December 16, 2025 • 47 mins
In this episode, Jon unpacks why toddlers seem to say “no” to everything—even the things they want—and why this phase isn’t defiance or manipulation, but their earliest tool for agency. Framed as a selfhood struggle, not a power struggle, the conversation reframes constant refusal as a sign of healthy development. Parents will leave with clarity, reassurance, and simple ways to reduce battles while protecting connection and supporting their child’s growing sense of self.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jon @WholeParent (01:47):
If your toddler seems to say no to
everything, like even the thingsthat they ask for, even the
things that they obviously want,you are absolutely not alone.
It's one of the most confusingand frustrating parts of early
childhood.
You're left wondering, what'shappening here?
Is this defiance?
(02:08):
Is this normal?
Is this just me?
In today's episode, we're goingto talk about what's actually
going inside on inside yourtoddler's brain when no becomes
their default setting.
And I'm going to tell you rightnow, it's not misbehavior, it's
not manipulation, it's not acharacter flaw.
It's a window into autonomy,emotional overload, and immature
(02:31):
executive functioning.
And it's the earliest beginningsof them discovering who they
really are of selfhood.
We're going to break down whytoddlers go through this
challenging phase and what itreveals about their growing
identity and stress response,and why children tend to want
control when everything elsefeels too big.
(02:54):
And as always, I'm going to giveyou simple actionable tools that
you can use today to reducethose battles, protect the
connection, and help your childfeel a little bit more regulated
and capable in those moments.
If you're ready for that, let'sget into it.
So I have a kid who is very muchso in this saying no to
(03:18):
everything phase right now.
He is my three-year-old.
And man, every single time thatwe try and do anything, anytime
that we try and do stuff that heliterally wants us to do, as I
said in the intro, like he willjust snap and be like, no.
And he's definitely also in theI do it phase.
So anything we try and do forhim, we're just doing it wrong
somehow.
(03:38):
He needs to be the one to do it.
And what happens when wheneverwe run into a situation with him
is that it just like literally,if if we try and help in any
way, if we try and offer him,even letting him do stuff, it
just feels like it's always no,no, no, no, no, no, no for
(03:59):
everything.
So if that makes you feel anybetter, I don't even have a
specific example.
I'm trying to think of one asI'm starting this podcast
episode.
I don't always have them becauseit just feels like, man, this is
constant for us.
Uh oh, I'll give you one.
So so he wanted to make rice.
(04:20):
And that might seem like apretty extreme job, but it's we
we have these little uhmicrowaveable rice things.
They it's like just put them inthe microwave for 90 seconds,
they come out really good.
Um, this is my plug.
I'm not sponsored by whatevercompany makes these, but I get
them from Costco and these uhboxes, and they think they have
like 12 in the box.
And he has gotten really latchedonto this, and I think it's
(04:42):
because he can do it, and so hewants to make his own rice, but
that requires us to peel backthe corner a little bit.
For for anybody who's mademicrowave meals, you have to
peel to vent.
This is like a big part of it.
And in these littlemicrowaveable rice things, it's
like really hard to peel themback.
Like my nine-year-old can't evendo it, and so I usually do it
(05:04):
for him before he even realizesthat I do it.
But today he had gone and foundwhere the rice was, or actually,
this was yesterday.
Uh, he went and found where therice was and he brought it over
and he's gonna put it in themicrowave.
But of course, it has to bevented, and so I'm explaining
this to him.
And it's just like it, it's likeI told him he couldn't have it,
(05:25):
or or it's like I told him thathe wasn't ever gonna eat it
again, or I'm gonna take it awayforever.
Just saying a very simple, like,okay, let me let me vent that
for you.
Let me help you do that.
And he's just like, no, and helike throws his body on the
ground and he's like, I don'twant to say he's like kicking
and screaming, but he'sbasically just like, I can't
(05:45):
believe you did that.
And then he runs away from me.
Like, I don't even make thething because I don't know when
he's coming back.
He runs away from me, runsupstairs, goes and gets my wife,
tells her how terrible andhorrible I am that I was going
to, you know, help him make hismicrowave rice.
And I promise you, as soon as hewe finished it, he would have
told me that I needed to blow itoff or I needed to add butter
(06:07):
and salt to it, or all thesethings, but it was not on his
terms, and he didn't understandthe venting.
And so uh he vented, he lost it,he just absolutely snapped.
And it's just one example,right?
Like just this tiny littletoddler who's just having the
worst day ever because of this.
It's just kind of a randomthing, but it does happen.
(06:29):
I don't know why.
Well, I do know why we're gonnatalk about that today, but uh I
I I didn't know in the momentwhat was going on until I took a
step back and went, okay, hangon.
This is totally developmentallynormal.
And so yeah, I'm just gonna jumpright in.
The first one uh is uh comesfrom Catelyn.
(06:51):
The first question comes fromCatelyn, and it was an Instagram
message, and she says, John, Ineed help because my two and a
half year old has started sayingno to literally everything.
I swear she doesn't even knowwhat she's saying no to anymore.
This morning she asked me for ayogurt, and then when I gave her
the yogurt, she startedscreaming, no, not that.
(07:13):
Like it is that it's the exactsame cup, same flavor, and then
five minutes later she ate itanywhere.
What do I do about this?
Well, Catelyn, I think that thefirst thing to say when we're
doing an episode on kids whoscream no to everything is to
(07:34):
unpack why this is such a normaland typical thing for kids to do
developmentally.
And the short answer to that isthat no is one of the earliest
tools that toddl have to enactautonomy.
And we've talked about this alittle bit in previous episodes,
but I'll just say it again.
(07:54):
When kids are three years old,two years old, three years old,
four years old, they have spentthe majority of their lives with
absolutely no semblance ofagency and autonomy.
They don't choose what theywear.
They are just shuttled from onething to the next.
They have very, very little sayin any of that.
Any say that they do have isalways, you know, granted by
(08:18):
their parents.
And there's a keen awareness ofthis, like, you know, one more
story.
Well, they don't really get tochoose whether or not that
happens.
They might be asking for it, butthey understand that we're
ultimately in charge.
And kids need to feel like theirparents are in charge because
that makes them feel safe andsecure in a world that feels
unstable and in a world thatfeels kind of out of their
(08:41):
control.
That here's an adult who knowswhat they're doing and I'm I'm
safe with them.
But they also need a feeling ofagency and autonomy because
they're developing what's calledtheory of mind.
And so theory of mind isliterally the developmental
stage when a child begins torealize that other people have
(09:02):
different thoughts and adifferent inner world, a
different mental state,different desires and likes and
dislikes than they have.
And it's kind of interestingbecause as adults, we often
don't think about the fact thatmost of us go through the world
understanding intrinsically,impair, you know, without having
to think about it, that otherpeople are not thinking the same
(09:23):
things that we're thinking.
But until the age of two, kidsbasically all think that
everybody else is thinking allthe same things that they're
thinking all the time, thateverybody else has the same
favorite ice cream flavor, thateverybody else has the same uh
internal world.
They don't, they kind of sharebelieve that they're sharing a
collective consciousness, notjust with their parents, but
with everybody.
(09:43):
And so when they start torealize that they are an
individual person, and by theway, they have some ability to
move around and do things ontheir own, and this we can kind
of go down this path for amoment, but this is also an
evolutionary biology thing.
Human beings are born prematurein uh not just in the sense that
(10:07):
if you're born before 40 weeks,you're a premature baby.
But uh humans are born prematurerelative to development compared
to other mammals who are similarto us.
Uh, what that means is basicallywe are born gestationally
younger.
And the reason for this isbecause we have huge brains
(10:27):
compared to the rest of ourbody.
And in order to have a hugebrain, you have to have a huge
skull, a huge noggin.
And we've adapted to this inseveral different ways.
Obviously, the skull separatesand then it's it's multiple
bones that then fuse together asthe the child grows and it forms
around.
And so there are different waysthat we've adapted to that.
(10:48):
But one of those ways that wehave adapted is by actually just
being born too young.
And this is because our mothershave proportionally sized birth
canals and they don't know, theythey their bodies cannot birth a
baby that has the head of athree or a four-year-old, which
is when you know another speciesmight have their baby, they
(11:09):
would be gestationally the sizeof a three or four-year-old.
For we have our babies whenthey're much smaller and they're
much more helpless.
And so for the first 18 monthsof a child's life, certainly the
first year of a child's life,and I'm just coming out of this
because I have a four almost14-month-old now, for the first
year of their life, they have noability to do anything for
themselves.
(11:30):
And they're aware of this.
And so they're developing asense of consciousness and a
self of a sense of self, eventhough it's not really developed
yet, because again, of theory ofmind, they're developing some
sense of self, but they have noability to act that out in any
practical way.
They can't even, you know, go tothe bathroom by themselves.
They can't walk around bythemselves.
(11:51):
Really, the only thing that theyhave control over is what they
put in their mouth as far asfood.
And you'll notice this is whymany babies use mealtimes as a
time to act out that autonomy.
They don't want to eat the thingthat they wanted to eat.
A great example from Catelynhere, right?
It's a two and a half year oldwho's saying, I don't want to
eat this thing that I actuallywant to eat.
(12:12):
Why?
Because I just want to know thatI can say no to it.
And I'm getting ahead of myselfa little bit, but basically,
children have no ability to haveany say over their life because
of their biological reality.
