December 18, 2025 • 42 mins
In this episode, Jon explores why parents often find themselves reacting on autopilot—saying things they swore they’d never say, in a tone that feels uncomfortably familiar. Centered on the idea of “factory default settings,” he explains how stress, fatigue, and old neural pathways quietly take over, even when our values are different. Parents will leave with relief, self-compassion, and practical nervous-system tools to interrupt inherited patterns and respond with more intention when it matters most.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jon @WholeParent (00:00):
If you've ever heard yourself say something to
your child and thought, wait,where did that come from?
You're not alone.
So many parents have that momentwhen the phrase or the tone or
the reaction slips out and itsounds a little too familiar,
like something you grew uphearing.
And then afterward, you're leftwondering why it showed up,
(00:21):
especially when it doesn't alignwith the kind of parent that
you're trying to be.
In today's episode, we'retalking about why inherited
parenting scripts sometimesresurface under stress, what's
actually happening in our brainand nervous system when that
happens, and why this isn't asign that you're failing or
turning into your parents.
(00:41):
We'll break down why stress,fatigue, and early attachment
patterns quietly take the wheel,as they say, and what it takes
to respond differently in thosemoments when it matters the
most.
Let's get into it.
(01:05):
This is definitely an episodethat I relate to because, man,
do I ever sound like my dad whenI get stressed?
Uh, I uh talk about my dad notthat much on the pod, but
occasionally I'll mention him.
Uh, he passed away nine yearsago, almost almost nine years
(01:26):
ago.
And it's been a journey to kindof reconcile that.
And we had a pretty goodrelationship, especially at the
end of his life, but we didn'talways have the perfect, a
perfect relationship.
And certainly he did not parentin the way that I talk about.
Uh, not always.
He actually did a lot more whenI was older, but not when I was
a little kid.
And sometimes when my kids areacting up, or especially when
(01:50):
I'm stressed about work andstuff, I just start doing this
thing.
And I sound just like him, and Isay the same type of stuff, but
actually it's more the tone thananything.
And I found myself doing thattoday.
Uh, me and my son were playingvideo games, which is something
that we do together.
We are like, he'll be playing agame, and I'll be sitting next
(02:11):
to him and trying to like guidehim through it.
We're playing this game, andit's probably a little beyond
his capacity, but it's like kindof providing him good stress.
And uh again, this is somethingwe do together, and so I'm not
particularly worried about it,but it does present some
challenges where he has torespawn and restart over and
(02:33):
over when he fails at missions.
And this is, you know, it's likea Mario game, it's not anything
too too big of a deal.
But um, when he's playing thisMario game today, he just like
was not doing the right patternof buttons that that we had
worked that he was working on,and that I had seen him do like
a million times.
(02:53):
But under stress, like it justbecame more challenging for him.
And so he was struggling, andand we got so close to
completing uh this level that hehad been struggling on and this
little sequence that he had beenstruggling on.
And I know it's like not thetime when you'd think that bad
parenting comes out, but it's astress environment.
I was being competitive, he wasbeing competitive.
(03:14):
We're not playing against eachother, remember?
We're playing against thecomputer, but he's the one
holding the controls, which isits own level of frustration
because I just want to do it forhim, and he doesn't want me to
do it for him.
And he used to want me to do itfor him, but he doesn't anymore.
Now he just wants to do ithimself, and he was struggling,
and I was just like, press L andR together, push L and R
together, press and I'm gettinglike more and more like frantic,
(03:37):
just press L and R at the sametime.
SPEAKER_00 (03:39):
You're so close, it's over.
You just gotta do it reallyquick and then you're done.
Jon @WholeParent (03:44):
And he was not doing it, he just like panicked
and finally he did it in themoment, and I was like, ah,
you're stressing me out, buddy.
And he was like, I did not likethat, I did not like how
stressed you were.
I did not like this, is that wasnot fun, dad.
Don't do that again.
And I had to, you know,apologize and say, Yeah, that
was not ideal, that was notgood.
(04:06):
And I give you that examplebecause it just happened like an
hour ago, right?
But I could give you otherexamples, probably not from
today per se, but certainly fromdays previously where I just it
just comes out.
My kids say something and it'sfrustrating, and it just I just
(04:29):
snap.
And it's not even like it's inalways the worst moments, in
fact.
Like I just shared, it'ssometimes it's just in the
moments where I'm not reallythinking.
And I say stuff to my kids thatI just wish that, and like I
said, it's mostly the tone inwhich I say things.
It just I wish it wasn't a tonethat I possessed.
(04:49):
But it's something that Iinherited, it's part of my
journey.
And so I've done a lot of workto know when I'm climbing the
mountain.
If you've ever attended one ofmy How to Stop Yelling at Your
Kids workshops or breaking theyelling cycle workshops, you've
heard me talk about climbing themountain.
I've done a lot of work to tryand catch myself when I'm
climbing the mountain, but it'swhen those things happen out of
(05:10):
nowhere now that that aren'treally, like I said, they're not
really frustrating and likeanger-inducing.
It's like they just they slippast my defenses and I don't
realize that I'm escalated.
And it's probably today thereason why that happened this
evening is because of otherthings that are going on.
So uh just share somethingunrelated to parenting.
(05:31):
Uh, my computer was filled uptoday, and I part of it's that
I've been recording so manypodcasts and the way that I
record them, they're like fouror five gigs when I record them.
You're like, John, it's justaudio, it's not that big of a
deal.
No, I record all these as videojust so that someday, you know,
if I ever want to put them outon YouTube or something, I can.
And I record them very highquality because I have the
(05:52):
capability to do it, and sothere's huge files.
And then when I edit them,they're like huge again because
I edit them in video too, sothat I don't have to go back and
do that someday.
And so uh giving you lots ofinsights into what you know, how
how big my computer storage is.
But basically, I clicked onewrong button today and I froze
up my computer.
(06:12):
I accidentally downloaded like apatch of files that completely
exhausted my storage.
And then in trying to fix it, Iaccidentally deleted basically
everything related to wholeparent that I'd worked on for
the last three years.
Forever.
And some of the stuff I hadsaved other places or whatever.
(06:33):
And you might say, like, John,isn't this all backed up?
Like, some of it, but I haven'tdone that as much as I ought to.
Certainly have not been nearlyas diligent as I need to be.
Partially it's because the waythat I have stuff, I way that I
back stuff up.
Um, usually the I bypassed likemy safeguards in order to do
this.
And I was just kind of beingcheap.
(06:54):
I just didn't want to pay foradditional cloud storage, and
that really psyched me up.
I also have had some issues withthe marketing company that I've
been working with.
So there's a lot of likeunrelated to parenting stuff
that has come out and has rearedits head.
And I think that's sometimes whyI can go zero to 60 on really
(07:16):
simple, easy things is becausethat's all going on behind the
scenes.
So anyway, um I want to jump in.
I know that that's been a superlong intro.
I want to jump into our firstquestion.
It comes from Mary, and I'mgonna kind of go quickly today
because I don't have a lot oftime to record, but I think that
that maybe that'll make meanswer these questions in a
little bit more of a succinctway.
So maybe it's a good thing.
(07:37):
My first question for Mary says,I keep catching myself saying
things like, I swore that Iwould never say, literally
hearing my mom's voice come outof my mouth, stuff like, I'm not
asking, I'm telling, or what'swrong with you right now?
Which I hate.
And then the second it's out, Ifeel sick.
It's usually at the end of theday when everyone's loud and I'm
(07:58):
touched out, and myfive-year-old's asking 900
questions, my two-year-old ismelting down on the floor, and I
just snap.
I don't even think those things.
I certainly don't believe them,but there they are.
Is this just what happens whenyou're tired?
Or does this mean that I'msecretly more like my parents
than I want to admit?
Mary.
Uh, do you know that in Hebrewand Aramaic, the word Mary, the
(08:23):
name Mary, the well, it's notactually Mary, but like the name
that we translate into Mary forthe Bible means bitter.
And I don't want you to bebitter, Mary.
I do not want you to be bitterbecause it is not what you
believe, and it's not thatyou're more like your parents
than you think.
It is that your nervous systemreacts viscerally to certain
(08:46):
types of stimulation, and you goback into just patterns of
mirroring what has been modeled.
