October 11, 2023 • 47 mins
What if you could ditch your 9-5 job, turn your passion into your career, and live life on the road? If you've ever wondered how to break into the world of photography to support your nomadic lifestlye, our guest, Quin Schrok, has you covered.
Listen to Quin's inspiring story from when he left his job as a corporate accountant to travel across North America in his 1999 Toyota Corolla while learning the craft, to becoming a sought-after professional photographer and vanlifer, capturing uniquely beautiful landscapes all over the world.
But it's not just about doing it for the 'gram - Quin sheds light on the business side of photography. We'll discuss the importance of developing a unique voice and style that sets you apart from the crowd. Quin shares his insights into the right equipment and post-production processes necessary for professional photography. Learn about various income streams in photography and how to connect with potential clients.. Whether you're an aspiring photographer or just curious about vanlife, this episode is an exciting journey you won't want to miss out on.
Follow Quin:
https://www.instagram.com/everchanginghorizon/?hl=en
http://www.everchanginghorizon.com
Connect with Kristin Hanes and The Wayward Home!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Vanlife and photography seem to go hand in
hand.
I mean, you'll want to take allthe photos of the beautiful
places you visit, but what ifyou could turn your hobby into a
money-making career?
Well, that's exactly whatVanlifer Quinn Schrock did, and
in this episode of the WaywardHome Podcast, we're talking all
about how to become aprofessional photographer to
fund your vanlife dreams.
Let's go.
(00:20):
Welcome to the Wayward HomePodcast.
All about vanlife, boatlife andnomadic living.
We'll bring you tips,interviews and stories from the
road and on the water.
Now here's your host, kristenHaynes.
Hey there, I'm Kristen Hayneswith TheWaywardHomecom, and I
spend half the year in my campervan and half on my sailboat in
Mexico.
I hope to inspire you to livenomadically too.
Well, turning your passion forphotography into a career while
(00:43):
living and traveling in a van isa great way to make money on
the road, and that's exactlywhat Vanlifer Quinn Schrock does
for a living.
This episode first appeared asa session for the Vanlife
Virtual Summit, which I hostedfor Project Vanlife.
Let's get into it.
Quinn Schrock is an adventurephotographer who's been featured
in publications like NationalGeographic, outdoor Magazine,
sunset Magazine and more.
(01:04):
So, quinn, thanks so much forjoining us in the Vanlife
Virtual Summit.
We're so excited you're here.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Happy to be here, happy to become a part of the
Vanlife, the Project, vanlifecommunity.
I've been following you guysfor so long so, yeah, it's good
to get involved.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Very cool.
So first of all, let's justtalk a little bit about your.
You know vanlife part of yourlifestyle and just what your
lifestyle looks like in generalas a professional photographer,
because I think you're livingthe dream that a lot of people
aspire for.
So first let's jump into that.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah, so with my career, I'm traveling probably
half the time, as in travelingaway from my vehicles.
So originally it was just theidea that I don't like paying
for rent that I'm not using forlike half the time.
So it was just kind of alogical like way to save money.
(01:53):
And then when I was home, I wastraveling to I don't know
Yosemite or just differentnational parks, and you know I
didn't want to be tied down tojust one location.
So vanlife for me was verypractical and it fit my career
as a photographer.
(02:15):
That being said, in thebeginning I didn't have enough
money to get a van.
So, you know, I started doingphotography or traveling full
time around 2014.
And all I could afford then wasa Corolla.
I had like a 2000 Corolla or1999 Toyota Corolla, and so I
(02:37):
would just see vans alongsidethe road and I pretty much
instantly knew that that waslike the end goal, not so much
like oh man, I'm going to go outand buy one right now, but oh,
I'm going to save up, hopefullyin a year or two, or it actually
took longer than that For methat I would be able to afford a
Sprinter van or something likethat.
But yeah.
(02:59):
So I mean I can go in depth, Ican.
I'm kind of given the overviewright now, but is there a
section?
that you want me to go in depthon there?
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Yeah, no, that's great that you.
I think it's important thatpeople know that you started in
a Corolla, because I started ina Prius and I'm in a Sprinter
now.
But it takes time to like moveup, and that's okay.
And I think people sometimesthink like, oh, I have to like
spend a ton of money on aSprinter immediately, which is
not true Like you and I startedin cars, so I just think that's
really cool for people to knowthat.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Yeah, both Toyota's.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah, both Toyota's, yeah, and so I'd love to hear
about, like now, what you'redoing.
It sounds like you split yourtime between the van and
international travel, so tell usjust a little bit about, like,
what your lifestyle looks like.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Yeah.
So, like I just got back fromsix weeks in Norway, I had three
different jobs there and Iguess two of them were
photography jobs like freelancephotography, not social media
related, and then one of themwas for a client that I work
with called Insta360, just did asponsored post for them.
(04:06):
So about half of my jobs yousee online on social media and
the other half probably youwould see on social media but
not on my personal page, andthis time of year when I got
started in photography, I kindof saw it as random, like oh man
(04:28):
, I won't get a job for like twomonths and then I'll have like
10 jobs in one month and overtime, because I've been doing
this full time since 2015,.
So what is that?
Eight years Over time, I'vebeen able to see that there's
somewhat of a trend.
Each year I have downtime, likefrom January to May, and then
(04:52):
May it starts picking up andsummer is my busy time.
Fall is my even busier time.
So summer and fall is like it'skind of like unlike the
opposite of a tax accountant,you know, like my slow time is
when taxes are happening andthen, like summer to fall, I'm
pretty much super busy.
So I was able to schedule thiscall with you guys in between
(05:14):
different trips that I'm doing,but and that how it relates to
van life is during my slow time,I'm pretty much full time in my
van and I actually like likeI'm in a sprinter too.
I like being in the van whenit's cold because it's easy to
heat but it's a little bitharder to cool.
(05:35):
Like right now I'm just in myparents house because I needed a
place that wasn't.
I wasn't gonna be sweating todeath in my van making this
video.
So I like doing van life in thewinter in general, and then
summer usually I'm abroad, doingthings like in Norway or
(05:55):
wherever, yeah, or backpackingup in the mountains in Pacific
Northwest or the Sierras orsomething like that.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
That sounds amazing.
That's that you are right aboutthe heat being difficult to
manage.
We were up near Seattle just toescape some of the heat waves
in Oregon, so I get it.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Yeah, I'm gonna head up that way soon, but now I'm in
Southern California.
I just haven't made themigration yet.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Totally yeah.
So let's talk about how you gotinto photography in the first
place.
What inspired you to take thison?
Speaker 2 (06:30):
It wasn't really like a conscious choice.
It was just more so like thecraze of smartphones.
I had a smartphone andInstagram started started
becoming popular, so I had likean iPhone for something like
that.
That was probably my firstcamera and I went to school in
(06:54):
Hawaii, so it was a combinationof having a phone that had
decent capabilities as a cameraand being in a beautiful place.
So you know, I was set up forsuccess in that way, because
everything looks good in Hawaii,like it's it's.
That's basically what made mestand out as a photographer,
(07:14):
being in a beautiful place.
Like I can't really take muchcredit for the beginning stages
and for that reason I think alot of people want to see Hawaii
Like.
A lot of people like the idea oflike I'm on this Instagram
thing and apparently I canfollow whoever I want.
Like I don't even need to knowthese people, because back in
the day, like with Facebook, itwas weird to like Facebook,
(07:39):
stalk somebody, like somebodythat you didn't know, right.
But Instagram kind of blew thedoors open to like following,
being like socially normal tofollow someone that you didn't
know, that you were just kind ofsomewhat interested in their
life or their work or whatever.
So people started to see Hawaiiand they're like why wouldn't I
want a little bit of Hawaii onmy newsfeed?
(08:00):
So they started following me.
In that way, I attribute a lotof my following to getting
started early and also being inHawaii at that time.
And then over time I started toget like better as a
photographer.
But in the beginning it's justkind of like documenting where I
(08:21):
was living and using what I had, which was, yeah, like the
iPhone 4 or something like that.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Cool and then.
So you started out with thephone and then eventually I'm
guessing you moved to a camera.
But how did you figure that?
What was your progression andhow did you hone your skill to
be where you are today, like totake classes, or what did you do
?
Speaker 2 (08:41):
So I hmm, a lot of the reason why I became a
photographer was just my lifesituation at the time when I was
in Hawaii, as I was mentioning,I was living in Hawaii, I was,
I was married and an accountant.
So I wasn't like I didn't havelike creative ambitions at all.
I was making decisions basedoff of financial, like stable
(09:05):
financial future, about to buy ahouse in the suburbs and, you
know, get a job at a big fouraccounting firm, whatever.
And one day I just woke up andmy wife at the time was gone,
ghosted me.
So I mean, that's a long story,I could go into that, but
(09:28):
that's not what this is about.
So what happened was that justopened up a massive whole of
free time for me.
Right, I had to like fill whatoriginally was my accounting and
just my married life.
All of a sudden I had all thisextra free time.