And then at two and a half, theyall of a sudden can move around,
they can run around, they can dosome things on their own.
And most importantly, they learnto say no.
(12:33):
They know that their no haspower, and then they want to use
it.
And the reason that they want touse it is because they have
never been able to make anychoice for themselves before.
And the one choice that theyfeel that they have is no.
It's their earliest tool foragency.
And it usually comes across intwo major places.
(12:55):
One, what they put in theirmouth.
So in the case of Liam, it washis rice and how to make the
rice.
In the case of Catelyn's kid, itis the yogurt, which I get.
They really like it, but alsothey want to know that they can
say no to it.
And number two, in pottytraining, they know what goes in
and what comes out of theirbody, and they know that they
(13:18):
can have some semblance ofcontrol over you can't make them
do those things.
And by the way, this is why thetwo most anxiety-producing
things for parents are one,picky eating, and two, potty
training, often for parents,because they're the two things
we cannot control.
We have to give over control toour child in these places, and
actually that's good.
It's good because they need somesemblance of control.
(13:41):
So, what do you do about this aswe kind of continue on and we
move on to the next question andgo deeper into this?
Number one, you can narrate whatyou're seeing.
So you can say, Hey, I see thatyou don't want the yogurt
anymore, but you asked for theyogurt before.
You're saying no, but I alsoknow that earlier you did want
(14:04):
it.
It's okay to feel both of thosethings, right?
I'm gonna put it right here.
You can eat it when you'reready.
And so you're giving them thatautonomy and that control, but
you're also narrating to themwhat happened, right?
And it's okay to have thatboundary of saying, well, I'm
not gonna make you the nextthing or the next thing or the
next thing because you've askedfor this thing and I've made it,
and here it is.
Now understand, if you get intothat power struggle with a two
(14:27):
and a half year old, um, you mayfind yourself in a power
struggle that's basicallyunwinnable because they might
just double down and say, no, Idon't want this, I don't want
this, I don't want this, andthey're going to enact that
autonomy at the expense of thembeing hungry, which just makes
them more dysregulated and godown that path.
But I think one of the clearestthings you can do is just
narrate their kind ofwishy-washy ambivalence about
(14:49):
this thing.
Hey, it sounds like you did wantthis and now you don't want
this.
That's okay.
You can choose to not have itnow.
That's your choice.
You don't have to eat it.
And when you're saying thesethings, essentially what you're
giving them is permission tothen eat it and say, it was my
choice.
And it can be really, it itmoves and it bypasses the str
(15:13):
the amygdala struggle thatthey're having, where they're
when they say no, they'reexpecting us to push back and
they're expecting us to say, youmust do this.
And then they double down andno, I refuse to do this.
And they're expecting thatmeltdown.
But when you just offer to thema narrated experience, it
actually bypasses that.
And it's it can be firm andboundaried, but it doesn't have
(15:35):
to be about control then.
And they can feel that sense oflike, oh man, I actually get
some say in this.
Now, here's the thing: developmentally, research shows (15:44):
undefined
us that this type of defiance isnormal, it's not pathological,
and it's correlated with latercompliance and decision-making
and self-advocacy.
So if you feel like it's reallyannoying, Catelyn, and the other
questions that we're gettingtoday, or the just anybody who's
listening, if you feel like it'sreally annoying and it's like,
(16:05):
John, but what I was looking foryou to say was just shut up and
eat this thing.
I get that.
Um, but this is not a sign ofthis is not the there's this old
myth that if you let your kidrun the show, then they're going
to become this tyrant who cannever be controlled.
If you give them an inch,they'll take a mile.
(16:25):
This is not manipulation.
This is them exploring theirautonomy, and it's normal and
it's developmental.
And you want them to have asense of self and autonomy.
So as we get on and answer morequestions, I want you to keep
that in the back of your mind.
Like ultimately, you want achild who becomes an adult who
one day can say, Oh, yeah, I didorder this meal, and now you
(18:56):
know what?
I I don't want it anymore.
I'm you're you can't don't makeme eat this thing.
You know, they go out to arestaurant, they order something
that they don't like.
You don't want them to just, youknow, eat it because they're a
people pleaser and they'reafraid of offending anybody.
Um, it's okay to say, Yeah, youknow what?
Um, I don't actually want thisanymore.
Thank you.
And I know that that's that eventhat, even that scenario for
(19:17):
many of us who grew up in totalcompliance households feels
like, oh my gosh, I would never.
Are you kidding me?
Like that sounds so, soabrasive.
But that's actually like I theone of the things that I love
about Gen Alpha, which is thisnext generation that's coming up
right now, they have so manyadditional challenges that that
previous generations just didnot have to deal with.
(19:39):
They have to deal with theinternet and cell phones, and I
do not envy them.
It's never been harder to be ateenager in in like the mental
health, relational health way.
There have been times when it'sbeen really tough to be a
teenager in human history, butuh in at least in the last
hundred years, this is a this isa challenge for them.
And I and I'm I don't I do notuh wish to trade places with
(20:00):
them.
I I think that I had a prettygood run of it growing up when I
grew up.
But one of the things I loveabout Gen Alpha is that they do
have this like kind of inbuiltaudacity.
And that's why I like theaudacious generation, right?
If the Gen Z is the anxiousgeneration, Gen Alpha is the
audacious generation, they havethis inbuilt audacity to kind of
(20:20):
say, like, no, I'm gonna kind ofspeak my truth and live on it.
And here comes my cat again tointerrupt our podcast.
Anyway, I'm gonna take a quickbreak before the next one and uh
do the do the whole mid-rollthing, the little plug thing
where I interrupt myself, andthen I will uh be back to answer
the next question with Mandy.
(20:42):
All right, so Mandy says, and Ibelieve this was an email.
I didn't write in the note formyself today what where these
came from.
Mandy says, My three-year-old isgoing through a huge no phase,
and I've noticed that he says nobefore he even hears what I'm
gonna say.
So I'll start asking him, heyBud, can you?
And he already is shaking hishead as if he is shutting it
(21:03):
down.
Is this normal?
I feel like how, or did Isomehow make feeling like
listening to me feel like achore?
I catch myself doing a thingwhere I stop where I start to
say, stop saying no to me allday.
It's rude.
But then I immediately feelgross because I don't want to
shame him, and I also need him,but I also need him to take and
(21:26):
put on his freaking socksbecause we're late again.
Thank you, Mandy.
Uh I I don't know exactly whatyou are do like what your idea
of what you think you should dois because I know that you've
you know you're already sayingyou're not gonna you shouldn't
(21:46):
scream at him, stop saying no atme, it's to me it's rude.
Um I think uh some people wouldsay just ignore him, do it do
your thing.
Some people would say no, youshould correct him, you know,
it's not fair for him to saythis.
You should you force him anyway.
Um I don't think any of thosethings is particularly adaptive
(22:07):
as a parent.
And by the way, I if I sound alittle off today, it's because
I'm sick, I'm sniffing andsnuffling, and I have a cup of
decaf coffee here.
I should I never said welcomeback to the porch.
I'm supposed to be saying thatat the beginning.
I I I decided that's kind of oneof my phrases that I say,
welcome back to the porch.
I'm on the porch today and Ihave all of the heaters on
because I'm freezing cold as I'mout here.
(22:29):
Um I I want to kind of go backto what I just said and I want
to offer you a differentsolution, but I want to offer
you the same kind ofundergirding that I just said to
Catelyn, which is the positionthat your son finds himself in
(22:51):
is feeling like it if he'ssaying no automatically, he's
feeling like there is there issome places where he he he just
needs that autonomy and he needsto feel safe to say no, or he at
least needs to feel safe to likecome up with some to be a like
(23:13):
to be a collaborator in his owndiscipline structure.
And it doesn't have to do withlike I think a lot of parents
will get into this mindset ofthinking that this is like a
hierarchy and a defiance isabout like them trying to take
back, take over control of us.
I kind of mentioned that inpassing earlier.
I think that we really need tostop looking at it that way, and
(23:35):
we need to start looking at itas this is a selfhood struggle,
not a power struggle.
So, like this is a he wants tohave choices and he wants to
have opinions and he wants tohave autonomy.
And whenever you open yourmouth, for whatever reason, he
thinks that.
(23:56):
Whatever's going to come out ofit is going to be somehow uh
violating his autonomy or notgiving him choices or whatever.
So, what I would say is okay,first of all, congratulations on
having a strong-willed child.
And it's not a bad thing.
So your kid someday becomes theCEO, becomes the thought leader,
(24:20):
becomes maybe the politician,although I wouldn't wish that on
anyone, um, becomes theinfluencer, becomes whatever,
right?
It becomes the leader.
And leaders are the ones whoknow to put put their opinion
forward and and and stand, notnot be unwavering in their
(24:41):
perspectives.
I change my mind all the time,and I think of myself as, you
know, kind of a strong-willedperson.
It's not about not changing yourmind, it's about having the
confidence to assert yourselfwhen necessary.
And what I'm hearing is thatyour kid at three years old
already has that.
And so, congratulations on that.
And I mean that, not, you know,in some sort of tongue-in-cheek
(25:04):
or uh, you know, ironic orsarcastic, that's the word I'm
looking for, way.
I'm saying, oh, congratulations,your kid's gonna be a real, you
know, difficult kid to parent.
