September 6, 2023 • 40 mins
This week we're joined by Katie and Ben Zweber, the adventurous duo behind the popular travel blog, Two Wandering Soles, as they share their incredible experiences of exploring the world with their baby, Juniper. From the comfort of their custom-built camper van, to backpacking and flying overseas as a family, they have aimed to make the world their baby’s playground.
We hear about how Katie and Ben customized their camper van for their growing family, what they did to help their daughter get comfortable on the road (and build their confidence traveling as new parents), and the ways their travel style is evolving with Juniper as she grows and develops her own interests.
As we learn from Katie and Ben, traveling with a baby doesn't mean you have to give up your love for adventure. With careful planning, a spirit of adventure, and a willingness to adapt, you can nurture a love for exploration in your child, create memories that will last a lifetime, and experience the world in a new light – through a child's eyes.
Links mentioned:
Vanlife Jumpstart (6 guides in 1!): Van Build Specs, Van Build Planner, Van Build Budget Tracker, Van Build Layout Worksheet, Vanlife Job Ideas, Vanlife Cookbook
Favorite Gear for Vanlife with a baby
Van Conversion Academy
Follow Katie and Ben:
Two Wandering Soles
Instagram
YouTube
Connect with Kristin Hanes and The Wayward Home!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Have you ever thought it would just be impossible to
travel with a baby or a toddler,and especially in a camper van?
Well, I've been followingtravel bloggers Katie and Ben
from TwoWanderingSoulscom asthey've taken their baby all
over the world in multiplecamper vans, hotels and their
very own van, which theyspecifically built to
accommodate the newest member oftheir family.
In this episode of the WaywardHome Podcast, we'll also talk
(00:22):
about exactly how Katie and Benbuilt out their latest camper
van, how they got their babyused to life on the road, their
biggest tips about travelingwith kids and some handy gear
they can't live without.
Welcome to the Wayward HomePodcast all about van life, boat
life and nomadic living.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
We'll bring you tips, interviews and stories from the
road and on the water.
Now, here's your host.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Kristen Haynes.
Hey there, I'm Kristen Haynesat thewaywardhomecom and I spend
half the year in my camper vanand half on my sailboat in
Mexico.
I hope to inspire you to livenomatically too In this episode
of the Wayward Home Podcast.
I'm really excited to bechatting with Katie and Ben from
the travel blog Two WanderingSouls.
I've been following them foryears, even before their little
(01:02):
baby was born, and it's been soexciting seeing how they've
incorporated baby Juniper intotheir life of travel.
Not only have they traveledextensively with their baby in
their own camper van, she's alsobeen all over the world to 13
countries.
These guys have so many amazingtips and they truly are an
inspiration.
Let's get into it All right.
Thanks so much for joining meon the Wayward Home Podcast.
(01:23):
I'm super excited to talk toyou guys about van life with a
baby.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, thanks for having us.
I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Yeah, I've been having so much fun watching all
your travels with your baby,everything from Europe to the
van life.
You guys have really beentraveling so much and it's such
an inspiration to me and, I'msure, to other parents who also
have babies and they'rewondering can I travel?
So many people are wonderingthat, and so you've proven that
yes, you can.
So I wanted to first.
(01:51):
I guess we should start at thebeginning with van life.
So tell me a little bit abouthow you guys started with van
life in the first place.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, so back in 2014 , early 2014, we quit our jobs,
our comfortable jobs Ben used tobe an engineer, I was in
graphic design and we quit ourjobs to Backpack in South
America, and this snowballedinto a bunch of different
adventures.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
We ended up teaching Teaching English for a year in
South Korea.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
And then eventually, after a few years, returning
back to the US and we worked fora season at a ski resort and it
was kind of one of those thingswhere we kept seeing what the
next adventure would be.
But at this point after the skiseason we were pretty much
broke, but still wanted to.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
We still wanted to travel around the United States,
and we found out the best wayto do that was in van life.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
And so things were a little different.
This was in 2017.
We got a van for $2,000, whichyou definitely couldn't do now.
I mean, it was like an old beatup Chevy G20.
So it wasn't like a nice van,but $2,000, we spent like.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
We spent like a week converting.
It Spent like maybe like $1,000.
Yeah, and so all in $3,000, wehad this budget build and Very
budget, like very, very basicyeah.
And we traveled the West Coastfor the whole entire summer and
it was the best summer of ourlives.
Yeah, it was so cool.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Absolutely fell in love with van life and knew that
that like wouldn't be our lastone.
And so a few years later, aftersome more international
adventures, came back to the USand had a little bit bigger
budget to work with more than$3,000.
And that time we built a vanthat was kind of our dream van.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Yeah, it was a pro master 2500 and.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Pro master 2500 and it was perfect, Like it had all.
We had all those years to thinkabout.
What would we change with ourfirst budget build?
And we made it happen in oursecond.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
But then we found out that we were expecting a baby
and this van was a short wheelbase and only barely had room
for the two of us, so definitelynot room for a third human.
And so we ended up selling thatvan and getting an extended pro
master.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
And so we built that out just this.
Well, was it 2020, the springof 2020?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
and.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
This last build, though, is 2022.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
What did I say?
Yeah, 2020.
So we built this Like that's along time ago.
We built this in the spring of2022 and With an infant, which
to anyone else out there, likeyou can totally build a van with
a small baby, but don't do iton a super tight timeline,
(04:50):
because we had a very tighttimeline to work with and it was
stressful.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Well, we got it done and we.
We've been traveling the van onand off ever since.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, it's so cool that you guys did that and
you've brought the baby on somany amazing adventures.
And I'm curious about, like,when you were deciding on
building this third van and youknew you'd have a baby in there,
what were some of the thingsyou had to think about that were
different than some of yourother builds?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yeah.
So I mean, like for starters,she needs a place to sit,
obviously when we're on the road.
So we needed a bench seat wherewe could put her car seat, and
we ended up putting a two seaterbench seat in there, even
though it takes up more space.
But you know, in the future ifwe ever have another child, then
it means we don't have toreconfigure everything again.
(05:38):
So we have a two seat benchseat.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
And that also helps with us if she's having a tough
time when we're driving and oneof us can go back and sit with
her, and that really helps out.
Yeah, so that was obviously likea big thing to think about is
this bench seat, because thattakes up a lot of room and
definitely like was a big factorin figuring out our layout and
(06:02):
we had to certainly makecompromises because you know
that takes up quite a bit ofspace, yeah, but the bench seat
area kind of becomes Juniper'sown area, and now when we were
traveling the third winter, whenshe was really little, we
actually installed like kind ofa fold away crib against the
wall, and so she was able to, wewere able to make a crib and
(06:27):
she slept there throughout thenight and, yeah, that was really
nice.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Yeah.
So now that she's bigger though, when she was about a year old,
that crib started to kind oflike she started to kind of
outgrow the crib and so we thenby we I mean Ben created a kind
of like a toddler bed, and againit's utilizing the space where
we have the bench seat.
So again it's, like Ben said,kind of her area.
(06:51):
We have storage for all of herlike toys, clothes, her like
eating chair, her car seat andthen also her bed area all in
one space.
So that's kind of like the maincomponent of the design.
That was different.
We also decided in this buildto have an indoor bathroom and
(07:11):
shower, just so that we weremore comfortable, you know,
cleaning her off at night andthings like that.
And our previous van had likean outdoor shower, which would
be as wonderful with a child.
So interesting.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah, that's a really good idea Cause, like, our van
does not have any indoor youknow shower, bathroom or
anything, but I could see howthat could be amazing if you
have a very, you know, a baby inthere.
Like, how big of a differencedid that make for you guys?
Speaker 2 (07:38):
It's been really nice .
I mean, at this point she'sstill kind of too young to
actually shower by her.
You know, like standing up inthe shower.
We've been doing like sinkbaths with her, but in the
future I think it will be nicefor her to be able to rinse off
and then she's still in diapers.
But in the future, like we havea composting toilet, so that'll
(07:59):
be interesting, like figuringout how to potty train on the
composting toilet.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Very true, that's great, I'm so cute.
So you guys.
It started out as an emptycargo van, so you had to put the
bench seat in right, install it.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
We did.
Yeah, yeah, we installed.
I bought some brackets and theninstalled it to the frame of
the floor of the van and, yeah,it's locked in there.
It's not going anywhere, soit's pretty secure.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
That's cool.
And then you said somehow thather bed integrates with the
bench seat.
Describe how that works, yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
So the bench seat.
So basically I built like arecessed wall and the crib kind
of folds out from there, andthen there's a part that hangs
from the ceiling and then theother one sits on the bench seat
and it's nice and level andflat and very secure, like I
(08:57):
even, like, pushed myself up onthere and it's not going to move
.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
So that's the crib.