And I don't think that it meansthat you're like them.
I think that it means that youstill are building new neural
pathways.
And that is not uncommon forparents.
It's certainly the truth for me,and I have been doing this for
(09:08):
nine years.
Sounds like you've been doingthis for about five years.
You have a five-year-old and atwo-year-old, which means really
you've been only been doing itfor like four years, right?
Because you haven't, or eventhree years, because you haven't
really had to do the parentingwork of like emotional
regulation and discipline untilyour kid is two or three years
old.
And so I would say that doing itfor three years means that you
(09:31):
still have a lot of growth thathas to happen.
And it's not growth in thisphilosophy of parenting, and
it's not growth in the ethics ofparenting.
It sounds like it's growth inthe practicality of rewiring
neural pathways to responddifferently.
And so I have a brain hack thatyou can use that I use because
this is almost exactly what Iwas talking about in the intro.
(09:53):
It's almost exactly what I wastalking that I talk about all
the time and break the yellingcycle.
Uh, and it's that you we respondby just do going back into our
default factory defaultparenting settings when we are
tired, when we are overwhelmed,when we are overworked, when we
lose all the files on ourcomputer, when we are having
(10:15):
trouble with a company thatwe're working with.
We go into kind of our our mostbase level.
And that is the place wherestuff comes out that we don't
really mean.
And I don't want to say thatyou're always going to do that,
but those neural pathways thatcome from our childhood do run
(10:38):
very, very deep.
And so this is not somethingthat's going to change in a day
or a week or a month or eventhree years or five years.
This is something that you'regoing to continually work on.
And the the key here, as I giveyou the brain hack, is that you
want to practice this.
And then you want to track yourprogress, right?
Anything that you care about,you should measure.
(11:01):
So track your progress literallyin your notes app on your phone.
How many times did I yell at mykids today?
Track your progress and thentrack it longitudinally over
time.
And what you'll notice is thatyou're not going to stop yelling
at your kids altogether in thefirst day with this or with
anything.
But when you look back, you'llrealize, boy, I yell a lot less.
(11:25):
Also important to note is thatyour kids are at an age where
they're you now have two kidswho are triggering you.
And this means that there'stwice as much to be triggered
about.
And so also, you know, the thiskind of multi multi-factor here.
It's not only that you are goingto get better at being triggered
(11:47):
and respond, also at the sametime, there are going to be more
things that trigger you.
So it's going to be just a danceof retraining your nervous
system to respond differently.
(16:18):
And that is a challenge, but itis totally a challenge that you
are up for.
And I can just tell by the waythat you're saying this.
So just understand, first andforemost, you're not your
parents.
You don't, you're in, andbecause of neuroplasticity, I
should have said that earlier,because of neuroplasticity, your
brain is not fixed.
You can grow in this way.
(16:40):
Like you can actually rewireyour brain to respond
differently the first time, butit's going to take intentional
effort, and that's not going tohappen overnight.
So, what I would do if I wasyou, because I I am you, what I
do, because I am you, Mary, um,is I try and drop my voice,
(17:01):
first of all.
I try and just change the way inwhich I talk.
Because, and and I think that Idon't say this enough.
What you say is important.
How you say it is moreimportant.
What you say is important, buthow you say it is even more
important.
Let me give you an examplebefore I go on.
If I said it's time to it's timeto leave.
(17:25):
It's time to leave.
It's time to leave.
It's time to leave.
All of those sound different andthey're the same words.
Those all mean different things.
Like, it's time to leave meanswe're going to something
exciting.
Get ready, get your shoes on,it's gonna be great.
It's time to leave means, orit's time to leave means, you
(17:49):
know, maybe there's gonna be alittle disappointment about
leaving, but it is time to go,and I'm gonna hold this
boundary.
And if you want to listen to theepisode about boundary holding,
that was the last one.
Sometimes they're gonna befrustrated about it.
It's okay.
You can just listen to the lastepisode, even if your kid hates
you in the moment, they won'thate you forever.
It's time to leave.
That's just a way to trigger akid, right?
(18:11):
That's frustration, that'sanger.
That is going to immediatelysend them into their fight or
flight.
So all of these are the samephrase, but how we say it
matters so much more.
And so I think over time you canrewire your brain to change what
you say.
I think right now, the moreimportant thing is to rewire
(18:33):
your brain and how you speak.
And some of it is that we workourselves up.
If we start with aggression, weare signaling to our brain that
we are in an aggressive posture,and more of the negative phrases
are going to follow.
Not just the phrasing, but thephrases.
And so as we kind of spiral intoour cortisol stress sympathetic
(18:57):
nervous response to our kids,when we're in fight or as in
fight or flight, when we're inour fight mode and our polyvagal
red, what's occurring in ourbrain is that we're actually
priming ourselves to say themore aggressive thing.
This is also good, by the way,parent uh partner advice.
This is good marriage advicetoo.
(19:18):
So we're gonna when we are ingoing into our relationship with
our kid, we are going to stepone drop our voice to below our
normal speaking register.
So if this is how I'm talkingnormally, right?
If I started to get louder, andI can see myself peeking on my
(19:41):
microphone when I do this, if Istarted to get louder, that's
above my normal speakingregister as far as loudness,
decibel level.
And if I just speak a little bitquieter, this is below.
So step one, go below, aim low.
Step two, dodgeball reference,by the way.
(20:05):
Speak more slowly.
We tend to speed up when we talkto kids when we're frustrated,
and their brain doesn't speed upto compensate, and so we need to
speak more slowly.
So you can say the same thing,but you're gonna slow your
speech literally by half.
(20:27):
Just speak more slowly andquietly.
That may sound strange, butthree things are going to
happen.
Thing number one, you'reprobably not actually gonna
speak that slow or that low,even if that's what you're
aiming for.
(20:47):
Because you're naturally whenyou get triggered and frustrated
because it's the end of the dayand married, I everything that
you said here I relate to.
It's the end of the day, yournine-year-old or your uh
five-year-old's asking you 900questions, and usually it's just
why, why, why, why, why?
And your two-year-old is meltingdown because they're exhausted
and you're all touched out.
I have been exactly where youare.
(21:08):
Although I tend to not get sotouched out, I'm a very
touchy-feely person.
My wife, though, gets realtouched out.
Mostly just when it's metouching her, to be honest,
though.
She can she can usually tolerateone of my kids, except for when
they sit on her while she'seating.
Anyway.
Um, so drop your voice belownormal register.
And when you're escalated, it'sprobably gonna raise up a little
(21:31):
bit, but by intentionally goinglower, you're probably gonna
wind up just at the normal rangeor a little bit below it, and
that's the goal.
You're going to try and speak athalf the tempo.
I can't even do it when I'mdoing the podcast, but even
trying to speak at half thetempo, you're gonna speak faster
than half the tempo.
(21:52):
This is another place wherewe're aiming one place, and so
the result is you wind upspeaking at a normal volume or a
little bit, you know, 90% ofnormal volume, and you wind up
speaking at 80% of normal speedbecause you tried to speak at
50% of normal volume and 50% ofnormal speed.
So that's thing one.
(22:13):
You're just gonna speak better.
Thing two, your kid, you're notgoing to trigger your kid, which
means that they're not going torespond by being triggered by
going into their fight or flightpolyvagal red, which means that
they're not gonna furthertrigger you.
So you're going to break thisthe nervous system response and
kind of feedback loop thatyou're creating with your kid.
(22:36):
So they're gonna respond better,which is gonna make you feel
more calm because now they'reresponding, and most parents
feel more calm when their kidstarts to comply.
Now, I'm not saying your kid'salways gonna comply with you,
but they're way more likely tocomply in a way that works well
if you don't send them deeperinto their fight or flight
response, like especiallylong-term thinking.
(22:58):
Third thing that's gonna happenis that by intentionally doing
this for you and for your kid,you are gonna activate your
vagus nerve in your tenthcranial nerve, not just theirs,
but yours.
And when you start to calm downand start to regulate, then it's
gonna make you feel like you'remore in control of what you're
(23:19):
saying in your tone.
So by intentionally doing this,right, it's kind of like fake it
until you make it.
You're faking it, and then yourbrain is picking up on those
things like, okay, we don't haveto freak out anymore.
Let's regulate down.
