August 14, 2024 • 49 mins
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Jump into the world of sports photography with this illuminating episode of Workflows. Scott Wyden Kivowitz chats with the highly successful volume sports photography duo Jay and Carinna Boatwright, who has garnered acclaim for their photography work, business, and hands-on, comprehensive workshops.
Discover the secrets behind successful volume sports photography as Jay and Carinna reveal their incredible techniques for capturing vivid, dynamic sports portraits. From strategic lighting setups to the critical role of CRM systems, they share their insights into efficiently managing and growing a high-volume photography business. You'll learn about their preferred tools and software, such as ShootQ and PhotoDay, and how they optimize their workflow using Imagen.
Jay and Carinna live in the metro Atlanta area and have been married for 26 years with three adult children. Jay has a degree in marketing, and Carinna has a culinary degree. Both are self-taught in the photo industry, with their backgrounds providing a strong business sense of how to run a fast-paced volume sports photography company. smaX Photography was born by accident 16 years ago and has evolved from a two-man show to a thriving 1.7 million dollar small business with 5 full-time employees. Jay and Carinna created Boatwright Bootcamp 5 years ago to help educate other photographers on their proven methods. Volume sports didn't have to mean boring on-camera flash and factory-style shooting. Creativity and artistry could be utilized in a high-energy environment to excite photographers and get them on track to make their passion a job.
"Using Imagen for editing has been revolutionary—it saves us about 20 hours a week, allowing more time for creativity and other business opportunities."
Why You Should Listen
- Gain expert insights into sports photography from seasoned professionals.
- Learn how to efficiently manage a high-volume photography business.
- Discover the best tools and software to streamline your workflow.
- Understand the importance of strategic lighting and camera use in sports photography.
- Be inspired by Jay and Carinna's open sharing of their knowledge and expertise.
Resources
Don't miss out on Jay and Carinna's expert advice—tune in now to elevate your sports photography skills and streamline your workflow. Subscribe to Workflows wherever you get your podcasts, and leave us a review to let us know what you think!
- (00:00) - 044
- (01:39) - Business Dynamics and Roles
- (03:30) - What is one thing that you do for the photographic process that has saved you time?
- (06:20) - What is one thing that you do for the business that saves you time or money?
- (11:39) - What is one thing that you do for editing that has saved you time?
- (13:33) - Portrait Crop in Imagen
- (22:30) - What is one thing that you do after a session that has increased business?
- (26:51) - Setting Up for Hockey Portraits
- (31:51) - Can you share an outlined breakdown of your workflow from lead to delivery?
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:12):
Jay and Carinna, it's so niceto, to see your faces again
and to speak with you again.
we were just together.
Just over a month ago.
Can you believe that thatcame and went so fast?
Oh my
I was, yes.
that was,
it's been a month.
Yeah.
yeah, it's, that was, I think I mentionedthis to you as we parted ways, down in
(00:35):
Georgia, but that was one of the mosthands-on workshops I've ever witnessed.
And, if you are a volume sportphotographer who is looking to dig in
deeper, I strongly recommend to check outthe, a Boatwright bootcamp because it's
hands down, one of the most engaging,most interactive, one of the most
(00:59):
educational workshops I've ever seen.
But, it is specific to sport photography.
so.
It was, yeah, it was cool.
It was cool.
It was, everybody at work keepsasking me how to describe it.
And the way I keep describing, to reallydrill it in that like you're not just
showing up and taking pictures of peoplethat you're doing a full production, is,
(01:22):
I describe it as it's a movie productionset for sport photography, like.
That's the way I, that's the way I,I, I, I describe it to everybody and
that like, it makes 'em understand.
So, welcome and, nice to see you again.
Yes.
Its good to see you.
Yeah.
Well, thank you for having
us.
Yeah, thank you.
Awesome.
so we're gonna dive right intothe first question I ask every
(01:44):
guest, and it's not often that Ihave two people I get to speak to.
And this is fun justfor everybody who, um.
who is listening, who is not aware of you?
You, both of you, your business.
Can you quickly explain to allthe listeners why I asked both
of you to join this conversation?
Specifically?
(02:05):
Well, I think it's, it.
It's a lot like inviting.
If you were to have a restaurant,that's how I would think about it.
Like Jay's the front of the house.
I'm the back of the house.
I'm making sure everything's happening.
Oh, and there's another back ofthe house, Finn, who just joined
our dog.
The office.
The office dog.
Yeah, the
office dog.
but I would say that's,that's how it would happen.
Like if you were to, to beinterviewing a restaurant, you
(02:28):
couldn't just do just a chef, really.
You're going to it.
It kind of encompasses everything.
and, and that's how our, our businessworks is that you have to have a strong
front and back of the house to, tomake volume sports in particular work.
Yeah.
Kare and I are very different.
We're different and we reallyplay off each other's strengths.
Yeah.
(02:49):
And that was one thing that youdrilled in, at the, at the bootcamp
was, was the fact that, you know,if somebody has a question about.
The photographic process, whichis actually gonna be my first
question once we get to it.
then like go to Jay.
But if somebody has a question abouta certain business thing and like
the reasoning why it's done thisway, whatever, go to Carinna, right?
So you guys, started out sayinglike, you know, here's the, here's
(03:14):
how we work together, but here's aseparation and why it works so well.
And that was why I, I said, I'mgonna have you both on because.
Yes.
At, in this, podcast, I ask questionsabout photographic and business.
So that's why, it's just, it's awesome.
Okay.
What is one thing that you dofor the photographic process?
(03:34):
This is behind the camera.
That saves you time.
it has to be, just taking the, I,this will probably be the common
answer for most photographers, buttake doing it right in the camera.
You know, we have our lighting setup, we have, it pretty much dialed in.
We have a system for it.
And I think that just beingconsistent on the lighting, is where
(03:55):
we're gonna save it the most time.
Also, Also the new features of themirrorless camera, I think really help
us is we have crop lines in our camera.
'cause most of the photos thatwe crop are eight by 10 ratios.
So we have crop lines eight by10 ratios set up in our camera,
and we also have levels in there.
So we make sure that not only arewe shooting with the correct amount
of space between the head, and thefeet, but also we're shooting level.
(04:16):
So getting lighting right in cameraand making sure that you're, you're
cropping your photo correctlyand you have everything level is
probably what saves us the most time.
Yeah.
That was one of the things that, I, I,I had a feeling you were gonna say that
because of how much effort you put into.
with your lighting set up, the system,you have to ensure your lighting is set
(04:38):
up consistently every job that you have.
I knew that was going to be your answerand I'm glad that you brought it up.
I've never, again, like I've neverseen anything like it before.
Like, I've been to a lot of workshops.
I've never seen anything likeit, and it was very impressive.
and it, and it makes sensefor such high volume to have
something in place to guarantee.
(04:59):
A hundred percent of the timeyour lighting is consistent.
so,
Yeah.
Right.
And we do provide thatto the Bootcampers too.
So anybody who does attend our bootcamp,we make sure that they have the tools
they're gonna leave with those exact.
Same tools, down to a science,that we have, so that way everybody
can be guaranteed the same.
You know, for us, photography wise, it,it has to be the same every single time.
(05:22):
And just, just to, just tostress that a little bit.
When you say the right tools, you're notjust saying the education, you actually
physically gave them the tools thatthey need for your, for your system,
which is even more impressive, the factthat, they 100% A to Z were able to
leave their, with everything they needfor that specific thing in particular.
(05:47):
Yeah, that's pretty cool.
'cause it's very specific workshop.
You know, if you're in that business,this is like kind of like a business
in a, here's the package, here's whatyou needed to be do to be successful.
Mm-Hmm.
Yep.
Yeah.
And you guys, you guys didn't holdback anything that, that your students
needed to beat to, to, to have asuccessful business in your genre?
(06:10):
They, they, they were able to get itno matter, you know, you weren't gonna.
Gatekeep, anything you were just given,you know, this one's for you, Carinna.
Yes.
What is one thing you do for thebusiness that saves you time or money?
And we're gonna get toImagen down the road.
So let's skip Imagen for the time being.
but in general, one thing you do for thebusiness that saves you time or money.
(06:34):
Right.
It would be making sure that youhave the right, the CRM software, and
whatever online for us, the onlineplatform, that is gonna host the picture.
So everything kind of behindthe scenes, it has to be.
Perfect.
It has to be completely seamless.
so whatever type of software it isthat you're using in particular,
it has to, it has to fall in line.
(06:56):
You have to use it exactly thesame way every single time.
you have to have, very rigid For me,I'm extremely rigid on my processes.
so that way I'm not, not forgetting,any, any, points and, and, And so that
way when we show up to a shoot, whatthat's gonna do is that, that's gonna
guarantee, I mean, I pretty much knowthat, that I'm gonna vet the, the league,
(07:19):
the league that we're going to hire,and then, I'm gonna know exactly what
it is that, that how much money it is agood idea, what we're gonna be making.
so for, for me, that, that saves me timeis that I don't ever have to go back.
And like backtrack and be like, okay,what is it that we talked about?
Like I have everything outlinedperfectly, in my software programs,
everything, all my processes thatonce I, from one to five, I'm
(07:44):
gonna follow those steps exactly.
To ensure that when we showup for the shoot, everything's
gonna go perfectly smooth.
Yeah.
What, what are some of those softwaresthat you're using to see around
the gallery that that is helping?
Because I'm going to guess.
10 years ago you were pure paper, right?
Give or take.
Now you're not, you know, now it's,there's a lot of digital, which
(08:07):
definitely can help streamline.
So what are some of those, those,software that you're using that,
that has helped with those?
sure.
So I use ShootQ For my CRM softwareand for me, it's not like I have
to keep track of every singlecustomer, who's ordering from us.
My main customer is goingto be my lead contact.
So the board member, the team o, whoeverit is that handles that, that entire
(08:30):
program, that's gonna be the personthat I'm gonna be in contact with, to
make sure everything runs smoothly.
I'm able to create workflows even inthat, you know, talking about workflows,
I create my workflows in there.
So I'm gonna have automatic emailsthat are gonna pop out to them.
questionnaires about the location,just reminders that they get sent.
and for me that saves me a load of time.
(08:52):
so that way when.
As soon as I book my customer, which isgonna be my league, is that I'm gonna
send out, it's gonna have a workflowand it's gonna send out automatically
to my board member and that's how it'sgonna end up, saving me time there.
I don't have to go back and,and make sure I've sent, you
know, one through five emails.
It's automatically gonna do that for me.
I have it all set up.
And then also, for the software thatwe use for, For selling our pictures.
(09:16):
The online platform is PhotoDay, so they,for us, we just upload everything there.
They, they host the pictures andthey do pretty much all of the text
marketing, email marketing, everythingthat, that it is that we need,
that takes care of it on that end.
So as soon as I upload the pictures,I don't have to look at anything for.
12 weeks, honestly.
(09:37):
there's some instances where Idon't look at it for 12 weeks.
I open it back up and I look andsee what we did for the sales.
So, yeah, so I use PhotoDay for that.
so just to, branch out a bit fromthe sport genre in the wedding
space, for example, there'soff, a lot of photographers
are automating as well, right?
And there's a, some instances whereyou might need to stop an automation,
(09:59):
for example, after a person getsmarried, it's a year later, let's
say they got divorced, right?
You might wanna stop anautomated anniversary email.
are there any instances now going backto sport, are there any instances where
there's sort of this like emergency,like red alert, I gotta stop an email
from going out type of situation thatyou have come across, in, during your,
(10:21):
you know, your time with automation.
Right.
no, actually, if anything it's been,it's really been my best friend.
It's been my best tool, because I can sendout emails that say, Hey, if you're not
my contact person for next year, who is?
so, you know, that alwayskeeps me in the loop.
It, it, my, that automation alwayskeeps me in the loop and it, it's
never really backfired for me.
(10:42):
Awesome.
That's great to hear.
You never know, like I, you know, Iphotographed action sports before.
But not enough that I needed to automate.
So I've never thought about thatuntil, until just now about, what
kind of red alerts might you run into?
