagine Arnold Schwarzeneggercan teach you about
bodybuilding.
Imagine Steve Jobs can teach youabout innovation.
Like how much would that beworth?
And people are throwing outcrazy numbers.
And the reality is there arebooks written by those people
and about those people that areavailable right now.
We can get access to their best.
Mentoring right now.
(12:36):
And yeah, all of us can learnfrom the world's best people and
we can use that information toimprove our own decision making
in our lives, really.
Yeah.
I want to ask you more aboutyour books, but before that, so
let's talk a little bookthinker.
So you got into books, right?
And then how did you create thatinto a business and describe a
little bit about what yourbusiness does as well?
(12:58):
Yeah, sure.
So I went back to school mysenior year and I read a ton of
books and then I graduated and Itook a full time job with that
same software company where Iwas interning and turned down
the go giver opportunity.
But I always knew that althoughI could be a high performing
employee for somebody else, Iknew I always wanted to start my
own business.
So I got together with a coupleof my buddies way back then,
(13:20):
2016 ish, 2017, and we were justmeeting up on a regular basis.
Looking for problems to solvebecause that's what we read.
That's how you start a business.
You look for a problem thatneeds to be solved.
You provide a solution andthat's how you start to build a
business.
That's where the value is inexchange for money.
And so one of the problems thatI started to deal with was that.
(13:43):
I was reading so much.
I was having a hard timeretaining the information from
the books that I had previouslyread.
So somebody might say, Hey Nick,I saw you post about thinking
grow rich by Napoleon Hill.
What was your favorite takeaway?
At a bump into somebody at afamily event or something.
And I'd go, Yeah.
Huh.
What was my favorite takeaway?
I can't even remember.
(14:04):
So the original idea for bookthinkers was actually going to
be a platform, a web app, amobile app, where you could
categorize your favoritetakeaways from each book.
And it would set, send youreminders of your favorite notes
and stuff like that.
And I actually took it prettyfar.
We hired A development companyout of Argentina.
We spent tens of thousands ofdollars and hundreds of hours of
(14:26):
our time trying to build thisthing.
And it totally failed.
The company that was building itwent out of business.
My friends spent too much moneywithout getting any back.
So they decided to leave.
And I was just left with thisInstagram page that originally I
was using it to build anaudience to sell the app into
where I was talking aboutnonfiction books, but the app
(14:46):
fell apart and I was just leftwith an audience of readers.
Who enjoyed my book reviews andI thought, what can I build this
into now?
Right around the same time, Ihad a couple of authors knock on
my door through the DMS and say,Hey Nick, I'd love to get my
book in front of your audience.
Can you help?
And I thought, interesting.
There's another need emergingthat I didn't see previously.
(15:09):
And as I started to work withauthors a little bit more, I
realized that writing andpublishing a book is only half
the battle.
In fact, it's actually much lessthan half the battle.
Most of the battle is gettingthe book out there, getting
people to see it, to buy it, toread it, to review it.
That actually takes a lot moreeffort than it does to write a
good book.
And so that's when the businesswas born.
(15:31):
Now to fast forward until today,right?
BookThinkers is a marketingagency that helps authors
promote and market their books,and I've got about 10 people on
the team now.
We work with hundreds of authorsa year, and we do three major
things.
One is short form videoproduction, where we fly out to
an author and we help themcreate You know, good quality
professional video that sellstheir books.
(15:53):
The second bucket is podcastbooking.
So we'll help authors get infront of the right audiences to
promote and market their booksand tell their stories.
And you've been on the receivingend of that.
We've Placed a lot of greatauthors in front of your
audience.
And the third bucket is thatsocial media book review piece.
Now we have hundreds ofthousands of followers across
our different platforms and withour podcast, and I have a chance
(16:16):
to interview and promote theirwork.
So that's a little bit about thebusiness.
Yeah it's really great, and I'vehad some other authors outside
of that you represent, you don'trepresent, and I've, I see that
problem, I ask them, offline,usually how do they go about
promoting their book, and theydon't know, they've spent so
much time getting, getting it topublish and then they hadn't
thought this piece through, andnobody's heard of the book, and,
(16:38):
what have you, and so I, I knowI've sent a couple your way, and
I know you're meeting with oneof them soon I hope Hopefully
you can get their message outthere because they're pretty
dynamic.
So yeah.
Yeah.
Just like you said, I, just tocap, put a cap on that.
Like I, I really saw thebusiness need when authors would
message me, Hey, can you helppromote market my book?
And I would jump on a call withthem and I'd say, Why do you
(16:59):
need my help?
And they would say somethinglike, Nick, I spent 30 years in
corporate America learning howto be a great leader.
And then I retired and everybodysaid, write a book.
So I spent three years writingthe book and has all my greatest
life lessons in there.
And I put out the book and Ican't get anybody to buy it.
It has millions of dollars ofinformation in it.
(17:21):
It's available for 15 and nobodywants it.
And I feel bad for that person.
Like they're just trying to makethe world a better place.
They've got so much value inthere.
So yeah, the book marketingpiece, like it's definitely
underserved.
Yeah, so why why did you go withpodcasting and social, the old
school way was you just set uplike book signings and talks at
(17:43):
a bookstore, right?
Usually or a cafe and go aroundand, now it seems like podcasts
are that, right?
Did you recognize that early onor was that already happening or
what's the deal there?
Yeah, it's a great question.
I've tried my hand at dozens ofdifferent ways to promote and
market books, dozens ofdifferent methods and strategies
and formats and mediums and alot of them are great.
(18:07):
They're competitive andoversaturated.
