September 3, 2024 • 41 mins
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Punishment-Free Parenting: The Brain-Based Way to Raise Kids Without Raising Your Voice
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Show Notes:
Have you ever lashed out at your child and wondered "Where did that come from? Why am I so triggered?"
Spoiler for this episode, it's your childhood... and the reason we do this is because most of us are totally unaware of this unwanted inheritance.
Jon is joined by Dr. Shefali, the pioneer of conscious parenting, who shares her insights on how our childhood experiences shape our parenting styles. Together, they delve into the concept of the subconscious contract between parent and child, exploring how implicit memories and unresolved issues from our past often resurface in moments of stress.
Dr. Shefali emphasizes the importance of mindfulness and healing in parenting, offering practical advice on how parents can break free from harmful patterns and create a healthier environment for their children.
The conversation touches on spirituality, neuroscience, and the essential role of self-awareness in raising emotionally healthy kids.
Timestamps:
- 0:00 - A Saturday morning meltdown: Jon’s story of losing his cool
- 2:43 - Introduction to Dr. Shefali and the concept of conscious parenting
- 7:57 - The power of implicit memories: How the past shapes our reactions
- 13:53 - The subconscious contract: Understanding toxic parenting dynamics
- 22:19 - Practical steps for conscious parenting and breaking the cycle
Resources Mentioned:
Join Dr. Shefali's Institute Cohort CLOSING 9/9/24
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jon @wholeparent (00:00):
Welcome to the Whole Parent Podcast.
My name is John.
I want to take you to aSaturday morning.
It was about a week ago andmost Saturday mornings in my
house go something like this mytwo older kids they're seven and
four they're running around theliving room chasing each other
with this insane happiness,slash, aggression, slash,
(00:21):
screaming.
It's the mood of 7am at myhouse.
My youngest is still crying.
He got up too early andeverything is overwhelming to
him.
I don't remember if it was hiscereal being too soggy or not
having enough milk.
Honestly, it could have beenanything.
And at this moment I am just onthe edge.
(00:44):
I'm tired, I'm grumpy.
I wish that I got at least one,maybe two more hours of sleep.
And I don't even rememberexactly the moment when I got to
that breaking point.
I think it was just the noise,honestly, the unrelenting,
constant sound of humans.
I know that at one pointsomebody knocked over an entire
(01:06):
cup of water.
Suddenly, I am screaming at thetop of my lungs at my kids calm
down, which I just want to takea moment here.
If you've ever yelled atsomeone to calm down, you know
that this rarely works.
I don't remember seeing theirfaces before that happened, but
I do remember the look on theirfaces immediately after All of
(01:28):
the playfulness, all of the joygone, fear, confusion.
And that is when it hit me thatI wasn't really yelling because
of them.
No, I was yelling because ofsomething inside of me.
There are things in all of ourchildhoods, knots, that we
haven't untangled yet, and thereaction that feels so natural,
(01:50):
so reflexive, that seems tobelong to me or you.
In those moments it belongs tosomeone else entirely my parents
, maybe even my parents' parents.
It was an inheritance that Ididn't really know that I had
gotten and I certainly didn'twant to pass down, but somehow I
was just passing it down again.
(02:11):
Today, on the Whole ParentPodcast, we're asking what does
it mean to become conscious ofthis as a parent, conscious of
your role on the journey ofparenting and especially
conscious of what we bring alongon that journey, both good and
bad Our childhoods, ourperspectives, our worldviews,
our assumptions of what it meansto be a parent in the first
place, and with me to talk aboutthis is probably the best
(02:34):
person in the world to talkabout conscious parenting the
inventor, the creator, thediscoverer.
You might just call her theparent of conscious parenting,
dr Shefali.
Dr. Shefali (02:43):
When I see the younger generation taking on.
You know, things that I startedor, you know, envisioned many,
many years ago.
So I was in my early thirties,20 years ago, when I first kind
of pioneered this whole movementwhich it is now of conscious
parenting.
but no one talked aboutconsciousness in the parent back
(03:07):
then.
No one talked about thatparents need to heal.
Back then I was one of thefirst ones to do that and it's
so refreshing for me now, as anold lady, to see young people
like you take it on.
I mean, I can't believe it.
Jon @wholeparent (03:21):
Just talk a little bit about that, because I
think a lot of people have amisunderstanding of what
conscious parenting is.
Obviously, you're the creator,you're the trailblazer.
You get to define these termsif you want to For those
unfamiliar.
Why is this such a radicalshift from traditional parenting
to parent more consciously?
Dr. Shefali (03:37):
And it is a very revolutionary, radical paradigm
shift that I'm so proud that Icould be the spokesperson for.
And just to back up a littlebit, when the book came out in
2010, the radical book calledthe Conscious Parent.
Back then, literally, we didn'thave Instagram, we didn't have
(03:58):
mailing lists, so it was throughthe force of the word.
Until I began writing aboutthis, most of us were following
the traditional parentingparadigm, which had in its
undertones the message that thechild needed to be fixed,
discipline was to be given tothe child and that the parent
(04:18):
knows best, and it was a veryrigid, traditional, hierarchical
model.
And when I came onto the scenewith my awakening that the ego,
this false self of the parentwas actually creating a great
disconnection because of theparent's unhealed self and I
(04:39):
discovered that, through mymeditation practice, through my
spiritual practice, through mydeep inner psychological healing
as spiritual practice, throughmy deep inner psychological
healing as a mother, but also asa clinical psychologist taking
other parents on this journey,that I just literally, in an
epiphany, put it all togetherand wrote this book called the
Conscious Parent, which has nowrevolutionized how we do
(05:01):
parenting.
Even if people haven't heardabout me per se, people like you
and all the next generation areheavily influenced by this work
right.
So it is a radical shift awayfrom being child-centered,
meaning child-focused, fixingthe child to the parent
beginning to do that inner workto heal themselves.
(05:21):
And I really go strong and heavyand brutally against the
parental ego because it is theparent's unhealed self and I
promise you to this day, mydaughter's 21.
It is my unhealed self thatruins the moment and ruins her
self-esteem.
It's not the child, it is theparent.
(05:42):
And I do it in a gentle way, ina compassionate way, because I
show parents that if you healyourself because of your child,
you're actually giving yourselfthe biggest gift.
so my gift is to the parents andmy latest book, now number
seven, is called the parentingmap and it's out there and it's
a step-by-step solution to howto raise the most empowered
(06:03):
child but to raise the parentright.
Jon @wholeparent (06:06):
Well, and that's and I think that that's
such an important mindset shiftto just say like we're moving
from the concept that the childneeds to be controlled, that the
child, that all of the problemswithin parenting come from the
child, and we're flipping thaton its head and we're actually
saying no, what?
The fundamental issue here isthe childhood wounds of the
parent, often right Like theparent is then enacting their
(06:28):
own childhood wounds back ontotheir own kids.
And I love what you say in thebook, at least in I think you
talk about this in multiplebooks.
I've read a couple of yourbooks but sometimes they blend
together where you're talkingabout the mirror and that's this
opportunity with your kids toactually reconsider your own
paradigms.
And when you talk about it froma spiritual perspective, it's
(06:48):
really interesting to me.
I think we come at things fromdifferent people, come to
different the same, the samelocation from different avenues.
And I look at all this buddingscience into how we go through
these massive neural pruningsand stuff like that when we
become parents and it's like, ohmy God Dr Shefali was saying
this from a spiritualperspective what we've now
observed from an fMRIperspective, that my gosh, like
(07:11):
this is actually physicalchanges happening in the brain.
Dr. Shefali (07:15):
So you're right that this mirroring and our
mirror neurons are alwayscolliding and feeding off each
other, especially in theparenting process.
So we don't really know forsure what is our stuff and what
is the child's stuff.
That's why what I teach interms of mindfulness and raising
(07:37):
your consciousness is soimportant, because our
children's mirror neurons arefeeding off us all the time.
So until the parent becomesconscious, mindful, present,
attuned, they will be projectingstuff onto their children and
thinking that the child issending those signals out.
Jon @wholeparent (07:57):
Okay, wait, hang on.
I'm going to interrupt us for amoment because I think that
there's some neuroscience herethat can help us understand
what's going on, and it has todo with how memory works, or
maybe more accurately, how amemory doesn't work.
We often think of memory askind of explicit details, clear,
vivid recollections, like thefirst day of school, first kiss,
(08:17):
that embarrassing moment inmiddle school For me it was when
my pants got pulled down andthose aren't always accurate.
In fact they're rarely accurate.
But that's not what we'retalking about today.
