Mastering Wildlife Photography: Insights from Pro Photo Guide Mike Hillman

Episode Transcript
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Court (00:01):
Welcome back, friends, to another episode of the Wild
Photographer.
I'm your host, Court Whelan,and today we have none other
than Mike Hillman joining us.
He is a pro photo guide thatspecializes in everything from
bears to photographinglandscapes in the desert
southwest.
He's also the director of photoexpeditions at Natural Habitat
Adventures, a nature travelcompany that excels in planning

(00:22):
and guiding these photo journeysaround the world.
But before we get into today'sepisode, a quick shout out to
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Now, without further ado, helpme welcome Sir Michael Hillman.

Mike (02:27):
I don't know if I've been knighted just yet.
That's a little bit ways downthe line.

Court (02:31):
I was hoping you'd say gosh, you knew Nobody's ever
acknowledged that I've beenknighted.
Yeah, that's something to aspireto for sure.
Well, let's get right into it.
So you lead some of the mostepic nature and wildlife
adventures around the world.
I don't need to tell you that,but telling folks in the
audience from bears to Iceland,to Greenland and not just bear,

(02:56):
but like polar bears, grizzlybears, all sorts of stuff and
these are some of the areas mostcoveted in the world for
wildlife, nature, travel,photography.
How did you get into it?
And with that, what advicemight you have to those that
wish to follow in your footsteps?

Mike (03:13):
Yeah, I think it's kind of an interesting path because
it's not the one you'd expect ora very typical direction into
getting into traveling acrossthe world and photographing all
these unique wildlife and beinga bear guide in places like
Alaska.
I grew up in Michigan, in thenorth woods of Michigan.
I thankfully still had one ofthose childhoods where at

(03:34):
dinnertime my mom would go outinto the back porch of the house
and just yell into the woodsfor me to come home for dinner.
So I spent a lot of time in thewoods lifting up logs, looking
for salamanders, catching fishand turtles in the ponds behind
our house, those kinds of things, and so I really much was drawn
to nature photography andnature in general.

(03:55):
I watched a lot of Steve Irwinand Jeff Corwin, david
Attenborough.
Those are big inspirationsearly on in my life.
So I went into college knowingthat I wanted to do something
with animals.
Now, to that point I didn'treally want to be a veterinarian
because I wasn't big into bloodand guts, those kinds of things
.
It wasn't great for me to see.
I didn't want to necessarily bea professor, because one of the

(04:17):
things I hate most in the worldis homework.
So I did not want to just addthat to my life professionally.
And on top of that, then thenext logical realm was something
in zookeeping working in zoos,and to date I had had a lot of
pets but my least favorite thingwas cleaning up after them.
So I was left with this idea ofI wanted to do something with

(04:38):
wildlife and animals, but Ididn't want to be a professor or
a zookeeper or a veterinarian,those kinds of things, and so I
wasn't sure where that was goingto take me.
But I knew I wanted to dowildlife.
So I got my degree from MichiganState University in zoology and
during that time I thankfullylucked into this side of zoology

(04:59):
I hadn't heard of previously,which was zoo education,
wildlife education.
My parents can attest that Ispent a lot of time in my youth
teaching them about the wildlifeI was learning about through
Jeff Corwin, steve Irwin, thoseguys, and so I realized that I
could get paid to talk aboutanimals for a living, and so
that was kind of my lightningrod moment and so started in

(05:20):
that realm within the zoo world.
I was in the kind of educationdepartments in various zoos
around the country, bouncedaround with that, and at a
certain point I was ready to seethose animals I've been
learning about so much seeing inthe zoos.
I wanted to see them out in thewild and start traveling, and
that's when I started learningabout guiding and going out into
the field looking for theseanimals.

(05:41):
And so that was my next kind ofbig career change, still within
the realm of animals, but intoa new area that I didn't know
existed professionally untilwell after I got out of college.
From there I was a quick stepobviously over into photography
and being able to not only talkabout this wildlife but also

(06:01):
capture those images I can bringhome and then share with
audiences out in the field, andI've enjoyed it a lot.
As you said, I've spent a lotof time working with bears.
Polar bears in Northern Canada,in Alaska, with brown bears
Also have a very special placein my heart for the trips I've
led in Australia.
I really love those animalsbecause they're so unusual to

(06:23):
Americans to be able to talkabout how different marsupials
are to the wildlife we typicallysee here in the US, and so it's
a lot of fun to be able to kindof walk in Steve Irwin the
crocodile hunter's footprints,as I'm talking about some of the
same wildlife he talked aboutwhen I was growing up.
So it's been a fun ride, butcertainly a very circuitous one

(06:43):
to get to where I am today.

Court (06:45):
So when you were at the zoo and doing your education
interpretation, was therephotography involved prior to
that, or was that kind of yourclosest access to start doing
wildlife photography?
Where did that get woven in?

Mike (07:01):
Photography has always been something that I've picked
up and set down over the years.
I got my first camera from myfather.
He got me a Nikon d50 back inthe day Very early stage digital
camera, but I got some kitlenses that came along with it
from a family friend and I had alot of enjoyment with that.

(07:21):
In high school Into earlycollege I actually my first one
of my first interviews I everdid for a job was in college to
be the staff photographer forintramural sports at our
university.
I never got that job becauseit's a sports photographer and I
was giving them an album ofwildlife photos to show them of

(07:41):
my skill set.
So I completely understand themnot hiring me.

Court (07:44):
But look at the running cheetah.
It's perfect.

Mike (07:46):
It's crisp focus I should get a running football player,
if that's what you're asking,piece of cake.
Yeah.
With that I set the camera downfor a while.
It wasn't until after college.
I kind of picked it up againand then set it down.
I had a roommate for a whilewhen I was in my zoo days.