That was for when she wasyounger, but now that she's
older we have basically thebench seat is where she sleeps.
We have a mattress that goes ontop of the bench seat and a
little piece of wood that kindof inserts to extend the Like an
additional platform.
(09:20):
Yeah, so the bench seatactually turns into her toddler
bed.
So essentially we have two beds, two child beds, in our van
right now.
Yes, Cool.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
That's a really good use of space, though, to use the
bench seat for both the carseat and the bed.
I think that's amazing becauseI've seen some people who have
like the double beds in the backof the van for two bunks, like
two gigantic bunks, so thatsounds like it takes a lot of
space too.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Yes, I mean, I feel like that is a good solution for
older kids too.
I mean, this situation like thebed sleeping or the situation
that we have now for sleeping,is probably not going to last
when she is much older than fiveor six years old.
So I think there's it's justfun seeing different layouts for
different types of situationsand, like we've gone through
(10:11):
three very different layoutsourselves and then seeing people
that have older children orteenagers or whatever, you can
make a layout that suitswhatever you need really.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Right, that's the beauty of a van conversion over
like an RV or an even a van froma company.
That's just a set layout.
It's cool that you can justdesign your own.
You know, make that happen,yeah, yeah.
So tell me a little bit about,like, the first trip you took
with Juniper.
It sounds like she was veryyoung on that trip, right?
Sorry, did I?
Speaker 2 (10:49):
cut out, got it cut out there, let me do.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
I'll do that part again.
All right, so tell me about thefirst trip you guys had with
Juniper.
It sounds like she was Did itcut out again.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
No you're good right now.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Okay, cool, I'll try it one more time.
I don't know what's going on.
That's bizarre.
All right, I'll do the introagain.
Okay, so tell me a little moreabout your first trip with
Juniper.
It sounds like she was a prettysmall baby at the time, and
what was that like?
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Yeah, so well we've done.
When she was very young we didsome just small getaways and I
think that that was reallycrucial in like us feeling
comfortable doing bigger tripsinternationally and then in the
van, like we just did a coupleof weekends away and really kind
of got our bearings.
But our first major trip withher was to Mexico when she was
(11:42):
just about three months yeah.
So we got her a passport assoon as she was born, like just
weeks after.
But in terms of our first campervan trip with her.
We actually got our house readyfor renters.
We had renters move in and wemoved into our van, so they had
a six month lease and we were inour van for six months and so
(12:07):
during that time we drove fromBend, oregon, where we're based.
We drove to Minnesota, wherewe're both from and we have
family.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
And my brother was getting married in August, so
that was kind of like thehalfway point, and so from there
we hung out in Minnesota formaybe a month or so, and then we
headed out to New England areato see the fall foliage.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Before that, though, we took a little like two, three
week trip to Scotland, wherewe've rented a camper van, so we
had Juniper has now been inwhat three camper vans so ours,
plus a camper van rental inScotland and a camper van in
Ireland, so she's wellacquainted with that.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yeah, you were saying that you thought it was
instrumental when, like she wasreally little, you started
bringing her into vans or atleast changing her environment,
taking her on trips, and do youthink that helped her adjust to
changes and sleeping indifferent places and stuff?
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Totally.
I think she's actually a veryadaptable.
That was the word.
I was looking for veryadaptable, little at this point.
She's a toddler, but littlehuman.
She does really well in allsorts of situations and that
doesn't mean that I mean everytime we get to a point where
we're like, wow, this is easyshe you know, clips it and
(13:30):
changes around and we have threeof us, yeah, and it's a work
out, but it eventually does workout.
Yeah, and I think, just like ingeneral, her foundation is being
pretty adaptable.
And then I think for us as well, we have set ourselves up to
parent in a way that is alsoable to work with changing
(13:50):
environments.
So like taking a flight at thispoint doesn't scare us too much
, because we've done it manytimes.
Or hopping into a camper van islike not really a big deal.
We know that we can, can workwith it.
So, yeah, kind of put ourselvesin situations so that now we
feel pretty comfortable withanything.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Oh, that's amazing.
And how does she do with, like,the driving part of it?
Has that ever been a challengefor you guys?
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Yeah, I mean, no one loves sitting in a seat for a
long time, so we do try our bestto limit our really long drives
and plan them for over her naptimes or during hours where
she's not going to want to berunning around.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Before we take frequent breaks to go find the
closest park and just kind ofrun around and get our wiggles
out.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yes exactly.
There are times, though, likeBen was saying, his brother got
married so we had to be back inMinnesota by a you know a hard
deadline.
So there are times where wehave longer drives, and so one
thing that we have kind of foundthat helps is we used to say
that we're we'd be parents thatwouldn't give our kid any screen
(14:58):
time, but it just happens thatit is very helpful in some
situations.
So, during times where wereally need to get a long drive
in, we have an iPad, that wherewe can download some like child
shows and use an exercise bandto strap it to the car seat, so
it kind of like is a DIY TV, andso that really helps.
(15:21):
Having snacks really helps,having her stuffed animals and
her toys so she overall doespretty well with long drives,
especially with all of thosetools.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
But that's also the best thing about being in a
camper van is, if you startdriving and something just
doesn't work out with her andshe's just not, she's getting a
little fussy.
We can always just pull over,take a break like, get the
wiggles out and then start upagain.
Like we were not in a car or,you know, like stuck on a flight
(15:54):
, like we can easily manage yourown time because we were in a
camper van, that's true?
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Yeah, that's very true.
That's what I always love about, you know, van life and camper
van is I have my food at my bed,I have like all these comforts
where you can just stop and liketake a break, and so I think it
does provide like a ton offlexibility both with and
without a baby, but I imagineeven more with a baby than maybe
even other types of travel.
Like how is it compared withyou guys, because you've done
both van life with her andyou've done some hotel kind of
(16:21):
travel with her?
Like how has that been?
Is it both been awesome orwhat's been some of those
differences?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah, I mean like they both have their perks right
.
But kind of like Ben was saying, with a van you have everything
you need at your disposal atall times.
So we, like with hotels,sometimes it's not set up how we
would want it necessarily or wedon't have all the things with
us.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Yeah, like the crib that they have is not ideal for
her, whereas in the camper vanwe built everything for her, and
so it really works out in thecamper van.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yeah, we honestly like if we had to choose.
I mean, hotels are wonderful,especially in certain situations
, but if we had to choose, Ithink van life is almost easier.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Yeah, I mean it's more.
It is comfortable.
Yeah, comfortable at times.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Yeah, and I also think just having the same bed
you're sleeping in every day isreally comforting, especially
when you're traveling.
Because, I mean, I'm offeredI'm in a house right now with my
relatives and I'm alwaysoffered to sleep in the house
and I'm like no, I'll just stayin the van.
You know, it's my bed and it'sprobably the same for you guys
where, even if you are in ahotel, it's still hard to adjust
it first.
I think.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yeah, absolutely.
And like for her being a, youknow, a toddler, I think she
understands her space too.
So like she knows that thecamper van she, it's familiar to
her, so it feels comfortable toher as well.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Yeah, yeah.
And how has her sleeping been?
Like when you guys aretraveling, like does she kind of
melt into that pretty easily,the naps and the nighttimes and
everything.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
She does for the most part.
Like there's different phases,like I mean, before having
children we didn't know anythingabout what baby sleeping
patterns were like, but nowwe're like deep into this and
there's, you know, certainmonths where it's like a
regression that everyone knowsabout and so she certainly is a
normal child, and there aremonths where she doesn't sleep
(18:18):
quite as well as others, but forthe most part she does pretty
well in the van.
How we have things set up is wehave her bed and we have Like
curtains on either side so itblocks it off from our space,
which has been really nicebecause we can continue to hang
out at night after she goes tobed which she goes to bed at
(18:38):
like 7 30 and she's prettyconsistent with that and so we
can play games or Work, or wehave a projector so we can like
watch TV, watch movies and then,like we have the curtains that
block off the light from her andshe sleeps pretty well when she
if there are any times whereshe stirs in the middle of the
(19:00):
night, like sometimes, we'rejust bringing her into bed with
us and then she'll fall rightback asleep.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
So we do have like a queen-sized bed in the van.
So, yeah, yeah, pretty comfy.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
That's really cool.
You have the curtains.
I was wondering about that,about that, because kids go to
bed so early.
You want to have a place whereyou can hang out.
You don't have to be outsidefor like hours, you know trying
to be quiet, but you can beinside.
