September 27, 2024 • 55 mins
In this episode of the Wayfinder Show, host Luis Hernandez welcomes Kim Korte, the host of the Flavors of Emotions podcast and author of 'Yucky Yummy Savory Sweet: Understanding the Flavors of Emotions.' Kim discusses using the theory of constructed emotions to help people understand and redesign their feelings through culinary concepts. She shares insights from her book, her personal journey of overcoming trauma, understanding the science behind emotions, and practical strategies for emotional health. The conversation covers emotional awareness, critical thinking, decision-making, and overcoming fear, self-sabotage, and trauma. Kim also emphasizes curiosity and compassion as key elements in emotional management.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
If we can go from fear tocautious to curious, once we get
curious, that's when we getthose moments of inspiration.
That's when we get those momentsof clarity.
That's when we get those momentsof Elon Musk's visions, because
he doesn't live in fear.
(00:30):
Welcome to The Wayfinder Showwith Luis Hernandez, where
guests discuss the why and howof making changes that led them
down a more authentic path orallow them to level up in some
area of their life.
Our goal is to dig deep andprovide not only knowledge, but
actionable advice to help youget from where you are to where
you want to be.
(00:52):
Come join us and find the way toyour dream life.
Welcome back to the Wayfindershow.
We're here with Kim Cortee andshe is the host of the Flavors
of Emotions podcast and theauthor of a new book called
(01:13):
Yucky Yummy Savory Sweet,Understanding the Flavors of
Emotions.
The book uses the theory ofconstructed emotions to help
people understand, recognize,and redesign their feelings.
It is a unique approach toemotion management using
concepts from cooking anddining.
She explores how to make senseof our feelings through the lens
(01:34):
of a chef, understanding flavorsin a recipe to make it relatable
and consumable for betteremotional health.
Kim, welcome to the show.
Thanks for having me.
I'm really happy to be here.
Yeah.
Thank you for being here.
I'm curious how did you come upwith the concept of combining,
using cooking and culinaryskills as an analogy to like
(01:57):
emotional management?
It's because perceptions areingredients to Our emotions.
It's what our brain uses tocreate our emotional experiences
and the recipes that it uses tocreate love or whatever is based
(02:20):
on our past experiences.
So if you, whatever we'velearned, our memories,
experiences, all of these thingsare the same thing.
And so I just use the termrecipes because it's the
combination of sensoryexperiences that is what makes
up a memory.
(02:41):
And one of those sensoryexperiences is how we feel.
Before we go dive deeper intothat let's learn a little bit
more about you.
What could you what would yougive as your origin story?
I, I'm an insatiably curiousperson and it really peaked
after I went through a horribledivorce, literally laying on the
(03:03):
floor of my condo, trying tofigure out how can I keep this
from happening to me again.
And I had been through a lot inlife.
I, I had an alcoholic mother.
She wasn't like the kind whobeat you or anything, but
there's still experiences thatyou get from that.
And she died from it too, whichwas devastating.
Horrific.
(03:24):
I had some things that happenedto me as a young girl that
should never have happened.
And so this was like the finalstraw for me.
And I had to figure out how Icould keep the divorce was the
final straw.
And I had to figure out how canI keep this from happening to me
again?
And the fact is I couldn't, butI could change me.
(03:47):
I could make changes.
And so that's when I went insearch of.
What made sense for me.
And then I read this book calledhow emotions are made the secret
life of the brain.
And I was like, boom.
And this was where I understoodthat everything we experience.
(04:08):
Everything that we see, we hear,we smell, it is a prediction of
the brain, and we think we areseeing when we're really
experiencing it in our heads,and our whole world literally is
in our heads, and I don't meanto sound matrixy, but It's just
how the brain works and howwe're designed.
(04:30):
So all of these are justvehicles, this nose, the mouth,
our ears, our skin, and even ourinternal organs are all vehicles
for sending and receivingsensory signals.
Yeah, that, that's interesting.
So first of all, kudos to youfor when, having that, that,
(04:54):
what is it, that growth mindsetto just.
Make sure it doesn't happenagain, right?
I think a lot of us, we go into,when we experience something
tragic, we, or that is hard onus, that we go into victimhood,
right?
And we don't want to look withinand think, how can we prevent
this?
From happening again, right?
(05:15):
And I think that's a big deal.
I would think I spent a fairamount of time in victimhood and
because it's easy to blamesomeone else, right?
Like I didn't do anything wrong,right?
I didn't do anything wrong.
He was the one who cheated.
She was the one who broke myheart.
(05:36):
Cause she was a friend of mine.
And so I did spend time invictimhood and you know what
good it did me?
zilch like none and it just keptme in that place of it's
everyone else, not me.
That's right.
The fact is I made the decisionto marry him.
(05:57):
And I made all of a lot ofdecisions that as an adult,
obviously what happened to me asa child was not my decision.
So what is underlying thosedecisions?
Emotions.
And so what is driving me or myemotions?
And so I needed to figure thoseout.
A lot of people don't realizethat every decision that we make
(06:22):
is underlined with emotion.
We like to think it's purelylogic, but in the end, it's how
we feel that determines whatwe're gonna do.
As logically based as we thinkit is, it's still emotionally
driven.
Emotions.
Yeah, I'm curious when that washappening, what, did you have
(06:44):
like an intuition that somethingwas happening already?
Like in a case with yourhusband.
Oh, yeah.
In fact, this is a major pointin my book.
I suffered my whole life.
Like it was modeled for me and Ithink it was modeled for my
parents and we see a lot ofthis, which is willful
(07:07):
blindness.
Some people would call itcognitive dissonance, but in the
end you still don't want to facereality.
You.
Emotionally can't handle asituation, maybe because you
don't know how to deal with it,or maybe because you think it's
going to be too painful.
The point was I pushed down allof the signs, all of the
(07:33):
signals, all of the feelingsinside of me that said there's
something going on here.
Yeah.
And I just didn't want tobelieve it because I thought
this was the person for the, formy rest of my life.
We had two businesses togetherand his parents were like
(07:54):
parents to me.
And my whole world was ourbusinesses because we worked in
and grew it together.
These two businesses and all ofthe people who worked for us and
all of his patients who came into see us.
That was my whole world.
So I couldn't imagine that I,my, a world without it.
And it was my fear that kept mefrom looking at it and also from
(08:19):
taking action.
Let's back track even further.
How about when you were fallingin love with this gentleman that
you were gonna marry, right?
Bad decision maker?
What's that?
Yeah.
Yeah, bad decision maker.
Did you have any intuition thatthis could happen?
Oh, no.
(08:40):
No.
You thought, oh, this is gonnabe the most loyal partner in
life?
Oh gosh, he was I had, like Itold you I had a few really
rough emotional experiences andmy mom had died from alcoholism.
Soon after that, my fatherremarried somebody very quickly
(09:02):
and that was really hard on me.
Today I know that it's verycommon for a man to After being
widowed to marry again quickly,but at the time it was, I just
thought it was completelydisloyal of my father.
And I had also had an experiencewithin the religion of my youth
(09:24):
that had rocked my spiritualcore.
So I was a wreck when I met myfather.
First husband, I'm married.
The second time, but I was awreck.
And I thought he was my savior.
And he was, he's this New Yorkmacho kind of guy.
And he seemed like he justwanted to take care of me and
(09:47):
protect me.
And yeah I, didn't look hard.
I really didn't look hard.
That was all I focused onbecause I was in so much pain
and he acted like he loved me.
He said all the right things andI do think he did, but I think
he has his own problems thatcame into the relationship and
(10:09):
why he needed me.
And yeah.
So as I started to change it, itdidn't work out too well for
him.
Gotcha.
Okay.
I was just curious because I waswondering if based on your
expertise and emotionalmanagement and how feelings and
such as you described, affect,what our perception is if you
(10:33):
had any, prior You know,feelings or experiences that
would lead, to have that, thateither blinded that perception
of or allowed it to happen.
Do you know what I'm sayinghere?
Yeah.
So I didn't have.
the knowledge I have now, then.
And boy, if I had just even thisskill, because I call it as a
(10:54):
skill, we'll get into it, butthis skill of being able to
connect to your feelings andidentify them we're born with
it.
And then I think we go off therails.
We, it gets, it's like a poorimplementation of software.
If it is the best analogy onlybecause I've.
I implemented software in mycareer.
(11:16):
So the fact at that point intime was I was in so much pain.
I was just looking for someoneto fill this hole that was
inside of me that needed feelingbilling and I wasn't filling it
up myself, so looking forexternal people was a huge
(11:39):
mistake, but.
The fact was, is that I was notemotionally aware.
I was emotionally a wreck.
In fact, I was a horribleemployee, even.
I recently reached out to my oldboss and said, thank you for
putting up with me and notfiring me because I was a wreck.
Yeah, and you know what heresponded?
(12:00):
Yeah, those were interestingtimes.
Which was his way of saying, I'mYou know what?
You were a wreck.
Yeah.
It's that's just how much ouremotions are, our inability to
manage them or identify them canplay havoc in our life.
Yeah.
Where, and so where does thatcome from?
How does that inability tomanage your emotions develop or
(12:21):
better put how do you learn tomanage your emotions?
So I think you got to start withwhat is an emotion, right?
Yeah.
Thank you.
What is an emotion and anemotion is different from
feelings, literally an emotionis an electrical chemical signal
that comes from the brain.
(12:44):
We well multiple organs createthem, but there's a peptide that
gets created from a neuron.
So I like to do, I break it downin the book, but if you think of
our brain is having a bunch ofrecipes.
As what I call it.
So every time we learnsomething, we create some call
(13:06):
it a neural pathway neuronalwiring, but it learning
experiences memories.
It's all the same.
And I call them recipes.
When I said earlier that wedon't see with our eyes,
literally as little kids, weunderstand what a ball is.
We learn what our mother's faceis.
(13:27):
We get these perceptive signalsthat incoming and we learn what
they mean.
