December 27, 2023 • 36 mins
In this episode of The Wayward Home podcast, host Kristin Hanes interviews Eddie from the Vanabond Tales blog about his experience transitioning from van life to sailboat life.
Eddie and his wife Kelly started out in van life, traveling through South America in a van they purchased, then building out their own van to continue adventures in Mexico. When Covid hit, they got stuck in Australia and decided to check sailboat living off their bucket list.
They ended up falling in love with sail life, purchasing a 29-foot boat in Croatia. Eddie shares the learning curve of sailing as beginners, having to dock repeatedly for 10 days straight to get the hang of maneuvering their new boat.
Kristin and Eddie compare notes on the differences between van life and sail life - the sense of space, costs, finding community, and facing the elements. They agree both lifestyles have their pros and cons, and complement each other well.
Eddie has continued doing some van trips between sailing seasons. He offers advice for van lifers considering switching to sailboats - overcoming fears around storms, seasickness, and learning to sail.
Kristin and Eddie remark on how rewarding it is to be self-sufficient and explore beautiful, remote areas by wind power. Listen in and be inspired to explore the world, whether on the roads or on the waves.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm currently part of the Wayward Home Podcast, where
I work on my online businessfor my camper van and to bring
you tips interviews and storiesfrom the road and on the water.
And just across the way isanother couple with both a
camper van and a sailboat.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I found this common.
There are many crossovers andsimilarities and differences
between the two lifestyles.
That's what we're chattingabout today on the Wayward Home
Podcast.
Let's go.
Welcome to the Wayward HomePodcast.
All about van life, boat lifeand nomadic living.
We'll bring you tips,interviews and stories from the
road and on the water.
Now here's your host, kristenHaynes.
Hey there, I'm Kristen Hayneswith the WaywardHomecom, and my
(00:33):
partner, tom and I live half theyear in our camper van and half
on our sailboat in Mexico.
We've been living tiny since2016, and I hope to inspire you
to try something different too.
Well, the crossover between vanlife and boat life has a lot of
similarities and differences.
Many sailors have camper vans,truck campers or even RVs.
They go travel on land when theweather is too hot or
uncomfortable for the sailboat,and vice versa.
(00:56):
Today I'm talking with Eddie,author and creator of the Vanna
Bonn Tales blog.
He and his wife Kelly spendtime in both a camper van and on
a sailboat, but they sail overin the Mediterranean while I
stay here in Mexico.
So let's get into it and learnabout the differences and
similarities between these twolifestyles.
Who knows, maybe you'll decideto become a sailor one day too,
(01:16):
right, eddie?
Thanks so much for joining theWayward Home Podcast.
Super excited to have you here.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Really excited to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Cool.
So, yeah, I'm excited to meetyet another van lifer and sailor
.
You know this is something I'mseeing more and more often, but
also I think there's a lot ofcuriosity and back and forth
between these two lifestyles.
So let's just go back to thebeginning with you.
You started out in vans, sojust tell me a little bit about
your whole experience with thevan life.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Sure, so we I mean, I met my wife in 2016 and a
couple of years later we boughtour first van and we flew from
Europe to South America and webought a van for our first van
life adventure and we caught thebug.
We did South America for sevenmonths and then after that we
(02:06):
built our own van and took thatin Mexico and had planned to do
the whole of Central and SouthAmerica and that one.
But in 2020, we parked that vanin Mexico to fly home to my
home in Australia, and when wedid, in February, they closed
the borders.
So we were stuck in Australiaand we bought another van there
and we were driving aroundAustralia for two years waiting
(02:28):
for the borders to open, becauseAustralia had pretty strict
lockdown going on.
And as we were doing that, wewere sort of watching our I mean
, in our own minds, we werewatching our time run out on all
these adventures or thesethings we'd planned to do, and
one of the things on our bucketlist had always been to buy a
boat.
So as soon as the bordersopened, we took our opportunity
(02:51):
to fly to Europe and buy a boatin Croatia, and we've just
wrapped up our second season onthe boat and since then I've
actually gone back and done acouple of van life trips.
So yeah, and I think I wasthinking towards the end of our
third van, I might be over thislifestyle.
And then when we started theboat, I was like, oh well, this
(03:12):
is fabulous, this is fantastic.
It's so much better than vanlife in a lot of ways.
And it's funny, having goneback into the van recently in
the winter in Europe, I'mstarting to come back around to
van life again after a littlebreak, so it's fun.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Isn't that funny.
That kind of describes myexperience exactly, because we
go in the sailboat for like fivemonths sometimes and I'm like,
oh, I just wanna I love it.
And then I'm like I need abreak, I wanna go do something
else.
I wanna be on land and haveaccessibility to bicycling and
hiking and stuff.
So I'm happy to be in the van.
And then I'm like, oh my gosh,I need to get back in the boat.
So I think the two are justreally compliment each other so
(03:50):
wonderfully.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
So Absolutely yeah, I think that's what I just found
out.
I thought, yeah, how did you,when you first started sailing,
did you think it was better orworse, or the same?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah, what's interesting is I started out
with the boat.
I was laid off and got on theboat and it was a way to save
money on rent in San Francisco,so I did the sailing thing,
first and then was like oh it'dbe really cool if we had a van.
So it did kind of opposite ofyou.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
So it was very different.
But the sailboat, I feel likeyou just get to more remote,
beautiful areas of nature andthere's more aspects of
self-reliance, so I'm curious,like what you thought about it,
transitioning from the van tothe boat.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Yeah, I just the same .
I mean, yeah, every day maybenot every day, but more often
than in the van you're waking upin some beautiful isolated cove
with nobody to share it with,rather than maybe a Walmart or a
gas station.
So that's a huge difference andinitially it's very kind of
(04:53):
captivating and, oh, this isamazing and unbeatable.
And you're waking up on thewater.
I think that's another reallyspecial thing.
And so, yeah, my initialfeeling was like, oh, this is
better than van life.
I think I prefer this.
And, yeah, it wasn't.
Until I got back in the van, Iwas like, oh, that's right,
boats can't go up mountains andboats can't go inland and boats
(05:16):
can't see all these sort of andthey can't travel as fast or as
fast.
So there are all these thingsyou forget about that the van
has advantages over.
But yeah, as you say, that'sthose really remote places and
waking up in a different coveevery day.
That's pretty special.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
It is and that's funny.
You said that about the speedbecause our boat, you know it's
a sailboat.
It goes like if we're lucky itgoes seven knots, and that's if
we're lucky.
It likes to ride around fiveknots and for people who don't
understand that that's like asfast as someone can run really
fast.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Right, yeah, so we're even swaller and slower.
We're even swaller and slower.
We're lucky to get five knots.
So, yeah, I wear a fast walk.
Some of our friends are askingus yesterday like, oh, if we
were in this part of Europe andyou're in that part of Europe,
how long would it take you toget there?
And we're like I know it'ssmall enough, but it'd be like
walking there, it'd be a reallylong time.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Yeah, I think people forget about that, that we're
very slow and it's such adifferent feeling being on a
boat and one cool thing about itis that you're more on the
speed while the dolphins arefaster, but they do come up in
the whales and I'm curious, didyou see that in where you were
sailing as well, the sea life?
Because I know we sail inreally different parts of the
world.
You're in the sea of Cortez.
You're in Europe.
What did you see out there?
Speaker 1 (06:26):
The Adriatic is famously not super hospitable to
marine life.
It's not, I don't think it'svery nutrient rich and it's been
fished very heavily, butthey're still dolphins, so you
still get the dolphin swimmingwith you.
But other than that, we didn'tsee so much.
We saw a couple of turtles, acouple of larger fish jumping,
(06:49):
but, yeah, maybe not asspectacular as Mexico, I'm
guessing.
But we haven't done Mexico yet,so I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah, very true.
And another thing I waswondering because I noticed that
when I'm on the boat, one ofthe things that makes me want to
get back to the van issometimes some of the motion and
the weather and having to sailthe overnights.
I don't know if you guys had todo that, but sometimes when
we're just being thrown aroundthe sea of Cortez is known for
some steep, chop sometimes andclose together waves and it can
be really nasty, and so I'm likeI want to get in the van.
(07:19):
Give me a stable bed.
Did you experience that sort ofrolly nature of your sailboat?
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Lately, yeah, so that I mean they're apart.
Sometimes in van life it can bescary, especially driving
somewhere in a dangerous area ora dangerous country.
But I think, yeah, the gettingcaught out in a storm on anchor
and being up all night worriedthat you're going to pull off
your anchor and drift off intothe rocks, you don't get that.
(07:47):
Mainly, you don't get thatlevel of sort of adrenaline in
van life.
