December 9, 2025 • 45 mins
In this episode, Jon unpacks why kids interrupt, especially in those moments when it “starts to feel disrespectful and chaotic” and you’re thinking, they’re old enough, they should know better. He breaks down what’s really happening in the developing brain around time, impulse control, and attachment, and why so many “rude” behaviors are actually bids for connection. Listeners walk away with a clearer understanding of what their child’s interruptions are telling them, plus practical, shame-free ways to set limits, protect conversations, and still help kids feel seen and important.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jon @WholeParent (00:00):
If your child interrupts you constantly, you
are absolutely not alone.
Every parent that I know hitsthis moment where the
interruptions start to feeldisrespectful and chaotic, and
you just have this sense oflike, they're old enough, they
should know better.
In today's episode, we're goingto look at why kids interrupt,
what impulse control and thedeveloping sense of time have to
(00:22):
do with this, specifically howour kids process time, and why
so many of the behaviors that weread as rude are actually signs
of the brain still having tolearn how to pause, hold a
thought, and trust that theirneeds are still gonna matter,
even if they wait.
But the beautiful part of allthis is that there are some
practical things that we can doto support the growing brain and
(00:43):
reduce interruptions withoutshaming or shutting them down.
Let's get into it.
All right, so as uh you join meback out here on the porch, I've
been recording, trying to recordlike an episode almost every
day, guys.
And the reason that I've beentrying to do this is because I'm
(01:04):
just trying to get back in thehabit of recording these
episodes and just getting thiscontent out because so many
people have come back and said,this is my favorite thing that
you do, John.
Like your book is great, but thepodcast is like the best part of
my day or the best part of myweek.
And if I'm recording podcasts inthis way where I'm mostly just
answering questions andspitballing and just kind of
(01:28):
talking about parenting, it's alot easier for me to pump out a
lot more.
So obviously, today I've alreadysaid what we're talking about.
We're talking about kidsinterrupting, we're talking
about kids being rude anddisrespectful sometimes.
This is especially prevalentover the holiday season.
We're in the middle of theholiday season when we're having
these family get togethers andour kids are just kind of
(01:49):
constantly interrupting us andbeing in the middle of things.
I wanted to share a quick storyabout this actually.
Uh, this happens to me basicallyevery Sunday because I'm a
pastor of a church and it'ssomething that I almost never
talk about.
But every single Sunday, I havethis period of time immediately
after the service is over whereI go into kind of like Pastor
(02:10):
John mode.
And I guess I've been PastorJohn mode the whole day, but uh,
or or I guess the whole morning,but I'm I'm specifically just
caring for the needs of otherpeople.
And so I'm asking people abouttheir day or their week.
I'm asking people aboutstruggles that they've maybe
shared with me in confidence, uhI'm kind of being like a host
(02:30):
slash therapist slash friendslash, you know, just making
sure that other practical thingshappen around the church.
We're like planning for ourChristmas program right now.
So I'm also like directing wheretables go and things like that.
And my kids have this realchallenge because I kind of go
into this mode where I somewhatignore them.
(02:52):
And my wife is around and she uhcomes to church basically every
week and she'll she'll be aroundto kind of care for them.
But at some point, she takes ourdaughter and she puts her in the
car and she drives home becauseit's nap time.
But I often have to stay beyondthat point.
And so here are my kids, andthey will just come up to me and
they will just like interrupt areally personal conversation.
(03:15):
Oftentimes, and you know, I'llhave to take somebody to like
another room and I'll have tolike assign somebody, a
caregiver or somebody who'saround to be like, okay, keep an
eye on my kids.
I have to physically remove andseparate myself from them
because if they know where I am,they are gonna come and find me.
And it happened today.
We were setting up, like I said,tables and stuff for this Santa
(03:39):
Lucia festival that our churchdoes.
It's a Swedish Christmasfestival where we have this
teenage girl.
This is the kind of thehighlights.
We have a giant Swedish mealcatered.
It's like awesome.
We have a Scandinavian folkgroup who plays.
I play a character the wholetime, the whole evening.
I'm like this character, thisSwedish guy.
(03:59):
And so I talk in a reallySwedish accent, and I just kind
of do these things.
And I I'll actually speakSwedish for part of it.
Uh, I write it out ahead of timebecause I'm not very good at
Swedish.
And um it's just kind of thisweird cultural thing.
There's a teenage girl at onepoint in the whole thing who
walks down the aisle with litcandles on her head, like actual
(04:19):
fire.
It's it's a real, it's it's it'svery cultural.
It's it's that's what I'llthat's how I'll put it.
And so I'm organizing for thisand I'm trying to do stuff, and
my kids just keep coming up tome.
And every single time I try andlike do something, my kids are
like, dad, dad, dad, dad, dad,can I show you this?
Can I show you this?
Can I do this?
Can I do this?
And finally, I'm just like, gofind someplace to be.
(04:41):
Because it's just like, I don'tknow.
I I didn't like yell at them,but I was like, guys, you just
gotta go find someplace to be.
I I I'm not available right now.
And so I started kept thinking,like, oh man, like I gotta do an
an episode on this, becausethat's not how I should have
responded in that moment.
I could have done some otherthings better, I could have been
working with them.
Uh, thankfully, they did go andfind something else.
(05:02):
It's okay to tell your kids,like, hey, I need some space
right now to do like dad's doingwork stuff.
And it's so rare that I'm thatI'm like that.
Uh, but but it does happen.
It does happen.
And so it's okay to do that ifif you've ever done that.
Don't feel bad.
No, just know that I've donethat.
I do that.
But there are better ways thatwe can talk about interrupting.
And so I want to jump into ourfirst question, which comes from
(05:24):
Kayla with a K from Instagram.
This one was DM'd in.
And it says, John, I have aquestion if you're wondering if
you can answer for me.
My four-year-old literallycannot let me finish a sentence
ever.
Like if I'm talking to myhusband about anything,
literally last night it wasabout toilet paper.
She will wedge herself inbetween us and start yelling,
(05:46):
mom, mom, mom, until I look ather.
I swear I'm trying to bepatient, but it makes me feel
disrespected.
Or like she's not learningmanners.
My husband keeps saying that I'mletting her run the show.
Am I?
Or is this just what four is?
I don't know.
I can't really tell anymore.
Kayla, this is a great, greatquestion.
(06:09):
And the I I love that you frameit around like, is this just
what four looks like?
And my answer to that is, yeah,in some ways, this is just what
four looks like.
I have a almost like a five anda half year old, I have an
almost four-year-old.
And I'll tell you, myfour-year-old uh doesn't
(06:29):
struggle with this, my almostfour-year-old doesn't struggle
with this nearly as much asother kids, my other kids that
I've had, specifically myoldest, when he was younger.
And he's still to this day, he'snine.
He struggles with this.
He struggles to not be in themiddle of the conversation.
And my guess is, Kayla, thatyour four-year-old is an oldest,
because oldests really strugglewith this idea.
(06:51):
They struggle with this ushaving kind of a world or
conversations outside of them.
And specifically, what theystruggle with is just
controlling their inhibitions.
They have this limited braindevelopment where it comes to
working memory.
And so the second something popsinto their head, they have no
(07:11):
ability to control thatinhibition to just like blurt
out what's going on.
And as I'm going to talk aboutin the next question as well,
because we had a person who'stalking about when they're on
the phone, it can also bedependent.
It can, it can also kind of rearup specifically in moments when
our attention is specificallydrawn away from them.
(07:33):
So what happens in those momentsis our kid literally is looking
for this like attachment to us.
And when they see our attentionstray from them, this can
actually feel it can it can feelto their nervous system.
I know this is kind of crazy tosay, but it can feel to their
nervous system like a threat.
Like, like somehow, if we startpaying attention to something
(07:56):
else, we won't be as aware oftheir needs and what's going on
with them.
And so kids have a really,really hard time with us
diverting our attention awayfrom them.
And what this is, the the fancyterm for this is state-dependent
executive functioning.
So basically, what this means isthat they can do some of these
(08:18):
executive functioning tasks atthree at four years old in
certain environments, likewaiting and like waiting their
turn.
Maybe all four-year-oldsstruggle with sharing and things
like that, but but they canmaybe in certain environments,
like at school, they can wait tobe called on when it's time to
speak.
But when they're with you, theykind of lose all ability to do
(08:41):
that.
And let this is what I'm goingto talk about again with the
next one, because the kid's alittle bit older.
But I would even start to thinkof it in those terms right now.
And understanding that that'swhat's going on, that they
literally have this inability tocontrol their inhibitions.
They have an inability tocontrol their kind of desire to
(09:01):
just blurt out and get yourattention.
We have to give them a reframeof something alternative, a
behavior that works, that isn'tjust saying, mom, mom, mom, mom,
mom, every single time we'retalking to uh, you know, your
husband about toilet paper orwhatever else, right?
Like obviously that's a kind ofa funny example because it's I
(09:22):
don't want to say it's just yourhusband, but it's it's you know,
your husband, it's a personwho's in close relationship.
It's probably even morefrustrating when that happens
when you're out with a friendwith your with your daughter, or
when you're on a work call orsomething like that, and she
can't handle that waiting.
And so we have to give kids analternative behavior because in
(09:44):
their brain, they they don'thave an ability to just wait in
the abstract.
And part of this is literallythat they don't have a really
clear sense of time yet.
So I said at the beginning ofthe episode in the intro that we
were going to talk a little bitabout kids' understanding or
perspective on time.
Kids really struggle because ofjust the way that their brain is
(10:06):
growing, that they really,really struggle to understand
how to wait without having avery clear thing, like a timer
or something like that.
