November 22, 2023 • 26 mins
REPLAY: Food is the centrepiece of celebrations, it plays an important part in times spent with friends and family, and is how we fuel and nourish ourselves, but if we view food as a barrier for weight loss or we turn to it in times crisis or trauma, it can damage our relationship with it. Nutritionist and dietitian Marika Day, shares her tips to building a healthy relationship with food and how we can break the cycle of using is as a coping mechanism. Then, Sam breaks down what happens when our body starts plateauing and whether or not we should push through or accept it. Have a question for Sam? Send it to him here.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
So I've been doing a little social experiment this week.
In conversations that I've been having with people. It might
be my work colleagues in the office during the week,
or close friends and family, or just making small talk
with members at the gym, or whatever it is. I've
been taking note just for this week of how often
(00:27):
those conversations revolve around food. I haven't actually done the math,
but I would say it's been about seventy percent of
the conversations. If you speak to that person for long enough,
you know, four or five minutes, you end up talking
about food. It might have been the restaurant that they
tried on the weekend. It might be the lunch they're
looking forward to having with a friend. It might be
(00:47):
the challenges they're having with a fussy eater who's their child. Whatever,
it doesn't really matter, but it is undeniable that for
so many of us, food is an absolutely integral part
of our lives. Our lives almost revolve around it.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Now.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
I'm married to a very passionate Macedonian woman who loves
her food like no one I've really met before, and
I love that she does, because she celebrates food and
she has such a healthy relationship with her whole family
do It's almost like the association with happy and family
and food all go together for Snares. So that then
made me think about how important a positive relationship with
(01:26):
food is. But the flip side to that is, and
this is where many people also struggle, that if you
don't have a positive relationship with food, if it is
a trigger for you for negative feelings and negative emotions
or negative behaviors, how much you're missing out on and
how much that must be impacting your happiness and your
(01:47):
enjoyment around socializing and friendships and your overall health. So
rather than me talk about this subject matter, I have
a wonderful nutritionist who's an expert in relationships with food
coming on the WOODLFE to join us today, and then
we're going to unpack this little question around plateaus.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
I feel like I'm starting to plateau in both my
weight and fitness. How do I know if I'm plateauing
and need to shake up my routine or is this
just my body and it isn't changing as much anymore
because this is just how it's supposed to be naturally.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
This is the Wood Life. I'm Sam Wood. Thanks for
joining us. Let's get into it. Our guest today on
(02:44):
the Wood Life is a dietitian and nutritionist. Got into
nutrition because she was continually frustrated by how it was
being taught and how it was being positioned, and she
wanted to be taught differently, and of course something that
we love here in the Wood Life. Make it simple.
Marika Day, Welcome and thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited
to be here.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
So I've followed you for a while. I love your stuff,
most importantly your philosophy around things. I think you've got
a really balanced approach. I know you got into this
space because of the frustrations that you're experiencing within the industry.
Can you kind of shed a bit of light into
how you got into it and what those specific frustrations were.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Yeah, sure, so I think the thing to begin with,
I got into nutrition because I didn't know what else
to do with.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
My career in life join the club.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I was diagnosed with Celiac disease and just found it interesting.
I guess that you know the way that you eat
can affect your health and wellbeing so much so that
was how I initially got into nutrition. But then once
I actually had done my study and had become a
qualified dietitian and nutritionist and started working in private practice
seeing clients one on one. One of the things that
(04:00):
really killed me is that so many women in particular
were coming to me saying that they'd spent so much
of their energy, so much of their life focusing on dieting,
and that they really still hadn't had the opportunity to
enjoy life because they had hated their body their entire life.
And on the flip side, I was getting these young
girls coming in saying, well, I want to look like
(04:22):
this social media influencer. Can you give me a diet
to look like her? And so I was just seeing
the spectrum of like from the beginning to the end
of this life span of dieting for women, and I
was like, there's got to be another way. I'm not
buying into this.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
So what did you do about it? Let's go straight there.
What do you think the I guess the shake up
process or the redirection process needs to be for these people.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah, so I think for most of them, it is
moving away from focusing on your shape, your size, and
your weight and moving towards focusing on your health, your
well being, whether that be physically healthy, mentally healthy, nutritionally healthy.
There's so many different markets of health that we can
look at and having that emphasis on that total well being,
(05:07):
not just doing what we can at all costs to
look a certain way, and in the process also rebuilding
people's relationship with food, because after years of dieting, a
lot of people do get this really black or white
thinking when it comes to food, like I can't have that,
I can only eat that, and so just repairing that
relationship there.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
So let's talk about that because I think we talk
on this show a lot about relationships. Relationship with yourself
often is something that comes up, but relationship with food.
I mean people people think, what are you talking about?
You know, I'm dating a banana, you know, what's what
the hell's going on? What's this relationship with food? Are
you talking purely about my relationship with food? Is food
(05:48):
is the enemy? Or I need to restrict or remove
or replace rather than embrace and actually have a positive
relationship with food and look at all the positives that
food brings to us.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yeah, I think that's one aspect of it. So thinking
about what nutrition and what food does provide for us,
so from everything from like pleasure to joy to the
nutrients that it gives us, but also thinking about all
of the different contexts in which we consume food. So
for example, particularly you know, actually I was going to say,
particularly here in Australia, I think many cultures they use
(06:22):
food as a way to celebrate, as a way to connect,
as a way to you know, like you someone's birthday,
you usually have them over for dinner and drinks and whatnot.