So a couple of nights in thatand you're sort of wondering why
the hell you're doing this.
But yeah, I think that's verytrue.
It's a level of stress thatdoesn't usually come with van
life.
It often comes with a tail saillife.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Yeah, I remember one time we were sailing up the
coast of Baja and there's acertain mountain range area that
gets really high winds andunfortunately in the middle of
the night, and they're calledcatabatic winds.
So we're sailing and you know,tom is asleep and I'm on watch
and suddenly the boat's beinglike blown over at this steep
angle and he was sleeping on thecabinetry and he's like why am
I asleep on the cabinetry?
(08:26):
So he woke up and we're gettingblasted by like 40 to 50 knot
winds and it was like 2 am andit just went like all night and
I was like, why am I doing this?
But it's not like.
That happens very often.
But sailing, you know, you canget really hit by some weird
stuff.
That, you're right, doesn'thappen in the van.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, I mean, and so yeah, I think most sailors have
spent many, much time at sea.
No, no about the catabatics.
So we get it.
In Montenegro, they've gotthese the tall mountains as well
, and they don't predict.
It is sort of unpredictable,because it's just wind falling
off the side of a mountain andyeah, it just blows, blows it's
guts out for hours on end andthat, yeah, and I think even now
(09:05):
, as I'm saying it out loud,I've sort of become a little bit
immune to it, because when Isay it out loud that sounds like
something pretty extreme, butfor me it's like, oh, it's just
part of just part of sailing now.
But I think if you told someonethat was thinking about going
from van life to sail life, thatmight be a little bit
off-putting.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yes, and that's a reason I like to mention it,
because I do get questions fromvan life as in they're like oh,
I'm thinking about like going tothe sailboat, and I think it
often seems very romantic fromwhat people see like on is like
anything in life.
You know, what you see insocial media or what you might
imagine is way different thanhow it is.
And so I tell them like, yeah,it feels like it can be way more
dangerous than being in the van.
(09:43):
Although the van, you can havehead on collisions which end up
being very bad.
So, yeah, that might be evenworse.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
They're probably similar in terms of risk, but
it's not the feeling you getwhen you're driving 100
kilometers down the highway.
It's not the same as being upin the middle of the night
trying to survive one of thosegusts out of nowhere.
I feel like it feels a lotworse yeah very true.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
And so how did you guys do in terms of like?
So this is your first boat, solike learning to sail, learning
the boat systems, what was allthat like for you?
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yeah, I think that's a good question because I think
that's probably the other thing,isn't it?
If you're coming from ends tothe sailboats and you don't have
a lot of experience, thelearning curve is probably the
next scariest thing, probablythe scariest thing because I
wasn't even thinking about, Ididn't know enough to know about
catabatic winds or storms toworry about.
But the learning curve wascertainly a worry I've actually
(10:38):
had when I was a kid.
I grew up sailing diggies, so Iknew the principles of sailing
and it was just about sort ofscaling up, I guess, to a bigger
boat.
What we did is we hired acouple of guys, a couple of
brothers in Croatia to.
We bought the boat and then wehired these guys to come and
board our boat and show us howit worked.
(11:00):
And they said, oh, we couldprobably get you set up for
sailing in about 10 days.
And we said it would be great,we'll be sailing from island to
island, having just an awesometime.
And they're like listen, guys,I think we're mostly just going
to be motoring in and out of thedock because it turns out, most
of what you need to know to getgoing is just docking the boat.
(11:20):
So for 10 days.
We were just practicing beingable to get in and off, on and
off the dock and on and off theanchor and then sort of learn to
hoist the sail and put down thesail.
But that's essentially thestuff.
You can slowly learn as you go.
But knowing how to get the boatinto harbor and out without
(11:42):
damaging any other boats is apretty essential skill.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yeah, that's true and that's something I haven't
personally learned, because mypartner, tom, has had his first
sailboat in like 2001 and he'sthe main helmsman and captain
and he docks the boat.
But that's something I feellike I need to learn.
But it is like a 41 foot boatwith like a six foot bow sprit
that hangs way out, so it's 47overall.
And then so you have this longpeople who don't know what a bow
(12:08):
sprit is, this long piece ofwood that's like six feet off of
the boat that you have tomaneuver in Like a spear, almost
waiting to punch us havesomeone else's boat.
Yeah, so I have fears like I candrive the boat when we're out
at sea.
You know, I know how to put thesails up and take them down,
but the docking thing, man,that's scary.
So did you both learn how todock when you were doing these
lessons?
Speaker 1 (12:28):
We yeah, we both learned.
I've become the default dockerat this stage, but we both
learned at the time.
But we have an advantage overyour boat.
We have a tiny weed 29 footboat without a bow sprit so, and
you know also, the previousowner had put a bow thruster on
this little boat, so we'rehighly maneuverable.
If we make a mistake, we cancorrect.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
yeah, Very true, ours does not like to pivot or turn
its nose or back up pivot, it'sjust.
It's a very it's like driving agigantic private airplane where
it's real slow to take anychanges, so that's something
people have to.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Yeah, I think that's something you don't realize.
Do you Like when you cut, whenyou it's very?
Car is very responsive.
A boat is very unresponsive.
You have to learn about howlong it takes to bring the front
around using a rudder that's atthe back, and it can be a
little bit of a learning curve,I think.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Totally so.
Yeah, tell me a little moreabout the.
You said it was the AdriaticSea, correct?
Like what does that look like?
Where exactly is it for peopleover on this side of the pond
that don't know geography verywell like me, I would think
maybe Croatia or Greece, buttell me a little more about the
sailing grounds you were in.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
The Adriatic is that little arm of the Mediterranean
that goes up in between Croatiaand the inside of Italy, so it's
this beautiful little protectedsea.
I love that you've gotMontenegro, albania, a little
bit of Greece and then, on theother side, italy.
We're actually a little bit ofSlovenia at the top as well but
it's this very narrow, veryprotected stretch of water which
(13:59):
in the middle of it, nearCroatia especially, you have a
lot of islands.
So a lot of protection, verypredictable wind patterned and
almost zero tide and zero reef.
So, as opposed to learn how tosail, it's up there with the
best and obviously it'sextremely beautiful.
(14:20):
So you've got really like reallylovely crystal clear water, no
waves, nothing like that, andsome amazing places to visit
along Croatia all those oldAsian towns, split and Shibonec,
and Dubrovnik and everythinglike that.
So it's perfect in that sense.
The only downside would be theamount of sailors there, and
(14:43):
especially the amount of sailorsthat are just there for a week
or two.
So it's a really popular placefor people to come and rent a
boat for a week or two.
How good they are at sailing isan absolute.
That could be great.
It could be sailors that havesailed all their lives and just
don't own their boat and they'recoming for a week holiday or
they could be begin, and sothat's the biggest challenge
(15:05):
being surrounded by people whereyou're not 100% sure how to use
their boat.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
That's really interesting, and so when you go
out to those islands, do youfind like secluded coves, or are
you always sharing coves withother people?
Speaker 1 (15:18):
No, absolutely.
There's just so much coastline.
I think if you added up all thecoastline, including all the
islands in Croatia, it's reallyremarkable how much space there
is, and as somebody who has alot of time to spend out there,
you can pick and choose.
Everybody else has to go to thenumber one beaches and the
(15:38):
number one spots.
So they're all going to va,they're all going to Split,
they're all going to thesereally famous and the most
beautiful places in Croatia, andwe're fully aware that that's
not necessarily.
It's much more beautiful tokeep going a couple of coves
around and find somewherecompletely to ourselves and
fight over very crowded sailinggrounds.
So it's very easy to avoid thecrowds, but you have to be
(16:04):
prepared to avoid them, but itis very easy.
There are lots of cool placesto check out.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Cool, that sounds like a really fun place to sail.
I knew some other people thathad a sailboat but they were
sailing all around the med andthey were saying that the winds
and the weather patterns arekind of crazy in other areas.
So that's good to know thatthat sea is a little more gentle
.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Yeah, yeah.
So if you keep going around andyou get into the Cyclades,
where you know Mekinos andTantorini and all that it's, you
can tell just by the geography.
So the mountain, even theislands in the Ionian, on this,
on the same side as the Adriatic, they're in Greece, they're all
covered in pine trees andthey're all lush and green.
Get around in the Cyclades andit's all those very bare rocky
(16:46):
islands, which gives you a bitof a clue that you know, it's
very windy a lot of the time, sowe haven't gone around there
yet.
We hope to in the future.
But where we've been has beenreally nice to.
It still gets windy, but moreoften than not it's predictable
and you can find somewherethat's going to be a little bit
protected and calm.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Very cool, and was there anything that like
surprised you when you firstwent to sailboat life after
doing so many different vehicleson land?
