What Makes a Healthy Friendship? (Signs, Boundaries & Red Flags to Know) | Ep. 117 - The Wellness Connection with Fiona Kane

Episode Transcript
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Fiona Kane (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the Wellness Connection with
Fiona Kane.
Today I actually have anotherguest and we're going to be
talking about friendship, so hername is Kelly-Anne Cummings.
Hi, Kelly-Anne.

Kelly-Anne Cummings (00:12):
Hello Fiona .
We finally get together to dothis.

Fiona Kane (00:16):
Yes, yes, this has been a long time coming, but we
finally got there.
It's all good.
It's funny because this weekI've recorded a few that were
have been a long time coming.
So some I don't know the stars,moon, something's aligning, and
it's all kind of happening thisweek, so it's good absolutely
so for those who don't know you,would you like to introduce
yourself?

certainly.
Um well, fiona's alreadymentioned my name and I would
say I'm a seasoned life coach.
I've been running a coachingpractice in the western suburbs
now for probably about 16 years,and I started that journey when
I had an eight-month-old baby.
He is now 17 or 17 or I don'tknow if I've got the dates and

(01:02):
all of that correct.
I then went on to have two morechildren during that time, and
so when I started my coachingpractice, I intentionally did it
at a slow pace because I knew Iwanted to, you know, have a
family.
So right at the very beginning Ihad no intentions of becoming
this big, huge thing.

(01:23):
No intentions of it becomingthis big, huge thing, and so I
have slowly built that up overtime and now I have three
children, two in high school,one in year six, and I've been
married for 20 years next year.
So I've just done 19 years andI just really love to support,
you know, women and theirfamilies to you.

(01:43):
To better communicate isprobably the main reason why
people come to me, and that canchange everything.

Fiona Kane (01:51):
Yeah, it absolutely can change everything.
So much of what I talk about onthis podcast is about
connection and communication andlanguage and all of that.
So you introduced me to a topic.
You said let's talk aboutfriendship, yes of that.
So you introduced me to a topic.
You said let's talk aboutfriendship, yes, and you said
let's.
For an example, let's talkabout the story of ours.

(02:12):
So that's an interesting one,because we have known each other
for a really long time over adecade at least, yeah, but I
would say, not that we've beenlike enemies or anything, but
we've only really probably beenfriends 12 months or I don't
know how long it's been, but asmaller amount of time where we
actually call each other friendsabsolutely.
And, uh, do you want to talk alittle bit about a bit about

(02:34):
that?

what your your your side of it, I suppose,
and I can jump in and tell youmy experience as well yeah, um,
well, I guess for you and I itit kind of that reconnection,
even though we've always knowneach other and mixed in the same
circles.
I think it was that opportunitythat you and I had to co-lead a
women's meeting together, whichis for us women with altitude,

(02:58):
and so it was almost like not aforced friendship to build.
But I guess we're both matureadults and so we find ourselves
in a situation where we're now,you know, called to work
together and that was just awonderful opportunity for us to
just intentionally connect andintentionally build a friendship

(03:21):
out of that.
And so you know, I know youwere wonderful during that time
to just talk about how, you knowwe've known each other for a
long time but we've never reallyconnected.
And I remember you saying therewas sort of reasons behind that
for you and it's just beenwonderful to have this

(03:45):
friendship cultivated.
And I think sometimes it's atiming thing we may want to be
friends with certain people butwe find ourselves not quite
hanging out in the same circle,so it just doesn't organically
happen.
Some people just flat out don'tlike you, so they're not going
to make any effort.
And I've always reallystruggled with that personally,

(04:07):
because I am the kind of personthat wants to be friends with
everyone, but along my journeyover the last 16 or so years,
I've realized that's that's notalways going to happen.
There's some people that justaren't going to like you and we
may, and there's people youdon't like as well, pardon.

Fiona Kane (04:26):
And there's people you don't like as well, pardon.
If there's people you don'tlike, which I'm sure there's at
least some people that you don'tlike well, why is everyone
going to like you?
You know what I mean.
Like, we understand it, that wedon't necessarily like everyone
oh, absolutely, yeah, yeah,then we don't understand it when
everyone doesn't like us,that's right, that's right.

And I think I, probably because of the work
you and I do and I can workwith anyone and everyone I feel
like, well gosh, I've got theskill set to be able to do that.
But this person I do want to befriends with just doesn't want
to be friends with me.
And so, yes, there's the oddperson that I'm like, yeah, yeah

(05:03):
, I don't think I really want tospend much time with them.
Um, but if they had a lean intome, I'm not going to go no,
sorry, don't, don't want to befriends with you, which I've
observed over the years.
Sometimes that is the casebetween people and and it is
okay because, like you said, noteverybody likes me.
I'm that, I may have a disliketo some people as well, and

(05:25):
that's okay.
But I guess the point of ushaving this conversation around
friendship is to never cutsomebody off completely, because
we just never know what's inour future, and I often talk
about and I don't know if youand I have had this conversation
about our reputations.
If you don't like somebody,that is so okay.

(05:45):
Just be really wise in who youshare that information with,
because we uh, what's thatsaying, fiona, we're on that
three percent from separation orsomething.

Fiona Kane (05:59):
Oh, there's seven degrees from separation or is it
six degrees of Kevin Bacon.
That's the Kevin Bacon thing,isn't?

it.
Oh is it.

Fiona Kane (06:08):
Everyone's like six degrees separated from Kevin
Bacon.
That used to be the thing.

And I guess that can get people into
trouble.
If you're having a relativelyconfidential conversation with
somebody about your thoughts onsomebody, you don't ever know
who they know, and then youdon't know what ends up
happening down the track to knowwhether you're like oh gosh, I
hope they never say that I saidthis or that because you've now

(06:34):
become friends with that personor you've become enemies with
that person.
So I think I just went offtrack with that, Fiona.

Fiona Kane (06:43):
No, no, that's all right.
So I think I just went offtrack with that, Fiona.
No, no, that's all right.
Look on the same footing.
It would be be aware of whatyou believe, about what you hear
about people as well, and howmuch that changes your thought
process around them.
Yes, Because sometimes what youhear is true and sometimes it's

(07:04):
not, or sometimes it's true, butit's one of those things where
I try not to look.
I'm human.
This is the whole point of thisconversation.
We're human and we're going totalk about that, but what I try
not to do is hate someone onbehalf of someone else.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Fiona Kane (07:21):
So my thing is, I deal with a human being and
ultimately, my judgment isaround how they treat me.
Yeah, and you know how in myinteractions with them.
Now, I mean, if they sort ofyou know, murdered someone or
something like that, then youknow there might be situations
where I don't care how you'regoing to treat me, I just don't

(07:43):
want anything to do with you but, in general in normal sort of
situations.
I don't like to to just chooseto hate someone on behalf of
someone else or someone else hashate someone or has a problem
with someone, immediately gointo that kind of frame where I
feel the same way.
I do like to judge people on myinteractions with them, not on

(08:05):
hearsay, In saying that it'sreally easy to be.
It's hard not to be swayed byit at all.
Oh, absolutely, yeah, yeah,it's hard for it not to colour
the way you look at someone,when you hear certain things
about someone.

