November 29, 2023 • 34 mins
Want to turn your nomadic dreams into a reality without breaking the bank? Our guest, van builder and YouTuber Nate Murphy, has spent four years living the van life and boasts 18 years of experience building products, houses, and tiny homes on wheels. Join us as Nate shares his stories, challenges, and the joy of crafting your own space.
We discuss the intimidating aspects of van building, including handling electrical and gas systems, and how you can approach these hurdles. Nate introduces the concept of 'zero cost van life,' explaining how selecting the right van model and thoughtful planning can help you sell your van for profit or break even after a few years.
Get ready for some practical advice as Nate reveals his tips on building a van on a budget, and how you can source free materials and resources for your build. He speaks about his course and webinar on zero cost van life, curated with lessons drawn from his own experiences. From the fulfilment of creating your own tiny home on wheels to the transformative experience of van life and its financial benefits - Nate's insights are sure to inspire you.
Links mentioned in this episode:
Zero-cost Vanlife Webinar
DIY Hero Course
The Van Conversion Guide Ebook
Follow Nate:
YouTube
Instagram
Check out the full blog post on TheWaywardHome.com.
Connect with Kristin Hanes and The Wayward Home!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Well, building out a campervan is expensive and time
consuming.
We're still working on our vanbuild two years after we first
got our Sprinter Cargo Van.
But what if I told you there'sa way to live the van life at
zero cost?
Tempting, right?
Well, that's what we're talkingabout today with van builder
and YouTuber Nate Murphy.
Let's go.
Welcome to the Wayward HomePodcast.
(00:20):
All about van life boat lifeand nomadic living.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
We'll bring you tips, interviews and stories from the
road and on the water.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Now here's your host, Kristen Haynes.
I'm Kristen Haynes with thewaywardhomecom.
I spend half the time in mySprinter Van and half the year
in my sailboat in Mexico, and Ihope to inspire you to live
nomadically as well.
So what if I told you that youcould live van life at zero cost
?
Sounds like a pipe dream, right?
Well, we actually have a vanbuilder and YouTuber, nate
(00:47):
Murphy, here to tell us thatliving at zero cost van life is
actually a possibility, which isreally exciting for this
episode of the Wayward HomePodcast.
Nate lived out of a van forfour years and has been building
out vans, products and homesfor 18 years.
So, nate, I'm so excited you'rehere and joining us on the
Wayward Home Podcast today.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Well, thank you for having me, Kristen.
It's a real privilege to be onyour podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Awesome.
So let's just go back to thebeginning and what originally
inspired you to start living thevan life.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
So originally we're going back like 10 years.
I was living in London and Iwas mostly running my businesses
and I just kind of reallywanted to shake things up and
just change my life.
So I left London, I decided Iwas going to focus on rock
climbing for three years.
This was like a passion that Ihad for a long time but never
(01:37):
dedicated all my time to.
So I thought, ok, I'm going tosave some money and I'm just
going to go and I'm going to seewhat happens.
So for the first year I'm sortof just traveling, backpacking
some long term Airbnbs.
And then I came back to Europeand I'm like, ok, well, I want
to find a way to travel cheaplyand effectively, and the van is
(01:59):
a common choice for climbers.
So it was sort of felt anobvious path to go down to some
extent.
So, yes, I bought a van, Ifitted it out and that was the
start.
That was the start of my vanlife, just a way to kind of
focus on my passion withoutcosting an enormous amount of
being really flexible with mylife.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Oh, for sure.
And so that whole time were youliving van life over in Europe,
or did you also go to otherplaces as well?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
So actually I was pretty much using the van at
base.
For probably six to eightmonths a year I was in the van,
and then the other four to sixmonths I'd probably be on
another continent.
So I was in Yosemite NationalPark, so I do seasons there, and
then I'd like maybe get in NewMexico and then I'd be in Asia.
Then I come back to Europe andthere's my home.
(02:47):
My van has been parked upsomewhere and I'm back in the
van for like six months orsomething.
Can I do like a shamaneseseason or something like that?
So the van was like replaced athome, so it was like a base for
travel but also to leave andhave all your stuff in and come
back to, which is very differentif you were like backpacking
and things before, becausethere's only so much you can
(03:07):
carry and you know if you'redoing a lot of climbing, big
walling, you need a lot of bigwalling, equipment, portal edges
and huge bags and tons of gear.
You just can't.
You can't have that flexibilityand travel all the time.
If you're not living out of avan or something, you'll have a
place.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Yep, yep, that is so true.
And so you built out this vanon your own, of course, right,
and was that challenging?
Or what was that like for youinitially to jump into the van
build space?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
So I jumped in the first van build and I was like
really, really keen to do itquickly, just because I was
really excited to go climbing,basically.
So I made it like this reallyintensive build and it was.
I think out there there wasn'tlike a huge amount of like very
easy, accessible informationback then and I mean there were
(03:59):
some blogs which were quite good, and then on YouTube YouTube
was this like hellscape of, likeyou know, some old guy in a van
talking about insulation for anhour and you're just like this
is just, this is terrible.
So when I was building the van,I thought, okay, well, if I
document this, this will beuseful for other people.
I would just show everything inlike half an hour, like the
(04:20):
whole process.
This is what works, this isfine and that updated really
really well.
But in general, I have abackground in industrial design,
so I think, like, especiallythe planning parts and the
making isn't very intimidatingfor me because I've made stuff
in the past, but it was.
I think it's a fantasticproject.
It's a really enjoyable thing.
You're making a tiny home onwheels, I you know, and it's so
(04:42):
many different layers.
You've got to make someelectrics, you've got to do some
plumbing and then you get to goand use it and I think that
process for me it was, I lovedit.
And I know a lot of otherpeople even if they've like
never built something before,once they've completed it and
they're just like, wow, I madethis and now they use it and
they go on there.
I think it's a fantastic thingto do.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Totally, and so you started out with this YouTube
channel, and I know your YouTubechannel is now huge, and so did
that just start out with youshowing these various this van
builds on there in an easy wayfor people to digest.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
So actually it started out I was just sharing
my process of dedicated intoclimbing and kind of like, okay,
what happens if you justdedicate full time to climbing
and how does that progress?
And I was sharing sort of likesort of travel vlogs with very,
very heavy climbing thing.
But then I did do like a carconversion.
It was like it's $100.
I just sort of made somecupboards and that was like my
(05:38):
best performing video.
So when I was doing the van,I'm like, well, I reckon like if
I made a video about the vanconversion, it will get like
more views than that and maybeyou know, it will turn into
something.
And yeah, it did really well.
So off the back of thatoriginal sort of van video,
that's really what gave birth tomy channel.
Like you know, realisticallythat's a chunk of luck, but I
(06:02):
was just prepared to sort oftake advantage of that luck and
then turn it into somethingbigger and more and sort of grow
it and scale it.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
For sure, and so, yeah, so a lot of people started
, you know, watching you onthere and what do you think are
some of people's biggestconcerns when building a van?
I know this is challenging fora lot of people who have never,
even you know, built anything.
So what were you hearing frompeople and how were you trying
to help people build vans?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
So originally, I mean , I just had loads and loads of
questions because I had likemillions of views.
So people just fire me atquestions.
Okay right, I'll just convertthis into like an ebook.
I'll just sell an ebook andthat works.
But in general, people are mostintimidated by electrics.
That's the thing that peoplealways for.
Only that's the thing I'm mostconcerned about.
Sometimes people are worriedabout, you know, doing the big
(06:50):
cuts in the van because it'sintimidating.
You spend a lot of money onthis vehicle and now you're
gonna cut a hole in it.
That's definitely a scary thing, but that's something like it's
not too bad in general.
But the electrics for a lot ofpeople there's like some theory.
You've got to become, you'vegot to understand some of the
stuff you're doing and youalways want to install something
which is safe.
So I think there's definitelyan intimidation factor.
(07:11):
And other than that, I guessyou know gas people are
concerned about.
But yeah, often people get aprofessional to install parts of
the gas system at least.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Yeah, that's true.
That is a good idea to, if youdon't know a certain thing, to
hire someone to do thatcomponent and is that something
that you've seen people do islike they'll build some of it
but then hire the plumbing orhire the electricity or like the
gas, like you said.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Yeah, I mean that's kind of frequent.
Mostly it's gas.
Sometimes in certain places.