So there are thousands ofcompanies that can help you get
a billboard in Times Square for15 seconds.
There are thousands of companiesthat can get you traditional
media, maybe a guest spot on aForbes article or something.
There are thousands of companiesthat serve that traditional book
marketing space, but As Ievaluated the landscape, there
(18:31):
really aren't that manycompanies that serve the digital
landscape, the new age ofmarketing, and there's a few
reasons why.
Number one, it's hard to judgesuccess through social media
book reviews or podcasting, so alot of bigger companies, they
don't want to touch it.
And number two, it's arelationship based game, not a
transactional game.
(18:51):
And so it takes a while, likeyou got to be an insider to
Start networking with othergreat podcasts and to start
building relationships withdifferent social media accounts
that can promote market booksand it's a little bit of a blue
ocean to use a business analogy.
There weren't a lot of peopleserving it.
And so I was.
young enough to have grown upwith social media, but old
(19:14):
enough to run a business.
And so I was in a sweet spot tohelp serving, to start serving
these people.
And even the big publishers,they really don't touch
podcasting or social media.
And so that's where we startedto get a lot of clients from was
like these bigger, moretraditional publishers who just,
they weren't in touch with thecrazy volatility of social
(19:35):
media.
Interesting.
Is there any, you said it'sdifficult to measure.
success with it.
Is there any, has that improvedat all?
Can you tell do book sales go upif they go on a certain podcast?
I'm sure they do in certainpodcasts or is there any way
though, to be able to track anyof that?
Yeah.
What's interesting about, so fortraditionally published authors,
(19:59):
meaning they signed with Penguinor Harper or one of those big
publishers, they really have noaccess to book data.
At least not in real time.
So maybe they'll get a monthlyreport of total number of books
sold, but there's no real way tojudge a podcast success or a
book campaign on social media.
Whereas with a hybrid or a selfpublished author, they're
(20:19):
getting data through Amazon sameday.
And so if a podcast goes liveand they see a spike in book
sales above their average, thenthey can attribute that if it's
the only campaign going live tothe podcast.
So yeah, absolutely.
Now as an agency, book thinkersdoesn't have access to that
data.
The customer does.
So we're relying on them to selfreport, but yeah, absolutely.
(20:43):
And I released my first booklast year called rise of the
reader back in November, just totest the water a little bit so I
could collect my own data.
And I was able to follow alongand see when podcasts launched,
if it created a spike in booksales and they definitely do.
Interesting.
Actually let's talk about that.
Cause I was going to ask you ifyou've written a book.
(21:03):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I put out a book lastNovember called the rise of the
reader strategies for masteringyour reading habits and applying
what you learn, because in mycommunity online on Instagram,
like we'll do a half a millionorganic impressions a month with
just book content.
And so that's a lot of peoplethat see the stuff over the
years, right?
Millions and millions of people.
(21:24):
And over the years, thousands ofpeople have said to me some
version of, Hey, Nick, Iappreciate All of the book
recommendations, but I'm havinga hard time applying the
information.
So what's missing?
I'm reading it.
I'm all excited.
I can envision it happening, butthen I fail to take action.
And so that's the problem I setto solve in my book, rise of the
reader here.
(21:45):
I'll hold up a copy.
There it is right there.
Oh, okay.
Yeah.
So it helps people retain andimplement more from the other
books that they're reading.
Okay.
And what are some of thosestrategies?
How long do we have?
I have so many things to tellpeople.
I think the first thing I liketo say is we need to be a little
(22:06):
bit more intentional about whatwe read.
So I think books are a great wayto solve problems.
I think books are a great way tobuild skills.
And then satisfy curiosities andexpose us to new information.
But if your why for reading abook is, I saw it on Instagram,
that's not strong enough.
We need to define a problem thatwe're solving or we need to
(22:29):
define a skill that we want tobuild and why, what is it
connected to?
How is it serving our futureself to read and implement this
information?
When you start with a strongerwhy, Then you'll develop more of
an emotional connection toreading and implementing the
book.
And a great framework for thisis the smart goal framework.
We're all familiar with it forgoal setting, but we never apply
(22:51):
it to the books that we read.
So let's say that I was going topick up here, toss out a book,
toss out any random bestsellingpersonal development book.
Tools of Titans.
Awesome.
So Tools of Titans details.
Like a couple hundred of theworld's most successful people,
tools, tactics, and strategiesfrom the world's most successful
(23:13):
people.
And it has different sections,health, wealth, wisdom, things
like that.
So if I was going to definelet's say I'm a fan of Tim
Ferriss and I'm thinking oftools of Titans.
I've heard that there's somegreat health advice in the book.
Let's start with a why I'mlooking to implement.
And we'll use the smart goalstrategy.
(23:33):
I'm looking to find andimplement at least one new
health routine by the end ofAugust or something like that.
That is specific.
I know exactly why I'm readingthe book.
It's measurable.
By the end of the experience,did I implement one new health
routine?
Is it attainable?
Yes.
50 pounds or.
(23:54):
Do a full distance Ironmantriathlon, but just find and
implement one new healthroutine.
Is it relevant to me?
Am I emotionally connected toit?
Of course I am.
Why?
Let's go a little bit deeper.
I want to find and implement atleast one new health routine
from tools of Titans by the endof August, because I want to be
able to hike Machu Picchu withmy grandkids.
I want to be at every one of mykids T ball games and actively
(24:18):
involved.
You could go on and on andreally get this emotional.
And then.
The T in SMART stands for timebound, by the end of August,
give yourself a deadline to takeaction.
And when you build a SMART goalfor each book that you read, not
only are you more emotionallyconnected to it, but you start
filtering for the rightinformation.