No, congratulations that likeyour kid's not gonna be pushed
around by a toxic boss someday.
Congratulations that your kid'snot gonna find himself in toxic
relationships.
Congratulations that your kid uhis going to say ethical, is
(25:26):
going to stand by his ethicalprinciples, even when people,
you know, may push back on that.
That's what I'm hearing in a kidwho says no before you even like
come up with a thing.
And those kids are morechallenging to parent when
they're toddlers, but theybecome teenagers who are less
likely to be peer pressured, andthey become college kids who
(25:46):
know what they want and and youknow, assert themselves in
positive ways, adaptive ways,not maladaptive ways.
And so I would lead with a kidlike this.
I would go, okay, basically,every interaction, he's probably
wanting to have some semblanceof control.
So what can I do?
One, you could do likepre-choice priming, basically.
(26:11):
So instead of saying, hey,buddy, can you do this?
You can do it this way or thisway.
He's already in his mind as youstarted speaking, going, okay,
no, I'm not gonna listen to her.
Instead of going down that road,you say, Hey, buddy, or or even
before that, you can start with,I've got two choices for you.
(26:33):
Okay, you get to choose.
Hey, buddy, it's your choice.
And so now you're starting fromthe perspective of you have
agency on autonomy.
I'm granting you agency onautonomy.
All right, buddy, do you want toput on your left shoe first or
your right shoe first?
All right, buddy, do you want towear your boots today or your
shoes today?
All right, buddy, do you want towear your red socks or your blue
(26:54):
socks?
Okay, you've got two choices.
Do you want to do this or that?
And that kind of pre-choicepriming can disrupt that feeling
that he has that it's going tobe a fight, and it can instead
assert for him, hey, I'm gettingautonomy out of this interaction
automatically by because I'mbeing given a choice.
(27:14):
And so with the strong-willedkid, I'm leading with that.
And this, by the way, is alsotrue for ADHD kids.
ADHD kids do much better whenyou give them two choices or
three choices, or or you getthem somehow involved
collaboratively in their intheir approach.
So I would lead with that.
And then once you, once you'reon there, then you can listen.
(27:35):
And he may still say no and justsay, no, neither, right?
And that that's a typical thingthat kids will learn to do.
They'll adapt to that.
But at least for the foreseeablenext couple of times that you do
this, you're going to be priminghim that that you want his
input.
And then I would, I would lookfor every opportunity to get
that input in other areas andaspects of your life.
(27:57):
Like whatever that looks like, Iwould be looking for his input
whenever possible.
Do you want to sit here or here?
Do you want to do this or that?
And just constantly be givinghim all of these choices, not
just in the things that hedoesn't want to do, which is
where parents make this mistake.
They only use the quote quoteunquote false choice or the, you
know, the choice to avoid thepower struggle or the tantrum
(28:19):
when it's over something thatthe kid doesn't want to do.
I think you just start to justlayer and fill his life with
choices.
And then instead of feeling likeevery single time you open your
mouth, the only choice he has isto say, no, be quiet.
I don't want to hear this or Idon't want to do it.
Now he's he's his life is filledwith choices.
(28:39):
And a child whose life is filledwith choices can feel a much
greater sense of autonomywithout going to having to say
no every single time.
So what we understand is thatfrom the psychological research,
that autonomy supportive parentsversus like the you know
authoritarian controllingparents, um when a child's
(29:02):
autonomy is supported by theirparents through things like
choices, collaborative problemsolving, respect for feelings,
all that stuff, they're actuallymore likely to cooperate in the
long term.
And while cooperating,internalize the values that are
that are being offered to themat the at the time, right?
So if being on time is a valuefor you and you're late all the
(29:23):
time, by offering choices, youcan then not be met with that
shutdown.
And then you can teach the valueof like timeliness as as you're
doing that.
Another thing that that thathappens when we're autonomy
supportive is that kids learnhow to regulate their own
emotions much more effectively.
They become self-regulatorsbecause now we're not getting
into power unnecessary powerstruggles and then trying to be
(29:46):
controlling, and then they needus to pull them out of it
because we've kind of createdthe monster.
We can actually do this in apositive way.
And then later on, right, youhave less rebellion, less
aggression, and less, and thisis the important one for you.
This is why I said we started bysaying, congratulations, you
have a strong willed kid.
You also don't have like peoplepleasing and passivity either.
(30:09):
So a lot of times parents thinklike, oh, that kid's gonna get
cause you trouble later on.
Not if you work with them earlywhen they're toddlers and you
make them feel like they havesay and agency and and control
over their life.
They don't quote, you know, giveyou a hard time when you're
older.
They they may have their owndesires and and they may not
(30:29):
follow the same faith structurethat you do or or want go to the
college that you pictured themgoing to when they were born.
Uh they may have their ownchoices because you've given
them autonomy for their wholelife.
Of course, you yourself will bemuch better at giving them
autonomy because you will haveyears, decades almost of giving
them autonomy.
(30:50):
So you'll have practice ofletting them make their own
choices.
And this is also it's your firsttime parenting, too, right?
I mean, I guess I don't knowthat for sure.
Um, but for all of us, it's ourfirst time being parents.
Apologize.
I have to grab my cap becauseshe's just like meowing all over
me.
I don't know why she does this.
(31:10):
Whenever I she, you know, shedoesn't bother me all day, but
then as soon as I get on thepodcast, she's just like, oh,
he's talking into hismicrophone.
Now is the time to just go andbug him and just try and get as
many pets out of him aspossible.
It's probably a conditionedbehavior at this point for her.
But yeah, the more you can dothis, the better off his outcome
is going to be, right?
(31:32):
And we are learning at the sametime as our kid, as our kid is
learning how to make those goodchoices.
We are learning how to live withthe fact that they make choices
that we wouldn't necessarilychoose.
And so we're all growing at thesame time.
And what we see later is thatkids who know that they're going
to be granted some semblance ofautonomy and agency don't do the
(31:53):
rebellion thing, right?
Rebellion is comes from kids whofeel like the only way to uh
have any control over their lifeis to rebel against their
parents because their parentsare never going to give them
control.
This is not true of kids who,you know, are given control.
They don't need to rebel.
What are they rebelling against?
(32:13):
So I think that this is a greatopportunity.
And when you think about like II kind of hear you saying, like,
should I just shut this down?
And in in in your question, andyou're saying, like, you just
say, stop saying no to me, it'srude, or stop saying no to me,
I'm your mother, right?
Is another way of saying that.
I really encourage you not toshut it down.
(32:35):
I guess that's what that'sreally what this whole answer is
about.
I really encourage you not toshut it down because this is a
gift in disguise.
Um and you want you want thatkid, you want the kid who's
strong-willed now because you'regonna grow with him, and as you
do that, like it's gonna becomea beautiful thing together.
(32:56):
Okay.
Last question on the porch.
My voice is like giving out aswe speak.
Last question is from Cora.
It says, John, please tell me ifthis is a me problem or a
toddler problem.
Love that beginning, Cora.
My four-year-old says no toeverything.
I suggest um that I suggest, butwill immediately do it if my
(33:18):
husband says it.
Like if I say Noah, it's time toget in the car, he screams,
throws himself on the floor.
If my husband walks in eightseconds later and says the exact
same words, my kid is magicallycooperative.
I feel stupid even typing thisbecause it makes me feel
rejected and mad.
Is he trying to is it possiblethat he just hates transitions,
(33:42):
or is this some sort ofmanipulation?
I kind of feel like I'm beingmanipulated, which um is just
like ug.
I don't know.
Okay.
A couple things that I want tosay here.
The first thing is kids actdifferently with different
(34:03):
caregivers, and it's not becauseone caregiver is better or worse
than the other.
A lot of people spin thisnarrative that the reason that
kids are worse with one parentis because the other, you know,
the other parent that they're isnot letting them walk all over
them.
That your husband is, you know,he's he's not gonna let them
(34:25):
walk all over him, and they hearthat and they're not gonna do
that.
More often it is an adaptiveresponse from the child to
understand that.
I mean, first and foremost, hemay just feel safer with you
than with your husband.
And I don't mean that to likeknock your husband, but he feels
like you're the person who he'sallowed to be dysregulated with
(34:45):
because maybe he's just beendysregulated with you more, and
he's felt feeling the feeling bevalidated with you.
Uh, this is kind of goes back tothat whole if you have a kid who
you go to parent teacherconferences and they're like, oh
man, this kid's an angel, I lovethem.
And then you're like, I don'tknow who you're talking about
because that's not my kid athome, they tear up the place.
(35:07):
Uh, that's actually a good signthat that tells me that they
feel more free and safe to bewith you than, and then when
they're at school, they theyhave some measure of restraint,
and then they get home, they gethome and they have restraint
collapse, right?
Um, there may be an aspect ofthat in parenting relationships
(35:27):
too, where one parent it feelslike I can't really be
dysregulated around this parentbecause I don't know what's
gonna happen.
It may not be that your husbanddid anything wrong, but it just,
you know, hey, I've I've really,I've really, you know, in the
attachment hierarchy, mom is atthe top.
And because of that, she's theone who I'm gonna give a hard
time to because I know that it'snot gonna change how she feels
(35:48):
about me.
And again, I don't want to saythat like a four-year-old is
thinking in those terms in somesort of conscious way, but it's
a subconscious experience offeeling like, you know, I know
that I can be safe with thisperson.
