July 24, 2023 • 71 mins
This week on Zen Perry Project, we’re joined by Annabel Asher - a phenomenal vocalist with impeccable style who recently released a stellar debut single “555”. After meeting a few weeks ago sharing a stage at Bowery Electric, this cheeky conversation felt like it could’ve gone on forever - we discuss everything from wondering how artists occasionally believe themselves to be exempt from the basic morals of human decency to Annabel’s plans as a dictator after inevitably achieving world domination. This episode also includes ZPP's first first announcement?!
Photo by Meghan Marshall
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Say, on the show we have Annabelle Asher.
Thanks for being here.
You're a musician that I justplayed on a bill with.
I was playing with Capri Nautz.
We played Bowrie Electric andthat was the sixth show.
That was a super fun show.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I'm nodding because it was.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yeah, you guys killed it.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Oh, thank you.
So did you, guys oh thank youso much.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
That was my first show in New York and I am, I'm
hooked.
I'm gonna go back out there anddo some more shows, for sure,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Dude, you guys really like rocked my shit Like I.
Seriously I have not stoppedthinking about that performance
because it was just so nextlevel, it was so amazing.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Well, thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
And you and you really turned it.
And I remember my partnerturned to me and was like look
at the drummer, cause you were.
You were doing your little Like.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Yeah, that's my thing .
Whenever people get pictures ofme, they're always in the air.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
We got like a picture .
Does this guy ever actuallylike hit the drums?
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Cause according to the pictures, he's just I was
not expecting to play like thateither.
Like I when I was practicing athome, I was just playing on my
little like electronic pads andI was just taking it, taking it
slow.
We only had one rehearsalbefore that and it was like I
barely knew the songs.
But, but time it came to it Iwas just like no, I'm just going
to rock the fuck out, I don'tknow, this is what I like to do.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I literally got up and under the right table and
just you know, always trying tofigure out what this thing is
all about.
This is pretty, that's right.
And so the thing complicated inthe first place that we did was
the back Housing.
I'm like player hands thatritohard.
But, yeah, I felt grieved, likeme at the start of we were
(01:48):
making a big year inilia, so,but they were about to they let
us just fire it really hardbecause it was just like, hey,
okay, so I am gonna be missingsoundcheck, but I have Nat next
to me if you want her to play.
And I was like, of course, likewhat?
And she's just such a virtuoso,like like knew everything, like
(02:13):
so quickly, like we didn't evenhave a rehearsal with her, and
it was just like, yeah, so shoutout to my band Nat, jack Clay,
david, you guys, you guys reallykilled it and thank you for
your kind words.
And yeah, like I said, I just Iwas so blown away by you guys,
(02:34):
by your whole stage presence ofthe band, but like Kate's music
is just like crazy, it's soinsane, like she really has, she
has it all together.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
She really does.
She's a.
She's really incredible.
But I mean, your whole band wassuper, super tight.
I think that's a very kindwords all around.
That was.
That was just an electric night.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
It really was.
It was an electric night.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yeah, I mean for a Sunday, great turnout too Great
turnout, yeah, oh my God.
Yeah, how do you?
How would you describe you likeyour music in general?
Because, when?
Because I hadn't really heardyou other than five, five, five,
your single, which one we'regoing to talk about?
How?
Because you kind of have like ajazz thing going on, you kind
of have electric thing going on.
What are your influences?
What do you, what, whatinspires you?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah, great question.
And when I was expecting exceptone I will never be prepared
for.
I feel like every artist likefreaks out when someone asks
like, so what style do you do?
Unless they're like hard prog,rock, like, it's always like
either something ridiculouslyspecific or it's just a mishmash
of a million things.
And I'm the latter.
I feel like I take inspirationfrom mainly synth and electro
(03:48):
pop and garage jazz, r&b,classic soul, but also like
trance music and like justelectronic music, like you know,
computer music, pc music, thecomputer as an instrument, that
(04:08):
kind of vibe.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Five, five, five is definitely more of a garage
inspired track.
We were definitely like lookingat, you know Russian garage
house bands like Molkat, domaand then like iDress, just sort
of like lo-fi.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
But what did you just call that Russian?
What?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Russian, russian garage, I guess.
Okay, fuck yeah, I feel likethe Russian wave is coming Like,
like it really is like.
I don't know if you heard rushby choice of on, but I was gonna
, I was gonna say Putin agrees.
It feels very, you know butyeah, that's awesome, yeah, and
then, yeah, I feel like in termsof like actual artists, like my
(04:56):
biggest influences are.
They're all over the place, butlike a few highlights would be
like LCD sound system Jill Scott, tori Mois, Rihanna, aliyah Mac
Miller, nine Inch Nails,charlie Kendrick, gaga.
(05:17):
You know the all the classics.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Justin Timberlake.
That was an extremely wide.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
I know it's crazy, I'm just looking through my like
my playlist of artists andsongs that I think like parlay
into my sound and I'm like, yeah, it's so all over the place.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Do you have a Spotify playlist of that shit?
Speaker 2 (05:37):
It's, yeah, it's called Album Mask and I will.
I'll send it to you guys, butAll right, Aliyah yeah.
And then, yeah, there's some,there's some Pixies on here,
some MGMT, some Azalea Banks.
My body is a cage arcade fire.
You know, I like, I like thedrama, I like dark, I love dark
(06:01):
pop and like the sort of.
That's why I like I'm obsessedwith Kate is because I feel like
she really does a great job ofcreating that, that world.
And so, basically, like mystyle is whatever the fuck I
feel like making, and then belowthat it's probably just like
(06:23):
like alternative.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Like lo-fi alternative, let's just say that
.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
I, how did you?
Okay, I have so many questions,I guess.
First is how did you and Katemeet or just get acquainted?
I don't even know.
Kate doesn't even know thatwe're doing this interview.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I know we're just gassing her and like she has no
idea, it's so funny I'm being afriend behind her back.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
I am not, I'm just not.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yeah, we're talking, yeah we're talking mad shit
about Kate.
No, I, we literally met throughthat bill and I like I'll be
totally honest, sometimes thegig finesse bills are not 100%
awesome front to back.
You know, love to my, love tomy indie musicians, but
(07:12):
sometimes it's just like like itdoesn't mesh or there's just
not a chemistry between theartists.
But this one we really mesh,like all of us.
We really me, noah, lizzie andKate like we all had a group
chat beforehand and just likegot to know each other a bit,
and so I was just kind of likestalking Kate social media and
(07:33):
Spotify and stuff and I was justlike holy shit, like wow, this
is very inspired and inspiring.
And, yeah, kind of lit a fireunder my ass.
Honestly, I was like fuck, likeI, I can and should be really
(07:54):
doing this.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Yeah, did you, because you released 5.55 right
before that show, right.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
I released it June 9th, so a little like like
exactly a month before actually.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
That was close.
What I mean.
What was, what was the timingfor that Like, yeah, I mean so.
How did how did this even comeabout?
Because you, you know how tosing like where?
Where did you learn how to singLike?
What's your whole musicbackground?
Where are you from?
You're in LA.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Yeah, yeah, I'm in LA right now.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
I'm at my parents house.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
That where you're from yes, I'm from LA, I'm a
Valley girl.
I'm from Woodland Hills, ifyou're at all familiar, it's
like oh yeah, it's like, yeah,it's right next to Calabasas.
So I grew up, you know, inKardashian County, but, you know
, adjacent, definitely not likein the thick of it, I just like
went to school out there andhave a lot of friends out there,
(08:47):
etc.
So you know, I did a lot ofmusical theater growing up, did
a lot of, you know.
I did vocal lessons from likewhen I was like eight, just
because my parents were supersupportive and they saw that I
had a passion and talent andthey wanted to nurture that.
So I'm forever appreciative forthat foundation I have been.
(09:10):
I self taught myself guitarwhen I was like 12.
And I've always been like,proficient at guitar.
It's not my main instrument,but I love playing guitar.
I've definitely been working atit and trying to get better,
because it is as a solo act,like oftentimes it's just me and
(09:32):
me and my guitar.
So, yeah, and then, yeah,musical theater was my biggest
sort of training in terms of howto sing and how to perform and
that's where I learned likevocal support and how to
harmonize and like how to conveyemotion through a song, and I
(09:56):
really carry that with me in mymusic, even though I'm not doing
musical theater.
Obviously it's just the like.
Being able to command the stageand tell a story through a song
definitely came from my musicaltheater studies.
And then I also did dance and Ijust have always been.
(10:18):
You know, I feel like I reallystarted to become like a music
head in middle school, likethat's when I started to be like
pretentious about it.
You know, I was like you guyshave never heard of Frank Ocean.
Wow, it was like I was, I was, Iwas that kid but yeah, I think
the mix of that and then justlike singing to the radio every
day of my life forever, likebeing in the car, and especially
(10:42):
in the era of pop music that Igrew up in, it was very vocal,
heavy, like I'm thinking of likechandelier and like all of Lady
Gaga's discography and likeHalo and just these really
vocally demanding songs that Iwanted to sing along to to the
much to the chagrin of everybodyelse in the car.
(11:03):
But yeah, it was definitelylike.
The radio definitely raised meand I think that has a huge
impact on my sound today, bothlike the serious elements of it,
but also like the unserious,like kitsch elements of it.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Yeah, you talked about at this show that you
would like listen to the radiofor hours and hours and you
played a.
Are you Gonna Be my Girl?
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Hell yeah, I did.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
So I guess you mentioned some of those other
songs.
But so you said your parentswere super supportive and your
mom was at the show.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yeah, that was amazing.
She flew out from LA just forthe show.
What a queen.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Wow yeah, and I'm sure she had a great time she
did that was super cool.
So when was like your firsttime actually like playing live
or playing or, I guess, being insort of a setting of?
I mean, I guess he did theater,but what about just like more
of just like a music setting?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Yeah, just like my solo stuff.
So in college I went toWesleyan, I did acapella.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Where is that?
Speaker 2 (12:10):
It's in Middletown, connecticut, it's a liberal art
school.
It's like it's very, you know,artsy but also intellectual.
So like I felt like I was verywell suited.
You know it was.
It was it was touch and go,because it was like the pandemic
hit like right in the middle.
So but I digress, I didn't haveas much performing experience
(12:32):
in college as I obviously wantedto, because half of it was
online.
But when I was there I didacapella.