So I'll actually write thatSMART goal on the inside cover
(24:39):
of each book that I read, andI'll review it every time I read
another chapter or another 10,15, 20 pages, because I'm always
refreshing.
What is my goal for this book?
That way everything else meltsaway and only the actionable
information reveals itself thatway.
You're more likely to implementone of those health goals from
Tools of Titans than if you werejust reading it because you like
(25:01):
Tim Ferriss or something.
Yeah, that's really good.
Yeah, one of the reasons whythere's a couple books I read
every year, we mentioned TheGoal Giver.
I read it over because I justfind something new in it every
time.
You just missed it.
I've read it, I don't know, I'veread it like eight or ten times
already.
And still every to this day, Iread a simple little book of
just 120 pages or 23 pages,whatever the and there's always
(25:25):
something new in there that Icatch and then you start to
implement and really focus on itthroughout the year.
So I like what you're saying.
Once you start, you catch it andyou start implementing it and
you have a big why behind it andeverything.
It's, it really sticks, right?
Yeah.
And next time you read The GoGiver, set a smart goal.
Like I'm looking to find andimplement, something related to
(25:46):
the law of reciprocity by theend of August or whatever the
case is.
Play around with it a littlebit.
Yeah.
No, that's a great tip.
Cool.
Do you have any favorite authorsin general that you'd like to
read their stuff?
If they come out, you're goingto pick it up.
Yeah, there, there are a numberof them.
I love Ryan holiday.
Yeah.
And although I'm one or twobooks behind on the stoic virtue
(26:09):
series right now, I've read atleast 10 Ryan holiday books and
I'm a big fan of his writingstyle and stoic philosophy in
general.
I'm a really big fan of RobertGreen.
Huh.
48 Laws of Power and all of hisother books.
I think Robert Greene is abrilliant writer.
I love Tim Ferriss.
The four hour work weekspecifically had such an
(26:29):
amazing, incredible impact on mylife.
Yeah.
So those are some of myfavorites right there.
What about you?
Same man.
I think I would definitely putRyan Holiday, if whatever he
writes, I'll pick up, I likebiographies a lot.
So whatever Walter Isaacsonwrites, I love, he's my favorite
biographer by far.
That guy's incredible, I don'tknow.
(26:49):
I'm joined.
We joined it back at me, man,and he kept me off guard, but
those are two.
Yeah.
I really like a lot.
Yeah, I'll throw out a couple ofothers for people.
I love Darren Hardy and thecompound effect.
Darren Hardy has a very clear,actionable writing style.
And he wrote The Power of Habittoo, right?
Was that him?
(27:09):
That was Charles Duhigg.
Oh, Duhigg, my bad.
Yeah.
Cause they were similar.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Very similar though.
When Atomic Habits and theSlight Edge, those two books,
they're all in the same bucket,but they're all, You know what?
I love to do is I love to pickup a subject like habits and
then go really deep on it.
Read four or five books on thesame subject, even if it's
slightly repetitive.
(27:30):
We have to remember thatrepetition leads to retention.
So if you go really deep on asubject and you truly understand
it, the likelihood that you'llremember it.
Goes up, which is a good thing.
Any so obviously big into theself help self development
books.
What other genres do you like,or do you just stick to that?
Under the genres of likepersonal development and self
(27:51):
help, I read a lot of business,I read a lot of philosophy.
I read a lot of psychology.
I read a lot about personalfinance and investing habits,
which I guess falls under psych,psychology a little bit.
I love those subjects.
I don't read much historicalnonfiction.
(28:12):
I don't read much fiction atall.
Every year I read a couple offiction books, I just haven't
branched into that world yet.
What about you?
Yeah, same.
I keep trying every year.
I'd say, I've been reading somuch of this nonfiction self
development stuff that I try topick up a fiction book every
once in a while just to do itand it's become harder and
(28:33):
harder as I get older.
I feel like I'm wasting my time.
But I do I do think there's realvalue in it.
For sure.
We had a, was it CharlesSpinoza.
Did you send him our way?
I did.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He, I love the conversation thatwe had about the humanities and
how you can learn aboutleadership and business and all
that through it.
And it got me more interested towant to go back and read some
(28:55):
again and maybe just view itthrough that lens.
Cause I do think when you getthe stories, I think that's why,
Books like The Go Giver and likeRich Dad, Poor Dad or The
Alchemist, those fables arefiction books, but they teach
these morals, that are justgreat.
And and they stick better thatway.
Yeah, they do.
I love the alchemist.
I'll yeah, that's a book that Iread every single year and I'll
(29:19):
tell you an interestingreflection and this may be
obvious to people.
This may be obvious to you.
It may be obvious to people inthe audience, but I've probably
read the alchemist like five orsix times.
And this most recent time I wasthinking about alchemy as
personal development.
And I was thinking about the rawmaterials as like our reality.
So you take any random metal.
(29:41):
Take any random lifecircumstance or situation or
business opportunity.
And it's an alchemist.
Somebody with a personaldevelopment mindset that can
mold their surroundings intoabundance.
And I never thought about itthat way.
But anyway, that was my takeawaythis time.
That's awesome.
Yeah, that's a classic, right?
And just about everybody's readthat probably in high school or
(30:03):
something, right?
And I've read it a few timestoo.
But, yeah, I should add it to myannual reader list.
Just in case.
Yeah.
So you've written a book.
You read a lot.
How much reading do you do?
About how much, would you say?
About two books a week, twobooks a week.
Wow.
Yeah.
