Picky Eaters (with @Kids.Eat.in.Color) #020

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The resource Jennifer mentioned:
Picky Eater Screener

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Have you ever felt like you're in a mealtime showdown with your toddler, armed with nothing but a spoon and the "wrong" color cup? Me too. Every day.

Today I'm joined by Jennifer Anderson of Kids Eat in Color to arm you with the strategies you need to turn mealtime battles into family building fun. We dissect the mystery behind toddler diets, discussing ways to make eating fun and how parents can lead by example to encourage adventurous food choices. This isn't just about getting peas onto their plate; it's about setting the foundation for a lifetime of healthy eating.

Let's be real—feeding a picky eater can feel like trying to solve a Rubik's cube blindfolded (where the colors change every meal). Jennifer and I get personal, sharing our own experiences with the challenges of nurturing diverse palates. We tackle the rainbow of eating behaviors from choosy to chowhound and offer a fresh perspective on introducing new foods. This chat goes beyond the plate, delving into how to build a positive body relationship with your kids, ensuring they grow up with confidence in their food choices and themselves.

Forget what you've heard about sugar and hyperactivity, or the myths that red dye is the root of all meltdowns. We're here to debunk these and other common misconceptions about kids' diets. Plus, we're dishing out practical tips like using micro portions and engaging kids in meal prep to encourage a more varied diet. By the end of our conversation, you'll have a toolkit filled with strategies to support your child in developing a healthy, resilient relationship with food—one joyful bite at a time. Join us on this culinary adventure and watch your little ones flourish into wholehearted, healthy eaters.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Just make it light, right, Because the more fun kids
have, the more they relax.
And when they're relaxedthey're less likely to be
anxious.
And when they're less anxious,they're more likely to eat
something.
And they're watching you andthey're having fun and you just
ate this green bean in a reallyfunny way.
Maybe they want to do that too.
Do not underestimate the powerof a little bit of fun, and

(00:22):
quote playing with food.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
Hello and welcome to the Whole Parent Podcast.
My name is John.
I am at Whole Parent on all ofthe social medias and this is a
podcast all about how to raisekids who grow up to be resilient
adults, who are resilient askids, and to do so with
confidence, because that is whatmost parents are lacking these
days.
All of us go on social media,or I guess some of us.
If you're not on social media,you're probably doing great, but

(01:01):
for those of us who go onsocial media, we constantly see
all of these parents who seemlike they have everything
figured out, and I'm here totell you that most of us do not.
In fact, none of us have it allfigured out, and this is a
podcast that makes us parentmaybe a little bit more
effectively, maybe do things alittle bit easier.
And this episode, boy do.

(01:24):
I have a treat for you todaybecause I'm going to be joined
by Jennifer Anderson, who is thecreator of Kids Eat in Color, a
social media account.
She's a registered dietitianand she focuses on toddlers and
eating and getting toddlers toeat healthy, well-rounded diets,

(01:45):
not demonizing food, creatingpositive, lifelong relationships
with food and eating, and shehas so many amazing tips for us
today.
She's going to dispel somemyths around toddler eating.
She's going to give us somegood advice.
We talk about everything allthe way up to red dye.
Is that going to make your kidgo nuts and bounce off the walls
?
Eating ice cream before bedtime?

(02:07):
Is that going to make your kidnot be able to fall asleep?
How do I get my toddlers to eatbroccoli?
Literally all of that covered,and this is a really important
episode for me.
Let me just say that, and thereason for that is that this is
one of my biggest struggles, andso if you're like I don't know
how to get my kid to eatanything other than granola bars
and pancakes and mac and cheeseand chicken nuggets, you're

(02:29):
right where I am.
I am in the midst of this andI'm actually recording this
intro a couple days after I didthe interview with Jennifer.
And let me just tell you, inthe last five or six days,
whenever I did that interview,it has been absolutely
game-changing implementing thestuff that we're going to talk
about in this episode.
So if you are like me, if youstruggle to have positive

(02:52):
mealtime experiences where yourkids eat diverse foods, colorful
foods, fruits, vegetables, notjust kind of a ton of sugar and
carbs, then this is the rightepisode for you and I can't wait
for you to hear from Jenniferand learn, like I did, and
implement this stuff in your ownparenting journey Because, like
I said, it is absolutelytransformative.

(03:14):
Okay, I'm not going to breakthis episode in the middle to
tell you about anything else,but at the end of the episode I
am going to tell you how you canconnect even better with whole
parent.
Going forward, let's get toJennifer.
Hello and welcome to the WholeParent podcast.
I am so excited for thisepisode.
We are going to be joined byJennifer Anderson.

(03:35):
I'm a Swede.
You'd think that I wouldn'ttrip over Anderson.
Actually, that was.
I don't know.
We haven't talked about this,but that was actually my family
name before they came over offthe boat.
They changed their name toFogle.
Later on they were Anderson's,so you're one of my kinsmen,
that's right although I marriedinto it.
So your husband is one of mykinsmen that's right, um, but

(03:58):
you know that we'll count it,and uh, yeah, so Jennifer
Anderson man I almost did it whois better known as Kids Eat in
Color on all the social mediaplatforms.
Jennifer, how are you doingtoday?

Speaker 1 (04:10):
I am great.
Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
Yeah, for the super long conversation before we even
started recording.
You know, in the parentingspace it's so fun Like so many
of us get along so well thatpeople are like, oh, it's so
cool that you had that person on.
I'm like, oh man, you think itwas cool, it was like the most
fun that I had all week.
So, yeah, so it's, it's beengood.
But we're here talking aboutkids eating and I've done one

(04:35):
podcast kind of solo on this.
But I'm going to be totally onhonest this is probably my
biggest parenting.
Like.
I don't want to say weakness,insecurity.
I'll say that I've sharedopenly how I'm still in the
process of recovering from beinga yeller and trying not to yell

(04:56):
at my kids.
I've shared openly about a lotof my parenting struggles, but
one that I kind of maybe hide isthat we really struggle to help
our kids to eat in color.
Our kids basically eat a colorright now.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
Brown, brown or white .

Speaker 2 (05:13):
Sometimes brown and white.
I'll give myself a white rice,you know, but yeah, brown, a lot
of Z bars If you're familiarwith those.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
My son discovered them.
It's like if he had it his way,he would literally only eat Z
bars.
If you're familiar with those,my son discovered them.
This is like if he had it hisway, he would literally only eat
Z bars.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
The problem is my kids do have it their way.
So you know, I yeah.
So this is like totaltransparency.
This I kind of was this waywith um consagra, the Dr
Consagra on sleep.
That's been a struggle for ustoo.
But but, man, I have been soexcited to get you on this
podcast because this is going tobe the episode where I ask all
my questions.

Speaker 1 (05:49):
Yeah, so let's dive in, because you know what I have
all the answers and everythingI will say today absolutely
works 100 of the time with myown children that's a crazy
endorsement.
I'm kidding.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (06:03):
I'm completely sarcastic because I got into
this because, 100%, I had thehardest time of my life feeding
my kids, and I was a dieticianand you can only imagine how I
felt about that.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
No, I, I told okay, so I'm glad that you're.
I was like, I was like, oh mygosh, is she being serious?
Okay, so you're, you struggletoo.
So is this?
This is just let's.
Let's just hit themisconceptions right up at the
front.
Kids are picky eaters, true orfalse?

Speaker 1 (06:36):
True you.
As we go through thisconversation, you will see that
I'm not like a true, false sortof person.
I'm not a black and white sortof person.
I think there's a whole rainbowin between black and white.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
So, so, in other words so many many many kids are
picky.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
Um, yeah, many kids are picky.
Not all kids are picky.
Likely, if you're a parent, youknow someone, you've got a
friend whose kid is like who'syou know kid eats, like, oh my
gosh, all I did was I just didbaby lead, lead weaning, and
then my kids, they, they eateverything and I'm like, okay,

(07:13):
tell me more.
Or the friend whose kid sleeps14 hours the day after they come
from the home, from thehospital, and like that my
brother.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
He's got five kids.
I don't know what he's doing,but they all just sleep all the
time.