Yeah, and I think yeah, using that word
sway.
I think as mature adults, wewant to be really wise around
that.
Am I causing somebody else tosee someone in a negative way?
And I've been on the receivingend of that.
I've observed that and thenI've noticed that I'm a little

(08:46):
bit cautious around that.
And again, there's so manydifferent examples we can use.
Sometimes it is important thatsomebody warns us from someone,
right, because they've hadcertain experiences.
It's kind of like that wolf insheep, sheep's clothing
experience where you go, oh no,they seem really lovely but we

(09:08):
don't know that they're actuallynot.
There's hidden agendas.
Um, they're very charismaticbecause they're, they want to
use you for something.
And sometimes those honestconversations with people, um,
done in a a mature way I'm goingto keep using that word mature
helps us to just be a little bitmore aware, not necessarily

(09:30):
completely guarded, but justaware of.
Okay, yeah, I'll take that onboard, but I won't let it sway
me completely, because I've hadsituations these are the ones
that I found the absolutehardest People that I thought
were my friends and I'veinvested in them and brought
them into my world and done lotsof things for them, enjoyed

(09:54):
their company and then all of asudden, for whatever reason,
they have literally turned on meand then now they're speaking
behind my back to people who donot know me at all and these
people now have this negativeperception of me, and when those

(10:14):
things are out of my control, Ipersonally really, really
struggle with that.
I've had people lie about mebehind my back.
That one I do find the mostdifficult, because when somebody
buys into a lie, it's like Idon't feel like I can do
anything with that, and in thosemoments I have always just said

(10:34):
to myself you know what thetruth comes out in the end?
The truth comes out in the end.
I still remember a particularsituation where somebody had
said to me I heard that you didthis and said that, and I was
like I never did any of that Inever said any of that.
Yes, you did.
And I just remember going thereis nothing I can do here, and I

(10:57):
remember saying to that personyou know what the truth will
come out in the end.
I think it took about 10 yearsbefore that person came back to
me and apologized and said youwere so right.
That person then went on to lieabout this and that, and so
they're difficult moments to beon the receiving end of

(11:19):
friendships that go sour becausesomebody has introduced a lie,
for whatever reason.

Fiona Kane (11:25):
Yeah, whatever reason that they've got going on
.
And you were right when yousaid just taking a few steps
back, when you did say thatsometimes a person's giving you
a really valid warning.
Sometimes they are, sodefinitely we're not saying
ignore when people say somethingto you, but essentially any new
information that you get, it'sjust always assess it and what

(11:48):
you might do is you might say,all right, I'm not 100% sure
about this, but I'm just goingto park it, put it over there in
the corner and I'm going tojust watch the evolving
situation and then maybe I'lljust be a little bit careful
until I'm a bit more certain.
And sometimes, over time, whatyou find is what you were just

(12:08):
saying there, that over time yousee that person come, like you
see that person, with the samepattern over and over again and
they're talking about everyoneand they say so.
There's people who just nastyand like to go around talking
about everybody and making upthings and whatever, and there's
people who say, look, this hasbeen my experience.

(12:30):
I will just keep an eye out forthis situation.
You know, and and I'vecertainly done that I've I've
contacted people to tell, towarn them about people, because
I think sometimes that is thecase, that it's you should do
that, but I don't do that allthe time, but I just do that in
a handful of situations where Ireally know that someone is well

(12:52):
, is that like wolf in sheep'sclothing, someone who seems
wonderful and you know, becausesometimes there are people who
are really good at they go intorelationships and they love bomb
in a relationship and they, andyou know, love bombing is like
where you, oh, you're sowonderful and you're so
wonderful and, oh, I love beingyour friend and you're the best
and you're so, and and theyaffirm you and everything and

(13:14):
they support you and everythingand that is your best friend,
and then then suddenly they'renot, you know.
So sometimes when you're inthat situation, it can be hard
to see who they truly are.
And I've been in that situationmyself where I've been the one
being love bombed and I'vefallen for it and I'm quite a.

(13:34):
I'm quite how would you say it?
Yeah, well, two things.
So one, I've always been, Ihave always had a really good
intuition and being quiteperceptive.
But secondly also, I would sayI'm quite what's the word for it
?
I'm trying to think of the wordI, I don't trust really

(13:57):
cautious and uh, and so I I'vebeen and I've.
So I was really surprised whenI found myself in this situation
, when I realised I'd been inthis situation, because I always
thought that, oh, I would seethat and I would know that.
But you don't always even whenyou are, you know so, like I'm

(14:18):
quite, I can be quite criticaland quite distrusting in a lot
of situations, and I got sort oflove-bombed by someone in my
life, and that really came backto bite me later on.
So, yeah, friendship's a trickything, and listening to people
is a tricky thing.
At the end of the day, though,I think when you build up using

(14:40):
your intuition, you get betterand better at knowing how to,
how to recognize these thingsand when you can trust what, the
information that someone tellsyou, and when not to.

I think it'd be good to maybe expand on
what you just talked about withthe love bombing concept.
What does that actually looklike?
What was your unfoldingexperience, so that your
listeners can perhaps have a bitmore wisdom in recognizing when
this could be actuallyhappening.

Fiona Kane (15:12):
Yeah, this happens.
It didn't happen to me in aromantic relationship.
This is where it often doeshappen.

So it's worth knowing that.

Fiona Kane (15:21):
But it's like someone comes into your life and
they just shower, like theyshower everything on you all the
good stuff.
So it's like someone comes intoyour life and they just shower,
like they shower everything onyou all the good stuff.
So it's like they come in withfairy dust and they're like oh,
you're so wonderful, you're sogreat, oh, you're so inspiring,
or like whatever.
Whatever version of that worksfor you, depending on the
situation.

(15:41):
So if it was a romantic thing,it would be.
You know, you're so beautifuland you're so gorgeous and and
you know I can't believe thatI've met the love of my life and
and you know, blah, blah, blah,and you're better than all the
other girls, or like whateverthe situation.
So there's obviously variesdepending on the type of
relationship, but essentiallythey love, bomb you, they want
to be your best friend straightaway, they want to be with, with

(16:02):
you all of the time.
They can't be apart from you.
And actually in personalrelationships this often entails
where the guy can have theother way around.
The ones I've heard about arewhere, say, a guy will buy you a
really expensive, say, iphoneor something.
You're like, oh my God, he'sjust given me like a $3,000
phone.
He must love me and it'sbecause he wants to track you

(16:25):
and control you.
It's not because he loves you,you know.
So they'll say, oh, I'll pickyou up, I'll pick you up from
work, oh, I'll pick you up, I'lldrive you there, I'll take it.
And you think, oh, wow, that'sgreat, he's so caring, he cares
about me, he wants to drive meIsn't that great?
And that's obviously buyingsomeone a phone or picking up

(16:47):
someone from work they're notbad things.
However, in some of thesesituations, what's behind it is
a negative thing.
It's when someone suddenly is,and so it happened to me and it
was kind of in a more of a worksituation where this person
loved me and you're so great,you're so wonderful and you're
going to do so great and we'regoing to make this happen, and
blah, blah, blah and uh, and Ireally believed it and it is um,

(17:12):
I think to.
What happens is these peoplelearn what your vulnerabilities
are very quickly.
Yes, yes, and they use themagainst you.
So you know, I was in asituation where I was feeling
really vulnerable.
I was really stepping out of mycomfort zone, doing something
really hard.
So having someone come alongand say I've got you, yes, I've

(17:34):
got this, you're speaking aboutone of my own personal
experiences?
Yes, it feels good and it's like, oh, I want.