For anybody in the audience,who's rolling their eyes, like
I, it's my full time job, I getpaid to read and promote books.
(30:25):
So I read about two books a weekright now.
You got a very enviable job.
And do you actually read it oryou listen to them?
Both I prefer reading, butaudible.
So there's a fact that we, thatI'll state, which is that.
(30:45):
80 percent of the inputs to ourbrain are visual.
So by default, if we're onlylistening to something and we're
multitasking because we'redriving or we're at the gym or
we're doing chores or whatever,the likelihood that we retain
and actually implement theinformation goes way down if
(31:07):
we're just listening, which iswhy I prefer to read a physical
paper book.
It's an act of monotasking.
It's fully focusing on one thingat the expense of everything
else.
That's the best way that we willdevelop a relationship with
information.
But man, Audible is just soincredibly convenient, isn't it?
And sometimes, there's somebooks that I feel are meant to
(31:29):
be listened to than read.
For example, I don't know ifwhat's his name Matthew
McConaughey, Green Lights.
Yeah, that was a greataudiobook.
Oh my god, you can't read, Imean you can read it too.
Go ahead and read it, but youhave to listen to it.
Yeah, I agree.
It's so well done.
I agree.
I have Like Will by Will Smith,same thing, he narrates an
(31:50):
amazing book.
And I also like listening tobiographies, so all of Walter
Isaacson's books, I listen tothem and I really enjoy because
it plays like a movie in yourhead a little bit.
Yeah.
And when the the author reads itin their voice, there's a,
there's something about like youfeel like they're talking to
you, right?
So it's, I don't know, like Ithought Matthew McConaughey.
(32:10):
Was reading his book to me, orthere's one I like with Dina
Castor, the former OlympicOlympic marathoner that I, I
would read every time I listenedto it.
Actually, I read it first and Ilistened to it before when I'm
in the taper phase of a marathonand I just feel it, she's
talking to me like, yeah.
All right, Louie, go, be tough.
When you get to this mile, allthis stuff, like it, it's cool.
(32:33):
Yeah.
Yeah.
A little bit.
I feel that way too with DavidGoggins.
I'll normally listen to Can'tHurt Me and the Reflections
Between Chapters, which he'sactually, doing the Q and a and
yeah.
He always kicks my butt, whichis nice.
Yeah.
You want to get pumped.
Did you read the one that puthim on the map by Jesse Itzler?
(32:54):
What was it called?
Living with a seal.
Yeah.
Living with a seal.
Yeah.
And that's an amazing audio bookbecause Jesse is so good at
telling stories.
Yeah.
That's a guy, by the way,talking about, he writes
anything I'll listen, I'll readit, yeah.
Me too.
Yeah, I also identify herbecause we're about the same age
kind of same era, you knowDefinitely not the same net
worth yet.
(33:14):
I'm coming for you.
Just but yeah, I get it Yeah,Jesse's awesome.
One of my, one of my bestfriends here at home, he did one
of those hell on the hill eventswith Jesse.
Oh yeah.
I've been thinking of doing thatone year.
Yeah.
That's cool.
I might sign up for one too.
Maybe we'll go together.
That'd be cool, man.
Yeah.
What what year are you thinkingof doing next year?
(33:35):
I don't know.
I'm I'll tell you what I justgot into endurance sports.
I just did my first sprinttriathlon and I have a spark
race in two weeks and I haveanother sprint triathlon in
September.
So I'm like just getting intoit.
I've always been in the gym, butnow I'm getting my cardio up
there.
Do you find that reading all ofthese books somehow leads you,
if you weren't on that path ofphysical fitness and in
(33:58):
particular endurance, I thinkthere's just a different type of
mental toughness that comes withit.
And I notice people, it soundslike we read a lot of the same
kind of books and I don't knowwhich comes first, it's a
chicken and egg theory, butsomehow people get back to him,
whether it's biking or cyclingor mountain climbing or
whatever, right?
Tries.
That goes, do you agree thatthere's some kind of correlation
(34:20):
there?
Yes, I do agree.
I have always been an athlete.
I've always played basketballand I've been in the gym
weightlifting.
That's what I've always enjoyed.
I've never enjoyed endurancesports, but we just had James
Lawrence, the iron cowboy on ourpodcast, and he got me all amped
up.
And then I watched hisdocumentary and About a hundred
(34:43):
full distance triathlons and ahundred days, like crazy.
And we've worked with a fewother people like that.
We've got this guy, StevenPivnick, who wrote a book called
built to finish, and he didn'tget into Ironman triathlons
until he was in his forties.
And now he's in his fifties andhe travels all over the world to
do them.
And he competed in Kona and Ijust, yeah, those things get me
(35:04):
off the couch and they get memoving.
So I think that the books led meto endurance sports.
Absolutely.
Yeah, it's amazing, right?
Yeah, we got to get you out toColorado, man.
It's like the lifestyle here.
Just read these and do all thisendurance stuff.
Funny story about that.
I was actually in Vail all weekwith a friend I was telling you
about planning out this businessand we went to this diner.
(35:25):
And and we had lunch with thesetwo ladies about the business
and the and the waiter, theowner of the restaurant comes
over, he's an older gentleman,very successful place.
And then before you know it,they're crowded.
And like those two ladies,because they're from Vail, they
know like everybody there andthey're all coming and talking
about, what do you know, what doyou think they're talking about?
This race, that they're runningthis race or, whether it was
(35:47):
biking or cycling, they were alltalking about their personal
best that they're doing like intheir sixties and seventies.
Like kicking butt, podiuming,right?
And then yeah.
And I read about this persondoing that, it's just a
conversation that kind of meldstogether like that.