We're talking about the otherkind of memories that our brain
stores.
They're called implicitmemories.
These are subconsciousemotional imprints from our past
, particularly from childhood.
They're not memories that weconsciously recall, but yet they
(08:40):
shape how we feel and we reactin the present moment.
Implicit memories are powerfulbecause they don't just sit
quietly in our minds.
They form these sort ofundercurrents of our emotional
responses.
They're memories, experiences,sensations and emotions that get
encoded in our brains whenwe're young, often when we're
not even aware that we were evenforming a memory and then they
(09:01):
become sort of triggers for us.
Think of it like an emotionalresidue that's left behind from
experiences and then they becomesort of triggers for us.
Think of it like an emotionalresidue that's left behind from
experiences like fear, shame orpositive things like love,
safety.
They're raw, they're visceral,they're deeply ingrained,
they're buried in our limbicsystem, not in our conscious
memory.
And so when we get triggered,like I did in that moment with
(09:23):
my kids a couple of Saturdaysago, it's like these old, hidden
memories can actually take overour brain, they can hijack our
brains.
And this is because, as onepsychologist, dr Dan Nicholas,
says, there is no time in themind, and so the brain doesn't
distinguish between our past andpresent threats to our survival
.
Very well, our survival verywell.
(09:48):
When our kids do something thatwe did and were punished for or
shamed for, whether that's alaugh that's just too loud or an
unexpected mess, it doesn'tjust activate the minor
irritation of our adult minds,it actually activates our deep
inner child.
And so understanding this iscrucial, because it shows us
that these intense emotionalreactions that we sometimes have
as parents, they aren't justbad habits or character flaws.
(10:10):
They're implicit memories thatare trying to protect us in ways
that no longer serve us.
Remember, the brain is wired toprotect us, and that includes
sometimes protecting us when wedon't need protecting.
This is why becoming aware, orbecoming conscious, as Dr
Shefali puts it, is so essential.
It's about recognizing thoseold patterns, the implicit
(10:31):
memories, the relics of our pastthat don't need to control us
anymore.
But I'll shut up and let DrShefali talk.
Here's the metaphor she uses todescribe this.
Dr. Shefali (10:40):
So just picture that the child, a little puppy,
a child, a plant, all these verynew saplings have come into
your care.
They have an essence that iswaiting to blossom, but it takes
time, so, till it blossoms onits own, they are de novo, they
are kind of ready to absorb thewater, the sunshine that it
(11:03):
needs to receive.
Now the parent is the water,the sunshine that it needs to
receive.
Now the parent is the water andthe sunshine.
If the parent is not healed, ifthe parent has muddy water, if
the parent's sunshine is blocked, if the parent is not in fresh
air, if the parent which, let metell you, all of us are not, we
haven't done the work.
We're in our early 30s.
For the most part, we are raw,wounded, bruised from our 20s.
(11:26):
We don't know what's hit us, wedon't know what this thing is
called the child.
The child is looking at you andwanting to say to you hey, see
(11:48):
me for who I am, help me developinto my apple tree or my pear
tree, or the tree that I'msupposed to become from my own
essence.
But we, because we're socontaminated, we're like forget
your apples and forget yourpears.
I think you're a rosebush, soI'm going to treat you like a
rosebush, but the pear tree issaying, no, I'm a pear tree.
(12:08):
So now the child is looking tobe mirrored for its essence, but
the parent, because it wasnever followed and understood
for its essence, is looking forthe child to complete it.
So the child is like, hey, Iwant to be me no-transcript.
Jon @wholeparent (12:46):
I mean, I think we could have an entire
conversation about culture here,where different cultures enact
this differently.
But every culture enacts someform of hey.
It's not just wisdom beingpassed down, it's not just hey.
I've seen some things and Ithink parents can be amazing
mentors and I know that youbelieve that too but they have
to be mentors that understandthe natural essence of their
(13:09):
children.
They cannot be mentors that arelooking for an intended result,
and so frequently what I'mexperiencing in my own parenting
journey are all of thesemoments when I feel the most
triggered are the moments whenwhat my child is doing is not
fulfilling some unnamedexpectation, and I think we
think of extreme examples.
You know, you have, like, animmigrant parent or something
(13:30):
who, like, didn't get to be thething that they wanted to be,
and we, we kind of hyperbolizein some ways when in reality
often it's just like my childdoes not like doing the thing
that I like to do and thatbothers me deeply For some
reason that's so offensive to me, or my child doesn't like the
political party or the religioustradition that I'm a part of
(13:50):
and that's wounding to us, andwe get triggered.
Dr. Shefali (13:53):
So what do we do when we're getting triggered we
cannot see our children asseparate is because we ourselves
are not yet differentiated,whole, autonomous, abundant
(14:15):
people.
We are tethered to the approvalof our parents, our culture.
We are so infantilized throughour own lack of development that
we are so emotionally, you know, enslaved to the opinions of
others.
Now, because we live enslaved,licking everyone wanting their
opinion, wanting theirvalidation, wanting their praise
, of course, then we transferthat enmeshment and codependency
(14:38):
onto our children and now go,now, I want you to be someone
who can, I feel like I canapprove myself from the others
with.
So I use my child to get thatapproval.
I use my child to get thatvalidation, you see.
So it's an extension of myhunger.
So, of course, now if my childshows up with different ideas,
(14:59):
different moods, I am verytriggered, because my intention
to have this child is not thatthe child grows up to be their
own person.
I am barely my own person myself.
I am using my child to get myown crumbs of validation and
approval from society, myparents and culture.
Therefore, I cannot bear for mychild to be different, because
(15:20):
my survival, my emotionalsurvival, depends on this child,
and this is why parenting is sotoxic when we are not awakened.
That's why, when the childdrops a glass of milk or says F
you, god forbid, we will beatthem up, we will lock them up
and we will justify it, becauseit is anathema to us that the
(15:42):
child dares to be their ownspirit.
You see, our subconsciouscontract with our child is
listen, child, I'm going to giveyou money and I'm going to
raise you, but please, you aregoing to give me a sense of self
.
So please go to the, please goto the right schools, because I
need you to give me the approvalthat I've never gotten on my
(16:03):
own.
Jon @wholeparent (16:05):
Hold on a sec.
I want to take one more pausehere and unpack this idea of the
subconscious contract between aparent and a child, because
it's a game changer.
It is how I really started tounderstand my own stuff and I
think it can be really helpfulto you.
Understanding the roots oftoxic parenting dynamics really
come down to understanding thiscontract.
What Dr Shvali is getting athere is this unspoken agreement
(16:28):
that we have that we oftenimpose upon our kids, something
that they never signed up for.
And it's this psychologicaldeal that says, like I'll
provide for you, I'll love you,I'll support you, but in return
you're going to have to make mefeel like I'm enough, like I've
done okay in the eyes of myparents or whoever.
I'm looking for validation frommy culture, my society,
(16:49):
whatever.
And this is where the problemstarts.
Most of us aren't even awarethat the contract exists.
This is why consciousness orawareness is what Dr Shefali is
talking about.
That's the whole point here,right?
This is why we call itconscious parenting.
We have to wake up one day anddecide I'm not going to use my
kid to feel better about myselfand my childhood wounds because
(17:11):
the deep-seated need forapproval approval that we often
didn't get growing up or that weconstantly need to earn because
we were told that that's allwe're valued for.
We have to get that fromourselves.
It has to come from inside ofus.
It can't come from our kids.
And so, without realizing it,we often start projecting these
needs onto our kids and until webecome conscious of the reality
(17:32):
, it's just gonna be ourexistence right, it's just gonna
be manifesting.
We're not gonna be able to bethe parent that we want to be to
our kid and, ultimately, thatour kid needs us to be in order
for them to embody their trueand authentic self.
And actually, dr Shefali has aperfect quote about this.
It's something I put into myown book and it's something that
(17:53):
I asked her about.
Quote I know that you alreadyknow the quote before I read it,
but I'm going to read it forthe audience In the Conscious
Parent.
It's got to be the most pulledout quote of all of the quotes,
but it's the one that I includein my book and so I wanted to
read it.
I just wanted to get your takeof.
You're almost 15 years later now, probably 15 years since you
wrote this, because it takes solong for a book to come out you
(18:14):
wrote when you're a parent, it'scrucial to realize that you're
not raising a mini me, but aspirit throbbing with its own
signature.
For this reason, it's importantto separate who you are from
who each of your children is.
Children aren't ours to possessor own in any way.
When we know the depths of oursoul, we tailor our raising of
them to their needs rather thanmolding them to fit our needs.