(18:02):
Yes, it feels good and it'slike, oh, I want, whether it be
in your personal life, yourprofessional life or however,
wherever this is that it'sreally hard to change it by that
point.
So what I did is I pretended tonot see it, because it was just
too hard and also I just had,like the time, there was a whole
lot of other stuff going in mylife that made it really
challenging.
So I chose to not see what Icould see and pretend it wasn't

(18:28):
there, and so I played that gamewith myself for a long time
until, you know, I had no choiceand I had to deal with it.
But yeah, that was kind of myexperience and by ignoring that
I caused a lot of damage tomyself and to the situation, the
business situation I was in.
So I'd warn people not to dothat, but that's what I did.

(18:51):
And so, even though I'm theperson that's intuitive and I
understand these things and all,this cynical.
I had that happen to me and Iallowed it to happen and, yeah,
it took a long time to dosomething about it, so have you
got a similar experience?

Oh goodness me.
And we could go for way longerif I told you the entire thing.
However, I think at the end ofthese experiences that you're
sharing that you know I've got afew of my own I often conclude
people come into our life andwe've all heard this saying.
And people come into our lifeand we've all heard this saying.
Excuse me, people come into ourlife for a reason, a season or

(19:29):
a lifetime, and when thesefriendships come to an end, it's
like some of them are reallyhard, because sometimes you're
like I thought that was going tobe a forever friendship.
I really did.
You know, we've known eachother for so long or we just hit
it off and we were so there foreach other and then all of a
sudden, like that, they're gone.

(19:52):
And for me, who invests soheavily or, I would say, used to
invest so heavily I'd beheartbroken.
I literally would beheartbroken.
I wouldn't be able to sleep,just like constantly reflecting
on what did I do wrong, Like Iwant to know what I did wrong so

(20:12):
I don't do that again.
But then when I realise I canput it in almost a bucket maybe
they were just in my life for areason.
And when I see it from thatperspective then it's like okay,
what was that reason?
Well, you know, I guess theygot me to step out of my comfort
zone.
They got me to do things Inever would have done without

(20:35):
them.
So it's like I can nowgenuinely say I'm grateful for
them coming into my life forthat reason.
Or maybe I can go no, it's theseason bucket.
They literally came into mylife for that reason.
Or maybe I can go no, it's theseason bucket.
They literally came into mylife for that season of my life.
And these are all the greatthings that we did in that
season that I can now begrateful for.

(20:55):
And what I've learnt out of someof the really, really hard
times where friendships havecome to an end is recognising
and this is really confrontingthat I had a lack of boundaries.
And I didn't see it as a lackof boundaries, I just saw it as
being very inclusive and lovingand caring and helpful and all

(21:20):
these great things.
But I didn't realise I hadn't,up until that point, being burnt
a couple of times, have healthyboundaries.
So when I feel like there's afriendship that just is
blossoming organically, the, thedesire is to just bring them
close, and I've learned not todo that, that that it's better

(21:44):
not to do that, because it'salmost like a bit of a testing
of the friendship.
Can they cope with theseboundaries, Can they respect my
boundaries?
And if they can do that, thenyeah, we can have, you know, a
friendship, we can start afriendship.

Fiona Kane (22:02):
And actually that's a clue to what I was talking
about the people who love bombyou and then later on they take
advantage of friendship.
Yeah, and actually that's a clueto that, what I was talking
about the people who love bombyou and then later on they take
advantage of you.
A classic example of that kindof person is they do not accept
boundaries of any kind.
So if you have someone that youknow and you think, oh, and
you're working hard constantly,you feel like every day you're

(22:23):
having to put the boundary inagain and say, no, I'm not
available, or no, I'm not goingto do that, or no, I can't do
that, or no, whatever it is.
And they nod and smile and goalong with whatever you say.
But you can tell they're kindof going la, la, la, la, la,
yeah, yeah, fingers in theirears, they're not listening to
you, and then five seconds laterthey're ignoring that,

(22:45):
completely ignoring thatboundary.
And so the person that you findthat is just totally ignoring
your boundary, well, they areactually actively ignoring your
boundaries and there's a cluethere.

That's right, and I think some of the
things that I've learnt alongthe way that I really hope this
podcast helps other people toavoid some of the difficult
things that we may have gonethrough up until this point is
their motivations is all aboutthem and what they can get out
of it, not what they can bringto it.

(23:19):
Now it's some of the people thatI think of.
In the past they brought a lotof things to the friendship
right that I was so grateful for, but I didn't realise it was
like it wasn't unconditional.
It got to a point where it'salmost like they have concluded

(23:40):
well, I have given you so much,now we stop and now it is all
about me, me, me, me, me, me,and it's like whoa, whoa, whoa,
hang on, I thought this was amutual thing, I was helping with
this and you were helping withthat, but then it's like this
line gets crossed where it'slike now it is all about them,

(24:02):
and if you don't have healthyboundaries, if you don't comply
to what they want, in thatmoment it can all go really,
really bad, and there's been afew examples for me where it's
gone really, really bad yeah,and, and it's not like and I
suppose it goes without saying,but it's not equal all the time,
as in, obviously we havedifferent needs at different

(24:22):
times.

Fiona Kane (24:22):
So you'll be going through something with a friend
and they're, you know, they'vegot a sick.
I suppose it goes withoutsaying, but it's not equal all
the time, as in, obviously wehave different needs at
different times.
So you'll be going throughsomething with a friend and
they've got a sick child orthey've got something happening,
and of course, in that casetheir needs are really high and
your needs aren't so importantat that time.

Or enough.
You've had a terrible loss inyour family.

Fiona Kane (24:39):
Yeah.

You don't have anything to give out of
your cup.
It's empty.

Fiona Kane (24:43):
You know you're going through the grief of
course that happens, and ofcourse it's not like it's not
perfectly balanced the wholetime, and so it's not about it's
not going to be perfectlybalanced all the time, but it's
more that just like it'sbalanced in a reasonable way
that when they can when they can, yeah, and, and you need
support there, they help you.
and when you can and they needsupport, they help you.

(25:04):
That's right.
And when you can and they needsupport, you help them, you know
.
So it's not like you get outyour you know, because some
people kind of get out thespreadsheet and I don't think
it's like you don't get out yourmeasuring cup and your
spreadsheet, but ultimately itshould feel like you both are
supported.
And if it feels like one personis doing all of the giving and

(25:24):
the other person's doing all thetaking and that's the only way
the relationship works, uh, thenthere's a clue there as well,
and it often are the ones whereit starts with the love bombing
in the beginning.
So they do give in thebeginning, to, to, to get your
trust.
So in the beginning they're,they're all over you like a rash
and they and they quitegenerous, especially these men

(25:45):
who, in these toxicrelationships, they'll be the
guy who brings the flowers andthe chocolates and this and that
.
And again, it's not badbringing flowers and chocolates,
but it can be the one who doesso much in the beginning that
you know he does all that justto get what he wants and then,
once he gets what he wants, he'sdone.