And that's kind of when Istarted wasn't necessarily I
(09:50):
started focusing on photography,but I started focusing on
exploring, hiking.
I got a good camping setup.
I started camping places anddoing things like that that were
they were just interesting tome and it was kind of in my mind
, it was the opposite of themarried life that I had, where I
had like full freedom, I coulddo whatever.
(10:11):
I was just kind of like cutloose and because I had the cell
phone, I started taking photosof these epic campsites on the
top of mountains in Hawaii andpeople were pretty into that.
So because of that, likebecause I started getting into
like outdoor stuff, like that, Iended up taking a job at
(10:33):
Anasazi.
It's like wilderness therapyprogram.
So I moved off of Hawaii toArizona and the reason to to do
this was to hone in mywilderness skills, my like
survival skills.
I just got really into likebeing self-reliant and being
able to handle myself outdoorsand things like that.
(10:56):
So when I moved out there toAnasazi I met a new friend her
name was Kate and I starteddoing little road trips with her
on her off time and Idistinctly remember going
because I was in Arizona.
We did a road trip up to Utah,up to Arches National Park, and
(11:18):
we were under double arched,really iconic place in Arches
National Park and I was therewith my cell phone looking up
and trying to take photos andlike, and she was over there
with her Canon camera and Iwould scoff at her, thinking
like my phone is just as good.
Like why do you need a separatecamera?
Like I don't, I don't get it,like whatever.
(11:38):
But I remember saying to hersomething like, oh man, I don't
know what it is, I just can'tcapture it.
Like I was shooting up to thesky and it was exposing for the
bright, so like it was hard tosee the arches.
It was like really dark and Ididn't have the ability to
change the settings or like honein what I actually was seeing.
Like I wanted to look like whatmy eyes were seeing, but it
(12:00):
wouldn't capture it.
And Kate's like, oh, I'mactually really liking these
photos, check them out.
And her photos looked exactlylike what I wanted, right, and
that was the first time that Irealized, like how do you get
that?
She's like, oh, I shoot onmanual.
Like what is that you know?
Like, so, like underneath thesedouble arches, I was kind of
getting like my first taste oftrue photography where, like you
(12:26):
can, you can change eachsetting, and she's like I change
like four settings for eachshot, depending on what I want
out of it, and like, okay, whatare these things?
And it sounded like at the timeit was like man, I see the, the
merit because the photo is good, but you have to, like in your
mind, calculate, like math,almost like calculate what the
right setting is, like I don'tknow.
(12:48):
It just seemed pretty crazy andI was a little bit turned off
because it was so muchinformation right at the time.
But you know that thatrelationship, that friendship,
continued through the summerwhen I was in Arizona and little
by little I startedunderstanding like what f-stop
was and shutter speed and allthe different things that come
(13:09):
with professional photography,and you know it was such a good
experience.
I was having so much fun, likefirst and foremost, exploring
and finding these new places,just like seeing them with my
own eyes because they're soamazing.
But then the cherry on top wasto be able to capture it
properly.
I started borrowing her cameramore often than using my phone
(13:32):
and I just started to see themerit and being able to control
specifically the output and howyour photos look in the end.
Because with the cell phoneit's really nice because, like
it does most of this stuff foryou and like maybe 80% of the
time it does a really good job.
But it is kind of nice also tofeel like you put a little bit
(13:53):
more of yourself into the imageby, like, choosing those
specific settings, you know,based off of how you want it to
end up.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
You know yeah, yeah, that's really interesting
because you know, some peopleare overwhelmed.
I think myself included.
I have.
I do know how to change themanual settings, but it can be
kind of difficult, so I oftenjust pull on my phone instead of
using my camera and I'm justwondering, like, what your
advice is to quickly maybe learnthose things and start applying
(14:21):
it to photography as anexperimentation, or what could
someone do to start doing this?
Speaker 2 (14:28):
I will say cell phones have gotten way better
too.
This is like.
This is like nine years ago.
Now it's 2014, so I still kindof I'm a pretty big advocate for
using your phone, especiallyfor like video, because video is
so popular now.
Phone doesn't or the at leastthe iPhone that I use.
(14:52):
I'm sure a lot of the otherSamsung's and stuff have great
capabilities too, especially forvideos like it has really good
stabilization and kind of like Idon't know.
I think things look better inon a phone than like when I
shoot video on my Sony camera.
Like I don't really like it.
It's kind of like jumpy, like Ineed to bust out a tripod.
(15:12):
I don't even want to carry atripod.
So I am an advocate especiallyfor phone videography.
I think it's easily the bestway to go for like 99% of things
out there.
But sorry, what was yourquestion?
How do you break into?
Speaker 1 (15:29):
the yeah.
Like, how do you start usingthese manual settings without
getting really overwhelmed byall the different settings?
Speaker 2 (15:37):
um, you know, for me, I had a crash course of like
using it every day.
We're talking like we wouldshoot sunset, or we would shoot
sunrise, midday sunset every day, and and we eventually were so
into those road trips, like onthe off weeks, that me and Kate
(15:59):
just took off for six months andwe drove up to Canada all
around the West Coast and intoMexico all the way down to
Panama.
So it turned into like I was soobsessed with that at the time
I think it's just what I neededat the time that we ended up
just camping next to the side ofthe car for six months straight
(16:20):
and taking photos every day,and at the time it was like
that's just like that's whatfelt right, and I was kind of
just like a sponge eating up allthis like new information on
how to capture things and moreso is just like really fun to
like.
At the time, I rememberthinking like this is my window
(16:43):
where I can, where I have enoughfree time to experience this
and do this, like who knows,maybe I'll be married again next
year, and like this is justlike the window to take
advantage of, like being youngand free and like you know, I
have a car that runs and it getsgood gas mileage, I wasn't
necessarily thinking like, oh, Iwish I had a Sprinter van.
(17:04):
It was just kind of like I havewhat I have, have a little bit
of money, and let's see how farthis money can last, you know.
And so for me it was like itwas a crash course in
photography, because it was justmy obsession at the time and I
(17:25):
know a lot of other people thatget into photography.
It's more so like just the sidehobby and it like kind of like
is like slow and slow progressover time.
But that's just wasn't myexperience.
It was just kind of like well,this is amazing, like this is
the only thing I'm going to dountil my money runs out and then
I'm going to get another job,and that's kind of how it was.
For the first like three or fouryears of my photography was
(17:48):
either like full time on theroad, shooting as much as I can,
or I would have to go back andget like a temporary summer job
or something like that.
I didn't go back to accountingbecause it just all of a sudden
was just not where I wanted tobe when I started, like road
tripping and camping and stuffis like I didn't want like that
stark contrast of like goingback cutting my hair, combing my
(18:14):
hair and like putting on like ashirt and tie and going into
account.
It would just feel too likestark and like depressing in my
mind.
So that's why I got like a joblike you know, learning how to
survive in the wilderness andstuff like that.
It felt like it was at leastsomething that like could
pertain to my photography andelevate my photography to have
(18:37):
those skills.
But yeah, so for someone that'strying to get into it, I would
just say the most importantthing is to find a subject
matter or something even outsideof photography, like find the
thing that you care about themost.
You know, like something thatyou're obsessed with.
(18:59):
Like some dudes I know are likereally into baseball or
something like that.
Like maybe you could get a zoomlens and you can go to the
games and shoot that, becauseit's something that you care
about and you care enough aboutit that you want to do it
justice.
So you're going to, you'regoing to really put in the time
and effort into creating thebest images possible, and for me
(19:19):
it was like it was like epiclandscapes in the Western United
States at the time, because Iwas born and raised in
California and I didn't go toYosemite until I was like 25,
you know, like it was just kindof like wow, I 25, I finally
found like my backyard and likethis is crazy, why didn't I not,
(19:39):
why did I not know of this?
When I was like 15 years old andI was, like you know, kind of
hating on where I grew upbecause I didn't really see the
beauty of it.
And now I see, like I need tospread the word you know what
I'm saying.
So like it was kind of likethis passion of mine.
It's like I finally foundsomething that I was really into
so I need to share it witheveryone else.
(20:00):
So that kind of pushed me intolike feeling the need to capture
it as best as possible.
And and it was also just thisfun challenge, like I just
became obsessed with like firstoff, finding cool new places,
and then the next challenge wasto like find the right angle to
to help it translate to a singleimage.
(20:23):
At the time, in the verybeginning, it was all
photography.
I wasn't really doing much video, so for people starting out now
it's, the landscapes changed abit and video at this point is
arguably more important thanphoto, but it's kind of the same
general concept, like whatvideo can you take that will
(20:44):
inspire others to go out and seethis for themselves?
You know how can you showcase itin the best light or show your
personality, like if you'rereally that stoked, like show
you interacting with it and howit makes you happier and it adds
to you know, your dailyhappiness or whatever.
(21:07):
Yeah, that's that's kind of theapproach that I would take is to
try to find a subject matterthat really gets you going and
that that will really push youto try to capture it in the best
way possible and that will makeyou.
