July 26, 2024 • 45 mins
Ask Nigel Rawlins a question or send feedback, click the link to text me.
In this episode, Nigel Rawlins speaks with Peter Hatherley about the transformative power of AI in digital marketing and business optimization. Important points include the difference between generative and interactive AI, advanced SEO techniques using semantic entities, and the practical applications of AI tools for independent professionals.
Key Topics Discussed:
- Peter Hatherley’s journey from digital marketing to AI
- The development and impact of semantic entities in SEO
- Generative AI vs. interactive AI: Definitions and applications
- Overview of Authored Intelligence products like Semantic Author and Conceptuality
- Practical uses of AI tools for content creation and business strategy
- Overcoming fears and misconceptions about AI
- Future advancements in AI technology and their implications
Mentions
- ExxonMobil
- BNZ
- Pricewaterhouse
- Ethan Mollick
- Authored Intelligence
- Frase
- Gemini 1.5 Pro
- ChatGPT
- Google Bard
- Conceptuality (Authored Intelligence)
- Semantic Author (Authored Intelligence)
- All-In-One Editor (Authored Intelligence)
- Storyline Author GPT (Authored Intelligence)
- Prompt Tag Author
- Suno
Products/Websites Mentioned:
- Authored Intelligence https://authoredintelligence.com/
- ChatGPT https://openai.com/
- Gemini 1.5 Pro https://gemini.google.com/
- Suno https://suno.com/
- Luma https://lumalabs.ai/dream-machine
- Frase https://www.frase.io/
Special Offer Save $50 Conceptuality GPT
please note, prices are in USD
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Nigel Rawlins (00:00):
I'm speaking with Peter Hatherley, the founder of
Authored Intelligence and whatI'd call an amazing expert in AI
and digital marketing.
In this episode, we're going todive into the transformative
power of AI in digital marketingand business optimization.
And Peter's going to share hisinsights on interactive AI,
advanced SEO techniques andpractical applications of AI
(00:24):
tools for the independentprofessional.
Whether you're looking toimprove your digital strategy,
or gain some new perspectives onhow you can use AI for business.
This episode is packed withvaluable insights.
So listen up, get ready.
And get inspired.
Peter, welcome to theWisepreneurs podcast.
(00:44):
Can you tell us something aboutyourself and where you're from?
Peter Hatherley (00:47):
Hi, Nigel.
Yeah, I'm the founder ofAuthored Intelligence.
It's an AI company.
And it's based in Christchurch,New Zealand, but we have an
international market, and we'vebeen running for around two
years now, so it's been quite aride.
Nigel Rawlins (01:04):
We've got a bit of a time difference, but it's
quite nice for me because weactually started talking at nine
o'clock, so we took 50 minutesbefore we started this.
Peter Hatherley (01:12):
Oh look, the green room was amazing today.
Nigel Rawlins (01:15):
Yes, you could say that.
All right now, but you didn'tjust start off with AI.
Many years ago from the Looks ofit, you started out in digital
marketing, so just tell us alittle bit about that before we
come back to the AI stuff.
Peter Hatherley (01:28):
Yeah, I ran a digital marketing company, I
still do but I'm mainly focusednow on AI, and my clients have
all benefited by the fact thatthey can have access to this as
well.
But I started in multimedia, andI worked for companies like
ExxonMobil, and large companieshere in New Zealand like BNZ,
and Pricewaterhouse was anotherone.
(01:49):
Multimedia was amazing.
I just loved it.
And, I had a graphic background,a musical background.
Everything just fitted for me inthat way.
And, actually, AI is justgetting to that same area right
now.
And they call it multimodalprompting.
And so you can use images toprompt, and then get it to write
stuff about your images or yourvideo.
(02:10):
But anyway, that's where Istarted.
And then, unfortunately, and Isay unfortunately because the
internet came along and you hadgrey screens with little
graphics that were minute.
And we've all seen, we allremember those days.
And, so for me, it was a stepbackwards from the multimedia,
which was just engaging and somuch fun.
(02:31):
And so anyway, I ended upgetting more involved in SEO
over the years, and I justhappened to stumble across a,
what I call my secret sauce,which was a letter pattern that
I found in language that wasable, it just happened one day
that I woke up one morning, andI've been testing this on a site
(02:54):
that we were doing at the time,and all of a sudden it went
straight up to number one.
And then I looked at the othersites that were doing it as
well.
And they all had gone to numberone.
It was just incredible.
And so my question was why,what, was it just these things
that I was using?
Two months later, Google cameout and admitted that they'd put
(03:15):
out an algorithm update calledHummingbird.
And so a lot of people weren'tusing what they call semantic
entities these days.
And I created an algorithm fromthat and was able to optimize
websites and I started doing itwhile I was on G+ and I always
shake my head when it comes toG+ because why they closed it
(03:38):
down is beyond me.
But, I had 20, 000 followers.
G Plus is Google plus.
It was a social media platformthat Google put out.
It was huge.
And but it was huge around thetens.
That was when it was happening.
And anyway I rubbed shoulderswith some of the top SEO people
in the world because they couldsee what was happening and how
(03:59):
it was working.
It was like, when you looked atthe graphs of how it worked
you'd start at a certain pointand maybe they're in position 20
or something like that.
And then it looked, it was likelooking at a picture of a
mountain.
And it would go straight up,within a week or two, it would
just go straight to the top.
And this is because of thisalgorithm I was using.
(04:21):
But anyway then it would get to10.
And then it was like base campon the mountain.
And then you'd have to do alittle bit more, optimization.
And then it would go eventuallyto number one.
But that would normally onlytake about three or four weeks.
That was how quick it was.
And I ended up doing it forpeople like for Seers and, major
companies over in the States.
(04:43):
And we had the same results.
But the difference with AI, andthat was the seed of where I
went into AI I'd create, Icalled them word banks and they
would create this hugeconnection of what are called
entities.
Just trying to explain entitiesbecause not everyone knows what
entities are.
Say if you think of a kitchen, acupboard is an entity, it's
(05:05):
connected to the kitchen.
Spoons are.
The sink is.
Water is.
And so all of those words areconnected.
So when you add all of that intoSEO, you can start to see why
Google thinks it's betterbecause, all of the entities
that are connected to it arementioned and the more subtle
the entities or the ones that myAI can actually pick out, ones
(05:28):
that other people aren't using.
I can just ask it to say whatare the entities they're not
using?
And it would give me a list.
So I add that into the list.
SEO is all about being unique,having unique content.
So anyway, SICE the algorithmwas called SICE and it was a
huge word bank and it would takea lot of work to do it because
(05:49):
you had always up to a thousandin some cases of words to enter
in.
And to me, that was just quitetime consuming, but it had a
huge payback.
And so that's why companies werewilling to do it.
And the sites that I optimizedback in 2012, using this concept
without touching them once eversince, are still in the top
(06:12):
three.
Without an alteration.
Nigel Rawlins (06:15):
That's amazing because the problem that a lot
of new professionals who arecoming out, especially with the
audience, we're talking aboutmarketing here and getting found
on Google, which hopefully willstill exist in the land of AI,
is being found and that's thebiggest problem.
If you've finished your workinglife and you've decided you're
(06:36):
going to continue on as anindependent professional and get
work.
Now, you might have a networkwhere you get work, but you also
need to be found online.
And this is what we're talkingabout with the SEO.
And, we're talking about a wholelot of words there.
We're not saying plonk all thosewords in there because that's
just what we call keywordstuffing.
You're actually talking aboutwriting interesting, relevant
(06:57):
content that will appeal to whowe want to appeal to.
Peter Hatherley (07:01):
The thing is you can entity stuff.
There's nothing against it.
Keyword stuffing is a definiteno.
But entity stuffing isn't even,they can't even determine it
because when you add up all ofthe connections, they all make
sense and the AI does it evenbetter because once I was able
to take those word banks and putthem into the AI, all of a
(07:23):
sudden I had this huge advantagefrom people who were just doing
the baby steps.
I had, something that I coulduse immediately to get an edge.
And one of my major things withmy AI, that they're very
creative.
They're extremely creative.
When I started doing it in 2022,I was working in a Facebook
(07:44):
group called FRASE who had about10, 000 followers and, I was
getting 8, 000 visitors a month,from that alone.
And the sales were justincredible.
But the reason was that itwasn't putting out robotic
stuff.
It was human esque.
My templates have always focusedon making it speak like a human
(08:06):
and you can train it and it'sgot better and better over time.
And now you can even get it toremember things.
So if you want it to speak in acertain style or you want to do
this and you've got your ownunique way of speaking, you can
actually teach it to do it.
It's at that point and that'swhere it's turned from what it's
called generative AI, which isdoing a prompt and then just
(08:26):
clicking the button and gettingsomething out.
Interactive AI is when you'retalking with the machine and
you're going through a process,you're consulting with it, and
it's got to that point that itcan act like a consultant, and
Mentor, a Guide, and a Writer.
It's got all of those extraelements that have come into the
play.
Just over the last six monthsactually, it's really taken off.
Nigel Rawlins (08:50):
Okay.
Let's just step back a bitbecause we talked about prompts
and stuff like that becauseAuthored Intelligence has a
whole range of products thathelp you with that, but let's
just step back.
For people who are listening,basically, whether they're using
a paid AI Claude or ChatGPT, howdo you think most people are
just using AI at the moment?
(09:12):
And then we'll go into whatAuthored Intelligence is and
interactive AI, because we'veprobably jumped a bit there.
Peter Hatherley (09:20):
Jumped under the gun a bit.
Yeah yeah, basically that'sgenerative AI.
