January 14, 2025 • 35 mins
Dealing with unspoken grief is a silent battle many face, especially after the loss of a loved one to suicide. In this powerful episode of The Wellness Connection, Fiona Kane speaks with Mick Rowe, host of the Suicide Sucks podcast, about the raw and often hidden emotions that surface through grief, including deep anger.
Mick shares her deeply personal story of losing his brother, the physical toll of unresolved emotions, and how holistic tools like kinesiology and connection to nature helped her find healing. Together, they unpack the complex layers of loss, anger, and how speaking openly can pave the way to recovery.
If you’ve ever struggled to process grief, or want to support someone who has, this conversation will leave you feeling seen, supported, and inspired.
🔗 Listen now and join us in having real conversations about things that matter.
Contacts for Mick Rowe:
Website: https://www.suicidesucks.co.uk/
Spotify: Suicide Sucks
Facebook:
Mick Rowe - https://www.facebook.com/michaela.rowe.775
Suicide Sucks CIC - https://www.facebook.com/suicidesuck5
Tik Tok & Instagram: Suicidesuck5
Stan Store – Digital Reconnect with Nature Experience
https://stan.store/TimeForMeTribe
You Tube: https://www.youtube.com/@SuicideSucks
Learn more about booking a nutrition consultation with Fiona: https://informedhealth.com.au/
Learn more about Fiona's speaking and media services: https://fionakane.com.au/
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Credit for the music used in this podcast:
The Beat of Nature
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Fiona Kane (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the Wellness Connection podcast
with Fiona Kane.
Today I have another guest andwe're going to be talking about
a few things, but we'reessentially going to be talking
about loss and anger and howthese things can affect our
health.
So, without delay, I'm going tointroduce Mick Rowe.
Hi, Mick.
Mick Rowe (00:21):
Hi Fiona.
Fiona Kane (00:23):
For those who don't know, you give us a little bit
of your background.
Mick Rowe (00:27):
Yeah, of course.
So my name is Mick Rowe and Ihost a podcast called Suicide
Sucks, which ultimately, Iinterview guests who have made
attempts on their life but arestill here to tell the tale.
Their life but are still hereto tell the tale, hopefully
(00:50):
offering hope and showing thatyou know there is another
solution to the problems thatpeople may be suffering from.
It took me a long time to getthere.
I had a lot of anger to dealwith because I lost my brother
to suicide in 96.
And, as a spinoff from thepodcast, the importance of
(01:13):
health and wellbeing andbasically spending time in
nature has become a focus for meand I well-being sessions and
an online experience to helppeople really connect with
nature.
Fiona Kane (01:32):
Yeah, it's such a.
It's just something about whenI if my headspace isn't so good,
I sort of go outside.
There's something about nature.
It's it's grounding, it'sbigger than you, it's.
It's a lot of beauty in natureas well.
There's just something reallyhealing about nature.
It's grounding, it's biggerthan you.
It's a lot of beauty in natureas well.
There's just something reallyhealing about nature, and I know
for my own mental health I findit really useful.
So it's great that that's partof what you're doing there.
Mick Rowe (01:55):
Absolutely so a little bit about how I set up
and why I set up Suicide Sucks.
So I mentioned that I'd lost mybrother to.
He took his own life and Ithink it probably took me a good
25 years to get over it.
If I'm honest, I thought I wasover it.
(02:16):
I thought I dealt with it.
I was 22 when it happened andyou know, quite quickly after I
thought I'd dealt with it.
But you know griefs, oh God,it's um an incredible thing and
all those stages that you gothrough, and not necessarily in
any particular order, and it cancome at you wham, bam, and
(02:41):
that's basically what happenedto me.
I suffered two slipped discsand sciatica about six years ago
and I was completely out ofaction for about nine months in
total.
Now that basically that was theemotional pain that I hadn't
(03:08):
dealt with, manifesting itselfin my body as physical pain and
my body was literally saying youneed to deal with this and
you're not going anywhere untilyou have.
So I went through I mean, I wasbooked in for an operation and
everything uh, micro discectomyand I tried everything.
(03:32):
I was one of those that wouldtry anything going.
You know, acupuncture, reiki,um mindfulness, which was
another thing that did helpactually.
Um, but, yeah, I triedeverything and, strangely, at
the same time, my other brotherwas training to be a
kinesiologist in London and heneeded somebody to experiment on
(03:59):
really.
So he used me.
And for those who don't know,so he used me.
And for those who don't know,kinesiology is a really strange
thing.
It's very holistic and it takeson about five different
categories to do with physical,the physiology aspect of it.
(04:20):
It takes on board any allergiesand intolerances that your body
may have.
It uses acupuncture, it usesvisualization, so it treats like
everything.
And, uh, if I can, I'll tellabout the experience that I had
(04:42):
where I dealt with the grief, Ibelieve, of my other brother,
james.
Yeah, so there was this oneparticular incident where he, my
brother, got me to do thisvisualisation so I would be laid
.
You know, it was like atreatment bed, laid on a
(05:04):
treatment bed bed, and he got meto to tell me what was the
biggest emotion I was feeling atthat time and I was like anger
and he got me to really talkabout anger and what was I angry
about?
And you know, it was James whohad taken his own life and and
(05:25):
he said right, you know, youknow, really, hold on to that
anger.
He said now what I want you todo is I want you to imagine that
you are like a knight inshining armour and you're
completely covered in armour iton the floor.
(05:48):
So, you know, suspended mydisbelief and started taking
these pieces of armor off andthrowing them on the floor, bit
by bit.
And then he said right, there'sa big pile now of this metal on
the floor.
And again he told me to suspendmy disbelief.
He said we're going to get amatch and we're going to light
that metal.
So I did it and lit it.
And he said right, it's nowstarting to melt and it's
(06:08):
getting smaller and smalleruntil it's a tiny little puddle
on the ground, and then there'sone little drop and it's gone
into the ground and it's gonefor good.
And then he said right, what Iwant you to do now is I want you
to conjure up that anger thatyou felt before.
And I was just.
(06:29):
I mean, it was silent for a bit, and then I just absolutely
burst into hysterics, intolaughter.
It was.
I couldn't do it.
I could not recall that deepemotion of anger and I was just
lying there on this bed,absolute tears streaming down my
face, and then he startedlaughing and I said you know,
(06:52):
don't you?
He said what?
What I said I can't do it, Ican't do it.
And it was just the mostamazing experience.
And I mean it didn't happeninstantly, but gradually, like
two weeks later.
I, I canceled the appointment,the operation, I didn't need it
(07:13):
and I, I've been touched, I'venot had a problem since, you
know, and I am convinced that itwas that blockage of the
emotion that needed to bereleased.
Fiona Kane (07:29):
I've had a few kinesiologists on the podcast
over the last year or so andheard all sorts of amazing
stories about how it works forpeople.
And I don't know how it worksor why it works, but it seems to
work and really there's nothingto lose, is there?
