January 7, 2025 • 61 mins
How to heal emotional pain can feel impossible when you're in the middle of it, but you're not alone. In this powerful episode of The Wellness Connection, Fiona Kane sits down with guest Chintamani Bird, who shares raw, deeply moving stories about trauma, resilience, and the healing power of human connection.
From a life-changing horseback riding accident to saving a stranger from the edge of despair, Chintamani's journey reminds us that healing takes courage, and even the smallest acts of connection can change everything. We explore practical steps to move through emotional pain, like journaling, connecting with nature, and asking for help, while honouring the messy, beautiful reality of recovery.
Whether you're navigating grief, trauma, or just feeling stuck, this episode offers a safe space to feel seen, supported, and inspired.
👍 Like, comment, and subscribe to support this growing community of healing and hope.
These are some links for Chintamani:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/chintamani-bird-lfa-b3a90662
https://www.instagram.com/studio.chintamani
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61557684881987
Learn more about booking a nutrition consultation with Fiona: https://informedhealth.com.au/
Learn more about Fiona's speaking and media services: https://fionakane.com.au/
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Credit for the music used in this podcast:
The Beat of Nature
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Fiona Kane (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the Wellness Connection Podcast
with Fiona Kane.
I have another guest today andwe're going to be talking about
focusing on healing and nothurting.
My guest today is ChintamaniBird.
Hi, Chintamani.
Chintamani Bird (00:16):
Hi Fiona, thank you for having me.
I'm so excited to be here today.
Fiona Kane (00:22):
Well, I'm glad that you agreed to come on and I'm
sure that our listeners andwatchers will when they hear
your story, because it's aninteresting story, or some of
your stories anyway, becauseyou've got many.
For those who don't know you,would you like to introduce
yourself a little bit?
Chintamani Bird (00:38):
Sure, at the moment.
I studied to be an interiordesigner in my 40s and I one of
the things that drives me.
I've also worked with kids withdisabilities as a teacher's
aide, and I think I've worn manyhats over the years, you know
(00:58):
being a mum, I've been aninterior designer, teacher's
aide, I've also worked infinance and all these sort of
different things.
But one of the things thatbrings me here today is I really
am quite passionate aboutsomething that we call biophilic
design and people go hmm, whatis?
Fiona Kane (01:20):
that?
Yeah, it's biophilic design.
What is that yeah?
Chintamani Bird (01:25):
So one of the things, one of my passions is
the environment, mental health,and when you're actually
designing spaces, you canactually impact people's mental
health, physical wellbeing andalso expedite physical healing.
So, and one of the things thatI love and that's just how you
(01:47):
design spaces, you know, and oneof the big things like
biophilic design is translatedmeans love of life you know,
love of life Beautiful.
And sometimes we don't reallyknow what that means, you know.
And so biophilic designsupports.
(02:09):
You know we often think aboutjust surviving life, just being
able to get through the day.
You know, things happen andthings aren't always rosy, you
know, and one of the thingsabout biophilic design it's you
have thriving and you have um,just surviving.
(02:30):
And in between that, totraverse between one to two, is
healing, and by the biophilicdesign is the ability to support
your own healing.
And it's really important thatwe look at.
You know, it's such a massivesort of concept that we really
(02:53):
need to understand.
How in the hell do I do that?
And it's through connection,and biophilic design is all
about connection connection toyourself, connection to the
environment, connection to theplace that you live in, and so
(03:13):
really interesting stuff.
You know we often love going tobeaches for holidays and
different things, so biophilicdesign is a way to translate
your environment into somethingthat can heal not only your
heart, your soul, your body andyour mind, and this is all
(03:34):
clinically proven.
This is something that they doin hospitals, prisons in Norway,
hospitals in Norway and inSingapore.
Changi Hospital does it.
It's a big biophilic designcity, so it's a massive amount
of science that goes into this.
Fiona Kane (03:54):
I was thinking about that when you were talking
about that just before you saidholidays, I was thinking the
same thing.
I was thinking probably one ofthe reasons that people you know
feel rest and restored afterholidays.
Obviously there's lots ofdifferent reasons, but one of
them reasons that people youknow um, feel rest and restored
after holidays.
Obviously there's lots ofdifferent reasons, but one of
them is that we're often aredrawn to the beach or the forest
or the bush or somewhere,somewhere very nature sort of
(04:15):
place, and so we're often, uh,quite connected to nature and
have lots of and stay somewherethat's beautiful or be in the be
in nature's beauty somewhere,and that's part of it.
Isn't it part of why holidaysare so healing?
Chintamani Bird (04:30):
It is One of the things with the studies,
with biophilic design and howthey've proven it is that we're
genetically geared for our ownsurvival to be connected to the
environment because we live onthis planet.
We are not above this planet.
We are acting to be integratedinto this planet, despite
(04:53):
Gucci's thoughts, anyway.
So when we're looking atbiophilic design, we really need
to understand that.
When we're connected to otherliving systems because that's
what biophilic design we reallyneed to understand that.
When we're connected to otherliving systems because that's
what biophilic design is thewater, the animals, the trees,
the plants, you know, indigenousculture is really very, very
(05:20):
integral part of living withcountry.
Or you have the Inuits, whoalso have their own sort of
version of that, as well as theIndigenous cultures of not Spain
, of America.
You're sort of looking at allhow we are meant to be.
We are preordained genetically,biochemically connected to
(05:45):
other things.
Fiona Kane (05:48):
Yes, yeah, it's a very big thing in the health
space where we're looking atwith people.
You know, we're always talkingto people about their circadian
rhythms and their circadianrhythms so that's 24-hour cycle
on how your body, a lot of yourprocesses in your body work
based on light at a certain timeof day and dark at a certain
time of day and going out andbeing in that natural light for
(06:09):
certain parts of the day andbeing connected with nature and
things like grounding and so alot of that is.
You know, we're seeing that nowwith issues that people have
with stress and sleep and somany health issues and really in
health we are sort of startingto look at that.
And also, being a nutritionist,I talk to people about the you
know the seasons and sort ofeating seasonally, so eating
(06:33):
sort of local grown seasonalfood as opposed to something
that's been flown in from theother side of the world.
That's not part of your seasonkind of thing.
So, yes, we are seeing inhealth we're starting to join
the dots and kind of go back andsay, oh okay, it's not just
about whether or not you havevitamin B3 or whatever it is,
while those individual thingscan be useful, but it's also a
(06:55):
lot about connecting back inwith that whole, connecting with
the space that we live in, theplace that we live in and all of
the energy of that energy ofthe earth, energy of the spirit
world, whatever it is, howeveryou describe it, but it's
connecting back in with thatenergy.
Chintamani Bird (07:12):
Yes, I think connection is really an
important part of life and weare so drawn to how our
environment really sort of talksto us and how we talk to it.
One of the studies that we showis that well, not me personally
(07:35):
show, but that has been recordedis that when you're actually
dealing with either cancer orwith mental health issues, if
you actually are in a hospitaland you have a window facing
concrete, your brain doesn'tunderstand what's going on, so
(07:55):
it actually increases the painresponse to you, so you feel
more pain, your cortisol levelsincrease, which is again not
great for healing.
Um, and also, uh, you will findthat you'll need more
medication compared toconnecting to a vista or a view,
um, having plants in the space,having fractals in the space,
(08:20):
feeling connected to yourenvironment, and it could be
just the window, um, you'll findthat there was a study in
Norway which I always bring up,in a psychiatric hospital.
They designed in a certain waywith direct and indirect causes
with the world, and within 12months there was a 50% reduction
(08:43):
in the psychiatric hospital ofphysical restraints.
There was a 20% reduction inmedication people needing
medication.
And this is for people withsevere psychiatric disorders.
So it is incredible how justconnecting to the environment,
(09:05):
connecting to the world,connecting to the people, how
healing that actually can be.
Fiona Kane (09:12):
Yes, yeah, and if anyone's wondering what that
sound is, you're babysitting adog.
So there's just a little doggyin the background, isn't there?
People are like what's thatfunny sound?
Chintamani Bird (09:21):
We have three dogs here two sausage dogs and
three little um uh chihuahua.
That's um.
Fiona Kane (09:29):
Yeah, that needs a lot of support I can just see
the little little feet movingaround and people might be what.
What is that sound?
So just if you're listening athome, you come what is that
weird sound?
That's what it is.
It's a biophilic design.
It it's just natural,connecting to nature.
It's all part of it.
(09:50):
But you know, the other thingtoo is that, in regards to sort
of health studies and things,there is a study the longest
study I think, that has beendone on looking at longevity,
and not just longevity buthaving our brain function, our
cognitive function, for a longtime, you know, for the longest
time, and you know they've beendoing this study for a long time
, for the longest time, andthey've been doing this study
for a long time through HarvardUniversity.
And I think they thought whenthey first started doing it that
they were going to find thatthe answer to longevity was
(10:13):
something like your cholesterolnumber or some other thing like
that.
But they actually found it'sconnection that when you have
connection to other people andpeople have your back, that is
actually what bodes well forlongevity and good cognitive
function as we get older.
Yeah, which won't surprise you.
Chintamani Bird (10:35):
I think one of the things that is really
surprising is how the brainworks.
You know I love psychology andthat's part of the biophilic
design and how the brainactually reacts to certain
spaces and certain environments,and also that is through life
experience.
But there's also that geneticreptilian brain that really has
(10:58):
evolved and is fully formed whenwe're born.
It doesn't need any moreformation doesn't need any
growth, like the prefrontalcortex, which isn't until our
mid to late 20s that iscompletely fully formed.
So yeah, connection and how weactually live in our environment
(11:20):
.
We are born with that andthat's, you know, and the other
ways of survival, the other waysof how we actually deal with
the world, or how we relate tothe world and how we connect to
the world.
Again, there is a preordained,pre-biologically made up, like
(11:42):
we are predestined to actuallyfind connection, and that could
be to the environment or otherliving things.
Fiona Kane (11:55):
Yeah, and that's what we sort of look for so much
.
I think even Johan Hari's book,his book Lost Connections, and
I think that he was saying inhis book that he believes that,
uh, a lot of things likeaddiction and those sorts of
issues, um they're, they're,they're from a loss of
connection, that's what they'resort of.
The opposite to addiction ishave is being connected.
(12:16):
So it's like when peoplehaven't got connection, um that
can really affect their mentalhealth and those things.
Chintamani Bird (12:24):
I think one of the things about addiction and
just from my personal experienceis that we really sometimes the
pain is a lot and we need tonumb, we need to disassociate,
we need to because it's a a lot.
(12:45):
It is a lot, yeah, and sometimesthe that ache that we feel
inside is so excruciating thatwe can't um, we need an escape,
we need to disassociate, we needto like.