To have your van ensured, ifyou want to rent it or if you
want to sell it for rental orsomething, then you need to have
like gas safe or compliancesystems and to do that you need
like a professional to at leastsign it off, and they often
don't really want to sign it offunless they basically installed
it.
So a lot of often it's gassystems.
(07:57):
People do that.
Electrics yeah, some people getsomeone to help them with the
electrics, but actually you'vegot a good electrical sort of
schematic and you know what.
You basically can follow a plan.
It's not so complicated.
You just follow instructionscarefully and try to do a tidy
job and actually if you do thatit'll work.
Maybe you're not able to likedesign the system to be super
(08:20):
optimized and efficient, but youcan actually make it.
That's the bit which isn't toocomplicated.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
That's amazing, and yeah.
So, talking about all this, andyou know what I said at the
beginning, that you've come upwith this concept of zero cost
van life, which is, that's, ofcourse, very attention grabbing,
because buying a van isexpensive, building a van is
expensive it's like what?
How do you do that?
And so what is?
Tell us a little bit about thatconcept of zero cost van life.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
So really was born from my first van and I was
thinking, well, if I build out avan and I do like a decent job
for sure I can use this forthree years like full time, live
in my dream seeing whatever Iwant to do doing what I want to
do, and I should be able to sellit at the end of that three
years or whatever, and I shouldeither break even or I should be
able to make a profit.
(09:06):
In my first van, like it wasn'tlike perfectly set up for
resale, it was a bit of aclimbers' debt bag van, like it
looked nice, it was good, it wasmissing like features that a
lot of people would want.
And then with my second van,I'm like I'm not making those
mistakes again.
I'm like installing thefeatures that majority people
want and I set it up.
(09:28):
So I set it up in a way so thatit could be sold and it would
fit the market a bit better.
And then I made, like you know,15,000 profit or something and
that you know, after using itfor three years.
So it was.
And then, basically, when I cometo my third van and we're
starting to make a course, I waslike really trying to put this
into like a way to formulate itto understand okay, exactly how
(09:51):
could you take people with thesteps to design and build a van
which will give them the bestchances of like breaking even or
making a profit after they'veused it for a bunch of years?
Because then you know you couldbuy a van and you're like, okay
, it's costing me a lot of moneybut it won't really cost me
money because later I'll sell itfor profit or I'll break even.
So basically that makes, likeowning a van, ownership free.
(10:14):
Of course you could like say,well, you could build out of an,
you could rent it.
But that's like work as well,you know, and there's risk and
there's a cost to your van.
But if it's just for yourpersonal use, it's perfectly
possible to break even or make aprofit after you've used it for
a bunch of years.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Yeah, I love that concept and probably the first
part of that is choosing a vanthat someone's going to want to
buy.
So you have to put some effortand time into picking probably
the right model, and how do youcoach people or what do you
suggest for types of vans thatsomeone should choose for resale
.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
So I think this also is like sort of depends on where
you are in the world.
So there's like a slightly morelimited set of vans really in
the States and there's a fewmore variation in Europe because
you have a lot of panel vansused for basically everything in
Europe.
So it sort of depends on that.
But I guess really it's not somuch the type of van, it's more
(11:08):
about the feature set and themileage and how much you spend,
you know.
So I've got this like what Icall like the golden rule.
And basically the golden ruleis like really rule of thumb,
but it's you shouldn't spendmore than like 50% on the build
of the like the base vehiclecost.
So if your vehicle costs you20,000, don't spend more than
10,000 on the build because thevehicle would depreciate all
(11:30):
your stuff.
So if you did the inverse ofthat you spent 20,000 and you
bought on the build and all thekit and it costs 10,000 van then
when that $10,000 van's gotlike a huge mileage, People
buying they don't care, theydon't really understand how
fancy the kit is, They'll justsee an old van and they won't
want to pay the money that iskind of technically worth.
(11:51):
So it's like looking at A forlike what, how, your budget.
But then the other aspect is,which is really important is
like, like, realistically, whatare your skills?
If you're going to want to sella van at the end and you want
to sell it for like $100,000,you've got to make some pretty
like nice features and you'vegot to have a like good, high
level craftsmanship.
Like you can sell a $100,000van if you've done like a really
(12:15):
shorty job, People just won'tbuy it.
So it's also matching yourskill set, the budget, the van,
the initial van costs andmileage.
So I mean generally, I thinklike if you've got like a lower
end van, you know it's like youknow five to 12, $15,000.
I wouldn't like to make aprofit, but you can probably
break even.
But in that middle or uppertier, then you can.
(12:37):
Then you can make some money.
And again in my mind, like it'snot so much like making a
profit, which is a wellimportant, but I love it, the
idea, the concept that even forthe lower budget vans you can
live your dream for like threeyears or something, have the
best time, full time living allof it, and then you can sell
your van and it costs younothing.
(12:59):
I think that's super cool.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Yeah, I think that's such a great concept as well,
because not everyone wants tolive this way indefinitely, and
just thinking about that beforeyou do the build and before you
buy the van is a great way toactually start the process so
that people can end up sellingit, because, like you said, the
level of workmanship has to bedecent enough for the resale
value.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely yeah.
And the feature set.
You know like if you'respending $100,000 of the van,
you know maybe you like a BayArea tech bro, but otherwise
you're generally like a bitolder because you've got some
money and you want an internalshower, you want a decent fridge
, you want a reliable.
You know you've got to put thefeatures in.
Like you can't be.
(13:40):
Like well, I'm a debt bag likesurfer and I don't need a fridge
, I use shower, but you stillthink you can sell it for
$100,000?
Like no, they didn't want that.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Yeah, and especially because there's so many vans you
know on the market and so manycustom builders that are
building these beautiful vansthat are selling, you know, used
.
Now it seems like people haveto up their game a little bit to
compete.
Have you been seeing that typeof thing?
Speaker 2 (14:03):
I mean, I think like the general standard
expectations of bands over thelast sort of like eight years or
so has really gone up becauseit's I mean it's partly driven
by, like YouTube channels likemine or maybe blogs like yours,
is you highlight these reallyamazing bands and people are
like, oh, I need that?
Probably don't, but, like youknow, it drives this standard up
(14:23):
.
You know my first band like itwas aspirational at the time, it
looked really cool.
If I publish that van nowpeople will be like, oh, what's
the stuff?
You know it would not be, itwould not do that well.
But my latest van it's likeI've had to upgrade my stuff,
like I made a van to make thecourse, so it was like we call
it the demo van on the courseand it just had to be like at a
(14:48):
higher standard, with moreinnovative thinking and like
more fancy kit just to show allthe stuff that people want to
install, but also to beaspirational so that when we put
the content out it gets views.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Yeah, that is true.
Gone are the days of what weused to do, it's camp in the
Chevy Astro van, with a simplebed and fridge system.
It's like people don't wantthat.
They want something that lookslike an apartment, you know.
So I feel like Instagram hasdriven a lot of that, as you
were saying.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
It's kind of insane, I think, really what it is?
It's like the consumerism of,like consumerization of van life
.
You know it's like gone are thedays where people are like, oh,
I'm going to make something,I'm going to live a bit rough,
and it's like people want thethings because they've seen the
things Like desires, prettymemetic.
You see it, you want it, andpeople, it's very easy to get
(15:39):
into this track of mind where,like, you see what's available
and you think, well, if I don'thave a bed which zips up and
down and you know like 2000amp-hours of lithium batteries
and everything else, I'm justgoing to be miserable in my van.
You know it's going to berubbish and it's not true.
Like I mean, maybe if you'relike really really low ability
(16:03):
to like take discomfort, but for, in my mind actually, I think
it's all a bit of a misnomer.
Like, often, like the morebasic it is, the better the
adventure, Like luxury andcomfort somehow takes it away.
Like I felt my first van wasthe best van for climbing travel
.
My current van, oh, it justfeels too fancy.
(16:24):
You know, it's a weird thing,right?
Maybe this is like a problem Ihave, you know, but like it's
too, it's where's the adventure?
When there's like almost likeno suffering, you know there's
no, nothing can go wrong.
It's like got so much power andso all this stuff, and you're
like, well, it's just like beingin the palm.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, yeah, that's funny you say that because, yeah
, I do still think of van lifeas kind of going back to basics
and giving stuff up, becauseonce you regain those things
they become like incredibleagain.