Speaker 1 (07:27):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (07:29):
They have to like wake up their kid.
They'll have like they actuallyhave a new baby right now, but
they're uh, him and his wife hada baby who's like the exact
same age as my youngest and himand his wife they were like, oh
yeah, we have to like wake himup to eat.
He like won't wake up to eatand like that's like our biggest
concern.
I'm like come on, dude.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
I'm so sorry.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
Yeah, right, so yeah.
So there are picky eaters.
There are some kids who willeat, who will eat anything?
Would you say that the majority, I mean you, you have what?
2 million followers, something.
Yeah, I mean this is a big deal.
It's a big deal.
This is not like I'm alone andstruggling with this, right.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
No, In fact, I started Kids in Color because I
was standing in mypediatrician's office with my
cute chubby nine-month-old thatI was over the moon with and she
looks at me and she's like he'snot gaining weight.
And I was, like you know, overthe moon with and she looks at
me and she's like he's notgaining weight, and I was like,
wait a second.
First of all, I almost fell onthe floor because how, how is it
possible?

(08:31):
I'm a dietitian.
Doesn't my kid know I'm adietitian?
No, he doesn't care.

Speaker 2 (08:39):
He doesn't care what I do.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
Doesn't he know how this is going to affect my
reputation?
No, he doesn't care whatsoever.
Um, you know, he's like hey, Ijust learned how to walk, why
eat?
Uh?
So that's when I was like, waita second.
Feeding kids must not be likewhat I learned in dietician
school, which is like kids willjust eat and stuff.
Um, no, it's not that easy.
And then my second son, youknow, right off the bat, started

(09:01):
showing all the signs of beinga really complicated, extreme
picky eater.
And so I I mean I stood, I wasstanding in my kitchen, thinking
, okay, I've got this pickyeater, I have my son.
And by that time I'd reallyspecialized my knowledge in
child feeding so that I couldkeep my, my first son alive.
And you know, I'm standingthere and I'm thinking I cannot

(09:21):
be the only parent struggling.
I can't be, and I started anInstagram page a couple months
after.
I had that thought, because Iwas like there have to be other
parents out there who are reallystruggling and maybe I can take
some of my suffering in thisand help another parent.
So it's not quite as hard,because this is my area of

(09:42):
expertise supposedly, becausethis is my area of expertise
supposedly, and if it's thishard for me, it's got to be this
hard and even harder for otherparents who don't even know what
to Google when it comes tofeeding their kid, you know.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
Well, and that's, yeah, I think that that's like
what all of us do, right?
So, like we just start Googlingstuff and I've I probably have
Googled this more than I'veGoogled most things right, and I
would say that the informationthat you get is varied and the
perspective that we've taken sofar, which I think is a somewhat
evidence-based, acceptedperspective, is the primary goal

(10:17):
of kids' dietary upbringing,child rearing as it relates to
their palate, is to give kids apositive association with food
and so for and with eating,because obviously, the
prevalence of mental health, buteven eating disorders, you know
a lot of this, the stuff outthere.

(10:38):
Now you just think, well, Ireally don't want my kid to have
a negative relationship withfood and so I don't want to be,
you know, speaking negativelyabout certain foods.
I don't want to be, you know.
And then you, you go down thislike, okay, here's the checklist
, every single time I have toeat dinner, which is I got to do
all of these things, and oh,yeah, by the way, your kid has
to enjoy every minute of it andand it just feels like maybe,

(11:02):
maybe I'm wrong for this.
I don't know, but I've gottento the point where I'm like this
is just not going to be thebattle that I fight, like if I
fight every battle as a parent,you know this has got to be.
I have to like give somewhere,and so I'm just not.
And so my kids, yeah, like Zbars, sandwiches, toast, you

(11:24):
know like that's, that's a lotof their diet and we've tried
different things, but it justfeels like, yeah, it just feels
impossible.

Speaker 1 (11:34):
Sorry, um, I'm recovering from this cold that
my child gave me and was over inthree days and I'm, you know,
still trying to recover threeand a half years later, um,
later.
So yeah, I totally hear you andI always like to remind parents
, it's not that this stuffdoesn't matter.
Whatever this stuff is thefeeding, the sleeping, the, you

(11:55):
know, you name it.

Speaker 2 (11:57):
The keeping your house.
Yeah, the hitting, the hitting.
I'll add that one the tantrums,right, they matter.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
It's not that it doesn't matter, but it's that
you can choose what matters toyou and what you are actually
going to do something about.
You don't have to care aboutwhether your child eats quote
too many Z-bars, whatever thatmeans.
You don't have to.
I mean, it's not that itdoesn't matter, but also you get
to decide does this matterenough to me that I'm actually

(12:26):
going to do something about itor not?
And parents can be confident inthat.
Like, you get to make the rulesabout what's important to you.
It's just true.
And so, if you're, you know, alot of times parents listening
to various conversations they'relike, oh my gosh, I have to do
this or my child's going to bescarred forever.
Like, I'm sorry, your child isnot going to be scarred forever.

(12:50):
It's just not true.
Kids are not that fragile andwhether they really love you
know some other bar other thanthat particular one, it doesn't
matter.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
This is not an endorsement for Z Bars right.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
Yeah, absolutely not.
I'm surprised I'm even usingthe name, because I'm so careful
about not branding things.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
I know, I know, you know, I would like.
I'll just say, like I don't,I'm not a particularly big fan
of these right.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
I'm not saying like you know, I'm just saying like I
don't know why, but like it'sall my kids will eat.
But they're cookies in a bar.
It doesn't mean they're bad.
It doesn't mean they're badjust because it's a cookie, but
it just means it is a cookie.
Let's not, let's not like makeup something and say, oh, this
is not a cookie, it just is.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
I like that.
Instead of calling foods goodand bad, I'm just going to start
referring to foods as cookieand not cookie.
Is this a?
cookie, that's a piece of toastwith a full two tablespoons of
cinnamon sugar on it.
I think that's a cookie.
It's a cookie we're going to gowith cookie.
That's.
That's a really helpful.
But I think, yeah, yeah, Ithink, knowing what you just

(14:07):
hearing, that I think is so, andthis is something I try to do
on every podcast, especiallywith guests is to say, like you
know, as you said, we don't haveto care about everything and
we're probably not going to scarour anti-fragile kids for life,
right like our kids areanti-fragile, and so a lot of
the stuff that I talk aboutunrelated to food is okay If
your kid falls off the slide,like probably good for them.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
Yeah.
Right Like letting your kidsright Okay.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
Okay, so you're, you're, you're right with me.

Speaker 1 (14:35):
I mean, obviously it depends on your kid and all this
stuff, but my kid got his firstbloody nose at six months old
Cause he tried to climb down thestairs face first.
But guess what, he never didthat again.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
Yeah, well, and I was right there.

Speaker 1 (14:50):
I was right there to help him get better.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
And no, it's.
It's all about resilience,Right, and so I.
But I think, with things likefood and you know, I'm even
identifying that this is like a.
This is a shame point or maybea fear point for me where, yeah,
I feel like, but this will scarhim or scar them All.
All of my kids are boys, so I'mjust, I just say him and I just
mean all three Um, it will scarthem for life because, because

(15:17):
it feels like man if I reallyreally make a big stink about
this.
So so just to give you somecontext, we tried the I don't
again, this is not a branding, Iwon't even mention the brand.
We tried one of the meal servicethings where it's like a
preheated, like you just have itin your freezer, you just throw
in the microwave and it'ssupposed to be all stuff like
fun shapes, colors and it's justlike you just order like

(15:41):
however many in a box and youjust like try and see if that'll
be.
It's supposed to be diet, youknow, nutritionally rich.
My kids, but it was like I wasmy my middle son would literally
just say dad, why are you beingso mean right now when I like
pulled one out of the freezer,why are you being so mean right
now?
So I I really feel like, yeah,I'm, I'm at a loss.