So this is just a practicalstep-by-step, exactly what I
would do because I feel whatyou're saying and I get it, and
it's normal.
And you're not turning into yourmom, I promise.
(23:42):
But you are still gonna say thesame stuff sometimes because
that's your factory defaultsettings.
None of us get to choose ourfactory default settings, we
only get to choose what we dowith it.
Good news, we get to rewire.
That's called neuroplasticity.
And how do we rewire?
Exactly what I just told you.
Okay, next question comes fromJason.
(24:03):
And uh Jason says, This mightsound bad, but I feel like my
kids just don't listen until Iget kind of intense.
I don't want to yell, but alsowhen they come when when I talk
calm, they just ignore me.
Then I hear myself sounding likemy dad, real sharp, real
serious, and suddenly they'repaying attention.
(24:25):
I hate it, but it also works.
So I don't know what to do withthis.
Are we just kidding ourselves,thinking that kids will listen
without fear?
Or am I missing something here?
Jason, you are not missingsomething, not at all.
You are experiencing uh the doomloop of yelling at your kids.
(24:47):
And that is, and I'm not sayingyelling, right?
Because you're just sayingintensity, but I'm just saying
yelling.
I'm saying yelling.
You're not saying yelling, I'msaying yelling.
The doom you loop of yelling atyour kids is that when you yell
at your kids, they will stopdoing whatever they're doing
because they are so afraid ofyour yelling at them.
(25:09):
And so because they're so afraidof your yelling at them, they
stop doing what they're doingand you feel like it just
worked.
What I kind of highlight in thebook, my book, Punishment for
your parenting, in the firstchapter, is that while yelling
and other forms of punishmentgain temporary short-term
compliance, they shut off thepart of our child's brain that
(25:30):
learns, which then means thatour kids wind up doing the same
stuff that we just yelled atthem at about again and again
and again.
And I apologize, my cat isreally needy today.
She's just all over me andmeowing.
And I don't know exactly whatshe's needy about.
Perhaps we've locked her foodaway from her again.
Her she's fed uh behind thisdoor that sometimes gets closed
(25:52):
when my kids are playing.
So she may just be annoying meuntil I go downstairs.
And I want to yell at her, but Ialso know that that's not
effective cat ownership.
I don't want to wake up my kids.
So what do you do about thisdoom spiral?
Well, you have to be lesseffective or feel less power in
your parenting for a shortperiod of time in order for your
(26:15):
kids to listen to you again.
So the truth is, um, you areprobably in a place now where
your kids are only listening toyou because you yell.
And that is because they'velearned to not listen to you
when you don't yell, becausethey're just waiting for you to
yell.
One of the things that we haveto remember about kids is that
kids want control over theirenvironment at basically at all
(26:39):
cost.
And the reason why they wantcontrol is because they want it
to feel predictable.
And the things that we feel wecan control feel predictable to
us.
And so kids will, if you're if aparent yells at a child, a kid
will kind of wait for them toyell because that's how they
know when the parent is beingserious.
They don't know when the parentis being serious unless the
(27:00):
parent yells, because sometimesthe parent yells.
And so kids literally learn, wescanned their brains and we've
seen this, they learn to filterout our natural patterns of
speech, normal patterns ofspeech, until we listen to them.
By the way, cats, interestingly,have evolved to do this.
They've evolved to make theirmeowing sound like baby whining.
(27:22):
And the reason that they've donethis is because it makes it
harder for us to filter out.
See, adults can filter outbackground sounds too, just like
our kids can filter out ustalking to them.
Cats can, or we can also, adultscan filter out things like the,
you know, humming of the airconditioner or, you know, the
background noise happeningoutside of a busy building,
(27:43):
right?
Like just like people walking upand down the street.
We learn to focus past thosethings and kind of block them
out, for lack of a better term.
But there are certain soundsthat we make that are very, very
physiologically difficult toblock out.
Like they just affect our brainsin different ways.
And different people havedifferent sounds.
Actually, we know that men areaffected by different sounds
than women.
(28:03):
But one of the sounds that'smost effective to everyone is
whining.
It really, really drives peoplenuts, whether they have kids or
not.
And crying, like babies crying,especially affects women, it
seems, but uh according to likethis one study that I was
reading about this, but it canaffect everybody.
And so the reason if this isanother kind of study that I
(28:25):
read, or it was a it was anarticle about a study.
I didn't actually read the studyitself, was about uh this how
cats have evolved to make thesounds that are associated with
human responsiveness.
So it's a great example when mycat comes up and she meows and
she throws me off my game.
Lots of things are happeningaround me all the time on the
(28:48):
porch.
And even though I'm ADHD, Iblock out most of them.
Cars driving past and policesirens and things.
There was a couple episodes ago,uh, a person singing outside in
the middle of the night.
It was very strange.
I didn't filter that out, butit's really hard for me to
filter out my cat because sheshe meows, and that's a hard
(29:10):
sound that's hard to filter.
Kids, it's very easy for them tofilter out our normal speech
pattern.
It's very hard for them tofilter out our yelling.
And so our kids actually becomeconditioned, right?
Like classical conditioning.
They come become conditioned towait on our yells, which means
that they only respond when weyell.
Well, the only way to fix thisis to stop yelling because
(29:30):
that's the only way that they'regonna build back the ability to
listen to us and respond.
And so instead of saying yellingis the only thing that works,
are we kidding ourselves thatour kids are only gonna listen
when they yell?
I'm here to have as evidence totell you that my kids listen
when I don't yell because I'vestopped yelling.
So it's kind of chicken or egg,it's a little circular, but
(29:52):
here's what you can do instead.
Number one, say it once.
If they're not listening, say ita second time.
If they don't listen the secondtime, then you're gonna get up,
you're gonna physically engagethem, and you're gonna move
them.
So, for example, uh, and and youcan replace the you don't have
to be intense, you can justreplace it with clarity, right?
(30:13):
So if you're you can instead ofscreaming at your kid, like,
okay, it's time to put yourshoes on, hey buddy, you need to
put your shoes on now.
Buddy, buddy, pay attention tome.
It's time to put your shoes on.
Now you can see where theintensity's coming up.
Shoes on now! Put your shoes on,we're gonna be late.
By the way, I've been exactlythere like not that long ago.
(30:35):
So I hear that.
You can literally just say,Jackson?
Making up the kid's name.
Jackson, shoes on.
I'll wait.
No response.
Wait, wait, wait.
Let him actually take it in.
Let him try and respond.
No respond.
Jackson, shoes on right now.
(30:57):
I'll wait.
So no response.
Stop saying it.
Walk over, physically move themtoward the expectation.
Say and you you don't even haveto say it a second time.
You can literally go to a a youknow, replacement behavior where
you say it once and you expectfor them to respond.
(31:19):
And it may be that they respondwith, I can't right now, I'm
working on this, or I'm doingthis, I'm just they might, you
know, uh push back.
They might have their ownautonomy, they might say no, as
we talked about in a coupleepisodes ago.
They may do, they may not likeit, right?
But they won't ignore youbecause you know that you are,
(31:40):
you know, going to carry them tothe car and put their shoes on
in the car once they're in theircar seat if they don't respond
to the you know first thing.
So you just stop, you know, sayit once or at most twice, then
physically stop talking andphysically move them toward the
expectation.
I'm not saying that you have tobe violent, but absolutely don't
(32:01):
be violent.
You can just, you know, put ahand on your shoe and put a hand
on their back and slowly movethem towards the door, and then
put shoes on, out the door,right?
You can be still gentle, butdon't become a person who gets
yourself to that place whereyou're yelling because you're
asking the same thing over andover again.
(32:21):
And that's super triggering tous.
So just get that.
I've sent her away finally.
I give her the ps, which is mysign that she's about to get
banished.
So she runs away.
Let me take a break and thenwe'll come back with our last
question.
(32:42):
Last one comes from Lauren.
Says, I don't know how toexplain this without sounding
dramatic, but sometimes when mydaughter is melting down, it
feels like my whole body is theone freaking out, not my brain.
Like my chest gets tight, and Ijust need it to stop.
And I hear myself being wayharsher than I mean to
afterward.
And then I'm like, why did I actlike that?
(33:04):
I grew up in a house whereemotions were basically a
problem to be solved as fast aspossible.
So maybe that's it.