And so what happens in thosemoments, when that happens, is
our kids they when we say like,okay, wait for a minute or wait
(10:27):
for two minutes, they literallyhave this experience of feeling
like that experience is going tobe forever.
And so this is why often when wetalk about kids who struggle to
wait, what we're really talkingabout is kids who don't have a
clear sense of time andunderstanding how long a period
(10:50):
of time is.
And so this all comes to a headwhen we're trying to do
something in a time like that'stime sensitive, like finish this
conversation.
And our kid just cannot cope,they cannot handle it because
five minutes to them feels likean hour.
So if you say, like, I'm gonnabe done in this conversation in
a minute, it feels like that youit's either you're done now or
(11:13):
you're not done now.
And if you're not done now, I'mjust gonna have a meltdown
because you know it's not nowyet.
So I would really want toreplace that.
And I keep saying we shouldreplace this with the behavior,
but the behavior comes fromMontessori background, at least
that's where I first learnedabout it.
The behavior is to give them aphysical thing to do with their
body, to simultaneously alertyou that they need your
(11:37):
attention or that they'redesiring your attention without
being unnecessarily rude ordisruptive.
And this is really great tostart at four years old because
you're gonna have this tool.
And like I said, mynine-year-old still does this.
But what you're gonna have themdo is literally walk up to you
and put their hand on your arm,just resting, not grab you, not
(11:59):
slap you, but put their hand onyour arm.
And this essentially says to youas the parent, okay, I am
looking to get your attention.
Please, I'm it's kind of likeraising your hand in class.
Please, I'm asking you to giveme your attention as soon as
possible.
And oftentimes what parents willdo, you don't have to do this.
I actually never remember to dothis.
(12:19):
It still works.
But what parents will do isthey'll take their other hand.
So say my kid puts his hand onmy right arm, take my left hand
and cover his hand toacknowledge, okay, I see you, I
hear you, you're looking for myintention.
And this bypasses thatinhibition control because now
they they have this inhibit,they have this uh inability to
(12:42):
restrict and control theirimpulse to interrupt you, but
now they're able to do that in away that's not disrespectful by
putting their hand on on theiron your arm.
So it's kind of an end-aroundway of getting around the fact
that their brain is literallynot mature enough to wait in a
practical sense and just tellingthem, okay, it'll be a minute,
usually doesn't work becausethat feels like an interminable
(13:04):
amount of time in the brain of afour-year-old.
So what I would do in this caseis I would just literally say,
okay, every time I'm talking,what you got to do is just come
up and put your hand on me.
And I promise you that as soonas I can and can get out of that
conversation, or as soon as Ican give you my attention, I
will give you my attention.
And it doesn't mean that you'regonna immediately drop
(13:26):
everything and do whatever it isthey're asking you to do.
It doesn't mean that they'regonna put their hand on you and
say, I want to leave and go homeright now, and you're gonna go,
okay, great, you've you've notinterrupted me, and so therefore
I'm just gonna give you whateveryou want.
It's just to say, look,attention is a natural desire
for kids, and it feelsthreatening to them when they
don't have their caregivers'attention.
(13:48):
And so that's that's one of theways that we can get around that
is to essentially give them atool to when our attention
shifts, to get our attentionback without being unnecessarily
disruptive.
And what the the key here,really, the the most basic level
in all of this is to understandthat when our kids are
(14:09):
interrupting us, it is becauseto our kids, our attention is a
need.
It's like an it's like food orwater.
And that's because theirsurvival depends on our
attention.
This is why attention andattachment are so deeply
connected.
This is why we talk aboutattunement.
I'm using a lot of A wordstoday.
We talk about attunement andattachment.
(14:30):
And attunement is just givingyour attention to such an extent
to your child where you're ableto pick up on their feelings and
reflect their feelings back tothem.
And so understanding that whenyour kid is asking for your
attention, they're actuallyasking for your attachment can
be really, really helpfulbecause it allows you to then
realize, okay, they're not beingannoying, they're not being
(14:53):
entitled.
And these are all the thingsthat we hear in our own head,
right?
This is the thing that yourhusband's saying.
He's she's you're letting herrun the show.
She's being entitled, she'sbeing a dictator.
All of that language comes froma misunderstanding.
And I'm I'm not blaming yourhusband, right?
Like I think these things too.
But all of that, in especiallyin the heat of the moment, and
that's the thing.
When when this happens, you gettriggered and then you don't
(15:15):
respond the way that you wantto.
Or I should say you react ratherthan respond.
And then it just kind of makeseverything worse.
So the the main way to reframethis for you and the for all of
us as we continue on with thesequestions, is to understand that
all of these attention-seekingbehaviors, like saying, Mom,
mom, mom, mom, mom, in themiddle of a conversation, are
(15:37):
just them saying, I want to makesure that you're still there.
And maybe there's more thingsgoing on here, like they have an
inability to like hold on to athought, but maybe I'll talk
about that in a minute.
So brass axe, replace thebehavior, give them a new neural
pathway.
And that new neural pathway,instead of screaming, mom, mom,
mom, mom, mom, is going to be tocome over, put the hand on you.
(16:00):
And this is gonna be kind of mytip for all of these, but it's
especially important with withinthe first one with a
four-year-old, where some of thestuff that's not gonna they're
they're not gonna be able to dosome of the other things, like
go and set their own timer orwhatever.
So hopefully that gives you somesome ability to regulate some of
(16:24):
that.
And I want to move on to my nextone, which was an emailed
question.
Thank you, uh, for an emailedquestion.
We're always excited to receiveemails podcast at
wholeparentacademy.com.
You can send in your questionsvia email, it's the easiest way
for me to sort them.
But this one comes from Jeremy,and Jeremy says, Okay, my
(16:48):
seven-year-old constantlyinterrupts me, but only when I'm
on the phone.
Like if I'm talking to him, he'sfine.
(18:32):
But the second I pick up a callfor work, he absolutely loses
his mind.
He suddenly needs me urgentlyfor no reason, it drives me
insane.
Honestly, it feels intentional.
Like he knows that's the onething that stresses me out.
Well, Jeremy, I hear a couple ofthings going on here, and uh I'm
(18:52):
gonna kind of try and take themin different places and
hopefully we'll come up with asolution.
But first and foremost, I havekids, my other kids.
I said that I have one kid whostruggles when I'm talking face
to face with somebody.
I have other kids who really,really struggle when I get on
the phone and all of a suddenthey start fighting with each
(19:15):
other.
And I definitely have toldmyself that kind of I've
reframed that for myself as welland said, oh my gosh, they're
only doing this because I'm onthe phone and they're trying to
get my attention.
But I want to kind of flip thaton its head and say that when
your kid is experiencing one ofthese, and this is where I'm
(19:37):
gonna use that fancy term again,state dependent executive
functioning lack, right?
When they're experiencing that,what's actually happening is
that that experience feelsthreatening to them.
So it's not that it feels likethey want you to not be able to
do it.
(19:57):
It's that they feel like all ofa sudden my dad isn't paying
attention to me.
And what if I need him?
And so I'm going to test theboundaries, or I'm gonna test
the waters and ask for a bunchof stuff, or I'm going to
suddenly not be able to tie myown shoes, or I'm not gonna be
(20:18):
able to find this thing that I'mlooking for, or all of a sudden
I'm gonna get hungry, or all ofa sudden I'm gonna need to go to
the bathroom and I'm gonna havea problem with that.
All of this stuff, and I gethe's seven, a lot of this stuff
he should be able to do on hisown.
But all of that stuff is himfeeling like I don't know if I'm
safe if my dad isn't payingattention to me, and he knows
(20:41):
that when you're on the phone,that is one place and time where
you're definitely not payingattention to him.
And so the first thing that Iwould do is I would just get
curious about that with him.
I would the next time you haveto take a phone call and this
happens, I would not react inthe moment, do whatever you do
(21:02):
to survive, and then and and youI don't want to say you should
ignore him, but you don't haveto immediately give in to
everything, right?
Unless you know, hey, this isjust gonna be easier for me,
then do whatever you need to doto survive.
But you don't have to give in tothat.
Like you can build somefrustration tolerance here.
It's something that we've talkedabout in previous episodes.
But what I would be looking foris an opportunity really to have
(21:26):
a conversation after the fact,let's say 20, 30, 45 minutes
later.
So after the phone call, youreturn to Stasis.
He goes back into his normal wayof being where he doesn't
constantly need you foreverything.
Now I wait for him to beactively engaged with something
like drawing or doing whateverhe's doing, not watching a
(21:47):
screen, not on his tablet orsomething like that.
Because I promise you, at thatpoint, then their brain is like
off.
What you're looking for is theirbrain to somewhat be in like a
receptive learning state.
And then sit down and go, okay,so when I was on the phone, you
all of a sudden just lost it.
What's up with that?
I I want to know.
(22:08):
And don't go into this with theassumption that you have all the
answers.
Because really, the best thingthat you can do here is to get
him to understand why he's doingit.
And at seven, you have a realability to do that.
And so I would really go intothat conversation in the most
basic way of just saying, hey,so this is what happened.
(22:31):
Tell me more about why you thinkthat happened.
Tell me more about what wasgoing on with you when that
happened.
Well, I was just worried thatthis, this.
And you might just say, I don'tknow.
And then you dig down, you canretell the story.
Go, okay, so I was on the phone,and then all of a sudden you
asked me to, you know, tie yourshoes for you or do this.
And you know how to do that.
(22:51):
So like I'm just wondering howcome that happened?
And again, we're not lookinglike a lot of us hear these
types of ways of talking to kidswith this curiosity.
And it can feel prettythreatening to those of us who
grew up in punitive environmentsbecause oftentimes those types
of questions were rhetorical andthey were just like waiting for
us to, you know, hey, it'swhat's wrong with you?