So, uh, so it's, it's, it'spretty amazing story and just
(07:50):
being able to let go at, did youeven, did you even realize that
you had that much anger, like,was that, was that sort of
obvious to you before that?
No, so you didn't realize it.
Mick Rowe (08:00):
no, yeah, no, not at all.
If somebody had ever asked me,you know, you know how do you
feel you're angry about, angryabout it and I'd have been like
no, no, you know, but yeah, Iwas like because, when you've
lost someone uh, the?
Fiona Kane (08:14):
I suppose the last thing you want to do is is um
acknowledge any anger around it,and there's so many other
feelings that, uh, you know, butit's, I think, in my experience
(08:37):
of talking to people who'vebeen through this, I I think
that, uh, anger is definitelyone of those things that comes
up, but it's one of the lesssort of acceptable feelings or
it doesn't feel right or okay tohave that feeling.
Mick Rowe (08:50):
Yeah, I think it's looked on as a negative emotion,
isn't it?
And yet you know, really, weneed to embrace all of them,
yeah, yeah.
Fiona Kane (09:01):
And it's only natural that you would feel all
of them as well, because it'sjust so devastating and so
shocking, and I imagine thatthere'd be a level of you know,
because when someone does that,it doesn't just inflict a
problem for them, it's theirwhole family and all their loved
ones and everyone who suffers.
(09:21):
So I can only imagine you'd befeeling how could you have done
this?
to be feeling how could you havedone this to us, how could you
have done this to me, so yeah,and also the waste, the waste
when, when the beautiful life isis gone, uh, you know, the
waste about all of the thingsthat could have been and would
have been, and all of that.
Mick Rowe (09:37):
So I can only imagine that all of those, all of those
emotions would have been thereyeah, and it wasn't really until
, obviously, I dealt with allthose emotions that I could then
move on and actually dosomething.
You know, I kind of felt likeI'd got this chance to now, now
that because I felt like I haddealt with it, I could actually
(10:00):
do something good.
So that's kind of why I set upthe podcast, because I kept
thinking that what could havehelped him and potentially, if
he'd have had the opportunity tolisten to somebody who was
telling their story and it wasexactly like his, but this
person had made attempts but gotthrough it.
(10:22):
I mean, that's got to be abeacon of hope for somebody to
think, oh well, I might try whathe tried, you know yeah and uh,
and, and how are you finding,like, how long have you had this
podcast for?
Fiona Kane (10:40):
um, how many people have you spoken?
Mick Rowe (10:42):
yeah, so I've kind of properly started working on it
from March and I so far I'veinterviewed I think I've got
about 15 episodes out there umin September I went on a road
trip in my camper van because Iactually record the interviews
in my camper van.
So it's a little bit quirky, andit's I do it because it's
(11:05):
private for a start.
You know, nobody can interruptyou, we can stick the kettle on.
Uh, I've normally got my dogwith me, so he kind of chills
everything out a bit as well,and everybody that's come on
says that you know, it's areally a really cozy, peaceful
and safe, is it?
Fiona Kane (11:23):
online or do they come into the camper van with
you?
Mick Rowe (11:26):
they come into the camper van with me in person.
Yes, yeah, it's lovely and I'vedone a few because I've,
because I've had people inamerica that have wanted to to
come on.
Fiona Kane (11:36):
I have done a few on zoom and things, but I much
prefer the, the face-to-face andfor those who didn't pick up
the accent, of course everyoneknows I'm australian, but you're
in the uk, yeah exactly, but so, yeah, the one thing about the
podcast as well is thateverybody's story is different.
Mick Rowe (11:57):
But you're in the UK, yeah, exactly, but so, yeah,
the one thing about the podcastas well is that everybody's
story is different.
Yes, you know, you sometimesworry, don't you, that there's
going to be too manysimilarities with somebody else,
and da, da, da, da.
But we're all so unique andevery time somebody gets in the
camper with me, I'm literally myjaw hits the floor because I'm
like, oh my God, you know,that's just incredible what
you've gone through.
So it's really humbling and Ilove it.
(12:20):
I do love it, and we have a bitof a joke as well.
It's not like doom and gloom,it's all about hope and
positivity.
Fiona Kane (12:26):
Yes, yeah, and that's the whole point too, too,
because I think that in myexperience, our society hasn't
been well.
I speak for Western society, orat least where I'm from, anyway
, in Australia.
I know that these issues arethings that we haven't.
Especially when I was younger,people really didn't talk about
these things, or if things likethis happened, you know it would
(12:50):
be hushed tones and whatever,but no one would actually sort
of stop and actually really talkabout the issues and talk about
what could have made adifference or what might make a
difference in the future, all ofthose things.
And so it's really reallyimportant to as human beings
it's funny because we don't.
We often, often want to avoidexploring the hard stuff, but
(13:13):
it's actually the hard stuff.
I find that is if you, ifyou're willing to look at it and
you're willing to explore it,that's also, I think, where the
most healing comes in and themost uh, where you learn how to
be a bit more robust and a bitmore resilient in life is when
you are willing to talk aboutand be present with the hard
stuff.
What are your thoughts?
Mick Rowe (13:35):
on that?
Yeah, definitely.
And I think it's not untilyou've dealt with the hard stuff
that you can attract the goodstuff.
Because that's another thing.
You know we all get into thisterrible negative thought loop.
You know, once somethinghappens that you know isn't
(13:58):
great for us, it's so easy, youknow we've all been to a place
where you know we just a bit.
You know everything's goingwrong and it's so easy to take
that one thought and for it tobecome all-encompassing.
And I suppose that is withrelation to the common aspects
(14:21):
of somebody feeling disconnectedif they're having thoughts of
taking their own life wherenature comes in, own life where
nature comes in.
And what made me try and tacklethat as a way to, you know well
(14:45):
, create a connection really,and maybe just having a
connection with nature can bethe start of connecting with
others even.
You know, I mean we live in asociety now that there's so
little connection, you know, andsociable contact, and I just
think it's really important thatwe find that sense of
connection.
(15:06):
So I do sessions locally, inperson, where we spend the hour
practicing gratitude, we awakenour senses.
We do it in this place calledthe Healing Grove.
I mean you couldn't get anybetter.
We do an activity which isart-based or word-based, and
(15:28):
then we do some grounding andI'm always amazed that people
will even if it's freezing coldhere in the UK, you know, get
their socks and shoes off and,you know, join me in a
visualization to you know,really ground and it's such a,
it's such a lovely feeling thatyou're not just connected with
(15:48):
the earth, but you're connectedwith the people around you.
It's amazing that you're notjust connected with the earth,
but you're connected with thepeople around you.
Fiona Kane (15:53):
It's amazing.
Yes, yeah, and you're right inregards to connection, and I say
this over and over againbecause it comes up on so many
episodes.
But you know, when we look atthe longest study on longevity
and on keeping your facultiesfor as long as possible, they
were looking for the answer towhat it was, that it wasn't
(16:16):
going to be a cholesterol numberor what factor was it going to
be?