(16:03):
So what can we do?
If?
If we do care Cause I think wecare Like the interesting thing
is the different battles that wechoose.
Like sleep is one that we'vebasically been like we don't,
we're not really going to care.
Every, every every sleep expertthat I've talked to has been
like it comes out in the wash atseven.
So, like you know, at seven,eight, nine years old, whether

(16:23):
you did this or that, your kidis going to, they're going to
kind of even out with with food.
It seems a little different inthat the more foods that they
seem to be exposed to and I'veheard you say this in various
forms like the kind of theeasier transition it's going to
be to developing that palatelater, so, yeah, I mean there is
a.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
There is a decent amount of research that shows
that.
You know, early exposure towider variety of foods tends to
lead to kids eating moredifferent foods over time, so
it's not like it doesn't matter.
At the same time, you know, arethere any foods that you've
learned to eat as an adult thatyou were never exposed to as a
child?
I mean I never ate feta cheeseas a child.

(17:05):
Sure, it was like three timesthe cost of, like you know,
generic block of cheese.
Why, you know, we did not havevery much money.
I never tasted anything otherthan cheddar cheese.
Why, you know, we did not havevery much money.
I never tasted anything otherthan cheddar cheese.
Right?
So have I learned to like it?
Yeah, cause it's fun, but it'snot.
You know, we learn to eatthings as an adult.

(17:25):
Um, kids can learn to eatthings.
That said, it doesn't mean youshould never expose your kids to
stuff, because I like to remindparents, if your kid doesn't
see it, they're not going to eatit because, literally, it's not
even there.
It's not there.

(17:46):
So if you're, like, I want mykid to eat broccoli, but they
didn't ever eat it, so I neverserve it.
Well, like you got to serve it,it has to be there for them to
be able to eat it.
So when I approach this sort ofpicky eating, when I'm thinking
about long-term eatingcompetence, what do I really
want from kids?
I want them to have a goodrelationship with their body,

(18:07):
and that has several differentfacets.
It means one I am.
I have a good relationship withmy body.
Like, whatever size it is,whatever it's doing, I have an
appreciation for it.
I can live in it.
I'm not, you know, hating mybody or trying to make drastic
changes to it.
You know that sort of thing,but also it's keeping my body
healthy.
There is an element of what weeat does affect our health in

(18:31):
some ways.
Like you, take the example of akid with allergies.
Well, a good relationship withfood for a kid with allergies is
literally to never eat that,the allergen that could have a
very drastic impact on them.
So also, if you have a kid whonever ever ever eats a fruit or
vegetable, they're actuallypretty high risk for things like

(18:52):
scurvy, which, you know, on onehand, people are like what?

Speaker 2 (18:55):
That's like why are you using the word scurvy?
That seems insane to me, Likemy kids are going to get like a
pirate disease here.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
Right, the pirate disease.
Believe it or not, we areseeing increases, increasing
rates of scurvy, which is easy.
It's like crazy.
So when I say it matters, it'slike it does matter if your
child ever eats fruits orvegetables.
If they're not, then that'ssomething that you may want to
pay attention to.
You may need to find a way tolike get a supplement into them,

(19:27):
or something like that.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
Sure.

Speaker 1 (19:29):
At the same time, um, you know.
So we want them to have a goodrelationship with their body in
terms of mindset, in terms of oftheir physical body, in terms
of maintaining its health andgetting it enough, you know,
getting it what it needs.
It doesn't mean you have to beon some like sort of like
longevity diet where your kidhas to be obsessed with every
single thing they put into theirmouth in the hopes they'll live
to, you know, 150 years old.

(19:50):
But we do want to maintain somesort of level of health, right,
if we can.
So when we're thinking aboutlong-term eating competence,
like can my child tell ifthey're hungry or full?
Can they honor those feedingcues?
Are they using food to soothethemselves, to handle emotions,

(20:10):
to do these sorts of things?
Like I'm a big appreciator of.
Like hey, I can eat some potatochips and that will make me
happy for a short time.
I think that's amazing.
I think that's a great tool.
At the same time, if that's myonly tool, that's actually not
healthy.
It's not healthy if I can'thandle my emotions other than
eating potato chips.
So we want kids to be able totake care of themselves and to

(20:33):
have an appropriate relationshipwith food.
That's, you know, it's fun,it's connection, it's
experiencing the world, it's,you know, it's maybe even
learning how food is grown.
There's so many things that arearound food.
We don't want to add all sortsof emotional baggage on top of
it where we're like oh nowyou're good or bad based on

(20:54):
whether you ate X, y, z, numberof Z bars or not, or, you know,
like whatever it is.
So we want them to end up asadult who can eat enough foods
to meet their nutritionrequirements and who can enjoy
the wide variety of experiencesthat go along with food.
And they can, you know.
They can enjoy their bodies,they can go to a social event

(21:16):
and get what they need.
They can go to camp and eatfood there.
So we want kids to be able togrow into competent eaters, not
necessarily kids who are goingto be those you know, super
adventurous kids who eatabsolutely anything, anywhere,
anytime.
I don't have those kids, youdon't have those kids.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
No.

Speaker 1 (21:36):
You know?
No, the parents listening tothis episode probably don't have
those kids.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
Sure Well, and if they do, they might not be
listening to this episode, right, they might be like, oh yeah,
this is just not my struggle andI think, yeah, I think that
that just to hear you talk aboutthat, as, like, the person who
makes the videos, is soaffirming to me at least I would
hope it's affirming to thelisteners as well, because for
me I mean, yeah, we talk aboutnot creating this good and bad

(22:03):
relationship with food, and Iremember growing up, right I
will say, as a guy raised in akind of fairly educated
environment with enoughresources, I was very privileged
that food was not demonized forme, but certainly for members

(22:25):
of my family, especially womenwho grew up a lot earlier than I
did grandparents I would hearthings like like I was bad
because I ate and I knew somehowintrinsically that if I did it
it wouldn't make me bad becauseI was different than them in
some way.

(22:47):
But you know, I think that thatextreme is like.
That's what I think we all fearultimately is like, if I put
broccoli up in front of my kidstoo many times, are they going
to like develop an eatingdisorder?
And the answer is no.
Kids are anti-fragile.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
The answer is no.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
And but I think that's a real there's a lot of
fear-based messaging.
Yes, yeah, I think there's alot of fear-based messaging.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
The messaging I was.
So part of Kids Eating Colorfor me has always been trying to
dispel this sort of fear-basedmessages that like okay, if your
kid eats candy, they're goingto get cancer.
No, you know, if your childgets cancer it's not your fault
because you fed them some candy.
Sure, there's all these sort oflike really extreme messages

(23:28):
that cause guilt and feareverywhere, everywhere, and so
much of my efforts over theyears have been like we don't
have to be fixating, obsession,obsessing about this good food,
bad food thing.
It's.
It's more complicated than that.
There's a lot more nuance.
But for the first time I am nowhaving to also add on this like

(23:50):
common sense, nuanced approachto the sort of like anti-diet,
kids intuitive eating stuffwhere all of a sudden there are
especially this past aroundeaster, when everybody's
creating their candy content,like people are literally saying
, well, do you want your childto eat a little bit less sugar
now or do you want to give theman eating disorder?

(24:12):
And I was like this isunacceptable.
It is unacceptable to pay anyfoods in this crazy sort of
fear-based thing of like if youfeed them the bad foods, they're
going to have a lifelong thing.
The same for relationship withfood Giving.
Making your child telling them,hey, you can only eat two
pieces of candy is not going togive your child an eating

(24:33):
disorder.

Speaker 2 (24:34):
Right.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
I just want to be really really clear about that.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
Like well, and if you're, if you're so concerned
about that well, if you'rereally concerned, I think.
I think part of it is thatwe're we look for causation.
What we find is correlation,and, and so you know, do kids
have an increased prevalence ofeating disorders today?

