August 11, 2025 • 34 mins
What if your content could work harder and longer for your business instead of disappearing after 24 hours? In this eye-opening conversation with SEO expert Brittany Herzberg, we explore why search engine optimization deserves a central place in your marketing strategy even if you have been avoiding it because it feels too technical or overwhelming.
Brittany shares her journey from massage therapist to copywriter to SEO specialist, revealing how she discovered the power of optimization almost by accident while building a location-independent business. Her refreshingly straightforward approach cuts through the intimidation factor and shows you how to create content that drives sustainable website traffic for years.
“I help people create content that lasts longer than the stomach flu,” Brittany says, perfectly capturing the fleeting nature of social media posts compared to SEO-optimized blogs, podcasts, and YouTube videos. You will also learn the three essential questions every entrepreneur should answer before creating content:
- Who do you help?
- How do you help them?
- What do you want to be known for?
Through inspiring success stories like a client who gained 15,000 monthly visitors through consistent blogging and another who landed a six-month contract within weeks of making targeted SEO changes Brittany proves you do not need technical expertise or a big budget to start seeing results.
Whether you are launching your first business or pivoting for the fifth time you will leave this episode with practical SEO tips to move beyond the hamster wheel of social media and build lasting visibility that attracts your ideal clients when they are actively searching for solutions.
Listen now to learn how to grow your visibility on Google and follow The We Pivot Podcast for more of the strategies and encouragement you need to keep showing up in your business.
📌 Connect with Brittany Herzberg
Website: https://brittanyherzberg.com
📌 Connect with Haywood Digital Marketing
Website: https://www.haywooddigitalmarketing.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tona (00:02):
The we Pivot podcast is for you if you're a woman who
has recently pivoted intoentrepreneurship.
You'll find digital marketingtips, trends and strategies to
help grow your business intoday's digital world.
Join Tona and Al Haywood as wehave fun breaking down all
things digital marketing.
So sit back, relax and enjoythe show.
(00:26):
Welcome back everyone to the wePivot podcast.
Have you ever thought or heardof the word SEO?
You probably have, but maybeyou don't know a lot about it.
Well, today my guest isBrittany Herzberg.
And do you know where I met her?
I met her on threads, and I'mso glad that she decided to
(00:50):
accept my invitation to be onthe we Pivot podcast.
Hello, brittany, you candefinitely tell the people a
little bit more about yourself.
Britanny (01:02):
Hello, thank you so much for having me.
It was really fun.
I've been meeting a lot ofreally cool people over on
threads and you know I get toshare my story.
I get to invite them to sharetheir story.
All right, so let's see whereshould I even begin?
I guess I'll start back in theday when I was a massage
therapist.
That was my first career and youknow, through a series of
(01:22):
events mostly the pandemichitting being at home, love of
learning, wanting to improvethat business I stumbled upon
the fact that I'm actually apretty darn good copywriter.
And a few years later I wantedto get really good at SEO
because, like you just mentioned, we hear about this thing but
it's very much of like thatsounds scary.
I don't know what that's allabout.
(01:43):
It's intimidating, but it'svery much of like that sounds
scary.
I don't know what that's allabout.
It's intimidating.
So, me being me, I decided oneday that I was just going to
face my fear and figure out whatthis thing was, and once I did,
I saw how simple it could be,how easy it could be, and
nothing I touch now has zero SEO.
Everything has SEO because ofhow beneficial it can be and how
important it is to growing abusiness any kind of business.
(02:05):
So now people can't get me tobe quiet about SEO, but that's
like the super condensed versionof how I got here I like it.
Tona (02:13):
I mean becoming being a massage therapist and into
copywriting.
That had to be a big, a bigchange for you.
A big change for you.
What made you, what led you tomake that shift from massage
therapy into the?
Britanny (02:33):
copywriting and SEO.
Yeah, it was really.
I needed to be locationindependent.
Long story short, my boyfriendand I knew that we didn't want
to live where we were at thetime North Carolina.
We knew we wanted to come backto New England, which is where
he's from, but we didn't knowwhat state, and so our approach
was to go and rent somedifferent Airbnbs, which were
here at the end of 2024.
And we've now been doing thisfor about three years.
(02:55):
Wow, okay.
So it's a lot.
But because of that, I mean, Itried the very first place that
we moved to, to set up a massagestudio, and it was very hard,
it was very challenging.
I mean, it's complicated, and Idon't blame people when you're
announcing to them like, hey,I'm not really sure where I'm
going to be living in six months, but you want to come in for a
massage, and like, what if theyend up liking you and liking
(03:17):
your style?
It's very hard to.
It's a hard style.
So it was at that time where mypractice really wasn't thriving
and I remember so many days justcoming home and, you know,
bawling my eyes out because Iwas like I don't know what I'm
going to do.
But then I remembered that Ihad copywriting.
I had been taking on these sidejobs and, you know, doing
different copywriting projectsfor friends of mine who were
(03:39):
also in the health and wellnessspace.
Because I spoke that language,it was very easy for me to
translate what they were sayingand say it in a way that people
were looking for it, and so Ijust decided to really double
down my efforts on that and Ikept the practice going for a
while.
It was 50-50, where I hadmassage therapy and then also
the copywriting projects.
But at some point I was like,okay, I need to just go all in
(04:01):
on this, and ever since I did,it's been really, really amazing
.
Tona (04:04):
I need to just go all in on this and ever since I did,
it's been really, really amazing.
Yeah, I think that's great.
And then you know, with the wePivot podcast, a lot of people
are coming from different areas.
Anyway, it could be a differentbusiness to a different,
pivoting into a differentbusiness or another career
pivoting into something totallynew.
So I love that something totallynew.
(04:27):
So I love that.
You know, for a lot ofentrepreneurs, especially women
entrepreneurs, our go-to isalways social media.
It's like you know, that's thefirst thing we think about.
That's the place that we putour time and effort and a lot of
times it doesn't really get usthe results that we want after
putting all that time in.
Why do you believe focusing onSEO is better for a long-term
(04:49):
strategy for driving websitetraffic?
Britanny (04:52):
Yeah, I mean, one of the things I say often is that I
help people create contentthat's going to last longer than
the stomach flu, because that'swhat it feels like when we're
posting things to TikTok orInstagram or really any social
media platform.
It has such a finite, teeny,tiny little itty bitty shelf
life, unless we get lucky andsomething gets picked up and it
goes viral.
(05:12):
And usually those things that goviral aren't always the things
that lead people to yourbusiness and really connect with
the offer that you want to sellor how you want to serve people
to sell or you know how youwant to serve people.
So it's not even that I don'tthink SEO is or that I don't
think SEO can even be applied tosocial media, because it can
and we'll touch on that.
But SEO pumping that into anyof your content and into any
(05:37):
place that you are online justhas that longer shelf life.
It has that longevity to it andit also gets better with time.
It's kind of like wine orcheese.
I mean, once you start goingwith it, it takes a little bit
of, there's a little bit of rampup time, usually three to six
months and it totally depends onyour situation, but three to
six months, and then you know,the snowball keeps rolling and
(05:57):
it picks up a lot of extra snowon the way down.
Tona (06:00):
That's true, but I think most times most of us we don't
want to wait for long-termsuccess, we'd rather get it fast
, like the microwave put it inthe microwave and get it back
(06:24):
happens right, you put somethingout there, you get the likes,
you get the follows, you get theshares, but then it's kind of
over With SEO.
You put the work in on frontend, but it seems like it takes
forever for it to actually workand, depending on your situation
, it can take forever before yousee it work.
Britanny (06:40):
But then down the line it starts to work and you're
like oh okay, I'm glad that Iput the work in yeah, for sure,
and I I totally agree with youbecause I do think that's why so
many of us, when we enterentrepreneurship and start our
journey, we do go to socialmedia.
We're told, first of all, thatthat's where you go to even grow
a business.
