Mastering Tools and Processes with Anna Burgess Yang

Episode Transcript
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Nigel Rawlins (00:05):
In today's episode, I'm speaking with Anna
Burgess Yang, a former FinTechexecutive who has transitioned
to a successful freelancecontent writer, where she's
managed to balance the demandsof her multiple roles while
building a thriving solopreneurbusiness.
Rising at 4:00 AM foruninterrupted focus, Anna
manages her client projects,raising three children and

(00:28):
pursuing personal growth.
While Anna may not call herselfa lean thinker, she practices it
by constantly refining herworkflow to make her work more
efficient.
Juggling her work and familylife is no small feat, but she
smartly uses automation andorganizational tools to keep
everything running smoothly.

(00:49):
In this episode Anna unpacks herprocess for streamlining tasks,
leveraging generative AI toboost her creativity and
building a personal brand thatdraws clients in with genuine
authenticity.
This episode offers you avaluable opportunity to learn
how an established solopreneureffectively manages her

(01:09):
professional business and a busylife.
Anna, welcome to theWisepreneurs podcast.
Can you tell us something aboutyourself and where you're from?

Anna Burgess Yang (01:18):
So I am originally from a state in the
U.
S.
called Wisconsin, but Icurrently live in a suburb of
Chicago and have been here forabout 15 years with my family
including three kids and threecats.

Do they get to go outside or do you keep them
inside?

They are totally inside, and I have
worked from home, since 2006, sothere have always been cats
around.

The reason I say that is that we have a native,
um, native garden, so we like toattract the the birds, and we've
got new next door neighbourswith cats, and we chased a cat
out of the garden the other day,so, you know, cats if they get
outside they actually hunt, soit was a bit of a worry, so, uh,
especially all the effort, andwe, we get beautiful native

(02:03):
birds coming into the gardens,they've all, they've all made
their noises now, so they'reprobably not going to interfere
with us.
So Anna, tell us about what youdo.
You made the shift from FinTech.
So tell us something aboutFinTech and the shift that you
made.

So, um, I worked at a financial
technology, uh, FinTech softwarecompany for 15 years.
And I got, I got into thatbecause, uh, prior to that, I
worked at a bank.
And I worked at a bank for sixyears.
So it was kind of a naturalshift from banking into this
technology that served banks.
And I was the product manager atthe company.

(02:44):
I left, I was on the executiveteam.
And in 2021, I was an earlyarrival at the great resignation
that kind of hit the globe andquit my job and went into
content marketing andjournalism.
And worked for companies forabout 18 months.
And now I work for myself as afreelance writer

So the interesting thing there is you,
you had a fairly long career.
What made you decide you wantedto move from there into content
marketing?
What, what made that shift?

I have always considered myself a writer.
I was an English major incollege.
But at the time that Igraduated, writing did not seem
like a career.
It seemed like you could maybeget a low paying job at a
newspaper or you could publish abook and that was kind of it,
uh, at least as far as I couldtell.

(03:37):
So I didn't really considerwriting as the place that I
could go.
You know, I wanted the family, Iwanted some stability, so I
never really thought about it.
Then in late 2020, when Istarted thinking about leaving
my job and wondering, what elsecould I do?
Could I do something different?

(03:58):
Somehow in my job search, Itripped across content
marketing.
I truly did not know that was acareer.
I didn't know that companieshired writers and paid them to
write things for their blog orwrite eBooks or white papers and
whatnot.
And so, um, I got a jobfreelancing for a content agency

(04:20):
and I did that alongside mycorporate job for about three
months so that I could build upa portfolio showing people that
I could write and that led to afull time job in early 2021.
And simultaneously, I wasoffered a job writing for a
magazine.
So I did some journalism aswell.
But yeah, that's, it's justalways been part of my life is

(04:44):
writing.
And so now I do itprofessionally.

In, that content writing, did they have a system
in place that, that's helpfulfor you today?
Or did you just have to go inand do your thing?

So, you know, when I took the job freelancing
alongside, um, alongside mycorporate job, I literally knew
nothing about content marketing.
I didn't know how to structure ablog post in a way that people
would read it, but the agencyworked with hundreds of
freelancers and had a veryspecific structure that

(05:16):
freelancers needed to follow forevery single post we submitted.
That taught me the basics of, ofhow to write for an online
audience and how to add headersand keywords and things like
that, that are necessary forcontent marketing.
Um, so I was really learning onthe fly, but that was enough to
get me to an agency, where Ilearned a little bit more.

(05:38):
Plus was working with an editorwho could give feedback on
things I was writing.

So how was that working with an editor?
Because most of us who have towrite our own articles don't
have editors.
So did you find that useful aswell?

I found the editor at the magazine that I
worked at very helpful becausethese were happening
simultaneously.
I was at this marketing agencyand I was at, um, I was writing
for a magazine.
The magazine editor was reallygreat.
And journalism is a muchdifferent style, obviously, than
content marketing, but she gavevery constructive and very
helpful feedback and reallyencouraged me to develop the

(06:14):
skill set.
I think, um, far more than I gotat the agency itself.
So, uh, that was probably thebest experience I had with an
editor.