So there is a really social and cultural sort of
thing around food that I think also plays into your
relationship with food. And again this is something that I
think a lot of people don't really think about when
(06:43):
it comes to their health and well being, is how
our social connections and our environment influence our health and
well being. And considering that in our relationship with food
means that we can actually engage socially in life whilest
still being healthy. So it's not just about you know,
declining the offers to go out to friends places for
dinners and whatnot because you're trying to be healthy. It's
(07:05):
actually accepting and embracing that that can actually be part
of your health and well being.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
It's so true. And I've seen that in the in
the fitness industry, in the gym industry for so long.
You know, people are so all or nothing that you
know they're in and they're really in, and that means
they aren't socialize with a single person for six months
while they become a complete hermit, while they're trying to
get a six pack, and they're they're loving what they're
(07:31):
at that particular point in time, what they're seeing in
the mirror, but deep down they're miserable and lonely, or
they're the other way. And to say to someone, is
this how you want to live for the rest of
your life? Is this really what you think is what sustainable,
enjoyable you know health looks like. Of course they don't
when you when you bring it up like that, but
(07:52):
it is a real problem. So when someone comes to you,
and I totally understand there's a myriad of different reasons
that someone may have a less an ideal relationship with food,
what advice, what steps do you take someone through to
begin to improve that relationship with food.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yeah, So I think one of the first things that
I get people to focus on is actually making sure
that they're eating enough food. Women in particular have been
trained our entire lives to reduce calories, reduce calories, reduce
calories at all costs, And one thing I find is
that people try and do that far too much, and
they end up under eating and therefore then binging or
(08:31):
you know, eating later in the evening because they're so hungry.
So one of the first steps I find to helping
people improve their relationship with food and you know, stop
binge eating and stop that emotional eating that feels really
hard to control, is to make sure that you know,
you're having a breakfast, lunch, and dinner that are actually
adequate in terms of calories and have balanced nutrition in there.
(08:52):
So there's fats, there's proteins, as carbs, they're not restricting
those primary main meals that are actually going to provide
them with the fuel that they need to be able
to make good decisions.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
So just on that, Marika, what is your take on
counting calories?
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yeah, so, I don't have strong opinions on it. I
would say that it works really well for some people.
For my audience and the people in my community, it's
quite triggering and quite damaging and leads them into quite
restrictive mindset, but I'm well aware that it does. It's
helpful for some people.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
I tend to share your opinion. To be honest, I
think it'd being a good education process for some people
because we don't quite understand the calorie a value that
particular foods have or don't have. But when you're thinking
of food as a number rather than the nutritional value
that it's bringing, then that's not where you want to be.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah, definitely. So one of the other strategies that I
have with this is coming at it from more a
psychological perspective, and I think this is really important when
our food and our psychology and the way that we
eat are so entwined, particularly when it comes to a
bad relationship with food. So one of the things that
I always encourage people to do is to think about
(10:10):
your coping strategies and what are your sources of joy
and pleasure in your life, Because for some people who
are incredibly time poor, who've got four kids running around,
don't have time for anything else, food is the chocolate
is the source of joy.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
I know took sneezees kit cats away from here right now,
how do you that might be a relationship. DA right there.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
It's okay to, like you said, it's okay to use
a KitKat as a source of joy, but it becomes
a problem when it's your only source of joy. So
when you have got no other coping strategies for stress,
or you've got no other coping strategies for certain emotions
that you might feel, turning to food all of the
time as your automatic coping mechanism can impede your relationship
(10:56):
with food, and it can, I guess, lead to you
not living in alignment with your values. So that's sort
of the way that I approach nutrition is when you
feel like it's overstepping the boundary where you're not living
a life in alignment with your values, then it's probably
time to start to identify. Okay, what are some other
coping strategies that I could use here? Or where else
(11:18):
can I go to for joy? If chocolate is the
only thing that I get joy out of, how can
I find joy in other areas of my life?
Speaker 1 (11:25):
I love that I see it often with you know,
the relationship with food and then the relationship with exercise.
You know, I'm always sort of saying it X, So
I shouldn't be a punishment. It should be a celebration
of what your body can do, not you know, sending
yourself out for ten kilometer runs because you're feeling so
guilty about you know, how you've not treated your body
(11:46):
the right way, and you know there's got to be
a balance there. There's very similar sort of psychology around
I think the thinking around that with exercises as there
is with eating.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yeah, definitely, I think we've been taught that it needs
to be a punishment and that if we're not hating it,
that it's not working, Whereas it's a complete opposite. Like
if you find exercise and movement that you enjoy and
that you love, that's far better for you in terms
of your health and wellbeing and your consistency and ability
to stick to that that it is if you hate it.
And the same goes for diet. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
I mean, even in the simplest term, I exercise in
the morning is a proactive way to have a good day.