That's so cool.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
In the van too, so that if we're at a place with
campfire we could have thecamera pointed at her while
she's sleeping and we can justbe out Hanging out by the fire
and stuff and just watch her onthe little monitor.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Yeah, that's so cool.
I'm wondering.
You mentioned some of the gearyou had, but what are some of
the main like items you foundessential?
For other people listening andwant to try this like, what are
some things you'd recommend?
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Yeah, there's a Travel high chair.
It's like a super portable highchair.
I think the brand is calledHiccup Pop.
We actually have a Checklist ora packing list for all of our
favorite gear for a van lifewith a baby or toddler.
So if you're interested, besure to check it out.
It's free.
But that high chair has beenreally great because she can.
(20:12):
She can eat in the van or on apicnic table or on the ground,
whatever kind of situation we'rein.
It's been really great.
And we also have like a splashmat kind of thing, almost like a
tablecloth, and it goes.
But it packs up very small andit goes underneath the high
chair so that even in situationssometimes will be lazy and
(20:34):
we'll put her on top of our bedto eat but she won't make a mess
because we put that splash paddown.
So that's been clutch.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Yeah, I mean I would say like in the van is nice also
having a sound machine and likewe have like a little tap light
to Kind of see what's going onand stuff and for her just to
have a little bit of light.
They'll.
Those are really helpful forher to go to sleep and yeah, and
I mean they're kind of similarto things.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
I don't say you'd have at home.
But another thing that was justkind of fun and I think she's
getting a little too big for itnow, which is kind of sad.
But we had a swing that wouldattach into the, like, the cargo
van door.
It attached into the frame andit was just like a little swing
that when she was younger wewould put her in and she loved
(21:23):
it and kind of, on that note,just being able to spend time
outside I think is the biggest,like, the biggest way to occupy
her and keep her happy whenwe're in the van.
So whenever we park up at acampsite or wherever we are, we
like to Put our outdoor mat downso that she has a place, a safe
(21:45):
place to play, and then we alot of times put our awning out
as well just to make sure it'sshaded and, you know, protected
from the elements.
So having those things aren'tnecessarily like Kid gear, but
it definitely is helpful for vanlife with a baby.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Yeah, you guys mentioned the outside part and I
can imagine that would be amajor benefit, especially to her
, to be in nature.
So much like.
What do you think are some ofthe benefits to traveling with,
you know, babies, toddlers andchildren, even in like, in this
manner?
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah, well, first of all, it's also like we pack a
lot of toys and books and thingsthat she plays with at home,
but we find no matter where wego.
If we're outside, she's goingto choose literally anything
besides the toys, like.
Right now she's in a phasewhere she loves rocks, you know,
leaves twigs.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Anything becomes a toy to her and she hands me
every single stick that shepicks up, like literally, she
finds a stick like dead dad,dead dad, this is yours.
Yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Yeah, so it's.
It's kind of fun seeing that,though in there, like her
playing with the world aroundher, and I mean it sounds cliche
, but when we used to go on awalk or a hike, we would really
focus on getting to ourdestination and like Hike kind
of fast and not necessarily likeslow down, but now with her,
(23:07):
like we're constantly going soslow, looking at every little
flower, and I think that's notonly good for her to be
experiencing the world in thatway, but for us to remember that
you know the beauty a lot oftimes is in those small things,
and so I think it's it's Reallyfun to be able to see you again.
(23:27):
It sounds so cliche, but likeseeing the world, seeing her see
the world, watching her see theworld.
How do you say that?
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Seeing the world through her eyes.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Yeah, yeah, I can see that it's a great way to slow
down, and you know, I readarticles I just read one
recently about how kids aren'toutside enough and that they're
on screens and that it'sactually affecting their Vision.
Some of them are becomingnearsighted because they're not
outside at all.
And it's just amazing to hearyou know how much Juniper is
outside and I'm sure that's likereally good for her.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
I mean, that's such a cool thing to be able to play
with nature around you and somany kids don't have that, and
so that's so neat we can tell,like where we can also tell on
days when she hasn't beenoutside enough it's she's not
tired enough to go to sleep.
So it's always very telling.
Like when we're in the campervan she sleeps like a log for
(24:18):
the most part because we've beenoutside exploring and she's
really being a child in a kid.
So yeah, it's cool.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Oh, that's so fun to see and, yeah, cool.
So you did the first trip tothe New England, and where else
have you been with her sincethen?
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah, so we spent a couple months out in New England
and then in Canada in the falland it was magical.
It was kind of like a dreamtrip that I had been like
planning in my head for yearsand we finally took it, which
was super cool.
And then since then we havebrought her to Hawaii and we
(25:01):
went to England to visit mybrother in Ireland.
In Ireland again, we rented acamper van, so another little
van adventure.
And then this summer we've beenmostly just exploring the
Pacific Northwest in the van andkind of hanging out in this
area.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Yeah, it's been a really good summer for her.
We've taken a few van trips,and just not as extended as it
was last year, but definitely agood little taste of the van.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
But in two days we're actually headed out on a couple
week road trip into BritishColumbia and Alberta, so that'll
be really fun.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
That's going to be so beautiful seeing it in the fall
I guess it's almost fall, notquite fall, but that's still
going to be stunning.
Yeah, I think I'm wonderingwhat advice you guys have for
parents listening, because Ifeel like a lot of people don't
travel with their kids becausethey do have those fears, like
you were saying.
Like oh, what are they going tobe like on the plane?
Are they going to sleep?
Like there's so much anxiety.
But like what would you tellparents that are thinking about
(26:01):
this stuff?
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Yeah, I feel like we are very blessed with Juniper
and her adaptability for totravel and to like interact in
new environments and things likethat.
But I feel like we started thatout from square one with her is
to try out different likedifferent hikes or different
(26:30):
places, and just can likeconstantly.
We're traveling and doing newthings with her.
I think that helped out justfrom square one with her.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yeah, I think like what Ben was saying is you know,
every kid is different, so it'shard to give advice to children
as a whole.
But I think kind of along thosesame lines, to like starting
super small I think builds yourown confidence and it also kind
of teaches your child an innatesense of adaptability.
(27:01):
And like for us, our very firstouting with Juniper was
literally just to our favoritecoffee shop but it felt like a
big deal because we had neverbeen there with a baby and we
had never changed a diaper inpublic and things like that.
And from there we went to, wenton our first hike and after
that it got a little bigger likean overnight.
And so I think the like, the mybiggest piece of advice is to
(27:25):
start super small, likesomething that doesn't even
sound like an adventure oranything out of the ordinary,
like going to a coffee shop andfrom there building it up, I
think not only builds up yourconfidence but it, you know,
opens your child's eyes toplaces outside of the norm.
And then I think the otherpiece of advice I have is just
(27:49):
do it, like I I get nervoussometimes to being on a flight
for a long time, like at thispoint.
We've been on a lot and I knowthat at some point we'll be able
to calm her down or it won't beas bad as we're anticipating,
but almost all of the time, likethings go better than you think
they will.
Kids are really resilient andoftentimes I don't know Juniper
(28:12):
surprises us and it can bepretty fun.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Like Juniper's quite curious about the world around
her and she's always looking atother people and trying to say
hi and just really, I don't know, I feel like it, it becomes a
lot easier than what's built upin her heads.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Yeah, yeah, so true, and I just had a question that I
lost.
I'm going to have to edit that.
I was like I'm going to ask youguys, um, oh, I wanted to ask
you guys, you've been alsobackpacking with her, which is
really interesting.
I think that's another fearpoint that people have is
backpacking with young children,and you did that, and what was
that?
Speaker 2 (28:49):
like yeah.
So again, like we, our firsttime, we started really small
with a hike that wasn't, youknow, one that we would
necessarily choose if it wasjust us, because it was really
easy and nothing, um, usuallylike, if it's just us, we'll
choose like a really intensehike, and we went pretty small
and that again gave us theconfidence to do a bigger hike.
(29:11):
But again, kind of like we weresaying before everything
becomes a toy or everythingbecomes, she's curious about it,
and so I think, um a lot of ourfears of like, how are we going
to entertain her or how are wegoing to feed her?
It really is just like you'reparenting just in a different
location and we fed her justlike we would at home.
(29:34):
We're just in a different place.
She played just like she wouldin a park, but we're just a
little more remote and wecertainly one thing that we did
when we um, one thing that webought when we knew that we
would be backpacking with achild, is we bought an SOS
device, um, which just makes usfeel a lot more comfortable.
We never had that one, it wasjust the two of us which we
probably should have.
(29:55):
Um, now we're like okay, ifwe're going to be bringing our
daughter into the wilderness.
Um, we just want to have thatfor for our own peace of mind
and in case anything goes wrong,we know that we have a way to
get help.