My group was called Quasimodoand just like group singing
really resonated with me.
And then just I think I thinkit took a little while for me to
(12:56):
build up the confidence to belike I can be this, I can do
this and I can do it on my own.
And so my first performance, asyou know, as me, as as Annabelle
Asher, as a solo act, was atWesleyan it was.
It was really like chaotic.
It's because it's such a, youknow, because everybody there is
(13:18):
so neurotic and involved,there's always shit going on
like every hour, every day, likethere's always at least three
things that you need to be atand you can't be at all of them.
So I had a show on a Sunday atlike 530 in Music Hallis, which
is like way off campus and someof my friends came, but it was
(13:40):
not a very well attended showand it wasn't like a the kind of
show that I envisioned myselfdoing at all, because I, you
know, with my style of music, I,I, I envision, you know, like a
dark, dank room and like justthat sense of like intimacy.
But I think that first showreally like made it obvious that
(14:03):
you can't control thecircumstances when you're
performing and you just kind ofhave to like do your thing and
whatever the audience does istheir business.
I feel like audience engagementis a big part of my act because
I also did improv, so I'm likepretty well versed in audience
interaction and it doesn't likeI have to do a lot of self talk
(14:27):
when you know I have an audience.
Like like that day I had to doa lot of self talk, like this
doesn't reflect on me as anartist or person and the people
who are here are really here andthat's what matters.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Hey, whoa, what do you mean by that part?
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Like like there were maybe 15 people there, but all
of them were really present andlike watching me and we're like
giving me energy, you know, andthat was that was really nice to
to have, even though it wasn'tnecessarily like a full packed
room.
I was like, oh, you guys arebeing nice to me and I was like,
(15:06):
okay, yeah, like I can, I cando this even if there's nobody
at my gig.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, they, there was , there was.
Well, I guess if you're talkingabout specifically, there's
more people, not batteryelectric gig, but oh, yeah, way
more people.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
I just mean like that was my very first show and then
, like after the fact, most ofmy shows have been pretty well
populated.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Okay, funny story about this is I've been playing
drums forever and I have beenbanned since I was like 12.
And he has.
She asked me questions becauseI've just played more shows in
her and she's like, oh, what ifthere's not that many people
there?
It's like I've been.
I've played so many shows whereI was like there was more
people in the band and therewere in the room.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
And then you just like, can't you just?
And she's like I don't want todo that.
I'm like, yeah, nobody does.
But it's also like kind of funand it's almost like a right of
passage to say you've done theselike yes, like gigs.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Right, and then for the people who are at those gigs
, you know, down the line, it'sa badge of honor for them to be
like.
Yeah, I saw this person like,and there are four people there
and it they still turned it.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
That's a sign of a true performer, like someone who
you know can, can keep itpushing, despite if the audience
is not giving you what you want.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Exactly, yeah.
And and like I did a tour witha band they're called Hot Crazy.
They were just starting up butI knew they were going to be big
.
And they went on tour with myband and we just like there was
barely anybody at these showsbut they they could have been
playing a stadium like with justtheir energy.
They didn't go fuck who was outthere, like they were out there
(16:50):
to have fun themselves and thatwas like a big turning point
for me.
I was like every time I get toplay drums, you know it's like a
die tomorrow, you know, mightas well just do it, yeah exactly
, exactly.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
It's such a privilege to like be able to do it and to
be doing it on the level where,like, people will pay to see it
.
You know, it's not just like ahobby thing, you know, but but
yeah, that was that's sort of my, my, my show background, my my
history on the stage.
How old are you?
I'm 23.
(17:22):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
You're 20.
You're the same age as Kate.
Yes, my plan out here.
We're getting old, we're almostfreaking 30.
Whoa, yeah, well, anyway.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Grab the grab the walkers.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Grab the walkers.
Yeah, bust it out.
This is not a walking friendlycity.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
It is not.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah, yeah, but where the fuck was I going with that?
I'm 23.
What's your plan?
Like, what do you like?
What do you want to do?
Like I mean, you'd say, you'rejust starting to release music
as your own name.
What's what's the?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
what's the plan?
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
World domination total indoctrination.
Ultimately, I would love to bea world dictator.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
No, I'm kidding.
What are you on that?
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Can you?
Can you expound on that?
No, Actually, I just want toreach the people who I need to
reach.
But that's a very, you know,abstract, broad goal.
But in terms of like next steps, I would love.
So I have another song comingout August 18th called the line
yeah.
So first, first look firstannouncement is on this podcast
(18:32):
and grass yeah.
So I have another single comingout and then I'm working on my
EP right now, which I would loveto tour.
So that's sort of the next POAfor me is like recording the
songs that I already have andlike getting them, you know,
(18:56):
getting them tight and ready forstreaming and then hopefully
building up enough of anaudience that I can do a small
tour, and that would be amazing.
But in the long term, I wouldlove to be doing all kinds of
stuff.
Like I am definitely aninterdisciplinary artist, I'm a
(19:17):
writer and a singer, obviously,but I would love to be acting
and doing fashion and, you know,just being part of, like the
creative Culture and also justthe pop culture, because I love
pop culture.
It's like so delicious for me,I always have, and so being part
of the conversation would beamazing and like I just would
(19:43):
love to have.
I would love to just be able tomake a living doing this, like.
Ultimately, that is that is mylike base goal.
But if we're shooting for themoon, like, I would love to play
the Hollywood ball one day, youknow.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yeah, that was unabashedly.
That was I love when people arehonest.
Yeah, I love pop culture.
I just want to be part of theconversation.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
That's like.
Who doesn't like?
Speaker 1 (20:07):
I literally a lot of people I mean that's true,
that's true.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
I mean, I guess, when I think of like who does it,
I'm like what lead singerdoesn't want to be like showered
with attention?
Speaker 1 (20:19):
That's true, that's true, I don't yeah there's a
there's very few singers I'velike met that are not kind of
ego heads, which that's like myfavorite thing.
I love that like the drummersinger dynamic is always like a
fun one.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
It's hilarious because the drummers have no ego
like y'all.
Y'all had ego death from anacid trip four years ago and
it's like and we're just rockingand like we're like so in our
heads about like you know whateverything means and whatever
it's I think that's generallywhy drummers and singers tend to
like hang out most in the band,or at least when I've like just
(20:54):
seen people on tour or whateverlike that.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
It's like it's like the total opposites, like I get
you, you get me, and like we'renothing alike, though.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Right, we're so entertained by the others thing.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yeah, we can protect each other from our emotions.
We don't want to likeexperience.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Right, right.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Yeah, but in general though, like but you know, there
are all, like the exceptionsthat rule.
There's some singers.
Of course, of course, and theyhate singing live, but they're
so fucking good.
People are like, yeah, do it,though I want to yeah.
Well, Frank like.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Frank Ocean, for example.
I mean, that whole Coachellathing was so whack, but I saw
him live in 2017 at FYF in LAand it was literally his last
live performance Since thatCoachella thing.
So I I saw in real time likesomeone who is such a star and
(21:47):
who is so relevant, but whohates being in the public eye
and like literally activelyavoids playing shows, and I'm
like music really comes in allshapes and sizes and just
because you sing doesn't meanyou want to be the center of
attention, or just because youdon't sing doesn't mean you
(22:08):
don't want to be the center ofattention.
You know, I feel like like Idon't know.
I think about band members whoare just, who just always play
for other artists, and I'm likeI wonder, I wonder if that is
enough or if there is sort oflike an urge to do your own
(22:31):
thing.
But I don't know, I guessthat's a question for you.
Now it's my podcast.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yeah, I mean, I think I'm a pretty show off e-drummer
.
I just can't help it.
I do, like you know, it's fun.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
You gotta, you gotta.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Yeah, I mean because I don't know you can be such a
boring drummer and I don't knowlike playing in the pockets like
great and stuff like that.
But I mean I don't know ifyou're kind of come to a show.
I want to give people a reasonto actually like, come to a show
.
What is, what is?
What was your whole likethought on Frank Goshenstein?
Because he what?
What happened to Coachella?
He like didn't play a full setor he was just over it, or what
(23:08):
was the whole?
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Basically, first of all, he had this huge set that
he was supposed to, not not likeset as in music set, but like a
physical set.
It was, there was an ice rinkand there were going to be ice
skaters that were like likelooping around him as he sang
and then, like an hour beforethe show, he's like actually I
(23:29):
don't want that, and so they hadto like completely reorganize
the stage set up and then itjust ended up being him Like you
couldn't even see him.
There was literally a group ofpeople like walking around him
in a circle the entire show.
You couldn't see his face, youcould barely hear him.
He wasn't singing, he was justlike playing tracks, basically,
(23:49):
and people you know, people whohad waited for years and years
and years to see him performwere all devastated because they
were like what, like that's it.
And then he cut the show earlyand I think he went past Curfew
and like started late as well.
So just like a prettydisrespectful to the fans, like,
(24:12):
especially because it wasCoachella and that shit is so
expensive, like so many peopleprobably, like minimum, spent
$1,000 just to be there, and itjust shows a level of detachment
from that being in that placeas an artist where, like you
understand what it's like to,you know to be on either side,
(24:37):
like you want to see a greatshow but you also want to give
it.
Give a great show because youshould feel and you should feel
entitled, like your fans areentitled to that and you should
feel like you owe them that.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yeah.
Yeah, it's a rough.
It's a rough spot to be inbecause you know I don't know
what you do for work.
But like you know, I end upworking service industry stuff
when I'm not doing music stuff.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Right.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
And you're just like some days, you just don't want
to fucking deal with people.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yeah, I mean.
So Michael just saw a littleNas X at what Governor's ball
Was that right?
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Oh, really Like a real horse.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
And was like I'm sorry, guys, I don't want to be
here right now, and thenabsolutely crushed it, but it
was so.
Yeah, sometimes like peoplejust have like a bad day and it
shows.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Yeah, yeah, it honestly like could, could have
been that deep.
It could have been not thatdeep, it could have just been
like I have a stomach ache, orit could have been.
I also know that Frank had ahad a little brother who passed
away and he he mentionedsomething like I used to go to
Coachella with my little brotherand so this is like really
(25:57):
meaningful for me.
So I'm sure that was a factor.
But ultimately, like I'm not myI'm not in the business to like
pathologize artists behavior,because artists are insane.