People expect you.
(07:00):
I mean, if I even think aboutmy own behavior, if I'm going to
a museum or a restaurant orwhatever that thing may be,
whatever that place may be, orwhatever person service provider
I'm looking for, I'm stillchecking Instagram to see if
they're there and to get thatmore personal connection with
them to see what they're like,to kind of do like a vibe check.
So I mean, it's not that that'sgoing to go anywhere, it's just
(07:20):
how can we even set up thatpiece, that social media piece,
your profile, the content thatyou're sharing, the captions,
what they say?
How can we set that up for amore longer term sustainable
marketing channel for you?
And I sort of ran my ownexperiment with this over the
last year and a half, I wouldsay, where I really stopped
posting to Instagram.
(07:41):
But I made sure that my profilewas optimized.
I was in my stories, I was inmy DMs, so I still had those
quick hits.
I was still showing up, I wasstill remaining top of mind, but
I let go of that pressure ofdoing those posts every week.
Now I can see how that fitsinto my marketing strategy.
But I was so hard on myself andit was an all or nothing thing,
so I was like all right, let mejust not worry about this.
(08:02):
For a while.
I still had collaborationscoming in, I still had clients
coming in, I still had referralscoming in because I was still
there and I was still active insome way.
But I just removed the pressurefrom it and I just tried to use
that in a smarter way.
So I feel like I did do a goodjob of that.
And, like I said, I'm notsaying that social media should
go away or shouldn't be part ofyour plan or, you know,
(08:24):
especially if you enjoy it,which I do, if you enjoy it,
like definitely keep it on thetable, but just it.
I want people to think morestrategically and, like you were
talking about more long term,how can we optimize these things
so that they're working for usand not draining us?
Tona (08:39):
Yes, and I think that's where the problem comes in,
because lot of times it drains alot of our energy to be able to
put it into the things thatactually matter long term.
And I do agree with what youwere saying about going viral,
because I remember one of myposts probably it might have
been two years ago, probably twoyears ago now that I did,
(09:02):
probably two years ago now thatI did, and it went viral for me,
which was like 48,000 orsomething views and it was just
me lip syncing to some audio andthat was it, and it went viral.
But that didn't really get meany more follows, that didn't
(09:23):
get me any more emailsubscribers.
That didn't get me any moresales to my website.
It didn't do anything.
But oh yes, I went viral, butthat was it.
So you really have to payattention to those types of
things too, because everythingyou put your time in it doesn't
necessarily move the needle.
Britanny (09:44):
Right, yeah, yeah, and that's a huge point to pay
attention to.
I mean, I've worked with a fewbusiness coaches and that's one
thing that they're always likeokay, what marketing channels do
you have and what's working?
And so many of us are just likeposting to Instagram, just like
constantly doing this activityand feeling like, oh, I'm doing
so much but I'm not getting thereward from it.
But we're not taking that thatminute to what is it?
(10:07):
The phrase is like you have to,you know, pull back in order to
spring forward, kind of like aI'm not even thinking of the,
what it is, but like a slingshot, I guess.
Yes, you have to pull back inorder to, you know, just fire
forward and really have that,that growth and that big
momentum.
So, like we're talking aboutjust the social media and
everything like that, we're busy, busy, busy, busy doing.
(10:28):
But if we take a minute andjust really sit and analyze
what's going on and have a realmoment of truth with ourselves,
what are those activities, whatare those things that are moving
the needle, what do we like,what do we not like, we really
have to sit and analyze all ofthat, agreed.
Tona (10:44):
And if you have people who may be new to SEO, what's the
first thing that they need tounderstand or to do to actually
get started?
Britanny (10:54):
Sometimes it's even just hearing what SEO means,
what it stands for let's go overthe definition.
We're going to go over that.
So SEO if you've never heard itor you have heard it, you're
like what in the world?
Is that?
It stands for search engineoptimization?
So how I define that or how Iexplain that is.
It's really just the thingsthat you're doing in order to
show up as the answer to aGoogled question.
(11:16):
You could replace Google withInstagram.
You could replace Instagramwith Spotify.
There are different searchableplatforms where people are
looking for you, for what you'reoffering, for the solution that
you have, and they're trying tofix a problem or get closer to
a desire.
All of those things are whatenable you to show up and be
there and be there in the rightplace at the right time for the
(11:39):
right person, the right time forthe right person.
So that is what SEO is.
The first thing I encourageanyone who comes into my world
to do is to really sit withthree questions.
Put 15 minutes on the timer.
If you need to Break out a penand notepad or type it out on
your computer or whatever it isthat you need to do, talk it out
.
But I want you to think throughyour answer to these questions.
(12:00):
The first one is who do youhelp?
How do you help them?
And then, what do you want tobe known for?
Or as, and once you have thoseanswers to those questions, you
can really use that as a funnelfor what podcasts you want to go
beyond, what blogs you want towrite, what words you want to
weave into your website copy, oreven what posts you want to
make on social media, eventhreads like what do you want to
(12:23):
be saying over there.
So I feel like that's reallycritical, because then that
gives us a filter and even ifyou do nothing other than answer
those questions, you'll befurther ahead than most other
people in your industry.
Tona (12:35):
I like that, to actually just sit back, take those three
questions and answer them,because a lot of times we're
doing things right, but we dothem because, let's say, we see
someone else who might be in thesame industry that we're in and
so they're doing this.
So let me just try to do whatthey're doing instead of
(12:58):
actually doing that forourselves and figuring out who
is it that we specifically talkto.
Britanny (13:04):
Yeah, and that can be the scary thing.
You know, people talk aboutniching.
That can be the really scarything with identifying a niche
of.
Oh my gosh, I'm committing toyou know, if I take it back to
being a massage therapist At onepoint I was like I work with
you know, desk jockeys, peoplewho work at a desk who have, you
know, chronic pain that they'redealing with.
A lot of times it's lower backpain or migraines.
Once I started saying that Ikept getting those people and,
(13:27):
of course, they have otherranges of issues as well that
they're coming in with but thatreally helps them.
That messaging really helpsthem identify with oh, she could
help me.
Oh, that's maybe what I need.
And we can do the same thingwith online business or whatever
that is.
And you're not married to yourniche.
You're not married to thisthing that you are committing to
(13:47):
, at least for a short period oftime it can be.
I'm committing to this rightnow.
I'm helping people with thisright now.
I'm helping this type of personright now.
Tona (13:55):
And I think that's a better way to frame it too to to
know that this is what I'mdoing right now, because, also,
you never know the niche thatyou pick at the time it may not
work out in the way that youwant it to work out, and so you
may need to pivot.
So, being able to have thatability to pivot if it doesn't
(14:17):
work out for you, it's okay too.
Britanny (14:19):
Yeah, and just giving yourself that permission.
I mean, I'm someone thatthere's something.
There's like a side project I'mworking on right now.
It's just more of like apassion project, but I'm so
committed or I'm so nervous tocommit to it because I'm like
everything has to be perfectbefore I jump into it.
No, it doesn't.
I can figure it out as I'm.
You know, I can fly the plane,build it, pull people on board
at the same time.
I've done it before.
Tona (14:40):
Yes, and I think that I think we have to probably do
better at just kind of puttingit out there, because the sooner
you put it out there, thesooner you get the results that
you need to get in order to makethe tweaks that you need to
make along the way, right.
Britanny (14:58):
Yeah, yeah.
You really have to have theexperience and be in it.
You can't just hypothesizeabout something.
You really have to go and doand be moving and then know what
changes you need to make.
Tona (15:09):
Exactly.
And so what do you think thebiggest misconception about SEO
is that you've seen, and how canyou clear that up for people?
Britanny (15:20):
I have these conversations, I would say at
least weekly, if not daily, andit's really just that SEO is
confusing, it's costly, it'ssuper techie.
