The Hidden Secrets of Pre-Production for Stunning Wildlife Films with Jake Willers

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In this episode of The Wild Photographer, host Court Whelan dives into the art and skill of wildlife photography. Jake Willers shares valuable insights into capturing animals in their natural habitat, discussing techniques to approach wildlife ethically and effectively. He emphasizes the importance of patience, respect for the environment, and understanding animal behavior, which can make the difference between a good shot and a great one.

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Listeners will gain a deeper understanding of camera settings, lighting, and compositional techniques that bring wildlife photographs to life. Jake also discusses the challenges and rewards of this unique field and offers practical advice for both aspiring and seasoned photographers aiming to refine their wildlife photography skills.

Expect to Learn:

• Essential camera settings for wildlife photography
• Techniques to approach animals without disturbing them
• How to use natural light effectively in outdoor settings
• Compositional tips to capture dynamic wildlife shots
• Ethical considerations and respect for wildlife in photography

This episode is kindly sponsored by:

LensRentals.com - be sure to use promo code WildPhotographer15 for a 15% discount.

My Full Camera Kit:

• Canon R5 Body
• Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8
• Canon RF 24-105mm f/4

• Check out Court’s photography and conservation work: CourtWhelan.com
• Follow Court Whelan (@courtwhelan) on YouTube for more photography tips
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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to the Wild Photographer with your host
, court Whalen.
We've got another great episodetoday, a unique one, with a BBC
Nat Geo star and filmmaker andproducer, jake Willers.
He is very firmly in the worldof videography today, but didn't
always start that way.
He started off with aphotographic background and I
think this is a really, reallyunique and helpful episode for

(00:21):
all of you in the audience tounderstand the similarities, the
differences and maybe some ofthe progression from photography
to videography.
We're going to give you a lotof tools for the video world.
We're going to learn about JakeWiller's approach to
storytelling, which translatesinto both photography and
videography.
We're going to talk about someof his past, present and future
projects that I think you'll bevery interested in learning

(00:42):
about.
As it pertains to your own work, your own vision.
We've got a lot packed intoday's episode, as always.
I want to give a quick shout outto lensrentalscom, sponsor of
the Wild Photographer podcast.
If you go onto their site andsee something you might want to
rent, which I, of course,advocate, for it's a great way
to learn and experience andunderstand different lenses out
there for not a lot of money.

(01:02):
You can use promo code WILphotographer 15 to get 15% off.
So that's pretty fantastic and,like I said, I really do think
it's a fantastic tool to trylenses before you buy them.
You can even buy them from lensrentals, but it's a low cost,
easy entryway to rent a lens fora few days to try it out, maybe
for a whole trip.
It's a really, really greatasset.
That's why I really enjoyhaving them as a sponsor of this

(01:25):
podcast, because I thinkthey're just darn useful.
So anyway, without further ado,I want to get into the podcast
itself.
Help me welcome Jake Willers,jake, welcome.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
Hi Court.
Hey, thanks for having me on.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
My pleasure, my pleasure.
Well, let's get right into it.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
So, jake Willers you are a renowned filmmaker, but it
all started with photography,am I right?
Photography came before the TV.

(02:02):
I would take pictures at thewildlife park.
So we would, you know, usephotos our library for kind of
marketing the wildlife park, youknow, keeping tabs on all of
the animals that we had in thereand that would come in and go
out, because in the early daysit was an animal sanctuary and
so we would have native wildlifebought into us that had been
saying a road traffic accident,and we would nurture them back

(02:25):
to health and release them andtake pictures and what have you.
And so I kind of got into.
I had one of those old zenith 35mil cameras way back in the day
I think I was probably about 16years old, so it was a long
time ago and also I did a atschool.
I did a darkroom course or justafter leaving school did a
darkroom course and really justafter leaving school did a
darkroom course and really justgot into kind of like doing some

(02:46):
architecture type photography.
But working at the wildlifepark was really where it was at,
taking pictures of animals.
And then when I got into TV, itturned into hosting for Nat Geo
and then getting a video cameraand going behind the lens of a
video camera, which then changedeverything for me, cause it's,
you know, it's, it's very, verysimilar, right, it's taking

(03:07):
pictures.
You're just taking 24 or 30 ofthem a second, so yeah, exactly
yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
So you knew pretty early on that film was the
direction that you wanted to go.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Yeah, well, again, this is.
This is an interesting one,because I never aspired to get
into TV or actually do video inthe early days.
What happened was I was kind ofdiscovered for want of a better
word at the wildlife park.
I had just curated an insecthouse called Waterworld and Bug
City at the wildlife park.

(03:40):
And we had a production companycome along and they wanted to do
some little newscast piecesthat they would put out to
different news channels.
And so they interviewed me withsome of the insects that I had
at the attraction would make agood host for a TV show.

(04:05):
Would that interest you?
And I'd never thought aboutdoing anything like that.
And I said, well, it does, butI don't know how I'd have the
time to do it.
And they said, no, we'll justcome and film a five minute
promo and we'll see where itgoes.
So I thought nothing more of it.
They filmed the promo, theywent off.
A few months later theycontacted me and said we have a
six part series with NationalGeographic Channel with you as
the host, and that bowled meover.
And there I was a few monthslater in Africa filming the

(04:26):
first of our series calledInsects from Hell.
And so I kind of fell into thevideography world, and getting
to see the behind the scenes ofhow natural history shows are
made just really inspired mefrom a storytelling perspective.
It gave me another way oflooking at how I could pass my

(04:49):
passion onto other people, whichis what we did at the wildlife
park.
You know we would do outreachprojects to schools and what
have you.
And so this was just anotherarea that I thought well, this
is a really powerful tool.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
Yeah, you're not the first person to that I've heard
this from.
Is that kind of moving toolyeah, you're not the first
person to that I've heard thisfrom.
Is that kind of moving?
You know, from photography intovideography is largely fueled
by this passion, this interestto get into deeper storytelling.
So the storytelling element, Iknow, is really near and dear to
your heart and that's somethingI want to talk a little bit
about here.
You know, storytelling for me isa fascinating subject when it

(05:22):
comes to photography,cinematography largely because I
honestly don't feel that I'mvery good at it.
I don't feel that I have asuper solid, innate, intuitive
grasp on it, something that I'mconsciously trying to learn from
and learn about.
I'm spending a lot of time anda lot of effort doing so, but I

(05:43):
think a lot of other folks outthere probably feel the same.
We all know what a story is.
We all know what storytellingis.
We can think of you knownursery rhymes.
We can think about cavemenaround a campfire.
We can think about even modernmedia social media, youtube and
documentaries as storytelling.
Talk to me a little bit aboutyour approach to storytelling.

(06:04):
I know that one of your maingoals as a cinematographer is to
help the scientific communitytranslate inspiring information
to the public, which I think isso darn important in today's day
and age.
How does storytelling work foryou in that context?
And you know, what advice mightyou have to someone like myself
that knows it's important,wants to do it, but feels that

(06:28):
they might need a little shot inthe arm to really accelerate
their journey towardsstorytelling?

Speaker 2 (06:34):
science and storytelling was when I became a
host for Nat Geo, wild andNational Geographic Channel.
We would interview many, manyscientists and film their
research and it really becameobvious that when we were doing

(06:54):
that research of their studies,there was nothing written in
kind of plain text.
It's all scientific talk, rightPapers.
You know how a paper's writtenright.
So it's, you know, to a layperson it's pretty difficult to
understand, and so it would betranslating that into lay speak
so that I could use that as aon-camera host to be able to

(07:16):
talk about their work.
And it just became increasinglymore obvious.
That was something that wasnecessary with everyone we met
and their science, and I found Iwas pretty good at being able
to understand most of the timeit was speaking, having an
interview with someone offcamera chatting with them about
what they did, and then be ableto translate that and just talk
about it in a more accessiblefashion.