Speaker 1 (24:55):
Yes, oh my gosh, it is.
It's like skyrocketing.
That's also true it didn't.

Speaker 2 (25:03):
It didn't happen 25 years ago and your parents let
you eat whatever you wanted.
So maybe it's, maybe it's not,that your parents said it was
different when your parents said, have two pieces of candy on
Halloween and then save the restfor tomorrow, somehow you
didn't develop an eatingdisorder.
Maybe there's a thing calledsocial media and there's a thing
called, you know, like neuralpathways in the brain that are

(25:25):
not, that are, that are gearedand primed to try and you know,
look, look at the highest, bestgood for society, and to look at
these things and like there'sso many more factors.
And so I do think it's you know, a lot of why I built whole
parent.
You've kind of said how, whyyou built kids eat in color.
A lot of why I built wholeparent in part was to come to
combat the fact that we do haveto parent a little bit more

(25:48):
intentionally, I think, in theage of social media.
And so, even if we do have tobe a little bit more conscious
of the ways in which wecommunicate about food, it's not
to say that one you say itwrong this time, or you've done
this for 10 years that it'sgoing to ultimately lead to your
kid having anorexia orsomething else you know, or

(26:08):
being a binge eater, like thatwon't necessarily be the case,
and I think that you saying thatopenly is really helpful and
and and you know there's I thinkthat there's the there's like
the three.
There's the three headed dragonof this on social media, which
is that there's the populationof people who are like, have no
restrictions at all, which which, ultimately, functionally, I'm,

(26:29):
I'm in, I just keep it out ofthe house, like, if I don't want
my kids to have a hundred M&Ms,I'm not going to buy a gigantic
bag of M&Ms.

Speaker 1 (26:37):
So let me tell you this what you're doing is you're
practicing covert restriction,which is an evidence-based
practice and is associated withbetter child health, great
relationship with food andeverything.
So let me just let you knowyou're literally doing the best
thing.
So let me just let you knowyou're literally doing the best
thing.
If you don't, right?
When your child doesn't knowthey're being restricted, all

(27:00):
this drama like is left behind,right, because they don't
realize.
Like if your two-year-old hasnever had something and you keep
it away from them, they're notmissing anything.
This is covert restriction andit's actually associated with
great things.
Now, once your child knowsabout it and if they're like hey
, I want M&Ms, I want M&Ms andyou're like no, those are bad.

(27:23):
All of a sudden, you've broughtin like a whole bunch of things.
If you're like, hey, no more ofthose bars, they're not good
for you, they're cookies.
Cookies are bad for you.
You can only have so manycookies.
All of a sudden, you've broughtin all this emotional baggage
to this conversation and itbecomes much more complicated.
Instead, if you say, hey, we'regoing to buy this box of bars

(27:46):
once a week, it's this muchmoney.
I want to spend more money onother things.
We need a variety of foods.
We need lots of foods, becauseevery single food does something
different in our body.
All of a sudden, you have justtold your child, hey, we need a
variety of foods.
You've given them a totallydifferent perspective and you've
given them the really importantinformation that every food is
going to do something differentin their body.

(28:06):
And you've said nothing abouthow these bars are bad or
cookies are bad or anything else.
What I'd like to remind parentsof is serving a variety of foods
.
It is important and what thatmeans to you is going to be
different in different seasons.
Like, let's say, you're a mom,you're in your first trimester.

(28:27):
Like variety for you could bedifferent varieties of crackers.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, oh yeah fornutrition status, for your kid's
palate, like all that stuff.
And so, as you're thinking, oh,I want to serve a variety of
foods, I want to expose my kid.
That is how your child is goingto get used to more foods and

(28:48):
they're going to, you know,learn to learn to eat more foods
.
But it doesn't mean we have tobe bad mouthing other foods.
You can make the decision notto have, I don't know, cupcakes
in your house.
You can make that decisionwithout saying anything bad
about cupcakes.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
And it also.
Then it creates social pressuretoo for your kids, right, and
this is something that we talkabout.
I mean, this goes way beyondfood.
The thing is, with food isfood's so culturally tied that
when you start to bad mouthcupcakes, right, and then you
have a friend at school whobrings cupcakes and then your

(29:28):
kid says, no, you're bad.
Like people don't evenunderstand how this is not.
This is.
This goes beyond eatingdisorders, like when you, when
you may not cause your kid tohave an eating disorder by bad
mouthing cupcakes, but you maycause social pain for some other
kid when your child comes outand says you're wrong and you're
bad.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
Right.
I get so many teachers who arelike oh, this kid said that XYZ
food is poison.
When you, um, when parents say,oh my gosh, those school
lunches, those are so unhealthy,I cannot tell you how
passionate I am about saying youshould never.
And the time you should I usethe word should so few times?

(30:11):
You should never, ever, infront of your child, bad mouth
school lunches.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
Never, because what they do is they stigmatize kids.

Speaker 1 (30:19):
And what you don't realize is those children then
don't eat school lunch.
When they need that nutritionin their life they skip it.
The older they get, the morethey skip the lunch because of
the stigma.
It's completely unacceptable.
So I mean that's like a bignerve for me.
Like you can in your family say, hey, this food is not for us.
Like I don't know, maybe maybeyou follow a religious food code

(30:42):
we're all vegetarians.
Maybe it's your preference,maybe you don't believe in
having too much sugar, right,that's fine, but it doesn't mean
you need to be bad mouthing it,right?
Yeah, well, so we're-.
That's where the drama comes in, because there is some research
showing that when you aresaying, hey, these foods are bad
versus good, that actually doesadd to, you know, disordered

(31:07):
eating risk.
Right Now there's all sorts ofother things.
It's like oh, you know, if yourestrict your kid from two
cookies versus three orunlimited, like, we can get into
all that drama of likerestriction and all that stuff.
But I do feel like there'senough research out there to
really make the recommendationto parents to say don't call it
bad or good, like, call it byits name.

(31:30):
We have this amazing vocabularyfor food.
Every food has its own name.
Use that vocabulary.
Don't try to parse it togetherand say, oh, these are the good
foods and these are the badfoods.
It's much more complicated thanthat.
Is that helpful?
And it can lead to like yourchild saying, oh, my gosh, I ate
this unhealthy food.
Am I a bad person?

(31:50):
Is my friend bad?
Is my friend's mom serving thempoison?
Because these are the messagesthat are going to school and now
, all of a sudden, rather thanbeing an agent of curiosity or
acceptance or learning aboutother people, now your kid is
going around spreading judgmentabout food, like oh my gosh,
that's a bad food.

(32:10):
Is that really the firstthought that we want children to
have when they look at theirfriend's lunch is is that
healthy or not?
Is that really what we want forour kids?
Or do we want them to look atthe lunch and say oh, what do
you have?

Speaker 2 (32:25):
Well, that seems disordered to me.
To me to say, like when a kidis so, like I didn't know what
was healthy and not healthy whenI was a kid and I probably
really.
I mean, like I said, there weresome casual comments that I
that that definitely existed andI you know the way that
families work I don't know howmuch eating disorder existed.
I have suspicions now, knowingmuch more about psychology as an

(32:48):
adult, that it was probablymore than I thought in my
extended family.
But yeah, we didn't have any ofthat kind of language in my own
home.
And just to give you an example, so we don't eat meat, we're
vegetarians.
My kids are also vegetarians.
Maybe that's part of the issue,you know, I just trying to
justify that.
You know chicken nuggets arealso brown, so it's not probably

(33:09):
doing.
They still would only be eatingbrown things.
But but yeah, so so they'llhave like impossible chicken
nuggets or something like that.
But but yeah, we don't eat.
They don't really like that,because those are designed to
imitate meat and because they'venever been exposed to meat,
they're like so what?
Um, and the kids next door, hisbest friends, uh, they are

(33:30):
Jordanian and they're Muslim andthey I don't know how closely
they keep halal, but like, forsure, they have a lot of lamb.
They like they eat a lot ofmeat.
And just trying to process withmy seven-year-old even, like,
yeah, they're not bad for eatingsomething that we choose not to
eat.
And if you choose to eat that,that's okay.
Here are our reasons, not fornot, but they, but those reasons

(33:53):
may not even be on their radar,right.
And so so he, he, he's kind ofinternalized this.
Like yeah, I think it's.
I personally don't think Ithink it's kind of gross to this
.
Like, yeah, I think it's, Ipersonally don't think I think
it's kind of gross to me tothink about eating an animal,
but I get that they don't thinkit's gross.
And so he sits a table withthem and we'll, like you know,
eat and I think that's whatslices of white bread, while
they know we want kids.