And so most people are usingprompts.
So they've either found promptsfrom somewhere or got advice
from a group where they'reshowing prompts.
And they're more of one offconversations.
It's like going into a meetingand then just throwing it on the
table, not saying one word moreand saying, do this.
(09:42):
It treats the AI like a servant.
They're not children.
They understand far more.
I see it as a savant.
So I treat AI slightlydifferently.
And the fact that I can see thatit knows things and I've tested
it out and found out what itknows.
And then I come up with veryconcise instructions that end up
(10:04):
in a conversation.
And as you've got two of myproducts, Conceptuality and
Semantic Author.
And so those are veryinteractive and it'll give you
the rationale of what you'redoing, it'll ask you into it and
invite you in and discuss itwith you.
That's the real shift, is thatmost people are used to using
(10:24):
ChatGPT or Claude.
I must say there's a really newplayer on the market that I'm
really amazed by and I feel thatthey've made a huge leap.
Is Gemini 1.
5 Pro.
And that's the, Google one thatused to be called BART.
But I used to have a joke aboutthat.
I said, it's really bad, but itwas in those days, but it's
(10:45):
actually really good now.
And I've just written a bookusing it, so I know how good it
is.
And again, it's gone to theinteractive stage.
So instead of having promptswhere you just throw everything
at it, The best way to do it isto get it involved, communicate
with it.
It's called chat after all,basically communicate with it,
(11:06):
get feedback, and then hone it.
And you feel so much moreinvolved.
It's so much more satisfying tohave your opinions and your
ideas being amplified by the AI.
And that's how I see it thesedays.
I see it as a co partner, coarchitect probably is a better
(11:27):
word.
And it gets involved in thenitty gritties of, do you really
want this?
Do you want me to change this?
Are you happy with this?
And so there's this interactivething that's going on.
That's what I call interactiveAI.
So most people know AI as agenerative, what is called
generative AI.
And that's giving it a bigprompt and then expecting it to
(11:49):
do the rest.
Nigel Rawlins (11:50):
A lot of people have got to suddenly realize
that, and it depends how muchthey're using at the moment.
If they've just been thinkingabout it, or they've heard about
it, or they're playing with it,they've really got to get in and
play with it, see what it cando.
Ethan Mollick is a I think he'sa professor in America.
He writes about different typesof, people, how they use AI.
(12:11):
One he calls a centaur, which isthat half horse, half man, from
mythology.
And he talks about there's aclear line between the AI and
the person, a division of laborthat the human does this, the AI
does that, or he talks aboutcyborgs, which is a blend of the
machine and the person.
(12:31):
And really the interactive AIyou're talking about sounds like
the cyborg.
And if you're like I'mconstantly in and out of AI all
day.
How do I use this app?
Can you help me rewrite thissentence or give me a
subheading?
And I'm constantly in and out ofit, but from our conversation
before we came online, Irealized I haven't been using it
properly either.
(12:52):
Once you mentioned interactiveAI, I've gone, oh golly, I
didn't realize that I haven'tbeen using it properly.
All right, let's start talkingabout Authored Intelligence and
how you got onto a number ofproducts, which I've purchased
three and use all of them allthe time and haven't been using
properly by the way, since I'vespoken to you.
So let's talk about some ofthose and how they can help
(13:14):
people.
Peter Hatherley (13:15):
Yeah, it was an evolution.
I started with templates onFRASE, and these I grew one by
one, and eventually it ended upbeing 12 templates.
First one was Agency Writer,which was connected to my
background, so it was very easyfor me to write.
And I based that a lot on myexperience with DDB and other
(13:35):
advertising agencies that I'veworked with over the years.
And it was really creative.
Now that's what most people findwith just going to the plain old
vanilla ChatGPT or VanillaClaude.
Is that you'll get vanillaoutput.
You need to have a creativeoutput.
So what these tools did wasbasically take away the need for
(13:57):
the person to develop a promptand then just focus on what they
wanted to write about.
So it took away that step thatmost people have to struggle
with.
And it's, I used to call itprompt block, it wasn't writer's
block, it was prompt block.
And I wrote this, free e book,Speak to the Machine.
And it's now in about, I thinkit's 8th edition or whatever.
(14:18):
But it changed over time.
That was what the problem was.
People didn't understand how tospeak to the machine.
They didn't see it as aconversation.
They saw it like a tool.
And I think that was themistake.
Once you actually realize, it'snot a real person, they're not
sentient beings, but it canmimic what you want.
So if you want it to write likean advertising copywriter, It
(14:39):
will do that for you.
If you want it to act like anSEO expert, it'll do that for
you.
What I've done with theproducts, especially the ones
you've got that was an evolutiontoo.
I'd had these web apps which,won all of the 12 apps that I
developed on FRASE.
I made them web apps, and then Icombined them all together in
what I call the all in oneeditor.
(15:01):
Because one of the big thingsthat I found, as a problem in AI
was yes, you could output it,but where do you edit it?
And it's only just recently thatthey've started to do that.
And that's why I like Gemini Pro1.
5 is because you can actuallyedit your output inside the
machine, which would be reallynice in OpenAI, to be honest.
(15:23):
The thing is we all need toproof.
We all need to edit.
And, most people make themistake of just throwing it out
and not looking at it, notchecking facts and doing all
that.
And talking about facts, there'sthis talk about AI hallucination
and it's a real thing.
And it took me about a year, Itried all of these different
(15:47):
things to stop it doing it, andthen one day, I came up with a,
what I call a prompt tag, thatactually forces it, basically,
to not go and imagine things.
So I'd say, it needs to behistorical, empirical, or
scientific.
You've got to have that proof,otherwise don't say anything
basically.
(16:07):
And so that stopped it doing it.
And that's why these prompt tagsare incredibly powerful and
they're all built into my tools.
The ones that you've got, youcan't do it cause they're on the
custom GPT, but I've got a toolcalled Prompt Tag Author, where
you can create these prompts andthen just click on whatever.
(16:27):
It's got all of the six majorplatforms and you can just click
on it and it will automaticallygo that you just copy it and
then paste it into the tool thatyou've gone to.
So that solved the problem forpeople with the GPTs and it
meant they could leverage all ofthat benefit that had been built
up over the time that I builtthe web apps.
Nigel Rawlins (16:46):
What you're saying is, would you use that
with your products?
Peter Hatherley (16:50):
You can actually go directly to my
products.
Like you can go to, chat, GPT,and you, as you can use custom
GPTs by just using the ampersandsign and it'll just come up.
So very easy to use but it alsogoes directly to another tool of
mine, which is called the All inOne Editor.
These are the 12 apps that I'vedeveloped and that's evolved
(17:12):
into a rewriter.
What I've found is that a lot ofmy subscribers were keen on
rewriting and they like my styleparticularly.
And so that's given rise to thisnew product, which means that
you can edit, you can just pastewherever the outputs come from,
and then you can edit itsentence by sentence, and you
can ask it to actually use onesentence, for instance, and say
(17:37):
output three sentences, soyou've got this real flexibility
with adding stuff.
And it's using the same flavoras the content that you put in
there.
So you don't lose that.
Nigel Rawlins (17:48):
That's the whole point about Authored
Intelligence.
We're talking about writing andand that comes from your SEO
background and it's aboutputting this stuff on the web or
if you're writing articlessomewhere, and what we're
talking about here is to help uswrite more human but also
interesting copy and usingChatTPT to help us with this.
(18:10):
And your products help do itwith different things.
Let's talk about some of theparticular ones.
What's the most popular one?
And then just work through someof those and tell us something
about what they can do forpeople.
Peter Hatherley (18:23):
The most popular without a doubt is
Semantic Author.
And it's mainly because peoplewant to rank and they want to
reach people.
And this is where the semanticentities come in.
And so that gives them the edge.
And so that's all built in underthe surface and it gives the
rationale.
So constantly, whenever you dosomething, you're learning more
(18:43):
about how it works constantly.
It's like a training like amentor that's teaching you how
to use it, not just put out thecontent.
So that's far better.
You come out knowing what you'redoing.
And when you're knowing whatyou're doing, then you can get
more involved in sayingactually, I'd like you to do it
like this, or it'll give you thecreative rationale of why it's
(19:07):
done it.
It's interesting because I justdid an audit on it a few days
ago, and Semantic Author was byfar the most used used GPT that
I've got.
In saying that, ConceptualityConceptuality is the most
creative and in a way, like ourdiscussion today, once people
know what it can do, then itchanges, and that's growing
(19:30):
really well at the moment.
Conceptuality is like a It'slike a virtual ad agency.
So you can come in, you can getthe copywriter, you can get the
marketing expert, you can getthe guy who's planning the
campaigns who wants to talkabout budgets, you can get it to
write video scripts, anythingthat an agency can do, it can
(19:51):
do, including a bit of SEO aswell.
It's not as in depth as SemanticAuthor, but it will do that as
well.
So Conceptuality is, is a reallyfull featured product, that can
do everything as far as anyadvertising work that you want
to do.
Nigel Rawlins (20:09):
So a good workflow there would be is to
use Conceptuality, to helpfigure out what it is you want
to do and maybe help you writethe content.
And then would you put it intoSemantic Author and work your
way through that?
Peter Hatherley (20:23):
That, yeah.
What I tend to do is I finish itoff and my finishing tool is the
All In One Editor.
Because I want to get it into anediting situation.
And so I'll copy and paste itinto the all in one author.
And then if I see a sentencethat I want changed, I'll just
ask it to rewrite that sentence.
(20:44):
Or if it's a paragraph, rewritethe paragraph.