Speaker 1 (17:13):
I guess I wasn't surprised because I didn't know
what to expect.
So I was sort of open toanything.
But it's just.
I mean, just the ample size ofthat sailboat is a nice change.
So when you go from Vans tosailboats, that's sort of people
were saying to me like, oh, howare we going to live on a tiny
sailboat?
I said this is an incredibleamount of space.
(17:36):
We have two bench sheets thatface each other.
We have a separate berth, wehave, you know, a toilet.
It was for me sort of that wasa big change, the amount of
space that we had.
I mean something specific to thearea we were sailing in was how
incredibly difficult it was toget anyone to.
I don't know if it's like thisin Mexico probably not but if
(17:56):
you need to get anything done interms of mechanical work or
fixing the boat, it's very slowuphill process to compel anyone
to help you.
In the part of the med we'vebeen sailing in which was
different to the van, I guessanother difference would be the
cost, which the cost of entry tothe sailing was a little bit
(18:21):
higher to get the same.
I mean, obviously you can dovan life extremely cheaply or
van life in a very expensivefashion.
You can do boat life in asimilar way, but I feel like
even the lower level starts alittle bit higher in boat life.
So we had a very entry levelboat and we spent about 20,000
euro on it.
And we had a very entry levelvan and we spent less than half
(18:44):
of that on it.
So that's what we noticed aboutthe cost.
And then, once you're actuallysailing, some costs are higher
while some costs are lower.
Obviously, gas we spend nothingon gas maybe $25 a week on a
bad week when there's been nowind, but then you spend a lot
more money to stay in an arenathan you would to stay in a
(19:06):
campsite with the van.
So the cost has just been sortof a redivision.
I think we spent a little bitmore on the boat, but not a huge
amount more.
And then, yeah, those are thebig differences.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Yeah, I can totally relate to all of those, which is
interesting because when wespent a lot of time in the van
and we go on the boat, it feelsgigantic.
I'm like wow.
I have like rooms, I have thetoilet and the shower, I have
like an oven on my boat and I'mlike, wow, an outdoor cockpit to
sit in.
It just feels gigantic and mostpeople would not think that
sailboat is gigantic.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
I think that's probably a unique perspective
that you get if you go from vanto boat.
Most people would think you gotyour downsizing to get on the
boat, whereas if you're comingfrom the van you're thinking,
wow, this is fabulous.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
I know, I think that's so funny.
And then another interestingpart is during our interview.
Right now we're actually in aboatyard in Mexico and it is
hard to find people to work onyour boat.
This is actually a DIY boatyardand one of the only ones we've
heard of in Mexico and incertain parts of the world.
Actually, I heard that there'sone couple here that they've
been back and forth to the SouthPacific many times and they
(20:12):
intentionally came all the wayup here so they could work on
their boat at an affordableprice, because you can do all
your own work.
It's only like 250 bucks amonth and you can have like I
have my van here, I have my boathere, you have electricity,
bathrooms, showers I mean it haseverything and you can walk to
town and the beach.
So people come here fromeverywhere just to work on their
$250 a month to keep the boatthere.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Yes, amazing.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
They pull it out of the water, you store it on the
hard when you're not here, andso it's very safe.
It's out of the hurricane zone,and so that's why a lot of
people come here, and so youmeet a lot of interesting
cruisers from around the worldwho've come here, and a lot of
young people too, because it'sreally expensive to get someone
to work on your boat.
If you can find someone, If youcan find.
Yes, and so the best way to savemoney is to do your own stuff,
(20:58):
and that's what everyone here isdoing.
So there's that camaraderieassociated with it.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
So is there a nice community of liveaboard there in
the off season or working ontheir boat.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Uh-huh, yeah, right now there's quite a few people
here and we had a party lastweekend for Christmas tamales
and stuff, and so that sense ofcommunity is the only thing that
keeps me sane around here,because otherwise being in a
boat yard is not super fun.
But it is neat to have thecommunity around here and
everyone's hanging out and wehave the same goals, same
(21:27):
mindset, and so it's really kindof a special, unique
opportunity.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Can I ask you what have you found the difference
between community living in avan versus living in a boat?
Do you find it easier or harderto meet people along the way?
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Yeah, what's interesting is I find the
sailboat actually way easier tofind community.
I'll be curious what you'll sayafter this, because when we go
out to these different coves andplaces in Mexico, there's just
a few other boats there and youtend to meet people.
Like you know, you're dingingaround, you meet people and
we've met so many people here inthis boat yard that then go
down into the sea of Cortez thatwe recognize them and see them
(22:02):
out there and then we hang outwith them and so we're always
making friends hanging out withpeople and in the van life I
have actually met like nobody,because we also go way out
boondocking in the United Stateson the public lands, way far
from people, and so we're notnecessarily meeting people or
attending gatherings.
So we haven't really met anyonein the van life.
(22:23):
So I'm curious, like what doyou think about that?
Have you noticed a difference?
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Yeah, not so much of a difference, because it turns
out we're just loners in bothlife styles and it seems like I
think we had this vision when weset off on our first van life
that we would be sitting aroundcampfires with people every
night.
And then on that first trip weactually found it pretty
surprising how few people thatwe met along the way, like we
certainly would meet people fromtime to time, but it wasn't the
(22:52):
10 van convoy we might haveimagined at the start.
And then in life has sort offollowed that trajectory a
little bit as well.
So we've met a few people alongthe way and hung out with them
for a night and then go ourseparate ways.
But once again, in generalwe've been a little bit maybe
(23:14):
slack in making friends alongthe way.
But I wonder if it's Notice aswell, in the place that we're
sailing it's a lot of retirees,which is fine.
We've spent time hanging outwith retirees but we don't have
as much in common with a lot ofthe people in the areas that
we're sailing, which seems to bea different bit of a
(23:37):
generational gap.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Yeah, and that's interesting.
There are a lot of retireeshere, but there's also a lot of
young people here in the Sea ofCortez and in the boatyard, A
lot of people like in their 30sand 40s, and there's even a guy
here who was 26.
I'm like 26, where'd that comefrom?
That seemed really young, buthe's working on his boat.
He lives on his boat, and soyou do have more of a wide age
range here.
(23:59):
And then the Sea of Cortezitself is a certain special area
where kind of the same peoplego back every year, and a lot of
them are permanent liveaboard,and so, season after season,
you're running into these samepeople and then, you end up
doing little sail convoys withthem, which is fun, and a lot of
them travel anchor to anchorageall year and they're really
(24:20):
great friends and they're young,so it's really interesting to
find those little pockets ofpeople of varying ages here, so
that's something that's kind ofunique.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Where it sounds like also in your area there's a lot
of people on holiday comingthrough renting boats and you
don't really see that here 100%Okay, yeah, probably a lot more
people there on holidays, eithershort term because they already
have a boat there, or red toolsare very popular, which is, I
guess, another thing.
(24:49):
A lot of people are transient,so you're less likely to keep up
with them.
Do you feel that the lifestyleis growing and more people
turning up at this boatyard yearon year?
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Oh yeah, this boatyard had their busiest year
ever.
This year I think they saidthey stored about 180 boats and
just a few years when they werestarting out.
It was hardly any.
I think we were last herealmost three years ago and I've
even noticed they're justpacking them in.
People are storing boats andthere's even way more people in
the sea, especially because ofStarlink, the availability of
(25:21):
internet.
And so now you have more andmore remote workers and people
spending more time at seainstead of going back to the US
to work, and so we are seeingthose getting way more crowded
here, and I don't know if that'sthe same for you guys with
Starlink, because you said mostpeople are retirees anyway, so
it might not make a difference.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
No, but that's not.
We can notice that there arepeople, more and more people,
that are working from the roadin general, especially post
COVID, where more opportunitiesfor remote work sort of came up
and people started to do thissort of thing.
We're definitely noticing itboth in van life and in sail
life more young people that areworking, because I think that's
(26:01):
a big difference, isn't it?
In the past, your employmentopportunities were severely
limited if you decided to livepermanently in the van or
permanently on the boat, whereasnow there's a lot of jobs that
you can do on the go.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yeah, very true.
And there's another interestingpart of sail life that we
haven't talked about yet is justthe fact that we can get
propelled by the wind is justsuch a special feeling that
we're just out there, we're inthe elements.
I feel like a sailboat is almostpart of the elements.
It's like we're justself-sustaining.
It feels like a living beingactually to me when we have the
sails up and it's kind ofdancing along and we can make
(26:37):
our own water.
We have a water maker, we havetons of food, we can catch fish.