(08:07):
That was a strong photographer.
I kind of picked it up again inlearning from him and it was
kind of another one of thosemoments where I'd taken some
wildlife photos and taken somenature photos growing up.
But when I was at a zoo andseeing these animals I'd see day
in and day out and try tocapture those unique behaviors.
I'm not just not kind ofhanging out in the corner or

(08:27):
eating, but now running aroundand looking into the camera.
That really excited me againbecause it's that moment of
getting that one image you hadin your head.
I was like I just wanted toturn its head a little bit to
the right, look down at my lensand then get the photo, and so
that sparked me again and then Ihaven't looked back and then of
course it's served me quitewell in my guiding career,

(08:47):
because everyone who goes outlooking at all these beautiful
places and finding theseinteresting animals, they want
to be able to capture an imageand then bring it back home with
them and so learning my camera,learning what they can do to
increase their photographyskills.
It's been a strong component ofmy guiding With zoo photography
.

Court (09:05):
I know personally that it's oftentimes an entry point
for a lot of wildlifephotographers, especially those
kind of looking at kind ofserious hobby or even second
careers.
I see a lot of workshops thatgo to the Denver Zoo or the
Tampa Zoo or wherever it mightbe.
Any thoughts or takeaways fromlike what you've learned with

(09:26):
zoo photography that mighttranslate to wildlife?
In the wild photography youknow, other than the obvious,
like okay, that that's an animal, here's some things.
But yeah, anything that jumpsout to you of like this is a
really, really great way topractice, because xyz I love
going to zoos to practicephotography because, as they say
, it's a target rich environment.

Mike (09:48):
there's a lot of interesting animals that you can
take photos of and certainlylike going like hi hey, I'm
gonna do an african safari insix months.
Let's go to the zoo and takesome pictures of elephants and
zebras, because that gets you atleast some basic ideas of your
camera settings you're going touse with those same animals,
because the lighting conditionsmay be similar, the trick of
taking a picture of a black andwhite zebra.

(10:09):
You're going to have to learnthose things and if you can get
good at it at home before thengoing out in the field, you're
going to get much better imageswhen you're out there and be
much happier with what you'regetting, so you're enjoying your
trip while you're out there.
So it's a fantastic place topractice in that regard and kind
of learn those quirks and maybeeven, in some cases, learn the
behaviors of some of theseanimals that you want to capture

(10:30):
once you get out into the field.
So I think it's a fantasticplace to practice and hone your
skills and get good with yourcamera with those animals before
you go out into the field totry to get the wild cousins of
them.

Court (10:42):
Yeah, I fully agree.
I think some people might lookat it as you know prepping for a
Botswana safari or what haveyou Going to the zoo might be,
you know, sort of a pre-tripletdown, because you know what's
going to be happening to youand around you in the coming
weeks or months or whenever youdecide to go.
However, it goes back to thatwhole practice, practice,

(11:02):
practice thing.
I mean I think that you canprobably agree.
However, it goes back to thatwhole practice, practice,
practice thing.
I mean I think that you canprobably agree.
You know, most of the reason whyI'm a decent photographer is
because you know, taken amillion or 2 million photos over
the last 20 years.
So the more you can add to thatgreat way to dial in your
settings, great way to getfamiliar with their camera, even
if it's just the challenge oftoting it around, the challenge

(11:23):
of changing lenses when there'sa flurry of activity or waiting
patiently for a certain behavioryeah, love that advice.
So I'm in a unique position inthat I have guided alongside you
on trips and I've also beenguided by you on some trips
trips that I wasn't guided, butgoing along as a photographer,
collecting images, and so I knowthat you are an absolute

(11:46):
maestro at bear photography, soI want to zero in on bear
photography for the next littlebit.
What are some tips and tricks?
You know, mike, puttingyourself on the shores of
Chinitina Bay in Alaska orelsewhere?
What are some tips and tricksthat you'd like to offer when
photographing bears and maybeeven other big, charismatic
wildlife?

Mike (12:07):
I absolutely love photographing bears.
They're very expressive andunderstanding their behavior is
an instant reward when it comesto being able to capture the
types of images that you'rehoping for.
I think being out there in thefield and watching their
behavior is super important.
I think with wildlifephotography in general I think

(12:28):
if you ask that question to alot of wildlife photographers
it's going to be high on theirlist is understanding the
behavior of that animal.
And the reason why they'resaying that is be able to
predict what the animal is goingto do next so you can set
yourself up for the right imageand so getting your settings
just right, aiming in the rightdirection those kinds of things.
You can predict that behaviorand with bears being so
expressive, you get thatopportunity to actually predict

(12:50):
their behavior, understandingwhat their needs are.
So are they going for foodright now?
Do you think they're lookingfor a mate?
Are they worried about theirsafety?
Are they traveling along theshore?
Those kinds of things are thetypes of behaviors that are
running through my mind to thenunderstand what to do next with
that bear.
While I'm out there, with bearsin particular, another thing I

(13:12):
always look for compositionallyis a term that my wife coined
because she's also a bear guideand photographer.
She coined perfect posture, butthat's P-A-W-S-T-U-R-E and
that's where, with a four-leggedanimal, you want to try to get
that beautiful silhouette whereyou get all the legs in um

(13:33):
separation from each other sothat you don't have any
crossover and doesn't look likeyou have a three-legged or a
two-legged animal.
And with bears in particular,they, the way they walk, their
front paw will actually come upand curl in just slightly as
they take that next step.
And that moment, right there iswhat I call perfect posture,
and so getting that image issomething I always look for and

(13:53):
I encourage my guests to try toget while they're out there too,
because that's kind of one ofthe best silhouette images or
the best kind of three quartersimage on a bear when they're
walking.
It was that paws up, you cansee the claws, you can see how
big the paw is and you see themmoving through the frame.
It's always something I lookfor with bears.

Court (14:10):
I love that.
And just a note to the audienceit might sound super nitpicky
in terms of getting thatperfection, but I'll attest from
the point of view of sitting infront of and photographing
bears at close range.
You are around bears like a lotnot just you, mike, but a
person photographing bears andit does get to the point where

(14:31):
you kind of have to maybe notachieve perfection, but you have
to at least have some sort ofgoal in your mind right?
I mean, if you just took everyphoto every second, you'd come
home with 100,000 photos and itwould take you a year to go
through them all.
But that's the beauty of someof these wildlife trips,
especially the ones that you'retalking about here, is that you
kind of can go into the trip,you can go into that moment with

(14:54):
a bit of a bit of a goal, evena lofty goal.
So I love that concept that youyou mentioned.
Uh, hats off to Jess, uh forthe perfect posture.
I'll have to mention that nexttime I see her.
That's great.
I think you know, as a side note, thinking about and maybe doing
some research ahead of a tripof like you know what are the
opportunities, what are thephotos that you like best,

(15:15):
because if you are interactingor maybe interacting is the
wrong word but if you're closeto brown bears, you're likely to
have a huge array of possiblephotos.
So having the ideal, havingthat, that perfection, uh, so to
speak, in your mind to to tryto get, is probably a really,
really great starting point.
So, yeah, I appreciate youmentioning that.

