National Geographic Photo Instructor, Giulia Ciampini, on the way to blend Art, Science and Storytelling in Nature Photography

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello friends, thank you so much for tuning in today.
On today's episode, I sit downwith Julia Ciampini, a wildlife
photographer, nationalGeographic photo instructor and
a very passionate educator.
We're going to dive into a lotof things, but one of the main
things we explore is thismagical intersection of art,
science and storytelling with aconservation twist.

(00:21):
From her childhood adventureswith her father's camera gear to
guiding polar bear expeditionsand really shaping conservation
narratives, julia shares herjourney of discovery, artistry
and finding harmony between thisidea of creativity, biology,
conservation and photography.
We dive into mastering gear,curating photographic stories

(00:42):
and her unique approach toteaching in the field.
Remember, she's a Nat Geo photoinstructor, so lots to learn
there.
This is a conversation filledwith a lot of insight and
inspiration for photographers,conservationists and nature
lovers in general.
So let's go ahead and dive in.
Before we do so, quick shoutout to sponsors of the episode
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(02:13):
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ado.

(02:33):
Let's get into my conversationwith Julia.
So I listened to a webinar youdid recently and you have this
fascinating distinction betweensimply documenting something you
see versus the artistic eye increating something beautiful
photographically.
Can you perhaps speak to thatand walk me through your process
when you're seeing somethingbeautiful and how you have

(02:55):
perhaps trained your mind totake the photo to the next level
again, from documenting to thebeauty or to the artistic vision
?

Speaker 2 (03:04):
Yeah, that's such a brilliant question.
So much photograph can so muchbe like a poem, and so you can
capture the essence of yoursubject.
Whether it's a place, a person,an animal, there's this essence
that subject has.
And if you can like, as aphotographer, you have all these
tools with you.
You have light, you have mood,composition, color, you have

(03:27):
your own artistic sense and yourintuitive sense and if you can
bring all of that and connectwith your subject, you move past
this, like just this documentof what this is, to an
interpretation, a translation ofthat subject into art.
And I think when I'm looking atlike really phenomenal

(03:49):
photographers work, there isthis poetry in their work.
They're able to go so farbeyond.
This is a photograph of, say, acaribou, but this is like the
essence of movement and how dowe show movement in our picture?
It's kind of like scrappingeverything that doesn't matter

(04:09):
in the picture and getting tothe core of what the subject is
about.
And so I think, as aphotographer, if part of being
able to do that or part ofgetting to that, is being so
comfortable with your gear, thatanalytical side of you, where
you're thinking what f-stopshould I be at, what shutter
speed should I be at Gets pushedaside and you can very deeply

(04:32):
connect with the moment.
And then you can be moreattentive and more connected to
the details.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
I love that and that makes me think of something I've
myself been thinking aboutrecently, which is kind of a
weird stretch, but it's theparallel to gear and photography
, to like gear and method andmusic and I don't know if you
play music or anybody out therein the audience plays music, I
dabble.
But I would say beingcomfortable with your gear, like

(05:01):
you say, fully agree highlyimportant is almost like knowing
how to play guitar perfectly,like being a virtuoso, that's
knowing your gear but thenknowing the song you want to
play, like the vision in yourhead of like, oh, this would be
really cool if we, you know, didsuch and such, like not having

(05:21):
any barrier to entry with makingyour fingers move and
understanding the theory behindmusic, but just the creation
aspect.
I think that's kind of what itis.
Once you get really good withyour camera gear and have this
scene before you, you knowexactly what you want to do with
it and it takes very, verylittle effort to translate that
into the actual actions of yourhands, of the gear itself, of

(05:42):
the instrument, so to speak, tospeak in this way kind of like a
scientific instrument, as acamera can be at some time.
So, yeah, that's a really I love.
That's super insightful aboutjust mastering gear.
I I love that you came out withthat super early on in the
conversation because it ishighly important and it's
something that comes with time.
But but you can certainly addspeed to that ability and that

(06:07):
propensity, that ability to useyour gear with practice and
listening to conversations likethis and learning from online
tools.
So, yeah, love that.
Thank you for sharing.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
It's so interesting that you're comparing this to
music and how the removal ofbarriers allows that flow of the
artistic voice, and I've beenthinking about that so much,
about even teaching peoplephotography.
A lot of your role as a teacheris to find the barriers that
they're encountering yourstudents are encountering and

(06:38):
removing it.
Not and as soon as you removethat barrier that you see that
progress or you see that studentkind of hurdle forward and then
they're able to expressthemselves more fully.
But there is those barriers toany craft and so much of our
learning is how do we remove themental barriers that we might
have or the technical knowledgebarriers or any of the barriers

(07:00):
that we might encounter?
How do we get rid of them?

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Yeah, and you know, we're actually going in like the
opposite direction today, wherethese cameras are getting so
complicated that I think thatpeople that aren't doing this
all day, every day, they don'thave the muscle memory like you
or I it's hard to grapple andgrasp how advanced these things
are and be able to find thething you need.
And then you know, not tomention just understand, the

(07:25):
escalating capacity of theselittle computers and machines
that are cameras today's day andage.
So, yeah, it's a superinteresting analogy there and it
just goes to show you that youknow gear and understanding the
technicalities is ultraimportant.
It sounds like a littleunromantic to say, because in
some ways, photography is just abeautiful, pure art form and

(07:46):
you think, oh gosh, well,understanding, you know how to
use these little computers andeven Photoshopping, which is a
big part of everything today.
But understanding, oh well, youknow if I could just set the
white balance and all these 18other things.
But at the end of the day, Imean, if you're a painter, you
got to know your paintbrushpretty well and your palette and
your color spectrum and how tomix colors, and it's really
quite similar.

(08:07):
So, yes, if there's a keytakeaway this early in the
conversation know your gear,know the technical side of it,
because then that allows you tomore easily, more readily,
express the art side of it.
Beautiful, A hundred percent,Cool.