It just feels like a reallyself-sustainable lifestyle,
which is something I love.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Undoubtedly, I said before, you don't travel as far
on the sailboat but in a way youdo travel just as far.
You're just seeing more.
I mean just because you're onlygoing 20 nautical miles along.
If you take a whole day to dothat, you see it and you're
seeing a lot more than you wouldif you're just going from point
A to point B on a highway toarrive somewhere different.
So yeah, you don't cover asmuch ground but you just see so
(27:10):
much more.
You see you sort of exploringevery inch of the coast at that
really slow pace.
It's definitely a very specialway to travel.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Yeah, and it feels good to not spend so much money
on diesel because the van man itcosts us a lot sometimes.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Yeah, that's a big plus.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Yeah, budget-wise, I love being in Mexico.
I think my food prices go down,my diesel prices go down.
The living expenses are so low,given that this is just $250 a
month, which is way cheaper thanif you spend money on
campgrounds a few nights, it'sway more expensive, so the
affordable rate is also reallygood.
So that's something that I loveabout this part of the year.
But it gets too hot and then weleave.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Okay, yeah, so once it gets too warm, you have to be
at sea, I guess.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Yeah, well, then we go back to the van and back
north to the northern climate.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Okay, all right.
So this is like a, so youescape the winter to Mexico and
then go back when it starts toget too hot in Mexico.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Exactly that's our travel pattern.
Yeah, so are you guys planningon any like bigger sailboat
trips, or what does that looklike for you guys?
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Yeah.
So, to be honest, when we firstbought the boat, it was that
last hurrah we had this ideathat we would be moving back to
Australia to settle down at somepoint and that, as COVID went
on and on, we are sort ofcrossing things off the list.
Oh well, now we can't go and do.
You know, we wanted to go anddo India and some Central Asia,
and we sort of said, well, wemight not have time for that, we
(28:34):
might not have time to live inPortugal, we might not have time
for this, we might not havetime to do that.
And the only thing left on thelist that we thought well, we
have to do before we go back andsettle down in Australia is we
have to just spend one season ona boat.
You know, halfway to thatseason, I'd say to Kelly oh look
, bad years.
I think we might have to givethis a little bit more time
before we head back to Australia.
(28:55):
And so now, yeah, thetimeline's been extended a
little bit and I don't knowexactly when we'll wrap up
sailing, but at the moment I'vethere's a lot more I want to do
on the boat, so I want to beable to take it out of the
Adriatic and out of theMediterranean and sort of level
up our skills and while we mightnever be ready to do a full
(29:17):
ocean crossing, I'd like totravel a little bit further on
it.
So this season our plan is toupskill and do some sailing
courses and become a little bitmore proficient and then,
looking for the next few years,maybe getting it out into
different parts of Europe andthen ultimately, either in this
(29:37):
boat or another boat, maybegoing into the Bahamas and that
sort of area and exploringsomewhere new.
So yeah, we've got some, we'vegot some plans, and none of them
involved selling, none of theminvolved hanging up the sails
just yet.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Yeah, so the sailboat kind of derailed your settling
down plans for a little longer.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Yeah, it really did.
Really, it's fatter in theworks, a wrench in the works.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Yeah, sailboat can do that to you.
There's something very specialabout it, even though sometimes
I find it antagonizing with thewind and the weather and the
motion.
But then there's so many lovelyparts that I think you well, I
just tend to forget the badparts and I'm like I want to do
that more.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
There's just one nice, you knowone sunny, stale, with nice
wind, which is hard to rememberthose, those catabatic winds
here.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
I know it's hard to remember.
I do love that sailing requiresa certain level of skill and I
feel like it's almost a sport,like more of a sport than just
driving a van which can be,cumbersome and boring, but when
you're sailing and you've gotthe boat going at that perfect
heel and speed and it's justbeautiful and I think there's
nothing better than that.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
That's yeah, there's yeah.
I think that's that's anotherbig draw, isn't it?
That there's always somethingto learn, and the more I mean
where it's obviously justbeginning this sort of journey
and it's where.
So, at the point where, like,the more we learn, the more we
realize how much we don't knowand how much more we have to
develop as sailors.
So, you know, after two seasons, we're still, you know,
(31:05):
building the confidence to evenleave this little area of Europe
, and there's just so much morethat this has got such a big
runway and a far horizon for usto learn and develop as sailors.
I think that is a reallyexciting part, but we might have
thought we were going to go outand conquer sailing in a season
, but looking back, that was aninsane idea.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Totally, and do you guys have any more plans to
continue doing the van life, orhow does that fit into your
overall plan?
Speaker 1 (31:32):
So yeah, I mean, as we spoke about a little bit at
the start, finishing up the vanin Australia is really getting a
bit over it.
I mean, australia is quite adifficult place, quite a
challenging place to travel, andwe were traveling in the least
comfortable van we'd ever we'dever had.
It was a Land Cruiser troopcarrier with a little pop-top
tent, so it was really we wereroughing it quite a lot and
(31:58):
Australia is obviously a prettyfast place to travel.
You know, you're spending a lotof time outside of cities, in
you know, dusty places, andtowards the end of that I was
getting a little bit over it, Ithink.
And then we got onto the boatand I thought, oh, this is it,
this is.
There's no going back from this.
I loved it.
I thought this.
You know, this is way betterthan the van life ever could be.
(32:20):
But having got back in the vanfor a couple of trips just
recently, in the last couple ofmonths, I've fallen back in love
with van life all of a sudden.
And so it's that swings around.
You know, the grass is alwaysgreedy.
You're doing one thing and it'swonderful, and after a little
while you start to miss some ofthe good things about van life.
(32:40):
So getting back and exploringScotland by then and Slovenia by
then and Italy by then in thelast couple of months is just
really, really reconnected withwhy are we, why are we fell in
love with van life in the firstplace.
So I've realized that neitherone's now sale life nor van life
are replaceable.
Well after after finding waysfor them to coexist.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Yes, are you guys thinking?
Speaker 1 (33:02):
as you have.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yeah, exactly, there's a season for one, a
season for another, and so manyplaces to explore.
It's really fun.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Are you guys going to purchase another van, do you
think?
Or just continue with therentals?
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Well, yeah, someday it just we know we're never
planning to do any rigid plansat.
You know it's a constant stateof flux.
But before we left Australia Iwas sketching up my next van.
I thought it might be aco-starter I don't know if you
have them in the States like abus type thing, not a big bus
(33:35):
but a small bus.
And then we got on the boat andthose plans sort of evaporated
or were put on hold for a while.
So no immediate plans to buy anew van, but at some point there
will be another van and I'malways thinking about ideas and
what I need and donating in thatnext van.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah, very cool.
Yeah, it sounds like we have alot in common and experienced
the same things, and hopefullymore people will try saleboat
living if it appeals to them,because it is phenomenal.
It's really a way to get deepinto nature, which I really love
, so it's special.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Yeah, I think there's those things that are scary
about it, but they'resurmountable.
Just by what you get throughthem a couple of times, you
realize they're not so scary andthey're no more risky than
probably driving the van on thehighways.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Very true, Well cool.
It's been so fun talking to youI know that you have a blog and
you have ways for people tofollow you guys, so just tell us
a little bit about that.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Yeah, absolutely so.
We started a blog in 2018 whenwe first started Van Life, and
at the time, we thought we'llalways be doing Van Life, so we
called it the Vanobond Talesinstead of the Vagabond.
We had to call the VanobondTales and then, of course, we
transitioned to sale life, butwe kept the Vanobond Tales blog
(34:57):
alive and now it just covers abroader variety of things, so
still got information wherewe've traveled and information
on vans and Van Life and how toget started, and now we're
starting to write a little bitof stuff about sale life, and
certainly we don't pretend to beexpert sailors, but we can
certainly share something thatwe've learned the stuff we've
(35:18):
been talking about today aboutgetting started and overcoming
some of those initial problemshow much it costs and how to do
it, sort of thing and mostrecently, we started a blog, so
we've started recording some ofour stuff at sea and, just like
the blog was, that's a biglearning curve in and of itself,
(35:39):
and so we've been trying tofigure it out and it's an
ongoing project, but we'rereally enjoying it and I think
we'll continue doing that aslong as we have something to
share.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Very cool and that has the same name as your blog.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Yeah, it does.
So.
The channel is the Van IbonTiles YouTube at the Van Ibon
Tiles.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Very cool.
I'll put everything in the shownotes, of course, so people can
just scroll down and click onstuff.
But I'm on your email list andI enjoy the emails you write, so
thanks for doing this.
And yeah, super fun to chatwith you about our lifestyles.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Absolutely.