So,
Well, it's a little differentin the industry 'cause we
have two customers, right?
We have the final customer, whichis actually buying the photos.
Mm-Hmm.
(11:02):
But then our other customer isthe, the head of the organization.
So if there's 500 base kids, in a baseballleague, we have the board that we have
to, that's our number one customer.
And then the number two customerwould be all the parents
that we sell the photos to.
Mm-Hmm.
So we are having to pleasetwo separate people.
So you know her, her software is.
Geared towards her CRM softwareis geared towards the board
(11:24):
where the PhotoDay software is.
That's all geared towardsthe final consumer.
Mm-Hmm
yeah.
Nice.
let's move into editing.
Let's, pre Imagen, right?
what is one thing you do, andI think you might have just
mentioned this earlier, but, somaybe it'll, it'll come up as well.
What is one thing you do forthe editing that saves you time?
(11:46):
F for I, well, I'll let Carinnaanswer on, on her end what she might
do, because we have different jobs.
You know, I'll do the photos thanshe actually does the editing.
But for me, the biggest thing wasis just making sure there wasn't.
Light stands in the photos or scrims inthe photos are just, you know, because
we shot, we, we basically cropped bycropped and edited by hand before Imagen.
(12:06):
And so your, your mind when you'retaking photos and the wind blows
and the scrim comes in your way,you're like, oh, I can crop that out.
That's what you're thinking, you know?
And with Imagen we don't want to do that.
We want it to be as clean as possiblefor, so for us, it's just making
sure that we have a, a clean set.
You know, there's no light stands, there'sno, there's no trash, there's no anything.
(12:27):
There's no, I can crop that out later.
You know what I'm saying?
Like we want, if we want all thecropping to go through smoothly and
quickly, then we have to make sure thatwe have a clean set on, on, on shoot.
Or that's you,
right?
Right.
Well, you know, previously, before,you know, we are Imagen, users, so,
but previously we did have an, an Iguess you would say, Across the world.
(12:49):
Yeah.
Off offsite editor.
Yes.
Offite editor.
Yes.
And we sent him everything.
And so, he took care of, careof everything for us, but it
was, it was just very difficultjust to list logistics of it.
I mean, one of my main jobs in theoffice at that point was just making
sure everything was sent properly.
it was uploaded properly.
I mean, again, we did everything by hand.
(13:10):
So this editor did everything byhand, and then we came through and
we double checked everything by hand.
So everything, all of the pictureswould always, every single
one would be touched, by us.
And so now with Imagen though, Imean just running it through, it's.
Spot checks.
Yeah.
(13:30):
Now it's just spot check, checkingspot checks, which is a lot nicer.
Yeah.
This, this is a goodopportunity to bring up.
What is, any day from thetime this episode airs.
any day now, there's a newfeature that's gonna be an Imagen.
It's something that, was, you know, inpartnership, with, with you both, with
partnership with some other photographersthat we've consulted with to.
(13:53):
get a new crop specificto your needs in place.
In Imagen, and what we'recalling it is portrait crop.
So what that is is, anybody can goto, sport can go to school category
when they're going to edit, andyou'll see two different crop modes.
You'll see crop, which is theoriginal crop that Imagen always had.
(14:16):
And you'll see portrait crop andportrait crop will do your exact
crop of that, space above the head.
Space above the feet, four by five,or which is also eight by 10, and
will center the, the, the student,the, the player, whatever in the
frame, exactly how you've been.
(14:36):
Framing it in camera with your cropmarks and, getting it perfect every time.
And it's very exciting thatit's, it's gonna be here.
And, it's only a matter of weeks,hopefully, knock on wood, when
we have the same feature forfive by seven also available too.
So, that's very exciting.
so I know our product team is grateful tohave worked with you on that to, to get it
(14:59):
out there and, it's, exciting that it's.
Finally here again, withindays of this episode airing.
So,
Yes, me too.
And you know, we can go in moredetail what our workflow was used
to be like compared to Imagen ifyou want to get there, but the crop.
Situation is a big game changerfor us because we, you know,
we generate a lot of photos.
(15:20):
So, having the feeling that we canupload to Imagen and crop and editing
is done and we can move on is, iskind of a life changing thing really.
I can't really, it is not exaggeration.
It is like, it could belife changing for us,
right?
Because, you know, for your audience.
For us, we consider volume.
I mean, it can be anythingover a hundred kids.
(15:41):
but I, I typically, we don't typicallydo anything less than that, but it's
gonna be like a hundred kids, we cantake up to 12, 1500 kids in a day.
So you're talking about, for us,we do what's called progression.
So.
Jay's gonna do a bunch ofdifferent looks for these kids.
They're gonna be aboutfive different looks.
So when you're going through andyou have that many pictures that you
(16:02):
have to edit and, you know, of eachathlete, it's, it can really pile up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It, I mean, doing that one by onefor each kid and you know, like
once they change the pose, yes.
You've got your, your, your, your markersof where the, where the kid's gonna stand.
You've got your lighting in place.
You are quite literally sittingin a, in a chair on the ground.
(16:25):
and, and you are, everybody's,everything is fixed.
The only thing that's moving so much.
Is the kid.
Right.
And that slight change in
change angles.
Yep.
Mm-Hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That, that slight change in poseis while, while it might be minor,
when it gets to the editing point.
It's not so minor anymore 'cause you'vegot so many that you have to go through.
(16:46):
so that is, it is somethingthat, that, you know, I know it's
gonna save you a ton of time.
I know it's gonna save, many othervolume shooters a whole lot of time.
is there anything else youwanna share about, about that,
before we keep moving on?
The crop tool.
Sure.
Crop, before, before,Imagen had it or, or now,
Well, I mean, you know, I guess,and I just, what do we estimate?
(17:07):
We're probably saving 20 hours a weeksince we switched from doing everything
by hand to So it's been a huge thing.
And the crop, I mean the crop tool,the crop in straightening is where
I, why I first came to Imagen, 'causethe straightening tool wasn't just
the Lightroom tool, it was, youknow, it really was doing a good job.
'cause when you're shooting sports, youhave a lot of fences in the background.
You have a lot of stadiums andyou know, you have different, you
(17:29):
know, W well, you gave parallel.
Mm-Hmm.
The horizon.
Yeah, the
horizon line.
So, you know, I would, I wouldhave a hard time adjusting
him, by hand myself, you know?
so Imagen did a great job and that's whywe originally went with Imagen compared
to the, in any of the other AI companies.
So having a, a smart crap crop tool, notjust something that's, you know's, gonna
(17:50):
randomly do, you know, the same thing,like a batch is gonna be, you know, Yeah,
I mean, we're gonna be able to either takemore time off or gain new, get new leads.
Either one of those is finewith me, so it's a huge deal.
Yeah.
When we, when you say 20hours, we're talking about
20 hours a person, so, right.
So it's not like 20 hours, youknow, maybe, and, and maybe
(18:11):
I'm saving my editor 20 hours.
No, I'm talking about the entire office.
Like it's really, as opposed togetting the images back and let's
say we shoot, we're gonna shoot allweekend, we're gonna come back with.
You know, I don't, 20,000images, let's just say.
and to go through, I mean, now wecan, before we would, maybe if we
didn't have anything else goingon, we'd have 'em up by Friday.
(18:33):
Now we have them up.
And this is like even kind of being alittle bit lazy no later than Wednesday.
by Monday, usually everything's done.
Tuesday, we're spotchecking everything and.
You know, doing some other office work.
And then for sure by Wednesdaymorning I have everything posted,
on PhotoDay, which is huge.
I'm gonna be really interested to seenumbers wise, what that's going to do,
(18:55):
because, you know, near the end of theseason for us it's, it's things we're
getting like two weeks behind becausewe are just like shooting and we're
coming back to the office and editingand shooting and editing and, and it
is just like a never ending cycle.
And so.
Now I'm, I'm really interested to seehow the numbers are gonna play out for
us, being able to turn those imagesaround so quickly for my customers.
(19:15):
We're almost gonna have to holdonto 'em for a minute 'cause
then it's gonna look too easy.
I know.
I was like,
we need to hold, let's hold onthese two for a couple days.
'cause I don't wanna looklike it's, it is too simple.
Know.
That's what I
did for yesterday, so I waslike, I can't post this.
Yeah,
yeah.
I got home from a shoot, we didour first shoot yesterday and it
was just this little small shoot,but, you know, literally I came
back to the office and ran it.
I mean, I had it done and, you know.
(19:37):
10 minutes.
Yeah.
And posted the PhotoDay, ready to go.
And I guess you, I'm like, yeah,we're gonna hold onto it for a day.
At least we did something.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
at a, at Imagen one of our taglinesis Imagen the possibilities and, when
we're thinking about volume, school,volume, sport photographers, I think it's
more Imagen the opportunities, right?
(19:59):
Because now, you know, it's very much.
yes, yes.
All of this is gonna save you guys enoughtime where you could go and go on more
trips and, and spend more time out withthe dog and, and the kids and and so on.
But, but I think it's a lot of, it's gonnaunlock even more business opportunities.
'cause now you've got, you're gonnahave even more of this, time to.
(20:22):
To bring on more leagues, moreteams, do more Bootcamps, et cetera.
Right.
So I I'm also very excited to see
Yeah.
Yeah.
We've very much, anytime we, we,save time doing something, we somehow
managed to fill it with more business.
but you know, that's the thing islike, that's what we're good at though.
Jay's great at shooting, he'sgreat at educating either other.
(20:44):
Our photographers, you also shoot.
I'm great at, at keeping track ofeverything and making sure everything
is gonna go as smoothly as possibleand, and we're gonna run this business.
And so that's for us that,that's exciting for us.
You know, I don't, I don'tlike the editing part.
I don't like, I, I don't like,you know, we, we have, Our,
our lab partner is Reedy Lab.
(21:07):
And, we, we learned very early on, wedid not like stuff in those envelopes
with pictures and sending those, likewe were really bad at it by the way.
And so just to be able to focus onthe things that we're really good at,
that's what Imagen allows us to do.
Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm.
Yeah.
That, that, I think that oftentimeswhat happens when you have something
like this that frees you up with somuch time, things happen that you
(21:28):
really can't anticipate and what,you know, it'll give me more time
to have a better, education process.
Like Carinna said, for our photographerstraining photo, I could do more
social media stuff, which mightbring in a different type of client.
there's just so many things you cando when you're not burnt out because
before imagining we were literally.
Taking photos, we were due, anywherebetween seven and 10 shoots a week.
(21:49):
Then we're back in the office editingand our days are like, you know,
they were from 10 to 10 is what ourdays looked like, and you just had
zero time to think about anythingelse besides shooting and editing.
So, mm-hmm.
By taking the editing off of us, whichwas the most time, then we're gonna
have, I think we're gonna come upwith all kind of creative stuff and
that's, it makes the job fun again.
(22:10):
yeah.
I can't wait to see whatyou guys wind up doing.
from here on, it's gonna, it's
too.
so, my next question to you,it's still business related.
What is one thing you do after, typicallyI ask one thing you do after a session,
but I'm gonna say after you do a full dayof, you know, an entire league, right?
(22:30):
what is one thing you do aftera day that, increases business?
And by the way, this could be.
I'm gonna do a twist on this.
It could be during, because you guysdo a lot of stuff during as well.
So let's say either during orafter that increases business.
Okay.
You go first.
That increases business.
well, I, I, I automatically justthought about you, that you're always
(22:53):
out looking for the, the board members.
For other leagues, or if they'rewith the rec department, we're
always trying to figure out how we'regonna get at the different sport.
yeah, I mean, typically for, for, for my,my job, when I'm on site, typically I'm on
site Carinna's at the office and on site.
If a shoot goes smoothly, I.
Typically the people that are gonnabe sticking around afterwards, have
(23:15):
influence, at that, that, that league,and of course maybe other leagues in
the community because, you know, the,the different board members talk to
each other, different parks, you know,maybe I'm dealing with a baseball
board director, but they're also siton the board of a football league.