So our brain is always trying tomake meaning of incoming
signals.
Okay, so this works for what wehear, what we see, what we
smell, what we taste, what wetouch, and what we feel inside.
The brain, when it gets this,Information a neuron can fire
(13:55):
these peptides that go out tothe body and create feelings.
So the emotion is, in fact, afamous neuroscientist.
Her name is Oh, Good for me.
I just forgot her name, CandicePert.
She calls them molecules ofemotion.
They go out to the body and thenwe experience the sensations and
(14:17):
that's feelings.
So we can produce them, but wecannot connect to those
feelings.
That's the distinction.
Or we can get the feelings andnot understand what they're
telling us.
So feelings come in multiple, oremotions come in two kinds.
(14:38):
There's the kind that tell uswe're hungry, we're thirsty,
we're sick, we need to go to therestroom our heart is racing.
These are emotions and they'recalled homeostatic or the ones
that keep us alive and healthy.
If we ignored eating for longenough, guess what?
We're going to starve and die.
(15:00):
We don't drink water unlessdon't pay attention to those
signals of thirst.
We're also going to die.
And then we have the emotionsthat use the same body parts.
It's like anger and love.
And you will notice anger inyour stomach and maybe, in other
parts of your body.
But that's the same place thatyou're going to feel anger and
(15:25):
hunger, and these two can getconfused.
So that's the important point.
But this system thatcommunicates to us our feelings
it's our ability to connect tothem and to understand them,
which is what.
Gives us that ability todifferentiate the emotions that
(15:45):
what we're feeling so we're bornwith this ability to feel.
We're born with all of thesechemicals and peptides, but how
we label them starts at a veryyoung age.
We know what hunger is, and weknow that when it gets taken
care of because your stomach issatisfied and that feeling,
(16:06):
those pangs go away.
So you learn how to identifythem.
We don't, always have thatdistinction in our emotion as
children on the differentemotion states because maybe our
parents lack the vocabulary ormaybe we weren't taught what
like the difference is betweenbeing angry and being upset or
(16:30):
being miffed or being enraged.
And so our ability to recognizethose different feeling states
is what gives us distinction inour emotions, but also gives us
the ability to recognizedifferent situations that might
call for any of those differentfeeling states.
(16:50):
And those situations are thoseinteroceptive, those, I should
take that back.
It's interoceptive and It, whichis internal signals and extra
receptive, which are exteriorperceptive signals that come in
to the brain.
Did I just make it toocomplicated?
(17:12):
That, that last piece of whatwould be, I'm not sure I
understand the differencebetween the internal and
external perceptions.
Can you give a concrete example?
Yes.
Every time you feel hunger.
That is an internal perception.
Every time you observe theworld, that's an external
(17:34):
perception.
Hearing me is an externalperceptive signal.
Gotcha.
Feeling inside of your body.
So the interior activity thatis.
interoception.
So think of it as feeling theinterior of your body.
Okay.
So I'm interested in the w whenlet's take the concept of a
(17:59):
heartbreak.
Okay.
We get a heartbreak that anemotion that we feel and it
becomes a very physical feeling,right?
Like you said, we feel it in ourstomachs and it can linger and
really shut us down, right?
I'm sure it's a lot like whatyou felt.
When you were treated on rightand how are there ways knowing
the way now the brain works andthe body works that we can Are
(18:23):
there things we can do to workthrough that quicker and it may
be in a more productive wayRather than oftentimes just like
we talk about letting it heal bytime Especially things like a
heartbreak or just somebodyburning us and we feel you know,
burned in some way A lot oftimes it's time that Has to
(18:43):
allow those wounds to heal.
Exactly.
And a scar from a major surgeryis going to heal much
differently than a scrape on theknee.
Sure.
That's why I think, that wordtrauma can be overused and
abused because if we can'tdistinguish situations of depth
with little small incidents, Ithink that it is a disservice to
(19:08):
us to not be able to do that.
You have to allow time to heal.
If you think about what youwould do with a major surgery
scar or major just when it firststarts to heal, you want to do
things to, Help it healcorrectly.
You want to be proactive in thathealing process.
(19:31):
And so why would we want, notwant to do it any differently?
If we kept picking at a scar, ifwe kept, our mind focused on, on
the scar and how much pain we'rein, guess what we're going to
experience a lot of.
More pain.
But if we focus on how to helpit heal or things we can do to
(19:52):
reduce the pain, it doesn't meanthat pain didn't exist, but it's
trying to move on and heal it.
Yeah, I see The difference, solike with a wound, a physical
wound, usually get a timeline,things you give you exercises
and things you can do to beproactive, right, so that it can
maybe even accelerate thattimeline and what have you.
(20:14):
But when it's a traumatic woundI wonder, Are there, it's hard
in that moment to feel like, oh,this feeling is going to pass.
I guess as we age, we learn toaccept that, right?
But you just feel like it's theend of the world, right?
A loved one that passes, aheartbreak, a big loss of some
catastrophic event.
(20:35):
We just, it's hard to acceptthat this wound is going to
pass.
It's going to heal oftentimes,right?
We don't know.
There's no doctor telling us,Hey, just do this and that.
And you're going to be okay.
Right?
Of course not.
Like I said, you have to, youhave to look at are you taking a
minor scratch and treating itlike it's a major wound or are
(20:59):
you accepting like you have amajor wound here and it's going
to take time to heal.
And emotionally, sometimes itstill stings.
For instance, I have hipdysplasia, and I've had both
hips replaced at a very youngage, and I did not heal well
from the second one, and I stillhave, Moments of pain every day.
(21:23):
I can focus on that pain, or Ican notice when it does cause me
problem.
Well, what's, what am I doing?
What is aggravating this?
What's happening to aggravateit?
So We can still have pain overlosses, but it diminishes and it
can become something that youuse to either get into better
(21:45):
physical, like I can, my hip canget better or it is in better
shape if I'm more physicallyactive or if I'm doing things to
keep it strong.
So it's a matter of what youwant to do with it.
And this goes back to, do we.
Do we let that painful situationdrive the rest of our life or do
we use that to create the lifethat we want?
(22:08):
So in my case, I said, I don'twant to have this kind of
heartbreak again.
So I became focused on what Ineeded in a future relationship
that was going to make me happy.
I didn't, I looked at what wentwrong, where I made mistakes
because There was problems withmy picker and I created the
(22:33):
recipe for the relationship thatI wanted and we can do the same
thing with individual emotions.
There, there are things that wedon't even realize from our past
that come up when we experiencefeelings.
And.
When we can uncover them or justsay what has to happen for me to
(22:54):
feel this like what is going onthat why am I feeling this.
And when you look at theingredients or what's going on
around you, you might see that.
Oh, wait.
This really isn't love thisisn't what I need or want in
love.
This is just wrong.
And this is what I want fromlove.
(23:17):
And I try and use the example asif you think you see someone and
they've got their arm aroundsomeone that's not their spouse
and you're like, Oh, look, Joe'scheating on Sally.
And then you look again and yousee that it's not Joe.
And the thing is that what we'refeeling isn't always true.
(23:37):
What we first experience isn'talways right.
Our brain is a predictionmachine.
It predicts every, all of ourexperiences and we can get them
wrong.
And it's when we are, what Isay, take a second taste of a
situation try and get more ofthe flavors of this situation.
(23:59):
And there's a reason why I useflavor.
It's because flavor is acombination of multiple sensory
systems.
So you can take a taste ofsomething and then take a second
taste and it can be there's morein it.
There's more in that than therewas in that initial taste.
Because your first taste, you'remore likely predicting the
(24:21):
flavor.
You're looking at it and you'retasting it and you're like, Oh
yeah, could you expected eggsand ham, scrambled with ham in
it.
And then when you take a secondtaste, you might go, wait,
there's too much salt here.
Or there's something else inthis and you, you can
investigate it.
So that's why I use theseflavors.
These the idea of flavorsbecause it's a skill to be able
(24:45):
to taste something and noticemore flavors and it's a skill to
experience an emotion and noticeit and try and see is there more
to this than what I'm tasting.
I'm experiencing because I mightget it wrong.
One more example is in my book.
And that's of a true story ofthis man who went to a party.
(25:05):
He picked up a glass of wine,took a taste and said, Oh, I
love this wine because it cameout of a bottle of opus one,
which is really expensive.
And that's what he expected.
And we all started laughing athim and he took a second sip and
he's this isn't opus one.
And we were, we knew what thehost had done.
(25:28):
He had poured two buck chuck avery inexpensive wine into the
bottle because his friend waslate and he wanted to play a
joke on him.
That wine didn't, that wine didnot change.
Yeah.
Nothing changed with that wine.
His perception did.
Yeah.
Because he experienced what heexpected.
(25:49):
So understanding that weexperience what we expect.
Can help us to go, what am Iexpecting and what is really
going on?
Is there more to this glass ofwine than meets the eye?
That's funny.
I'm not a wine guy, but I doknow of Opus One.
Yeah.
(26:09):
And I'm sure you know of TraderJoe's 2.
Of course.
That was a classy wine incollege.
Exactly.
Yeah.
That's why I laughed earlier.
You elicited some emotions andfrom my college days when I
heard of Tupac Chuck.
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah.
And you're bringing up animportant point is that with
every memory, because it's acombination of.
(26:32):
Perceptive inputs, right?
Yeah.
Every memory is that and becauseemotions are perceptions.
Yeah.
They're tied up into everymemory.
Yeah.
And when you think about it,every memory is used to create
our thoughts.
So this is why thoughts aredriven more by our emotions than
our emotions drive our thoughts.
(26:53):
Sure.
Thoughts are thoughts, drive ouremotions.
Thoughts can change youremotion, but.
Your initial thoughts areprimarily driven by emotion.
Interesting.
I'm synthesizing what you'resaying, and I, going back to the
example of the flavors, I thinkof it like if you have a good
(27:14):
palate, developed palate, like asommelier with wine, right?
I don't have that for wine, butother things I do, they can
extract all the flavors in that,right?