(15:36):
So you're also a birder andbird photographer.
I'm wondering what is, what isyour style or approach to bird
photography?
Is it kind of like a snap anddocument?
Are you trying to more createart with it?
What are some of the like, thesettings that get you to where
you want to be with your, yourbird photography?

Mike (16:05):
was birds first.
Even growing up in Michigan andliving in other parts of the US
, I wasn't seeing bearsregularly, so that came a lot
later in my profession.
But with birds they're easilyaccessible to anybody, and so
going out there and trying toget some unique images of some
of the common birds, I think isa key approach that I always
look at with bird photography,oftentimes the situation is
going to influence thosesettings.
We may have those kind ofbasics of like okay, if the

(16:26):
bird's going to take off, I wantto have a shutter speed that's
one over a thousand, one over2000,.
Somewhere in that range to kindof start with.
But you also want to try tofind ways.
Because they aren't mammals,it's difficult for them to
translate personality, and sotrying to find ways that you can
get that personality out of abird by their posture, the angle

(16:47):
of the way they're looking, ifthey're looking into the open
part of the frame that's a bigkey component for me is trying
to add that little extra.
So you're getting that portraitshot which I always call like
the safety shot.
Try to get a good like.
Okay, that could go up in thefield guide and I'd be happy
with it.
But then then try to pushyourself that next level of
getting that angle, getting somewing movement, some feather

(17:07):
movement, understanding how thelight's hitting the side of
their face, you're not gettingtoo bright or too dark.
Those are all keycharacteristics when I look at
bird photography.

Court (17:17):
And are you trying to generally shoot wide open with
an open aperture to minimizethat depth of field, or are you
playing around with a deep depthof field sometimes?
I know it's very circumstantial.

Mike (17:28):
But what?

Court (17:28):
goes through your mind, kind of oscillating between
those two ends of the extreme.

Mike (17:34):
Yeah, I think, with a narrow depth of field.
That's usually where a lot ofbird photographers and even I go
to most of the time, because alot of birds, of course, are
going to be up in sort of somesort of plant life.
I'm living now here in Arizonaand so they're up in cactus and
some mesquite when I was up inMichigan, pine forests and oak,
those kinds of things.
There's a lot of branches andleaves, and so that narrow depth

(17:58):
of field is super important toblur that out, because you as
the photographer, the artist,are trying to highlight your
subject most, and so you want todraw your viewer's eye to the
subject which is going to be insharp focus, and all that
busyness of the forest in thebackground is blurred out.
So that's, uh, usually the wayI I do my photography.
But there are those instanceswhere you do the animal scapes,
the, where you put that animalin the landscape and highlight

(18:21):
its environment and its habitatas part of that overall story.
You're going to teach and showabout your subject the bird in
this case and so in thoseinstances that's where I'm going
to get a deeper depth of fieldso you can show some of that
background.
But you have to be very carefulbecause you can't really do
that if that bird's just rightinto the woods.
You need to find some openingwhere there's a little bit more

(18:43):
of a separation, so you can addthat sharpness to the background
, but it doesn't detract fromyour subject, your bird in this
case.

Court (18:51):
We're going to jump over later in the conversation to the
gear you're currently using,but before we go away from bears
and birds, just quick questionfavorite lens you're using right
now for each Favorite lens forbear photography, favorite lens
for bird, favorite lens you'reusing right now for each
favorite lens for bearphotography, favorite lens for
bird?
Uh, and then I'd love to hear,just personal curiosity, what
would be your dream lens?

Mike (19:11):
you know money.
If money were no, object.

Court (19:13):
If size and weight were no object.

Mike (19:15):
Dream lens for for both or either I would say my go-to for
any wildlife photography is mysony-600mm f5.6-6.3.
That is the usual lens, that'smy carrying lens, even though
it's on the heavier side.
Something that I learned fromone of my photography mentors
early on was that with regardsto what lens to have on your

(19:39):
camera, what to have ready atany moment and he goes
landscapes don't move.
You have time, but wildlifemoves.
So always have your camera setup for wildlife and you can
always switch it.
You can change your lens whenyou're doing landscape
photography, and so that's inthose moments where I'm like,
okay, now it's a sunset orsunrise, I can switch those
lenses.
But otherwise, if I'm just outon a hike, if I'm out walking,

(20:00):
exploring, I've got my wildlifelens because that bird or that
other animal is going to pop upfor 10, 15, 30 seconds if you're
lucky.
So you want to be ready for it.
So the 200 to 600 is what I usemost of the time, because, as a
photography guide as well, Ican't spend too much time with

(20:22):
changing lenses or getting justexactly the right equipment.
I need to have something that'sa good workhorse that can get
me a little bit wider with a 200millimeter or get me that far
distance, at 600 millimeters,which is super important when
you're photographing over yourguest's shoulder to get that
same environment.
So that's usually what I use, Ithink.
Of course, when we talk aboutour wishlist lens, what lens
would we want?
If weight and expense was anissue, getting a 600 prime would

(20:46):
be glorious, because, uh well,this one at 5.6 it's not bad
where I'm photographing a lot.
When you talk about alaska,where it's oftentimes cloudy,
you're sometimes in some thickspruce forests or bird
photography when you're often inthe forest as well, I mean that
any little bit of light issuper important.
So if you can get a smalleraperture in the 4.5 range or

(21:09):
lower than that, that's umdoubles the amount of light, if
not quadruples the amount oflight, and so that's super
critical in those momentsbecause, um, I suffer from the
pixel peeping a little bit.
I'll spend too much timelooking at the, the noise level
in my photos and seeing if it'sgood enough quality.
Even though I'm not planning onprinting every single photo I
ever take at 36 inches orsomething like that, I still

(21:33):
want to make sure that qualitylooks good, and so being able to
drop that noise down because ofthat aperture change with a 600
prime.
That would definitely be mywishlist.
Lens.