So when we just had a successful shootand everybody's excited, and typically
during the shoot I'm uploading somephotos to Facebook that I really
(23:38):
like, that I'm taking at the shoot.
You know, to get parents excited,get the board excited, say, Hey,
photo, today's going great today.
Here's some of the samples of your league.
And we post some photos.
And then so everybody's on a high, youknow, everybody's real excited about
how everything went, and that's a reallygood time to start asking for more
business if you get the opportunity.
So we, you know, that's been areally good way for us to, to, to
(23:59):
grow, organically and not reallyhave to go and chase people.
We're just like, you know, you knowhow personal introduction's the
best, so I do that as much as I can.
Mm-Hmm.
Awesome.
Awesome.
you?
I think more business like the, theway she markets after the shoot.
Like she has like a couple times ayear where she does like a, your little
special or you expire stuff, right?
(24:19):
Yeah.
I
expire stuff.
I expire galleries make it, there's,there's some type of deadline
to, to some of the galleries.
So,
your last chance offersmake us a lot of money.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we do a lot of,
a last chance to buy a print of yourkid before the gallery expires in
Or goes up in price.
Yeah.
Mm-Hmm.
Yeah, I usually do those at, at
Twice a during
(24:40):
slow season.
Mm-Hmm.
When we need some money.
Yeah,
yeah.
When there's no sports going on.
So it's a good bump though.
it's, it's a very, very, very good bump.
Yes.
It's
really, yeah.
It's really, it's significant.
But, you know,
for me, I, I do, expire my galleries, butI always, I, I have something that's gonna
tell the customer that we're expiring it,but then I, I do expire it, but then I go
(25:03):
on the next day and I reopen everything.
It's just more expensive.
So, so they do, there is an urgency to it.
but yeah, people, it really helps.
Mm-Hmm.
Yeah.
Get through the slow season.
Outta curiosity, for those who arenot familiar with the Georgia area,
what are the top three sports thatyou, that you're photographing
(25:24):
throughout the the sports season?
Mm-Hmm.
The top three would be, the topmoney makers would be the traditional
ones, football, cheer, and baseball.
Softball.
Actually softball doesreally good here too.
Yeah.
and we got
a gigantic basketball league, soit is the ma the major sports.
But percentagewise, no.
But percentage wise I would,I would say, sales wise would
be baseball, football, cheer.
(25:44):
Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm.
what is the, the least obvious sportthat you wouldn't, people, most
people wouldn't expect that you've,that you've photograph either here
and there or on a regular basis.
For Atlanta hockey.
Yeah.
Ice hockey in Atlanta.
We shoot a lot of ice hockey.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah,
that was, I, I loved hockey growing up.
(26:05):
I did baseball and hockey growing up, but
Well, I, you know, being the icehockey photos are always fantastic too.
We really love shooting 'em.
So we're fortunate we getto be on the ice here.
a lot of photographers up north don'tget to be on the ice to have to do
composites and things like that.
And we are, we don't do composites.
We're, you know, field of play.
Or a, a really cool backdrop.
That's all we do.
And so, our hockey photos are on theice and that was a bit of a challenge,
(26:29):
you know, a learning curve for me'cause I never played hockey growing up.
So, but now we're really goodat it and we really enjoy it.
And you know, this, that's actually avery good point that you made, is that
we do take pictures on the field to play.
So we are not composite photographersfor us, everything is gonna
be in the natural background.
I always say kinda likethe natural habitat.
Yeah.
(26:50):
So, that's
mean, literally you're doingdugouts, like literally in the,
Yeah.
in the habitat.
Yes.
Yeah, exactly.
first of all, that's gotta be a nicechange of pace from the Georgia heat
to go onto the ice, every so often.
but also what do you do withlight stands on the ice?
Do you put rugs down firstor do you just plop 'em down?
(27:13):
Yeah, we just put 'em down.
sometimes, you know, you havethose little rubber stoppers.
I usually, I use them,I use the man photo.
We're traveling all the time.
So I have stackable stands or theManfrotto is the 1 1 0 0 4 BAC, I
think is the, and they're stackable.
Since we're traveling all the time,we have to have gear that, that,
you know, folds down pretty tight.
So I use those stands.
They have little rubber stoppers,you know, that keep from scratching
(27:34):
floors and some, sometimes youset the, the stands on the ice.
They have the Zamboni that goes around,you know, and the ice a little bit wet.
You put the stand down and then,you know, we have to get off after
every session, so every 45 minuteswe're taking the lights back off.
And so sometimes those little thingsget stuck on the ice, but for the most
part, yeah, you just throw the, the,the light stands right on the, on the
(27:54):
ice and the Zamboni cleans up anythingthat, you know, if it made it a little
indentation, it'll take care of it.
Nice.
That's, that's gotta be a lot of fun.
It is.
okay, so, this is going to be a fun one.
Again, I've never done thiswith two people before.
So between the two of you, you'regotta decide, pick a color,
(28:15):
Pick a color.
Oh, I'm not,
pick a color.
hold on.
Let's make it bigger so we can see.
Let's see.
Oh, I like this one.
Yellow.
Yeah, we both liked, yeah, your left.
All right.
I'm gonna thumb through the deck.
one of you just tell me when to stop.
Okay.
Okay.
You tell me.
(28:36):
Stop.
Okay.
I'd like for both of you toanswer whatever this question is.
Okay.
Okay.
is my favorite part of the showbecause it's like complete, I have
no idea what I'm about to ask you.
Okay.
I've had this question beforewith somebody else that's funny.
What is something you don'tmind paying more money for?
(28:56):
It fell out.
What was the question?
What's something you don'tmind paying more money
money for?
I know my
It does not have to bephotography related.
It could be anything
Okay.
what do I not mind?
A great steak.
nice.
I love a steakhouse experience, like areally great luxury high-end steakhouse.
(29:21):
Ugh.
Doesn't
we did hear that at the, at the bootcamp.
You are a foodie, so that
I am.
I am.
Yeah.
Very on brand.
yes, yes, yes.
Okay.
Mine's gonna be a little bit cheesy,but you know, it is what it is.
mine is definitely Imagen because,because we're paying, yes.
Because we're paying a little bit morethan we paid our editor, I think, right?
(29:42):
For volume.
So it's a little bit more, butI don't mind paying 'cause it's.
than paid for it.
You know what it, it's, it's moreexpensive dollar wise, but as far as you
include time, it's, it's less expensive.
Mm-Hmm.
You know what I mean?
But we knew, I knew goingon that this was gonna be
Okay.
So what would be, what else Your, okay.
I told you what would be your answer if,
(30:02):
if it wasn't, Imagen itcan't not including, Imagen,
yeah.
If it was not, but you
didn't say that, but, okay.
what
do you not mind paying for?
What am I not mind paying for?
So I think the last person I askedthis question to is Jerry Ghionis
Um, and he said, going to see a reallygood show, like, a Lady Gaga show
mm mm-Hmm.
famous jazz musician or whatever, likehe was like over the top, like, I'll
(30:25):
spend a fortune on something that epic.
Yeah.
I mean, golf, probably golf for me.
And experience like golf.
Like golf, I love, yeah.
If I, I experiences
trips.
We really like to travel.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I love a good golf course with acaddy in the whole, and like spoil myself.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's, I love that.
Mm-Hmm.
Have you ever done one of those,like celebrity tournaments where
(30:46):
like you're the Joe Schmo that'splaying with a celebrity I,
No, but I don't reallyget that starstruck.
I mean, I've met some famous golfersbefore, 'cause I, I grew up playing golf.
and I would be more about being with myfriends at a really good, good golf course
rather than playing with a celebrity.
That's not really my, my thing.
They're just like a regularguy, just like everybody else.
You know?
(31:07):
I like to, I like to play like, just beat a beautiful landscape is my thing.
Yeah.
I have never played a, so my, mygrandfather was a big golfer, and growing
up, like they moved down to Florida likemany Jersey grandparents do eventually.
And, you know, I, I would go downthere and he'd always say, Hey,
do you wanna go play golf with me?
(31:28):
And I'd.
No, I don't wanna do golf.
But we would go to the range and wewould, I would just hit balls all day.
mm-Hmm.
That, I mean, it's just like goingto the, going to the batting cages,
like just hitting all day long is,is nothing better for me at least.
but I'm sure one day in my life I willactually play around, around a golf.
You should.
You should.
(31:48):
Mm-Hmm
yeah.
so.
I typically ask a question aboutoutlining your, do an outline breakdown
of your workflow from lead to delivery.
But I'm gonna again,twist this a little bit.
I would love for the both of you to sharean outline breakdown of how a typical
day, or if it is like a full, a big,big, big lead that needs multiple days.
(32:09):
Just in general, how does a, a day ofvery high volume, you're doing 1500 kids.
How, how does a day like that look?
Just like an outline breakdown fromthe photographic and the business side
of things from start to finish for,for a, a whole day of high volume.
You
want me to go first on the photo side?
It's gonna first.
No, actually, the first part that'sgonna happen is that I'm gonna book them.
(32:31):
I'm gonna get them into my software.
I'm gonna get them all themarketing material from PhotoDay.
and then from there I'm gonna, I'mgoing to make up their schedule,
their picture day schedule.
I don't want them doing it.
They don't get to tell me howI'm gonna run my picture day.
So I'm gonna, I'm gonnamake up the schedule.
I'm gonna make sure I know, Ihave to make sure I have enough
people hired, for the shoot.
(32:53):
That could be five people,that could be 15 people.
Mm-Hmm.
make sure to.
To, make sure it's gonna run smoothly.
and then I'm gonna knowthe exact location.
I'm gonna keep an eye on the weather.
Very
Yes.
The weather.
Yes.
You are outdoors a lot of thetime, so that is very important.
Yes.
The weather.
And then a day of, we're all gonna getthere about an hour, hour 15 early.
(33:17):
We're going to, step out of the carand then that's when Jay takes over.
Yeah.
Yeah, we typically packup the night before.
I've got Mm-Hmm.
A van.
We have a big sprinter vanand we also have a trailer
that we have to get packed up.
So we have a, a, a list of goods.
'cause each ba, each line,we have three lights.
So, you know, if we have threelines, that's nine lights, and
(33:38):
then, you know, team lines.
So you're talking about nine to 12lights for a big shoot in scrims.
So we have to make sure we're,we're real organized on.
Packing up.
Then once we pack up, once we get tothe chute, you know, like, you know,
Carinna gives us an hour, hour and 15.
We have to decide, you know, typicallythey're, they're anywhere from three
to six hour days, so we have to picka spot on the field, which is gonna
(33:59):
be the best for Sun for traffic.
for sales, and we pick that spot.
We set up, set up our lights, and then wejust, with the staff, we have determine,
you know, who's, which photographer'sgonna work with which assistant.
Like for in sports and what wedo, we always have an assistant.
There's a lot of sports photographersthat try to go do it by themselves,
which I think is a mistake.
It kills you physically.
And you can't do as good of a jobwithout, you know, with somebody
(34:21):
really being hands-on with, withyour, with your, your athletes.
yeah, and we, and we shoot and weshoot and we shoot and it's nonstop.
There's typically bare, barelytime for a bathroom break.
Sometimes cor schedules a sum inthere, but it's a pretty, pretty, tough
physically to get through a, a six hourshoot on a turf field in the summertime.
It's pretty rough.
And then once we're done, we'rejust packing up, we're going back.
(34:43):
And then that's when we start, you know,we try to upload once we get there.
And the uploading process isreally important 'cause you
can make a mistake there and.
That's pretty rough.
You make a mistake, you know?
'cause we have typically, we have,you know, we have a bunch of shoots.
So if you make a mistake, it could affecta couple of different shoots after that.
And then that's whereCarinna takes back over.
Right.
So then there is an in-house,in-office protocol as to how we're
(35:05):
going to organize the images, makesure everything has been uploaded.
Mm-Hmm.
double check the cards.
we do in between each shoot wedo, reformat the, the backup card.
the main
card backup card.
Safe.
Oh, sorry, sorry, yes.