So it's really a finishing tool.
So I tend to do a lot of that inthere.
And Semantic Author as I say, isthe most popular because people
are wanting to rank.
And yet, Conceptuality is themore creative of the two.
Nigel Rawlins (21:04):
Now, one of the things that I'm hoping the
listeners are understanding,especially if you're a one
person business, these become apart of your business.
There's a quote from AndrejKarpathy,"Bits are easier to
work with than atoms." Now inthe past, if you ran a business,
you'd need to hire people, whocould do all this?
(21:25):
Now I do quite a bit ofsubcontracting cause I don't
want to do everything, but beinga one person business.
Are you one person business too?
Peter Hatherley (21:33):
I've got a few people on board.
A lot of them are selfcontractors.
And I've got people who docoding, for instance.
I'm not a coder, but I'm a goodsoftware architect.
I can see what I want.
I could do the coding.
But I'm more right brained thanI am left brained, put it that
way.
Nigel Rawlins (21:48):
So our point is that if you are running a
business on your own, what I'mtrying to say, and with your
particular tools, you can havevirtual staff using the AI, as
long as you start learning howto use it and bringing it into
yourself.
So, You've also got one forstory writing?
Peter Hatherley (22:06):
Storyline Author.
Storyline Author offers, nonfiction and fiction options.
It tends to write fiction unlessyou tell it to but it writes
really good fiction.
In fact, I tried it out just tosee what it like, and the
response was just incredible.
Came up with characters, and itwas talking about future events
in regard to AI, which wasreally intriguing.
(22:27):
And, it came up with some reallygood ideas.
Again, with Storyline Author,it's interesting.
It'll give you an outline.
It'll throw out all of the waysthat you should write the book
and then break it down intocharacters.
Then it will show the persona ofthat character and what they do
and what their roles are andeverything.
And it explains all that.
And then it'll say, do you wantto change any of this?
(22:48):
So there you can change thecharacter's name or you can
change the role that they haveand all of that.
When it comes to nonfiction,exactly the same.
Now I've just finished writing abook and I'd say it's the most
interactive, authoring job thatI've ever done.
Cause the thing is, if you giveit to the AI, it'll take over
and give its own opinion aboutall of it.
(23:08):
Whereas if you actually have anidea what you want that chapter
to be, you can ask it to writethat.
So you're better off writingchapter by chapter, for example.
And then it's more yours.
This is all about making thatconnection.
This is what interactive, I knowit's a word that sometimes
people won't relate to.
But it's all aboutcollaboration.
It's all about getting moreinvolved.
(23:30):
And the more you do, the moreit's like you.
And the more it's like what youwant to say, it really is an
opportunity for you And that'swhy I called it authored
intelligence, because we canauthor intelligence.
We can tell it what we want.
And that's always been the coreor the foundational thing of my
(23:52):
whole operation is that it's notabout AIs.
It's about how we can worktogether with AIs and
collaborate.
And there is nothing more sotrue than there is today.
Even though I tried to do itearlier, it wasn't as easy
because you couldn't chat withit until GPT came along.
So you'd have to do it in a sortof makeshift way.
(24:13):
But now it's all there and it'smy catchphrase for my GPTs, Just
Ask.
If you want anything, just ask.
Then it will say what do youwant?
What's the flavour you want?
Do you want to make it punchy?
Do you want to make it informalor formal?
It will ask you those questions.
And that's the big difference.
In the early days of AI, you hadto come up with all of that.
Nigel Rawlins (24:35):
Now that's the interesting thing is because
most of us, if we haven'treally, or we're just getting
into ChatGPT, or have been usingit for a while, are just putting
in prompts.
Whereas what yours is doing isreally helping us become that
cyborg.
Where it becomes part of us,where we're using it constantly
backwards and forwards andletting it talk to us.
(24:57):
But the other thing too is thememory thing.
You said there's a memory inChatGPT that you need to turn on
that will then get to know youbetter.
So, where do you find that bit?
Peter Hatherley (25:06):
Oh, look, it's just incredible.
And, I started doing it becauseI wanted it to remember the
format of of how I did my prompttags.
And so I said, format the prompttags like this.
And then I realized that wasonly the tip of the iceberg.
You can tell it to speak in away, you can upload files of
what you've spoken like, you caneven upload audio files, video
(25:31):
files, you can do that withGemini.
You can't actually quite do thatwith OpenAI at this point in
time.
But for instance, you can takean image, this is what I call
it's multimodal prompting.
And it's, it only came aboutwith custom GPTs and it's more
obvious with GPT–4o which youcan actually have a conversation
(25:54):
with it.
And I did a podcast that Imentioned to you and that
podcast is like talking to areal person.
And people say, wow, how did youdo that?
It sounded like you were talkingto a real person.
And not only that, they havevery good interviewers that get
stuff out of you.
That you wouldn't think of anddo a really good job.
So this growth and and how weinteract with AI, and to be
(26:20):
truthful, you could actuallymake an AI or a program that was
you, that would mimic everythingthat you did Obviously it'll
grow over time and have more ofa knowledge of you.
And even when it gets to video,it'll be able to tell whether
you're anxious.
It'll know what your feelingsare.
It doesn't understand feelings,but it knows what they are and
(26:44):
it knows how to respond to them.
Nigel Rawlins (26:46):
Now, Peter, this is really interesting.
You're a similar age to me, andyou and I, when we were kids it
was almost like it was a blackand white world, Spent most of
our time outside.
We didn't have phones oranything like that.
And here we are.
Who would have thought that thiswould be the world that we're
living in now?
And, unfortunately, becausewe're older, God knows how many
(27:07):
years we've got left, we'reliving in
Peter Hatherley (27:10):
yes,
Nigel Rawlins (27:10):
A science fiction world that, when you look
outside, it's not a sciencefiction world, but the digital
world is a science fictionworld.
Peter Hatherley (27:17):
Yeah.
It's incredible.
And the growth in that amount oftime especially the last 10
years has been just phenomenal.
Nigel Rawlins (27:27):
So one of the things I'm hopefully encouraging
through Wisepreneurs is and Ihate the word older, people
might be 50s, 60s, who are stillwanting to continue working for
themselves because since thatbook, The 100 Year Life came out
is that you don't just, stopworking when you retire.
There's things, professionalsmight like to continue to do.
(27:50):
But with the ChatGPT and yourproducts through Authored
Intelligence, you can continueto do so much more and hopefully
take some of the boring stuffthat takes a lot of time and
help automate it in a way.
So how would you suggestsomebody who is working for
themselves or about to work forthemselves, how would you
(28:12):
suggest they structure theirbusiness in a way?
Peter Hatherley (28:16):
Yeah.
If you take AI as the core ofyour business strategy.
It's going to give you,especially if you pick the right
tool and the tool that suits youwithout having to need to do a
prompt.
And that's what Semantic Authorand Conceptuality are about.
You don't need to do theprompting.
The prompting is all built in.
And that's what custom GPTs do,if they do it properly.
(28:38):
I would say you've got to find acustom GPT that suits exactly
what you want.
Cause then you don't have tolearn how to prompt because then
you can just ask it thequestions we all want to ask.
Can you write a brief for me?
Can you come up with a socialmedia post for me on this
subject?
And then it will do it for you.
(28:59):
And if you don't like it, or youthink it's a bit hyped up, you
can say tone it down orsomething like that.
That's how you start interactingwith it.
And then if you don't like that,you can say, okay, let's use a
bit more wordplay.
And so there's this interactiveconversation going on.
Whereas if you start and usegenerative AI, you're going to
have to learn how to prompt.
(29:21):
Otherwise, not going to doanything for you.
And it's going to sound robotic.
So it's a better starting point,I think, for people who,
especially in this age group.
I was going to retire.
And AI turned up and I thought,whoa, and I've had the most fun
in my whole life, I've enjoyedevery minute of it.
I'm not in it for the money.
I'm just in it for the fun.
I just love it.
(29:41):
And that comes across in all ofmy media
nigel-rawlins_1_07-09-2024_09 (29:44):
I get that completely.
Now, that's really quiteinteresting.
What we're saying here is this.
Now, I have a framework when Italk about businesses, obviously
you've got to be able to dosomething that you sell.
You've got to be able to sellit, but there's also a marketing
side of it.
So with marketing, especiallytoday, you've got social media.
I use LinkedIn a lot.
(30:05):
I think you're on LinkedIn aswell.
Yeah.
You might use Facebook, youmight use Instagram.
You've got to come up withcontent to keep getting it out
there.
So that takes work.
And in the past you would havehad to have done all that as
well.
You've got articles you want towrite and they've got to, work
pretty well with SEO.
You might have to put proposalstogether.
(30:27):
So there's a whole section herethat you can chunk into your
marketing part.
Now there's also running thebusiness, the operational side
of the business, that organizingyour time organizing your
accounting.
Now, you've just suddenly mademe realize that there's probably
other things like your productsout there that could help you
with other aspects of yourbusiness to, to sharpen up your
(30:49):
processes.
Peter Hatherley (30:50):
Yeah, absolutely.
And those custom GPTs, there'ssome really good ones out there.
I've used one for instance thatcame up with a really great logo
for me.
It's just a logo designer.
The whole point is if you moveinto the custom GPT area and the
beauty of it is now, up to abouta month ago, you had to have a
ChatGPT Pro account, otherwiseyou couldn't even see these
(31:14):
custom GPTs.
That's changed.
You don't even have to have asubscription.
You can actually use thesedirectly from the standard GPT.
You can't create them, but youcan use them.