(26:13):
But you're right with what yousaid and I've shared with you,
and I have shared this on thepodcast, and I don't go into a
lot of detail because I want tobe respectful of that friend,
but I had a friendship of 40years end last year and that was
very painful for me and Istruggled with that one quite a
lot and ultimately, withoutgoing into the detail, because I

(26:39):
want to protect this person'ssituation, I don't know.
I think that this person hadwhat they believed to be valid
reasons.
I don't necessarily completelyagree with those reasons and I
think that some of the thinkingaround it is flawed.
Personally, however, I dobelieve that person thinks

(27:00):
they're doing you know, ininverted commas the right thing.
Yeah, and it's sad for me,though, because it is sad when
you know someone for 40 years,and this is someone who was in
my inner circle.

so someone who I was very close to.

Fiona Kane (27:20):
And someone who.
There is something about this.
Why sort of siblings areimportant to me as well?
There's something about thepeople who saw you grow up,
people who saw your struggleswhen you were growing up.
There's something about thosepeople who know you so well,
right so, the person who saw allof the struggles I went through

(27:40):
in my childhood, in my teenyears, and the person who saw
how hard it was for me to youknow, make something of my life,
the person who, the person whowent through my obsession with
Duran Duran and all of my otherobsessions over the years, uh,

(28:00):
and the person who's beenthrough all of your you know all
of the boyfriend stories andall of that kind of you know.
The person who's been throughall that, that person who knows
you deeply and who knows whatkind of human being you are.
When that person starts tellinga different story to themselves
about who you are, what kind ofperson you are, that is really

(28:21):
hurtful and that is really hard,and so I found that way.
It's heartbreaking, it'sliterally heartbreaking.

It is heartbreaking.
You're talking about a level ofintimacy and people often refer
to intimacy.
As you know, within a marriage,um, intimacy is where you share
your heart with somebody, whereyou share your innermost
secrets with somebody.
Like that's intimacy and thattakes time to develop and, like

(28:49):
you said, over 40 years, youwould think that that's a
trusted, safe space.
Yes, and when those friendshipscome to an end, it it literally
changes you as well.
Yeah, like you can't.
Your life's not functioning thesame.
It's almost like a death yeahlike you, you are now going
through the grieving experience.

Fiona Kane (29:09):
It was a grief and there's, it's one thing to, for
sometimes friendships justfizzle out.
Maybe you're just in differentphases, like it's.
It's, like you said, differentphases of life, whatever.
So sometimes it's that andthat's.
I find that less painful,because that's a little bit more
okay.
Yeah, we're in a different placeright now that's fine, yeah,
but when it's like actively, Iwill not be your friend because

(29:30):
you are blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, uh, that is really painful
and that is really really hard.
Or when, like you were sayingbefore, like I have had people
in the past make up storiesabout me completely, absolutely
out of thin air, make up stuffabout me, about my character and
about what sort of person I am,and they are the ones that hit
the hardest.

(29:50):
Because I think the first timethat someone tells a really like
bold lie like that about youand if you believe you are a
person of good character andwho's honest, the first few
times it happens it kind ofreally wipes you, because it
just floors you, because youjust cannot believe it wipes you
because you just it floors you,because you just cannot believe
it.
Over time, though, you do learnthat it happens, these things

(30:16):
happen, and at a certain pointyou have to accept that that
person has their reasons andwhatever's going on for them,
whether or not they're trying toget something out of it,
whether or not they're jealousof you, whether or not they've
got something else going on intheir life completely, and they

(30:38):
can't see the forest for thetrees because they're too caught
up in whatever else is going.
That's the thing too.
We don't always know what isgoing on for these other people
or what's behind it, and there'sat a certain point it's hard to
sing like.
I have this conversation withmy clients all the time, trying
to tell them like to not take itpersonally.

(31:00):
How do you not take itpersonally when it's about you?
But sometimes it's about you,and sometimes it might seem like
it's about you, but it's notreally about you.
It's about the other thingthat's going on for that person.
That's about something biggerthan that.
So at a certain point you needto.
I mean, obviously, look ifyou're, if this is happening to

(31:21):
you over and over and over andover and over again that's right
.
There might be a clue thatyou're not making good choices
about friendships, or maybeyou're not a good friend, right?
So it's not to ever like.
Obviously, it is always worthexamining.
Well, what went on here, whathappened, what was my part in it
?
We do have to look at what ourpart in it was, because we

(31:44):
always have some part in it insome way, whatever that looks
like.

Yeah, you know.
So it's like if you seepatterns, it's just good to see
what, what are?

Fiona Kane (31:49):
we always have some part in it in some way, whatever
that looks like.
So it's like if you seepatterns, it's just good to see
what are the patterns.
Are the patterns I make badchoices about who I trust, or
are the patterns that I'm not areally good friend?
I don't know.
I could be either.
I could be both, who knows?

Yeah, and I think you raise a really good
point, fiona, because some ofthose reasons of why something
might reoccur might not even bebad.
It might not even be thatyou're a bad friend.
It might be, like I was sayingearlier, maybe you're too
trusting too quickly and youkeep doing that and so you're

(32:22):
not reading the friendship orthe individual accurately or
maybe, like me, me, don't havehealthy boundaries in place.
So when I don't have healthyboundaries in place with these
people, it goes where I don'twant it to go.
And so ever since probably thelast experience that we had

(32:43):
where something went really,really, really bad and I
remember we even went and saw acounsellor as a family about it,
worried about a situation andthis person was really direct
and straight with us and saidyou don't have health, you have
not ever cultivated healthyboundaries.

(33:03):
And it was like this big, Idon't know like neon sign where
we finally saw oh, we've playeda big part in this.
Now, if you knew the story, youmight go no, you didn't.
No, you didn't.
It's like no, no, it's whatyou're talking about, fiona.
What are the patterns?
Yes, you know, maybe it is foryou.

(33:23):
Every friendship ends badly.
And, yeah, maybe you aren'tbeing a good friend, or maybe
throughout the seasons you keepattracting that one person and
you're not reading it properly,and then it keeps ending the
same way, and I'd like to thinkafter our last scenario and
really understand the importanceof boundaries.

(33:45):
We have been able to avoid anyfurther experiences like that.

Fiona Kane (33:52):
Yes, yeah, and look, I think that you keep getting
experiences in life till you.
Learn the lesson.

Yes, and so if you do have a repeating
experience, look at what's goingon and I've said this.

Fiona Kane (34:05):
I think I even said it in the last episode, but it's
worth sort of repeating thatsometimes people get confused
about what boundaries are.
But boundaries are notnecessarily because people see
them as being fences, butboundaries are where you decide
what is sacred in your life andyou protect the sacred.
Yeah, and the sacred isgenerally it's your family, your

(34:27):
health, you know you yourself,and time as well.
Your family, your health, youknow you yourself.
And time as well.
Sorry, your time, yes, yes,Definitely your time.

You do your own time.