Yeah, cool, great to talk toyou too.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Thanks so much for tuning in to another episode of
the Wayward Home Podcast.
Just to let you know, I'm aboutto take a break from the
podcast to focus on some otherthings in my business, such as
getting traffic to my website.
I'd love to stay in touch withyou, though, so make sure you're
signed up for my email list.
That's thewaywardhomecomforward slash subscribe, and
I'll also put that link in theshow notes.
I send out emails often and Ilove hearing from you, so I hope
(36:41):
to see you over there.
Thanks again for listening tothis episode.
I'm currently part of the Wayward Home Podcast, where
I work on my online businessfor my camper van and to bring
you tips interviews and storiesfrom the road and on the water.
And just across the way isanother couple with both a
camper van and a sailboat.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I found this common.
There are many crossovers andsimilarities and differences
between the two lifestyles.
That's what we're chattingabout today on the Wayward Home
Podcast.
Let's go.
Welcome to the Wayward HomePodcast.
All about van life, boat lifeand nomadic living.
We'll bring you tips,interviews and stories from the
road and on the water.
Now here's your host, kristenHaynes.
Hey there, I'm Kristen Hayneswith the WaywardHomecom, and my
(00:33):
partner, tom and I live half theyear in our camper van and half
on our sailboat in Mexico.
We've been living tiny since2016, and I hope to inspire you
to try something different too.
Well, the crossover between vanlife and boat life has a lot of
similarities and differences.
Many sailors have camper vans,truck campers or even RVs.
They go travel on land when theweather is too hot or
uncomfortable for the sailboat,and vice versa.
(00:56):
Today I'm talking with Eddie,author and creator of the Vanna
Bonn Tales blog.
He and his wife Kelly spendtime in both a camper van and on
a sailboat, but they sail overin the Mediterranean while I
stay here in Mexico.
So let's get into it and learnabout the differences and
similarities between these twolifestyles.
Who knows, maybe you'll decideto become a sailor one day too,
(01:16):
right, eddie?
Thanks so much for joining theWayward Home Podcast.
Super excited to have you here.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Really excited to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Cool.
So, yeah, I'm excited to meetyet another van lifer and sailor
.
You know this is something I'mseeing more and more often, but
also I think there's a lot ofcuriosity and back and forth
between these two lifestyles.
So let's just go back to thebeginning with you.
You started out in vans, sojust tell me a little bit about
your whole experience with thevan life.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Sure, so we I mean, I met my wife in 2016 and a
couple of years later we boughtour first van and we flew from
Europe to South America and webought a van for our first van
life adventure and we caught thebug.
We did South America for sevenmonths and then after that we
(02:06):
built our own van and took thatin Mexico and had planned to do
the whole of Central and SouthAmerica and that one.
But in 2020, we parked that vanin Mexico to fly home to my
home in Australia, and when wedid, in February, they closed
the borders.
So we were stuck in Australiaand we bought another van there
and we were driving aroundAustralia for two years waiting
(02:28):
for the borders to open, becauseAustralia had pretty strict
lockdown going on.
And as we were doing that, wewere sort of watching our I mean
, in our own minds, we werewatching our time run out on all
these adventures or thesethings we'd planned to do, and
one of the things on our bucketlist had always been to buy a
boat.
So as soon as the bordersopened, we took our opportunity
(02:51):
to fly to Europe and buy a boatin Croatia, and we've just
wrapped up our second season onthe boat and since then I've
actually gone back and done acouple of van life trips.
So yeah, and I think I wasthinking towards the end of our
third van, I might be over thislifestyle.
And then when we started theboat, I was like, oh well, this
(03:12):
is fabulous, this is fantastic.
It's so much better than vanlife in a lot of ways.
And it's funny, having goneback into the van recently in
the winter in Europe, I'mstarting to come back around to
van life again after a littlebreak, so it's fun.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
Isn't that funny.
That kind of describes myexperience exactly, because we
go in the sailboat for like fivemonths sometimes and I'm like,
oh, I just wanna I love it.
And then I'm like I need abreak, I wanna go do something
else.
I wanna be on land and haveaccessibility to bicycling and
hiking and stuff.
So I'm happy to be in the van.
And then I'm like, oh my gosh,I need to get back in the boat.
So I think the two are justreally compliment each other so
(03:50):
wonderfully.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
So Absolutely yeah, I think that's what I just found
out.
I thought, yeah, how did you,when you first started sailing,
did you think it was better orworse, or the same?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Yeah, what's interesting is I started out
with the boat.
I was laid off and got on theboat and it was a way to save
money on rent in San Francisco,so I did the sailing thing,
first and then was like oh it'dbe really cool if we had a van.
So it did kind of opposite ofyou.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
So it was very different.
But the sailboat, I feel likeyou just get to more remote,
beautiful areas of nature andthere's more aspects of
self-reliance, so I'm curious,like what you thought about it,
transitioning from the van tothe boat.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Yeah, I just the same .
I mean, yeah, every day maybenot every day, but more often
than in the van you're waking upin some beautiful isolated cove
with nobody to share it with,rather than maybe a Walmart or a
gas station.
So that's a huge difference andinitially it's very kind of
(04:53):
captivating and, oh, this isamazing and unbeatable.
And you're waking up on thewater.
I think that's another reallyspecial thing.
And so, yeah, my initialfeeling was like, oh, this is
better than van life.
I think I prefer this.
And, yeah, it wasn't.
Until I got back in the van, Iwas like, oh, that's right,
boats can't go up mountains andboats can't go inland and boats
(05:16):
can't see all these sort of andthey can't travel as fast or as
fast.
So there are all these thingsyou forget about that the van
has advantages over.
But yeah, as you say, that'sthose really remote places and
waking up in a different coveevery day.
That's pretty special.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
It is and that's funny.
You said that about the speedbecause our boat, you know it's
a sailboat.
It goes like if we're lucky itgoes seven knots, and that's if
we're lucky.
It likes to ride around fiveknots and for people who don't
understand that that's like asfast as someone can run really
fast.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Right, yeah, so we're even swaller and slower.
We're even swaller and slower.
We're lucky to get five knots.
So, yeah, I wear a fast walk.
Some of our friends are askingus yesterday like, oh, if we
were in this part of Europe andyou're in that part of Europe,
how long would it take you toget there?
And we're like I know it'ssmall enough, but it'd be like
walking there, it'd be a reallylong time.
Speaker 2 (06:04):
Yeah, I think people forget about that, that we're
very slow and it's such adifferent feeling being on a
boat and one cool thing about itis that you're more on the
speed while the dolphins arefaster, but they do come up in
the whales and I'm curious, didyou see that in where you were
sailing as well, the sea life?
Because I know we sail inreally different parts of the
world.
You're in the sea of Cortez.
You're in Europe.
What did you see out there?
Speaker 1 (06:26):
The Adriatic is famously not super hospitable to
marine life.
It's not, I don't think it'svery nutrient rich and it's been
fished very heavily, butthey're still dolphins, so you
still get the dolphin swimmingwith you.
But other than that, we didn'tsee so much.
We saw a couple of turtles, acouple of larger fish jumping,
(06:49):
but, yeah, maybe not asspectacular as Mexico, I'm
guessing.
But we haven't done Mexico yet,so I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah, very true.
And another thing I waswondering because I noticed that
when I'm on the boat, one ofthe things that makes me want to
get back to the van issometimes some of the motion and
the weather and having to sailthe overnights.
I don't know if you guys had todo that, but sometimes when
we're just being thrown aroundthe sea of Cortez is known for
some steep, chop sometimes andclose together waves and it can
be really nasty, and so I'm likeI want to get in the van.
(07:19):
Give me a stable bed.
Did you experience that sort ofrolly nature of your sailboat?
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Lately, yeah, so that I mean they're apart.
Sometimes in van life it can bescary, especially driving
somewhere in a dangerous area ora dangerous country.
But I think, yeah, the gettingcaught out in a storm on anchor
and being up all night worriedthat you're going to pull off
your anchor and drift off intothe rocks, you don't get that.
(07:47):
Mainly, you don't get thatlevel of sort of adrenaline in
van life.
So a couple of nights in thatand you're sort of wondering why
the hell you're doing this.
But yeah, I think that's verytrue.
It's a level of stress thatdoesn't usually come with van
life.
It often comes with a tail saillife.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Yeah, I remember one time we were sailing up the
coast of Baja and there's acertain mountain range area that
gets really high winds andunfortunately in the middle of
the night, and they're calledcatabatic winds.
So we're sailing and you know,tom is asleep and I'm on watch
and suddenly the boat's beinglike blown over at this steep
angle and he was sleeping on thecabinetry and he's like why am
I asleep on the cabinetry?