It's the same concept of likeif you move to Mexico and nobody
speaks English, you're going tohave to figure out how to
(21:29):
express yourself.
You're going to have to learnhow to speak Spanish.
So, like if you put yourself inthis situation where it's like
almost like a dire need like man, I love this so much like I got
to figure out how tocommunicate this with, with
other people, that passion willtranslate, people will see it
and they'll want to follow along.
(21:49):
Or, if you're looking at fromthe client perspective, they'll
want to maybe pay you to get alittle bit of that passion on
their end to help them withwhatever they want selling a
product or showcasing a locationor whatever, whoever the client
is, you know.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah, and do you think that it's easier for
people, if they want to breakinto it to make money, to like
work on their social mediaprofile or work on actually
finding paying clients?
Like, what's route would yousuggest to someone?
Speaker 2 (22:24):
I focus on my craft and building my social profile.
I think that's probably whatmost people do, simply because
the few times that I've reachedout to clients it's been such a
different.
It's been a different situationwhere, like, if I reach out,
(22:47):
it's obvious that I need themoney.
I don't know how I put this.
Basically it puts them in thenegotiation chair.
So they didn't necessarilyreach out to me because they
liked my content, my photos.
So what happened was they saidthey agreed to me taking photos
(23:12):
of their product like 10 uniqueimages or so and we agreed to a
price.
And it turns out when Idelivered those 10 unique images
, they weren't necessarily whatthey were looking for.
So that particular job that I'mreferring to dragged on for
(23:33):
like six months because in theend hindsight, looking back on
it I reached out to them.
They weren't interested in myphotography.
I had to bend over backwards totry to meet their needs.
So I had to kind of bend myphotography ability to create
(23:54):
images that I wouldn't normallycreate right, and it turned out
to be way more work than whatthey paid.
It wasn't worth what they paidme, and so I think it does
really work, specifically to thecreator's benefit.
If the client is genuinelyinterested in your work and what
you've established yourself asbeing good at because then it
(24:19):
will kind of run smoother theyalready like what you're doing
it naturally integrates intoyour body of work.
So with that, if you're tryingto attract clients to reach out
to you, it's easier said thandone, so like I'm able to rely
(24:40):
on that and do it that waybecause I have a large following
.
So the first step is to gainthat following and that's the
tricky one.
I feel like that's whateveryone wants to know.
I think passion reallytranslates for sure.
So going back to findingsomething that you really care
(25:03):
about, as opposed to justjumping on bandwagons and kind
of recreating shots If you go toYosemite and you go create the
classic shots that have beenposted multiple times, just
trying to think about it from aclient's perspective, why would
(25:26):
they want to work with you ifyour body of work is pretty much
the same as everyone else's?
So, like every time you post onsocial media generally, you
have to really be able to standby that work as if it's your own
voice, your own unique take,and it's giving clients a reason
to work with you because you'rethe only one that's created
(25:50):
that it's a tough business forsure.
It's super competitive, aseveryone knows.
And I will also note, if you'rejust starting out with
photography, I just hated onrecreating images.
It's almost a necessary step inthe beginning If there's
(26:13):
someone that you really look upto and you hope to be like,
maybe save a few of the images,go out and recreate those, just
so you know how the processworks, so that the veil is kind
of pulled back and you see, okay, so he shot it at this time of
day because it looks better atthis time of day.
And why is this photo so good?
(26:35):
Oh, I guess like the road isleading into the view, right.
So like it's like this leadingline that draws the viewer in.
So you're trying to like thatrecreation process kind of has
to happen, but the quicker youdo that, understand the
overarching concepts of whatmakes the photo engaging and
good, then you can take thoseconcepts and apply them into new
(27:00):
and unique ways, right?
So it's kind of like thisstep-by-step process.
I don't know anyone who didn'tstart out like recreating in
like somewhat derivative ways,like where they were just kind
of like doing a shot-by-shot,like classic shots.
That's what I did, and myinspiration in the beginning was
(27:22):
Chris Burkard and I recreated abunch of his shots and then
from there, eventually, like afew years later, I was able to
branch out and try some newthings.
And now I think I'm like nineyears into my career.
I kind of see it as like offlimits If something has been
(27:44):
done before.
I try to avoid that, not always, but like I try to do something
different and think of myselfevery time I post as like
showcasing that this is myunique vision and for that
reason I'm able to command ahigher rate when I'm negotiating
(28:05):
, when a client reaches out,because they believe and I
believe that I have a uniquevoice, you know.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Yeah, it sounds like quite a process.
Like someone's not going to bea professional photographer
overnight.
They need to work on it andreally practice their craft for
a while and hone their voice andstyle.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Yeah, one of the biggest things I think a lot of
people stress about is they wantto be that unique and creative
voice like from their first post.
You know, and in all realitiesit's just a process and I think
in the beginning that recreationis a necessary step.
It's just how quickly you canget through that step and onto
(28:47):
the pushing the limits and doingmore unique things.
You know.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yeah, yeah.
And so if someone is kind of amore of a beginner and they want
to choose a camera to play withand practice with, do you have
any recommendations for that?
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Definitely your phone .
I mean, I just think the phoneis always going to be.
I mean, I'm nine years into itand I still use probably my
phone more often than myprofessional camera For stories
and reels and all these thingslike these videos.
It's still like my mostimportant piece of equipment for
(29:26):
for getting paid.
That being said, you know, at acertain point, if you're
getting photography offers,oftentimes they want like raw
images and and like highresolution images for them to
use for their own print oronline use or something like
that.
So you can't you I bought acamera off Of my first job offer
(29:51):
that required High resolutionimages.
You know, I bought a camera whenwhen it was obvious that like
it was just like I couldn't getaround it right.
So I don't necessarily thinkthat it's important to a
person's creativity to have likea really nice camera, but when
it comes to corporate clientsand things like that, sometimes
(30:12):
you just you need it.
So I I purchased a Sony I Can'teven remember I think it was a
7, 2 or something back in theday.
But right now I have a Sony a 7r 5, just as it's a high
resolution landscape photographycamera and, yeah, I would
(30:32):
recommend Sony but at the sametime, like Canon, nikon, fuji
film, it's all.
It's all really good and Idon't think, like you, choosing
Fuji film is gonna Keep you fromgetting clients.
I don't think clients everreally like think, oh, this
person is using this camera, soI'm gonna work with them.
They look at your, your body ofwork.
(30:55):
Really doesn't matter likewhich one you choose, but at a
certain point with professionalPhotography you're gonna need a
higher resolution camera thanyour phone.
Yeah but I will say I've gottenjobs Because I use my phone
occasionally, like I'll post animage that's an iPhone shop and
(31:17):
and Apple will reach out.
Or, like you know, there arecertain clients that really
appreciate cell phone Creation.
You know there's a lot ofaccessories Out there that I've
also done jobs with that arelike iPhone accessories.
So, like it's, you know, it'simportant to to use your phone
is also important to have a highresolution megapixel camera
(31:42):
when you start getting likefreelance photography work.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
For sure, for sure.
And is there like a favoriteLens that you have, or if
someone's just starting out andthey want to get one lens, like,
do you have something thatwould be recommendation for that
?
Speaker 2 (31:56):
I Do for what I do.
I'm a landscape photographer.
So I got a 16 to 35 f4 lensBack in like 2014 when I first
got that Sony camera, and Istill use that lens like
probably 75% of the time.
It's the same lens.
It's super beat up at thispoint but yeah, if you're into
(32:20):
landscape photography, I think16 to 35 is is kind of a core
lens to have, and then maybesecond to that I have a 24 to
240, which is a massive range.
So 24 is relatively wide and240 millimeter is is pretty
zoomed in.
So If I'm going out somewherethat potentially would have
(32:44):
wildlife, it's nice to have thatZoom lens capability.
You know, I could take a photoof a bear or whatever with that
240 millimeter.
So, depending on where I'm atin the world and the subject
matter that I'm hoping to shoot.
Um, those are my two mostcommon lenses.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Very good.
And then another thing I'mwondering is how important it is
for people to knowPost-production work and use
those types of programs that canbe overwhelming.
Do people need to know that?
Or you know, or or not in theprofessional world?
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Um, I'm an advocate for very little post-production.
I, I don't like it.
I don't like sitting in frontof the computer more than I need
to.
But there are people that havemade their whole career off of
having a specific editing style.
Um, you know, I've I've neverused presets, I've never even
(33:40):
opened photoshop.
Um, I exclusively use lightroom.
Um, and I, I my typical editingtime is probably one minute,
one to five minutes.
Um, you know, for a Photo thatI'm going to post on my feed, uh
, maybe I'll edit it for fiveminutes.
(34:00):
Um, so, yeah, I, I don't spendmuch time in the post-processing
.
Um, I know it's a way to to setyourself apart if you want to
have a signature.
Look, it's almost likesometimes I go to people's feed
and it looks like they're insome alternate reality because,
um, you know, it's darker thannormal or like the yellows are
(34:23):
turned orange.