Like we don't have the runninghot water in our van and
whenever I get running hot waterI'm like, oh my gosh, I really
appreciate it and I think youknow that's part of the van life
.
Allure to me is taking thatstep back out of modern society
(17:06):
and being like more like abackpacker, where I have the
things that are more comfortablethan a backpack but I don't
need like the fanciest thingsthat are out there right now.
So it's kind of funny like youwere saying that trend is the
more fancy.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Yeah, I mean if you're like, say, you're working
full time, you're digitally mad, you want just like perfect
reliability, then yes, sure,spend $15,000 on your electoral
system or $20,000.
But I didn't know.
I think the big downside to itand it's like people should
spend what they want on the vanand have the fanciest van they
want.
I'm like 100% on board withthat call.
(17:40):
But what I worry about is thatpeople see all the fancy stuff.
They think they need the fancystuff, otherwise they can't have
an adventure or it'll behorrible, and then they don't do
it.
That's the bit which, like kindof like I feel, makes me
uncomfortable about theconsumerization of our life,
because you just feel like if Idon't have these things and I
(18:01):
can't do it, and if I can'tafford these things, then I
won't, and I feel like that'sgoing to make people miss out.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yes, I totally agree with that and that's why I
always tell people I started inan Astro minivan and we lived
out of that for three years andit was fun and it was cheap and
anyone can do it, and so I tryto keep that going that just try
it in any van.
Throw mattress down like gohave fun.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yeah, Just like, even just given like a week or
something.
It doesn't have to be like afive year trip.
I think the thing is likepeople build it up.
They build up what they needand they build up the trip and
like everything must be perfect.
It's like a wedding orsomething right.
They start off, all, dosomething simple and then like
they're like $50,000 down andthey've got like jugglers or
like a trapeze or something.
(18:44):
Yeah, but it's mission creep.
It's super common and I can'tblame people for it, but it's
yeah, yeah, anyway.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Yeah, how it is.
So, in terms of someone doingthese builds and selling, you
know, not even to make a profit,like you were saying, but to
break even, like, what kinds ofcomponents do you think are
necessary now for a van buildthat someone can break even on?
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I think what the buyers are looking for now in
general, they're looking forsomething which is aesthetically
nice, doesn't?
That doesn't mean expensive,but it's like doing nice design
Like Google pictures of, likeluxury shallows and just kind of
rip off their color schemes andthings right.
The other thing they're lookingfor is usually like ventilation
(19:28):
.
So they want something that cango in and drive a fan which
would drive the air out.
They want a fridge.
They want a shower doesn't haveto be internal, could be an
external one, but they wanted tobe hot and they probably want a
heater.
But depends a bit where in theworld you are for that and to
have the heater then you mightbe running off a refittable gas
(19:49):
system or diesel.
But I mean these are like thereal basics you know people want
.
These are like real tick boxthings.
I mean if it's like a dirtbagvan and you're selling for 10
grand like people don't care,but if it's like $40,000, you
just have to have like properventilation system, decent
decinish power and so on.
Yeah, fridge, some kind ofshower, yeah, and heater.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Yeah, so you decided to build out a course.
You had a YouTube channel.
You were getting a lot ofviewers and questions, and so
you built out this course tohelp teach people this process.
And that's super handy, becauseI also think that there's a lot
of information out there andthere's information overload.
And so tell me why you decidedto build this course and what
(20:37):
you want people to get out of it.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
So I mean, before I've been selling an ebook and
the ebook is now into like 14thedition, so it's like way better
than it was the first time Iwrote it, because I just smashed
it out just to like solve theproblem of people asking
questions and to try and drivesome revenue, to be quite honest
.
And now it's in the 14thedition.
We sold tens of thousands ofthem and I just always had this
(20:59):
like sort of feedback over timethat people would like more.
You know, like people askingquestions about things in the
ebook and you're like, well, youknow there's, there's any so
much like information you canwrite down and have big pictures
and diagrams.
So really I set out with likeone mission and the mission was
like how can we make building avan as like as absolutely easy
(21:21):
as possible?
How do we tackle like the big,scary things people have?
So really what we ended up withis okay to do this, we're going
to need to build a van, we'regoing to film everything and
we're going to put in adifferent system so you can
understand these.
Different things show differentlike ways of building things,
different finishes, and thenthat, turned into a course, is
(21:41):
like 170 videos.
It's like it was a monsterproject, cost an absolute
fortune to put together and wehad.
And then we got lots ofmaterials to share with that and
then we should.
We wrote the ebook to help givethat context.
And then we also teamed up withElectro engineer.
He's got his own company butbasically he provides electrical
(22:01):
consultation as part of thecourse is included in the fee
and he'll basically design youyour electrical system.
So you get a diagram and youcan.
You can order the stuff off himor you just order the stuff
independently and then you canbasically just follow the
instructions and you know besafe.
You know it's like all correct.
It's like correct for youralternator if you're ending it.
It's like correct foreverything's going to work like
(22:23):
perfectly and it will be and itwill be safe.
So it's like tick that box.
And then we have a communitywhere basically I talk to people
in the community literallyevery day and they're just like
asking questions, looking foradvice or sharing things and
basically it's just trying tolike they're not, make them,
make people feel like they'renot alone, they can access like
quick information.
(22:44):
When they're like stuck, thenit's like show them every single
process in high detail so theycan like watch and do and watch
and do and then, yes, solve thatelectrical problem.
So that's what we set out to doand I'm just know I'm super
happy with all.
People are on the course, seemvery happy with result, which is
great.
So, yeah, I hope that answersthe question.
(23:04):
Yeah, that's really cool becauseI feel like a lot of people are
worried about the electricalsystem, especially if they're
not an electrician, and there'sso much info out there and I'm
not convinced it's all accurateand so, yeah, that's kind of
there is a problem in like vanlife and like, in a way, the
first time I built out of vanand in the book this is like
(23:25):
quite a while ago, so there justwasn't that much information,
but like that was the first banI built.
Now I do have like a technicalbackground or industrial design,
but you know there's a lot ofpeople who become influencers in
van life and they built one vanand one van only.
They probably followed someoneelse's information and now they
like need to give advice becausethey want to sell product or
(23:46):
affiliate stuff.
So you end up with this likeweird merry go round of like
information and like weirdinformation or like over
conversation for things likethey're doing like stuff you
haven't really need to do, butthat's what they think and
that's what they sell.
So you end up with this areally confusing world of
information.
So that was the thing it's like.
You know, I've got a lot ofexperience in the last like 10
(24:07):
years of bands found buildingand I can just put that all in
one place and then it's justlike, don't worry about all of
that stuff, this will work andjust follow it and it will work.
You know, I have like 10 yearsof owning bands, you know, and
it's worked, it's fine.
And I think it's just takesthat endless research out of it.
People talk for days of ourinstallation days.
(24:30):
It's yeah, I can't, I can't, Ican't even involve myself in it.
It's like debates aboutinsulation is like, yeah, do
these, they'll work and it'll befine.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
They worry about it.
I think that's great thatyou're taking this concept and
Putting it in steps and ordersand kind of simplifying it for
people, because it isoverwhelming, especially if
someone's never built a van, andso if someone has like no
building experience at all, doyou think they can build out a
van, or do you recommend theytake a class and get some
experience?
Or what kind of skill level Dopeople need to build a van?
Speaker 2 (25:03):
So, so in general, like it I've said this for a
long time but like I reallyreally believe like anyone,
anyone can build out a van Likeit's nothing in.
Building a van is like so likedomain specific that you can't
figure it out or do it.
It's like everything in a van.
It's quite small, you know.
It's not like building a house.
The like, the genuinely like.
(25:25):
You screw something up, you canundo it.
It doesn't cost enormousamounts unless you, you know,
really made some tragic mistake.
So and the thing is, it's likethat's my belief, but it
believes backed up by justseeing people who do it and do
it and do it.
I've met personally on the roada lot of people who, like,
followed my e-book or the peoplegoing through the course and
(25:45):
it's like this, almost like thisreally nice connective,
universal experiences peoplehave, because they're like you
know, when I started do this,people were just like, yeah, I
don't think, like you know, theylike doubting them or they
really doubt in themselves, butthey just like, keep at it, they
learn the things and thenthey're like suddenly like
comfortable using a jigsaw and adrill and like they figured out
(26:05):
how to do Pre-drill and screwsand all these things which, like
you know, someone who's beenbuilding for a long time just
takes for granted.