(07:37):
And so that really excited me,because the more into filmmaking
I got, I realized there was somany incredible studies being
done, so much new informationcoming out that just needed an
outlet.
And you know, actually on mypodcast, one of my original I

(07:58):
think the first episode actuallyis Rick Rosenthal, who filmed
on planet earth one, and Ricksaid that you know he was a
scientist, a Marine biologist,and he wrote a bunch of papers
that he said he jested, but hesaid that 12 people read.
And then, you know, after hebecame a cinematographer, he
said over a billion people haveseen his TV shows, and so when

(08:20):
you look at it like that yousuddenly see the power of being
able to translate science to the.
You know the screen and, ofcourse, you know everyone does
that.
Now I mean conservation andnatural history.
Filmmaking is all about that.
For me, it's about findingreally I like to be passionate
about the species that I talkabout and that I film.

(08:41):
So first of all, it's about,you know, looking into the
things that really make me tick.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
When.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
I became a host.
I started off hosting showsabout insects because I had a
huge passion for insects.
I loved, you know, tellingpeople about them and kind of
dispelling the myths, thevilification of creepy crawlies.
That was really important to meand that led to multiple series
.
And then it led to me doingseries about other wildlife.

(09:08):
So we moved on to do rogueraiders, which was all about
human wildlife, conflict, wildevents, which was all about some
of the largest animalspectacles on the planet, and so
it really opened up for me.
So now really my process iswhen I find if I'm you know, the
stories come to me two ways.
One, I can go out looking for astory which can be quite hard

(09:30):
because you know, a lot of thetime it's hard to know where to
look.
It takes a lot of research, butoften it's the case that the
story comes to me, I'll hearsomething, someone will tell me
something, or I'll readsomething in scientific paper or
a new story, and and that willbe the trigger that says, okay,
this is something that could be,incredibly, you know, good to

(09:51):
make a show out of.
So then it's kind of findingthat hook.
You know storytelling is allabout hook and it's all about
acts.
I mean the same as a Hollywoodmovie is or a good novel.
It's all about an act structure.
So you have to find you knowyour characters, your
protagonist, you know the issuesthat they face, what are they
trying to overcome?

(10:12):
And then you know how do theyovercome that, what are the
solutions and the resolution tothe story.
So really, if you keep it verybasic like that, it can be
easier to kind of find theelements necessary for a good
story, and so that's kind of myprocess, and then I start doing
a lot of research into workingout you know how that's going to
translate to the screen,because not all of them can you

(10:35):
know.
I mean this day and age.
You know it's easier now thatwe have the ability to make two
minute films and distribute themRight, and they're not just
half hour or one hour.
I mean back in the day it was,all you know, really minimum of
24 minutes for a half hour show,and so you know you have to
have enough content to make thatshow worth watching, keeping

(10:56):
viewers, you know, keeping theireyeballs on it.
Now of course we can findreally interesting stories and
say you know what?
This is really cool, but it'sonly a three to five minute
story, but we still have theability to do that and put it on
people's websites and YouTubeand depending on who we're
making it for.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
Oh yeah, I mean I think that's the biggest boon
today is that it's almostencouraged to think of short
form because of the way thatsocial media works, because the
way that YouTube works and evenfilm festivals.
So it's really quiteinteresting that we now have
this ability to cheaply or atleast not as much money as back

(11:36):
in the day get your stuffpublished, your stories
published.
Let me kind of dig into some ofthe filmmaking the
cinematography aspect of thestorytelling so fully agree.
The act structure, thefilmmaking, the cinematography
aspect of the storytelling sofully agree.
You know the act structure, thecharacters.
I think that the more seriouslyyou take story structure, even
if it's for a three minuteYouTube video, the more
seriously you take that.
The more professional, thebetter it's going to be.

(11:58):
But let's say you have yourstory, you're going to go out in
the field and start shooting.
Obviously you need the bestshots possible.
You need the polar bear in slowmotion walking.
You need the bird taking flightwith full wings spread.
But what are some of yourthoughts going into a day of
filming?
That really helps get you whatyou need to complement the story

(12:22):
, because of course you knowthis is much more than sitting
around a campfire through oraltradition.
This is like, this isfilmmaking, this is visual.
So the visual element, eventhough it probably can't live on
its own, there has to be thatstory as well.
The visuals are super important.
So what are some of thethoughts going through your head
?
Like checklists?

(12:43):
Do you organize your shots intopriorities of what you need to
get, or do you let stuff come toyou and just make lemonade out
of everything possible?
Maybe just touch a little biton the actual pursuit of
capturing that stuff on film andhow you go about doing it.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
Yeah, absolutely the most important part of
filmmaking is pre-production.
Right, there's really threeareas.
There's pre-productionproduction, which we would be
the part of going out andfilming, and then
post-production, editing it andfinalizing it and putting out
there.
Pre-production by far is themost important part, because
without good pre-productionthere's really you're out there

(13:22):
hoping that you're going to getstuff rather than knowing now
obviously with wildlife.
It's like they say never filmwildlife and children right the
hardest things to get what youneed.
But you know, understandinganimal behavior and what's going
on and the specifics of thestory you're going out to film
gives you a very good idea ofwhat you need to get to tell the

(13:43):
story and what the you know thepercentage chance of you
getting it.
So I like to split it up and Ihave two shot lists that I carry
with me.
I have an essentials list and Ihave the ultimate list.
And so when I'm doing mypre-production, I have the
treatment ran out.
I understand the story.
I'm now looking at what are theimages?
I need to tell that story in away that's going to keep

(14:05):
eyeballs on it, because it's allabout retention, right?
You want people to continuethrough your story, and so I'll
create a list I call myessentials list which is like
this is the bare bones of what Ineed for that show to become a
reality, and without that list.
I can't make the show right, sothat one there is a reality.

(14:27):
And without that list I can'tmake the show Right, so that one
there is a must.
And then I have my ultimatelist and my ultimate list is
probably got about 30% moreshots in there and it's like,
well, if I added this and thisand you know all the incredible
stuff that is probablyimpossible to get, then it would
be fantastic.
But the reason I do that and Iactually teach people this

(14:48):
because a lot of the time if youmake one list, what tends to
happen is we look at the storyand we dream about how it's
going to look and thisincredible show we're going to
make.
If we go out with that list andwe don't get everything on that
list, we can start to think, ohmy gosh, this is what's
happening here.
We don't have enough to make it.
The point of kind of separatingthe essentials is well, no, this

(15:11):
is what I have to have.
So these are the shots.
I have to find the other stuff.
The dream list or the ultimatelist is the stuff that will make
it better.
But it's not all essential, butthe essentials list, you know
we really need thosefundamentals.
So I do it like that.
You know, sometimes it's onelist but they're highlighted as
the essentials, right?

(15:31):
So we know what we're getting.
The importance of having a shotlist is also, if you're working
with a team and you're notgathering all the footage, that
everyone is on the same page andknows what you need to get
right, because a lot of the time, if I'm doing it I mean I'll be
perfectly honest I don't have alist.
A lot of the time the list isin here, right, it's in my head.

(15:52):
It's not actually on paper, andthat's because I've done it for
so long now I know what I'mafter to tell the story and I
know if I'm getting it or not.
But it does depend on thelength of the project and how
many people are involved.
So once I have that list down,it's really then a case of
understanding an image, sequence, right Understanding and

(16:13):
actually this really goes beforethe image list is understanding
the big difference betweenphotography and videography.
Is a picture in photographyspeaks a thousand words, right?
The problem with a picture invideography only speaks about
one word, and so you need a lotof them to put them together to
speak a thousand words, right?

Speaker 1 (16:31):
Right.