I don't know.
Is there a way to stop thereaction before it takes over?
Because by the time I'm there,it's already too late.
Yes.
And this is where I'm gonna plugagain.
If I do the the workshop, thestop yelling workshop, Lauren,
it would be perfect for you.
(33:25):
Because what you're describingis the experience of being at
the top of the mountain andbeing pushed off down the hill.
What we need to get you to isunderstanding what it feels like
to climb the mountain beforeyou're at the top falling off.
And so you need to label thoseexperiences of tight chest, hot
(33:47):
face, fast art as physicalsensations that you can identify
rather than like viewing them asonly a response to your kids'
dysregulation.
It's kind of a complicated wayof saying it.
I probably said that the wrongway.
But basically, you need to learnthat those experiences that
(34:08):
you're having in your body, youneed to first of all learn when
they're happening so that youcan regulate yourself with a
grounding exercise, 54321grounding, where you look for
five things you can see, fourthings you can hear, three
things that you can feel, twothings you can smell, one thing
you can taste, um, or or someother grounding exercise similar
(34:30):
to that before you get to thepoint where you're snapping off
and and flying off the handle.
And then you need to label thoseexperiences in your mind so that
you can identify them and go tothat grinding exercise before
you go to yelling.
(34:51):
Let me say that maybe in aclearer way.
Learn to recognize thoseexperiences and just name them
for what they are.
So if you're feeling your chestget tight, say, I can feel my
chest getting tight.
Not you're making me mad.
You feel what I'm saying?
Learn to name I can feel myselfgetting heated up.
(35:14):
Not I'm about to, or you can sayI'm about to blow, but not this
person is just not listening andit's so frustrating to me.
You see, when we do this, whenwe identify the physical
sensations for what they are, wecan realize that it's not
actually a threat to our person.
It's not actually a threat thatour kids are having a big
(35:36):
emotion.
And eventually I'd like to getto a point where we can have our
kid have a big experience, haveour kid have big emotions, and
not immediately go to that placeof melting down dysregulation
ourselves, not immediately flyoff the handle ourselves.
So identify when you start tofeel those things and then move
(35:59):
out of that experience.
And that sounds like maybethat's not the full answer here,
but you identified it, you hitthe nail on the head.
When you were growing up in ahome, emotions felt unsafe to
your parents.
They felt unsafe, and so theywere immediately solved.
And so you probably have learnedto suppress some of your
(36:20):
emotions related to feelingescalated.
So when you start to feel upsetabout the fact that your
daughter is melting down, and oryou know, and we can go back to
Mary's original question herewith you're probably tired,
you're probably overwhelmed,you're probably touched out,
you're probably, you know,whatever.
You go to an adjacent question.
You probably have repeatedyourself five times already, and
(36:42):
and they're not listening toyou, and now you feel like you
have to resort to yelling, andnow they're you do, and then now
they're melting down, and thenyou feel overwhelmed by that.
Like there's a million differentreasons why emotions come out.
But what I find in parents whogrew up in homes where emotions
were dismissed and not processedis that they have a much harder
(37:03):
time recognizing when they'reexperiencing the physiological
symptoms of emotions that couldgive them an insight into the
fact that they are about to loseit.
And you want to get to the pointwhere you can stop before you
need it to stop.
So at this point, what you'reyou're getting all the way to
(37:27):
the point of that where you'redysregulated instead of kind of
seeing your daughter as beingdysregulated and identifying and
saying, oh wow, this personseems really frustrated right
now, but that's not a threat tome.
And uh it feels threatening toyou because emotions feel
threatening to you.
So it's a kind of like twothings happening at once.
One, you grew up in a home whereemotions were not where emotions
(37:50):
were a problem to be solved,your words, not mine.
Um, a problem to be fixed, Ithink is exactly what you said,
right?
Uh I were I grew up in a housewhere emotions were basically a
problem to be solved fast.
Your words, not mine.
That means, one, you've learnedto suppress your own emotions so
that you were not a problem foryour parents to solve.
(38:11):
Two, you are mirroring in thesame way that all of us do our
parental, what we experienced aschildren.
And mirroring that looks likeshutting down emotions for your
daughter.
And so it you you have to learnto identify your own
physiological meltdown and andfeelings before you get to that
point, because you don't want topass that on to your daughter,
(38:34):
and you don't want her to begrow up in a home where emotions
are something to be fixed.
Because right now, what itsounds like to me, and I don't
mean this to sound critical orjudgmental in any way, it sounds
to me like your daughter is kindof growing up in a house where
emotions are a problem to besolved too.
Because every time she has ameltdown, it's not her problem,
it's your problem.
It's a problem that happens inyour body.
(38:55):
And you can, again, back toneural plasticity from the
beginning of the episode.
You can do better.
Like all of us can do betterwith our brains.
We can build new neuralpathways, we can build new ways
of relating to the world and ourown emotions, and seeing our
emotions not as problems to besolved, but our superpowers.
(39:16):
Again, phrase from the book ouremotional superpowers, our ways
of experiencing the world andgetting information about the
world, becoming emotioneddetectives rather than emotion
judges, all of that stuff.
I hope that that gives you someidea.
But just name those feelings inyourself.
Name name the experiences.
(39:38):
I feel like my heart rate isspeeding up, I feel like my
chest is tight, I feel like I'mheating up, not as like this
person is coming at me becausethey're not.
Those are your maladaptiveresponses to somebody else's
dysregulation.
And you don't have to respondthat way.
You can name those things and doa grounding exercise and then
(40:01):
get to a place where you don'thave to be so triggered by
everything that your daughterdoes.
That's all the time I have forthis episode.
Uh, thank you all for listening.
I hope that you took somethingaway that you can help you to
not be as reactive, to not soundlike your parents, to not parent
(40:24):
on autopilot, to not fall backto those factory default
settings.
Just remember what I've beensaying for the whole episode.
This is a slow process.
Building neural pathways is ait's like forging a new path
through the woods.
The first time that you do it,it seems impossible.
The second time, it's a tiny biteasier.
(40:46):
By the thousandth time that youforge that new path, it's like
the trail was always there.
And that whole time, those oldneural pathways are being
pruned.
New foliage is growing in theirplaces, and soon those
disappear, and it becomesobvious which path you want to
walk down.
And it becomes natural to walkdown the right path.
(41:07):
And so that is what it is likefor you.
It's going to be a lot ofbushwhacking, it's going to be a
lot of pushing your way throughthose pathways, but I promise
it's worth it.
You'll get there.
That's what I got for you today.
Bye for now.
(41:28):
Thank you for your timelistening to the whole parent
podcast today.
I hope you got something out ofit.
I have a couple quick favors toask of you as we end the
episode.
The first one is to jump over onwhatever podcast platform that
you are listening to right nowand rate this show five stars.
You'll notice there are a lot offive-star ratings on this show,
(41:49):
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We have a ton of five-starratings and it helps our podcast
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And so it's a really quick thingthat you can do if you have 15
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And if you have an additional 30seconds, I'd love to read a
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I read all the reviews that comethrough.
(42:11):
If some if you particularly likeone part of the podcast or you
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The second thing that you can dois go and send this episode to
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Think about all the parents inyour life.
Think about your friends, yourfamily members who could use a
(42:32):
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It's vulnerable to share anepisode of a parenting podcast
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I get it.
But imagine how much better yourlife is as a result of listening
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(42:53):
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It's$5 a month or$50 a year.
Uh I don't have that many peopledoing it, and yet the people who
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(43:15):
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(43:39):
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It's not going to break thebank.
It's probably less than youspend on coffee every week.
Definitely less than you spendon coffee every week.
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(44:01):
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Thank you so much for listeningto this episode, and I'll see
(44:23):
you next time.
If you've ever heard yourself say something to
your child and thought, wait,where did that come from?
You're not alone.
So many parents have that momentwhen the phrase or the tone or
the reaction slips out and itsounds a little too familiar,
like something you grew uphearing.
And then afterward, you're leftwondering why it showed up,
(00:21):
especially when it doesn't alignwith the kind of parent that
you're trying to be.
In today's episode, we'retalking about why inherited
parenting scripts sometimesresurface under stress, what's
actually happening in our brainand nervous system when that
happens, and why this isn't asign that you're failing or
turning into your parents.