So, all of that sounds like really good
experience for running your ownbusiness.
Um, because one of the biggestissues is, you know, we've got
to market ourselves.
And, um, and I don't know if Isaid, I run a marketing services
company.
So I look after the marketing ofseveral, well, about 15 clients
and do all their websites andkeep things up to date.

(06:44):
But, you know, a lot of peoplehave got no idea about the
marketing.
I would assume that you knowsomething about the financials
of running a business, havingbeen in fintech.
So let's talk a little bit aboutbeing a solopreneur, which is
the word you use.
So what made you decide that youcould survive as a solopreneur?

I honestly wasn't sure I could, um, but it
not only was it the financialexperience, but because my last
role at that company was on theexecutive team.
I was part, I, you know, Imanaged other people.
I was part of decision makingfor the business.
I was part of, business strategylooking out for the entire year,
things like that.

(07:25):
So that part I was verycomfortable with.
And also, um, because it was asmall company, I was used to
kind of using tools and thingsto help me get my job done.
So I actually wasn't worriedabout that part.
The, the, the business aspect ofrunning a business.
For me, it was more, can I findclients and work?

(07:45):
And, and that's where themarketing piece comes in, right?
And, um, that I had to marketmyself.
And so when I, um, left amarketing agency in late 2022,
I, I told my husband, I'm goingto give it six months.
Can I turn this into a businesson my own in six months?
If not, I will go find anotherjob.

(08:07):
And here I am now almost twomore years later, business is
doing very well and I can't seemyself going back to working for
an employer.

Okay, so how did you find those first clients?

So I don't know why, but when I left
FinTech, I started posting onLinkedIn.
I think a little bit, but not,not in any type of self
promotional way.
I think it was more of just, Ihad this long career.
I was connected to so manypeople.
I wanted to maybe just give themupdates on what I was doing now.

(08:40):
And so I got in this habit ofposting something every week,
just about what was going on inmy new career.
Once a week became twice a week.
And then somewhere about a yearlater, I thought maybe at some
point I'm going to go out on myown.
And if I do, probably a personalbrand would help.
It was, you know, I observedother people and especially

(09:03):
other people who were selfemployed.
And I thought if people know whoI am, it's going to be easier to
get clients, than to cold emailpeople or cold DM people on
LinkedIn.
So I really stepped up my gameof building a personal brand,
even though I didn't have aspecific idea of when I might go

(09:25):
out on my own.
But I thought whenever I'm readyto make that leap, this will be
helpful.
So that was the, um, thestrategy that I took.
Uh, to make it easier to getclients.
So when I finally made theannouncement and said, Hey, I'm
open to freelance work, I hadpeople come in to me.

(09:45):
And I'd been maintaining a fewfreelance clients on the side,
even though I was working for anagency, but they had all been
direct referrals and people thatI knew.
This was my first time going outto people that I really didn't
know and trying to get work.

So you're talking about personal branding.
Can you explain what you mean bythat?
And how you went about creatingthat personal brand.

I mean, you know, I find the term a little
bit cringe, but that's the termthat everybody uses.
And it's, it's positioningyourself out in the world in a
public facing way.
Um, so that people kind of knowwho you are and either associate
you with maybe a specificpersonality, a specific style,

(10:27):
um, you know, Um, I share otherthings I've written outside of
client work to kind ofdemonstrate, you know, I, I can
do this.
I share work I've done forclients.
And so it's, it's just adifferent approach than trying
to use, you know, cold outreachtechniques.
And some people do both.
Um, a cold outreach to mesounded like the worst thing

(10:49):
ever.
I just had no interest in doingthat.
It's not comfortable for me.
Um, and so I thought the more Iput myself out there and
establish this is who I am andthis is what I do, the more
people are going to come to me.
Um, and at this point, two yearslater, all of my, all of my work
is inbound.
I don't have to do any outreach.

That's pretty good.
So, okay, well, let's talk aboutyour business.
Tell me, is it a personal namebusiness, or did you give it a
name?
And What do you actually do inthe business?

I, I gave it a legal name, because in the, in
the U.
S.
I established a, uh, LLC, alimited liability company.
So ABY Creative, my initials.
Um, that's just, what's on mycontracts, but basically I
operate under myself when I'mdoing client work.
So that is mostly writing forfinancial technology companies

(11:44):
because it is a very nicheindustry.
Not a lot of freelancersunderstand it and can write
about it correctly and in a waythat makes sense for the
audience.
So that's most of my business.
I also create resources forother freelancers, small
business owners, andsolopreneurs.
That side of the business I calltinkering with ideas because I

(12:06):
like to tinker with tools.
I'm always playing around withdifferent tools and automation.
And so I have a newsletter, Icreate tutorials.
I create videos and things likethat trying to help other people
who like to do that type ofthing or they're interested in
it and helping them figure outhow to get started or maybe
solve a particular workflow thatthey're trying to do or figure

(12:30):
out how to get started withautomation.
So that is just a separatesomething I do because I enjoy
doing it.