(08:35):
So, Julia, I know you as aphoto guide in Churchill we met,
I think, a couple of years agoA hundred percent.
Tell me a little bit about thataspect of your photographic
journey and maybe a little bitabout your approach to hands-on
photo instruction in the field.
And while I'd love for you tokind of cover both the land side
that you know we do with ourtrips in Churchill and polar

(08:56):
bears, but I'm especiallypersonally curious about the
expedition vessel side and howthat comes to be, Like how it's
similar, how it's different,what the style is, you know, et
cetera.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
So yeah, that's a wonderful question.
It's funny, the first time Iever did a very immersive
photography experience, it wastaking a young student so high
school and college age studentsto Panama and we did a
photography program there and Ithink that set a stage for all
the work that I do now.
And so essentially we would dothese photography lessons and

(09:29):
then immediately go into thefield and practice these
concepts.
So, for example, you'd learnabout shutter speed and then
that day, that afternoon we'd goout surfing.
Half the students wouldphotograph the surfing and half
the students would go surfingand then they'd switch so they
can practice creative techniqueswith surfing, like shutter
speed and surfing.
And then you would go towaterfalls and we'd do night

(09:50):
painting and a lot of guidedpractice.
So you're in the field, you'velearned a concept and you're
immediately putting into play.
And I find my work with NatHabb and my work with Lindblad
kind of draws on that passion,that approach, where it might be
a little bit different, but youshare a technique or you share
a way of thinking with studentsand then immediately, right away

(10:12):
, they have this immersiveexperience where they can
practice what they've learnedand then get feedback on what
they've done.
Look at this image, what can Ido to improve it?
But during that moment ofcreation, I think it's so much
better if it's like thephotographer is in the moment
and not judging what they'redoing.
They're just in the momentcreating, and then after the

(10:32):
fact kind of coming around andsay what can I do better or what
other things can I utilize in amoment like this?
So the ship-based expeditionsare different in a few senses.
We often do maybe two or threeexpeditions in a day, so we'll
do like a hike or a zodiac rideor something from the ship.

(10:56):
And then, kind of immediatelyafter those few expeditions,
we'll come as a big group andgather together and do what's
known as recaps.
Come as a big group and gathertogether and do what's known as
recaps and these short littlepresentations about techniques
or things that the group saw andexperienced that day.
And then I think the one thingboth experiences are missing if
I'm going to look critically atboth is just that moment of

(11:19):
guests yeah, I'm going to saythis strangely but kind of being
forced to create a portfolio orbeing forced to create a body
of work as a result of theirexperience, and then that kind
of roundtable discussion aboutthat work.
Yeah, that's interesting.

Speaker 1 (11:35):
Do you ever?
So?
You said that that might bemissing.
Do you ever work with guests inthe post-processing and image
selection or culling aspect ofthings?
Is that something you mightwork with?
I imagine a little bit easieron boat-based expeditions, just
because you're not moving aroundso much.
You come back to the same placeevery night and there's a bit
of downtime and there's no youknow there's no transportation

(11:57):
needed so you can, you know,head to the lounge after dinner
and you know, work for fiveminutes, et cetera.
Is that something you've doneon trips?

Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah, absolutely so.
We'll do more like office hourstyle.
So if anyone guest hasquestions or wants to go through
their own process, they'll comearound and we'll do things.
But I love that and it's veryvaluable because you get to
actually see how a particularphotographer work they're
working on, where they are, howyou can help them.
But I think that the communityelement of like let's do this
together and let's learn fromone another, that you often find

(12:29):
in maybe a more formal academicsetting, I think that would be
a wonderful thing to bring in,even like a night of critiques,
because I always found that tobe a powerful place of learning
if it's done in a constructiveway.

Speaker 1 (12:43):
What are some of the more common trends or common
surprises?
Maybe guests realize, upongoing through their images with
you, like what, what are theytaking away from it?
That you may be, or they may bea little bit surprised about?
Like oh, I didn't.
I never really thought aboutthings this way.
Obviously, everything's verysubjective, but wondering if
there's any specific storiesthat stand out, or even just

(13:06):
trends throughout the years,where this is where guests seem
to have the biggest learningmoments while doing that
exercise.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
That's a really great question.
I think what I'm seeing, or atleast where my mind is as an
instructor, is takingphotographers from the okay,
taking a great image like onepowerful, great image.
And how can we, instead of justhaving one image, how can we
use a collection of images totell stories and to say more and

(13:35):
to show more of artistic voiceand style, and so helping
photographers to kind of seebeyond any one image and see
themselves as artists throughthat process?
And I think, because I'mfocused on that, that's
something I share frequently.
And so seeing students now likethey'll come with an image or
two that are really great andthen a few days later they'll

(13:58):
come with more of a body of workand say, oh, this image
connects to this one, andthrough these two images I'm
able to say these things, andthat's really nice because they
start to see themselves asstorytellers more than simply
photographers, and I think bothare profoundly valuable.
But understanding that there'sso many deeper layers that we
can take this art form towardsis quite lovely.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
Love that.
Julia.
What is the Julia Ciampiniphoto style and why?

(14:41):
Maybe not necessarily why, butwhat is your photo style?
I mean, I think that that'ssomething that I'm personally
quite obsessed isn't the rightword, but I'm just so intrigued
because every photographer hastheir own style.
There's infinite styles and itis something that I really
advise my guests, my listeners,my people to kind of define and
try to pick early on.
I just noticed my stylepersonally changing over the
years and wishing I would havebeen a little more deliberate
and intentional about pickingthat style early on and sticking
with it.
But at the same time, there arenew advances in Photoshop, new

(15:03):
advances in cameras, so changingis okay.
But yeah, how do you feel aboutthat in terms of you know,
should we pick a style?
Do you have an innate style?
Is there something you'veprocured or developed with that
style?
And yeah, tell me all about it.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
That's interesting.
I feel like you reflecting onyour style, changing is a
beautiful thing because it'sgoing to evolve with you as an
artist, right.
And so who you were 20 yearsago, 15 years ago, 10 years ago,
even last year or two weeks ago, is going to change.
And so, because yourphotographs are a reflection of
who you are, they're inevitablygoing to change.