(18:36):
Can you?
In 15 years, is this still true?
How would you respond?
Are you doubling down?
Are you saying I wish thatwasn't in the book because I
would have said it a differentway?
Give me your, take 15 years out.
Dr. Shefali (18:50):
I mean, I will tell you that the reason I can so
you know, loudly and daringly,be a voice of this message is
because almost everything I saidin 2010, which I really began
thinking in 2007, is 1000%eloquently, spot on.
There's nothing I've changed,because the wisdom of this
(19:13):
message is so true that I neverhave to think about it.
It's just part of my being,it's part of your being and my
being, because it rings so true.
It's not gimmicky, it's notstrategy, it's not a quote that
I pull out, and I don't havethese pithy maxims.
This is wisdom that is for theages.
(19:35):
So look at that quote, right?
It says until we know thedepths of our own soul, we will
not be able to attune to who ourchildren are.
What this means is, if we don'tknow who we are, if we haven't
discovered the joy of beingalive within our own authentic
freedom, we will not be able togive that authentic freedom to
anyone else.
(19:56):
The reason we cage other peopleis because we live in cages.
The reason we are racist withother people is because we live
separated from our own heart,our awakened, diamond heart.
People who live in theirdiamond, awakened heart allow
others to be seen for who it is.
They are and people willgravitate toward those people
(20:17):
and they will be beacons ofwisdom and a message.
So if people listening rightnow go, damn, this is like
preaching and I need this in mylife.
Well, now come and learn anddeclare yourself a student and a
seeker.
You know, I've been doing thisfor 20 years now and I've honed
(20:38):
the message and this is what Iteach.
Jon @wholeparent (20:40):
I know that you have advice for parents.
How do we get through this?
Dr. Shefali (20:43):
Okay.
So first, parents listening tothis have to feel right now.
I'm showing you right now howto begin to awaken a
consciousness.
So, as you're listening to this, tap into your body right now.
Do you feel a resonance?
Do you feel like, oh my God,they are talking about something
that I know in my soul but I'venever articulated?
(21:06):
First, we begin to feel thingsin an attuned way, connected way
, present way, here and now.
Now we have to then realize ohmy God, I have to learn this
method that she's talking aboutand I have to apply myself as a
seeker, as a student.
Right, you have to first sendout to the universe I am ready
(21:27):
to learn what she's talkingabout.
Right, we have to send out thatdeclaration.
These emotional, intentionalshifts are the first place.
Without this, it'll just begive me a strategy, dr Shefali,
and then you're going to forgetabout it.
The people who follow me, whocome to my podcast, who listen
to my podcast every single week,who take my courses, join my
(21:49):
institute where I teach a method.
They are seekers of thismessage.
So, declaration and intention.
Okay, number two once you beginto take these courses, learn
this method, then what willhappen?
John is in the moment, whenthey're triggered the next time
and they are about to react,they are going to be trained by
(22:11):
me to know whoa, whoa, whoa,whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,
whoa, like red flag, red flag,red flag, red flag.
This is what she was talkingabout.
And then I teach how to regulateyourself in the moment by
saying things like I'm safe, mychild is not an enemy, my child
is just being a child, my childis of their own essence.
I am feeling robbed, abducted,stolen, reacted to.
(22:38):
I'm feeling like I'm in abattle because of the fact that
this is reminding me of a memoryfrom my childhood.
I'm safe, I'm not five yearsold.
And then I teach people how toground themselves in their
bodies.
You know, this is what myinstitute teaches people how to
do.
It's a parent school and wepractice how to ground, how to
create emotional safety, andthen, when you're resourced,
then I teach how to connect withyour children.
(23:00):
So even in my book, theParenting Map if you can't spend
any money, but $15, myParenting Map book.
Listen to it on audio.
I give you 20 steps and I giveyou exercises.
Listen to it on audio.
I give you 20 steps and I giveyou exercises.
So what I'm basically saying isit's in the present, it's in
the moment.
You have to learn to calmlyregulate yourself.
You have to see your child as achild, not your enemy.
(23:21):
You have to understand thatyour own inner child is on fire.
Your ego is coming to protectthe inner child and once you
learn this terminology and thisway of being, you can see it and
then you begin.
I have t-shirts that say I'm aninner child, I'm an inner child
.
I'm an ego.
I wear my t-shirts so I canremember I'm still unhealed.
(23:44):
I begin to have compassion formyself and I begin to do the
reparenting work.
I mean, I began talking aboutreparenting way before the term
even began being popular andthat's what we need to do on the
daily, in a seeking way, likeI'm a seeker of my own healing.
I'm not here to fix my child orcreate an Ivy League graduate.
(24:06):
I'm here to use thisopportunity to heal that has
been left unhealed forgenerations.
Jon @wholeparent (24:13):
Yeah, and I think that this is.
I just feel like you're, everyonce in a while, have somebody
on the podcast who, who reallychallenges the way that I think
about parenting and, and I'll behonest, this is not that
conversation, because everythingthat you're saying is just so,
it just fits, it fits so cleanly.
And as much as we talk aboutthe brain hacks and the
(24:33):
neuroscience and how we can getout of our limbic system in the
moment, and we have all thesefancy terms for it and all of
these ways of thinking about it,ultimately it comes down to
realizing that in the momentwhen you're with your kid, the
reason that we default topunishment shame, blame,
aggression, shame, any of thosethings isolation, disrespect is
(24:57):
because ultimately we feel inthat moment unsafe and we feel
in that moment out of control,and it's not because our child
has made us feel that way.
It is because we feel that wayand until we deal with us, we
can't fix that Correct.
Dr. Shefali (25:15):
We can't do anything with that.
Correct.
And imagine that traditionalparenting model never told
parents that it's you.
We can't do anything with that.
So imagine, by beating yourchild, punishing your child,
(25:37):
shaming your child, you arecommunicating to that
two-year-old, thatseven-year-old that they are bad
, they are the cause of myoutrage.
The parent took noresponsibility and it's only
work like mine and yours nowthat puts the spotlight.
I wrote in my first book, theConscious Parent.
It's time for us to put thespotlight on the parent.
(25:59):
Enough of focusing on the child.
It looks like we're so caring,but it's not caring at all.
It is our control of anotherspirit and their essence and
taking it hostage because we'venot done our work.
Now listen, I have greatcompassion for the parent
because the parent never had itfrom their parent.
So this work is about theevolution of the parent, because
(26:23):
I believe it is the future ofthe planet.
Somebody once asked me what doyou believe is the future of the
planet?
And I said the person who holdsthe key is the parent.
It is in the parent's evolution,that the future generations
will be healed, and that's whatmy mission is in this world.
I'm just focused on it, notbecause I love children, but
because I know the toxicity andthe dysfunction that we pass
(26:46):
down and what has destroyed theplanet.
What has destroyed, you'll say,corporate greed.
Why is the corporate leadergreedy?
Because the corporate leader isa little boy, for the most part
, who is screaming for see me,see me, see me.
Jon @wholeparent (27:03):
You're preaching.
Dr. Shefali (27:04):
Because my 16 Bentleys is not enough.
I need to own the island.
I need to own America.
Jon @wholeparent (27:11):
Yeah, no, you're preaching.
I mean, you're preaching to thechoir.
You know I occasionally willget approached by politicians
who are like, can you endorse soand so?
And oftentimes I'll reject anysort of like.
I'm not going to get involved,and the reason why I do is I go,
look, if you want to changelike I understand that you want
to get elected or you want thisperson to get elected but
ultimately, if you want tochange the next generation, you
(27:32):
have to realize that the reasonthat the dysfunction exists is
because how people were treatedwhen they were kids, that they
were treated in a certain way.
And then you're asking adultsto change and I'm not saying
that adults can't change.
Obviously, both your work andmy work is about adults changing
.
But adults actually have towant to change, like kids, like
the way that we parent.
If we can change a generationof even 10% of the parents, 20%
(27:56):
of the parents, the nextgeneration is going to be so
much more equipped and you canalready see this with your own
daughter, right, like how muchmore emotionally regulated.
Again, this is something that Italked about with other people
who've been doing this work fora long time.
They're like I just didn't havethe problems that other people
had with their teenager.
Why?
Because at two, at three, atfour, I did my own work.
(28:16):
I got in my own body, realizedwhat I was doing was problematic
.
I shifted the paradigm, Ibecame conscious and, as a
result, my 16-year-old wasn'tseeking for autonomy like a
12-year-old or like atwo-year-old, and I didn't have
to worry about a lot of theproblems.