(23:13):
Explain yourself.
And then you say, Well, I wasjust, and then you go, no, you
weren't thinking at all, and nowyou're gonna get a punishment.
But really, what we're lookingfor here is that curiosity to
get him to trying to unpackwhat's going on.
And I think a real problem thatparents have, um, a real
misconception that we have, isthat we know our kids better
(23:35):
than they know themselves.
In fact, when I wrote thatsentence in the book, that kids
by the age of six have an innerworld that's robust enough that
they know themselves far betterthan we know them, I got
pushback.
Like I got pushback from myeditor who doesn't know any of
like really about any of thisstuff.
And so it's not like he had likehe was like a PhD neuroscientist
who was like, well, actually,let me tell you.
(23:56):
No, he was just like, I don'tthink I really are you sure?
I'm pretty sure I know my kidbetter than they know
themselves.
And I was like, no, no, no.
Once they have an inner world,like you don't know what's
driving their actions andbehaviors.
You sometimes we can come at itfrom an objective perspective
that understands who's wiser.
(24:18):
In the same way, by the way,that a therapist can help you to
understand or unpack why you'reparticipating in the same
destructive, you know, copingmechanisms that are maladaptive
because they're an outsider.
We can be that for our kids, butit doesn't mean that we know
more than about them than theyknow about themselves.
And I really would start withthat.
(24:38):
I would just go, okay, so it,and then I would make a plan.
I would go, okay, so the nexttime I'm on my phone, what can
we do?
What you know, what what do youthink would be a good plan for
well, that's gonna be the timewhen I can do this or that or
the other.
And here's some examples ofthings you can do.
Number one, you can set a timer.
This is good for you and goodfor your kid.
(25:00):
Obviously, if you don't knowwhen you're gonna be off the
call, you can't set a timer, butyou can set a timer.
That's a good, that's a goodone.
You can uh make a questionsparking lot.
This is a fun one where you canhave a like a post-it stack of
post-it notes.
And if you have aseven-year-old, he might be able
to kind of write some things outor draw some pictures or
something, depending on how uhgood he is with his uh verbal
(25:23):
skill or um written literaryskills.
But um you can make a questionsparking lot where he can just
like start handing you stickynotes, like, okay, here are all
the things that I need your helpwith, and they can kind of stack
up.
And then when you get off thephone, you go, okay, well, I'm
gonna start going through thesethings.
Okay, you needed me to put somepeanut butter on your bread for
you.
Okay, okay.
Oh, oh no, you already did thatone for yourself.
(25:44):
Okay, you just drew this pictureand you just said, well, you,
oh, you want me to cut the crustoff your sandwich.
Okay, now I understand.
And you go through it and it'skind of like a fun game, then,
right?
As your kid comes up with liketasks for you to do while you're
on the phone, it gives them,keeps them organized or um uh
distracted and organizing theirthoughts rather than constantly
just bombarding you with thosethose thoughts in real time.
(26:06):
Again, because even aseven-year-old does lack some of
that impulse control.
So when we're talking aboutimpulse control with
four-year-old, that's veryobvious to most of us.
Toddlers lack impulse control.
Yeah, and so the sky is blue,right?
Like everybody knows that.
But kids slowly develop impulsecontrol.
And kids who are ADHD orneurodivergent develop impulse
(26:28):
control even more slowly thankids who are neurotypical.
And so I don't expect aseven-year-old to have great
impulse control.
I I in fact, I expect them toonly have the the barest minimum
amount of impulse control.
But you can frame some of thesethings.
You can make a plan of like,here are the things that we're
gonna do when I'm on the phone.
And that may be a time when forhim, that is a time to utilize,
(26:53):
you know, a screen or somethinglike that, because for him, he
he that that's what he wants todo.
And that's an okay thing, right?
If you're on a work call.
Not if it's an everyday I'm onthe work calls for three and a
half hours, and so you have tocome up with some other thing to
do.
But at that point, I would say,okay, well, if you're on work
calls for three and a half hoursevery day, we also just have to
(27:14):
figure out a better way of ofmanaging work-life balance
because it's we can ask our kidsto wait only so much, right?
But having a visual timer andthings like that, that can help
with that again, that inabilityto understand the large, the,
the, the time, the, the timeblindness that kids have, where
(27:35):
they don't, you know, an hourfeels like a day and or a week
or a month.
Five minutes can feel like twohours.
Giving them a visual timer canreally help with that as well.
So those are some tips andtactics and strategies.
But actually, I think that thosewill be less effective than
anything that you come up withwith your son.
I think that the most effectivetool here is actually to just
(27:58):
sit down with your son, go backand forth, talk about this, talk
about what happened, talk aboutthe problem, replay the game
footage, right?
If he doesn't know what you'retalking about, when you say,
you're having a hard time when Iwas on the phone, you just walk
back through.
Yeah, so this happened and thishappened and this happened, and
now we're we're not judging,we're literally just describing.
So I was on the phone, and thenyou needed me to do this or tie
(28:20):
your shoes or whatever it was.
And what was that about?
Because I know that other timesyou don't usually need my help
with that.
So I just am looking for, youknow, oh, I just wanted you.
Okay.
Well, then what can we plan todo next time that you want me
when I'm on the phone as analternative?
And again, we can do like thehand-on-arm thing, but in my for
my money, I'm looking at thisand going, by seven, he can make
(28:44):
his own plan.
And also the hand-on-arm thingworks definitely less when
you're on the phone because uhthe whole hand-on arm thing is
because you don't want to beinterrupted in an in-person
conversation rather than uhbeing interrupted on the phone,
he can be putting post-it notesnext to you the whole time and
that doesn't bother you, orshould you know, maybe it does
(29:04):
bother you, but it wouldn'tbother me.
So you guys come up with a plantogether, and I think that
you'll be a lot better off.
But you have to name this stuff.
A lot of us think that like wecan just do this stuff without
ever going to that place withour kids and naming it.
You gotta name this stuff, andthat's a big piece of it.
And so I just encourage you todo that.
Anything that's mentionable ismanageable.
That's a Fred Rogersism.
(29:26):
Okay, I have one more question.
It comes from inside mymembership.
I asked them if I could share myresponse that I had given to
them as uh part of the podcastbecause I thought it was a great
question that related to this.
And so here is the question fromEli inside the membership.
Uh, Eli says, I just don't knowhow to handle interrupting
(29:47):
without being mean.
My five-year-old will waitsometimes, but other times she
just jumps in and I snap and Isay, stop interrupting, because
that's literally what my parentssaid to us.
I don't want to be that intense.
I also can't have her thinkingthat she can just talk over
people all the time.
I don't know what's the linebetween teaching patience and
(30:08):
shutting her down.
Sorry, I'm rambling.
I'm climbing, she's climbing onme right now, lol.
So uh yes, Eli, thank you againfor sharing this with uh the
podcast community.
But the thing that I told Eli,because I had some time to think
about it, was we talked a littlebit about that time processing
(30:29):
piece.
And specifically, temporalprocessing, and when I say
temporal, I'm not sayingtempora, the uh battering of
delicious deep frying ofvegetables and things that you
can get at uh Asian restaurants.
I'm saying temporal, meaningtime processing.
And temporal processing happensin the I wrote it down for
(30:52):
myself because I'm not that uhquick on my feet, in the dorsal
lateral prefrontal cortex.
And what happens in betweendorsal, what I mean by dorsal
lateral uh relies on the dorsallateral prefrontal cortex, is
that they have to be able tobasically their brain has to be
so, their prefrontal cortex,which is the last part of the
(31:14):
brain that develops, has to beso developed that it can jump
between different sides of theprefrontal cortex in order to,
in real time, in order tounderstand how to process time.
This is why kids struggle sodeeply to have the sense of how
long something takes or be ableto hold their you know patience
(31:37):
for a longer amount of time.
It's because literally, when itin real time, they have to be
able to do a very complicatedbrain process in order to
understand time.
And in in order to do that, thatthe just the ability to hold on
to a thought like is really,really challenging for a kid.
(31:58):
And it can be challenging for,again, I know that this is
challenging for kids becauseit's challenging for me as even
as an adult with ADHD.
Like it's one of my struggles isholding a thought when I'm in
the midst of other things.
Sometimes I wander on thepodcast and I forget what I'm
saying.
That's a great example of whereit struggles where I struggle
(32:18):
with this.
And when you're stressed, man,it gets so much harder because
then your prefrontal cortexstarts to go offline because
you're in your stress response.
And kids obviously are thrown intheir stress response more
quickly, and also they justdon't have a fully developed
prefrontal cortex to begin with,especially not at five years
old.
And so you can see where all ofthis stuff can just become very,
(32:39):
very challenging for a kid.
And so we are thinking aboutthis as just, oh, well, just
wait and don't interrupt me inthe middle of a conversation
with somebody, and I just wantto scream at them, stop
interrupting, because it seemsso simple.
But actually, it's much morecomplicated.
It requires tons of mentalgymnastics and emotional
regulation techniques and allother things.
(33:01):
And then we wind up lashing outand snapping at them and
screaming, you know, snapping,as Eli said, stop interrupting.
And what does that do?
It sends them deeper into theirdysregulation, which shuts down
their prefrontal cortex.
What little development theyhave in their prefrontal cortex
is shut off entirely, which justmakes them, you know, lose it.
And why do we just scream stopinterrupting?
(33:23):
Because we feel like we'reraising an entitled, you know,
uh narcissistic monster who justcan't, you know, think about
anybody but themselves.
And so you can see where likeall of these different layers,
there's a very simple problem inin on the surface.
Well, my kid talks over otherpeople, or my kid talks over me
(33:45):
at the dinner table.