Yeah, the main card we're gonna reformat.
Hopefully we got everything uploaded andthen the backup card stays in the camera.
(35:25):
And then we're, getting ready for thenext shoot, which is usually the next day.
Yep.
Yeah.
We forgot.
We're running through.
Imagen and then fill today,
right?
Yep.
Run it through.
Imagen.
And, that'll take.
We will automatically goahead and just, just send it.
We'll go ahead and just send,send the, that catalog on over.
And then, the, the next day when we comeback into the office in the morning,
(35:47):
we're taking those images from Imagenand just spot checking and then, yeah,
uploading them into PhotoDay and thenposting them and then making that money.
Mm-hmm.
Making them money.
I think there's, there's,there's two things here worth,
worth, worth mentioning.
One is, you kind of subtly touched onthis, but there's this domino effect
with the volume work where if one partof the process of one job gets messed up.
(36:10):
Of some way it impacts those,following it in some aspect as well.
So, it is very, you know, important asyou said to, to really pay attention
and make sure everything's donecorrectly for, for a lot of these tasks
so that there's no domino effect andeverything else remains on, on schedule.
Yeah.
I mean, you know, for, for Carinna.
(36:31):
Like literally like, we'll, we'll ona busy Saturday we will have seven
cameras in the field, you know, sowe have to upload, we have to keep
track of seven different cameras.
And before, Imagen when wesend it overseas, we could
only send 500 images at a time.
So, you know, we'd come back from aweekend with thousands and thousands
of images, and you're talking aboutif we came back with 5,000 images,
(36:55):
which could be a typical thing,that means that Carinna has to bust
that up into 10 different catalogs.
to send o overseas because internetconnection's not that good over there.
So, but then you have to addMonday through Thursday shoots.
So, I mean, we have this, this board overhere that would be full of catalogs in
which Carinna just had to keep track of.
Right.
(37:15):
And if there was somewhere in thosecatalogs were one image or images, a set
of a hundred images weren't uploaded.
Then we have to go back andsearch in the memory cards.
And I mean, it was just, just this hugetask that only Carinna could do, you know?
So now with Imagen it'sliterally one quick catalog.
You know, we went from on abig shoot from having seven
(37:36):
catalogs to keep up with to one.
You know what I mean?
And that's just been like such a, a huge.
Change for us, and it doesn't, youknow, we're not, you know, losing,
it's a lot more difficult to loseimages now that we have this system
compared to what we were doing before.
Right.
Mm-Hmm
yeah.
And you're, you're sendingsmart previews, and they're not,
(37:56):
they're not going overseas now.
They're staying.
In the US going to US Amazon servers,which are, you know, so you're getting
as fast as you possibly can get,
Yes.
at the end of the day.
another thing that, you definitelymentioned this at the bootcamp, and
I think you subtly mentioned it justnow, is you're not really culling,
you are, you're doing a quick passjust to ensure that like, you know,
(38:19):
there's nothing just completely blurry.
and, and you're just sending 'em allfor editing because you're not shooting.
With super high, you know, highspeed burst, you're shooting
high volume with intention.
Every single time you click thatshutter button, there's a reason for it.
so, I think it's worth, worth, worthpointing out that, it's, it's a
lot of photos that you're doing andevery single one, the goal, there's
(38:43):
one goal and that's to sell it
correct.
single one.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, it's been great with mirrorlesscameras is really that I feel like
everything just kind of came togetherperfectly at one time between
software and mirrorless camerasand that electronic viewfinder.
And, before with DSLRs,you had to be real careful.
Like my thing was, is like, do not takethe photo until the subject is ready.
(39:04):
The worst thing you do as a photographeris take the photo and they'd be like, oh,
can you adjust this, that, or the other?
Adjust everything first.
Then take the photo, you know?
And so, same thing with over tomirrorless, but now we have the advantage
of seeing the photo in the back of thecamera as soon as we take the image.
So you take the photo, you got it, youmove on to the next, whether it be, you
know, we're changing our camera fromportrait to landscape or whatever it
(39:24):
may be, but we try to be intent, likeyou said, intentional about each photo.
So that way, I mean, 'cause we, andthe other thing that photographers
do is you take one good photo andit's so great that you take it again.
You know, you just keep lookinglike, oh, that look good.
Take it one more time.
And that's where she gets upset.
She goes, why do we have fourphotos that look exactly the same?
You know?
So you have to be kind of disciplinedbecause the other part of it is, is you
(39:48):
have, you have literally 10 minutes toget through 12 kids plus buddy photos
with their photo, with their coach,with their sibling, that sort of thing.
So you might be taking 17 subjectsand you have 10 minutes to do it,
so you don't have a lot of time.
To be messing around, you gotta getyour five or six photos, get 'em outta
the way, and move on to the next team.
(40:09):
Otherwise, you're gonna have a bunchof mad coaches standing there behind
you and parents and kids crying.
It can be very stressful, so youhave to be really smart the way
you do it once you get on site.
Right.
Because it is the time saver, right.
That that's the part, like nothaving to call, as you said Yeah.
Is really a time saver.
Like people don't realize, they'relike, oh, you know, I can just,
(40:29):
it's, it's always like doing thefallback on, on, I'll just take
care of it when I get in the office.
Yeah.
And that's, I, I, absolutely,
Yeah.
I cannot live that way.
No.
Yeah.
It works for some genres, but in yourgenre it can't because of, because
of the level of volume you're doing
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
you know, you never know.
(40:49):
Maybe down the road there'llbe AI trained on, on.
On your type of work, andthen there will be culling.
That can help just take outthat one that you don't need.
But, it, I think it was, it wasimportant for, when you said it at the
bootcamp, and I think it's importantfor everybody to hear now here to
who's listening now to also hear it.
that culling isn't always requiredif you're shooting with intention.
(41:14):
So, my last question to you bothis, You have a profile now available
with Imagen for anybody to utilize.
All they have to do is buy it.
what did we, what did,what did you call it?
Was it just called the
smaX
Photography?
Sports portraits?
I think,
I think so.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think the word smacks is attached to it.
I know.
(41:34):
smaX, yeah.
smaX sports.
Yeah.
Yeah.
yeah.
Something like that.
it is called smaXPhotography Sports Portraits.
Can you describe your, your editingstyle, so that everybody's listening who
might be interested can then go to theshow notes, check out the link, and buy
your profile if they want it or try it.
They can try it before they buy it too.
(41:54):
So,
Sure.
Can you describe what,
I think I'll try to, and then ifI'm wrong, Carinna can correct me.
Okay.
all, all of our typically, Youknow, we are shooting, you know,
sometimes as sports photographers,you don't get the best location.
You have to go off in corner somewhere.
So we typically shoot at avery shallow depth of field.
you know, we want the subject popping out.
And our profile, we've always had alittle bit of a vignette on our photos.
(42:18):
we wanna, really make the, the green grasspop and the blue skies pop when we can.
so we, we increase the bluesand greens a little bit.
then also we have some contrast in there.
typically we're shooting youth sports,so skin's really not a big deal for us.
Typically, I would say 90% of our,our athletes have good skin, so we
(42:38):
can maybe even bump up a clarity ortexture a little bit in our profile.
just, you know, provide that sharpness,that we don't really have to, but
Imagen does do the, the face, right?
Yeah.
So we do increase, the clarity and thesharp and, and the, texture a little bit.
just to make the uniforms in, inthe, the sky and the grass pop.
And we are off camera flash too,so yes, every, with at least a
(43:00):
two light set up or more so two ormore lights, never on camera flash.
Mm-Hmm
a lot of the times you're saying two, twoor three lights, because a lot of times
you're being back lited by the sun or thatyou're, you're, the kids are being back
lit by the sun, so there is another light.
It's just, that's yournatural light that Right.
So, so are you saying that, justto, just to clarify, are you
(43:21):
saying that in some, in some way.
The colors of the uniforms and theoverall scene are more important than
the skin tones in some cases, becausethat's, it's a team, it's team photos,
you know, at the end of the day.
or is it just, that's just the focuspoint that you've, that you've made,
for the, for your editing style?
(43:43):
I mean, not, there's no wrong way of
Right, right, right.
No, I think that, I thinkthat we've always, bumped up
the clarity on our profiles.
Like whenever we're in Lightroom,we're always bumping up the clarity.
And I think you have to bereally careful with that.
People who have bad skin, you know?
'cause that's just gonna make, yeah.
So that's, that's more what I mean.
We still want the skin toneslooking correct and, so, but I
(44:03):
think adding a touch of vibrance.
Pretty much to everything in sportsphotos, a little bit more saturation in
those uniforms is, you know, the colorsyou can get away a little bit more.
you know, where like a seniorphotographer, they might wanna
have some muted colors, you know,with sports we don't do that.
Parents like bold, bright,
Yeah,
vibrant colors.
So we, you know, we try to bumpthose up, you know, as much as
(44:26):
we can without looking fake.
Right, right.
so for those listening, if youwanna try it, I will link to the,
profile that you can check out.
You can try it before you even buy it.
it is also worth noting that, asJay said, there is a vignette.
In the, in the, in the editingstyle, if you are not a fan of
vignette, 'cause some people don't.
in Imagen there's actually a featurecalled a profile adjustments.
(44:49):
And in there you could actually overridethe vignette on their profile and say,
do everything but don't do the vignette.
And, And so you can havesome personal control.
In fact, it's also worth noting thatwhen, if, if you buy the smaX photography
sports portrait profile, it's actuallya personal AI profile on your own
(45:09):
account that learns from you over time.
So, it's, it would be as if you made ityourself and, you're just using their
style as a starting point that thenyou can continue going and it'll just
get smarter and smarter on your needs.
We've put a lot of photos.
We have put a lot of images in there.
Yes.
(45:30):
To note
that, that this is definitely, Ifeel like it's been very fine tuned,
as you all do have a fine tuning.
it has been fine tuned and we dohave, a lot of, especially like our
Bootcampers, the ones who've attended ourbootcamp, is they, they ask us, 'cause
you know, the editing is usually the.
Sticking point, for a lot of peoplewho come into the volume world is
(45:50):
they're like, now I gotta edit all these
Yeah.
So, so for them, because you gottainternal know they're hearing Yeah,
they're hearing about Imagen we're,we're talking a lot about it, because
it's really revolutionized our like.
Office life.
And so, we have a lot of photographerswho are asking, you know, can I, you
know, can I get a profile from you?
Is there a starting pointthat I can start with?
(46:11):
So, I do think, I mean,
it's a good one.
If I
was listening and I wasn't coursephotographer, that wasn't me would get it.
I would so be into it because we have,we have put a lot, we put an entire
season basically into it, and we'retalking about editing wise, it has.
me, Jody, Jamie, we're all three of us.
(46:31):
We went through, getting all theimages backed from Imagen and making
sure everything was fine tuned.
It's not like we created it and thenwe just ran everything through it,
and then we're like, okay, now buy it.
No, we went through, I mean.
There's a lot, there's a lot ofpictures and for three people to
constantly be going through anddouble checking because we're used
to hand checking everything anyhow.
(46:52):
So I had everybody go throughthat process of hand checking,
I mean, tens of thousands ofimages, that's been double checked.
So I do feel like this is verymuch, I, I, I highly recommend it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
one more thing that, that I, I, I meantto bring up earlier, that you just
brought up your team again and I waslike, oh yeah, I wanted to bring this up.
(47:13):
I think it's important to everybody know,like, yes, there's the two of you, right?
You, you own this business.
you might be the mastermindsbehind the business, but you have
a team that not only helps you.
When you're actually doing the jobs.
But at the, at the, at the bootcamp,they were there as well helping.
And not only are they very nice aswell, but they know your business.
(47:35):
They know, that, so if somebody, if one ofthe students had a question and they went
up to them, they knew how to answer itwithout having to come to the both of you.
Right.
And I think that's reallyimportant for any, any, volume
photographer of any genre.
To make sure that the team that youhave, not only do you trust them,
not only are they good people,but they truly know your business.