Speaker 1 (34:15):
We want kids to have that sort of maturity and some
kids are going to pick that upeasier than others.
I mean one of my kids, you knowhe's not picking up that sort of
like the subtle distinctionmuch more willing to say, like,
whatever's on the top of hishead and you know, with little
kids you never know what's onthe top of their head, but I

(34:35):
think that's so true.
Like we don't.
It's not a child's job and it'snot developmentally appropriate
for a child to be expected tomake some sort of health
decision based on what's at theon the table at a party.
Like that is not.
That is not for them to bemaking that call.

(34:56):
It is their job to sit at yourtable, to sit at their own table
at home and to say, okay, myparents put these foods on the
table.
Or maybe sit at their own tableat home and to say, okay, my
parents put these foods on thetable, or maybe even on my plate
and I'm going to choose whichone of these to eat and which
ones not to eat.
Right, and that isdevelopmentally appropriate
because, just like witheverything, you, the parent, are
setting the boundary.
You're deciding what is there.
That's your job.

(35:17):
You can spend as much time asyou want reading up on like
nutrition books or whatever.
It is Right, but that's notyour child's job.
It's not their job to likecarry that burden in this sort
of weird food environment thatwe have, where there is a lot of
food that if you just eat thatfood you're actually your health
might suffer, right, but that'snot their problem.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
That's our problem to deal with.

Speaker 1 (35:40):
That is not their problem.
So for us to put that onchildren, it's just not
appropriate, like why we wedon't need to be doing that.
Instead, we need to becultivating this sense of like.
Are they hungry?
Are they full?
Are they?
Does that look good to them?
Does that not?
Because what they're doing isthey're they're, you know,
trying to listen, like what istheir body saying, and that's an

(36:00):
important skill, not just ineating but in everything.
Like what's your gut saying?
What are you, you know,listening to.
You know that feeling you havewhen there's some weirdo, you
know, on the on the streetwatching you, you know, or
whatever, like I think I shouldrun inside and go talk to my
parents.
It's all part of the same systemof like being able to kind of
tell what those internal sensesare.
It's all part of the samesystem of like being able to

(36:21):
kind of tell what those internalsenses are.
So teaching kids to have thatat the table, even if it means
they're looking at that broccoliand they're deciding not to eat
it, we see that as bad, butalso them deciding not to eat it
is also a skill right,interesting, and the more that
we expose them to broccoli, themore they realize oh, that's

(36:41):
actually okay, it's okay for meto eat it, it's okay for me to
poke it, touch it, whatever, andthen I might decide to try it.
That's great.
But what we're doing is we arehelping them become comfortable
to the point where they're likeoh, this is actually not a
threat to me Because kids arescared of new foods.
That is actually a thing.
It's got a name neophobia.

(37:04):
I'm afraid of new foods, I'mafraid of new things, and this
happens to me, you know, relatedto food.
But what we are trying to do ishelp them become comfortable.
Like in our Better Bitesprogram, parents are always like
, well, what's the eating plan?
It's like nope, it's not theeating plan, right, if you've
got a computer, it's not theeating plan, it's not the foods,

(37:25):
it's all about.
Can we help your child's bodybecome comfortable?
Can we help you create anenvironment that's going to help
them become comfortable?
And I think that's where westart to see okay, what is my
real goal?
My real goal is to help mychild become comfortable in the
presence of variety and be ableto meet their nutrition needs.
You know, it's not some sort oflike how do I help them get eat

(37:48):
every single food or have this?
You know, I don't know, havethis sort of relationship with
food where you're like oh,whatever you want, anytime,
anywhere, any place, there's abalance right.
As a parent, we can set thoseboundaries around eating Like
you can decide.
You know what?
I'm just not going to have bagsof M&Ms in the house.

(38:08):
I mean that just doesn't feelright to me.
It's not good for my kids, it'snot good for me.
Right, it's not good for you.
Whatever, it is Right.
And there's some people who arelike, oh well, that means you
need to have more M&Ms in thehouse and that means you may
need to make them, you know,available and, like you know,
for some kids that may be anappropriate intervention.

(38:30):
We have to remember that someparents do have disordered
eating or they have a realeating disorder and the best
thing for that family is, yeah,we are always going to have M&Ms
, we're always going to havethem in the cupboard and they're
always going to be available,and that is literally what is
the best thing possible for thatfamily.
Well, I don't have an eatingdisorder, my husband doesn't
have an eating disorder and inmy family, having unlimited

(38:54):
amounts of M&Ms all the timelike we could, but like that's
just not what happens.
Right.
And so there are variations onkind of this balance of like
giving kids unlimited eatingopportunities, also saying you
know this isn't always going tobe in the house and that's all
okay.
But I think we need to keep oureye on the big things, which

(39:17):
are can your child tell whenthey're hungry and full and what
their body wants?
Are you providing as muchvariety as you can?
And also I just throw this inthere Is your child like
typically eating or do theyactually have like a really like
more serious issue, becausethere are times when parents are

(39:38):
like I've done everything, mykid is only eating 10 foods.
That's not typical for a childto only only eating 10 foods.
That's not typical for a childto only be eating 10 foods or 15
.
Right.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
Well, unless that's all they're being offered.

Speaker 1 (39:50):
Yeah, and there are times when you're like, wait a
second, there's more going onhere for my child beyond all
these other things, cause I'mdoing everything everybody is
saying and nothing is adding up,so also keep that in mind.
We actually have a picky eatingscreener for parents to take.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
Oh, that's great.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
I can help them figure out like okay, does my
child have typical picky eatingor is it something more?

Speaker 2 (40:17):
Is it beyond that?

Speaker 1 (40:22):
Yeah, cause we do find that's such a common
question that we getspecifically about picky eating
that we want to make sureparents are not flipping out
about something that's reallypretty typical.
Um, you know cause?
There's no reason to be layingawake at night If your toddler
is only eating two bites ofdinner every night.
Cause that's what toddlers do,it's so common.

(40:42):
Like you don't have to belosing sleep over that.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
Um yeah, Okay, so I have.
I have a bunch of myths that Iwant to kind of rapid fire on
you, but before I do that, Ijust want to say, for like, I
feel like I'm sitting herehaving a Eureka moment, because
what you're saying about food isso just.
I don't know why.
I've never thought of it thisway, but this is so reflective
of just kind of everything inchildhood, which is all of the

(41:09):
stuff that we talk about withgiving kids opportunities to try
things and fail, giving kidsopportunities to be exposed to
things, not being unnecessarilyafraid of unknowns not be but
understanding that kids arenaturally afraid of unknowns
because of their, you know.
I like to say that the brain isjust trying to predict what's

(41:32):
coming next.
Right, Like that's essentiallywhat your brain is doing is just
trying to predict what's comingnext.