The brain is an amazing tooland it will do and it will look
(13:07):
for any way to survive, any way.
And we're not talking aboutthriving, we're not talking
about healing, we're just likeliving and breathing.
You know, and one of the thingsum, again, you know, I have
many stories, but one of the oneof the things that I, I really
have experienced is when thereis no hope and it's just all you
(13:34):
see is pain.
It becomes consuming, itbecomes very consuming in how
you relate to the world, and thebrain will go.
Well, how can I get out of this?
How can I find a way out ofthis terrible situation?
(13:54):
And addiction is one of them,because we need to numb, numb
and we need to.
Just, it's a case of actuallybeing able to function while not
functioning.
You know, that's thatdisassociation.
(14:16):
And it's incredible because Ireally feel that I remember
there was a time where I didn'tknow where to go, I didn't know
what to do and to limit our time, like make sure that within
(14:39):
those timeframes today.
But I remember, you know, whenI I was younger, the only joy I
had and there was a lot of otherissues going on was I loved
horses.
I loved how it was a connectionto the horse, it was connection
to the world.
It was connection to me becauseeverything else was not.
(15:02):
It was horrible.
And so I had a horse.
His name was Spike and I lovedhim.
It was just my outlet.
It was my escape as well.
It wasn't just about connection,it was an escape as well, and I
think, through addiction alsois a way of just trying to
(15:25):
survive.
Really, we are like we are alljust trying to survive this
world, which is a really sadplace to be.
So, bringing that back into2010, I was in a dark place, a
very dark place, and my husbandwas, like, what can we do, what
you know?
(15:45):
And I just thought and itsounds a little bit, I guess,
like you could do that, like Iwanted to actually be connected
to horses, you know.
And so we were in the rightsituation where we, like I saved
up the money and I made surethat I could do everything and I
did all the the you know,because I, the day that I said
(16:09):
to my husband I don't know whatelse to do.
I was in so much pain, um,emotional pain and mental pain,
and I said I don't know whatelse to do and, um, we say, I
saved up.
I was really sort of consciousof what to do and at the time I
also was suffering fromagoraphobia.
(16:30):
So this was a case of Icouldn't go outside without my
family and I couldn't makedecisions for myself.
So I was really dysfunctional,I couldn't do anything and I
thought, okay, let this be theanswer.
And it was hard.
It was really hard because Iloved this horse, you know, and
(16:52):
it was the only outlet I had.
But I think I bought the horsein.
I think it was, I just have tothink about this.
I think it was in 2010.
Yep, it was somebody about 2010, late 2010.
(17:12):
And I loved that horse and Iwas hoping that it would
actually help me find friendsand help me hope to actually
really support me, to actuallyreally support me.
Because what happened was, withthe agoraphobia, it was really
hard for me to.
(17:32):
I was so frightened to get outof the front door, I was so
frightened to actually to make adecision and in fear of it was
going to be the wrong decisionor like I was just completely
incapacitated, you know.
So then one day I went right.
(17:55):
I mustered all my strengths,all my strengths.
I rang this person I knew whohad another horse, and I said,
come on, let's do this.
And I was talking to myself.
I was like, come on, come on,let's do this.
So out the back of the housethere was a park and the horse
(18:20):
lived in our yard.
It was an acre, so it wasn't asuburban yard.
Yes, right.
And I mustered every fibre ofmy being to actually get up, get
up off that lounge and not befrozen in fear, not be so
(18:40):
petrified of life, and I thought, okay, right, saddled up the
horse, went out the back fenceand the lady came, my friend
came, she saddled up her horseand I then decided and then I
(19:02):
got on.
That was not a good idea.
I started trotting and withinmoments my horse bolted and
started to buck.
Wow, and I was in my 40s and Iwas not an experienced rider
(19:24):
because my experience was when Iwas in my 40s and I was not an
experienced rider because myexperience was when I was 12.
Off, I went Bang Right on mycoccyx and I couldn't move my
legs.
I couldn't move my legs.
Wow, I'm writhing in pain.
(19:46):
So funny Note to self whensomeone's writhing in pain,
don't stand there or sit thereand go.
It's okay, chintamani.
Think of blue ocean waves,because that's what the lady was
doing.
Think of blue.
(20:08):
She was trying to meditate withme?
Fiona Kane (20:11):
yeah, no, there's times for meditation, but
there's also times for callingthe ambulance and not the same
time necessarily.
Chintamani Bird (20:21):
So, and I'm just like, and so my son, who's
actually in the house, can hearme scream he comes out and with
the phone and my husband at thetime is a paramedic and he's on
shift down at the local stationand all he can hear is I can't
(20:46):
move my legs and that's all thatwas happening.
So, oh, then there was a wholelot of ambulances and
helicopters and he got there in11 minutes and that's a
25-minute drive.
He drove fast, he was in theambulance and so um, yeah and
I'm just like, and the, the, youknow like, you think about the
(21:10):
pain and oh my lord.
So anyway, I get loaded into ahelicopter and I get transported
to Westman hospital and stillcan't move my legs.
You know, in that helicopterthis is so funny I needed to
hold someone's hand.
(21:31):
There was this voice inside ofme I just want to hold someone's
hand.
Now I thought it was myhusband's hand.
My husband was looking out thewindow in the helicopter.
It was not my husband's hand.
My husband was looking out thewindow in the helicopter.
It was not my husband's hand,it was the paramedic who was
actually treating me.
(21:52):
It was the nurse who wastreating me and I was just
stroking.
You know how you strokesomeone's hand.
I was stroking her hand.
I just needed that humanconnection, that human touch.
Yes, anyway, so we arrive.
I got into the ICU.
They tried to make me stand,which was like what?
But okay, couldn't do that.
And then, eventually, I went upto the ward.
(22:15):
It was the night and I was onmorphine.
I still felt the pain.
It was horrible, and I couldn'teven go to the toilet.
I couldn't go to the toiletmyself.
So that was horrible.
And this is the difference.
(22:38):
The next morning my husbandsaid do you need anything, do
you want something?
And I went I want my journal, Iwant to write, okay.
So it's like day two and you'reasking for your journal.
Fiona Kane (22:57):
Yeah, wow.
Chintamani Bird (23:00):
And I'm going and they brought cards, because
I like board games and cardgames and stuff.
And so the kids are on my bedand they're playing.
And I mean, they're teenagers,they're young adolescents, very
young adolescents.
And I'm thinking, okay, thiswas a good kick up the ass that
(23:28):
I got, this was a wonderfulwake-up call.
This was an amazing wake-upcall.
I'm breathing, I'm not dead,I'm breathing.
The kids are playing Wow, I'mbreathing.
The kids are playing.
Wow, I'm breathing.
I'm not dead, I'm not like, I'mnot paralyzed, I just can't
(23:51):
move my legs, but I'm breathing.
And that moment was like awonderful, you know, wake-up
call, because I'm alive.
It took me three months tolearn to walk again.
(24:12):
I still get pain, was it's how?
Like you know, I needed areality check that life wasn't
(24:34):
well life.
I had a choice.
I had a choice to go.
So poor me and don't get mewrong, there's been lots of
times of that but I just wasgrateful I was alive, I could
(24:55):
breathe on my own.
So many times when people haveaccidents, it doesn't end well,
it doesn't end well, and so thatwas a real pivotal moment that
I needed to focus on somethingdifferent, isn't it?
Fiona Kane (25:19):
amazing, though, that you there's a couple of
things that you said thatbesides the fact that huge story
but it's the moments where youhad sort of intuition.
So your intuition was that youknew you just needed human touch
.
When you were in the helicopterwhich, I mean, I I lived with
someone with agoraphobia.
(25:41):
It's a full-on issue, and so Ican only imagine for you just
going out and being out thefront whatever was hard enough,
let alone being in a helicopterwith all this crazy stuff going
on and all of the pain andeverything else.
But one was you needed humantouch.
But then the other was that oneof your first instincts was
(26:04):
bring my diary or your journalsorry of all the things that you
could ask for.
And so I feel like to me therefeels like a whether or not you
call it a divine thing, orwhether or not you call it an
intuitive thing or whateverlanguage people have different
language or different ways theylike to think about this but it
does definitely feel like aguidance, that you're being
(26:26):
guided to something that'sbeneficial for you, and and then
having that allowed you toreflect and have that gratitude
which is kind of what's allowedyou to.
You know what we were saying atthe beginning that this is
going to be about focusing onthe healing, not the hurting.
Well, that's what it is, isn'tit?
Chintamani Bird (26:48):
It is, I think, one of the things that I read a
book once and it says pain isinevitable, happiness is
optional.
Pain is inevitable, Happinessis optional.
So, basically, you know, if Iyou know bang out, all right,
but it's how?
I relate to it.
You know that's reallyimportant and it's not an easy.
(27:12):
We need to actually understandthat healing needs courage.
We need to understand that ittakes a lot of courage and a lot
of strength to actually realisethat, not to actually just sort
of okay, collapse into the pain.
Yes, accept that it sucks.
(27:34):
And it just reminds me ofanother story that happened
after we sort of this happened,and it was about 2016.
So the horse running accidenthappened in 2011.
So not if you think abouthistory, not that long ago, but
it was, I think.
(27:54):
How old was my son?
I think my son was.
I think it was about 2015, 2016.
Um, my husband, my son, actuallyworked at McDonald's and one of
the things, um, that he alwaysdid, he always brought me an
orange juice after his shift.
I would pick him up and, um, hewould bring out their issues
(28:18):
and it didn't matter how late atnight.
He was one of the managersthere and he really, really
enjoyed this job.
And one of the things I alwaysinstilled into my son is, you
know, a bit of a philosophy onlygood can come of this.
You know, only good can, nomatter what happens, we can
translate this into somethinggood.
(28:40):
You know, things may suck rightnow, but it is a way that we
are able to translate andtransform ourselves.
So, one night, middle of winter,in Richmond, in New South Wales
, here in Australia, and thenbitterly cold.
(29:01):
It's August, it's bitterly coldand I come to McDonald's car
park, I wait for my son tofinish his shift.
And then there was this as Iparked, there was a car just
ahead of me and I was like, oh,and I kept on being my attention
(29:23):
kept on being drawn to this car, just like you know, like who
is that?
I could see someone sitting inthe car.
I could see, you know.
It was just a bit odd, you know, and I'm just like, okay,
anyway, just waiting, waitingfor my own shoes, waiting for my
son.
Anyway, he eventually comes out, he's got his two cup holders
(29:44):
and his two drinks, two largeMcDonald's orange juices, yummo,
anyway.
And I then sort of started topull away and I started passing
this car and because I kept onlooking over this car, like, and
seeing this person while Iwaited, I started pulling
(30:07):
forward.