(47:56):
Because if you don't have a team behindyou that knows your business as well
as you do, or almost as well as youdo, it can make or break things right?
And you've, you've over time, you've builtthis team, of, of fantastic people that
really add a lot of value to what you do.
So just wanna point that out.
I agree.
(48:17):
That's awesome to hear.
Yeah,
okay.
thank you both for joining me.
I, I really appreciate it.
I'm so glad you were both ableto, to come together for this.
where can listeners learn more about you?
Connect with you, of course.
See your awesome sport photography.
yeah.
We have, boatwright, boatwrightbootcamp.com is, our workshops.
(48:37):
Mm-Hmm.
smack heart.
S-M-A-X-A-R t.com is our website.
Mm-Hmm.
on Instagram, I'm smaX,it's sm a X_ photography.
Yeah.
And, and where else?
Oh, we, we periodically, we do, someeducating also at some, some of the shows.
I don't know if we're gonnado anything this coming year,
(48:59):
probably, maybe SPAC, I don't know.
Yeah.
But you can also find us there too.
Yeah.
Awesome.
They're very friendly.
If you're listening,they're very friendly.
If you do see them at oneof the events, go say hi.
absolutely.
thank you again, both of you.
All right.
Appreciate it.
Thank you, Scott.
Thank
you, Scott.
Jay and Carinna, it's so niceto, to see your faces again
and to speak with you again.
we were just together.
Just over a month ago.
Can you believe that thatcame and went so fast?
Oh my
I was, yes.
that was,
it's been a month.
Yeah.
yeah, it's, that was, I think I mentionedthis to you as we parted ways, down in
(00:35):
Georgia, but that was one of the mosthands-on workshops I've ever witnessed.
And, if you are a volume sportphotographer who is looking to dig in
deeper, I strongly recommend to check outthe, a Boatwright bootcamp because it's
hands down, one of the most engaging,most interactive, one of the most
(00:59):
educational workshops I've ever seen.
But, it is specific to sport photography.
so.
It was, yeah, it was cool.
It was cool.
It was, everybody at work keepsasking me how to describe it.
And the way I keep describing, to reallydrill it in that like you're not just
showing up and taking pictures of peoplethat you're doing a full production, is,
(01:22):
I describe it as it's a movie productionset for sport photography, like.
That's the way I, that's the way I,I, I, I describe it to everybody and
that like, it makes 'em understand.
So, welcome and, nice to see you again.
Yes.
Its good to see you.
Yeah.
Well, thank you for having
us.
Yeah, thank you.
Awesome.
so we're gonna dive right intothe first question I ask every
(01:44):
guest, and it's not often that Ihave two people I get to speak to.
And this is fun justfor everybody who, um.
who is listening, who is not aware of you?
You, both of you, your business.
Can you quickly explain to allthe listeners why I asked both
of you to join this conversation?
Specifically?
(02:05):
Well, I think it's, it.
It's a lot like inviting.
If you were to have a restaurant,that's how I would think about it.
Like Jay's the front of the house.
I'm the back of the house.
I'm making sure everything's happening.
Oh, and there's another back ofthe house, Finn, who just joined
our dog.
The office.
The office dog.
Yeah, the
office dog.
but I would say that's,that's how it would happen.
Like if you were to, to beinterviewing a restaurant, you
(02:28):
couldn't just do just a chef, really.
You're going to it.
It kind of encompasses everything.
and, and that's how our, our businessworks is that you have to have a strong
front and back of the house to, tomake volume sports in particular work.
Yeah.
Kare and I are very different.
We're different and we reallyplay off each other's strengths.
Yeah.
(02:49):
And that was one thing that youdrilled in, at the, at the bootcamp
was, was the fact that, you know,if somebody has a question about.
The photographic process, whichis actually gonna be my first
question once we get to it.
then like go to Jay.
But if somebody has a question abouta certain business thing and like
the reasoning why it's done thisway, whatever, go to Carinna, right?
So you guys, started out sayinglike, you know, here's the, here's
(03:14):
how we work together, but here's aseparation and why it works so well.
And that was why I, I said, I'mgonna have you both on because.
Yes.
At, in this, podcast, I ask questionsabout photographic and business.
So that's why, it's just, it's awesome.
Okay.
What is one thing that you dofor the photographic process?
(03:34):
This is behind the camera.
That saves you time.
it has to be, just taking the, I,this will probably be the common
answer for most photographers, buttake doing it right in the camera.
You know, we have our lighting setup, we have, it pretty much dialed in.
We have a system for it.
And I think that just beingconsistent on the lighting, is where
(03:55):
we're gonna save it the most time.
Also, Also the new features of themirrorless camera, I think really help
us is we have crop lines in our camera.
'cause most of the photos thatwe crop are eight by 10 ratios.
So we have crop lines eight by10 ratios set up in our camera,
and we also have levels in there.
So we make sure that not only arewe shooting with the correct amount
of space between the head, and thefeet, but also we're shooting level.
(04:16):
So getting lighting right in cameraand making sure that you're, you're
cropping your photo correctlyand you have everything level is
probably what saves us the most time.
Yeah.
That was one of the things that, I, I,I had a feeling you were gonna say that
because of how much effort you put into.
with your lighting set up, the system,you have to ensure your lighting is set
(04:38):
up consistently every job that you have.
I knew that was going to be your answerand I'm glad that you brought it up.
I've never, again, like I've neverseen anything like it before.
Like, I've been to a lot of workshops.
I've never seen anything likeit, and it was very impressive.
and it, and it makes sensefor such high volume to have
something in place to guarantee.
(04:59):
A hundred percent of the timeyour lighting is consistent.
so,
Yeah.
Right.
And we do provide thatto the Bootcampers too.
So anybody who does attend our bootcamp,we make sure that they have the tools
they're gonna leave with those exact.
Same tools, down to a science,that we have, so that way everybody
can be guaranteed the same.
You know, for us, photography wise, it,it has to be the same every single time.
(05:22):
And just, just to, just tostress that a little bit.
When you say the right tools, you're notjust saying the education, you actually
physically gave them the tools thatthey need for your, for your system,
which is even more impressive, the factthat, they 100% A to Z were able to
leave their, with everything they needfor that specific thing in particular.
(05:47):
Yeah, that's pretty cool.
'cause it's very specific workshop.
You know, if you're in that business,this is like kind of like a business
in a, here's the package, here's whatyou needed to be do to be successful.
Mm-Hmm.
Yep.
Yeah.
And you guys, you guys didn't holdback anything that, that your students
needed to beat to, to, to have asuccessful business in your genre?
(06:10):
They, they, they were able to get itno matter, you know, you weren't gonna.
Gatekeep, anything you were just given,you know, this one's for you, Carinna.
Yes.
What is one thing you do for thebusiness that saves you time or money?
And we're gonna get toImagen down the road.
So let's skip Imagen for the time being.
but in general, one thing you do for thebusiness that saves you time or money.
(06:34):
Right.
It would be making sure that youhave the right, the CRM software, and
whatever online for us, the onlineplatform, that is gonna host the picture.
So everything kind of behindthe scenes, it has to be.
Perfect.
It has to be completely seamless.
so whatever type of software it isthat you're using in particular,
it has to, it has to fall in line.
(06:56):
You have to use it exactly thesame way every single time.
you have to have, very rigid For me,I'm extremely rigid on my processes.
so that way I'm not, not forgetting,any, any, points and, and, And so that
way when we show up to a shoot, whatthat's gonna do is that, that's gonna
guarantee, I mean, I pretty much knowthat, that I'm gonna vet the, the league,
(07:19):
the league that we're going to hire,and then, I'm gonna know exactly what
it is that, that how much money it is agood idea, what we're gonna be making.
so for, for me, that, that saves me timeis that I don't ever have to go back.
And like backtrack and be like, okay,what is it that we talked about?
Like I have everything outlinedperfectly, in my software programs,
everything, all my processes thatonce I, from one to five, I'm
(07:44):
gonna follow those steps exactly.
To ensure that when we showup for the shoot, everything's
gonna go perfectly smooth.
Yeah.
What, what are some of those softwaresthat you're using to see around
the gallery that that is helping?
Because I'm going to guess.
10 years ago you were pure paper, right?
Give or take.
Now you're not, you know, now it's,there's a lot of digital, which
(08:07):
definitely can help streamline.
So what are some of those, those,software that you're using that,
that has helped with those?
sure.
So I use ShootQ For my CRM softwareand for me, it's not like I have
to keep track of every singlecustomer, who's ordering from us.
My main customer is goingto be my lead contact.
So the board member, the team o, whoeverit is that handles that, that entire
(08:30):
program, that's gonna be the personthat I'm gonna be in contact with, to
make sure everything runs smoothly.
I'm able to create workflows even inthat, you know, talking about workflows,
I create my workflows in there.
So I'm gonna have automatic emailsthat are gonna pop out to them.
questionnaires about the location,just reminders that they get sent.
and for me that saves me a load of time.
(08:52):
so that way when.
As soon as I book my customer, which isgonna be my league, is that I'm gonna
send out, it's gonna have a workflowand it's gonna send out automatically
to my board member and that's how it'sgonna end up, saving me time there.
I don't have to go back and,and make sure I've sent, you
know, one through five emails.
It's automatically gonna do that for me.
I have it all set up.
And then also, for the software thatwe use for, For selling our pictures.
(09:16):
The online platform is PhotoDay, so they,for us, we just upload everything there.
They, they host the pictures andthey do pretty much all of the text
marketing, email marketing, everythingthat, that it is that we need,
that takes care of it on that end.
So as soon as I upload the pictures,I don't have to look at anything for.
12 weeks, honestly.
(09:37):
there's some instances where Idon't look at it for 12 weeks.
I open it back up and I look andsee what we did for the sales.
So, yeah, so I use PhotoDay for that.
so just to, branch out a bit fromthe sport genre in the wedding
space, for example, there'soff, a lot of photographers
are automating as well, right?
And there's a, some instances whereyou might need to stop an automation,
(09:59):
for example, after a person getsmarried, it's a year later, let's
say they got divorced, right?
You might wanna stop anautomated anniversary email.
are there any instances now going backto sport, are there any instances where
there's sort of this like emergency,like red alert, I gotta stop an email
from going out type of situation thatyou have come across, in, during your,
(10:21):
you know, your time with automation.
Right.
no, actually, if anything it's been,it's really been my best friend.
It's been my best tool, because I can sendout emails that say, Hey, if you're not
my contact person for next year, who is?
so, you know, that alwayskeeps me in the loop.
It, it, my, that automation alwayskeeps me in the loop and it, it's
never really backfired for me.
(10:42):
Awesome.
That's great to hear.
You never know, like I, you know, Iphotographed action sports before.
But not enough that I needed to automate.
So I've never thought about thatuntil, until just now about, what
kind of red alerts might you run into?
So,
Well, it's a little differentin the industry 'cause we
have two customers, right?
We have the final customer, whichis actually buying the photos.
Mm-Hmm.
(11:02):
But then our other customer isthe, the head of the organization.
So if there's 500 base kids, in a baseballleague, we have the board that we have
to, that's our number one customer.
And then the number two customerwould be all the parents
that we sell the photos to.
Mm-Hmm.
So we are having to pleasetwo separate people.
So you know her, her software is.
Geared towards her CRM softwareis geared towards the board
(11:24):
where the PhotoDay software is.
That's all geared towardsthe final consumer.
Mm-Hmm
yeah.
Nice.
let's move into editing.
Let's, pre Imagen, right?
what is one thing you do, andI think you might have just
mentioned this earlier, but, somaybe it'll, it'll come up as well.
What is one thing you do forthe editing that saves you time?
(11:46):
F for I, well, I'll let Carinnaanswer on, on her end what she might
do, because we have different jobs.
You know, I'll do the photos thanshe actually does the editing.
But for me, the biggest thing wasis just making sure there wasn't.
Light stands in the photos or scrims inthe photos are just, you know, because
we shot, we, we basically cropped bycropped and edited by hand before Imagen.