Fiona Kane (34:36):
Yes, and so what you're doing is you really just
protect those.
So there's a difference betweenprotecting those and putting
walls up.
Sometimes it might require awall, but it's not necessarily
about walls.
What it is about is protectingwhat's sacred to you and
understanding that, andunderstanding what your values
are and what your family valuesare, and what you're doing is,

(34:58):
ultimately, the choices you makeare to protect that.
So that's actually whatboundaries are, as opposed to
just putting walls up.
It's not kind of.
Some people sometimes getconfused with what that is, and
many of us don't, especiallypeople who are people pleaser
types.
So if you're a people pleasertype, then you certainly it's

(35:19):
hard to have boundaries becauseyou want everyone to love you
and so because of that, you'lllet people yes, I'll do that,
yes, I'll do that, yes, yes, yes, yes.
And what we don't?
People with healthy boundarieslearn how to say no, yeah,
absolutely, and no can be a fullsentence.
It's not like no, because I'vegot to make up some reason that

(35:42):
I've got to be able to you know,and I've talked about this
before, but it's quite funny.
I learned that lesson from hey.
So I haven't watched Friends atall, except for when it first
came out.
So I watched it when it first.
So it's been 20 years orsomething, right?
Yeah, I watched the whole thing, never watched it again.
I never felt the need to watchit again, but it was fun at the
time, right?
Yeah, but there was one episodethat stayed with me forever,

(36:06):
yeah, and I can't even rememberthe whole episode, but all I
remember was Joey was movinghouse and he needed people to
help him move house.

Is this the lounge scene?
Oh, no, no, that's when theybought the lounge.

Fiona Kane (36:19):
Yeah, I can't remember exactly what it was
about, but he was moving houseand he was asking for helpers.
Yeah, and so you know,everyone's lined up and he's
asking them all can you help me?
And they're, oh no, I've got towork Like all these kind of
trying to come up with goodreasons why they could get out
of it.
Yeah, and I guess to Phoebe,and she says no, I don't want to
.
Yes, that's right.

She says no .

Fiona Kane (36:41):
I don't want to.
Yeah, and it's still like thatkind of hit me as like all right
, you can say that, yes, I don'tknow it might have been a
comedy, and it might have been.
You know, she was that whatyou'd call.
When you look at thepersonality trait, different
types of personalities, she'swhat you'd call a disagreeable
character.
And that's not a bad thing.
Being disagreeable is not a badthing.

(37:02):
It's not in a negative form.
It just means that you don'tfeel the need to please everyone
, and I was just blown away.
I just thought well, you canjust say no.
You can even say no, I don'twant to.

Yeah, that's right.
That was a revelation.
That's the best of a friendship, isn't it?
No, I don't want to.
We're basically being yourfriend.

Fiona Kane (37:23):
Yeah, so we can actually do that and we can be
honest.
And if you're to have afriendship with someone, you
need to say yes to every singlething, and because when we say
yes to everything for everybodyelse, we essentially are saying
no to ourselves and no to ourfamilies and no to our own needs
.
So if you have a friend thatneeds you to do that, you might
want to question that as well,that if someone requires you to

(37:46):
say no to yourself constantly,that might not be a healthy
friendship.

Yeah, that's right, and I've just
forgotten what I was about tosay there.
It'll come back to me.
Just to add to with friendshipsit's, you know, almost putting
friendship like doing a.
What do we call it when we'relooking through something Like

(38:13):
an audit, pardon, edit, audit.

Fiona Kane (38:15):
Audit.
Yeah, I always talk about lifeaudits and energy audits and
things like that.

Yeah, like it's really important to do a
friendship audit, a family auditaudit, a family audit.
And a coach of mine, chris, heused to talk about this, putting
people into columns.
So who, out of all the peopleyou do life with, when you leave

(38:40):
them, you feel energized fromright.
They've contributed something.
Not they've done something, butit's just their energy, who
they are, what they've said.
You always feel energised fromthese people, you know.
Pop them in a column becausethey're the people that, because
our time is valuable, they'rethe people you want to fill your
life up with.
Yes, not fill your life up withthe other column, which is who

(39:06):
are all the people that drainyou?
Yes, that when you leave them,you're like, oh, thank goodness,
like that was just soexhausting.
And some people you can perhapsyou see them intentionally less.
Sometimes, with this audit too,it's helpful to go.
You know what this personactually isn't good for me or my

(39:29):
family, and so I am actuallygoing to refrain from having
them in our life all together.
Sometimes those people arefamily and you can't get out of
that.
And so, again, it's respectingyep, there's this party that we
all go to every year andrealizing you don't have to stay
with that person in that cornerand let them talk and be

(39:50):
negative or whatever it is forthe whole party.
You can just be polite and havea small amount of time with
them and then walk away and goand hang out with the family
that you really do enjoyspending time with.

Fiona Kane (40:03):
Yes, I call those people energy-sucking vampires
and I sometimes spend a lot oftime with my clients teaching
them how to manage those kindsof people in their life.
And one of the ways they suckyour energy is by eliciting an
emotional response from yousomehow.
And once they get thatemotional response, say they

(40:23):
plug in.
It's a bit like they're walkingaround with their phone cable
ready to charge up, they plug in.
So the emotional response itmight be that person that says,
oh, you've put on weight.
Or oh, I wouldn't have dealtwith like a parenting thing, I
wouldn't have dealt with it thatway.
But oh well, you do your thing.

(40:43):
Or you know, I heard you changedyour job.
What was wrong with the otherone, or whatever?
Like whatever it is, but theperson who knows how to make
that kind of snarky comment, orthey might be talking about
someone else or doing something,but if they're trying to get
you emotionally engaged andthey're trying to do it often in
a negative way there's a cluethere, because once they get you

(41:04):
emotionally engaged and theyjust plug in and they suck life
out of you.
So I teach my clients how torespond to those different
things and how to just not evenengage with it.
There's ways that you can kindof be polite but just not engage
with it.
So you just keep theconversation moving, or you go
oh look, there's a butterfly,have you noticed the weather?
Or you just pretend you didn'thear it.

(41:25):
Whatever you do, but you don'thave to engage, that's also
knowing that you don't alwayshave to engage with everything
that comes that is brought toyour attention.

You don't have to engage with all of it
yeah, yeah, I think, um, itmight be also helpful to
continue on what you just said,and that is giving people some
little tips on how do you managethese sorts of people, because
the people pleasers in the roomwill just sit there and be
polite and just listen andlisten and feel like there's no

(41:52):
way out of that or the peoplewho don't know how to say no,
like giving them a few tips onon what they could perhaps do.
I know I will often because I'mthe people pleaser and I don't
want to have anybody feel jarredor displaced or whatever.

(42:13):
So I like to use the word pauseand I do this with my own
children.
You know they're watchingtelevision and it's time for
dinner.
Instead of saying, right, stop,turn the TV off.
And there's like a jarringexperience for them.
And now they're annoyed andangry and it's just like I'll
come in in, I'll say can I justget you to pause for a moment?
And it's the same whensomebody's like, and you're like

(42:36):
, ah, I don't know when tointerrupt and I don't want to
listen to this for forever, andit's just about being able to
say can I just get you to pausefor a moment?
You know, and it might.
It's been really great chattingto you.
I do have somebody else that Iwant to catch up with, or can we
catch up with this and finishthe conversation later?

(42:57):
And it gives you an exitstrategy.
It's also the same with when yourun into somebody and but
you're on a bit of a time limitand you're like, oh, you want to
say, oh, I have to go, I haveto go, but you just stay there
for longer and now you'regetting later and later.
It's like how do yourespectfully stop that

(43:19):
conversation and again to justbe able to say, can I just pause
you for a second?
I'm on my way to an appointment.
It'd be great, you know, if wecontinue this conversation
another time and you don't haveto finish that conversation,
right, but it's more.
You're giving yourself thatbreak and that space to just get

(43:39):
on and respect your own time.