I was looked and there was aman, a young man.
He was about 18, 19 years oldand he was sobbing.
He's sobbing and I old and hewas sobbing, he's sobbing and I
went and I stopped the car, Igot out of my car, I walked
(30:29):
around the back of my car and upto his Tap, tap, tap, tap.
Are you all right?
He's on the phone at the timeand I didn't know at the time,
right as I tapped, he was on thephone to Lifeline because the
(30:50):
last three hours he had beennegotiating whether he go home
or put himself on the railwaytracks because the car park is
right next to the railway tracks, to the train station.
Fiona Kane (31:05):
Oh, it gives you chills.
Chintamani Bird (31:10):
And he goes and I said are you all right?
No, nothing's all right.
And he just burst into tears,he burst into this incredible
emotional flurry of pain and Isaid to him it's going to be all
(31:33):
right.
It's going to be all right.
And he said no, it's not.
No, how dare you talk to melike that?
It's never going to be likethat.
Fiona Kane (31:43):
sorry about the dogs , um and dogs are getting
involved in the story too.
Chintamani Bird (31:50):
Yeah, they are you feel the energy picking up
on the energy energy yeah.
So I said come out, because Iknew I could say it.
I knew I could say it.
I said get out the car for me,get out of the car and it you've
(32:11):
got to remember.
And so he gets out of the car.
He's wearing a tank top it'sthree degrees outside and ripped
board shorts.
He's got nothing on him.
Three degrees.
Fiona Kane (32:22):
Celsius for those who are listening elsewhere.
It was very, very cold.
Chintamani Bird (32:27):
Yes, yeah, it's freezing, it's so cold.
And then I said I want you tolook up this website because at
the time I had a website.
All right, I want you to readthis Now.
Mind you, lifeline is still onthe phone.
He hasn't hung up.
(32:48):
So through this whole story,please remember, lifeline is
already and stays on the phonelistening to this story.
Fiona Kane (32:57):
Yes.
Chintamani Bird (33:00):
So one of the things.
So I said to him read this.
And he started reading thiswebsite.
I gave him and he looked up atme.
He stared into my eyes.
He said my life's not that hard.
I said this is my story.
(33:21):
My life's not that hard.
I said this is my story, mylife's not that bad, is that?
what you just said.
My life's not that bad, mylife's not that hard, my life's
not that hard.
And I stared back at him.
I said this is my story.
He said I thought so.
He said I thought so and I saidit's really important to
(33:46):
understand right now thatsomeone cares about you.
Fiona Kane (33:49):
I care about you.
Chintamani Bird (33:52):
Yes, we need to focus on the healing, not on
the hurting.
Wow, my son is still in the carlistening to this.
So I never keep a clean car.
But in the back of my car I hada goose down and a rack jacket.
(34:13):
So I went and dived into my carand I actually put it around
his shoulders and I said Jamie,we need to understand that
someone cares about you, someoneloves you, and this is me in
front of you and he's like Isaid, I need you to understand
(34:38):
that sometimes, when we focus onthe pain, we only see pain, we
only see what is hurting us.
We can't see what can heal andhelp us.
Yes, and so I wrapped theanorak jacket around him.
It was a big, fluffy thing witha great big hood with fur
(35:00):
around the the hood.
Yeah, and for the next threehours I'm talking to jamie, I'm
saying, once you feel this, nowyou need to pay it forward.
You need to pay forward withthis jacket and help someone
else heal as well.
(35:21):
Yes, and so we talked for thenext three hours.
My son is in the back, still inthe car, you know, in the
middle of winter, in the dark,in Richmond, new South Wales.
So I went home.
Jamie went home three weekslater I think it was three weeks
(35:45):
, no, it was six weeks later.
I'm back in the mcdonald's carpark picking up my son, and it's
late and I see three youngteenagers, like they're, you
know, adolescents and they'regoing to get in the car in front
(36:08):
of me.
You know because we're in thecar park.
Oh, my Lord, there's Jamie.
He has friends.
Oh what?
Okay, yes, and he comes up tomy car and he says I just went
and saw your son to say thankyou, he had friends.
(36:29):
He said I feel so much better.
And on my bad days I come tomcdonald's car park.
I remember what happened.
Yeah, I still remember and I'mstill trying to find that person
to give that anorak to, becausehe wants to pay it forward.
Yes, and I was like this isamazing, fantastic, yeah, it's
(36:52):
beautiful.
So then, three months later, youknow, I think sometimes we need
a reality, that someone cares.
It's not words, it's a physicalpresence of energy and love,
and for jamie it was that anorak.
So three months later, it's asad day.
(37:14):
I need to take my son uh, takelunch to my son in the
mcdonald's car park.
And so it was incrediblebecause I went in tupperware,
container in in hand, and thenthis young man an older woman so
came to me.
It was Jamie.
(37:34):
He looked completely different.
Oh my God.
He looked different and he saidI'm looking to become, do some
education.
He was going to be either atravel agent or he wanted to
travel.
He wanted to do a few thingsand I went this is fantastic,
this is so amazing.
This is great.
Then I turned to the olderwoman.
(37:56):
I said hi, my name'sChinchamani.
She said I know who you are.
You gave me my son back andthat sort of like.
She said we can't believe thatit's happened.
It's amazing that it happened,but we keep on looking at that
(38:20):
jacket and saying it wasn't adream.
Yes.
So I think sometimes gettingthat sort of reality check of
what life could be and knowingthat we can connect and we can
(38:40):
heal, that's the most importantthing.
Fiona Kane (38:46):
Yeah, for sure, for sure.
So I'm just sort of sittinghere trying not to cry but
trying and failing, because it'ssuch a beautiful story and it's
just a beautiful story and it'sjust there's so many layers to
that, isn't there, I mean, youknow one is that, again, it's
you were listening to yourintuition or you were being
guided.
You know what's going on inthat car.
(39:08):
Why were you so attracted tothat car?
Why were you looking at thatcar?
You know Most people arewhatever, but you know you were
listening to that intuition.
You know most people arewhatever, but you know you were
listening to that intuition andyou looked.
And the other thing is youlooked, and a lot of us, when we
see stuff that looks like it'shard or that we don't want to
deal with or whatever, we justkeep walking and we just keep
driving or whatever.
(39:28):
So not only did you getattracted to the car and you
look, but then you saw thisperson in pain and you stopped
what you were doing and went tothem.
You know, and that's so.
And I think on one hand, I'msaying there should be more of
that, but on the other hand, Ithink there is a lot of stories
(39:51):
like these, you hear thesestories, and that reminds that,
that reminds you of of humansand a human connection and and I
think it's good to it's thatkind of whole thing that you
know, like on the news.
You know, if you watch the newsand I haven't watched it for a
long time, but when you do watchthe news it's kind of like you
know what is it if it bleeds, itleads kind of thing, and they,
(40:13):
they really want to do.
Most of the news is all of theawful stuff and all the horrible
things that people are doing toeach other and all the wars and
all the rest of it.
And then they might do like ahappy puppy story at the end or
a kindness sort of volunteeringstory or something.
And the problem is is it givesyou this like.
I think it gives you thisfeeling like everything's bad in
(40:34):
the world and there's not thatmuch good, and but when you look
at any of the bad things thathappen in the world, there's
good things that happen alongwith them or happen afterwards
or whatever it is.
It was that sort of story of Ithink I can't remember who said
this, but they.
Someone said that, you know,when he was getting overwhelmed
with seeing other stories in theworld.
(40:55):
At some point his mother saidto him um, don't focus on that,
focus on the helpers, focus onthe people who are fixing it or
going and helping whatever.
So if you see a disaster, it'slike, oh my god, there's this
terrible disaster, but look atall those volunteers that are
there helping.
You know, and it's always goback to just remembering that
there, you know that there aremany human beings out there who
(41:19):
are doing these things and thesethings are happening and it
would be great if it couldhappen even more absolutely.
But, as she is good for us toacknowledge, because we, because
of the way that uh, media isand social media and all the
rest of it, clickbait,everything else uh, a lot of
things for a long time have beenaimed at sort of the nasty
stuff and we don't focus onthese kind of stories enough.
(41:41):
And it's these stories that arereally, really important to
help to keep people justbelieving in humankind,
believing in kindness, believingin love and compassion and all
those things.
So I think that stories likethis, it's really important to
highlight these stories and itis one of the reasons why there
(42:02):
is a genre online on YouTube andstuff of people doing more
inspirational sort of storiesand people.
You see the amount of viewsthey get.
They get many, many views and Iunderstand why.
I think it's part of us lookingfor connection.
Chintamani Bird (42:18):
Looking for connection but also looking for
proof that there's beauty in theworld and uh and so, yeah,
stories like this are reallyimportant to highlight on for so
many reasons yeah, I think thethe um one of the things is, you
know, with all of thatagitation, with news, and that
it really links into our senseof and the autonomic nervous
(42:41):
system of survival.
We need to survive, we need to,you know, and that agitation is
part of that autonomic nervoussystem and that fight.
You know, like we have toprotect, we have to guard, we
have to.
You know, like we have toprotect, we have to guard, we
have to.
(43:01):
And I think what I was sayingearlier is that there's a
difference between just gettingby and yes, there's a lot of
yuckiness in the world too, likethat is a very, very bland way
of saying it, but there is ahorrible, heinous, malicious ick
.
Yes, but yes, and I'veexperienced a lot of that
personally in my life, so I'mnot coming from a place of my
(43:25):
head in the clouds you know,I've experienced a lot of pain
and a lot of trauma.
But one of the things for me isthat the only time that we
really sort of life gets betteris, like you were saying, what
we focus on horrible things ordo we want to actually get into
(43:53):
that ventral, vagal nervoussystem?
Connect with other people, findlike-minded people that
actually have the same values ofwanting to find?
peace wanting to find a way tothrive that is magical and
grounded.
(44:13):
Magical and grounded, you know,because one of the things that
we see in life is, if we justsee the dark, we are unable to
see the light.
But there cannot be any lightwithout the dark because it's
that contrast.
Fiona Kane (44:32):
Yeah, the truth is that it's all there, they come
together and life both exists.
As for us, it's what you weresaying before.
It's what we choose to see aswell, because sometimes we
choose to only focus on one, andthey're both there.
But if you focus on seeing thelight, that will help you, but
if you only focus on seeing thedark, then that's all you will
(44:54):
see.
That will help you.
Chintamani Bird (44:56):
But if you only focus on seeing the dark, then
that's all you will see, and Ithink the oxymoron of this also
is that if you only focus on thelight, this is going to sound
counterintuitive.
You are unable to heal from thedark.
Yeah, you know.