Actually, it's a much deeperproblem that has to do with
brain development, it has to dowith our own childhood baggage,
that we were probably told this.
This is what Eli said, right?
I was I was told to stopinterrupting when I interrupted.
So now I feel like that's theappropriate response, or maybe I
(34:07):
don't even think it's theappropriate response, but I feel
that it's the appropriateresponse because my nervous
system has been trained thatwhen a child interrupts, this is
how you respond.
Because that was what was doneto me.
And so all of these thingsbecome this whirling, swirling
tornado.
And as they all interact witheach other, we take this very
(34:31):
innocuous problem that is agetypical of a five-year-old for
all of the reasons that we'vesaid.
They struggle to hold on totheir thoughts, they have no
sense of time of how longthey're they've waited or how
long they will have to wait,they struggle with impulse
control, they feel like whenanyone's not talking to them
that it's a lack of connectionand attachment to them.
(34:51):
All of these things happeningsimultaneously trick triggers
their amygdala.
So they jump into theconversation, which then
triggers us, and then we furthertrigger them, we send them
deeper into the dysregulation,and all of a sudden, we we have
a kid who's melting down at thedinner table.
And it feels like it's becausewe didn't let them dominate the
(35:13):
conversation.
But what it's really ishappening is that there was a
lot of other pieces, movingpieces going on.
And we just responded or reactedin that moment in a way that
came from our own baggage.
And so, how would I react if Icould react better?
And sometimes I don't reactbetter, just totally, like I
(35:34):
said, began the whole episode byjust telling I just told my kids
like go find something to do,right?
That's kind of stopinterrupting.
It's not that different.
Um, I think it was a little,maybe, maybe I was a little bit
better, but also I was, youknow, I was in Pastor John mode,
which means that I probably doparent a little bit more
effectively, no matter what,just because I know I'm being
(35:55):
watched by people.
Uh, most of them don't knowabout whole parent, or or if
they know about it, they don'treally follow it or any or
anything.
But, you know, uh either evenso, when you're in front of
people, oftentimes you you kindof temper your parenting
differently.
I might not be as kind if I hadbeen, you know, triggered like
that and it had just been me andmy wife around.
(36:16):
Hopefully, I would be.
I'm trying to do better.
But uh what I would say if I hadall of my faculties about me,
and if I had done somejournaling work about this,
which I've done, and I wasreally able to emotionally
regulate in that moment ratherthan r reacting, I responded.
The thing, the way that I wouldrespond would be to turn to my
(36:38):
child and say, I want to hearwhat you have to say.
But I need to finish listeningto your brother, your dad,
first.
You can put your hand on my armand let me know that you're here
and that you want to tell mesomething, and I really care
(36:59):
about what you have to say.
And I think that this is kind ofas we come to the end of the
episode, I'm trying to keepthese episodes a little bit
shorter and more digestible.
As we come to the episode end ofthe episode, I think this is
really where I want to land.
Because if the fundamental needthat is not being met in our
(37:19):
kids in these moments isattachment and is attention, one
of the ultimate hacks here is tojust say, I want to listen to
you.
I actually really care aboutwhat you're saying.
And I'll do this now.
If if I'm it's I don't do thismuch when I'm uh when my kids
interrupt me in conversations,but when my kids interrupt me,
(37:41):
uh I'm working on something, ifI'm you know, working on
something for a whole parent,I'm writing or whatever, and my
kids walk into the room andthey're like, hey, dad, dad,
dad, I want to show you thisthing, I want to show you this.
I will actually stop what I'mdoing, not to look at their
thing, but to turn to them, givethem my full attention for one
sentence to say, I really wantto see that.
(38:01):
I have to finish this, otherwiseI'll be distracted when I'm
talking to you.
I want to see that.
Can you leave it right there?
Or can you come back and find mein five minutes?
You can go set a timer,whatever.
But I start from the place of Ireally care about what you're
having to say, what you have tosay, and that's why I need to
(38:22):
finish what I'm doing over here.
I think that can be one of themost powerful things that you
can say to your kid, because itkind of does everything that
we've talked about up to thispoint.
It it gives them the permissionto check in with you and know
that you're attentive to theirneeds and their wants and their
(38:43):
desires, that you're notabandoning them, that you're not
just ignoring them, but at thesame time, it protects the space
to say you're gonna have towait.
And understand, my kids do notlike waiting, even after I say
that.
But it becomes a manageablething that's building their
frustration tolerance and theirpatience and their emotional
(39:04):
distress tolerance rather thanjust sending them into
dysregulation because I snap atthem.
And so I'm not saying, Eli, thatyou did that you that I have not
done exactly what you didbecause I started the whole
episode of the story about how Ido that sometimes, especially
when I'm in stressfulenvironments myself.
What I'm saying is on my bestdays as a parent, which I hope
(39:27):
are more than my not best days,I start with, I really care
about what you're doing.
But notice I didn't say that onmy best days as a parent, I drop
everything for my kids at alltimes.
Because one surefire way to makea kid entitled is to constantly
drop everything that you'redoing and make the world revolve
around them.
(39:48):
Because then they'll receive themessage that the world revolves
around them.
Not because they're a bad personor they're inherently
narcissistic or because there'ssome sort of problem with their
brain, but because you've saidthat to them through your
actions.
And so I think it's important tosay stop interrupting.
But we can do that in kinderways.
(40:09):
And we can give our kidsalternative behaviors and we can
understand developmentallywhat's going on so we don't take
those things personally.
And ultimately, the way to raisea non-entitled kid is that they
are going to have to waitsometimes, but that the waiting
does not have to be an attentionor an attachment rupture, that
(40:30):
the waiting does not have to bemaladaptive and hurtful and
painful for them.
And I think that that's where wecan end the episode.
Because in all of these things,I did I, you know, it's easy to
just say, well, just let theminterrupt you because eventually
they'll grow out of that.
And and some of the parenting isthat.
They just do grow out of some ofthese behaviors.
(40:51):
But I think the harder thing todo and the better thing to do is
to say, no, I'm gonna, I'm gonnastay in this.
I'm gonna talk to them about itafter it happens, if it keeps
happening in one particulartime, I'm gonna give them
alternative behaviors to do,whatever.
But most importantly, I'm gonnamake sure that they know that I
delight in their attention, thatI love giving them my full and
(41:14):
undivided attention.
And that in order to do that, Iactually have to finish what I'm
doing before I give you my fulland undivided attention.
And by the way, here's an eggtimer.
And kids love egg timers.
You should get your get an eggtimer.
I wish I had a sponsor that justgave me egg timers to give to
you.
Anyway, that's what I got foryou in this episode.
I hope you enjoyed it.
(41:34):
I hope it gave you something tothink about.
And uh yeah, I'll try and dothis again tomorrow night.
An episode a day, as much as Ican.
See you next time.
Thank you again for listening tothis episode of the Whole Parent
Podcast.
(41:55):
If you are listening to thisright now, yes, you in your car
driving somewhere on a walk withyour kids, perhaps your kids are
melting down and you'relistening to this on your
headphones with the noisecancellation turned on.
Whatever you're doing whileyou're listening, doing the
dishes at night after your kidsgo to bed, I don't know.
That would just be me if I waslistening.
Stop right now.
(42:16):
I have three quick favors to askyou.
I promise they're not going totake you very long.
The first one, very, very easy.
Go in to wherever you'relistening to this podcast and
rate it five stars.
That's one, two, three, four,five stars.
The more five star reviews thatour podcast gets as we
accumulate episodes, the morelikely it is to be pushed out to
more parents who are searchingfor parenting podcasts to solve
(42:38):
their problems.
Whatever you got out of thisepisode, whether it was
something that to try with yourkids, whether it was a new way
to think about parenting, maybethis episode was not
specifically about a problemthat you're having, but you're
somebody in your life who'shaving this problem.
Go in and rate it five stars.
And if you have an additional 30seconds, that first one only
takes you 10 seconds.
If you have an additional 30seconds, just type a few words
(43:00):
for me to read.
I'd love to read, I'd love toread the reviews.
If there's something specificthat's helped you, write it out.
It helps me to know what weshould keep doing here on the
podcast, week in and week out.
The second question that I havefor you or request that I have
for you, favor, let's call it,is to share this episode with
somebody in your life who youthink could use it.
(43:20):
It might be a parent, anotherparent in your kid's class.
It might be a sibling who hasyoung kids, maybe it's your
kid's teacher or a faith leaderin your life, whomever it is
that you think should have thisepisode of the podcast or any
episode of the podcast, send itdirectly to them.
I know it's vulnerable to sharepodcasts with people who you
might not have that close of arelationship with, or even more
(43:42):
vulnerable if you do have aclose relationship with them.
But I promise you, so many ofthe people who listen to this
podcast listened not becausethey followed me on social
media, but because they got apersonal recommendation from
somebody in their life who said,Hey, this guy has a way of
talking about parenting thatjust works for me.
You don't know if they listen toit or not, they might never
reply, but maybe, just maybe,they'll love the episode so much
(44:03):
that they become your newparenting partner out there in
the world, doing things the sameway that you are, and you might
have just made your newparenting bestie.
The last thing that you can dois definitely the biggest ask
from me, but it is to go over toSubstack.
That link is down below in thebio, and to subscribe so that
these episodes can keep comingto you.
(44:24):
Paid subscriptions on Substackis the only way currently that I
am being funded here on theWhole Parent Podcast.
That is the only money that Ireceive.
It is$5 a month.
I think that this podcast isworth the price of a coffee for
you.
If it's not worth the price of acoffee for you, obviously don't
do it.
But if you're extra cheap likeme, you can just subscribe
annually.
I know that you're gonna listenfor the rest of the year.