Fiona Kane (43:42):
Yeah, and the I need to go to the bathroom.
One is always a good one too,especially if you're a fashion
or or something, because youknow, because when you usually,
by the time you come out, youtalk to someone else.

Yes, that's right, you talk to someone else
and it works out really reallywell for you.
I'm going to remember that one.
Next time we're talking, Fiona,and you go oh, just going to go
to the bathroom, Kelly, I'll belike, oh, I've just talked too
much again.

Fiona Kane (44:09):
Yeah, yeah, just talk too much again.
Yeah, yeah, or sometimes itmight be look, I'm expecting an
important phone call.
I just had to go out and checkmy phone, or or I have to make a
phone call.
I just I promised the personI'd ring at this time, whatever,
so you could make up somethinglike that, you could.
Or just like you know, I, likeyou said, I, you know, it's just
politely, like I don't want tobe impolite, but I did promise
fred that I'd go on.

Yeah.

Fiona Kane (44:29):
Because I was going to give Fred advice about his
computer or like whatever it is.
That's right that you make up,but the other thing too is it's
less.
Those people don't want to talkto you as much if you don't buy
in.
Yeah.

That's right.
The negative stories.
It's the way you have theconversation.

Fiona Kane (44:47):
Yeah, so if you kind of, if they kind of try and get
you emotionally entangled andyou're like, oh, what you know?
Or if it's like they try andget you to be defending yourself
oh, you know, really, I'meating all right and I'm not
really fat, or whatever.
The thing is that they'rewhatever little barb that they
do, or you know you're defendingyour parenting or something

(45:08):
like that.
So if they get you defendingthat sort of stuff or engaging
in that, they, they get a lotout of that.
Yeah, so it's also to withthose people.
I like to keep conversationsvery surface level and I will
not delve into stuff I will finda way to move it along yeah, I
move it along to the next thing.
I even move away or I move italong to, but I just essentially

(45:31):
I make myself a very boringperson to talk to.
I'm very boring and strategyyeah, and if they find you
boring, they go looking forsomeone else as well.
So, eventually, when they don'tget what they want from you,
they will go looking for someoneelse.
But initially, what they willdo, though, especially if this
person's used to using you topower themselves up essentially,
when you first sort of startrefusing that person or saying

(45:55):
no to that person or steppingaway, you have to know that
their first strategy is notgoing to be to accept that.
Their first strategy is goingto be to shame you because they
are getting something from thatrelationship.
You're not, but they are, andthey don't want that to change,
because it's like they get.
You know, it's like your kid.

(46:17):
If you do everything for yourchild, if you run around after
your child and pick everythingup and clean everything up, and
they think that there's just awashing fairy and they don't
know where clothes come from,you know, if you do that forever
, they've got no incentive justto learn.
Why are they going to learn?
Well, I've got the magiccleaning fairy I'm not gonna
wear that you know,cool, you know.

(46:38):
So it's the same thing withthese people, right?
If you've got someone service,service, servicing or serving a
thing in your life, you don'twant to disrupt that, and the
hardest thing to do is to go andfind somebody else to do it for
you.
So the easiest thing to do iskeep that person doing it.
And so the first thing thathappens is when you try and say
no to these people and when youtry and not engage, they will.

(47:01):
It'll often get a bit worsebefore it gets better.
Yeah, yeah, because what theywill do is they'll shame you.
Oh, don't worry, I'll findsomeone else to do it.
Yeah, that's right oh, I know Idon't mean that much to you, or
yeah?
I didn't think I was asking toomuch like oh, you know, like
that some like, some commentlike that.
So just know that that'susually what they'll start with
yeah, yeah, and that is at.

(47:24):
That is a strategy yes and thatis a strategy to shame you back
into the behavior that works forthem when you know that they're
, when you actively know thatthey're doing that and they're
going to do that, and I hearthat rather than being shamed by
it.

Now I'm kind of like oh okay, yeah, yeah
, and isn't it interestingsometimes we don't realise that
that's happening and we don'tactually realise that we can be
empowered in that moment to notplay that game.
I think it's more aroundrealising oh, I found myself
engaged in a bit of a game here,right, yes?

(47:58):
I'm not playing and I I have hadmoments where I've been sucked
into a situation and then it'salmost like I've seen the light
and I'm like, oh gosh, I didn'trealize that this is what
they're doing, and it's like Ithen can see it for what it is.
And now they're not getting thesame response at all.
And so I think screeningfriendships is really important

(48:21):
too.
Testing friendships, you know,be comfortable enough in
yourself to say and do whateveryou know you want to do, and if
they don't like it, then withyou just being your raw, natural
self, that's actually a goodthing.
Don't get so desperate to holdon to friendships if they just

(48:41):
can't accept you the way you are, because that's not fun either,
being a friend where you've gotto watch what you wear and what
you do and what you say andyou're walking on eggshells.
You don't ever want to have afriend where you feel like
you're doing that.

Fiona Kane (48:57):
No, no, definitely not.
And you know, if you have to,if you can't be yourself in a
friendship, that's not really,that's not a real friendship.
And I mean there's differentlevels, obviously.
You know this whole like youdon't have to be yourself in
every situation, but with goodfriends you can, you know.

So you know to a certain degree, because
these days people kind of oh, beyourself, it's like well, no,
actually you know, if you're awork and you're a counselor or
you're a bank clerk or whatever,you can't really fully be
yourself there and it's okay.

Fiona Kane (49:28):
So, exactly right, and it's knowing what when to
share and when to, but with good, close friendships you actually
should be able to be all of whoyou are.
And a good friendship to me isone where I can show up in
whatever however I am, and I sawthat a lot like when, um, when
my mother was dying and I waskind of quite a mess for a long
time.
Before and after.
I would just show up and I'dliterally drag myself there and

(49:52):
I'd be crying for half theconversation with the person and
I would look like crap and Iwould, you know whatever, and I
had to have friends that wereokay with.
That's what showed up yeah, and.
I didn't have to go and pretend,and so that's where I very
quickly saw who were my friendsand who were not.
The people who needed me tokind of pretend I was okay and

(50:14):
not talk about anythingdepressing or sad, and the
people who were okay with meshowing up and being where I was
at.

You know you, just you sharing that just
reminded me of another exampleof a friendship that I thought
was going to last a lifetime butin reflection was just a
seasonal friendship and I'd gonethrough something really,
really difficult and somebodythat I wasn't that close with
reached out to me and I remembershe gave me flowers and she

(50:41):
would just ring and just checkin on me and she visited a
couple of times.
And this other friend that Ithought was a really good friend
, I just remember thinking whereis she?
Like, if there's one time thatI thought a friend would be here
, it would be this friend andthis particular person.
I remember they rang and it wasnice to talk to them, but I was

(51:02):
a bit curious as to why it hadbeen so long with what I'd gone
through.
And I remember her saying oh Ijust thought you'd be over it by
now and I was like if I was toshare what it was people would
be like how does somebody justclick their fingers and get over

(51:22):
that?
And that was the first clue forme that this person was not in
my life for what she could give.
It was absolutely all aboutwhat she could take.
And I remember, on reflection,one of the first things she
wanted to know was who I wasfriends with.