(12:06):
And so your, your mind when you'retaking photos and the wind blows
and the scrim comes in your way,you're like, oh, I can crop that out.
That's what you're thinking, you know?
And with Imagen we don't want to do that.
We want it to be as clean as possiblefor, so for us, it's just making
sure that we have a, a clean set.
You know, there's no light stands, there'sno, there's no trash, there's no anything.
(12:27):
There's no, I can crop that out later.
You know what I'm saying?
Like we want, if we want all thecropping to go through smoothly and
quickly, then we have to make sure thatwe have a clean set on, on, on shoot.
Or that's you,
right?
Right.
Well, you know, previously, before,you know, we are Imagen, users, so,
but previously we did have an, an Iguess you would say, Across the world.
(12:49):
Yeah.
Off offsite editor.
Yes.
Offite editor.
Yes.
And we sent him everything.
And so, he took care of, careof everything for us, but it
was, it was just very difficultjust to list logistics of it.
I mean, one of my main jobs in theoffice at that point was just making
sure everything was sent properly.
it was uploaded properly.
I mean, again, we did everything by hand.
(13:10):
So this editor did everything byhand, and then we came through and
we double checked everything by hand.
So everything, all of the pictureswould always, every single
one would be touched, by us.
And so now with Imagen though, Imean just running it through, it's.
Spot checks.
Yeah.
(13:30):
Now it's just spot check, checkingspot checks, which is a lot nicer.
Yeah.
This, this is a goodopportunity to bring up.
What is, any day from thetime this episode airs.
any day now, there's a newfeature that's gonna be an Imagen.
It's something that, was, you know, inpartnership, with, with you both, with
partnership with some other photographersthat we've consulted with to.
(13:53):
get a new crop specificto your needs in place.
In Imagen, and what we'recalling it is portrait crop.
So what that is is, anybody can goto, sport can go to school category
when they're going to edit, andyou'll see two different crop modes.
You'll see crop, which is theoriginal crop that Imagen always had.
(14:16):
And you'll see portrait crop andportrait crop will do your exact
crop of that, space above the head.
Space above the feet, four by five,or which is also eight by 10, and
will center the, the, the student,the, the player, whatever in the
frame, exactly how you've been.
(14:36):
Framing it in camera with your cropmarks and, getting it perfect every time.
And it's very exciting thatit's, it's gonna be here.
And, it's only a matter of weeks,hopefully, knock on wood, when
we have the same feature forfive by seven also available too.
So, that's very exciting.
so I know our product team is grateful tohave worked with you on that to, to get it
(14:59):
out there and, it's, exciting that it's.
Finally here again, withindays of this episode airing.
So,
Yes, me too.
And you know, we can go in moredetail what our workflow was used
to be like compared to Imagen ifyou want to get there, but the crop.
Situation is a big game changerfor us because we, you know,
we generate a lot of photos.
(15:20):
So, having the feeling that we canupload to Imagen and crop and editing
is done and we can move on is, iskind of a life changing thing really.
I can't really, it is not exaggeration.
It is like, it could belife changing for us,
right?
Because, you know, for your audience.
For us, we consider volume.
I mean, it can be anythingover a hundred kids.
(15:41):
but I, I typically, we don't typicallydo anything less than that, but it's
gonna be like a hundred kids, we cantake up to 12, 1500 kids in a day.
So you're talking about, for us,we do what's called progression.
So.
Jay's gonna do a bunch ofdifferent looks for these kids.
They're gonna be aboutfive different looks.
So when you're going through andyou have that many pictures that you
(16:02):
have to edit and, you know, of eachathlete, it's, it can really pile up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It, I mean, doing that one by onefor each kid and you know, like
once they change the pose, yes.
You've got your, your, your, your markersof where the, where the kid's gonna stand.
You've got your lighting in place.
You are quite literally sittingin a, in a chair on the ground.
(16:25):
and, and you are, everybody's,everything is fixed.
The only thing that's moving so much.
Is the kid.
Right.
And that slight change in
change angles.
Yep.
Mm-Hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That, that slight change in poseis while, while it might be minor,
when it gets to the editing point.
It's not so minor anymore 'cause you'vegot so many that you have to go through.
(16:46):
so that is, it is somethingthat, that, you know, I know it's
gonna save you a ton of time.
I know it's gonna save, many othervolume shooters a whole lot of time.
is there anything else youwanna share about, about that,
before we keep moving on?
The crop tool.
Sure.
Crop, before, before,Imagen had it or, or now,
Well, I mean, you know, I guess,and I just, what do we estimate?
(17:07):
We're probably saving 20 hours a weeksince we switched from doing everything
by hand to So it's been a huge thing.
And the crop, I mean the crop tool,the crop in straightening is where
I, why I first came to Imagen, 'causethe straightening tool wasn't just
the Lightroom tool, it was, youknow, it really was doing a good job.
'cause when you're shooting sports, youhave a lot of fences in the background.
You have a lot of stadiums andyou know, you have different, you
(17:29):
know, W well, you gave parallel.
Mm-Hmm.
The horizon.
Yeah, the
horizon line.
So, you know, I would, I wouldhave a hard time adjusting
him, by hand myself, you know?
so Imagen did a great job and that's whywe originally went with Imagen compared
to the, in any of the other AI companies.
So having a, a smart crap crop tool, notjust something that's, you know's, gonna
(17:50):
randomly do, you know, the same thing,like a batch is gonna be, you know, Yeah,
I mean, we're gonna be able to either takemore time off or gain new, get new leads.
Either one of those is finewith me, so it's a huge deal.
Yeah.
When we, when you say 20hours, we're talking about
20 hours a person, so, right.
So it's not like 20 hours, youknow, maybe, and, and maybe
(18:11):
I'm saving my editor 20 hours.
No, I'm talking about the entire office.
Like it's really, as opposed togetting the images back and let's
say we shoot, we're gonna shoot allweekend, we're gonna come back with.
You know, I don't, 20,000images, let's just say.
and to go through, I mean, now wecan, before we would, maybe if we
didn't have anything else goingon, we'd have 'em up by Friday.
(18:33):
Now we have them up.
And this is like even kind of being alittle bit lazy no later than Wednesday.
by Monday, usually everything's done.
Tuesday, we're spotchecking everything and.
You know, doing some other office work.
And then for sure by Wednesdaymorning I have everything posted,
on PhotoDay, which is huge.
I'm gonna be really interested to seenumbers wise, what that's going to do,
(18:55):
because, you know, near the end of theseason for us it's, it's things we're
getting like two weeks behind becausewe are just like shooting and we're
coming back to the office and editingand shooting and editing and, and it
is just like a never ending cycle.
And so.
Now I'm, I'm really interested to seehow the numbers are gonna play out for
us, being able to turn those imagesaround so quickly for my customers.
(19:15):
We're almost gonna have to holdonto 'em for a minute 'cause
then it's gonna look too easy.
I know.
I was like,
we need to hold, let's hold onthese two for a couple days.
'cause I don't wanna looklike it's, it is too simple.
Know.
That's what I
did for yesterday, so I waslike, I can't post this.
Yeah,
yeah.
I got home from a shoot, we didour first shoot yesterday and it
was just this little small shoot,but, you know, literally I came
back to the office and ran it.
I mean, I had it done and, you know.
(19:37):
10 minutes.
Yeah.
And posted the PhotoDay, ready to go.
And I guess you, I'm like, yeah,we're gonna hold onto it for a day.
At least we did something.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
at a, at Imagen one of our taglinesis Imagen the possibilities and, when
we're thinking about volume, school,volume, sport photographers, I think it's
more Imagen the opportunities, right?
(19:59):
Because now, you know, it's very much.
yes, yes.
All of this is gonna save you guys enoughtime where you could go and go on more
trips and, and spend more time out withthe dog and, and the kids and and so on.
But, but I think it's a lot of, it's gonnaunlock even more business opportunities.
'cause now you've got, you're gonnahave even more of this, time to.
(20:22):
To bring on more leagues, moreteams, do more Bootcamps, et cetera.
Right.
So I I'm also very excited to see
Yeah.
Yeah.
We've very much, anytime we, we,save time doing something, we somehow
managed to fill it with more business.
but you know, that's the thing islike, that's what we're good at though.
Jay's great at shooting, he'sgreat at educating either other.
(20:44):
Our photographers, you also shoot.
I'm great at, at keeping track ofeverything and making sure everything
is gonna go as smoothly as possibleand, and we're gonna run this business.
And so that's for us that,that's exciting for us.
You know, I don't, I don'tlike the editing part.
I don't like, I, I don't like,you know, we, we have, Our,
our lab partner is Reedy Lab.
(21:07):
And, we, we learned very early on, wedid not like stuff in those envelopes
with pictures and sending those, likewe were really bad at it by the way.
And so just to be able to focus onthe things that we're really good at,
that's what Imagen allows us to do.
Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm.
Yeah.
That, that, I think that oftentimeswhat happens when you have something
like this that frees you up with somuch time, things happen that you
(21:28):
really can't anticipate and what,you know, it'll give me more time
to have a better, education process.
Like Carinna said, for our photographerstraining photo, I could do more
social media stuff, which mightbring in a different type of client.
there's just so many things you cando when you're not burnt out because
before imagining we were literally.
Taking photos, we were due, anywherebetween seven and 10 shoots a week.
(21:49):
Then we're back in the office editingand our days are like, you know,
they were from 10 to 10 is what ourdays looked like, and you just had
zero time to think about anythingelse besides shooting and editing.
So, mm-hmm.
By taking the editing off of us, whichwas the most time, then we're gonna
have, I think we're gonna come upwith all kind of creative stuff and
that's, it makes the job fun again.
(22:10):
yeah.
I can't wait to see whatyou guys wind up doing.
from here on, it's gonna, it's
too.
so, my next question to you,it's still business related.
What is one thing you do after, typicallyI ask one thing you do after a session,
but I'm gonna say after you do a full dayof, you know, an entire league, right?
(22:30):
what is one thing you do aftera day that, increases business?
And by the way, this could be.
I'm gonna do a twist on this.
It could be during, because you guysdo a lot of stuff during as well.
So let's say either during orafter that increases business.
Okay.
You go first.
That increases business.
well, I, I, I automatically justthought about you, that you're always
(22:53):
out looking for the, the board members.
For other leagues, or if they'rewith the rec department, we're
always trying to figure out how we'regonna get at the different sport.
yeah, I mean, typically for, for, for my,my job, when I'm on site, typically I'm on
site Carinna's at the office and on site.
If a shoot goes smoothly, I.
Typically the people that are gonnabe sticking around afterwards, have
(23:15):
influence, at that, that, that league,and of course maybe other leagues in
the community because, you know, the,the different board members talk to
each other, different parks, you know,maybe I'm dealing with a baseball
board director, but they're also siton the board of a football league.
So when we just had a successful shootand everybody's excited, and typically
during the shoot I'm uploading somephotos to Facebook that I really
(23:38):
like, that I'm taking at the shoot.
You know, to get parents excited,get the board excited, say, Hey,
photo, today's going great today.
Here's some of the samples of your league.
And we post some photos.
And then so everybody's on a high, youknow, everybody's real excited about
how everything went, and that's a reallygood time to start asking for more
business if you get the opportunity.
So we, you know, that's been areally good way for us to, to, to
(23:59):
grow, organically and not reallyhave to go and chase people.
We're just like, you know, you knowhow personal introduction's the
best, so I do that as much as I can.
Mm-Hmm.
Awesome.
Awesome.
you?
I think more business like the, theway she markets after the shoot.
Like she has like a couple times ayear where she does like a, your little
special or you expire stuff, right?
(24:19):
Yeah.
I
expire stuff.
I expire galleries make it, there's,there's some type of deadline
to, to some of the galleries.
So,
your last chance offersmake us a lot of money.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we do a lot of,
a last chance to buy a print of yourkid before the gallery expires in
Or goes up in price.
Yeah.
Mm-Hmm.
Yeah, I usually do those at, at
Twice a during
(24:40):
slow season.
Mm-Hmm.
When we need some money.
Yeah,
yeah.