Fiona Kane (45:13):
So for me it's that kind of shadow stuff of not
acknowledging the, the, notacknowledging the sort of what's
a, what's the best term for it.
Well, our shadow side, all theall, the um, all the challenging
parts of us, all the all thetrauma or history or things like
that.
(45:33):
So, yeah, both exist.
Chintamani Bird (45:36):
Both exist and having that strength.
So for me, my journey has beenone that has given me such
courage, such strength, andthere has been so many times I
wanted to give up, just thoughtI wish I didn't have a reason to
(45:56):
feel strong, I wish I didn'thave a reason to be courageous.
But it is that reason, thatsituation, that has put the
pressure on me to either sink,swim or blossom.
And don't get me wrong, I'm notperfect.
(46:20):
I've made lots of mistakes inmy life, I've done the wrong
thing.
But I think, in your heart,when you know your heart and
when you focus on, look, whenyou're doing, when you
experience trauma like myself,um, and a life full of trauma,
(46:42):
uh, you, you can get prettyconsumed with it.
You know and you go oh, that'sa pretty sought to heal.
But think about it If I didn'tface how I felt, how I related
to that situation, how am.
(47:03):
I going to deal with?
How am I going to actually beable to transform it?
You know I'm going to quote DrPhil.
It's terrible.
Fiona Kane (47:16):
I love Dr Phil.
It's terrible I love Dr Phil.
Chintamani Bird (47:17):
I really love him.
You can't change what you don'tacknowledge and acknowledging
is really important.
Acknowledging and that's thefirst step of healing, you know,
acknowledging it sucked, oracknowledging how it has
transformed you or the sheerrage of how it actually feels,
(47:40):
how you felt about it.
It's a step.
Always get professional help.
Whoever is listening to thisAlways get professional help.
I'm 100% on professional help,but getting the right
professional help, because I'vehad professional help before and
(48:00):
it was like trying to combat adragon with a feather.
So always find the right fieldthat suits you personally.
Fiona Kane (48:12):
But I think one of the things and there's not
really a perfect way of figuringthat out, is there?
It's more.
I think that we just have totry different things and just
know that if that's not theright thing or if that's not the
right professional, there'll besomebody else or something else
.
And so it's just to keep trying, is that?
Chintamani Bird (48:32):
100%, and I think one of the things also is
that you know, I tried, I did um, I rebirthing breath work, I
did um.
I went and found a guru andthat's where I get my name from.
I went, did meditation, I didcrystal healing, I did spiritual
(48:53):
healing, I did um, I did trauma, trauma-informed yoga.
I've done um.
So it wasn't a case of um sortof giving up.
It was like where is the answer?
Yes, the answer is actuallywithin me.
I just needed the person toactually reflect that, and so I
(49:17):
eventually settled with aclinical psychologist who
specialises in trauma.
But one of the things that alsoI've discovered is when you're
looking at psychology and you'relooking at your environment and
you're looking at who and whatsupports you, it's really
(49:41):
important to actually not onlyhave people that actually um.
I think support is a verygeneric word um, but I've got a
friend who knows me.
I've you know, she knows who Iam, she knows my quirky parts
(50:04):
and but I didn't meet until Iwas 50 because all the other
friends were based on unhealthyrelationships.
But getting someone to actuallywho is safe to know, who is
safe to actually expose yourselfto and who is safe to actually
(50:26):
share, and sometimes myexperience is that it's very
misguided sometimes becausewe're just trying to find that
connection when, where can I gowhere I need this?
Fiona Kane (50:39):
so yeah, take your time and sometimes friendships
have seasons as well, and sosometimes we feel like if we
lost friends from earlier inlife or or other friends, that
we won't make friends again.
But you can and you will, uhit's.
It's just, uh, the seasons inlife and just sometimes some
people are in your life for aseason or for a certain part of
(51:00):
your life and, uh, there can beother people maybe later on.
So it's it's, uh, I think wesometimes get to, yeah, we think
if we lose friends or we haveto, um, yeah, and I think
sometimes we're afraid to moveon from relationship you know
toxic friendships and things,thinking that we won't find
another friend, but actuallythat will create a space for
(51:21):
that new friend to come into ourlife.
Chintamani Bird (51:24):
I think so, and sometimes I think we need to.
Actually, I think one of thebiggest things for us is to
realise that self-awareness andlistening to what's here,
instead of just having monkeymind like just oh wait, but
actually taking a pause, takinga pause and just going okay, yes
(51:50):
, it may suck, or it might bejoyful, or it might be painful,
it might be, whatever it may be,but stop, take a moment, listen
to your heart, listen toyourself, listen to what your
body is saying.
There's a great book that saysyour Body Keeps School.
Highly recommend it, you know.
(52:11):
It talks about how our cellsare living, parts of energy,
parts of us, and it talks abouthow it keeps our history in us
until we try to change or healthat part of us.
So it's really important tothink about these things and how
we can actually translate andconnection.
(52:34):
It could be.
I like crocheting.
I like I've jumped out ofairplanes.
I've yes, I had to learn towalk again.
I, you know, I've scuba divewith sharks.
I've scuba dived on shipwrecks.
You know, like there are somany different things that life
can offer you.
But let's connect to what andwho you are.
(52:58):
Let's connect to our world.
Let's, instead of focusing onthe hurting, let's actually get
out, join somewhere that we canactually help others heal, or a
park that heals, or people thatheals, or let's you know.
Join a gardening group,whatever it is.
Fiona Kane (53:20):
Yeah, just as connection.
So for some people it might betheir church group, other people
it might be their gardeninggroup or their fan group or
their craft group or theirvolunteering at the local,
wherever you know.
It doesn't really matter whatit is.
What matters is it's connectionfor you and it's a place where
you feel valued and where youfeel that you matter and that
(53:46):
you can make a difference, butalso you feel connected.
Chintamani Bird (53:49):
That's right, and I think I once said to
someone and I can relate this tomy own life no one is going to
knock on your door and say be myfriend, you have to walk out of
that door.
And I know from my experience.
The day of that bloody horseriding accident I tried and I
(54:11):
went bang.
Life gave me a bit of a joltand a kick and I could have
shrunk A bit bit of a jolt and akick and I could have shrunk A
bit, just a bit.
Fiona Kane (54:20):
Just a bit, a bit of a jolt.
Chintamani Bird (54:23):
This is a lady for a hundred.
Fiona Kane (54:28):
I'm playing things slightly.
Chintamani Bird (54:32):
But I think you know COVID was a great example
of that.
You know, no one's going toknock on my door yeah so one of
the things I love is board games, so I went on facebook and I
found a local board game groupand through that, you know, I've
been going for three years, umand like it's a beautiful outlet
(54:58):
because I'm creatingfriendships.
I'm putting that you need todedicate that energy to it
because it's not going to belike I.
You know, I didn't, I didn'tsort of come up with the thought
of healing within a moment.
It's evolved, it's transformed,it's it's like baking and
(55:19):
evolving and folding that air,those eggs, into a cake, into
baking, like and I'm not, um,I'm still learning, I'm still
evolving, I'm still growing, I'mstill knowing who I am and
working that out, and that'ssomething I'm cherishing.
So I think we need tounderstand healing is about
(55:45):
having courage to walk out thatdoor, having courage to fall
down and not be able to walkagain, and having to learn to
walk again and having to fightthose demons and fight those
dark moments.
Where you go, I just want togive up.
(56:05):
Yes, I want the pain to finish.
You know it doesn't have to befinite.
Fiona Kane (56:18):
The opportunities are infinite, but you just gotta
choose yeah, yeah, that'sreally powerful and, um, really,
I suppose to, I suppose we needto wind up, but I I something
that I think underlies what alot of what you just said is
(56:38):
storytelling, the stories thatwe tell ourselves.
Right, and you could have said,all right, I've got this person
with agoraphobia and, like yousaid, you put everything that
you had to going out that doorand getting on the horse and,
you know, arranging to be withthat friend.
So you were doing all of likeright things inverted commas to
heal.
You're like, okay, I'm going togo outside and I'm going to
(57:00):
connect with my friend and I'mgoing to connect with a horse,
and life threw at you this huge,huge curveball and kind of
destroyed a lot of that veryquickly, at least for that time.
And you could have very easilysaid to yourself look, I tried,
I talked like I tried, I did it,and look what life did to me
and it's like it's out to get meand and and pull me and I'm,
(57:23):
I'm just gonna go back insideand hide and never come out
again, type of thing.
And you know, no one would havenecessarily said you would have
been justified in feeling thatway.
Um, however, uh, and you mighthave felt that way for for for a
while, because you know you'rehuman and that's okay, but but
you know, ultimately, though,that story wasn't going to help
(57:45):
you, was it long, long term?
A story like that isn't helpful.
So, really, what you did is youkind of it's the journaling.
Everything you're talking aboutis really just reframing that
story, isn't it?
Chintamani Bird (57:56):
100%.
I think, when we look at whenwe actually get out of our own
way sometimes and see, as I said, only good can come with this,
only seeing how thetransformation can happen, and
it's not simultaneous, it's notinstantaneous, it doesn't happen
(58:20):
straight away, but when we canactually say I went one
millimetre, I won today becauseI went one millimetre.
And if one millimetre is toomuch for you, and if one
millimeter is too much for you,if you can't do one millimeter
(58:44):
today, do a quarter of amillimeter.
Fiona Kane (58:47):
Yes, yeah, just do something.
Do something and consider thestory that you're telling
yourself, because it's ourstories that can really limit us
or it's our stories that canhelp set us free and help us
have that healing.
And your journal and thatgratitude practice in your
journal obviously helped youwith that 100%.
Chintamani Bird (59:01):
I still have that journal.
It's just an exercise book,great School exercise book.
Fiona Kane (59:07):
Still have it.
Look.
Thank you so much for sharingthose stories today.
They were really powerfulstories.
I know you've got many more,but we just had to narrow it
down to those.
But they were huge and I feellike hearing some of those
stories will be reallybeneficial to my audience.
So just thank you so much forsharing today.
Chintamani Bird (59:28):
You're welcome and thank you so much for having
me.
I really appreciate it.
Fiona Kane (59:32):
Fiona, thank you, and I will put any contacts in
in the show notes for people ifthey want to get in contact with
you.
But is there a particular waythat people can find you if they
want to get in contact with you?
Chintamani Bird (59:44):
yeah, so I have um I on linkedin and I'm also
have a website called studiochintamani.
Um, and yeah, so, and I I alsohave social media on Instagram
and Facebook, so you can alwayscontact me through the website
or through Studio Chintamani orChintamani Bird on LinkedIn.
You can always grab hold of me.
Fiona Kane (01:00:07):
Okay, and we'll pop whatever relevant links into the
show notes as well.