(00:41):
We'll break down why stress,fatigue, and early attachment
patterns quietly take the wheel,as they say, and what it takes
to respond differently in thosemoments when it matters the
most.
Let's get into it.
(01:05):
This is definitely an episodethat I relate to because, man,
do I ever sound like my dad whenI get stressed?
Uh, I uh talk about my dad notthat much on the pod, but
occasionally I'll mention him.
Uh, he passed away nine yearsago, almost almost nine years
(01:26):
ago.
And it's been a journey to kindof reconcile that.
And we had a pretty goodrelationship, especially at the
end of his life, but we didn'talways have the perfect, a
perfect relationship.
And certainly he did not parentin the way that I talk about.
Uh, not always.
He actually did a lot more whenI was older, but not when I was
a little kid.
And sometimes when my kids areacting up, or especially when
(01:50):
I'm stressed about work andstuff, I just start doing this
thing.
And I sound just like him, and Isay the same type of stuff, but
actually it's more the tone thananything.
And I found myself doing thattoday.
Uh, me and my son were playingvideo games, which is something
that we do together.
We are like, he'll be playing agame, and I'll be sitting next
(02:11):
to him and trying to like guidehim through it.
We're playing this game, andit's probably a little beyond
his capacity, but it's like kindof providing him good stress.
And uh again, this is somethingwe do together, and so I'm not
particularly worried about it,but it does present some
challenges where he has torespawn and restart over and
(02:33):
over when he fails at missions.
And this is, you know, it's likea Mario game, it's not anything
too too big of a deal.
But um, when he's playing thisMario game today, he just like
was not doing the right patternof buttons that that we had
worked that he was working on,and that I had seen him do like
a million times.
(02:53):
But under stress, like it justbecame more challenging for him.
And so he was struggling, andand we got so close to
completing uh this level that hehad been struggling on and this
little sequence that he had beenstruggling on.
And I know it's like not thetime when you'd think that bad
parenting comes out, but it's astress environment.
I was being competitive, he wasbeing competitive.
(03:14):
We're not playing against eachother, remember?
We're playing against thecomputer, but he's the one
holding the controls, which isits own level of frustration
because I just want to do it forhim, and he doesn't want me to
do it for him.
And he used to want me to do itfor him, but he doesn't anymore.
Now he just wants to do ithimself, and he was struggling,
and I was just like, press L andR together, push L and R
together, press and I'm gettinglike more and more like frantic,
(03:37):
just press L and R at the sametime.
SPEAKER_00 (03:39):
You're so close, it's over.
You just gotta do it reallyquick and then you're done.
Jon @WholeParent (03:44):
And he was not doing it, he just like panicked
and finally he did it in themoment, and I was like, ah,
you're stressing me out, buddy.
And he was like, I did not likethat, I did not like how
stressed you were.
I did not like this, is that wasnot fun, dad.
Don't do that again.
And I had to, you know,apologize and say, Yeah, that
was not ideal, that was notgood.
(04:06):
And I give you that examplebecause it just happened like an
hour ago, right?
But I could give you otherexamples, probably not from
today per se, but certainly fromdays previously where I just it
just comes out.
My kids say something and it'sfrustrating, and it just I just
(04:29):
snap.
And it's not even like it's inalways the worst moments, in
fact.
Like I just shared, it'ssometimes it's just in the
moments where I'm not reallythinking.
And I say stuff to my kids thatI just wish that, and like I
said, it's mostly the tone inwhich I say things.
It just I wish it wasn't a tonethat I possessed.
(04:49):
But it's something that Iinherited, it's part of my
journey.
And so I've done a lot of workto know when I'm climbing the
mountain.
If you've ever attended one ofmy How to Stop Yelling at Your
Kids workshops or breaking theyelling cycle workshops, you've
heard me talk about climbing themountain.
I've done a lot of work to tryand catch myself when I'm
climbing the mountain, but it'swhen those things happen out of
(05:10):
nowhere now that that aren'treally, like I said, they're not
really frustrating and likeanger-inducing.
It's like they just they slippast my defenses and I don't
realize that I'm escalated.
And it's probably today thereason why that happened this
evening is because of otherthings that are going on.
So uh just share somethingunrelated to parenting.
(05:31):
Uh, my computer was filled uptoday, and I part of it's that
I've been recording so manypodcasts and the way that I
record them, they're like fouror five gigs when I record them.
You're like, John, it's justaudio, it's not that big of a
deal.
No, I record all these as videojust so that someday, you know,
if I ever want to put them outon YouTube or something, I can.
And I record them very highquality because I have the
(05:52):
capability to do it, and sothere's huge files.
And then when I edit them,they're like huge again because
I edit them in video too, sothat I don't have to go back and
do that someday.
And so uh giving you lots ofinsights into what you know, how
how big my computer storage is.
But basically, I clicked onewrong button today and I froze
up my computer.
(06:12):
I accidentally downloaded like apatch of files that completely
exhausted my storage.
And then in trying to fix it, Iaccidentally deleted basically
everything related to wholeparent that I'd worked on for
the last three years.
Forever.
And some of the stuff I hadsaved other places or whatever.
(06:33):
And you might say, like, John,isn't this all backed up?
Like, some of it, but I haven'tdone that as much as I ought to.
Certainly have not been nearlyas diligent as I need to be.
Partially it's because the waythat I have stuff, I way that I
back stuff up.
Um, usually the I bypassed likemy safeguards in order to do
this.
And I was just kind of beingcheap.
(06:54):
I just didn't want to pay foradditional cloud storage, and
that really psyched me up.
I also have had some issues withthe marketing company that I've
been working with.
So there's a lot of likeunrelated to parenting stuff
that has come out and has rearedits head.
And I think that's sometimes whyI can go zero to 60 on really
(07:16):
simple, easy things is becausethat's all going on behind the
scenes.
So anyway, um I want to jump in.
I know that that's been a superlong intro.
I want to jump into our firstquestion.
It comes from Mary, and I'mgonna kind of go quickly today
because I don't have a lot oftime to record, but I think that
that maybe that'll make meanswer these questions in a
little bit more of a succinctway.
So maybe it's a good thing.
(07:37):
My first question for Mary says,I keep catching myself saying
things like, I swore that Iwould never say, literally
hearing my mom's voice come outof my mouth, stuff like, I'm not
asking, I'm telling, or what'swrong with you right now?
Which I hate.
And then the second it's out, Ifeel sick.
It's usually at the end of theday when everyone's loud and I'm
(07:58):
touched out, and myfive-year-old's asking 900
questions, my two-year-old ismelting down on the floor, and I
just snap.
I don't even think those things.
I certainly don't believe them,but there they are.
Is this just what happens whenyou're tired?
Or does this mean that I'msecretly more like my parents
than I want to admit?
Mary.
Uh, do you know that in Hebrewand Aramaic, the word Mary, the
(08:23):
name Mary, the well, it's notactually Mary, but like the name
that we translate into Mary forthe Bible means bitter.
And I don't want you to bebitter, Mary.
I do not want you to be bitterbecause it is not what you
believe, and it's not thatyou're more like your parents
than you think.
It is that your nervous systemreacts viscerally to certain
(08:46):
types of stimulation, and you goback into just patterns of
mirroring what has been modeled.
And I don't think that it meansthat you're like them.
I think that it means that youstill are building new neural
pathways.
And that is not uncommon forparents.
It's certainly the truth for me,and I have been doing this for
(09:08):
nine years.
Sounds like you've been doingthis for about five years.
You have a five-year-old and atwo-year-old, which means really
you've been only been doing itfor like four years, right?
Because you haven't, or eventhree years, because you haven't
really had to do the parentingwork of like emotional
regulation and discipline untilyour kid is two or three years
old.
And so I would say that doing itfor three years means that you
(09:31):
still have a lot of growth thathas to happen.
And it's not growth in thisphilosophy of parenting, and
it's not growth in the ethics ofparenting.
It sounds like it's growth inthe practicality of rewiring
neural pathways to responddifferently.
And so I have a brain hack thatyou can use that I use because
this is almost exactly what Iwas talking about in the intro.
(09:53):
It's almost exactly what I wastalking that I talk about all
the time and break the yellingcycle.