You know, I had someone come tome recently and she said I
thought that SEO was all aboutcoding.
I'm like, if SEO was all aboutcoding, I would not be doing it.
People come to me and theythink that I've got a handle on
(15:42):
tech and I really don't.
I know enough to be dangerous,but what I do know is those
three questions who I want towork with, how I want to support
them and what I want to beknown for or as, and so, yeah,
if you focus on those things, alot of SEO is just really simple
and it ties in so closely withyour messaging, it ties in so
(16:02):
closely with your businessvision and, like we were talking
about, that can change, thatcan shift.
We can have absolute fullpermission to let that be
whatever it is for right now andwhatever it needs to shift into
in the future, whatever thatnext version is.
So, yeah, I would just.
You know I actually created afree, private podcast to talk
through all of this stuffbecause there's so much chatter
(16:23):
online about you know, a lot ofthe quote-unquote seo bros who
are out here and they have foundtheir way to threads which I'm
not super happy about.
Really see, I don't see them.
Oh good, I need to come to yourcorner of threat.
Tona (16:35):
Yeah yeah, I think my corner is more of the christian
inspiration.
The Christian inspiration,uplifting prayers, christian
apparel yeah, then they comehang out in your corner.
Britanny (16:48):
Right there you go.
Yeah, because what's happeningwith the SEO?
The air quotes again SEO bros,they're coming over and they're
they're really.
It's a fear-based tactic, as Isee it, where it's like oh, you
know, it's so confusing, it's sothis, it's so that and if
you're doing this thing, you'reA lot of SEO is about intention.
Again, like I said, if you havethose three questions, those
(17:09):
answers to those three questions, the way you speak about what
you do, the way you speak to whoyou want to work with and who
you want to call in, it shiftsand you don't have a lot of
people who are out here with theSEO to try to make it scary so
that you will just comealongside them and have them
pretty much do it for you typething.
Tona (17:41):
Like I would always get and still do get those emails
that say, hey, you need to ranknumber one on Google and call me
so that you can you know, sothat you can rank, and it's like
, well, for some odd reason youmanaged to find me.
So how did you find me if I wasnot ranked Because you got I
(18:04):
mean you got through to theemail and all that.
So there's a way that you haveto do it.
Britanny (18:10):
My favorite part is when they misspell your name on
those things or they like putyou with the wrong.
You know, I've had peopleassume my podcast is my business
and I'm like, no, I don'tappreciate it, you did more
research.
But the scariest part of thatis that people take the bait
because they are fearful, theyare scared and they have people
(18:34):
saying these big words andfeeling like they can step in
and save the day.
And I had one of my friendsspend I think it was between
$10,000 and $15,000 working withan agency and they did nothing.
So that's the scariest part isthat a lot of these things
people take the bait, they spenda lot of money and of course
we're all expecting.
You know, for that amount ofmoney we're expecting quite a
bit and they get absolutelynothing for it.
Tona (18:53):
Wow, and that's scary and that's why kind of knowing the
basics and the foundation isreally helpful so that if you
are trying to partner withsomeone or do this long term,
you know who to work with andwho not to work with.
Britanny (19:11):
Yeah, and you have some discernment about that and
you have even maybe somequestions in mind that you could
use as a little bit of a filterfor someone.
Tona (19:20):
I agree With everything that's changing so fast.
What trends in SEO should we bepaying more attention to in
2025?
I know, I had to think aboutthat.
I'm like where are we heading?
I know when are we headingBecause I don't agree.
Britanny (19:37):
I don't know.
I think what we're going to beseeing more and more of is just
people leaning into SEO.
I saw a lot of that coming upthis last year, in 2024, and
people talking about blogging isback.
Well, you just flashed.
Blogging never went anywhere.
We stopped using blogging, westopped blogging, we stopped
relying on that as the reallysolid marketing channel that it
(19:57):
is.
But those of us are you know, Ihad a blog, but it wasn't
business related but those of uswho have been blogging, or the
businesses who've been doing itsince 2011, 2012, they're doing
really well because they'veestablished this is who I am,
this is who I can help, how Ican help you, this is what I'm
known for.
And sure, they've had pips andpips, pivots and shifts along
(20:18):
the way as well, and it's allgood, that's right.
Tona (20:23):
I agree with that.
I think I see a lot more peopleleaning more so into SEO.
I see a lot of people leaninginto Pinterest, too, as a way to
get people to their websitesand things like that, and
talking more so about long formcontent.
Britanny (20:40):
Yeah.
Tona (20:41):
That's been big lately.
Instead of all of the shortterm, the short term content
that we've seen.
Britanny (20:48):
Yeah, I think people are really valuing their time
and themselves and I thinkthey're finally seeing what has
that long-term payoff and whatdoesn't.
And you hinted at somethingreally huge, which is that, if
you think about it, there'sthree really big channels that
you can use for SEO marketing.
You can have your blog on yourwebsite and please, as a side
(21:10):
note for anyone listening, ifyou're considering a Substack or
a Medium, please rethink thatdecision, because your website
and you are who need that SEOjuice.
Substack, medium, all thoseother platforms they're good.
They're good, they have theirSEO.
They're just using you at thatpoint.
So, if you have a website, ifyou have, of course it doesn't
make sense for everyone, but forthe bulk of business owners and
(21:32):
, I'm sure, the bulk of peoplelistening, it makes more sense
to have a blog on your website,but that's the writing version
of you know the SEO marketing.
Then you have podcasting.
There's podcast SEO.
Surprise, there's also.
You know YouTube.
Or like video SEO.
So, depending on what platformlike, if you like video and
you're like I don't want to giveup doing stuff like Instagram
(21:53):
Reels I'm not saying you have to, no one's saying you have to
but if you want to be smarterabout it.
If you want to be morestrategic and have that long
term vision and that long termeffort and payoff, then do the
you know, do YouTube videos andlean into YouTube SEO.
So again, you've got blogging,you've got videos and you've got
(22:16):
podcasting.
Those are all really greatavenues that a lot of people, I
think, are going to startleaning into.
We may see people doing allthree.
I had a really big, you knowdream slash goal of doing that
in 2024.
And I was able to hit two.
I wasn't able to hit YouTubeSEO.
That's all good, like maybeI'll, maybe it'll happen in 2025
.
But I think we're going to seemore people doing that.
I'm noticing also, like justwith AI.
Because everyone wants to talkabout AI and I have a very
(22:37):
interesting relationship with AI, I feel like it slows me down,
so I tend to not lean into it.
But for those people who use AIto create things amazing, great
and just make sure you'reputting your spin on it.
I'm also seeing that even with,like those AI overviews on
Google, that people are stillscrolling down to see what the
articles are actually saying.
(22:58):
Yes, so you know, it's not awaste of your time to lean into
SEO for your website or SEOblogs or anything like that.
Tona (23:05):
Yeah, it's funny that you mentioned AI.
One of my first podcastepisodes was with one of the
founders for Copyai when Copyaicame out.
So that was honestly, I thinktwo, three or so years ago, when
the AI for like Jess for CopyAI were like the big ones at
(23:31):
that time.
And now we have ChatGPT and somany others, but AI can
definitely be used as a greattool to help you get things out
a lot faster, but you also haveto know what it is that you're
doing specifically and infusingthe you into it as well.
Britanny (23:55):
Yeah, your stories, you know, your experiences with
clients, all of those humantouch points are super critical
and they're not going anywhere.
Like people still want that,we're still humans, we still
want that connection and westill want to hear what worked
for you, what didn't work foryou, how did you interact with a
client, all that kind of stuff.
Tona (24:12):
Exactly so.
If someone is on the fenceabout investing in SEO services,
what's one thing you tell themto help them see the value in
working with an expert.
Britanny (24:25):
I don't run into this a whole lot because the people
who come into my world I don'trun into this a whole lot
(24:45):
because the people who come intomy world, they do understand
the value of SEO.