Nigel Rawlins (31:28):
Okay.
Now your Authored Intelligenceones are the ones you purchase.
So they're commercial.
Are you talking about the freeones up on the top left.
Peter Hatherley (31:37):
Yeah.
I've got free ones as well.
There's Cise Search, which wediscussed earlier.
it's like getting a betteranswer than the Google answers.
It's using Bing, so it's rightup to date.
I tested it out thoroughly tosee if it knows some sports
scores and things like that.
And just after the event, and itpicks everything up.
It's really good.
And and it doesn't hallucinateand it tells the truth about
(32:00):
things.
And it gives you two paragraphs.
Now that one is free.
And, So I've got a few freeones.
I've got one a George Carlin onecalled Carlinesque.
If you want a bit of fun that'sa great one.
And there are other ones thatI've created as well.
The first one I ever did onFrase was called Ask Jarvie Jr.
(32:22):
And I called it Jarvie Jr.
because there was this productcalled Jarvis.
And, they had to stop, they hadto change their brand.
And I called it Jarvie Jr.
And it answers like a 10 yearold and makes jokes.
So you can have fun with it aswell.
It's not just about marketing.
Once you get into the world ofcustom GPTs, you can get stuff
(32:44):
out that, If you're notcreative, it'll be creative for
you and you can have a lot offun.
It's very entertaining.
Nigel Rawlins (32:50):
Some of them I found are technical support.
So if you've got technicalquestions about your computer or
technical issues, another one Ifound is I use Obsidian and I
also use Roam.
These are both note taking appsand they tell me how to do
certain things and there's lotsof those now.
(33:11):
There's ones on cooking and allsorts of things.
All right, have you come acrossany particularly commercial ones
that are very good as well?
Not to do with writing or any ofthat.
Peter Hatherley (33:24):
Yeah, there are ones out there.
Stu Jordan put out a really goodone, which I found, it is to do
with writing, but it roasts yourideas.
And I found it really good.
It uses humour, and I alwayslove humour stuff, anything to
do with humour.
The other things that I'vereally got involved with, and
I've just been totally blownaway by the advances in media.
(33:47):
I've been using a, Productcalled Suno, which creates
music.
Now I've got tools, there's onecalled Emotive Intelligence, and
Emotive Intelligence is anamazing tool.
It'll write more humanly thanany tool that I've got, and you
can actually use it formarketing as well, but it's
really good for writing reallyin depth articles on, the human
(34:09):
condition.
I used it to write a song, andso first up I got it to write
the song.
Then I went to Suno and chose amusic style.
You can choose a music style,paste in the lyrics, and out
comes the music.
And it's basically commercialquality.
(34:30):
Emotive Intelligence writes thebest lyrics that I've ever
found.
So it does a really good job ofit.
On top of that, we've got,products that are now turning
text into video, like propervideo.
You've probably seen the onesthat are only three or four
seconds and they're just movingvery slightly.
I've got one that I put out aweek ago and it was actually a
(34:54):
millennial.
talking with an android orcyborg.
It looks like a cyborg.
And they're actually animatedand talking and it scans around
it and there's light movementand everything, and 10 seconds
of it.
So the next stage with thesethings is that you're going to
be able to create movies,documentaries, movies.
(35:15):
And this is what Hollywood'sreally worried about.
This is why they're protesting,because they know.
Nigel Rawlins (35:20):
That is interesting because when you
start thinking about that is, Ifyou've spent your life working
in a job and then you retire,this opens up a whole lot of
other avenues.
If you wanted to be a filmmakerwhen you were younger, you had
to go out and earn a livingbecause it was hard to do that,
or a musician, you can nowbecome those things.
(35:41):
So what was the AI video onethat you were using?
What was that product?
Peter Hatherley (35:46):
It's called Luma.
Nigel Rawlins (35:47):
Luma.
Peter Hatherley (35:48):
Yeah.
L U M A.
And it's a very good tool.
I've got a couple of other onesthat are quite good.
The thing is, the beauty of itis, and this is the thing.
You either catch the wave, oryou don't.
Those who are surfing the waveare enjoying, not only enjoying
it, but making a bit of money onthe side as well.
And that's what we want to do inour age.
(36:10):
I don't want to burst a boiler,I'd rather be enjoying myself.
And that refreshes you, thattakes you.
And because I've always beeninto the creative the creative
side of things, like themultimedia side is being a great
foundation for what's happeningright now.
Because I know how to puttogether multimedia quite well.
(36:31):
And I'm really excited aboutwhere it's going, and how could
take this conversation, run itthrough an AI, and say, talk
like this, and so then it'stalking like you.
Nigel Rawlins (36:42):
I think this is fantastic because that's the
whole point.
When we're older, okay, postjob, and doing our professional
work that we want to do, andobviously this is really
important for the 60 and the 70year olds as well, is using
these tools, to do some of thegrunt work allows you to have
(37:04):
choice about how you use yourtime, but also takes away the
boring stuff.
And you can use your mind andyour brain to do the thinking
side of your work.
And I think it reallyaccelerates the professional
side of things.
I don't want to work full time,even though I'm ending up full
time.
I really want to spend my timereading interesting stuff,
thinking about it, and maybeturning those into articles that
(37:26):
help you think or do your work.
So this is what really thiswhole podcast has been about is
how do you make some money.
Now you've got it throughproducts and a lot of our
podcast guests that I've beenspeaking to do have products.
They've got little trainingprograms online.
They've got booklets or booksthey sell.
And this is passive income,which is really important.
(37:48):
And your products from AuthoredIntelligence is your passive
income in many ways.
That's what we need to startthinking about.
Peter Hatherley (37:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
And again, you don't need toburst a boiler.
With social media, it's theamount you put in.
whether you get time off or not.
You could decide to put in, say,3 hours a day, or 4 And then do
whatever you want for the restof the day.
It's just being involved thatgets that passive income coming
(38:15):
through.
So the decision that we make,determines our lifestyle.
Nigel Rawlins (38:20):
Yep.
And I think that's so important.
and since I've spoken to youearlier I've suddenly realized I
haven't been using it properlyand I spend hours on it.
So our conversation has changedthe way I've, looked at this.
So maybe what we've got to do inthe future is come back and talk
about this again, and see wherewe've gone.
Now, is there something elsethat we were going to talk about
that you had some things thatyou want to mention?
Peter Hatherley (38:43):
I've just checked my notes.
we've done pretty well.
nigel-rawlins_1_07-09-202 (38:46):
have.
Peter Hatherley (38:47):
We've gone through one of the things that I
think is important Is that weneed to get over the fear of
what AI might possibly be andwhat's taking away.
For us at our age group, it'snot taking away very much at
all.
We may be living onsuperannuation, whatever.
(39:07):
Thank God we have that supportin New Zealand.
Not means tested, which is evenbetter.
So it's just additional.
And so you don't really need, tobe in it full time.
You can do this part time,especially in the older age
groups.
Because let's face it, we wantto make the most of our time and
spend as much time with peopleas we can.
(39:29):
What I've found with AI, andthis is one thing I was going to
say, it's just come back tomind, it's actually made me a
better person.
Emotional intelligence isparticularly that case, and if I
speak to it about a subject orsomething that's troubling me or
whatever, it'll give me verypractical advice.
So it goes beyond business andyou actually get advice that's
(39:51):
not biased.
It hasn't got an agenda.
And unfortunately in the humaninteraction, that's not always
the case.
We've got people who've got anagenda or they get edgy or
whatever.
The AI never gets edgy.
It never has a trouble.
In a way, it's a relationshipbuilder.
And what I find that myinteractions have been is that I
(40:13):
come back into the real worldand I'm responding better
because of the way I've beenlearning how to respond to the
AI.
It's an interesting side effect,isn't it?
Nigel Rawlins (40:22):
That's a very interesting point too, because
one of the things out there inthe world, the academy or the
universities, we're all toldyou've got to do STEM, you've
got to do business courses, andthey're cutting back on history
and the general studies and thehumanities, but they're the
places where you think and learnto communicate.
And AI requires communication.
(40:44):
I rarely would read a businessbook anymore, because I find
them really boring.
Whereas I love to read abouthistory, philosophy, and things
like that.
This helps us.
communicate better with AI,which is really what you're
saying there.
This opens up the communication.
The other thing about AI is itdoesn't get impatient with you,
(41:04):
does it?
You keep coming back.
Peter Hatherley (41:07):
And I think our age group, is actually in a
better position because thecurrent millennials and the ones
that are coming through havemore digital communication than
they have human humaninteraction.
And so taking that into account,we've got an edge, especially if
use AI in the right way becausewe understand communication a
(41:30):
little bit better.
The subjects you talked about,they are my favourite lifetime
subjects, philosophy.
And and I've built customtemplates that, that relate to
that.
And and they'll stay pretty trueto form.
And of course, I've built in thehistorical proof thing with Cise
Search, for instance.
But it's really an edge, becausedigital communication, and
(41:53):
people get more upset online,they've got DMs that they don't
know what people mean.
You think he's mean?
And I speak about it in a veryhumorous way in my interactive
AI book, and that was justcoming back to mind how I'd
described it.
But we're better off, and we canmirror better attitudes if we've
(42:14):
got a custom GPT thatcommunicates with us in a way
that we want to communicate toother people.
Nigel Rawlins (42:20):
So, what we're saying is, for the older ones,
the wiser elders, as somebodysays, this is a competitive
advantage.
You've got to roll with it andusing Authored Intelligence
products, now I'm plugging yourstuff because I use it and I
trust it, it's going to savequite a bit of a learning curve.