Uh, and it's that you we respondby just do going back into our
default factory defaultparenting settings when we are
tired, when we are overwhelmed,when we are overworked, when we
lose all the files on ourcomputer, when we are having
(10:15):
trouble with a company thatwe're working with.
We go into kind of our our mostbase level.
And that is the place wherestuff comes out that we don't
really mean.
And I don't want to say thatyou're always going to do that,
but those neural pathways thatcome from our childhood do run
(10:38):
very, very deep.
And so this is not somethingthat's going to change in a day
or a week or a month or eventhree years or five years.
This is something that you'regoing to continually work on.
And the the key here, as I giveyou the brain hack, is that you
want to practice this.
And then you want to track yourprogress, right?
Anything that you care about,you should measure.
(11:01):
So track your progress literallyin your notes app on your phone.
How many times did I yell at mykids today?
Track your progress and thentrack it longitudinally over
time.
And what you'll notice is thatyou're not going to stop yelling
at your kids altogether in thefirst day with this or with
anything.
But when you look back, you'llrealize, boy, I yell a lot less.
(11:25):
Also important to note is thatyour kids are at an age where
they're you now have two kidswho are triggering you.
And this means that there'stwice as much to be triggered
about.
And so also, you know, the thiskind of multi multi-factor here.
It's not only that you are goingto get better at being triggered
(11:47):
and respond, also at the sametime, there are going to be more
things that trigger you.
So it's going to be just a danceof retraining your nervous
system to respond differently.
(16:18):
And that is a challenge, but itis totally a challenge that you
are up for.
And I can just tell by the waythat you're saying this.
So just understand, first andforemost, you're not your
parents.
You don't, you're in, andbecause of neuroplasticity, I
should have said that earlier,because of neuroplasticity, your
brain is not fixed.
You can grow in this way.
(16:40):
Like you can actually rewireyour brain to respond
differently the first time, butit's going to take intentional
effort, and that's not going tohappen overnight.
So, what I would do if I wasyou, because I I am you, what I
do, because I am you, Mary, um,is I try and drop my voice,
(17:01):
first of all.
I try and just change the way inwhich I talk.
Because, and and I think that Idon't say this enough.
What you say is important.
How you say it is moreimportant.
What you say is important, buthow you say it is even more
important.
Let me give you an examplebefore I go on.
If I said it's time to it's timeto leave.
(17:25):
It's time to leave.
It's time to leave.
It's time to leave.
All of those sound different andthey're the same words.
Those all mean different things.
Like, it's time to leave meanswe're going to something
exciting.
Get ready, get your shoes on,it's gonna be great.
It's time to leave means, orit's time to leave means, you
(17:49):
know, maybe there's gonna be alittle disappointment about
leaving, but it is time to go,and I'm gonna hold this
boundary.
And if you want to listen to theepisode about boundary holding,
that was the last one.
Sometimes they're gonna befrustrated about it.
It's okay.
You can just listen to the lastepisode, even if your kid hates
you in the moment, they won'thate you forever.
It's time to leave.
That's just a way to trigger akid, right?
(18:11):
That's frustration, that'sanger.
That is going to immediatelysend them into their fight or
flight.
So all of these are the samephrase, but how we say it
matters so much more.
And so I think over time you canrewire your brain to change what
you say.
I think right now, the moreimportant thing is to rewire
(18:33):
your brain and how you speak.
And some of it is that we workourselves up.
If we start with aggression, weare signaling to our brain that
we are in an aggressive posture,and more of the negative phrases
are going to follow.
Not just the phrasing, but thephrases.
And so as we kind of spiral intoour cortisol stress sympathetic
(18:57):
nervous response to our kids,when we're in fight or as in
fight or flight, when we're inour fight mode and our polyvagal
red, what's occurring in ourbrain is that we're actually
priming ourselves to say themore aggressive thing.
This is also good, by the way,parent uh partner advice.
This is good marriage advicetoo.
(19:18):
So we're gonna when we are ingoing into our relationship with
our kid, we are going to stepone drop our voice to below our
normal speaking register.
So if this is how I'm talkingnormally, right?
If I started to get louder, andI can see myself peeking on my
(19:41):
microphone when I do this, if Istarted to get louder, that's
above my normal speakingregister as far as loudness,
decibel level.
And if I just speak a little bitquieter, this is below.
So step one, go below, aim low.
Step two, dodgeball reference,by the way.
(20:05):
Speak more slowly.
We tend to speed up when we talkto kids when we're frustrated,
and their brain doesn't speed upto compensate, and so we need to
speak more slowly.
So you can say the same thing,but you're gonna slow your
speech literally by half.
(20:27):
Just speak more slowly andquietly.
That may sound strange, butthree things are going to
happen.
Thing number one, you'reprobably not actually gonna
speak that slow or that low,even if that's what you're
aiming for.
(20:47):
Because you're naturally whenyou get triggered and frustrated
because it's the end of the dayand married, I everything that
you said here I relate to.
It's the end of the day, yournine-year-old or your uh
five-year-old's asking you 900questions, and usually it's just
why, why, why, why, why?
And your two-year-old is meltingdown because they're exhausted
and you're all touched out.
I have been exactly where youare.
(21:08):
Although I tend to not get sotouched out, I'm a very
touchy-feely person.
My wife, though, gets realtouched out.
Mostly just when it's metouching her, to be honest,
though.
She can she can usually tolerateone of my kids, except for when
they sit on her while she'seating.
Anyway.
Um, so drop your voice belownormal register.
And when you're escalated, it'sprobably gonna raise up a little
(21:31):
bit, but by intentionally goinglower, you're probably gonna
wind up just at the normal rangeor a little bit below it, and
that's the goal.
You're going to try and speak athalf the tempo.
I can't even do it when I'mdoing the podcast, but even
trying to speak at half thetempo, you're gonna speak faster
than half the tempo.
(21:52):
This is another place wherewe're aiming one place, and so
the result is you wind upspeaking at a normal volume or a
little bit, you know, 90% ofnormal volume, and you wind up
speaking at 80% of normal speedbecause you tried to speak at
50% of normal volume and 50% ofnormal speed.
So that's thing one.
(22:13):
You're just gonna speak better.
Thing two, your kid, you're notgoing to trigger your kid, which
means that they're not going torespond by being triggered by
going into their fight or flightpolyvagal red, which means that
they're not gonna furthertrigger you.
So you're going to break thisthe nervous system response and
kind of feedback loop thatyou're creating with your kid.
(22:36):
So they're gonna respond better,which is gonna make you feel
more calm because now they'reresponding, and most parents
feel more calm when their kidstarts to comply.
Now, I'm not saying your kid'salways gonna comply with you,
but they're way more likely tocomply in a way that works well
if you don't send them deeperinto their fight or flight
response, like especiallylong-term thinking.
(22:58):
Third thing that's gonna happenis that by intentionally doing
this for you and for your kid,you are gonna activate your
vagus nerve in your tenthcranial nerve, not just theirs,
but yours.
And when you start to calm downand start to regulate, then it's
gonna make you feel like you'remore in control of what you're
(23:19):
saying in your tone.
So by intentionally doing this,right, it's kind of like fake it
until you make it.
You're faking it, and then yourbrain is picking up on those
things like, okay, we don't haveto freak out anymore.
Let's regulate down.
So this is just a practicalstep-by-step, exactly what I
would do because I feel whatyou're saying and I get it, and
it's normal.
And you're not turning into yourmom, I promise.
(23:42):
But you are still gonna say thesame stuff sometimes because
that's your factory defaultsettings.
None of us get to choose ourfactory default settings, we
only get to choose what we dowith it.
Good news, we get to rewire.
That's called neuroplasticity.
And how do we rewire?
Exactly what I just told you.
Okay, next question comes fromJason.
(24:03):
And uh Jason says, This mightsound bad, but I feel like my
kids just don't listen until Iget kind of intense.
I don't want to yell, but alsowhen they come when when I talk
calm, they just ignore me.
Then I hear myself sounding likemy dad, real sharp, real
serious, and suddenly they'repaying attention.
(24:25):
I hate it, but it also works.
So I don't know what to do withthis.
Are we just kidding ourselves,thinking that kids will listen
without fear?
Or am I missing something here?
Jason, you are not missingsomething, not at all.
You are experiencing uh the doomloop of yelling at your kids.