They're just like they're justsimply unpredictable and hard to
hard to read and also like kindof think they're exempt from
the rules of basic ethics andmorals and human decency, so
(26:24):
like.
But then, on the other hand,like that's kind of fun, like
how depraved everyone is makesfor, makes for good stories and
good music.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Exactly, and I think, yeah, that's, that's the whole
point and it's such a it's sucha hard hump to get over to
actually get to the point whereyou're playing shows and people
actually expect stuff of you andyou're making enough money to
get to do these things.
Exactly.
I think that's when peoplealways like feel this weird
thing.
It's like, yeah, I would loveto have that problem where I
like wake up all hungover inEurope and I'm like I gotta go
(26:55):
play a show.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
I have to play primavera sound right now, like
after being on a yacht all day.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Yeah, I'm tired, Like it just.
It's just such an unrealisticthing.
But you know, but in order toactually be that successful as a
musician, you have to work yourass off all the time.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Literally like, and that's kind of where I'm at.
I mean, I don't really need tobe like yachting in Capri, as
Beyonce would say.
Like I, I would love to be likebe able to like finance my
basic needs with music and Iknow that that's not going to
come through streaming and solike finding other avenues to to
(27:40):
make money while still beinginvolved in music or like vocal
production in some way.
So like right now I'm trying toget into more freelance stuff
doing, you know, like, likemusic content, like like that's
what Kate does, she, you got totalk to her about that.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Yeah, definitely she has a lot of like writing stuff,
and she can go to school forthat either.
Yeah weird stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Exactly I want to.
I want to be doing those weirdlike odd articles and, like you
know, making royalty free musicfor like a TikTok commercial or
something like that.
I think at this point in mylife is like I'm not above that
at all, and I think for a whileI don't know I think when I was
in college I was so isolated anddidn't have to actually like
(28:32):
encounter the real world that Ijust had a really idealized
vision of like my, my come up orwhatever.
And I don't think it's likethat for anyone Like they're.
Even even my friends, who aresigned and successful and you
know, by all means, should belike over the moon have to have
(28:54):
to work literally all the timebecause they're under the
jurisdiction of other people now, and so I don't know.
I always remember, like this isyou're doing this because it
brings you the most joy, likethis is what you're doing with
your life because it brings youthe most joy.
So like don't, don't let thatjoy be sucked away from it Just
(29:20):
through, like the frustration ofwanting to make something good
or something people will listento, you know, or like, or just
being making it, doing it in apure commercial sense, can
really be soul sucking.
So, just like I don't know, Ifeel like I like I need to
remain.
I don't know I need to not beas jaded and I just let the.
(29:43):
By the way I do, that is justlistening to me new music and
old music and going to shows andfeeling like hopeful, like okay
.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Do you feel like you're just getting started like
with, with kind of stuff you'redoing, like when did you start
releasing music?
And I wish you could starttalking about 555.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Yeah, there's a lot to do.
Yeah, I'm a chatty.
I'm a chatty chatty cat.
I feel like I could talk to youfor quite a while.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Oh yeah, we should all hang out with you.
I feel like we should get thatwhole fucking group that.
Let's do it together at somepoint, like bowling.
I'm going bowling right afterthis.
Actually, no way.
I had a fucking great day.
I went to the beach.
It was nice as they've had inNew York.
I just hang out with you andMichael and I'm going bowling
seeing a show tonight.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Wow, wow, that's amazing.
I'm going to a midnight showBarbie tonight, so I'm also very
excited.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
That's tomorrow.
I mean, that's like, oh my God,that we're upon the open.
Open, barbie, what are theycalled?
Speaker 2 (30:48):
It's barb and hyper time and I'm seeing up and I'm
around Saturday, so and then I'mgoing to a show on whatever
Okay, off topic, 555.
So 555 is my debut single.
That is my first song I've everdropped and it was.
We recorded it about a year agoto the date that it was dropped
(31:08):
.
So it was.
It took a long time because myfriends and collaborators are
amazing and incredibly talented,which means they are very busy
all the time.
So, like in the interest ofwanting to keep it in the family
(31:33):
, I was like, okay, I wouldrather just have this be the
best that I can make it and dropit on my own time.
Then just like rush it.
And that's what I did, and I'mglad that I did, because it
really is like exactly how Iwanted it to be.
I mean, now I can't listen toit because it makes me crazy,
but like when I, when I couldstill listen to it, I was like
(31:59):
this is amazing.
Yeah, thank you.
Charlie Kilgore is the producerand he's in the band.
Michelle, if you know them,they're like a like a neo R&B,
soul slash pop group from NewYork and they're they're quite a
(32:21):
.
They're playing Lala, which ispretty fucking sick, yeah.
So they're like they'redefinitely on the up, up and up.
And then my friend, finn FinnBennett, mixed it and he totally
brought the song to the nextlevel.
It just really like he hereally should have a producer
credit because it totallymorphed the song, his mix, and
(32:45):
just because he put it through abunch of old tape machines and
like really saturated the vocaland like made it sound the way
it's supposed to sound.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
That's.
That's the thing about it'slike you have it's like kind of
like a pro pop kind of indievibe to, but your vocals and I
think it's probably one of thefair things about your show is
that it's like this like deep,brooding, like jazz voice that
you have.
Yeah like the saturation andhow everything sounds with.
It is like yeah, that soundsgreat, the vocals are like
(33:18):
perfect for and it's not.
There's nothing quite like it.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
So well that that means so much to me.
Thank you, yeah, I try to.
I try to use my instrument tothe best of my ability.
Where I'm like, okay, I don'thave, you know, like a whispery
Billie Eilish, princess voice,I'm not going to make whispery
music because that is not whatmy instrument is built for.
(33:45):
And so, like I, you know,trying to figure out how to
synthesize, like the productionstyle that I like, which is a
little brutal, like a little, alittle bit yeah.
But then I, you know, I havethis like smooth, sort of like
(34:08):
smooth jazz voice that I can tapinto, which I think is a fun
little contrast.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
You know, what you should do for side work is you
should just, like you know, justread audio books, like,
especially like that's literallywhat I'm trying to do, bro.
Let's, let's fucking do it.
We're setting up a studio here.
We'll put you up.
I've done audio recording.
Yeah, we got it.
We'll stuff to put you to sleep.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Exactly, it's that's.
That's kind of the hustle I'mtrying to get into right now is
just like doing kind ofvoiceover, like filler work.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Yeah, I'm just do it.
Yeah, you got it.
I send my buddy Jake, I sendhim all the voiceover over like
voice acting gigs that I can.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
But yeah, there's, there's a billion out there,
yeah exactly, it's, it's, it's,it's out there, the truth is out
there.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
So yeah, the production.
So what was like your idea withthe song and how?
So you had a producer, you hadsomebody mixing it, you had what
.
At some point you were like Iwant to release a song, I want
to release this song.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Right.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Like what was the, what was the grand idea?
It was like what's crazy islike.
So I'm looking right now youhave 8757 listens.
You're kind of like that andthis is like you just putting
something out there that'sreally good for like a first
release.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Yeah, thank you.
I'm really happy with that aswell.
Like for pretty much noprofessional promo.
Like I paid for like a coupleInstagram ads, but like in
general, that's organic andthat's amazing to me that that a
that people are finding thissong somehow, and be that
(35:47):
they're listening to it multipletimes, like I have my you know,
spotify for artists analyticsand like the average listener
listens to it at least twice andthat's crazy.
I'm like like you came back formore.
That's insane.
So I think so in terms of likedeciding that this was the one
that I wanted to drop is mydebut single.
(36:09):
So the line which is coming outin about a month, was the other
option and they're pretty.
They're very different.
The line is is a lot more jazzyand a lot more ethereal, I
guess, whereas 555 is quiteoblique and intense and I kind
(36:32):
of just wanted to knock down thedoor.
I was just like I want to makean entrance and I don't want it
to go unnoticed and it's reallyhard not to.
It's a very commanding sort ofsong like, especially the that
like baseline and those drums.
They're just so propulsive andI was like, yeah, I really want
(36:55):
this to be like I just it reallysays like I'm here and I'm here
and I really just don't.
I DGAF what I do, I do, I do GF, which is the secret, but in
(37:15):
terms of the like you know, Iwant to anybody no thank you.
Thank you.
Just anyone who listens to thispodcast will know, but anyone
else?
Speaker 1 (37:24):
They'll just be your mom, basically.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, so you recordedthis song like what you said a
year ago, right, so what?
was but you had.
I mean, yeah, you said it'sorganic how people found the
song, but in general, what waslike your?
If you had to like kind of lookback and be like this is all
the promotion I did leading upto the release.
(37:49):
What do you think went well,what do you think didn't?
What did you do to actually getto that point where you
actually had some peoplelistening to it, I mean like the
song?
You worked really hard on thesong and it's that shows and
people are re listening to it,so clearly it sounds good.
But what was the?
What was your marketing, ifanything?
Speaker 2 (38:06):
marketing tactics.
So, another mascot moment.
I hate, hey, doing social mediapromo makes me feel like like a
zebra at the circus doing balltricks and I'm like this is not
my nature.
I'm not the kind of person topost a video on TikTok every day
(38:26):
, like it just doesn't comenaturally to me.
So I really had to get overthat like feeling of, oh, it's
so annoying Everybody thinksit's annoying and just be like
whatever it's.
Everybody knows it's what youhave to do, so just do it,
because the goal right is tolike have the algorithm catch
(38:48):
you and hopefully put you onsomeone's radar that hasn't seen
you before.
That's my current like goal.
And so, for promo, I I knew Ineeded visuals and I knew I
needed a video.
And so my friend Megan Marshallshout out, she is one of the
(39:09):
best artists, photographers inNew York.
She's amazing.
We did a photo shoot which Iended up using one of those
pictures on the cover and then Iuse those pictures as like
initial promo.
And then I was like this isn'tsuper informative, like I think
(39:29):
that I could have probably donesome more teasers, like video
teasers, and that might have,that might have played better.
But I was just like I didn'treally have it yet and I just
didn't.
I don't know.
I was just like, okay, justfucking post something like
don't wait around.
And then my friend, iris IrisOlympia, filmed me running
(39:49):
around their roof and like thatended up being, you know, the
music video and the visuals.