(42:42):
So we probably should putsomething together about how
best to use it because thesecret of it is being
interactive.
Okay, Peter, this has been awonderful talk.
How would you like people toconnect with you and find you
Peter Hatherley (42:54):
The best way to find me is probably on Facebook.
You can find the AuthoredIntelligence Mastermind and you
can also go to the website whichis www.
authoredintelligence.com I'mavailable on LinkedIn and on
Facebook.
It's good to link with mepersonally and then we can
discuss things more, more on apersonal level.
Nigel Rawlins (43:15):
That's fantastic.
It's been a wonderful talk.
You've actually spoken to me formore than a couple of hours, but
this recording only goesprobably for about 45 minutes.
So thank you very much, Peter,for joining me.
Peter Hatherley (43:27):
My pleasure and really nice to see you face to
face, Nigel.
I'm speaking with Peter Hatherley, the founder of
Authored Intelligence and whatI'd call an amazing expert in AI
and digital marketing.
In this episode, we're going todive into the transformative
power of AI in digital marketingand business optimization.
And Peter's going to share hisinsights on interactive AI,
advanced SEO techniques andpractical applications of AI
(00:24):
tools for the independentprofessional.
Whether you're looking toimprove your digital strategy,
or gain some new perspectives onhow you can use AI for business.
This episode is packed withvaluable insights.
So listen up, get ready.
And get inspired.
Peter, welcome to theWisepreneurs podcast.
(00:44):
Can you tell us something aboutyourself and where you're from?
Peter Hatherley (00:47):
Hi, Nigel.
Yeah, I'm the founder ofAuthored Intelligence.
It's an AI company.
And it's based in Christchurch,New Zealand, but we have an
international market, and we'vebeen running for around two
years now, so it's been quite aride.
Nigel Rawlins (01:04):
We've got a bit of a time difference, but it's
quite nice for me because weactually started talking at nine
o'clock, so we took 50 minutesbefore we started this.
Peter Hatherley (01:12):
Oh look, the green room was amazing today.
Nigel Rawlins (01:15):
Yes, you could say that.
All right now, but you didn'tjust start off with AI.
Many years ago from the Looks ofit, you started out in digital
marketing, so just tell us alittle bit about that before we
come back to the AI stuff.
Peter Hatherley (01:28):
Yeah, I ran a digital marketing company, I
still do but I'm mainly focusednow on AI, and my clients have
all benefited by the fact thatthey can have access to this as
well.
But I started in multimedia, andI worked for companies like
ExxonMobil, and large companieshere in New Zealand like BNZ,
and Pricewaterhouse was anotherone.
(01:49):
Multimedia was amazing.
I just loved it.
And, I had a graphic background,a musical background.
Everything just fitted for me inthat way.
And, actually, AI is justgetting to that same area right
now.
And they call it multimodalprompting.
And so you can use images toprompt, and then get it to write
stuff about your images or yourvideo.
(02:10):
But anyway, that's where Istarted.
And then, unfortunately, and Isay unfortunately because the
internet came along and you hadgrey screens with little
graphics that were minute.
And we've all seen, we allremember those days.
And, so for me, it was a stepbackwards from the multimedia,
which was just engaging and somuch fun.
(02:31):
And so anyway, I ended upgetting more involved in SEO
over the years, and I justhappened to stumble across a,
what I call my secret sauce,which was a letter pattern that
I found in language that wasable, it just happened one day
that I woke up one morning, andI've been testing this on a site
(02:54):
that we were doing at the time,and all of a sudden it went
straight up to number one.
And then I looked at the othersites that were doing it as
well.
And they all had gone to numberone.
It was just incredible.
And so my question was why,what, was it just these things
that I was using?
Two months later, Google cameout and admitted that they'd put
(03:15):
out an algorithm update calledHummingbird.
And so a lot of people weren'tusing what they call semantic
entities these days.
And I created an algorithm fromthat and was able to optimize
websites and I started doing itwhile I was on G+ and I always
shake my head when it comes toG+ because why they closed it
(03:38):
down is beyond me.
But, I had 20, 000 followers.
G Plus is Google plus.
It was a social media platformthat Google put out.
It was huge.
And but it was huge around thetens.
That was when it was happening.
And anyway I rubbed shoulderswith some of the top SEO people
in the world because they couldsee what was happening and how
(03:59):
it was working.
It was like, when you looked atthe graphs of how it worked
you'd start at a certain pointand maybe they're in position 20
or something like that.
And then it looked, it was likelooking at a picture of a
mountain.
And it would go straight up,within a week or two, it would
just go straight to the top.
And this is because of thisalgorithm I was using.
(04:21):
But anyway then it would get to10.
And then it was like base campon the mountain.
And then you'd have to do alittle bit more, optimization.
And then it would go eventuallyto number one.
But that would normally onlytake about three or four weeks.
That was how quick it was.
And I ended up doing it forpeople like for Seers and, major
companies over in the States.
(04:43):
And we had the same results.
But the difference with AI, andthat was the seed of where I
went into AI I'd create, Icalled them word banks and they
would create this hugeconnection of what are called
entities.
Just trying to explain entitiesbecause not everyone knows what
entities are.
Say if you think of a kitchen, acupboard is an entity, it's
(05:05):
connected to the kitchen.
Spoons are.
The sink is.
Water is.
And so all of those words areconnected.
So when you add all of that intoSEO, you can start to see why
Google thinks it's betterbecause, all of the entities
that are connected to it arementioned and the more subtle
the entities or the ones that myAI can actually pick out, ones
(05:28):
that other people aren't using.
I can just ask it to say whatare the entities they're not
using?
And it would give me a list.
So I add that into the list.
SEO is all about being unique,having unique content.
So anyway, SICE the algorithmwas called SICE and it was a
huge word bank and it would takea lot of work to do it because
(05:49):
you had always up to a thousandin some cases of words to enter
in.
And to me, that was just quitetime consuming, but it had a
huge payback.
And so that's why companies werewilling to do it.
And the sites that I optimizedback in 2012, using this concept
without touching them once eversince, are still in the top
(06:12):
three.
Without an alteration.
Nigel Rawlins (06:15):
That's amazing because the problem that a lot
of new professionals who arecoming out, especially with the
audience, we're talking aboutmarketing here and getting found
on Google, which hopefully willstill exist in the land of AI,
is being found and that's thebiggest problem.
If you've finished your workinglife and you've decided you're
(06:36):
going to continue on as anindependent professional and get
work.
Now, you might have a networkwhere you get work, but you also
need to be found online.
And this is what we're talkingabout with the SEO.
And, we're talking about a wholelot of words there.
We're not saying plonk all thosewords in there because that's
just what we call keywordstuffing.
You're actually talking aboutwriting interesting, relevant
(06:57):
content that will appeal to whowe want to appeal to.
Peter Hatherley (07:01):
The thing is you can entity stuff.
There's nothing against it.
Keyword stuffing is a definiteno.
But entity stuffing isn't even,they can't even determine it
because when you add up all ofthe connections, they all make
sense and the AI does it evenbetter because once I was able
to take those word banks and putthem into the AI, all of a
(07:23):
sudden I had this huge advantagefrom people who were just doing
the baby steps.
I had, something that I coulduse immediately to get an edge.
And one of my major things withmy AI, that they're very
creative.
They're extremely creative.
When I started doing it in 2022,I was working in a Facebook
(07:44):
group called FRASE who had about10, 000 followers and, I was
getting 8, 000 visitors a month,from that alone.
And the sales were justincredible.
But the reason was that itwasn't putting out robotic
stuff.
It was human esque.
My templates have always focusedon making it speak like a human
(08:06):
and you can train it and it'sgot better and better over time.
And now you can even get it toremember things.
So if you want it to speak in acertain style or you want to do
this and you've got your ownunique way of speaking, you can
actually teach it to do it.
It's at that point and that'swhere it's turned from what it's
called generative AI, which isdoing a prompt and then just
(08:26):
clicking the button and gettingsomething out.
Interactive AI is when you'retalking with the machine and
you're going through a process,you're consulting with it, and
it's got to that point that itcan act like a consultant, and
Mentor, a Guide, and a Writer.
It's got all of those extraelements that have come into the
play.
Just over the last six monthsactually, it's really taken off.
Nigel Rawlins (08:50):
Okay.
Let's just step back a bitbecause we talked about prompts
and stuff like that becauseAuthored Intelligence has a
whole range of products thathelp you with that, but let's
just step back.
For people who are listening,basically, whether they're using
a paid AI Claude or ChatGPT, howdo you think most people are
just using AI at the moment?
(09:12):
And then we'll go into whatAuthored Intelligence is and
interactive AI, because we'veprobably jumped a bit there.
Peter Hatherley (09:20):
Jumped under the gun a bit.
Yeah yeah, basically that'sgenerative AI.
And so most people are usingprompts.
So they've either found promptsfrom somewhere or got advice
from a group where they'reshowing prompts.
And they're more of one offconversations.
It's like going into a meetingand then just throwing it on the
table, not saying one word moreand saying, do this.
(09:42):
It treats the AI like a servant.
They're not children.
They understand far more.
I see it as a savant.
So I treat AI slightlydifferently.
And the fact that I can see thatit knows things and I've tested
it out and found out what itknows.
And then I come up with veryconcise instructions that end up
(10:04):
in a conversation.
And as you've got two of myproducts, Conceptuality and
Semantic Author.
And so those are veryinteractive and it'll give you
the rationale of what you'redoing, it'll ask you into it and
invite you in and discuss itwith you.
That's the real shift, is thatmost people are used to using
(10:24):
ChatGPT or Claude.