Um, we also took a wildernessfirst aid course, um, while I
was pregnant, so it just againmade us feel better.
(30:16):
Again, we're not going to likeknow how to save lives out in
the wilderness, but it made usfeel more comfortable and just
be a little more prepared andeverything.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Yeah, and one one item we bought for Juniper was
this like toddler baby sleepingbag and it's the cutest thing,
like she gets in there and she'sjust like I don't know.
It's so adorable yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Oh, that's so cool.
I think it's great howadventurous you guys are with
her.
Um, have you felt like yourtravel style has changed at all,
or have you just been sort ofgoing at it like you did before,
cause you were traveling fulltime?
I know that was a change beforeJuniper even, but like, just in
your travel style, has thatchanged a lot or maintained the
same?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (31:00):
I mean, our travels have definitely changed in terms
of like the amount of thingsthat will fit into a day and
just knowing like we have to puther needs before ours.
So I used to have and I stilldo like a ton of FOMO.
So if I go to a place I want tosee all the things, do all the
(31:20):
stuff, and now I've just I'mtrying to become more
comfortable not doing everythingand knowing that I can't do
everything.
So I think that's kind of likethe biggest change.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
but like it.
Like if we're in a middle ofthe hike and all of a sudden it
starts downpouring, like we'rehalfway up the mountain, do we
keep going or do we turn back?
I mean, if it was just us twowe'd probably keep going and but
since we have baby with us,we're probably going to turn
back and we have multiple timesturned turned back because it
(31:52):
just didn't make sense to keepgoing.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
It's not fun for her.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
It doesn't, it's no longer really enjoyable for us,
and so, yeah, it just makes moresense to kind of turn around
that point.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
But I think one thing that we kind of have tried to
carry through is still doing thethings that interest us on our
trips and our travels.
So not necessarily at thispoint in Juniper's life going to
like amusement parks for kidsor kid restaurants like we're
typically still going to, likethe places that we would have
(32:27):
gone before.
We're just adapting a littlebit now that we have her with us
.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
And we've taken Juniper on like many tours.
Like in the past we've gone onmany food tours and Juniper's
joined us now and that's kind offun.
She like nipples on our foodand stuff, yeah, and so in that
aspect, like she hasn't reallychanged too much of that.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Yeah, it's amazing that you've been able to keep up
the travel and it's so fun tobring her and she's going to be
like this amazing kid with allthese experiences and all a huge
palette for all this world food, world cuisine is what you.
That's so amazing.
I just love it and obviouslyyou know travel is also part of
your you know career and yourremote income and stuff, and so
(33:12):
that's probably was importantfor you guys to keep that going,
even after a kid.
But you'd probably be travelinganyway even if you weren't a
travel blogger, right?
Speaker 2 (33:22):
It's definitely both of our biggest passions and so I
feel really lucky that we'reable to continue, you know,
pursuing this passion andspending time with this passion
with a child, and I do think,like I mean I mentioned, that a
lot of the types of activitieswe're doing are not necessarily
child centered right now, but asshe grows older, like, they
(33:44):
might start to become more childfocused, and so I think that
our travels have started tochange and they probably and
like will definitely continue tochange as she gets older and as
she starts to develop her owninterest.
So, yeah, it's something that'sgoing to be constantly evolving
, which is kind of cool.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Yeah, and it is amazing, the career I don't even
I hate calling it a career thatboth of us are kind of travel
bloggers, which is kind of likea dream come true, and that you
guys can actually be with herall the time, where so many
parents, I feel like, are justalways at work.
It's, you know, something theyhave to do, but we're very lucky
that we created these onlinebusinesses that allow you guys
to spend so much time with her.
You know, it's just so cool.
(34:26):
Yeah, that's amazing.
Yeah, so awesome.
So, yeah, tell me a little bitabout I know you guys have I
want to do to mention some ofthe resources you have on your
website for this.
There's so much you puttogether for people and I don't
have a child, but I think it'sso fun to read your stuff.
So what do you have on therefor people to go look at?
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Yeah, well, we you know we do have a somewhat new
section of our website that isabout family travel.
So Jennifer has been to now isit 13 countries, so we have a
lot of, and she's also traveledquite a bit around the US to, I
think, 13 or 14 states.
So we have quite a bit ofresources for just travel in
(35:09):
general with a child, as well ascamper van travel, so kind of
like both facets.
And we have.
We have a couple of freeresources that are like our
favorite travel, favorite babytravel gear, just general travel
, and then also favorite gearfor van life with a child,
(35:30):
because they are kind ofdifferent.
There's certain items that wehave in our van that we would
never fly with and, vice versa,things that we pack along on
international trips that wewouldn't ever put in our van.
So those two resources aretotally free.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Yeah, and then, as for just van life in general, we
have tons of resources on ourwebsite that are completely free
for people to browse and lookat, from building a van, from
actual living the van life, toroad trips around the United
States and around the world.
And so, for anybody who wasinterested in building their own
(36:06):
van, we have this resourcecalled what we call van life
jumpstart, which is like apacket of it's six different
resources in one.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
So there's all sorts of stuff, for there's a van
build specs sheet, there's alayout planner, there's a list
of remote jobs that you can dofrom a van like a budget tracker
.
Yeah, van life cookbook, so allsorts of resources again
totally free, six in one kind ofkind of thing, that's so cool.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Yeah, that's it.
Yeah, you have fantasticresources, and I should mention
your course about building out avan, because a lot of people
that you know listen to thispodcast on my email lists, are
curious about van building andyou also have a course on that.
So just briefly, like, justtell people what that is.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Yeah, so we created van conversion Academy, which
walks through basically all thesteps in order to take an empty
van, a shell of a van, to a homeon wheels, and so it's video
tutorials, written instructionsand basically the quickest way
to get your van from zero to 100and on the road.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
Yeah, like we've.
We've done all the work for you.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
We've spent hours behind YouTube trying to figure
out what the best way is, butthis is the resource that just
lays it out right, right infront of you takes out all the
gas work, and are people likereaching out to you guys with
the kids traveling in vans, nowthat you're posting more content
, creating content around this,are you hearing from people that
are taking the leap and doingit?
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Yeah, that's like one of our very favorite things
about what we do is justconnecting with people who are
on similar journeys, and I thinkI mean for us as well.
It's.
It was really inspiring to seeother families with children
that were still doing camper,van stuff or international
travel, and so I think justbeing able to see someone else
(37:59):
that's in a similar stagecontinuing to do those things
and doing it with the kids, andso connecting with children is
is really inspiring, and soconnecting with people who are,
you know, thinking about havinga family, or who have a family
and want to take a big leap, islike the best part of our job.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Yeah, really reaching people and helping people,
that's so cool and provide theinspiration and resources for
people that try it on their own.
So hopefully more people willdo that.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
And likewise with you , chris, and like you, provide a
lot of resources andinspiration as well.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
So it is fun, it's the best part, like, yeah, like
you guys just interacting withthe people, like you know,
emailing people and talking onsocial media is really exciting,
like that's why we do what wedo is helping people.
So, yeah, cool.
So let's see, is there anythingelse that you guys want to tell
people about?
You know, van life with a baby.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
I will say that this morning we filmed a tour of our
van.
It's funny because this is ourthird van that we've built and
we've had tours for our othertwo vans, and last year we
filmed an entire tour of thisvan.
We took a whole day touring itand just like never publish it
on YouTube, and so we decidedwe're like okay, we just need to
(39:13):
re film this.
So this morning we filmed it,and so if you're curious about
what our setup looks like, aboutwhat Juniper's bed looks like
because I know it's hard to hearit on a podcast and like really
visualize what this bedactually looks like Be sure to
check out that video, becausethat should be live soon on
YouTube Awesome.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
I'll put all these links, of course, down below in
the show notes, people can findall your stuff and, besides your
Canada trip, what is next inthe docket for you guys?
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Yeah, so we've got this Canada trip.
It's actually our 10 yearanniversary and we went to Banff
and Jasper for our honeymoonback in 2013, and this will be
our first time back there.
It'll be fun to bring Juniperthere too, yeah and so after
that we are in October we havepermits excuse me, to hike, have
a soup by in Arizona, and we'vehad those permits since 2020.
(40:05):
They just have continued to getextended.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
And then in November, In November we're going to be
traveling to Japan for threeweeks, and then we're hopping
over to Thailand for a coupleweeks as well.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
That's so cool and I love watching your Instagram.
You know your stories, sohopefully everybody listening
can watch you on Instagram andI'll post that link as well.
It's so fun to see what youguys are up to.
It's giving me ideas of where Iwant to go, so thanks for
posting so much good content, soI appreciate that.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
Chris.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
Yeah, and it was great chatting with you guys
today.