(51:42):
Now, that wasn't a clue at thatpoint.
I was just like, oh okay, this,this, this and this.
And then, like I said, onreflection I realised she was
only friends with who I was andwho I was connected with and
what she could potentially getout of that.

Fiona Kane (52:01):
It's like the mean girls at school.
Yeah, I fell for that.
I fell for that You're friendswith the queen bee or anyone in
that surround.
Anyone who I can get access tois like I only want to be
friends and that's what actuallymust be really, really hard.
I always sort of talk about howhard it must be to have
friendships, to make friendshipsand to keep them if you are,

(52:21):
you know, like a taylor swift ofthe world absolutely absolutely
no one's coming into it out offor nothing.
they all want something from you, so they want money or
connections, or they just wantto be even just close to the
fame, because they all have fame, so amazing.
But that would be like you canimagine how hard it is for the
average person with friendships.
That's like on steroids thelevel of difficulty there with

(52:45):
being able to have friendships,isn't it?
And then imagine having afriendship where they're selling
your story to the Daily Mail orsomething, so you share
something with them.
The next thing, you know, it'sthe front of the newspaper, your
story about whatever you know,that's right, and I often will

(53:06):
sadly be.

you know working with people who've
become a widow or they've gonethrough a nasty divorce that was
so unexpected and out of theblue and often when that happens
it's later down the track.
So you've accumulated assets ormaybe you've built a huge empire
of a business and then now it'stime for you to go back into
the dating world.
I always say to these people bereally, really wise on what you

(53:32):
share, because you come withthis huge amount of wealth
behind you.
You do not want people to knowthat straight away at all,
because when you know wealthymen or wealthy women, you don't
know the agenda behind thatperson.
Is it they're only wanting thefriendship because of what you

(53:54):
can give them, or is it they'reonly wanting to build a
relationship with you because ofwhat they can get access to?
You'll really be screeningthose people and being confident
enough to test those people.
Yes, they don't know thatyou've come with all of that and
you play things down and maybeyou go somewhere humble for

(54:15):
dinner or whatever, and ifthat's not impressing them, then
there's there's another littleclue for you.

Fiona Kane (54:22):
Yes, and so it's not easy.
There was a famous video thatwent around was it last year or
something, a TikTok video wherethis woman was like filming a
date, like she went on a datewith this guy and she started
filming and she was sitting inthe car I think I can't remember
it was in the US and he stoppedat some restaurant she thought
was kind of like lower classrestaurant and she was sitting
in the car saying I'm not goingin there, I'm not doing like.

(54:42):
She absolutely cracked it andthis guy was like are you
serious?
She's like no, take me home,I'm not going to go there,
whatever.
And and um.
And eventually he said well,you know, if it's like that, I
think I'll just, I think I justwill take you home, blah, blah,
blah.
She's oh, no, no, no she.
You know, I just it was a good,a good way to see in, probably
a good thing to do.

(55:03):
If you are really really rich.
Don't take them whining anddining in Paris.
Take them to absolutely and seehow they carry on that's right.

Well, sometimes too, fiona, it can be
the opposite, and I remember atragic, tragic story of a single
mum who and this is probablyabout 25 years ago now single
mum who went through a nastydivorce was managed to buy out
her husband and keep the familyhome, and she was really close

(55:32):
to paying that off and shehadn't dated for a long time
time.
And this one night she stayedat home, she was in her pajamas
and her friends are like come onout, come on out.
And she's like no, no, I'm inmy pajamas anyway.
They persuaded her to come outand, um, she went to a
particular pub and she met thisguy that she wasn't interested

(55:53):
in at all and he's asking for anumber and stuff and she just
kind of shut it all down.
She returned to work and gotthe biggest bunch of roses she's
ever seen from this man thatshe did not give her details to
and she's like she's ringing herfriends going.
I can't believe that.
But how does he know where Iwork?
Well, one of the friends toldhim.

(56:14):
And so next minute this guy islavishing upon her right, taking
her to expensive restaurantsand flowers nearly every day,
and then you know they sort ofsomething blossoms and he's
taking her to all theseexpensive resorts and then he's
proposing right, and she's likewhoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,

(56:36):
like this is just all too fast.
But he manages to persuade herand so now they're planning a
wedding and you know, depositshe could put down, but when it
came to paying for the fullwedding he didn't actually have
the money, but she was led tobelieve that he was really,

(56:57):
really wealthy.
And then, just before thewedding, he confessed that the
money that was going to comethrough hadn't come through, and
anyway, but she's like smittenwith him now.
And so they get married andeverything seems lovely and on
their wedding anniversary, 12months later, he hands divorce
papers to her.
It was a scam the entire time.

(57:20):
He was after half of her homeand he got it.
Yeah, he managed to get it.

Fiona Kane (57:28):
There's worse stories than that now, with
these Nigerian people.
Some of these women go to thesecountries to meet the man and
they get murdered.
So it is quite and.

I think it's our responsibility to start
educating the next generation,because I don't know if it's
social media helps us to seejust how dangerous the world
maybe has always been, orwhether it's more dangerous
because people are coming upwith all these horrific ideas,
or whether it's more dangerousbecause people are coming up
with all these horrific ideas.
But it is our job to educatethe younger generation as to be

(58:02):
really, really cautious andcareful and do not be so
insecure.
Sorry, I just cut you off.

Fiona Kane (58:11):
Yeah, no, you can't trust everything people say.
It's as simple as that.
So the kind of advice aboutwith friendships to take it
slowly and if someone is takingit faster than you're
comfortable with, that's.
That's the love bombing thing Iwas talking about right, so
when?
it's going at a speed and a rateand like when someone's like so
in love with you and intenselyin love with you within five

(58:32):
seconds, that kind of thing.
There's a conclusion that whensomeone takes things at a faster
pace than you're comfortablewith, and they love bombing you.
I think there's a lot of cluesin that yeah, yeah, absolutely,
absolutely and um.
Before we finish up, though,there's something else, because
I know we're kind of pushingwith time, uh, and look, this

(58:53):
could go so many directions.
We obviously we need to doanother one because we've got so
much we could talk about.
But uh, what I did want to uhtalk about was just our own
friendship.
I just wanted to sort of talkabout something in regards to
that, because I think it's animportant thing for people to
understand.
So, when we're talking aboutthis is, yeah, obviously, be
wary and be careful and takethings slow, whatever.

(59:15):
But uh, the other thing too iskind of sometimes it's like name
the elephant in the room,because I think at a certain
point you and I had aconversation, because we kind of
just had this, like it wasuncomfortable.
There's a bit of discomfortthere, like we didn't hate on
each other nothing like that, itwas just like a bit
uncomfortable and I think oneday you named it or I named one

(59:36):
of us just pointed out.

I think you might have.
You might have, yeah, yeah, Ithink you were really
transparent and and honest andhumble, and I think both of us
were really humble in thatmoment.

Fiona Kane (59:49):
So I wouldn't have a conversation where I kind of
said these were all thepreconceived ideas I had about
you, yeah, yeah, yeah, and I wasviewing you through this lens.
So all these preconceived ideasI had about you, yeah, yeah,
and I was viewing you throughthis lens through all these
preconceived ideas, this is who.
I thought you were.
Yeah yeah, and there was bits oflike where I just wasn't sure,
yeah, and so I didn't feel likeI could trust you and you had

(01:00:13):
your version of that as well,yeah yeah, and that was a really
beautiful moment really, and Iguess they're the examples of
testing a friendship you know,and it wasn't even like you were
pursuing a friendship.