(15:38):
There's no way to keep a styleconsistent, I think, but I think
what you value, what you'redrawn to, what you are inspired
by, stays a little bit moreconsistent.
I find it very hard to kind ofpin down my own style,
especially because, like thethings that I photographed in my
life have changed so much, from, you know, weddings and

(16:00):
families, to jujitsu, towildlife, to birds, to whatever,
like documentary work, tobranding work.
I've done a full range, butthere are threads that kind of
run through all of the differenttype of work that I do, just as
a strange story.
I also find this fascinating,this concept of style, and I

(16:21):
find it interesting to look at aphotographer and see what about
their personality is reflectedin their work, and so trying to
understand who they are and howtheir work reflects.
That is fascinating.
And so there was a weddingphotography couple and the
husband was just this like veryintroverted, deeply
introspective man and the wifewas just this loud, extroverted,

(16:44):
wonderful energy kind of womanand they worked together as a
photography couple, so they'dshoot weddings together and her
images were loud and they werecolorful and she put herself in
the middle of the dance floorand danced as she got her shots
and they were dynamic and fullof energy.
And then his were very soft andquiet and were cinematic
cinematic and you can feel howpensive and emotionally deep his

(17:08):
images were.
And so they both had theirstyles, reflecting their
personalities, but together theycreated these beautiful albums
that kind of spanned the depth,like span the range.
They're more holistic as aresult of who they were.
I I know.
For me I really appreciateimages that are maybe
emotionally more evocative.

(17:29):
I like dynamic images, a lot ofmovement, a lot of feeling.
I love when a photographer canlike almost take your hand and
pull you into the scene withthem, like when you feel like
you're in the image with thephotographer.
But I do find defining my ownstyle challenging and I think
the reason like I can definesomeone else's style easily, but

(17:51):
I think the reason I find itdifficult to kind of come to my
own is when you're looking atsomeone else's, you're
objectively looking at theproducts of their artistic
process, so you're just lookingat the outcome.
But when you look at your own,you have your subjective process
in place and so you're lookingat both your subjective thing

(18:13):
and the outcome, and it's harderto kind of swim through that
and get to.
My style is A, b, c or D, ormaybe I don't know.
Yeah, that's an interestingquestion.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
I'm floored by some of your responses because it
combines the science and theartistry in a way that I've not
heard anybody or any otherphotographer speak about it.
It's really fascinating, andthis idea the pragmatic idea of
your photo style reflects yourown personality is something so
simple and obvious, butsomething that I don't think

(18:45):
anybody is thinking about.
I know I'm not thinking aboutit.
The average guest that I'm withon a trip or every person out
there that I come acrossphotographing alongside, yeah,
but now that I'm just runningthrough some of my stylistic
changes in the last few yearsand just changes in my own world
, outlook and everything, andthere's e eerie parallels, so
you've hit on something reallyfascinating there.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
So, yeah, go ahead yeah, if you think of, like van
gogh in his blue period and howhis art really, like, reflected
his emotional state during thattime and changed from another
style.
Or there was this in a totallydifferent realm there was an
artist who would draw portraitsof himself every year, and

(19:29):
there's actually two projectslike this, but one where the man
he would draw portraits ofhimself but then he went through
dementia and the way theportraits changed as he was
going through dementia wasremarkable.
And so so often our art isreflecting us and so identifying
style and identifying thesethings is like getting a really

(19:51):
clear sense of who you are andhow you express that through
your art.
Yeah, but it's fascinating.
I think you're an interestingperson to talk to for many
reasons, but I think it's morerare to find people that are
scientific, like, have a sciencebackground and do these arts

(20:11):
and so you're coming at itthrough your right brain and
your left brain and that'salways fascinating because not
everyone will take it in thatway.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
So that's why my head feels like a washing machine.
Sometimes it's this mixture ofthe yin and yang like a washing
machine.
Sometimes it's this mixture ofthe yin and yang.
Got it noted, okay.
So, julia, I want to go back tostyle on a little bit more of
like a empirical sense.
Like I do want to hear how youdefine your own style, not so
much in like the style of likehow do you approach a photograph

(20:40):
, or what do you look for, orwhat photos aren't you taking
versus those that you takeoodles of more like your
finished product.
Simple in using kind of strongdifferences of light and dark,
or going to the opposite end ofjust extremely even lighting.

(21:10):
So, like I kind of like to playboth sides.
I'm just wondering if you couldagain kind of observe your own
photographs.
How would you describe them interms of the colors, the light,
the you know, all those kind ofmore digital nuances that, of
course, all come together inthis beautifully artistic vision
?
But yeah, just kind of like theraw components of your style.

(21:32):
I'm just very curious to hearhow you describe that.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
This is such a complex question for me.
I'll give you the reason.
For example, in Panama andColombia, I would say I'm so
drawn to bright and colorful andloud and expressive movement is
a big thing and color is suchan important part of that.
But then you go to the Arctic,right, you go to Svalbard and
color it doesn't exist in thatsame way.

(21:56):
And so you still may play withthe color palette and you still
may play with the meaning behindeach color and kind of pulling
together that way, but color isnot the same behind each color.
And then kind of pullingtogether that way, but color is
not the same, and so it likewhere I am has dictated how I'm
shooting in some ways, but Iwould say a thread that runs
through is maybe like okay,maybe stylistically I'm more

(22:19):
drawn to using longer lenses, soI love that like compressed and
intimate feel through thelonger lenses.
I would find my images tend tobe drawn to details more than
any kind of extreme-wideperspectives.
I really am drawn to detail andmoment.
Light is such a huge componentand any time that I can play

(22:39):
with light in a creative way, orcolor in a creative way, that's
going to be at the forefront orcolor in a creative way that's
going to be at the forefront.
Beyond that, I think it'spretty like I go through my
portfolio and sometimes I findit very hard to create cohesive
bodies of work because but thenI've had people say like
stylistically, these are yourphotographs.
Like I could tell they're fromyou based on how you see, so

(23:02):
maybe it's just the way I'mstruggling with doing that for
myself.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
Well, we're going to come back to more on this,
because I want to hear a littlebit more about, like kind of
your editing Photoshop style andworkflow or I shouldn't use the
word style anymore, we're pastthat but your Photoshopping
techniques.
But yeah, you know my takeawayfrom that observing you observe
your own style.
I think you are.
You're kind of explaining howyou are adaptable to your

(23:27):
environment.
You're infinitely adaptablelike a good biologist.
So kudos to that.
That's fantastic.
I want to kind of come back tosomething you said before well a
few times, which is a big partof your career and your life,
which is kind of like lifestylephotography, portraits, weddings
.
It sounded like you saidjujitsu.
I have to say I just didjujitsu for the first time in my

(23:47):
life the other day and like mywrist is aching, my throat is
still like bruised from gettingchoked out.
Yeah, I don't know if it's forme, but I might stick with it or
yeah, who knows.
Anyway, that's an aside, do youdo jujitsu?