Um, the second thing that I'llsay is that for some kids,
(36:08):
transitions are really hard, butnovelty can really outstrip that
transition.
So for my son, Liam, novelty islike a huge thing.
And if if I just tell him, like,you know, he doesn't a great
example of this.
He doesn't ever want to go tobed when it's me.
If I tell him it's time to go tobed, he won't go to bed.
(36:30):
But if I say, mom wants to playwith you upstairs before bed,
kids just like runs, he's like,it's bedtime, this is great, and
he runs upstairs.
And the reason my wife does bedalmost every single night for my
almost four-year-old Liam isbecause it's like way easier
because he wants to do it whenit's going to be playtime with
mom, that is part of the bedtimeroutine, versus for some reason,
(36:52):
playtime with dad does not seemthat fun.
And it's which is crazy becauselike I think of myself as a
particularly fun dad.
And uh, I do feel rejectedsometimes when that's the case,
but I also just know that likehe understands our parenting
relationships differently, andhe is willing to run upstairs
for mom, and he's not willing torun upstairs for me.
For me, it's like, no, no, no,five more minutes, five more
minutes, and it's constantly,and there's probably gonna be a
(37:13):
meltdown because whatever.
Now, I would probably just playlike an emotional regulation
game on the nights when I haveto do that and we'll figure it
out, we'll figure it out uh aswe go, but but that's not to say
like I say all of this to sayjust because a child reacts
differently to the demands ofdifferent parents or reacts
(37:34):
differently to a transitioninvolving different parents does
not mean that either parent iswrong or right.
Neither my wife or I is a betterparent or a more loving parent
or a more secure parent or moreattached parent.
But for whatever reason, somekids they they just feel like I
can do this one thing for mom,but I can't do it for dad.
(37:55):
And maybe every time he gets inthe car with dad, it's a
positive association, right?
Because it's a novel experience.
He doesn't do it that much andor or not as much.
It's not like an everyday thing.
And so, you know, I remember thelast three times that I was in
the car with dad, one of thosetimes I got ice cream.
And so when dad says get in thecar, I just run and get in the
car.
And it's not a consciousthought, but it's a subconscious
(38:15):
experience of like, this is justnew and novel for me, and it's
fun.
I I used to use this trick allthe time when I was when we got
a new car.
I would say, Oh, do you want totake the new car?
Should we go to the grocerystore in the new car?
And the kids would be like,Let's go to the grocery store,
which of course they don'tactually want to, but they want
to get in the new car.
And so there's there's an aspectof like the transition is hard,
(38:36):
but it can feel less hard whenthere's subconscious factors
going on here.
And one of those subconsciousfactors may just be that there
is something going on with yourhusband.
So it it may it may be that yourhusband is like really, really
fun, and that's why they arerushed to get in the car with
him.
It may be that your husband isnot really a safe person for
them, at least in the moment,they don't think of him as being
(38:58):
like a particularly safe personto be dysregulated around, and
so they don't act dysregulatedaround him.
Like it could be a lot ofdifferent things.
But I think that the actual wayof fixing this problem is to one
try lowering the intensity,right?
Go with a slower pace, name thetransition before you announce
(39:20):
it.
Hey, we're gonna do this in fiveminutes, we're gonna go get in
the car, et cetera, et cetera.
And then what I would do isfocus on giving as much autonomy
around the home as possible.
And this kind of goes with whatwe just said with the giving
choices, but I would just looklike like I've kind of been
waiting to say this, and I don'tknow exactly the right moment to
(39:42):
say it, but I think you the theyou can manage the transition in
a lot of different ways byslowing it down, by being just
more calm around the transition.
One piece of it is also justthat kids, and and I was waiting
to say it because I think atfour, this is where I think it's
the most important.
There is one aspect of this,which is just kids who say no
(40:05):
the most when they hear no themost.
Kids who hear yes more say yesmore.
And it's not just a modelingthing.
It is a, it's like a they havean autonomy tank that must be
filled.
And I don't know if this is theexperience with your
four-year-old, Cora, but I cantell you from experience with
(40:27):
all of my kids when they've beenfour, and now I have one that's
about to be four.
They have a certain amount ofautonomy that they need to enact
throughout the day, and it'sprobably literally like an
educational developmental thing.
Uh, in the same way that kidsneed a certain amount of tummy
time when they're six monthsold, or they certain need a
certain number of readingminutes when they're seven years
(40:48):
old and eight years old to likelearn how to read effectively,
and they just need repetitionsof that.
One of the needs that your childhas it for is autonomy, and they
will get that autonomy need metby any means necessary.
And so kids who hear know themost become kids who say know
the most, and kids who hear yesthe most are kids who say no the
least.
They say yes the most becausethey know.
(41:09):
And and this is a phrase thatyou can use, all of you,
everybody on the call can use,everybody on the call, everybody
on the podcast can use.
I did a workshop yesterday, andso I'm still thinking everybody
on the call, um everybody on theworkshop can use.
Everybody on the podcast canuse.
You can say this phrase, it'sone that I learned and I had to
(41:30):
learn to say.
It's if I could say yes, Iwould.
And then I lit learned to liveinto that motto.
But if my kid I I realized if mykids believed that if I could
say yes, I would, they would beway more hit willing to hear me
say no.
If they thought that I just saidno about everything arbitrarily
(41:51):
all the time for no reason, thenthey didn't want to hear it when
I said no.
Because dad always says no.
But if they felt like I alwaysgenuinely tried to say yes when
I could, but right now we haveto put on our shoes and get in
the car.
That was way more tolerable.
And so there could be a lot ofthings going on here.
(42:12):
I I don't want you to feel likea bad parent, Cora.
It really centrally, what Iwould say is another big aspect
to this, and I just I have towrap because because we're out
of time on the episode, butanother big access at uh piece
of this is if you start to feellike your child doesn't like
you, then you start to put offthat energy.
You don't like me, and and andyou don't listen to me, and you
(42:33):
don't respect me.
And I don't want you to thinkthat.
As I just listed, there's amillion reasons why this is
happening, and none of them isthat your child doesn't respect
you.
Uh it I guarantee you that yourchild respects you and loves
you.
It's that like unconditionally,kids respect and love their
parents.
It's really hard to make kidsnot love and respect their
parents.
(42:55):
But developmentally, they stillneed to push those boundaries
and they still need to pushback.
And and for everybody, as I kindof conclude this episode because
I've because this is the end, umeveryone who's hearing this
today, I want you to listen towhat I'm about to say very
carefully, which is that asyou're going through this
(43:18):
experience of parenting, yourchild you may come into a
conflict with your child wherethe right thing for you is to
hold a boundary, and the rightthing for your child is to push
that boundary.
And that may cause inherentconflict where they scream no in
(43:38):
your face.
But it's the right thing forthem to do developmentally.
And the right thing for you todo developmentally, or from a
parenting perspective, from adiscipline perspective, is to
say, I don't I don't like howyou spoke to me right there.
And that does not mean anyonefailed, it meant that everybody
was getting what they needed outof it.
That interaction.
(43:58):
And so if your kid is screamingno at you, try and give them
more yes.
Try and give them more choices.
Try and understand what's goingon.
They're not manipulating you.
They're not they don't likesomebody else more than you.
Being autonomy supportiveactually leads to long-term
physical, mental, emotional,relational health.
(44:20):
And if you have that kid who'sscreaming no, don't take that
out of them.
Because that is going to be oneof their greatest traits.
Okay.
That's what I got for you.
I'll see you next time.
Thank you for your timelistening to the whole parent
(44:42):
podcast today.
I hope you got something out ofit.
I have a couple quick favors toask of you as we end the
episode.
The first one is to jump over onwhatever podcast platform that
you are listening to right nowand rate this show five stars.
You'll notice there are a lot offive-star ratings on this show,
whether that's on Spotify orApple Music or Apple Podcasts.
(45:03):
We have a ton of five-starratings and it helps our podcast
get out to more people thanalmost any other parenting
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And so it's a really quick thingthat you can do if you have 15
or 20 seconds.
And if you have an additional 30seconds, I'd love to read a
review from you.
I read all the reviews that comethrough.
If some if you particularly likeone part of the podcast or you
(45:24):
like when I talk about somethingor whatever, imagine that you're
writing that review directly tome.
The second thing that you can dois go and send this episode to
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Think about all the parents inyour life.
Think about your friends, yourfamily members who could use a
little bit of help parenting.
It's vulnerable to share anepisode of a parenting podcast
(45:47):
with them.
I get it.
But imagine how much better yourlife is as a result of listening
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You can share that with someoneelse too.
And so I encourage you, just goover, shoot them a quick text,
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(46:08):
The last thing you can do is godown to the link show notes at
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(46:29):
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(46:52):
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(47:14):
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Thank you so much for listeningto this episode, and I'll see
you next time.
If your toddler seems to say no to
everything, like even the thingsthat they ask for, even the
things that they obviously want,you are absolutely not alone.
It's one of the most confusingand frustrating parts of early
childhood.
You're left wondering, what'shappening here?
Is this defiance?
(02:08):
Is this normal?
Is this just me?
In today's episode, we're goingto talk about what's actually
going inside on inside yourtoddler's brain when no becomes
their default setting.
And I'm going to tell you rightnow, it's not misbehavior, it's
not manipulation, it's not acharacter flaw.