Okay.
So one part of your business iswriting for, uh, commercial
organizations.
And the other one is helpingsolopreneurs or small business
people.
So when we talk aboutsolopreneur, we're talking about
one person and small businessmight have several, with
automation.
So let's just have a little talkabout, you mentioned apps.

(12:59):
and automation.
Let's have a little chat aboutthat because sometimes it's a
bit hard to get your head aroundit.
What do we mean by that?

So by automation, um, I mean, apps
could be anything.
It could be an app on yourphone, could be an app on the
web.
Um, but basically, you know,anything that you're using,
piece of technology to help getsomething done.
And most apps have like aspecific purpose.
There are some like multipurpose apps or they try to do
everything, but, you know, it'shelping you solve like a

(13:27):
specific thing that makes yourlife easier in some way.
Automation happens when you'retrying to connect two different
apps together because um, maybeyou're doing something starting
something in one and finishingit in the other and you have to
like re key some type some stuffin again.
Automation could move thingsfrom point A to point B.

(13:50):
Automation can also happenwithin an app.
Sometimes apps have their own,um, ways to build automation
within it so that you're notdoing so many clicks, not doing
so many things manually.
And that happens when there's avery defined, if this happens,
do this other thing, whetherthat's in the app or between

(14:11):
apps or between 15 apps.
You know, if you have somethingreally complicated going on.
Um, so that's kind of what Italk about is how to make your
life easier through apps, tools,automation.

Okay, let's start talking about some of those apps
then.
So what's a, for example, ifyou're a solopreneur, I guess a
lot of people might have anonline billing system or they
might have an accountingprogram.
So let's start off with thebasics well, for yourself even,
when you set yourself up, sowhat basic apps do you use?

(14:46):
And then let's talk about someof the automations, and I'm
assuming if we look at this interms of other people who are
solopreneurs might be able touse as well, similar.

Yeah, so here's a really easy one.
I mean, not necessarily easy.
It's multi step, but easy toconceptually understand.
When I bring on a new client,for example, I have an
automation set up thatautomatically saves the contract
to my Google Drive.
That's just based on email comesin, PDF attached, comes from

(15:18):
this signature platform I use.
And so it just knows, based onthat criteria, move this over
into my Google Drive.
So, easy one.
When a new client comes in, Ineed to keep track of them,
right?
So, I use Airtable, which islike an online database.
That is where I centralize allof my work.

(15:39):
So when I add the new client toAirtable, you know, I'll put in
the name of the company, thename of the primary contact,
I'll put in some details aboutthe company.
Once I do that, automationhappens and one adds the client
to QuickBooks, my accountingtool so I don't have to rekey
all of that over.
I already did it once.
I don't need to do it again.
So it moves the data over intoQuickBooks.

(16:00):
And then another thing it doesimmediately is it automatically
adds five folders to my GoogleDrive for that client.
Every single client, I give themthe same five folders.
It's just how I organize mywork.
If I didn't have that automated,I'd have to do that every single
time.
Right click, add folder, rightclick, add folder.
I could make a mistake.
I could forget to do it.

(16:20):
And so, the automation is justdoing that for me.
So all I'm doing is just fillingout, you know, one time in
Airtable, just adding theclient.
And then it's doing these otherthings behind the scenes.

That's pretty neat.
Because, uh, yeah, setting upthose things manually can be a
pain.
Um, so.
When you talked about setting upthose five folders, what do you
mean by that?
What sort of, what labels do youput on those?

So the first folder is for any agreements, so
the contract itself.
I also have a couple clientsthat where there's multiple
contracts over time, so that'sthe first one.
Uh, the second one is fordrafts, so that's my version of
drafting.
And there's actually a subfolderin that one for the brief that I
get from the client telling mewhat to do.

(17:05):
The next folder is forcollaboration.
So that is shared with theclient.
So once I'm done with my draft,copy it over.
That's where the client and Iwork together.
The next one is for resources.
So my clients might give me acopy of their style guide, or
they might give me some internalmessaging documents, or maybe I

(17:25):
downloaded a PDF dated researchreport on the internet.
I don't want to, you know, Ineed to put it somewhere.
So it's just anything related toworking with the client.
And then my last folder is forinterview transcripts because I
do a lot of interviewing, um,and talking to subject matter
experts with the client or withtheir customers, um, or for some
of the journalism work I do.

(17:46):
So it's just a spot to putspecifically interview
transcripts.

That's pretty well organized.
Okay, so that's setting up aclient.
What about some of the otherapps that you might use to do
your, your, your daily work?
Are you using AI as well?

I am.

So let's, let's talk about apps and then we can
have a chat about AI as well.

So here's a really, a similar one, um, with
just repetitive steps thathappen every time I do work.
So a client gives me a brief,um, that says, here's what we
would like you to write.
And every client uses their ownformat, but they usually send me
a Google doc.
And so then I add thedeliverable to Airtable.

(18:26):
Basically, what's the workingtitle, copy of the brief, what's
the word count, you know, thatthey're looking for, things like
that.
So I add it to Airtable.
Once I do that, automation runsin the background and
automatically adds a Google Docto the client's folder using a
template that I have set up.