(08:26):
So he woke up and we're gettingblasted by like 40 to 50 knot
winds and it was like 2 am andit just went like all night and
I was like, why am I doing this?
But it's not like.
That happens very often.
But sailing, you know, you canget really hit by some weird
stuff.
That, you're right, doesn'thappen in the van.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Yeah, I mean, and so yeah, I think most sailors have
spent many, much time at sea.
No, no about the catabatics.
So we get it.
In Montenegro, they've gotthese the tall mountains as well
, and they don't predict.
It is sort of unpredictable,because it's just wind falling
off the side of a mountain andyeah, it just blows, blows it's
guts out for hours on end andthat, yeah, and I think even now
(09:05):
, as I'm saying it out loud,I've sort of become a little bit
immune to it, because when Isay it out loud that sounds like
something pretty extreme, butfor me it's like, oh, it's just
part of just part of sailing now.
But I think if you told someonethat was thinking about going
from van life to sail life, thatmight be a little bit
off-putting.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yes, and that's a reason I like to mention it,
because I do get questions fromvan life as in they're like oh,
I'm thinking about like going tothe sailboat, and I think it
often seems very romantic fromwhat people see like on is like
anything in life.
You know, what you see insocial media or what you might
imagine is way different thanhow it is.
And so I tell them like, yeah,it feels like it can be way more
dangerous than being in the van.
(09:43):
Although the van, you can havehead on collisions which end up
being very bad.
So, yeah, that might be evenworse.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
They're probably similar in terms of risk, but
it's not the feeling you getwhen you're driving 100
kilometers down the highway.
It's not the same as being upin the middle of the night
trying to survive one of thosegusts out of nowhere.
I feel like it feels a lotworse yeah very true.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
And so how did you guys do in terms of like?
So this is your first boat, solike learning to sail, learning
the boat systems, what was allthat like for you?
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yeah, I think that's a good question because I think
that's probably the other thing,isn't it?
If you're coming from ends tothe sailboats and you don't have
a lot of experience, thelearning curve is probably the
next scariest thing, probablythe scariest thing because I
wasn't even thinking about, Ididn't know enough to know about
catabatic winds or storms toworry about.
But the learning curve wascertainly a worry I've actually
(10:38):
had when I was a kid.
I grew up sailing diggies, so Iknew the principles of sailing
and it was just about sort ofscaling up, I guess, to a bigger
boat.
What we did is we hired acouple of guys, a couple of
brothers in Croatia to.
We bought the boat and then wehired these guys to come and
board our boat and show us howit worked.
(11:00):
And they said, oh, we couldprobably get you set up for
sailing in about 10 days.
And we said it would be great,we'll be sailing from island to
island, having just an awesometime.
And they're like listen, guys,I think we're mostly just going
to be motoring in and out of thedock because it turns out, most
of what you need to know to getgoing is just docking the boat.
(11:20):
So for 10 days.
We were just practicing beingable to get in and off, on and
off the dock and on and off theanchor and then sort of learn to
hoist the sail and put down thesail.
But that's essentially thestuff.
You can slowly learn as you go.
But knowing how to get the boatinto harbor and out without
(11:42):
damaging any other boats is apretty essential skill.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yeah, that's true and that's something I haven't
personally learned, because mypartner, tom, has had his first
sailboat in like 2001 and he'sthe main helmsman and captain
and he docks the boat.
But that's something I feellike I need to learn.
But it is like a 41 foot boatwith like a six foot bow sprit
that hangs way out, so it's 47overall.
And then so you have this longpeople who don't know what a bow
(12:08):
sprit is, this long piece ofwood that's like six feet off of
the boat that you have tomaneuver in Like a spear, almost
waiting to punch us havesomeone else's boat.
Yeah, so I have fears like I candrive the boat when we're out
at sea.
You know, I know how to put thesails up and take them down,
but the docking thing, man,that's scary.
So did you both learn how todock when you were doing these
lessons?
Speaker 1 (12:28):
We yeah, we both learned.
I've become the default dockerat this stage, but we both
learned at the time.
But we have an advantage overyour boat.
We have a tiny weed 29 footboat without a bow sprit so, and
you know also, the previousowner had put a bow thruster on
this little boat, so we'rehighly maneuverable.
If we make a mistake, we cancorrect.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
yeah, Very true, ours does not like to pivot or turn
its nose or back up pivot, it'sjust.
It's a very it's like driving agigantic private airplane where
it's real slow to take anychanges, so that's something
people have to.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Yeah, I think that's something you don't realize.
Do you Like when you cut, whenyou it's very?
Car is very responsive.
A boat is very unresponsive.
You have to learn about howlong it takes to bring the front
around using a rudder that's atthe back, and it can be a
little bit of a learning curve,I think.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Totally so.
Yeah, tell me a little moreabout the.
You said it was the AdriaticSea, correct?
Like what does that look like?
Where exactly is it for peopleover on this side of the pond
that don't know geography verywell like me, I would think
maybe Croatia or Greece, buttell me a little more about the
sailing grounds you were in.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
The Adriatic is that little arm of the Mediterranean
that goes up in between Croatiaand the inside of Italy, so it's
this beautiful little protectedsea.
I love that you've gotMontenegro, albania, a little
bit of Greece and then, on theother side, italy.
We're actually a little bit ofSlovenia at the top as well but
it's this very narrow, veryprotected stretch of water which
(13:59):
in the middle of it, nearCroatia especially, you have a
lot of islands.
So a lot of protection, verypredictable wind patterned and
almost zero tide and zero reef.
So, as opposed to learn how tosail, it's up there with the
best and obviously it'sextremely beautiful.
(14:20):
So you've got really like reallylovely crystal clear water, no
waves, nothing like that, andsome amazing places to visit
along Croatia all those oldAsian towns, split and Shibonec,
and Dubrovnik and everythinglike that.
So it's perfect in that sense.
The only downside would be theamount of sailors there, and
(14:43):
especially the amount of sailorsthat are just there for a week
or two.
So it's a really popular placefor people to come and rent a
boat for a week or two.
How good they are at sailing isan absolute.
That could be great.
It could be sailors that havesailed all their lives and just
don't own their boat and they'recoming for a week holiday or
they could be begin, and sothat's the biggest challenge
(15:05):
being surrounded by people whereyou're not 100% sure how to use
their boat.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
That's really interesting, and so when you go
out to those islands, do youfind like secluded coves, or are
you always sharing coves withother people?
Speaker 1 (15:18):
No, absolutely.
There's just so much coastline.
I think if you added up all thecoastline, including all the
islands in Croatia, it's reallyremarkable how much space there
is, and as somebody who has alot of time to spend out there,
you can pick and choose.
Everybody else has to go to thenumber one beaches and the
(15:38):
number one spots.
So they're all going to va,they're all going to Split,
they're all going to thesereally famous and the most
beautiful places in Croatia, andwe're fully aware that that's
not necessarily.
It's much more beautiful tokeep going a couple of coves
around and find somewherecompletely to ourselves and
fight over very crowded sailinggrounds.
So it's very easy to avoid thecrowds, but you have to be
(16:04):
prepared to avoid them, but itis very easy.
There are lots of cool placesto check out.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Cool, that sounds like a really fun place to sail.
I knew some other people thathad a sailboat but they were
sailing all around the med andthey were saying that the winds
and the weather patterns arekind of crazy in other areas.
So that's good to know thatthat sea is a little more gentle
.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Yeah, yeah.
So if you keep going around andyou get into the Cyclades,
where you know Mekinos andTantorini and all that it's, you
can tell just by the geography.
So the mountain, even theislands in the Ionian, on this,
on the same side as the Adriatic, they're in Greece, they're all
covered in pine trees andthey're all lush and green.
Get around in the Cyclades andit's all those very bare rocky
(16:46):
islands, which gives you a bitof a clue that you know, it's
very windy a lot of the time, sowe haven't gone around there
yet.
We hope to in the future.
But where we've been has beenreally nice to.
It still gets windy, but moreoften than not it's predictable
and you can find somewherethat's going to be a little bit
protected and calm.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Very cool, and was there anything that like
surprised you when you firstwent to sailboat life after
doing so many different vehicleson land?
Speaker 1 (17:13):
I guess I wasn't surprised because I didn't know
what to expect.
So I was sort of open toanything.
But it's just.
I mean, just the ample size ofthat sailboat is a nice change.
So when you go from Vans tosailboats, that's sort of people
were saying to me like, oh, howare we going to live on a tiny
sailboat?
I said this is an incredibleamount of space.
(17:36):
We have two bench sheets thatface each other.
We have a separate berth, wehave, you know, a toilet.
It was for me sort of that wasa big change, the amount of
space that we had.