It's funny.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's such a good world.
And I, by the way, I loveColorado.
My best friend, my cousin Conand he lives down in Colorado
(36:08):
Springs.
Oh yeah.
And I was there a month ago.
So had we linked, I would havelinked up with you.
We had a lot of time to kill oneof the days.
Oh, man.
Next time, now you know.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's true.
It would be an honor.
I'd be happy to host you.
All other books.
Let's say, you've named a lot ofbig names that we both know.
I'd like to know some, maybe, ofyour guests who aren't as well
(36:31):
known.
You got some, not your guests,your clients.
You've also got some really,I've seen your clientele, and
there's some big ones there too.
But, that we need to read.
Like we started with Max Lewis,I think people will know who Max
Lewis is, but maybe not yet.
Who are those people up andcoming?
Yeah I love people that are upand coming.
(36:52):
Just like you highlighted.
I think I'll give a couple ofdifferent categories.
So one of my buddies, his nameis Chris Paniotto.
He wrote a book calledcapitalize your finances and
it's very based.
Very basic personal financeliteracy.
Money coming in, money goingout, the money that's between
(37:12):
those two things.
What do you do with it?
How do you manage your ownfinances?
It's fun.
It's uplifting.
It's easy.
And he's in his early thirtiesand I, he's got a long runway
ahead of him and he's going tokeep kicking butt.
So in the personal financeworld, I recommend that.
I just mentioned another one inkind of the fitness world, which
is Steven Pivnick.
He just wrote that book built tofinish.
(37:34):
He was a very successful techCEO, exited a company for a lot
of money and now he's intoendurance sports.
So there's good businesslessons.
About business endurance.
And then there's good lessonsabout fitness endurance as well.
A lot of marathons, a lot offull distance Ironman
triathlons, and he's only juststarted producing content, but I
think he's in it for the longhaul.
(37:56):
And I really enjoy his work.
In the business world as well,read Tyleston.
He just put out a book calledgrid, grid it done.
We think about entrepreneurshipas startup culture.
You got to start your ownbusiness from scratch in your
garage, right?
Steve and Steve or bill orsomething like that.
And that's not always the case.
(38:17):
There's this.
Silver tsunami of baby boomersretiring and they don't have
anybody to give their businessesto.
And yeah, Reid Tyleston wrote anentire book about
entrepreneurship throughacquisition, buying up these
businesses at a big discountthat already have the
infrastructure in place and theyjust need to be updated.
They're already profitable andyou can use government back
(38:39):
loans to buy them.
And so he's only just startedhis journey of creating content
as well, but I'm a really bigfan of his.
So those are a couple to name afew.
Yeah.
And I got to thank you again,because Reed is somebody that we
had on the show.
Thanks to you.
And you're absolutely right.
He's incredibly impressive.
And that is a great concept thatis catching steam.
Now you're starting to see a fewmore people and influencers
(39:01):
coming out in that space.
About buying them.
I think he what made him standout from some of the others was
he focuses specifically onExisting franchises which is
even better because these aremulti generational time proven
systems that you're buying.
So the risk really goes down Soyeah He's a smart guy.
And we've worked with andinterviewed some incredible
(39:22):
people like Cardone and PBD.
And we've had Hormozy and RyanHoliday and Robert Green and all
of those people.
And they're all amazing in theirown right.
But I'll tell you my favoriteguest.
He's been on our show threetimes and we've done some work
with him.
Steven Pressfield.
Have you read any of his books?
Why does that ring a bell?
(39:43):
Could you tell me?
Probably the War of Art is hisbest.
Yeah, I haven't read it, but Ihave it on my list.
Yeah, it's all about overcomingresistance.
Why do we wake up with all themotivation in the world, but
still snooze that alarm clockand not get out of bed?
And how do you overcome it?
So that's what, he's written alot of books, fiction and non
fiction.
But man, you know what, my mostrecent interview with him, he's
(40:05):
80 years old.
And one of the reasons I likehim is the people that I look up
to, like Tim Ferriss or RyanHolliday or even Joe Rogan, who
do they look up to?
They look up to StevenPressfield.
And Steven Pressfield is justthe nicest guy on the planet.
I had a chance to film somecontent earlier last year at his
(40:27):
house in Malibu and he's had itsince I was born.
It's just such a beautifulproperty, him and his partner,
just so incredibly kind.
And I asked him about, Like, whydo people in my generation, why
can we not delay gratification?
Why do we need things today?
Why do we need to make moneytoday and become famous today
and get a million views today?
(40:48):
And he just talked about how itwas for him growing up.
He wrote for 35 years beforemaking a dollar from his
writing.
Wow.
And it made me question am Iwilling to do the work I'm doing
right now for 35 years if Iwasn't going to get paid?
Is that how much I love it?
Because that's what it takes fora real professional to sell
millions and millions of books.
(41:10):
Yeah.
So it's just cool to learn fromsomebody like that.
And I love to see that he'sstill doing it at 80 years old.
Yeah, totally.
It's something that's been on mymind a lot.
I was on a podcast the other dayand I was asked, what is it,
what inspires me?
Like, why do I do what I, and Ithought I want to be able to
make sure that our futuregenerations, my, my generation,
(41:30):
My lineages, future generations,and others, communities I come
from that were underprivilegedand had to get out of that
survival mode at first, would beable to pursue a passion so
deeply that they could do that,right?
Because it takes a lot ofprivilege to be able to do that,
right?
To really just not make anymoney for 35 years off of a
passion.
(41:51):
But just pursue it.
And you reach true mastery thatway.