It's like, wow, this is likeI've been there, it, it looks
kind of like an alternate, likeuh, twist on reality and, um,
you know, that's uh, it's adifferent way to go about it.
Um, but my opinion is, I don'tever want to send somebody to a
specific place, like the GrandCanyon or something, and they
(34:46):
get there and they think, oh, itdoesn't actually look like that
.
You know, because, because I doknow that, like, occasionally
people have gone like beeninspired to go see a certain
view because of my work, so itjust doesn't really sit right
with me.
I'm trying to edit it as closeto what it looks like in real
life as possible, um, but at thesame time I do spend a lot of
(35:10):
time in the front end, likeyou're asking about
post-processing.
That's back-end work.
I spent a lot of time on thefront end Going to the location.
Maybe I show up at 3 pm and forsome reason the lighting is
kind of off.
It's not what I like, um.
So I have an app on my phonecalled photo pills that can
predict where the sun will be atcertain times.
(35:31):
So maybe I get there and thesun's behind me, but I want it
to be in front of me because Ilike to shoot, um, into the sun
more than away from the sun.
So I'll figure out when thebest time of day is where the
sun is in the in the frame, inthe frame, and I'll come back
then and and just you know, soI'll kind of put in the time and
work before the photo, and thatdoes a lot of the editing for
(35:55):
me, if, if the natural light isgood, you know.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Yeah, yeah, that's great advice.
That makes a lot of sense.
So, yeah, I'm wondering if youcan just um tell us, if just the
major ways Um a professionalphotographer makes money, just
like some of the what you'veseen out there that people can
expect to decide um, I make mymoney two ways.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
So I I do sponsored posts occasionally on on my
instagram feed and thenoftentimes A client will find me
through my instagram feed butwill hire me, not necessarily to
post Back onto my feed, but tojust come out and take photos,
uh, for them and so that theycould use those photos to post
(36:40):
on their feed or on theirwebsite or print out or whatever
.
So, like, it is somewhatfunneled through my instagram
channel, but about half the timeit doesn't end up on that
channel.
Um, and I generally can chargea lot more when I'm marketing
and putting it on my instagramfeed.
(37:01):
Um, but that's also somewhatstressful, like, because
sometimes, like the, theproduct's not Super on brand for
me, so I don't really want toendorse it on my page, but I'm
happy to To take photos of thatthat product and have them use
it.
You know what I'm saying.
Like I'm not, I don't have acrazy high standard of things
(37:25):
that I take photos of, but I dohave A high standard of what I
put on my instagram feed.
You know what I'm saying.
So, um, sometimes I'llnegotiate, sometimes they'll
want me to post it on my feedand I'll negotiate out of that
and say no, but I can takephotos for you.
Um, so those are two ways thatthat probably the two most
common ways that I make money.
(37:46):
Um, and occasionally I'll I'llactually make money on my van
builds.
You know, I'll uh spend sometime like, especially during the
pandemic, I spent more timebuilding my vans than Traveling
the world because I couldn'ttravel the world, so that was a
source of income For that Uhsection where I just wasn't
(38:06):
working as much as aphotographer.
Uh, those are my three streamsof revenue, but in terms of uh
Other photographers, how theymake their money, um, a lot, of
a lot of photographers likelicense their photos.
Um, like, after the fact, if youhave a really, really good
photo of like the grand t-tonsor something, um, maybe some
(38:30):
random corporation like a citybank or something like that, or
American Express is trying tolike get a new image for
whatever their marketing, andthey'll reach out and you can
license an image for like athousand bucks or, you know, if
it's a big campaign, for like$5,000 or something like that.
That's a tough one, though,because you're kind of just
(38:51):
waiting for them to reach out.
I guess maybe you could, youcould put in the legwork and
just reach out, send like massreach out emails, like a hundred
emails to big corporations.
I just don't really know howyou would get that contact
information.
Maybe some people have sneakyways to do it on like LinkedIn,
(39:13):
like finding different people,but I'm not familiar with how
that is like a sustainablebusiness practice.
One thing that people think ofwith photography like that they
could become like a staff writerfor a magazine or get like a
cover on a magazine or like justmagazines in general would be a
(39:35):
source of revenue.
And it's true like I've I'vehad multiple covers on like
outside magazine and Sunsetmagazine and visit USA and I had
a centerfold in Nat Geo.
These are like prestigiousthings that people want but they
don't pay well.
Like the going rate for a coveris 500 bucks, even for like big
(39:59):
name magazines.
Even sometimes big namemagazines pay less because it's
like they're paying you withlike the honor, like the, the
resume building thing you know.
So that's one thing that Iwould mention like kind of
debunking that like being aphotographer featured in a
magazine is not going to makeyou wealthy.
(40:23):
What is probably the mostlucrative is like working with
big corporations like carcompanies, airlines, things like
that.
And you know, like some peoplereally rely on cars because
they're they're car people.
You know, like, depending onwhat you post, if you're really
into cars, maybe maybe carcorporations would be like your
(40:46):
core clients, but they're notfor me.
I would rather work withairlines because I'm I'm more
travel based.
I don't just post photos of mycar very often.
So every time you're postingsomething, if you're posting
something of you in nature withclothes on, those are all
potential clients.
You know what I'm saying.
(41:07):
Like every everything you post,you got to kind of like drill
down into it and like where, ifthis is genuinely what I want to
be doing, where is thepotential client here?
You know it's it's one thinglike I can post a landscape shot
of Lake Tahoe With no people init and it's beautiful and it
(41:28):
might perform well for thealgorithm or whatever.
But the only real potentialclient there is like tourism.
You know there's not, likethere's not any clothing or it's
not like a car.
I guess maybe it could be likean airline, but like that's.
That's kind of a somewhat of aA stretch.
(41:52):
So you know, tourism doesn'ttend to pay as well as corporate
clients.
So cars pay well and, like Isaid, airlines and even maybe
electronic companies, thingslike that.
So, if you're trying to attractan electronic company like Sony,
maybe you start doing tutorialson how you created the shot or
(42:18):
what camera use and why.
Like, if you start puttingthings out and basically
assuming the role of an expertin your field, there's a good
chance that Sony eventually willreach out and want to work with
you.
Or, like Adobe Lightroom, youknow, if, if you're doing
(42:38):
tutorials on how to edit things,that could be a future client.
Or there's a lot of new editingsoftware coming out, especially
with AI right now, if you'retalking about editing and your
editing process, there's adecent amount of software
clients that could reach out.
So that's that's a good thingto think about.
(42:59):
When you start going into, whenyou start posting and going into
a certain industry.
Think to yourself how manypotential clients are there in
this industry?
You know, I think a lot ofpeople tend to focus on the
algorithm and what will performthe best.
Like, for instance, I have agood buddy, jacob Witzling.
(43:21):
He lives in the forest up inWashington and he's doing this
awesome, hilarious series wherehe creates weird axes.
Like he created like a helmetwith an axe on the top and he
starts chopping wood with thataxe and there is really goofy
and it performs really well forfor social engagement, but
(43:45):
there's not really such thing asa as a helmet axe that will
reach out and want to pay himfor that work, you know.
So it's kind of like lots oftimes is a trade off with, like
you trying to get like massengagement, or are you trying to
basically put out somethingthat could be marketed and be
(44:07):
seen as like very professional?
Speaker 1 (44:12):
Yeah, very cool.
Well, that was great with kindof running out of time a little
bit, but I'm wondering if youhave any last advice for people
with photography.
We've covered a lot, so, yes,anything else you wanted to add?
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Yeah, I mean for me, yeah, I would say Like a current
trend and likely this is goingto continue this way.
It's very hard to make a namefor yourself in photography,
videography, without showing whoyou are like, without showing
(44:49):
your personality, right like, ifyou think of anyone who's grown
to a sizable account.
It's pretty rare that they'relike this anonymous creator.
I think it's a pretty commonthing for photographers and I
was this way in the beginning tolike, want to just like have
their work Stand out like Idon't need to, nobody cares
(45:11):
about me, I just wanted aboutthe work.
You know what I'm saying, butit's, it's a really, really
tough way to go and likelyyou're going to burn yourself
out by trying to create the bestpossible work and nobody's
going to be able to relate to itbecause you're not showing the
person behind the camera.
It's, it's.
(45:32):
You know, I know a lot ofpeople that that go the exact
opposite way, that, like,generally speaking, they don't
focus on the work, they focus onthemselves, they focus on
putting their best face forward,about being relatable, and even
if they are like a strugglingphotographer, that's, that's
(45:52):
relatable in and of itself,because you know most people out
there are strugglingphotographers and trying to
figure themselves out.
So I would say, if, if you knowyou're trying to crack into the
social media space, photographyspace, it's very important to
show who you are, to documentthe process and even struggles
(46:14):
that you're having, just to berelatable people.
People like seeing that stuff.
So that's, that's a big, biginfluence on success or no
success if you're willing toshow yourself and to express
your personality in your work inthat way.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
Awesome.
Well, thank you so much forsharing all these tips and you
know, as always, people can golook at your Instagram ever
changing horizon, correct andcheck out your work.