And just and distinguish, and sothey will never be fooled, no
matter what the bottle is,right?
Between an Opus One, I shouldn'tsay never, that's a strong, they
can get them wrong, but it takesa lot of work to get that kind
(27:36):
of a palette.
But let's just say that they getthem right.
Like these master Psalms, whenthey taste wine they know where
it was, what year, they reallywork it.
Yeah.
It's amazing.
And so I, as I'm hearing yousay, he's I'm understanding it
is that way where you can almostextract every emotion out of a
(27:57):
thought.
Am I getting this right?
And then, or correct me if I'mwrong, and then you can, if you
really understand, then you canstart to work on that post, that
part, that emotion or what haveyou to get it right.
Is that synthesis?
So think of it this way.
Okay.
If you were to pick up a red, aglass of red wine.
(28:19):
Okay.
And you thought that all wineswere Cabernet, and you couldn't
distinguish the differencebetween a Cabernet and Merlot,
you might just say, Oh, thistastes like red wine.
Sure.
When you learn how todistinguish between the
different varietals, then youcan do that.
And then when you learn how todistinguish between regions, you
could do that.
So that's just wine.
(28:40):
But let's just take somethingsimple that people, everybody
can relate to that, that eatsice cream.
So ice cream is, I'd say, afairly popular they say vanilla
is still the most popular in thecountry.
The three tubs of vanilla icecream.
You can have one that is veryrich and full of quality cream
(29:04):
and just, is just really aquality type of flavors.
You can have the exact sameingredients, but they used more
sugar or they had a little bitless salt, or it's a little bit
more icy.
And another one has a lot morevanilla.
They're all the same, butslightly different.
And so this is what can help us,this type of distinction, even
(29:29):
in a similar situation forsomething to be slightly
different so that we canrecognize it.
For what we like and what wedon't like, what we want and
what we don't want.
And that's the purpose ofemotions is to guide us towards
what we like and to lead us awayfrom what we don't want.
And it's a.
tool for focus what perceptiveingredients that we're going to
(29:53):
focus on.
So fear is going to keep youvery focused on the object of
fear.
Curiosity is going to keep youwide open and take in a lot more
of the perceptive ingredientsgoing on around you.
So that's why I use food as ananalogy because we can, I have
more recipes for our brain touse more distinction in our
(30:17):
emotion equals resilience equalsthe ability to identify them
more quickly and not say, Idon't know what I'm feeling as
often.
I think everybody's going tohave a moment of, I don't know,
but we could do it less often.
And then this is where yourintelligence skyrockets and
(30:38):
your.
You're actually your healthimproves.
Why?
Because you can distinguishbetween I'm feeling anxiety
versus I'm feeling a littlesick, or I am feeling my anxiety
so I need to do something to getout of it in this moment because
I've been in it for too long.
(30:59):
Or is this really a situationthat requires me to be anxious.
So it's that this.
A higher level of consciousawareness of our feelings is
what I'm trying to drive peopleto.
Okay.
That's much clearer.
Thank you.
I'm wondering now how this howcertain things are impacted by
(31:20):
such, like our you talk a littlebit about in, in your book, I
think about critical thinkingand decision making.
Yes.
How do these impact that?
How do the emotions and such.
So let's go back because theseare a lot are very new concepts,
I think, for a lot of peopleback to this whole idea of what
(31:44):
makes up a memory.
Yeah.
And our memories are acombination of all of this
sensory data.
And They are automaticallylaunched.
Remember what I was saying?
Yeah, and so with all of thatare the feelings like I said the
experience and the feeling andthis is why We have feelings in
(32:05):
certain situations and it can bedifferent from someone else
These memories are what we useto make decisions And so our
thoughts, our actions, ourbehaviors are guided by our
memories.
And so if we have betterdistinction in our emotions,
(32:30):
we're going to also have betterawareness and distinction in our
decisions.
It goes part and parcel.
Yeah, maybe I'm not asking thequestion, but I'm thinking about
ways of making decisions.
That don't involve yourmemories, that allow you to
think beyond bigger.
For example Elon Musk he is heis making decisions to take us
(32:55):
to Mars at some point, right?
That hasn't been done before.
It hasn't, so he does not haveany experience or memories of
such.
Oh, I see what you're saying.
Yeah.
Yeah.
How do you develop?
An ability to do that, to thinkbeyond your memories and your
experiences.
I would say he's a very curiousperson, right?
Okay.
He's not inhibiting his thoughtpattern.
(33:17):
So we're talking here aboutimagination and being creative.
Yeah.
So he's not inhibited by a fear.
So I would say this man isfearless.
So he's using his curiosity.
To try and imagine a differentfuture.
(33:38):
Sure.
And so this is where we use ourcuriosity to imagine our future
that we want to have.
So we, every day we can make adecision to say, I want to have
this in my life.
I want to do this in my life.
And so making those kinds ofdecisions can influence our
(33:58):
future emotions.
Yeah.
Yeah it's developing curiosityand not letting fear be the
ruler of the day.
What, if you want to dampen anypart of your life, just live in
fear.
Sure.
Okay.
No, that was great.
I was thinking about thepractical way of changing those
patterns and maybe we can evengo back to that and I think that
(34:21):
I had some questions around selfsabotage as well.
But before we get into it, Iguess I was just wondering.
I understand the emotions in thehistory, the experiences, the
memories, how they lead into ourdecisions now and all that, but
how do we change that?
And so we can break thosepatterns of self sabotage, which
I was going to ask about next.
(34:43):
If, I don't know if you talkabout that in your book or not.
I think they go I guess I wouldlike to use what you're teaching
to maybe help prevent thatbecause I think it, that's where
it becomes practical, right?
Yes.
And this is going back to fear,right?
Because what to you is selfsabotage?
When you start doing the samethings that cause your, you to
(35:05):
limit yourself over and over orcause the same issues you've
been into before, say an abusiverelationship, right?
I see it a lot.
I've seen it with my siblings,they seem to get themselves over
and over in a abusiverelationship or drug addicts
that just go back to using drugsor, whatever just.
They get somewhere, they have anopportunity to get out, but yet
(35:27):
they sabotage it.
Yeah.
Because what are we doing?
We're going back to thecomfortable, even if it's
unpleasant, it's comfortablebecause we know it.
And it's that fear of change,that fear of change.
Of what's ahead, that what wethink could be ahead.
(35:48):
And that holds us back.
I'd like to share this story.
It's an old Buddhist, Buddhismstory.
It's about a Buddhist monk who'swalking down a country path and
ahead, he spies something longand curved and thin.
And immediately he's like snake.
It's a snake and he needs toget, move forward in order to
(36:13):
get home, to eat and sleep andall this other stuff before it
gets dark.
And his fear is stopping himfrom moving forward because
there's a snake.
Eventually.
He's going through all of thesethings in his head if he goes
back, it's going to take him along ways to get home.
(36:33):
It would take much longer.
It's going to be dark.
So he makes a makeshift torch,goes towards the snake, I guess
to burn it or get it to move.
And he sees it's a rope.
And all this time, his fear kepthim from moving forward because.
It wasn't until he cautiouslymoved towards it that he was
(36:55):
able to see, it wasn't what hehad expected it to be.
If he had been a snake, raisedin a family of snake handlers,
or knew about snakes, heprobably would have seen pretty
quickly.
But his brain predicted a snakeand, because he didn't expect a
piece of rope.
(37:15):
That fear kept him back, but itwas the cautious actions.
that helped him.
And so now once the story isthat once a snake is a rope, it
can never be a snake again.
Our fear of having otherexperiences in life, creating
(37:36):
other ways of being can keep usback just like that rope kept
that Buddhist monk from gettinghome.
And if you think about home asbeing a better life of being
comfort of being.
And gosh, just the life that youwant to live, staying in that
(37:58):
spot or going the long way to,or maybe not even get there.
You just sit there could is justlike letting our fear of
something that we just don'tknow.
And remember fears in thedictionary are real or imagined.
And the majority of our fearsare imagined.
(38:21):
And so investigating.
If we really should be afraid iscaution.
So if we can go from fear tocautious to curious, once we get
curious, that's when we getthose moments of inspiration.
That's when we get those momentsof clarity.
(38:41):
That's when we get those momentsof Elon Musk's visions.
Because he doesn't live in fear.
That was really powerful.
Can you see those steps again,going from fear to cause, to
caution, to curiosity.
Curious, yeah.
Yeah, that, that's awesome.
And I think anybody who, we'veall experienced that, right?
(39:03):
We've all confronted that snakeat some point and and been
afraid and we've decided whetherwe're going to keep going or
not.
And and we've all, at some pointin our lives, I think have kept
going and realized it was just arope.
Yeah.
We can look back and laugh or wecan look back and just realize,
hey, it changed our lives andprobably for the better, right?
Yeah.
Once we just took that step.
Yeah, exactly.
(39:24):
And I, in my core, I feel thatwe are here to have these
experiences, to live our bestlife, to discover who we are and
that is what we want or what wedon't want.
Yes.
And when we understand how thatimpacts the brain.
then we are able to create thelife that we want and not let
(39:51):
fear rule us.
And I say this on pretty muchevery podcast, fear is a tool
that has been used by thepowerful and that power could be
religion, that power could bepolitical, that power could be
parental.
It doesn't matter.
It's even friends.
(40:11):
When we give into fear, We givein to others.
And so sometimes that fear iswarranted and they're trying to
protect us.
Other times it's a controlmechanism.
And I, you can ask my husbandwho loves me, but he knows that
I'm I'm not gonna I'm stubbornand I've got to figure it out
(40:34):
for myself.
I got to see, I got to know Ineed to experience things for
myself to understand because Ijust don't buy into everything
that's fed to me and I say thatliterally because every day
we're given opportunities, otherpeople's recipes.
Yes.
If we don't taste them, we're,we might be just eating garbage.
(40:57):
That's right.
Emotionally.
Yeah.