I mean something specific to thearea we were sailing in was how
incredibly difficult it was toget anyone to.
I don't know if it's like thisin Mexico probably not but if
(17:56):
you need to get anything done interms of mechanical work or
fixing the boat, it's very slowuphill process to compel anyone
to help you.
In the part of the med we'vebeen sailing in which was
different to the van, I guessanother difference would be the
cost, which the cost of entry tothe sailing was a little bit
(18:21):
higher to get the same.
I mean, obviously you can dovan life extremely cheaply or
van life in a very expensivefashion.
You can do boat life in asimilar way, but I feel like
even the lower level starts alittle bit higher in boat life.
So we had a very entry levelboat and we spent about 20,000
euro on it.
And we had a very entry levelvan and we spent less than half
(18:44):
of that on it.
So that's what we noticed aboutthe cost.
And then, once you're actuallysailing, some costs are higher
while some costs are lower.
Obviously, gas we spend nothingon gas maybe $25 a week on a
bad week when there's been nowind, but then you spend a lot
more money to stay in an arenathan you would to stay in a
(19:06):
campsite with the van.
So the cost has just been sortof a redivision.
I think we spent a little bitmore on the boat, but not a huge
amount more.
And then, yeah, those are thebig differences.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Yeah, I can totally relate to all of those, which is
interesting because when wespent a lot of time in the van
and we go on the boat, it feelsgigantic.
I'm like wow.
I have like rooms, I have thetoilet and the shower, I have
like an oven on my boat and I'mlike, wow, an outdoor cockpit to
sit in.
It just feels gigantic and mostpeople would not think that
sailboat is gigantic.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
I think that's probably a unique perspective
that you get if you go from vanto boat.
Most people would think you gotyour downsizing to get on the
boat, whereas if you're comingfrom the van you're thinking,
wow, this is fabulous.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
I know, I think that's so funny.
And then another interestingpart is during our interview.
Right now we're actually in aboatyard in Mexico and it is
hard to find people to work onyour boat.
This is actually a DIY boatyardand one of the only ones we've
heard of in Mexico and incertain parts of the world.
Actually, I heard that there'sone couple here that they've
been back and forth to the SouthPacific many times and they
(20:12):
intentionally came all the wayup here so they could work on
their boat at an affordableprice, because you can do all
your own work.
It's only like 250 bucks amonth and you can have like I
have my van here, I have my boathere, you have electricity,
bathrooms, showers I mean it haseverything and you can walk to
town and the beach.
So people come here fromeverywhere just to work on their
$250 a month to keep the boatthere.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Yes, amazing.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
They pull it out of the water, you store it on the
hard when you're not here, andso it's very safe.
It's out of the hurricane zone,and so that's why a lot of
people come here, and so youmeet a lot of interesting
cruisers from around the worldwho've come here, and a lot of
young people too, because it'sreally expensive to get someone
to work on your boat.
If you can find someone, If youcan find.
Yes, and so the best way to savemoney is to do your own stuff,
(20:58):
and that's what everyone here isdoing.
So there's that camaraderieassociated with it.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
So is there a nice community of liveaboard there in
the off season or working ontheir boat.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Uh-huh, yeah, right now there's quite a few people
here and we had a party lastweekend for Christmas tamales
and stuff, and so that sense ofcommunity is the only thing that
keeps me sane around here,because otherwise being in a
boat yard is not super fun.
But it is neat to have thecommunity around here and
everyone's hanging out and wehave the same goals, same
(21:27):
mindset, and so it's really kindof a special, unique
opportunity.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
Can I ask you what have you found the difference
between community living in avan versus living in a boat?
Do you find it easier or harderto meet people along the way?
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Yeah, what's interesting is I find the
sailboat actually way easier tofind community.
I'll be curious what you'll sayafter this, because when we go
out to these different coves andplaces in Mexico, there's just
a few other boats there and youtend to meet people.
Like you know, you're dingingaround, you meet people and
we've met so many people here inthis boat yard that then go
down into the sea of Cortez thatwe recognize them and see them
(22:02):
out there and then we hang outwith them and so we're always
making friends hanging out withpeople and in the van life I
have actually met like nobody,because we also go way out
boondocking in the United Stateson the public lands, way far
from people, and so we're notnecessarily meeting people or
attending gatherings.
So we haven't really met anyonein the van life.
(22:23):
So I'm curious, like what doyou think about that?
Have you noticed a difference?
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Yeah, not so much of a difference, because it turns
out we're just loners in bothlife styles and it seems like I
think we had this vision when weset off on our first van life
that we would be sitting aroundcampfires with people every
night.
And then on that first trip weactually found it pretty
surprising how few people thatwe met along the way, like we
certainly would meet people fromtime to time, but it wasn't the
(22:52):
10 van convoy we might haveimagined at the start.
And then in life has sort offollowed that trajectory a
little bit as well.
So we've met a few people alongthe way and hung out with them
for a night and then go ourseparate ways.
But once again, in generalwe've been a little bit maybe
(23:14):
slack in making friends alongthe way.
But I wonder if it's Notice aswell, in the place that we're
sailing it's a lot of retirees,which is fine.
We've spent time hanging outwith retirees but we don't have
as much in common with a lot ofthe people in the areas that
we're sailing, which seems to bea different bit of a
(23:37):
generational gap.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Yeah, and that's interesting.
There are a lot of retireeshere, but there's also a lot of
young people here in the Sea ofCortez and in the boatyard, A
lot of people like in their 30sand 40s, and there's even a guy
here who was 26.
I'm like 26, where'd that comefrom?
That seemed really young, buthe's working on his boat.
He lives on his boat, and soyou do have more of a wide age
range here.
(23:59):
And then the Sea of Cortezitself is a certain special area
where kind of the same peoplego back every year, and a lot of
them are permanent liveaboard,and so, season after season,
you're running into these samepeople and then, you end up
doing little sail convoys withthem, which is fun, and a lot of
them travel anchor to anchorageall year and they're really
(24:20):
great friends and they're young,so it's really interesting to
find those little pockets ofpeople of varying ages here, so
that's something that's kind ofunique.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Where it sounds like also in your area there's a lot
of people on holiday comingthrough renting boats and you
don't really see that here 100%Okay, yeah, probably a lot more
people there on holidays, eithershort term because they already
have a boat there, or red toolsare very popular, which is, I
guess, another thing.
(24:49):
A lot of people are transient,so you're less likely to keep up
with them.
Do you feel that the lifestyleis growing and more people
turning up at this boatyard yearon year?
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Oh yeah, this boatyard had their busiest year
ever.
This year I think they saidthey stored about 180 boats and
just a few years when they werestarting out.
It was hardly any.
I think we were last herealmost three years ago and I've
even noticed they're justpacking them in.
People are storing boats andthere's even way more people in
the sea, especially because ofStarlink, the availability of
(25:21):
internet.
And so now you have more andmore remote workers and people
spending more time at seainstead of going back to the US
to work, and so we are seeingthose getting way more crowded
here, and I don't know if that'sthe same for you guys with
Starlink, because you said mostpeople are retirees anyway, so
it might not make a difference.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
No, but that's not.
We can notice that there arepeople, more and more people,
that are working from the roadin general, especially post
COVID, where more opportunitiesfor remote work sort of came up
and people started to do thissort of thing.
We're definitely noticing itboth in van life and in sail
life more young people that areworking, because I think that's
(26:01):
a big difference, isn't it?
In the past, your employmentopportunities were severely
limited if you decided to livepermanently in the van or
permanently on the boat, whereasnow there's a lot of jobs that
you can do on the go.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Yeah, very true.
And there's another interestingpart of sail life that we
haven't talked about yet is justthe fact that we can get
propelled by the wind is justsuch a special feeling that
we're just out there, we're inthe elements.
I feel like a sailboat is almostpart of the elements.
It's like we're justself-sustaining.
It feels like a living beingactually to me when we have the
sails up and it's kind ofdancing along and we can make
(26:37):
our own water.
We have a water maker, we havetons of food, we can catch fish.
It just feels like a reallyself-sustainable lifestyle,
which is something I love.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Undoubtedly, I said before, you don't travel as far
on the sailboat but in a way youdo travel just as far.
You're just seeing more.
I mean just because you're onlygoing 20 nautical miles along.
If you take a whole day to dothat, you see it and you're
seeing a lot more than you wouldif you're just going from point
A to point B on a highway toarrive somewhere different.
So yeah, you don't cover asmuch ground but you just see so
(27:10):
much more.
You see you sort of exploringevery inch of the coast at that
really slow pace.