(18:47):
So every single client, everysingle deliverable, same
template, same organization.
I'm not manually copying itover.
I'm not manually, um, putting itin the right spot.
It's doing that for me.
And it automatically adds what'scalled a card to Trello, which
is my project management tool.
So then I work in Trello, andthat's how I kind of move

(19:10):
through the different stages ofthe writing process.
Again, that's all happeningautomatically.
And that's how I also keep trackof when are things due?
What's my bandwidth?
All that comes from working inproject management in trello.
I'm a former product manager.
I had to be organized earlier inmy life.

So you've obviously been using this
technology for a while becauseit sounds like you're very
comfortable with it, and that'sthe problem with a lot of, say,
solopreneurs, they've worked fora big company, they've retired
or they've decided to go soloand they don't have an IT
department anymore.
So either they've got to gettheir head around this or
they've got to hire somebody tohelp set it up.

(19:53):
Sounds like using Airtable is afairly good way to ground
everything.

Yeah.
And I think, you know, when Italk to people, they say, where
do I get started?
And I give an example, like whatI just gave.
That is a multi step automationI say, start with something so
simple.
Like, let's say you use Calendlyfor scheduling.
You could set up so manyautomations with Calendly to

(20:21):
create a project.
Let's say you go directly frombooking to a project.
If somebody books with me, addthis to my project management
tool.
If somebody books with me, addthis to my task list.
Those are really simple, likeone step pieces that you're
probably just doing every timeand you know what the steps are.
You know, that when that bookinghappens, you have to create a

(20:43):
task to follow up on it orwhatever that is.
And so I say, start there.
Don't start with my 17 stepexample, which is what it
actually is to, you know, get adeliverable going for a client.

So when you say the automations, um, are you
talking about Zapier?
Yep.
That's, that's, that's, there,there are a few on the market.
Um, Zapier's one, there'sanother one called Make, there's
another one called.
If This Then That, I F T T T.
Zapier is just the one that Istarted using a long time ago,
back when I worked at a techcompany and it's just what I'm

(21:19):
comfortable with.
And so that's my tool of choiceto make all this happen.
So with those, obviously withZapier, there is a bit of a
learning curve.
I've only just, trialled itrecently and trying to figure
out some simple zaps.
What do they need to know aboutZapier to really use it?
Or should, you know, if it's toocomplicated, should they hire

(21:39):
you?

I don't know about hiring me.
Well, I, I do work with people,but I'm more, help them figure
out what to do and then tellthem to go hire somebody else.
You can set that up becausethere is quite a bit involved
with usernames and passwords andgetting logins.
And I just don't want to dealwith that.
So, uh, there are people who aremore equipped for that type of
thing than me.
But, what I tell people is,Zapier has a ton of content.

(22:05):
They are like a content machine.
And so they have a ton ofwritten tutorials written by
real life people.
I even, I write for Zapiermyself.
I'm on their blog, um, sayinghere's exactly how to set this
up.
Here's screenshots that show youhow to do it.
Um, they've also got a ton ofapp specific kind of like
recipes.

(22:25):
So if you typed in Calendly, youcould say, Oh, here's an idea of
connect Calendly to a Googlesheet.
Connect Calendly to Todoist,which is a to-do app, connect
Calendly to Trello.
And so kind of show you likeways that you could use it and
you, and you look and you think,oh, I get it.
Yes, I use both of those apps.

(22:46):
How could I use those together?

So really what you're saying is you've really
got to think about your businessand the repetitive stuff you do
and save yourself time byfinding some way to automate it,
like using Zapier.
So you actually helped themdesign the system and all the
flows and then say, okay, youneed to find somebody who will
actually set this up for you.

(23:10):
What's that somebody called?

So Zapier on their website and probably these
others also, they have likelists of consultants.
Some who maybe are solo, somewho have a company, but, and
some of them are certified.
Like they'll say, I am a Zapierexpert.
And that's where probably I fallshort is I have not worked with
every tool on the planet, nor doI want to.

(23:34):
And so I'll say, here's how theflow works.
Now go find somebody who's,who's worked with your specific
tools who could help you figurethat out.
Um, And do the technical setupfor those.
But yeah, there are consultantsthat can do that type of thing
and work with you.
Um, to get that set up.

So it sounds like, you know, what I'm hearing
is you're more like anarchitect.
You'll help design a system thenthey've got to hire the builder.

Yeah, I guess that's a very good way of
putting it.
Um, yes I I like to help peoplekind of talk through because
i've i've been on i've seen theother side of that also where
the builder doesn't conceptuallyknow what to do like that if you
tell them they'll do it, butthey're not necessarily They're
not necessarily equipped to kindof help you figure out the
design piece.

(24:23):
They're just on the executionside.
So that's kind of where I willkind of do some one on one stuff
and say, hey, tell me, give mean example of something you're
doing today.
And they're like, Oh, okay, thisis what you're doing.
This is what you could be doing.
This is what, how it could beautomated and kind of write that
up.
And then they could take thatinformation and go to somebody
who can set it up for them.