People go over to your van tourand all your cool stuff on your
website so, yeah, thanks forcoming on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Yeah, thank you so much for having us, chris, and
it was a pleasure.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
Yeah, thank you so much Awesome.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Well, thanks so much for listening to this episode of
the Wayward Home Podcast.
If you listen on Apple Podcasts, it would really help me out if
you gave me a rating and review.
This helps more people find mypodcast and gets the word out.
I'll see you next time.
Have you ever thought it would just be impossible to
travel with a baby or a toddler,and especially in a camper van?
Well, I've been followingtravel bloggers Katie and Ben
from TwoWanderingSoulscom asthey've taken their baby all
over the world in multiplecamper vans, hotels and their
very own van, which theyspecifically built to
accommodate the newest member oftheir family.
In this episode of the WaywardHome Podcast, we'll also talk
(00:22):
about exactly how Katie and Benbuilt out their latest camper
van, how they got their babyused to life on the road, their
biggest tips about travelingwith kids and some handy gear
they can't live without.
Welcome to the Wayward HomePodcast all about van life, boat
life and nomadic living.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
We'll bring you tips, interviews and stories from the
road and on the water.
Now, here's your host.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Kristen Haynes.
Hey there, I'm Kristen Haynesat thewaywardhomecom and I spend
half the year in my camper vanand half on my sailboat in
Mexico.
I hope to inspire you to livenomatically too In this episode
of the Wayward Home Podcast.
I'm really excited to bechatting with Katie and Ben from
the travel blog Two WanderingSouls.
I've been following them foryears, even before their little
(01:02):
baby was born, and it's been soexciting seeing how they've
incorporated baby Juniper intotheir life of travel.
Not only have they traveledextensively with their baby in
their own camper van, she's alsobeen all over the world to 13
countries.
These guys have so many amazingtips and they truly are an
inspiration.
Let's get into it All right.
Thanks so much for joining meon the Wayward Home Podcast.
(01:23):
I'm super excited to talk toyou guys about van life with a
baby.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yeah, thanks for having us.
I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Yeah, I've been having so much fun watching all
your travels with your baby,everything from Europe to the
van life.
You guys have really beentraveling so much and it's such
an inspiration to me and, I'msure, to other parents who also
have babies and they'rewondering can I travel?
So many people are wonderingthat, and so you've proven that
yes, you can.
So I wanted to first.
(01:51):
I guess we should start at thebeginning with van life.
So tell me a little bit abouthow you guys started with van
life in the first place.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, so back in 2014 , early 2014, we quit our jobs,
our comfortable jobs Ben used tobe an engineer, I was in
graphic design and we quit ourjobs to Backpack in South
America, and this snowballedinto a bunch of different
adventures.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
We ended up teaching Teaching English for a year in
South Korea.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
And then eventually, after a few years, returning
back to the US and we worked fora season at a ski resort and it
was kind of one of those thingswhere we kept seeing what the
next adventure would be.
But at this point after the skiseason we were pretty much
broke, but still wanted to.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
We still wanted to travel around the United States,
and we found out the best wayto do that was in van life.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
And so things were a little different.
This was in 2017.
We got a van for $2,000, whichyou definitely couldn't do now.
I mean, it was like an old beatup Chevy G20.
So it wasn't like a nice van,but $2,000, we spent like.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
We spent like a week converting.
It Spent like maybe like $1,000.
Yeah, and so all in $3,000, wehad this budget build and Very
budget, like very, very basicyeah.
And we traveled the West Coastfor the whole entire summer and
it was the best summer of ourlives.
Yeah, it was so cool.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Absolutely fell in love with van life and knew that
that like wouldn't be our lastone.
And so a few years later, aftersome more international
adventures, came back to the USand had a little bit bigger
budget to work with more than$3,000.
And that time we built a vanthat was kind of our dream van.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Yeah, it was a pro master 2500 and.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Pro master 2500 and it was perfect, Like it had all.
We had all those years to thinkabout.
What would we change with ourfirst budget build?
And we made it happen in oursecond.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
But then we found out that we were expecting a baby
and this van was a short wheelbase and only barely had room
for the two of us, so definitelynot room for a third human.
And so we ended up selling thatvan and getting an extended pro
master.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
And so we built that out just this.
Well, was it 2020, the springof 2020?
Speaker 2 (04:27):
and.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
This last build, though, is 2022.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
What did I say?
Yeah, 2020.
So we built this Like that's along time ago.
We built this in the spring of2022 and With an infant, which
to anyone else out there, likeyou can totally build a van with
a small baby, but don't do iton a super tight timeline,
(04:50):
because we had a very tighttimeline to work with and it was
stressful.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Well, we got it done and we.
We've been traveling the van onand off ever since.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Yeah, it's so cool that you guys did that and
you've brought the baby on somany amazing adventures.
And I'm curious about, like,when you were deciding on
building this third van and youknew you'd have a baby in there,
what were some of the thingsyou had to think about that were
different than some of yourother builds?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Yeah.
So I mean, like for starters,she needs a place to sit,
obviously when we're on the road.
So we needed a bench seat wherewe could put her car seat, and
we ended up putting a two seaterbench seat in there, even
though it takes up more space.
But you know, in the future ifwe ever have another child, then
it means we don't have toreconfigure everything again.
(05:38):
So we have a two seat benchseat.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
And that also helps with us if she's having a tough
time when we're driving and oneof us can go back and sit with
her, and that really helps out.
Yeah, so that was obviously likea big thing to think about is
this bench seat, because thattakes up a lot of room and
definitely like was a big factorin figuring out our layout and
(06:02):
we had to certainly makecompromises because you know
that takes up quite a bit ofspace, yeah, but the bench seat
area kind of becomes Juniper'sown area, and now when we were
traveling the third winter, whenshe was really little, we
actually installed like kind ofa fold away crib against the
wall, and so she was able to, wewere able to make a crib and
(06:27):
she slept there throughout thenight and, yeah, that was really
nice.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Yeah.
So now that she's bigger though, when she was about a year old,
that crib started to kind oflike she started to kind of
outgrow the crib and so we thenby we I mean Ben created a kind
of like a toddler bed, and againit's utilizing the space where
we have the bench seat.
So again it's, like Ben said,kind of her area.
(06:51):
We have storage for all of herlike toys, clothes, her like
eating chair, her car seat andthen also her bed area all in
one space.
So that's kind of like the maincomponent of the design.
That was different.
We also decided in this buildto have an indoor bathroom and
(07:11):
shower, just so that we weremore comfortable, you know,
cleaning her off at night andthings like that.
And our previous van had likean outdoor shower, which would
be as wonderful with a child.
So interesting.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah, that's a really good idea Cause, like, our van
does not have any indoor youknow shower, bathroom or
anything, but I could see howthat could be amazing if you
have a very, you know, a baby inthere.
Like, how big of a differencedid that make for you guys?
Speaker 2 (07:38):
It's been really nice .
I mean, at this point she'sstill kind of too young to
actually shower by her.
You know, like standing up inthe shower.
We've been doing like sinkbaths with her, but in the
future I think it will be nicefor her to be able to rinse off
and then she's still in diapers.
But in the future, like we havea composting toilet, so that'll
(07:59):
be interesting, like figuringout how to potty train on the
composting toilet.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Very true, that's great, I'm so cute.
So you guys.
It started out as an emptycargo van, so you had to put the
bench seat in right, install it.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
We did.
Yeah, yeah, we installed.
I bought some brackets and theninstalled it to the frame of
the floor of the van and, yeah,it's locked in there.
It's not going anywhere, soit's pretty secure.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
That's cool.
And then you said somehow thather bed integrates with the
bench seat.
Describe how that works, yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
So the bench seat.
So basically I built like arecessed wall and the crib kind
of folds out from there, andthen there's a part that hangs
from the ceiling and then theother one sits on the bench seat
and it's nice and level andflat and very secure, like I
(08:57):
even, like, pushed myself up onthere and it's not going to move
.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
So that's the crib.
That was for when she wasyounger, but now that she's
older we have basically thebench seat is where she sleeps.
We have a mattress that goes ontop of the bench seat and a
little piece of wood that kindof inserts to extend the Like an
additional platform.
(09:20):
Yeah, so the bench seatactually turns into her toddler
bed.
So essentially we have two beds, two child beds, in our van
right now.
Yes, Cool.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
That's a really good use of space, though, to use the
bench seat for both the carseat and the bed.
I think that's amazing becauseI've seen some people who have
like the double beds in the backof the van for two bunks, like
two gigantic bunks, so thatsounds like it takes a lot of
space too.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Yes, I mean, I feel like that is a good solution for
older kids too.