This is something that's been onmy mind a ton lately especially
as we enter, a presidentialelection, which is when you
really start to see it at itsworst, right?
And I took about four years agowhen, we had our last election,
I went to bed and I thought theelection was going to end up one
way.
And I went to bed and just puton my Facebook page
(41:20):
congratulations to the victor.
And I woke up in the morning,and he was not the victor, it
was somebody else.
And so you can imagine who theplayers are here, but it's
irrelevant.
The point is, I woke up, and Iremember in another chat, a good
friend saying, Hey, Louie,you're getting murdered for your
post and all this stuff.
And I'm like, what?
And I see I had never gotten somany replies in my life.
(41:42):
Hundreds.
I'm not an influencer.
So I just, all of a sudden,you're not an influencer yet.
Thank you.
So I'd never experienced that.
And people who I thought were myfriends started bashing me.
They thought I took a positionand it wasn't a position.
I just, I do that all the time.
Whoever wins, I congratulatethem.
They deserve to be, they won.
And so I, and I thought going tobed that one of them won and and
(42:05):
it wasn't the case.
But it showed me a lot.
I, the last four years I spentstudying like both sides so
much, like I've gotten into whatare their media that they use,
right?
We hear about one area havingcontrol of the media, but
there's so much different mediaout there right now.
And they all lean one way or theother.
And if you start to look at itall, you start to realize that
(42:26):
they're both doing the exactsame thing.
And they're just preying on thefears of one and, of somebody to
Make sure you don't vote theother way.
And it's crazy.
And now with social media, youcan use that.
You can really Use thattechnology to set certain
algorithms and such that feedsthat bias that we have in those
fears that we have even more Soright so it's so much more
(42:49):
important than ever to Figureout how to look at the other
side and the sources of theother side and also how to break
away from all of that to haveindependent thoughts.
And more and more, this podcastis becoming that for me, right?
I'm, I am meeting new peoplelike yourself who are exposing
me to new concepts and ideasthat are expanding my mind
beyond what I'm getting fed byFacebook or Instagram or
(43:12):
whatever, TikTok or, whateversocial media is out there, which
is great.
I'm in a real quandary because Ineed to use social media to
promote my podcast.
I need it to promote my book.
But I don't really engage muchin it.
Because I'm not a huge fan.
And so I, it is a true quandaryand I agree with you.
(43:37):
I actually found a news stationcalled News Nation and it's
about the most middle of theroad.
In fact, my dad's been watchingit now cause he got so disgusted
with the extremes on some of theother ones.
But I do seek out more neutral.
I want to hear both sides.
Truly both sides.
Not this whole BS both sideswhere they're trying to tell you
(44:01):
that.
It's important to hear it, andit's important to look at
context.
That's right.
That is one of the biggestthings.
And what is context giving you?
That more perception.
More perceptive ingredients.
That's when I talk about likeseeking out the, more
(44:22):
information is just giving youmore to use for the future to
make better decisions and anddetermine how you feel about
something, someone only comeswith more information.
That's right.
Yeah, no, that's just a littleside note talking about more
(44:43):
information and context.
There's a man who was Boy, hewas super handsome, very
intelligent.
He worked for a suicide hotline.
And he also was an intern withthe governor of a state and was
(45:04):
just everybody thought.
What a charming, wonderful man.
And you would think wouldn't youwant to be friends with someone
who's like that?
Most people wouldn't mind havingcoffee with someone who's
charming, intelligent and all ofthese great things.
And look at what he did.
He was credited with savinglives with his volunteerism.
His name was Ted Bundy.
(45:24):
He killed hundreds of women.
Wow.
So when I tell you contextmatters, it does.
It doesn't negate his good acts,but it gives you a clear picture
of what he is.
And certainly.
Certainly.
You don't want to have coffee,especially if you're a young
woman.
(45:45):
That's right.
Wow.
Wow.
Yeah.
That's really eye opening.
Kim, this is, this has beengreat.
This is one of thoseconversations that's going to
have me thinking for days.
I really appreciate it.
Yeah.
But on that note, I know yourtime is valuable.
So why don't we switch over toour Wayfinder 4?
Are you ready?
All right.
(46:05):
Yes.
All right.
So one of them, the first one isa hack.
This is just something that youuse every day or regularly in
life to just be productive andcheat life with.
Yeah.
I, when I have a big feeling, Istop and notice it, what's going
on.
And I, that's just my habit andthat that, that helps me out.
(46:30):
I, it might be a lot ofinformation, but I'm like in
between some hormone replacementtherapy and I feel a huge
difference in just the qualityof my thoughts and how my brain
is working and my mood.
And so when I get like angry,I'm like, Boom.
(46:50):
I'm like, okay, what is thisabout?
What's going on?
Is this how I feel right now?
Because I'm not feeling good oris this because I really am mad
at my husband?
And those are things that I doand it doesn't take long, but it
does take connecting to thosefeelings, which I talk about in
(47:11):
my book, by the way, of how toget better at it.
Excellent.
It's also just a great practiceto have just to shows a lot of
emotional intent.
And I'm, I'm a hot bloodedLatino.
So it's I haven't practiced whatI'm, what you're preaching right
now, just taking a step backbefore where we do get to.
Especially hot blooded and angryis it's just always a good
(47:33):
thing.
So any feet but we should dothat with any feeling, right?
Yeah, when i'm hungry i'mnoticing am I hungry or is it
something else?
It's just such a habit for meOkay that I don't think about it
is it's not like I'm consciouslythinking like I need to do this
It's just a habit and that's thewhole point of the book is to
make this a habit so that you'remore consciously aware the brain
(47:57):
just likes to live in asubconscious active world
because it's energy efficient soIt's not every feeling, but some
of the bigger ones for sure.
The ones that I know that areimpacting me, like the ones that
are deemed negative.
(48:17):
I like to say that emotions areboth positive and negative.
It's the out, emotions aren'tpositive or negative.
It's the outcomes that are.
So you can be in love and havenegative outcomes.
Excellent.
What about a favorite?
This could be a book, movie,habit, routine activity, show.
Right now, my favorite part ofthe day is sitting in our
(48:45):
backyard, because my husband andI have four kids.
put together quite a lovelybackyard.
We've got a fountain, the water,we have hummingbirds that come,
and I call it happy hour, assunset's happening, they come
and feed.
We have our dogs, and we justsit in this, in our backyard,
enjoying nature, each othercatching up on the day, and
(49:07):
sharing some food, and maybesome wine.
And it's just A nice moment whenI am connected to, the people
and things that I love.
And anytime I'm in, in thatsituation it's just feels really
good.
So that's my favorite time ofthe day.
(49:28):
I love it.
What about a piece of advice foryou younger self?
Curious, be more curious, beless afraid.
I can't emphasize that enough.
That, that is an importantquality to cultivate and to have
compassion for myself.
It's okay to make mistakes.
I was perfectionist, I'm still awork in progress.
(49:50):
So having love and compassionfor yourself is probably one of
the greatest gifts you can havebecause you can't really have
true compassion or love forother people the fullest kind
until you love yourself.
Yeah.
I love that.
The piece about.
Being okay with making mistakes.
My, my wife lately has beenbringing up the concept of being
(50:14):
messy, being okay with beingmessy.
And I love the way she putsthat.
I never heard it, but the Ithink once we accept that you
can get a lot more done, reallymove forward a lot more.
Yes, if we're more worried aboutthe keeping the house clean than
interacting with other people,then that's a sign that you're a
(50:37):
little disconnected.
That's right.
You will never have to worryabout that in our house.
It's never clean.
So what about a big opportunitymaybe that you're pursuing or
you see out there in the world?
I am working on becoming afamous.
international, internationallyrenowned speaker.
(50:59):
I want to talk about this to theworld.
I feel like this is easy.
It's easy for kids because kidstaste, they can learn all this
stuff.
They eat food.
They know what they like.
They know what they don't like.
And to transfer that to the restof life, I feel is so important.
(51:19):
And emotionally, More of us areshut down than not.
More of us live in fear thannot.
And that's why I want to get outand talk about it.
That's why I want to have mypodcast.
Eventually, I want to I'mactually working on putting my
book on YouTube.
As an audio and, building upgroups and trying to do, that,
(51:43):
that kind of thing just to helppeople.
I don't want them to depend onme.
I want them to depend onthemselves.
I want them to feel like they'vegot the tools and they just need
to keep working them andrefining them.
And I'm just there to supportthem.
I love that.
I think we're both aligned withthat and in a big driving force
for the Wayfinder show is thatas well.
(52:05):
Kim, thank you for all the workyou do and all the wisdom you
brought to our show and ourlisteners.
If people want to know a littlebit more about you, how can they
go about doing so?
You can listen to Flavors ofEmotion, my new podcast and you
can also go to my website,kimcordy.
com.
You can reach out to me withquestions.
(52:27):
I.
Talk about a real fun exercisein my book.
And I say it's fun, but it's away for you to uncover and get
to know what your recipes are.
So if you're interested in doingsome work like that, you can
reach out to me, but I'm not acoach.
You know what I mean?
Like I'm not the type of personI'm more of a strategist, so I
(52:51):
don't.
I don't believe in for me as aperson and having like long
drawn out coachingrelationships, it's more let's
here, do this and I'll see youin four months.
Like you, if you practicesomething and just practice it
and practice it and you geteverything you need in the book
and I think that it's justpracticing and being not afraid
(53:13):
to practice.
Yeah.
And being curious about it.
Absolutely.
You got it.
I'm getting it.
Yeah.
You've very effective.
It's sticking.
Thank you, Kim.
This has been a lot of fun.
Incredibly insightful.
I think our listeners are goingto get a ton out of this and I
hope they go check you out onkimcordy.
com or the flavors of emotion, apodcast.
(53:34):
Or check out your book as well.
I think you have a lot to offer.
Yeah.
And that's on Amazon.
We'll put the links in the shownotes for everybody.
Thanks.
Thank you.
This was a great interview.