Court (21:42):
The 200 to 600.
Yeah, I feel like for justabout every camera platform out
there, there's one lens thatwould get me to switch away from
canon and the 200 600 is suchan extraordinary range um.
Was it's 4.5 at 200, which ispretty darn good, or is it 5.6?

(22:03):
It starts at 5.6, then that'sfine too.
But like the fact that it's 600at 6.3 is awesome.
Like my canon 100 to 500 topsout at 7.1 at 500.
So I can only imagine how muchnicer the blur uh might be 600,
six, three yeah.
Yep, I've, I've considered it,I've considered it, um, and then
, yeah, 600 prime I.
So I want to ask a little bitabout that again for personal

(22:25):
curiosity sakes.
Fun, fun fact I rented overkind of like the holiday time
period, um, like a 400, 2.8, uh,like, yeah, it's, that's been
to date, my dream lens.
Like if cost and weight andsize is no issue, like because I
just love 2.8, it's insane.
So, um, shout out to lensrentals for hooking me up with

(22:46):
that.
Lensrentalscom sponsor this,this podcast.
Um, I got to get my hands onthis 400 to eight.
It is as big as they say.
Like it is, it is a bazooka, itis heavy.
I'm pretty sure it's the sizeand weight of the 600, um, 600
F4 to 400, 2.8.
They don't make it 600, 2.8, uh, to the best of my knowledge,
maybe in like cinema for $75,000or something.

(23:09):
But either way, I, you know, ifI were to ever, um, you know,
find an extra kidney that Icould sell and get that lens,
I'm always wondering, like youknow, you can have one chance
right At that range.
Is it 402, eight or is it 600F4?
And in the wildlife world islike, yeah, why wouldn't you
want more reach.
Yes, 2.8 is twice the light,but F4 is pretty darn good and

(23:34):
I'm just wondering you knowcause you you are shooting at
600.
There's no difference in thefocal length between that and
this big fancy prime that we'retalking about.
But I'm always a little bitworried that I'm going to have
too much telephoto, like whatwhat's your opinion?

Mike (24:01):
Is it kind of like you know what more the merrier.
Let's go big, because you'reprobably still going to crop in
even after that in places wherethe temperature changes can vary
quite a bit?
In Alaska, you may have coldair and you're on a gravel bar,
but then there's this grassymetal that's heating up and
you're going to have heat wavesAnything over 600, I mean
sometimes at 600, I'm seeingthose heat waves and it can be

(24:22):
quite annoying.
So getting too much range iscertainly an issue.
I've found that in thosesituations where, oh shoot, I'm
at 600 prime and I couldn't goback down to 200 millimeters, I
oftentimes will use that as acouple different experiences.
One either I start thinkingabout OK, what can I do with my

(24:42):
lens at this range, and that'sthe isolations or the abstract
photos.
So for a bear, there are allthese features of the bear that
are really interesting.
So getting that fluffy bear ear, or getting a snarl in the
mouth where you can see the noseand one of the teeth, getting
just the eye, or getting anabstract of just the fur on the

(25:04):
side of the body or, of course,the bear claws, those are
situations where, like if I'mjust too close.
Those are the images I'mgetting and I'm happy with those
, because when we talk abouttelling the story, it's not
always that perfect bearsilhouette or that bear walking
through frame.
You got to have all thesedifferent angles, these
different zooms, zoom out, zoomin those kinds of things, and so
those situations where I'm tooclose to the bear, so to speak,

(25:26):
to get the usual shot, take anopportunity to do that, so to
speak.
To get the usual shot.
Take an opportunity to do that.
But at the same time, as aphotographer, there are
instances where you spend somuch time behind the lens that
you forget to enjoy the moment.
And I think having a lensthat's too big means that when
that bear does get close, youget to enjoy that moment,

(25:47):
because you have to put yourcamera down, you're not going to
get the image because you'reoutside of your focal range, and
you can just sit back and enjoyand you may feel a little
lament that you're losing animage, but I mean that's where
you can use your smartphone toget some video, or you can just
sit there and just soak in thatexperience, because as a

(26:07):
photographer, you're thinkingabout all those images
constantly you want to try toget, and you put so much
pressure on yourself that you'renot enjoying it sometimes, and
so that's a way to forceyourself to enjoy that moment
when those animals are thatclose, which is great.

Court (26:21):
Man, that is super interesting to hear.
I've not heard nor thoughtabout that perspective, but it's
truly a beautiful one.
Well, now I'm even more on thefence Again.
I still got to locate thatthird kidney, but uh, if I do,
maybe I'll once again considerthe 600.
Uh, so I am very borderlineobsessed, but very curious and

(26:45):
very interested in photographicstyles.
Um, you know, we talk a lotabout settings and the shutter
speed and the aperture and thereare differences in what the
photo is going to look like withthose, of course, and between
camera makes and models.
But most of the differencecomes from the eye and, dare I
say, maybe editing work.
But it all is mixed together toform the individual

(27:08):
photographer's style.
I'm wondering, what is the MikeHillman style?

Mike (27:14):
I think every photographer at a certain point sits back
and you go do I have a style?
What is my style?
And that's a tricky one for me.
I think if you were to look atmy website, look at my Instagram
and start kind of going through, I think what you'd see is that
generally, I like kind of big,bold animals with strong colors,

(27:34):
of course being very carefulnot to oversaturate or make
things look unnatural.
I think I still want to leantowards that photojournalistic
side of editing and how I'mpresenting my work, but those
bigger animals, those boldercolors, and then trying to show
some emotion or expression inthe animals.
You don't ever want toanthropomorphize them because we

(27:57):
don't really know what theirexistence is like, but giving
those expressions, those anglesfor looks, the behavior,
sticking their wings up for abird or putting them in an
environment that really showsoff what they have to survive
day in and day out, to thrive intheir environment, I think
those are key characteristicsfor me.