And it came down to connectionand it came down to someone
having your back as being themost important things for
longevity and for that cognitivefunction as we get older.
And it's weird because we're inthis world now like where you
and I are on opposite sides ofthe world having this
(16:37):
conversation.
So in some ways now we're moreconnected than ever, but we are
but we aren't, so it's more of adiscombobulated connection
where we might have, you know,people will have so many,
there'll be an influencer orthey'll have so many followers
or they get so many likes onevery time they do a post or a
photo or something like that.
(16:58):
But there's a big differencebetween someone liking your post
or whatever, and realconnection, and it's real
connection that I think thatwe're missing out on more than
ever now.
Mick Rowe (17:11):
Absolutely yeah, and I think there's a missing out on
more than ever now.
Absolutely yeah, and I thinkthere's a lot of people who are
stuck in their homes as well.
You know, I mean, I knowthere's not lockdown anymore,
but there are some people who Istill don't think are
comfortable leaving their houses.
I mean, the rates for thingslike agoraphobia and, you know,
social anxiety, they're justhuge.
(17:33):
Yes, and in fact, I've gotrelatives who have agoraphobia,
and that was one of the reasonswhy I designed this.
It's only a short onlineexperience, but I did a course
with the University of Derbyhere and it basically it's now
scientifically proven that thebenefits of connecting with
(17:54):
nature are the same if you do itdigitally.
So having audios and videos andreally immersing yourself
within those can have the samebenefits.
And that's mind-blowing, matt.
I think that's incredible.
Fiona Kane (18:10):
So if you're listening to it on your
meditation app and you'relistening to on your, you know
your meditation app.
And you're listening to a stormor you know whatever the sound
is a natural sounds that willstill work yeah, yeah, it's
incredible yeah, yeah, a friendof mine does hypnotherapy and
and she she explained a study tome once where I think it was
like a basketball team and theydid the comparison between a
(18:33):
basketball team that did lotsand lots of practice a
basketball team that did lotsand lots of practice and also
did visualizations of winningthe game and a basketball team
that only laid on the court anddid visualizations.
Wow, and it was the ones thatdid the visualizations only.
I think that were the ones thatactually had the most success.
Mick Rowe (18:52):
So they laid there on the court and imagined how the
game would go, and it is verypowerful that is amazing and I
believe, like a lot of theOlympic teams do the same thing
now they have like kind of aspiritual coach or well-being
coach.
That will encourage this wholevisualization.
Fiona Kane (19:12):
yeah, and it's the same with um with power poses.
So I think her name was amycuddy.
I did a ted talk about thoseand she was.
If I'm talking about the rightperson, I think it's the right
person anyway.
Um, and she talked about powerposes and uh, and she did
studies that I think it mighthave been harvard or somewhere,
and uh, they found so the powerposes are like where you kind of
(19:33):
do like Wonder Woman orSuperman and you sort of stand
in those stance, you know soWonder Woman's, you know the
legs apart, yeah, which isanyone listening and not
watching.
You know the Wonder Woman posewhere she's got her hands on her
hips sort of thing, or Supermanwould be, you know, the arms in
the air, air, like Superman.
What they found is that whenyou do that it reduces your
(19:58):
stress hormones and increasesyour testosterone, which helps
you get through a challengingevent.
So they looked at it for thingslike exams or job interviews or
that kind of thing.
But they also found that itworked, even if someone who
wasn't able to do that maybesomeone who's not physically
able to to do that pose.
But if they imagined themselvesdoing the pose, they also got
(20:20):
the same benefit because theywere testing the hormones and
things.
So, yeah, you're absolutelyright, that's very powerful what
we can do, whether it be ameditation app or whether it be
the videos or whatever.
Yeah, really, really powerfulstuff.
So it's great if you can get outinto nature and you know,
obviously I'd highly advise it.
And the difference is that, youknow I'm in Australia now where
(20:41):
it's, you know, 30 to 40degrees, which actually is a bit
too hot, the other way Celsius,and you're somewhere where it's
like 11 degrees top of 11 todaythat you said.
Mick Rowe (20:54):
Yeah, I and you're somewhere where it's like 11
degree top of 11.
Today I think you said I don'teven get that in summer, you
know.
I mean it's like the hottestbecause honestly, I mean maybe
28 every now and then, but 21 isthe norm.
Fiona Kane (21:00):
Yes, yes, I always have a bit of a laugh actually,
because in winter here, if I'mfeeling a bit sad about the
weather, I always look up theweather.
I know it's not where you are,but I always I look, I look up
the weather in Glasgow, right?
So when is rain here and coldin Glasgow in their summer than
it is here in our winter inSydney?
So I was like, okay, I lookedat the weather in Glasgow, I
(21:22):
feel better about winter inSydney.
Now I'm going to get overmyself.
That's brilliant, I love it.
So I know we haven't got a lotof time, but just with the time
we do have, I suppose just alittle bit more about.
Look, I think that what you'redoing is amazing and I think
it's really powerful and I feellike getting that message out,
(21:47):
especially now, because podcastsare just such, they're the way
to go, they're so powerful andso accessible that this is
making a real difference and youmust at some level, sort of
feel like you know if there'seven one person that you could
save, that you know sort of inyour brother's name sort of
(22:10):
thing.
It's like someone who doesn'tgo through what your family's
been through, you know that it'sworked, yeah.
Mick Rowe (22:19):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I'm so obviously sopassionate about it and the fact
that people want to talk aboutit is also so evident.
You know they want to chat andthey want to chat about all of
it.
You know, now I have to.
I do have to cut some out,because there's certain things
(22:42):
you're not allowed to talk about, which frustrates me, because
they want to talk about it andactually to me, somebody
listening might not feel soalone or think that they're the
only ones who have ever feltlike that if they were to hear
all of the nitty-gritty.
(23:02):
So there's certain things wecan't touch on.
But it is still very open andhonest and, as ever with things
like this, this it's never justone thing.
You know, there's normally fouror five things and they've all
started to just, you know, buckup against each other, and then
(23:24):
there's one thing that willbreak the camel's back, so to
speak, and and and.
That's they'll talk about itall, but they'll all have a
different thing that helped them, be it.
A lot of people might have thetalking therapies that are
really big.
That's helped them, but thenfor someone else, they don't do
(23:51):
something physical or practical.
So that's really interesting aswell, that there's a different
way for each person that gotthem through it, so to speak.
The last lady I spoke to.
It was all about art andcreativity and that was just
what somehow she connected withand that then got her through
(24:14):
each day.
So it's very special to hearthe stories and I'm always so
excited to get a new member inthe camper van.
And you know I've obviously gotlots booked in and lots to come
up.
Fiona Kane (24:30):
Yeah, and I actually think that's a really important
point that you raised there too, with all of the different
things that work for differentpeople.
Because I find this now thateven just you know, there's a
big push in the last few yearsin regards to men's health and
men's mental health.
You know, for very good reason,and I, you know, we sort of.