Speaker 2 (16:32):
So what you have to do is you have to build a
sequence, and one of the thingsI actually teach a lot of
photographers who are looking totransition into video is to use
a tool I called the imagesequence breakdown tool, and
basically it's a tool I giveaway on my website, which is a.
It's a grid, and what you do isyou go and watch your favorite

(16:53):
natural history show and youstart logging every shot you see
on this piece of paper.
And so when, say, theestablishing shot opens up and
there's this drone shot of theforest with the mist below, you
stop it and you write down drone, extreme wide, you know, aerial
shot, etc.
Etc.
And then you carry on and thenthe next shot's slightly closer

(17:17):
and you just keep logging theseshots and what you start to see
is some patterns forming, notalways a pattern that's
repeatable, but a patternforming that shows that we
establish an area, and then wecome in a little closer and
we're.
You know the whole story isbeing told, but we're
establishing where we are.
So when we get down to thedetails, we understand, you know

(17:38):
, the bigger picture and thenthe detail shots are really,
really important Getting inclose, making us feel like we're
with the wildlife that we'relooking at, making us feel at
one with the environment.
Something I know you speak abouton your show is, you know,
being eye level with animalswhen we're taking photographs,
right, it's nothing worse thanif you're really up high and

(18:00):
you're shooting down oneverything.
It's just not a great shot.
You get down at eye level.
When I shoot black bears, whichI film a lot, I use what we
call a hi-hat, which is a minitripod and it's a big tripod, a
big, solid tripod with a bigfluid head, but it's only about
eight to 10, probably goes up toabout 16 inches in height, so

(18:21):
I'm kneeling down using that.
So I've got an incredibly goodpanning head and tilting head
that I can use, but I'm low down, I'm at eye level with a black
bear, and so those are the kindsof things that when you break
down a sequence from aprofessionally shot show, you
start to see what is necessaryto bring those thousand words

(18:42):
together, right To make itcaptivating, to bring us into
the story.
And once you start to understandan image sequence and what's
necessary, then when you'reputting your shot list together,
you know intuitively that, okay, I need to establish where I'm
at the beginning and I need tocome in and then get a little
tighter.
If we're talking about a meadowand we're going to film

(19:04):
butterflies, let's say, in ameadow at springtime, then we
might start with a drone shot ofthis big, beautiful, colorful
field.
Then we come in and we're maybepanning across the field and we
start to pull out individualflowers we can see.
Then we go in tight on a flowerand then we start to see some
butterflies in the air, you know, and then we go in.
And so it's these progressionof getting down to the detail

(19:28):
without understanding that orknowing that upfront, what
happens is people head into thefield with their video camera
and they start filming willynilly right.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
I feel so guilty right now.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
And don't worry, cause I've done this as well.
Right, this is how I know thesethings.
Right, trial and error.
And what happens is you comeback and you, you're all excited
and you start downloading yourfootage.
You look at it and you go, huh,everything looks the same.
And you start realizing thatthat one shot that you kept
getting, of a mid shot of aparticular animal, you can only

(20:04):
really use it once, right, andthen you need to show something
else now.
You might be able to show itlater on from slightly a
different angle, but if anyone'sever watched the show where the
shots repeat consistently, theyget very boring very, very
quickly, and what happens is youstart to tell yourself oh okay,

(20:24):
these guys claimed that theydidn't know what they were doing
, they didn't have enoughfootage.
And when you have that dialoguein your head, when you're
watching a film, you've lostyour audience.
If they're starting to thinkabout the lack of footage, then
you've lost them, and so it'sreally important to know that if
you're making a one hourspecial, you've got to film.
I'll give you an example.

(20:45):
We filmed a show calledMosquito Hell for National
Geographic, where we traveled tofour continents and looked at
mosquito transmitted diseases.
We shot 60 hours for that onehour show, which was basically a
40, would have been about 47minute show.
We shot 60 hours for it, wow,and that is because you need to

(21:06):
make sure you have enoughfootage to build that hour
together and make it compelling.
That's the you know, the mostimportant part.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
So, yeah, yeah, is that a pretty typical ratio in
the world of film, like kind ofa 60 to one?
I mean, I know that that'spretty high.

Speaker 2 (21:22):
That's high, but I think you know 30 hours, 30 to
40.
Well, anywhere from, it dependson the style of the show.
So these are arbitrary figures,you know.
I mean if it's a magazine styleshow, you're going to shoot way
less.
A magazine style show is verymuch where it's not one
continuous long story.
There might be a theme thatruns through it, but they're
very much mini pieces throughout.

(21:44):
If it's reality style, then youcan film far less.
I mean sometimes more.
If it's reality, it depends onwhat style of reality it is.
It depends on, obviously, thespecies, the amount of people
involved, things like that.
But yeah, I would say for a onehour show it could be anywhere
from about 20 to 60 or 70 hours.

(22:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:07):
Super good to know and obviously the more you have
to work with it, the better itis.
But I myself I find part of mystruggle in my own little
personal transition fromphotography to film is just the
organization of all that footageand going through it and
marking it and cataloging it.
I'm getting better, but it isyou know, I find myself trying

(22:28):
to shoot as little as possibleto not have to go through as
much, and I know that that'sjust the silliest thing.

Speaker 2 (22:35):
Once you have a process and you have that shot
list, then what tends to happenis you do end up shooting less
because you're far more specificwith the shots that you'll get
you know one of the things ispeople who are passionate about
wildlife.
It's very easy to be shootingone thing and then see something
at the corner of your eye andgo, oh, that would be great.
And she, oh, and that overthere, oh and this over here,

(22:56):
and suddenly you're filmingeverything yeah, completely,
completely irrelevant to theshow you're making.
So you know, sticking to yourshot list.
Occasionally you might say okay, you know, we're filming
something about lions and here'sthe other big five or the other
you know species that are inthe environment and we hadn't
got those on the shot list.
We might turn around and getsome of those, you know, to fill

(23:18):
in.
But generally when you stayvery focused on the storyline
and your shot list, you aregoing to shoot less because
you're more organized in thefirst place.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
So you answered a question before I got a chance
to ask it, which is brilliant.
I love it, and it's about thisgrid.
So I'll kind of re-ask thequestion, just to kind of frame.
Where I'm kind of going withthis conversation is you know, I
love the idea of you knowhunkering down on the
pre-production.
That makes a ton of sense.
And my question was going to beyou, jake, have had a lifetime

(23:50):
of amazing filmmaking, so it'sprobably relatively intuitive of
what goes on that list, right,your best case scenario list,
your must-have list.
I think you used slightlydifferent words, but you get the
point.
But then you introduced thisidea that maybe for those that
are a little more nascent intheir career, is a grid system,

(24:10):
and it sounds like you have iton your website.
I will absolutely put that inthe show notes and part of the
process in learning filmmakingis to use that grid and maybe go
through some of your favoritedocumentaries, some of your
favorite documentaries, some ofyour favorite films, and truly
just write notes on what kind ofshots they had.
And I guess that kind ofanswers my question of like, how

(24:32):
do you know what to put on thelist?
And your answer it seems likestudy, study up, watch what you
like and use this gridinfrastructure.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
Once you understand an image sequence, then
filmmaking becomes a whole lotmore, makes more sense to you,
right?
Because one of the reasons Istarted a mentoring group was to
overcome the overwhelm thatpeople face when they either
transition from photography tofilmmaking or just get into

(25:00):
wildlife filmmaking in the firstplace.
And overwhelm, I think think isthe biggest killer for everyone
is that there's suddenly, youknow you're trying to put on
five or six different hats,because when you realize that
audio is more important than thevideo, right, that freaks
people out, because all theywere worrying about was the

(25:21):
videography, right.
And so they start making a film.
And then they realize how hardit is to get good audio.
And the fact is that if youmake a show that has really
stunning four, 8k, whateverimages, but the audio is
terrible, it's unwatchable.
If you make a show that has alot of archive image in it,

(25:42):
which you know low resolution,the images aren't that great,
but it's a compelling story andthe audio is good, it's very
watchable.
And so it just goes to provethe audio is as important, if
not more important, and peopledon't think about the audio side
of it when they get intofilmmaking.
And so and that's just twoelements right, the image side,

(26:02):
the audio side, but then thestory.
And that's just two elementsright, the image side, the audio
side, but then the story.
And sticking to a story that'scompelling, because otherwise,
especially now, we have all themedia content out in the world
that we could ever dream of.
Right, and there's more andmore.
I mean, I think it's what dothey say on YouTube.
It's like billions of minutesof footage a day being uploaded