Now that sounds like a really important job.
So, but it's, it's better thanthe doing because you can get
bogged down in the doing, but inthe designing, that's the smart
stuff.

And I, you know, I did, um, a while ago, I
did try working with a couple ofpeople on the actual doing and,
um, for me, it just got, it gottoo in the weeds with like how
the tool worked and how they hadit configured.
And it was a ton of back andforth.
And specifically for me, withthe writing work I do, that was
not a good fit.

(25:14):
I wasn't, I can't, um, I'm veryheads down when I'm working on
my other side of my business,the client stuff.
And so it's kind of like Ineeded to come in, help you
figure that piece out and thenbe done, you know, and move on
to something else.

Yeah.
I guess the thing I'm worriedabout is yes, if somebody, um,
we call it Jerry building that,you know, it's, it's not quite
legal and it's got a bit hereand a bit there, it could be
quite messy, but gettingsomebody who's really good at
doing the build means it's goingto be clean because I remember
one of my son's cousins is amarine engineer and he showed me

(25:52):
a picture of the rewiring he didfor a boat, a fairly large boat
obviously.
And, uh, Originally, it was justa mess of wires everywhere
hanging down, and then he showedme all the clean, beautiful,
flowing wiring system that heset up afterwards.
So what are some of the otherapps?
So we just talked about theorganization of you get a

(26:13):
booking on a calendar, can setup things.
You've got a new client and youcan set up all the folders.
And you mentioned from yourAirtable to set up a new account
client.
What are some of the other appsthat are helpful in their
business that they can alsomaybe automate?

So in addition to Trello, which I use
for project management.
I also use Todoist for tasks andyou know, there are all in one
apps that can kind of do both.
I prefer to keep them separateand um, I also use Todoist for
personal.
Like I keep work and personaltasks together and Todoist is

(26:50):
really good at recurring tasks,like things that you have to do
every month, things like that.
So um, So for Todoist, I have anautomation setup, uh, with Siri
on my phone that if I tell Sirilike, hey New item.
And then I just speak what Ineed to do in the background

(27:10):
Zapier picks it up and puts iton my to do list.
So, I just don't like the builtin one on my iPhone.
I just don't think it's veryrobust.
I prefer to do is this got a lotmore that I can do with it.
Um, and I needed a way to kindof walk around and be able to
capture, I'm busy, I have threekids.
And so it's like, oh, I have toschedule a dentist appointment

(27:32):
or something like that.
Rather than forget about it,especially if I'm not near my
computer, I'll just say, HeySiri, and it's probably like,
Oh, yep.
She, she heard me.
And she, my phone just, she litup, and say, you know, new item.
And then I just speak that.
And in the background, theautomation is picking that up
and adding it to my to do list.
And whether it's work, whetherit's personal, whatever, I don't

(27:55):
lose that train of thought.

So we've talked about several things there
already.
How do you come across each ofthese new ones?
How did you think, okay, I canuse Siri to do this and do that?

So that was kind of, that one was kind of an
accident.
I used to use Alexa.
And now my Alexa device isgonna, or if you have one,
they're gonna start talking tome.
Yeah.
I used to use the Amazon devicethat's in my house.
And, when I first got the deviceand I was a really early
adopter, I had like the oldtower that isn't even sold
anymore, but I was justscrolling through and looking at

(28:28):
what what different apps areavailable.
And I saw that Todoist was oneof them.
And so I was like, this isamazing.
I can, I can say, Hey, Hey,Alexa, can you add this to my to
do list?
And it worked.
It was beautiful.
And so it would justautomatically add it.
Amazon stopped supporting thatintegration.
And, uh, like just earlier thisyear, after I'd been using it

(28:51):
for a long time.
So I had to find a replacementand I was actually complaining
about it on threads.
And a friend of mine said, Hey,I bet you could do this with
Siri.
And he sent me a blog post fromZapier that explained exactly
how to set it up because I'dnever set anything up with Siri
before.
And so I just followed the stepsin the blog post.

(29:13):
I'm like, cool, that worked.
So it was kind of justoriginally, it was just, you
know, kind of scrolling throughand seeing what was available.
And then that led to, okay, nowI need to set this up again in a
different way because what I wasdoing stopped working.

So how old are your children?

My children are 15, 12 and 7.

So, so you've got to keep them organized.
You've got to organize abusiness.
You have to be super organized.

That is my superpower, um, is organization.
I have to, yeah, you're right.
I have to like, and, and evenwhen I was working in corporate
I was working for a smallcompany and lots of hats.
As you know anybody who's workedfor a small company, knows.
Was responsible for a lot.
I was on the executive team andthe only product manager.
So.
I had to figure out ways to maketools work for me so that I

(30:03):
didn't drop the ball onanything.
And a lot of that is gettingthings written down, getting
them on lists, getting them intools, getting them in apps that
I check all the time so that Idon't have to hold everything in
my brain because otherwise Ipromise you I'd forget.
If I had to, something wouldfall out.