It's a window into autonomy,emotional overload, and immature
(02:31):
executive functioning.
And it's the earliest beginningsof them discovering who they
really are of selfhood.
We're going to break down whytoddlers go through this
challenging phase and what itreveals about their growing
identity and stress response,and why children tend to want
control when everything elsefeels too big.
(02:54):
And as always, I'm going to giveyou simple actionable tools that
you can use today to reducethose battles, protect the
connection, and help your childfeel a little bit more regulated
and capable in those moments.
If you're ready for that, let'sget into it.
So I have a kid who is very muchso in this saying no to
(03:18):
everything phase right now.
He is my three-year-old.
And man, every single time thatwe try and do anything, anytime
that we try and do stuff that heliterally wants us to do, as I
said in the intro, like he willjust snap and be like, no.
And he's definitely also in theI do it phase.
So anything we try and do forhim, we're just doing it wrong
somehow.
(03:38):
He needs to be the one to do it.
And what happens when wheneverwe run into a situation with him
is that it just like literally,if if we try and help in any
way, if we try and offer him,even letting him do stuff, it
just feels like it's always no,no, no, no, no, no, no for
(03:59):
everything.
So if that makes you feel anybetter, I don't even have a
specific example.
I'm trying to think of one asI'm starting this podcast
episode.
I don't always have them becauseit just feels like, man, this is
constant for us.
Uh oh, I'll give you one.
So so he wanted to make rice.
(04:20):
And that might seem like apretty extreme job, but it's we
we have these little uhmicrowaveable rice things.
They it's like just put them inthe microwave for 90 seconds,
they come out really good.
Um, this is my plug.
I'm not sponsored by whatevercompany makes these, but I get
them from Costco and these uhboxes, and they think they have
like 12 in the box.
And he has gotten really latchedonto this, and I think it's
(04:42):
because he can do it, and so hewants to make his own rice, but
that requires us to peel backthe corner a little bit.
For for anybody who's mademicrowave meals, you have to
peel to vent.
This is like a big part of it.
And in these littlemicrowaveable rice things, it's
like really hard to peel themback.
Like my nine-year-old can't evendo it, and so I usually do it
(05:04):
for him before he even realizesthat I do it.
But today he had gone and foundwhere the rice was, or actually,
this was yesterday.
Uh, he went and found where therice was and he brought it over
and he's gonna put it in themicrowave.
But of course, it has to bevented, and so I'm explaining
this to him.
And it's just like it, it's likeI told him he couldn't have it,
(05:25):
or or it's like I told him thathe wasn't ever gonna eat it
again, or I'm gonna take it awayforever.
Just saying a very simple, like,okay, let me let me vent that
for you.
Let me help you do that.
And he's just like, no, and helike throws his body on the
ground and he's like, I don'twant to say he's like kicking
and screaming, but he'sbasically just like, I can't
(05:45):
believe you did that.
And then he runs away from me.
Like, I don't even make thething because I don't know when
he's coming back.
He runs away from me, runsupstairs, goes and gets my wife,
tells her how terrible andhorrible I am that I was going
to, you know, help him make hismicrowave rice.
And I promise you, as soon as hewe finished it, he would have
told me that I needed to blow itoff or I needed to add butter
(06:07):
and salt to it, or all thesethings, but it was not on his
terms, and he didn't understandthe venting.
And so uh he vented, he lost it,he just absolutely snapped.
And it's just one example,right?
Like just this tiny littletoddler who's just having the
worst day ever because of this.
It's just kind of a randomthing, but it does happen.
(06:29):
I don't know why.
Well, I do know why we're gonnatalk about that today, but uh I
I I didn't know in the momentwhat was going on until I took a
step back and went, okay, hangon.
This is totally developmentallynormal.
And so yeah, I'm just gonna jumpright in.
The first one uh is uh comesfrom Catelyn.
(06:51):
The first question comes fromCatelyn, and it was an Instagram
message, and she says, John, Ineed help because my two and a
half year old has started sayingno to literally everything.
I swear she doesn't even knowwhat she's saying no to anymore.
This morning she asked me for ayogurt, and then when I gave her
the yogurt, she startedscreaming, no, not that.
(07:13):
Like it is that it's the exactsame cup, same flavor, and then
five minutes later she ate itanywhere.
What do I do about this?
Well, Catelyn, I think that thefirst thing to say when we're
doing an episode on kids whoscream no to everything is to
(07:34):
unpack why this is such a normaland typical thing for kids to do
developmentally.
And the short answer to that isthat no is one of the earliest
tools that toddl have to enactautonomy.
And we've talked about this alittle bit in previous episodes,
but I'll just say it again.
(07:54):
When kids are three years old,two years old, three years old,
four years old, they have spentthe majority of their lives with
absolutely no semblance ofagency and autonomy.
They don't choose what theywear.
They are just shuttled from onething to the next.
They have very, very little sayin any of that.
Any say that they do have isalways, you know, granted by
(08:18):
their parents.
And there's a keen awareness ofthis, like, you know, one more
story.
Well, they don't really get tochoose whether or not that
happens.
They might be asking for it, butthey understand that we're
ultimately in charge.
And kids need to feel like theirparents are in charge because
that makes them feel safe andsecure in a world that feels
unstable and in a world thatfeels kind of out of their
(08:41):
control.
That here's an adult who knowswhat they're doing and I'm I'm
safe with them.
But they also need a feeling ofagency and autonomy because
they're developing what's calledtheory of mind.
And so theory of mind isliterally the developmental
stage when a child begins torealize that other people have
(09:02):
different thoughts and adifferent inner world, a
different mental state,different desires and likes and
dislikes than they have.
And it's kind of interestingbecause as adults, we often
don't think about the fact thatmost of us go through the world
understanding intrinsically,impair, you know, without having
to think about it, that otherpeople are not thinking the same
(09:23):
things that we're thinking.
But until the age of two, kidsbasically all think that
everybody else is thinking allthe same things that they're
thinking all the time, thateverybody else has the same
favorite ice cream flavor, thateverybody else has the same uh
internal world.
They don't, they kind of sharebelieve that they're sharing a
collective consciousness, notjust with their parents, but
with everybody.
(09:43):
And so when they start torealize that they are an
individual person, and by theway, they have some ability to
move around and do things ontheir own, and this we can kind
of go down this path for amoment, but this is also an
evolutionary biology thing.
Human beings are born prematurein uh not just in the sense that
(10:07):
if you're born before 40 weeks,you're a premature baby.
But uh humans are born prematurerelative to development compared
to other mammals who are similarto us.
Uh, what that means is basicallywe are born gestationally
younger.
And the reason for this isbecause we have huge brains
(10:27):
compared to the rest of ourbody.
And in order to have a hugebrain, you have to have a huge
skull, a huge noggin.
And we've adapted to this inseveral different ways.
Obviously, the skull separatesand then it's it's multiple
bones that then fuse together asthe the child grows and it forms
around.
And so there are different waysthat we've adapted to that.
(10:48):
But one of those ways that wehave adapted is by actually just
being born too young.
And this is because our mothershave proportionally sized birth
canals and they don't know, theythey their bodies cannot birth a
baby that has the head of athree or a four-year-old, which
is when you know another speciesmight have their baby, they
(11:09):
would be gestationally the sizeof a three or four-year-old.
For we have our babies whenthey're much smaller and they're
much more helpless.
And so for the first 18 monthsof a child's life, certainly the
first year of a child's life,and I'm just coming out of this
because I have a four almost14-month-old now, for the first
year of their life, they have noability to do anything for
themselves.
(11:30):
And they're aware of this.
And so they're developing asense of consciousness and a
self of a sense of self, eventhough it's not really developed
yet, because again, of theory ofmind, they're developing some
sense of self, but they have noability to act that out in any
practical way.
They can't even, you know, go tothe bathroom by themselves.
They can't walk around bythemselves.
(11:51):
Really, the only thing that theyhave control over is what they
put in their mouth as far asfood.
And you'll notice this is whymany babies use mealtimes as a
time to act out that autonomy.
They don't want to eat the thingthat they wanted to eat.
A great example from Catelynhere, right?
It's a two and a half year oldwho's saying, I don't want to
eat this thing that I actuallywant to eat.
(12:12):
Why?
Because I just want to know thatI can say no to it.
And I'm getting ahead of myselfa little bit, but basically,
children have no ability to haveany say over their life because
of their biological reality.
And then at two and a half, theyall of a sudden can move around,
they can run around, they can dosome things on their own.
And most importantly, they learnto say no.
(12:33):
They know that their no haspower, and then they want to use
it.
And the reason that they want touse it is because they have
never been able to make anychoice for themselves before.
And the one choice that theyfeel that they have is no.
It's their earliest tool foragency.
And it usually comes across intwo major places.
(12:55):
One, what they put in theirmouth.
So in the case of Liam, it washis rice and how to make the
rice.
In the case of Catelyn's kid, itis the yogurt, which I get.
They really like it, but alsothey want to know that they can
say no to it.
And number two, in pottytraining, they know what goes in
and what comes out of theirbody, and they know that they
(13:18):
can have some semblance ofcontrol over you can't make them
do those things.
And by the way, this is why thetwo most anxiety-producing
things for parents are one,picky eating, and two, potty
training, often for parents,because they're the two things
we cannot control.