(26:24):
to YouTube.
And so now more than ever, it'sso important to make compelling
stories really think about thestory you're trying to tell, and
if it needs to be, you know,four minutes instead of 20
minutes, then make it reallycompelling.
Four minutes instead of a muchlonger, boring 20 minutes that
people aren't just going to, youknow, just not going to sit

(26:45):
through it in this day and age.
But yeah, understanding that.
And then here's the realclincher is that once you
understand a standard imagestructure, then you can break
the rules, and many, many a showbreaks the rules in how image
structures are put together,image sequences are put together
.
As long as the story iscompelling, then you can really

(27:05):
start to do what you want withit.
Image structures are puttogether, image sequences are
put together.
As long as the story iscompelling, then you can really
start to do what you want withit.
But there are fundamentals thatneed to be in place before you
start trying to break thoserules.
And so you know, I mean, aclassic example is, you know,
starting from a wide shot andmoving down gradually to a very
close-up detailed shot.
So, again, butterfly, you'retalking about drone shot, or if

(27:25):
you don't have a drone, thenjust a, you know, a wide expanse
of shot of the environmentgoing down to.
You know, now we're in thefield, it could be a medium shot
and we're starting to seeclusters of plants.
Now we're going in and we'reseeing just two plants together.
Now we're going in and we'retight on a plant and now we're
seeing, you know, butterfliesflying around and we're coming

(27:46):
closer and closer until we're at, like the macro opening shot
might be a macro shot of, uh,the head of a butterfly and
actually mosquito hell that Imentioned earlier, the opening

(28:12):
shot was a macro shot of theeyeballs of a mosquito with a
light moving around it.
And seeing the light movearound in it.
That is captivating because ofthe, you know, the narration
over the top of it and suddenlywe've got these eyeballs and
it's like what is this showabout?
Well then, what happens is thenyou move into the image
sequences after that.

(28:33):
So that's what makes it soexciting.
There's so many ways you canplay with image sequences to
make it work and tell innovativestories that are exciting.
And, um, you know, that'sthat's what I love.
Every show I make, I try andlook at ways to make it work,
make it slightly different, movethe barriers, but also, you

(28:55):
know, get the story to comeacross in a way that people
enjoy.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
Well, I'll tell you, I can't wait to download that
grid, print it out, watch adocumentary probably one of of
yours tonight and truly juststart the work, start studying,
start figuring that out, buildmy own little style and template
.
It's such such awesome adviceand then and that template.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
Just so you know it's called a builder sequence slash
breakdown tool, and so you canuse it to break down like that,
watching something.
But once you've done that, youcan use the same grid to write
your own out.
That's coming from your mindwith your own story, so it has a
double use.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
Super helpful advice.
I know a lot of folks in theaudience are probably primarily
into photography, but they knowit's just a matter of time
before they want to or they needto get into the videography,
the filmmaking aspect of things,and I think that that's.
It's something that didn'treally dawn on me, so I can only
expect that others in theaudience are probably really,

(29:54):
really stoked to learn aboutthis too.
So again in the show notes,another thing that I was
thinking about, kind of justmore of a comment here, as we do
bridge between photography andcinematography.
You know, hearing you say aboutthis image sequence makes me
think once again about thesimilarities between photo and
video work as something that Iteach quite often.

(30:15):
I'll mention it again here,just because I think it's so
important in today's day and ageto think about that image
sequence in the way we sharemedia.
Now predominantly, we'retalking about video today, but
making that bridge again back tophotos, when we're sharing
photos, whether it's online, inprint magazine, in a
presentation, I think manypeople in the moment are taking

(30:38):
one photo at a time and ofcourse, if the scene is
beautiful, they might take a fewshots.
If some action happens, theymight take a few more shots.
But more and more as I go intomy own journey, I'm realizing
that you know, just like film,you need to think about having
six to 10 shots in that sequence, simply because of the
opportunity that we have todayto share more than one photo via

(31:02):
social, via presentations thatwe're doing, via social, via
presentations that we're doing.
It's almost like our brains arekind of wired to think about
photography, as in the past,when you go to a photo
exhibition or when you see aphoto in someone's home that you
really like, it's like boom,one photo.
Let's get that awesome photo ofthe lion roaring, full mouth,
agape and teeth showing and likeawesome, it's the shot.

(31:24):
But the reality is 90% of thetimes we're sharing stuff, it's
you're able to share six, 10, 15photos.
So why not take photos of thevehicle, of the drive up, big
landscape shot, establishingshot, et cetera, et cetera.
So I think that's a really,really good point to make,
critical for cinematography buthas a tremendous parallel with

(31:46):
modern day photography, isthinking of that set of
sequences that tell the wholestory and get you to think about
more than just that climax kindof shot, that main, you know,
focal point of your adventure.
So, yeah, really really greatstuff there and then so I don't
want to go too far away.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
Can I just?
Can I just add to that onesecond?
Um, yeah, I think that's reallyimportant, actually something
that we used to get asked forfrom the broadcaster a lot.
So if we were making a show forNational Geographic, what
National Geographic would wantis an image photographs I'm
talking about.
Now that they could use formarketing.
So they would want a certainamount of images from every
sequence that we did, a certainamount of images from every

(32:24):
sequence that we did, meaningthat if we were making a show on
mosquitoes, they would want ashot of, say, myself
interviewing one of thescientists.
They would want some of thelocal people in the village that
we're in.
They would want an establishingshot of the village.
They might want a shot of meholding a mosquito up to my
eyeball and kind of you knowthat close-up type.

(32:45):
They wanted sequences that theycould pick the photo the best
represented the final edit nowof course when we're filming
we're not seeing the final edit.
We're getting everything that weknow we need, but it makes more
sense when you're looking atthe final edit to then choose
the marketing photos from that.

(33:06):
So we used to have to take aDSLR with us, take pictures from
every sequence, and those inthemselves were sequences.
Now we do.
We generally don't do it somuch because we can take, you
know, screenshots from highresolution footage, from the
footage itself, so, but it usedto be a much bigger deal, yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:24):
Yeah, thinking in batches, that's the lesson to
take away, but it used to be amuch bigger deal.
Yeah yeah, thinking in batches,that's the lesson to take away.
I have heard so many times whentalking about film,
cinematography, that is kind ofsounds a little goofy, but
people giving advice would saymake your first hundred videos
and then come talk to me aboutmy advice, like so.

(33:46):
In other words, so much of yourown learning process is in the
doing and I am a huge believerin that and I'm just wondering
your thoughts and maybe sometake out the door advice or
advice for as you're leavingyour house, you know going to do
your first project just takingthe bull by the horns.
Like, how would you approachsmaller projects in your own

(34:08):
neighborhood, your backyard,when you're not going to Africa
or going to the Arctic for polarbears or anything where the
stakes are higher?
What are some things goingthrough your head or some advice
you'd give to aspiringcinematographers and filmmakers
to get that practice in?

Speaker 2 (34:27):
Well, I think, first of all, you hit the nail on the
head.
Just going out into yourbackyard and practicing is so
unbelievably important.
I think the most importantthing going back to
pre-production is I know you'repracticing, but you still want
to have an idea of what you'regoing to go and shoot.
There's a difference between ifyou're just going out to test a
camera, that's leaving thehouse with no idea of what

(34:48):
you're going to go and shoot.
There's a difference between ifyou're just going out to test a
camera, that's leaving thehouse with no idea of what
you're doing other than testingthe exposure, the ergonomics,
where are the buttons, that kindof stuff.
Now, if you're going toactually put it into practice
and say, okay, I want topractice making a two minute
film so that when I go on my 10,15, $20,000 journey across the
world, I know what I'm doing inthat scenario.