I don't exercise at night to punish myself because I
feel like I've overeaten, or you haven't moved enough or
whatever it might Whatever it might be, it's definitely a
proactive approach. All right, So you've spoken it, You've mentioned
a couple of times. I've just sort of picked up
(12:34):
on it. You've sort of said coping mechanisms. You say
that food is often one of these ways that we
one of these go to. Is what other? In a
more general term or in more general terms, America, do
you advise people to do or is it just such
a personal choice based on the individual.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yeah, it is a really personal choice. And I mean
there's so many things that you could do that bring
you pleasure and enjoy or help relief stress or help
you know when you're feeling down. I like to get
people to think about like hobbies, what sort of hobbies
are you engaging in? And this is a really surprising
one because most people who are above the age of
about twenty five don't have any hobbies, are particularly females.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
You know, it's funny you play sport or you have
sort of hobbies around your school friends, and then I
don't know, you lose your way a little bit. I
wanted to ask you. I just wanted to change check
a little bit because you like me, social media is
a big part of your life because it's a big
part of your job and the way you connect to people,
(13:38):
the way you can create content, the way you can
absorb content. I write articles for a few different publications,
and one of the publications asked me yesterday to write
an article about all these food videos that are popping
up on TikTok and did I think they are actually
helping people eat better or perhaps confusing people more? And
(14:00):
I thought was, well, look, I think a TikTok video,
if it encourages to get back in the kitchen and
cook more and have fun and try new recipes and
cook for your kids, can be a great thing. But
you've also got to think, well, where's this recipe coming from,
and what's the credibility of this person that's posting this,
and has it been designed to show me that it's
(14:21):
healthy or is it purely a treat and it's for fun?
You know, it really is our We need that responsibility
for ourselves to how we excuse the pun consume all
of this information. But I was just wondering what's your take,
And TikTok's just one example that's probably the most current example.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
I think it's who you follow. I don't think it
actually matters the platform, because I've definitely seen a lot
of damaging stuff on Pinterest as well. Ads that come
up there are a very shame driven around weight and
shape and size and detoxes and everything. So I don't
necessarily think it's the platform itself that creates the problem.
(15:00):
It's the people that you are engaging with on the platform.
And I think this is where there probably is the
difference between the platforms, because, like you said, with Pinterest,
you kind of have to search for what you're looking for,
whereas TikTok, you watch one video and then all of
a sudden you're in an algorithm feed that will produce
ten more of them, so you don't get to really choose.
(15:20):
And I guess the danger with that is if you
somehow land upon a video that is really unhealthy, whether
it be promoting disordered eating, or you know, is being
really shameful about weight, shape and size, or is just
providing really incorrect information about health and nutrition, then if
you watch that video, you're going to be continued to
(15:41):
be shown videos that are similar to that. So that's
where I guess TikTok, I think you need to be
really careful of what you're watching on there, and if
something that comes up that doesn't really align with again,
your values and how you see health and how you
see nutrition, then get past as quick as you can.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
The thing I worry about I couldn't agree with you
more in principle. But the thing I worry about is
a TikTok audience I'm sure is more likely a younger audience.
And I mean if I asked my sixteen year old
seventeen year old EV, if I said to her, when Ev,
you're scrolling through TikTok, just be aware of is the
information that you're consuming aligned with your values? I would
(16:22):
get to be the thigh roll of all freaking times.
She'd alone go away, like what you want about? So,
but your advice is really sound, But that's really hard
advice for a seventeen year old to get context around
or take on board. So, in more general terms, what
is your advice to people on using social media for
building community and absorbing recipes and improving their relationship with
(16:45):
food rather than the alternative?
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Yeah? So, I think there's sort of two parts to
social media when it comes to how we can improve it,
And one is our personal responsibility. Like you mentioned earlier
to I guess curate our own feed and to select
the people who we are following and make sure that
we are following people who are expressing a like a
healthy relationship with food, or who aren't body shaming, or
(17:09):
who aren't even driving you into a place of comparison.
So I always say to people that you know, there
might be people out there who mean really well, Like
someone might follow me and you know I am all
about health and balance and well being, yet when they
watch my stuff they get really triggered by it. Unfollow
me if that's the case, Like, unfollow the people who
are triggering that comparison within you, and create your own
(17:31):
feed that feels really good for you, so that when
you go on that platform and you spend five ten minutes,
hours whatever it ends up being, that you actually feel
good when you come off it. The other side of that,
I think there is a responsibility from companies as well
to take responsibility, like if you are in their health
(17:51):
and nutrition or well being space, is to sort of
promote a healthy message around nutrition and health rather than
driving like a weight loss approach in terms of sacrifice
everything in order to look a certain way. I think
that we do really need some more accountability when it
comes to that sort of thing as well.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
I'm glad you said that. I mean, through twenty eight
and through my own channels, I do promote products. So
I'm happy to you know somehow this is not going on.
Sand promotes products. I do, absolutely I do, but I
would promote maybe five percent of the products that come
across my desk. It's and you know, if it's a
food product, it goes to our nutrition team, it gets
the tick of approval, and ninety five percent of the
(18:31):
time it doesn't. And yeah, I share a lot of
your beliefs around social media. I mean the fact that
you're even comfortable saying if I am triggering you not
that is my intention to unfollow me. It's a really
good point because you know, we can't control everybody's reaction
to everything that we put out there. Sometimes you could
be putting a great educational workout out there, but you're
(18:55):
in your activewear and someone might be saying, oh, I
want to be just like Marica or whatever it is,
and it may not have the positive impact that you're
trying for it to have on everybody that watches it. Definitely,
I just wanted to finish with one final question for you, Marika,
because This has been really interesting, and I know you
don't do a lot of this these days, but you're
sitting there, You're in your clinical position or your consultation position,
(19:19):
and someone's coming in to see you for professional help.