(24:47):
And that is, and I'm not sayingyelling, right?
Because you're just sayingintensity, but I'm just saying
yelling.
I'm saying yelling.
You're not saying yelling, I'msaying yelling.
The doom you loop of yelling atyour kids is that when you yell
at your kids, they will stopdoing whatever they're doing
because they are so afraid ofyour yelling at them.
(25:09):
And so because they're so afraidof your yelling at them, they
stop doing what they're doingand you feel like it just
worked.
What I kind of highlight in thebook, my book, Punishment for
your parenting, in the firstchapter, is that while yelling
and other forms of punishmentgain temporary short-term
compliance, they shut off thepart of our child's brain that
(25:30):
learns, which then means thatour kids wind up doing the same
stuff that we just yelled atthem at about again and again
and again.
And I apologize, my cat isreally needy today.
She's just all over me andmeowing.
And I don't know exactly whatshe's needy about.
Perhaps we've locked her foodaway from her again.
Her she's fed uh behind thisdoor that sometimes gets closed
(25:52):
when my kids are playing.
So she may just be annoying meuntil I go downstairs.
And I want to yell at her, but Ialso know that that's not
effective cat ownership.
I don't want to wake up my kids.
So what do you do about thisdoom spiral?
Well, you have to be lesseffective or feel less power in
your parenting for a shortperiod of time in order for your
(26:15):
kids to listen to you again.
So the truth is, um, you areprobably in a place now where
your kids are only listening toyou because you yell.
And that is because they'velearned to not listen to you
when you don't yell, becausethey're just waiting for you to
yell.
One of the things that we haveto remember about kids is that
kids want control over theirenvironment at basically at all
(26:39):
cost.
And the reason why they wantcontrol is because they want it
to feel predictable.
And the things that we feel wecan control feel predictable to
us.
And so kids will, if you're if aparent yells at a child, a kid
will kind of wait for them toyell because that's how they
know when the parent is beingserious.
They don't know when the parentis being serious unless the
(27:00):
parent yells, because sometimesthe parent yells.
And so kids literally learn, wescanned their brains and we've
seen this, they learn to filterout our natural patterns of
speech, normal patterns ofspeech, until we listen to them.
By the way, cats, interestingly,have evolved to do this.
They've evolved to make theirmeowing sound like baby whining.
(27:22):
And the reason that they've donethis is because it makes it
harder for us to filter out.
See, adults can filter outbackground sounds too, just like
our kids can filter out ustalking to them.
Cats can, or we can also, adultscan filter out things like the,
you know, humming of the airconditioner or, you know, the
background noise happeningoutside of a busy building,
(27:43):
right?
Like just like people walking upand down the street.
We learn to focus past thosethings and kind of block them
out, for lack of a better term.
But there are certain soundsthat we make that are very, very
physiologically difficult toblock out.
Like they just affect our brainsin different ways.
And different people havedifferent sounds.
Actually, we know that men areaffected by different sounds
than women.
(28:03):
But one of the sounds that'smost effective to everyone is
whining.
It really, really drives peoplenuts, whether they have kids or
not.
And crying, like babies crying,especially affects women, it
seems, but uh according to likethis one study that I was
reading about this, but it canaffect everybody.
And so the reason if this isanother kind of study that I
(28:25):
read, or it was a it was anarticle about a study.
I didn't actually read the studyitself, was about uh this how
cats have evolved to make thesounds that are associated with
human responsiveness.
So it's a great example when mycat comes up and she meows and
she throws me off my game.
Lots of things are happeningaround me all the time on the
(28:48):
porch.
And even though I'm ADHD, Iblock out most of them.
Cars driving past and policesirens and things.
There was a couple episodes ago,uh, a person singing outside in
the middle of the night.
It was very strange.
I didn't filter that out, butit's really hard for me to
filter out my cat because sheshe meows, and that's a hard
(29:10):
sound that's hard to filter.
Kids, it's very easy for them tofilter out our normal speech
pattern.
It's very hard for them tofilter out our yelling.
And so our kids actually becomeconditioned, right?
Like classical conditioning.
They come become conditioned towait on our yells, which means
that they only respond when weyell.
Well, the only way to fix thisis to stop yelling because
(29:30):
that's the only way that they'regonna build back the ability to
listen to us and respond.
And so instead of saying yellingis the only thing that works,
are we kidding ourselves thatour kids are only gonna listen
when they yell?
I'm here to have as evidence totell you that my kids listen
when I don't yell because I'vestopped yelling.
So it's kind of chicken or egg,it's a little circular, but
(29:52):
here's what you can do instead.
Number one, say it once.
If they're not listening, say ita second time.
If they don't listen the secondtime, then you're gonna get up,
you're gonna physically engagethem, and you're gonna move
them.
So, for example, uh, and and youcan replace the you don't have
to be intense, you can justreplace it with clarity, right?
(30:13):
So if you're you can instead ofscreaming at your kid, like,
okay, it's time to put yourshoes on, hey buddy, you need to
put your shoes on now.
Buddy, buddy, pay attention tome.
It's time to put your shoes on.
Now you can see where theintensity's coming up.
Shoes on now! Put your shoes on,we're gonna be late.
By the way, I've been exactlythere like not that long ago.
(30:35):
So I hear that.
You can literally just say,Jackson?
Making up the kid's name.
Jackson, shoes on.
I'll wait.
No response.
Wait, wait, wait.
Let him actually take it in.
Let him try and respond.
No respond.
Jackson, shoes on right now.
(30:57):
I'll wait.
So no response.
Stop saying it.
Walk over, physically move themtoward the expectation.
Say and you you don't even haveto say it a second time.
You can literally go to a a youknow, replacement behavior where
you say it once and you expectfor them to respond.
(31:19):
And it may be that they respondwith, I can't right now, I'm
working on this, or I'm doingthis, I'm just they might, you
know, uh push back.
They might have their ownautonomy, they might say no, as
we talked about in a coupleepisodes ago.
They may do, they may not likeit, right?
But they won't ignore youbecause you know that you are,
(31:40):
you know, going to carry them tothe car and put their shoes on
in the car once they're in theircar seat if they don't respond
to the you know first thing.
So you just stop, you know, sayit once or at most twice, then
physically stop talking andphysically move them toward the
expectation.
I'm not saying that you have tobe violent, but absolutely don't
(32:01):
be violent.
You can just, you know, put ahand on your shoe and put a hand
on their back and slowly movethem towards the door, and then
put shoes on, out the door,right?
You can be still gentle, butdon't become a person who gets
yourself to that place whereyou're yelling because you're
asking the same thing over andover again.
(32:21):
And that's super triggering tous.
So just get that.
I've sent her away finally.
I give her the ps, which is mysign that she's about to get
banished.
So she runs away.
Let me take a break and thenwe'll come back with our last
question.
(32:42):
Last one comes from Lauren.
Says, I don't know how toexplain this without sounding
dramatic, but sometimes when mydaughter is melting down, it
feels like my whole body is theone freaking out, not my brain.
Like my chest gets tight, and Ijust need it to stop.
And I hear myself being wayharsher than I mean to
afterward.
And then I'm like, why did I actlike that?
(33:04):
I grew up in a house whereemotions were basically a
problem to be solved as fast aspossible.
So maybe that's it.
I don't know.
Is there a way to stop thereaction before it takes over?
Because by the time I'm there,it's already too late.
Yes.
And this is where I'm gonna plugagain.
If I do the the workshop, thestop yelling workshop, Lauren,
it would be perfect for you.
(33:25):
Because what you're describingis the experience of being at
the top of the mountain andbeing pushed off down the hill.
What we need to get you to isunderstanding what it feels like
to climb the mountain beforeyou're at the top falling off.
And so you need to label thoseexperiences of tight chest, hot
(33:47):
face, fast art as physicalsensations that you can identify
rather than like viewing them asonly a response to your kids'
dysregulation.
It's kind of a complicated wayof saying it.
I probably said that the wrongway.
But basically, you need to learnthat those experiences that
(34:08):
you're having in your body, youneed to first of all learn when
they're happening so that youcan regulate yourself with a
grounding exercise, 54321grounding, where you look for
five things you can see, fourthings you can hear, three
things that you can feel, twothings you can smell, one thing
you can taste, um, or or someother grounding exercise similar
(34:30):
to that before you get to thepoint where you're snapping off
and and flying off the handle.