I really enjoyed it.
Yeah.
Thank you very much.
We hope you've enjoyed TheWayfinder Show.
If you got value from thisepisode, please take a few
(53:54):
seconds to leave us a 5 starrating and review.
This will allow us to help morepeople find their way to live
more authentic and excitinglives.
We'll catch you on the nextepisode.
If we can go from fear tocautious to curious, once we get
curious, that's when we getthose moments of inspiration.
That's when we get those momentsof clarity.
That's when we get those momentsof Elon Musk's visions, because
he doesn't live in fear.
(00:30):
Welcome to The Wayfinder Showwith Luis Hernandez, where
guests discuss the why and howof making changes that led them
down a more authentic path orallow them to level up in some
area of their life.
Our goal is to dig deep andprovide not only knowledge, but
actionable advice to help youget from where you are to where
you want to be.
(00:52):
Come join us and find the way toyour dream life.
Welcome back to the Wayfindershow.
We're here with Kim Cortee andshe is the host of the Flavors
of Emotions podcast and theauthor of a new book called
(01:13):
Yucky Yummy Savory Sweet,Understanding the Flavors of
Emotions.
The book uses the theory ofconstructed emotions to help
people understand, recognize,and redesign their feelings.
It is a unique approach toemotion management using
concepts from cooking anddining.
She explores how to make senseof our feelings through the lens
(01:34):
of a chef, understanding flavorsin a recipe to make it relatable
and consumable for betteremotional health.
Kim, welcome to the show.
Thanks for having me.
I'm really happy to be here.
Yeah.
Thank you for being here.
I'm curious how did you come upwith the concept of combining,
using cooking and culinaryskills as an analogy to like
(01:57):
emotional management?
It's because perceptions areingredients to Our emotions.
It's what our brain uses tocreate our emotional experiences
and the recipes that it uses tocreate love or whatever is based
(02:20):
on our past experiences.
So if you, whatever we'velearned, our memories,
experiences, all of these thingsare the same thing.
And so I just use the termrecipes because it's the
combination of sensoryexperiences that is what makes
up a memory.
(02:41):
And one of those sensoryexperiences is how we feel.
Before we go dive deeper intothat let's learn a little bit
more about you.
What could you what would yougive as your origin story?
I, I'm an insatiably curiousperson and it really peaked
after I went through a horribledivorce, literally laying on the
(03:03):
floor of my condo, trying tofigure out how can I keep this
from happening to me again.
And I had been through a lot inlife.
I, I had an alcoholic mother.
She wasn't like the kind whobeat you or anything, but
there's still experiences thatyou get from that.
And she died from it too, whichwas devastating.
Horrific.
(03:24):
I had some things that happenedto me as a young girl that
should never have happened.
And so this was like the finalstraw for me.
And I had to figure out how Icould keep the divorce was the
final straw.
And I had to figure out how canI keep this from happening to me
again?
And the fact is I couldn't, butI could change me.
(03:47):
I could make changes.
And so that's when I went insearch of.
What made sense for me.
And then I read this book calledhow emotions are made the secret
life of the brain.
And I was like, boom.
And this was where I understoodthat everything we experience.
(04:08):
Everything that we see, we hear,we smell, it is a prediction of
the brain, and we think we areseeing when we're really
experiencing it in our heads,and our whole world literally is
in our heads, and I don't meanto sound matrixy, but It's just
how the brain works and howwe're designed.
(04:30):
So all of these are justvehicles, this nose, the mouth,
our ears, our skin, and even ourinternal organs are all vehicles
for sending and receivingsensory signals.
Yeah, that, that's interesting.
So first of all, kudos to youfor when, having that, that,
(04:54):
what is it, that growth mindsetto just.
Make sure it doesn't happenagain, right?
I think a lot of us, we go into,when we experience something
tragic, we, or that is hard onus, that we go into victimhood,
right?
And we don't want to look withinand think, how can we prevent
this?
From happening again, right?
(05:15):
And I think that's a big deal.
I would think I spent a fairamount of time in victimhood and
because it's easy to blamesomeone else, right?
Like I didn't do anything wrong,right?
I didn't do anything wrong.
He was the one who cheated.
She was the one who broke myheart.
(05:36):
Cause she was a friend of mine.
And so I did spend time invictimhood and you know what
good it did me?
zilch like none and it just keptme in that place of it's
everyone else, not me.
That's right.
The fact is I made the decisionto marry him.
(05:57):
And I made all of a lot ofdecisions that as an adult,
obviously what happened to me asa child was not my decision.
So what is underlying thosedecisions?
Emotions.
And so what is driving me or myemotions?
And so I needed to figure thoseout.
A lot of people don't realizethat every decision that we make
(06:22):
is underlined with emotion.
We like to think it's purelylogic, but in the end, it's how
we feel that determines whatwe're gonna do.
As logically based as we thinkit is, it's still emotionally
driven.
Emotions.
Yeah, I'm curious when that washappening, what, did you have
(06:44):
like an intuition that somethingwas happening already?
Like in a case with yourhusband.
Oh, yeah.
In fact, this is a major pointin my book.
I suffered my whole life.
Like it was modeled for me and Ithink it was modeled for my
parents and we see a lot ofthis, which is willful
(07:07):
blindness.
Some people would call itcognitive dissonance, but in the
end you still don't want to facereality.
You.
Emotionally can't handle asituation, maybe because you
don't know how to deal with it,or maybe because you think it's
going to be too painful.
The point was I pushed down allof the signs, all of the
(07:33):
signals, all of the feelingsinside of me that said there's
something going on here.
Yeah.
And I just didn't want tobelieve it because I thought
this was the person for the, formy rest of my life.
We had two businesses togetherand his parents were like
(07:54):
parents to me.
And my whole world was ourbusinesses because we worked in
and grew it together.
These two businesses and all ofthe people who worked for us and
all of his patients who came into see us.
That was my whole world.
So I couldn't imagine that I,my, a world without it.
And it was my fear that kept mefrom looking at it and also from
(08:19):
taking action.
Let's back track even further.
How about when you were fallingin love with this gentleman that
you were gonna marry, right?
Bad decision maker?
What's that?
Yeah.
Yeah, bad decision maker.
Did you have any intuition thatthis could happen?
Oh, no.
(08:40):
No.
You thought, oh, this is gonnabe the most loyal partner in
life?
Oh gosh, he was I had, like Itold you I had a few really
rough emotional experiences andmy mom had died from alcoholism.
Soon after that, my fatherremarried somebody very quickly
(09:02):
and that was really hard on me.
Today I know that it's verycommon for a man to After being
widowed to marry again quickly,but at the time it was, I just
thought it was completelydisloyal of my father.
And I had also had an experiencewithin the religion of my youth
(09:24):
that had rocked my spiritualcore.
So I was a wreck when I met myfather.
First husband, I'm married.
The second time, but I was awreck.
And I thought he was my savior.
And he was, he's this New Yorkmacho kind of guy.
And he seemed like he justwanted to take care of me and
(09:47):
protect me.
And yeah I, didn't look hard.
I really didn't look hard.
That was all I focused onbecause I was in so much pain
and he acted like he loved me.
He said all the right things andI do think he did, but I think
he has his own problems thatcame into the relationship and
(10:09):
why he needed me.
And yeah.
So as I started to change it, itdidn't work out too well for
him.
Gotcha.
Okay.
I was just curious because I waswondering if based on your
expertise and emotionalmanagement and how feelings and
such as you described, affect,what our perception is if you
(10:33):
had any, prior You know,feelings or experiences that
would lead, to have that, thateither blinded that perception
of or allowed it to happen.
Do you know what I'm sayinghere?
Yeah.
So I didn't have.
the knowledge I have now, then.
And boy, if I had just even thisskill, because I call it as a
(10:54):
skill, we'll get into it, butthis skill of being able to
connect to your feelings andidentify them we're born with
it.
And then I think we go off therails.
We, it gets, it's like a poorimplementation of software.
If it is the best analogy onlybecause I've.
I implemented software in mycareer.
(11:16):
So the fact at that point intime was I was in so much pain.
I was just looking for someoneto fill this hole that was
inside of me that needed feelingbilling and I wasn't filling it
up myself, so looking forexternal people was a huge
(11:39):
mistake, but.
The fact was, is that I was notemotionally aware.
I was emotionally a wreck.
In fact, I was a horribleemployee, even.
I recently reached out to my oldboss and said, thank you for
putting up with me and notfiring me because I was a wreck.
Yeah, and you know what heresponded?
(12:00):
Yeah, those were interestingtimes.
Which was his way of saying, I'mYou know what?
You were a wreck.
Yeah.
It's that's just how much ouremotions are, our inability to
manage them or identify them canplay havoc in our life.
Yeah.
Where, and so where does thatcome from?
How does that inability tomanage your emotions develop or
(12:21):
better put how do you learn tomanage your emotions?
So I think you got to start withwhat is an emotion, right?
Yeah.
Thank you.
What is an emotion and anemotion is different from
feelings, literally an emotionis an electrical chemical signal
that comes from the brain.
(12:44):
We well multiple organs createthem, but there's a peptide that
gets created from a neuron.
So I like to do, I break it downin the book, but if you think of
our brain is having a bunch ofrecipes.
As what I call it.
So every time we learnsomething, we create some call
(13:06):
it a neural pathway neuronalwiring, but it learning
experiences memories.
It's all the same.
And I call them recipes.
When I said earlier that wedon't see with our eyes,
literally as little kids, weunderstand what a ball is.
We learn what our mother's faceis.
(13:27):
We get these perceptive signalsthat incoming and we learn what
they mean.
So our brain is always trying tomake meaning of incoming
signals.
Okay, so this works for what wehear, what we see, what we
smell, what we taste, what wetouch, and what we feel inside.
The brain, when it gets this,Information a neuron can fire
(13:55):
these peptides that go out tothe body and create feelings.
So the emotion is, in fact, afamous neuroscientist.
Her name is Oh, Good for me.