They do have the budget for SEOand if they don't, they've got
the desire to learn it.
And it's a little bit like whatI said at the beginning of this
, where I was like and I'm justreally happy that people are
getting the information any waythey can and implementing it.
But I would just encouragepeople to think about.
I mean, do you want to takeyour business seriously?
Do you want this to be aroundfor a while?
Because if so, you might aswell lean into SEO.
I'd say it's like extra creditfor business owners.
(25:07):
I'd say it's like extra creditfor business owners.
We have websites, we have blogs, we have social media profiles
or some kind of combination ofthose things, so why not go
ahead and optimize them?
You're putting in this time andeffort and often money for
other things, like websitedesign or something like that.
So why not go ahead and makesure that you've got it
optimized so people can find you, because so many entrepreneurs
(25:27):
they get to this point.
We all get to this point, myselfincluded, where it's like are
people actually looking for me?
Do they actually want what Ihave?
When you optimize your stuffand that could be anything like
I was saying website, socialmedia, podcast, whatever when
you optimize your stuff for SEO,you start being matched with
people who are actively lookingfor you.
When you do keyword research,even if you don't know what that
(25:49):
means, people who are activelylooking for you.
When you do keyword research,even if you don't know what that
means, it's just finding wordsthat you can weave into the
existing copy that you have sothat it makes you more findable.
When you start doing that, youstart seeing all these people
coming in and you start gettingthat validation of oh, people
are looking for me, oh, they dowant this thing.
It could even be like I had anexperience with an offer.
I would have the offer on mywebsite.
(26:09):
I would pull it because no onewas coming to it, and I tweaked
it a few times to the pointwhere this year, you know, in a
tiny span, I had like five ofthem that sold within I don't
know two weeks or something.
So it was right.
It was just that willingness tobe curious and to play with it
and say, ok, maybe it's notworking this time, but maybe
it'll work this next time, orsomething.
Tona (26:31):
Exactly, and that's another thing I think with SEO.
There might be tweaks andthings that you have to do, but
it's worth it.
It's worth it in the end onceyou find the combinations that
actually work, because you'llstart to see the results and the
results keep coming over time.
Like I with podcasting, I seethat you know, in the beginning
(26:58):
of course you don't really havea lot of people going to the
podcast because you're juststarting out right, but as you
continue to be consistent andkeep it going and it's still
there, people seem to find youand people seem to enjoy the
content and listen to it andthings like that.
So that's a good thing.
Britanny (27:16):
That's a great thing because, again, like we're all
sharing these things, whetherit's content or our offers, or
we have our businesses we'redoing this for a reason and
maybe the biggest takeaway fromtoday is just get back to that
why, why do you have thisbusiness?
Why do you have this content?
Why and when you have that?
It really helps to tie in tothe who you're helping and how
(27:37):
you're helping them and to whatyou want to be known for.
So I think that that's reallysupportive and that can keep you
going on those days that arereally tough.
That's true.
Tona (27:46):
Without giving away all the secrets.
Can you share a quick successstory where someone so he's
focused on SEO from thebeginning this year he writes
(28:16):
one blog a month and he's beenvery consistent with that.
Britanny (28:19):
But this year he, I think, reached like 90 something
blog posts and his trafficcrossed into like 15,000
visitors per month.
So it's really wild Like itdoes have some big payoffs.
Yes, it takes a little bit oftime, but it has big payoffs.
But he released a product justlast week and we SEO'd it and
everything.
The very next day he got a sale.
(28:41):
He didn't promote it, he didn'tdo anything, like someone found
it.
We could go back and look, butwe were too busy celebrating the
fact that that happened.
So that's one big win.
And you know, I mentionedearlier that it takes a little
bit of time to get that momentumand that every situation is
different.
I mean, he's worked really hardover a long period of time and
(29:04):
he has, you know, such a largeamount of traffic.
Now that he's got that momentumthere, someone may decide to
start focusing on blogging aftergrowing their Instagram profile
to like 200,000 people.
They're going to have a largeamount of people.
So it just depends on, like,what you've got going on as far
as how that will impact SEO andhow quickly that'll work for you
.
Tona (29:24):
But then, yeah, no, I was going to say, that's true, go
ahead.
Britanny (29:29):
I'm so excited to share the other story.
So there was another businessowner where we changed up her
SEO strategy.
She's been in business for, Ithink, somewhere in the two to
three year mark and I wasn'taround for the initial SEO
strategy.
But we did this new SEOstrategy.
We implemented it within thevery first month.
Mind you, she changed heraudience.
She didn't change her offer,but she changed her audience.
(29:50):
So all we did was we wentthrough and we changed a couple
of key pieces.
I'll share a bit about whatthose were, but we did not touch
the main messaging of herwebsite.
So it was still speaking to aslightly different audience, but
with the same offer.
Within the first month of uschanging and I think it was even
just weeks, maybe within thefirst little bit of time of us
changing that she got her firstperson who found her from Google
(30:13):
.
They did a test project.
She's a podcast producer.
They did a test project and theperson booked on for, I don't
know, like a six month packageor something like that.
Tona (30:24):
Yeah, it worked and it worked quickly, wow, and that's
something that is definitelyhelpful.
The one thing that I do letpeople know, especially with SEO
, is that each person's resultsis going to be different based
off a lot of different otherthings.
(30:44):
It's like how long have you hadyour domain name, how long have
you been out there?
Type of thing, becausesometimes when someone has been
out there for a long time, whenthey switch things up with SEO,
they can get results relativelyquickly, but someone else
they're building up the SEO overtime and waiting for Google on
(31:11):
the back end to do its thing inorder to show up in the search
engine.
But the time is going to bewell worth it, because once it
does happen, you'll have all ofthis traffic that's just coming
in, coming in on the regular, soit's a good thing?
Britanny (31:28):
Yeah, exactly it is.
And you bring up a really goodpoint because I had my website
is just britneyhersbergcom.
It's my name, because I knew Iwanted to give myself that
wiggle room to be able to do Ithought different massage
therapy things.
Well, good thing it was just myname, because I went from
massage therapy to my entirewebsite, had to shift over to
SEO and copywriting and that'svery different.
(31:49):
So Google has taken a bit oftime to get it in its head that
oh okay, this is what she does.
This is where we need to showher website.
And just quickly, if anybodywants to nerd out on the stuff
that I did for that podcastproducer client, we changed
something called the H1 headline, so it's that big headline at
the top of your page, and so wewove in some new keywords
(32:11):
relevant to her new audiencethere.
We also changed two pieces thatare what show up on the Google
search results pages.
So if you do a Google search,even if you want to do like a
test one right now, when youlook at the page you're going to
see a blue underlined headlineand then you're going to see a
gray couple of sentencesunderneath.
We completely revamped both ofthose to speak to her new
(32:31):
audience, and so those are thethings that we shifted, and so
it wasn't a big heavy lift.
It probably, you know, weprobably got everything done in
about a day.
But even by just going backthrough those three things on
your pages at least yourhomepage you can, you know, make
some tiny but powerful tweaksto those Exactly.
Tona (32:49):
That will actually have tweaks to those Exactly that
will actually have a lastingimpact.
Yes, so, brittany, is there anylast things that you want to
leave with the audience aboutSEO, any last things that you
would want them to know whenthey're trying to tackle this
SEO for their own businesses?
Mm-hmm, the first thing that'scoming to mind is that it's
(33:10):
never too early, or?
Britanny (33:10):
too late, would want them to know when they're trying
to tackle this SEO for theirown businesses.
The first thing that's comingto mind is that it's never too
early or too late to startworking with SEO, and that
doesn't matter if you're workingwith the same business.
If you have pivoted one or two,or three, or four or five, six
times, it doesn't matter.
That, can you know.
Now is the right time.
You're listening to this,you're hearing this.
Maybe it's kind of been aroundyou for a little bit, like
(33:33):
floating around your businessfor a little while.