And so this is parenting forthe long term, not just for the
long term of your child, notjust for the long term of your
(28:38):
family or the generations tocome, but the long term of your
child, not just for the longterm of your family or the
generations to come but the longterm of the world, and it is
world changing stuff.
Dr. Shefali (28:46):
If people want to ever do what I do in the world,
they can learn from me and myinstitute, or they can visit my
website and take a course orfollow my podcast, where I coach
people in real time.
So what I'm basically saying isit's not enough to just want to
be a good parent.
You have to cultivate it, andthere is no parent school till.
I created my institute.
So you have to learn the skills, dedicate your life to it.
(29:10):
You know people will spendmoney on you know, vacation to
Europe for four.
People will, you know, buy big,fancy cars, sports cars, but
they won't dedicate the effortand the intention to become the
most conscious person and parent.
Well, this is this is why youand I do this work, because we
are inviting people to come andlearn these skills because they
(29:31):
never did learn.
We've not learned any of thisin college or school.
Jon @wholeparent (29:36):
Yeah, I think that's such a compelling and
important point, just first off,that we need to start
prioritizing these things.
Tell us more.
Yeah, I want to hear more.
You've kind of alluded to it acouple times.
Obviously, we can link belowthe parenting map you also
mentioned you have a cohortstarting.
Can you tell us more about thatso parents know how they can
get involved?
Dr. Shefali (29:56):
Okay.
So before I talk about myinstitute, I do have a free
podcast where I coach parents inmy method every single week.
So parents are coming to mewith their issues and I help
them reframe and understand theconscious parenting approach.
The podcast is called Parentingand you with me, dr Shefali, so
please tune into that everyTuesday.
(30:16):
That's free for you.
And then I have a parent schooland a life school.
It's called the ConsciousParenting and Life Coaching
Program.
It's in my institute.
I certify people to do this workwith others.
I teach them my method.
They see me coaching and Iteach them how I coach, what I'm
thinking about.
It's five months, it's online.
It's twice a year.
(30:37):
The next cohort starts in aweek or two, but they can join
the next one.
But they should come andexplore it and see it for
themselves, because it is theirredemption for their own
childhood that was robbed.
It's their gift to give it back.
I teach you how to reparentyourself and then I teach you
how to teach others to do it forthemselves, and it's two weeks
(30:59):
money back guarantee.
You can just check it out.
But it is the parent schoolthat we never had.
Jon @wholeparent (31:03):
Yeah, I love that and I would encourage
parents who even if, you know, Idon't know all the details
about it, I'm just learningabout it too but I will say that
in my own journey to educatingand when I wrote the book like,
this sounds very I think thatyou'll understand this.
This may sound weird to peoplewho are listening to this after
the fact, but even when I read,reread my own book, I realized
(31:27):
that it's almost an out of bodyexperience.
To go actually learning how toteach people is how I became the
best parent that I could be,and that it actually if I, if I
stopped at just learning how tobecome the best parent I could
be.
There's so much that, like thenI'm always playing, I'm still
playing whack-a-mole.
It's actually through coachingother people and through walking
(31:48):
with other people and friendsand really building that village
cohort to help people to parentmore effectively consciously,
you know, with their child inmind, with their child's
development in mind, which Ithink is part of this too, and
we can talk about that anothertime.
But understanding all of thesethings at once, then becoming
the teacher, that's often whenyou become the best student, and
(32:09):
so and isn't coaching.
Dr. Shefali (32:11):
I know that that's given me purpose.
Absolutely.
You and I get so fired up andyou know, you and I know, after
we've had a session with aparent or a human being any
human being and we've helpedthem, doesn't that feel damn
good.
Jon @wholeparent (32:25):
Literally, this is the most fulfillment I
get out of my like my entirewhole parent thing is sitting
with parents.
Usually it's like five to 10parents at a time and going,
okay, what's going on this week?
And parents coming to me andgoing you know, yeah, I got this
and I got this and I got thisand, and just simplifying and
being the outside observer whocan go, you know what A lot of
(32:45):
this comes back to just this onething that happened that you,
you're not seeing, and thenparents are like God, I didn't
know.
And it's such a rewardingexperience.
Dr. Shefali (32:55):
It's and it's you know, know.
Parents don't know what theydon't know.
People like us are laying thepath, but people have to invest
in it and see this as crucialfor not only their children, but
for themselves and I think thatthat's the real plug here,
right, like if we're going toend this on it on a really
powerful note.
Jon @wholeparent (33:12):
It's that this is not about raising like this
is not something that you shoulddo if you feel ashamed that
you're not the perfect parent.
This is something that ispaying dividends and investment
for you Becoming a consciousparent.
However, you do that, whetherthat's through the cohort,
whether that's through you'regoing on and taking one of your
courses on your website, goinglistening to the podcast, which
(33:33):
is obviously free, getting aparenting map, getting the
original conscious parent, likeany of those things.
This is actually paying intoyou as a person, because in the
internal validation piece, I'lltell you from personal
experience the internalvalidation piece this has made
my life better.
It has not made my parentinglike my parenting is better
because my life is better.
Dr. Shefali (33:52):
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
And learning you know what Iteach in terms of spirituality
and wisdom is makes youbulletproof, and people don't
realize there is a way to thinkand live that can make you
bulletproof.
Yes, it can still be hard, butyou're kind, and so that's why,
if people feel resonant with mywords and my energy, that's what
(34:16):
they should follow.
Start following the breadcrumbs.
If you feel like John istalking to your soul, follow the
breadcrumbs.
People have lost touch withfollowing what shows up in their
lives.
If you're listening to this, itmeans it's for you.
Now, what you do with it, likeJohn said, to what extent, is up
to you, but don't not dosomething.
Follow the breadcrumbs of yourlife.
They will lead you to where youneed to go.
Jon @wholeparent (34:41):
And this has been so powerful for me too,
because I often forget that somuch of this is a spiritual
process, that I spend so muchtime talking about neuroscience
and again, we could just go intothat forever and mirror neurons
and this we kind of alluded toit, Neural pruning we could talk
about that.
Ultimately, this is a spiritualprocess too, that that just
knowing everything about yourkid's brain, just knowing
everything about your own brain,just knowing everything, all
(35:02):
the tricks and tips and tactics,At some point you're a
spiritual being encounteringanother spiritual being.
If you don't get that stuff onlock and we know from a
neuroscience perspective,nerding out, that it actually
does change your brain too, thatfocusing on that stuff
physically changes your brainanatomy.
So thank you for all of yourwork, not just today on the
(35:23):
podcast, but all throughout.
Give us a final word.
Dr. Shefali (35:26):
Yeah, I just want to say that, and that's why
having one umbrella place whereyou learn all this, so my parent
school, my university, myinstitute is I talk about the
brain, I talk about trauma, Italk about body approaches, I
talk about ADHD, autism, all thediagnosis you can think of, and
I teach meditation andintegrate the Eastern
(35:48):
spirituality and I talk aboutthe inner child and how to heal
it.
I mean, that's why it's fivemonths, it's very intense, it's
130 hours.
It's like a master's intense,immersive course and it changes
your life because once you'reequipped with the language and
the wisdom, you have the eastand the west.
Now you have a holisticframework.
(36:08):
But, john, you are fantasticand I just want to tell everyone
you know join his mastermind,join his workshop.
Each one of us speaks adifferent language and you can
begin to follow your breadcrumbs, but don't just sit there.
Take the next step and take anaction.
Jon @wholeparent (36:25):
Yeah, no, it's .
Thank you for saying that.
I really appreciate that.
That's.
That's so humbling to hear andyou know I'll be sending you.
You're on my list.
I just didn't get your addressyet.
Don't tell it on the on thepodcast, but I'll be sending you
an advanced copy of the book sothat you can check it out and
especially read that chapterthat that really was so
influenced by your work.
Yeah, follow me.
Obviously follow Dr Shefali,but don't just follow one of us.
(36:48):
You're not going to geteverything you need from me.
You might get everything youneed from her, but if it's
easier to hear from me, I'm I'mhappy to be that voice.
And, dr Shivali, if you everneed a guest lecture to come
talk to millennials about kids'brains, you know where to find
me.
Dr. Shefali (37:01):
I love it, john.
We will be in touch forever.
Thank you so much, and everyone, for listening.
Jon @wholeparent (37:06):
Yes, thank you .
If you have enjoyed thisepisode of the Whole Parent
Podcast, please don't forget tosupport us.
Go onto whatever podcastplatform you're listening on
right now and rate this showfive stars.
Please write a review.
I read every single review thatwe get and it's your reviews
and your ratings that allow meto get amazing guests like Dr
Shivali.