So thank you so much,Chintamani.
It's been really interestingtalking to you and I really
appreciate you sharing yourstory you're welcome.
Chintamani Bird (01:00:19):
Thank you so much appreciate it.
Fiona Kane (01:00:20):
Thank you and thank you.
Everyone at home who'slistening and watching you know.
Please remember to like,subscribe and share so more
people find out about thispodcast.
I really appreciate you uh, youbeing part of the community and
listening.
The Wellness Connection is apodcast where we have real
conversations about things thatmatter, so I'll see you all
(01:00:42):
again next week.
Thank you, bye.
Hello and welcome to the Wellness Connection Podcast
with Fiona Kane.
I have another guest today andwe're going to be talking about
focusing on healing and nothurting.
My guest today is ChintamaniBird.
Hi, Chintamani.
Chintamani Bird (00:16):
Hi Fiona, thank you for having me.
I'm so excited to be here today.
Fiona Kane (00:22):
Well, I'm glad that you agreed to come on and I'm
sure that our listeners andwatchers will when they hear
your story, because it's aninteresting story, or some of
your stories anyway, becauseyou've got many.
For those who don't know you,would you like to introduce
yourself a little bit?
Chintamani Bird (00:38):
Sure, at the moment.
I studied to be an interiordesigner in my 40s and I one of
the things that drives me.
I've also worked with kids withdisabilities as a teacher's
aide, and I think I've worn manyhats over the years, you know
(00:58):
being a mum, I've been aninterior designer, teacher's
aide, I've also worked infinance and all these sort of
different things.
But one of the things thatbrings me here today is I really
am quite passionate aboutsomething that we call biophilic
design and people go hmm, whatis?
Fiona Kane (01:20):
that?
Yeah, it's biophilic design.
What is that yeah?
Chintamani Bird (01:25):
So one of the things, one of my passions is
the environment, mental health,and when you're actually
designing spaces, you canactually impact people's mental
health, physical wellbeing andalso expedite physical healing.
So, and one of the things thatI love and that's just how you
(01:47):
design spaces, you know, and oneof the big things like
biophilic design is translatedmeans love of life you know,
love of life Beautiful.
And sometimes we don't reallyknow what that means, you know.
And so biophilic designsupports.
(02:09):
You know we often think aboutjust surviving life, just being
able to get through the day.
You know, things happen andthings aren't always rosy, you
know, and one of the thingsabout biophilic design it's you
have thriving and you have um,just surviving.
(02:30):
And in between that, totraverse between one to two, is
healing, and by the biophilicdesign is the ability to support
your own healing.
And it's really important thatwe look at.
You know, it's such a massivesort of concept that we really
(02:53):
need to understand.
How in the hell do I do that?
And it's through connection,and biophilic design is all
about connection connection toyourself, connection to the
environment, connection to theplace that you live in, and so
(03:13):
really interesting stuff.
You know we often love going tobeaches for holidays and
different things, so biophilicdesign is a way to translate
your environment into somethingthat can heal not only your
heart, your soul, your body andyour mind, and this is all
(03:34):
clinically proven.
This is something that they doin hospitals, prisons in Norway,
hospitals in Norway and inSingapore.
Changi Hospital does it.
It's a big biophilic designcity, so it's a massive amount
of science that goes into this.
Fiona Kane (03:54):
I was thinking about that when you were talking
about that just before you saidholidays, I was thinking the
same thing.
I was thinking probably one ofthe reasons that people you know
feel rest and restored afterholidays.
Obviously there's lots ofdifferent reasons, but one of
them reasons that people youknow um, feel rest and restored
after holidays.
Obviously there's lots ofdifferent reasons, but one of
them is that we're often aredrawn to the beach or the forest
or the bush or somewhere,somewhere very nature sort of
(04:15):
place, and so we're often, uh,quite connected to nature and
have lots of and stay somewherethat's beautiful or be in the be
in nature's beauty somewhere,and that's part of it.
Isn't it part of why holidaysare so healing?
Chintamani Bird (04:30):
It is One of the things with the studies,
with biophilic design and howthey've proven it is that we're
genetically geared for our ownsurvival to be connected to the
environment because we live onthis planet.
We are not above this planet.
We are acting to be integratedinto this planet, despite
(04:53):
Gucci's thoughts, anyway.
So when we're looking atbiophilic design, we really need
to understand that.
When we're connected to otherliving systems because that's
what biophilic design we reallyneed to understand that.
When we're connected to otherliving systems because that's
what biophilic design is thewater, the animals, the trees,
the plants, you know, indigenousculture is really very, very
(05:20):
integral part of living withcountry.
Or you have the Inuits, whoalso have their own sort of
version of that, as well as theIndigenous cultures of not Spain
, of America.
You're sort of looking at allhow we are meant to be.
We are preordained genetically,biochemically connected to
(05:45):
other things.
Fiona Kane (05:48):
Yes, yeah, it's a very big thing in the health
space where we're looking atwith people.
You know, we're always talkingto people about their circadian
rhythms and their circadianrhythms so that's 24-hour cycle
on how your body, a lot of yourprocesses in your body work
based on light at a certain timeof day and dark at a certain
time of day and going out andbeing in that natural light for
(06:09):
certain parts of the day andbeing connected with nature and
things like grounding and so alot of that is.
You know, we're seeing that nowwith issues that people have
with stress and sleep and somany health issues and really in
health we are sort of startingto look at that.
And also, being a nutritionist,I talk to people about the you
know the seasons and sort ofeating seasonally, so eating
(06:33):
sort of local grown seasonalfood as opposed to something
that's been flown in from theother side of the world.
That's not part of your seasonkind of thing.
So, yes, we are seeing inhealth we're starting to join
the dots and kind of go back andsay, oh okay, it's not just
about whether or not you havevitamin B3 or whatever it is,
while those individual thingscan be useful, but it's also a
(06:55):
lot about connecting back inwith that whole, connecting with
the space that we live in, theplace that we live in and all of
the energy of that energy ofthe earth, energy of the spirit
world, whatever it is, howeveryou describe it, but it's
connecting back in with thatenergy.
Chintamani Bird (07:12):
Yes, I think connection is really an
important part of life and weare so drawn to how our
environment really sort of talksto us and how we talk to it.
One of the studies that we showis that well, not me personally
(07:35):
show, but that has been recordedis that when you're actually
dealing with either cancer orwith mental health issues, if
you actually are in a hospitaland you have a window facing
concrete, your brain doesn'tunderstand what's going on, so
(07:55):
it actually increases the painresponse to you, so you feel
more pain, your cortisol levelsincrease, which is again not
great for healing.
Um, and also, uh, you will findthat you'll need more
medication compared toconnecting to a vista or a view,
um, having plants in the space,having fractals in the space,
(08:20):
feeling connected to yourenvironment, and it could be
just the window, um, you'll findthat there was a study in
Norway which I always bring up,in a psychiatric hospital.
They designed in a certain waywith direct and indirect causes
with the world, and within 12months there was a 50% reduction
(08:43):
in the psychiatric hospital ofphysical restraints.
There was a 20% reduction inmedication people needing
medication.
And this is for people withsevere psychiatric disorders.
So it is incredible how justconnecting to the environment,
(09:05):
connecting to the world,connecting to the people, how
healing that actually can be.
Fiona Kane (09:12):
Yes, yeah, and if anyone's wondering what that
sound is, you're babysitting adog.
So there's just a little doggyin the background, isn't there?
People are like what's thatfunny sound?
Chintamani Bird (09:21):
We have three dogs here two sausage dogs and
three little um uh chihuahua.
That's um.
Fiona Kane (09:29):
Yeah, that needs a lot of support I can just see
the little little feet movingaround and people might be what.
What is that sound?
So just if you're listening athome, you come what is that
weird sound?
That's what it is.
It's a biophilic design.
It it's just natural,connecting to nature.
It's all part of it.
(09:50):
But you know, the other thingtoo is that, in regards to sort
of health studies and things,there is a study the longest
study I think, that has beendone on looking at longevity,
and not just longevity buthaving our brain function, our
cognitive function, for a longtime, you know, for the longest
time, and you know they've beendoing this study for a long time
, for the longest time, andthey've been doing this study
for a long time through HarvardUniversity.
And I think they thought whenthey first started doing it that
they were going to find thatthe answer to longevity was
(10:13):
something like your cholesterolnumber or some other thing like
that.
But they actually found it'sconnection that when you have
connection to other people andpeople have your back, that is
actually what bodes well forlongevity and good cognitive
function as we get older.
Yeah, which won't surprise you.
Chintamani Bird (10:35):
I think one of the things that is really
surprising is how the brainworks.
You know I love psychology andthat's part of the biophilic
design and how the brainactually reacts to certain
spaces and certain environments,and also that is through life
experience.
But there's also that geneticreptilian brain that really has
(10:58):
evolved and is fully formed whenwe're born.
It doesn't need any moreformation doesn't need any
growth, like the prefrontalcortex, which isn't until our
mid to late 20s that iscompletely fully formed.
So yeah, connection and how weactually live in our environment
(11:20):
.
We are born with that andthat's, you know, and the other
ways of survival, the other waysof how we actually deal with
the world, or how we relate tothe world and how we connect to
the world.
Again, there is a preordained,pre-biologically made up, like
(11:42):
we are predestined to actuallyfind connection, and that could
be to the environment or otherliving things.
Fiona Kane (11:55):
Yeah, and that's what we sort of look for so much
.
I think even Johan Hari's book,his book Lost Connections, and
I think that he was saying inhis book that he believes that,
uh, a lot of things likeaddiction and those sorts of
issues, um they're, they're,they're from a loss of
connection, that's what they'resort of.
The opposite to addiction ishave is being connected.
(12:16):
So it's like when peoplehaven't got connection, um that
can really affect their mentalhealth and those things.
Chintamani Bird (12:24):
I think one of the things about addiction and
just from my personal experienceis that we really sometimes the
pain is a lot and we need tonumb, we need to disassociate,
we need to because it's a a lot.
(12:45):
It is a lot, yeah, and sometimesthe that ache that we feel
inside is so excruciating thatwe can't um, we need an escape,
we need to disassociate, we needto like.
The brain is an amazing tooland it will do and it will look
(13:07):
for any way to survive, any way.
And we're not talking aboutthriving, we're not talking
about healing, we're just likeliving and breathing.
You know, and one of the thingsum, again, you know, I have
many stories, but one of the oneof the things that I, I really
have experienced is when thereis no hope and it's just all you
(13:34):
see is pain.
It becomes consuming, itbecomes very consuming in how
you relate to the world, and thebrain will go.
Well, how can I get out of this?
How can I find a way out ofthis terrible situation?