I find that sometimes we, whenwe're talking about, oh, you
(24:52):
know, men should do this, or menshould do that, or they should
talk more or whatever, and look,obviously it's great if they
can and there's, like you said,there's nothing wrong with talk
therapy and being able to talkand all those things.
But I think it is actuallyimportant whether it's men,
woman, whoever, but it'simportant to acknowledge that
just different things might bethe key for different people and
(25:14):
it doesn't it.
There's not one, you know,there's not one way of doing
this and in so.
So for some people they willreally benefit from the talking
and they've got to learn to openup more and talk, and someone
else might not be that wayinclined, but it doesn't mean
there's not other usefulstrategies that will help them,
and I think it is.
It is good to be open to thatand so, absolutely, if people
(25:35):
listen to those episodes, theremight be one where they think,
oh, I just don't relate to thatat all, but another one they'll
listen to and go, okay, there'sthe key in, and that's the thing
.
It's like finding that key infor that person and we're not,
all you know, like I could talkto the cows.
Come home and I'm a woman and Ilike to talk about my feelings
and my thoughts and you can'tshut me up.
(25:56):
But not everyone not everyone isme and I sort of you can't sort
of put that onto other people,oh, you should do it this way or
whatever.
So I actually really love that.
It's just opening up theconversation of what are all the
different ways that people can,uh, can, yeah and sometimes
it's not even the first.
Mick Rowe (26:14):
You know they've tried four or five things before
they've got to the one thatworks.
So yeah, and I mean the agerange as well, I mean I've got.
There's a girl who's in her 20swho suffered bulimia rape.
Um, lost a job, lost her fiance, so much and then to a man in
(26:37):
his he's 70 now.
He's one of my best mates whowent who who lost his job.
He was a really high-poweredcareer man and he lost his job
in his 30s to a back injury andhe was basically told he would
never work again and he was topof his company with a family to
support.
And that was just the start forhim and he had a terrible
(27:00):
alcohol problem which led toother things and it's it's
amazing that the the breadth ofthings that people have to deal
with and are happy to talk about.
Fiona Kane (27:15):
Yeah, for sure.
And is there anything in, Isuppose, in sort of winding up?
Is there anything in particular?
Because obviously this is ahuge topic?
We could talk for hours, but wedon't have hours today, but is
there anything that you havelearned, or any lessons that
you've learned that you thinkthat would be really valuable
for my listeners and watcherstoday in regards to this topic,
(27:39):
any sort of wisdom that youcould share?
Mick Rowe (27:42):
I think a couple of things.
I think just being open, asopen as you can be, to trying
something new.
So if there are people who areyour listeners who are having
thoughts of ending their ownlife, there is support there and
(28:04):
it doesn't have to be themedical kind, which often
doesn't work for people becausethat person hasn't necessarily
stood in their shoes.
You know, there's an amazingcommunity online now and I think
it's really important that,whether somebody admits it or
not, we have all had dark daysand you know it's important to
(28:31):
know whatever's going on andwhatever people portray.
Everybody's been at that lowpoint and it might be that if
you talk about it to them, itcould help them.
So that's another thing.
People worry, I think, thatthey're going to be a burden on
other people, but maybe youdon't know what's going on in
(28:53):
that person's mind.
You could inadvertently behelping them.
Yes, biggest thing that I canrecommend to anybody who is
(29:13):
worried about somebody is to askthe question, is to literally
say not, are you okay?
You know how's it going, butare you having suicidal thoughts
?
Because as soon as you use thelanguage, the person you're
talking to, the person you'retalking to, you can see them
(29:34):
physically like relaxed, becauseyou've opened up, you've lifted
the barrier, you've opened upthe dialogue and that person
realizes that they don't have tohide anything, okay, so, not
being afraid of just beingnaming the elephant in the room,
being really blunt and justsaying it as it is, as opposed
(29:56):
to kind of like pussyfootingaround oh, are you okay.
Fiona Kane (29:59):
So it's like just that really direct can make all
the difference because it sortof like puts a spotlight on and
and and kind of opens the doorfor them.
Like you said, uh, that abilityto kind of oh, I've been seen.
Okay, because it's such ahidden thing, isn't that too,
that they sort of uh, you know,and before, when you said in
regards to sharing, yeah, it'sfirst of all, when you see how
(30:21):
many people go through theseissues, uh, we're talking about
connection.
It's so common.
So, you know, people think it'sjust them, but it's so, not
just them.
But the other thing too is thatyou know, it's that kind of
whole thing that when you doshare, when you, when you reach
out for help or when you share,or when you tell your story, you
(30:42):
give other people permission,uh, to share or to ask for help
or to whatever it is.
But it's like sometimes thepeople around us are actually
there, or everyone, a lot ofpeople in a situation, and it
might not be this situation, butwhatever the situation is,
there might be a group of peopleand they're all thinking the
same thing and one person givespermission for the group to
(31:03):
actually say something, and theneveryone says, oh, oh god, we
can.
You know, we can do this now,you know.
So sometimes, uh, people arewaiting for or needing
permission somehow and you'redoing that helps them.
But also sometimes, the wholebeing a burden thing.
Sometimes actually askingsomeone to step up and help you,
(31:23):
as much as it might feel likeit's being a burden, it's
actually empowering the otherperson as well, because
sometimes we need to step up andsometimes that part of our
journey is that we need to stepup and undo these things, and so
you're kind of, you're almostlike stopping someone from
having the journey that theyneed to have by not letting them
step up and be and be there foryou.
(31:45):
So there's so many layers tothis, but I don't think it
really is.
Uh, let people, uh, let peoplehelp you, because sometimes they
need to help you absolutelyyeah.
So that's really powerful andI'm, you know, I'm so glad that
you found some healing around,uh, what happened in your family
(32:07):
and the loss of your brother,and I'm so glad that sort of you
know in in, I suppose, somewhatin his name or in his, uh, in
his memory that you are, youknow, you're moving forward and
doing something so powerful thatI think will make a lot of
difference to people.
So I'm just so happy you'redoing that and you know, and
(32:28):
congratulations for turningaround something that is, you
know, such a huge challenge inyour life but turning it into
something beautiful andsomething constructive.
Oh, thank you.
Mick Rowe (32:41):
Yeah.
Fiona Kane (32:44):
So if people want to , obviously I will put all of
your details in the show notes,but if anyone wants to get in
contact with you, what's thebest place for them to find you
and find your podcast?
Mick Rowe (32:57):
Yeah, so the podcast is on Spotify and it is called
Suicide Sucks, and then I've gota Facebook page as well by the
same name, so people can followme on there.
People can can follow me onthere, um, and you know, I mean,
(33:19):
I I get funding every now andthen to to do things like this,
which is fantastic, um, butsharing, the power of sharing,
is all I need.
I just I would love for peopleto be signposted to the podcast.
You know, if you know someonewho's struggling, they might
find a story on there thatresonates with them and can help
.
Fiona Kane (33:39):
Yeah.
So it might be someone who'sstruggling, it might be someone
who feels that they can help yousomehow in what you're doing,
but whatever it is, but I willput those links into the show
notes as well.