And, you can producetranscendental work, but like
it'd be, wouldn't it be great ifwe can provide enough so that
our kids can like change, theway the world works for the
better because through theirwork, not just trying to figure
out, Hey, how to just, surviveor what have you, or just make
(42:12):
good money or all that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm motivated by that in asimilar way.
My wife and I are expecting ourfirst baby in October.
Congratulations.
Quick.
Yeah.
Thank you.
I love it.
Do you know what you're having?
Yeah.
Two.
I have two teenage girls now, sowe're almost an empty nester,
which I know we're running along time, but I actually did
write another non relatedquestion.
(42:34):
I've got some time.
Hit me.
Thank you.
You've been a digital nomad.
Thank you.
Yes.
Yeah.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthat?
Give some advice as to how to goabout it.
My wife and I, we're looking atbecoming empty nesters in the
next three years.
Our youngest is going to begraduating high school in three
years and, we're hoping to kickher out of the house and have
the freedom to go travel theworld.
(42:54):
Which will be the first time inour lives that, we weren't able
to do this in our twenties or,in our teens and now we're
starting to plan for that andit's becoming real.
Love to get your experience,your advice.
All that.
Yeah, I'll start with a bookrecommendation slash story and
then I'll jump into it.
Because I'm a big fan of TimFerriss and I follow Tim and I
listen to his podcasts and I payattention to what he pays
(43:16):
attention to.
At one point I stumbled across abook called Vagabonding by Rolf
Potts.
Now, Rolf is not up and coming,but this is a little known book.
So most people probably haven'theard of it before.
And the subtitle is somethinglike, The Uncommon Art of Long
Term World Travel, somethinglike that.
(43:38):
And I heard Tim mention thatDuring a lot of his travels, he
only kept a couple things withhim consistently.
And one was a copy of that book.
So I bought it back in 2016,2017.
And it talked about how inAmerica, in the West, we have
this view that travel isreserved for the rich and
famous, right?
And that at most the averageAmerican family can maybe take a
(44:01):
week off once a year.
And you blow all your money onsome all inclusive resort, in
the Caribbean or something.
And that's what we all think of.
You have to apply for time off,whatever.
But Rolf proposes a differentversion of traveling, and it's a
travel with a personaldevelopment focus.
Like he says, you can discoverwhole new continents within
(44:21):
yourself.
If you look at travel throughhis lens and he has lines in the
book, like the slow nuancedexperience of one country is
better than the fast superficialexperience of a dozen, like
different things like that.
So I decided to go on my firsttrip, my first solo travel trip
(44:43):
back around that same time Ibooked five weeks in Buenos
Aires, Argentina, because that'swhere Tim Ferris went.
And I was like, I'm going tofollow in his footsteps.
So I didn't know anybody.
In South America, I didn't speakany Spanish, but I just booked
five weeks.
I looked up what area to stayin.
I bought an Airbnb and I went.
And the first day was one of thelongest days of my life.
(45:05):
I didn't know how to get a taxi.
I didn't know how to exchangecurrency.
I didn't even know how to getwater at the local supermarket
because I didn't have currencyand they didn't accept cards.
I had to figure it all out on myown.
I was so scared about orderingat restaurants.
Like how am I going to meetpeople at bars?
It was so incredibly stressful.
And after one day there, Ithought I'm weighing over my
(45:26):
head.
Five weeks is way too long, butfast forward until the end of
the trip.
When I was leaving, I was like,five weeks was way too short.
I wish I was staying hereforever.
So that's when I fell in lovewith travel as a form of
personal development and growth.
I'm wearing a shirt right nowthat says seek discomfort and
that's what travel gives you theability to do.
Every day because everything isnovel and novelty creates
(45:49):
memories and emotion.
So I'll wrap up by saying this,my wife and I, over the last
five or six years have spenttime in over 25 different
countries.
And sometimes for up to threemonths at a time, like we did
three months in Columbia, SouthAmerica, a month in Iceland or
whatever.
And man, we just love it.
(46:10):
And I'm just, I'm obsessed withtravel.
If I didn't have book thinkers,maybe I would have travel
thinkers or something like that.
I love it.
Hey, man, that's sounds like thenext big thing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
As a form of personaldevelopment.
I love that.
That was, what a great, you cancoin that for sure.
You probably should.
I'm, if you don't, I'mtrademarking that after this
(46:32):
episode.
All right, I'll go run and doit.
Yeah.
Along those lines, were there,that's great tips about, from,
and I'm going to pick up thatbook, Vagabonding for sure.
I'm curious if there were anyspecial places like, where you
would actually be willing tomove to, like to that extent.
If I didn't have family in theMassachusetts area and My wife
(46:53):
didn't have family in theMassachusetts area, which is
more of it.
Yeah, there are some places thatI would live at least for short
periods of time.
I would love to live in Iceland.
I love Iceland.
We've been four times.
It's clean, amazing food wildlandscape.
(47:14):
Friendly people, one of thesafest countries on the planet.
All those Nordic countries areall really safe.
I love all of them that we'vevisited so far.
I love the Greek islands.
I love Greek food, Mediterraneanvibes.
Yeah.
And some of the lesser knownones, like the party islands are
fun, Santorini and Mykonos.
(47:34):
But if you get off the beatentrack to some of the smaller
islands, They're reallyinexpensive.
It's amazing weather during thesummer.
It's like mild, but you canstill go to the beach.
The food is so good.
All of the healthy veg, veggiesand olive oils and the wines,
like you can drink as much asyou want and wake up and you're
sober the next morning.
(47:55):
Like it's amazing.