Speaker 2 (24:02):
I do and like for the first.
I haven't done it since COVID,but I was doing it very
regularly and I'd come home andlike my body would be bruised.
Everyone thought maybe not thegreatest thoughts, but it was
all from jujitsu and I thinkit's one of the best sports in
the world and I stick with it.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
It is amazing.
It's so funny because, like youknow, I went into this hearing
from friends that do it and youknow talking about how it's this
wonderfully cerebral thing andyou know I'm going into it being
like you know, it does soundkind of like a puzzle and we're
totally going off to script.
Here we're, we're deviatingfrom photography, but we're
going to come back very soon.
Folks, we just need to talkabout getting beat up.
But but yeah, like I guess itjust didn't occur to me that you
were like fully trying tobasically beat the other person
up no striking, but like you'regoing to take them down.
And yeah, I was not expectingthat, but nevertheless, like you

(24:56):
know, I'm just going in on likea Tuesday before work like,
yeah, I'm just gonna go get agood sweat on it's like.

Speaker 2 (24:59):
No, I just got like thrown to the mat, tossed around
, choked out, like okay, liketell me that will help you in
every single aspect of your life, because if you can keep your
cool in that situation, you cankeep your cool in any situation
and and it is so much thatcreative problem solving it I
think you would love, like keepgoing to get beaten up.
Enjoy it, it's, it's fantastictouche.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
No, that's I like that.
Yeah.
Yeah, when you do hard things,it does make the unavoidable
hard things in your life thatmuch more tolerable and
sometimes even enjoyable.
So, yeah, touche, but anyway,where I was going with that, as
you said, you photographedjujitsu and I just going to ask
kind of a I'll be quick withthis question because I feel
like I've lost half my audienceat this point.
But what lessons do you takebetween the worlds of

(25:45):
photographing landscapes andwildlife and travel that part of
your career and the portraitwedding photographer either
direction or both directions orjust one Like?
What lessons have you learnedfrom the field that gets you
into portrait photography andvice versa?

Speaker 2 (26:01):
That's really great.
With portrait photography itcan get boring relatively
quickly in the sense that if youtreat every client like they're
the same person and you'redoing the same thing over and
over again, you've kind ofmissed the point.
So with portrait photography itwas like how can I get to know
this family and how is thisfamily unique compared to this
one or this one day special?

(26:21):
And I definitely will use thatsame kind of thought process
anytime I'm traveling.
What makes this particularplace special?
And how can I photograph theessence of this place compared
to that place?
Compared to that place, how canI pull out what's wonderful
about it from it?
And the same with wildlife.
I think in portrait photographyand wildlife photography and in

(26:47):
travel photography, it's youbeing very attentive to your
surrounding and you being ableto connect with your subject in
various ways.
And so as you travel, a lot ofit comes from who you like.
I think a lot of photographycomes from who you are as a
person, and so if I'mphotographing a person I'm doing
a wedding with, versus I'mphotographing like a travel

(27:09):
portrait in some far-off placeof the world where I don't know
maybe someone or the language orany of that.
I think there's like agentleness in the way that you
can approach things that makespeople feel comfortable and
makes people allow you into theworld, and then you can kind of
cut around a lot of the masksand pretenses and the things

(27:31):
that can be barriers.
So I think the approach is verysimilar, just the subject
matter changes.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
What would the Julia of today tell the Julia just
starting out in her photographicjourney?

Speaker 2 (27:44):
This question may be rather sentimental, because in
my 20s I felt quite lost.
I knew I loved biology andeducation and photography, but I
didn't know of a way to kind ofcombine them all.
I mean, it wasn't until Istarted doing this kind of work
that it all came together.
So I think back to that like20-year-old self and if I could
tell her any one thing is thingswill happen if you make them

(28:07):
happen, but if you embracerejection and make rejection a
metric of success.
So how much did you putyourself out there?
How much did you apply for?
How much did you push to grow?
What are you doing?
It doesn't matter if you getrejected.
It doesn't matter if you submitsomething for publication or
you apply for a job.

(28:27):
None of that matters.
What matters is that you'reputting the effort towards your
goals.
And I think, yeah, usingrejection as a metric of success
.
And also, if I can go back intime, I would read this book
Mindset by Carol Dueck.
It was one of the best books Iread, but I read it quite late
in life.
Do you also have it?

Speaker 1 (28:48):
Yeah, I was going through your book.
Here we go.

Speaker 2 (28:51):
Also a great book.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
We'll just put this right on top here for the camera
.
Yeah, it's a good one.

Speaker 2 (28:57):
I was going through your book list I'm like, okay,
that one's a great one, thatone's a great one.
Yeah, that one was a, really, Ithink, where I was.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
It was a profoundly meaningful book for me.
Fantastic.
So you've touched on severaltimes, including in this most
recent question, theintersection of photography and
conservation.
How do you use photography as aconservation tool and you know?
What advice do you have forothers that are keen to do the
same?
We know that there are.
We know where the options arefor photography for the most
part, but are there any optionsthat people may not be thinking

(29:29):
about as obvious places, or arethere certain areas that are
more important than others, thatare just being underutilized?

Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yeah, see, I wanted to ask you this question when
you sent me the list ofquestions and you gave me this
question.
I wanted to ask you becauseyou're more in this realm of
conservation work and I thinkit's such extremely valuable
work to be done.
Right now I work with anorganization called the Canadian
Collective of ConservationPhotographers and they're some

(30:00):
brilliant photographers and theydo a lot of campaigns related
to wildlife of Canada and also,I find, with myself.
I intentionally chosen to workwith organizations like NADHAB
or Lindblad that haveconservation at a forefront and
so like interacting with guestsbut helping them connect to
nature and helping them see whyit is an important thing to care

(30:24):
for, and that is at theforefront of my guiding.
But what I would love to do withmy own self and my own work is
when I am at home I'd love totell more conservation stories,
and so I'd love to be able tolike work with particular
organizations and bring thatskill set to them.
I just haven't had a chance tokind of figure that component

(30:45):
out, but like if you can alignyourself with organizations
whose values mirror your own andyou can support them with your
creative voice and creative giftoftentimes the images can help
promote change, and I think onething that I do that is fairly
important, unique in the worldof wildlife photographers is I

(31:05):
do have such a background inportrait photography and there's
this study about like imagesthat are impactful for
conservation photography andthey looked at.
Yes, beautiful images ofwildlife and beautiful images of
ecosystems are important, butif you can show the human
connection to these places, ifyou can show how humans are
interacting and helping andshowcase more of those stories,

(31:28):
you have this vehicle that yourviewer can now connect to the
human part of it and then theycan get more involved, and so I
think that's there's somethingin that.

Speaker 1 (31:38):
There are so many ways to do this, and part of the
reason I ask this with almostevery guest is that I'm just
curious what the other optionsare out there, like I kind of
know what you know, submittingthem to conservation
organizations and magazines andnewsletters, and you know you
can do your own storytelling onsocial media and putting in some
conservation tidbits you'velearned from the trip while

(31:59):
you're taking the photograph.
But you hit on something herethat is really quite interesting
and it's telling the deeperstory and I think that that is
one thing.
If people wish to intersectconservation and photography and
do sort of more powerful way,starting with their next
photographic outing yeah, it'sto you know maybe sacrifice the

(32:23):
classic portrait of the lion,that you know, frankly,
everybody has in.
You know you're going to seedozens of lions and, of course,
of an African safari.
So maybe that one time yousacrifice that classic portrait
and instead you photograph thereaction of your guide as he or
she is looking at it and kind oftelling the story.
Instead you put your ultra wideangle lens on and photograph

(32:45):
the entire vehicle witheverybody in it enamored and
obsessed with this photo andtelling that behind the scenes
story.
I think that that's somethingthat it's really hard for people
to do, because you've spent alot of time getting there and
paid a lot of money to get thereand you want that photo.
You have this expectation inyour mind of like the perfect
lion portrait.
Maybe you didn't get it so farand maybe you don't know if

(33:07):
you're going to see a lion againjust using examples of some
rando animal here.
But it's hard to get people topull away, and that's definitely
something I've learned over thelast few years, because so much
of how I use my photographytoday is in telling the story of
travel and this happens to beconservation travel and so
oftentimes, when I'm in front ofthe most extraordinary sighting

(33:34):
, I switch my lens out fromtelephoto to a wide angle and
photograph the photographers orphotograph the observers or, you
know, photograph what theentire scene looked like, like a
wildlife in landscape shot.
And the other thing that I'llsay is that you know, when
people are faced with thisquestion, it's it is always a
quality versus quantity thing.
You can have really, reallyextraordinary photographs and
you won't need to search veryhard or you won't need to put

(33:56):
them in a lot of places for themto have, you know, a certain
amount of impact, but thatsometimes can be a lifetime of
work.
Sometimes that can be having tobe a pro photographer or someone
that travels 250 days a year,like you do.
But for other people, sometimes, you know, if you don't have
those photos that are trulyotherworldly in terms of their

(34:19):
quality, you know one of a kind,truly one of a kind.
You know it is a quantity thing, it's.
You know how can you take those50 photos that you selected as
the best of the best from yourtrip and post them every day on
social media with a conservationtidbit, or, you know, not every
day, but every week, whateveryou think, and then it turns
into a quantity thing.
So, yeah, I don't.
I certainly don't have theanswer.

(34:40):
I think it's.
It's trial and error, I thinkit's learning from others and
experimenting, and a lot of it'sfinding your own path through
right.
But hence why I ask each andevery person that question.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
I would like to get better at it as well I feel like
so much of this is bushwhacking, yeah, like, because it's an
individual process.
You're you're in the field andyou're just hacking your own way
forward and other people aredoing similar and you're
figuring it out as you go.
But I I think you hit on a lotof like really important things
there.

(35:11):
For example, like with polarbear season, it is so phenomenal
to be able to photograph like abeautiful polar bear in their
environment.
But then the reactions of theirguests a guest who has been
waiting to see that polar bearfor their entire life and has
done so much to get to this tripand like to take one second and
look at the tears that arestreaming down their face

(35:32):
because it's been such a movingexperience for them If they're
more connected, if you can showhow connected, like I think a
lot of our issues that existright now is because we are
disconnected from nature, and Ithink one of the powerful tools
we have as a photographer isreally helping people connect to
the natural world, and I thinkone of the powerful tools we
have as a photographer is reallyhelping people connect to the
natural world, and so I find,even when I'm guiding, if

(35:52):
there's this one-of-a-kindexperience where a bear is
coming up to the rover and beingwith us.
I try to be as quiet as possibleso that each person can really
engage and be present andconnect to that experience.
Because if I describe thebear's behavior in the moment,
that experience, because they'relike if I described the bear's
behavior in the moment, that'sgreat and that's wonderful, but

(36:13):
I'm taking them out of thatmoment.
So how can we do all ourphotography stuff before and
after and allow the people toconnect with their experience?
And I think that's a part of itthat I'm like there's a nuance
there that I'm figuring outslowly as a guide.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
So I know I have hopefully have a lot of young
aspiring photographers in theaudience, and what is a lesson
that you would like to teachaspiring nature and wildlife
photographers?