Thank you so much, mick.
I really appreciate you sharinga story and sharing with me
what you're doing.
It's really great to hearstories of where people are
(34:01):
empowering themselves andempowering others and trying to
make a difference in this world.
So thank you so much.
Oh, thank you, fiona.
It's been a pleasure.
For those of you listening andwatching at home, I really
appreciate that you watch andyou listen.
Please like, subscribe, shareand rate the podcast so more
people hear about it, because weneed these stories to get out
(34:22):
there and we need to sharestories like this because they
are so important, and here atthe Wellness Connection we like
to have real conversations aboutthings that matter, and this is
one of those things.
So thank you everybody, and Iwill see you all again next week
.
Thank you.
Hello and welcome to the Wellness Connection podcast
with Fiona Kane.
Today I have another guest andwe're going to be talking about
a few things, but we'reessentially going to be talking
about loss and anger and howthese things can affect our
health.
So, without delay, I'm going tointroduce Mick Rowe.
Hi, Mick.
Mick Rowe (00:21):
Hi Fiona.
Fiona Kane (00:23):
For those who don't know, you give us a little bit
of your background.
Mick Rowe (00:27):
Yeah, of course.
So my name is Mick Rowe and Ihost a podcast called Suicide
Sucks, which ultimately, Iinterview guests who have made
attempts on their life but arestill here to tell the tale.
Their life but are still hereto tell the tale, hopefully
(00:50):
offering hope and showing thatyou know there is another
solution to the problems thatpeople may be suffering from.
It took me a long time to getthere.
I had a lot of anger to dealwith because I lost my brother
to suicide in 96.
And, as a spinoff from thepodcast, the importance of
(01:13):
health and wellbeing andbasically spending time in
nature has become a focus for meand I well-being sessions and
an online experience to helppeople really connect with
nature.
Fiona Kane (01:32):
Yeah, it's such a.
It's just something about whenI if my headspace isn't so good,
I sort of go outside.
There's something about nature.
It's it's grounding, it'sbigger than you, it's.
It's a lot of beauty in natureas well.
There's just something reallyhealing about nature.
It's grounding, it's biggerthan you.
It's a lot of beauty in natureas well.
There's just something reallyhealing about nature, and I know
for my own mental health I findit really useful.
So it's great that that's partof what you're doing there.
Mick Rowe (01:55):
Absolutely so a little bit about how I set up
and why I set up Suicide Sucks.
So I mentioned that I'd lost mybrother to.
He took his own life and Ithink it probably took me a good
25 years to get over it.
If I'm honest, I thought I wasover it.
(02:16):
I thought I dealt with it.
I was 22 when it happened andyou know, quite quickly after I
thought I'd dealt with it.
But you know griefs, oh God,it's um an incredible thing and
all those stages that you gothrough, and not necessarily in
any particular order, and it cancome at you wham, bam, and
(02:41):
that's basically what happenedto me.
I suffered two slipped discsand sciatica about six years ago
and I was completely out ofaction for about nine months in
total.
Now that basically that was theemotional pain that I hadn't
(03:08):
dealt with, manifesting itselfin my body as physical pain and
my body was literally saying youneed to deal with this and
you're not going anywhere untilyou have.
So I went through I mean, I wasbooked in for an operation and
everything uh, micro discectomyand I tried everything.
(03:32):
I was one of those that wouldtry anything going.
You know, acupuncture, reiki,um mindfulness, which was
another thing that did helpactually.
Um, but, yeah, I triedeverything and, strangely, at
the same time, my other brotherwas training to be a
kinesiologist in London and heneeded somebody to experiment on
(03:59):
really.
So he used me.
And for those who don't know,so he used me.
And for those who don't know,kinesiology is a really strange
thing.
It's very holistic and it takeson about five different
categories to do with physical,the physiology aspect of it.
(04:20):
It takes on board any allergiesand intolerances that your body
may have.
It uses acupuncture, it usesvisualization, so it treats like
everything.
And, uh, if I can, I'll tellabout the experience that I had
(04:42):
where I dealt with the grief, Ibelieve, of my other brother,
james.
Yeah, so there was this oneparticular incident where he, my
brother, got me to do thisvisualisation so I would be laid
.
You know, it was like atreatment bed, laid on a
(05:04):
treatment bed bed, and he got meto to tell me what was the
biggest emotion I was feeling atthat time and I was like anger
and he got me to really talkabout anger and what was I angry
about?
And you know, it was James whohad taken his own life and and
(05:25):
he said right, you know, youknow, really, hold on to that
anger.
He said now what I want you todo is I want you to imagine that
you are like a knight inshining armour and you're
completely covered in armour iton the floor.
(05:48):
So, you know, suspended mydisbelief and started taking
these pieces of armor off andthrowing them on the floor, bit
by bit.
And then he said right, there'sa big pile now of this metal on
the floor.
And again he told me to suspendmy disbelief.
He said we're going to get amatch and we're going to light
that metal.
So I did it and lit it.
And he said right, it's nowstarting to melt and it's
(06:08):
getting smaller and smalleruntil it's a tiny little puddle
on the ground, and then there'sone little drop and it's gone
into the ground and it's gonefor good.
And then he said right, what Iwant you to do now is I want you
to conjure up that anger thatyou felt before.
And I was just.
(06:29):
I mean, it was silent for a bit, and then I just absolutely
burst into hysterics, intolaughter.
It was.
I couldn't do it.
I could not recall that deepemotion of anger and I was just
lying there on this bed,absolute tears streaming down my
face, and then he startedlaughing and I said you know,
(06:52):
don't you?
He said what?
What I said I can't do it, Ican't do it.
And it was just the mostamazing experience.
And I mean it didn't happeninstantly, but gradually, like
two weeks later.
I, I canceled the appointment,the operation, I didn't need it
(07:13):
and I, I've been touched, I'venot had a problem since, you
know, and I am convinced that itwas that blockage of the
emotion that needed to bereleased.
Fiona Kane (07:29):
I've had a few kinesiologists on the podcast
over the last year or so andheard all sorts of amazing
stories about how it works forpeople.
And I don't know how it worksor why it works, but it seems to
work and really there's nothingto lose, is there?
So, uh, so it's, it's, it'spretty amazing story and just
(07:50):
being able to let go at, did youeven, did you even realize that
you had that much anger, like,was that, was that sort of
obvious to you before that?
No, so you didn't realize it.
Mick Rowe (08:00):
no, yeah, no, not at all.
If somebody had ever asked me,you know, you know how do you
feel you're angry about, angryabout it and I'd have been like
no, no, you know, but yeah, Iwas like because, when you've
lost someone uh, the?
Fiona Kane (08:14):
I suppose the last thing you want to do is is um
acknowledge any anger around it,and there's so many other
feelings that, uh, you know, butit's, I think, in my experience
(08:37):
of talking to people who'vebeen through this, I I think
that, uh, anger is definitelyone of those things that comes
up, but it's one of the lesssort of acceptable feelings or
it doesn't feel right or okay tohave that feeling.