We have to give over control toour child in these places, and
actually that's good.
It's good because they need somesemblance of control.
(13:41):
So, what do you do about this aswe kind of continue on and we
move on to the next question andgo deeper into this?
Number one, you can narrate whatyou're seeing.
So you can say, Hey, I see thatyou don't want the yogurt
anymore, but you asked for theyogurt before.
You're saying no, but I alsoknow that earlier you did want
(14:04):
it.
It's okay to feel both of thosethings, right?
I'm gonna put it right here.
You can eat it when you'reready.
And so you're giving them thatautonomy and that control, but
you're also narrating to themwhat happened, right?
And it's okay to have thatboundary of saying, well, I'm
not gonna make you the nextthing or the next thing or the
next thing because you've askedfor this thing and I've made it,
and here it is.
Now understand, if you get intothat power struggle with a two
(14:27):
and a half year old, um, you mayfind yourself in a power
struggle that's basicallyunwinnable because they might
just double down and say, no, Idon't want this, I don't want
this, I don't want this, andthey're going to enact that
autonomy at the expense of thembeing hungry, which just makes
them more dysregulated and godown that path.
But I think one of the clearestthings you can do is just
narrate their kind ofwishy-washy ambivalence about
(14:49):
this thing.
Hey, it sounds like you did wantthis and now you don't want
this.
That's okay.
You can choose to not have itnow.
That's your choice.
You don't have to eat it.
And when you're saying thesethings, essentially what you're
giving them is permission tothen eat it and say, it was my
choice.
And it can be really, it itmoves and it bypasses the str
(15:13):
the amygdala struggle thatthey're having, where they're
when they say no, they'reexpecting us to push back and
they're expecting us to say, youmust do this.
And then they double down andno, I refuse to do this.
And they're expecting thatmeltdown.
But when you just offer to thema narrated experience, it
actually bypasses that.
And it's it can be firm andboundaried, but it doesn't have
(15:35):
to be about control then.
And they can feel that sense oflike, oh man, I actually get
some say in this.
Now, here's the thing: developmentally, research shows (15:44):
undefined
us that this type of defiance isnormal, it's not pathological,
and it's correlated with latercompliance and decision-making
and self-advocacy.
So if you feel like it's reallyannoying, Catelyn, and the other
questions that we're gettingtoday, or the just anybody who's
listening, if you feel like it'sreally annoying and it's like,
(16:05):
John, but what I was looking foryou to say was just shut up and
eat this thing.
I get that.
Um, but this is not a sign ofthis is not the there's this old
myth that if you let your kidrun the show, then they're going
to become this tyrant who cannever be controlled.
If you give them an inch,they'll take a mile.
(16:25):
This is not manipulation.
This is them exploring theirautonomy, and it's normal and
it's developmental.
And you want them to have asense of self and autonomy.
So as we get on and answer morequestions, I want you to keep
that in the back of your mind.
Like ultimately, you want achild who becomes an adult who
one day can say, Oh, yeah, I didorder this meal, and now you
(18:56):
know what?
I I don't want it anymore.
I'm you're you can't don't makeme eat this thing.
You know, they go out to arestaurant, they order something
that they don't like.
You don't want them to just, youknow, eat it because they're a
people pleaser and they'reafraid of offending anybody.
Um, it's okay to say, Yeah, youknow what?
Um, I don't actually want thisanymore.
Thank you.
And I know that that's that eventhat, even that scenario for
(19:17):
many of us who grew up in totalcompliance households feels
like, oh my gosh, I would never.
Are you kidding me?
Like that sounds so, soabrasive.
But that's actually like I theone of the things that I love
about Gen Alpha, which is thisnext generation that's coming up
right now, they have so manyadditional challenges that that
previous generations just didnot have to deal with.
(19:39):
They have to deal with theinternet and cell phones, and I
do not envy them.
It's never been harder to be ateenager in in like the mental
health, relational health way.
There have been times when it'sbeen really tough to be a
teenager in human history, butuh in at least in the last
hundred years, this is a this isa challenge for them.
And I and I'm I don't I do notuh wish to trade places with
(20:00):
them.
I I think that I had a prettygood run of it growing up when I
grew up.
But one of the things I loveabout Gen Alpha is that they do
have this like kind of inbuiltaudacity.
And that's why I like theaudacious generation, right?
If the Gen Z is the anxiousgeneration, Gen Alpha is the
audacious generation, they havethis inbuilt audacity to kind of
(20:20):
say, like, no, I'm gonna kind ofspeak my truth and live on it.
And here comes my cat again tointerrupt our podcast.
Anyway, I'm gonna take a quickbreak before the next one and uh
do the do the whole mid-rollthing, the little plug thing
where I interrupt myself, andthen I will uh be back to answer
the next question with Mandy.
(20:42):
All right, so Mandy says, and Ibelieve this was an email.
I didn't write in the note formyself today what where these
came from.
Mandy says, My three-year-old isgoing through a huge no phase,
and I've noticed that he says nobefore he even hears what I'm
gonna say.
So I'll start asking him, heyBud, can you?
And he already is shaking hishead as if he is shutting it
(21:03):
down.
Is this normal?
I feel like how, or did Isomehow make feeling like
listening to me feel like achore?
I catch myself doing a thingwhere I stop where I start to
say, stop saying no to me allday.
It's rude.
But then I immediately feelgross because I don't want to
shame him, and I also need him,but I also need him to take and
(21:26):
put on his freaking socksbecause we're late again.
Thank you, Mandy.
Uh I I don't know exactly whatyou are do like what your idea
of what you think you should dois because I know that you've
you know you're already sayingyou're not gonna you shouldn't
(21:46):
scream at him, stop saying no atme, it's to me it's rude.
Um I think uh some people wouldsay just ignore him, do it do
your thing.
Some people would say no, youshould correct him, you know,
it's not fair for him to saythis.
You should you force him anyway.
Um I don't think any of thosethings is particularly adaptive
(22:07):
as a parent.
And by the way, I if I sound alittle off today, it's because
I'm sick, I'm sniffing andsnuffling, and I have a cup of
decaf coffee here.
I should I never said welcomeback to the porch.
I'm supposed to be saying thatat the beginning.
I I I decided that's kind of oneof my phrases that I say,
welcome back to the porch.
I'm on the porch today and Ihave all of the heaters on
because I'm freezing cold as I'mout here.
(22:29):
Um I I want to kind of go backto what I just said and I want
to offer you a differentsolution, but I want to offer
you the same kind ofundergirding that I just said to
Catelyn, which is the positionthat your son finds himself in
(22:51):
is feeling like it if he'ssaying no automatically, he's
feeling like there is there issome places where he he he just
needs that autonomy and he needsto feel safe to say no, or he at
least needs to feel safe to likecome up with some to be a like
(23:13):
to be a collaborator in his owndiscipline structure.
And it doesn't have to do withlike I think a lot of parents
will get into this mindset ofthinking that this is like a
hierarchy and a defiance isabout like them trying to take
back, take over control of us.
I kind of mentioned that inpassing earlier.
I think that we really need tostop looking at it that way, and
(23:35):
we need to start looking at itas this is a selfhood struggle,
not a power struggle.
So, like this is a he wants tohave choices and he wants to
have opinions and he wants tohave autonomy.
And whenever you open yourmouth, for whatever reason, he
thinks that.
(23:56):
Whatever's going to come out ofit is going to be somehow uh
violating his autonomy or notgiving him choices or whatever.
So, what I would say is okay,first of all, congratulations on
having a strong-willed child.
And it's not a bad thing.
So your kid someday becomes theCEO, becomes the thought leader,
(24:20):
becomes maybe the politician,although I wouldn't wish that on
anyone, um, becomes theinfluencer, becomes whatever,
right?
It becomes the leader.
And leaders are the ones whoknow to put put their opinion
forward and and and stand, notnot be unwavering in their
(24:41):
perspectives.
I change my mind all the time,and I think of myself as, you
know, kind of a strong-willedperson.
It's not about not changing yourmind, it's about having the
confidence to assert yourselfwhen necessary.
And what I'm hearing is thatyour kid at three years old
already has that.
And so, congratulations on that.
And I mean that, not, you know,in some sort of tongue-in-cheek
(25:04):
or uh, you know, ironic orsarcastic, that's the word I'm
looking for, way.
I'm saying, oh, congratulations,your kid's gonna be a real, you
know, difficult kid to parent.
No, congratulations that likeyour kid's not gonna be pushed
around by a toxic boss someday.
Congratulations that your kid'snot gonna find himself in toxic
relationships.
Congratulations that your kid uhis going to say ethical, is
(25:26):
going to stand by his ethicalprinciples, even when people,
you know, may push back on that.
That's what I'm hearing in a kidwho says no before you even like
come up with a thing.
And those kids are morechallenging to parent when
they're toddlers, but theybecome teenagers who are less
likely to be peer pressured, andthey become college kids who
(25:46):
know what they want and and youknow, assert themselves in
positive ways, adaptive ways,not maladaptive ways.
And so I would lead with a kidlike this.
I would go, okay, basically,every interaction, he's probably
wanting to have some semblanceof control.
So what can I do?
One, you could do likepre-choice priming, basically.
(26:11):
So instead of saying, hey,buddy, can you do this?
You can do it this way or thisway.