But, like, coming back to basics, like you know, just how do you
use a tool, like we, like, wehave a whole module in the
course how to use the basictools, what they are, what the
features do, because it's notobvious and and but this, yeah.
So this experience I Seen again, again, as they go through this
(26:27):
process and they've built thisthing and it might not be the
most perfect Cabinetry, for sure, and like, but it's a, it's a
good looking man, it looks good,it does the job, everything
works.
They're like super proud, it'slike being a transformative
experience for them.
And you know, and they justrealized, like, yeah, I could do
more.
You know, they've, they've gonefrom like so someone who
(26:49):
thought they could not put up ashelf, now they've built a van
and I think it's like, once theylike buy the van, they pull the
trigger and they go on thatjourney and at the end of it,
they've, they've changed,they've, they've learned
something about themselves,about what they can do, which
maybe like, isn't it?
But they couldn't believe itbefore.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Yeah, that's a really interesting point because I
think there's so many vans onthe market that you can just go
buy and they're already built.
But I'm sure it's a differentbecause we're building out a
sprinter and luckily, you know,my partner Tom has build
experience I don't, but it is agood feeling that you complete
these components and they'rehere and you're using on and
living in it and you designed it, and it is a really good
feeling compared to just buyingsomething off a lot, and so I
(27:29):
think that's cool, that you'veseen that, and it's a lot
cheaper.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
You know, hey, that's the thing I mean.
Some people on my course andthey were like I went to this,
like van build show, likethey're looking at, like the
bands you can buy off the shelf,or like custom builds and
they're just like Reallyexpensive.
I mean, if it's like you know,like a commercial van, they got
big markup and often like thematerials and things can not so
be the greatest.
(27:52):
But then if it's like a custombuild, then it's like High, high
cost labor, because skill,highly skilled labor, and it's
like complex and and and it'slike either way it's expensive.
So you can and then you're notgonna like get your custom
builder with like a slightlyolder van and ask them to build
it out and it'll cost youenormous amount of money because
you wouldn't get the money backbecause the van's too old.
(28:14):
So I think for a lot of peopleit's like the, it's like the
nice, a financial choice, it'slike the sensible financial
choice, um, but also, if you dodo it yourself, then does open
the door for the cereal cost,van life, um, where you can
basically do this and it'll cost, cost you nothing in the long
run.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Yeah, that's true, because if you buy a 200,000 or
300,000 dollar custom build,there's no way you're gonna
recoup your money like at all.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
I'm and it's insane.
Like I mean, I didn't know,maybe I'm just like a cheap or
something, but like for me it'slike do you think 200, 300,000
dollars on like a van?
Honestly, my house cost like Ididn't in dollars like 170 and I
did entire innovation withinthat budget and it's a beautiful
house.
You know it's like for a van,well, just to get on the holiday
(29:02):
or like go on a camping trip, Ididn't know, and like that sort
of money.
You're like wow, I didn't know,maybe if you've got tons of
money, cool.
But like, yeah, but above wasmy mind.
Hello.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Yeah, I know I do see some of these very expensive
builds going on over here and Ijust finished traveling in
Europe and I'm not sure I didn'tsee those really crazy
expensive fans over there.
Is it more of a thing, do youthink, over here in the States
than than where you are?
Speaker 2 (29:30):
I think everything like we'll just get a bit more
amped up in the States becauselike partly there's like More
people with like tons of cash,um, maybe there's like a more of
a culture for van life, somaybe that like attracts more,
more, more money.
Um, you do get like big,expensive rigs in in Europe, but
(29:51):
I'm sure not to the extent likein california or somewhere like
that, where you know there'slike tons of people who just
like Ah yeah, I just dropped 300grand on a van to go away for a
weekend or go to burning man orsomething you know it's.
There's definitely less of thatin in europe and and depending,
yeah, you know there arewealthy parts of Europe, but
it's not the same.
Yeah, not the same cool.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
So your course goes through, like you were saying,
like every comp, every part ofof a van build, and you built a
van from scratch in the course,so someone can literally just
kind of follow along with theentire thing.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's super cool, so um so,yeah, exactly, there's, that's,
that's, that's, that's reallythe Like, the high-level way to
aim that you can.
I have people who finish thevan already and they're just
like, yeah, I just go in, Iwatch it, I make some notes, I
go out, I build, I go back andthey just repeat.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Great.
And then you talked about theelectrical consultation a little
bit.
I just want to touch on thatlittle more because I just know
that's Many people's pain points.
So Someone, will you get aphone call or a video call with
with the engineer that helpsdesign something for your
specific needs?
Is that how that works?
Speaker 2 (30:57):
They, yeah, I mean.
But well, the way we do in thecourse is people fill out a bit
of a survey of kind of likeRoughly what their needs, so we
get them to think about whatthey want and their needs first,
um, and then they have like aone-hour consultation with with
tom.
He's an amazing, off-grid, tonsof experience electrical
engineer and he's like supercool, super friendly and he'll
just like go through it.
Maybe he were like give yousome advice of maybe like where
(31:20):
some of your expectations arerealistic, or or maybe things
you can just rethink about.
But in general, who like takethose, those needs, the things
you want, and he'll design yoursystem and you'll get like a
full electronic schematic and ifyou want, you can buy this
stuff through him and you justbasically get every single down
to the lugs and cables and wires, everything a long go and you
just assemble it.
(31:41):
That that takes like all thepain.
All the pain.
And the other thing is becauseyou could buy in all of the like
their small components from areptile supplier, because if you
buy stuff on Amazon sometimesit's like these Chinese things
they're a bit too lightweightfor the actual like.
They look the same if you don'tknow what you're looking at,
but it's, it's not.
You know it's too lightweightfor the current, you put them
through it, things of that.
So so you just know you'regetting the right stuff and you
(32:03):
can be confident that you'reputting in a system that isn't
gonna catch fire.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Wow, yeah, that's an an incredible value add to what
people can get with your course.
So that's, that seems fantastic.
It's so cool, yeah, so you havea webinar, you know, a free
webinar about how to live thevan life at zero cost, where you
can go even more In depth intothis.
And then you also have thecourse.
It's for sale, and so Anythingelse people need to know about
(32:30):
your offerings I'll put thelinks, of course, to find you in
the show notes, but, yeah,anything else it's genuinely, I
would say, if you, if you'rethinking about van life and and
it's like something on thehorizon You're kind of really
starting to think about it watchthe webinar.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
It's it tastes you through.
It's obviously like I'm notgonna lie, it's it was so
selling a course and we got anice discount for you at the end
of that that webinar.
If you watch the webinar, butit takes you through everything
you need to really know or thinkabout.
If you want to like go towardslike zero cost or Proper van
life, like how to think aboutthe market, how to assess it,
how to understand you know whatit is like for you, where you
(33:06):
are in the world, what featuresto do, this balance between your
Capability and and the priceproposition, the golden rule,
all these things we sort oftouched on lightly and it would
just basically fill you in withall of that.
So, if you're thinking about itlike, it doesn't sell you
anything, you don't have to buyanything.
It's completely free.
So, yeah, I would just reallyrecommend anyone who's thinking
(33:26):
of doing the van just watch thewebinar.
It will give you thoughts whichare valuable.
I Spend a lot of time hardlearning those, hard learning
those thoughts, and so I couldshare that with some some
authority.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Yeah, oh for sure, and that's a fantastic resource
in itself.
And you also have your YouTubechannel still, if people just
want to learn as well.
So that's just Nate Murphy onYouTube.
Yeah, that's right, yeah, yeah,very cool, awesome.
Well, it's so exciting that youhave all these offerings now.
I you know I've heard about youon on YouTube, but to have this
tangible course that people canactually walk through with
(34:00):
their Own pace and ask youquestions, that seems super cool
.
So, yeah, I'm so glad that youwere able to come talk about
that.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
We enjoyed it so nice to sort of have a sort of
face-to-face thing.
It's kind of funny you in thevan and I'm in a house.
It should be the other wayaround it's fine.
But I don't really appreciateit.
And yeah, thank you so much forletting me come on your podcast
.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Yeah, fantastic, and I'll put all your links in the
show notes.
People can find you and followyou and I'm really excited to go
check out the Course and alsolook at some of your van builds
again.