Mick Rowe (08:50):
Yeah, I think it's looked on as a negative emotion,
isn't it?
And yet you know, really, weneed to embrace all of them,
yeah, yeah.
Fiona Kane (09:01):
And it's only natural that you would feel all
of them as well, because it'sjust so devastating and so
shocking, and I imagine thatthere'd be a level of you know,
because when someone does that,it doesn't just inflict a
problem for them, it's theirwhole family and all their loved
ones and everyone who suffers.
(09:21):
So I can only imagine you'd befeeling how could you have done
this?
to be feeling how could you havedone this to us, how could you
have done this to me, so yeah,and also the waste, the waste
when, when the beautiful life isis gone, uh, you know, the
waste about all of the thingsthat could have been and would
have been, and all of that.
Mick Rowe (09:37):
So I can only imagine that all of those, all of those
emotions would have been thereyeah, and it wasn't really until
, obviously, I dealt with allthose emotions that I could then
move on and actually dosomething.
You know, I kind of felt likeI'd got this chance to now, now
that because I felt like I haddealt with it, I could actually
(10:00):
do something good.
So that's kind of why I set upthe podcast, because I kept
thinking that what could havehelped him and potentially, if
he'd have had the opportunity tolisten to somebody who was
telling their story and it wasexactly like his, but this
person had made attempts but gotthrough it.
(10:22):
I mean, that's got to be abeacon of hope for somebody to
think, oh well, I might try whathe tried, you know yeah and uh,
and, and how are you finding,like, how long have you had this
podcast for?
Fiona Kane (10:40):
um, how many people have you spoken?
Mick Rowe (10:42):
yeah, so I've kind of properly started working on it
from March and I so far I'veinterviewed I think I've got
about 15 episodes out there umin September I went on a road
trip in my camper van because Iactually record the interviews
in my camper van.
So it's a little bit quirky, andit's I do it because it's
(11:05):
private for a start.
You know, nobody can interruptyou, we can stick the kettle on.
Uh, I've normally got my dogwith me, so he kind of chills
everything out a bit as well,and everybody that's come on
says that you know, it's areally a really cozy, peaceful
and safe, is it?
Fiona Kane (11:23):
online or do they come into the camper van with
you?
Mick Rowe (11:26):
they come into the camper van with me in person.
Yes, yeah, it's lovely and I'vedone a few because I've,
because I've had people inamerica that have wanted to to
come on.
Fiona Kane (11:36):
I have done a few on zoom and things, but I much
prefer the, the face-to-face andfor those who didn't pick up
the accent, of course everyoneknows I'm australian, but you're
in the uk, yeah exactly, but so, yeah, the one thing about the
podcast as well is thateverybody's story is different.
Mick Rowe (11:57):
But you're in the UK, yeah, exactly, but so, yeah,
the one thing about the podcastas well is that everybody's
story is different.
Yes, you know, you sometimesworry, don't you, that there's
going to be too manysimilarities with somebody else,
and da, da, da, da.
But we're all so unique andevery time somebody gets in the
camper with me, I'm literally myjaw hits the floor because I'm
like, oh my God, you know,that's just incredible what
you've gone through.
So it's really humbling and Ilove it.
(12:20):
I do love it, and we have a bitof a joke as well.
It's not like doom and gloom,it's all about hope and
positivity.
Fiona Kane (12:26):
Yes, yeah, and that's the whole point too, too,
because I think that in myexperience, our society hasn't
been well.
I speak for Western society, orat least where I'm from, anyway
, in Australia.
I know that these issues arethings that we haven't.
Especially when I was younger,people really didn't talk about
these things, or if things likethis happened, you know it would
(12:50):
be hushed tones and whatever,but no one would actually sort
of stop and actually really talkabout the issues and talk about
what could have made adifference or what might make a
difference in the future, all ofthose things.
And so it's really reallyimportant to as human beings
it's funny because we don't.
We often, often want to avoidexploring the hard stuff, but
(13:13):
it's actually the hard stuff.
I find that is if you, ifyou're willing to look at it and
you're willing to explore it,that's also, I think, where the
most healing comes in and themost uh, where you learn how to
be a bit more robust and a bitmore resilient in life is when
you are willing to talk aboutand be present with the hard
stuff.
What are your thoughts?
Mick Rowe (13:35):
on that?
Yeah, definitely.
And I think it's not untilyou've dealt with the hard stuff
that you can attract the goodstuff.
Because that's another thing.
You know we all get into thisterrible negative thought loop.
You know, once somethinghappens that you know isn't
(13:58):
great for us, it's so easy, youknow we've all been to a place
where you know we just a bit.
You know everything's goingwrong and it's so easy to take
that one thought and for it tobecome all-encompassing.
And I suppose that is withrelation to the common aspects
(14:21):
of somebody feeling disconnectedif they're having thoughts of
taking their own life wherenature comes in, own life where
nature comes in.
And what made me try and tacklethat as a way to, you know well
(14:45):
, create a connection really,and maybe just having a
connection with nature can bethe start of connecting with
others even.
You know, I mean we live in asociety now that there's so
little connection, you know, andsociable contact, and I just
think it's really important thatwe find that sense of
connection.
(15:06):
So I do sessions locally, inperson, where we spend the hour
practicing gratitude, we awakenour senses.
We do it in this place calledthe Healing Grove.
I mean you couldn't get anybetter.
We do an activity which isart-based or word-based, and
(15:28):
then we do some grounding andI'm always amazed that people
will even if it's freezing coldhere in the UK, you know, get
their socks and shoes off and,you know, join me in a
visualization to you know,really ground and it's such a,
it's such a lovely feeling thatyou're not just connected with
(15:48):
the earth, but you're connectedwith the people around you.
It's amazing that you're notjust connected with the earth,
but you're connected with thepeople around you.
Fiona Kane (15:53):
It's amazing.
Yes, yeah, and you're right inregards to connection, and I say
this over and over againbecause it comes up on so many
episodes.
But you know, when we look atthe longest study on longevity
and on keeping your facultiesfor as long as possible, they
were looking for the answer towhat it was, that it wasn't
(16:16):
going to be a cholesterol numberor what factor was it going to
be?
And it came down to connectionand it came down to someone
having your back as being themost important things for
longevity and for that cognitivefunction as we get older.
And it's weird because we're inthis world now like where you
and I are on opposite sides ofthe world having this
(16:37):
conversation.
So in some ways now we're moreconnected than ever, but we are
but we aren't, so it's more of adiscombobulated connection
where we might have, you know,people will have so many,
there'll be an influencer orthey'll have so many followers
or they get so many likes onevery time they do a post or a
photo or something like that.
(16:58):
But there's a big differencebetween someone liking your post
or whatever, and realconnection, and it's real
connection that I think thatwe're missing out on more than
ever now.
Mick Rowe (17:11):
Absolutely yeah, and I think there's a missing out on
more than ever now.