(44:45):
If you know that you're gonnalisten for the rest of the year,
just give me 50 bucks up front,and then you don't have to think
about it coming out of yourcredit card every single month.
Those are the ways that you cansupport me.
And as always, I think thatyou're a great parent already.
But I do hope this episode gaveyou something to make you a
little bit better.
Take care.
If your child interrupts you constantly, you
are absolutely not alone.
Every parent that I know hitsthis moment where the
interruptions start to feeldisrespectful and chaotic, and
you just have this sense oflike, they're old enough, they
should know better.
In today's episode, we're goingto look at why kids interrupt,
what impulse control and thedeveloping sense of time have to
(00:22):
do with this, specifically howour kids process time, and why
so many of the behaviors that weread as rude are actually signs
of the brain still having tolearn how to pause, hold a
thought, and trust that theirneeds are still gonna matter,
even if they wait.
But the beautiful part of allthis is that there are some
practical things that we can doto support the growing brain and
(00:43):
reduce interruptions withoutshaming or shutting them down.
Let's get into it.
All right, so as uh you join meback out here on the porch, I've
been recording, trying to recordlike an episode almost every
day, guys.
And the reason that I've beentrying to do this is because I'm
(01:04):
just trying to get back in thehabit of recording these
episodes and just getting thiscontent out because so many
people have come back and said,this is my favorite thing that
you do, John.
Like your book is great, but thepodcast is like the best part of
my day or the best part of myweek.
And if I'm recording podcasts inthis way where I'm mostly just
answering questions andspitballing and just kind of
(01:28):
talking about parenting, it's alot easier for me to pump out a
lot more.
So obviously, today I've alreadysaid what we're talking about.
We're talking about kidsinterrupting, we're talking
about kids being rude anddisrespectful sometimes.
This is especially prevalentover the holiday season.
We're in the middle of theholiday season when we're having
these family get togethers andour kids are just kind of
(01:49):
constantly interrupting us andbeing in the middle of things.
I wanted to share a quick storyabout this actually.
Uh, this happens to me basicallyevery Sunday because I'm a
pastor of a church and it'ssomething that I almost never
talk about.
But every single Sunday, I havethis period of time immediately
after the service is over whereI go into kind of like Pastor
(02:10):
John mode.
And I guess I've been PastorJohn mode the whole day, but uh,
or or I guess the whole morning,but I'm I'm specifically just
caring for the needs of otherpeople.
And so I'm asking people abouttheir day or their week.
I'm asking people aboutstruggles that they've maybe
shared with me in confidence, uhI'm kind of being like a host
(02:30):
slash therapist slash friendslash, you know, just making
sure that other practical thingshappen around the church.
We're like planning for ourChristmas program right now.
So I'm also like directing wheretables go and things like that.
And my kids have this realchallenge because I kind of go
into this mode where I somewhatignore them.
(02:52):
And my wife is around and she uhcomes to church basically every
week and she'll she'll be aroundto kind of care for them.
But at some point, she takes ourdaughter and she puts her in the
car and she drives home becauseit's nap time.
But I often have to stay beyondthat point.
And so here are my kids, andthey will just come up to me and
they will just like interrupt areally personal conversation.
(03:15):
Oftentimes, and you know, I'llhave to take somebody to like
another room and I'll have tolike assign somebody, a
caregiver or somebody who'saround to be like, okay, keep an
eye on my kids.
I have to physically remove andseparate myself from them
because if they know where I am,they are gonna come and find me.
And it happened today.
We were setting up, like I said,tables and stuff for this Santa
(03:39):
Lucia festival that our churchdoes.
It's a Swedish Christmasfestival where we have this
teenage girl.
This is the kind of thehighlights.
We have a giant Swedish mealcatered.
It's like awesome.
We have a Scandinavian folkgroup who plays.
I play a character the wholetime, the whole evening.
I'm like this character, thisSwedish guy.
(03:59):
And so I talk in a reallySwedish accent, and I just kind
of do these things.
And I I'll actually speakSwedish for part of it.
Uh, I write it out ahead of timebecause I'm not very good at
Swedish.
And um it's just kind of thisweird cultural thing.
There's a teenage girl at onepoint in the whole thing who
walks down the aisle with litcandles on her head, like actual
(04:19):
fire.
It's it's a real, it's it's it'svery cultural.
It's it's that's what I'llthat's how I'll put it.
And so I'm organizing for thisand I'm trying to do stuff, and
my kids just keep coming up tome.
And every single time I try andlike do something, my kids are
like, dad, dad, dad, dad, dad,can I show you this?
Can I show you this?
Can I do this?
Can I do this?
And finally, I'm just like, gofind someplace to be.
(04:41):
Because it's just like, I don'tknow.
I I didn't like yell at them,but I was like, guys, you just
gotta go find someplace to be.
I I I'm not available right now.
And so I started kept thinking,like, oh man, like I gotta do an
an episode on this, becausethat's not how I should have
responded in that moment.
I could have done some otherthings better, I could have been
working with them.
Uh, thankfully, they did go andfind something else.
(05:02):
It's okay to tell your kids,like, hey, I need some space
right now to do like dad's doingwork stuff.
And it's so rare that I'm thatI'm like that.
Uh, but but it does happen.
It does happen.
And so it's okay to do that ifif you've ever done that.
Don't feel bad.
No, just know that I've donethat.
I do that.
But there are better ways thatwe can talk about interrupting.
And so I want to jump into ourfirst question, which comes from
(05:24):
Kayla with a K from Instagram.
This one was DM'd in.
And it says, John, I have aquestion if you're wondering if
you can answer for me.
My four-year-old literallycannot let me finish a sentence
ever.
Like if I'm talking to myhusband about anything,
literally last night it wasabout toilet paper.
She will wedge herself inbetween us and start yelling,
(05:46):
mom, mom, mom, until I look ather.
I swear I'm trying to bepatient, but it makes me feel
disrespected.
Or like she's not learningmanners.
My husband keeps saying that I'mletting her run the show.
Am I?
Or is this just what four is?
I don't know.
I can't really tell anymore.
Kayla, this is a great, greatquestion.
(06:09):
And the I I love that you frameit around like, is this just
what four looks like?
And my answer to that is, yeah,in some ways, this is just what
four looks like.
I have a almost like a five anda half year old, I have an
almost four-year-old.
And I'll tell you, myfour-year-old uh doesn't
(06:29):
struggle with this, my almostfour-year-old doesn't struggle
with this nearly as much asother kids, my other kids that
I've had, specifically myoldest, when he was younger.
And he's still to this day, he'snine.
He struggles with this.
He struggles to not be in themiddle of the conversation.
And my guess is, Kayla, thatyour four-year-old is an oldest,
because oldests really strugglewith this idea.
(06:51):
They struggle with this ushaving kind of a world or
conversations outside of them.
And specifically, what theystruggle with is just
controlling their inhibitions.
They have this limited braindevelopment where it comes to
working memory.
And so the second something popsinto their head, they have no
(07:11):
ability to control thatinhibition to just like blurt
out what's going on.
And as I'm going to talk aboutin the next question as well,
because we had a person who'stalking about when they're on
the phone, it can also bedependent.
It can, it can also kind of rearup specifically in moments when
our attention is specificallydrawn away from them.
(07:33):
So what happens in those momentsis our kid literally is looking
for this like attachment to us.
And when they see our attentionstray from them, this can
actually feel it can it can feelto their nervous system.
I know this is kind of crazy tosay, but it can feel to their
nervous system like a threat.
Like, like somehow, if we startpaying attention to something
(07:56):
else, we won't be as aware oftheir needs and what's going on
with them.
And so kids have a really,really hard time with us
diverting our attention awayfrom them.
And what this is, the the fancyterm for this is state-dependent
executive functioning.
So basically, what this means isthat they can do some of these
(08:18):
executive functioning tasks atthree at four years old in
certain environments, likewaiting and like waiting their
turn.
Maybe all four-year-oldsstruggle with sharing and things
like that, but but they canmaybe in certain environments,
like at school, they can wait tobe called on when it's time to
speak.
But when they're with you, theykind of lose all ability to do
(08:41):
that.
And let this is what I'm goingto talk about again with the
next one, because the kid's alittle bit older.
But I would even start to thinkof it in those terms right now.
And understanding that that'swhat's going on, that they
literally have this inability tocontrol their inhibitions.
They have an inability tocontrol their kind of desire to
(09:01):
just blurt out and get yourattention.
We have to give them a reframeof something alternative, a
behavior that works, that isn'tjust saying, mom, mom, mom, mom,
mom, every single time we'retalking to uh, you know, your
husband about toilet paper orwhatever else, right?
Like obviously that's a kind ofa funny example because it's I
(09:22):
don't want to say it's just yourhusband, but it's it's you know,
your husband, it's a personwho's in close relationship.
It's probably even morefrustrating when that happens
when you're out with a friendwith your with your daughter, or
when you're on a work call orsomething like that, and she
can't handle that waiting.
And so we have to give kids analternative behavior because in
(09:44):
their brain, they they don'thave an ability to just wait in
the abstract.
And part of this is literallythat they don't have a really
clear sense of time yet.
So I said at the beginning ofthe episode in the intro that we
were going to talk a little bitabout kids' understanding or
perspective on time.
Kids really struggle because ofjust the way that their brain is
(10:06):
growing, that they really,really struggle to understand
how to wait without having avery clear thing, like a timer
or something like that.
And so what happens in thosemoments, when that happens, is
our kids they when we say like,okay, wait for a minute or wait
(10:27):
for two minutes, they literallyhave this experience of feeling
like that experience is going tobe forever.
And so this is why often when wetalk about kids who struggle to
wait, what we're really talkingabout is kids who don't have a
clear sense of time andunderstanding how long a period
(10:50):
of time is.