When there's no sports going on.
So it's a good bump though.
it's, it's a very, very, very good bump.
Yes.
It's
really, yeah.
It's really, it's significant.
But, you know,
for me, I, I do, expire my galleries, butI always, I, I have something that's gonna
tell the customer that we're expiring it,but then I, I do expire it, but then I go
(25:03):
on the next day and I reopen everything.
It's just more expensive.
So, so they do, there is an urgency to it.
but yeah, people, it really helps.
Mm-Hmm.
Yeah.
Get through the slow season.
Outta curiosity, for those who arenot familiar with the Georgia area,
what are the top three sports thatyou, that you're photographing
(25:24):
throughout the the sports season?
Mm-Hmm.
The top three would be, the topmoney makers would be the traditional
ones, football, cheer, and baseball.
Softball.
Actually softball doesreally good here too.
Yeah.
and we got
a gigantic basketball league, soit is the ma the major sports.
But percentagewise, no.
But percentage wise I would,I would say, sales wise would
be baseball, football, cheer.
(25:44):
Mm-Hmm mm-Hmm.
what is the, the least obvious sportthat you wouldn't, people, most
people wouldn't expect that you've,that you've photograph either here
and there or on a regular basis.
For Atlanta hockey.
Yeah.
Ice hockey in Atlanta.
We shoot a lot of ice hockey.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah,
that was, I, I loved hockey growing up.
(26:05):
I did baseball and hockey growing up, but
Well, I, you know, being the icehockey photos are always fantastic too.
We really love shooting 'em.
So we're fortunate we getto be on the ice here.
a lot of photographers up north don'tget to be on the ice to have to do
composites and things like that.
And we are, we don't do composites.
We're, you know, field of play.
Or a, a really cool backdrop.
That's all we do.
And so, our hockey photos are on theice and that was a bit of a challenge,
(26:29):
you know, a learning curve for me'cause I never played hockey growing up.
So, but now we're really goodat it and we really enjoy it.
And you know, this, that's actually avery good point that you made, is that
we do take pictures on the field to play.
So we are not composite photographersfor us, everything is gonna
be in the natural background.
I always say kinda likethe natural habitat.
Yeah.
(26:50):
So, that's
mean, literally you're doingdugouts, like literally in the,
Yeah.
in the habitat.
Yes.
Yeah, exactly.
first of all, that's gotta be a nicechange of pace from the Georgia heat
to go onto the ice, every so often.
but also what do you do withlight stands on the ice?
Do you put rugs down firstor do you just plop 'em down?
(27:13):
Yeah, we just put 'em down.
sometimes, you know, you havethose little rubber stoppers.
I usually, I use them,I use the man photo.
We're traveling all the time.
So I have stackable stands or theManfrotto is the 1 1 0 0 4 BAC, I
think is the, and they're stackable.
Since we're traveling all the time,we have to have gear that, that,
you know, folds down pretty tight.
So I use those stands.
They have little rubber stoppers,you know, that keep from scratching
(27:34):
floors and some, sometimes youset the, the stands on the ice.
They have the Zamboni that goes around,you know, and the ice a little bit wet.
You put the stand down and then,you know, we have to get off after
every session, so every 45 minuteswe're taking the lights back off.
And so sometimes those little thingsget stuck on the ice, but for the most
part, yeah, you just throw the, the,the light stands right on the, on the
(27:54):
ice and the Zamboni cleans up anythingthat, you know, if it made it a little
indentation, it'll take care of it.
Nice.
That's, that's gotta be a lot of fun.
It is.
okay, so, this is going to be a fun one.
Again, I've never done thiswith two people before.
So between the two of you, you'regotta decide, pick a color,
(28:15):
Pick a color.
Oh, I'm not,
pick a color.
hold on.
Let's make it bigger so we can see.
Let's see.
Oh, I like this one.
Yellow.
Yeah, we both liked, yeah, your left.
All right.
I'm gonna thumb through the deck.
one of you just tell me when to stop.
Okay.
Okay.
You tell me.
(28:36):
Stop.
Okay.
I'd like for both of you toanswer whatever this question is.
Okay.
Okay.
is my favorite part of the showbecause it's like complete, I have
no idea what I'm about to ask you.
Okay.
I've had this question beforewith somebody else that's funny.
What is something you don'tmind paying more money for?
(28:56):
It fell out.
What was the question?
What's something you don'tmind paying more money
money for?
I know my
It does not have to bephotography related.
It could be anything
Okay.
what do I not mind?
A great steak.
nice.
I love a steakhouse experience, like areally great luxury high-end steakhouse.
(29:21):
Ugh.
Doesn't
we did hear that at the, at the bootcamp.
You are a foodie, so that
I am.
I am.
Yeah.
Very on brand.
yes, yes, yes.
Okay.
Mine's gonna be a little bit cheesy,but you know, it is what it is.
mine is definitely Imagen because,because we're paying, yes.
Because we're paying a little bit morethan we paid our editor, I think, right?
(29:42):
For volume.
So it's a little bit more, butI don't mind paying 'cause it's.
than paid for it.
You know what it, it's, it's moreexpensive dollar wise, but as far as you
include time, it's, it's less expensive.
Mm-Hmm.
You know what I mean?
But we knew, I knew goingon that this was gonna be
Okay.
So what would be, what else Your, okay.
I told you what would be your answer if,
(30:02):
if it wasn't, Imagen itcan't not including, Imagen,
yeah.
If it was not, but you
didn't say that, but, okay.
what
do you not mind paying for?
What am I not mind paying for?
So I think the last person I askedthis question to is Jerry Ghionis
Um, and he said, going to see a reallygood show, like, a Lady Gaga show
mm mm-Hmm.
famous jazz musician or whatever, likehe was like over the top, like, I'll
(30:25):
spend a fortune on something that epic.
Yeah.
I mean, golf, probably golf for me.
And experience like golf.
Like golf, I love, yeah.
If I, I experiences
trips.
We really like to travel.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, I love a good golf course with acaddy in the whole, and like spoil myself.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's, I love that.
Mm-Hmm.
Have you ever done one of those,like celebrity tournaments where
(30:46):
like you're the Joe Schmo that'splaying with a celebrity I,
No, but I don't reallyget that starstruck.
I mean, I've met some famous golfersbefore, 'cause I, I grew up playing golf.
and I would be more about being with myfriends at a really good, good golf course
rather than playing with a celebrity.
That's not really my, my thing.
They're just like a regularguy, just like everybody else.
You know?
(31:07):
I like to, I like to play like, just beat a beautiful landscape is my thing.
Yeah.
I have never played a, so my, mygrandfather was a big golfer, and growing
up, like they moved down to Florida likemany Jersey grandparents do eventually.
And, you know, I, I would go downthere and he'd always say, Hey,
do you wanna go play golf with me?
(31:28):
And I'd.
No, I don't wanna do golf.
But we would go to the range and wewould, I would just hit balls all day.
mm-Hmm.
That, I mean, it's just like goingto the, going to the batting cages,
like just hitting all day long is,is nothing better for me at least.
but I'm sure one day in my life I willactually play around, around a golf.
You should.
You should.
(31:48):
Mm-Hmm
yeah.
so.
I typically ask a question aboutoutlining your, do an outline breakdown
of your workflow from lead to delivery.
But I'm gonna again,twist this a little bit.
I would love for the both of you to sharean outline breakdown of how a typical
day, or if it is like a full, a big,big, big lead that needs multiple days.
(32:09):
Just in general, how does a, a day ofvery high volume, you're doing 1500 kids.
How, how does a day like that look?
Just like an outline breakdown fromthe photographic and the business side
of things from start to finish for,for a, a whole day of high volume.
You
want me to go first on the photo side?
It's gonna first.
No, actually, the first part that'sgonna happen is that I'm gonna book them.
(32:31):
I'm gonna get them into my software.
I'm gonna get them all themarketing material from PhotoDay.
and then from there I'm gonna, I'mgoing to make up their schedule,
their picture day schedule.
I don't want them doing it.
They don't get to tell me howI'm gonna run my picture day.
So I'm gonna, I'm gonnamake up the schedule.
I'm gonna make sure I know, Ihave to make sure I have enough
people hired, for the shoot.
(32:53):
That could be five people,that could be 15 people.
Mm-Hmm.
make sure to.
To, make sure it's gonna run smoothly.
and then I'm gonna knowthe exact location.
I'm gonna keep an eye on the weather.
Very
Yes.
The weather.
Yes.
You are outdoors a lot of thetime, so that is very important.
Yes.
The weather.
And then a day of, we're all gonna getthere about an hour, hour 15 early.
(33:17):
We're going to, step out of the carand then that's when Jay takes over.
Yeah.
Yeah, we typically packup the night before.
I've got Mm-Hmm.
A van.
We have a big sprinter vanand we also have a trailer
that we have to get packed up.
So we have a, a, a list of goods.
'cause each ba, each line,we have three lights.
So, you know, if we have threelines, that's nine lights, and
(33:38):
then, you know, team lines.
So you're talking about nine to 12lights for a big shoot in scrims.
So we have to make sure we're,we're real organized on.
Packing up.
Then once we pack up, once we get tothe chute, you know, like, you know,
Carinna gives us an hour, hour and 15.
We have to decide, you know, typicallythey're, they're anywhere from three
to six hour days, so we have to picka spot on the field, which is gonna
(33:59):
be the best for Sun for traffic.
for sales, and we pick that spot.
We set up, set up our lights, and then wejust, with the staff, we have determine,
you know, who's, which photographer'sgonna work with which assistant.
Like for in sports and what wedo, we always have an assistant.
There's a lot of sports photographersthat try to go do it by themselves,
which I think is a mistake.
It kills you physically.
And you can't do as good of a jobwithout, you know, with somebody
(34:21):
really being hands-on with, withyour, with your, your athletes.
yeah, and we, and we shoot and weshoot and we shoot and it's nonstop.
There's typically bare, barelytime for a bathroom break.
Sometimes cor schedules a sum inthere, but it's a pretty, pretty, tough
physically to get through a, a six hourshoot on a turf field in the summertime.
It's pretty rough.
And then once we're done, we'rejust packing up, we're going back.
(34:43):
And then that's when we start, you know,we try to upload once we get there.
And the uploading process isreally important 'cause you
can make a mistake there and.
That's pretty rough.
You make a mistake, you know?
'cause we have typically, we have,you know, we have a bunch of shoots.
So if you make a mistake, it could affecta couple of different shoots after that.
And then that's whereCarinna takes back over.
Right.
So then there is an in-house,in-office protocol as to how we're
(35:05):
going to organize the images, makesure everything has been uploaded.
Mm-Hmm.
double check the cards.
we do in between each shoot wedo, reformat the, the backup card.
the main
card backup card.
Safe.
Oh, sorry, sorry, yes.
Yeah, the main card we're gonna reformat.
Hopefully we got everything uploaded andthen the backup card stays in the camera.
(35:25):
And then we're, getting ready for thenext shoot, which is usually the next day.
Yep.
Yeah.
We forgot.
We're running through.
Imagen and then fill today,
right?
Yep.
Run it through.
Imagen.
And, that'll take.
We will automatically goahead and just, just send it.
We'll go ahead and just send,send the, that catalog on over.
And then, the, the next day when we comeback into the office in the morning,
(35:47):
we're taking those images from Imagenand just spot checking and then, yeah,
uploading them into PhotoDay and thenposting them and then making that money.
Mm-hmm.
Making them money.
I think there's, there's,there's two things here worth,
worth, worth mentioning.
One is, you kind of subtly touched onthis, but there's this domino effect
with the volume work where if one partof the process of one job gets messed up.
(36:10):
Of some way it impacts those,following it in some aspect as well.
So, it is very, you know, important asyou said to, to really pay attention
and make sure everything's donecorrectly for, for a lot of these tasks
so that there's no domino effect andeverything else remains on, on schedule.
Yeah.
I mean, you know, for, for Carinna.