Absolutely yeah, and I thinkthere's a lot of people who are
stuck in their homes as well.
You know, I mean, I knowthere's not lockdown anymore,
but there are some people who Istill don't think are
comfortable leaving their houses.
I mean, the rates for thingslike agoraphobia and, you know,
social anxiety, they're justhuge.
(17:33):
Yes, and in fact, I've gotrelatives who have agoraphobia,
and that was one of the reasonswhy I designed this.
It's only a short onlineexperience, but I did a course
with the University of Derbyhere and it basically it's now
scientifically proven that thebenefits of connecting with
(17:54):
nature are the same if you do itdigitally.
So having audios and videos andreally immersing yourself
within those can have the samebenefits.
And that's mind-blowing, matt.
I think that's incredible.
Fiona Kane (18:10):
So if you're listening to it on your
meditation app and you'relistening to on your, you know
your meditation app.
And you're listening to a stormor you know whatever the sound
is a natural sounds that willstill work yeah, yeah, it's
incredible yeah, yeah, a friendof mine does hypnotherapy and
and she she explained a study tome once where I think it was
like a basketball team and theydid the comparison between a
(18:33):
basketball team that did lotsand lots of practice a
basketball team that did lotsand lots of practice and also
did visualizations of winningthe game and a basketball team
that only laid on the court anddid visualizations.
Wow, and it was the ones thatdid the visualizations only.
I think that were the ones thatactually had the most success.
Mick Rowe (18:52):
So they laid there on the court and imagined how the
game would go, and it is verypowerful that is amazing and I
believe, like a lot of theOlympic teams do the same thing
now they have like kind of aspiritual coach or well-being
coach.
That will encourage this wholevisualization.
Fiona Kane (19:12):
yeah, and it's the same with um with power poses.
So I think her name was amycuddy.
I did a ted talk about thoseand she was.
If I'm talking about the rightperson, I think it's the right
person anyway.
Um, and she talked about powerposes and uh, and she did
studies that I think it mighthave been harvard or somewhere,
and uh, they found so the powerposes are like where you kind of
(19:33):
do like Wonder Woman orSuperman and you sort of stand
in those stance, you know soWonder Woman's, you know the
legs apart, yeah, which isanyone listening and not
watching.
You know the Wonder Woman posewhere she's got her hands on her
hips sort of thing, or Supermanwould be, you know, the arms in
the air, air, like Superman.
What they found is that whenyou do that it reduces your
(19:58):
stress hormones and increasesyour testosterone, which helps
you get through a challengingevent.
So they looked at it for thingslike exams or job interviews or
that kind of thing.
But they also found that itworked, even if someone who
wasn't able to do that maybesomeone who's not physically
able to to do that pose.
But if they imagined themselvesdoing the pose, they also got
(20:20):
the same benefit because theywere testing the hormones and
things.
So, yeah, you're absolutelyright, that's very powerful what
we can do, whether it be ameditation app or whether it be
the videos or whatever.
Yeah, really, really powerfulstuff.
So it's great if you can get outinto nature and you know,
obviously I'd highly advise it.
And the difference is that, youknow I'm in Australia now where
(20:41):
it's, you know, 30 to 40degrees, which actually is a bit
too hot, the other way Celsius,and you're somewhere where it's
like 11 degrees top of 11 todaythat you said.
Mick Rowe (20:54):
Yeah, I and you're somewhere where it's like 11
degree top of 11.
Today I think you said I don'teven get that in summer, you
know.
I mean it's like the hottestbecause honestly, I mean maybe
28 every now and then, but 21 isthe norm.
Fiona Kane (21:00):
Yes, yes, I always have a bit of a laugh actually,
because in winter here, if I'mfeeling a bit sad about the
weather, I always look up theweather.
I know it's not where you are,but I always I look, I look up
the weather in Glasgow, right?
So when is rain here and coldin Glasgow in their summer than
it is here in our winter inSydney?
So I was like, okay, I lookedat the weather in Glasgow, I
(21:22):
feel better about winter inSydney.
Now I'm going to get overmyself.
That's brilliant, I love it.
So I know we haven't got a lotof time, but just with the time
we do have, I suppose just alittle bit more about.
Look, I think that what you'redoing is amazing and I think
it's really powerful and I feellike getting that message out,
(21:47):
especially now, because podcastsare just such, they're the way
to go, they're so powerful andso accessible that this is
making a real difference and youmust at some level, sort of
feel like you know if there'seven one person that you could
save, that you know sort of inyour brother's name sort of
(22:10):
thing.
It's like someone who doesn'tgo through what your family's
been through, you know that it'sworked, yeah.
Mick Rowe (22:19):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, I'm so obviously sopassionate about it and the fact
that people want to talk aboutit is also so evident.
You know they want to chat andthey want to chat about all of
it.
You know, now I have to.
I do have to cut some out,because there's certain things
(22:42):
you're not allowed to talk about, which frustrates me, because
they want to talk about it andactually to me, somebody
listening might not feel soalone or think that they're the
only ones who have ever feltlike that if they were to hear
all of the nitty-gritty.
(23:02):
So there's certain things wecan't touch on.
But it is still very open andhonest and, as ever with things
like this, this it's never justone thing.
You know, there's normally fouror five things and they've all
started to just, you know, buckup against each other, and then
(23:24):
there's one thing that willbreak the camel's back, so to
speak, and and and.
That's they'll talk about itall, but they'll all have a
different thing that helped them, be it.
A lot of people might have thetalking therapies that are
really big.
That's helped them, but thenfor someone else, they don't do
(23:51):
something physical or practical.
So that's really interesting aswell, that there's a different
way for each person that gotthem through it, so to speak.
The last lady I spoke to.
It was all about art andcreativity and that was just
what somehow she connected withand that then got her through
(24:14):
each day.
So it's very special to hearthe stories and I'm always so
excited to get a new member inthe camper van.
And you know I've obviously gotlots booked in and lots to come
up.
Fiona Kane (24:30):
Yeah, and I actually think that's a really important
point that you raised there too, with all of the different
things that work for differentpeople.
Because I find this now thateven just you know, there's a
big push in the last few yearsin regards to men's health and
men's mental health.
You know, for very good reason,and I, you know, we sort of.
I find that sometimes we, whenwe're talking about, oh, you
(24:52):
know, men should do this, or menshould do that, or they should
talk more or whatever, and look,obviously it's great if they
can and there's, like you said,there's nothing wrong with talk
therapy and being able to talkand all those things.
But I think it is actuallyimportant whether it's men,
woman, whoever, but it'simportant to acknowledge that
just different things might bethe key for different people and
(25:14):
it doesn't it.
There's not one, you know,there's not one way of doing
this and in so.
So for some people they willreally benefit from the talking
and they've got to learn to openup more and talk, and someone
else might not be that wayinclined, but it doesn't mean
there's not other usefulstrategies that will help them,
and I think it is.
It is good to be open to thatand so, absolutely, if people
(25:35):
listen to those episodes, theremight be one where they think,
oh, I just don't relate to thatat all, but another one they'll
listen to and go, okay, there'sthe key in, and that's the thing
.