(35:11):
So, find something thatinterests you in your backyard.
It might be pollinating plantsor plants that are being
pollinated by pollinators,whatever.
That is where you are Lookingat telling a mini story about
that, If it's because you havehoneybees nearby and they're
coming in and they're going tothe blossoms on your tree and to

(35:32):
the flowers in the flower bed,then what shots can you think
about before you leave the house?
That will be interesting totell that story.
And then look, and even ifyou're not writing them down,
and I would say if you'restarting out write them down and
so you just have a littlenotepad with you and it says you
know, you know you're going towant a close-up of a flower or a

(35:54):
blossom with a bee on it, andyou're probably going to want
quite a few of those fromdifferent angles and so here's
the way to look at it.
Let's say, you know the biggerpicture is you're going to take,
you know the establishes ofyour yard, you're going to come
in closer to the plants, you'regoing to show the flower bed,
you're going to, you know,explain the environment.
But even when a bee lands on aflower, one shot of that is not

(36:19):
going to be enough to tell thestory.
So how can you film that onebehavioral thing happening of a
bee coming in and, you know,feeding from the plant and
getting pollen on it?
How can you now shoot that in adifferent way, where you can
build a sequence of that oneevent?
Because the one event is justnot one shot of boom.

(36:41):
Here's the flower, here it isBoom, it's gone, exit, done.
You know, to really get intothe nitty gritty, what we could
do is we could do a front shotwhere you're looking into the
flower and you know, you see itcome in and it's getting pollen
and it flies out.
Great, you've got an entry andexit, hopefully.
If you haven't, then what youwant to do is you want to pick a

(37:02):
flower that doesn't have one onit and wait for the entrance
and then let it do its thing andthen let it exit.
Because now you havepotentially three shots you've
got the entrance shot, you'vegot the feeding shot and you've
got the exit shot.
Now you want to get that inslightly different way, because
I could see that you get that.
There's the picture of theflower, you get the entrance,

(37:22):
but now, instead of sticking onit, you could cut to a profile
shot where you can really startto see the sacks of pollen on
the bees legs.
And so now you're going to filmit again, but from the side, so
that when the bees on it,you've got this beautiful
profile shot, it lookscompletely different to the
first shot you did.
So think about ways you canfilm the same thing from

(37:46):
multiple angles.
That's one of the best learningthings you can learn when you're
starting out, because whattends to happen with the
overwhelm of doing everything iswe get a shot of a bee coming
in the landing, we go oh my gosh, I got the whole thing, it was
excellent, and then you're on tothe next thing and then you get
in the edit and you go.
Well, that was like six seconds.

(38:09):
You know what?
What do I do now?
But we tend to get toooverexcited and our you know
physiology trumps thinking andso we get back and we realize we
don't have enough.
So I would say, you know, reallyconcentrate on getting the same
thing in different ways.
Don't get the same shot overand over and over because that's

(38:29):
the other mistake people make.
They'll stay in one positionand go well.
One came in and fed.
It looked fantastic.
I'm going to do it again.
Now, that's okay to do that andget a safety shot, but if you
know you got it and it was infocus.
Now change the angle, becausethat's a usable shot.
Change the angle because that'sa usable shot because when you

(38:49):
cut from one thing to another,that cut should be of a big
enough significance that thestory is moving forward.
The worst thing is when you seea cut and this, the image is
almost the same and it was likewow, they, that's not moving the
story forward with images inany way.
That's just just like a thatlooks like a mistake.
So really practice on you knowhow many ways can you film the

(39:10):
same thing?
Because what you'll find, themore you do that.
It's exciting when you get inan edit, because now you have
all of these different anglesand not all of them will work,
but you'll find that you canreally start to piece them
together in a way that becomescompelling.
So I think that's one of thethings that I find most

(39:33):
important.
And then really, just variationof shots.
You know your, your establishes, like we're talking about image
sequencing.
I would say the other thing toavoid overwhelm is not to put
too many, you know, not try andmake a professional film right
off out the gate.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
And so you know this is going to be planet earth, for
you know, not try and make aprofessional film, right off out
the gate and say you know thisis going to be planet earth 4.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
Yeah, you know, look at it in a way that you're
you're going out to try and getshots, that you know, when we go
out as filmmakers we don't makean entire movie from one trip.
Generally, right, generallywe're going out and we're
getting pieces of the puzzle andwhen you look at it like that
takes the pressure off, becauseif you go out and you know

(40:11):
there's not much happening interms of the bees coming into
your yard, oh, here's a shot, Igot a shot.
Oh, and maybe it's coming back,I'll get a different angle, you
know.
So, okay, you're not going toget the whole thing in that hour
or two, maybe try over thecourse of a week and go out and
see if you can build it.
You know, obviously, understandcontinuity, meaning make sure

(40:33):
that the light is the same.
You know, if you're filming atmidday these, you know
buttercups with the the beescoming in, make sure it's midday
or looks very similar.
Don't do it on an overcast daywhere you can't match those two
images together.
And and really don't worry toomuch about you know, trying to
get cool movements and making ittoo stylistic, because those

(40:57):
things come with time.
You know, if you go back andlook at the good old fashioned
kind of natural history showsfrom the 60s and seventies,
there wasn't all of this veryfluid movement that we see in
the today's shows and that'sbecause they just didn't have
the technology available.
Now, of course, it's all aboutshot overs and you know gimbals

(41:17):
on helicopters and you name it,but you don't have to
incorporate all that to beginwith.
In fact, if you can take youriPhone out or your Android phone
out and you could make an imagesequence with your phone, what
you'll find is it's ratheryou're now not worrying about,
you know, exposure and thingslike that, because you're going
to just set it on auto and letit do its thing.

(41:39):
It's going to, you know, pickthe best setting for you.
It's far more important to beable to worry about.
You know your the frame right,where your composure, you know
how are you composing the shot,are you using the rule of thirds
, are you doing too many of thesame shots or do you have enough
variation?
When you start eliminating allthe other things like exposure

(42:01):
and you know iris and shutterand taking all of those things
away, you can really start tothink about the framing.
And this is obviously.
I could go on forever aboutthis.
It's such a big subject but weare.
One of the main differences isthat when you're transitioning
from photography to videography,we tend to leave the shutter in
its place right.
So we're doubling the framerate with our shutter tends to

(42:22):
be.
If you're filming at 30 framesa second, you have a 160th
shutter and you leave it there.
Unless you're trying to geteffects or you're trying to get
more light, you generally leaveit there, and so you know,
rather than trying to worryabout the technical side of what
it is to take video, worryabout the storytelling side and

(42:43):
what it is to make good lookingimages, get a variety of those,
and does it make a compellingviewing experience, telling that
story, I think, and using aphone can really help you do
that, because it takes all theother worry away.
So I'd say on your first outingwhen you're practicing, try
something like that, don'toverthink it.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
Yeah, great, great advice, and I've heard that and
believe it time and time again,that it's really not the
equipment, it's the vision, it'swhat goes deeper and well
beyond all that.
But let's stay on this topicfor one more follow-up question
the audio.
So obviously we now know theaudio is at least half the
equation.
What would you say to thebeginning filmmaker that wants

(43:25):
to produce a nice you know anice little two minute film that
is is not going to be wasted?
You know you spend the hoursdoing all this and being quite
diligent in the pre-productionand the actual shooting.
You know you, you kind of have afew different options.
You can take audio from youractual surroundings, you can do
a voiceover, you can add music.
Is there anything that youthink is?

(43:47):
You know not to be a cop out,but like isn't all that hard,
you're not going to mess up.
That just gives like a reallynice, solid, professional vibe
to the video.
When you know that you knowyour audio equipment on an
iPhone or even on like amirrorless camera isn't going to
be all that great, do you stickwith just one?
Do you stick with just themusic?

(44:08):
Do you stick with voiceover asa combination of all that, are
there any pitfalls there?
What's your take on the audioaspect?