If you have found thisconversation to be helpful to
(37:28):
your parenting journeyinsightful, inspiring, whatever
share it with your friends,people who could benefit from
this new, fresh perspective onconscious parenting.
You can also follow me onInstagram, facebook, tiktok,
wherever to get updated onfuture things that we're doing
on the Whole Parent Podcast.
I'm again at Whole Parent andParenting Tips.
(37:49):
That's where I do most of that.
This is my long form content.
That's my short form.
Anyway, thank you for being apart of this journey.
Remember it starts with us.
We continue to learn, wecontinue to grow.
Parent with purpose, withconsciousness.
We'll see you next time on theWhole Parent Podcast.
Welcome to the Whole Parent Podcast.
My name is John.
I want to take you to aSaturday morning.
It was about a week ago andmost Saturday mornings in my
house go something like this mytwo older kids they're seven and
four they're running around theliving room chasing each other
with this insane happiness,slash, aggression, slash,
(00:21):
screaming.
It's the mood of 7am at myhouse.
My youngest is still crying.
He got up too early andeverything is overwhelming to
him.
I don't remember if it was hiscereal being too soggy or not
having enough milk.
Honestly, it could have beenanything.
And at this moment I am just onthe edge.
(00:44):
I'm tired, I'm grumpy.
I wish that I got at least one,maybe two more hours of sleep.
And I don't even rememberexactly the moment when I got to
that breaking point.
I think it was just the noise,honestly, the unrelenting,
constant sound of humans.
I know that at one pointsomebody knocked over an entire
(01:06):
cup of water.
Suddenly, I am screaming at thetop of my lungs at my kids calm
down, which I just want to takea moment here.
If you've ever yelled atsomeone to calm down, you know
that this rarely works.
I don't remember seeing theirfaces before that happened, but
I do remember the look on theirfaces immediately after All of
(01:28):
the playfulness, all of the joygone, fear, confusion.
And that is when it hit me thatI wasn't really yelling because
of them.
No, I was yelling because ofsomething inside of me.
There are things in all of ourchildhoods, knots, that we
haven't untangled yet, and thereaction that feels so natural,
(01:50):
so reflexive, that seems tobelong to me or you.
In those moments it belongs tosomeone else entirely my parents
, maybe even my parents' parents.
It was an inheritance that Ididn't really know that I had
gotten and I certainly didn'twant to pass down, but somehow I
was just passing it down again.
(02:11):
Today, on the Whole ParentPodcast, we're asking what does
it mean to become conscious ofthis as a parent, conscious of
your role on the journey ofparenting and especially
conscious of what we bring alongon that journey, both good and
bad Our childhoods, ourperspectives, our worldviews,
our assumptions of what it meansto be a parent in the first
place, and with me to talk aboutthis is probably the best
(02:34):
person in the world to talkabout conscious parenting the
inventor, the creator, thediscoverer.
You might just call her theparent of conscious parenting,
dr Shefali.
Dr. Shefali (02:43):
When I see the younger generation taking on.
You know, things that I startedor, you know, envisioned many,
many years ago.
So I was in my early thirties,20 years ago, when I first kind
of pioneered this whole movementwhich it is now of conscious
parenting.
but no one talked aboutconsciousness in the parent back
(03:07):
then.
No one talked about thatparents need to heal.
Back then I was one of thefirst ones to do that and it's
so refreshing for me now, as anold lady, to see young people
like you take it on.
I mean, I can't believe it.
Jon @wholeparent (03:21):
Just talk a little bit about that, because I
think a lot of people have amisunderstanding of what
conscious parenting is.
Obviously, you're the creator,you're the trailblazer.
You get to define these termsif you want to For those
unfamiliar.
Why is this such a radicalshift from traditional parenting
to parent more consciously?
Dr. Shefali (03:37):
And it is a very revolutionary, radical paradigm
shift that I'm so proud that Icould be the spokesperson for.
And just to back up a littlebit, when the book came out in
2010, the radical book calledthe Conscious Parent.
Back then, literally, we didn'thave Instagram, we didn't have
(03:58):
mailing lists, so it was throughthe force of the word.
Until I began writing aboutthis, most of us were following
the traditional parentingparadigm, which had in its
undertones the message that thechild needed to be fixed,
discipline was to be given tothe child and that the parent
(04:18):
knows best, and it was a veryrigid, traditional, hierarchical
model.
And when I came onto the scenewith my awakening that the ego,
this false self of the parentwas actually creating a great
disconnection because of theparent's unhealed self and I
(04:39):
discovered that, through mymeditation practice, through my
spiritual practice, through mydeep inner psychological healing
as spiritual practice, throughmy deep inner psychological
healing as a mother, but also asa clinical psychologist taking
other parents on this journey,that I just literally, in an
epiphany, put it all togetherand wrote this book called the
Conscious Parent, which has nowrevolutionized how we do
(05:01):
parenting.
Even if people haven't heardabout me per se, people like you
and all the next generation areheavily influenced by this work
right.
So it is a radical shift awayfrom being child-centered,
meaning child-focused, fixingthe child to the parent
beginning to do that inner workto heal themselves.
(05:21):
And I really go strong and heavyand brutally against the
parental ego because it is theparent's unhealed self and I
promise you to this day, mydaughter's 21.
It is my unhealed self thatruins the moment and ruins her
self-esteem.
It's not the child, it is theparent.
(05:42):
And I do it in a gentle way, ina compassionate way, because I
show parents that if you healyourself because of your child,
you're actually giving yourselfthe biggest gift.
so my gift is to the parents andmy latest book, now number
seven, is called the parentingmap and it's out there and it's
a step-by-step solution to howto raise the most empowered
(06:03):
child but to raise the parentright.
Jon @wholeparent (06:06):
Well, and that's and I think that that's
such an important mindset shiftto just say like we're moving
from the concept that the childneeds to be controlled, that the
child, that all of the problemswithin parenting come from the
child, and we're flipping thaton its head and we're actually
saying no, what?
The fundamental issue here isthe childhood wounds of the
parent, often right Like theparent is then enacting their
(06:28):
own childhood wounds back ontotheir own kids.
And I love what you say in thebook, at least in I think you
talk about this in multiplebooks.
I've read a couple of yourbooks but sometimes they blend
together where you're talkingabout the mirror and that's this
opportunity with your kids toactually reconsider your own
paradigms.
And when you talk about it froma spiritual perspective, it's
(06:48):
really interesting to me.
I think we come at things fromdifferent people, come to
different the same, the samelocation from different avenues.
And I look at all this buddingscience into how we go through
these massive neural pruningsand stuff like that when we
become parents and it's like, ohmy God Dr Shefali was saying
this from a spiritualperspective what we've now
observed from an fMRIperspective, that my gosh, like
(07:11):
this is actually physicalchanges happening in the brain.
Dr. Shefali (07:15):
So you're right that this mirroring and our
mirror neurons are alwayscolliding and feeding off each
other, especially in theparenting process.
So we don't really know forsure what is our stuff and what
is the child's stuff.
That's why what I teach interms of mindfulness and raising
(07:37):
your consciousness is soimportant, because our
children's mirror neurons arefeeding off us all the time.
So until the parent becomesconscious, mindful, present,
attuned, they will be projectingstuff onto their children and
thinking that the child issending those signals out.
Jon @wholeparent (07:57):
Okay, wait, hang on.
I'm going to interrupt us for amoment because I think that
there's some neuroscience herethat can help us understand
what's going on, and it has todo with how memory works, or
maybe more accurately, how amemory doesn't work.
We often think of memory askind of explicit details, clear,
vivid recollections, like thefirst day of school, first kiss,
(08:17):
that embarrassing moment inmiddle school For me it was when
my pants got pulled down andthose aren't always accurate.
In fact they're rarely accurate.
But that's not what we'retalking about today.
We're talking about the otherkind of memories that our brain
stores.
They're called implicitmemories.
These are subconsciousemotional imprints from our past
, particularly from childhood.
They're not memories that weconsciously recall, but yet they
(08:40):
shape how we feel and we reactin the present moment.
Implicit memories are powerfulbecause they don't just sit
quietly in our minds.
They form these sort ofundercurrents of our emotional
responses.
They're memories, experiences,sensations and emotions that get
encoded in our brains whenwe're young, often when we're
not even aware that we were evenforming a memory and then they
(09:01):
become sort of triggers for us.
Think of it like an emotionalresidue that's left behind from
experiences and then they becomesort of triggers for us.