It's like finding that key infor that person and we're not,
all you know, like I could talkto the cows.
Come home and I'm a woman and Ilike to talk about my feelings
and my thoughts and you can'tshut me up.
(25:56):
But not everyone not everyone isme and I sort of you can't sort
of put that onto other people,oh, you should do it this way or
whatever.
So I actually really love that.
It's just opening up theconversation of what are all the
different ways that people can,uh, can, yeah and sometimes
it's not even the first.
Mick Rowe (26:14):
You know they've tried four or five things before
they've got to the one thatworks.
So yeah, and I mean the agerange as well, I mean I've got.
There's a girl who's in her 20swho suffered bulimia rape.
Um, lost a job, lost her fiance, so much and then to a man in
(26:37):
his he's 70 now.
He's one of my best mates whowent who who lost his job.
He was a really high-poweredcareer man and he lost his job
in his 30s to a back injury andhe was basically told he would
never work again and he was topof his company with a family to
support.
And that was just the start forhim and he had a terrible
(27:00):
alcohol problem which led toother things and it's it's
amazing that the the breadth ofthings that people have to deal
with and are happy to talk about.
Fiona Kane (27:15):
Yeah, for sure.
And is there anything in, Isuppose, in sort of winding up?
Is there anything in particular?
Because obviously this is ahuge topic?
We could talk for hours, but wedon't have hours today, but is
there anything that you havelearned, or any lessons that
you've learned that you thinkthat would be really valuable
for my listeners and watcherstoday in regards to this topic,
(27:39):
any sort of wisdom that youcould share?
Mick Rowe (27:42):
I think a couple of things.
I think just being open, asopen as you can be, to trying
something new.
So if there are people who areyour listeners who are having
thoughts of ending their ownlife, there is support there and
(28:04):
it doesn't have to be themedical kind, which often
doesn't work for people becausethat person hasn't necessarily
stood in their shoes.
You know, there's an amazingcommunity online now and I think
it's really important that,whether somebody admits it or
not, we have all had dark daysand you know it's important to
(28:31):
know whatever's going on andwhatever people portray.
Everybody's been at that lowpoint and it might be that if
you talk about it to them, itcould help them.
So that's another thing.
People worry, I think, thatthey're going to be a burden on
other people, but maybe youdon't know what's going on in
(28:53):
that person's mind.
You could inadvertently behelping them.
Yes, biggest thing that I canrecommend to anybody who is
(29:13):
worried about somebody is to askthe question, is to literally
say not, are you okay?
You know how's it going, butare you having suicidal thoughts
?
Because as soon as you use thelanguage, the person you're
talking to, the person you'retalking to, you can see them
(29:34):
physically like relaxed, becauseyou've opened up, you've lifted
the barrier, you've opened upthe dialogue and that person
realizes that they don't have tohide anything, okay, so, not
being afraid of just beingnaming the elephant in the room,
being really blunt and justsaying it as it is, as opposed
(29:56):
to kind of like pussyfootingaround oh, are you okay.
Fiona Kane (29:59):
So it's like just that really direct can make all
the difference because it sortof like puts a spotlight on and
and and kind of opens the doorfor them.
Like you said, uh, that abilityto kind of oh, I've been seen.
Okay, because it's such ahidden thing, isn't that too,
that they sort of uh, you know,and before, when you said in
regards to sharing, yeah, it'sfirst of all, when you see how
(30:21):
many people go through theseissues, uh, we're talking about
connection.
It's so common.
So, you know, people think it'sjust them, but it's so, not
just them.
But the other thing too is thatyou know, it's that kind of
whole thing that when you doshare, when you, when you reach
out for help or when you share,or when you tell your story, you
(30:42):
give other people permission,uh, to share or to ask for help
or to whatever it is.
But it's like sometimes thepeople around us are actually
there, or everyone, a lot ofpeople in a situation, and it
might not be this situation, butwhatever the situation is,
there might be a group of peopleand they're all thinking the
same thing and one person givespermission for the group to
(31:03):
actually say something, and theneveryone says, oh, oh god, we
can.
You know, we can do this now,you know.
So sometimes, uh, people arewaiting for or needing
permission somehow and you'redoing that helps them.
But also sometimes, the wholebeing a burden thing.
Sometimes actually askingsomeone to step up and help you,
(31:23):
as much as it might feel likeit's being a burden, it's
actually empowering the otherperson as well, because
sometimes we need to step up andsometimes that part of our
journey is that we need to stepup and undo these things, and so
you're kind of, you're almostlike stopping someone from
having the journey that theyneed to have by not letting them
step up and be and be there foryou.
(31:45):
So there's so many layers tothis, but I don't think it
really is.
Uh, let people, uh, let peoplehelp you, because sometimes they
need to help you absolutelyyeah.
So that's really powerful andI'm, you know, I'm so glad that
you found some healing around,uh, what happened in your family
(32:07):
and the loss of your brother,and I'm so glad that sort of you
know in in, I suppose, somewhatin his name or in his, uh, in
his memory that you are, youknow, you're moving forward and
doing something so powerful thatI think will make a lot of
difference to people.
So I'm just so happy you'redoing that and you know, and
(32:28):
congratulations for turningaround something that is, you
know, such a huge challenge inyour life but turning it into
something beautiful andsomething constructive.
Oh, thank you.
Mick Rowe (32:41):
Yeah.
Fiona Kane (32:44):
So if people want to , obviously I will put all of
your details in the show notes,but if anyone wants to get in
contact with you, what's thebest place for them to find you
and find your podcast?
Mick Rowe (32:57):
Yeah, so the podcast is on Spotify and it is called
Suicide Sucks, and then I've gota Facebook page as well by the
same name, so people can followme on there.
People can can follow me onthere, um, and you know, I mean,
(33:19):
I I get funding every now andthen to to do things like this,
which is fantastic, um, butsharing, the power of sharing,
is all I need.
I just I would love for peopleto be signposted to the podcast.
You know, if you know someonewho's struggling, they might
find a story on there thatresonates with them and can help
.
Fiona Kane (33:39):
Yeah.
So it might be someone who'sstruggling, it might be someone
who feels that they can help yousomehow in what you're doing,
but whatever it is, but I willput those links into the show
notes as well.
Thank you so much, mick.
I really appreciate you sharinga story and sharing with me
what you're doing.
It's really great to hearstories of where people are
(34:01):
empowering themselves andempowering others and trying to
make a difference in this world.
So thank you so much.
Oh, thank you, fiona.
It's been a pleasure.
For those of you listening andwatching at home, I really
appreciate that you watch andyou listen.
Please like, subscribe, shareand rate the podcast so more
people hear about it, because weneed these stories to get out
(34:22):
there and we need to sharestories like this because they
are so important, and here atthe Wellness Connection we like
to have real conversations aboutthings that matter, and this is
one of those things.
So thank you everybody, and Iwill see you all again next week
.
Thank you.
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