It's definitely a very specialway to travel.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Yeah, and it feels good to not spend so much money
on diesel because the van man itcosts us a lot sometimes.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Yeah, that's a big plus.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
Yeah, budget-wise, I love being in Mexico.
I think my food prices go down,my diesel prices go down.
The living expenses are so low,given that this is just $250 a
month, which is way cheaper thanif you spend money on
campgrounds a few nights, it'sway more expensive, so the
affordable rate is also reallygood.
So that's something that I loveabout this part of the year.
But it gets too hot and then weleave.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
Okay, yeah, so once it gets too warm, you have to be
at sea, I guess.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Yeah, well, then we go back to the van and back
north to the northern climate.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
Okay, all right.
So this is like a, so youescape the winter to Mexico and
then go back when it starts toget too hot in Mexico.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Exactly that's our travel pattern.
Yeah, so are you guys planningon any like bigger sailboat
trips, or what does that looklike for you guys?
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Yeah.
So, to be honest, when we firstbought the boat, it was that
last hurrah we had this ideathat we would be moving back to
Australia to settle down at somepoint and that, as COVID went
on and on, we are sort ofcrossing things off the list.
Oh well, now we can't go and do.
You know, we wanted to go anddo India and some Central Asia,
and we sort of said, well, wemight not have time for that, we
(28:34):
might not have time to live inPortugal, we might not have time
for this, we might not havetime to do that.
And the only thing left on thelist that we thought well, we
have to do before we go back andsettle down in Australia is we
have to just spend one season ona boat.
You know, halfway to thatseason, I'd say to Kelly oh look
, bad years.
I think we might have to givethis a little bit more time
before we head back to Australia.
(28:55):
And so now, yeah, thetimeline's been extended a
little bit and I don't knowexactly when we'll wrap up
sailing, but at the moment I'vethere's a lot more I want to do
on the boat, so I want to beable to take it out of the
Adriatic and out of theMediterranean and sort of level
up our skills and while we mightnever be ready to do a full
(29:17):
ocean crossing, I'd like totravel a little bit further on
it.
So this season our plan is toupskill and do some sailing
courses and become a little bitmore proficient and then,
looking for the next few years,maybe getting it out into
different parts of Europe andthen ultimately, either in this
(29:37):
boat or another boat, maybegoing into the Bahamas and that
sort of area and exploringsomewhere new.
So yeah, we've got some, we'vegot some plans, and none of them
involved selling, none of theminvolved hanging up the sails
just yet.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Yeah, so the sailboat kind of derailed your settling
down plans for a little longer.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Yeah, it really did.
Really, it's fatter in theworks, a wrench in the works.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Yeah, sailboat can do that to you.
There's something very specialabout it, even though sometimes
I find it antagonizing with thewind and the weather and the
motion.
But then there's so many lovelyparts that I think you well, I
just tend to forget the badparts and I'm like I want to do
that more.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Yeah, absolutely.
There's just one nice, you knowone sunny, stale, with nice
wind, which is hard to rememberthose, those catabatic winds
here.
Speaker 2 (30:24):
I know it's hard to remember.
I do love that sailing requiresa certain level of skill and I
feel like it's almost a sport,like more of a sport than just
driving a van which can be,cumbersome and boring, but when
you're sailing and you've gotthe boat going at that perfect
heel and speed and it's justbeautiful and I think there's
nothing better than that.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
That's yeah, there's yeah.
I think that's that's anotherbig draw, isn't it?
That there's always somethingto learn, and the more I mean
where it's obviously justbeginning this sort of journey
and it's where.
So, at the point where, like,the more we learn, the more we
realize how much we don't knowand how much more we have to
develop as sailors.
So, you know, after two seasons, we're still, you know,
(31:05):
building the confidence to evenleave this little area of Europe
, and there's just so much morethat this has got such a big
runway and a far horizon for usto learn and develop as sailors.
I think that is a reallyexciting part, but we might have
thought we were going to go outand conquer sailing in a season
, but looking back, that was aninsane idea.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Totally, and do you guys have any more plans to
continue doing the van life, orhow does that fit into your
overall plan?
Speaker 1 (31:32):
So yeah, I mean, as we spoke about a little bit at
the start, finishing up the vanin Australia is really getting a
bit over it.
I mean, australia is quite adifficult place, quite a
challenging place to travel, andwe were traveling in the least
comfortable van we'd ever we'dever had.
It was a Land Cruiser troopcarrier with a little pop-top
tent, so it was really we wereroughing it quite a lot and
(31:58):
Australia is obviously a prettyfast place to travel.
You know, you're spending a lotof time outside of cities, in
you know, dusty places, andtowards the end of that I was
getting a little bit over it, Ithink.
And then we got onto the boatand I thought, oh, this is it,
this is.
There's no going back from this.
I loved it.
I thought this.
You know, this is way betterthan the van life ever could be.
(32:20):
But having got back in the vanfor a couple of trips just
recently, in the last couple ofmonths, I've fallen back in love
with van life all of a sudden.
And so it's that swings around.
You know, the grass is alwaysgreedy.
You're doing one thing and it'swonderful, and after a little
while you start to miss some ofthe good things about van life.
(32:40):
So getting back and exploringScotland by then and Slovenia by
then and Italy by then in thelast couple of months is just
really, really reconnected withwhy are we, why are we fell in
love with van life in the firstplace.
So I've realized that neitherone's now sale life nor van life
are replaceable.
Well after after finding waysfor them to coexist.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Yes, are you guys thinking?
Speaker 1 (33:02):
as you have.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Yeah, exactly, there's a season for one, a
season for another, and so manyplaces to explore.
It's really fun.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Are you guys going to purchase another van, do you
think?
Or just continue with therentals?
Speaker 1 (33:15):
Well, yeah, someday it just we know we're never
planning to do any rigid plansat.
You know it's a constant stateof flux.
But before we left Australia Iwas sketching up my next van.
I thought it might be aco-starter I don't know if you
have them in the States like abus type thing, not a big bus
(33:35):
but a small bus.
And then we got on the boat andthose plans sort of evaporated
or were put on hold for a while.
So no immediate plans to buy anew van, but at some point there
will be another van and I'malways thinking about ideas and
what I need and donating in thatnext van.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Yeah, very cool.
Yeah, it sounds like we have alot in common and experienced
the same things, and hopefullymore people will try saleboat
living if it appeals to them,because it is phenomenal.
It's really a way to get deepinto nature, which I really love
, so it's special.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Yeah, I think there's those things that are scary
about it, but they'resurmountable.
Just by what you get throughthem a couple of times, you
realize they're not so scary andthey're no more risky than
probably driving the van on thehighways.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Very true, Well cool.
It's been so fun talking to youI know that you have a blog and
you have ways for people tofollow you guys, so just tell us
a little bit about that.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Yeah, absolutely so.
We started a blog in 2018 whenwe first started Van Life, and
at the time, we thought we'llalways be doing Van Life, so we
called it the Vanobond Talesinstead of the Vagabond.
We had to call the VanobondTales and then, of course, we
transitioned to sale life, butwe kept the Vanobond Tales blog
(34:57):
alive and now it just covers abroader variety of things, so
still got information wherewe've traveled and information
on vans and Van Life and how toget started, and now we're
starting to write a little bitof stuff about sale life, and
certainly we don't pretend to beexpert sailors, but we can
certainly share something thatwe've learned the stuff we've
(35:18):
been talking about today aboutgetting started and overcoming
some of those initial problemshow much it costs and how to do
it, sort of thing and mostrecently, we started a blog, so
we've started recording some ofour stuff at sea and, just like
the blog was, that's a biglearning curve in and of itself,
(35:39):
and so we've been trying tofigure it out and it's an
ongoing project, but we'rereally enjoying it and I think
we'll continue doing that aslong as we have something to
share.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
Very cool and that has the same name as your blog.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Yeah, it does.
So.
The channel is the Van IbonTiles YouTube at the Van Ibon
Tiles.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Very cool.
I'll put everything in the shownotes, of course, so people can
just scroll down and click onstuff.
But I'm on your email list andI enjoy the emails you write, so
thanks for doing this.
And yeah, super fun to chatwith you about our lifestyles.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Absolutely.
Yeah, cool, great to talk toyou too.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Thanks so much for tuning in to another episode of
the Wayward Home Podcast.
Just to let you know, I'm aboutto take a break from the
podcast to focus on some otherthings in my business, such as
getting traffic to my website.
I'd love to stay in touch withyou, though, so make sure you're
signed up for my email list.
That's thewaywardhomecomforward slash subscribe, and
I'll also put that link in theshow notes.
I send out emails often and Ilove hearing from you, so I hope
(36:41):
to see you over there.
Thanks again for listening tothis episode.
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