Think of it like an emotionalresidue that's left behind from
experiences like fear, shame orpositive things like love,
safety.
They're raw, they're visceral,they're deeply ingrained,
they're buried in our limbicsystem, not in our conscious
memory.
And so when we get triggered,like I did in that moment with
(09:23):
my kids a couple of Saturdaysago, it's like these old, hidden
memories can actually take overour brain, they can hijack our
brains.
And this is because, as onepsychologist, dr Dan Nicholas,
says, there is no time in themind, and so the brain doesn't
distinguish between our past andpresent threats to our survival
.
Very well, our survival verywell.
(09:48):
When our kids do something thatwe did and were punished for or
shamed for, whether that's alaugh that's just too loud or an
unexpected mess, it doesn'tjust activate the minor
irritation of our adult minds,it actually activates our deep
inner child.
And so understanding this iscrucial, because it shows us
that these intense emotionalreactions that we sometimes have
as parents, they aren't justbad habits or character flaws.
(10:10):
They're implicit memories thatare trying to protect us in ways
that no longer serve us.
Remember, the brain is wired toprotect us, and that includes
sometimes protecting us when wedon't need protecting.
This is why becoming aware, orbecoming conscious, as Dr
Shefali puts it, is so essential.
It's about recognizing thoseold patterns, the implicit
(10:31):
memories, the relics of our pastthat don't need to control us
anymore.
But I'll shut up and let DrShefali talk.
Here's the metaphor she uses todescribe this.
Dr. Shefali (10:40):
So just picture that the child, a little puppy,
a child, a plant, all these verynew saplings have come into
your care.
They have an essence that iswaiting to blossom, but it takes
time, so, till it blossoms onits own, they are de novo, they
are kind of ready to absorb thewater, the sunshine that it
(11:03):
needs to receive.
Now the parent is the water,the sunshine that it needs to
receive.
Now the parent is the water andthe sunshine.
If the parent is not healed, ifthe parent has muddy water, if
the parent's sunshine is blocked, if the parent is not in fresh
air, if the parent which, let metell you, all of us are not, we
haven't done the work.
We're in our early 30s.
For the most part, we are raw,wounded, bruised from our 20s.
(11:26):
We don't know what's hit us, wedon't know what this thing is
called the child.
The child is looking at you andwanting to say to you hey, see
(11:48):
me for who I am, help me developinto my apple tree or my pear
tree, or the tree that I'msupposed to become from my own
essence.
But we, because we're socontaminated, we're like forget
your apples and forget yourpears.
I think you're a rosebush, soI'm going to treat you like a
rosebush, but the pear tree issaying, no, I'm a pear tree.
(12:08):
So now the child is looking tobe mirrored for its essence, but
the parent, because it wasnever followed and understood
for its essence, is looking forthe child to complete it.
So the child is like, hey, Iwant to be me no-transcript.
Jon @wholeparent (12:46):
I mean, I think we could have an entire
conversation about culture here,where different cultures enact
this differently.
But every culture enacts someform of hey.
It's not just wisdom beingpassed down, it's not just hey.
I've seen some things and Ithink parents can be amazing
mentors and I know that youbelieve that too but they have
to be mentors that understandthe natural essence of their
(13:09):
children.
They cannot be mentors that arelooking for an intended result,
and so frequently what I'mexperiencing in my own parenting
journey are all of thesemoments when I feel the most
triggered are the moments whenwhat my child is doing is not
fulfilling some unnamedexpectation, and I think we
think of extreme examples.
You know, you have, like, animmigrant parent or something
(13:30):
who, like, didn't get to be thething that they wanted to be,
and we, we kind of hyperbolizein some ways when in reality
often it's just like my childdoes not like doing the thing
that I like to do and thatbothers me deeply For some
reason that's so offensive to me, or my child doesn't like the
political party or the religioustradition that I'm a part of
(13:50):
and that's wounding to us, andwe get triggered.
Dr. Shefali (13:53):
So what do we do when we're getting triggered we
cannot see our children asseparate is because we ourselves
are not yet differentiated,whole, autonomous, abundant
(14:15):
people.
We are tethered to the approvalof our parents, our culture.
We are so infantilized throughour own lack of development that
we are so emotionally, you know, enslaved to the opinions of
others.
Now, because we live enslaved,licking everyone wanting their
opinion, wanting theirvalidation, wanting their praise
, of course, then we transferthat enmeshment and codependency
(14:38):
onto our children and now go,now, I want you to be someone
who can, I feel like I canapprove myself from the others
with.
So I use my child to get thatapproval.
I use my child to get thatvalidation, you see.
So it's an extension of myhunger.
So, of course, now if my childshows up with different ideas,
(14:59):
different moods, I am verytriggered, because my intention
to have this child is not thatthe child grows up to be their
own person.
I am barely my own person myself.
I am using my child to get myown crumbs of validation and
approval from society, myparents and culture.
Therefore, I cannot bear for mychild to be different, because
(15:20):
my survival, my emotionalsurvival, depends on this child,
and this is why parenting is sotoxic when we are not awakened.
That's why, when the childdrops a glass of milk or says F
you, god forbid, we will beatthem up, we will lock them up
and we will justify it, becauseit is anathema to us that the
(15:42):
child dares to be their ownspirit.
You see, our subconsciouscontract with our child is
listen, child, I'm going to giveyou money and I'm going to
raise you, but please, you aregoing to give me a sense of self
.
So please go to the, please goto the right schools, because I
need you to give me the approvalthat I've never gotten on my
(16:03):
own.
Jon @wholeparent (16:05):
Hold on a sec.
I want to take one more pausehere and unpack this idea of the
subconscious contract between aparent and a child, because
it's a game changer.
It is how I really started tounderstand my own stuff and I
think it can be really helpfulto you.
Understanding the roots oftoxic parenting dynamics really
come down to understanding thiscontract.
What Dr Shvali is getting athere is this unspoken agreement
(16:28):
that we have that we oftenimpose upon our kids, something
that they never signed up for.
And it's this psychologicaldeal that says, like I'll
provide for you, I'll love you,I'll support you, but in return
you're going to have to make mefeel like I'm enough, like I've
done okay in the eyes of myparents or whoever.
I'm looking for validation frommy culture, my society,
(16:49):
whatever.
And this is where the problemstarts.
Most of us aren't even awarethat the contract exists.
This is why consciousness orawareness is what Dr Shefali is
talking about.
That's the whole point here,right?
This is why we call itconscious parenting.
We have to wake up one day anddecide I'm not going to use my
kid to feel better about myselfand my childhood wounds because
(17:11):
the deep-seated need forapproval approval that we often
didn't get growing up or that weconstantly need to earn because
we were told that that's allwe're valued for.
We have to get that fromourselves.
It has to come from inside ofus.
It can't come from our kids.
And so, without realizing it,we often start projecting these
needs onto our kids and until webecome conscious of the reality
(17:32):
, it's just gonna be ourexistence right, it's just gonna
be manifesting.
We're not gonna be able to bethe parent that we want to be to
our kid and, ultimately, thatour kid needs us to be in order
for them to embody their trueand authentic self.
And actually, dr Shefali has aperfect quote about this.
It's something I put into myown book and it's something that
(17:53):
I asked her about.
Quote I know that you alreadyknow the quote before I read it,
but I'm going to read it forthe audience In the Conscious
Parent.
It's got to be the most pulledout quote of all of the quotes,
but it's the one that I includein my book and so I wanted to
read it.
I just wanted to get your takeof.
You're almost 15 years later now, probably 15 years since you
wrote this, because it takes solong for a book to come out you
(18:14):
wrote when you're a parent, it'scrucial to realize that you're
not raising a mini me, but aspirit throbbing with its own
signature.
For this reason, it's importantto separate who you are from
who each of your children is.
Children aren't ours to possessor own in any way.
When we know the depths of oursoul, we tailor our raising of
them to their needs rather thanmolding them to fit our needs.
(18:36):
Can you?
In 15 years, is this still true?
How would you respond?
Are you doubling down?
Are you saying I wish thatwasn't in the book because I
would have said it a differentway?
Give me your, take 15 years out.
Dr. Shefali (18:50):
I mean, I will tell you that the reason I can so
you know, loudly and daringly,be a voice of this message is
because almost everything I saidin 2010, which I really began
thinking in 2007, is 1000%eloquently, spot on.
There's nothing I've changed,because the wisdom of this
(19:13):
message is so true that I neverhave to think about it.
It's just part of my being,it's part of your being and my
being, because it rings so true.
It's not gimmicky, it's notstrategy, it's not a quote that
I pull out, and I don't havethese pithy maxims.