And so this all comes to a headwhen we're trying to do
something in a time like that'stime sensitive, like finish this
conversation.
And our kid just cannot cope,they cannot handle it because
five minutes to them feels likean hour.
So if you say, like, I'm gonnabe done in this conversation in
a minute, it feels like that youit's either you're done now or
(11:13):
you're not done now.
And if you're not done now, I'mjust gonna have a meltdown
because you know it's not nowyet.
So I would really want toreplace that.
And I keep saying we shouldreplace this with the behavior,
but the behavior comes fromMontessori background, at least
that's where I first learnedabout it.
The behavior is to give them aphysical thing to do with their
body, to simultaneously alertyou that they need your
(11:37):
attention or that they'redesiring your attention without
being unnecessarily rude ordisruptive.
And this is really great tostart at four years old because
you're gonna have this tool.
And like I said, mynine-year-old still does this.
But what you're gonna have themdo is literally walk up to you
and put their hand on your arm,just resting, not grab you, not
(11:59):
slap you, but put their hand onyour arm.
And this essentially says to youas the parent, okay, I am
looking to get your attention.
Please, I'm it's kind of likeraising your hand in class.
Please, I'm asking you to giveme your attention as soon as
possible.
And oftentimes what parents willdo, you don't have to do this.
I actually never remember to dothis.
(12:19):
It still works.
But what parents will do isthey'll take their other hand.
So say my kid puts his hand onmy right arm, take my left hand
and cover his hand toacknowledge, okay, I see you, I
hear you, you're looking for myintention.
And this bypasses thatinhibition control because now
they they have this inhibit,they have this uh inability to
(12:42):
restrict and control theirimpulse to interrupt you, but
now they're able to do that in away that's not disrespectful by
putting their hand on on theiron your arm.
So it's kind of an end-aroundway of getting around the fact
that their brain is literallynot mature enough to wait in a
practical sense and just tellingthem, okay, it'll be a minute,
usually doesn't work becausethat feels like an interminable
(13:04):
amount of time in the brain of afour-year-old.
So what I would do in this caseis I would just literally say,
okay, every time I'm talking,what you got to do is just come
up and put your hand on me.
And I promise you that as soonas I can and can get out of that
conversation, or as soon as Ican give you my attention, I
will give you my attention.
And it doesn't mean that you'regonna immediately drop
(13:26):
everything and do whatever it isthey're asking you to do.
It doesn't mean that they'regonna put their hand on you and
say, I want to leave and go homeright now, and you're gonna go,
okay, great, you've you've notinterrupted me, and so therefore
I'm just gonna give you whateveryou want.
It's just to say, look,attention is a natural desire
for kids, and it feelsthreatening to them when they
don't have their caregivers'attention.
(13:48):
And so that's that's one of theways that we can get around that
is to essentially give them atool to when our attention
shifts, to get our attentionback without being unnecessarily
disruptive.
And what the the key here,really, the the most basic level
in all of this is to understandthat when our kids are
(14:09):
interrupting us, it is becauseto our kids, our attention is a
need.
It's like an it's like food orwater.
And that's because theirsurvival depends on our
attention.
This is why attention andattachment are so deeply
connected.
This is why we talk aboutattunement.
I'm using a lot of A wordstoday.
We talk about attunement andattachment.
(14:30):
And attunement is just givingyour attention to such an extent
to your child where you're ableto pick up on their feelings and
reflect their feelings back tothem.
And so understanding that whenyour kid is asking for your
attention, they're actuallyasking for your attachment can
be really, really helpfulbecause it allows you to then
realize, okay, they're not beingannoying, they're not being
(14:53):
entitled.
And these are all the thingsthat we hear in our own head,
right?
This is the thing that yourhusband's saying.
He's she's you're letting herrun the show.
She's being entitled, she'sbeing a dictator.
All of that language comes froma misunderstanding.
And I'm I'm not blaming yourhusband, right?
Like I think these things too.
But all of that, in especiallyin the heat of the moment, and
that's the thing.
When when this happens, you gettriggered and then you don't
(15:15):
respond the way that you wantto.
Or I should say you react ratherthan respond.
And then it just kind of makeseverything worse.
So the the main way to reframethis for you and the for all of
us as we continue on with thesequestions, is to understand that
all of these attention-seekingbehaviors, like saying, Mom,
mom, mom, mom, mom, in themiddle of a conversation, are
(15:37):
just them saying, I want to makesure that you're still there.
And maybe there's more thingsgoing on here, like they have an
inability to like hold on to athought, but maybe I'll talk
about that in a minute.
So brass axe, replace thebehavior, give them a new neural
pathway.
And that new neural pathway,instead of screaming, mom, mom,
mom, mom, mom, is going to be tocome over, put the hand on you.
(16:00):
And this is gonna be kind of mytip for all of these, but it's
especially important with withinthe first one with a
four-year-old, where some of thestuff that's not gonna they're
they're not gonna be able to dosome of the other things, like
go and set their own timer orwhatever.
So hopefully that gives you somesome ability to regulate some of
(16:24):
that.
And I want to move on to my nextone, which was an emailed
question.
Thank you, uh, for an emailedquestion.
We're always excited to receiveemails podcast at
wholeparentacademy.com.
You can send in your questionsvia email, it's the easiest way
for me to sort them.
But this one comes from Jeremy,and Jeremy says, Okay, my
(16:48):
seven-year-old constantlyinterrupts me, but only when I'm
on the phone.
Like if I'm talking to him, he'sfine.
(18:32):
But the second I pick up a callfor work, he absolutely loses
his mind.
He suddenly needs me urgentlyfor no reason, it drives me
insane.
Honestly, it feels intentional.
Like he knows that's the onething that stresses me out.
Well, Jeremy, I hear a couple ofthings going on here, and uh I'm
(18:52):
gonna kind of try and take themin different places and
hopefully we'll come up with asolution.
But first and foremost, I havekids, my other kids.
I said that I have one kid whostruggles when I'm talking face
to face with somebody.
I have other kids who really,really struggle when I get on
the phone and all of a suddenthey start fighting with each
(19:15):
other.
And I definitely have toldmyself that kind of I've
reframed that for myself as welland said, oh my gosh, they're
only doing this because I'm onthe phone and they're trying to
get my attention.
But I want to kind of flip thaton its head and say that when
your kid is experiencing one ofthese, and this is where I'm
(19:37):
gonna use that fancy term again,state dependent executive
functioning lack, right?
When they're experiencing that,what's actually happening is
that that experience feelsthreatening to them.
So it's not that it feels likethey want you to not be able to
do it.
(19:57):
It's that they feel like all ofa sudden my dad isn't paying
attention to me.
And what if I need him?
And so I'm going to test theboundaries, or I'm gonna test
the waters and ask for a bunchof stuff, or I'm going to
suddenly not be able to tie myown shoes, or I'm not gonna be
(20:18):
able to find this thing that I'mlooking for, or all of a sudden
I'm gonna get hungry, or all ofa sudden I'm gonna need to go to
the bathroom and I'm gonna havea problem with that.
All of this stuff, and I gethe's seven, a lot of this stuff
he should be able to do on hisown.
But all of that stuff is himfeeling like I don't know if I'm
safe if my dad isn't payingattention to me, and he knows
(20:41):
that when you're on the phone,that is one place and time where
you're definitely not payingattention to him.
And so the first thing that Iwould do is I would just get
curious about that with him.
I would the next time you haveto take a phone call and this
happens, I would not react inthe moment, do whatever you do
(21:02):
to survive, and then and and youI don't want to say you should
ignore him, but you don't haveto immediately give in to
everything, right?
Unless you know, hey, this isjust gonna be easier for me,
then do whatever you need to doto survive.
But you don't have to give in tothat.
Like you can build somefrustration tolerance here.
It's something that we've talkedabout in previous episodes.
But what I would be looking foris an opportunity really to have
(21:26):
a conversation after the fact,let's say 20, 30, 45 minutes
later.
So after the phone call, youreturn to Stasis.
He goes back into his normal wayof being where he doesn't
constantly need you foreverything.
Now I wait for him to beactively engaged with something
like drawing or doing whateverhe's doing, not watching a
(21:47):
screen, not on his tablet orsomething like that.
Because I promise you, at thatpoint, then their brain is like
off.
What you're looking for is theirbrain to somewhat be in like a
receptive learning state.
And then sit down and go, okay,so when I was on the phone, you
all of a sudden just lost it.
What's up with that?
I I want to know.
(22:08):
And don't go into this with theassumption that you have all the
answers.
Because really, the best thingthat you can do here is to get
him to understand why he's doingit.
And at seven, you have a realability to do that.
And so I would really go intothat conversation in the most
basic way of just saying, hey,so this is what happened.
(22:31):
Tell me more about why you thinkthat happened.
Tell me more about what wasgoing on with you when that
happened.
Well, I was just worried thatthis, this.
And you might just say, I don'tknow.
And then you dig down, you canretell the story.
Go, okay, so I was on the phone,and then all of a sudden you
asked me to, you know, tie yourshoes for you or do this.
And you know how to do that.
(22:51):
So like I'm just wondering howcome that happened?
And again, we're not lookinglike a lot of us hear these
types of ways of talking to kidswith this curiosity.
And it can feel prettythreatening to those of us who
grew up in punitive environmentsbecause oftentimes those types
of questions were rhetorical andthey were just like waiting for
us to, you know, hey, it'swhat's wrong with you?
(23:13):
Explain yourself.
And then you say, Well, I wasjust, and then you go, no, you
weren't thinking at all, and nowyou're gonna get a punishment.
But really, what we're lookingfor here is that curiosity to
get him to trying to unpackwhat's going on.