(13:54):
And addiction is one of them,because we need to numb, numb
and we need to.
Just, it's a case of actuallybeing able to function while not
functioning.
You know, that's thatdisassociation.
(14:16):
And it's incredible because Ireally feel that I remember
there was a time where I didn'tknow where to go, I didn't know
what to do and to limit our time, like make sure that within
(14:39):
those timeframes today.
But I remember, you know, whenI I was younger, the only joy I
had and there was a lot of otherissues going on was I loved
horses.
I loved how it was a connectionto the horse, it was connection
to the world.
It was connection to me becauseeverything else was not.
(15:02):
It was horrible.
And so I had a horse.
His name was Spike and I lovedhim.
It was just my outlet.
It was my escape as well.
It wasn't just about connection,it was an escape as well, and I
think, through addiction alsois a way of just trying to
(15:25):
survive.
Really, we are like we are alljust trying to survive this
world, which is a really sadplace to be.
So, bringing that back into2010, I was in a dark place, a
very dark place, and my husbandwas, like, what can we do, what
you know?
(15:45):
And I just thought and itsounds a little bit, I guess,
like you could do that, like Iwanted to actually be connected
to horses, you know.
And so we were in the rightsituation where we, like I saved
up the money and I made surethat I could do everything and I
did all the the you know,because I, the day that I said
(16:09):
to my husband I don't know whatelse to do.
I was in so much pain, um,emotional pain and mental pain,
and I said I don't know whatelse to do and, um, we say, I
saved up.
I was really sort of consciousof what to do and at the time I
also was suffering fromagoraphobia.
(16:30):
So this was a case of Icouldn't go outside without my
family and I couldn't makedecisions for myself.
So I was really dysfunctional,I couldn't do anything and I
thought, okay, let this be theanswer.
And it was hard.
It was really hard because Iloved this horse, you know, and
(16:52):
it was the only outlet I had.
But I think I bought the horsein.
I think it was, I just have tothink about this.
I think it was in 2010.
Yep, it was somebody about 2010, late 2010.
(17:12):
And I loved that horse and Iwas hoping that it would
actually help me find friendsand help me hope to actually
really support me, to actuallyreally support me.
Because what happened was, withthe agoraphobia, it was really
hard for me to.
(17:32):
I was so frightened to get outof the front door, I was so
frightened to actually to make adecision and in fear of it was
going to be the wrong decisionor like I was just completely
incapacitated, you know.
So then one day I went right.
(17:55):
I mustered all my strengths,all my strengths.
I rang this person I knew whohad another horse, and I said,
come on, let's do this.
And I was talking to myself.
I was like, come on, come on,let's do this.
So out the back of the housethere was a park and the horse
(18:20):
lived in our yard.
It was an acre, so it wasn't asuburban yard.
Yes, right.
And I mustered every fibre ofmy being to actually get up, get
up off that lounge and not befrozen in fear, not be so
(18:40):
petrified of life, and I thought, okay, right, saddled up the
horse, went out the back fenceand the lady came, my friend
came, she saddled up her horseand I then decided and then I
(19:02):
got on.
That was not a good idea.
I started trotting and withinmoments my horse bolted and
started to buck.
Wow, and I was in my 40s and Iwas not an experienced rider
(19:24):
because my experience was when Iwas in my 40s and I was not an
experienced rider because myexperience was when I was 12.
Off, I went Bang Right on mycoccyx and I couldn't move my
legs.
I couldn't move my legs.
Wow, I'm writhing in pain.
(19:46):
So funny Note to self whensomeone's writhing in pain,
don't stand there or sit thereand go.
It's okay, chintamani.
Think of blue ocean waves,because that's what the lady was
doing.
Think of blue.
(20:08):
She was trying to meditate withme?
Fiona Kane (20:11):
yeah, no, there's times for meditation, but
there's also times for callingthe ambulance and not the same
time necessarily.
Chintamani Bird (20:21):
So, and I'm just like, and so my son, who's
actually in the house, can hearme scream he comes out and with
the phone and my husband at thetime is a paramedic and he's on
shift down at the local stationand all he can hear is I can't
(20:46):
move my legs and that's all thatwas happening.
So, oh, then there was a wholelot of ambulances and
helicopters and he got there in11 minutes and that's a
25-minute drive.
He drove fast, he was in theambulance and so um, yeah and
I'm just like, and the, the, youknow like, you think about the
(21:10):
pain and oh my lord.
So anyway, I get loaded into ahelicopter and I get transported
to Westman hospital and stillcan't move my legs.
You know, in that helicopterthis is so funny I needed to
hold someone's hand.
(21:31):
There was this voice inside ofme I just want to hold someone's
hand.
Now I thought it was myhusband's hand.
My husband was looking out thewindow in the helicopter.
It was not my husband's hand.
My husband was looking out thewindow in the helicopter.
It was not my husband's hand,it was the paramedic who was
actually treating me.
(21:52):
It was the nurse who wastreating me and I was just
stroking.
You know how you strokesomeone's hand.
I was stroking her hand.
I just needed that humanconnection, that human touch.
Yes, anyway, so we arrive.
I got into the ICU.
They tried to make me stand,which was like what?
But okay, couldn't do that.
And then, eventually, I went upto the ward.
(22:15):
It was the night and I was onmorphine.
I still felt the pain.
It was horrible, and I couldn'teven go to the toilet.
I couldn't go to the toiletmyself.
So that was horrible.
And this is the difference.
(22:38):
The next morning my husbandsaid do you need anything, do
you want something?
And I went I want my journal, Iwant to write, okay.
So it's like day two and you'reasking for your journal.
Fiona Kane (22:57):
Yeah, wow.
Chintamani Bird (23:00):
And I'm going and they brought cards, because
I like board games and cardgames and stuff.
And so the kids are on my bedand they're playing.
And I mean, they're teenagers,they're young adolescents, very
young adolescents.
And I'm thinking, okay, thiswas a good kick up the ass that
(23:28):
I got, this was a wonderfulwake-up call.
This was an amazing wake-upcall.
I'm breathing, I'm not dead,I'm breathing.
The kids are playing Wow, I'mbreathing.
The kids are playing.
Wow, I'm breathing.
I'm not dead, I'm not like, I'mnot paralyzed, I just can't
(23:51):
move my legs, but I'm breathing.
And that moment was like awonderful, you know, wake-up
call, because I'm alive.
It took me three months tolearn to walk again.
(24:12):
I still get pain, was it's how?
Like you know, I needed areality check that life wasn't
(24:34):
well life.
I had a choice.
I had a choice to go.
So poor me and don't get mewrong, there's been lots of
times of that but I just wasgrateful I was alive, I could
(24:55):
breathe on my own.
So many times when people haveaccidents, it doesn't end well,
it doesn't end well, and so thatwas a real pivotal moment that
I needed to focus on somethingdifferent, isn't it?
Fiona Kane (25:19):
amazing, though, that you there's a couple of
things that you said thatbesides the fact that huge story
but it's the moments where youhad sort of intuition.
So your intuition was that youknew you just needed human touch
.
When you were in the helicopterwhich, I mean, I I lived with
someone with agoraphobia.
(25:41):
It's a full-on issue, and so Ican only imagine for you just
going out and being out thefront whatever was hard enough,
let alone being in a helicopterwith all this crazy stuff going
on and all of the pain andeverything else.
But one was you needed humantouch.
But then the other was that oneof your first instincts was
(26:04):
bring my diary or your journalsorry of all the things that you
could ask for.
And so I feel like to me therefeels like a whether or not you
call it a divine thing, orwhether or not you call it an
intuitive thing or whateverlanguage people have different
language or different ways theylike to think about this but it
does definitely feel like aguidance, that you're being
(26:26):
guided to something that'sbeneficial for you, and and then
having that allowed you toreflect and have that gratitude
which is kind of what's allowedyou to.
You know what we were saying atthe beginning that this is
going to be about focusing onthe healing, not the hurting.
Well, that's what it is, isn'tit?
Chintamani Bird (26:48):
It is, I think, one of the things that I read a
book once and it says pain isinevitable, happiness is
optional.
Pain is inevitable, Happinessis optional.
So, basically, you know, if Iyou know bang out, all right,
but it's how?
I relate to it.
You know that's reallyimportant and it's not an easy.
(27:12):
We need to actually understandthat healing needs courage.
We need to understand that ittakes a lot of courage and a lot
of strength to actually realisethat, not to actually just sort
of okay, collapse into the pain.
Yes, accept that it sucks.
(27:34):
And it just reminds me ofanother story that happened
after we sort of this happened,and it was about 2016.
So the horse running accidenthappened in 2011.
So not if you think abouthistory, not that long ago, but
it was, I think.
(27:54):
How old was my son?
I think my son was.
I think it was about 2015, 2016.
Um, my husband, my son, actuallyworked at McDonald's and one of
the things, um, that he alwaysdid, he always brought me an
orange juice after his shift.
I would pick him up and, um, hewould bring out their issues
(28:18):
and it didn't matter how late atnight.
He was one of the managersthere and he really, really
enjoyed this job.
And one of the things I alwaysinstilled into my son is, you
know, a bit of a philosophy onlygood can come of this.
You know, only good can, nomatter what happens, we can
translate this into somethinggood.
(28:40):
You know, things may suck rightnow, but it is a way that we
are able to translate andtransform ourselves.
So, one night, middle of winter,in Richmond, in New South Wales
, here in Australia, and thenbitterly cold.
(29:01):
It's August, it's bitterly coldand I come to McDonald's car
park, I wait for my son tofinish his shift.
And then there was this as Iparked, there was a car just
ahead of me and I was like, oh,and I kept on being my attention
(29:23):
kept on being drawn to this car, just like you know, like who
is that?
I could see someone sitting inthe car.
I could see, you know.
It was just a bit odd, you know, and I'm just like, okay,
anyway, just waiting, waitingfor my own shoes, waiting for my
son.
Anyway, he eventually comes out, he's got his two cup holders
(29:44):
and his two drinks, two largeMcDonald's orange juices, yummo,
anyway.
And I then sort of started topull away and I started passing
this car and because I kept onlooking over this car, like, and
seeing this person while Iwaited, I started pulling
(30:07):
forward.
I was looked and there was aman, a young man.
He was about 18, 19 years oldand he was sobbing.
He's sobbing and I old and hewas sobbing, he's sobbing and I
went and I stopped the car, Igot out of my car, I walked
(30:29):
around the back of my car and upto his Tap, tap, tap, tap.
Are you all right?
He's on the phone at the timeand I didn't know at the time,
right as I tapped, he was on thephone to Lifeline because the
(30:50):
last three hours he had beennegotiating whether he go home
or put himself on the railwaytracks because the car park is
right next to the railway tracks, to the train station.