So thank you so much forjoining me and, yeah, have a
wonderful day.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Thank you, chris, all right, see you later.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Remember to head on down to the show notes and sign
up for Nate Murphy's webinar onzero cost van life, and if
you're ready to get buildingright now, I'll also add a link
to his course, which includesstep-by-step tutorials on
building a van, plus anelectrical Consultation and help
and access to Nate and a largercommunity a really good deal,
if you ask me.
Well, thanks so much forlistening to this episode of the
(34:56):
wayward home podcast and I'llsee you next time.
Well, building out a campervan is expensive and time
consuming.
We're still working on our vanbuild two years after we first
got our Sprinter Cargo Van.
But what if I told you there'sa way to live the van life at
zero cost?
Tempting, right?
Well, that's what we're talkingabout today with van builder
and YouTuber Nate Murphy.
Let's go.
Welcome to the Wayward HomePodcast.
(00:20):
All about van life boat lifeand nomadic living.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
We'll bring you tips, interviews and stories from the
road and on the water.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Now here's your host, Kristen Haynes.
I'm Kristen Haynes with thewaywardhomecom.
I spend half the time in mySprinter Van and half the year
in my sailboat in Mexico, and Ihope to inspire you to live
nomadically as well.
So what if I told you that youcould live van life at zero cost
?
Sounds like a pipe dream, right?
Well, we actually have a vanbuilder and YouTuber, nate
(00:47):
Murphy, here to tell us thatliving at zero cost van life is
actually a possibility, which isreally exciting for this
episode of the Wayward HomePodcast.
Nate lived out of a van forfour years and has been building
out vans, products and homesfor 18 years.
So, nate, I'm so excited you'rehere and joining us on the
Wayward Home Podcast today.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Well, thank you for having me, Kristen.
It's a real privilege to be onyour podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Awesome.
So let's just go back to thebeginning and what originally
inspired you to start living thevan life.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
So originally we're going back like 10 years.
I was living in London and Iwas mostly running my businesses
and I just kind of reallywanted to shake things up and
just change my life.
So I left London, I decided Iwas going to focus on rock
climbing for three years.
This was like a passion that Ihad for a long time but never
(01:37):
dedicated all my time to.
So I thought, ok, I'm going tosave some money and I'm just
going to go and I'm going to seewhat happens.
So for the first year I'm sortof just traveling, backpacking
some long term Airbnbs.
And then I came back to Europeand I'm like, ok, well, I want
to find a way to travel cheaplyand effectively, and the van is
(01:59):
a common choice for climbers.
So it was sort of felt anobvious path to go down to some
extent.
So, yes, I bought a van, Ifitted it out and that was the
start.
That was the start of my vanlife, just a way to kind of
focus on my passion withoutcosting an enormous amount of
being really flexible with mylife.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Oh, for sure.
And so that whole time were youliving van life over in Europe,
or did you also go to otherplaces as well?
Speaker 2 (02:26):
So actually I was pretty much using the van at
base.
For probably six to eightmonths a year I was in the van,
and then the other four to sixmonths I'd probably be on
another continent.
So I was in Yosemite NationalPark, so I do seasons there, and
then I'd like maybe get in NewMexico and then I'd be in Asia.
Then I come back to Europe andthere's my home.
(02:47):
My van has been parked upsomewhere and I'm back in the
van for like six months orsomething.
Can I do like a shamaneseseason or something like that?
So the van was like replaced athome, so it was like a base for
travel but also to leave andhave all your stuff in and come
back to, which is very differentif you were like backpacking
and things before, becausethere's only so much you can
(03:07):
carry and you know if you'redoing a lot of climbing, big
walling, you need a lot of bigwalling, equipment, portal edges
and huge bags and tons of gear.
You just can't.
You can't have that flexibilityand travel all the time.
If you're not living out of avan or something, you'll have a
place.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Yep, yep, that is so true.
And so you built out this vanon your own, of course, right,
and was that challenging?
Or what was that like for youinitially to jump into the van
build space?
Speaker 2 (03:37):
So I jumped in the first van build and I was like
really, really keen to do itquickly, just because I was
really excited to go climbing,basically.
So I made it like this reallyintensive build and it was.
I think out there there wasn'tlike a huge amount of like very
easy, accessible informationback then and I mean there were
(03:59):
some blogs which were quite good, and then on YouTube YouTube
was this like hellscape of, likeyou know, some old guy in a van
talking about insulation for anhour and you're just like this
is just, this is terrible.
So when I was building the van,I thought, okay, well, if I
document this, this will beuseful for other people.
I would just show everything inlike half an hour, like the
(04:20):
whole process.
This is what works, this isfine and that updated really
really well.
But in general, I have abackground in industrial design,
so I think, like, especiallythe planning parts and the
making isn't very intimidatingfor me because I've made stuff
in the past, but it was.
I think it's a fantasticproject.
It's a really enjoyable thing.
You're making a tiny home onwheels, I you know, and it's so
(04:42):
many different layers.
You've got to make someelectrics, you've got to do some
plumbing and then you get to goand use it and I think that
process for me it was, I lovedit.
And I know a lot of otherpeople even if they've like
never built something before,once they've completed it and
they're just like, wow, I madethis and now they use it and
they go on there.
I think it's a fantastic thingto do.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Totally, and so you started out with this YouTube
channel, and I know your YouTubechannel is now huge, and so did
that just start out with youshowing these various this van
builds on there in an easy wayfor people to digest.
Speaker 2 (05:16):
So actually it started out I was just sharing
my process of dedicated intoclimbing and kind of like, okay,
what happens if you justdedicate full time to climbing
and how does that progress?
And I was sharing sort of likesort of travel vlogs with very,
very heavy climbing thing.
But then I did do like a carconversion.
It was like it's $100.
I just sort of made somecupboards and that was like my
(05:38):
best performing video.
So when I was doing the van,I'm like, well, I reckon like if
I made a video about the vanconversion, it will get like
more views than that and maybeyou know, it will turn into
something.
And yeah, it did really well.
So off the back of thatoriginal sort of van video,
that's really what gave birth tomy channel.
Like you know, realisticallythat's a chunk of luck, but I
(06:02):
was just prepared to sort oftake advantage of that luck and
then turn it into somethingbigger and more and sort of grow
it and scale it.
Speaker 1 (06:09):
For sure, and so, yeah, so a lot of people started
, you know, watching you onthere and what do you think are
some of people's biggestconcerns when building a van?
I know this is challenging fora lot of people who have never,
even you know, built anything.
So what were you hearing frompeople and how were you trying
to help people build vans?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
So originally, I mean , I just had loads and loads of
questions because I had likemillions of views.
So people just fire me atquestions.
Okay right, I'll just convertthis into like an ebook.
I'll just sell an ebook andthat works.
But in general, people are mostintimidated by electrics.
That's the thing that peoplealways for.
Only that's the thing I'm mostconcerned about.
Sometimes people are worriedabout, you know, doing the big
(06:50):
cuts in the van because it'sintimidating.
You spend a lot of money onthis vehicle and now you're
gonna cut a hole in it.
That's definitely a scary thing, but that's something like it's
not too bad in general.
But the electrics for a lot ofpeople there's like some theory.
You've got to become, you'vegot to understand some of the
stuff you're doing and youalways want to install something
which is safe.
So I think there's definitelyan intimidation factor.
(07:11):
And other than that, I guessyou know gas people are
concerned about.
But yeah, often people get aprofessional to install parts of
the gas system at least.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Yeah, that's true.
That is a good idea to, if youdon't know a certain thing, to
hire someone to do thatcomponent and is that something
that you've seen people do islike they'll build some of it
but then hire the plumbing orhire the electricity or like the
gas, like you said.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Yeah, I mean that's kind of frequent.
Mostly it's gas.
Sometimes in certain places.
To have your van ensured, ifyou want to rent it or if you
want to sell it for rental orsomething, then you need to have
like gas safe or compliancesystems and to do that you need
like a professional to at leastsign it off, and they often
don't really want to sign it offunless they basically installed
it.
So a lot of often it's gassystems.
(07:57):
People do that.
Electrics yeah, some people getsomeone to help them with the
electrics, but actually you'vegot a good electrical sort of
schematic and you know what.
You basically can follow a plan.
It's not so complicated.
You just follow instructionscarefully and try to do a tidy
job and actually if you do thatit'll work.