I just forgot her name, CandicePert.
She calls them molecules ofemotion.
They go out to the body and thenwe experience the sensations and
(14:17):
that's feelings.
So we can produce them, but wecannot connect to those
feelings.
That's the distinction.
Or we can get the feelings andnot understand what they're
telling us.
So feelings come in multiple, oremotions come in two kinds.
(14:38):
There's the kind that tell uswe're hungry, we're thirsty,
we're sick, we need to go to therestroom our heart is racing.
These are emotions and they'recalled homeostatic or the ones
that keep us alive and healthy.
If we ignored eating for longenough, guess what?
We're going to starve and die.
(15:00):
We don't drink water unlessdon't pay attention to those
signals of thirst.
We're also going to die.
And then we have the emotionsthat use the same body parts.
It's like anger and love.
And you will notice anger inyour stomach and maybe, in other
parts of your body.
But that's the same place thatyou're going to feel anger and
(15:25):
hunger, and these two can getconfused.
So that's the important point.
But this system thatcommunicates to us our feelings
it's our ability to connect tothem and to understand them,
which is what.
Gives us that ability todifferentiate the emotions that
(15:45):
what we're feeling so we're bornwith this ability to feel.
We're born with all of thesechemicals and peptides, but how
we label them starts at a veryyoung age.
We know what hunger is, and weknow that when it gets taken
care of because your stomach issatisfied and that feeling,
(16:06):
those pangs go away.
So you learn how to identifythem.
We don't, always have thatdistinction in our emotion as
children on the differentemotion states because maybe our
parents lack the vocabulary ormaybe we weren't taught what
like the difference is betweenbeing angry and being upset or
(16:30):
being miffed or being enraged.
And so our ability to recognizethose different feeling states
is what gives us distinction inour emotions, but also gives us
the ability to recognizedifferent situations that might
call for any of those differentfeeling states.
(16:50):
And those situations are thoseinteroceptive, those, I should
take that back.
It's interoceptive and It, whichis internal signals and extra
receptive, which are exteriorperceptive signals that come in
to the brain.
Did I just make it toocomplicated?
(17:12):
That, that last piece of whatwould be, I'm not sure I
understand the differencebetween the internal and
external perceptions.
Can you give a concrete example?
Yes.
Every time you feel hunger.
That is an internal perception.
Every time you observe theworld, that's an external
(17:34):
perception.
Hearing me is an externalperceptive signal.
Gotcha.
Feeling inside of your body.
So the interior activity thatis.
interoception.
So think of it as feeling theinterior of your body.
Okay.
So I'm interested in the w whenlet's take the concept of a
(17:59):
heartbreak.
Okay.
We get a heartbreak that anemotion that we feel and it
becomes a very physical feeling,right?
Like you said, we feel it in ourstomachs and it can linger and
really shut us down, right?
I'm sure it's a lot like whatyou felt.
When you were treated on rightand how are there ways knowing
the way now the brain works andthe body works that we can Are
(18:23):
there things we can do to workthrough that quicker and it may
be in a more productive wayRather than oftentimes just like
we talk about letting it heal bytime Especially things like a
heartbreak or just somebodyburning us and we feel you know,
burned in some way A lot oftimes it's time that Has to
(18:43):
allow those wounds to heal.
Exactly.
And a scar from a major surgeryis going to heal much
differently than a scrape on theknee.
Sure.
That's why I think, that wordtrauma can be overused and
abused because if we can'tdistinguish situations of depth
with little small incidents, Ithink that it is a disservice to
(19:08):
us to not be able to do that.
You have to allow time to heal.
If you think about what youwould do with a major surgery
scar or major just when it firststarts to heal, you want to do
things to, Help it healcorrectly.
You want to be proactive in thathealing process.
(19:31):
And so why would we want, notwant to do it any differently?
If we kept picking at a scar, ifwe kept, our mind focused on, on
the scar and how much pain we'rein, guess what we're going to
experience a lot of.
More pain.
But if we focus on how to helpit heal or things we can do to
(19:52):
reduce the pain, it doesn't meanthat pain didn't exist, but it's
trying to move on and heal it.
Yeah, I see The difference, solike with a wound, a physical
wound, usually get a timeline,things you give you exercises
and things you can do to beproactive, right, so that it can
maybe even accelerate thattimeline and what have you.
(20:14):
But when it's a traumatic woundI wonder, Are there, it's hard
in that moment to feel like, oh,this feeling is going to pass.
I guess as we age, we learn toaccept that, right?
But you just feel like it's theend of the world, right?
A loved one that passes, aheartbreak, a big loss of some
catastrophic event.
(20:35):
We just, it's hard to acceptthat this wound is going to
pass.
It's going to heal oftentimes,right?
We don't know.
There's no doctor telling us,Hey, just do this and that.
And you're going to be okay.
Right?
Of course not.
Like I said, you have to, youhave to look at are you taking a
minor scratch and treating itlike it's a major wound or are
(20:59):
you accepting like you have amajor wound here and it's going
to take time to heal.
And emotionally, sometimes itstill stings.
For instance, I have hipdysplasia, and I've had both
hips replaced at a very youngage, and I did not heal well
from the second one, and I stillhave, Moments of pain every day.
(21:23):
I can focus on that pain, or Ican notice when it does cause me
problem.
Well, what's, what am I doing?
What is aggravating this?
What's happening to aggravateit?
So We can still have pain overlosses, but it diminishes and it
can become something that youuse to either get into better
(21:45):
physical, like I can, my hip canget better or it is in better
shape if I'm more physicallyactive or if I'm doing things to
keep it strong.
So it's a matter of what youwant to do with it.
And this goes back to, do we.
Do we let that painful situationdrive the rest of our life or do
we use that to create the lifethat we want?
(22:08):
So in my case, I said, I don'twant to have this kind of
heartbreak again.
So I became focused on what Ineeded in a future relationship
that was going to make me happy.
I didn't, I looked at what wentwrong, where I made mistakes
because There was problems withmy picker and I created the
(22:33):
recipe for the relationship thatI wanted and we can do the same
thing with individual emotions.
There, there are things that wedon't even realize from our past
that come up when we experiencefeelings.
And.
When we can uncover them or justsay what has to happen for me to
(22:54):
feel this like what is going onthat why am I feeling this.
And when you look at theingredients or what's going on
around you, you might see that.
Oh, wait.
This really isn't love thisisn't what I need or want in
love.
This is just wrong.
And this is what I want fromlove.
(23:17):
And I try and use the example asif you think you see someone and
they've got their arm aroundsomeone that's not their spouse
and you're like, Oh, look, Joe'scheating on Sally.
And then you look again and yousee that it's not Joe.
And the thing is that what we'refeeling isn't always true.
(23:37):
What we first experience isn'talways right.
Our brain is a predictionmachine.
It predicts every, all of ourexperiences and we can get them
wrong.
And it's when we are, what Isay, take a second taste of a
situation try and get more ofthe flavors of this situation.
(23:59):
And there's a reason why I useflavor.
It's because flavor is acombination of multiple sensory
systems.
So you can take a taste ofsomething and then take a second
taste and it can be there's morein it.
There's more in that than therewas in that initial taste.
Because your first taste, you'remore likely predicting the
(24:21):
flavor.
You're looking at it and you'retasting it and you're like, Oh
yeah, could you expected eggsand ham, scrambled with ham in
it.
And then when you take a secondtaste, you might go, wait,
there's too much salt here.
Or there's something else inthis and you, you can
investigate it.
So that's why I use theseflavors.
These the idea of flavorsbecause it's a skill to be able
(24:45):
to taste something and noticemore flavors and it's a skill to
experience an emotion and noticeit and try and see is there more
to this than what I'm tasting.
I'm experiencing because I mightget it wrong.
One more example is in my book.
And that's of a true story ofthis man who went to a party.
(25:05):
He picked up a glass of wine,took a taste and said, Oh, I
love this wine because it cameout of a bottle of opus one,
which is really expensive.
And that's what he expected.
And we all started laughing athim and he took a second sip and
he's this isn't opus one.
And we were, we knew what thehost had done.
(25:28):
He had poured two buck chuck avery inexpensive wine into the
bottle because his friend waslate and he wanted to play a
joke on him.
That wine didn't, that wine didnot change.
Yeah.
Nothing changed with that wine.
His perception did.
Yeah.
Because he experienced what heexpected.
(25:49):
So understanding that weexperience what we expect.
Can help us to go, what am Iexpecting and what is really
going on?
Is there more to this glass ofwine than meets the eye?
That's funny.
I'm not a wine guy, but I doknow of Opus One.
Yeah.
(26:09):
And I'm sure you know of TraderJoe's 2.
Of course.
That was a classy wine incollege.
Exactly.
Yeah.
That's why I laughed earlier.
You elicited some emotions andfrom my college days when I
heard of Tupac Chuck.
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah.
And you're bringing up animportant point is that with
every memory, because it's acombination of.
(26:32):
Perceptive inputs, right?
Yeah.
Every memory is that and becauseemotions are perceptions.
Yeah.
They're tied up into everymemory.
Yeah.
And when you think about it,every memory is used to create
our thoughts.
So this is why thoughts aredriven more by our emotions than
our emotions drive our thoughts.
(26:53):
Sure.
Thoughts are thoughts, drive ouremotions.
Thoughts can change youremotion, but.
Your initial thoughts areprimarily driven by emotion.
Interesting.
I'm synthesizing what you'resaying, and I, going back to the
example of the flavors, I thinkof it like if you have a good
(27:14):
palate, developed palate, like asommelier with wine, right?
I don't have that for wine, butother things I do, they can
extract all the flavors in that,right?
And just and distinguish, and sothey will never be fooled, no
matter what the bottle is,right?
Between an Opus One, I shouldn'tsay never, that's a strong, they
can get them wrong, but it takesa lot of work to get that kind
(27:36):
of a palette.
But let's just say that they getthem right.