(28:18):
And, of course, I'm not just awildlife photographer.
I like to dabble in a lot ofdifferent types of photography
and so that's where, when itcomes to style, I try not to put
myself too much in a box,because you have a tendency.
A photographer has a tendency,if they're thinking about their
style too much, that when theyenter in a situation where they

(28:38):
can't get that photo, they'rejust stuck, they don't get the,
they don't try something new,they don't push themselves to
the next level or at a differentdiscipline within photography.
And so understanding there aredifferent styles and maybe
dabbling in them, I think issuper critical.
I think for me the eye-openingmoment for that was actually I
was guiding in Alaska, in DenaliNational Park, and to that

(29:01):
point I'd taken a lot oflandscape photography, wildlife
photography, with the grizzlybears that are in Denali, the
caribou, but for some reason Ihad my settings on a slower
shutter speed.
I think it was taking picturesof slow moving water at the time
and I set my camera down.
But as I did it, I pushed thecamera shutter by accident and I

(29:23):
was like, oh, shoot, butdigital digital film is cheap, I
can just delete this photo.
And so I hit play to look at it, to delete it, and realized I
had done an abstract photocalled ICM, or intentional
camera movement, where I'dactually moved the camera while
taking the photo, and so I getthese beautiful streaks of green
and yellow from the tundragrasses that I was standing on,

(29:44):
and it was one of those lightbulb moments where I realized
that, even when I think asituation is done, I've got all
the photos I think I can get.
There are options out there formacro photography, for unique
lighting settings, for peoplephotography and these abstracts
which I really enjoyed.
And so it just goes to showthat, like, don't always put

(30:05):
yourself in your style box,because jumping out of your
style box allows you theopportunity to continue to use
photography.
Even when the moment doesn'tseem like it's best for your
usual style.
You can do something differentwith that moment and still enjoy
photography.

Court (30:32):
Walk me through a couple of your sliders and settings
that you're going to use, or atleast consider for most every
photo, and then, if you haveanything kind of in your recent
bag of tricks, like like thingsthat people may not know about,
or their new features.
I'll give you an example of ofone of mine.
These are not new features, butit's a new thing that I'm
really using a lot.
So we all know about maskingand I used to use a brush mask a
lot where I would like, youknow, brush a little bit of

(30:52):
light on this part of the photoif I thought it was too dark or
the shadows were too strong.
But I've started switching overa lot more to gradients and
radial filters, irises or theseellipses, circles, more or less,
versus harsh paint you knowwell metaphorical paint, the

(31:17):
brushstroke with a maskingoption where you can light and
dark and saturate, desaturatebased on a brushstroke.
Just wondering again, kind ofyour go-to editing thoughts,
tools and then anything thatsticks out as maybe something
that people aren't aware of orhaven't experimented with that
you think they should.

Mike (31:39):
For me, when I approach my editing again, I always try to
think of it from the perspectiveof what did I see out?
The environment, to make suremy editing stays within that
realm of photojournalism.
I'm, of course, putting thatpolish on the photo, especially
when you're photographing raw.
You're going to have to do someof that polishing from the
get-go.
But I always try to make surethat if I'm having these bold

(32:01):
colors, they aren't lookingunnatural.
So making sure I'm keeping aneye on the vibrance and
saturation sliders, in somecases actually desaturating just
a touch just to make sure thatthose reds and yellows don't
look too crazy.
I am a big sickler about whitebalance.
I want to make sure that mywhite balance looks normal.

(32:23):
That's one of the first thingsI notice on other people's
images because within my job I abit of a photo editor in
addition to the other thingsthat I'm working on, because I'm
looking at other guidesphotography and then utilizing
it in our marketing.
So I'm always doing tweaks totheir photos to kind of put them
out at the best quality theycan be.
So one first thing I notice isis it just a little too cool?
Is it just a little too warm?

(32:43):
So I'll oftentimes do that.
In some cases, with regards tomasking, I'll actually do a
slight mask difference betweenthe background and the animal.
With regards to, um, whitebalance a little cooler in the
background, a little warmer onthe subject I think that helps
to kind of again make yoursubject stand out.
Uh, some cases I'll use clarity, but I've got to make sure that

(33:05):
that contrast tool is usedsparingly so it doesn't look too
crispy, as they say.
And one of my go-tos isactually vignetting.
I'll go down all the way to thebottom of Lightroom Classic.
I'll hit the vignette, make ita little dark vignette around
the edges.
But the key with vignetting andI see this a lot with folks is
they'll go too far where you cansee the vignette in the image.

(33:28):
I think for me, when I vignette, I go, I slide it down to where
I can see it and then I bringit back until it almost
disappears.
So all it's doing is a subtletrick to the eye.
Because, as you know, and a lotof our listeners will know,
that the photography betweencomposition and the editing is
all about the psychology of theeye, allowing your viewer to

(33:51):
look specifically at the storyyou want to tell and using your
editing to help enhance thatafter getting the image out
there in the field.
And so by just darkening thecorners ever so slightly, you're
telling your viewer don't lookat the corners, look at my
subject.
That's in the center or offcenter or something like that.
So I always add those are myusual basics and then from there

(34:12):
.
I like your point about maskingand using radial linear masks.
I do that from time to time aswell, especially when it comes
to handling the sky versus theforeground.
I think that's huge.
I will do some brushstrokesfrom here and there, but you're
right, you got to be verycareful how much change you're
making to those brushstrokes,because it becomes very obvious
very, very quickly.
Um, I know a lot ofphotographers these days are

(34:35):
starting to use the lens blurfeature within lightroom.
Uh, I'm not like that so far.
Maybe the, the masking, andpeople will will do a little bit
better job with it.
You have to be very, verysubtle with those kinds of
touches, and so I tend to try todo all my blurring in camera,
so with a shallow aperture,those kinds of things.

(34:56):
But that's my general approach.
I try to be fairly light withit but just kind of bring that
life into it by brightening up alittle bit and adding a little
bit more color.