It's just phenomenal to look atthose pictures and so, yeah,
thank you so much for sharingyour story and all this advice
for people.
It's really appreciated.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Yeah, thanks for the call, kristen.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the
Wayward Home Podcast.
Come on over and follow myadventures on Instagram and if
you have any burning van lifequestions, send me a DM.
You'll find me over there atthe Wayward Home.
I hope to see you there andthanks so much for listening to
this episode of the Wayward HomePodcast.
Vanlife and photography seem to go hand in
hand.
I mean, you'll want to take allthe photos of the beautiful
places you visit, but what ifyou could turn your hobby into a
money-making career?
Well, that's exactly whatVanlifer Quinn Schrock did, and
in this episode of the WaywardHome Podcast, we're talking all
about how to become aprofessional photographer to
fund your vanlife dreams.
Let's go.
(00:20):
Welcome to the Wayward HomePodcast.
All about vanlife, boatlife andnomadic living.
We'll bring you tips,interviews and stories from the
road and on the water.
Now here's your host, kristenHaynes.
Hey there, I'm Kristen Hayneswith TheWaywardHomecom, and I
spend half the year in my campervan and half on my sailboat in
Mexico.
I hope to inspire you to livenomadically too.
Well, turning your passion forphotography into a career while
(00:43):
living and traveling in a van isa great way to make money on
the road, and that's exactlywhat Vanlifer Quinn Schrock does
for a living.
This episode first appeared asa session for the Vanlife
Virtual Summit, which I hostedfor Project Vanlife.
Let's get into it.
Quinn Schrock is an adventurephotographer who's been featured
in publications like NationalGeographic, outdoor Magazine,
sunset Magazine and more.
(01:04):
So, quinn, thanks so much forjoining us in the Vanlife
Virtual Summit.
We're so excited you're here.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Happy to be here, happy to become a part of the
Vanlife, the Project, vanlifecommunity.
I've been following you guysfor so long so, yeah, it's good
to get involved.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Very cool.
So first of all, let's justtalk a little bit about your.
You know vanlife part of yourlifestyle and just what your
lifestyle looks like in generalas a professional photographer,
because I think you're livingthe dream that a lot of people
aspire for.
So first let's jump into that.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah, so with my career, I'm traveling probably
half the time, as in travelingaway from my vehicles.
So originally it was just theidea that I don't like paying
for rent that I'm not using forlike half the time.
So it was just kind of alogical like way to save money.
(01:53):
And then when I was home, I wastraveling to I don't know
Yosemite or just differentnational parks, and you know I
didn't want to be tied down tojust one location.
So vanlife for me was verypractical and it fit my career
as a photographer.
(02:15):
That being said, in thebeginning I didn't have enough
money to get a van.
So, you know, I started doingphotography or traveling full
time around 2014.
And all I could afford then wasa Corolla.
I had like a 2000 Corolla or1999 Toyota Corolla, and so I
(02:37):
would just see vans alongsidethe road and I pretty much
instantly knew that that waslike the end goal, not so much
like oh man, I'm going to go outand buy one right now, but oh,
I'm going to save up, hopefullyin a year or two, or it actually
took longer than that For methat I would be able to afford a
Sprinter van or something likethat.
But yeah.
(02:59):
So I mean I can go in depth, Ican.
I'm kind of given the overviewright now, but is there a
section?
that you want me to go in depthon there?
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Yeah, no, that's great that you.
I think it's important thatpeople know that you started in
a Corolla, because I started ina Prius and I'm in a Sprinter
now.
But it takes time to like moveup, and that's okay.
And I think people sometimesthink like, oh, I have to like
spend a ton of money on aSprinter immediately, which is
not true Like you and I startedin cars, so I just think that's
really cool for people to knowthat.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Yeah, both Toyota's.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yeah, both Toyota's, yeah, and so I'd love to hear
about, like now, what you'redoing.
It sounds like you split yourtime between the van and
international travel, so tell usjust a little bit about, like,
what your lifestyle looks like.
Speaker 2 (03:44):
Yeah.
So, like I just got back fromsix weeks in Norway, I had three
different jobs there and Iguess two of them were
photography jobs like freelancephotography, not social media
related, and then one of themwas for a client that I work
with called Insta360, just did asponsored post for them.
(04:06):
So about half of my jobs yousee online on social media and
the other half probably youwould see on social media but
not on my personal page, andthis time of year when I got
started in photography, I kindof saw it as random, like oh man
(04:28):
, I won't get a job for like twomonths and then I'll have like
10 jobs in one month and overtime, because I've been doing
this full time since 2015,.
So what is that?
Eight years Over time, I'vebeen able to see that there's
somewhat of a trend.
Each year I have downtime, likefrom January to May, and then
(04:52):
May it starts picking up andsummer is my busy time.
Fall is my even busier time.
So summer and fall is like it'skind of like unlike the
opposite of a tax accountant,you know, like my slow time is
when taxes are happening andthen, like summer to fall, I'm
pretty much super busy.
So I was able to schedule thiscall with you guys in between
(05:14):
different trips that I'm doing,but and that how it relates to
van life is during my slow time,I'm pretty much full time in my
van and I actually like likeI'm in a sprinter too.
I like being in the van whenit's cold because it's easy to
heat but it's a little bitharder to cool.
(05:35):
Like right now I'm just in myparents house because I needed a
place that wasn't.
I wasn't gonna be sweating todeath in my van making this
video.
So I like doing van life in thewinter in general, and then
summer usually I'm abroad, doingthings like in Norway or
(05:55):
wherever, yeah, or backpackingup in the mountains in Pacific
Northwest or the Sierras orsomething like that.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
That sounds amazing.
That's that you are right aboutthe heat being difficult to
manage.
We were up near Seattle just toescape some of the heat waves
in Oregon, so I get it.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Yeah, I'm gonna head up that way soon, but now I'm in
Southern California.
I just haven't made themigration yet.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Totally yeah.
So let's talk about how you gotinto photography in the first
place.
What inspired you to take thison?
Speaker 2 (06:30):
It wasn't really like a conscious choice.
It was just more so like thecraze of smartphones.
I had a smartphone andInstagram started started
becoming popular, so I had likean iPhone for something like
that.
That was probably my firstcamera and I went to school in
(06:54):
Hawaii, so it was a combinationof having a phone that had
decent capabilities as a cameraand being in a beautiful place.
So you know, I was set up forsuccess in that way, because
everything looks good in Hawaii,like it's it's.
That's basically what made mestand out as a photographer,
(07:14):
being in a beautiful place.
Like I can't really take muchcredit for the beginning stages
and for that reason I think alot of people want to see Hawaii
Like.
A lot of people like the idea oflike I'm on this Instagram
thing and apparently I canfollow whoever I want.
Like I don't even need to knowthese people, because back in
the day, like with Facebook, itwas weird to like Facebook,
(07:39):
stalk somebody, like somebodythat you didn't know, right.
But Instagram kind of blew thedoors open to like following,
being like socially normal tofollow someone that you didn't
know, that you were just kind ofsomewhat interested in their
life or their work or whatever.
So people started to see Hawaiiand they're like why wouldn't I
want a little bit of Hawaii onmy newsfeed?
(08:00):
So they started following me.
In that way, I attribute a lotof my following to getting
started early and also being inHawaii at that time.
And then over time I started toget like better as a
photographer.
But in the beginning it's justkind of like documenting where I
(08:21):
was living and using what I had, which was, yeah, like the
iPhone 4 or something like that.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Cool and then.
So you started out with thephone and then eventually I'm
guessing you moved to a camera.
But how did you figure that?
What was your progression andhow did you hone your skill to
be where you are today, like totake classes, or what did you do
?
Speaker 2 (08:41):
So I hmm, a lot of the reason why I became a
photographer was just my lifesituation at the time when I was
in Hawaii, as I was mentioning,I was living in Hawaii, I was,
I was married and an accountant.
So I wasn't like I didn't havelike creative ambitions at all.
I was making decisions basedoff of financial, like stable
(09:05):
financial future, about to buy ahouse in the suburbs and, you
know, get a job at a big fouraccounting firm, whatever.
And one day I just woke up andmy wife at the time was gone,
ghosted me.
So I mean, that's a long story,I could go into that, but
(09:28):
that's not what this is about.
So what happened was that justopened up a massive whole of
free time for me.
Right, I had to like fill whatoriginally was my accounting and
just my married life.
All of a sudden I had all thisextra free time.
And that's kind of when Istarted wasn't necessarily I
(09:50):
started focusing on photography,but I started focusing on
exploring, hiking.
I got a good camping setup.
I started camping places anddoing things like that that were
they were just interesting tome and it was kind of in my mind
, it was the opposite of themarried life that I had, where I
had like full freedom, I coulddo whatever.
(10:11):
I was just kind of like cutloose and because I had the cell
phone, I started taking photosof these epic campsites on the
top of mountains in Hawaii andpeople were pretty into that.