I must say there's a really newplayer on the market that I'm
really amazed by and I feel thatthey've made a huge leap.
Is Gemini 1.
5 Pro.
And that's the, Google one thatused to be called BART.
But I used to have a joke aboutthat.
I said, it's really bad, but itwas in those days, but it's
(10:45):
actually really good now.
And I've just written a bookusing it, so I know how good it
is.
And again, it's gone to theinteractive stage.
So instead of having promptswhere you just throw everything
at it, The best way to do it isto get it involved, communicate
with it.
It's called chat after all,basically communicate with it,
(11:06):
get feedback, and then hone it.
And you feel so much moreinvolved.
It's so much more satisfying tohave your opinions and your
ideas being amplified by the AI.
And that's how I see it thesedays.
I see it as a co partner, coarchitect probably is a better
(11:27):
word.
And it gets involved in thenitty gritties of, do you really
want this?
Do you want me to change this?
Are you happy with this?
And so there's this interactivething that's going on.
That's what I call interactiveAI.
So most people know AI as agenerative, what is called
generative AI.
And that's giving it a bigprompt and then expecting it to
(11:49):
do the rest.
Nigel Rawlins (11:50):
A lot of people have got to suddenly realize
that, and it depends how muchthey're using at the moment.
If they've just been thinkingabout it, or they've heard about
it, or they're playing with it,they've really got to get in and
play with it, see what it cando.
Ethan Mollick is a I think he'sa professor in America.
He writes about different typesof, people, how they use AI.
(12:11):
One he calls a centaur, which isthat half horse, half man, from
mythology.
And he talks about there's aclear line between the AI and
the person, a division of laborthat the human does this, the AI
does that, or he talks aboutcyborgs, which is a blend of the
machine and the person.
(12:31):
And really the interactive AIyou're talking about sounds like
the cyborg.
And if you're like I'mconstantly in and out of AI all
day.
How do I use this app?
Can you help me rewrite thissentence or give me a
subheading?
And I'm constantly in and out ofit, but from our conversation
before we came online, Irealized I haven't been using it
properly either.
(12:52):
Once you mentioned interactiveAI, I've gone, oh golly, I
didn't realize that I haven'tbeen using it properly.
All right, let's start talkingabout Authored Intelligence and
how you got onto a number ofproducts, which I've purchased
three and use all of them allthe time and haven't been using
properly by the way, since I'vespoken to you.
So let's talk about some ofthose and how they can help
(13:14):
people.
Peter Hatherley (13:15):
Yeah, it was an evolution.
I started with templates onFRASE, and these I grew one by
one, and eventually it ended upbeing 12 templates.
First one was Agency Writer,which was connected to my
background, so it was very easyfor me to write.
And I based that a lot on myexperience with DDB and other
(13:35):
advertising agencies that I'veworked with over the years.
And it was really creative.
Now that's what most people findwith just going to the plain old
vanilla ChatGPT or VanillaClaude.
Is that you'll get vanillaoutput.
You need to have a creativeoutput.
So what these tools did wasbasically take away the need for
(13:57):
the person to develop a promptand then just focus on what they
wanted to write about.
So it took away that step thatmost people have to struggle
with.
And it's, I used to call itprompt block, it wasn't writer's
block, it was prompt block.
And I wrote this, free e book,Speak to the Machine.
And it's now in about, I thinkit's 8th edition or whatever.
(14:18):
But it changed over time.
That was what the problem was.
People didn't understand how tospeak to the machine.
They didn't see it as aconversation.
They saw it like a tool.
And I think that was themistake.
Once you actually realize, it'snot a real person, they're not
sentient beings, but it canmimic what you want.
So if you want it to write likean advertising copywriter, It
(14:39):
will do that for you.
If you want it to act like anSEO expert, it'll do that for
you.
What I've done with theproducts, especially the ones
you've got that was an evolutiontoo.
I'd had these web apps which,won all of the 12 apps that I
developed on FRASE.
I made them web apps, and then Icombined them all together in
what I call the all in oneeditor.
(15:01):
Because one of the big thingsthat I found, as a problem in AI
was yes, you could output it,but where do you edit it?
And it's only just recently thatthey've started to do that.
And that's why I like Gemini Pro1.
5 is because you can actuallyedit your output inside the
machine, which would be reallynice in OpenAI, to be honest.
(15:23):
The thing is we all need toproof.
We all need to edit.
And, most people make themistake of just throwing it out
and not looking at it, notchecking facts and doing all
that.
And talking about facts, there'sthis talk about AI hallucination
and it's a real thing.
And it took me about a year, Itried all of these different
(15:47):
things to stop it doing it, andthen one day, I came up with a,
what I call a prompt tag, thatactually forces it, basically,
to not go and imagine things.
So I'd say, it needs to behistorical, empirical, or
scientific.
You've got to have that proof,otherwise don't say anything
basically.
(16:07):
And so that stopped it doing it.
And that's why these prompt tagsare incredibly powerful and
they're all built into my tools.
The ones that you've got, youcan't do it cause they're on the
custom GPT, but I've got a toolcalled Prompt Tag Author, where
you can create these prompts andthen just click on whatever.
(16:27):
It's got all of the six majorplatforms and you can just click
on it and it will automaticallygo that you just copy it and
then paste it into the tool thatyou've gone to.
So that solved the problem forpeople with the GPTs and it
meant they could leverage all ofthat benefit that had been built
up over the time that I builtthe web apps.
Nigel Rawlins (16:46):
What you're saying is, would you use that
with your products?
Peter Hatherley (16:50):
You can actually go directly to my
products.
Like you can go to, chat, GPT,and you, as you can use custom
GPTs by just using the ampersandsign and it'll just come up.
So very easy to use but it alsogoes directly to another tool of
mine, which is called the All inOne Editor.
These are the 12 apps that I'vedeveloped and that's evolved
(17:12):
into a rewriter.
What I've found is that a lot ofmy subscribers were keen on
rewriting and they like my styleparticularly.
And so that's given rise to thisnew product, which means that
you can edit, you can just pastewherever the outputs come from,
and then you can edit itsentence by sentence, and you
can ask it to actually use onesentence, for instance, and say
(17:37):
output three sentences, soyou've got this real flexibility
with adding stuff.
And it's using the same flavoras the content that you put in
there.
So you don't lose that.
Nigel Rawlins (17:48):
That's the whole point about Authored
Intelligence.
We're talking about writing andand that comes from your SEO
background and it's aboutputting this stuff on the web or
if you're writing articlessomewhere, and what we're
talking about here is to help uswrite more human but also
interesting copy and usingChatTPT to help us with this.
(18:10):
And your products help do itwith different things.
Let's talk about some of theparticular ones.
What's the most popular one?
And then just work through someof those and tell us something
about what they can do forpeople.
Peter Hatherley (18:23):
The most popular without a doubt is
Semantic Author.
And it's mainly because peoplewant to rank and they want to
reach people.
And this is where the semanticentities come in.
And so that gives them the edge.
And so that's all built in underthe surface and it gives the
rationale.
So constantly, whenever you dosomething, you're learning more
(18:43):
about how it works constantly.
It's like a training like amentor that's teaching you how
to use it, not just put out thecontent.
So that's far better.
You come out knowing what you'redoing.
And when you're knowing whatyou're doing, then you can get
more involved in sayingactually, I'd like you to do it
like this, or it'll give you thecreative rationale of why it's
(19:07):
done it.
It's interesting because I justdid an audit on it a few days
ago, and Semantic Author was byfar the most used used GPT that
I've got.
In saying that, ConceptualityConceptuality is the most
creative and in a way, like ourdiscussion today, once people
know what it can do, then itchanges, and that's growing
(19:30):
really well at the moment.
Conceptuality is like a It'slike a virtual ad agency.
So you can come in, you can getthe copywriter, you can get the
marketing expert, you can getthe guy who's planning the
campaigns who wants to talkabout budgets, you can get it to
write video scripts, anythingthat an agency can do, it can
(19:51):
do, including a bit of SEO aswell.
It's not as in depth as SemanticAuthor, but it will do that as
well.
So Conceptuality is, is a reallyfull featured product, that can
do everything as far as anyadvertising work that you want
to do.
Nigel Rawlins (20:09):
So a good workflow there would be is to
use Conceptuality, to helpfigure out what it is you want
to do and maybe help you writethe content.
And then would you put it intoSemantic Author and work your
way through that?
Peter Hatherley (20:23):
That, yeah.
What I tend to do is I finish itoff and my finishing tool is the
All In One Editor.
Because I want to get it into anediting situation.
And so I'll copy and paste itinto the all in one author.
And then if I see a sentencethat I want changed, I'll just
ask it to rewrite that sentence.
(20:44):
Or if it's a paragraph, rewritethe paragraph.
So it's really a finishing tool.
So I tend to do a lot of that inthere.
And Semantic Author as I say, isthe most popular because people
are wanting to rank.
And yet, Conceptuality is themore creative of the two.
Nigel Rawlins (21:04):
Now, one of the things that I'm hoping the
listeners are understanding,especially if you're a one
person business, these become apart of your business.
There's a quote from AndrejKarpathy,"Bits are easier to
work with than atoms." Now inthe past, if you ran a business,
you'd need to hire people, whocould do all this?
(21:25):
Now I do quite a bit ofsubcontracting cause I don't
want to do everything, but beinga one person business.
Are you one person business too?
Peter Hatherley (21:33):
I've got a few people on board.
A lot of them are selfcontractors.
And I've got people who docoding, for instance.