None of it, none of the likeweed is fortified and none of
the wines are sulfated.
Like it's just so good.
And then to offer one more, Welove Columbia.
We've been a few times, like Isaid, we spent three months in
Medellin.
We spent time in some of theColombian islands and some of
the coastal cities as well.
And I love Columbia.
(48:16):
It's really inexpensive.
It's become sort of a tech hub,a digital nomad hub for South
America.
And you're, the U S dollar justgoes so much farther down there.
Yeah fun fact my family'sactually Colombian from
Medellin.
Yeah.
Oh, really?
So yeah, I lived in I grew up inColombian enclaves in the US
basically, but yeah I'm alsofrom New England and there's
(48:36):
quite a few Colombians andEnclave, there's quite a few
Colombian enclaves and you knowin Massachusetts East Boston is
a big Colombian enclave, right?
Yeah.
Do you visit very oftenMedellin?
No, I don't.
I just got a hard time becausemy friend who I was telling you
about that we were in Vail allweek he's also from Columbia.
He's met, and he was actuallyborn there from Medellin and we
(48:57):
went to high school together andeverything.
And he gives me a hard timecause I haven't gone.
And yeah.
And, my whole family.
And so I got to go, but yeah.
Yeah.
With your age, you said you'relate forties, for a lot of.
For a lot of like your teenageyears, Medellin was not a place
that you would want to be.
And it's funny about the worldlike that.
I have a friend who was born andraised in Medellin or outside of
(49:20):
it.
And he lives in Canada now.
And one of the times that I wentback, he visited and I got to go
see his family home and reallyget outside of the city.
And he was just telling storiesand it's I want to visit every
country on the planet.
And there are some countriestoday that you would go you're
not going to be able to visitAfghanistan or Iraq, but yeah,
you can in 20 or 30 years, theymight be tourist destinations.
(49:42):
Like you don't know.
So yeah.
Yeah.
Who knows what the uprisingthat's happening in Venezuela,
we might be able to go theresoon again.
Cuba had opened up a couple ofyears ago, you never know.
Yeah.
You never know.
I, my wife and I got married inAruba, which is only 16 miles
off the coast of Venezuela, butit's funny, 16 miles.
And then all of a sudden youcan't visit there.
(50:02):
Like it's just so wild.
Yeah.
All right.
So Nick we're at that point ofthe show.
I feel like I can talk to youforever, man.
And I'd love to have you back onsometime and, maybe have more
regular talk because I think, Ifeel like you, we were very
similar in our interests andquest for knowledge and self
development.
I think so too.
(50:23):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thank you.
But with that, I wanted to, soyou can get back to work and
reading, I did want to ask you,our world famous Wayfinder four.
So are you ready?
I am as ready as I could be.
Let's go.
All right.
So give us a hack that you useevery day.
My morning walk with my dog isthe first thing I do every day.
(50:47):
I get the exercise endorphinsflowing.
I get some sunlight in myeyeballs before I consume any
caffeine.
I try to do a little bit ofgrounding in the backyard once
we get back.
And it's also a form of walkingmeditation for me.
No music, no headphones,nothing.
And that one hour in the morningsets me up for the rest of the
day.
So I love my morning walks.
(51:11):
Love it.
And it costs nothing.
Yeah, absolutely.
For me, it's a run.
But yeah, I agree.
I'm just getting out in themorning outdoors.
It's just great So what about afavorite book is what I'll toss
out there right now I'm goingthrough 10x is easier than 2x by
Dan Sullivan and dr.
Benjamin Hardy for a third time.
(51:32):
Oh Yeah, I it's helping to growmy business in crazy ways.
I actually just signed up for astrategic coach and had my first
session with them as well.
So I'm a really big fan of ofthat book.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And they're authors thatanything they write that they're
going back to favorite authors.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
That's a good one.
(51:52):
We've reviewed that, that bookon the show as well.
What about a piece of advice foryour younger self?
Give me an age.
How old is my younger self?
Yeah.
You're pretty young already.
So I, we used to I'll tell youwhen we started this show, we we
would ask, give us a piece ofadvice you would ask you would
(52:13):
give to your 25 year old self.
But then we started having thesereally bad ass people who were
25 or younger.
So we changed it to youngerself, whatever that means for
you, man.
I don't know.
It could be your 18 year oldself, your 25 year old self, I
would go back.
I would go back to my 20 yearold self.
Okay.
I started reading these booksand I would say you're on the
(52:34):
right path.
Give myself a little bit ofcertainty because where I am
today, 10 years later is exactlywhere I want it to be.
And I had a lot of uncertainty.
I didn't know if I was on theright path and if reading and
implementing these books wouldget me there, but they
absolutely did.
And so I would say you're on theright path, man, keep doing it.
I love that.
(52:54):
I love that.
So much positivity in that too.
So that's cool.
So many times I hear peoplefocus on what they weren't doing
that they should have beendoing, but your messaging is so
reinforcing.
This is why you're going to be agreat dad, man.
So I'm excited.
Yeah, I bet.
But do you know what you'rehaving by the way?
Yeah, we're having a boy.
Nice.
All right.
And you got names already or youkeep it.
(53:15):
We've got a couple that werekicking around, but we haven't
picked on yet.
Yeah.
Yeah, but I'll tell you what,cause you love Ryan holiday
right now.
I'm reading the daily dad everyday.
It's like the daily stoic, butit's parenting advice.
It's really good.
Yeah.
My, my parents, my kids actuallygot it from me for Christmas
because they know I love Ryanholiday.
So that's awesome.
And every year they get me oneof those daily somethings, I've
(53:37):
gotten daily stoic from her,just a daily calendar.