Speaker 2 (44:14):
It's definitely a combination to make it
professional.
I would say let's stick withthe easy stuff right While
you're practicing, just have acamera mic right Onboard mic on
your camera camera.
Don't try and get too fancywhere you're trying to put
remote mics out to get this andthe other because you just you
don't need it.
Starting out, you do want to tryand get natural surrounding

(44:36):
sound, atmospheric sound, whenyou're in an environment.
So if you're in a forest andthe we, the wind is rustling the
leaves and there are birdssinging and you know, etc.
Etc.
Et cetera, et cetera, all ofthose lovely noises, natural
sounds that are going on aroundyou, an on-camera mic is going
to pick those up well enough tobe able to use.
There are very different layerswhen it comes to sound and

(45:00):
budgets right for shows.
So, for instance, you can lookat a professional show that has
very minimal sound mixing doneon it and the show's still
fantastic.
And then you can go to the fullend of this other end of the
spectrum where you've got theplanet earth 3, which has got
every sound you can imaginethat's been folied, meaning it's
been made in studio, to naturalsound, to bought sounds, to

(45:23):
archived sound, to Hans Zimmer,you know, with with an orchestra
.
So you know you can go to theother end of the spectrum.
But it doesn't make itnecessarily unwatchable if you
don't have those things.
So the important part is, aslong as you've got something
that relates to the imagesyou're looking at.
You know, if you've got somenatural sound that you can put
on let's say you're filming adeer and it's rustling around in

(45:46):
the leaves in the forest, it'stoo far away for your mic to
really get what's going on.
It might be kicking the floorand you don't really hear that.
It's not the end of the worldif you have natural sound over
the top.
So if you've got some of theenvironment sound of the leaves
and the you know just the theforest sounds and then you've

(46:07):
got some music with somenarration on it, no one will
notice that you're not hearingthe sound of what the deer is
doing.
But if you add the sound inbecause you have a bigger budget
and you're out there and you'vegot remote things or you're
foleying it now, it justenhances that movie.
So it's really about a mix of.

(46:27):
You know, if you've got theoriginal scenario, so you've
recorded, some comes in you needto drop that music down at the
point where the person speaksand so we can hear it, with the
music much lower in thebackground.

(46:52):
As they finish the music comesback up right.
So we're mixing that audiotogether as long as the images
are matching this compellingstory that is being told to us.
And there's some nice musicthat's fitting, because, again,
you know that music needs to fitthe scenario.
You don't want some you knowChinese music playing in the

(47:14):
background when we're not inChina right, you want it to
match the kind of scene.
And so once you put thosethings together, you can really
start to cover up the fact thatyou don't have the best audio
that could be.
And you know, I made a showreconnecting wild uh, the re is
in parentheses but it's onYouTube, everyone can see it.

(47:36):
Reconnecting wild, restoringsafe passage.
Reconnecting wild, restoringsafe passage.
I made that for the Departmentof Transportation in Nevada and
for a company or an organizationcalled Arc Solutions, and they
are all about mitigating roadtraffic accidents on some of
America's busiest roads.

(47:56):
This was I-80, an interstatethat runs between Utah through
Nevada into California, and itwas about some overpasses that
had been put in for the muledeer migration, where four and a
half thousand animals twice ayear crossed that road and one
of the things that you know itwas a small budget show.
It's a great film.
It's about 12 minutes long, butthere was very limited audio.

(48:19):
There's a lot of drone footage.
In it there's lots of distantshots of activity with traffic
and animals, and so I actuallyrecorded a lot of the traffic
audio separately and dubbed itin over the top of some of those
scenes that you would neverknow.
And then there were parts thatcould have used more audio, but

(48:39):
there wasn't time and therewasn't the money to do it, and
so there's just music andthere's narration and there are
interviews and it works, and soit's a good example of how you
don't need to have multi layersof audio tracks to make it
compelling.
But certainly if the budget wastwice the size, I would have had

(49:00):
probably five extra tracks ofaudio in there.
That would have just made thewhole thing more compelling.
Sure, yeah, so audio is aninteresting one because it's an
art in itself.
Actually, one of the people Ijust interviewed for my podcast
it's not out yet, but it's a guynamed George Vlad.
He is a sound recorder.

(49:21):
He travels the world recordingenvironments.
He actually I can announce itnow because I couldn't when, I
couldn't before now, but themovie's out he actually recorded
desert sounds for june part two, which is now on the cinema
right now.
Oh cool.
So, yeah, he was responsiblefor some of that.
He's done incredible stuff onPlanet Earth 3.

(49:43):
And his whole career is basedaround going out and recording
environment sounds.
It's an art form in itself.
So when we try and add thatinto our filmmaking, it's a lot
wearing many, many hats for sure.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
Yeah, I mean, it's a great answer and it's one you
know.
I would love to just hear theeasy answer of like, oh yeah,
just, you know, slap some banjoon top of it.
But the reality is it's not.
It's way more complex.
You've got to figure out, youknow, where are you, what are
the natural sounds, what are themore potentially cultural
sounds, having a mix when youare lacking in one area, making

(50:18):
up for another?
So yeah, it's a real scienceand I think just hearing that
from you really helps wrap mymind around that that's what
moves the needle, you know,between amateur film and
professional film.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
Certainly, though, I would say, to start with, just
record natural sound whileyou're out and about.
Here's a good tip for you Makesure your microphone is, you
know, pointing.
If you're using a shotgun mic,ideally, because that's picking
up most of the sound in front.
One of the things if you useany other type of
omnidirectional mic, it's goingto pick up your hand noise on
your camera, which is the lastthing you want Um and you've got

(50:53):
to be careful if you're usinglong lenses.
Just to be very careful whenyou're, you know, focusing with
your hand out in front of themic, cause don't want to hear
that either.

Speaker 1 (51:01):
So yeah, fantastic, jake.
Well, switching gears here, youhave been working on some
really impressive projects,including planet earth 3 and
some other things with bbc.
I was wondering if you couldjust talk a little bit about
those, what you've been up towith them, and also, uh, kind of
talking about some of thethings you learned.
We're always know we asphotographers and filmmakers are

(51:23):
we as the general kind ofwildlife filmmaking community

(51:45):
out there.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
Something we relearn every time we go out is it
doesn't matter how big thebudget is, it still doesn't mean
you're going to get everythingthat you hope to get right so
just, you know, I filmed urbanblack bears, which I've been
filming for many, many years,and so when the BBC came to me,
they they wanted very specificsequences of urban black bears

(52:07):
in Tahoe Lake, tahoe, which iswhere I filmed the bears.
And when they came to me theyhad a set sequence they wanted
and a shot list and they said,you know, but do you think you
can get this?
And I said, well, 90%, maybe95%, yes, because that's
repeatable behavior that I see.
But you know, the other 5% waslike, if we're really lucky, and

(52:29):
we never did get that and soyou know again, it's knowing.
You know it's just because thebudgets were there for me to
stay out of.
First, they hired me for a weekand said you know, head out for
a week and see what you can get.
And I went out for a week and Igot some great stuff and they
said this is so good, we wantyou out there for another two
weeks because we can onlyimagine what you're going to get

(52:50):
.
And so it ended up being athree-week straight, 21 nights.
It's all filmed at night.
And just knowing that it'sirrelevant, even if you keep
getting sent out, just knowingthat it's irrelevant, even if
you keep getting sent out, Imean, at the end of that three
weeks they actually said to meif you continue going out, will
you get anything more?
And at that point I had to saynot really as much as I probably

(53:11):
should have said oh yeah, yeah,keep hiring me.
It was a case really we're notgoing to see too much different
at that point.
So you're always relearningthat different at that point.
So you know, you're alwaysrelearning that there's only so
much that you know you can bethere, but whether the activity,
the behavior happens or not isjust down to the reality of

(53:31):
wildlife.
The other thing is that I shotmore recently on the new BBC
series called mammals, which hasjust been announced and it's
due out in the next few weeks,certainly in the UK.
I'm not sure when it'll comeover here, but it'll probably be
on bbc america before it hitsanything else and that's david
anbera's latest series.
What I learned with that is thatyou know, we've just been

(53:54):
through a big bubble withnatural history filmmaking.
There's been this, this hugebuildup of these streaming
companies that all wanted somenatural history content and so
there was huge demand fornatural history content and that
meant that people were beinghired willy nilly all over the
place to go out and get stuff.
And for the BBC series we weresent into the field with a