Speaker 2 (36:38):
This is a strange example, but one of my first
contracts with Lynn Vlad.
I sat beside the editor ofNational Geographic Travel the
editor of National GeographicTravel, and he was there as an
expert and to be part of thetrip as a cultural expert.
And we were sitting for dinnerand it was my very first trip
and he was saying like and thisman is like published all kinds,

(37:01):
he's a brilliant writer, he'swritten so many books, he's the
editor of National GeographicTravel, he's like right up there
and he said like I don't knowwhy they've chosen me to do this
thing.
And so he was feeling that likesense of imposter syndrome.
And I think, if I were to talkto any young photographer, it's
like you are going to encounterso many things in your journey

(37:24):
throughout your life.
You're going to encounter likeimposter syndrome and doubt and
anxiety and you're going to feeloverwhelmed and you're going to
have all these experiences.
But these are human problems.
They're not you specificproblems, especially if you're
going into that like moreartistic side.
These are just human problemsand so you'll feel them
regularly.
They don't go away, but thegreat thing is they're not you

(37:46):
problems and so it is very mucha sign that you're doing
something, pushing past yourboundaries, and that's a great
thing.
And so, as you go through thisjourney, you're going to
encounter a lot of success and alot of failure, and that's all
part of it, and it's exciting.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
That's beautiful.
I love that.
Okay, last question here,before we get into talking about
gear, which I always love tonerd out on, and I know you're a
fellow Canon user and, forwhatever reason, I don't
encounter a ton of those thesedays, although they are
extraordinary platform that I'mstill very happy with.
But before that, how do youapproach post processing?
And I'm going to keep that kindof ambiguous, because you can

(38:26):
about however you'd like, ifit's more of a stylistic thing
or more of a workflow thing,yeah, how do you approach it?

Speaker 2 (38:34):
Yeah, really great.
I love post-processing.
I think it's like as a strangeItalian analogy when you're
shooting, you're collecting goodingredients.
When you're post-processing youget to make the meal, and the
better your ingredient it's, thebetter your meal.
So while you're shooting,you're getting the most
beautiful file you can.
You know, solid exposure,perfect focus, whatever it is
that you're looking for, gettingit right in camera.

(38:56):
And then you get to go home andreally enjoy the process of
editing.
And for me, I'll put on a fire,I'll put on a murder mystery or
a documentary and just likespend an evening working with my
images.
One thing that has helped mequite a bit is rating the images
in camera beforehand so thatwhen I throw my images into

(39:16):
Lightroom I can just immediatelyselect for my ones or my threes
.
I'll rate them like a decentimage is one and a three is kind
of a more outstanding image,one I want to spend more time
with, and I just pull all theimages into Lightroom and then I
can just immediately select forthose images and kind of ignore
all the rest.

Speaker 1 (39:36):
And the data is there in the photo itself.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
Yeah, so like, what you rate on your camera will
translate right into Lightroom.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
Interesting.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
Fantastic.
Yeah, it saves me fromoverwhelm, though you do still
have to like download everything.
But there might be a way todownload just your ones or just
your threes.
Like for the editing itself, Ido find I like to keep things as
timeless as possible, so I'venever been one.
For you know trends Withwedding photography.

(40:03):
You'd find like every yearthere was a new trend and you
could tell immediately when theimage was taken.
Like I'd rather my images, kindof like you don't know what
year they were taken, it's justa decent photograph of this
thing.
But it'll be like minorcorrections, white balance, spot
removal, kind of making a rawfile a little bit more punchy.
And then what I would like tospend a lot more time doing is

(40:28):
kind of curating my images downto the best and then making
cohesive bodies of work,cohesive stories or cohesive
bodies.
I think that's where my brainis at lately, but really taking
my time with the editing process.
It's fun, it's really joyful.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
And so part of your organization is not just having
the, you know Churchill 2024album, but you're actually
pulling out photos and creatingbodies of work that might be
Arctic landscapes or bears infall.
Is that what you mean?

Speaker 2 (40:58):
Yeah.
So it's interesting because Ithink about, like, what is the
purpose of an image?
So is it going to live on mywebsite?
Is it going to go to socialmedia?
Is it going to do any of thesethings?
And one of the things that Ihave on the back of the mind is
this just like you have toupdate your website.
It's been two years, you'vedone 50 trips.
You haven't updated yourwebsite in a very, very long

(41:19):
time.
Update your website.
And so I'm trying to think of,like, what type of work do I
want to do in the future andwhat kind of work do I have that
reflects that work that I wantto do in the future, and then
create work based on that.
And so things like Arctictravel, for example, I'm doing a
lot more travel in the northand so, like I'd love to get up

(41:40):
to do the Northwest Passage orthe High Canadian Arctic, and so
can I pull together all myimages from Svalbard and
Northern Canada, churchill, allthese different Arctic kind of
ecosystems, and pull thattogether in a cohesive body,
which is not easy.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
How do you decide what photos get that elevated
status?

Speaker 2 (42:03):
I think part of it is instinctual, part of it is like
there's something about thisphotograph that feels magical in
some way.
But, like you and I were justdiscussing a few days ago with
the photography contest atNADHAB, what makes a great image
?
A great image and you have tolike it has to be technically
sound, there has to be somethought of composition and some

(42:25):
arrangement that thephotographer has made to create
a good image, and then there'sthat artistic quality and voice,
and so there's all thesedifferent components you kind of
go through, but sometimes I'lljust like sit with two images
side by side if I'm debating andjust like on instinct what one
feels more harmonious or is morealigned with what I want to say

(42:49):
.

Speaker 1 (42:50):
Okay, so time to move on to nerdy gear talk, my
favorite segment Julia.
Julia, what are you shooting on?

Speaker 2 (42:58):
Right now at Canon R5 , and then I just just just
bought a Canon R5 Mark II.

Speaker 1 (43:04):
Have you played with it?
Any initial feedback of theMark II?

Speaker 2 (43:15):
I bought it just before polar bear season.
Got it the day before I leftpolar bear season.
Have you played with it?
Any initial feedback of theMark II?
What I feel is a bigimprovement on the R5 is the way
in which they allow you to getto your video.
It's much more seamless, likeyou can be shooting, shooting,
shooting and then veryseamlessly move to taking video.

(43:35):
So this past fall of our season, I did, I would say, more video
than I did photography, whichis quite new for me.

Speaker 1 (43:41):
Any other standout features of the Mark II versus
the first one?

Speaker 2 (43:45):
Not just yet, but it is like a high frame.

Speaker 1 (43:48):
Better ISO, that sort of stuff.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
Just a very nice camera Higher frames per second
if you go to your burst mode.
It's a beautiful, beautifulcamera to use.
It's similar with the other,but I find also the focus seems
to latch on, to focus a littlebit better, which is quite nice.
But I still have to spend somereal time with that camera.