Actually, that's a really good point.
Yeah.
We call that the extended brainis, uh, is moving stuff out of
your head so you don't losethem.
Now you mentioned, Siri, I'vegot a Google device just sitting
there that controls my airconditioning to keep me nice and
warm and cool in summer.
And I have got, Alexa up overthere.

(30:39):
It does things as well.
Do you use those to automateyour home as well?

I don't have it automated, but my thermostat
is connected to my Alexa deviceand I could adjust it from
there.
I've got it set on like timer,you know, timers and stuff.
I do use smart plugs and smartlight bulbs.
So in my office in the morning,I come in and say, Alexa, turn
on the lights.
And then they all come up andsome of them are on timers, so
they just turn on.

(31:05):
So when I go down to get mycoffee, I don't fall over
because it's dark.
The lights have turned on atlike 4 in the morning, so that
it's already there and ready forme.

Not seriously about four in the morning, are
you?

I do get up at four in the morning.

How come?

It's a, it was a bit of a pandemic
leftover.
Our schools were closed hereand, um, my kids were home
during the day and it was verydifficult to get anything done.
And so I started just waking upearly, to have this focused,
well, quiet and focused worktime.
And then I go to bed reallyearly.
I like sleep, so I'm not, I'mnot sacrificing sleep.

(31:40):
Um, but I just started this,this practice of getting up
early, getting my work donebecause the day would be so
crazy.
And.
I found that I really liked it.
I liked the silence of themorning.
I've kind of always been amorning person and it wasn't
like that much earlier.
I was probably already gettingup at like five or five thirty.
But I go to bed at like eightthirty.
So it's, I'm still getting tosleep.

(32:02):
It's just my, my schedule is alittle bit shifted compared to
other people.

Yeah, I think you are a super mum.
So are your kids organised likeyou are?

They are.
Um, they are.
And I don't necessarily thinkI've taught them that.
DNA or something, I'm not sure.
Um, they are, I'm lucky, youknow, I haven't, they kind of do
their homework and keep track oftheir stuff and I don't have to
push them too hard unless they,you know, unless it's like
laundry and they don't want to.

(32:35):
Otherwise, they do seem to kindof all be pretty organized.

I think that's pretty good.
You must be very proud of them.

am.

Okay, so obviously you're giving some
ideas about your typical daystarting fairly early.
So, what does a typical day looklike for you?

So I'll usually get up, and I've got,
you know, probably about an hourand a half to two hours before
anybody else in the house stirsand I will do my own writing or
work for my tinkering withideas, my solopreneur type of
work.
So that might be writing a postfor my blog.

(33:15):
It might be writing mynewsletter.
I'm on Substack.
And so it's that type of workthat's unrelated to client work.
So that's, that's my time.
But then this, then there's likethis two hour parade of getting
the kids out the door because,my kids are in three different
schools this year because oftheir ages.
So it's staggered.

(33:37):
And when the bus comes, and sothis rotation of breakfast and
then getting ready to get it outthe door.
So I don't sit back down untilabout eight thirty or so.
And then, and then I'm doingclient work.
And so, um, it might be, I, Ihave to interview people a lot.
I take meetings with prospectiveclients or just people that I

(33:59):
know.
Um, and then I usually will havesome very heads down focused
writing time.
I try to wrap up the day prettyearly.
My youngest gets off the bus atfour in the afternoon.
But I also am flexible that, youknow, if something went
completely amok during the dayand I didn't get done what I

(34:19):
needed to, I will, I'll justwork on it in the evening if I
have to, but rinse and repeatevery day.

One of the big issues I have, and it might be
because I'm a bit older, and um,is actually getting up and
moving more.
Because the danger of workingfor yourself is you can be in
your seat for several hours.
And uh, I know last night I hadto finish something and I think
I was, I was, I was at it for anhour and a half and I just felt

(34:47):
so stiff and I hadn't got out ofthe seat.
And that's one of the biggestdangers of working for yourself
is that we can be, we don't getto move much.
We don't get outside even.
So do you make breaks or getoutside?

I do.
So my husband also works fromhome.
So we're, we're both here duringthe day and we do try to take
walks together in ourneighborhood, at least weather
permitting.
It's going to start getting coldpretty soon in our area.
But we do try to walk.
Uh, so we went for a walk today,just walked around for about 25
minutes and then came back in.
And I also take a pretty longBreak in the middle of the day.

(35:23):
I stop, I eat lunch here athome, and then I take a nap.
I like sleep and I got up early.
So that's kind of like a brainbreak.
I'm not just sitting at mycomputer.
I mean, I'm not outside, but I'mnot sitting either.
So that's also built into myday.

The other thing I'm thinking about too is you've
got to learn new stuff too.
So you, you, you've got to doyour writing.
You've got to do your marketingin the morning and stuff like
that.
You're doing your client work.
You're getting some time foryourself.
Where do you find time to do newlearning or courses and how do
you make the time for that?