So people perhaps don't have to get the professional help.
What is some of the best advice in absolutely any
facet of nutrition that you think people should hear that
is going to help them before they get to perhaps
that stage where they feel like they need that professional
(19:40):
one on one help.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
I don't think that there is anything that someone needs
to know before reaching professional help. So if somebody is
out there thinking, oh I might need professional help, you
don't need to know anything before reaching out for support.
So please reach out for support from your networks and
the doctor and everything if you need to. What I
would say to people in general so that they can
(20:02):
sort of try the best to prevent getting to that
point is I think that we should all know that
the way that we look doesn't define our worth, and
that we can choose to focus on our health and
well being and you know, living a really healthy and
balanced life without having to focus so intensely on our
shape and our weight, and in doing so, we are
(20:23):
likely to find more confidence, we are actually likely to
be more healthy and actually get more satisfaction and enjoy
from life as well.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
That is absolutely beautifully said. A great way to finish, Marika.
Thank you so much for joining us, and hopefully we
can speak again soon.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Thank you so much, Sam.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
What a great little chat with Marika day. He has
a very very well rounded, thoughtful approach to everything I
think that she does, and someone that I've followed for
a long time, as I said, and we'll continue to
follow for a long long time. We're moving on now
from Marika to a little question about plateauing. So we
(21:12):
talk a lot in this show about setting good habits,
eating well, sleeping well, moving more. But it's only natural
that there's going to come a time at some stage
we've perfected all these great new habits, but we're not
seeing a change, or we're not seeing a change at
the same rate that we once were. We call this
the p word plateauing, and it's very common. So we've
(21:35):
got a question that's come through the Woodlife in box
and it's a great question around plateauing. Here it is
from Lee.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Hey, Sam, I feel like I'm starting to plateau in
both my weight and fitness. How do I know if
I'm plateauing and need to shake up my routine or
is this just my body and it isn't changing as
much anymore because this is just how it's supposed to
be naturally.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Thanks Lee, what a great question. And you know why
it's such a great question, because I reckon you are
the spokesperson for hundreds of thousands of people out there
thinking the exact same thing. I totally understand what you
are asking. You're never going to get the same weight
loss or fitness results, or get them at the same
(22:20):
speed as when you are very very overweight or very
very unfit. There's obviously a lot more weight to lose.
Or if your fitness is starting from ground zero, you
can go from a zero to a five much easier
than you can go from a five to a ten.
There is absolutely an element of truth to that. But
and this is a big butt, and a really important butt.
(22:42):
I like big butts, no of them, Jack, I don't
know why I said that, Sorry, Lee. In regards to
whether or not you should accept a plateau, No, No,
you shouldn't. And I think I think too many of us.
And this is why I think it's such a wonderful question.
I think too many of us accept plateaus as being
normal without actually looking at what we're doing or what
(23:04):
we're not doing. Probably is more to the point, if
nothing changes, nothing changes, and our bodies are smart. If
you are doing the same workout routine, or you are
consuming the same amount of calories for an eight to
twelve week period, it is completely natural and normal that
the results you were getting at the start of that
(23:26):
twelve weeks will not continue anywhere near the same rate.
In fact, could level out completely by the end of
that eight to twelve week period. So you need to
shake things up. You need to make a change. We'll
talk food first, because that's a bit simpler and a
bit more mathematical. If you were one hundred kilos at
the start of your weight loss journey and you are
(23:47):
now eighty kilos consuming the same a met forget calories.
Just consuming the same amount of food at eighty kilos
is not going to reduce the weight at the same
rate it did it one hundred kilos because you are
a much smaller person. You are twenty percent smaller. So
there needs to be a point where you start to
make slight adjustments. Nothing radical, slight adjustments to your portion
(24:11):
sizes in line with the fact that you're twenty percent
smaller exercise. There's even more ways to shake it up.
Change the type of exercise that you do. Change the
time of exercise, and I don't mean the time of day.
I mean the amount that you are doing. The ten
minute run becomes the twenty minute run, the thirty minute
workout becomes the forty five minute workout. Change the intensity
(24:34):
of what you are doing. You are now fitter, You
are now capable of more. If you are doing twenty
reps with five kilos in week one, you should not
be doing twenty reps with five kilos in week eight.
You are a fitter, leaner, stronger version of the previous you.
You need to change the stimuli to continue to get
that adaptation. The last thing, and it's the most beautiful, easy,
(24:58):
little icing on the cake one is incidental activity is
a great way to shift through plateaus. You work out
routine might not change that much. You're eating routine or
eating plan might not change that much, but you increase
your step intake, or you increase the amount of incidental
activity you're doing to complement those more structured, focused workouts
and that can move the needle too le. I hope
(25:18):
that helped. So that's it for another episode of the
wood Life. But before we disappear, I just wanted to
say thank you to everybody.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
I put in a little.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Request a couple of weeks ago to let me know
where in your world you listen to the podcast, and
so many of you have sent that through to our
Instagram at the WOODLFE Podcast. A huge thank you to
all of you for sending those in and please continue
to do so. And if you're not following us at
the Woodlife Podcast, give us a little follow and send
us a message at absolutely any time. And in regards
(25:54):
to chatting with Marika today, if there's someone that you
know that would have benefited from the listening to that conversation,
please please please share this episode with them. And I
think if you can share those learnings that have really
touched you or helped you in some way with someone
else that you think they will help, that's what it's
all about. Share the love. Have a great week, and
you'll see me again on Monday for another motivational moment.