(36:31):
Like literally like, we'll, we'll ona busy Saturday we will have seven
cameras in the field, you know, sowe have to upload, we have to keep
track of seven different cameras.
And before, Imagen when wesend it overseas, we could
only send 500 images at a time.
So, you know, we'd come back from aweekend with thousands and thousands
of images, and you're talking aboutif we came back with 5,000 images,
(36:55):
which could be a typical thing,that means that Carinna has to bust
that up into 10 different catalogs.
to send o overseas because internetconnection's not that good over there.
So, but then you have to addMonday through Thursday shoots.
So, I mean, we have this, this board overhere that would be full of catalogs in
which Carinna just had to keep track of.
Right.
(37:15):
And if there was somewhere in thosecatalogs were one image or images, a set
of a hundred images weren't uploaded.
Then we have to go back andsearch in the memory cards.
And I mean, it was just, just this hugetask that only Carinna could do, you know?
So now with Imagen it'sliterally one quick catalog.
You know, we went from on abig shoot from having seven
(37:36):
catalogs to keep up with to one.
You know what I mean?
And that's just been like such a, a huge.
Change for us, and it doesn't, youknow, we're not, you know, losing,
it's a lot more difficult to loseimages now that we have this system
compared to what we were doing before.
Right.
Mm-Hmm
yeah.
And you're, you're sendingsmart previews, and they're not,
(37:56):
they're not going overseas now.
They're staying.
In the US going to US Amazon servers,which are, you know, so you're getting
as fast as you possibly can get,
Yes.
at the end of the day.
another thing that, you definitelymentioned this at the bootcamp, and
I think you subtly mentioned it justnow, is you're not really culling,
you are, you're doing a quick passjust to ensure that like, you know,
(38:19):
there's nothing just completely blurry.
and, and you're just sending 'em allfor editing because you're not shooting.
With super high, you know, highspeed burst, you're shooting
high volume with intention.
Every single time you click thatshutter button, there's a reason for it.
so, I think it's worth, worth, worthpointing out that, it's, it's a
lot of photos that you're doing andevery single one, the goal, there's
(38:43):
one goal and that's to sell it
correct.
single one.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, it's been great with mirrorlesscameras is really that I feel like
everything just kind of came togetherperfectly at one time between
software and mirrorless camerasand that electronic viewfinder.
And, before with DSLRs,you had to be real careful.
Like my thing was, is like, do not takethe photo until the subject is ready.
(39:04):
The worst thing you do as a photographeris take the photo and they'd be like, oh,
can you adjust this, that, or the other?
Adjust everything first.
Then take the photo, you know?
And so, same thing with over tomirrorless, but now we have the advantage
of seeing the photo in the back of thecamera as soon as we take the image.
So you take the photo, you got it, youmove on to the next, whether it be, you
know, we're changing our camera fromportrait to landscape or whatever it
(39:24):
may be, but we try to be intent, likeyou said, intentional about each photo.
So that way, I mean, 'cause we, andthe other thing that photographers
do is you take one good photo andit's so great that you take it again.
You know, you just keep lookinglike, oh, that look good.
Take it one more time.
And that's where she gets upset.
She goes, why do we have fourphotos that look exactly the same?
You know?
So you have to be kind of disciplinedbecause the other part of it is, is you
(39:48):
have, you have literally 10 minutes toget through 12 kids plus buddy photos
with their photo, with their coach,with their sibling, that sort of thing.
So you might be taking 17 subjectsand you have 10 minutes to do it,
so you don't have a lot of time.
To be messing around, you gotta getyour five or six photos, get 'em outta
the way, and move on to the next team.
(40:09):
Otherwise, you're gonna have a bunchof mad coaches standing there behind
you and parents and kids crying.
It can be very stressful, so youhave to be really smart the way
you do it once you get on site.
Right.
Because it is the time saver, right.
That that's the part, like nothaving to call, as you said Yeah.
Is really a time saver.
Like people don't realize, they'relike, oh, you know, I can just,
(40:29):
it's, it's always like doing thefallback on, on, I'll just take
care of it when I get in the office.
Yeah.
And that's, I, I, absolutely,
Yeah.
I cannot live that way.
No.
Yeah.
It works for some genres, but in yourgenre it can't because of, because
of the level of volume you're doing
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
you know, you never know.
(40:49):
Maybe down the road there'llbe AI trained on, on.
On your type of work, andthen there will be culling.
That can help just take outthat one that you don't need.
But, it, I think it was, it wasimportant for, when you said it at the
bootcamp, and I think it's importantfor everybody to hear now here to
who's listening now to also hear it.
that culling isn't always requiredif you're shooting with intention.
(41:14):
So, my last question to you bothis, You have a profile now available
with Imagen for anybody to utilize.
All they have to do is buy it.
what did we, what did,what did you call it?
Was it just called the
smaX
Photography?
Sports portraits?
I think,
I think so.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think the word smacks is attached to it.
I know.
(41:34):
smaX, yeah.
smaX sports.
Yeah.
Yeah.
yeah.
Something like that.
it is called smaXPhotography Sports Portraits.
Can you describe your, your editingstyle, so that everybody's listening who
might be interested can then go to theshow notes, check out the link, and buy
your profile if they want it or try it.
They can try it before they buy it too.
(41:54):
So,
Sure.
Can you describe what,
I think I'll try to, and then ifI'm wrong, Carinna can correct me.
Okay.
all, all of our typically, Youknow, we are shooting, you know,
sometimes as sports photographers,you don't get the best location.
You have to go off in corner somewhere.
So we typically shoot at avery shallow depth of field.
you know, we want the subject popping out.
And our profile, we've always had alittle bit of a vignette on our photos.
(42:18):
we wanna, really make the, the green grasspop and the blue skies pop when we can.
so we, we increase the bluesand greens a little bit.
then also we have some contrast in there.
typically we're shooting youth sports,so skin's really not a big deal for us.
Typically, I would say 90% of our,our athletes have good skin, so we
(42:38):
can maybe even bump up a clarity ortexture a little bit in our profile.
just, you know, provide that sharpness,that we don't really have to, but
Imagen does do the, the face, right?
Yeah.
So we do increase, the clarity and thesharp and, and the, texture a little bit.
just to make the uniforms in, inthe, the sky and the grass pop.
And we are off camera flash too,so yes, every, with at least a
(43:00):
two light set up or more so two ormore lights, never on camera flash.
Mm-Hmm
a lot of the times you're saying two, twoor three lights, because a lot of times
you're being back lited by the sun or thatyou're, you're, the kids are being back
lit by the sun, so there is another light.
It's just, that's yournatural light that Right.
So, so are you saying that, justto, just to clarify, are you
(43:21):
saying that in some, in some way.
The colors of the uniforms and theoverall scene are more important than
the skin tones in some cases, becausethat's, it's a team, it's team photos,
you know, at the end of the day.
or is it just, that's just the focuspoint that you've, that you've made,
for the, for your editing style?
(43:43):
I mean, not, there's no wrong way of
Right, right, right.
No, I think that, I thinkthat we've always, bumped up
the clarity on our profiles.
Like whenever we're in Lightroom,we're always bumping up the clarity.
And I think you have to bereally careful with that.
People who have bad skin, you know?
'cause that's just gonna make, yeah.
So that's, that's more what I mean.
We still want the skin toneslooking correct and, so, but I
(44:03):
think adding a touch of vibrance.
Pretty much to everything in sportsphotos, a little bit more saturation in
those uniforms is, you know, the colorsyou can get away a little bit more.
you know, where like a seniorphotographer, they might wanna
have some muted colors, you know,with sports we don't do that.
Parents like bold, bright,
Yeah,
vibrant colors.
So we, you know, we try to bumpthose up, you know, as much as
(44:26):
we can without looking fake.
Right, right.
so for those listening, if youwanna try it, I will link to the,
profile that you can check out.
You can try it before you even buy it.
it is also worth noting that, asJay said, there is a vignette.
In the, in the, in the editingstyle, if you are not a fan of
vignette, 'cause some people don't.
in Imagen there's actually a featurecalled a profile adjustments.
(44:49):
And in there you could actually overridethe vignette on their profile and say,
do everything but don't do the vignette.
And, And so you can havesome personal control.
In fact, it's also worth noting thatwhen, if, if you buy the smaX photography
sports portrait profile, it's actuallya personal AI profile on your own
(45:09):
account that learns from you over time.
So, it's, it would be as if you made ityourself and, you're just using their
style as a starting point that thenyou can continue going and it'll just
get smarter and smarter on your needs.
We've put a lot of photos.
We have put a lot of images in there.
Yes.
(45:30):
To note
that, that this is definitely, Ifeel like it's been very fine tuned,
as you all do have a fine tuning.
it has been fine tuned and we dohave, a lot of, especially like our
Bootcampers, the ones who've attended ourbootcamp, is they, they ask us, 'cause
you know, the editing is usually the.
Sticking point, for a lot of peoplewho come into the volume world is
(45:50):
they're like, now I gotta edit all these
Yeah.
So, so for them, because you gottainternal know they're hearing Yeah,
they're hearing about Imagen we're,we're talking a lot about it, because
it's really revolutionized our like.
Office life.
And so, we have a lot of photographerswho are asking, you know, can I, you
know, can I get a profile from you?
Is there a starting pointthat I can start with?
(46:11):
So, I do think, I mean,
it's a good one.
If I
was listening and I wasn't coursephotographer, that wasn't me would get it.
I would so be into it because we have,we have put a lot, we put an entire
season basically into it, and we'retalking about editing wise, it has.
me, Jody, Jamie, we're all three of us.
(46:31):
We went through, getting all theimages backed from Imagen and making
sure everything was fine tuned.
It's not like we created it and thenwe just ran everything through it,
and then we're like, okay, now buy it.
No, we went through, I mean.
There's a lot, there's a lot ofpictures and for three people to
constantly be going through anddouble checking because we're used
to hand checking everything anyhow.
(46:52):
So I had everybody go throughthat process of hand checking,
I mean, tens of thousands ofimages, that's been double checked.
So I do feel like this is verymuch, I, I, I highly recommend it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
one more thing that, that I, I, I meantto bring up earlier, that you just
brought up your team again and I waslike, oh yeah, I wanted to bring this up.
(47:13):
I think it's important to everybody know,like, yes, there's the two of you, right?
You, you own this business.
you might be the mastermindsbehind the business, but you have
a team that not only helps you.
When you're actually doing the jobs.
But at the, at the, at the bootcamp,they were there as well helping.
And not only are they very nice aswell, but they know your business.
(47:35):
They know, that, so if somebody, if one ofthe students had a question and they went
up to them, they knew how to answer itwithout having to come to the both of you.
Right.
And I think that's reallyimportant for any, any, volume
photographer of any genre.
To make sure that the team that youhave, not only do you trust them,
not only are they good people,but they truly know your business.
(47:56):
Because if you don't have a team behindyou that knows your business as well
as you do, or almost as well as youdo, it can make or break things right?
And you've, you've over time, you've builtthis team, of, of fantastic people that
really add a lot of value to what you do.
So just wanna point that out.
I agree.
(48:17):
That's awesome to hear.
Yeah,
okay.
thank you both for joining me.
I, I really appreciate it.
I'm so glad you were both ableto, to come together for this.
where can listeners learn more about you?
Connect with you, of course.
See your awesome sport photography.
yeah.
We have, boatwright, boatwrightbootcamp.com is, our workshops.
(48:37):
Mm-Hmm.
smack heart.
S-M-A-X-A-R t.com is our website.
Mm-Hmm.
on Instagram, I'm smaX,it's sm a X_ photography.
Yeah.
And, and where else?
Oh, we, we periodically, we do, someeducating also at some, some of the shows.
I don't know if we're gonnado anything this coming year,
(48:59):
probably, maybe SPAC, I don't know.
Yeah.
But you can also find us there too.
Yeah.
Awesome.
They're very friendly.
If you're listening,they're very friendly.
If you do see them at oneof the events, go say hi.
absolutely.
thank you again, both of you.
All right.
Appreciate it.
Thank you, Scott.
Thank
you, Scott.
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