So because of that, likebecause I started getting into
like outdoor stuff, like that, Iended up taking a job at
(10:33):
Anasazi.
It's like wilderness therapyprogram.
So I moved off of Hawaii toArizona and the reason to to do
this was to hone in mywilderness skills, my like
survival skills.
I just got really into likebeing self-reliant and being
able to handle myself outdoorsand things like that.
(10:56):
So when I moved out there toAnasazi I met a new friend her
name was Kate and I starteddoing little road trips with her
on her off time and Idistinctly remember going
because I was in Arizona.
We did a road trip up to Utah,up to Arches National Park, and
(11:18):
we were under double arched,really iconic place in Arches
National Park and I was therewith my cell phone looking up
and trying to take photos andlike, and she was over there
with her Canon camera and Iwould scoff at her, thinking
like my phone is just as good.
Like why do you need a separatecamera?
Like I don't, I don't get it,like whatever.
(11:38):
But I remember saying to hersomething like, oh man, I don't
know what it is, I just can'tcapture it.
Like I was shooting up to thesky and it was exposing for the
bright, so like it was hard tosee the arches.
It was like really dark and Ididn't have the ability to
change the settings or like honein what I actually was seeing.
Like I wanted to look like whatmy eyes were seeing, but it
(12:00):
wouldn't capture it.
And Kate's like, oh, I'mactually really liking these
photos, check them out.
And her photos looked exactlylike what I wanted, right, and
that was the first time that Irealized, like how do you get
that?
She's like, oh, I shoot onmanual.
Like what is that you know?
Like, so, like underneath thesedouble arches, I was kind of
getting like my first taste oftrue photography where, like you
(12:26):
can, you can change eachsetting, and she's like I change
like four settings for eachshot, depending on what I want
out of it, and like, okay, whatare these things?
And it sounded like at the timeit was like man, I see the, the
merit because the photo is good, but you have to, like in your
mind, calculate, like math,almost like calculate what the
right setting is, like I don'tknow.
(12:48):
It just seemed pretty crazy andI was a little bit turned off
because it was so muchinformation right at the time.
But you know that thatrelationship, that friendship,
continued through the summerwhen I was in Arizona and little
by little I startedunderstanding like what f-stop
was and shutter speed and allthe different things that come
(13:09):
with professional photography,and you know it was such a good
experience.
I was having so much fun, likefirst and foremost, exploring
and finding these new places,just like seeing them with my
own eyes because they're soamazing.
But then the cherry on top wasto be able to capture it
properly.
I started borrowing her cameramore often than using my phone
(13:32):
and I just started to see themerit and being able to control
specifically the output and howyour photos look in the end.
Because with the cell phoneit's really nice because, like
it does most of this stuff foryou and like maybe 80% of the
time it does a really good job.
But it is kind of nice also tofeel like you put a little bit
(13:53):
more of yourself into the imageby, like, choosing those
specific settings, you know,based off of how you want it to
end up.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
You know yeah, yeah, that's really interesting
because you know, some peopleare overwhelmed.
I think myself included.
I have.
I do know how to change themanual settings, but it can be
kind of difficult, so I oftenjust pull on my phone instead of
using my camera and I'm justwondering, like, what your
advice is to quickly maybe learnthose things and start applying
(14:21):
it to photography as anexperimentation, or what could
someone do to start doing this?
Speaker 2 (14:28):
I will say cell phones have gotten way better
too.
This is like.
This is like nine years ago.
Now it's 2014, so I still kindof I'm a pretty big advocate for
using your phone, especiallyfor like video, because video is
so popular now.
Phone doesn't or the at leastthe iPhone that I use.
(14:52):
I'm sure a lot of the otherSamsung's and stuff have great
capabilities too, especially forvideos like it has really good
stabilization and kind of like Idon't know.
I think things look better inon a phone than like when I
shoot video on my Sony camera.
Like I don't really like it.
It's kind of like jumpy, like Ineed to bust out a tripod.
(15:12):
I don't even want to carry atripod.
So I am an advocate especiallyfor phone videography.
I think it's easily the bestway to go for like 99% of things
out there.
But sorry, what was yourquestion?
How do you break into?
Speaker 1 (15:29):
the yeah.
Like, how do you start usingthese manual settings without
getting really overwhelmed byall the different settings?
Speaker 2 (15:37):
um, you know, for me, I had a crash course of like
using it every day.
We're talking like we wouldshoot sunset, or we would shoot
sunrise, midday sunset every day, and and we eventually were so
into those road trips, like onthe off weeks, that me and Kate
(15:59):
just took off for six months andwe drove up to Canada all
around the West Coast and intoMexico all the way down to
Panama.
So it turned into like I was soobsessed with that at the time
I think it's just what I neededat the time that we ended up
just camping next to the side ofthe car for six months straight
(16:20):
and taking photos every day,and at the time it was like
that's just like that's whatfelt right, and I was kind of
just like a sponge eating up allthis like new information on
how to capture things and moreso is just like really fun to
like.
At the time, I rememberthinking like this is my window
(16:43):
where I can, where I have enoughfree time to experience this
and do this, like who knows,maybe I'll be married again next
year, and like this is justlike the window to take
advantage of, like being youngand free and like you know, I
have a car that runs and it getsgood gas mileage, I wasn't
necessarily thinking like, oh, Iwish I had a Sprinter van.
(17:04):
It was just kind of like I havewhat I have, have a little bit
of money, and let's see how farthis money can last, you know.
And so for me it was like itwas a crash course in
photography, because it was justmy obsession at the time and I
(17:25):
know a lot of other people thatget into photography.
It's more so like just the sidehobby and it like kind of like
is like slow and slow progressover time.
But that's just wasn't myexperience.
It was just kind of like well,this is amazing, like this is
the only thing I'm going to dountil my money runs out and then
I'm going to get another job,and that's kind of how it was.
For the first like three or fouryears of my photography was
(17:48):
either like full time on theroad, shooting as much as I can,
or I would have to go back andget like a temporary summer job
or something like that.
I didn't go back to accountingbecause it just all of a sudden
was just not where I wanted tobe when I started, like road
tripping and camping and stuffis like I didn't want like that
stark contrast of like goingback cutting my hair, combing my
(18:14):
hair and like putting on like ashirt and tie and going into
account.
It would just feel too likestark and like depressing in my
mind.
So that's why I got like a joblike you know, learning how to
survive in the wilderness andstuff like that.
It felt like it was at leastsomething that like could
pertain to my photography andelevate my photography to have
(18:37):
those skills.
But yeah, so for someone that'strying to get into it, I would
just say the most importantthing is to find a subject
matter or something even outsideof photography, like find the
thing that you care about themost.
You know, like something thatyou're obsessed with.
(18:59):
Like some dudes I know are likereally into baseball or
something like that.
Like maybe you could get a zoomlens and you can go to the
games and shoot that, becauseit's something that you care
about and you care enough aboutit that you want to do it
justice.
So you're going to, you'regoing to really put in the time
and effort into creating thebest images possible, and for me
(19:19):
it was like it was like epiclandscapes in the Western United
States at the time, because Iwas born and raised in
California and I didn't go toYosemite until I was like 25,
you know, like it was just kindof like wow, I 25, I finally
found like my backyard and likethis is crazy, why didn't I not,
(19:39):
why did I not know of this?
When I was like 15 years old andI was, like you know, kind of
hating on where I grew upbecause I didn't really see the
beauty of it.
And now I see, like I need tospread the word you know what
I'm saying.
So like it was kind of likethis passion of mine.
It's like I finally foundsomething that I was really into
so I need to share it witheveryone else.
(20:00):
So that kind of pushed me intolike feeling the need to capture
it as best as possible.
And and it was also just thisfun challenge, like I just
became obsessed with like firstoff, finding cool new places,
and then the next challenge wasto like find the right angle to
to help it translate to a singleimage.
(20:23):
At the time, in the verybeginning, it was all
photography.
I wasn't really doing much video, so for people starting out now
it's, the landscapes changed abit and video at this point is
arguably more important thanphoto, but it's kind of the same
general concept, like whatvideo can you take that will
(20:44):
inspire others to go out and seethis for themselves?
You know how can you showcase itin the best light or show your
personality, like if you'rereally that stoked, like show
you interacting with it and howit makes you happier and it adds
to you know, your dailyhappiness or whatever.
(21:07):
Yeah, that's that's kind of theapproach that I would take is to
try to find a subject matterthat really gets you going and
that that will really push youto try to capture it in the best
way possible and that will makeyou.
It's the same concept of likeif you move to Mexico and nobody
speaks English, you're going tohave to figure out how to
(21:29):
express yourself.
You're going to have to learnhow to speak Spanish.
So, like if you put yourself inthis situation where it's like
almost like a dire need like man, I love this so much like I got
to figure out how tocommunicate this with, with
other people, that passion willtranslate, people will see it
and they'll want to follow along.