Maybe you're not able to likedesign the system to be super
(08:20):
optimized and efficient, but youcan actually make it.
That's the bit which isn't toocomplicated.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
That's amazing, and yeah.
So, talking about all this, andyou know what I said at the
beginning, that you've come upwith this concept of zero cost
van life, which is, that's, ofcourse, very attention grabbing,
because buying a van isexpensive, building a van is
expensive it's like what?
How do you do that?
And so what is?
Tell us a little bit about thatconcept of zero cost van life.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
So really was born from my first van and I was
thinking, well, if I build out avan and I do like a decent job
for sure I can use this forthree years like full time, live
in my dream seeing whatever Iwant to do doing what I want to
do, and I should be able to sellit at the end of that three
years or whatever, and I shouldeither break even or I should be
able to make a profit.
(09:06):
In my first van, like it wasn'tlike perfectly set up for
resale, it was a bit of aclimbers' debt bag van, like it
looked nice, it was good, it wasmissing like features that a
lot of people would want.
And then with my second van,I'm like I'm not making those
mistakes again.
I'm like installing thefeatures that majority people
want and I set it up.
(09:28):
So I set it up in a way so thatit could be sold and it would
fit the market a bit better.
And then I made, like you know,15,000 profit or something and
that you know, after using itfor three years.
So it was.
And then, basically, when I cometo my third van and we're
starting to make a course, I waslike really trying to put this
into like a way to formulate itto understand okay, exactly how
(09:51):
could you take people with thesteps to design and build a van
which will give them the bestchances of like breaking even or
making a profit after they'veused it for a bunch of years?
Because then you know you couldbuy a van and you're like, okay
, it's costing me a lot of moneybut it won't really cost me
money because later I'll sell itfor profit or I'll break even.
So basically that makes, likeowning a van, ownership free.
(10:14):
Of course you could like say,well, you could build out of an,
you could rent it.
But that's like work as well,you know, and there's risk and
there's a cost to your van.
But if it's just for yourpersonal use, it's perfectly
possible to break even or make aprofit after you've used it for
a bunch of years.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Yeah, I love that concept and probably the first
part of that is choosing a vanthat someone's going to want to
buy.
So you have to put some effortand time into picking probably
the right model, and how do youcoach people or what do you
suggest for types of vans thatsomeone should choose for resale
.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
So I think this also is like sort of depends on where
you are in the world.
So there's like a slightly morelimited set of vans really in
the States and there's a fewmore variation in Europe because
you have a lot of panel vansused for basically everything in
Europe.
So it sort of depends on that.
But I guess really it's not somuch the type of van, it's more
(11:08):
about the feature set and themileage and how much you spend,
you know.
So I've got this like what Icall like the golden rule.
And basically the golden ruleis like really rule of thumb,
but it's you shouldn't spendmore than like 50% on the build
of the like the base vehiclecost.
So if your vehicle costs you20,000, don't spend more than
10,000 on the build because thevehicle would depreciate all
(11:30):
your stuff.
So if you did the inverse ofthat you spent 20,000 and you
bought on the build and all thekit and it costs 10,000 van then
when that $10,000 van's gotlike a huge mileage, People
buying they don't care, theydon't really understand how
fancy the kit is, They'll justsee an old van and they won't
want to pay the money that iskind of technically worth.
(11:51):
So it's like looking at A forlike what, how, your budget.
But then the other aspect is,which is really important is
like, like, realistically, whatare your skills?
If you're going to want to sella van at the end and you want
to sell it for like $100,000,you've got to make some pretty
like nice features and you'vegot to have a like good, high
level craftsmanship.
Like you can sell a $100,000van if you've done like a really
(12:15):
shorty job, People just won'tbuy it.
So it's also matching yourskill set, the budget, the van,
the initial van costs andmileage.
So I mean generally, I thinklike if you've got like a lower
end van, you know it's like youknow five to 12, $15,000.
I wouldn't like to make aprofit, but you can probably
break even.
But in that middle or uppertier, then you can.
(12:37):
Then you can make some money.
And again in my mind, like it'snot so much like making a
profit, which is a wellimportant, but I love it, the
idea, the concept that even forthe lower budget vans you can
live your dream for like threeyears or something, have the
best time, full time living allof it, and then you can sell
your van and it costs younothing.
(12:59):
I think that's super cool.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Yeah, I think that's such a great concept as well,
because not everyone wants tolive this way indefinitely, and
just thinking about that beforeyou do the build and before you
buy the van is a great way toactually start the process so
that people can end up sellingit, because, like you said, the
level of workmanship has to bedecent enough for the resale
value.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely yeah.
And the feature set.
You know like if you'respending $100,000 of the van,
you know maybe you like a BayArea tech bro, but otherwise
you're generally like a bitolder because you've got some
money and you want an internalshower, you want a decent fridge
, you want a reliable.
You know you've got to put thefeatures in.
Like you can't be.
(13:40):
Like well, I'm a debt bag likesurfer and I don't need a fridge
, I use shower, but you stillthink you can sell it for
$100,000?
Like no, they didn't want that.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Yeah, and especially because there's so many vans you
know on the market and so manycustom builders that are
building these beautiful vansthat are selling, you know, used
.
Now it seems like people haveto up their game a little bit to
compete.
Have you been seeing that typeof thing?
Speaker 2 (14:03):
I mean, I think like the general standard
expectations of bands over thelast sort of like eight years or
so has really gone up becauseit's I mean it's partly driven
by, like YouTube channels likemine or maybe blogs like yours,
is you highlight these reallyamazing bands and people are
like, oh, I need that?
Probably don't, but, like youknow, it drives this standard up
(14:23):
.
You know my first band like itwas aspirational at the time, it
looked really cool.
If I publish that van nowpeople will be like, oh, what's
the stuff?
You know it would not be, itwould not do that well.
But my latest van it's likeI've had to upgrade my stuff,
like I made a van to make thecourse, so it was like we call
it the demo van on the courseand it just had to be like at a
(14:48):
higher standard, with moreinnovative thinking and like
more fancy kit just to show allthe stuff that people want to
install, but also to beaspirational so that when we put
the content out it gets views.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Yeah, that is true.
Gone are the days of what weused to do, it's camp in the
Chevy Astro van, with a simplebed and fridge system.
It's like people don't wantthat.
They want something that lookslike an apartment, you know.
So I feel like Instagram hasdriven a lot of that, as you
were saying.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
It's kind of insane, I think, really what it is?
It's like the consumerism of,like consumerization of van life
.
You know it's like gone are thedays where people are like, oh,
I'm going to make something,I'm going to live a bit rough,
and it's like people want thethings because they've seen the
things Like desires, prettymemetic.
You see it, you want it, andpeople, it's very easy to get
(15:39):
into this track of mind where,like, you see what's available
and you think, well, if I don'thave a bed which zips up and
down and you know like 2000amp-hours of lithium batteries
and everything else, I'm justgoing to be miserable in my van.
You know it's going to berubbish and it's not true.
Like I mean, maybe if you'relike really really low ability
(16:03):
to like take discomfort, but for, in my mind actually, I think
it's all a bit of a misnomer.
Like, often, like the morebasic it is, the better the
adventure, Like luxury andcomfort somehow takes it away.
Like I felt my first van wasthe best van for climbing travel
.
My current van, oh, it justfeels too fancy.
(16:24):
You know, it's a weird thing,right?
Maybe this is like a problem Ihave, you know, but like it's
too, it's where's the adventure?
When there's like almost likeno suffering, you know there's
no, nothing can go wrong.
It's like got so much power andso all this stuff, and you're
like, well, it's just like beingin the palm.
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Yeah, yeah, that's funny you say that because, yeah
, I do still think of van lifeas kind of going back to basics
and giving stuff up, becauseonce you regain those things
they become like incredibleagain.
Like we don't have the runninghot water in our van and
whenever I get running hot waterI'm like, oh my gosh, I really
appreciate it and I think youknow that's part of the van life
.
Allure to me is taking thatstep back out of modern society
(17:06):
and being like more like abackpacker, where I have the
things that are more comfortablethan a backpack but I don't
need like the fanciest thingsthat are out there right now.
So it's kind of funny like youwere saying that trend is the
more fancy.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
Yeah, I mean if you're like, say, you're working
full time, you're digitally mad, you want just like perfect
reliability, then yes, sure,spend $15,000 on your electoral
system or $20,000.