(44:11):
I was listening to a masterclass with Paul Nicklin and he
was saying put your camera in adark room with you, close your
eyes and be able to change yoursettings based on how well you
know your camera.
And I haven't done that yetwith this one.
But I think it's a valuablething to do, especially for
northern light season, when it'sdark and you can't can't see

(44:33):
anything fully agree with that.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
So I was going to ask what your favorite lens is for
wildlife photography.
But I we were talking before westarted recording and you said
you have gotten some, some newgears, maybe some new lenses.
So yeah, talk to me maybe aboutlike your suite of favorite
lenses right now.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
As a favorite all-time lens, I think my 70-200
.
I just love that 2.8.
It's a beautiful, beautifullens For wildlife, though I find
often wildlife is quite far.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
It's just not enough, and so having that little bit,
it's just not enough.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
So before shooting with 100 to 500 and I just
recently got the 200 to 800, 6,3 to 9.
I haven't it's still in the box.
It's in the box right behind me.
I got it for my birthday andI'm excited to use it.
I'll be in Panama and CostaRica in a few days and so I'm
excited to get it out and playwith it there, particularly for

(45:31):
birds and wildlife.
I'm very much in the moment oflike reconsidering the wide
aspect of my kit, because I lookat other photographers' work
and I really appreciate howcertain photographers utilize
their wide angle and think inthat way, and I've not been as
effective in that way.
So I'd like to like forcemyself to play in those focal

(45:52):
lengths to kind of get therebetter.
How are you?
What's your kit like?

Speaker 1 (45:57):
Yeah, so it's pretty similar.
I recently picked up the 7200that I had sold a long time ago
and I kind of regretted it andit's you know I tried to go
minimalist and I got back intoit.
I honestly would rather havethat lens than the 100 to 500.
I do like the one to five likeit's.
It's super sharp, it's you knowthe range is incredible.

(46:18):
I'm just a stickler foraperture, like I.
Just I really don't likeshooting at 7.1 unless I intend
to and frankly, a 7.1 apertureon a lens that is the maximum
aperture doesn't look like ifyou're doing on 7.1 where you're
shooting on like an F4, f2.8.
So, yeah, I like it.

(46:39):
Honestly, I'm very muchcoveting the 100-300mm f2.8.
I knew exactly where I'm goingto make the incision to cut my
kidney out in order to get thatlens.
I'm going to go just the sideof the abdomen, it's a very
expensive lens.
It's hard to justify because 300isn't that much more than 200,

(47:00):
but you know it is yeah.
And then you know I did pick upthe Canon 15 to 35 within the
last year and it's awesome I itis crazy sharp.
It's an expensive lens as well,but compared to my 24 105 it is
a really really sharp lens.
You know the 2.8 yeah, yeah itis 2.8 yeah.

(47:21):
Yeah, I mean, it's like theperfect night aurora lens.
I think I did shoot the aurorawith it.
You know, the thing with ultrawides is people often think an
ultra wide is great forlandscapes and it's like, okay,
I'm going on a big landscapetrip Like I'm actually headed to
the Himalayas in the nextcouple of months on a personal
trip.
I'm like, do I bring that?
And the reality is like it'salmost the opposite.

(47:43):
The ultra wide is great forwhen things aren't big and
impressive and you need to makethem look like that.
But when you're in a bigscenery, you know, ultra wide,
just it.
It does the opposite of zoomcompression and it just makes
big, impressive things look verysmall.
So it's way more of like alifestyle travel lens, which I
do like it for, you know, takingphotos for catalogs and

(48:04):
magazines and all that.
It's a great lens to geteverything in the frame.
And then you know, can't dowithout my nifty 50.
Get everything in the frame andthen you know, can't do without
my nifty 50.
I love my nifty 50.
Canon just came out with anupgraded version of the little
50 millimeter 1.8.
That is inexpensive relative toa lot of these other things
just a couple hundred bucks, buttheir new f 1.4 version a

(48:27):
little bit more money, butprobably something.
Something I'm going topotentially consider Because I
love the 50 millimeter range.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
But honestly.

Speaker 1 (48:33):
I'm thinking of renting from LensRentalscom,
sponsor of this episode.
I'm thinking about rentingeither the 100-300 or the get
this, the 400 F2.8, for my nextBorneo trip.
I've never had a 400-28.
Then I have to take bothkidneys and I don't know how

(48:54):
long I'll be able to lastwithout both of them.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
but you know when you , when you rent it, it's
definitely not as hurtfulhonestly, that sounds like a
brilliant idea, and you'll haveso much fun with that in your
hands, like it it's just wildwhen you start to count the
amount.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
You know how much more light you have compared to
a f7.1, f8, f9, it's just like.
You know.
Okay, you know from from f8 tof5, that's twice as much.
F5 to f4, that's four times asmuch.
You know f4 to 2.8, you know,do the math like you're.
Just, you have like eight timesthe light.

(49:30):
You know it's a big piece ofglass, but anyway, yeah, any any
other lenses that you've playedaround with from the canon
lineup, or really any lineupthat you, it's worth canon's
been my, my go-to and, likebefore, I did wildlife
photography, I was shooting onlike my what okay?

Speaker 2 (49:48):
canon 5d mark 2, mark 3, mark 4, and I Canon 5D Mark
II, mark III, mark IV, and I hadlike a variety of prime lenses.
A lot of wedding work was a lotof prime work, and I'm just
trying to like justify the roomin my bag, because that's what I
find very challenging is, ifyou're traveling with everything
that you need on your back andthis past year I ended up
traveling to like 12 differentprograms back to back and I'd go

(50:13):
from, like Svalbard toGalapagos, and so I needed
everything for both trips in onebag, plus camera gear and so
how do you make that make sense?
You can't, and so you have tokeep your kit as small as
possible, or your clothing assmall as possible, which it ends
up being your clothing.
You keep as small as possible,which it ends up being your
clothing.

(50:33):
They keep as small as possible,but it's challenging.
The whole packing in travelphotography is tricky.