And then you need to label thoseexperiences in your mind so that
you can identify them and go tothat grinding exercise before
you go to yelling.
(34:51):
Let me say that maybe in aclearer way.
Learn to recognize thoseexperiences and just name them
for what they are.
So if you're feeling your chestget tight, say, I can feel my
chest getting tight.
Not you're making me mad.
You feel what I'm saying?
Learn to name I can feel myselfgetting heated up.
(35:14):
Not I'm about to, or you can sayI'm about to blow, but not this
person is just not listening andit's so frustrating to me.
You see, when we do this, whenwe identify the physical
sensations for what they are, wecan realize that it's not
actually a threat to our person.
It's not actually a threat thatour kids are having a big
(35:36):
emotion.
And eventually I'd like to getto a point where we can have our
kid have a big experience, haveour kid have big emotions, and
not immediately go to that placeof melting down dysregulation
ourselves, not immediately flyoff the handle ourselves.
So identify when you start tofeel those things and then move
(35:59):
out of that experience.
And that sounds like maybethat's not the full answer here,
but you identified it, you hitthe nail on the head.
When you were growing up in ahome, emotions felt unsafe to
your parents.
They felt unsafe, and so theywere immediately solved.
And so you probably have learnedto suppress some of your
(36:20):
emotions related to feelingescalated.
So when you start to feel upsetabout the fact that your
daughter is melting down, and oryou know, and we can go back to
Mary's original question herewith you're probably tired,
you're probably overwhelmed,you're probably touched out,
you're probably, you know,whatever.
You go to an adjacent question.
You probably have repeatedyourself five times already, and
(36:42):
and they're not listening toyou, and now you feel like you
have to resort to yelling, andnow they're you do, and then now
they're melting down, and thenyou feel overwhelmed by that.
Like there's a million differentreasons why emotions come out.
But what I find in parents whogrew up in homes where emotions
were dismissed and not processedis that they have a much harder
(37:03):
time recognizing when they'reexperiencing the physiological
symptoms of emotions that couldgive them an insight into the
fact that they are about to loseit.
And you want to get to the pointwhere you can stop before you
need it to stop.
So at this point, what you'reyou're getting all the way to
(37:27):
the point of that where you'redysregulated instead of kind of
seeing your daughter as beingdysregulated and identifying and
saying, oh wow, this personseems really frustrated right
now, but that's not a threat tome.
And uh it feels threatening toyou because emotions feel
threatening to you.
So it's a kind of like twothings happening at once.
One, you grew up in a home whereemotions were not where emotions
(37:50):
were a problem to be solved,your words, not mine.
Um, a problem to be fixed, Ithink is exactly what you said,
right?
Uh I were I grew up in a housewhere emotions were basically a
problem to be solved fast.
Your words, not mine.
That means, one, you've learnedto suppress your own emotions so
that you were not a problem foryour parents to solve.
(38:11):
Two, you are mirroring in thesame way that all of us do our
parental, what we experienced aschildren.
And mirroring that looks likeshutting down emotions for your
daughter.
And so it you you have to learnto identify your own
physiological meltdown and andfeelings before you get to that
point, because you don't want topass that on to your daughter,
(38:34):
and you don't want her to begrow up in a home where emotions
are something to be fixed.
Because right now, what itsounds like to me, and I don't
mean this to sound critical orjudgmental in any way, it sounds
to me like your daughter is kindof growing up in a house where
emotions are a problem to besolved too.
Because every time she has ameltdown, it's not her problem,
it's your problem.
It's a problem that happens inyour body.
(38:55):
And you can, again, back toneural plasticity from the
beginning of the episode.
You can do better.
Like all of us can do betterwith our brains.
We can build new neuralpathways, we can build new ways
of relating to the world and ourown emotions, and seeing our
emotions not as problems to besolved, but our superpowers.
(39:16):
Again, phrase from the book ouremotional superpowers, our ways
of experiencing the world andgetting information about the
world, becoming emotioneddetectives rather than emotion
judges, all of that stuff.
I hope that that gives you someidea.
But just name those feelings inyourself.
Name name the experiences.
(39:38):
I feel like my heart rate isspeeding up, I feel like my
chest is tight, I feel like I'mheating up, not as like this
person is coming at me becausethey're not.
Those are your maladaptiveresponses to somebody else's
dysregulation.
And you don't have to respondthat way.
You can name those things and doa grounding exercise and then
(40:01):
get to a place where you don'thave to be so triggered by
everything that your daughterdoes.
That's all the time I have forthis episode.
Uh, thank you all for listening.
I hope that you took somethingaway that you can help you to
not be as reactive, to not soundlike your parents, to not parent
(40:24):
on autopilot, to not fall backto those factory default
settings.
Just remember what I've beensaying for the whole episode.
This is a slow process.
Building neural pathways is ait's like forging a new path
through the woods.
The first time that you do it,it seems impossible.
The second time, it's a tiny biteasier.
(40:46):
By the thousandth time that youforge that new path, it's like
the trail was always there.
And that whole time, those oldneural pathways are being
pruned.
New foliage is growing in theirplaces, and soon those
disappear, and it becomesobvious which path you want to
walk down.
And it becomes natural to walkdown the right path.
(41:07):
And so that is what it is likefor you.
It's going to be a lot ofbushwhacking, it's going to be a
lot of pushing your way throughthose pathways, but I promise
it's worth it.
You'll get there.
That's what I got for you today.
Bye for now.
(41:28):
Thank you for your timelistening to the whole parent
podcast today.
I hope you got something out ofit.
I have a couple quick favors toask of you as we end the
episode.
The first one is to jump over onwhatever podcast platform that
you are listening to right nowand rate this show five stars.
You'll notice there are a lot offive-star ratings on this show,
(41:49):
whether that's on Spotify orApple Music or Apple Podcasts.
We have a ton of five-starratings and it helps our podcast
get out to more people thanalmost any other parenting
podcast out there.
And so it's a really quick thingthat you can do if you have 15
or 20 seconds.
And if you have an additional 30seconds, I'd love to read a
review from you.
I read all the reviews that comethrough.
(42:11):
If some if you particularly likeone part of the podcast or you
like when I talk about somethingor whatever, imagine that you're
writing that review directly tome.
The second thing that you can dois go and send this episode to
somebody in your life who youthink could use it.
Think about all the parents inyour life.
Think about your friends, yourfamily members who could use a
(42:32):
little bit of help parenting.
It's vulnerable to share anepisode of a parenting podcast
with them.
I get it.
But imagine how much better yourlife is as a result of listening
to this podcast, of following meon social media, of getting the
emails that I send out.
You can share that with someoneelse too.
And so I encourage you, just goover, shoot them a quick text,
(42:53):
share this episode with them, orshare another episode that you
feel like is particularlyrelevant to them.
The last thing you can do is godown to the link show notes at
the bottom.
And like I said, in themid-roll, you can subscribe on
Substack.
It's$5 a month or$50 a year.
Uh I don't have that many peopledoing it, and yet the people who
are doing it have made thispossible.
(43:15):
And so if you like this episode,if you like all of the episodes,
if you want them to continue,the only way that I can keep
making them is through donorsupport, free will donations to
the podcast.
Please, please, please, please,as you're thinking about the end
of this year, as you're thinkingabout your charitable giving, I
know I'm not a 501c3.
You can't write it off on yourtaxes, but if you'd like to give
(43:39):
me a little gift to just saythank you for what you've done
this year, the best way to dothat is over on Substack.
Again,$5 a month,$50 a year.
It's not going to break thebank.
It's probably less than youspend on coffee every week.
Definitely less than you spendon coffee every week.
Maybe uh less than you spend onalmost anything, right?
Five bucks a month is very, verysmall, but it goes a long way
(44:01):
when it's multiplied by all ofthe different people who listen
to the podcast, sending thatover to me.
I get all of that money.
It's just my way of being ableto produce the podcast, spend
money on equipment, spend moneyon subscription fees, hosting
fees for the podcast, all ofthat stuff.
Email server fees, all that.
So if you're willing.
to do that, I would love it.
Thank you so much for listeningto this episode, and I'll see
(44:23):
you next time.
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