But I didn't know.
I think the big downside to itand it's like people should
spend what they want on the vanand have the fanciest van they
want.
I'm like 100% on board withthat call.
(17:40):
But what I worry about is thatpeople see all the fancy stuff.
They think they need the fancystuff, otherwise they can't have
an adventure or it'll behorrible, and then they don't do
it.
That's the bit which, like kindof like I feel, makes me
uncomfortable about theconsumerization of our life,
because you just feel like if Idon't have these things and I
(18:01):
can't do it, and if I can'tafford these things, then I
won't, and I feel like that'sgoing to make people miss out.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yes, I totally agree with that and that's why I
always tell people I started inan Astro minivan and we lived
out of that for three years andit was fun and it was cheap and
anyone can do it, and so I tryto keep that going that just try
it in any van.
Throw mattress down like gohave fun.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Yeah, Just like, even just given like a week or
something.
It doesn't have to be like afive year trip.
I think the thing is likepeople build it up.
They build up what they needand they build up the trip and
like everything must be perfect.
It's like a wedding orsomething right.
They start off, all, dosomething simple and then like
they're like $50,000 down andthey've got like jugglers or
like a trapeze or something.
(18:44):
Yeah, but it's mission creep.
It's super common and I can'tblame people for it, but it's
yeah, yeah, anyway.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
Yeah, how it is.
So, in terms of someone doingthese builds and selling, you
know, not even to make a profit,like you were saying, but to
break even, like, what kinds ofcomponents do you think are
necessary now for a van buildthat someone can break even on?
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I think what the buyers are looking for now in
general, they're looking forsomething which is aesthetically
nice, doesn't?
That doesn't mean expensive,but it's like doing nice design
Like Google pictures of, likeluxury shallows and just kind of
rip off their color schemes andthings right.
The other thing they're lookingfor is usually like ventilation
(19:28):
.
So they want something that cango in and drive a fan which
would drive the air out.
They want a fridge.
They want a shower doesn't haveto be internal, could be an
external one, but they wanted tobe hot and they probably want a
heater.
But depends a bit where in theworld you are for that and to
have the heater then you mightbe running off a refittable gas
(19:49):
system or diesel.
But I mean these are like thereal basics you know people want
.
These are like real tick boxthings.
I mean if it's like a dirtbagvan and you're selling for 10
grand like people don't care,but if it's like $40,000, you
just have to have like properventilation system, decent
decinish power and so on.
Yeah, fridge, some kind ofshower, yeah, and heater.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Yeah, so you decided to build out a course.
You had a YouTube channel.
You were getting a lot ofviewers and questions, and so
you built out this course tohelp teach people this process.
And that's super handy, becauseI also think that there's a lot
of information out there andthere's information overload.
And so tell me why you decidedto build this course and what
(20:37):
you want people to get out of it.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
So I mean, before I've been selling an ebook and
the ebook is now into like 14thedition, so it's like way better
than it was the first time Iwrote it, because I just smashed
it out just to like solve theproblem of people asking
questions and to try and drivesome revenue, to be quite honest
.
And now it's in the 14thedition.
We sold tens of thousands ofthem and I just always had this
(20:59):
like sort of feedback over timethat people would like more.
You know, like people askingquestions about things in the
ebook and you're like, well, youknow there's, there's any so
much like information you canwrite down and have big pictures
and diagrams.
So really I set out with likeone mission and the mission was
like how can we make building avan as like as absolutely easy
(21:21):
as possible?
How do we tackle like the big,scary things people have?
So really what we ended up withis okay to do this, we're going
to need to build a van, we'regoing to film everything and
we're going to put in adifferent system so you can
understand these.
Different things show differentlike ways of building things,
different finishes, and thenthat, turned into a course, is
(21:41):
like 170 videos.
It's like it was a monsterproject, cost an absolute
fortune to put together and wehad.
And then we got lots ofmaterials to share with that and
then we should.
We wrote the ebook to help givethat context.
And then we also teamed up withElectro engineer.
He's got his own company butbasically he provides electrical
(22:01):
consultation as part of thecourse is included in the fee
and he'll basically design youyour electrical system.
So you get a diagram and youcan.
You can order the stuff off himor you just order the stuff
independently and then you canbasically just follow the
instructions and you know besafe.
You know it's like all correct.
It's like correct for youralternator if you're ending it.
It's like correct foreverything's going to work like
(22:23):
perfectly and it will be and itwill be safe.
So it's like tick that box.
And then we have a communitywhere basically I talk to people
in the community literallyevery day and they're just like
asking questions, looking foradvice or sharing things and
basically it's just trying tolike they're not, make them,
make people feel like they'renot alone, they can access like
quick information.
(22:44):
When they're like stuck, thenit's like show them every single
process in high detail so theycan like watch and do and watch
and do and then, yes, solve thatelectrical problem.
So that's what we set out to doand I'm just know I'm super
happy with all.
People are on the course, seemvery happy with result, which is
great.
So, yeah, I hope that answersthe question.
(23:04):
Yeah, that's really cool becauseI feel like a lot of people are
worried about the electricalsystem, especially if they're
not an electrician, and there'sso much info out there and I'm
not convinced it's all accurateand so, yeah, that's kind of
there is a problem in like vanlife and like, in a way, the
first time I built out of vanand in the book this is like
(23:25):
quite a while ago, so there justwasn't that much information,
but like that was the first banI built.
Now I do have like a technicalbackground or industrial design,
but you know there's a lot ofpeople who become influencers in
van life and they built one vanand one van only.
They probably followed someoneelse's information and now they
like need to give advice becausethey want to sell product or
(23:46):
affiliate stuff.
So you end up with this likeweird merry go round of like
information and like weirdinformation or like over
conversation for things likethey're doing like stuff you
haven't really need to do, butthat's what they think and
that's what they sell.
So you end up with this areally confusing world of
information.
So that was the thing it's like.
You know, I've got a lot ofexperience in the last like 10
(24:07):
years of bands found buildingand I can just put that all in
one place and then it's justlike, don't worry about all of
that stuff, this will work andjust follow it and it will work.
You know, I have like 10 yearsof owning bands, you know, and
it's worked, it's fine.
And I think it's just takesthat endless research out of it.
People talk for days of ourinstallation days.
(24:30):
It's yeah, I can't, I can't, Ican't even involve myself in it.
It's like debates aboutinsulation is like, yeah, do
these, they'll work and it'll befine.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
They worry about it.
I think that's great thatyou're taking this concept and
Putting it in steps and ordersand kind of simplifying it for
people, because it isoverwhelming, especially if
someone's never built a van, andso if someone has like no
building experience at all, doyou think they can build out a
van, or do you recommend theytake a class and get some
experience?
Or what kind of skill level Dopeople need to build a van?
Speaker 2 (25:03):
So, so in general, like it I've said this for a
long time but like I reallyreally believe like anyone,
anyone can build out a van Likeit's nothing in.
Building a van is like so likedomain specific that you can't
figure it out or do it.
It's like everything in a van.
It's quite small, you know.
It's not like building a house.
The like, the genuinely like.
(25:25):
You screw something up, you canundo it.
It doesn't cost enormousamounts unless you, you know,
really made some tragic mistake.
So and the thing is, it's likethat's my belief, but it
believes backed up by justseeing people who do it and do
it and do it.
I've met personally on the roada lot of people who, like,
followed my e-book or the peoplegoing through the course and
(25:45):
it's like this, almost like thisreally nice connective,
universal experiences peoplehave, because they're like you
know, when I started do this,people were just like, yeah, I
don't think, like you know, theylike doubting them or they
really doubt in themselves, butthey just like, keep at it, they
learn the things and thenthey're like suddenly like
comfortable using a jigsaw and adrill and like they figured out
(26:05):
how to do Pre-drill and screwsand all these things which, like
you know, someone who's beenbuilding for a long time just
takes for granted.
But, like, coming back to basics, like you know, just how do you
use a tool, like we, like, wehave a whole module in the
course how to use the basictools, what they are, what the
features do, because it's notobvious and and but this, yeah.
So this experience I Seen again, again, as they go through this
(26:27):
process and they've built thisthing and it might not be the
most perfect Cabinetry, for sure, and like, but it's a, it's a
good looking man, it looks good,it does the job, everything
works.