Speaker 1 (41:36):
We also don't want them eating the random mushrooms
in the yard.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
Right.
And so kids and kids, becausethey, because they don't have as
much information as us and theydon't have the predictive
ability, they don't know thatjust because you know Brussels
sprouts also have salt and wereprepared in the same way that
the broccoli was, that they'reprobably going to like both, or
maybe not, but at least let'sfind out.
Like they may not have thatability.
So so a lot of this stuff islining up and, and especially

(42:01):
when you just said you know wewant them to be able to trust
their own sense of the world.
I think, when I'm just thinkingabout my own kids, I have given
them so many tools out in theworld to trust the sense of the
world, but at the dinner table Ifeel like we're not doing that
at all.
We're making the decisions forthem.

(42:21):
You're, you're probably notgoing to like this, you probably
are going to like this, and theidea that, like I would prepare
something and my kids wouldpoke at it and then not eat it,
to me is like then I failed,instead of saying no.
And this is what I would say inevery other aspect.
Like no, sending your kid outonto the tee ball field to like
totally mess up and totally nothit the ball and then not

(42:44):
shielding them from thatexperience, but also processing
it with them.
That's good parenting, oh yeah,and I think so many parents are
afraid not only of saying thewrong thing about food, not only
of you know certain foods Now Imean, which are some of my
myths here but but not only someof those things, but also of

(43:04):
the world.
Right, like we're all terrified.
I talk about this in the bookthat I that I just got, just got
to copy edit phase, but yeah,thank you, um, but I just got,
yeah, just got to copy editphase, and one of my chapters is
is about boundaries, but thenalso like where we probably need
to have fewer boundaries, andone of those is like I, I don't

(43:25):
say this in specifics, butstranger danger is not like
particularly healthy for kids,because when they get into this
stranger danger idea, then theythink all strangers are
dangerous, when in reality, yourgoal should be to foster that
internal sense of here are thethings that you look for that
are problematic, strangebehaviors, and then don't, don't

(43:47):
put yourself in positions,right?
So, so like I think the same istrue.
It sounds like the same is truewith food, which is like man
I'm telling my kids essentiallyI'm trying to shield them from
from all harm and then what theywind up with and this is what
we now know of kids who arebrought up to fear the world,

(44:07):
whether that's falling off theslide, whether that's the
strangers on the street, whetherthat's being outside of an
arm's length from mom or dad outin public, which a lot of
parents are like.
We got to keep them withinarm's length at all times and
within arm's length at all times.
When kids grow up to be afraidof those things, they grow up
into adults that are highlyanxious and often are depressed.
On the flip side, when your kidgrows up kind of demonizing

(44:30):
food and having to judge everysingle food is this poison, is
this not?
I imagine they're probablygoing to grow up with a pretty
anxious relationship to food anda pretty anxious relationship.
When you said it's notdevelopmentally appropriate, I
was like, oh man, that's all thestuff we talk about with fear.
So thank you so much for that.
That's just my like ramblingthoughts, but I feel like this
has also been super helpful forme, because it seems like a lot

(44:50):
of the stuff we talk about inparenting spaces.
If we just applied that to foodand weren't so scared, then
maybe actually we'd be much moresuccessful.
Okay, so here's my myths.
Rapid fire Isn't a myth, is itnot?
First one, you're going to getcanceled for this, I know, but
I'm going to put you on the spot.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
I'm going to put you on the spot.
But I'm going to lie.

Speaker 2 (45:09):
I mean I know, right, okay.
So first one we used to feedour kids these green smoothies
that were absolutely chockedfull of spinach and all of these
people and they, like, didn'thave a ton of sugar.
They were just like maybefrozen pineapple, but otherwise,
and like an apple, maybe anorange, but it was like fruit,
fresh fruit, um, and it was likespinach, water and a couple of

(45:30):
pieces of fruit.
People on the internet werelike John, you're going to give
your kids some form of cancerfrom having too much spinach,
too much spinach, oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
Yeah, okay.
So that is the too much spinachidea, is it so?
Spinach has what are calledanti-nutrients, and this is not
just spinach, it's all kinds offoods.
Vegetable foods have these more.
They, um, they compete in yourbody for other things, so like
iron absorption, calciumabsorption, like all sorts of

(46:03):
elements.
Your body is competing forabsorption because you only have
so many ways to like get itinto your body.
So spinach doesn't have verygood absorption of, say, iron
and some other things becauseit's so high in these nutrients.
It doesn't mean it's nothealthy.
It for sure is not going togive your kid cancer.
Like, let's get's get off.
The spinach is going to kill us.

(46:24):
Train totally unhelpful.
Should your child only beeating spinach?

Speaker 2 (46:29):
No, sure, sure, sure, sure, but.
But a spinach, but a green, agreen juice once a day.
Not harmful to your kids,Probably good for them.

Speaker 1 (46:37):
No, no, If your child has anemia or something like
that, I would serve that greensmoothie at a time by itself,
and then you know the rest ofthe day serve your high iron
foods.
But like seriously, a greensmoothie every day is not going
to hurt your kid.
It might help your kid, Okay.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
Number two red dye.

Speaker 1 (47:04):
Oh, red dye.
I don't understand why peopleare not more concerned about
yellow five personally, butbecause there's way more
evidence.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
You're saying there's more to fear.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
So here's, here's the thing Do dyes affect kids?
They affect some kids.
That's what the research shows.
I don't think we should bemaking up stuff to say, oh, it
doesn't matter.
It does matter actually, andfor some kids it can increase
all sorts of symptoms behavioralsymptoms, ability to handle

(47:37):
just about anything.
It might cause tantrums, it maycause allergic reactions, like
all sorts of things.
This is true.
It is true for a way smallergroup of children than is being
portrayed on social media, and Iwish I had had my stat like
right in front of me Um, but Idon't, so I'm not going to give

(47:58):
you a number, but it is waysmaller, way, way, way, way, way
way smaller than you wouldthink Like over over under 10%.
Ah, that's what I'm trying toremember.
Is it over or under 10%?

Speaker 2 (48:08):
Okay, so it's okay, but, but, but under 25.

Speaker 1 (48:12):
Yeah, well, I'm again .
I don't want to put a numberout there.
I do have a highlight aboutfood dye on my Instagram page
and that has actual data in it.
Um, one of my kids I neverworry about dye, the other one
we actually suspect is sensitiveto food dye and so we just
generally don't have it aroundbecause he seems to act super

(48:36):
weird when he has it.
But you know what?

Speaker 2 (48:40):
call me crazy right, call me crazy, but I feel like a
lot of the red food diet stuffis like your kid goes to a party
.
They have a cupcake with pinkfrosting.
They come home and you treatthem totally differently,
knowing that they've had the reddye.

Speaker 1 (49:00):
Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
And kids will absolutely.
Kids look to us to tounderstand their experience of
the world because we are.
The more regulated in theirmind should be, the more
regulated you know parent childrelationship and co -regulation,
and so I think a lot of parentslike because that happens?
This is why it's so damaging toto tell your child not to trust

(49:23):
their emotions.
You're not hungry right now?
Right, because they'll believeyou Like.
They'll actually be like yeah,you're right, I must not be,
because you must know more thanme about this.
The same thing is true, I think, with the red dye thing.
It's interesting to find outthat there is some validity to
it.
I'm willing to accept the data.
Right, it's not totally made up, but at the same time I think

(49:45):
overblown.

Speaker 1 (49:45):
I mean, why do we have it?
It seems stupid that it's inthere, especially since it does
affect some kids, but you're,but you're right and you would
love the data on like does sugarmake your kid hyper?
Oh, no, no no, it doesn't thatwas actually.

Speaker 2 (49:59):
That was my next parent.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
I've never met a parent in real life who's like
oh yeah, I could totally seethat.
They're like no, no, and I'mlike there are so many studies
that have compared parents andthey give the kid like the
Kool-Aid that actually has sugarin it, the Kool-Aid that
doesn't.
And if the parents thinkthey're sugar, they rate their
kids behavior more hyper, youknow, just because that's what
they think.
So, no, sugar isn't making yourkid hyper, unless your child

(50:25):
has some sort of sensitivity tohigh sugar levels, and that is
true for some kids, but, again,an exceedingly small number of
children.
So again, do your ownexperiments.
You think your child has asensitivity to food dye Take it
all out for two weeks.
The sensitivity to food dyetake it all out for two weeks.