Court (35:05):
I think most folks will agree that if you can get the
photo to look a certain way incamera and most folks will agree
that if you can get the phototo look a certain way in camera,
right, that's always alwayspreferable, especially with blur
.
I do use a lens blur a littlebit, but yeah, not with like
every photo, whereas with mylens I might be blurring every
photo.
So, yeah, very some photo tripsrecently and we're now

(35:30):
incorporating a Photoshopworkshop as part of each and
every trip and we're gettingsome great attendance to that.
But a lot of people just reallyhaven't dabbled with editing
per se Lightroom, photoshop,camera Raw, et cetera, et cetera
.
So I have this little analogy.
I'll try it on for size withyou.
I'll try it on for size for youwith you.
Is, you know, if you've everseen the Olympics like a track

(36:01):
race and you have the four by100 race, right, you can win.
You should try to win byrunning those first three legs,
right, like that's going to setyou up for success.
But if you have a ringer at theend, that is just all-out
sprinter.
It's oftentimes your fastestrunner.
It's the closer you can comefrom behind, or you can at least
come from the middle and winthe race, and that's sort of
what I look at is like thephotograph versus the editing.
Like the photograph is thefirst three legs, that gets you

(36:22):
in the right position.
But then if you have your bestsprinter at the end to take that
baton and boogie with it, youactually might come out as the
victor of the whole thing.
So I don't know, I'm stillworking on my delivery of it,
but you can use that if you wantmy gift to you.

Mike (36:39):
Yeah, I do appreciate that analogy.
I think that makes a lot ofsense because you could even
break down each legs.
One leg is your composition,your creative eyes and artists.
Another leg is your camera andits settings creative eyes and
artists.
Another leg is your camera andits settings those kind of and a
third leg being your subject orwhat you're choosing to take a
photo of.
I think that's a great analogy,because there are times when I

(37:00):
definitely will take a photo andnot think much of it, but then
bring it into Lightroom and do afew edits and be like you know
what actually this, with alittle bit of massaging, this
photo, can stand out.

Court (37:08):
I'm happy with the technology we have these days to
bring to life some of thesephotos that otherwise we would
have just discarded, I thinkthat's exactly it, because it's
some, you know, maybe a photo ofan amazing behavior or just
this really unique time of day,unique lighting, but the photo
is more or less botched becauseof ISO or just you know, for

(37:28):
whatever reason.
It's amazing what this tech cando.
In addition to being a prophoto guide, you also head up as
director of photography forNatural Habitat Adventures, a
travel company out of the USthat does worldwide adventures,
so you're kind of like in thelogistics but probably more
programmatic side of theplanning of these adventures.

(37:51):
I was wondering, you know, justknowing you personally, kind of
on your constant quest to upthe ante on what goes into photo
trips, what sort of things gothrough your mind in like
planning a photo trip or vettinga company or things to look out
for, or how can a photo trip gofrom good to great or great to
excellent?
What are some of the rawingredients out for?
Or how can a photo trip go fromgood to great or great to

(38:12):
excellent?

Mike (38:15):
What are some of the raw ingredients?
Yeah, I think when I startthinking about photographic
travel either in my ownphotographic travel or planning
photo travel for others you gotto think about that image list.
So what are those images, thoseshots that a guest might be
thinking about or you might bethinking about when you're
traveling?
Because, of course, when youtravel, there's a lot of

(38:36):
different factors.
Thinking about just getting achance to be in this environment
, see those kinds of wildlifeand those kinds of experiences
the cultural aspects of it, too,are always great.
But I think, as a photographer,you're definitely thinking, oh,
that's an image I want to get.
I want to have a chance, acrack at getting that experience

(38:57):
.
When you're looking at theimages that are presented online
and so that's where I startevery single time is if I'm
thinking about a photo trip inSouthern Africa or Eastern
Africa, you're thinking aboutyour big five, right so?
Your leopard, or your lion andrhino, giraffe, those kinds of
things, and so you're you're andmaking sure that that

(39:17):
experience is going to checkthose boxes of that shot list
that a photographer is going tocome with.
So, as a guest, if you'resomebody that's looking at a
photographic company or doingyour own travel.
That's who you probably want tostart with is create that list
of images that you would besuper happy to come home with
and then see does thisexperience, does this trip check

(39:37):
all those boxes?
I think that's super key.
This experience, does this tripcheck all those boxes?
I think that's super key.
And then from there, just havinga good time out on the field,
setting the right experience,the right culture among your
fellow travelers and yourphotographic guide.
I think that's key becauseoccasionally, when folks go out
on photo travel with othercompanies, you see the guide

(39:58):
themselves is a photographer andall those guests behind him are
the reason that he's able to beout there and so he's able to
get his shots.
But I think you need to find acompany where that guy is trying
to help you get the shots youwant, and if they can shoot over
your shoulder and get a fewshots as well, that's great.
I think that's always been mymentality when it comes to
photography.

(40:18):
I'm sure that's yours as well,court.
It's like I'm here for you andthen, if you're good, then I'll
get a few shots while we're atit.
I think that's always a keycomponent to this kind of travel
.

Court (40:28):
Yeah, exactly Anything for us is kind of just bonus,
right, Absolutely, Absolutely.
We've talked a lot aboutwildlife photography and we've
dabbled a little bit in somelandscape tips, but you are also
a pro guide in the canyoncountry of the US Southwest, the
American Southwest Desert.
What are some considerationsone should make when going out
for photographing in canyoncountry?

(40:50):
I'm thinking you know logisticsor time of day, maybe some gear
, maybe a little bit of thephotographic vision and
intentions.
What are some advice or what issome advice you have for folks
out there for planning trips andgoing out into canyon country?

Mike (41:07):
Yeah, so being in Arizona and be able to just go to
northern Arizona and southernUtah, to some of these beautiful
national parks like BryceCanyon National Park, zion,
grand Canyon.
Of course these places arefantastic for photography, but
they can be very, verychallenging, and one of the
biggest things that'schallenging about canyon country

(41:28):
photography is harsh,contrasting light, because these
canyons themselves you may insome cases be down at the bottom
of the canyon looking up atthese canyon walls, like in the
cases of Zion National Park, oryou're photographing down into
the canyon, like in Bryce Canyon, along the rim there, and so
the light is doing veryinteresting things because as

(41:48):
that sun's rising or as it'ssetting, it's filling light into
that canyon and making the skyvery, very bright.
Or vice versa, you get a very,very dark canyon while you get
this beautiful sunrise or sunsetlight as the sun is scattering
on the clouds.
So understanding how to attackthat moment is super key.