You've been seeing it on socialmedia.
You can, you know, dip a toe init in the water Again, like I
said, go back and answer thosethree questions and then just be
intentional with what you'resaying in your messaging
everywhere and you'll see thepayoff.
Tona (33:48):
Well, thank you so much, Brittany, for being here, and
all of Brittany's informationand a link where you can find
her will definitely be in theshow notes description, so you
will be able to connect with herif you want to know a little
bit more about SEO.
But I really appreciate youbeing here, brittany.
So thank you and until nexttime.
Al (34:11):
We're so excited that you tuned in to the latest episode
of the we Pivot podcast.
Thank you for joining us Now,whether this is your first time
or not, please make sure tosubscribe and share with a
friend who can also use somedigital marketing guidance as
well.
Until next time.
The we Pivot podcast is for you if you're a woman who
has recently pivoted intoentrepreneurship.
You'll find digital marketingtips, trends and strategies to
help grow your business intoday's digital world.
Join Tona and Al Haywood as wehave fun breaking down all
things digital marketing.
So sit back, relax and enjoythe show.
(00:26):
Welcome back everyone to the wePivot podcast.
Have you ever thought or heardof the word SEO?
You probably have, but maybeyou don't know a lot about it.
Well, today my guest isBrittany Herzberg.
And do you know where I met her?
I met her on threads, and I'mso glad that she decided to
(00:50):
accept my invitation to be onthe we Pivot podcast.
Hello, brittany, you candefinitely tell the people a
little bit more about yourself.
Britanny (01:02):
Hello, thank you so much for having me.
It was really fun.
I've been meeting a lot ofreally cool people over on
threads and you know I get toshare my story.
I get to invite them to sharetheir story.
All right, so let's see whereshould I even begin?
I guess I'll start back in theday when I was a massage
therapist.
That was my first career and youknow, through a series of
(01:22):
events mostly the pandemichitting being at home, love of
learning, wanting to improvethat business I stumbled upon
the fact that I'm actually apretty darn good copywriter.
And a few years later I wantedto get really good at SEO
because, like you just mentioned, we hear about this thing but
it's very much of like thatsounds scary.
I don't know what that's allabout.
(01:43):
It's intimidating, but it'svery much of like that sounds
scary.
I don't know what that's allabout.
It's intimidating.
So, me being me, I decided oneday that I was just going to
face my fear and figure out whatthis thing was, and once I did,
I saw how simple it could be,how easy it could be, and
nothing I touch now has zero SEO.
Everything has SEO because ofhow beneficial it can be and how
important it is to growing abusiness any kind of business.
(02:05):
So now people can't get me tobe quiet about SEO, but that's
like the super condensed versionof how I got here I like it.
Tona (02:13):
I mean becoming being a massage therapist and into
copywriting.
That had to be a big, a bigchange for you.
A big change for you.
What made you, what led you tomake that shift from massage
therapy into the?
Britanny (02:33):
copywriting and SEO.
Yeah, it was really.
I needed to be locationindependent.
Long story short, my boyfriendand I knew that we didn't want
to live where we were at thetime North Carolina.
We knew we wanted to come backto New England, which is where
he's from, but we didn't knowwhat state, and so our approach
was to go and rent somedifferent Airbnbs, which were
here at the end of 2024.
And we've now been doing thisfor about three years.
(02:55):
Wow, okay.
So it's a lot.
But because of that, I mean, Itried the very first place that
we moved to, to set up a massagestudio, and it was very hard,
it was very challenging.
I mean, it's complicated, and Idon't blame people when you're
announcing to them like, hey,I'm not really sure where I'm
going to be living in six months, but you want to come in for a
massage, and like, what if theyend up liking you and liking
(03:17):
your style?
It's very hard to.
It's a hard style.
So it was at that time where mypractice really wasn't thriving
and I remember so many days justcoming home and, you know,
bawling my eyes out because Iwas like I don't know what I'm
going to do.
But then I remembered that Ihad copywriting.
I had been taking on these sidejobs and, you know, doing
different copywriting projectsfor friends of mine who were
(03:39):
also in the health and wellnessspace.
Because I spoke that language,it was very easy for me to
translate what they were sayingand say it in a way that people
were looking for it, and so Ijust decided to really double
down my efforts on that and Ikept the practice going for a
while.
It was 50-50, where I hadmassage therapy and then also
the copywriting projects.
But at some point I was like,okay, I need to just go all in
(04:01):
on this, and ever since I did,it's been really, really amazing
.
Tona (04:04):
I need to just go all in on this and ever since I did,
it's been really, really amazing.
Yeah, I think that's great.
And then you know, with the wePivot podcast, a lot of people
are coming from different areas.
Anyway, it could be a differentbusiness to a different,
pivoting into a differentbusiness or another career
pivoting into something totallynew.
So I love that something totallynew.
(04:27):
So I love that.
You know, for a lot ofentrepreneurs, especially women
entrepreneurs, our go-to isalways social media.
It's like you know, that's thefirst thing we think about.
That's the place that we putour time and effort and a lot of
times it doesn't really get usthe results that we want after
putting all that time in.
Why do you believe focusing onSEO is better for a long-term
(04:49):
strategy for driving websitetraffic?
Britanny (04:52):
Yeah, I mean, one of the things I say often is that I
help people create contentthat's going to last longer than
the stomach flu, because that'swhat it feels like when we're
posting things to TikTok orInstagram or really any social
media platform.
It has such a finite, teeny,tiny little itty bitty shelf
life, unless we get lucky andsomething gets picked up and it
goes viral.
(05:12):
And usually those things that goviral aren't always the things
that lead people to yourbusiness and really connect with
the offer that you want to sellor how you want to serve people
to sell or you know how youwant to serve people.
So it's not even that I don'tthink SEO is or that I don't
think SEO can even be applied tosocial media, because it can
and we'll touch on that.
But SEO pumping that into anyof your content and into any
(05:37):
place that you are online justhas that longer shelf life.
It has that longevity to it andit also gets better with time.
It's kind of like wine orcheese.
I mean, once you start goingwith it, it takes a little bit
of, there's a little bit of rampup time, usually three to six
months and it totally depends onyour situation, but three to
six months, and then you know,the snowball keeps rolling and
(05:57):
it picks up a lot of extra snowon the way down.
Tona (06:00):
That's true, but I think most times most of us we don't
want to wait for long-termsuccess, we'd rather get it fast
, like the microwave put it inthe microwave and get it back
(06:24):
happens right, you put somethingout there, you get the likes,
you get the follows, you get theshares, but then it's kind of
over With SEO.
You put the work in on frontend, but it seems like it takes
forever for it to actually workand, depending on your situation
, it can take forever before yousee it work.
Britanny (06:40):
But then down the line it starts to work and you're
like oh okay, I'm glad that Iput the work in yeah, for sure,
and I I totally agree with youbecause I do think that's why so
many of us, when we enterentrepreneurship and start our
journey, we do go to socialmedia.
We're told, first of all, thatthat's where you go to even grow
a business.
People expect you.
(07:00):
I mean, if I even think aboutmy own behavior, if I'm going to
a museum or a restaurant orwhatever that thing may be,
whatever that place may be, orwhatever person service provider
I'm looking for, I'm stillchecking Instagram to see if
they're there and to get thatmore personal connection with
them to see what they're like,to kind of do like a vibe check.
So I mean, it's not that that'sgoing to go anywhere, it's just
(07:20):
how can we even set up thatpiece, that social media piece,
your profile, the content thatyou're sharing, the captions,
what they say?
How can we set that up for amore longer term sustainable
marketing channel for you?
And I sort of ran my ownexperiment with this over the
last year and a half, I wouldsay, where I really stopped
posting to Instagram.
(07:41):
But I made sure that my profilewas optimized.