So, I am a really avid podcast listener.
I will listen to podcasts allthe time.
I do that in the car.
Like if I'm driving anywhere,like every Friday morning is my
grocery shopping time, likeevery single, like we're out of
food by that point.
I have to go grocery shoppingand I go to two different
stores.
And so by the time I, and I'm ina suburb of Chicago, so it's not

(36:23):
a small area.
So by the time I do all of that,it's probably at least an hour
or more in the car.
So, you know, I will listen toone or two podcasts.
I will listen, basically, if Idrive anywhere during the week,
if it's something like a videocourse or things, I'll do that
in the evening.
If I do any because I'm justtired like, I can't do anything

(36:46):
else.
Like there's nothing elseproductive going to come out of
me, but I could maybe watch andabsorb.
Um, but my favorite thing isreally listening to podcasts and
I love doing that.
And most of them are, um, Iwould say learning related, you
know, related to the field I'min, related to being a
solopreneur.
Um, I know a lot of peoplelisten to podcasts as, you know,
escapism.

(37:07):
They'll listen to like truecrime or things like that.
And more power to them.
Do not listen to podcasts if youneed, if you need the break
time.
But for me, that's my learningtime.

Any particular podcasts you like?

Yeah.
Yep.
So I like Hard Fork by the NewYork Times.
It's a tech podcast.
And so it's two tech reporters.
One of them's independent.
One of them works for the NewYork Times.
Just kind of talking about thetech news of the week.
I like, uh, Creator Science byJay Klaus.
He is an online creator, and hasbeen working for himself for

(37:39):
several years.
So he kind of talks about, like,the business of running, you
know, creating content.
And I like Amy Porterfield,Online Marketing Made Easy.
And so she talks a lot aboutthings like marketing yourself,
selling digital products,selling courses and things like
that, which I'm also interestedin.

One I've been listening to is The Automators.
I don't know if you've comeacross that one.

I'll have to look it

Oh, they're amazing.
They talk about apps andautomation as an American chap
and an English lady.
I think he's a retired lawyer.
And she works in tech.
It's quite fascinating.
Um, I've just got to stop buyingall the apps that they talk
about.

Shiny object.
Right.

oh, I'm, I'm shocking with that.
See the problem is I've got halfa dozen that I've just bought.
Now I've got to learn how to usethem.
Plus all the other courses thatI've bought over the years that
I haven't got around to startingyet.
But I was listening to one lastnight and as I was falling
asleep, I thought, I just cannotlisten anymore.
Um, You know, it's full on beinga solopreneur, working for
yourself, because there are alot of things that you've got to

(38:42):
do in the day.
So, how do you figure out whattakes priority?

My client work kind of has to because if I
don't work, I don't get paid.
So, um, that, that has to takepriority.
But the way that I've structuredmy week is I really only do
client work three or four days aweek, so that I have, kind of
spill over time.
Like if something justcompletely went poorly during

(39:07):
the week, I could work on Fridayor something like that.
But the, the client work has totake priority.
Being a mom has to takepriority.
Like my kids, you know, dependon me.
um, for food, getting to school,um, driving them around, I'm
their chauffeur, I'm their ATM.
I'm all kinds of things forthem.
So, um, you know, I, I have tokind of do those things for my

(39:28):
kids, but you know, uh, I dohave a spouse that works from
home as well.
So we are able to juggle some ofthose things.
But his is a lot less flexiblethan mine.
So a lot of it does fall to meto kind of manage.
And then.
After that, it's all of these,you know, other things that I
like to create and I like to do.

(39:48):
And I would call them, you know,I, I, I do earn money from them.
I sell products and things likethat, but I do it because that's
the work that I enjoy.
So, yeah.
Yes, it's part of my business,but it's also kind of like a
hobby if I can, you know, it's afashion project and so by by
that that's kind of how I fit itin is that's enjoying I enjoy
that work a lot And so that'skind of what motivates me to

(40:11):
keep doing it, but I'm notwilling to give up sleep I like
sleep.
I like sleep a lot.
I like naps.
And so, I'm not the type ofperson who could put in, like, a
14 hour day to get everythingdone.
I just can't.
Like, I would, I would fallasleep.
I'm exhausted by the end of theday.
So, if the day gets long, then,yeah, these other things I do,

(40:32):
these side things, those thatare, unfortunately, fall to the
bottom of the priority list.

It sounds like you've really got this
organized, I think.
But, but that comes withexperience, and I think that
comes with age, and probablymore so having children, because
you can see how organizationreally helps there.
Let's just have a little talkabout AI then.
How do you approach AI, and whatdo you think about it?

So, you know, in ChatGPT in particular,
because that's when peoplereally started paying attention,
you know, at first, I wasn'toverly impressed with the
output.
The models have gotten better.
But what I've realized is thatit works, AI works well for me
when I'm using my own content asa starting point.
So, what I do is combine AI withautomation to transform my own

(41:19):
content.
Here's what I mean by that.
So, let's say I start with ablog post that I wrote for my
own blog, and I want to turnthat into social posts for
LinkedIn, based on like the keyideas.
So before I would just read the,you know, after I publish it, I
read the post, I write, I writethe LinkedIn posts.
Now I'm using generative AI inthe middle and I'm saying

(41:44):
ChatGPT, hey, you pull out thebest ideas in my words.
And now I'm just tweaking itbefore I publish it on LinkedIn.
And I have tons of instructions,like, this is my tone.
Here's other examples of whatI've written.
Match this, mirror this, copythis style.
So that way the editing is notnon existent.