I'm not a coder, but I'm a goodsoftware architect.
I can see what I want.
I could do the coding.
But I'm more right brained thanI am left brained, put it that
way.
Nigel Rawlins (21:48):
So our point is that if you are running a
business on your own, what I'mtrying to say, and with your
particular tools, you can havevirtual staff using the AI, as
long as you start learning howto use it and bringing it into
yourself.
So, You've also got one forstory writing?
Peter Hatherley (22:06):
Storyline Author.
Storyline Author offers, nonfiction and fiction options.
It tends to write fiction unlessyou tell it to but it writes
really good fiction.
In fact, I tried it out just tosee what it like, and the
response was just incredible.
Came up with characters, and itwas talking about future events
in regard to AI, which wasreally intriguing.
(22:27):
And, it came up with some reallygood ideas.
Again, with Storyline Author,it's interesting.
It'll give you an outline.
It'll throw out all of the waysthat you should write the book
and then break it down intocharacters.
Then it will show the persona ofthat character and what they do
and what their roles are andeverything.
And it explains all that.
And then it'll say, do you wantto change any of this?
(22:48):
So there you can change thecharacter's name or you can
change the role that they haveand all of that.
When it comes to nonfiction,exactly the same.
Now I've just finished writing abook and I'd say it's the most
interactive, authoring job thatI've ever done.
Cause the thing is, if you giveit to the AI, it'll take over
and give its own opinion aboutall of it.
(23:08):
Whereas if you actually have anidea what you want that chapter
to be, you can ask it to writethat.
So you're better off writingchapter by chapter, for example.
And then it's more yours.
This is all about making thatconnection.
This is what interactive, I knowit's a word that sometimes
people won't relate to.
But it's all aboutcollaboration.
It's all about getting moreinvolved.
(23:30):
And the more you do, the moreit's like you.
And the more it's like what youwant to say, it really is an
opportunity for you And that'swhy I called it authored
intelligence, because we canauthor intelligence.
We can tell it what we want.
And that's always been the coreor the foundational thing of my
(23:52):
whole operation is that it's notabout AIs.
It's about how we can worktogether with AIs and
collaborate.
And there is nothing more sotrue than there is today.
Even though I tried to do itearlier, it wasn't as easy
because you couldn't chat withit until GPT came along.
So you'd have to do it in a sortof makeshift way.
(24:13):
But now it's all there and it'smy catchphrase for my GPTs, Just
Ask.
If you want anything, just ask.
Then it will say what do youwant?
What's the flavour you want?
Do you want to make it punchy?
Do you want to make it informalor formal?
It will ask you those questions.
And that's the big difference.
In the early days of AI, you hadto come up with all of that.
Nigel Rawlins (24:35):
Now that's the interesting thing is because
most of us, if we haven'treally, or we're just getting
into ChatGPT, or have been usingit for a while, are just putting
in prompts.
Whereas what yours is doing isreally helping us become that
cyborg.
Where it becomes part of us,where we're using it constantly
backwards and forwards andletting it talk to us.
(24:57):
But the other thing too is thememory thing.
You said there's a memory inChatGPT that you need to turn on
that will then get to know youbetter.
So, where do you find that bit?
Peter Hatherley (25:06):
Oh, look, it's just incredible.
And, I started doing it becauseI wanted it to remember the
format of of how I did my prompttags.
And so I said, format the prompttags like this.
And then I realized that wasonly the tip of the iceberg.
You can tell it to speak in away, you can upload files of
what you've spoken like, you caneven upload audio files, video
(25:31):
files, you can do that withGemini.
You can't actually quite do thatwith OpenAI at this point in
time.
But for instance, you can takean image, this is what I call
it's multimodal prompting.
And it's, it only came aboutwith custom GPTs and it's more
obvious with GPT–4o which youcan actually have a conversation
(25:54):
with it.
And I did a podcast that Imentioned to you and that
podcast is like talking to areal person.
And people say, wow, how did youdo that?
It sounded like you were talkingto a real person.
And not only that, they havevery good interviewers that get
stuff out of you.
That you wouldn't think of anddo a really good job.
So this growth and and how weinteract with AI, and to be
(26:20):
truthful, you could actuallymake an AI or a program that was
you, that would mimic everythingthat you did Obviously it'll
grow over time and have more ofa knowledge of you.
And even when it gets to video,it'll be able to tell whether
you're anxious.
It'll know what your feelingsare.
It doesn't understand feelings,but it knows what they are and
(26:44):
it knows how to respond to them.
Nigel Rawlins (26:46):
Now, Peter, this is really interesting.
You're a similar age to me, andyou and I, when we were kids it
was almost like it was a blackand white world, Spent most of
our time outside.
We didn't have phones oranything like that.
And here we are.
Who would have thought that thiswould be the world that we're
living in now?
And, unfortunately, becausewe're older, God knows how many
(27:07):
years we've got left, we'reliving in
Peter Hatherley (27:10):
yes,
Nigel Rawlins (27:10):
A science fiction world that, when you look
outside, it's not a sciencefiction world, but the digital
world is a science fictionworld.
Peter Hatherley (27:17):
Yeah.
It's incredible.
And the growth in that amount oftime especially the last 10
years has been just phenomenal.
Nigel Rawlins (27:27):
So one of the things I'm hopefully encouraging
through Wisepreneurs is and Ihate the word older, people
might be 50s, 60s, who are stillwanting to continue working for
themselves because since thatbook, The 100 Year Life came out
is that you don't just, stopworking when you retire.
There's things, professionalsmight like to continue to do.
(27:50):
But with the ChatGPT and yourproducts through Authored
Intelligence, you can continueto do so much more and hopefully
take some of the boring stuffthat takes a lot of time and
help automate it in a way.
So how would you suggestsomebody who is working for
themselves or about to work forthemselves, how would you
(28:12):
suggest they structure theirbusiness in a way?
Peter Hatherley (28:16):
Yeah.
If you take AI as the core ofyour business strategy.
It's going to give you,especially if you pick the right
tool and the tool that suits youwithout having to need to do a
prompt.
And that's what Semantic Authorand Conceptuality are about.
You don't need to do theprompting.
The prompting is all built in.
And that's what custom GPTs do,if they do it properly.
(28:38):
I would say you've got to find acustom GPT that suits exactly
what you want.
Cause then you don't have tolearn how to prompt because then
you can just ask it thequestions we all want to ask.
Can you write a brief for me?
Can you come up with a socialmedia post for me on this
subject?
And then it will do it for you.
(28:59):
And if you don't like it, or youthink it's a bit hyped up, you
can say tone it down orsomething like that.
That's how you start interactingwith it.
And then if you don't like that,you can say, okay, let's use a
bit more wordplay.
And so there's this interactiveconversation going on.
Whereas if you start and usegenerative AI, you're going to
have to learn how to prompt.
(29:21):
Otherwise, not going to doanything for you.
And it's going to sound robotic.
So it's a better starting point,I think, for people who,
especially in this age group.
I was going to retire.
And AI turned up and I thought,whoa, and I've had the most fun
in my whole life, I've enjoyedevery minute of it.
I'm not in it for the money.
I'm just in it for the fun.
I just love it.
(29:41):
And that comes across in all ofmy media
nigel-rawlins_1_07-09-2024_09 (29:44):
I get that completely.
Now, that's really quiteinteresting.
What we're saying here is this.
Now, I have a framework when Italk about businesses, obviously
you've got to be able to dosomething that you sell.
You've got to be able to sellit, but there's also a marketing
side of it.
So with marketing, especiallytoday, you've got social media.
I use LinkedIn a lot.
(30:05):
I think you're on LinkedIn aswell.
Yeah.
You might use Facebook, youmight use Instagram.
You've got to come up withcontent to keep getting it out
there.
So that takes work.
And in the past you would havehad to have done all that as
well.
You've got articles you want towrite and they've got to, work
pretty well with SEO.
You might have to put proposalstogether.
(30:27):
So there's a whole section herethat you can chunk into your
marketing part.
Now there's also running thebusiness, the operational side
of the business, that organizingyour time organizing your
accounting.
Now, you've just suddenly mademe realize that there's probably
other things like your productsout there that could help you
with other aspects of yourbusiness to, to sharpen up your
(30:49):
processes.
Peter Hatherley (30:50):
Yeah, absolutely.
And those custom GPTs, there'ssome really good ones out there.
I've used one for instance thatcame up with a really great logo
for me.
It's just a logo designer.
The whole point is if you moveinto the custom GPT area and the
beauty of it is now, up to abouta month ago, you had to have a
ChatGPT Pro account, otherwiseyou couldn't even see these
(31:14):
custom GPTs.
That's changed.
You don't even have to have asubscription.
You can actually use thesedirectly from the standard GPT.
You can't create them, but youcan use them.
Nigel Rawlins (31:28):
Okay.
Now your Authored Intelligenceones are the ones you purchase.
So they're commercial.
Are you talking about the freeones up on the top left.
Peter Hatherley (31:37):
Yeah.
I've got free ones as well.
There's Cise Search, which wediscussed earlier.
it's like getting a betteranswer than the Google answers.
It's using Bing, so it's rightup to date.
I tested it out thoroughly tosee if it knows some sports
scores and things like that.
And just after the event, and itpicks everything up.
It's really good.
And and it doesn't hallucinateand it tells the truth about
(32:00):
things.
And it gives you two paragraphs.
Now that one is free.
And, So I've got a few freeones.
I've got one a George Carlin onecalled Carlinesque.
If you want a bit of fun that'sa great one.
And there are other ones thatI've created as well.