So that was cool.
How about a big opportunity?
Because I am stepping intofatherhood now, there's a
natural extension of mybusiness, BookThinkers, that
would serve kids who want tofocus on personal development
(53:58):
style information and parents.
Thanks.
who want to work on childhooddevelopment and understand how
to be the best version ofthemselves.
So that's the type of materialthat I'm starting to read
outside of my paid book reviewsand things like that.
So books like the seven habitsof highly effective families,
which I didn't know existed andbooks like the daily dad.
(54:19):
And also, Andy Frisella justsent me all of his kids books.
And I just got Jocko Willink'skids books.
And I just got Rory Vaden's kidbook.
And it's Oh, there's this wholeother market that I think I'm
going to tackle and develop a,another brand inside of.
So yeah, I think I'm going to gotackle that niche.
That's one opportunity I'mexcited about.
(54:40):
Oh, that's a great one, man.
It's huge.
The market there is massive andit, yeah, it's great.
More power to you, man.
That's really good.
So yeah, Nick, man, this hasreally been a big joy.
If people want to know a littlebit more about you or book
thinkers, where should we sendthem to?
Send them to Instagram at bookthinkers.
(55:00):
And I'll tell you what, ifanybody has listened to this
conversation today and you'relike, you know what?
I think I should start readingagain.
Then shoot me a direct messageon Instagram at book thinkers
and tell me about a problem thatyou're facing or tell me about a
skill that you want to build.
And I'll recommend a book foryou because like I said, I've
read hundreds and hundreds ofthese now, and I just love
(55:21):
providing custom bookrecommendations to people.
Oh man.
I love that.
Okay thank you.
That's really generous.
Yeah Nick it's been a real joy.
I really wasn't sure what toexpect.
I just felt like a deep immenseof Level of gratitude to you.
Like I said for helping us we'vedefinitely stepped up as a show.
I believe with the guests thatwe have in the wisdom We're able
(55:43):
to share with the world fromthem and that's a big big reason
for that is because of you andyour team and what you guys are
doing.
So I'm really grateful and nowgetting to know you here on the
show.
I hope we have you back and wehave more of these from time to
time.
Yeah.
Can I do you have a couple moreminutes?
Can I wrap up with one otherstory real quick?
Go for it, man.
Okay, so this'll, this'll be akickback to you in a second, but
(56:05):
I want to tell the story.
So last year, last summer, mywife and I were on our honeymoon
and we were popping aroundEurope and we ended up in a
place called Dubrovnik, Croatia.
Now Dubrovnik is a small citypopulation about 60, 000 and we
were actually staying outside ofDubrovnik.
In a little beach area about 30minutes away.
(56:26):
So there might be like athousand people that live there.
It was really tiny.
And anyway, we're on our walkover to a restaurant and we
passed another restaurant.
And my wife said, Hey, tomorrownight, I'd love to eat here.
So we looked at the line to makea reservation.
It was really long.
So we went we had our drinks,whatever, and on our walk back,
we were going to make areservation.
And unfortunately it was closed.
(56:47):
It was all boarded up.
Nobody was out eating anymore.
We stayed out pretty late.
And she was all bumming.
And I said, you know what?
Let me go inside and see ifthere's somebody cleaning up
that can help.
So I jiggled the door and it wasopen and I walked into this
restaurant and there wassomebody kind of doing
silverware in the back andcleaning up.
And I said, Hey, excuse me, I'mon my honeymoon.
(57:07):
My wife wants a reservationtomorrow night.
Is there any way you can helpme?
And this guy turns around and hesays, yeah, I can help.
By the way, I'm a huge fan.
And I was like, a huge fan ofwhat I'm getting goosebumps.
And he says, book thinkers, man,your company, your book
recommendations, your podcast,the whole thing.
And I have one of those momentswhere I'm like, did I drink too
(57:28):
much?
Like I'm on the, I'm on theother side of the world in this
tiny little beach villageoutside of a tiny city.
And this guy's a fan of bookthinkers.
And, we got to talking and hetalked about all of these really
intricate details that I've onlyshared on like Instagram stories
from years ago and stuff likethat.
And man, the energy and thegratitude that I received from
(57:49):
him, I still think about italmost every day right now.
And as a creator, sometimes whenyou're producing content like a
podcast, you don't know ifpeople are receiving positive
impact every day.
Like you don't always hear back.
So here's my call to action foryour audience.
If anybody's still listening tomy crazy story, reach out to
Louie.
(58:09):
Say thank you.
He's putting in all this timeand effort to produce such a
great show and he's sharing somuch incredible wisdom with you.
So review the show.
It's hard to get reviews.
Reach out, shoot him a note,shoot him a DM, say thank you
because As a creator, we onlyfeel the impact when we get the
feedback.
Like this guy had been followingme for years in Croatia.
(58:30):
He never reached out because hedidn't think that I would see
the note.
He didn't think I wasaccessible.
I was creating all this impactand I had no idea until I bumped
into him at a restaurant atnight.
Let's be a little bit moreforthright with that gratitude.
Man.
So I just wanted to wrap up andgive that little call to action
for your audience.
And hopefully you get a coupleof cool messages.
Thank you, man.
I really appreciate it.
(58:51):
That means a lot.
So it's been a real joy.
Nick.
Thank you Yeah, it really hasman.
We hope you've enjoyed TheWayfinder Show.
If you got value from thisepisode, please take a few
seconds to leave us a 5 starrating and review.
This will allow us to help morepeople find their way to live
more authentic and excitinglives.
(59:11):
We'll catch you on the nextepisode.
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