And then my friend, liza LizaGross edited it and did an
amazing job and so ever sinceI've had that footage it's been
a lot easier to promote, Becauseit just seems like short video
(40:11):
content is the most engaging topeople nowadays.
So, like I said, it's hard forme to feel like I am doing that
earnestly and so I really try tonot use like a fake social
(40:33):
media voice.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
I just try to.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
I try to like be my actually myself and like I don't
, I hate, just it's.
I think it's just inherentlyhumiliating to be like
advertising yourself on socialmedia.
In general.
Doesn't matter if you're amusician or just a person.
Speaker 3 (40:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
So once I accepted that, I was like whatever you
know what I?
I'm at a point now where I'mwilling to debase and humiliate
myself for the sake of my music,but I don't think I need to do
it.
I'm just saying like I think alot of artists think they have
to be like in the car with theirex and they're like.
(41:15):
So remember how I told you Iwas never going to write a song
about you?
Well, I did, and here it is,and it's like oh, is this what
it is now?
Like, do we really have to bedoing all this?
Like, yeah, so so there wasalways that side of me that like
you know, the side of me thatfelt like I was at the circus.
(41:37):
But and then, in terms of like,I really was just tick tock and
Instagram, like I didn't haveany other avenues to to use.
Like I don't can't take out abillboard or a radio ad or a
wheat pasting, I'm just likethere's no reason.
There's no reason to it's likeso extra and what is what is
like?
Speaker 1 (41:58):
what is something that you do differently, maybe
for tick tock or Instagram, likeyou personally or do you just
post the just the same stuff onboth?
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Um, I tick tocks a little more, like I would say,
with TikTok.
I like I'll record a video ofmyself in like three times speed
, like, like, listen to my song,like just just being dumb, and
then on Instagram I feel likeit's a little more professional,
(42:27):
a little more editorial, alittle more like high brow not
to say it is always that, but Ijust feel like comedy plays
better on TikTok than onInstagram, and so finding a way
for people to see that I don'ttake myself that seriously, but
I also, like I'm still trying toget myself out there, like
(42:47):
trying to strike that balance, Ithink, is is what the biggest
difference.
And also Instagram, likeInstagram is it's a thirst trap.
Like let's be so real, like,like I definitely have to to
look and act a certain way,present a certain aesthetic.
Yeah, like, like.
(43:08):
I feel like maybe it's justmisogyny or maybe it's just
being like a singer, but theyour look, I think, is important
and your, your, your visuals,whatever, like your look and
visuals are what sets you apart.
Because there's a lot of amazingsingers out there you know,
it's like there's so many, butnot all of them have the eye
(43:33):
catching visuals or the sense ofstyle or the direction, like
the creative, artistic direction, aesthetic direction to make it
really stand out.
And for me, that was likethat's something I've been
thinking about ever since Idecided that I wanted to pursue
this, because I'm somebody who'sreally invested in, you know,
(43:54):
aesthetics and it's just like,like some of some of the best
albums ever have such iconic artthat also like bleeds into the
aesthetic of the band and like,like I don't know thinking of
like Radiohead and Nirvana rightnow, like how, like I don't
(44:15):
know, they match their vibe withtheir visuals and like, for me
I'm somewhere between like anevil succubus and like I know
the way I actually the way Iwould describe me for someone is
(44:36):
like if a lounge singer andlike a brat punk, like had a
baby and so like I use a lot oflike red and purple and just
like I try to keep thingsminimalistic but striking.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Yeah, I would completely agree with that.
It's definitely like when Iwent think of you.
It's like, it's like like a,just a lounge singer, but also
with just this like airy,ethereal, like fast, energetic
electronic thing going on aswell at the same time.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
And that's pretty.
Yeah, no, it's incredible.
I was really, really diggingyour guys' set.
So, yeah, the, the, the, the.
I love how you're thinkingabout it too.
It's like it's.
It's really good for otherpeople to like hear and listen
to other people and how theydevelop their, their themselves,
and yeah, I'm gonna put online.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Yeah, I think that's honestly like I don't know.
There's so many bands in NewYork too, like I think something
that Michelle has done reallywell is is figure out their
aesthetic and not like liketheir stage aesthetic and what
sets them apart.
And so I took a page out oftheir book, for sure, and I was
just like okay, commit tosomething simple that you can
(46:01):
build on.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
Yeah, yeah, and there's.
There's no reason why you haveto like settle down or anything
on it too.
It's just like just do what youlike.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Right, exactly, do shit that you like.
At the end of the day, like doshit that you like and.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Michael and I are fucking terrible with social
media.
We get some amazing people onthe show, we have awesome
episodes of people and we have abunch of like clipped up
episodes of every single likeshow that we've done.
I just don't like posting them.
It feels horrible.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
It feels weird.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
It feels like, it's like I have very intimate
conversations with people, butlike I don't.
Like I don't want.
Like yeah, listen to it if youwant.
I don't want to put that likeonline.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
Like yeah, there's something about right, there's
something about diluting it andforcing it upon other people
that just feels like it kind ofbastardizes it, but also like if
it's getting people to listento the full thing, then like
whatever.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
Every single time we posted like that, we get a bunch
more downloads for stuff andwe're like, well, that was.
That makes sense.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
That helped.
God damn it yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
Okay, so we just a little.
Do you have a few more minutes?
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Yeah, all right, cool .
Speaker 1 (47:13):
Well, so part of what we do for this show is we have
to Instagram stalk everybody.
That we, we, you know, but thiswas hilarious.
This is right at the top ofyour Instagram.
This guy commented.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
Oh, I know exactly what you're going to say.
No, read it.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
And I was like I was on the train coming back from
the beach.
I was like, oh, shit.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
Can you read it for the?
For the yes.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
So it was on the video for 555.
And okay, so this guy, not afan here, just gave 555 a listen
and I really don't likeprofanity.
I don't understand why somesongwriters feel the need to use
vulgar, disrespectful,offensive language in a song.
All created words blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
(48:00):
blah, blah, classless music.
In my opinion, so many good andgreat songwriters over the
years have never used profanity.
Sorry, I'm just not going tofollow you and support your
music.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
I was like okay, bro, I don't give a fuck.
Like, why are you taking thetime out of your life to fucking
write this long ass comment?
First of all, I literally saytwo curse words in the whole
song.
So you're, you can't, you'rescared of bad words, okay.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
I thought I was cracking up, I thought it was so
funny, like well, then I waslooking into the guy and he's
like he's like a grandfather.
I'm just like.
I'm like how did he find hemust have been like through an
ad or something like that?
Like, like through a hashtag orsomething like looking through
hashtag music and, like I justpopped up, and he just has, like
him, with his shirt off, likeall of his family just enjoying
(48:50):
it at whatever.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
He's just.
I know he's like, oh, look atmy wholesome family.
And he's like out hereterrorizing like actual randos
on the internet.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
I love these.
I was like sitting at likeOlive Garden with his family and
they're like hey, and he's likehold on, like wait wait, wait,
wait, wait.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
like I understand you have something important to
tell me.
Her wife is like I need, I wanta divorce, and he's like,
actively writing.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
He's like there's, there's this 23 year old girl
out there and she needs to knowthat.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
I'm not a fan, that, I'm not a streaming.
I'm like okay, like.
Also, when I first saw the likelong comment in the first part
said not a fan here, I was like,oh, no, like they're going to
critique the like the song.
And then it was just that and Iwas like, oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
So then was that Michael.
Speaker 3 (49:44):
I'm going to just put out there that if anybody wants
to send this guy songs thathave profanity in it just see if
he's a fan or not for aconfirmed you know message that
you send him with a song link ofa song that has profanity,
we'll send you his own Terryprojects sticker.
Speaker 1 (50:03):
Hey, hey, let's go.
What do you think of this song?
Sorry, yeah that's just.
Speaker 3 (50:09):
I don't know.
Maybe maybe he just needs tohear more songs with profanity
in it, like maybe he just needsto hear like pussy, pussy, pussy
, marijuana, and like he'll cometo and he'll realize like.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
Oh, I'm a down ass kind of dude, I feel like this
is like one of those likecloseted ass, like yeah, it's
just like.
Oh, like I find yeah, like likethe kind of person that listens
to you, know WAP, and is like I, like I secretly like, oh, my
God, those girls are amazing.
But like I need a shit on it,Like you know what I?
Speaker 2 (50:44):
mean Right.
It's also just like themisogyny element where it's like
he said something about likethis is setting about example
for young girls and I'm like I'mnot trying to set an example
for young girls.
Speaker 1 (50:56):
The fuck Like I'm literally not, that's a word
here, for it is like we'resetting examples for young girls
.
Speaker 2 (51:04):
Yeah, Then Perry project is setting examples for
young girls and Abel Asher isnot.
Yeah, why is it myresponsibility to set an example
for young girls like me?
Like no, I, I, I, it's so dumb.
Like obviously I'm not makingmusic for children.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
Like yeah, and the guy goes on Like he, just he, he
he's so, and I'm like thank youfor the engagement.
Speaker 2 (51:32):
Instagram, the Instagram algorithm, is probably
like, doesn't?
Know what's happening andthey're like yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:39):
I I got called a racist on one of my things,
which is that sounds bad, Justhold on.
Speaker 2 (51:46):
No, I don't know, I'm with.
Speaker 3 (51:49):
And we're getting canceled.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
I was like, oh shit.
So it was on like a real editon YouTube with the, the podcast
, but all I was talking aboutwas the gentrification exists
and it was this guy in front ofhis like in front of his Chevy.
He was a white dude.
He was calling me racistagainst white people.
I was like, oh, you're just anidiot.
Speaker 2 (52:14):
Oh God, I got it.
Got it Like yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:18):
That's, I was like as soon as I saw the comment
before I saw who it was, or likewhat the like, like what the
context was I was like, oh fuck,am I a terrible person?
Like am I just getting calledout now?
But like it.
But also that real jumped uplike just them of, like like
plays it had, just becausesomebody called me a racist on
it, which had for no fuckingreason, which had nothing to do
(52:38):
with anything.
I had nothing to do withanything.
I was just.
I was like gentrificationexists and it sucks and that was
like kind of my thing and yeah,we're going to just do that so
real?
Speaker 2 (52:49):
Yeah, well, he had a point.
Sounds like you're being reallyracist against white people,
right?
Speaker 1 (52:53):
now.
Yeah, man, you know we have arough hour, but okay.