(26:16):
See ya,
So I've been doing a little social experiment this week.
In conversations that I've been having with people. It might
be my work colleagues in the office during the week,
or close friends and family, or just making small talk
with members at the gym, or whatever it is. I've
been taking note just for this week of how often
(00:27):
those conversations revolve around food. I haven't actually done the math,
but I would say it's been about seventy percent of
the conversations. If you speak to that person for long enough,
you know, four or five minutes, you end up talking
about food. It might have been the restaurant that they
tried on the weekend. It might be the lunch they're
looking forward to having with a friend. It might be
(00:47):
the challenges they're having with a fussy eater who's their child. Whatever,
it doesn't really matter, but it is undeniable that for
so many of us, food is an absolutely integral part
of our lives. Our lives almost revolve around it.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Now.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
I'm married to a very passionate Macedonian woman who loves
her food like no one I've really met before, and
I love that she does, because she celebrates food and
she has such a healthy relationship with her whole family
do It's almost like the association with happy and family
and food all go together for Snares. So that then
made me think about how important a positive relationship with
(01:26):
food is. But the flip side to that is, and
this is where many people also struggle, that if you
don't have a positive relationship with food, if it is
a trigger for you for negative feelings and negative emotions
or negative behaviors, how much you're missing out on and
how much that must be impacting your happiness and your
(01:47):
enjoyment around socializing and friendships and your overall health. So
rather than me talk about this subject matter, I have
a wonderful nutritionist who's an expert in relationships with food
coming on the WOODLFE to join us today, and then
we're going to unpack this little question around plateaus.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
I feel like I'm starting to plateau in both my
weight and fitness. How do I know if I'm plateauing
and need to shake up my routine or is this
just my body and it isn't changing as much anymore
because this is just how it's supposed to be naturally.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
This is the Wood Life. I'm Sam Wood. Thanks for
joining us. Let's get into it. Our guest today on
(02:44):
the Wood Life is a dietitian and nutritionist. Got into
nutrition because she was continually frustrated by how it was
being taught and how it was being positioned, and she
wanted to be taught differently, and of course something that
we love here in the Wood Life. Make it simple.
Marika Day, Welcome and thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited
to be here.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
So I've followed you for a while. I love your stuff,
most importantly your philosophy around things. I think you've got
a really balanced approach. I know you got into this
space because of the frustrations that you're experiencing within the industry.
Can you kind of shed a bit of light into
how you got into it and what those specific frustrations were.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Yeah, sure, so I think the thing to begin with,
I got into nutrition because I didn't know what else
to do with.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
My career in life join the club.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
I was diagnosed with Celiac disease and just found it interesting.
I guess that you know the way that you eat
can affect your health and wellbeing so much so that
was how I initially got into nutrition. But then once
I actually had done my study and had become a
qualified dietitian and nutritionist and started working in private practice
seeing clients one on one. One of the things that
(04:00):
really killed me is that so many women in particular
were coming to me saying that they'd spent so much
of their energy, so much of their life focusing on dieting,
and that they really still hadn't had the opportunity to
enjoy life because they had hated their body their entire life.
And on the flip side, I was getting these young
girls coming in saying, well, I want to look like
(04:22):
this social media influencer. Can you give me a diet
to look like her? And so I was just seeing
the spectrum of like from the beginning to the end
of this life span of dieting for women, and I
was like, there's got to be another way. I'm not
buying into this.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
So what did you do about it? Let's go straight there.
What do you think the I guess the shake up
process or the redirection process needs to be for these people.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah, so I think for most of them, it is
moving away from focusing on your shape, your size, and
your weight and moving towards focusing on your health, your
well being, whether that be physically healthy, mentally healthy, nutritionally healthy.
There's so many different markets of health that we can
look at and having that emphasis on that total well being,
(05:07):
not just doing what we can at all costs to
look a certain way, and in the process also rebuilding
people's relationship with food, because after years of dieting, a
lot of people do get this really black or white
thinking when it comes to food, like I can't have that,
I can only eat that, and so just repairing that
relationship there.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
So let's talk about that because I think we talk
on this show a lot about relationships. Relationship with yourself
often is something that comes up, but relationship with food.
I mean people people think, what are you talking about?
You know, I'm dating a banana, you know, what's what
the hell's going on? What's this relationship with food? Are
you talking purely about my relationship with food? Is food
(05:48):
is the enemy? Or I need to restrict or remove
or replace rather than embrace and actually have a positive
relationship with food and look at all the positives that
food brings to us.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yeah, I think that's one aspect of it. So thinking
about what nutrition and what food does provide for us,
so from everything from like pleasure to joy to the
nutrients that it gives us, but also thinking about all
of the different contexts in which we consume food. So
for example, particularly you know, actually I was going to say,
particularly here in Australia, I think many cultures they use
(06:22):
food as a way to celebrate, as a way to connect,
as a way to you know, like you someone's birthday,
you usually have them over for dinner and drinks and whatnot.