I was in my stories, I was inmy DMs, so I still had those
quick hits.
I was still showing up, I wasstill remaining top of mind, but
I let go of that pressure ofdoing those posts every week.
Now I can see how that fitsinto my marketing strategy.
But I was so hard on myself andit was an all or nothing thing,
so I was like all right, let mejust not worry about this.
(08:02):
For a while.
I still had collaborationscoming in, I still had clients
coming in, I still had referralscoming in because I was still
there and I was still active insome way.
But I just removed the pressurefrom it and I just tried to use
that in a smarter way.
So I feel like I did do a goodjob of that.
And, like I said, I'm notsaying that social media should
go away or shouldn't be part ofyour plan or, you know,
(08:24):
especially if you enjoy it,which I do, if you enjoy it,
like definitely keep it on thetable, but just it.
I want people to think morestrategically and, like you were
talking about more long term,how can we optimize these things
so that they're working for usand not draining us?
Tona (08:39):
Yes, and I think that's where the problem comes in,
because lot of times it drains alot of our energy to be able to
put it into the things thatactually matter long term.
And I do agree with what youwere saying about going viral,
because I remember one of myposts probably it might have
been two years ago, probably twoyears ago now that I did,
(09:02):
probably two years ago now thatI did, and it went viral for me,
which was like 48,000 orsomething views and it was just
me lip syncing to some audio andthat was it, and it went viral.
But that didn't really get meany more follows, that didn't
(09:23):
get me any more emailsubscribers.
That didn't get me any moresales to my website.
It didn't do anything.
But oh yes, I went viral, butthat was it.
So you really have to payattention to those types of
things too, because everythingyou put your time in it doesn't
necessarily move the needle.
Britanny (09:44):
Right, yeah, yeah, and that's a huge point to pay
attention to.
I mean, I've worked with a fewbusiness coaches and that's one
thing that they're always likeokay, what marketing channels do
you have and what's working?
And so many of us are just likeposting to Instagram, just like
constantly doing this activityand feeling like, oh, I'm doing
so much but I'm not getting thereward from it.
But we're not taking that thatminute to what is it?
(10:07):
The phrase is like you have to,you know, pull back in order to
spring forward, kind of like aI'm not even thinking of the,
what it is, but like a slingshot, I guess.
Yes, you have to pull back inorder to, you know, just fire
forward and really have that,that growth and that big
momentum.
So, like we're talking aboutjust the social media and
everything like that, we're busy, busy, busy, busy doing.
(10:28):
But if we take a minute andjust really sit and analyze
what's going on and have a realmoment of truth with ourselves,
what are those activities, whatare those things that are moving
the needle, what do we like,what do we not like, we really
have to sit and analyze all ofthat, agreed.
Tona (10:44):
And if you have people who may be new to SEO, what's the
first thing that they need tounderstand or to do to actually
get started?
Britanny (10:54):
Sometimes it's even just hearing what SEO means,
what it stands for let's go overthe definition.
We're going to go over that.
So SEO if you've never heard itor you have heard it, you're
like what in the world?
Is that?
It stands for search engineoptimization?
So how I define that or how Iexplain that is.
It's really just the thingsthat you're doing in order to
show up as the answer to aGoogled question.
(11:16):
You could replace Google withInstagram.
You could replace Instagramwith Spotify.
There are different searchableplatforms where people are
looking for you, for what you'reoffering, for the solution that
you have, and they're trying tofix a problem or get closer to
a desire.
All of those things are whatenable you to show up and be
there and be there in the rightplace at the right time for the
(11:39):
right person, the right time forthe right person.
So that is what SEO is.
The first thing I encourageanyone who comes into my world
to do is to really sit withthree questions.
Put 15 minutes on the timer.
If you need to Break out a penand notepad or type it out on
your computer or whatever it isthat you need to do, talk it out
.
But I want you to think throughyour answer to these questions.
(12:00):
The first one is who do youhelp?
How do you help them?
And then, what do you want tobe known for?
Or as, and once you have thoseanswers to those questions, you
can really use that as a funnelfor what podcasts you want to go
beyond, what blogs you want towrite, what words you want to
weave into your website copy, oreven what posts you want to
make on social media, eventhreads like what do you want to
(12:23):
be saying over there.
So I feel like that's reallycritical, because then that
gives us a filter and even ifyou do nothing other than answer
those questions, you'll befurther ahead than most other
people in your industry.
Tona (12:35):
I like that, to actually just sit back, take those three
questions and answer them,because a lot of times we're
doing things right, but we dothem because, let's say, we see
someone else who might be in thesame industry that we're in and
so they're doing this.
So let me just try to do whatthey're doing instead of
(12:58):
actually doing that forourselves and figuring out who
is it that we specifically talkto.
Britanny (13:04):
Yeah, and that can be the scary thing.
You know, people talk aboutniching.
That can be the really scarything with identifying a niche
of.
Oh my gosh, I'm committing toyou know, if I take it back to
being a massage therapist At onepoint I was like I work with
you know, desk jockeys, peoplewho work at a desk who have, you
know, chronic pain that they'redealing with.
A lot of times it's lower backpain or migraines.
Once I started saying that Ikept getting those people and,
(13:27):
of course, they have otherranges of issues as well that
they're coming in with but thatreally helps them.
That messaging really helpsthem identify with oh, she could
help me.
Oh, that's maybe what I need.
And we can do the same thingwith online business or whatever
that is.
And you're not married to yourniche.
You're not married to thisthing that you are committing to
(13:47):
, at least for a short period oftime it can be.
I'm committing to this rightnow.
I'm helping people with thisright now.
I'm helping this type of personright now.
Tona (13:55):
And I think that's a better way to frame it too to to
know that this is what I'mdoing right now, because, also,
you never know the niche thatyou pick at the time it may not
work out in the way that youwant it to work out, and so you
may need to pivot.
So, being able to have thatability to pivot if it doesn't
(14:17):
work out for you, it's okay too.
Britanny (14:19):
Yeah, and just giving yourself that permission.
I mean, I'm someone thatthere's something.
There's like a side project I'mworking on right now.
It's just more of like apassion project, but I'm so
committed or I'm so nervous tocommit to it because I'm like
everything has to be perfectbefore I jump into it.
No, it doesn't.
I can figure it out as I'm.
You know, I can fly the plane,build it, pull people on board
at the same time.
I've done it before.
Tona (14:40):
Yes, and I think that I think we have to probably do
better at just kind of puttingit out there, because the sooner
you put it out there, thesooner you get the results that
you need to get in order to makethe tweaks that you need to
make along the way, right.
Britanny (14:58):
Yeah, yeah.
You really have to have theexperience and be in it.
You can't just hypothesizeabout something.
You really have to go and doand be moving and then know what
changes you need to make.
Tona (15:09):
Exactly.
And so what do you think thebiggest misconception about SEO
is that you've seen, and how canyou clear that up for people?
Britanny (15:20):
I have these conversations, I would say at
least weekly, if not daily, andit's really just that SEO is
confusing, it's costly, it'ssuper techie.
You know, I had someone come tome recently and she said I
thought that SEO was all aboutcoding.
I'm like, if SEO was all aboutcoding, I would not be doing it.
People come to me and theythink that I've got a handle on
(15:42):
tech and I really don't.
I know enough to be dangerous,but what I do know is those
three questions who I want towork with, how I want to support
them and what I want to beknown for or as, and so, yeah,
if you focus on those things, alot of SEO is just really simple
and it ties in so closely withyour messaging, it ties in so
(16:02):
closely with your businessvision and, like we were talking
about, that can change, thatcan shift.
We can have absolute fullpermission to let that be
whatever it is for right now andwhatever it needs to shift into
in the future, whatever thatnext version is.
So, yeah, I would just.
You know I actually created afree, private podcast to talk
through all of this stuffbecause there's so much chatter
(16:23):
online about you know, a lot ofthe quote-unquote seo bros who
are out here and they have foundtheir way to threads which I'm
not super happy about.