So to this guy's point.
I had not listened to, not theracist guy we're.
I'm segueing back.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
The classless music guy.
Speaker 1 (53:10):
Yes, yes, yes, I did look at the lyrics and your
lyrics are.
They are.
Wait, I was, I was talking toMichael.
Oh, this is my favorite lineRock bottom of the body, pile,
shoot hot spit, crunch bone.
Is that that?
Yeah, that is a sick one, yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:33):
Thank you, charlie.
I will give Charlie credit forthat one because he definitely
like had the idea for that verse.
Well, like, basically, the ideabehind the song was we wanted
the, the verses, to be reallydense and manic and like weird
and odd, and the for the chorusto be a little more spread, and
so that's why there's a lotgoing on in the verses and then
(53:57):
the chorus is like three wordsbut yeah, no, like Charlie's an
incredible writer, we wrote thesong together but I, like he was
like I figured it out.
I figured it out Rock bottom ofthe body, pile, shoot, hot spit
, crunch bone.
And I was like you're sofucking weird for that and I
(54:22):
love it.
Like I'm obsessed, like itdoesn't rhyme, it doesn't make
sense, it's like kind of visual,but it also just like you're
like ow that like it's, likeit's like it's like it really
puts you exactly where I wantedsomeone to be used, like laying
on the tile under a bunch ofbodies, just like being crushed,
(54:45):
and like how you know?
Like like you go from from themania to the crash, like yeah,
kind of.
Speaker 1 (54:57):
Yeah, what, what, what is the story behind the
song?
Because that is not what thesong is about.
Speaker 2 (55:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
Are you how?
How much do you feel likesaying about it?
Speaker 2 (55:06):
Yeah, I'll say some, I'll say some.
So the song is actually about Ihad a, a psychotic break my
freshman year of college and Ireally really didn't know that
at the time, because anyonewho's ever been manic or
psychotic knows it's like reallyhard to to to know that you
(55:30):
think everyone else is is wrongand you're right, basically.
And so I going going with thatsort of idea and just thinking
that you are being directlygiven signs in the universe that
, like this person is meant foryou and that was what was
happening with me like freshmanyear of college.
Basically like this random guywho absolutely did not deserve
(55:55):
my time or attention, like I hadjust gotten out of a long
relationship and he was therebut incredibly, um, a bad
influence.
Let's just say that he was abad influence and because of a
lot of factors, I ended up likereally, really really falling
(56:15):
hard for this guy.
But it was like co-morbid withan intense case of mania where I
was like you know, I associatedall of these like super happy,
new energy feelings with himinstead of like, oh, I should
seek medical help, and so, likethat song is sort of from the
(56:40):
perspective of me when I was inthat space of like.
You know, I'm so sure aboutthis, I'm so positive that the
universe is sending me signs.
But he had a girlfriend likelike, who was still in high
school and across the country,and you know, yeah, it was tough
(57:01):
.
It was tough and he just likewasn't attracted to me.
It was really like, like ithurts so bad.
But ultimately I'm so gladnothing ever happened, because
whoa, he's a piece of work.
But if you ever listen to this,he's not going to be happy.
But it's fine, we don't talk toeach other anymore, so I doubt
he'll ever even see it.
But yeah, I think this song wasvery cathartic for me because I
(57:27):
had a lot of pent up ragetowards him and a lot of energy
Like this time in my life had somuch energy, but it was also so
toxic and corrosive, and so Ijust like wanted to figure out
how to wrap all of that uptogether.
Speaker 1 (57:45):
And so, yeah, yeah, Wow, yeah, no, I like it.
I mean, it's very like as Iread the lyrics.
It's very intense, yeah it isit is.
Speaker 2 (57:53):
It is an intense song .
Speaker 1 (57:54):
It's like I can't wait to go to your first play,
you know.
Speaker 2 (57:59):
I can't, I can't wait to make my Broadway debut after
becoming an international popsensation.
And everyone's like they canact and I'm like, yeah, bitch,
I'm aware of many hats.
Speaker 1 (58:13):
Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2 (58:15):
But also, like, at the end of the day, I just am
happy with like, doing art onany level at any time.
But yeah, yeah, this is I mean,this is an incredible song.
Speaker 1 (58:30):
I think it's extremely well produced, like
the video is awesome.
So, just like you know, keepdoing that.
I got two more questions.
Speaker 2 (58:40):
Yeah, hit me.
Speaker 1 (58:43):
Two.
Which one do I want to askfirst?
We'll do this one.
What do you do when you'restarting to second guess
yourself or feel like there's noreason to keep on making music?
Or if that has never occurredto you, what do you do when you
have somebody some old guy starthating on your music on the
(59:04):
internet?
What are the sort of likemechanisms that you've developed
about your ego?
Speaker 2 (59:11):
So many, because you know that I this is a daily
struggle and like all musiciansI think have that like do I even
bother?
But then I do a few things.
I will like just start playingcovers, I'll just play songs
that I know and love and I knowthat I can do well, and then I
(59:33):
feel how good it feels to dothat and how like natural that
feels and I'm like, okay, yeah,that connects me to the why.
And then also, like when myfriends or people I don't know
reach out at all about it likeeven the fact that they like
(59:54):
gave it a listen I'm like, okay,that's something that really
helps.
But I also like to go throughmy notes app and my voice memos,
because it's literally awasteland of ideas and melodies
and songs and you know lyricsthat are just lying dormant and
I'm like, okay, I literally havea full fucking archive.
(01:00:21):
Obviously I do this consciouslyor unconsciously, so I'm going
to do it anyway.
You know what I mean.
And sometimes I'll listen to anold voice memo or read an old
note and I'll be like, damn,okay, shit like wow, I didn't
realize.
(01:00:41):
I don't remember ever recordingthat or saying that, but it
actually was quite good.
So that really helps me whenI'm feeling like, oh, like
sometimes I'll even feel likejealous of my past self, like,
oh, she was so inspired and,like you know, had all this
stuff to write about, and I'mlike I can always go back to
(01:01:04):
those notes and go back to thosetimes and, you know, build on
them.
But yeah, those are some of mycoping mechanisms.
Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
Those are great.
Yeah, I think playing covers issomething that I've been kind
of more into is I'm kind of justlike re-finding my stuff,
because I was only intooriginals for a while.
But yeah, no, it's nice to hearsomebody else say that, as well
as the other stuff youmentioned.
That was probably one of thebest answers we've had for that
(01:01:36):
so far.
This is a new industry questionthat we've started asking.
Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, I really do do that andlike just playing things that
are kind of easy, like just soyou remind yourself, like this
is.
You know, this is thefundamental part of me, and when
something is simple, you canreally go crazy.
So, yeah, definitely recommend.
(01:02:04):
It also makes you feel betterabout, like where you're at
currently, because you're like,oh, this song is so easy and
then it's like probably a songthat I wouldn't have found easy
a few years ago.
So, yeah, anyways absolutelyAlright.
Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
Last question what is your idea of success?
Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
My idea of success is being able to pay rent and have
health insurance and have foodand maybe then some just being
able to make a living off of myart.
Once I can do that, I will feelfree.
There you go, love it and alsolike having like a million
(01:02:56):
monthly listeners.
Would be cool one day.
Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
Hey, you're on your way, yeah yeah.
I was in right now.
You know about to have maybe2000 soon.
Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
Oh hey, come on, I hope so.
Fingers crossed in Chalaw.
Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
Yeah, we're gonna.
Kate's released like 50something songs.
That's insane.
Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
I had no idea that is so wild.
She I mean she's been doingthis since because she moved to
New York when she was 18.
So, yeah, I, I feel like I'm,I'm, yeah.
Like I said earlier, I'm justgetting started.
There is so much more to come.
Speaker 1 (01:03:29):
Yeah, no, it's.
I feel like you have a good.
You have a good streamlinedapproach to everything that
you're doing now is is, in myhumble mean, nothing words.
I think I think you got it Likejust just keep doing what
you're doing.
Thank you so anything else youwanna say to fans or anybody
listening, or the line comes outAugust 18th.
Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
Thank you If you've gotten this far.
I love you.
Thank you, um.
Dm me and tell me if you've gotthis far, um, but I I'm just so
appreciative of you guys forhaving me on the show.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
Thank you so much for being on the show.
This was a super fun.
Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
Yeah, I had such a great time Stream, stream 555.
Do it Follow.
Follow me on Instagram atannablashr.
That's where I post all of mylike, show updates and all that
shit.
(01:04:28):
So if you want to stay in theloop, that's where you go.
Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
Yeah, I'm going to try to be your next show for
sure, whenever that is Ditto,ditto.
Um, I think we got some stuffin September which we might have
to hit you up.
Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
Um yeah, I'm, I'm around, hit my line Either way.
Speaker 1 (01:04:45):
Whenever you get back into New York, hopefully fall,
get together with like somemusician friends.
It would be really cool.
Actually, I'll have like alittle meet and hang out.
Speaker 3 (01:04:53):
Yeah Well, that was such a fun night, you know.
Speaker 2 (01:04:58):
I want to chase that high, for sure.
Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
Yeah, let's keep doing that, I think.
I think, yeah, that was such agreat show.
I mean, we even talk about, uh,you know the other people, but
you know yeah no one.
Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
Lizzie were also great.
I mean like all very different,but there's a through line,
which is we listen to a lot ofLady Gaga growing up.
Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
That was the three line.
I guess I was looking for it,but I guess they were just Lady
Gaga, uh yeah, I feel like LadyGaga is actually the three line
for reality.
Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
Yeah For, for.
For most New York musicians,most New York singers, it's like
Gaga's, Gaga's.
Uh, definitely, we worship atthe shrine but, also quick fun
story before we end.
I so my parents live in Malibuand Lady Gaga literally lives
(01:05:50):
down the street.
And one time my parents are atthe grocery store with my dog
and this woman is like your dogis so cute, and my mom looks up
and is like thank you, and it'sliterally Lady Gaga, like Miss
Mrs Germanata in the flesh, andum, that's just, that's just LA
(01:06:15):
baby.
Speaker 1 (01:06:16):
Yeah, I yeah, no, totally.
You know who's funny?
I just saw at the beach.
He was sitting right next to us.
It was Kay Lani.
No way.
And I was like I was.
I was sitting there, I was withmy friends and I was just
staring at her and I felt so Ilike felt bad doing it because
I'm like, is that is that?