(21:49):
Or, if you're looking at fromthe client perspective, they'll
want to maybe pay you to get alittle bit of that passion on
their end to help them withwhatever they want selling a
product or showcasing a locationor whatever, whoever the client
is, you know.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah, and do you think that it's easier for
people, if they want to breakinto it to make money, to like
work on their social mediaprofile or work on actually
finding paying clients?
Like, what's route would yousuggest to someone?
Speaker 2 (22:24):
I focus on my craft and building my social profile.
I think that's probably whatmost people do, simply because
the few times that I've reachedout to clients it's been such a
different.
It's been a different situationwhere, like, if I reach out,
(22:47):
it's obvious that I need themoney.
I don't know how I put this.
Basically it puts them in thenegotiation chair.
So they didn't necessarilyreach out to me because they
liked my content, my photos.
So what happened was they saidthey agreed to me taking photos
(23:12):
of their product like 10 uniqueimages or so and we agreed to a
price.
And it turns out when Idelivered those 10 unique images
, they weren't necessarily whatthey were looking for.
So that particular job that I'mreferring to dragged on for
(23:33):
like six months because in theend hindsight, looking back on
it I reached out to them.
They weren't interested in myphotography.
I had to bend over backwards totry to meet their needs.
So I had to kind of bend myphotography ability to create
(23:54):
images that I wouldn't normallycreate right, and it turned out
to be way more work than whatthey paid.
It wasn't worth what they paidme, and so I think it does
really work, specifically to thecreator's benefit.
If the client is genuinelyinterested in your work and what
you've established yourself asbeing good at because then it
(24:19):
will kind of run smoother theyalready like what you're doing
it naturally integrates intoyour body of work.
So with that, if you're tryingto attract clients to reach out
to you, it's easier said thandone, so like I'm able to rely
(24:40):
on that and do it that waybecause I have a large following
.
So the first step is to gainthat following and that's the
tricky one.
I feel like that's whateveryone wants to know.
I think passion reallytranslates for sure.
So going back to findingsomething that you really care
(25:03):
about, as opposed to justjumping on bandwagons and kind
of recreating shots If you go toYosemite and you go create the
classic shots that have beenposted multiple times, just
trying to think about it from aclient's perspective, why would
(25:26):
they want to work with you ifyour body of work is pretty much
the same as everyone else's?
So, like every time you post onsocial media generally, you
have to really be able to standby that work as if it's your own
voice, your own unique take,and it's giving clients a reason
to work with you because you'rethe only one that's created
(25:50):
that it's a tough business forsure.
It's super competitive, aseveryone knows.
And I will also note, if you'rejust starting out with
photography, I just hated onrecreating images.
It's almost a necessary step inthe beginning If there's
(26:13):
someone that you really look upto and you hope to be like,
maybe save a few of the images,go out and recreate those, just
so you know how the processworks, so that the veil is kind
of pulled back and you see, okay, so he shot it at this time of
day because it looks better atthis time of day.
And why is this photo so good?
(26:35):
Oh, I guess like the road isleading into the view, right.
So like it's like this leadingline that draws the viewer in.
So you're trying to like thatrecreation process kind of has
to happen, but the quicker youdo that, understand the
overarching concepts of whatmakes the photo engaging and
good, then you can take thoseconcepts and apply them into new
(27:00):
and unique ways, right?
So it's kind of like thisstep-by-step process.
I don't know anyone who didn'tstart out like recreating in
like somewhat derivative ways,like where they were just kind
of like doing a shot-by-shot,like classic shots.
That's what I did, and myinspiration in the beginning was
(27:22):
Chris Burkard and I recreated abunch of his shots and then
from there, eventually, like afew years later, I was able to
branch out and try some newthings.
And now I think I'm like nineyears into my career.
I kind of see it as like offlimits If something has been
(27:44):
done before.
I try to avoid that, not always, but like I try to do something
different and think of myselfevery time I post as like
showcasing that this is myunique vision and for that
reason I'm able to command ahigher rate when I'm negotiating
(28:05):
, when a client reaches out,because they believe and I
believe that I have a uniquevoice, you know.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Yeah, it sounds like quite a process.
Like someone's not going to bea professional photographer
overnight.
They need to work on it andreally practice their craft for
a while and hone their voice andstyle.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Yeah, one of the biggest things I think a lot of
people stress about is they wantto be that unique and creative
voice like from their first post.
You know, and in all realitiesit's just a process and I think
in the beginning that recreationis a necessary step.
It's just how quickly you canget through that step and onto
(28:47):
the pushing the limits and doingmore unique things.
You know.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yeah, yeah.
And so if someone is kind of amore of a beginner and they want
to choose a camera to play withand practice with, do you have
any recommendations for that?
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Definitely your phone .
I mean, I just think the phoneis always going to be.
I mean, I'm nine years into itand I still use probably my
phone more often than myprofessional camera For stories
and reels and all these thingslike these videos.
It's still like my mostimportant piece of equipment for
(29:26):
for getting paid.
That being said, you know, at acertain point, if you're
getting photography offers,oftentimes they want like raw
images and and like highresolution images for them to
use for their own print oronline use or something like
that.
So you can't you I bought acamera off Of my first job offer
(29:51):
that required High resolutionimages.
You know, I bought a camera whenwhen it was obvious that like
it was just like I couldn't getaround it right.
So I don't necessarily thinkthat it's important to a
person's creativity to have likea really nice camera, but when
it comes to corporate clientsand things like that, sometimes
(30:12):
you just you need it.
So I I purchased a Sony I Can'teven remember I think it was a
7, 2 or something back in theday.
But right now I have a Sony a 7r 5, just as it's a high
resolution landscape photographycamera and, yeah, I would
(30:32):
recommend Sony but at the sametime, like Canon, nikon, fuji
film, it's all.
It's all really good and Idon't think, like you, choosing
Fuji film is gonna Keep you fromgetting clients.
I don't think clients everreally like think, oh, this
person is using this camera, soI'm gonna work with them.
They look at your, your body ofwork.
(30:55):
Really doesn't matter likewhich one you choose, but at a
certain point with professionalPhotography you're gonna need a
higher resolution camera thanyour phone.
Yeah but I will say I've gottenjobs Because I use my phone
occasionally, like I'll post animage that's an iPhone shop and
(31:17):
and Apple will reach out.
Or, like you know, there arecertain clients that really
appreciate cell phone Creation.
You know there's a lot ofaccessories Out there that I've
also done jobs with that arelike iPhone accessories.
So, like it's, you know, it'simportant to to use your phone
is also important to have a highresolution megapixel camera
(31:42):
when you start getting likefreelance photography work.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
For sure, for sure.
And is there like a favoriteLens that you have, or if
someone's just starting out andthey want to get one lens, like,
do you have something thatwould be recommendation for that
?
Speaker 2 (31:56):
I Do for what I do.
I'm a landscape photographer.
So I got a 16 to 35 f4 lensBack in like 2014 when I first
got that Sony camera, and Istill use that lens like
probably 75% of the time.
It's the same lens.
It's super beat up at thispoint but yeah, if you're into
(32:20):
landscape photography, I think16 to 35 is is kind of a core
lens to have, and then maybesecond to that I have a 24 to
240, which is a massive range.
So 24 is relatively wide and240 millimeter is is pretty
zoomed in.
So If I'm going out somewherethat potentially would have
(32:44):
wildlife, it's nice to have thatZoom lens capability.
You know, I could take a photoof a bear or whatever with that
240 millimeter.
So, depending on where I'm atin the world and the subject
matter that I'm hoping to shoot.
Um, those are my two mostcommon lenses.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Very good.
And then another thing I'mwondering is how important it is
for people to knowPost-production work and use
those types of programs that canbe overwhelming.
Do people need to know that?
Or you know, or or not in theprofessional world?
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Um, I'm an advocate for very little post-production.
I, I don't like it.
I don't like sitting in frontof the computer more than I need
to.
But there are people that havemade their whole career off of
having a specific editing style.
Um, you know, I've I've neverused presets, I've never even
(33:40):
opened photoshop.
Um, I exclusively use lightroom.
Um, and I, I my typical editingtime is probably one minute,
one to five minutes.
Um, you know, for a Photo thatI'm going to post on my feed, uh
, maybe I'll edit it for fiveminutes.
(34:00):
Um, so, yeah, I, I don't spendmuch time in the post-processing
.
Um, I know it's a way to to setyourself apart if you want to
have a signature.
Look, it's almost likesometimes I go to people's feed
and it looks like they're insome alternate reality because,
um, you know, it's darker thannormal or like the yellows are
(34:23):
turned orange.
It's like, wow, this is likeI've been there, it, it looks
kind of like an alternate, likeuh, twist on reality and, um,
you know, that's uh, it's adifferent way to go about it.
Um, but my opinion is, I don'tever want to send somebody to a
specific place, like the GrandCanyon or something, and they
(34:46):
get there and they think, oh, itdoesn't actually look like that
.
You know, because, because I doknow that, like, occasionally
people have gone like beeninspired to go see a certain
view because of my work, so itjust doesn't really sit right
with me.