The first one I ever did onFrase was called Ask Jarvie Jr.
(32:22):
And I called it Jarvie Jr.
because there was this productcalled Jarvis.
And, they had to stop, they hadto change their brand.
And I called it Jarvie Jr.
And it answers like a 10 yearold and makes jokes.
So you can have fun with it aswell.
It's not just about marketing.
Once you get into the world ofcustom GPTs, you can get stuff
(32:44):
out that, If you're notcreative, it'll be creative for
you and you can have a lot offun.
It's very entertaining.
Nigel Rawlins (32:50):
Some of them I found are technical support.
So if you've got technicalquestions about your computer or
technical issues, another one Ifound is I use Obsidian and I
also use Roam.
These are both note taking appsand they tell me how to do
certain things and there's lotsof those now.
(33:11):
There's ones on cooking and allsorts of things.
All right, have you come acrossany particularly commercial ones
that are very good as well?
Not to do with writing or any ofthat.
Peter Hatherley (33:24):
Yeah, there are ones out there.
Stu Jordan put out a really goodone, which I found, it is to do
with writing, but it roasts yourideas.
And I found it really good.
It uses humour, and I alwayslove humour stuff, anything to
do with humour.
The other things that I'vereally got involved with, and
I've just been totally blownaway by the advances in media.
(33:47):
I've been using a, Productcalled Suno, which creates
music.
Now I've got tools, there's onecalled Emotive Intelligence, and
Emotive Intelligence is anamazing tool.
It'll write more humanly thanany tool that I've got, and you
can actually use it formarketing as well, but it's
really good for writing reallyin depth articles on, the human
(34:09):
condition.
I used it to write a song, andso first up I got it to write
the song.
Then I went to Suno and chose amusic style.
You can choose a music style,paste in the lyrics, and out
comes the music.
And it's basically commercialquality.
(34:30):
Emotive Intelligence writes thebest lyrics that I've ever
found.
So it does a really good job ofit.
On top of that, we've got,products that are now turning
text into video, like propervideo.
You've probably seen the onesthat are only three or four
seconds and they're just movingvery slightly.
I've got one that I put out aweek ago and it was actually a
(34:54):
millennial.
talking with an android orcyborg.
It looks like a cyborg.
And they're actually animatedand talking and it scans around
it and there's light movementand everything, and 10 seconds
of it.
So the next stage with thesethings is that you're going to
be able to create movies,documentaries, movies.
(35:15):
And this is what Hollywood'sreally worried about.
This is why they're protesting,because they know.
Nigel Rawlins (35:20):
That is interesting because when you
start thinking about that is, Ifyou've spent your life working
in a job and then you retire,this opens up a whole lot of
other avenues.
If you wanted to be a filmmakerwhen you were younger, you had
to go out and earn a livingbecause it was hard to do that,
or a musician, you can nowbecome those things.
(35:41):
So what was the AI video onethat you were using?
What was that product?
Peter Hatherley (35:46):
It's called Luma.
Nigel Rawlins (35:47):
Luma.
Peter Hatherley (35:48):
Yeah.
L U M A.
And it's a very good tool.
I've got a couple of other onesthat are quite good.
The thing is, the beauty of itis, and this is the thing.
You either catch the wave, oryou don't.
Those who are surfing the waveare enjoying, not only enjoying
it, but making a bit of money onthe side as well.
And that's what we want to do inour age.
(36:10):
I don't want to burst a boiler,I'd rather be enjoying myself.
And that refreshes you, thattakes you.
And because I've always beeninto the creative the creative
side of things, like themultimedia side is being a great
foundation for what's happeningright now.
Because I know how to puttogether multimedia quite well.
(36:31):
And I'm really excited aboutwhere it's going, and how could
take this conversation, run itthrough an AI, and say, talk
like this, and so then it'stalking like you.
Nigel Rawlins (36:42):
I think this is fantastic because that's the
whole point.
When we're older, okay, postjob, and doing our professional
work that we want to do, andobviously this is really
important for the 60 and the 70year olds as well, is using
these tools, to do some of thegrunt work allows you to have
(37:04):
choice about how you use yourtime, but also takes away the
boring stuff.
And you can use your mind andyour brain to do the thinking
side of your work.
And I think it reallyaccelerates the professional
side of things.
I don't want to work full time,even though I'm ending up full
time.
I really want to spend my timereading interesting stuff,
thinking about it, and maybeturning those into articles that
(37:26):
help you think or do your work.
So this is what really thiswhole podcast has been about is
how do you make some money.
Now you've got it throughproducts and a lot of our
podcast guests that I've beenspeaking to do have products.
They've got little trainingprograms online.
They've got booklets or booksthey sell.
And this is passive income,which is really important.
(37:48):
And your products from AuthoredIntelligence is your passive
income in many ways.
That's what we need to startthinking about.
Peter Hatherley (37:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
And again, you don't need toburst a boiler.
With social media, it's theamount you put in.
whether you get time off or not.
You could decide to put in, say,3 hours a day, or 4 And then do
whatever you want for the restof the day.
It's just being involved thatgets that passive income coming
(38:15):
through.
So the decision that we make,determines our lifestyle.
Nigel Rawlins (38:20):
Yep.
And I think that's so important.
and since I've spoken to youearlier I've suddenly realized I
haven't been using it properlyand I spend hours on it.
So our conversation has changedthe way I've, looked at this.
So maybe what we've got to do inthe future is come back and talk
about this again, and see wherewe've gone.
Now, is there something elsethat we were going to talk about
that you had some things thatyou want to mention?
Peter Hatherley (38:43):
I've just checked my notes.
we've done pretty well.
nigel-rawlins_1_07-09-202 (38:46):
have.
Peter Hatherley (38:47):
We've gone through one of the things that I
think is important Is that weneed to get over the fear of
what AI might possibly be andwhat's taking away.
For us at our age group, it'snot taking away very much at
all.
We may be living onsuperannuation, whatever.
(39:07):
Thank God we have that supportin New Zealand.
Not means tested, which is evenbetter.
So it's just additional.
And so you don't really need, tobe in it full time.
You can do this part time,especially in the older age
groups.
Because let's face it, we wantto make the most of our time and
spend as much time with peopleas we can.
(39:29):
What I've found with AI, andthis is one thing I was going to
say, it's just come back tomind, it's actually made me a
better person.
Emotional intelligence isparticularly that case, and if I
speak to it about a subject orsomething that's troubling me or
whatever, it'll give me verypractical advice.
So it goes beyond business andyou actually get advice that's
(39:51):
not biased.
It hasn't got an agenda.
And unfortunately in the humaninteraction, that's not always
the case.
We've got people who've got anagenda or they get edgy or
whatever.
The AI never gets edgy.
It never has a trouble.
In a way, it's a relationshipbuilder.
And what I find that myinteractions have been is that I
(40:13):
come back into the real worldand I'm responding better
because of the way I've beenlearning how to respond to the
AI.
It's an interesting side effect,isn't it?
Nigel Rawlins (40:22):
That's a very interesting point too, because
one of the things out there inthe world, the academy or the
universities, we're all toldyou've got to do STEM, you've
got to do business courses, andthey're cutting back on history
and the general studies and thehumanities, but they're the
places where you think and learnto communicate.
And AI requires communication.
(40:44):
I rarely would read a businessbook anymore, because I find
them really boring.
Whereas I love to read abouthistory, philosophy, and things
like that.
This helps us.
communicate better with AI,which is really what you're
saying there.
This opens up the communication.
The other thing about AI is itdoesn't get impatient with you,
(41:04):
does it?
You keep coming back.
Peter Hatherley (41:07):
And I think our age group, is actually in a
better position because thecurrent millennials and the ones
that are coming through havemore digital communication than
they have human humaninteraction.
And so taking that into account,we've got an edge, especially if
use AI in the right way becausewe understand communication a
(41:30):
little bit better.
The subjects you talked about,they are my favourite lifetime
subjects, philosophy.
And and I've built customtemplates that, that relate to
that.
And and they'll stay pretty trueto form.
And of course, I've built in thehistorical proof thing with Cise
Search, for instance.
But it's really an edge, becausedigital communication, and
(41:53):
people get more upset online,they've got DMs that they don't
know what people mean.
You think he's mean?
And I speak about it in a veryhumorous way in my interactive
AI book, and that was justcoming back to mind how I'd
described it.
But we're better off, and we canmirror better attitudes if we've
(42:14):
got a custom GPT thatcommunicates with us in a way
that we want to communicate toother people.
Nigel Rawlins (42:20):
So, what we're saying is, for the older ones,
the wiser elders, as somebodysays, this is a competitive
advantage.
You've got to roll with it andusing Authored Intelligence
products, now I'm plugging yourstuff because I use it and I
trust it, it's going to savequite a bit of a learning curve.
(42:42):
So we probably should putsomething together about how
best to use it because thesecret of it is being
interactive.
Okay, Peter, this has been awonderful talk.
How would you like people toconnect with you and find you
Peter Hatherley (42:54):
The best way to find me is probably on Facebook.
You can find the AuthoredIntelligence Mastermind and you
can also go to the website whichis www.
authoredintelligence.com I'mavailable on LinkedIn and on
Facebook.
It's good to link with mepersonally and then we can
discuss things more, more on apersonal level.
Nigel Rawlins (43:15):
That's fantastic.
It's been a wonderful talk.
You've actually spoken to me formore than a couple of hours, but
this recording only goesprobably for about 45 minutes.
So thank you very much, Peter,for joining me.
Peter Hatherley (43:27):
My pleasure and really nice to see you face to
face, Nigel.
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