(50:46):
Give them a huge dose, see whathappens and, if possible, have
some sort of other person, likea teacher who doesn't know who
doesn't know, because your kidis sensitive.
There's a good chance they'renot, but maybe they are so, and
this goes for literally anything.
Like anything is possible.
Your kid could literally haveanything.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
So this is getting so you're already hitting my next
one, but I want to ask itovertly If my kid has ice cream
before bed, is it going to keepthem up and ruin their bedtime
routine, provided that it's notpart of the bedtime routine?
So like if I do my normalbedtime routine, as I normally
would, at 630, but whether ornot they have ice cream at 615,
effect no effect or, most of thetime, one or the other.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
Okay.
So I'll give you this example.
My, we did this the other night.
We always have bedtime snack.
As I mentioned, I had a kidwho'd fallen off the growth
chart.
He was needs that bedtime snack.
Um, and it's just part of it.
It could be any food snack, Um,and it's just part of it.
It could be any food.
Sometimes it's ice cream.
It was, and all of a sudden ourone of the kids was I don't

(51:49):
know.
I was like what is wrong withhim?
What is wrong with him?
He is being a nightmare.
He won't stop talking, he'srunning in circles, he's like
doing acrobatics on the bed,Like what is going on.
And I realized that the onlyice cream we had had, a it was
like mint chocolate chip.
We know this kid is verysensitive to caffeine, including

(52:12):
the caffeine in chocolate.
Oh my gosh.
And I was like I can't believewe accidentally gave him this
ice cream.
Worst decision on the planet.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
Sure.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
Okay, other kid not sensitive to caffeine or
chocolate no effect whatsoever.
Is it going to affect your kid?
Probably not.
Had we given them all vanilla?

Speaker 2 (52:31):
ice cream?
No, if it is, yeah, if it is,it's probably not even the thing
that you think it is.

Speaker 1 (52:36):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Now that kid like chocolate inthe evening.
He knows he's not allowed tohave it.
So he's like sorry man, we canhave chocolate in the evening.
He knows he's not allowed tohave it.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
So he's like sorry man.

Speaker 1 (52:44):
we can have chocolate in the afternoon, I mean not in
the evening.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
All adults get too much caffeine, but there
definitely are those among us.
My brother can pound aCoca-Cola an hour before bed or
in bed and just be gone.
My wife drinks caffeine after 3pm.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
She's cooked, so I think this is probably the same
with other people.
I literally cannot have, Icannot even have chocolate, I
can't have any caffeine any partof the day and still be normal
at this point.

Speaker 2 (53:14):
There you go.
So we have to know, we have totrust our bodies in the same way
.
So, okay, so then next.
Next question this is kind ofmy last one, but I do want, just
before we get here, so that youcan also be answering and
thinking at the same time, whichis impossible, but you know,
I'm going to make you do it the,the.
How do we, how do we introduce?
If you had to give us like fivesteps or six steps, or if you
have them, how do you introduceyour kids to new foods?

(53:36):
I want to get to that in asecond, but my last one is my
toddler seems to go throughperiods where he doesn't eat at
all.
My toddler also goes throughperiods where he seems like he
will eat the rug.
Um, normal, Should I be?

Speaker 1 (53:52):
concerned, 100% normal.
Now, if your child truly iseating nothing, as in not one
bite at every meal, that's notnormal Generally.
That would be a time to justcheck in, potentially with a
pediatrician or something Likewhen a child is not eating
anything, that's actually when Irecommend like hey, call up,

(54:12):
call a local professional, justto get a gut check on this,
Cause that's not normal.
Um, but your toddler eatingalmost nothing one day and
eating literally as much or morethan you ate, is very typical,
extremely typical.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
Or like front ending Every parent has experienced.
So like front end loading kidswho will not eat after like two,
like this is what goes for us.
I would never say that my mymiddle one, doesn't eat at all.
He's the one who does this morethan my other two.
He doesn't like not eat at all,but he'll not eat after 2 PM.

Speaker 1 (54:47):
Yeah, that's super, super typical Cause they're
tired.
Well, we don't realize it takesa lot of energy to eat.
You got to sit, you got tofocus, you have to, like,
coordinate your body, you haveto chew and swallow and breathe
and deal with any sort of foodneophobia you have or, you know,
anxiety related to eatingpressure that your parents are

(55:07):
putting on you.
It's a lot.
We don't realize just how muchit is, how much of an energy
thing it is for kids to eat.
So, so, if your child is likeyou know they're, they may get
to 2 PM and they're, like, readyfor nap time, or maybe they
don't have a nap, but they'restill technically really could
use the nap.
Sure, or they've been indaycare all day or school day or

(55:29):
whatever, and they're cominghome they're tired, they're done
, they've already eaten theirfood.
In which case I just recommendcause parents are then like oh
my gosh, they didn't eat anyvegetables today Start serving
the vegetables at breakfast.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
Wow this sounds crazy .

Speaker 1 (55:43):
Start serving the foods that you wish they would
eat earlier in the day and thenyou'll be blessed.

Speaker 2 (55:48):
Okay, so this is.
This is step one.
So I've done this intuitively.
But that's funny that you saythat, because I'll like, sort of
like, an omelet with vegetables, and my kid will eat it for
breakfast.
Yeah, not going to touch it atdinner.
Okay so, top five tips or stepsor whatever, however you'd
frame it.
We got five minutes.
How can I get my kid to eatsome more foods?

(56:09):
And then I want to make surepeople know how to connect with
you so that they can get allthis information and more.

Speaker 1 (56:13):
Yeah.
So first thing we've beentalking about this a lot as the
parent get in your brain whatyour job is, which is to serve
the food, and it's their job todecide whether or not to eat it.
If you have this mindset, youopen up a lot of opportunities
for yourself.
The second thing is to actuallyserve the food that you want

(56:35):
your child to eat.
That might mean serving foodsthat you know your child is not
going to eat.
So don't make that much,because you're going to be
eating a lot.
Don't put a cup of peas ontheir plate.
Put one pea on their plate.
Use micro portions that's whatI call them and I like that.
But you've got to have the foodthere, right there, until they
see it and become familiar withit.
They're, until they see it andbecome familiar with it, they're

(57:05):
not going to eat it.

Speaker 2 (57:06):
Third is to model yourself what you want your
child to be doing Modeling is sopowerful as with everything,
right, no pressure on us.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
Um, yeah, eat together, but eat the foods.
Eat the foods you want yourchild to eat with them.
Show them how to do it.
The other thing is to um, uh,you know, make, make your
mealtime a little bit fun whenyou can.
I mean, my husband is like sonotorious for like picking up a,
a stick of broccoli and singinginto it like a microphone or

(57:33):
you know, you can just make itlight, right, because the more
fun kids have, the more theyrelax, and when they're relaxed,
they're less likely to beanxious, and when they're less
anxious, they're more likely toeat something.
And they're watching you andthey're having fun and you just
ate this green bean in a reallyfunny way.
Maybe they want to do that too.
Do not underestimate the powerof a little bit of fun, and

(57:55):
quote playing with way.
Maybe they want to do that too.
Do not underestimate the powerof a little bit of fun, and
quote playing with food.
We don't want to be wastingfood, but we can still play with
food.

Speaker 2 (58:02):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (58:03):
And, um, I guess the the other, I mean those are like
the really core that was four.
I came up with four on the spot.
The other one, I would say,something that's also really
powerful, is to have um, is tokind of incorporate kids into
the eating experience or likecooking, meal prep, any of that.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
I was actually about to ask this Cause you said this.
You said something like thiswith the, with the Z bars, you
were like, look, this is thebudget here, here's the other
things we have to buy.
And I was in my head.
I was like, oh man, I'm gladyou're saying this now, because
I thought in the moment, like,oh man, I I grocery shop with my
kids, but do I have aconversation about?
Like we are eating this tonightin the same way that I would

(58:46):
with my wife when we're walkingaround?
I'm like doesn't this asparaguslook good, let's try this.