(42:08):
So either doing HDR bracketing,taking multiple exposures you
can blend later.
I think is a goodcharacteristic of that we have
the benefit these days with alot of mirrorless cameras.
Their dynamic range is broad.
It's oftentimes very easy,without blowing out your sky too
much, being able to bring upsome of those shadows, as long

(42:30):
as your ISO isn't too high, thatyou're going to have a lot of
noise there.
So understanding that is supercritical.
I think another thing that'sreally fantastic about that part
of the country is that most ofthose parks and most of those
areas are rated for dark sky.
There's not a lot of people outthere, there's not a lot of
cities, which means you get somefantastic stars.

(42:51):
You get the Milky Way and someother astronomical events you
can capture there.
And so understanding how totake a photo at night, I think,
is another the keycharacteristic.
Always when I plan these trips,uh, I, I do one night that's
kind of a, a throwaway astronight where maybe we're not
having the best subjects, butit's an opportunity without a

(43:12):
lot of um kind of say, like alot of worry about getting the
right shot by going to an area.
That's kind of so-so as far ascomposition wise, but it allows
folks to practice with theircamera, understanding their
tripod, understanding thesettings, to be able to get the
kind of image they want.
So when we go to places likeZion at night or Grand Canyon at

(43:33):
night, they can get some reallyfantastic images.
I think it's super key becauseeven some simple stuff you
forget about in the momentbecause you're so worried about
all your settings.
I can't tell you how many times, with a guest, I've had them
show me their camera and, like Idid, all the settings you told
me to do for this particularmoment, and all I'm getting is
black images every single time.

(43:54):
And I'll look at the front oftheir camera and, like step one,
take the lens cap off off, soget used to that, and then you
start taking some photos, sojust that rote memory of going
through astrophotography withyour camera.
Understanding it.
You can even take those kindsof images at home, even if it's
fairly bright, just to get anidea of the kinds of settings
you might start using or justwhere those settings are, that

(44:15):
you can change them so that whenyou're out in the field and
getting the stars and the MilkyWay that you want, you're ready
to go and have a little bit moreexperience with your camera.

Court (44:24):
There is indeed something about night photography that
gets people myself included justin a tizzy, oh yeah.

Mike (44:31):
Absolutely.

Court (44:32):
You forget and miss the silliest things.
There's something about likeeven in places where it's not
that cold at night.
You know, I'm thinking primarilyAurora photography where it is
cold, places where it's not thatcold at night you know, I'm
thinking primarily auroraphotography, where it is cold,
but yeah, even, yeah, even onthe, the rim of bryce canyon,
like there's just somethingabout being out of your element
in the dark, out in thewilderness, where, yeah you, you
tend to miss little things.
So, as always, practice,practice, practice.

(44:52):
I've got an astro question foryou, though, um, because there's
a lot of different viewpointson this, or at least you know a
couple, a couple, but verydivided viewpoints.
What do you, what do you do forfocus when you're, when you're
shooting stars?

Mike (45:06):
Yeah.
So that's another benefit Ilove, especially with the
mirrorless cameras, is, um, alot of people, when you look at
the lens and you see thatinfinity symbol for your focus
ring, everyone's like, oh, justpush it to infinity and you're
good to go.
And what I have found is thatmost lenses I've worked with,
especially at night, thatinfinity is just a little bit

(45:27):
too far.
And so with the digital cameraswe have today, we have the
ability to look live view at theback of the screen.
With my Sony A1, that's what Iutilize and by setting it to
manual focus and then aiming inthe general direction that I
want to go, I can turn thatfocus ring and when it's set to
manual focus, I have itautomatically set.

(45:48):
We'll bring up the zoomed inview of that scene.
So now what I can do is focus ona star.
So pick one of the bright starsin the scene that you want to
make.
Focus on that one star, so it'sat the smallest point it can
possibly be and that's going tobe, generally speaking, the
sharpest you're going to getthat image.
So I always do that focus onthe star versus anything else so

(46:09):
switching gears here, let's uh,let's indeed talk about gear.

Court (46:12):
Um.
So I've already asked you whatyour favorite wildlife lens is.
We already got the answer there, to 200 to 600.
What is your?
What is your second favoritelens?

Mike (46:22):
I think you're probably the same way with me is when
we're traveling, we have totravel light, especially when
we're photographically guiding.
We have all this other gear ontop of what we need to be able
to take photos.
So I generally only bring justtwo lenses with me.
I bring my 200 to 600, whichstays on the camera, and then
when I'm thinking aboutlandscapes, what I'm bringing is
my Sony 24 to 70 F 2.8.

(46:46):
That's my standard landscapelens.
It gets me within the range ofpeople photography as well, so I
can take photos of my guestsout there in their environment,
like a lot of guests appreciatethat, because as a photographer,
when do you get photos ofyourself?
Almost never.
So being able to see yourselfout in the field, getting those
photos, is super critical.
But it gives me that nice rangewhere I can zoom out and get

(47:11):
some really fantastic landscapesand it's got the good light
fast enough lens to be able toget some really dark situations
and brighten them up.
So those are by far the twolenses I utilize almost all the
time.

Court (47:20):
Do you have any X-factor lenses that you sometimes bring
out based on the situation?

Mike (47:26):
That's one of those things I was thinking about when it
comes to what is my third lens,if I'm going to bring one.
And it brings up an interestingstory in that when I met my
wife, this was back in the veryend of 2019, got to find out
that she was a photographer likeme and at the time I was
shooting Nikon and I asked her Iwas like, oh, what do you shoot

(47:47):
?
And she's like, oh, I'm a Canonphotographer.
And I was like, oh, so close asa photographer and a spouse
that's a photographer.
You're like, can we share gear?
Can we trade things back andforth?
Eventually, I switched over toSony, which I've loved.
I haven't looked back and Ieventually got her to switch

(48:07):
over to Sony and let me tell youthat's when I knew it was
serious was when she switched tothe same camera brand as me and
for me, my X Factor lens is alens that may not necessarily be
anyone else's X Factor, butit's a lens I don't use as often
because she usually has it onher camera, but it's the 100 to
400.
That's the lens that when I geta chance to use it.