Fiona Kane (31:05):
Oh, it gives you chills.
Chintamani Bird (31:10):
And he goes and I said are you all right?
No, nothing's all right.
And he just burst into tears,he burst into this incredible
emotional flurry of pain and Isaid to him it's going to be all
(31:33):
right.
It's going to be all right.
And he said no, it's not.
No, how dare you talk to melike that?
It's never going to be likethat.
Fiona Kane (31:43):
sorry about the dogs , um and dogs are getting
involved in the story too.
Chintamani Bird (31:50):
Yeah, they are you feel the energy picking up
on the energy energy yeah.
So I said come out, because Iknew I could say it.
I knew I could say it.
I said get out the car for me,get out of the car and it you've
(32:11):
got to remember.
And so he gets out of the car.
He's wearing a tank top it'sthree degrees outside and ripped
board shorts.
He's got nothing on him.
Three degrees.
Fiona Kane (32:22):
Celsius for those who are listening elsewhere.
It was very, very cold.
Chintamani Bird (32:27):
Yes, yeah, it's freezing, it's so cold.
And then I said I want you tolook up this website because at
the time I had a website.
All right, I want you to readthis Now.
Mind you, lifeline is still onthe phone.
He hasn't hung up.
(32:48):
So through this whole story,please remember, lifeline is
already and stays on the phonelistening to this story.
Fiona Kane (32:57):
Yes.
Chintamani Bird (33:00):
So one of the things.
So I said to him read this.
And he started reading thiswebsite.
I gave him and he looked up atme.
He stared into my eyes.
He said my life's not that hard.
I said this is my story.
(33:21):
My life's not that hard.
I said this is my story, mylife's not that bad, is that?
what you just said.
My life's not that bad, mylife's not that hard, my life's
not that hard.
And I stared back at him.
I said this is my story.
He said I thought so.
He said I thought so and I saidit's really important to
(33:46):
understand right now thatsomeone cares about you.
Fiona Kane (33:49):
I care about you.
Chintamani Bird (33:52):
Yes, we need to focus on the healing, not on
the hurting.
Wow, my son is still in the carlistening to this.
So I never keep a clean car.
But in the back of my car I hada goose down and a rack jacket.
(34:13):
So I went and dived into my carand I actually put it around
his shoulders and I said Jamie,we need to understand that
someone cares about you, someoneloves you, and this is me in
front of you and he's like Isaid, I need you to understand
(34:38):
that sometimes, when we focus onthe pain, we only see pain, we
only see what is hurting us.
We can't see what can heal andhelp us.
Yes, and so I wrapped theanorak jacket around him.
It was a big, fluffy thing witha great big hood with fur
(35:00):
around the the hood.
Yeah, and for the next threehours I'm talking to jamie, I'm
saying, once you feel this, nowyou need to pay it forward.
You need to pay forward withthis jacket and help someone
else heal as well.
(35:21):
Yes, and so we talked for thenext three hours.
My son is in the back, still inthe car, you know, in the
middle of winter, in the dark,in Richmond, new South Wales.
So I went home.
Jamie went home three weekslater I think it was three weeks
(35:45):
, no, it was six weeks later.
I'm back in the mcdonald's carpark picking up my son, and it's
late and I see three youngteenagers, like they're, you
know, adolescents and they'regoing to get in the car in front
(36:08):
of me.
You know because we're in thecar park.
Oh, my Lord, there's Jamie.
He has friends.
Oh what?
Okay, yes, and he comes up tomy car and he says I just went
and saw your son to say thankyou, he had friends.
(36:29):
He said I feel so much better.
And on my bad days I come tomcdonald's car park.
I remember what happened.
Yeah, I still remember and I'mstill trying to find that person
to give that anorak to, becausehe wants to pay it forward.
Yes, and I was like this isamazing, fantastic, yeah, it's
(36:52):
beautiful.
So then, three months later, youknow, I think sometimes we need
a reality, that someone cares.
It's not words, it's a physicalpresence of energy and love,
and for jamie it was that anorak.
So three months later, it's asad day.
(37:14):
I need to take my son uh, takelunch to my son in the
mcdonald's car park.
And so it was incrediblebecause I went in tupperware,
container in in hand, and thenthis young man an older woman so
came to me.
It was Jamie.
(37:34):
He looked completely different.
Oh my God.
He looked different and he saidI'm looking to become, do some
education.
He was going to be either atravel agent or he wanted to
travel.
He wanted to do a few thingsand I went this is fantastic,
this is so amazing.
This is great.
Then I turned to the olderwoman.
(37:56):
I said hi, my name'sChinchamani.
She said I know who you are.
You gave me my son back andthat sort of like.
She said we can't believe thatit's happened.
It's amazing that it happened,but we keep on looking at that
(38:20):
jacket and saying it wasn't adream.
Yes.
So I think sometimes gettingthat sort of reality check of
what life could be and knowingthat we can connect and we can
(38:40):
heal, that's the most importantthing.
Fiona Kane (38:46):
Yeah, for sure, for sure.
So I'm just sort of sittinghere trying not to cry but
trying and failing, because it'ssuch a beautiful story and it's
just a beautiful story and it'sjust there's so many layers to
that, isn't there, I mean, youknow one is that, again, it's
you were listening to yourintuition or you were being
guided.
You know what's going on inthat car.
(39:08):
Why were you so attracted tothat car?
Why were you looking at thatcar?
You know Most people arewhatever, but you know you were
listening to that intuition.
You know most people arewhatever, but you know you were
listening to that intuition andyou looked.
And the other thing is youlooked, and a lot of us, when we
see stuff that looks like it'shard or that we don't want to
deal with or whatever, we justkeep walking and we just keep
driving or whatever.
(39:28):
So not only did you getattracted to the car and you
look, but then you saw thisperson in pain and you stopped
what you were doing and went tothem.
You know, and that's so.
And I think on one hand, I'msaying there should be more of
that, but on the other hand, Ithink there is a lot of stories
(39:51):
like these, you hear thesestories, and that reminds that,
that reminds you of of humansand a human connection and and I
think it's good to it's thatkind of whole thing that you
know, like on the news.
You know, if you watch the newsand I haven't watched it for a
long time, but when you do watchthe news it's kind of like you
know what is it if it bleeds, itleads kind of thing, and they,
(40:13):
they really want to do.
Most of the news is all of theawful stuff and all the horrible
things that people are doing toeach other and all the wars and
all the rest of it.
And then they might do like ahappy puppy story at the end or
a kindness sort of volunteeringstory or something.
And the problem is is it givesyou this like.
I think it gives you thisfeeling like everything's bad in
(40:34):
the world and there's not thatmuch good, and but when you look
at any of the bad things thathappen in the world, there's
good things that happen alongwith them or happen afterwards
or whatever it is.
It was that sort of story of Ithink I can't remember who said
this, but they.
Someone said that, you know,when he was getting overwhelmed
with seeing other stories in theworld.
(40:55):
At some point his mother saidto him um, don't focus on that,
focus on the helpers, focus onthe people who are fixing it or
going and helping whatever.
So if you see a disaster, it'slike, oh my god, there's this
terrible disaster, but look atall those volunteers that are
there helping.
You know, and it's always goback to just remembering that
there, you know that there aremany human beings out there who
(41:19):
are doing these things and thesethings are happening and it
would be great if it couldhappen even more absolutely.
But, as she is good for us toacknowledge, because we, because
of the way that uh, media isand social media and all the
rest of it, clickbait,everything else uh, a lot of
things for a long time have beenaimed at sort of the nasty
stuff and we don't focus onthese kind of stories enough.
(41:41):
And it's these stories that arereally, really important to
help to keep people justbelieving in humankind,
believing in kindness, believingin love and compassion and all
those things.
So I think that stories likethis, it's really important to
highlight these stories and itis one of the reasons why there
(42:02):
is a genre online on YouTube andstuff of people doing more
inspirational sort of storiesand people.
You see the amount of viewsthey get.
They get many, many views and Iunderstand why.
I think it's part of us lookingfor connection.
Chintamani Bird (42:18):
Looking for connection but also looking for
proof that there's beauty in theworld and uh and so, yeah,
stories like this are reallyimportant to highlight on for so
many reasons yeah, I think thethe um one of the things is, you
know, with all of thatagitation, with news, and that
it really links into our senseof and the autonomic nervous
(42:41):
system of survival.
We need to survive, we need to,you know, and that agitation is
part of that autonomic nervoussystem and that fight.
You know, like we have toprotect, we have to guard, we
have to.
You know, like we have toprotect, we have to guard, we
have to.
(43:01):
And I think what I was sayingearlier is that there's a
difference between just gettingby and yes, there's a lot of
yuckiness in the world too, likethat is a very, very bland way
of saying it, but there is ahorrible, heinous, malicious ick
.
Yes, but yes, and I'veexperienced a lot of that
personally in my life, so I'mnot coming from a place of my
(43:25):
head in the clouds you know,I've experienced a lot of pain
and a lot of trauma.
But one of the things for me isthat the only time that we
really sort of life gets betteris, like you were saying, what
we focus on horrible things ordo we want to actually get into
(43:53):
that ventral, vagal nervoussystem?
Connect with other people, findlike-minded people that
actually have the same values ofwanting to find?
peace wanting to find a way tothrive that is magical and
grounded.
(44:13):
Magical and grounded, you know,because one of the things that
we see in life is, if we justsee the dark, we are unable to
see the light.
But there cannot be any lightwithout the dark because it's
that contrast.
Fiona Kane (44:32):
Yeah, the truth is that it's all there, they come
together and life both exists.
As for us, it's what you weresaying before.
It's what we choose to see aswell, because sometimes we
choose to only focus on one, andthey're both there.
But if you focus on seeing thelight, that will help you, but
if you only focus on seeing thedark, then that's all you will
(44:54):
see.
That will help you.
Chintamani Bird (44:56):
But if you only focus on seeing the dark, then
that's all you will see, and Ithink the oxymoron of this also
is that if you only focus on thelight, this is going to sound
counterintuitive.
You are unable to heal from thedark.
Yeah, you know.
Fiona Kane (45:13):
So for me it's that kind of shadow stuff of not
acknowledging the, the, notacknowledging the sort of what's
a, what's the best term for it.
Well, our shadow side, all theall, the um, all the challenging
parts of us, all the all thetrauma or history or things like
that.
(45:33):
So, yeah, both exist.
Chintamani Bird (45:36):
Both exist and having that strength.
So for me, my journey has beenone that has given me such
courage, such strength, andthere has been so many times I
wanted to give up, just thoughtI wish I didn't have a reason to
(45:56):
feel strong, I wish I didn'thave a reason to be courageous.