He's already in his mind as youstarted speaking, going, okay,
no, I'm not gonna listen to her.
Instead of going down that road,you say, Hey, buddy, or or even
before that, you can start with,I've got two choices for you.
(26:33):
Okay, you get to choose.
Hey, buddy, it's your choice.
And so now you're starting fromthe perspective of you have
agency on autonomy.
I'm granting you agency onautonomy.
All right, buddy, do you want toput on your left shoe first or
your right shoe first?
All right, buddy, do you want towear your boots today or your
shoes today?
All right, buddy, do you want towear your red socks or your blue
(26:54):
socks?
Okay, you've got two choices.
Do you want to do this or that?
And that kind of pre-choicepriming can disrupt that feeling
that he has that it's going tobe a fight, and it can instead
assert for him, hey, I'm gettingautonomy out of this interaction
automatically by because I'mbeing given a choice.
(27:14):
And so with the strong-willedkid, I'm leading with that.
And this, by the way, is alsotrue for ADHD kids.
ADHD kids do much better whenyou give them two choices or
three choices, or or you getthem somehow involved
collaboratively in their intheir approach.
So I would lead with that.
And then once you, once you'reon there, then you can listen.
(27:35):
And he may still say no and justsay, no, neither, right?
And that that's a typical thingthat kids will learn to do.
They'll adapt to that.
But at least for the foreseeablenext couple of times that you do
this, you're going to be priminghim that that you want his
input.
And then I would, I would lookfor every opportunity to get
that input in other areas andaspects of your life.
(27:57):
Like whatever that looks like, Iwould be looking for his input
whenever possible.
Do you want to sit here or here?
Do you want to do this or that?
And just constantly be givinghim all of these choices, not
just in the things that hedoesn't want to do, which is
where parents make this mistake.
They only use the quote quoteunquote false choice or the, you
know, the choice to avoid thepower struggle or the tantrum
(28:19):
when it's over something thatthe kid doesn't want to do.
I think you just start to justlayer and fill his life with
choices.
And then instead of feeling likeevery single time you open your
mouth, the only choice he has isto say, no, be quiet.
I don't want to hear this or Idon't want to do it.
Now he's he's his life is filledwith choices.
(28:39):
And a child whose life is filledwith choices can feel a much
greater sense of autonomywithout going to having to say
no every single time.
So what we understand is thatfrom the psychological research,
that autonomy supportive parentsversus like the you know
authoritarian controllingparents, um when a child's
(29:02):
autonomy is supported by theirparents through things like
choices, collaborative problemsolving, respect for feelings,
all that stuff, they're actuallymore likely to cooperate in the
long term.
And while cooperating,internalize the values that are
that are being offered to themat the at the time, right?
So if being on time is a valuefor you and you're late all the
(29:23):
time, by offering choices, youcan then not be met with that
shutdown.
And then you can teach the valueof like timeliness as as you're
doing that.
Another thing that that thathappens when we're autonomy
supportive is that kids learnhow to regulate their own
emotions much more effectively.
They become self-regulatorsbecause now we're not getting
into power unnecessary powerstruggles and then trying to be
(29:46):
controlling, and then they needus to pull them out of it
because we've kind of createdthe monster.
We can actually do this in apositive way.
And then later on, right, youhave less rebellion, less
aggression, and less, and thisis the important one for you.
This is why I said we started bysaying, congratulations, you
have a strong willed kid.
You also don't have like peoplepleasing and passivity either.
(30:09):
So a lot of times parents thinklike, oh, that kid's gonna get
cause you trouble later on.
Not if you work with them earlywhen they're toddlers and you
make them feel like they havesay and agency and and control
over their life.
They don't quote, you know, giveyou a hard time when you're
older.
They they may have their owndesires and and they may not
(30:29):
follow the same faith structurethat you do or or want go to the
college that you pictured themgoing to when they were born.
Uh they may have their ownchoices because you've given
them autonomy for their wholelife.
Of course, you yourself will bemuch better at giving them
autonomy because you will haveyears, decades almost of giving
them autonomy.
(30:50):
So you'll have practice ofletting them make their own
choices.
And this is also it's your firsttime parenting, too, right?
I mean, I guess I don't knowthat for sure.
Um, but for all of us, it's ourfirst time being parents.
Apologize.
I have to grab my cap becauseshe's just like meowing all over
me.
I don't know why she does this.
(31:10):
Whenever I she, you know, shedoesn't bother me all day, but
then as soon as I get on thepodcast, she's just like, oh,
he's talking into hismicrophone.
Now is the time to just go andbug him and just try and get as
many pets out of him aspossible.
It's probably a conditionedbehavior at this point for her.
But yeah, the more you can dothis, the better off his outcome
is going to be, right?
(31:32):
And we are learning at the sametime as our kid, as our kid is
learning how to make those goodchoices.
We are learning how to live withthe fact that they make choices
that we wouldn't necessarilychoose.
And so we're all growing at thesame time.
And what we see later is thatkids who know that they're going
to be granted some semblance ofautonomy and agency don't do the
(31:53):
rebellion thing, right?
Rebellion is comes from kids whofeel like the only way to uh
have any control over their lifeis to rebel against their
parents because their parentsare never going to give them
control.
This is not true of kids who,you know, are given control.
They don't need to rebel.
What are they rebelling against?
(32:13):
So I think that this is a greatopportunity.
And when you think about like II kind of hear you saying, like,
should I just shut this down?
And in in in your question, andyou're saying, like, you just
say, stop saying no to me, it'srude, or stop saying no to me,
I'm your mother, right?
Is another way of saying that.
I really encourage you not toshut it down.
(32:35):
I guess that's what that'sreally what this whole answer is
about.
I really encourage you not toshut it down because this is a
gift in disguise.
Um and you want you want thatkid, you want the kid who's
strong-willed now because you'regonna grow with him, and as you
do that, like it's gonna becomea beautiful thing together.
(32:56):
Okay.
Last question on the porch.
My voice is like giving out aswe speak.
Last question is from Cora.
It says, John, please tell me ifthis is a me problem or a
toddler problem.
Love that beginning, Cora.
My four-year-old says no toeverything.
I suggest um that I suggest, butwill immediately do it if my
(33:18):
husband says it.
Like if I say Noah, it's time toget in the car, he screams,
throws himself on the floor.
If my husband walks in eightseconds later and says the exact
same words, my kid is magicallycooperative.
I feel stupid even typing thisbecause it makes me feel
rejected and mad.
Is he trying to is it possiblethat he just hates transitions,
(33:42):
or is this some sort ofmanipulation?
I kind of feel like I'm beingmanipulated, which um is just
like ug.
I don't know.
Okay.
A couple things that I want tosay here.
The first thing is kids actdifferently with different
(34:03):
caregivers, and it's not becauseone caregiver is better or worse
than the other.
A lot of people spin thisnarrative that the reason that
kids are worse with one parentis because the other, you know,
the other parent that they're isnot letting them walk all over
them.
That your husband is, you know,he's he's not gonna let them
(34:25):
walk all over him, and they hearthat and they're not gonna do
that.
More often it is an adaptiveresponse from the child to
understand that.
I mean, first and foremost, hemay just feel safer with you
than with your husband.
And I don't mean that to likeknock your husband, but he feels
like you're the person who he'sallowed to be dysregulated with
(34:45):
because maybe he's just beendysregulated with you more, and
he's felt feeling the feeling bevalidated with you.
Uh, this is kind of goes back tothat whole if you have a kid who
you go to parent teacherconferences and they're like, oh
man, this kid's an angel, I lovethem.
And then you're like, I don'tknow who you're talking about
because that's not my kid athome, they tear up the place.
(35:07):
Uh, that's actually a good signthat that tells me that they
feel more free and safe to bewith you than, and then when
they're at school, they theyhave some measure of restraint,
and then they get home, they gethome and they have restraint
collapse, right?
Um, there may be an aspect ofthat in parenting relationships
(35:27):
too, where one parent it feelslike I can't really be
dysregulated around this parentbecause I don't know what's
gonna happen.
It may not be that your husbanddid anything wrong, but it just,
you know, hey, I've I've really,I've really, you know, in the
attachment hierarchy, mom is atthe top.
And because of that, she's theone who I'm gonna give a hard
time to because I know that it'snot gonna change how she feels
(35:48):
about me.
And again, I don't want to saythat like a four-year-old is
thinking in those terms in somesort of conscious way, but it's
a subconscious experience offeeling like, you know, I know
that I can be safe with thisperson.
Um, the second thing that I'llsay is that for some kids,
(36:08):
transitions are really hard, butnovelty can really outstrip that
transition.
So for my son, Liam, novelty islike a huge thing.
And if if I just tell him, like,you know, he doesn't a great
example of this.
He doesn't ever want to go tobed when it's me.
If I tell him it's time to go tobed, he won't go to bed.
(36:30):
But if I say, mom wants to playwith you upstairs before bed,
kids just like runs, he's like,it's bedtime, this is great, and
he runs upstairs.
And the reason my wife does bedalmost every single night for my
almost four-year-old Liam isbecause it's like way easier
because he wants to do it whenit's going to be playtime with
mom, that is part of the bedtimeroutine, versus for some reason,
(36:52):
playtime with dad does not seemthat fun.
And it's which is crazy becauselike I think of myself as a
particularly fun dad.