Speaker 1 (50:37):
Do you ever use Canon's 85mm f1.2 prime?
I love that lens.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
That was in my like portrait wedding, heavy, heavy
days.
That was my favorite lens.
What I have found is, typicallyI'll shoot with two bodies and
I'll have like more of the focallengths covered.
So in my wedding days I mighthave, like I don't know, a 24 to
70 or like a 70 to 200 on onebody and then an 85 or a hundred

(51:04):
on the other, and so you'regetting different looks and
feels with the different lensesyou have.
And I'm finding with this newpurchase of the Mark II, I'm
able to shoot again with twobodies and I love that.
It makes me feel like I'm backand like you can tell more of
the story in the immediatemoment.
So when you were talking aboutlike taking a moment to step

(51:25):
away from the lion and thencatch that shot, being able to
not have to change lenses is sohelpful.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
It's a game changer.
I've I've gotten down to onebody, just kind of like you were
saying, to be a minimalist andto fit in suitcases and not
having to compromise lenses, butoh, to have a second camera
body.
It really is.
You truly double your shots.
I mean, you end up gettingtwice as many photos, twice as
much diversity.

Speaker 2 (51:49):
It's, yeah, it's a great one I've been thinking a
lot of like if you're in thefield for eight hours but the
only shot you're taking is thesame shot over and, over and
over again.
You're basically in the fieldfor five minutes, right, so you
can, if you can, come up anysituation and really expand that
breadth and that range, you'regetting more from it, you get a
richer experience as a result.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
But yeah, so you travel lot.
We've heard this and I knowthis personally.
What packing or prepping advicedo you have for photographers
out there?
And this may be photographiccentric, you know, gear centric,
or it might just be somethingthat alleviates the rest of it
so you can concentrate more ongear.
But, yeah, what's what's likesome of your best tips or tip on

(52:29):
that?

Speaker 2 (52:30):
Yeah, this is such a great question because each time
I go I try to refine and refineand refine.
So something like a bag that Ihave behind me.
It's a bag that is on wheelsbut it also has straps.
What I found is in the airports, planes will be overbooked and
they'll always ask you if youhave a bag on wheels to check
that bag, and I can't check inmy camera gear.

(52:51):
So having a bag where I canquickly throw it on my back and
people don't know that it's abig camera bag has helped save
me in that moment.
Things as simply as likeseparating batteries from the
rest of your camera gear I findI'm always, always stopped in
security because the batteriesare so dense and they can't be
scanned, so they need to like gothrough them again.

(53:13):
So putting all my batteries inone space, I can very quickly
remove those, and that's beenhelpful.
Having charging ports thatcharge more than one battery at
a time On the ship I usually getlike one charger and you're in
the field for however many hoursyour one battery won't last.
So having something like thiswith three ports, I can get

(53:34):
through a lot of batteries.

Speaker 1 (53:35):
I'm going to jump in here and second that statement.
That's been a huge game changerfor me.
So for those listeners outthere that don't yet have a
battery charger that can chargetwo or three batteries at a time
, it is so worth the investment.
It seems like a small thing,but when you can pop on all
batteries overnight and wake upin the morning with your entire
suite of batteries charged andfresh and ready, it just takes

(53:57):
so much worry, takes so muchrisk out of the situation.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
It's yeah, that's a huge one and something as simple
as like a little case like thiswhere I can throw in some
camera cards and then batteriesas well, that I can keep in my
jacket pocket.
So I don't have to go back tomy kit if I've run out of
batteries or if I need to changecards.
I just can immediately takewhat I need from my kit or like
from my pocket.
That's been helpful.

(54:20):
But I find like you don't needall the big lenses, you don't
need everything.
They tell amazing photographicstories, and so keeping the kit
tight is quite effective, but Iwill always sacrifice on clothes
, and so keeping the kit tightis quite effective, but I will
always sacrifice on clothes andI will always like it's
functional reform for me and I'mlike I'd rather have camera
gear than look nice.

(54:41):
So echo that just yeah, just theway it is.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
Okay.
So final question here, and youmay have already covered it in
what you just said, but maybeyou do have something else out
there that's lurking.
That's another great piece ofgear advice Do you have any
pieces of gear for naturephotography that are
surprisingly helpful that peoplemay not think about?

Speaker 2 (55:01):
And this wasn't at all photographic gear, but a
notebook and a pen.
Like every single time that I'min a field, I will learn a lot,
and it either like learningabout particular animal
behaviors, or you're learningsomething new with your camera
or you're thinking about whatyou would like to try in the
next situation.
So, very quickly, jotting thatdown in a small notebook little

(55:24):
field notebook is wonderful, butalso it's not so much a piece
of gear but it's a practice, andwhat I have found that has been
very meaningful for me is inall the circumstances where
you're kind of just in the field, waiting for something to
happen, waiting for wildlife,waiting for whatever, you have

(55:44):
all this downtime that you couldbe using to learn your camera
better and so using thatdowntime more effectively.
It's just like what I'll dowith guests, for example, in our
vehicles, when we're searchingfor bears.
We'll really go through ourcamera settings, we'll run
through things, we'll practicethings before the moment of

(56:05):
bears or after the moment ofbears, and so you're doing a lot
of that legwork then, and soit's not at all gear that you
bring into the field, but it'sthis practice of downtime is
still on time and you can usethat time very effectively.

Speaker 1 (56:18):
Excellent advice.
Well, julia, thank you so muchfor joining me today.
Where can people find youWebsite, social?
Where are you at?

Speaker 2 (56:25):
It's juliaciampinicom , but it's spelled strangely.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
I'll put that in the show notes, folks.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
And, but it's spelled strangely.
I'll put that in the show notes, folks.
And then my Instagram is atjuliaexpedition.
Yeah, and hello atjuliaciampdphotographycom.
But you can add that that wouldbe great.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
Excellent.
Well, Julia, I've learned a lot.
I know folks in the audiencehave learned a lot.
Thank you so much for sharingyour wisdom, your insight, your
artistry.

Speaker 2 (56:55):
Lots to take away from this one, and great to
speak with you, as always.
Can I also thank you?
I feel like I've put somethings together and you're
you're absolutely brilliant.

Speaker 1 (56:59):
And thank you very much for this.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
This was lovely Pleasure.

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