I mean, this situation like thebed sleeping or the situation
that we have now for sleeping,is probably not going to last
when she is much older than fiveor six years old.
So I think there's it's justfun seeing different layouts for
different types of situationsand, like we've gone through
(10:11):
three very different layoutsourselves and then seeing people
that have older children orteenagers or whatever, you can
make a layout that suitswhatever you need really.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Right, that's the beauty of a van conversion over
like an RV or an even a van froma company.
That's just a set layout.
It's cool that you can justdesign your own.
You know, make that happen,yeah, yeah.
So tell me a little bit about,like, the first trip you took
with Juniper.
It sounds like she was veryyoung on that trip, right?
Sorry, did I?
Speaker 2 (10:49):
cut out, got it cut out there, let me do.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
I'll do that part again.
All right, so tell me about thefirst trip you guys had with
Juniper.
It sounds like she was Did itcut out again.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
No you're good right now.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Okay, cool, I'll try it one more time.
I don't know what's going on.
That's bizarre.
All right, I'll do the introagain.
Okay, so tell me a little moreabout your first trip with
Juniper.
It sounds like she was a prettysmall baby at the time, and
what was that like?
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Yeah, so well we've done.
When she was very young we didsome just small getaways and I
think that that was reallycrucial in like us feeling
comfortable doing bigger tripsinternationally and then in the
van, like we just did a coupleof weekends away and really kind
of got our bearings.
But our first major trip withher was to Mexico when she was
(11:42):
just about three months yeah.
So we got her a passport assoon as she was born, like just
weeks after.
But in terms of our first campervan trip with her.
We actually got our house readyfor renters.
We had renters move in and wemoved into our van, so they had
a six month lease and we were inour van for six months and so
(12:07):
during that time we drove fromBend, oregon, where we're based.
We drove to Minnesota, wherewe're both from and we have
family.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
And my brother was getting married in August, so
that was kind of like thehalfway point, and so from there
we hung out in Minnesota formaybe a month or so, and then we
headed out to New England areato see the fall foliage.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Before that, though, we took a little like two, three
week trip to Scotland, wherewe've rented a camper van, so we
had Juniper has now been inwhat three camper vans so ours,
plus a camper van rental inScotland and a camper van in
Ireland, so she's wellacquainted with that.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Yeah, you were saying that you thought it was
instrumental when, like she wasreally little, you started
bringing her into vans or atleast changing her environment,
taking her on trips, and do youthink that helped her adjust to
changes and sleeping indifferent places and stuff?
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Totally.
I think she's actually a veryadaptable.
That was the word.
I was looking for veryadaptable, little at this point.
She's a toddler, but littlehuman.
She does really well in allsorts of situations and that
doesn't mean that I mean everytime we get to a point where
we're like, wow, this is easyshe you know, clips it and
(13:30):
changes around and we have threeof us, yeah, and it's a work
out, but it eventually does workout.
Yeah, and I think, just like ingeneral, her foundation is being
pretty adaptable.
And then I think for us as well, we have set ourselves up to
parent in a way that is alsoable to work with changing
(13:50):
environments.
So like taking a flight at thispoint doesn't scare us too much
, because we've done it manytimes.
Or hopping into a camper van islike not really a big deal.
We know that we can, can workwith it.
So, yeah, kind of put ourselvesin situations so that now we
feel pretty comfortable withanything.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Oh, that's amazing.
And how does she do with, like,the driving part of it?
Has that ever been a challengefor you guys?
Speaker 2 (14:16):
Yeah, I mean, no one loves sitting in a seat for a
long time, so we do try our bestto limit our really long drives
and plan them for over her naptimes or during hours where
she's not going to want to berunning around.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Before we take frequent breaks to go find the
closest park and just kind ofrun around and get our wiggles
out.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yes exactly.
There are times, though, likeBen was saying, his brother got
married so we had to be back inMinnesota by a you know a hard
deadline.
So there are times where wehave longer drives, and so one
thing that we have kind of foundthat helps is we used to say
that we're we'd be parents thatwouldn't give our kid any screen
(14:58):
time, but it just happens thatit is very helpful in some
situations.
So, during times where wereally need to get a long drive
in, we have an iPad, that wherewe can download some like child
shows and use an exercise bandto strap it to the car seat, so
it kind of like is a DIY TV, andso that really helps.
(15:21):
Having snacks really helps,having her stuffed animals and
her toys so she overall doespretty well with long drives,
especially with all of thosetools.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
But that's also the best thing about being in a
camper van is, if you startdriving and something just
doesn't work out with her andshe's just not, she's getting a
little fussy.
We can always just pull over,take a break like, get the
wiggles out and then start upagain.
Like we were not in a car or,you know, like stuck on a flight
(15:54):
, like we can easily manage yourown time because we were in a
camper van, that's true?
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Yeah, that's very true.
That's what I always love about, you know, van life and camper
van is I have my food at my bed,I have like all these comforts
where you can just stop and liketake a break, and so I think it
does provide like a ton offlexibility both with and
without a baby, but I imagineeven more with a baby than maybe
even other types of travel.
Like how is it compared withyou guys, because you've done
both van life with her andyou've done some hotel kind of
(16:21):
travel with her?
Like how has that been?
Is it both been awesome orwhat's been some of those
differences?
Speaker 2 (16:27):
Yeah, I mean like they both have their perks right
.
But kind of like Ben was saying, with a van you have everything
you need at your disposal atall times.
So we, like with hotels,sometimes it's not set up how we
would want it necessarily or wedon't have all the things with
us.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
Yeah, like the crib that they have is not ideal for
her, whereas in the camper vanwe built everything for her, and
so it really works out in thecamper van.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yeah, we honestly like if we had to choose.
I mean, hotels are wonderful,especially in certain situations
, but if we had to choose, Ithink van life is almost easier.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Yeah, I mean it's more.
It is comfortable.
Yeah, comfortable at times.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Yeah, and I also think just having the same bed
you're sleeping in every day isreally comforting, especially
when you're traveling.
Because, I mean, I'm offeredI'm in a house right now with my
relatives and I'm alwaysoffered to sleep in the house
and I'm like no, I'll just stayin the van.
You know, it's my bed and it'sprobably the same for you guys
where, even if you are in ahotel, it's still hard to adjust
it first.
I think.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yeah, absolutely.
And like for her being a, youknow, a toddler, I think she
understands her space too.
So like she knows that thecamper van she, it's familiar to
her, so it feels comfortable toher as well.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Yeah, yeah.
And how has her sleeping been?
Like when you guys aretraveling, like does she kind of
melt into that pretty easily,the naps and the nighttimes and
everything.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
She does for the most part.
Like there's different phases,like I mean, before having
children we didn't know anythingabout what baby sleeping
patterns were like, but nowwe're like deep into this and
there's, you know, certainmonths where it's like a
regression that everyone knowsabout and so she certainly is a
normal child, and there aremonths where she doesn't sleep
(18:18):
quite as well as others, but forthe most part she does pretty
well in the van.
How we have things set up is wehave her bed and we have Like
curtains on either side so itblocks it off from our space,
which has been really nicebecause we can continue to hang
out at night after she goes tobed which she goes to bed at
(18:38):
like 7 30 and she's prettyconsistent with that and so we
can play games or Work, or wehave a projector so we can like
watch TV, watch movies and then,like we have the curtains that
block off the light from her andshe sleeps pretty well when she
if there are any times whereshe stirs in the middle of the
(19:00):
night, like sometimes, we'rejust bringing her into bed with
us and then she'll fall rightback asleep.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
So we do have like a queen-sized bed in the van.
So, yeah, yeah, pretty comfy.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
That's really cool.
You have the curtains.
I was wondering about that,about that, because kids go to
bed so early.
You want to have a place whereyou can hang out.
You don't have to be outsidefor like hours, you know trying
to be quiet, but you can beinside.
That's so cool.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
In the van too, so that if we're at a place with
campfire we could have thecamera pointed at her while
she's sleeping and we can justbe out Hanging out by the fire
and stuff and just watch her onthe little monitor.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Yeah, that's so cool.
I'm wondering.
You mentioned some of the gearyou had, but what are some of
the main like items you foundessential?
For other people listening andwant to try this like, what are
some things you'd recommend?
Speaker 2 (19:48):
Yeah, there's a Travel high chair.
It's like a super portable highchair.
I think the brand is calledHiccup Pop.
We actually have a Checklist ora packing list for all of our
favorite gear for a van lifewith a baby or toddler.
So if you're interested, besure to check it out.
It's free.
But that high chair has beenreally great because she can.