And I think a real problem thatparents have, um, a real
misconception that we have, isthat we know our kids better
(23:35):
than they know themselves.
In fact, when I wrote thatsentence in the book, that kids
by the age of six have an innerworld that's robust enough that
they know themselves far betterthan we know them, I got
pushback.
Like I got pushback from myeditor who doesn't know any of
like really about any of thisstuff.
And so it's not like he had likehe was like a PhD neuroscientist
who was like, well, actually,let me tell you.
(23:56):
No, he was just like, I don'tthink I really are you sure?
I'm pretty sure I know my kidbetter than they know
themselves.
And I was like, no, no, no.
Once they have an inner world,like you don't know what's
driving their actions andbehaviors.
You sometimes we can come at itfrom an objective perspective
that understands who's wiser.
(24:18):
In the same way, by the way,that a therapist can help you to
understand or unpack why you'reparticipating in the same
destructive, you know, copingmechanisms that are maladaptive
because they're an outsider.
We can be that for our kids, butit doesn't mean that we know
more than about them than theyknow about themselves.
And I really would start withthat.
(24:38):
I would just go, okay, so it,and then I would make a plan.
I would go, okay, so the nexttime I'm on my phone, what can
we do?
What you know, what what do youthink would be a good plan for
well, that's gonna be the timewhen I can do this or that or
the other.
And here's some examples ofthings you can do.
Number one, you can set a timer.
This is good for you and goodfor your kid.
(25:00):
Obviously, if you don't knowwhen you're gonna be off the
call, you can't set a timer, butyou can set a timer.
That's a good, that's a goodone.
You can uh make a questionsparking lot.
This is a fun one where you canhave a like a post-it stack of
post-it notes.
And if you have aseven-year-old, he might be able
to kind of write some things outor draw some pictures or
something, depending on how uhgood he is with his uh verbal
(25:23):
skill or um written literaryskills.
But um you can make a questionsparking lot where he can just
like start handing you stickynotes, like, okay, here are all
the things that I need your helpwith, and they can kind of stack
up.
And then when you get off thephone, you go, okay, well, I'm
gonna start going through thesethings.
Okay, you needed me to put somepeanut butter on your bread for
you.
Okay, okay.
Oh, oh no, you already did thatone for yourself.
(25:44):
Okay, you just drew this pictureand you just said, well, you,
oh, you want me to cut the crustoff your sandwich.
Okay, now I understand.
And you go through it and it'skind of like a fun game, then,
right?
As your kid comes up with liketasks for you to do while you're
on the phone, it gives them,keeps them organized or um uh
distracted and organizing theirthoughts rather than constantly
just bombarding you with thosethose thoughts in real time.
(26:06):
Again, because even aseven-year-old does lack some of
that impulse control.
So when we're talking aboutimpulse control with
four-year-old, that's veryobvious to most of us.
Toddlers lack impulse control.
Yeah, and so the sky is blue,right?
Like everybody knows that.
But kids slowly develop impulsecontrol.
And kids who are ADHD orneurodivergent develop impulse
(26:28):
control even more slowly thankids who are neurotypical.
And so I don't expect aseven-year-old to have great
impulse control.
I I in fact, I expect them toonly have the the barest minimum
amount of impulse control.
But you can frame some of thesethings.
You can make a plan of like,here are the things that we're
gonna do when I'm on the phone.
And that may be a time when forhim, that is a time to utilize,
(26:53):
you know, a screen or somethinglike that, because for him, he
he that that's what he wants todo.
And that's an okay thing, right?
If you're on a work call.
Not if it's an everyday I'm onthe work calls for three and a
half hours, and so you have tocome up with some other thing to
do.
But at that point, I would say,okay, well, if you're on work
calls for three and a half hoursevery day, we also just have to
(27:14):
figure out a better way of ofmanaging work-life balance
because it's we can ask our kidsto wait only so much, right?
But having a visual timer andthings like that, that can help
with that again, that inabilityto understand the large, the,
the, the time, the, the timeblindness that kids have, where
(27:35):
they don't, you know, an hourfeels like a day and or a week
or a month.
Five minutes can feel like twohours.
Giving them a visual timer canreally help with that as well.
So those are some tips andtactics and strategies.
But actually, I think that thosewill be less effective than
anything that you come up withwith your son.
I think that the most effectivetool here is actually to just
(27:58):
sit down with your son, go backand forth, talk about this, talk
about what happened, talk aboutthe problem, replay the game
footage, right?
If he doesn't know what you'retalking about, when you say,
you're having a hard time when Iwas on the phone, you just walk
back through.
Yeah, so this happened and thishappened and this happened, and
now we're we're not judging,we're literally just describing.
So I was on the phone, and thenyou needed me to do this or tie
(28:20):
your shoes or whatever it was.
And what was that about?
Because I know that other timesyou don't usually need my help
with that.
So I just am looking for, youknow, oh, I just wanted you.
Okay.
Well, then what can we plan todo next time that you want me
when I'm on the phone as analternative?
And again, we can do like thehand-on-arm thing, but in my for
my money, I'm looking at thisand going, by seven, he can make
(28:44):
his own plan.
And also the hand-on-arm thingworks definitely less when
you're on the phone because uhthe whole hand-on arm thing is
because you don't want to beinterrupted in an in-person
conversation rather than uhbeing interrupted on the phone,
he can be putting post-it notesnext to you the whole time and
that doesn't bother you, orshould you know, maybe it does
(29:04):
bother you, but it wouldn'tbother me.
So you guys come up with a plantogether, and I think that
you'll be a lot better off.
But you have to name this stuff.
A lot of us think that like wecan just do this stuff without
ever going to that place withour kids and naming it.
You gotta name this stuff, andthat's a big piece of it.
And so I just encourage you todo that.
Anything that's mentionable ismanageable.
That's a Fred Rogersism.
(29:26):
Okay, I have one more question.
It comes from inside mymembership.
I asked them if I could share myresponse that I had given to
them as uh part of the podcastbecause I thought it was a great
question that related to this.
And so here is the question fromEli inside the membership.
Uh, Eli says, I just don't knowhow to handle interrupting
(29:47):
without being mean.
My five-year-old will waitsometimes, but other times she
just jumps in and I snap and Isay, stop interrupting, because
that's literally what my parentssaid to us.
I don't want to be that intense.
I also can't have her thinkingthat she can just talk over
people all the time.
I don't know what's the linebetween teaching patience and
(30:08):
shutting her down.
Sorry, I'm rambling.
I'm climbing, she's climbing onme right now, lol.
So uh yes, Eli, thank you againfor sharing this with uh the
podcast community.
But the thing that I told Eli,because I had some time to think
about it, was we talked a littlebit about that time processing
(30:29):
piece.
And specifically, temporalprocessing, and when I say
temporal, I'm not sayingtempora, the uh battering of
delicious deep frying ofvegetables and things that you
can get at uh Asian restaurants.
I'm saying temporal, meaningtime processing.
And temporal processing happensin the I wrote it down for
(30:52):
myself because I'm not that uhquick on my feet, in the dorsal
lateral prefrontal cortex.
And what happens in betweendorsal, what I mean by dorsal
lateral uh relies on the dorsallateral prefrontal cortex, is
that they have to be able tobasically their brain has to be
so, their prefrontal cortex,which is the last part of the
(31:14):
brain that develops, has to beso developed that it can jump
between different sides of theprefrontal cortex in order to,
in real time, in order tounderstand how to process time.
This is why kids struggle sodeeply to have the sense of how
long something takes or be ableto hold their you know patience
(31:37):
for a longer amount of time.
It's because literally, when itin real time, they have to be
able to do a very complicatedbrain process in order to
understand time.
And in in order to do that, thatthe just the ability to hold on
to a thought like is really,really challenging for a kid.
(31:58):
And it can be challenging for,again, I know that this is
challenging for kids becauseit's challenging for me as even
as an adult with ADHD.
Like it's one of my struggles isholding a thought when I'm in
the midst of other things.
Sometimes I wander on thepodcast and I forget what I'm
saying.
That's a great example of whereit struggles where I struggle
(32:18):
with this.
And when you're stressed, man,it gets so much harder because
then your prefrontal cortexstarts to go offline because
you're in your stress response.
And kids obviously are thrown intheir stress response more
quickly, and also they justdon't have a fully developed
prefrontal cortex to begin with,especially not at five years
old.
And so you can see where all ofthis stuff can just become very,
(32:39):
very challenging for a kid.
And so we are thinking aboutthis as just, oh, well, just
wait and don't interrupt me inthe middle of a conversation
with somebody, and I just wantto scream at them, stop
interrupting, because it seemsso simple.
But actually, it's much morecomplicated.
It requires tons of mentalgymnastics and emotional
regulation techniques and allother things.
(33:01):
And then we wind up lashing outand snapping at them and
screaming, you know, snapping,as Eli said, stop interrupting.
And what does that do?
It sends them deeper into theirdysregulation, which shuts down
their prefrontal cortex.
What little development theyhave in their prefrontal cortex
is shut off entirely, which justmakes them, you know, lose it.
And why do we just scream stopinterrupting?
(33:23):
Because we feel like we'reraising an entitled, you know,
uh narcissistic monster who justcan't, you know, think about
anybody but themselves.
And so you can see where likeall of these different layers,
there's a very simple problem inin on the surface.
Well, my kid talks over otherpeople, or my kid talks over me
(33:45):
at the dinner table.
Actually, it's a much deeperproblem that has to do with
brain development, it has to dowith our own childhood baggage,
that we were probably told this.
This is what Eli said, right?
I was I was told to stopinterrupting when I interrupted.