Like these master Psalms, whenthey taste wine they know where
it was, what year, they reallywork it.
Yeah.
It's amazing.
And so I, as I'm hearing yousay, he's I'm understanding it
is that way where you can almostextract every emotion out of a
(27:57):
thought.
Am I getting this right?
And then, or correct me if I'mwrong, and then you can, if you
really understand, then you canstart to work on that post, that
part, that emotion or what haveyou to get it right.
Is that synthesis?
So think of it this way.
Okay.
If you were to pick up a red, aglass of red wine.
(28:19):
Okay.
And you thought that all wineswere Cabernet, and you couldn't
distinguish the differencebetween a Cabernet and Merlot,
you might just say, Oh, thistastes like red wine.
Sure.
When you learn how todistinguish between the
different varietals, then youcan do that.
And then when you learn how todistinguish between regions, you
could do that.
So that's just wine.
(28:40):
But let's just take somethingsimple that people, everybody
can relate to that, that eatsice cream.
So ice cream is, I'd say, afairly popular they say vanilla
is still the most popular in thecountry.
The three tubs of vanilla icecream.
You can have one that is veryrich and full of quality cream
(29:04):
and just, is just really aquality type of flavors.
You can have the exact sameingredients, but they used more
sugar or they had a little bitless salt, or it's a little bit
more icy.
And another one has a lot morevanilla.
They're all the same, butslightly different.
And so this is what can help us,this type of distinction, even
(29:29):
in a similar situation forsomething to be slightly
different so that we canrecognize it.
For what we like and what wedon't like, what we want and
what we don't want.
And that's the purpose ofemotions is to guide us towards
what we like and to lead us awayfrom what we don't want.
And it's a.
tool for focus what perceptiveingredients that we're going to
(29:53):
focus on.
So fear is going to keep youvery focused on the object of
fear.
Curiosity is going to keep youwide open and take in a lot more
of the perceptive ingredientsgoing on around you.
So that's why I use food as ananalogy because we can, I have
more recipes for our brain touse more distinction in our
(30:17):
emotion equals resilience equalsthe ability to identify them
more quickly and not say, Idon't know what I'm feeling as
often.
I think everybody's going tohave a moment of, I don't know,
but we could do it less often.
And then this is where yourintelligence skyrockets and
(30:38):
your.
You're actually your healthimproves.
Why?
Because you can distinguishbetween I'm feeling anxiety
versus I'm feeling a littlesick, or I am feeling my anxiety
so I need to do something to getout of it in this moment because
I've been in it for too long.
(30:59):
Or is this really a situationthat requires me to be anxious.
So it's that this.
A higher level of consciousawareness of our feelings is
what I'm trying to drive peopleto.
Okay.
That's much clearer.
Thank you.
I'm wondering now how this howcertain things are impacted by
(31:20):
such, like our you talk a littlebit about in, in your book, I
think about critical thinkingand decision making.
Yes.
How do these impact that?
How do the emotions and such.
So let's go back because theseare a lot are very new concepts,
I think, for a lot of peopleback to this whole idea of what
(31:44):
makes up a memory.
Yeah.
And our memories are acombination of all of this
sensory data.
And They are automaticallylaunched.
Remember what I was saying?
Yeah, and so with all of thatare the feelings like I said the
experience and the feeling andthis is why We have feelings in
(32:05):
certain situations and it can bedifferent from someone else
These memories are what we useto make decisions And so our
thoughts, our actions, ourbehaviors are guided by our
memories.
And so if we have betterdistinction in our emotions,
(32:30):
we're going to also have betterawareness and distinction in our
decisions.
It goes part and parcel.
Yeah, maybe I'm not asking thequestion, but I'm thinking about
ways of making decisions.
That don't involve yourmemories, that allow you to
think beyond bigger.
For example Elon Musk he is heis making decisions to take us
(32:55):
to Mars at some point, right?
That hasn't been done before.
It hasn't, so he does not haveany experience or memories of
such.
Oh, I see what you're saying.
Yeah.
Yeah.
How do you develop?
An ability to do that, to thinkbeyond your memories and your
experiences.
I would say he's a very curiousperson, right?
Okay.
He's not inhibiting his thoughtpattern.
(33:17):
So we're talking here aboutimagination and being creative.
Yeah.
So he's not inhibited by a fear.
So I would say this man isfearless.
So he's using his curiosity.
To try and imagine a differentfuture.
(33:38):
Sure.
And so this is where we use ourcuriosity to imagine our future
that we want to have.
So we, every day we can make adecision to say, I want to have
this in my life.
I want to do this in my life.
And so making those kinds ofdecisions can influence our
(33:58):
future emotions.
Yeah.
Yeah it's developing curiosityand not letting fear be the
ruler of the day.
What, if you want to dampen anypart of your life, just live in
fear.
Sure.
Okay.
No, that was great.
I was thinking about thepractical way of changing those
patterns and maybe we can evengo back to that and I think that
(34:21):
I had some questions around selfsabotage as well.
But before we get into it, Iguess I was just wondering.
I understand the emotions in thehistory, the experiences, the
memories, how they lead into ourdecisions now and all that, but
how do we change that?
And so we can break thosepatterns of self sabotage, which
I was going to ask about next.
(34:43):
If, I don't know if you talkabout that in your book or not.
I think they go I guess I wouldlike to use what you're teaching
to maybe help prevent thatbecause I think it, that's where
it becomes practical, right?
Yes.
And this is going back to fear,right?
Because what to you is selfsabotage?
When you start doing the samethings that cause your, you to
(35:05):
limit yourself over and over orcause the same issues you've
been into before, say an abusiverelationship, right?
I see it a lot.
I've seen it with my siblings,they seem to get themselves over
and over in a abusiverelationship or drug addicts
that just go back to using drugsor, whatever just.
They get somewhere, they have anopportunity to get out, but yet
(35:27):
they sabotage it.
Yeah.
Because what are we doing?
We're going back to thecomfortable, even if it's
unpleasant, it's comfortablebecause we know it.
And it's that fear of change,that fear of change.
Of what's ahead, that what wethink could be ahead.
(35:48):
And that holds us back.
I'd like to share this story.
It's an old Buddhist, Buddhismstory.
It's about a Buddhist monk who'swalking down a country path and
ahead, he spies something longand curved and thin.
And immediately he's like snake.
It's a snake and he needs toget, move forward in order to
(36:13):
get home, to eat and sleep andall this other stuff before it
gets dark.
And his fear is stopping himfrom moving forward because
there's a snake.
Eventually.
He's going through all of thesethings in his head if he goes
back, it's going to take him along ways to get home.
(36:33):
It would take much longer.
It's going to be dark.
So he makes a makeshift torch,goes towards the snake, I guess
to burn it or get it to move.
And he sees it's a rope.
And all this time, his fear kepthim from moving forward because.
It wasn't until he cautiouslymoved towards it that he was
(36:55):
able to see, it wasn't what hehad expected it to be.
If he had been a snake, raisedin a family of snake handlers,
or knew about snakes, heprobably would have seen pretty
quickly.
But his brain predicted a snakeand, because he didn't expect a
piece of rope.
(37:15):
That fear kept him back, but itwas the cautious actions.
that helped him.
And so now once the story isthat once a snake is a rope, it
can never be a snake again.
Our fear of having otherexperiences in life, creating
(37:36):
other ways of being can keep usback just like that rope kept
that Buddhist monk from gettinghome.
And if you think about home asbeing a better life of being
comfort of being.
And gosh, just the life that youwant to live, staying in that
(37:58):
spot or going the long way to,or maybe not even get there.
You just sit there could is justlike letting our fear of
something that we just don'tknow.
And remember fears in thedictionary are real or imagined.
And the majority of our fearsare imagined.
(38:21):
And so investigating.
If we really should be afraid iscaution.
So if we can go from fear tocautious to curious, once we get
curious, that's when we getthose moments of inspiration.
That's when we get those momentsof clarity.
(38:41):
That's when we get those momentsof Elon Musk's visions.
Because he doesn't live in fear.
That was really powerful.
Can you see those steps again,going from fear to cause, to
caution, to curiosity.
Curious, yeah.
Yeah, that, that's awesome.
And I think anybody who, we'veall experienced that, right?
(39:03):
We've all confronted that snakeat some point and and been
afraid and we've decided whetherwe're going to keep going or
not.
And and we've all, at some pointin our lives, I think have kept
going and realized it was just arope.
Yeah.
We can look back and laugh or wecan look back and just realize,
hey, it changed our lives andprobably for the better, right?
Yeah.
Once we just took that step.
Yeah, exactly.
(39:24):
And I, in my core, I feel thatwe are here to have these
experiences, to live our bestlife, to discover who we are and
that is what we want or what wedon't want.
Yes.
And when we understand how thatimpacts the brain.
then we are able to create thelife that we want and not let
(39:51):
fear rule us.
And I say this on pretty muchevery podcast, fear is a tool
that has been used by thepowerful and that power could be
religion, that power could bepolitical, that power could be
parental.
It doesn't matter.
It's even friends.
(40:11):
When we give into fear, We givein to others.
And so sometimes that fear iswarranted and they're trying to
protect us.
Other times it's a controlmechanism.
And I, you can ask my husbandwho loves me, but he knows that
I'm I'm not gonna I'm stubbornand I've got to figure it out
(40:34):
for myself.
I got to see, I got to know Ineed to experience things for
myself to understand because Ijust don't buy into everything
that's fed to me and I say thatliterally because every day
we're given opportunities, otherpeople's recipes.
Yes.
If we don't taste them, we're,we might be just eating garbage.
(40:57):
That's right.
Emotionally.
Yeah.
This is something that's been onmy mind a ton lately especially
as we enter, a presidentialelection, which is when you
really start to see it at itsworst, right?
And I took about four years agowhen, we had our last election,
I went to bed and I thought theelection was going to end up one
way.
And I went to bed and just puton my Facebook page
(41:20):
congratulations to the victor.