(42:05):
It's never perfect, but it'sminimal because it's starting
with my work and it's based onwhat I have published before.
And that's all automated.
So a new blog post is published.
Zapier picks it up,automatically runs it through
ChatsGPT, automatically adds itto Trello.
And then I go into Trello whenI'm ready to schedule my

(42:26):
content.
I just say, here's what comesnext.
And then edit and schedule them.

That's pretty good.
Again, it's well thought out.
I didn't realise you couldautomate ChatGPT.

Yeah, uh, ChatGPT and Claude and Gemini
for sure I think all work withZapier.
So whatever tool you like andchoose, um, it'll work.
You just have to basically, aspart of your automation, as part
of your Zap, there's a placewhere you can put in
instructions just like you wouldif you were working with ChatGPT

(42:57):
on its own, but instead it'slike embedded in this workflow.
So, I've got tons of similar,like, this'll be another
example.
When this podcast publishes, Iwill run it through an
automation that, um, says lookat only what I say.
Look at my half of theconversation, pull out the key
points.

(43:17):
And then I'll turn those intofuture LinkedIn posts, text,
text posts.
Or I might say, look only at myhalf of the conversation and
create an outline for futureblog posts and expand on it and
turn it into something else.
So, I don't let any of mycontent go to waste.
It's gotta, if I took the timeto like create something, I've
got to reuse it, like bunch ofdifferent ways.

Now that's a very important point about reusing.
Do you, do you use an automationto send out your posts, um, to
wherever you send them?

Sort of, so I use buffer to schedule all of my
content.
You know, if I start with a blogpost and run it through ChatGPT,
I do not send it directly tobuffer.
I want to take like an editingstep in there and, um, uh,
planning.
And so I send it to Trello,because I'm planning other types
of, I mean, that's all of mycontent planning, including the

(44:09):
blog posts I want to write, mysub stack.
So everything is in there.
So no, I don't automatically setit, it has a stopping point in
Trello first, but I do have anautomation set up that does
automate that.
And what that one looks like isI start with a LinkedIn text
post.
And once it publishes, throughbuffer, it runs through ChatGPT

(44:33):
and reformats it as a post forthreads.
Because the style on threads isdifferent.
The vibe is different.
The character count isdifferent.
It's shorter.
And so, um, it runs throughChatGPT and it reformats the
post.
And then it sends it right backto Buffer, but for my threads
profile.
I still edit it, but I stilllook at it before I post it up,

(44:56):
send it out.
But There's no reason for it tomake a pit stop at Trello in
that place.
So in that case, yes, it isgoing right back to social media
scheduling.
I just need to review it, tweakit, and then send it out.
Um,

Do you use ChatGPT anything else apart from
your writing?

Not really.
It's all writing related.
I use Midjourney to createimages for my blog post.
I am not that type of creativeperson.
I'm not a visual person.
So I will feed like my blog postin a ChatGPT and say, create a
Midjourney prompt based on,based on this.

(45:34):
And then it will come up with aprompt for me.
And then I will take that promptand put it in a mid journey and
see what kind of output it doesand then tweak it from there.
But rather than like me tryingto like, come up with what type
of image should go with his blogposts.
It's doing that.
So it's not directly related tomy writing, but it's still based
on my writing.
Um, but otherwise not really.

(45:56):
Although my, my husband is asoftware engineer and he uses
ChatGPT for coding type relatedthings.
His use cases are so completelydifferent than mine.
He'll tell me things.
I'm like, I have no idea whatyou are talking about.
Like, that's just completelyopposite of how I do it.

Well, this has been an amazing conversation.
You are a super organizedperson, but you, you are
technically super organized aswell.
So it's been a fantasticconversation.
Is there anything else you wouldlike to mention, that people
should hear about?

Um, I, I don't think so.
You know, I think automation andtools and apps can be super
intimidating.
And I would say the best way toget ideas is to find some, find
a source that can give youideas.
So you mentioned a podcast thatyou listen to.
I have a newsletter that I tryto give people ideas or, or go

(46:51):
on Zapier's blog and readthings.
And that's the way to reallyspark ideas.
I think it's really hard to kindof envision what's possible,
when you don't know what'spossible.
So you kind of have to findthose resources or follow people
or things like that, who aretalking about these things.
And that's how you'll start tomake, connect the dots and say,
Oh yeah, that's how I can makethis work for me.

Anna, this has been a fantastic conversation.
I really, really enjoyed it.
Anna, how would you like peopleto find you?

So you can go to my landing page is
start.annabyang.com.
Or you can find me on LinkedIn,Anna Burgess Yang.
I am the only one, so it's kindof easy to find me there.
Um, and I talk about all thiskind of stuff.
So, uh, my landing page has gotlinks to, you know, free
resources and my newsletter andall that other stuff, so that's

(47:43):
kind of a good starting point.

So thank you, Anna, for being my guest.

Yeah.
Thank you so much for having me.

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