So now I feel like that's theappropriate response, or maybe I
(34:07):
don't even think it's theappropriate response, but I feel
that it's the appropriateresponse because my nervous
system has been trained thatwhen a child interrupts, this is
how you respond.
Because that was what was doneto me.
And so all of these thingsbecome this whirling, swirling
tornado.
And as they all interact witheach other, we take this very
(34:31):
innocuous problem that is agetypical of a five-year-old for
all of the reasons that we'vesaid.
They struggle to hold on totheir thoughts, they have no
sense of time of how longthey're they've waited or how
long they will have to wait,they struggle with impulse
control, they feel like whenanyone's not talking to them
that it's a lack of connectionand attachment to them.
(34:51):
All of these things happeningsimultaneously trick triggers
their amygdala.
So they jump into theconversation, which then
triggers us, and then we furthertrigger them, we send them
deeper into the dysregulation,and all of a sudden, we we have
a kid who's melting down at thedinner table.
And it feels like it's becausewe didn't let them dominate the
(35:13):
conversation.
But what it's really ishappening is that there was a
lot of other pieces, movingpieces going on.
And we just responded or reactedin that moment in a way that
came from our own baggage.
And so, how would I react if Icould react better?
And sometimes I don't reactbetter, just totally, like I
(35:34):
said, began the whole episode byjust telling I just told my kids
like go find something to do,right?
That's kind of stopinterrupting.
It's not that different.
Um, I think it was a little,maybe, maybe I was a little bit
better, but also I was, youknow, I was in Pastor John mode,
which means that I probably doparent a little bit more
effectively, no matter what,just because I know I'm being
(35:55):
watched by people.
Uh, most of them don't knowabout whole parent, or or if
they know about it, they don'treally follow it or any or
anything.
But, you know, uh either evenso, when you're in front of
people, oftentimes you you kindof temper your parenting
differently.
I might not be as kind if I hadbeen, you know, triggered like
that and it had just been me andmy wife around.
(36:16):
Hopefully, I would be.
I'm trying to do better.
But uh what I would say if I hadall of my faculties about me,
and if I had done somejournaling work about this,
which I've done, and I wasreally able to emotionally
regulate in that moment ratherthan r reacting, I responded.
The thing, the way that I wouldrespond would be to turn to my
(36:38):
child and say, I want to hearwhat you have to say.
But I need to finish listeningto your brother, your dad,
first.
You can put your hand on my armand let me know that you're here
and that you want to tell mesomething, and I really care
(36:59):
about what you have to say.
And I think that this is kind ofas we come to the end of the
episode, I'm trying to keepthese episodes a little bit
shorter and more digestible.
As we come to the episode end ofthe episode, I think this is
really where I want to land.
Because if the fundamental needthat is not being met in our
(37:19):
kids in these moments isattachment and is attention, one
of the ultimate hacks here is tojust say, I want to listen to
you.
I actually really care aboutwhat you're saying.
And I'll do this now.
If if I'm it's I don't do thismuch when I'm uh when my kids
interrupt me in conversations,but when my kids interrupt me,
(37:41):
uh I'm working on something, ifI'm you know, working on
something for a whole parent,I'm writing or whatever, and my
kids walk into the room andthey're like, hey, dad, dad,
dad, I want to show you thisthing, I want to show you this.
I will actually stop what I'mdoing, not to look at their
thing, but to turn to them, givethem my full attention for one
sentence to say, I really wantto see that.
(38:01):
I have to finish this, otherwiseI'll be distracted when I'm
talking to you.
I want to see that.
Can you leave it right there?
Or can you come back and find mein five minutes?
You can go set a timer,whatever.
But I start from the place of Ireally care about what you're
having to say, what you have tosay, and that's why I need to
(38:22):
finish what I'm doing over here.
I think that can be one of themost powerful things that you
can say to your kid, because itkind of does everything that
we've talked about up to thispoint.
It it gives them the permissionto check in with you and know
that you're attentive to theirneeds and their wants and their
(38:43):
desires, that you're notabandoning them, that you're not
just ignoring them, but at thesame time, it protects the space
to say you're gonna have towait.
And understand, my kids do notlike waiting, even after I say
that.
But it becomes a manageablething that's building their
frustration tolerance and theirpatience and their emotional
(39:04):
distress tolerance rather thanjust sending them into
dysregulation because I snap atthem.
And so I'm not saying, Eli, thatyou did that you that I have not
done exactly what you didbecause I started the whole
episode of the story about how Ido that sometimes, especially
when I'm in stressfulenvironments myself.
What I'm saying is on my bestdays as a parent, which I hope
(39:27):
are more than my not best days,I start with, I really care
about what you're doing.
But notice I didn't say that onmy best days as a parent, I drop
everything for my kids at alltimes.
Because one surefire way to makea kid entitled is to constantly
drop everything that you'redoing and make the world revolve
around them.
(39:48):
Because then they'll receive themessage that the world revolves
around them.
Not because they're a bad personor they're inherently
narcissistic or because there'ssome sort of problem with their
brain, but because you've saidthat to them through your
actions.
And so I think it's important tosay stop interrupting.
But we can do that in kinderways.
(40:09):
And we can give our kidsalternative behaviors and we can
understand developmentallywhat's going on so we don't take
those things personally.
And ultimately, the way to raisea non-entitled kid is that they
are going to have to waitsometimes, but that the waiting
does not have to be an attentionor an attachment rupture, that
(40:30):
the waiting does not have to bemaladaptive and hurtful and
painful for them.
And I think that that's where wecan end the episode.
Because in all of these things,I did I, you know, it's easy to
just say, well, just let theminterrupt you because eventually
they'll grow out of that.
And and some of the parenting isthat.
They just do grow out of some ofthese behaviors.
(40:51):
But I think the harder thing todo and the better thing to do is
to say, no, I'm gonna, I'm gonnastay in this.
I'm gonna talk to them about itafter it happens, if it keeps
happening in one particulartime, I'm gonna give them
alternative behaviors to do,whatever.
But most importantly, I'm gonnamake sure that they know that I
delight in their attention, thatI love giving them my full and
(41:14):
undivided attention.
And that in order to do that, Iactually have to finish what I'm
doing before I give you my fulland undivided attention.
And by the way, here's an eggtimer.
And kids love egg timers.
You should get your get an eggtimer.
I wish I had a sponsor that justgave me egg timers to give to
you.
Anyway, that's what I got foryou in this episode.
I hope you enjoyed it.
(41:34):
I hope it gave you something tothink about.
And uh yeah, I'll try and dothis again tomorrow night.
An episode a day, as much as Ican.
See you next time.
Thank you again for listening tothis episode of the Whole Parent
Podcast.
(41:55):
If you are listening to thisright now, yes, you in your car
driving somewhere on a walk withyour kids, perhaps your kids are
melting down and you'relistening to this on your
headphones with the noisecancellation turned on.
Whatever you're doing whileyou're listening, doing the
dishes at night after your kidsgo to bed, I don't know.
That would just be me if I waslistening.
Stop right now.
(42:16):
I have three quick favors to askyou.
I promise they're not going totake you very long.
The first one, very, very easy.
Go in to wherever you'relistening to this podcast and
rate it five stars.
That's one, two, three, four,five stars.
The more five star reviews thatour podcast gets as we
accumulate episodes, the morelikely it is to be pushed out to
more parents who are searchingfor parenting podcasts to solve
(42:38):
their problems.
Whatever you got out of thisepisode, whether it was
something that to try with yourkids, whether it was a new way
to think about parenting, maybethis episode was not
specifically about a problemthat you're having, but you're
somebody in your life who'shaving this problem.
Go in and rate it five stars.
And if you have an additional 30seconds, that first one only
takes you 10 seconds.
If you have an additional 30seconds, just type a few words
(43:00):
for me to read.
I'd love to read, I'd love toread the reviews.
If there's something specificthat's helped you, write it out.
It helps me to know what weshould keep doing here on the
podcast, week in and week out.
The second question that I havefor you or request that I have
for you, favor, let's call it,is to share this episode with
somebody in your life who youthink could use it.
(43:20):
It might be a parent, anotherparent in your kid's class.
It might be a sibling who hasyoung kids, maybe it's your
kid's teacher or a faith leaderin your life, whomever it is
that you think should have thisepisode of the podcast or any
episode of the podcast, send itdirectly to them.
I know it's vulnerable to sharepodcasts with people who you
might not have that close of arelationship with, or even more
(43:42):
vulnerable if you do have aclose relationship with them.
But I promise you, so many ofthe people who listen to this
podcast listened not becausethey followed me on social
media, but because they got apersonal recommendation from
somebody in their life who said,Hey, this guy has a way of
talking about parenting thatjust works for me.
You don't know if they listen toit or not, they might never
reply, but maybe, just maybe,they'll love the episode so much
(44:03):
that they become your newparenting partner out there in
the world, doing things the sameway that you are, and you might
have just made your newparenting bestie.
The last thing that you can dois definitely the biggest ask
from me, but it is to go over toSubstack.
That link is down below in thebio, and to subscribe so that
these episodes can keep comingto you.
(44:24):
Paid subscriptions on Substackis the only way currently that I
am being funded here on theWhole Parent Podcast.
That is the only money that Ireceive.
It is$5 a month.
I think that this podcast isworth the price of a coffee for
you.
If it's not worth the price of acoffee for you, obviously don't
do it.
But if you're extra cheap likeme, you can just subscribe
annually.
I know that you're gonna listenfor the rest of the year.
(44:45):
If you know that you're gonnalisten for the rest of the year,
just give me 50 bucks up front,and then you don't have to think
about it coming out of yourcredit card every single month.
Those are the ways that you cansupport me.
And as always, I think thatyou're a great parent already.
But I do hope this episode gaveyou something to make you a
little bit better.
Take care.
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