I'm trying to edit it as closeto what it looks like in real
life as possible, um, but at thesame time I do spend a lot of
(35:10):
time in the front end, likeyou're asking about
post-processing.
That's back-end work.
I spent a lot of time on thefront end Going to the location.
Maybe I show up at 3 pm and forsome reason the lighting is
kind of off.
It's not what I like, um.
So I have an app on my phonecalled photo pills that can
predict where the sun will be atcertain times.
(35:31):
So maybe I get there and thesun's behind me, but I want it
to be in front of me because Ilike to shoot, um, into the sun
more than away from the sun.
So I'll figure out when thebest time of day is where the
sun is in the in the frame, inthe frame, and I'll come back
then and and just you know, soI'll kind of put in the time and
work before the photo, and thatdoes a lot of the editing for
(35:55):
me, if, if the natural light isgood, you know.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Yeah, yeah, that's great advice.
That makes a lot of sense.
So, yeah, I'm wondering if youcan just um tell us, if just the
major ways Um a professionalphotographer makes money, just
like some of the what you'veseen out there that people can
expect to decide um, I make mymoney two ways.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
So I I do sponsored posts occasionally on on my
instagram feed and thenoftentimes A client will find me
through my instagram feed butwill hire me, not necessarily to
post Back onto my feed, but tojust come out and take photos,
uh, for them and so that theycould use those photos to post
(36:40):
on their feed or on theirwebsite or print out or whatever
.
So, like, it is somewhatfunneled through my instagram
channel, but about half the timeit doesn't end up on that
channel.
Um, and I generally can chargea lot more when I'm marketing
and putting it on my instagramfeed.
(37:01):
Um, but that's also somewhatstressful, like, because
sometimes, like the, theproduct's not Super on brand for
me, so I don't really want toendorse it on my page, but I'm
happy to To take photos of thatthat product and have them use
it.
You know what I'm saying.
Like I'm not, I don't have acrazy high standard of things
(37:25):
that I take photos of, but I dohave A high standard of what I
put on my instagram feed.
You know what I'm saying.
So, um, sometimes I'llnegotiate, sometimes they'll
want me to post it on my feedand I'll negotiate out of that
and say no, but I can takephotos for you.
Um, so those are two ways thatthat probably the two most
common ways that I make money.
(37:46):
Um, and occasionally I'll I'llactually make money on my van
builds.
You know, I'll uh spend sometime like, especially during the
pandemic, I spent more timebuilding my vans than Traveling
the world because I couldn'ttravel the world, so that was a
source of income For that Uhsection where I just wasn't
(38:06):
working as much as aphotographer.
Uh, those are my three streamsof revenue, but in terms of uh
Other photographers, how theymake their money, um, a lot, of
a lot of photographers likelicense their photos.
Um, like, after the fact, if youhave a really, really good
photo of like the grand t-tonsor something, um, maybe some
(38:30):
random corporation like a citybank or something like that, or
American Express is trying tolike get a new image for
whatever their marketing, andthey'll reach out and you can
license an image for like athousand bucks or, you know, if
it's a big campaign, for like$5,000 or something like that.
That's a tough one, though,because you're kind of just
(38:51):
waiting for them to reach out.
I guess maybe you could, youcould put in the legwork and
just reach out, send like massreach out emails, like a hundred
emails to big corporations.
I just don't really know howyou would get that contact
information.
Maybe some people have sneakyways to do it on like LinkedIn,
(39:13):
like finding different people,but I'm not familiar with how
that is like a sustainablebusiness practice.
One thing that people think ofwith photography like that they
could become like a staff writerfor a magazine or get like a
cover on a magazine or like justmagazines in general would be a
(39:35):
source of revenue.
And it's true like I've I'vehad multiple covers on like
outside magazine and Sunsetmagazine and visit USA and I had
a centerfold in Nat Geo.
These are like prestigiousthings that people want but they
don't pay well.
Like the going rate for a coveris 500 bucks, even for like big
(39:59):
name magazines.
Even sometimes big namemagazines pay less because it's
like they're paying you withlike the honor, like the, the
resume building thing you know.
So that's one thing that Iwould mention like kind of
debunking that like being aphotographer featured in a
magazine is not going to makeyou wealthy.
(40:23):
What is probably the mostlucrative is like working with
big corporations like carcompanies, airlines, things like
that.
And you know, like some peoplereally rely on cars because
they're they're car people.
You know, like, depending onwhat you post, if you're really
into cars, maybe maybe carcorporations would be like your
(40:46):
core clients, but they're notfor me.
I would rather work withairlines because I'm I'm more
travel based.
I don't just post photos of mycar very often.
So every time you're postingsomething, if you're posting
something of you in nature withclothes on, those are all
potential clients.
You know what I'm saying.
(41:07):
Like every everything you post,you got to kind of like drill
down into it and like where, ifthis is genuinely what I want to
be doing, where is thepotential client here?
You know it's it's one thinglike I can post a landscape shot
of Lake Tahoe With no people init and it's beautiful and it
(41:28):
might perform well for thealgorithm or whatever.
But the only real potentialclient there is like tourism.
You know there's not, likethere's not any clothing or it's
not like a car.
I guess maybe it could be likean airline, but like that's.
That's kind of a somewhat of aA stretch.
(41:52):
So you know, tourism doesn'ttend to pay as well as corporate
clients.
So cars pay well and, like Isaid, airlines and even maybe
electronic companies, thingslike that.
So, if you're trying to attractan electronic company like Sony,
maybe you start doing tutorialson how you created the shot or
(42:18):
what camera use and why.
Like, if you start puttingthings out and basically
assuming the role of an expertin your field, there's a good
chance that Sony eventually willreach out and want to work with
you.
Or, like Adobe Lightroom, youknow, if, if you're doing
(42:38):
tutorials on how to edit things,that could be a future client.
Or there's a lot of new editingsoftware coming out, especially
with AI right now, if you'retalking about editing and your
editing process, there's adecent amount of software
clients that could reach out.
So that's that's a good thingto think about.
(42:59):
When you start going into, whenyou start posting and going into
a certain industry.
Think to yourself how manypotential clients are there in
this industry?
You know, I think a lot ofpeople tend to focus on the
algorithm and what will performthe best.
Like, for instance, I have agood buddy, jacob Witzling.
(43:21):
He lives in the forest up inWashington and he's doing this
awesome, hilarious series wherehe creates weird axes.
Like he created like a helmetwith an axe on the top and he
starts chopping wood with thataxe and there is really goofy
and it performs really well forfor social engagement, but
(43:45):
there's not really such thing asa as a helmet axe that will
reach out and want to pay himfor that work, you know.
So it's kind of like lots oftimes is a trade off with, like
you trying to get like massengagement, or are you trying to
basically put out somethingthat could be marketed and be
(44:07):
seen as like very professional?
Speaker 1 (44:12):
Yeah, very cool.
Well, that was great with kindof running out of time a little
bit, but I'm wondering if youhave any last advice for people
with photography.
We've covered a lot, so, yes,anything else you wanted to add?
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Yeah, I mean for me, yeah, I would say Like a current
trend and likely this is goingto continue this way.
It's very hard to make a namefor yourself in photography,
videography, without showing whoyou are like, without showing
(44:49):
your personality, right like, ifyou think of anyone who's grown
to a sizable account.
It's pretty rare that they'relike this anonymous creator.
I think it's a pretty commonthing for photographers and I
was this way in the beginning tolike, want to just like have
their work Stand out like Idon't need to, nobody cares
(45:11):
about me, I just wanted aboutthe work.
You know what I'm saying, butit's, it's a really, really
tough way to go and likelyyou're going to burn yourself
out by trying to create the bestpossible work and nobody's
going to be able to relate to itbecause you're not showing the
person behind the camera.
It's, it's.
(45:32):
You know, I know a lot ofpeople that that go the exact
opposite way, that, like,generally speaking, they don't
focus on the work, they focus onthemselves, they focus on
putting their best face forward,about being relatable, and even
if they are like a strugglingphotographer, that's, that's
(45:52):
relatable in and of itself,because you know most people out
there are strugglingphotographers and trying to
figure themselves out.
So I would say, if, if you knowyou're trying to crack into the
social media space, photographyspace, it's very important to
show who you are, to documentthe process and even struggles
(46:14):
that you're having, just to berelatable people.
People like seeing that stuff.
So that's, that's a big, biginfluence on success or no
success if you're willing toshow yourself and to express
your personality in your work inthat way.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
Awesome.
Well, thank you so much forsharing all these tips and you
know, as always, people can golook at your Instagram ever
changing horizon, correct andcheck out your work.
It's just phenomenal to look atthose pictures and so, yeah,
thank you so much for sharingyour story and all this advice
for people.
It's really appreciated.
Speaker 2 (46:52):
Yeah, thanks for the call, kristen.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the
Wayward Home Podcast.
Come on over and follow myadventures on Instagram and if
you have any burning van lifequestions, send me a DM.
You'll find me over there atthe Wayward Home.
I hope to see you there andthanks so much for listening to
this episode of the Wayward HomePodcast.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.