So there is a really social and cultural sort of
thing around food that I think also plays into your
relationship with food. And again this is something that I
think a lot of people don't really think about when
(06:43):
it comes to their health and well being, is how
our social connections and our environment influence our health and
well being. And considering that in our relationship with food
means that we can actually engage socially in life whilest
still being healthy. So it's not just about you know,
declining the offers to go out to friends places for
dinners and whatnot because you're trying to be healthy. It's
(07:05):
actually accepting and embracing that that can actually be part
of your health and well being.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
It's so true. And I've seen that in the in
the fitness industry, in the gym industry for so long.
You know, people are so all or nothing that you
know they're in and they're really in, and that means
they aren't socialize with a single person for six months
while they become a complete hermit, while they're trying to
get a six pack, and they're they're loving what they're
(07:31):
at that particular point in time, what they're seeing in
the mirror, but deep down they're miserable and lonely, or
they're the other way. And to say to someone, is
this how you want to live for the rest of
your life? Is this really what you think is what sustainable,
enjoyable you know health looks like. Of course they don't
when you when you bring it up like that, but
(07:52):
it is a real problem. So when someone comes to you,
and I totally understand there's a myriad of different reasons
that someone may have a less an ideal relationship with food,
what advice, what steps do you take someone through to
begin to improve that relationship with food.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yeah, So I think one of the first things that
I get people to focus on is actually making sure
that they're eating enough food. Women in particular have been
trained our entire lives to reduce calories, reduce calories, reduce
calories at all costs, And one thing I find is
that people try and do that far too much, and
they end up under eating and therefore then binging or
(08:31):
you know, eating later in the evening because they're so hungry.
So one of the first steps I find to helping
people improve their relationship with food and you know, stop
binge eating and stop that emotional eating that feels really
hard to control, is to make sure that you know,
you're having a breakfast, lunch, and dinner that are actually
adequate in terms of calories and have balanced nutrition in there.
(08:52):
So there's fats, there's proteins, as carbs, they're not restricting
those primary main meals that are actually going to provide
them with the fuel that they need to be able
to make good decisions.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
So just on that, Marika, what is your take on
counting calories?
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yeah, so, I don't have strong opinions on it. I
would say that it works really well for some people.
For my audience and the people in my community, it's
quite triggering and quite damaging and leads them into quite
restrictive mindset, but I'm well aware that it does. It's
helpful for some people.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
I tend to share your opinion. To be honest, I
think it'd being a good education process for some people
because we don't quite understand the calorie a value that
particular foods have or don't have. But when you're thinking
of food as a number rather than the nutritional value
that it's bringing, then that's not where you want to be.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah, definitely. So one of the other strategies that I
have with this is coming at it from more a
psychological perspective, and I think this is really important when
our food and our psychology and the way that we
eat are so entwined, particularly when it comes to a
bad relationship with food. So one of the things that
I always encourage people to do is to think about
(10:10):
your coping strategies and what are your sources of joy
and pleasure in your life, Because for some people who
are incredibly time poor, who've got four kids running around,
don't have time for anything else, food is the chocolate
is the source of joy.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
I know took sneezees kit cats away from here right now,
how do you that might be a relationship. DA right there.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
It's okay to, like you said, it's okay to use
a KitKat as a source of joy, but it becomes
a problem when it's your only source of joy. So
when you have got no other coping strategies for stress,
or you've got no other coping strategies for certain emotions
that you might feel, turning to food all of the
time as your automatic coping mechanism can impede your relationship
(10:56):
with food, and it can, I guess, lead to you
not living in alignment with your values. So that's sort
of the way that I approach nutrition is when you
feel like it's overstepping the boundary where you're not living
a life in alignment with your values, then it's probably
time to start to identify. Okay, what are some other
coping strategies that I could use here? Or where else
(11:18):
can I go to for joy? If chocolate is the
only thing that I get joy out of, how can
I find joy in other areas of my life?
Speaker 1 (11:25):
I love that I see it often with you know,
the relationship with food and then the relationship with exercise.
You know, I'm always sort of saying it X, So
I shouldn't be a punishment. It should be a celebration
of what your body can do, not you know, sending
yourself out for ten kilometer runs because you're feeling so
guilty about you know, how you've not treated your body
(11:46):
the right way, and you know there's got to be
a balance there. There's very similar sort of psychology around
I think the thinking around that with exercises as there
is with eating.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yeah, definitely, I think we've been taught that it needs
to be a punishment and that if we're not hating it,
that it's not working, Whereas it's a complete opposite. Like
if you find exercise and movement that you enjoy and
that you love, that's far better for you in terms
of your health and wellbeing and your consistency and ability
to stick to that that it is if you hate it.
And the same goes for diet. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:14):
I mean, even in the simplest term, I exercise in
the morning is a proactive way to have a good day.