(20:12):
She can eat in the van or on apicnic table or on the ground,
whatever kind of situation we'rein.
It's been really great.
And we also have like a splashmat kind of thing, almost like a
tablecloth, and it goes.
But it packs up very small andit goes underneath the high
chair so that even in situationssometimes will be lazy and
(20:34):
we'll put her on top of our bedto eat but she won't make a mess
because we put that splash paddown.
So that's been clutch.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Yeah, I mean I would say like in the van is nice also
having a sound machine and likewe have like a little tap light
to Kind of see what's going onand stuff and for her just to
have a little bit of light.
They'll.
Those are really helpful forher to go to sleep and yeah, and
I mean they're kind of similarto things.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
I don't say you'd have at home.
But another thing that was justkind of fun and I think she's
getting a little too big for itnow, which is kind of sad.
But we had a swing that wouldattach into the, like, the cargo
van door.
It attached into the frame andit was just like a little swing
that when she was younger wewould put her in and she loved
(21:23):
it and kind of, on that note,just being able to spend time
outside I think is the biggest,like, the biggest way to occupy
her and keep her happy whenwe're in the van.
So whenever we park up at acampsite or wherever we are, we
like to Put our outdoor mat downso that she has a place, a safe
(21:45):
place to play, and then we alot of times put our awning out
as well just to make sure it'sshaded and, you know, protected
from the elements.
So having those things aren'tnecessarily like Kid gear, but
it definitely is helpful for vanlife with a baby.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Yeah, you guys mentioned the outside part and I
can imagine that would be amajor benefit, especially to her
, to be in nature.
So much like.
What do you think are some ofthe benefits to traveling with,
you know, babies, toddlers andchildren, even in like, in this
manner?
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah, well, first of all, it's also like we pack a
lot of toys and books and thingsthat she plays with at home,
but we find no matter where wego.
If we're outside, she's goingto choose literally anything
besides the toys, like.
Right now she's in a phasewhere she loves rocks, you know,
leaves twigs.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Anything becomes a toy to her and she hands me
every single stick that shepicks up, like literally, she
finds a stick like dead dad,dead dad, this is yours.
Yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Yeah, so it's.
It's kind of fun seeing that,though in there, like her
playing with the world aroundher, and I mean it sounds cliche
, but when we used to go on awalk or a hike, we would really
focus on getting to ourdestination and like Hike kind
of fast and not necessarily likeslow down, but now with her,
(23:07):
like we're constantly going soslow, looking at every little
flower, and I think that's notonly good for her to be
experiencing the world in thatway, but for us to remember that
you know the beauty a lot oftimes is in those small things,
and so I think it's it's Reallyfun to be able to see you again.
(23:27):
It sounds so cliche, but likeseeing the world, seeing her see
the world, watching her see theworld.
How do you say that?
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Seeing the world through her eyes.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
Yeah, yeah, I can see that it's a great way to slow
down, and you know, I readarticles I just read one
recently about how kids aren'toutside enough and that they're
on screens and that it'sactually affecting their Vision.
Some of them are becomingnearsighted because they're not
outside at all.
And it's just amazing to hearyou know how much Juniper is
outside and I'm sure that's likereally good for her.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
I mean, that's such a cool thing to be able to play
with nature around you and somany kids don't have that, and
so that's so neat we can tell,like where we can also tell on
days when she hasn't beenoutside enough it's she's not
tired enough to go to sleep.
So it's always very telling.
Like when we're in the campervan she sleeps like a log for
(24:18):
the most part because we've beenoutside exploring and she's
really being a child in a kid.
So yeah, it's cool.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
Oh, that's so fun to see and, yeah, cool.
So you did the first trip tothe New England, and where else
have you been with her sincethen?
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Yeah, so we spent a couple months out in New England
and then in Canada in the falland it was magical.
It was kind of like a dreamtrip that I had been like
planning in my head for yearsand we finally took it, which
was super cool.
And then since then we havebrought her to Hawaii and we
(25:01):
went to England to visit mybrother in Ireland.
In Ireland again, we rented acamper van, so another little
van adventure.
And then this summer we've beenmostly just exploring the
Pacific Northwest in the van andkind of hanging out in this
area.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
Yeah, it's been a really good summer for her.
We've taken a few van trips,and just not as extended as it
was last year, but definitely agood little taste of the van.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
But in two days we're actually headed out on a couple
week road trip into BritishColumbia and Alberta, so that'll
be really fun.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
That's going to be so beautiful seeing it in the fall
I guess it's almost fall, notquite fall, but that's still
going to be stunning.
Yeah, I think I'm wonderingwhat advice you guys have for
parents listening, because Ifeel like a lot of people don't
travel with their kids becausethey do have those fears, like
you were saying.
Like oh, what are they going tobe like on the plane?
Are they going to sleep?
Like there's so much anxiety.
But like what would you tellparents that are thinking about
(26:01):
this stuff?
Speaker 3 (26:09):
Yeah, I feel like we are very blessed with Juniper
and her adaptability for totravel and to like interact in
new environments and things likethat.
But I feel like we started thatout from square one with her is
to try out different likedifferent hikes or different
(26:30):
places, and just can likeconstantly.
We're traveling and doing newthings with her.
I think that helped out justfrom square one with her.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yeah, I think like what Ben was saying is you know,
every kid is different, so it'shard to give advice to children
as a whole.
But I think kind of along thosesame lines, to like starting
super small I think builds yourown confidence and it also kind
of teaches your child an innatesense of adaptability.
(27:01):
And like for us, our very firstouting with Juniper was
literally just to our favoritecoffee shop but it felt like a
big deal because we had neverbeen there with a baby and we
had never changed a diaper inpublic and things like that.
And from there we went to, wenton our first hike and after
that it got a little bigger likean overnight.
And so I think the like, the mybiggest piece of advice is to
(27:25):
start super small, likesomething that doesn't even
sound like an adventure oranything out of the ordinary,
like going to a coffee shop andfrom there building it up, I
think not only builds up yourconfidence but it, you know,
opens your child's eyes toplaces outside of the norm.
And then I think the otherpiece of advice I have is just
(27:49):
do it, like I I get nervoussometimes to being on a flight
for a long time, like at thispoint.
We've been on a lot and I knowthat at some point we'll be able
to calm her down or it won't beas bad as we're anticipating,
but almost all of the time, likethings go better than you think
they will.
Kids are really resilient andoftentimes I don't know Juniper
(28:12):
surprises us and it can bepretty fun.
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Like Juniper's quite curious about the world around
her and she's always looking atother people and trying to say
hi and just really, I don't know, I feel like it, it becomes a
lot easier than what's built upin her heads.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Yeah, yeah, so true, and I just had a question that I
lost.
I'm going to have to edit that.
I was like I'm going to ask youguys, um, oh, I wanted to ask
you guys, you've been alsobackpacking with her, which is
really interesting.
I think that's another fearpoint that people have is
backpacking with young children,and you did that, and what was
that?
Speaker 2 (28:49):
like yeah.
So again, like we, our firsttime, we started really small
with a hike that wasn't, youknow, one that we would
necessarily choose if it wasjust us, because it was really
easy and nothing, um, usuallylike, if it's just us, we'll
choose like a really intensehike, and we went pretty small
and that again gave us theconfidence to do a bigger hike.
(29:11):
But again, kind of like we weresaying before everything
becomes a toy or everythingbecomes, she's curious about it,
and so I think, um a lot of ourfears of like, how are we going
to entertain her or how are wegoing to feed her?
It really is just like you'reparenting just in a different
location and we fed her justlike we would at home.
(29:34):
We're just in a different place.
She played just like she wouldin a park, but we're just a
little more remote and wecertainly one thing that we did
when we um, one thing that webought when we knew that we
would be backpacking with achild, is we bought an SOS
device, um, which just makes usfeel a lot more comfortable.
We never had that one, it wasjust the two of us which we
probably should have.
(29:55):
Um, now we're like okay, ifwe're going to be bringing our
daughter into the wilderness.
Um, we just want to have thatfor for our own peace of mind
and in case anything goes wrong,we know that we have a way to
get help.
Um, we also took a wildernessfirst aid course, um, while I
was pregnant, so it just againmade us feel better.
(30:16):
Again, we're not going to likeknow how to save lives out in
the wilderness, but it made usfeel more comfortable and just
be a little more prepared andeverything.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Yeah, and one one item we bought for Juniper was
this like toddler baby sleepingbag and it's the cutest thing,
like she gets in there and she'sjust like I don't know.
It's so adorable yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
Oh, that's so cool.
I think it's great howadventurous you guys are with
her.
Um, have you felt like yourtravel style has changed at all,
or have you just been sort ofgoing at it like you did before,
cause you were traveling fulltime?