(54:18):
producer who didn't have muchexperience and it was a bit of a
trying time, purely becausethey didn't really understand
continuity, and it was a realeye opener that we could be in
that situation.
But I think it was just supplyand demand right, try and get
what that, what you can.
And because of that thesequence took a hit, because we

(54:40):
were filming things that wereally shouldn't have been
filming at the time of, becausewe were filming things that we
really shouldn't have beenfilming at the time of day.
We were filming on the days wewere filming that wouldn't match
other days, and it was just abig learning curve for me that
just because someone is workingfor a big network doesn't
actually mean that theyunderstand the process, and
that's a shame, you know.
I think that is just a sign ofthe times and that has changed

(55:01):
now, because we're in a very bigslump when it comes to
broadcast natural historyprogramming.
That bubble has burst and now,you know, there's.
We've probably got a quite afew months before things start
to build back up.
But those were two things Ilearned in terms of filming.
I mean, what an incredibleprivilege to film for planet
earth.
Three was a dream come true forme.
Not only was I filming thebears that I film have been

(55:25):
filming for about 18 years now,because I filmed a similar thing
for a show, rogue Raiders thatwe did for National Geographic
Channel about 15, 20 years ago18 years ago.
And then to be back there andactually met my wife, who was
studying bears at the time, onthat original shoot.
So to be filming bears in thesame area for really the you

(55:49):
know, the top of the top when itcomes to natural history shows
was an incredible thing there atTahoe.
With the habituation of thesebears to human activity and how
they're coming in for our trashand how there are lots of things
that we need to be doing toeliminate that problem, mitigate

(56:10):
that problem was incredible toget the opportunity.

Speaker 1 (56:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
I mean, you know it's even for someone like myself
who's worked for the last 20years in broadcast TV.
There's still moments where youpinch yourself and go, wow, is
this real?
And getting to film for a showthat Attenborough is narrating
that?
I grew up watching Attenboroughshows as a kid and was just
fascinated, so it was a dreamcome true.

Speaker 1 (56:36):
Oh, it's incredible.
Yeah, big, big congrats on that, jake, well-deserved,
well-deserved.
Okay, cool, we're going toswitch to a little bit of rapid
fire questions here as we roundthings out, sure, yeah, so let's
just kick right into it.
First thing, what is the JakeWiller's video style and why?
So this is usually more of likea photography question.

(56:57):
We talk about the lighting andare you like a big contrast
person?
For those in the audience thatdon't realize it, you know a lot
of the.
You know same capabilities forphoto editing appear in video
too, so I think this is stillentirely appropriate.
So, like, what is your style?
What's the look you're goingfor?

Speaker 2 (57:15):
You know it changes.
So there's certainly the styleI like to aim for, but it's not
always what happens, because I'mnot in charge of the final edit
.
But, I like scenes that playout.
I like you know my favoritefilm is 2001,.
A Space Odyssey.
I think that says everythingabout it, right.

(57:36):
I like being captivated in amoment and expressing that
moment for the beauty of what itis, without having to jump away
from it instantly and I thinkif we can you know, if I can
create shows that have an appeal, with those longer shots that
really tell a story, that's I'mdoing the best I can.

(57:57):
You know, I think it's easy inthis day and age to one be
forced to, but to make thesejump cut shows where it's all
very fast, all very fast, fastermusic jumping away here,
keeping the eyeballs on it.
You know I get tired of thatvery, very quickly.
So for me it's about reallydrawing these shots out and
making it as beautiful as it canbe, so that people are drawn

(58:18):
into that scene as if they werethere, sat with me at that time
and seeing that beauty.
Lighting wise, I love playingwith lighting.
The hard part with film is that,unless you have big budgets and
you have lots of time, you knowit takes a lot longer.
Obviously, if you're going outto get a photo and you know
you're going to go out for a sethour because that's golden hour

(58:38):
and you're going to take photo,that's great.
But when you're filming, youneed a lot more footage, and so
it's inevitable that, unlessyour budgets are huge and you
can go out the same time everyday, you end up filming at times
you don't really want to film.
So then it's about how can Imake the best of what I've got?
And that is, I think, my mantrareally as a wildlife filmmaker

(59:01):
is you're always having to makethe best of what you've got,
because you're not always, youdon't always have the
opportunity to choose everythingyou know in the best way, and
I'm sure that's the same withwildlife photography, as well.
Sometimes you know you're thereand it's not the ideal.
But with filmmaking it takes alot more time and you're having
to make those compromises as yougo.

(59:23):
But style wise, I think it'smore about timing for me.
I want things to play out, Iwant it to be slower, I want
people to be captivated.

Speaker 1 (59:30):
I like it.
I like it.
Yeah, we're all making lemonade.
I'll put it that way right,yeah, exactly.
It's hard to say you're ever ina real ideal condition because
something's always going on.
But yeah, that's a great answer.
Okay, talking a little bitabout gear putting you behind
the camera, what is yourfavorite lens for the type of
cinematography you focus on?

Speaker 2 (59:50):
canon cn20.
It's a specific.
It's a cine lens specificallybuilt for wildlife filmmaking.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
Its price tag is 70,200 is that 50 to 1, 1000
millimeter 50 to 1000.
Oh yeah, I've heard it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
It was um.
Actually on my podcast there'sa uh.
One of my guests is IvoNorenberg, uh, and he was the
guy that actually proposed thatlens to Canon and said we want a
lens.
It's no more than 16 incheslong, it's a cine servo zoom
lens that has a doubler in it.
It's 50 to a thousand.
They laughed at him and then afew years later, with his help,

(01:00:27):
they built that lens and it's anastonishing lens.
I mean to have 50 to a thousand, you know, to have that range
and then double it and for it towork on 4k, you know, five, six
K, you name it.
I mean it's an astonishing lens.
Still weighs quite a bit,obviously, but it's still very
compact for what it is.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:47):
I love that.
Here's what I want you guys toengineer, and they did it.
That's incredible Well as aCanon guy mad props to Canon for
that, because that's just areally cool way to do things.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
Okay, so similar with gear what is a piece of gear

(01:01:20):
for your videography that knowif anyone you guys use v-locks
in the photography world.
They're a much bigger battery.
It has a v on the back and it'syou kind of click the v into
the v mount plate.
Oh interesting, no not that Ipersonally know of but well,
these things are like a brick,right, and the idea is you that
you can pretty much you knowpower anything off them.

(01:01:43):
They're so versatile that ifyou have a many cameras come
with the v-lock mount on theback of the cinema cameras.
But small rig.
I have a small rig, one coupleof them, but other manufacturers
make them that it's basically aplate that you can slide onto
your 15 inch or 19,.
Sorry, mil and 19 mil rod systemand you're basically putting a

(01:02:05):
battery on it and then you'rewiring the plate into your
camera and the plate actuallyhas multiple connectors on it so
you can have, you can chargeyour phone on it, you can power
monitors, lights, microphones,all sorts sorts, including your
camera.
What it does is it takes acamera like if I'm using a small

(01:02:27):
, I use a sony a7s right for thesense, light sensitivity, small
camera.
Those batteries typically onlylast anywhere from 20 to 35
minutes.
If you're lucky, I power itthrough the v-mount battery
and'll get three, four hours outof it.
So, that's a game changer.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
Yeah, this is a tool that just gives you almost
unlimited battery, or like okay,yeah, and then if you have a,
it's what you can do is well,actually, you can't with that
one.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
With my larger camera , I can have an internal battery
on the camera as well, and soit's actually charging that at
the same time.
When the V-Lock battery goesdown, I can take it off and it's
now running internally, so itbasically gives me constant
power, and then I could swap outthat battery and I'm good to go
again.

Speaker 1 (01:03:13):
So yeah, Okay, I'll take it.
So last question about gear,and this may not be as pertinent
if you're rocking the 50 to1000 as your choice lens, but in
my world I always recommendfolks, on each trip that I guide
, consider what I call anX-factor lens.
I don't know if this isuniversal terminology, but it's
just a lens that you may onlyuse for a handful of shots, but

(01:03:35):
whatever you get from it couldpotentially, given the lens, the
parameters of the lens, giveyou some of the shots of your
trip.
Do you have your favoriteX-Factor lens?