This is wisdom that is for theages.
(19:35):
So look at that quote, right?
It says until we know thedepths of our own soul, we will
not be able to attune to who ourchildren are.
What this means is, if we don'tknow who we are, if we haven't
discovered the joy of beingalive within our own authentic
freedom, we will not be able togive that authentic freedom to
anyone else.
(19:56):
The reason we cage other peopleis because we live in cages.
The reason we are racist withother people is because we live
separated from our own heart,our awakened, diamond heart.
People who live in theirdiamond, awakened heart allow
others to be seen for who it is.
They are and people willgravitate toward those people
(20:17):
and they will be beacons ofwisdom and a message.
So if people listening rightnow go, damn, this is like
preaching and I need this in mylife.
Well, now come and learn anddeclare yourself a student and a
seeker.
You know, I've been doing thisfor 20 years now and I've honed
(20:38):
the message and this is what Iteach.
Jon @wholeparent (20:40):
I know that you have advice for parents.
How do we get through this?
Dr. Shefali (20:43):
Okay.
So first, parents listening tothis have to feel right now.
I'm showing you right now howto begin to awaken a
consciousness.
So, as you're listening to this, tap into your body right now.
Do you feel a resonance?
Do you feel like, oh my God,they are talking about something
that I know in my soul but I'venever articulated?
(21:06):
First, we begin to feel thingsin an attuned way, connected way
, present way, here and now.
Now we have to then realize ohmy God, I have to learn this
method that she's talking aboutand I have to apply myself as a
seeker, as a student.
Right, you have to first sendout to the universe I am ready
(21:27):
to learn what she's talkingabout.
Right, we have to send out thatdeclaration.
These emotional, intentionalshifts are the first place.
Without this, it'll just begive me a strategy, dr Shefali,
and then you're going to forgetabout it.
The people who follow me, whocome to my podcast, who listen
to my podcast every single week,who take my courses, join my
(21:49):
institute where I teach a method.
They are seekers of thismessage.
So, declaration and intention.
Okay, number two once you beginto take these courses, learn
this method, then what willhappen?
John is in the moment, whenthey're triggered the next time
and they are about to react,they are going to be trained by
(22:11):
me to know whoa, whoa, whoa,whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa,
whoa, like red flag, red flag,red flag, red flag.
This is what she was talkingabout.
And then I teach how to regulateyourself in the moment by
saying things like I'm safe, mychild is not an enemy, my child
is just being a child, my childis of their own essence.
I am feeling robbed, abducted,stolen, reacted to.
(22:38):
I'm feeling like I'm in abattle because of the fact that
this is reminding me of a memoryfrom my childhood.
I'm safe, I'm not five yearsold.
And then I teach people how toground themselves in their
bodies.
You know, this is what myinstitute teaches people how to
do.
It's a parent school and wepractice how to ground, how to
create emotional safety, andthen, when you're resourced,
then I teach how to connect withyour children.
(23:00):
So even in my book, theParenting Map if you can't spend
any money, but $15, myParenting Map book.
Listen to it on audio.
I give you 20 steps and I giveyou exercises.
Listen to it on audio.
I give you 20 steps and I giveyou exercises.
So what I'm basically saying isit's in the present, it's in
the moment.
You have to learn to calmlyregulate yourself.
You have to see your child as achild, not your enemy.
(23:21):
You have to understand thatyour own inner child is on fire.
Your ego is coming to protectthe inner child and once you
learn this terminology and thisway of being, you can see it and
then you begin.
I have t-shirts that say I'm aninner child, I'm an inner child
.
I'm an ego.
I wear my t-shirts so I canremember I'm still unhealed.
(23:44):
I begin to have compassion formyself and I begin to do the
reparenting work.
I mean, I began talking aboutreparenting way before the term
even began being popular andthat's what we need to do on the
daily, in a seeking way, likeI'm a seeker of my own healing.
I'm not here to fix my child orcreate an Ivy League graduate.
(24:06):
I'm here to use thisopportunity to heal that has
been left unhealed forgenerations.
Jon @wholeparent (24:13):
Yeah, and I think that this is.
I just feel like you're, everyonce in a while, have somebody
on the podcast who, who reallychallenges the way that I think
about parenting and, and I'll behonest, this is not that
conversation, because everythingthat you're saying is just so,
it just fits, it fits so cleanly.
And as much as we talk aboutthe brain hacks and the
(24:33):
neuroscience and how we can getout of our limbic system in the
moment, and we have all thesefancy terms for it and all of
these ways of thinking about it,ultimately it comes down to
realizing that in the momentwhen you're with your kid, the
reason that we default topunishment shame, blame,
aggression, shame, any of thosethings isolation, disrespect is
(24:57):
because ultimately we feel inthat moment unsafe and we feel
in that moment out of control,and it's not because our child
has made us feel that way.
It is because we feel that wayand until we deal with us, we
can't fix that Correct.
Dr. Shefali (25:15):
We can't do anything with that.
Correct.
And imagine that traditionalparenting model never told
parents that it's you.
We can't do anything with that.
So imagine, by beating yourchild, punishing your child,
(25:37):
shaming your child, you arecommunicating to that
two-year-old, thatseven-year-old that they are bad
, they are the cause of myoutrage.
The parent took noresponsibility and it's only
work like mine and yours nowthat puts the spotlight.
I wrote in my first book, theConscious Parent.
It's time for us to put thespotlight on the parent.
(25:59):
Enough of focusing on the child.
It looks like we're so caring,but it's not caring at all.
It is our control of anotherspirit and their essence and
taking it hostage because we'venot done our work.
Now listen, I have greatcompassion for the parent
because the parent never had itfrom their parent.
So this work is about theevolution of the parent, because
(26:23):
I believe it is the future ofthe planet.
Somebody once asked me what doyou believe is the future of the
planet?
And I said the person who holdsthe key is the parent.
It is in the parent's evolution,that the future generations
will be healed, and that's whatmy mission is in this world.
I'm just focused on it, notbecause I love children, but
because I know the toxicity andthe dysfunction that we pass
(26:46):
down and what has destroyed theplanet.
What has destroyed, you'll say,corporate greed.
Why is the corporate leadergreedy?
Because the corporate leader isa little boy, for the most part
, who is screaming for see me,see me, see me.
Jon @wholeparent (27:03):
You're preaching.
Dr. Shefali (27:04):
Because my 16 Bentleys is not enough.
I need to own the island.
I need to own America.
Jon @wholeparent (27:11):
Yeah, no, you're preaching.
I mean, you're preaching to thechoir.
You know I occasionally willget approached by politicians
who are like, can you endorse soand so?
And oftentimes I'll reject anysort of like.
I'm not going to get involved,and the reason why I do is I go,
look, if you want to changelike I understand that you want
to get elected or you want thisperson to get elected but
ultimately, if you want tochange the next generation, you
(27:32):
have to realize that the reasonthat the dysfunction exists is
because how people were treatedwhen they were kids, that they
were treated in a certain way.
And then you're asking adultsto change and I'm not saying
that adults can't change.
Obviously, both your work andmy work is about adults changing
.
But adults actually have towant to change, like kids, like
the way that we parent.
If we can change a generationof even 10% of the parents, 20%
(27:56):
of the parents, the nextgeneration is going to be so
much more equipped and you canalready see this with your own
daughter, right, like how muchmore emotionally regulated.
Again, this is something that Italked about with other people
who've been doing this work fora long time.
They're like I just didn't havethe problems that other people
had with their teenager.
Why?
Because at two, at three, atfour, I did my own work.
(28:16):
I got in my own body, realizedwhat I was doing was problematic
.
I shifted the paradigm, Ibecame conscious and, as a
result, my 16-year-old wasn'tseeking for autonomy like a
12-year-old or like atwo-year-old, and I didn't have
to worry about a lot of theproblems.
And so this is parenting forthe long term, not just for the
long term of your child, notjust for the long term of your
(28:38):
family or the generations tocome, but the long term of your
child, not just for the longterm of your family or the
generations to come but the longterm of the world, and it is
world changing stuff.
Dr. Shefali (28:46):
If people want to ever do what I do in the world,
they can learn from me and myinstitute, or they can visit my
website and take a course orfollow my podcast, where I coach
people in real time.
So what I'm basically saying isit's not enough to just want to
be a good parent.
You have to cultivate it, andthere is no parent school till.
I created my institute.
So you have to learn the skills, dedicate your life to it.
(29:10):
You know people will spendmoney on you know, vacation to
Europe for four.