I know that was a change beforeJuniper even, but like, just in
your travel style, has thatchanged a lot or maintained the
same?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (31:00):
I mean, our travels have definitely changed in terms
of like the amount of thingsthat will fit into a day and
just knowing like we have to puther needs before ours.
So I used to have and I stilldo like a ton of FOMO.
So if I go to a place I want tosee all the things, do all the
(31:20):
stuff, and now I've just I'mtrying to become more
comfortable not doing everythingand knowing that I can't do
everything.
So I think that's kind of likethe biggest change.
Speaker 3 (31:32):
but like it.
Like if we're in a middle ofthe hike and all of a sudden it
starts downpouring, like we'rehalfway up the mountain, do we
keep going or do we turn back?
I mean, if it was just us twowe'd probably keep going and but
since we have baby with us,we're probably going to turn
back and we have multiple timesturned turned back because it
(31:52):
just didn't make sense to keepgoing.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
It's not fun for her.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
It doesn't, it's no longer really enjoyable for us,
and so, yeah, it just makes moresense to kind of turn around
that point.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
But I think one thing that we kind of have tried to
carry through is still doing thethings that interest us on our
trips and our travels.
So not necessarily at thispoint in Juniper's life going to
like amusement parks for kidsor kid restaurants like we're
typically still going to, likethe places that we would have
(32:27):
gone before.
We're just adapting a littlebit now that we have her with us
.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
And we've taken Juniper on like many tours.
Like in the past we've gone onmany food tours and Juniper's
joined us now and that's kind offun.
She like nipples on our foodand stuff, yeah, and so in that
aspect, like she hasn't reallychanged too much of that.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Yeah, it's amazing that you've been able to keep up
the travel and it's so fun tobring her and she's going to be
like this amazing kid with allthese experiences and all a huge
palette for all this world food, world cuisine is what you.
That's so amazing.
I just love it and obviouslyyou know travel is also part of
your you know career and yourremote income and stuff, and so
(33:12):
that's probably was importantfor you guys to keep that going,
even after a kid.
But you'd probably be travelinganyway even if you weren't a
travel blogger, right?
Speaker 2 (33:22):
It's definitely both of our biggest passions and so I
feel really lucky that we'reable to continue, you know,
pursuing this passion andspending time with this passion
with a child, and I do think,like I mean I mentioned, that a
lot of the types of activitieswe're doing are not necessarily
child centered right now, but asshe grows older, like, they
(33:44):
might start to become more childfocused, and so I think that
our travels have started tochange and they probably and
like will definitely continue tochange as she gets older and as
she starts to develop her owninterest.
So, yeah, it's something that'sgoing to be constantly evolving
, which is kind of cool.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Yeah, and it is amazing, the career I don't even
I hate calling it a career thatboth of us are kind of travel
bloggers, which is kind of likea dream come true, and that you
guys can actually be with herall the time, where so many
parents, I feel like, are justalways at work.
It's, you know, something theyhave to do, but we're very lucky
that we created these onlinebusinesses that allow you guys
to spend so much time with her.
You know, it's just so cool.
(34:26):
Yeah, that's amazing.
Yeah, so awesome.
So, yeah, tell me a little bitabout I know you guys have I
want to do to mention some ofthe resources you have on your
website for this.
There's so much you puttogether for people and I don't
have a child, but I think it'sso fun to read your stuff.
So what do you have on therefor people to go look at?
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Yeah, well, we you know we do have a somewhat new
section of our website that isabout family travel.
So Jennifer has been to now isit 13 countries, so we have a
lot of, and she's also traveledquite a bit around the US to, I
think, 13 or 14 states.
So we have quite a bit ofresources for just travel in
(35:09):
general with a child, as well ascamper van travel, so kind of
like both facets.
And we have.
We have a couple of freeresources that are like our
favorite travel, favorite babytravel gear, just general travel
, and then also favorite gearfor van life with a child,
(35:30):
because they are kind ofdifferent.
There's certain items that wehave in our van that we would
never fly with and, vice versa,things that we pack along on
international trips that wewouldn't ever put in our van.
So those two resources aretotally free.
Speaker 3 (35:45):
Yeah, and then, as for just van life in general, we
have tons of resources on ourwebsite that are completely free
for people to browse and lookat, from building a van, from
actual living the van life, toroad trips around the United
States and around the world.
And so, for anybody who wasinterested in building their own
(36:06):
van, we have this resourcecalled what we call van life
jumpstart, which is like apacket of it's six different
resources in one.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
So there's all sorts of stuff, for there's a van
build specs sheet, there's alayout planner, there's a list
of remote jobs that you can dofrom a van like a budget tracker
.
Yeah, van life cookbook, so allsorts of resources again
totally free, six in one kind ofkind of thing, that's so cool.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
Yeah, that's it.
Yeah, you have fantasticresources, and I should mention
your course about building out avan, because a lot of people
that you know listen to thispodcast on my email lists, are
curious about van building andyou also have a course on that.
So just briefly, like, justtell people what that is.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Yeah, so we created van conversion Academy, which
walks through basically all thesteps in order to take an empty
van, a shell of a van, to a homeon wheels, and so it's video
tutorials, written instructionsand basically the quickest way
to get your van from zero to 100and on the road.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
Yeah, like we've.
We've done all the work for you.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
We've spent hours behind YouTube trying to figure
out what the best way is, butthis is the resource that just
lays it out right, right infront of you takes out all the
gas work, and are people likereaching out to you guys with
the kids traveling in vans, nowthat you're posting more content
, creating content around this,are you hearing from people that
are taking the leap and doingit?
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Yeah, that's like one of our very favorite things
about what we do is justconnecting with people who are
on similar journeys, and I thinkI mean for us as well.
It's.
It was really inspiring to seeother families with children
that were still doing camper,van stuff or international
travel, and so I think justbeing able to see someone else
(37:59):
that's in a similar stagecontinuing to do those things
and doing it with the kids, andso connecting with children is
is really inspiring, and soconnecting with people who are,
you know, thinking about havinga family, or who have a family
and want to take a big leap, islike the best part of our job.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Yeah, really reaching people and helping people,
that's so cool and provide theinspiration and resources for
people that try it on their own.
So hopefully more people willdo that.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
And likewise with you , chris, and like you, provide a
lot of resources andinspiration as well.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
So it is fun, it's the best part, like, yeah, like
you guys just interacting withthe people, like you know,
emailing people and talking onsocial media is really exciting,
like that's why we do what wedo is helping people.
So, yeah, cool.
So let's see, is there anythingelse that you guys want to tell
people about?
You know, van life with a baby.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
I will say that this morning we filmed a tour of our
van.
It's funny because this is ourthird van that we've built and
we've had tours for our othertwo vans, and last year we
filmed an entire tour of thisvan.
We took a whole day touring itand just like never publish it
on YouTube, and so we decidedwe're like okay, we just need to
(39:13):
re film this.
So this morning we filmed it,and so if you're curious about
what our setup looks like, aboutwhat Juniper's bed looks like
because I know it's hard to hearit on a podcast and like really
visualize what this bedactually looks like Be sure to
check out that video, becausethat should be live soon on
YouTube Awesome.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
I'll put all these links, of course, down below in
the show notes, people can findall your stuff and, besides your
Canada trip, what is next inthe docket for you guys?
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Yeah, so we've got this Canada trip.
It's actually our 10 yearanniversary and we went to Banff
and Jasper for our honeymoonback in 2013, and this will be
our first time back there.
It'll be fun to bring Juniperthere too, yeah and so after
that we are in October we havepermits excuse me, to hike, have
a soup by in Arizona, and we'vehad those permits since 2020.
(40:05):
They just have continued to getextended.
Speaker 3 (40:09):
And then in November, In November we're going to be
traveling to Japan for threeweeks, and then we're hopping
over to Thailand for a coupleweeks as well.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
That's so cool and I love watching your Instagram.
You know your stories, sohopefully everybody listening
can watch you on Instagram andI'll post that link as well.
It's so fun to see what youguys are up to.
It's giving me ideas of where Iwant to go, so thanks for
posting so much good content, soI appreciate that.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
Chris.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
Yeah, and it was great chatting with you guys
today.
People go over to your van tourand all your cool stuff on your
website so, yeah, thanks forcoming on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Yeah, thank you so much for having us, chris, and
it was a pleasure.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
Yeah, thank you so much Awesome.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
Well, thanks so much for listening to this episode of
the Wayward Home Podcast.
If you listen on Apple Podcasts, it would really help me out if
you gave me a rating and review.
This helps more people find mypodcast and gets the word out.
I'll see you next time.
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