And I was like on her Instagram14.8 million followers I'm like
(01:06:38):
, but that's are you?
Yeah, and I was like I justcouldn't help.
Speaker 2 (01:06:43):
Yeah, Uh yeah, no, the neck tattoos are a pretty
dead giveaway.
Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
Yeah, face tattoo.
I was like that's totally her.
Yeah, anyway, uh, yeah.
And also my friend did serveLady Gaga coffee one time and
said she was the nicest personever and my buddy was not stoked
because she came in like rightbefore they closed and then his
like coworker came up and waslike you know, that was Lady
(01:07:07):
Gaga, right Like the one youwere just an asshole to.
Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
He's like oh, I bet she appreciates when people are
assholes to her because she'slike, well, I feel like I get
the princess treatment all thetime, like it's nice to be
treated like a person for sure.
Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
I think on the coasts she's probably very well
respected.
I feel like middle America isprobably a little a little torn
up on Lady Gaga.
Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
Definitely, definitely, um, but also, like
she's, a badass.
Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
Like you know, she handles her.
Speaker 2 (01:07:36):
She's so.
She's so mother.
And also she started offcutting her teeth in New York
clubs, just like us, you know,like she and Lana too, lizzie
Grant at the time, like theywere.
There's old videos of them fromlike the aughts performing at,
you know, boiler room or thebitter end, and like yeah just
like so cool.
Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
It's like oh well, Michael, what's the, what's the
record store that you know theguy Jamal?
Speaker 3 (01:08:03):
generation.
I know that's not generationrecords, a different one.
Um, oh, my God, this is goingto kill me.
Yeah, a village, villagerevival, village revival and he
knows.
Yeah, I want already to go inthere and all that stuff right
and yeah, I think he's on afirst name basis with Dave
(01:08:24):
Chappelle, Like he calls me youknow, I think it was like so
many people Like he's, just likeI can imagine.
Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
Yeah, I would be.
I would be a very unshill umlike host or waiter in like a
shishi restaurant because Iwould not be able to like keep
my shirt together.
Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
But I mean, like I don't think that's true, I think
you well.
Speaker 2 (01:08:49):
I would be fine.
I would be fine, but there's acouple people who like me, like,
we'll just say that.
Yeah, well, I got.
Obviously.
I think, um, if I'm at HarryStyles, I'd be so gagged, like I
don't know, like it's not, I'mnot necessarily like a huge
Harry Styles fan.
I just feel like I would be so,like what, like, if I'm at
(01:09:14):
Zendaya I would feel this way,um, just like untouchable.
Speaker 1 (01:09:18):
I really I really like Harry Styles, like the more
, the more stuff I see of his.
Like there was a Howard Sternshow that he did and he was
doing some old like covers andlike I was like damn, this guy
is like really really good, oh,he's, he's fan.
Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
Hot take Harry Styles is really good.
Hot take.
Well, it is a hot take from themusician world.
Speaker 1 (01:09:38):
Like like yeah, for people like me it's not usually
like a thing that people areusually talking about, but he's
incredible.
Speaker 2 (01:09:46):
Oh, you know who.
I would flip the fuck out if Imet Fiona Apple.
Speaker 1 (01:09:51):
Oh well, it's the same.
Speaker 2 (01:09:53):
Because she just doesn't leave her house.
So like that would be a trueunicorn.
Speaker 1 (01:09:59):
She is an example of one of the singers we're talking
about at the start.
You know or it's like theydon't like being out that much-
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (01:10:06):
And she's one of my she's one of my biggest
inspirations.
It's like I'm like if FionaApple liked attention.
Speaker 1 (01:10:11):
I could totally.
There's your new Instagram bio.
Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (01:10:16):
Fiona Apple liked attention.
Fuck, I feel like I could talkto you for so much longer.
Right, I actually have to gobowling and I'm sure Michael has
stuff to do.
I'm sure you have stuff to do.
Yeah, let's all.
Let's do some shit when you getback in town, Absolutely.
Thank you so much for doingthis thing Like.
This has been super fun andlike.
Speaker 2 (01:10:34):
I can't.
Oh my God, here you go.
Say, on the show we have Annabelle Asher.
Thanks for being here.
You're a musician that I justplayed on a bill with.
I was playing with Capri Nautz.
We played Bowrie Electric andthat was the sixth show.
That was a super fun show.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
I'm nodding because it was.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yeah, you guys killed it.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Oh, thank you.
So did you, guys oh thank youso much.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
That was my first show in New York and I am, I'm
hooked.
I'm gonna go back out there anddo some more shows, for sure,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Dude, you guys really like rocked my shit Like I.
Seriously I have not stoppedthinking about that performance
because it was just so nextlevel, it was so amazing.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Well, thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
And you and you really turned it.
And I remember my partnerturned to me and was like look
at the drummer, cause you were.
You were doing your little Like.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Yeah, that's my thing .
Whenever people get pictures ofme, they're always in the air.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
We got like a picture .
Does this guy ever actuallylike hit the drums?
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Cause according to the pictures, he's just I was
not expecting to play like thateither.
Like I when I was practicing athome, I was just playing on my
little like electronic pads andI was just taking it, taking it
slow.
We only had one rehearsalbefore that and it was like I
barely knew the songs.
But, but time it came to it Iwas just like no, I'm just going
to rock the fuck out, I don'tknow, this is what I like to do.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I literally got up and under the right table and
just you know, always trying tofigure out what this thing is
all about.
This is pretty, that's right.
And so the thing complicated inthe first place that we did was
the back Housing.
I'm like player hands thatritohard.
But, yeah, I felt grieved, likeme at the start of we were
(01:48):
making a big year inilia, so,but they were about to they let
us just fire it really hardbecause it was just like, hey,
okay, so I am gonna be missingsoundcheck, but I have Nat next
to me if you want her to play.
And I was like, of course, likewhat?
And she's just such a virtuoso,like like knew everything, like
(02:13):
so quickly, like we didn't evenhave a rehearsal with her, and
it was just like, yeah, so shoutout to my band Nat, jack Clay,
david, you guys, you guys reallykilled it and thank you for
your kind words.
And yeah, like I said, I just Iwas so blown away by you guys,
(02:34):
by your whole stage presence ofthe band, but like Kate's music
is just like crazy, it's soinsane, like she really has, she
has it all together.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
She really does.
She's a.
She's really incredible.
But I mean, your whole band wassuper, super tight.
I think that's a very kindwords all around.
That was.
That was just an electric night.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
It really was.
It was an electric night.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yeah, I mean for a Sunday, great turnout too Great
turnout, yeah, oh my God.
Yeah, how do you?
How would you describe you likeyour music in general?
Because, when?
Because I hadn't really heardyou other than five, five, five,
your single, which one we'regoing to talk about?
How?
Because you kind of have like ajazz thing going on, you kind
of have electric thing going on.
What are your influences?
What do you, what, whatinspires you?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Yeah, great question.
And when I was expecting exceptone I will never be prepared
for.
I feel like every artist likefreaks out when someone asks
like, so what style do you do?
Unless they're like hard prog,rock, like, it's always like
either something ridiculouslyspecific or it's just a mishmash
of a million things.
And I'm the latter.
I feel like I take inspirationfrom mainly synth and electro
(03:48):
pop and garage jazz, r&b,classic soul, but also like
trance music and like justelectronic music, like you know,
computer music, pc music, thecomputer as an instrument, that
(04:08):
kind of vibe.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Five, five, five is definitely more of a garage
inspired track.
We were definitely like lookingat, you know Russian garage
house bands like Molkat, domaand then like iDress, just sort
of like lo-fi.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
But what did you just call that Russian?
What?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Russian, russian garage, I guess.
Okay, fuck yeah, I feel likethe Russian wave is coming Like,
like it really is like.
I don't know if you heard rushby choice of on, but I was gonna
, I was gonna say Putin agrees.
It feels very, you know butyeah, that's awesome, yeah, and
then, yeah, I feel like in termsof like actual artists, like my
(04:56):
biggest influences are.
They're all over the place, butlike a few highlights would be
like LCD sound system Jill Scott, tori Mois, Rihanna, aliyah Mac
Miller, nine Inch Nails,charlie Kendrick, gaga.
(05:17):
You know the all the classics.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Justin Timberlake.
That was an extremely wide.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
I know it's crazy, I'm just looking through my like
my playlist of artists andsongs that I think like parlay
into my sound and I'm like, yeah, it's so all over the place.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Do you have a Spotify playlist of that shit?
Speaker 2 (05:37):
It's, yeah, it's called Album Mask and I will.
I'll send it to you guys, butAll right, Aliyah yeah.
And then, yeah, there's some,there's some Pixies on here,
some MGMT, some Azalea Banks.
My body is a cage arcade fire.
You know, I like, I like thedrama, I like dark, I love dark
(06:01):
pop and like the sort of.
That's why I like I'm obsessedwith Kate is because I feel like
she really does a great job ofcreating that, that world.
And so, basically, like mystyle is whatever the fuck I
feel like making, and then belowthat it's probably just like
(06:23):
like alternative.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Like lo-fi alternative, let's just say that
.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
I, how did you?
Okay, I have so many questions,I guess.
First is how did you and Katemeet or just get acquainted?
I don't even know.
Kate doesn't even know thatwe're doing this interview.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
I know we're just gassing her and like she has no
idea, it's so funny I'm being afriend behind her back.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
I am not, I'm just not.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yeah, we're talking, yeah we're talking mad shit
about Kate.
No, I, we literally met throughthat bill and I like I'll be
totally honest, sometimes thegig finesse bills are not 100%
awesome front to back.
You know, love to my, love tomy indie musicians, but
(07:12):
sometimes it's just like like itdoesn't mesh or there's just
not a chemistry between theartists.
But this one we really mesh,like all of us.
We really me, noah, lizzie andKate like we all had a group
chat beforehand and just likegot to know each other a bit,
and so I was just kind of likestalking Kate social media and
(07:33):
Spotify and stuff and I was justlike holy shit, like wow, this
is very inspired and inspiring.
And, yeah, kind of lit a fireunder my ass.
Honestly, I was like fuck, likeI, I can and should be really
(07:54):
doing this.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Yeah, did you, because you released 5.55 right
before that show, right.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
I released it June 9th, so a little like like
exactly a month before actually.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
That was close.
What I mean.