Really see, I don't see them.
Oh good, I need to come to yourcorner of threat.
Tona (16:35):
Yeah yeah, I think my corner is more of the christian
inspiration.
The Christian inspiration,uplifting prayers, christian
apparel yeah, then they comehang out in your corner.
Britanny (16:48):
Right there you go.
Yeah, because what's happeningwith the SEO?
The air quotes again SEO bros,they're coming over and they're
they're really.
It's a fear-based tactic, as Isee it, where it's like oh, you
know, it's so confusing, it's sothis, it's so that and if
you're doing this thing, you'reA lot of SEO is about intention.
Again, like I said, if you havethose three questions, those
(17:09):
answers to those three questions, the way you speak about what
you do, the way you speak to whoyou want to work with and who
you want to call in, it shiftsand you don't have a lot of
people who are out here with theSEO to try to make it scary so
that you will just comealongside them and have them
pretty much do it for you typething.
Tona (17:41):
Like I would always get and still do get those emails
that say, hey, you need to ranknumber one on Google and call me
so that you can you know, sothat you can rank, and it's like
, well, for some odd reason youmanaged to find me.
So how did you find me if I wasnot ranked Because you got I
(18:04):
mean you got through to theemail and all that.
So there's a way that you haveto do it.
Britanny (18:10):
My favorite part is when they misspell your name on
those things or they like putyou with the wrong.
You know, I've had peopleassume my podcast is my business
and I'm like, no, I don'tappreciate it, you did more
research.
But the scariest part of thatis that people take the bait
because they are fearful, theyare scared and they have people
(18:34):
saying these big words andfeeling like they can step in
and save the day.
And I had one of my friendsspend I think it was between
$10,000 and $15,000 working withan agency and they did nothing.
So that's the scariest part isthat a lot of these things
people take the bait, they spenda lot of money and of course
we're all expecting.
You know, for that amount ofmoney we're expecting quite a
bit and they get absolutelynothing for it.
Tona (18:53):
Wow, and that's scary and that's why kind of knowing the
basics and the foundation isreally helpful so that if you
are trying to partner withsomeone or do this long term,
you know who to work with andwho not to work with.
Britanny (19:11):
Yeah, and you have some discernment about that and
you have even maybe somequestions in mind that you could
use as a little bit of a filterfor someone.
Tona (19:20):
I agree With everything that's changing so fast.
What trends in SEO should we bepaying more attention to in
2025?
I know, I had to think aboutthat.
I'm like where are we heading?
I know when are we headingBecause I don't agree.
Britanny (19:37):
I don't know.
I think what we're going to beseeing more and more of is just
people leaning into SEO.
I saw a lot of that coming upthis last year, in 2024, and
people talking about blogging isback.
Well, you just flashed.
Blogging never went anywhere.
We stopped using blogging, westopped blogging, we stopped
relying on that as the reallysolid marketing channel that it
(19:57):
is.
But those of us are you know, Ihad a blog, but it wasn't
business related but those of uswho have been blogging, or the
businesses who've been doing itsince 2011, 2012, they're doing
really well because they'veestablished this is who I am,
this is who I can help, how Ican help you, this is what I'm
known for.
And sure, they've had pips andpips, pivots and shifts along
(20:18):
the way as well, and it's allgood, that's right.
Tona (20:23):
I agree with that.
I think I see a lot more peopleleaning more so into SEO.
I see a lot of people leaninginto Pinterest, too, as a way to
get people to their websitesand things like that, and
talking more so about long formcontent.
Britanny (20:40):
Yeah.
Tona (20:41):
That's been big lately.
Instead of all of the shortterm, the short term content
that we've seen.
Britanny (20:48):
Yeah, I think people are really valuing their time
and themselves and I thinkthey're finally seeing what has
that long-term payoff and whatdoesn't.
And you hinted at somethingreally huge, which is that, if
you think about it, there'sthree really big channels that
you can use for SEO marketing.
You can have your blog on yourwebsite and please, as a side
(21:10):
note for anyone listening, ifyou're considering a Substack or
a Medium, please rethink thatdecision, because your website
and you are who need that SEOjuice.
Substack, medium, all thoseother platforms they're good.
They're good, they have theirSEO.
They're just using you at thatpoint.
So, if you have a website, ifyou have, of course it doesn't
make sense for everyone, but forthe bulk of business owners and
(21:32):
, I'm sure, the bulk of peoplelistening, it makes more sense
to have a blog on your website,but that's the writing version
of you know the SEO marketing.
Then you have podcasting.
There's podcast SEO.
Surprise, there's also.
You know YouTube.
Or like video SEO.
So, depending on what platformlike, if you like video and
you're like I don't want to giveup doing stuff like Instagram
(21:53):
Reels I'm not saying you have to, no one's saying you have to
but if you want to be smarterabout it.
If you want to be morestrategic and have that long
term vision and that long termeffort and payoff, then do the
you know, do YouTube videos andlean into YouTube SEO.
So again, you've got blogging,you've got videos and you've got
(22:16):
podcasting.
Those are all really greatavenues that a lot of people, I
think, are going to startleaning into.
We may see people doing allthree.
I had a really big, you knowdream slash goal of doing that
in 2024.
And I was able to hit two.
I wasn't able to hit YouTubeSEO.
That's all good, like maybeI'll, maybe it'll happen in 2025
.
But I think we're going to seemore people doing that.
I'm noticing also, like justwith AI.
Because everyone wants to talkabout AI and I have a very
(22:37):
interesting relationship with AI, I feel like it slows me down,
so I tend to not lean into it.
But for those people who use AIto create things amazing, great
and just make sure you'reputting your spin on it.
I'm also seeing that even with,like those AI overviews on
Google, that people are stillscrolling down to see what the
articles are actually saying.
(22:58):
Yes, so you know, it's not awaste of your time to lean into
SEO for your website or SEOblogs or anything like that.
Tona (23:05):
Yeah, it's funny that you mentioned AI.
One of my first podcastepisodes was with one of the
founders for Copyai when Copyaicame out.
So that was honestly, I thinktwo, three or so years ago, when
the AI for like Jess for CopyAI were like the big ones at
(23:31):
that time.
And now we have ChatGPT and somany others, but AI can
definitely be used as a greattool to help you get things out
a lot faster, but you also haveto know what it is that you're
doing specifically and infusingthe you into it as well.
Britanny (23:55):
Yeah, your stories, you know, your experiences with
clients, all of those humantouch points are super critical
and they're not going anywhere.
Like people still want that,we're still humans, we still
want that connection and westill want to hear what worked
for you, what didn't work foryou, how did you interact with a
client, all that kind of stuff.
Tona (24:12):
Exactly so.
If someone is on the fenceabout investing in SEO services,
what's one thing you tell themto help them see the value in
working with an expert.
Britanny (24:25):
I don't run into this a whole lot because the people
who come into my world I don'trun into this a whole lot
(24:45):
because the people who come intomy world, they do understand
the value of SEO.
They do have the budget for SEOand if they don't, they've got
the desire to learn it.
And it's a little bit like whatI said at the beginning of this
, where I was like and I'm justreally happy that people are
getting the information any waythey can and implementing it.
But I would just encouragepeople to think about.
I mean, do you want to takeyour business seriously?
Do you want this to be aroundfor a while?
Because if so, you might aswell lean into SEO.
I'd say it's like extra creditfor business owners.
(25:07):
I'd say it's like extra creditfor business owners.
We have websites, we have blogs, we have social media profiles
or some kind of combination ofthose things, so why not go
ahead and optimize them?
You're putting in this time andeffort and often money for
other things, like websitedesign or something like that.
So why not go ahead and makesure that you've got it
optimized so people can find you, because so many entrepreneurs
(25:27):
they get to this point.