I don't exercise at night to punish myself because I
feel like I've overeaten, or you haven't moved enough or
whatever it might Whatever it might be, it's definitely a
proactive approach. All right, So you've spoken it, You've mentioned
a couple of times. I've just sort of picked up
(12:34):
on it. You've sort of said coping mechanisms. You say
that food is often one of these ways that we
one of these go to. Is what other? In a
more general term or in more general terms, America, do
you advise people to do or is it just such
a personal choice based on the individual.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yeah, it is a really personal choice. And I mean
there's so many things that you could do that bring
you pleasure and enjoy or help relief stress or help
you know when you're feeling down. I like to get
people to think about like hobbies, what sort of hobbies
are you engaging in? And this is a really surprising
one because most people who are above the age of
about twenty five don't have any hobbies, are particularly females.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
You know, it's funny you play sport or you have
sort of hobbies around your school friends, and then I
don't know, you lose your way a little bit. I
wanted to ask you. I just wanted to change check
a little bit because you like me, social media is
a big part of your life because it's a big
part of your job and the way you connect to people,
(13:38):
the way you can create content, the way you can
absorb content. I write articles for a few different publications,
and one of the publications asked me yesterday to write
an article about all these food videos that are popping
up on TikTok and did I think they are actually
helping people eat better or perhaps confusing people more? And
(14:00):
I thought was, well, look, I think a TikTok video,
if it encourages to get back in the kitchen and
cook more and have fun and try new recipes and
cook for your kids, can be a great thing. But
you've also got to think, well, where's this recipe coming from,
and what's the credibility of this person that's posting this,
and has it been designed to show me that it's
(14:21):
healthy or is it purely a treat and it's for fun?
You know, it really is our We need that responsibility
for ourselves to how we excuse the pun consume all
of this information. But I was just wondering what's your take,
And TikTok's just one example that's probably the most current example.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
I think it's who you follow. I don't think it
actually matters the platform, because I've definitely seen a lot
of damaging stuff on Pinterest as well. Ads that come
up there are a very shame driven around weight and
shape and size and detoxes and everything. So I don't
necessarily think it's the platform itself that creates the problem.
(15:00):
It's the people that you are engaging with on the platform.
And I think this is where there probably is the
difference between the platforms, because, like you said, with Pinterest,
you kind of have to search for what you're looking for,
whereas TikTok, you watch one video and then all of
a sudden you're in an algorithm feed that will produce
ten more of them, so you don't get to really choose.
(15:20):
And I guess the danger with that is if you
somehow land upon a video that is really unhealthy, whether
it be promoting disordered eating, or you know, is being
really shameful about weight, shape and size, or is just
providing really incorrect information about health and nutrition, then if
you watch that video, you're going to be continued to
(15:41):
be shown videos that are similar to that. So that's
where I guess TikTok, I think you need to be
really careful of what you're watching on there, and if
something that comes up that doesn't really align with again,
your values and how you see health and how you
see nutrition, then get past as quick as you can.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
The thing I worry about I couldn't agree with you
more in principle. But the thing I worry about is
a TikTok audience I'm sure is more likely a younger audience.
And I mean if I asked my sixteen year old
seventeen year old EV, if I said to her, when Ev,
you're scrolling through TikTok, just be aware of is the
information that you're consuming aligned with your values? I would
(16:22):
get to be the thigh roll of all freaking times.
She'd alone go away, like what you want about? So,
but your advice is really sound, But that's really hard
advice for a seventeen year old to get context around
or take on board. So, in more general terms, what
is your advice to people on using social media for
building community and absorbing recipes and improving their relationship with
(16:45):
food rather than the alternative?
Speaker 2 (16:47):
Yeah? So, I think there's sort of two parts to
social media when it comes to how we can improve it,
And one is our personal responsibility. Like you mentioned earlier
to I guess curate our own feed and to select
the people who we are following and make sure that
we are following people who are expressing a like a
healthy relationship with food, or who aren't body shaming, or
(17:09):
who aren't even driving you into a place of comparison.
So I always say to people that you know, there
might be people out there who mean really well, Like
someone might follow me and you know I am all
about health and balance and well being, yet when they
watch my stuff they get really triggered by it. Unfollow
me if that's the case, Like, unfollow the people who
are triggering that comparison within you, and create your own
(17:31):
feed that feels really good for you, so that when
you go on that platform and you spend five ten minutes,
hours whatever it ends up being, that you actually feel
good when you come off it. The other side of that,
I think there is a responsibility from companies as well
to take responsibility, like if you are in their health
(17:51):
and nutrition or well being space, is to sort of
promote a healthy message around nutrition and health rather than
driving like a weight loss approach in terms of sacrifice
everything in order to look a certain way. I think
that we do really need some more accountability when it
comes to that sort of thing as well.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
I'm glad you said that. I mean, through twenty eight
and through my own channels, I do promote products. So
I'm happy to you know somehow this is not going on.
Sand promotes products. I do, absolutely I do, but I
would promote maybe five percent of the products that come
across my desk. It's and you know, if it's a
food product, it goes to our nutrition team, it gets
the tick of approval, and ninety five percent of the
(18:31):
time it doesn't. And yeah, I share a lot of
your beliefs around social media. I mean the fact that
you're even comfortable saying if I am triggering you not
that is my intention to unfollow me. It's a really
good point because you know, we can't control everybody's reaction
to everything that we put out there. Sometimes you could
be putting a great educational workout out there, but you're
(18:55):
in your activewear and someone might be saying, oh, I
want to be just like Marica or whatever it is,
and it may not have the positive impact that you're
trying for it to have on everybody that watches it. Definitely,
I just wanted to finish with one final question for you, Marika,
because This has been really interesting, and I know you
don't do a lot of this these days, but you're
sitting there, You're in your clinical position or your consultation position,
(19:19):
and someone's coming in to see you for professional help.
So people perhaps don't have to get the professional help.