Kelly-Anne Cummings (01:00:26):
It was, like we said, circumstantial.
We now found ourselves, youknow, kind of working together
in this space, but it was areally good testing moment.
Am I going to be absolutelyoffended and angry at you or go
into a defence mode of myself,or am I going to actually
acknowledge that moment assomebody's being really honest

(01:00:50):
with me here, and so let's builda friendship from this place of
honesty.
This is who you are, this iswho I am, and as a result of
that, for us that's turned intosomething where we can have very
different conversations nowthan we might have in the past,
from a position of trust.
Now you and I aren't living ineach other's pockets.

(01:01:13):
We also understand each otheras to what we agree on, what we
might not agree on, and there'sjust this beautiful mutual
respect.

Fiona Kane (01:01:23):
Yeah, exactly, and being able to, for us been able
to say this is how I viewed youand this is why that's a useful
learning tool as well, becauseit is good to know how other
people view you.
It doesn't mean they're rightand I was very honest about you
know, my glasses are affected byso, as in you know we all have.
We all look at things through acertain lens, absolutely.

(01:01:46):
And that lens relates to ourbackground and you know a whole
bunch of things it might beabout stories you've heard about
someone, whatever it is.

Yeah.

So understanding that person's looking through a
lens and their lens might not beaccurate, yeah, but it's still
useful to hear or have someonereflect back to you what their
experience of you is or how theysee you.

Yeah, yeah, that's right.

You don't have to believe every bit of it or it's
all true, but it is a usefulthing to hear and know, and
sometimes it can be, and I, for.
For us, it was two things, Ithink.
One it was a useful tool for meto acknowledge my bias and
acknowledge the glasses I viewedthings through, yep.
But it's also an experience forus to acknowledge those things

(01:02:32):
about us that we saw in eachother or that we were unsure
about with each other, becausesometimes two things can be true
at the same time.

Yeah, that's right.
That's right.
And I do remember feeling likethere was that lack of trust and
for me I didn't quiteunderstand what that was, but it
wasn't my business tounderstand it.
And I also recognise can't befriends with everybody, like you
know, and and that's, that'sokay.
Um, I just, I am really reallygrateful for what it's become

(01:03:05):
like.
It's really special and I thinkagain, everything happens for a
reason a season, a lifetime andI feel like you know who would
have thought that those 10 yearsof not really knowing each
other and having our biases orwhatever, was actually going to
become purpose-filled, becausewe're going to have a
conversation on a podcast adecade down the track where it's

(01:03:28):
super relevant and hopefullyvery helpful for everybody to
listen to and not to writepeople off.
I think that's you know, wemight have a bad experience with
somebody or they have a badexperience with us.
That doesn't actually meanwe've got to like, ah, stay away
from that person because, likeyou said, you don't know what

(01:03:49):
I'm going through, what I'mnavigating, what I'm thinking,
what lens I'm seeing the worldthrough through this particular
time.
We might pause Just because myTechnical issue.

We're back, but you know, we were actually just
talking about how you know.
Yeah, we all have our lenses,that we see each other through
and don't write people offnecessarily.
Understand that you don'talways know what's going on for
them.
It's not about you, that's rightI suppose one important thing
out of our friendship that I'velearned is you know, sometimes

(01:04:24):
it's worth just naming theelephant in the room too yeah
absolutely there's a discomfortin some, especially, like if
it's someone that you don't careabout, you don't have anything
to do with and you don't want todo it, want to have any.
Well, who cares what doesn'tmatter.
But if it's someone that youhave to work with or that you
want to have a friendship with,then it is actually worth saying
hey look, there's a bit ofdiscomfort here and people can

(01:04:47):
respond differently to that.
Not everyone's going to respondwell to that, so that's okay.
So you just have to be preparedto go with whatever happens
when you ask that question.
But sometimes there can be withwhatever happens when you ask
that question.
But sometimes there can be areal shift when you ask that
question, and the shift could bethat you find out they don't
want anything to do with you andwhatever.
whatever it's like okay well, atleast I know not to spend any
energy there.

(01:05:07):
Yeah yeah.
Or it could be that you learnthat you can create a valuable
friendship based on a lot oftrust, and you know that.
So either could happen.
So you have to understand that.
But sometimes it's worthexploring something a little bit
further if you feel likethere's a bit of resistance or a
bit of discomfort.

And I think , too, people change, like we
all change.
We all mature, we all have ourown experiences.
So now we're forced to seethings through a different
perspective.
And yeah, like we have talkedabout, protect yourself from
certain people, but you don'twrite each other off.
Worse, don't write yourself off.

(01:05:50):
I think sometimes, if people canrecognize that they've not been
the nicest to be around forwhatever purpose, don't't write
yourself off and buy into thelie I'm a crap friend, I'm a
terrible friend.
No one's going to want to befriends with me because then
you'll act out a certain way andthat's not true at all.
We change, we evolve, we getmore mature, we get wiser.

(01:06:11):
We acknowledge our own failingsand where we've let people down
, but we don't have to bedefined by our past.

Yeah, yeah, exactly, it's all learning experience,
isn't it?
It is, it is.
That feels like a nice place toleave it.
Anything to add?
Or you feel like that's, we'rethere.

Yeah, no, I think we're there and I agree.
Maybe we could continue theconversation in another
direction at another time.

Yeah, I think we could go a million different
directions, so I think we shoulddefinitely do that.
Thank you so much, kellyanne.
I've really appreciated havingyou on the podcast.

Thank you.
Thank you for inviting me onhere.
I think you're doing an amazingjob.
Amazing job and I think it'ssome of our most difficult
experiences that we can actuallyuse on these platforms to help
other people.
So it's being grateful forthose hard times we go through,

(01:07:06):
because they've got a purpose tothem ultimately.

Yes, yeah and look.
I will put your contact detailsin the show notes, but if
people are looking for you,where can they find you?

Probably straight to my website for now,
and that'swlba4worklifebalanceacademycomau
, and then they can reach methrough that platform.

Okay, great.
Well, thank you so much forbeing on today.
Thank you, fiona, you'reamazing, and thank you for
everyone at home not?
Please like?
Subscribe, share rate andreview the podcast.
All of those things make adifference and please subscribe.
I hear that 80% of people whowatch and listen to this podcast
they're not subscribers.
Why not?
Well, I think we should dosomething about that.

(01:07:50):
So click on the bells orwhatever it is on on your
whatever app you're listening toor watching this on, so that
you subscribe, and that willhelp other people learn more and
find more, and I like to havereal conversations about things
that matter here, and peoplewill get to learn from that if
they know about the podcast, andthey'll only know about it when
people start talking about itand sharing it.
So, thank you so much andthanks again, kellyanne Pleasure

(01:08:14):
.
See you all next week.
Thank you, bye.

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What Makes a Healthy Friendship? (Signs, Boundaries & Red Flags to Know) | Ep. 117

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}What Makes a Healthy Friendship? (Signs, Boundaries & Red Flags to Know) | Ep. 117