And uh, I do feel rejectedsometimes when that's the case,
but I also just know that likehe understands our parenting
relationships differently, andhe is willing to run upstairs
for mom, and he's not willing torun upstairs for me.
For me, it's like, no, no, no,five more minutes, five more
minutes, and it's constantly,and there's probably gonna be a
(37:13):
meltdown because whatever.
Now, I would probably just playlike an emotional regulation
game on the nights when I haveto do that and we'll figure it
out, we'll figure it out uh aswe go, but but that's not to say
like I say all of this to sayjust because a child reacts
differently to the demands ofdifferent parents or reacts
(37:34):
differently to a transitioninvolving different parents does
not mean that either parent iswrong or right.
Neither my wife or I is a betterparent or a more loving parent
or a more secure parent or moreattached parent.
But for whatever reason, somekids they they just feel like I
can do this one thing for mom,but I can't do it for dad.
(37:55):
And maybe every time he gets inthe car with dad, it's a
positive association, right?
Because it's a novel experience.
He doesn't do it that much andor or not as much.
It's not like an everyday thing.
And so, you know, I remember thelast three times that I was in
the car with dad, one of thosetimes I got ice cream.
And so when dad says get in thecar, I just run and get in the
car.
And it's not a consciousthought, but it's a subconscious
(38:15):
experience of like, this is justnew and novel for me, and it's
fun.
I I used to use this trick allthe time when I was when we got
a new car.
I would say, Oh, do you want totake the new car?
Should we go to the grocerystore in the new car?
And the kids would be like,Let's go to the grocery store,
which of course they don'tactually want to, but they want
to get in the new car.
And so there's there's an aspectof like the transition is hard,
(38:36):
but it can feel less hard whenthere's subconscious factors
going on here.
And one of those subconsciousfactors may just be that there
is something going on with yourhusband.
So it it may it may be that yourhusband is like really, really
fun, and that's why they arerushed to get in the car with
him.
It may be that your husband isnot really a safe person for
them, at least in the moment,they don't think of him as being
(38:58):
like a particularly safe personto be dysregulated around, and
so they don't act dysregulatedaround him.
Like it could be a lot ofdifferent things.
But I think that the actual wayof fixing this problem is to one
try lowering the intensity,right?
Go with a slower pace, name thetransition before you announce
(39:20):
it.
Hey, we're gonna do this in fiveminutes, we're gonna go get in
the car, et cetera, et cetera.
And then what I would do isfocus on giving as much autonomy
around the home as possible.
And this kind of goes with whatwe just said with the giving
choices, but I would just looklike like I've kind of been
waiting to say this, and I don'tknow exactly the right moment to
(39:42):
say it, but I think you the theyou can manage the transition in
a lot of different ways byslowing it down, by being just
more calm around the transition.
One piece of it is also justthat kids, and and I was waiting
to say it because I think atfour, this is where I think it's
the most important.
There is one aspect of this,which is just kids who say no
(40:05):
the most when they hear no themost.
Kids who hear yes more say yesmore.
And it's not just a modelingthing.
It is a, it's like a they havean autonomy tank that must be
filled.
And I don't know if this is theexperience with your
four-year-old, Cora, but I cantell you from experience with
(40:27):
all of my kids when they've beenfour, and now I have one that's
about to be four.
They have a certain amount ofautonomy that they need to enact
throughout the day, and it'sprobably literally like an
educational developmental thing.
Uh, in the same way that kidsneed a certain amount of tummy
time when they're six monthsold, or they certain need a
certain number of readingminutes when they're seven years
(40:48):
old and eight years old to likelearn how to read effectively,
and they just need repetitionsof that.
One of the needs that your childhas it for is autonomy, and they
will get that autonomy need metby any means necessary.
And so kids who hear know themost become kids who say know
the most, and kids who hear yesthe most are kids who say no the
least.
They say yes the most becausethey know.
(41:09):
And and this is a phrase thatyou can use, all of you,
everybody on the call can use,everybody on the call, everybody
on the podcast can use.
I did a workshop yesterday, andso I'm still thinking everybody
on the call, um everybody on theworkshop can use.
Everybody on the podcast canuse.
You can say this phrase, it'sone that I learned and I had to
(41:30):
learn to say.
It's if I could say yes, Iwould.
And then I lit learned to liveinto that motto.
But if my kid I I realized if mykids believed that if I could
say yes, I would, they would beway more hit willing to hear me
say no.
If they thought that I just saidno about everything arbitrarily
(41:51):
all the time for no reason, thenthey didn't want to hear it when
I said no.
Because dad always says no.
But if they felt like I alwaysgenuinely tried to say yes when
I could, but right now we haveto put on our shoes and get in
the car.
That was way more tolerable.
And so there could be a lot ofthings going on here.
(42:12):
I I don't want you to feel likea bad parent, Cora.
It really centrally, what Iwould say is another big aspect
to this, and I just I have towrap because because we're out
of time on the episode, butanother big access at uh piece
of this is if you start to feellike your child doesn't like
you, then you start to put offthat energy.
You don't like me, and and andyou don't listen to me, and you
(42:33):
don't respect me.
And I don't want you to thinkthat.
As I just listed, there's amillion reasons why this is
happening, and none of them isthat your child doesn't respect
you.
Uh it I guarantee you that yourchild respects you and loves
you.
It's that like unconditionally,kids respect and love their
parents.
It's really hard to make kidsnot love and respect their
parents.
(42:55):
But developmentally, they stillneed to push those boundaries
and they still need to pushback.
And and for everybody, as I kindof conclude this episode because
I've because this is the end, umeveryone who's hearing this
today, I want you to listen towhat I'm about to say very
carefully, which is that asyou're going through this
(43:18):
experience of parenting, yourchild you may come into a
conflict with your child wherethe right thing for you is to
hold a boundary, and the rightthing for your child is to push
that boundary.
And that may cause inherentconflict where they scream no in
(43:38):
your face.
But it's the right thing forthem to do developmentally.
And the right thing for you todo developmentally, or from a
parenting perspective, from adiscipline perspective, is to
say, I don't I don't like howyou spoke to me right there.
And that does not mean anyonefailed, it meant that everybody
was getting what they needed outof it.
That interaction.
(43:58):
And so if your kid is screamingno at you, try and give them
more yes.
Try and give them more choices.
Try and understand what's goingon.
They're not manipulating you.
They're not they don't likesomebody else more than you.
Being autonomy supportiveactually leads to long-term
physical, mental, emotional,relational health.
(44:20):
And if you have that kid who'sscreaming no, don't take that
out of them.
Because that is going to be oneof their greatest traits.
Okay.
That's what I got for you.
I'll see you next time.
Thank you for your timelistening to the whole parent
(44:42):
podcast today.
I hope you got something out ofit.
I have a couple quick favors toask of you as we end the
episode.
The first one is to jump over onwhatever podcast platform that
you are listening to right nowand rate this show five stars.
You'll notice there are a lot offive-star ratings on this show,
whether that's on Spotify orApple Music or Apple Podcasts.
(45:03):
We have a ton of five-starratings and it helps our podcast
get out to more people thanalmost any other parenting
podcast out there.
And so it's a really quick thingthat you can do if you have 15
or 20 seconds.
And if you have an additional 30seconds, I'd love to read a
review from you.
I read all the reviews that comethrough.
If some if you particularly likeone part of the podcast or you
(45:24):
like when I talk about somethingor whatever, imagine that you're
writing that review directly tome.
The second thing that you can dois go and send this episode to
somebody in your life who youthink could use it.
Think about all the parents inyour life.
Think about your friends, yourfamily members who could use a
little bit of help parenting.
It's vulnerable to share anepisode of a parenting podcast
(45:47):
with them.
I get it.
But imagine how much better yourlife is as a result of listening
to this podcast, of following meon social media, of getting the
emails that I send out.
You can share that with someoneelse too.
And so I encourage you, just goover, shoot them a quick text,
share this episode with them, orshare another episode that you
feel like is particularlyrelevant to them.
(46:08):
The last thing you can do is godown to the link show notes at
the bottom.
And like I said, in themid-roll, you can subscribe on
Substack.
It's$5 a month or$50 a year.
Uh I don't have that many peopledoing it, and yet the people who
are doing it have made thispossible.
And so if you like this episode,if you like all of the episodes,
(46:29):
if you want them to continue,the only way that I can keep
making them is through donorsupport, free will donations to
the podcast.
Please, please, please, please,as you're thinking about the end
of this year, as you're thinkingabout your charitable giving, I
know I'm not a 501c3.
You can't write it off on yourtaxes, but if you'd like to give
me a little gift to just saythank you for what you've done
(46:52):
this year, the best way to dothat is over on Substack.
Again,$5 a month,$50 a year.
It's not going to break thebank.
It's probably less than youspend on coffee every week.
Definitely less than you spendon coffee every week.
Maybe uh less than you spend onalmost anything, right?
Five bucks a month is very, verysmall, but it goes a long way
when it's multiplied by all ofthe different people who listen
(47:14):
to the podcast and sending thatover to me.
I get all of that money.
It's just my way of being ableto produce the podcast, spend
money on equipment, spend moneyon subscription fees, hosting
fees for the podcast, all ofthat stuff.
Email server fees, all that.
So if you're willing to do that,I would love it.
Thank you so much for listeningto this episode, and I'll see
you next time.
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