What is some of the best advice in absolutely any
facet of nutrition that you think people should hear that
is going to help them before they get to perhaps
that stage where they feel like they need that professional
(19:40):
one on one help.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
I don't think that there is anything that someone needs
to know before reaching professional help. So if somebody is
out there thinking, oh I might need professional help, you
don't need to know anything before reaching out for support.
So please reach out for support from your networks and
the doctor and everything if you need to. What I
would say to people in general so that they can
(20:02):
sort of try the best to prevent getting to that
point is I think that we should all know that
the way that we look doesn't define our worth, and
that we can choose to focus on our health and
well being and you know, living a really healthy and
balanced life without having to focus so intensely on our
shape and our weight, and in doing so, we are
(20:23):
likely to find more confidence, we are actually likely to
be more healthy and actually get more satisfaction and enjoy
from life as well.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
That is absolutely beautifully said. A great way to finish, Marika.
Thank you so much for joining us, and hopefully we
can speak again soon.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Thank you so much, Sam.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
What a great little chat with Marika day. He has
a very very well rounded, thoughtful approach to everything I
think that she does, and someone that I've followed for
a long time, as I said, and we'll continue to
follow for a long long time. We're moving on now
from Marika to a little question about plateauing. So we
(21:12):
talk a lot in this show about setting good habits,
eating well, sleeping well, moving more. But it's only natural
that there's going to come a time at some stage
we've perfected all these great new habits, but we're not
seeing a change, or we're not seeing a change at
the same rate that we once were. We call this
the p word plateauing, and it's very common. So we've
(21:35):
got a question that's come through the Woodlife in box
and it's a great question around plateauing. Here it is
from Lee.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Hey, Sam, I feel like I'm starting to plateau in
both my weight and fitness. How do I know if
I'm plateauing and need to shake up my routine or
is this just my body and it isn't changing as
much anymore because this is just how it's supposed to
be naturally.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Thanks Lee, what a great question. And you know why
it's such a great question, because I reckon you are
the spokesperson for hundreds of thousands of people out there
thinking the exact same thing. I totally understand what you
are asking. You're never going to get the same weight
loss or fitness results, or get them at the same
(22:20):
speed as when you are very very overweight or very
very unfit. There's obviously a lot more weight to lose.
Or if your fitness is starting from ground zero, you
can go from a zero to a five much easier
than you can go from a five to a ten.
There is absolutely an element of truth to that. But
and this is a big butt, and a really important butt.
(22:42):
I like big butts, no of them, Jack, I don't
know why I said that, Sorry, Lee. In regards to
whether or not you should accept a plateau, No, No,
you shouldn't. And I think I think too many of us.
And this is why I think it's such a wonderful question.
I think too many of us accept plateaus as being
normal without actually looking at what we're doing or what
(23:04):
we're not doing. Probably is more to the point, if
nothing changes, nothing changes, and our bodies are smart. If
you are doing the same workout routine, or you are
consuming the same amount of calories for an eight to
twelve week period, it is completely natural and normal that
the results you were getting at the start of that
(23:26):
twelve weeks will not continue anywhere near the same rate.
In fact, could level out completely by the end of
that eight to twelve week period. So you need to
shake things up. You need to make a change. We'll
talk food first, because that's a bit simpler and a
bit more mathematical. If you were one hundred kilos at
the start of your weight loss journey and you are
(23:47):
now eighty kilos consuming the same a met forget calories.
Just consuming the same amount of food at eighty kilos
is not going to reduce the weight at the same
rate it did it one hundred kilos because you are
a much smaller person. You are twenty percent smaller. So
there needs to be a point where you start to
make slight adjustments. Nothing radical, slight adjustments to your portion
(24:11):
sizes in line with the fact that you're twenty percent
smaller exercise. There's even more ways to shake it up.
Change the type of exercise that you do. Change the
time of exercise, and I don't mean the time of day.
I mean the amount that you are doing. The ten
minute run becomes the twenty minute run, the thirty minute
workout becomes the forty five minute workout. Change the intensity
(24:34):
of what you are doing. You are now fitter, You
are now capable of more. If you are doing twenty
reps with five kilos in week one, you should not
be doing twenty reps with five kilos in week eight.
You are a fitter, leaner, stronger version of the previous you.
You need to change the stimuli to continue to get
that adaptation. The last thing, and it's the most beautiful, easy,
(24:58):
little icing on the cake one is incidental activity is
a great way to shift through plateaus. You work out
routine might not change that much. You're eating routine or
eating plan might not change that much, but you increase
your step intake, or you increase the amount of incidental
activity you're doing to complement those more structured, focused workouts
and that can move the needle too le. I hope
(25:18):
that helped. So that's it for another episode of the
wood Life. But before we disappear, I just wanted to
say thank you to everybody.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
I put in a little.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
Request a couple of weeks ago to let me know
where in your world you listen to the podcast, and
so many of you have sent that through to our
Instagram at the WOODLFE Podcast. A huge thank you to
all of you for sending those in and please continue
to do so. And if you're not following us at
the Woodlife Podcast, give us a little follow and send
us a message at absolutely any time. And in regards
(25:54):
to chatting with Marika today, if there's someone that you
know that would have benefited from the listening to that conversation,
please please please share this episode with them. And I
think if you can share those learnings that have really
touched you or helped you in some way with someone
else that you think they will help, that's what it's
all about. Share the love. Have a great week, and
you'll see me again on Monday for another motivational moment.
(26:16):
See ya,
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