And I woke up in the morning,and he was not the victor, it
was somebody else.
And so you can imagine who theplayers are here, but it's
irrelevant.
The point is, I woke up, and Iremember in another chat, a good
friend saying, Hey, Louie,you're getting murdered for your
post and all this stuff.
And I'm like, what?
And I see I had never gotten somany replies in my life.
(41:42):
Hundreds.
I'm not an influencer.
So I just, all of a sudden,you're not an influencer yet.
Thank you.
So I'd never experienced that.
And people who I thought were myfriends started bashing me.
They thought I took a positionand it wasn't a position.
I just, I do that all the time.
Whoever wins, I congratulatethem.
They deserve to be, they won.
And so I, and I thought going tobed that one of them won and and
(42:05):
it wasn't the case.
But it showed me a lot.
I, the last four years I spentstudying like both sides so
much, like I've gotten into whatare their media that they use,
right?
We hear about one area havingcontrol of the media, but
there's so much different mediaout there right now.
And they all lean one way or theother.
And if you start to look at itall, you start to realize that
(42:26):
they're both doing the exactsame thing.
And they're just preying on thefears of one and, of somebody to
Make sure you don't vote theother way.
And it's crazy.
And now with social media, youcan use that.
You can really Use thattechnology to set certain
algorithms and such that feedsthat bias that we have in those
fears that we have even more Soright so it's so much more
(42:49):
important than ever to Figureout how to look at the other
side and the sources of theother side and also how to break
away from all of that to haveindependent thoughts.
And more and more, this podcastis becoming that for me, right?
I'm, I am meeting new peoplelike yourself who are exposing
me to new concepts and ideasthat are expanding my mind
beyond what I'm getting fed byFacebook or Instagram or
(43:12):
whatever, TikTok or, whateversocial media is out there, which
is great.
I'm in a real quandary because Ineed to use social media to
promote my podcast.
I need it to promote my book.
But I don't really engage muchin it.
Because I'm not a huge fan.
And so I, it is a true quandaryand I agree with you.
(43:37):
I actually found a news stationcalled News Nation and it's
about the most middle of theroad.
In fact, my dad's been watchingit now cause he got so disgusted
with the extremes on some of theother ones.
But I do seek out more neutral.
I want to hear both sides.
Truly both sides.
Not this whole BS both sideswhere they're trying to tell you
(44:01):
that.
It's important to hear it, andit's important to look at
context.
That's right.
That is one of the biggestthings.
And what is context giving you?
That more perception.
More perceptive ingredients.
That's when I talk about likeseeking out the, more
(44:22):
information is just giving youmore to use for the future to
make better decisions and anddetermine how you feel about
something, someone only comeswith more information.
That's right.
Yeah, no, that's just a littleside note talking about more
(44:43):
information and context.
There's a man who was Boy, hewas super handsome, very
intelligent.
He worked for a suicide hotline.
And he also was an intern withthe governor of a state and was
(45:04):
just everybody thought.
What a charming, wonderful man.
And you would think wouldn't youwant to be friends with someone
who's like that?
Most people wouldn't mind havingcoffee with someone who's
charming, intelligent and all ofthese great things.
And look at what he did.
He was credited with savinglives with his volunteerism.
His name was Ted Bundy.
(45:24):
He killed hundreds of women.
Wow.
So when I tell you contextmatters, it does.
It doesn't negate his good acts,but it gives you a clear picture
of what he is.
And certainly.
Certainly.
You don't want to have coffee,especially if you're a young
woman.
(45:45):
That's right.
Wow.
Wow.
Yeah.
That's really eye opening.
Kim, this is, this has beengreat.
This is one of thoseconversations that's going to
have me thinking for days.
I really appreciate it.
Yeah.
But on that note, I know yourtime is valuable.
So why don't we switch over toour Wayfinder 4?
Are you ready?
All right.
(46:05):
Yes.
All right.
So one of them, the first one isa hack.
This is just something that youuse every day or regularly in
life to just be productive andcheat life with.
Yeah.
I, when I have a big feeling, Istop and notice it, what's going
on.
And I, that's just my habit andthat that, that helps me out.
(46:30):
I, it might be a lot ofinformation, but I'm like in
between some hormone replacementtherapy and I feel a huge
difference in just the qualityof my thoughts and how my brain
is working and my mood.
And so when I get like angry,I'm like, Boom.
(46:50):
I'm like, okay, what is thisabout?
What's going on?
Is this how I feel right now?
Because I'm not feeling good oris this because I really am mad
at my husband?
And those are things that I doand it doesn't take long, but it
does take connecting to thosefeelings, which I talk about in
(47:11):
my book, by the way, of how toget better at it.
Excellent.
It's also just a great practiceto have just to shows a lot of
emotional intent.
And I'm, I'm a hot bloodedLatino.
So it's I haven't practiced whatI'm, what you're preaching right
now, just taking a step backbefore where we do get to.
Especially hot blooded and angryis it's just always a good
(47:33):
thing.
So any feet but we should dothat with any feeling, right?
Yeah, when i'm hungry i'mnoticing am I hungry or is it
something else?
It's just such a habit for meOkay that I don't think about it
is it's not like I'm consciouslythinking like I need to do this
It's just a habit and that's thewhole point of the book is to
make this a habit so that you'remore consciously aware the brain
(47:57):
just likes to live in asubconscious active world
because it's energy efficient soIt's not every feeling, but some
of the bigger ones for sure.
The ones that I know that areimpacting me, like the ones that
are deemed negative.
(48:17):
I like to say that emotions areboth positive and negative.
It's the out, emotions aren'tpositive or negative.
It's the outcomes that are.
So you can be in love and havenegative outcomes.
Excellent.
What about a favorite?
This could be a book, movie,habit, routine activity, show.
Right now, my favorite part ofthe day is sitting in our
(48:45):
backyard, because my husband andI have four kids.
put together quite a lovelybackyard.
We've got a fountain, the water,we have hummingbirds that come,
and I call it happy hour, assunset's happening, they come
and feed.
We have our dogs, and we justsit in this, in our backyard,
enjoying nature, each othercatching up on the day, and
(49:07):
sharing some food, and maybesome wine.
And it's just A nice moment whenI am connected to, the people
and things that I love.
And anytime I'm in, in thatsituation it's just feels really
good.
So that's my favorite time ofthe day.
(49:28):
I love it.
What about a piece of advice foryou younger self?
Curious, be more curious, beless afraid.
I can't emphasize that enough.
That, that is an importantquality to cultivate and to have
compassion for myself.
It's okay to make mistakes.
I was perfectionist, I'm still awork in progress.
(49:50):
So having love and compassionfor yourself is probably one of
the greatest gifts you can havebecause you can't really have
true compassion or love forother people the fullest kind
until you love yourself.
Yeah.
I love that.
The piece about.
Being okay with making mistakes.
My, my wife lately has beenbringing up the concept of being
(50:14):
messy, being okay with beingmessy.
And I love the way she putsthat.
I never heard it, but the Ithink once we accept that you
can get a lot more done, reallymove forward a lot more.
Yes, if we're more worried aboutthe keeping the house clean than
interacting with other people,then that's a sign that you're a
(50:37):
little disconnected.
That's right.
You will never have to worryabout that in our house.
It's never clean.
So what about a big opportunitymaybe that you're pursuing or
you see out there in the world?
I am working on becoming afamous.
international, internationallyrenowned speaker.
(50:59):
I want to talk about this to theworld.
I feel like this is easy.
It's easy for kids because kidstaste, they can learn all this
stuff.
They eat food.
They know what they like.
They know what they don't like.
And to transfer that to the restof life, I feel is so important.
(51:19):
And emotionally, More of us areshut down than not.
More of us live in fear thannot.
And that's why I want to get outand talk about it.
That's why I want to have mypodcast.
Eventually, I want to I'mactually working on putting my
book on YouTube.
As an audio and, building upgroups and trying to do, that,
(51:43):
that kind of thing just to helppeople.
I don't want them to depend onme.
I want them to depend onthemselves.
I want them to feel like they'vegot the tools and they just need
to keep working them andrefining them.
And I'm just there to supportthem.
I love that.
I think we're both aligned withthat and in a big driving force
for the Wayfinder show is thatas well.
(52:05):
Kim, thank you for all the workyou do and all the wisdom you
brought to our show and ourlisteners.
If people want to know a littlebit more about you, how can they
go about doing so?
You can listen to Flavors ofEmotion, my new podcast and you
can also go to my website,kimcordy.
com.
You can reach out to me withquestions.
(52:27):
I.
Talk about a real fun exercisein my book.
And I say it's fun, but it's away for you to uncover and get
to know what your recipes are.
So if you're interested in doingsome work like that, you can
reach out to me, but I'm not acoach.
You know what I mean?
Like I'm not the type of personI'm more of a strategist, so I
(52:51):
don't.
I don't believe in for me as aperson and having like long
drawn out coachingrelationships, it's more let's
here, do this and I'll see youin four months.
Like you, if you practicesomething and just practice it
and practice it and you geteverything you need in the book
and I think that it's justpracticing and being not afraid
(53:13):
to practice.
Yeah.
And being curious about it.
Absolutely.
You got it.
I'm getting it.
Yeah.
You've very effective.
It's sticking.
Thank you, Kim.
This has been a lot of fun.
Incredibly insightful.
I think our listeners are goingto get a ton out of this and I
hope they go check you out onkimcordy.
com or the flavors of emotion, apodcast.
(53:34):
Or check out your book as well.
I think you have a lot to offer.
Yeah.
And that's on Amazon.
We'll put the links in the shownotes for everybody.
Thanks.
Thank you.
This was a great interview.
I really enjoyed it.
Yeah.
Thank you very much.
We hope you've enjoyed TheWayfinder Show.
If you got value from thisepisode, please take a few
(53:54):
seconds to leave us a 5 starrating and review.
This will allow us to help morepeople find their way to live
more authentic and excitinglives.
We'll catch you on the nextepisode.
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