But it is that reason, thatsituation, that has put the
pressure on me to either sink,swim or blossom.
And don't get me wrong, I'm notperfect.
(46:20):
I've made lots of mistakes inmy life, I've done the wrong
thing.
But I think, in your heart,when you know your heart and
when you focus on, look, whenyou're doing, when you
experience trauma like myself,um, and a life full of trauma,
(46:42):
uh, you, you can get prettyconsumed with it.
You know and you go oh, that'sa pretty sought to heal.
But think about it If I didn'tface how I felt, how I related
to that situation, how am.
(47:03):
I going to deal with?
How am I going to actually beable to transform it?
You know I'm going to quote DrPhil.
It's terrible.
Fiona Kane (47:16):
I love Dr Phil.
It's terrible I love Dr Phil.
Chintamani Bird (47:17):
I really love him.
You can't change what you don'tacknowledge and acknowledging
is really important.
Acknowledging and that's thefirst step of healing, you know,
acknowledging it sucked, oracknowledging how it has
transformed you or the sheerrage of how it actually feels,
(47:40):
how you felt about it.
It's a step.
Always get professional help.
Whoever is listening to thisAlways get professional help.
I'm 100% on professional help,but getting the right
professional help, because I'vehad professional help before and
(48:00):
it was like trying to combat adragon with a feather.
So always find the right fieldthat suits you personally.
Fiona Kane (48:12):
But I think one of the things and there's not
really a perfect way of figuringthat out, is there?
It's more.
I think that we just have totry different things and just
know that if that's not theright thing or if that's not the
right professional, there'll besomebody else or something else
.
And so it's just to keep trying, is that?
Chintamani Bird (48:32):
100%, and I think one of the things also is
that you know, I tried, I did um, I rebirthing breath work, I
did um.
I went and found a guru andthat's where I get my name from.
I went, did meditation, I didcrystal healing, I did spiritual
(48:53):
healing, I did um, I did trauma, trauma-informed yoga.
I've done um.
So it wasn't a case of um sortof giving up.
It was like where is the answer?
Yes, the answer is actuallywithin me.
I just needed the person toactually reflect that, and so I
(49:17):
eventually settled with aclinical psychologist who
specialises in trauma.
But one of the things that alsoI've discovered is when you're
looking at psychology and you'relooking at your environment and
you're looking at who and whatsupports you, it's really
(49:41):
important to actually not onlyhave people that actually um.
I think support is a verygeneric word um, but I've got a
friend who knows me.
I've you know, she knows who Iam, she knows my quirky parts
(50:04):
and but I didn't meet until Iwas 50 because all the other
friends were based on unhealthyrelationships.
But getting someone to actuallywho is safe to know, who is
safe to actually expose yourselfto and who is safe to actually
(50:26):
share, and sometimes myexperience is that it's very
misguided sometimes becausewe're just trying to find that
connection when, where can I gowhere I need this?
Fiona Kane (50:39):
so yeah, take your time and sometimes friendships
have seasons as well, and sosometimes we feel like if we
lost friends from earlier inlife or or other friends, that
we won't make friends again.
But you can and you will, uhit's.
It's just, uh, the seasons inlife and just sometimes some
people are in your life for aseason or for a certain part of
(51:00):
your life and, uh, there can beother people maybe later on.
So it's it's, uh, I think wesometimes get to, yeah, we think
if we lose friends or we haveto, um, yeah, and I think
sometimes we're afraid to moveon from relationship you know
toxic friendships and things,thinking that we won't find
another friend, but actuallythat will create a space for
(51:21):
that new friend to come into ourlife.
Chintamani Bird (51:24):
I think so, and sometimes I think we need to.
Actually, I think one of thebiggest things for us is to
realise that self-awareness andlistening to what's here,
instead of just having monkeymind like just oh wait, but
actually taking a pause, takinga pause and just going okay, yes
(51:50):
, it may suck, or it might bejoyful, or it might be painful,
it might be, whatever it may be,but stop, take a moment, listen
to your heart, listen toyourself, listen to what your
body is saying.
There's a great book that saysyour Body Keeps School.
Highly recommend it, you know.
(52:11):
It talks about how our cellsare living, parts of energy,
parts of us, and it talks abouthow it keeps our history in us
until we try to change or healthat part of us.
So it's really important tothink about these things and how
we can actually translate andconnection.
(52:34):
It could be.
I like crocheting.
I like I've jumped out ofairplanes.
I've yes, I had to learn towalk again.
I, you know, I've scuba divewith sharks.
I've scuba dived on shipwrecks.
You know, like there are somany different things that life
can offer you.
But let's connect to what andwho you are.
(52:58):
Let's connect to our world.
Let's, instead of focusing onthe hurting, let's actually get
out, join somewhere that we canactually help others heal, or a
park that heals, or people thatheals, or let's you know.
Join a gardening group,whatever it is.
Fiona Kane (53:20):
Yeah, just as connection.
So for some people it might betheir church group, other people
it might be their gardeninggroup or their fan group or
their craft group or theirvolunteering at the local,
wherever you know.
It doesn't really matter whatit is.
What matters is it's connectionfor you and it's a place where
you feel valued and where youfeel that you matter and that
(53:46):
you can make a difference, butalso you feel connected.
Chintamani Bird (53:49):
That's right, and I think I once said to
someone and I can relate this tomy own life no one is going to
knock on your door and say be myfriend, you have to walk out of
that door.
And I know from my experience.
The day of that bloody horseriding accident I tried and I
(54:11):
went bang.
Life gave me a bit of a joltand a kick and I could have
shrunk A bit bit of a jolt and akick and I could have shrunk A
bit, just a bit.
Fiona Kane (54:20):
Just a bit, a bit of a jolt.
Chintamani Bird (54:23):
This is a lady for a hundred.
Fiona Kane (54:28):
I'm playing things slightly.
Chintamani Bird (54:32):
But I think you know COVID was a great example
of that.
You know, no one's going toknock on my door yeah so one of
the things I love is board games, so I went on facebook and I
found a local board game groupand through that, you know, I've
been going for three years, umand like it's a beautiful outlet
(54:58):
because I'm creatingfriendships.
I'm putting that you need todedicate that energy to it
because it's not going to belike I.
You know, I didn't, I didn'tsort of come up with the thought
of healing within a moment.
It's evolved, it's transformed,it's it's like baking and
(55:19):
evolving and folding that air,those eggs, into a cake, into
baking, like and I'm not, um,I'm still learning, I'm still
evolving, I'm still growing, I'mstill knowing who I am and
working that out, and that'ssomething I'm cherishing.
So I think we need tounderstand healing is about
(55:45):
having courage to walk out thatdoor, having courage to fall
down and not be able to walkagain, and having to learn to
walk again and having to fightthose demons and fight those
dark moments.
Where you go, I just want togive up.
(56:05):
Yes, I want the pain to finish.
You know it doesn't have to befinite.
Fiona Kane (56:18):
The opportunities are infinite, but you just gotta
choose yeah, yeah, that'sreally powerful and, um, really,
I suppose to, I suppose we needto wind up, but I I something
that I think underlies what alot of what you just said is
(56:38):
storytelling, the stories thatwe tell ourselves.
Right, and you could have said,all right, I've got this person
with agoraphobia and, like yousaid, you put everything that
you had to going out that doorand getting on the horse and,
you know, arranging to be withthat friend.
So you were doing all of likeright things inverted commas to
heal.
You're like, okay, I'm going togo outside and I'm going to
(57:00):
connect with my friend and I'mgoing to connect with a horse,
and life threw at you this huge,huge curveball and kind of
destroyed a lot of that veryquickly, at least for that time.
And you could have very easilysaid to yourself look, I tried,
I talked like I tried, I did it,and look what life did to me
and it's like it's out to get meand and and pull me and I'm,
(57:23):
I'm just gonna go back insideand hide and never come out
again, type of thing.
And you know, no one would havenecessarily said you would have
been justified in feeling thatway.
Um, however, uh, and you mighthave felt that way for for for a
while, because you know you'rehuman and that's okay, but but
you know, ultimately, though,that story wasn't going to help
(57:45):
you, was it long, long term?
A story like that isn't helpful.
So, really, what you did is youkind of it's the journaling.
Everything you're talking aboutis really just reframing that
story, isn't it?
Chintamani Bird (57:56):
100%.
I think, when we look at whenwe actually get out of our own
way sometimes and see, as I said, only good can come with this,
only seeing how thetransformation can happen, and
it's not simultaneous, it's notinstantaneous, it doesn't happen
(58:20):
straight away, but when we canactually say I went one
millimetre, I won today becauseI went one millimetre.
And if one millimetre is toomuch for you, and if one
millimeter is too much for you,if you can't do one millimeter
(58:44):
today, do a quarter of amillimeter.
Fiona Kane (58:47):
Yes, yeah, just do something.
Do something and consider thestory that you're telling
yourself, because it's ourstories that can really limit us
or it's our stories that canhelp set us free and help us
have that healing.
And your journal and thatgratitude practice in your
journal obviously helped youwith that 100%.
Chintamani Bird (59:01):
I still have that journal.
It's just an exercise book,great School exercise book.
Fiona Kane (59:07):
Still have it.
Look.
Thank you so much for sharingthose stories today.
They were really powerfulstories.
I know you've got many more,but we just had to narrow it
down to those.
But they were huge and I feellike hearing some of those
stories will be reallybeneficial to my audience.
So just thank you so much forsharing today.
Chintamani Bird (59:28):
You're welcome and thank you so much for having
me.
I really appreciate it.
Fiona Kane (59:32):
Fiona, thank you, and I will put any contacts in
in the show notes for people ifthey want to get in contact with
you.
But is there a particular waythat people can find you if they
want to get in contact with you?
Chintamani Bird (59:44):
yeah, so I have um I on linkedin and I'm also
have a website called studiochintamani.
Um, and yeah, so, and I I alsohave social media on Instagram
and Facebook, so you can alwayscontact me through the website
or through Studio Chintamani orChintamani Bird on LinkedIn.
You can always grab hold of me.
Fiona Kane (01:00:07):
Okay, and we'll pop whatever relevant links into the
show notes as well.
So thank you so much,Chintamani.
It's been really interestingtalking to you and I really
appreciate you sharing yourstory you're welcome.
Chintamani Bird (01:00:19):
Thank you so much appreciate it.
Fiona Kane (01:00:20):
Thank you and thank you.
Everyone at home who'slistening and watching you know.
Please remember to like,subscribe and share so more
people find out about thispodcast.
I really appreciate you uh, youbeing part of the community and
listening.
The Wellness Connection is apodcast where we have real
conversations about things thatmatter, so I'll see you all
(01:00:42):
again next week.
Thank you, bye.
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