Speaker 1 (58:51):
Like right why?

Speaker 2 (58:52):
would never do that with my kids.

Speaker 1 (58:53):
That conversation with your kid you can also say
hey, do you see any orangevegetables?
Do you see any?
Hey, can you go pick out somefruit for us to try this week,
or you?
Can say for yourself hey, canyou go pick up some fruit for me
to try, for me to try?
You don't have to put thepressure on your child, um, so,
anyway, there's a cooking meal.
Prep, of course like havingkids in the kitchen while you're

(59:14):
making food is tricky, and I100% get that.
Like baking with my kids is ahard no.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
My wife, my wife is not a fan.
I'll do it, I'll totally do it,but my wife is like no, no way.

Speaker 1 (59:27):
Just kind of know yourself, know the situation,
read the room, the whole thing.
But when kids are in thekitchen, I'm like I love giving
my kids like things that arepushing their ability to like
hit danger.
My kids are all about danger.
I have stereotypical boys, soyou give them a knife.
Now, obviously, this requires alot of supervision, know your

(59:50):
own child, et cetera, all thewarnings, Um.
But you give my kids a knifeall of a sudden.
They will help prep the mealbecause they could also chop off
their finger.
Now, granted, I'm not going togive them a knife, they could
chop off their finger.

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
but this feels, but maybe that they could cut
themselves and that's actuallyokay.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
Exactly, and they don't want to cut themselves.
My kids cut themselves onknives Absolutely, but like not
that bad, and they becomeextremely careful with knives.
Um, and it's actually not beenduring food prep that they've
cut themselves.
They took my paring knife andthey turned it into a whittling
knife.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
Whittling is, I would say whittling, for in my own
personal experience of whittling, I have gotten more stitches
from whittling, for in my ownpersonal experience of whittling
, I have gotten more stitchesfrom whittling than any other
single activity.
So facts, facts on facts canconfirm.

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
So anyway, including your kids and meal prep, those
are kind of the five that Ireally look at.
How do you put this alltogether?
And that's um, that's it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
I love, I love those five.
I feel like I'm going to beimplementing those five this
week for my family, literallytomorrow, because I feel like
this conversation has given me acompletely different view of
food and eating and some stuffthat I can do.
I love this micro portionsthing.
I'm always like just take onebite, but I've never thought
about only putting one bite onthe plate.
I'm always like just take onebite, but it's like do you know

(01:01:12):
how much broccoli I eat as avegetarian?
Like my plate is like lookslike a forest, which probably is
going to give me that.
Like you know, I it's like goingto mess with my iron or
something, but but you know, Ithink that that's super, super
helpful.
And so, all of these tips, I'mgoing to go back and listen to
this episode myself.
My wife who, who, who listensto the podcast occasionally was
like wait, wait, wait, when'sthis one coming out?

(01:01:32):
And I was like.
I was like Jess, you can have,you can have the preview, you
can have it on the computerbefore it comes out, cause she's
going to listen to this ineight minutes.
She's going to be like take thekids.

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
Hot tip Don't say take one bite, because does it
work.
Does it work.

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
No, it doesn't work.
Are you kidding me?

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
Doesn't work.

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
The only thing that seems to work is you can spit it
out.
Oh, you can spit it out.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
Perfect Right I love.
Hey, you can eat it when you'reready.
You don't have to eat it,because when you say you have to
take a bite, I don't know aboutyou, my kids, are like.
Nope, but if you're like.
Oh, I don't care, I don't care,I don't care.
You might really care, butpretend like you don't care, and
then they're like oh okay, youdon't care, so I'll do whatever
I want, which might be to take abite.

Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
Right, and I mean, yeah, the fact that the table is
a place where I mean physicallyso many parents this is a
totally another episode, but somany parents need to give their
kids so much more autonomybecause so many behavior issues
come from.
I have to get my autonomy outin some way and if you don't
give me an outlet, I'll find one.
But I think the dinner table isoften one where it's like I

(01:02:43):
mean, a lot of parents havereally problematic parenting
practices.
I don't know a single parenttoday who's going to hold their
kid down and shove food in theirmouth and thank God, by the way
but but because of that, it'ssometimes the only place where a
kid feels like I have controland we know, right from eating
disorder research, a lot of it'sabout control and so

(01:03:04):
understanding that you can giveyourself and your kids an agent,
a sense of agency and controlman, I like that a lot.
This has been so helpful.
What?
Where can we find you, otherthan obviously, kids eat in
color, which I imagine manypeople who are listening have
already, have alreadyexperienced you.
But you know you mentioned thatthere's a, there's a picky
eating, picky eating screenerand things like that.
Where can we find all thatstuff?

(01:03:24):
How can we get in touch withyou?

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
I mean the, if you go to kids in colorcom or even the
um or even the, you knowInstagram link whatever all the
all the bio links.
Um, the picky eating screeners,that we have some free picky
eating guide.
That's really good.
It's super helpful, Like here'sthe basics of, to help get your
picky eater started on theright track.
So those are two things that Ihighly recommend.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
Do you have a link?
Do you have a link to that thatwe can just put in the show
notes for people?
Oh yeah, absolutely Awesome.
Okay, We'll put that in theshow notes so that you can just
go right.

Speaker 1 (01:03:59):
Well, her the website , kids eating color, will also
be there.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
Yeah, okay, how else.
Yeah, how else.
How else can we get in touch?

Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
Oh yeah, I mean that's.
That's pretty much type type inkids in color.
See what comes up.

Speaker 2 (01:04:11):
Here you are.

Speaker 1 (01:04:12):
The website, the social media media.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
Those are like the big, those are the big places I
love it yeah I on behalf of, uh,my own personal family, but
also on behalf of all of thepeople with picky eaters and all
the toddler parents who feel somuch better after listening to
this.
Jennifer, thank you so much forbeing on the whole parent
podcast absolutely thanks forhaving me wow was I not right

(01:04:34):
like?
this is one of the best episodesthat we have ever had on the
whole parent.
Absolutely.
Thanks for having me.
This has been a total struggleand, like I said, I'm recording
this intro and now the outro,which you're listening to right

(01:04:56):
now, a couple of days after, andI've implemented this stuff
since then and it has been so,so helpful.
In fact, I even sent an emailabout it last week and that's
what I wanted to tell you about.
If you are listening to thewhole parent podcast on a
regular basis but you're not onthe email list yet, you got to
get on the email list why?
Because I send out a really,really informative, helpful

(01:05:16):
email about parenting everysingle Thursday, and that email
includes things like my tips forhelping your kids to become a
little bit less picky with whatthey eat, Stuff that I learned
from people like Jennifer, stuffthat I learned from other
guests that we have.
And so if you're on that emaillist, great.
If you're not, go to the linkin the description of this

(01:05:36):
episode, go to the show notesand click on that first link.
It goes to my email landingpage or email list landing page.
You can enter your informationin there.
I'm not going to spam you witha bunch of like buy this, buy
this.
I'm not gonna sell your data toanybody, nothing like that.
The email list is just your wayto stay connected with all
things whole parent andespecially to get that extra

(01:05:57):
parenting advice that you mightneed.
And we don't always have timeto listen to every single
podcast, but on Thursday youknow that you're going to get an
email that's going to help youparent better every single
Thursday.
So, without further ado, I'mgoing to end this episode
because it's already been one ofmy longest episodes ever.
I'm glad that it was one of mylongest episodes ever because
it's one of the most chockedfull of good information,

(01:06:18):
helpful information, like I'vesaid, that I've already started
to apply in my own life with myown kids.
It's been super, superlife-changing for us so far.
So that's all I got for youtoday.
Thanks for listening to theWhole Parent Podcast and I'll
see you next time.