They're like super proud, it'slike being a transformative
experience for them.
And you know, and they justrealized, like, yeah, I could do
more.
You know, they've, they've gonefrom like so someone who
(26:49):
thought they could not put up ashelf, now they've built a van
and I think it's like, once theylike buy the van, they pull the
trigger and they go on thatjourney and at the end of it,
they've, they've changed,they've, they've learned
something about themselves,about what they can do, which
maybe like, isn't it?
But they couldn't believe itbefore.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Yeah, that's a really interesting point because I
think there's so many vans onthe market that you can just go
buy and they're already built.
But I'm sure it's a differentbecause we're building out a
sprinter and luckily, you know,my partner Tom has build
experience I don't, but it is agood feeling that you complete
these components and they'rehere and you're using on and
living in it and you designed it, and it is a really good
feeling compared to just buyingsomething off a lot, and so I
(27:29):
think that's cool, that you'veseen that, and it's a lot
cheaper.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
You know, hey, that's the thing I mean.
Some people on my course andthey were like I went to this,
like van build show, likethey're looking at, like the
bands you can buy off the shelf,or like custom builds and
they're just like Reallyexpensive.
I mean, if it's like you know,like a commercial van, they got
big markup and often like thematerials and things can not so
be the greatest.
(27:52):
But then if it's like a custombuild, then it's like High, high
cost labor, because skill,highly skilled labor, and it's
like complex and and and it'slike either way it's expensive.
So you can and then you're notgonna like get your custom
builder with like a slightlyolder van and ask them to build
it out and it'll cost youenormous amount of money because
you wouldn't get the money backbecause the van's too old.
(28:14):
So I think for a lot of peopleit's like the, it's like the
nice, a financial choice, it'slike the sensible financial
choice, um, but also, if you dodo it yourself, then does open
the door for the cereal cost,van life, um, where you can
basically do this and it'll cost, cost you nothing in the long
run.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Yeah, that's true, because if you buy a 200,000 or
300,000 dollar custom build,there's no way you're gonna
recoup your money like at all.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
I'm and it's insane.
Like I mean, I didn't know,maybe I'm just like a cheap or
something, but like for me it'slike do you think 200, 300,000
dollars on like a van?
Honestly, my house cost like Ididn't in dollars like 170 and I
did entire innovation withinthat budget and it's a beautiful
house.
You know it's like for a van,well, just to get on the holiday
(29:02):
or like go on a camping trip, Ididn't know, and like that sort
of money.
You're like wow, I didn't know,maybe if you've got tons of
money, cool.
But like, yeah, but above wasmy mind.
Hello.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Yeah, I know I do see some of these very expensive
builds going on over here and Ijust finished traveling in
Europe and I'm not sure I didn'tsee those really crazy
expensive fans over there.
Is it more of a thing, do youthink, over here in the States
than than where you are?
Speaker 2 (29:30):
I think everything like we'll just get a bit more
amped up in the States becauselike partly there's like More
people with like tons of cash,um, maybe there's like a more of
a culture for van life, somaybe that like attracts more,
more, more money.
Um, you do get like big,expensive rigs in in Europe, but
(29:51):
I'm sure not to the extent likein california or somewhere like
that, where you know there'slike tons of people who just
like Ah yeah, I just dropped 300grand on a van to go away for a
weekend or go to burning man orsomething you know it's.
There's definitely less of thatin in europe and and depending,
yeah, you know there arewealthy parts of Europe, but
it's not the same.
Yeah, not the same cool.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
So your course goes through, like you were saying,
like every comp, every part ofof a van build, and you built a
van from scratch in the course,so someone can literally just
kind of follow along with theentire thing.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's super cool, so um so,yeah, exactly, there's, that's,
that's, that's, that's reallythe Like, the high-level way to
aim that you can.
I have people who finish thevan already and they're just
like, yeah, I just go in, Iwatch it, I make some notes, I
go out, I build, I go back andthey just repeat.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Great.
And then you talked about theelectrical consultation a little
bit.
I just want to touch on thatlittle more because I just know
that's Many people's pain points.
So Someone, will you get aphone call or a video call with
with the engineer that helpsdesign something for your
specific needs?
Is that how that works?
Speaker 2 (30:57):
They, yeah, I mean.
But well, the way we do in thecourse is people fill out a bit
of a survey of kind of likeRoughly what their needs, so we
get them to think about whatthey want and their needs first,
um, and then they have like aone-hour consultation with with
tom.
He's an amazing, off-grid, tonsof experience electrical
engineer and he's like supercool, super friendly and he'll
just like go through it.
Maybe he were like give yousome advice of maybe like where
(31:20):
some of your expectations arerealistic, or or maybe things
you can just rethink about.
But in general, who like takethose, those needs, the things
you want, and he'll design yoursystem and you'll get like a
full electronic schematic and ifyou want, you can buy this
stuff through him and you justbasically get every single down
to the lugs and cables and wires, everything a long go and you
just assemble it.
(31:41):
That that takes like all thepain.
All the pain.
And the other thing is becauseyou could buy in all of the like
their small components from areptile supplier, because if you
buy stuff on Amazon sometimesit's like these Chinese things
they're a bit too lightweightfor the actual like.
They look the same if you don'tknow what you're looking at,
but it's, it's not.
You know it's too lightweightfor the current, you put them
through it, things of that.
So so you just know you'regetting the right stuff and you
(32:03):
can be confident that you'reputting in a system that isn't
gonna catch fire.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Wow, yeah, that's an an incredible value add to what
people can get with your course.
So that's, that seems fantastic.
It's so cool, yeah, so you havea webinar, you know, a free
webinar about how to live thevan life at zero cost, where you
can go even more In depth intothis.
And then you also have thecourse.
It's for sale, and so Anythingelse people need to know about
(32:30):
your offerings I'll put thelinks, of course, to find you in
the show notes, but, yeah,anything else it's genuinely, I
would say, if you, if you'rethinking about van life and and
it's like something on thehorizon You're kind of really
starting to think about it watchthe webinar.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
It's it tastes you through.
It's obviously like I'm notgonna lie, it's it was so
selling a course and we got anice discount for you at the end
of that that webinar.
If you watch the webinar, butit takes you through everything
you need to really know or thinkabout.
If you want to like go towardslike zero cost or Proper van
life, like how to think aboutthe market, how to assess it,
how to understand you know whatit is like for you, where you
(33:06):
are in the world, what featuresto do, this balance between your
Capability and and the priceproposition, the golden rule,
all these things we sort oftouched on lightly and it would
just basically fill you in withall of that.
So, if you're thinking about itlike, it doesn't sell you
anything, you don't have to buyanything.
It's completely free.
So, yeah, I would just reallyrecommend anyone who's thinking
(33:26):
of doing the van just watch thewebinar.
It will give you thoughts whichare valuable.
I Spend a lot of time hardlearning those, hard learning
those thoughts, and so I couldshare that with some some
authority.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Yeah, oh for sure, and that's a fantastic resource
in itself.
And you also have your YouTubechannel still, if people just
want to learn as well.
So that's just Nate Murphy onYouTube.
Yeah, that's right, yeah, yeah,very cool, awesome.
Well, it's so exciting that youhave all these offerings now.
I you know I've heard about youon on YouTube, but to have this
tangible course that people canactually walk through with
(34:00):
their Own pace and ask youquestions, that seems super cool
.
So, yeah, I'm so glad that youwere able to come talk about
that.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
We enjoyed it so nice to sort of have a sort of
face-to-face thing.
It's kind of funny you in thevan and I'm in a house.
It should be the other wayaround it's fine.
But I don't really appreciateit.
And yeah, thank you so much forletting me come on your podcast
.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Yeah, fantastic, and I'll put all your links in the
show notes.
People can find you and followyou and I'm really excited to go
check out the Course and alsolook at some of your van builds
again.
So thank you so much forjoining me and, yeah, have a
wonderful day.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Thank you, chris, all right, see you later.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Remember to head on down to the show notes and sign
up for Nate Murphy's webinar onzero cost van life, and if
you're ready to get buildingright now, I'll also add a link
to his course, which includesstep-by-step tutorials on
building a van, plus anelectrical Consultation and help
and access to Nate and a largercommunity a really good deal,
if you ask me.
Well, thanks so much forlistening to this episode of the
(34:56):
wayward home podcast and I'llsee you next time.
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