What was, what was the timingfor that Like, yeah, I mean so.
How did how did this even comeabout?
Because you, you know how tosing like where?
Where did you learn how to singLike?
What's your whole musicbackground?
Where are you from?
You're in LA.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Yeah, yeah, I'm in LA right now.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
I'm at my parents house.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
That where you're from yes, I'm from LA, I'm a
Valley girl.
I'm from Woodland Hills, ifyou're at all familiar, it's
like oh yeah, it's like, yeah,it's right next to Calabasas.
So I grew up, you know, inKardashian County, but, you know
, adjacent, definitely not likein the thick of it, I just like
went to school out there andhave a lot of friends out there,
(08:47):
etc.
So you know, I did a lot ofmusical theater growing up, did
a lot of, you know.
I did vocal lessons from likewhen I was like eight, just
because my parents were supersupportive and they saw that I
had a passion and talent andthey wanted to nurture that.
So I'm forever appreciative forthat foundation I have been.
(09:10):
I self taught myself guitarwhen I was like 12.
And I've always been like,proficient at guitar.
It's not my main instrument,but I love playing guitar.
I've definitely been working atit and trying to get better,
because it is as a solo act,like oftentimes it's just me and
(09:32):
me and my guitar.
So, yeah, and then, yeah,musical theater was my biggest
sort of training in terms of howto sing and how to perform and
that's where I learned likevocal support and how to
harmonize and like how to conveyemotion through a song, and I
(09:56):
really carry that with me in mymusic, even though I'm not doing
musical theater.
Obviously it's just the like.
Being able to command the stageand tell a story through a song
definitely came from my musicaltheater studies.
And then I also did dance and Ijust have always been.
(10:18):
You know, I feel like I reallystarted to become like a music
head in middle school, likethat's when I started to be like
pretentious about it.
You know, I was like you guyshave never heard of Frank Ocean.
Wow, it was like I was, I was, Iwas that kid but yeah, I think
the mix of that and then justlike singing to the radio every
day of my life forever, likebeing in the car, and especially
(10:42):
in the era of pop music that Igrew up in, it was very vocal,
heavy, like I'm thinking of likechandelier and like all of Lady
Gaga's discography and likeHalo and just these really
vocally demanding songs that Iwanted to sing along to to the
much to the chagrin of everybodyelse in the car.
(11:03):
But yeah, it was definitelylike.
The radio definitely raised meand I think that has a huge
impact on my sound today, bothlike the serious elements of it,
but also like the unserious,like kitsch elements of it.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Yeah, you talked about at this show that you
would like listen to the radiofor hours and hours and you
played a.
Are you Gonna Be my Girl?
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Hell yeah, I did.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
So I guess you mentioned some of those other
songs.
But so you said your parentswere super supportive and your
mom was at the show.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yeah, that was amazing.
She flew out from LA just forthe show.
What a queen.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Wow yeah, and I'm sure she had a great time she
did that was super cool.
So when was like your firsttime actually like playing live
or playing or, I guess, being insort of a setting of?
I mean, I guess he did theater,but what about just like more
of just like a music setting?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Yeah, just like my solo stuff.
So in college I went toWesleyan, I did acapella.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Where is that?
Speaker 2 (12:10):
It's in Middletown, connecticut, it's a liberal art
school.
It's like it's very, you know,artsy but also intellectual.
So like I felt like I was verywell suited.
You know it was.
It was it was touch and go,because it was like the pandemic
hit like right in the middle.
So but I digress, I didn't haveas much performing experience
(12:32):
in college as I obviously wantedto, because half of it was
online.
But when I was there I didacapella.
My group was called Quasimodoand just like group singing
really resonated with me.
And then just I think I thinkit took a little while for me to
(12:56):
build up the confidence to belike I can be this, I can do
this and I can do it on my own.
And so my first performance, asyou know, as me, as as Annabelle
Asher, as a solo act, was atWesleyan it was.
It was really like chaotic.
It's because it's such a, youknow, because everybody there is
(13:18):
so neurotic and involved,there's always shit going on
like every hour, every day, likethere's always at least three
things that you need to be atand you can't be at all of them.
So I had a show on a Sunday atlike 530 in Music Hallis, which
is like way off campus and someof my friends came, but it was
(13:40):
not a very well attended showand it wasn't like a the kind of
show that I envisioned myselfdoing at all, because I, you
know, with my style of music, I,I, I envision, you know, like a
dark, dank room and like justthat sense of like intimacy.
But I think that first showreally like made it obvious that
(14:03):
you can't control thecircumstances when you're
performing and you just kind ofhave to like do your thing and
whatever the audience does istheir business.
I feel like audience engagementis a big part of my act because
I also did improv, so I'm likepretty well versed in audience
interaction and it doesn't likeI have to do a lot of self talk
(14:27):
when you know I have an audience.
Like like that day I had to doa lot of self talk, like this
doesn't reflect on me as anartist or person and the people
who are here are really here andthat's what matters.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Hey, whoa, what do you mean by that part?
Speaker 2 (14:42):
Like like there were maybe 15 people there, but all
of them were really present andlike watching me and we're like
giving me energy, you know, andthat was that was really nice to
to have, even though it wasn'tnecessarily like a full packed
room.
I was like, oh, you guys arebeing nice to me and I was like,
(15:06):
okay, yeah, like I can, I cando this even if there's nobody
at my gig.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, they, there was , there was.
Well, I guess if you're talkingabout specifically, there's
more people, not batteryelectric gig, but oh, yeah, way
more people.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
I just mean like that was my very first show and then
, like after the fact, most ofmy shows have been pretty well
populated.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
Okay, funny story about this is I've been playing
drums forever and I have beenbanned since I was like 12.
And he has.
She asked me questions becauseI've just played more shows in
her and she's like, oh, what ifthere's not that many people
there?
It's like I've been.
I've played so many shows whereI was like there was more
people in the band and therewere in the room.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Right.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
And then you just like, can't you just?
And she's like I don't want todo that.
I'm like, yeah, nobody does.
But it's also like kind of funand it's almost like a right of
passage to say you've done theselike yes, like gigs.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Right, and then for the people who are at those gigs
, you know, down the line, it'sa badge of honor for them to be
like.
Yeah, I saw this person like,and there are four people there
and it they still turned it.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
That's a sign of a true performer, like someone who
you know can, can keep itpushing, despite if the audience
is not giving you what you want.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Exactly, yeah.
And and like I did a tour witha band they're called Hot Crazy.
They were just starting up butI knew they were going to be big
.
And they went on tour with myband and we just like there was
barely anybody at these showsbut they they could have been
playing a stadium like with justtheir energy.
They didn't go fuck who was outthere, like they were out there
(16:50):
to have fun themselves and thatwas like a big turning point
for me.
I was like every time I get toplay drums, you know it's like a
die tomorrow, you know, mightas well just do it, yeah exactly
, exactly.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
It's such a privilege to like be able to do it and to
be doing it on the level where,like, people will pay to see it
.
You know, it's not just like ahobby thing, you know, but but
yeah, that was that's sort of my, my, my show background, my my
history on the stage.
How old are you?
I'm 23.
(17:22):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
You're 20.
You're the same age as Kate.
Yes, my plan out here.
We're getting old, we're almostfreaking 30.
Whoa, yeah, well, anyway.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Grab the grab the walkers.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Grab the walkers.
Yeah, bust it out.
This is not a walking friendlycity.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
It is not.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah, yeah, but where the fuck was I going with that?
I'm 23.
What's your plan?
Like, what do you like?
What do you want to do?
Like I mean, you'd say, you'rejust starting to release music
as your own name.
What's what's the?
Speaker 2 (17:58):
what's the plan?
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
World domination total indoctrination.
Ultimately, I would love to bea world dictator.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
No, I'm kidding.
What are you on that?
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Can you?
Can you expound on that?
No, Actually, I just want toreach the people who I need to
reach.
But that's a very, you know,abstract, broad goal.
But in terms of like next steps, I would love.
So I have another song comingout August 18th called the line
yeah.
So first, first look firstannouncement is on this podcast
(18:32):
and grass yeah.
So I have another single comingout and then I'm working on my
EP right now, which I would loveto tour.
So that's sort of the next POAfor me is like recording the
songs that I already have andlike getting them, you know,
(18:56):
getting them tight and ready forstreaming and then hopefully
building up enough of anaudience that I can do a small
tour, and that would be amazing.
But in the long term, I wouldlove to be doing all kinds of
stuff.
Like I am definitely aninterdisciplinary artist, I'm a
(19:17):
writer and a singer, obviously,but I would love to be acting
and doing fashion and, you know,just being part of, like the
creative Culture and also justthe pop culture, because I love
pop culture.
It's like so delicious for me,I always have, and so being part
of the conversation would beamazing and like I just would
(19:43):
love to have.
I would love to just be able tomake a living doing this, like.
Ultimately, that is that is mylike base goal.
But if we're shooting for themoon, like, I would love to play
the Hollywood ball one day, youknow.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yeah, that was unabashedly.
That was I love when people arehonest.
Yeah, I love pop culture.
I just want to be part of theconversation.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
That's like.
Who doesn't like?
Speaker 1 (20:07):
I literally a lot of people I mean that's true,
that's true.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
I mean, I guess, when I think of like who does it,
I'm like what lead singerdoesn't want to be like showered
with attention?
Speaker 1 (20:19):
That's true, that's true, I don't yeah there's a
there's very few singers I'velike met that are not kind of
ego heads, which that's like myfavorite thing.
I love that like the drummersinger dynamic is always like a
fun one.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
It's hilarious because the drummers have no ego
like y'all.
Y'all had ego death from anacid trip four years ago and
it's like and we're just rockingand like we're like so in our
heads about like you know whateverything means and whatever
it's I think that's generallywhy drummers and singers tend to
like hang out most in the band,or at least when I've like just
(20:54):
seen people on tour or whateverlike that.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
It's like it's like the total opposites, like I get
you, you get me, and like we'renothing alike, though.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Right, we're so entertained by the others thing.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yeah, we can protect each other from our emotions.
We don't want to likeexperience.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Right, right.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Yeah, but in general though, like but you know, there
are all, like the exceptionsthat rule.
There's some singers.
Of course, of course, and theyhate singing live, but they're
so fucking good.
People are like, yeah, do it,though I want to yeah.