(48:28):
It's a very fun lens for veryparticular situations.
I love it for the isolations andlandscapes.
Landscapes that was another oneof those moments when
photographing with my wife isher creative eye is very
different than mine, which Ireally appreciate because it
pushes me to look at anenvironment, a landscape, the
animal in a different way, whichI really enjoy.

(48:49):
And one photograph that sheloves taking in landscapes is
not just the wide, open viewwhere you get that beautiful
foreground.
You may have some mid ground offorest or a river, then you
have that mountainscape in thebackground, but by zooming in a
little bit you get those littleisolations of that same
landscape.
And so the craggy peak or onetree with the mountains in the

(49:10):
background, and the 100 to 400is super sharp and it zooms in
just enough to get thosebeautiful isolations of that
same landscape.
And so whenever I have this onmy camera, that's the first
thing I'm looking for are thoselittle vignette moments within
the overall view that I'mgetting with something like the
24 to 70.

Court (49:30):
Yeah, I love telephotos for landscape.
I probably equally, if not moreso, than the good old trusty
kind of ultra wide and wideangle, because it's all about
minimizing distractions andzeroing in on certain areas.
You know you were mentioningabout the challenge of, uh,
contrast, high contrast in thecanyon country.
Great way to minimize that isto zoom way far in and find that

(49:53):
equally evenly lit spot andmake that your entire frame.
So, yeah, 100 to 400.
I hear you there and it's funnyit really wasn't too long ago
that that was kind of like allof our go to zoom telephotos.
Anyway, it's really only beenthe last, I don't know 510, I
guess 10 years that these supertelephotos are coming at the two
to fives, the two to sixes, the100 to 500.

(50:15):
So, yeah, 100 to 400 stilldefinitely earns a place in my
heart as well.
Okay, what is a piece of gearfor your nature photography that
is surprisingly helpful thatpeople may not think about?
And it doesn't have to be.
It can be a lens, it doesn'thave to be a lens or a camera,
something that is gear relatedbut disproportionately helpful.

Mike (50:40):
Yeah, gear related but disproportionately helpful.
Yeah, I think for me, myunusual piece of kit that I
bring along that probably peoplegive me weird looks on, but I
have to have it with me at alltimes Interestingly enough, is
one of those collapsible camptoothbrushes, and the reason for
that is not to brush my teeth,but it's to clean my gear.
You oftentimes people bringyour usual lens brush and you

(51:02):
want to keep that fairly cleanand you don't want a lot of grit
on it because all you're goingto do is just when you brush off
the lens, you're going to getall that stuff on there and
you're going to scratch yourlens.
So how do you clean your gear?
That's not the front element ofyour lens and that's where this
camping toothbrush comes intoplay, is it's brushed off every
single one of my camera bodieswhen they get really dirty from

(51:23):
a dusty environment, like in thecanyons, I've cleaned very
thoroughly my tripods.
When I'm utilizing them onbeaches, you get that wet sand
and if you collapse your tripodand get that sand inside there,
it takes a lot of work to cleanit out.
It takes a lot of work to cleanit out, and so this is just a
piece of cleaning kit that Ialways have with me, because I

(51:44):
can always brush off somethingwhen I'm out there in the
environment and keep thingsclean and working well,
especially if you've got one ofthose lenses that when they zoom
, they telescope out If you getany sand or grit on there.
That's the first thing I'mdoing is brushing that off with
my camp toothbrush before I zoomit back down so I can put it
back in my bag, because you'rejust going to keep introducing
that grit to all your equipment.

Court (52:04):
I love that.
It's one of those toothbrushesthat have the little case.
You know you can take off thebrush itself.
That's a great idea.
So I also carry a toothbrush,but I have to wrap it in like
duct tape just to remind myselfthis is not my toothbrush.
I do not want to put this in mymouth because it's got grease
on it and oil and dirt yeah.

(52:25):
Yeah, If you put that in a Petridish you'd have like a little
mini Jurassic Park after a month.
So that's a great, great tip.
I love that one.
Well, Mike, fantastic.
Thank you so much for all thewords of wisdom, the advice, the
ideas.

Mike (52:39):
Where do people find you, so you can find me in a couple
different places.
My website is calledmikehillmanmediacom, where you
can find my photos.
I also have some publicationsand videos.
I do a lot of webinars andvideos for my company, so you
can learn a little bit moreabout photography from me there
and just my zoology backgroundas well.

(53:00):
You can also find me onInstagram at wildventurer, and
that's like adventure withoutthe AD.
Wildventurer on Instagram.

Court (53:11):
Killer, mike.
Well, I appreciate all that.
We'll put all those things inthe show notes for you folks.
Mike, it's been a pleasure.
Thank you so much once againand thanks for joining.
Thank you so much once againand thanks for joining.
Thank you, folks.
I hope you enjoyed listening totoday's episode as much as I
enjoyed making it.
I wanted to point you in thedirection of a couple additional
resources that I think you'llfind helpful as budding and

(53:32):
advanced photographers out there.
First off, my YouTube channel.
It's just searching on YouTube,Court Whelan, or @ Court Whelan
.
That's going to have all mypodcast episodes in addition to
other helpful videos.
This is going to be aboutconservation, travel and
photography a mixture of allthese different things.
In addition, if you head overto my website, just
wwwcourtwhalencom that's court,just like a tennis court, and

(53:56):
Whelan W-H-E-L-A-N you're goingto see a chance to sign up for
my blog.
Yes, a chance, the lucky you.
You can sign up to receivearticles from me, and, again,
these are on largely photographytopics, but I do throw other
things in the world ofconservation and travel in there
as well.
So those are two resources foryou the YouTube channel, as well

(54:16):
as my personal website,courtwhalencom.
You can also, in addition toseeing some of the blog articles
and getting notifications aboutnew articles that do come out,
you can also see some of my ownphotography, and I think one of
the best ways to learn and beinspired is viewing other
photographers' work, to see whatthey might be up to, look at
the world through their lens andhelp you grow as a photographer
yourself.

(54:36):
So, once again, thank you somuch for joining today.
It means the world to me.
Keep on listening, feel free toshare this with a friend if you
think someone might beinterested, and looking forward
to chatting with you next time.
Bye.

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