Speaker 2 (01:03:46):
Yeah, I think probably the 400 mil 2.8.
You know that lens has enoughrange to be able to get in there
and get a tight shot at 2.8,.
You know which is for me,filming at night, having the
ability to do that, the biggestissue that I have with a lens

(01:04:07):
like that is obviously theinability to be able to choose
your shot Right.
So you know the only way to dothat is to run backwards and
forwards to to change the shot.
But you know, if I have I meanif I had an unlimited budget two
cameras one with the CN20, onewith that 400 on there that
really I can then just get superlow light shots, I mean with a

(01:04:29):
2.8, with that distance, thatfocal range.
And then you know a sensor likethe a7S that is really letting
me see in the dark and that,yeah, it's a super crisp lens.
I mean it's a super crisp lens.
I mean it's beautiful that the.
You know the one thing aboutzoom lenses you're always
compromising some degree becauseof the amount of glass in there

(01:04:50):
.
The fact that that 400 justgives you a super, super, you
know, crisp shot at thataperture is a dream.
So yeah, I just I can't.
I've used them on a few shoots,but it is so limiting for
filmmaking that you have toreally have either you've got to
be quick at changing yourlenses and there's nothing quick

(01:05:10):
about changing big lenses onbig cameras because of the
support systems or you've got tohave two cameras and be you
know swapping out.

Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
So I'd imagine big primes are quite different in
terms of utility and usefulnesswhen it comes to videography and
cinematography.
Right, because for photography,you know, depending on the use,
we can always crop it in.
We can, you know, but you guys,you know, doing what you do,
you can't really crop a wholelot.

Speaker 2 (01:05:38):
So I'd imagine that if you don't have a zoom, very,
very limiting yeah you know, Imean we can crop when we, when
we're talking about filming withred 6k cameras and 8k now you
start to be able to crop and getthat extra shot.
But no, you're.
You know the times I've usedone is when I've gone out with a
zoom lens and I go out and Ifilm the footage I need right

(01:06:00):
from the essentials list we weretalking about.
And then what I do, if I havethe 400 with me, I'll then go,
okay, I've got that stuff, butnow I want to get the better
stuff on the ultimate.
So I'm going to put the primeon, because now I know I don't
have to worry so much aboutvariation of shot.
All I'm looking for is those 400mil close-ups and I can put a

(01:06:21):
doubler on there, you know, andget 800 mil and and but now just
have the ability to have a muchwider open aperture and just
get crisper looking images thatare just going to complement
everything else.
You know, with filmmaking, ifyou have some really high-end
shots in a film and noteverything else is like that, it

(01:06:42):
helps build the quality leveloverall, right?
Not every shot needs to be likethat, because sometimes it's
understandable that there'sdrama happening and you know
it's just not going to be crispand you know, sometimes it goes
out of focus and that's justbecause, even you know, if
you're a fantastic focus puller,sometimes you just can't keep
up with it.
You know, and that's justbecause even you know, if you're
a fantastic focus puller,sometimes you just can't keep up

(01:07:03):
with it.
You know that's understandableif the shot shows that and
people, people don't mind.
Again, it comes down to it Isthe audio good?
If the audio is good, peoplewon't care.

Speaker 1 (01:07:14):
I love it.
Yeah, no, that's a great answer.
Great X-Factor lens and greatperspective.
That's that's exactly what I'mgetting at with X Factor is like
what's the thing that couldjust get you above and beyond,
over the top awesomeness.
So, yeah, very, very cool.
Okay, so I know you're also amentor to new filmmakers.
We've talked about this kind ofstuff a lot already, but since

(01:07:35):
this is part of the rapid firesection, what is the top one?
The two bits of information foranyone starting off wanting to
make a big mark in filmmakingand big mark on this world you
know it's um, passion.

Speaker 2 (01:07:48):
You know it sounds like a cliche, but passion is
what it's all about because, uh,right now there's a, a contract
.
Uh, you know, the industry iscontracting, right, there's a
bottleneck.
It's the people who have thepassion that are going to pull
through an era like this,because they want to be in this
industry and they're going tofind ways to stay in this

(01:08:10):
industry.
So you've got to be passionate.
I always.
I relate it to the real estateindustry.
Right, you know, when there's aboom in the housing market,
realtors suddenly come out thewoodwork.
They're everywhere.
Your everywhere, your neighborsare real family members are
realtor.
when there's a contraction inthe market, a lot of those
people who weren't passionateabout bringing realtors go and

(01:08:30):
get a different job and theyjust disappear from it and go.
That wasn't for me, but thepeople who love it, they stick
with it and they make it work.
And that's the same withwildlife filmmaking.
There's always going to betough times, you know.
I would say 80 to 90% of thepeople in the in the industry
are freelancers and as afreelancer it can be extremely
hard going.
So you have to find ways tomake it work and you're only

(01:08:53):
going to do that if you'repassionate about it.
And so you know just aiming forthe stories that you're
passionate about, because thathelps you stay on track.
If you're passionate aboutmarine conservation, then don't
go and make films about you know, butterflies in a meadow right.
Make films about marineconservation and stick with it

(01:09:14):
and aim towards them.
Yeah, you might have to go anddo something else over here to
subsidize it.
That's great, but always stayyou always stay focused on what
your goal is.

Speaker 1 (01:09:24):
Excellent, sage, sage advice.
Well, jake, we certainly wantto know where to find you.
I know where to find you.
You have a great website,you've got a production company,
you've got your own podcast.
You appear in so many differentareas, but let me hear from you
when can folks in the audiencefind Jake Willers?

Speaker 2 (01:09:42):
Sure, actually jakewillerscom is the easiest
place to go because it has linksto everything else on there.
So jakewillerscom, that's gotthe podcast on there, it's got
my mentoring group, it's gotbits and pieces about me.
My production company isninecariboucom for the website
and that has other films onthere, but you can also find it

(01:10:03):
on YouTube.
But jakewillerscom is kind ofthe main place and all my social
media is attached to that.

Speaker 1 (01:10:09):
Okay, fantastic.
Let me ask what's the storybehind Nine Caribou's name, Is
it Well, how long have we got?

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
There is a story behind that one.
The quick answer is that therewas a series I spoke about
called Wild Events LargestSpectacles on Earth.
That was going to be an eightepisode show ended up being a
seven episode show because theeighth episode was going to be
the caribou migration in thefield looking for caribou.
But we ended up being stranded,running out of food, having our

(01:10:46):
lives threatened, and we.
We obviously got out, but therewas a time there that we
thought we wouldn't.
Uh, with all of those thingsgoing on, we also would.
We were stranded so we didn'thave the plane that was going to
be spotting the caribou for us,and so when I left the
expedition, I had seen ninecaribou, not 9,000 or 100,000

(01:11:11):
that we were expecting to see.
I actually saw one in camp thatcame through one day, and then
I saw three on the ground as wewere taking off, and then I saw
a group of five on the planejourney out.
So literally nine individualcaribou.
But I was the happiest to getout of that place I've ever been
to get out of anywhere.
So, yeah, wow.

Speaker 1 (01:11:33):
That's a great story.
It's a great name and a greatstory Awesome Look, jake.
You've been so generous withyour wisdom, your time, your
advice.
I learned a lot.
I know folks in the audiencewill have learned a heap of a
lot and maybe be inspired.
If they haven't yet made thattransition from photography to
filmmaking, this might give themjust the needed tools to

(01:11:53):
consider that.
Of course, we don't want peopleto go permanently away from
photography because there's awhole host of conservation
awesome conservationimplications with what we do,
but nevertheless, hopefullythere's some inspiration and
some wisdom out for you guys inthe audience today.
I know there was a lot for meand Jake.
Thank you so much for joiningme today on the Wild
Photographer.

Speaker 2 (01:12:12):
Hey, thank you, Corey , it's been a pleasure.
Thanks so much Okay cheersUntil next time.