People will, you know, buy big,fancy cars, sports cars, but
they won't dedicate the effortand the intention to become the
most conscious person and parent.
Well, this is this is why youand I do this work, because we
are inviting people to come andlearn these skills because they
(29:31):
never did learn.
We've not learned any of thisin college or school.
Jon @wholeparent (29:36):
Yeah, I think that's such a compelling and
important point, just first off,that we need to start
prioritizing these things.
Tell us more.
Yeah, I want to hear more.
You've kind of alluded to it acouple times.
Obviously, we can link belowthe parenting map you also
mentioned you have a cohortstarting.
Can you tell us more about thatso parents know how they can
get involved?
Dr. Shefali (29:56):
Okay.
So before I talk about myinstitute, I do have a free
podcast where I coach parents inmy method every single week.
So parents are coming to mewith their issues and I help
them reframe and understand theconscious parenting approach.
The podcast is called Parentingand you with me, dr Shefali, so
please tune into that everyTuesday.
(30:16):
That's free for you.
And then I have a parent schooland a life school.
It's called the ConsciousParenting and Life Coaching
Program.
It's in my institute.
I certify people to do this workwith others.
I teach them my method.
They see me coaching and Iteach them how I coach, what I'm
thinking about.
It's five months, it's online.
It's twice a year.
(30:37):
The next cohort starts in aweek or two, but they can join
the next one.
But they should come andexplore it and see it for
themselves, because it is theirredemption for their own
childhood that was robbed.
It's their gift to give it back.
I teach you how to reparentyourself and then I teach you
how to teach others to do it forthemselves, and it's two weeks
(30:59):
money back guarantee.
You can just check it out.
But it is the parent schoolthat we never had.
Jon @wholeparent (31:03):
Yeah, I love that and I would encourage
parents who even if, you know, Idon't know all the details
about it, I'm just learningabout it too but I will say that
in my own journey to educatingand when I wrote the book like,
this sounds very I think thatyou'll understand this.
This may sound weird to peoplewho are listening to this after
the fact, but even when I read,reread my own book, I realized
(31:27):
that it's almost an out of bodyexperience.
To go actually learning how toteach people is how I became the
best parent that I could be,and that it actually if I, if I
stopped at just learning how tobecome the best parent I could
be.
There's so much that, like thenI'm always playing, I'm still
playing whack-a-mole.
It's actually through coachingother people and through walking
(31:48):
with other people and friendsand really building that village
cohort to help people to parentmore effectively consciously,
you know, with their child inmind, with their child's
development in mind, which Ithink is part of this too, and
we can talk about that anothertime.
But understanding all of thesethings at once, then becoming
the teacher, that's often whenyou become the best student, and
(32:09):
so and isn't coaching.
Dr. Shefali (32:11):
I know that that's given me purpose.
Absolutely.
You and I get so fired up andyou know, you and I know, after
we've had a session with aparent or a human being any
human being and we've helpedthem, doesn't that feel damn
good.
Jon @wholeparent (32:25):
Literally, this is the most fulfillment I
get out of my like my entirewhole parent thing is sitting
with parents.
Usually it's like five to 10parents at a time and going,
okay, what's going on this week?
And parents coming to me andgoing you know, yeah, I got this
and I got this and I got thisand, and just simplifying and
being the outside observer whocan go, you know what A lot of
(32:45):
this comes back to just this onething that happened that you,
you're not seeing, and thenparents are like God, I didn't
know.
And it's such a rewardingexperience.
Dr. Shefali (32:55):
It's and it's you know, know.
Parents don't know what theydon't know.
People like us are laying thepath, but people have to invest
in it and see this as crucialfor not only their children, but
for themselves and I think thatthat's the real plug here,
right, like if we're going toend this on it on a really
powerful note.
Jon @wholeparent (33:12):
It's that this is not about raising like this
is not something that you shoulddo if you feel ashamed that
you're not the perfect parent.
This is something that ispaying dividends and investment
for you Becoming a consciousparent.
However, you do that, whetherthat's through the cohort,
whether that's through you'regoing on and taking one of your
courses on your website, goinglistening to the podcast, which
(33:33):
is obviously free, getting aparenting map, getting the
original conscious parent, likeany of those things.
This is actually paying intoyou as a person, because in the
internal validation piece, I'lltell you from personal
experience the internalvalidation piece this has made
my life better.
It has not made my parentinglike my parenting is better
because my life is better.
Dr. Shefali (33:52):
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
And learning you know what Iteach in terms of spirituality
and wisdom is makes youbulletproof, and people don't
realize there is a way to thinkand live that can make you
bulletproof.
Yes, it can still be hard, butyou're kind, and so that's why,
if people feel resonant with mywords and my energy, that's what
(34:16):
they should follow.
Start following the breadcrumbs.
If you feel like John istalking to your soul, follow the
breadcrumbs.
People have lost touch withfollowing what shows up in their
lives.
If you're listening to this, itmeans it's for you.
Now, what you do with it, likeJohn said, to what extent, is up
to you, but don't not dosomething.
Follow the breadcrumbs of yourlife.
They will lead you to where youneed to go.
Jon @wholeparent (34:41):
And this has been so powerful for me too,
because I often forget that somuch of this is a spiritual
process, that I spend so muchtime talking about neuroscience
and again, we could just go intothat forever and mirror neurons
and this we kind of alluded toit, Neural pruning we could talk
about that.
Ultimately, this is a spiritualprocess too, that that just
knowing everything about yourkid's brain, just knowing
everything about your own brain,just knowing everything, all
(35:02):
the tricks and tips and tactics,At some point you're a
spiritual being encounteringanother spiritual being.
If you don't get that stuff onlock and we know from a
neuroscience perspective,nerding out, that it actually
does change your brain too, thatfocusing on that stuff
physically changes your brainanatomy.
So thank you for all of yourwork, not just today on the
(35:23):
podcast, but all throughout.
Give us a final word.
Dr. Shefali (35:26):
Yeah, I just want to say that, and that's why
having one umbrella place whereyou learn all this, so my parent
school, my university, myinstitute is I talk about the
brain, I talk about trauma, Italk about body approaches, I
talk about ADHD, autism, all thediagnosis you can think of, and
I teach meditation andintegrate the Eastern
(35:48):
spirituality and I talk aboutthe inner child and how to heal
it.
I mean, that's why it's fivemonths, it's very intense, it's
130 hours.
It's like a master's intense,immersive course and it changes
your life because once you'reequipped with the language and
the wisdom, you have the eastand the west.
Now you have a holisticframework.
(36:08):
But, john, you are fantasticand I just want to tell everyone
you know join his mastermind,join his workshop.
Each one of us speaks adifferent language and you can
begin to follow your breadcrumbs, but don't just sit there.
Take the next step and take anaction.
Jon @wholeparent (36:25):
Yeah, no, it's .
Thank you for saying that.
I really appreciate that.
That's.
That's so humbling to hear andyou know I'll be sending you.
You're on my list.
I just didn't get your addressyet.
Don't tell it on the on thepodcast, but I'll be sending you
an advanced copy of the book sothat you can check it out and
especially read that chapterthat that really was so
influenced by your work.
Yeah, follow me.
Obviously follow Dr Shefali,but don't just follow one of us.
(36:48):
You're not going to geteverything you need from me.
You might get everything youneed from her, but if it's
easier to hear from me, I'm I'mhappy to be that voice.
And, dr Shivali, if you everneed a guest lecture to come
talk to millennials about kids'brains, you know where to find
me.
Dr. Shefali (37:01):
I love it, john.
We will be in touch forever.
Thank you so much, and everyone, for listening.
Jon @wholeparent (37:06):
Yes, thank you .
If you have enjoyed thisepisode of the Whole Parent
Podcast, please don't forget tosupport us.
Go onto whatever podcastplatform you're listening on
right now and rate this showfive stars.
Please write a review.
I read every single review thatwe get and it's your reviews
and your ratings that allow meto get amazing guests like Dr
Shivali.
If you have found thisconversation to be helpful to
(37:28):
your parenting journeyinsightful, inspiring, whatever
share it with your friends,people who could benefit from
this new, fresh perspective onconscious parenting.
You can also follow me onInstagram, facebook, tiktok,
wherever to get updated onfuture things that we're doing
on the Whole Parent Podcast.
I'm again at Whole Parent andParenting Tips.
(37:49):
That's where I do most of that.
This is my long form content.
That's my short form.
Anyway, thank you for being apart of this journey.
Remember it starts with us.
We continue to learn, wecontinue to grow.
Parent with purpose, withconsciousness.
We'll see you next time on theWhole Parent Podcast.
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