We all get to this point, myselfincluded, where it's like are
people actually looking for me?
Do they actually want what Ihave?
When you optimize your stuffand that could be anything like
I was saying website, socialmedia, podcast, whatever when
you optimize your stuff for SEO,you start being matched with
people who are actively lookingfor you.
When you do keyword research,even if you don't know what that
(25:49):
means, people who are activelylooking for you.
When you do keyword research,even if you don't know what that
means, it's just finding wordsthat you can weave into the
existing copy that you have sothat it makes you more findable.
When you start doing that, youstart seeing all these people
coming in and you start gettingthat validation of oh, people
are looking for me, oh, they dowant this thing.
It could even be like I had anexperience with an offer.
I would have the offer on mywebsite.
(26:09):
I would pull it because no onewas coming to it, and I tweaked
it a few times to the pointwhere this year, you know, in a
tiny span, I had like five ofthem that sold within I don't
know two weeks or something.
So it was right.
It was just that willingness tobe curious and to play with it
and say, ok, maybe it's notworking this time, but maybe
it'll work this next time, orsomething.
Tona (26:31):
Exactly, and that's another thing I think with SEO.
There might be tweaks andthings that you have to do, but
it's worth it.
It's worth it in the end onceyou find the combinations that
actually work, because you'llstart to see the results and the
results keep coming over time.
Like I with podcasting, I seethat you know, in the beginning
(26:58):
of course you don't really havea lot of people going to the
podcast because you're juststarting out right, but as you
continue to be consistent andkeep it going and it's still
there, people seem to find youand people seem to enjoy the
content and listen to it andthings like that.
So that's a good thing.
Britanny (27:16):
That's a great thing because, again, like we're all
sharing these things, whetherit's content or our offers, or
we have our businesses we'redoing this for a reason and
maybe the biggest takeaway fromtoday is just get back to that
why, why do you have thisbusiness?
Why do you have this content?
Why and when you have that?
It really helps to tie in tothe who you're helping and how
(27:37):
you're helping them and to whatyou want to be known for.
So I think that that's reallysupportive and that can keep you
going on those days that arereally tough.
That's true.
Tona (27:46):
Without giving away all the secrets.
Can you share a quick successstory where someone so he's
focused on SEO from thebeginning this year he writes
(28:16):
one blog a month and he's beenvery consistent with that.
Britanny (28:19):
But this year he, I think, reached like 90 something
blog posts and his trafficcrossed into like 15,000
visitors per month.
So it's really wild Like itdoes have some big payoffs.
Yes, it takes a little bit oftime, but it has big payoffs.
But he released a product justlast week and we SEO'd it and
everything.
The very next day he got a sale.
(28:41):
He didn't promote it, he didn'tdo anything, like someone found
it.
We could go back and look, butwe were too busy celebrating the
fact that that happened.
So that's one big win.
And you know, I mentionedearlier that it takes a little
bit of time to get that momentumand that every situation is
different.
I mean, he's worked really hardover a long period of time and
(29:04):
he has, you know, such a largeamount of traffic.
Now that he's got that momentumthere, someone may decide to
start focusing on blogging aftergrowing their Instagram profile
to like 200,000 people.
They're going to have a largeamount of people.
So it just depends on, like,what you've got going on as far
as how that will impact SEO andhow quickly that'll work for you
.
Tona (29:24):
But then, yeah, no, I was going to say, that's true, go
ahead.
Britanny (29:29):
I'm so excited to share the other story.
So there was another businessowner where we changed up her
SEO strategy.
She's been in business for, Ithink, somewhere in the two to
three year mark and I wasn'taround for the initial SEO
strategy.
But we did this new SEOstrategy.
We implemented it within thevery first month.
Mind you, she changed heraudience.
She didn't change her offer,but she changed her audience.
(29:50):
So all we did was we wentthrough and we changed a couple
of key pieces.
I'll share a bit about whatthose were, but we did not touch
the main messaging of herwebsite.
So it was still speaking to aslightly different audience, but
with the same offer.
Within the first month of uschanging and I think it was even
just weeks, maybe within thefirst little bit of time of us
changing that she got her firstperson who found her from Google
(30:13):
.
They did a test project.
She's a podcast producer.
They did a test project and theperson booked on for, I don't
know, like a six month packageor something like that.
Tona (30:24):
Yeah, it worked and it worked quickly, wow, and that's
something that is definitelyhelpful.
The one thing that I do letpeople know, especially with SEO
, is that each person's resultsis going to be different based
off a lot of different otherthings.
(30:44):
It's like how long have you hadyour domain name, how long have
you been out there?
Type of thing, becausesometimes when someone has been
out there for a long time, whenthey switch things up with SEO,
they can get results relativelyquickly, but someone else
they're building up the SEO overtime and waiting for Google on
(31:11):
the back end to do its thing inorder to show up in the search
engine.
But the time is going to bewell worth it, because once it
does happen, you'll have all ofthis traffic that's just coming
in, coming in on the regular, soit's a good thing?
Britanny (31:28):
Yeah, exactly it is.
And you bring up a really goodpoint because I had my website
is just britneyhersbergcom.
It's my name, because I knew Iwanted to give myself that
wiggle room to be able to do Ithought different massage
therapy things.
Well, good thing it was just myname, because I went from
massage therapy to my entirewebsite, had to shift over to
SEO and copywriting and that'svery different.
(31:49):
So Google has taken a bit oftime to get it in its head that
oh okay, this is what she does.
This is where we need to showher website.
And just quickly, if anybodywants to nerd out on the stuff
that I did for that podcastproducer client, we changed
something called the H1 headline, so it's that big headline at
the top of your page, and so wewove in some new keywords
(32:11):
relevant to her new audiencethere.
We also changed two pieces thatare what show up on the Google
search results pages.
So if you do a Google search,even if you want to do like a
test one right now, when youlook at the page you're going to
see a blue underlined headlineand then you're going to see a
gray couple of sentencesunderneath.
We completely revamped both ofthose to speak to her new
(32:31):
audience, and so those are thethings that we shifted, and so
it wasn't a big heavy lift.
It probably, you know, weprobably got everything done in
about a day.
But even by just going backthrough those three things on
your pages at least yourhomepage you can, you know, make
some tiny but powerful tweaksto those Exactly.
Tona (32:49):
That will actually have tweaks to those Exactly that
will actually have a lastingimpact.
Yes, so, brittany, is there anylast things that you want to
leave with the audience aboutSEO, any last things that you
would want them to know whenthey're trying to tackle this
SEO for their own businesses?
Mm-hmm, the first thing that'scoming to mind is that it's
(33:10):
never too early, or?
Britanny (33:10):
too late, would want them to know when they're trying
to tackle this SEO for theirown businesses.
The first thing that's comingto mind is that it's never too
early or too late to startworking with SEO, and that
doesn't matter if you're workingwith the same business.
If you have pivoted one or two,or three, or four or five, six
times, it doesn't matter.
That, can you know.
Now is the right time.
You're listening to this,you're hearing this.
Maybe it's kind of been aroundyou for a little bit, like
(33:33):
floating around your businessfor a little while.
You've been seeing it on socialmedia.
You can, you know, dip a toe init in the water Again, like I
said, go back and answer thosethree questions and then just be
intentional with what you'resaying in your messaging
everywhere and you'll see thepayoff.
Tona (33:48):
Well, thank you so much, Brittany, for being here, and
all of Brittany's informationand a link where you can find
her will definitely be in theshow notes description, so you
will be able to connect with herif you want to know a little
bit more about SEO.
But I really appreciate youbeing here, brittany.
So thank you and until nexttime.
Al (34:11):
We're so excited that you tuned in to the latest episode
of the we Pivot podcast.
Thank you for joining us Now,whether this is your first time
or not, please make sure tosubscribe and share with a
friend who can also use somedigital marketing guidance as
well.
Until next time.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.