Well, Frank like.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Frank Ocean, for example.
I mean, that whole Coachellathing was so whack, but I saw
him live in 2017 at FYF in LAand it was literally his last
live performance Since thatCoachella thing.
So I I saw in real time likesomeone who is such a star and
(21:47):
who is so relevant, but whohates being in the public eye
and like literally activelyavoids playing shows, and I'm
like music really comes in allshapes and sizes and just
because you sing doesn't meanyou want to be the center of
attention, or just because youdon't sing doesn't mean you
(22:08):
don't want to be the center ofattention.
You know, I feel like like Idon't know.
I think about band members whoare just, who just always play
for other artists, and I'm likeI wonder, I wonder if that is
enough or if there is sort oflike an urge to do your own
(22:31):
thing.
But I don't know, I guessthat's a question for you.
Now it's my podcast.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Yeah, I mean, I think I'm a pretty show off e-drummer
.
I just can't help it.
I do, like you know, it's fun.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
You gotta, you gotta.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Yeah, I mean because I don't know you can be such a
boring drummer and I don't knowlike playing in the pockets like
great and stuff like that.
But I mean I don't know ifyou're kind of come to a show.
I want to give people a reasonto actually like, come to a show
.
What is, what is?
What was your whole likethought on Frank Goshenstein?
Because he what?
What happened to Coachella?
He like didn't play a full setor he was just over it, or what
(23:08):
was the whole?
Speaker 2 (23:09):
Basically, first of all, he had this huge set that
he was supposed to, not not likeset as in music set, but like a
physical set.
It was, there was an ice rinkand there were going to be ice
skaters that were like likelooping around him as he sang
and then, like an hour beforethe show, he's like actually I
(23:29):
don't want that, and so they hadto like completely reorganize
the stage set up and then itjust ended up being him Like you
couldn't even see him.
There was literally a group ofpeople like walking around him
in a circle the entire show.
You couldn't see his face, youcould barely hear him.
He wasn't singing, he was justlike playing tracks, basically,
(23:49):
and people you know, people whohad waited for years and years
and years to see him performwere all devastated because they
were like what, like that's it.
And then he cut the show earlyand I think he went past Curfew
and like started late as well.
So just like a prettydisrespectful to the fans, like,
(24:12):
especially because it wasCoachella and that shit is so
expensive, like so many peopleprobably, like minimum, spent
$1,000 just to be there, and itjust shows a level of detachment
from that being in that placeas an artist where, like you
understand what it's like to,you know to be on either side,
(24:37):
like you want to see a greatshow but you also want to give
it.
Give a great show because youshould feel and you should feel
entitled, like your fans areentitled to that and you should
feel like you owe them that.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Yeah.
Yeah, it's a rough.
It's a rough spot to be inbecause you know I don't know
what you do for work.
But like you know, I end upworking service industry stuff
when I'm not doing music stuff.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Right.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
And you're just like some days, you just don't want
to fucking deal with people.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yeah, I mean.
So Michael just saw a littleNas X at what Governor's ball
Was that right?
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Oh, really Like a real horse.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
And was like I'm sorry, guys, I don't want to be
here right now, and thenabsolutely crushed it, but it
was so.
Yeah, sometimes like peoplejust have like a bad day and it
shows.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Yeah, yeah, it honestly like could, could have
been that deep.
It could have been not thatdeep, it could have just been
like I have a stomach ache, orit could have been.
I also know that Frank had ahad a little brother who passed
away and he he mentionedsomething like I used to go to
Coachella with my little brotherand so this is like really
(25:57):
meaningful for me.
So I'm sure that was a factor.
But ultimately, like I'm not myI'm not in the business to like
pathologize artists behavior,because artists are insane.
They're just like they're justsimply unpredictable and hard to
hard to read and also like kindof think they're exempt from
the rules of basic ethics andmorals and human decency, so
(26:24):
like.
But then, on the other hand,like that's kind of fun, like
how depraved everyone is makesfor, makes for good stories and
good music.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
Exactly, and I think, yeah, that's, that's the whole
point and it's such a it's sucha hard hump to get over to
actually get to the point whereyou're playing shows and people
actually expect stuff of you andyou're making enough money to
get to do these things.
Exactly.
I think that's when peoplealways like feel this weird
thing.
It's like, yeah, I would loveto have that problem where I
like wake up all hungover inEurope and I'm like I gotta go
(26:55):
play a show.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
I have to play primavera sound right now, like
after being on a yacht all day.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Yeah, I'm tired, Like it just.
It's just such an unrealisticthing.
But you know, but in order toactually be that successful as a
musician, you have to work yourass off all the time.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Literally like, and that's kind of where I'm at.
I mean, I don't really need tobe like yachting in Capri, as
Beyonce would say.
Like I, I would love to be likebe able to like finance my
basic needs with music and Iknow that that's not going to
come through streaming and solike finding other avenues to to
(27:40):
make money while still beinginvolved in music or like vocal
production in some way.
So like right now I'm trying toget into more freelance stuff
doing, you know, like, likemusic content, like like that's
what Kate does, she, you got totalk to her about that.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Yeah, definitely she has a lot of like writing stuff,
and she can go to school forthat either.
Yeah weird stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Exactly I want to.
I want to be doing those weirdlike odd articles and, like you
know, making royalty free musicfor like a TikTok commercial or
something like that.
I think at this point in mylife is like I'm not above that
at all, and I think for a whileI don't know I think when I was
in college I was so isolated anddidn't have to actually like
(28:32):
encounter the real world that Ijust had a really idealized
vision of like my, my come up orwhatever.
And I don't think it's likethat for anyone Like they're.
Even even my friends, who aresigned and successful and you
know, by all means, should belike over the moon have to have
(28:54):
to work literally all the timebecause they're under the
jurisdiction of other people now, and so I don't know.
I always remember, like this isyou're doing this because it
brings you the most joy, likethis is what you're doing with
your life because it brings youthe most joy.
So like don't, don't let thatjoy be sucked away from it Just
(29:20):
through, like the frustration ofwanting to make something good
or something people will listento, you know, or like, or just
being making it, doing it in apure commercial sense, can
really be soul sucking.
So, just like I don't know, Ifeel like I like I need to
remain.
I don't know I need to not beas jaded and I just let the.
(29:43):
By the way I do, that is justlistening to me new music and
old music and going to shows andfeeling like hopeful, like okay
.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Do you feel like you're just getting started like
with, with kind of stuff you'redoing, like when did you start
releasing music?
And I wish you could starttalking about 555.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Yeah, there's a lot to do.
Yeah, I'm a chatty.
I'm a chatty chatty cat.
I feel like I could talk to youfor quite a while.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
Oh yeah, we should all hang out with you.
I feel like we should get thatwhole fucking group that.
Let's do it together at somepoint, like bowling.
I'm going bowling right afterthis.
Actually, no way.
I had a fucking great day.
I went to the beach.
It was nice as they've had inNew York.
I just hang out with you andMichael and I'm going bowling
seeing a show tonight.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Wow, wow, that's amazing.
I'm going to a midnight showBarbie tonight, so I'm also very
excited.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
That's tomorrow.
I mean, that's like, oh my God,that we're upon the open.
Open, barbie, what are theycalled?
Speaker 2 (30:48):
It's barb and hyper time and I'm seeing up and I'm
around Saturday, so and then I'mgoing to a show on whatever
Okay, off topic, 555.
So 555 is my debut single.
That is my first song I've everdropped and it was.
We recorded it about a year agoto the date that it was dropped
(31:08):
.
So it was.
It took a long time because myfriends and collaborators are
amazing and incredibly talented,which means they are very busy
all the time.
So, like in the interest ofwanting to keep it in the family
(31:33):
, I was like, okay, I wouldrather just have this be the
best that I can make it and dropit on my own time.
Then just like rush it.
And that's what I did, and I'mglad that I did, because it
really is like exactly how Iwanted it to be.
I mean, now I can't listen toit because it makes me crazy,
but like when I, when I couldstill listen to it, I was like
(31:59):
this is amazing.
Yeah, thank you.
Charlie Kilgore is the producerand he's in the band.
Michelle, if you know them,they're like a like a neo R&B,
soul slash pop group from NewYork and they're they're quite a
(32:21):
.
They're playing Lala, which ispretty fucking sick, yeah.
So they're like they'redefinitely on the up, up and up.
And then my friend, finn FinnBennett, mixed it and he totally
brought the song to the nextlevel.
It just really like he hereally should have a producer
credit because it totallymorphed the song, his mix, and
(32:45):
just because he put it through abunch of old tape machines and
like really saturated the vocaland like made it sound the way
it's supposed to sound.
Speaker 1 (32:54):
That's.
That's the thing about it'slike you have it's like kind of
like a pro pop kind of indievibe to, but your vocals and I
think it's probably one of thefair things about your show is
that it's like this like deep,brooding, like jazz voice that
you have.
Yeah like the saturation andhow everything sounds with.
It is like yeah, that soundsgreat, the vocals are like
(33:18):
perfect for and it's not.
There's nothing quite like it.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
So well that that means so much to me.
Thank you, yeah, I try to.
I try to use my instrument tothe best of my ability.
Where I'm like, okay, I don'thave, you know, like a whispery
Billie Eilish, princess voice,I'm not going to make whispery
music because that is not whatmy instrument is built for.
(33:45):
And so, like I, you know,trying to figure out how to
synthesize, like the productionstyle that I like, which is a
little brutal, like a little, alittle bit yeah.
But then I, you know, I havethis like smooth, sort of like
(34:08):
smooth jazz voice that I can tapinto, which I think is a fun
little contrast.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
You know, what you should do for side work is you
should just, like you know, justread audio books, like,
especially like that's literallywhat I'm trying to do, bro.
Let's, let's fucking do it.
We're setting up a studio here.
We'll put you up.
I've done audio recording.
Yeah, we got it.
We'll stuff to put you to sleep.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Exactly, it's that's.
That's kind of the hustle I'mtrying to get into right now is
just like doing kind ofvoiceover, like filler work.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Yeah, I'm just do it.
Yeah, you got it.
I send my buddy Jake, I sendhim all the voiceover over like
voice acting gigs that I can.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
But yeah, there's, there's a billion out there,
yeah exactly, it's, it's, it's,it's out there, the truth is out
there.
Speaker 1 (34:58):
So yeah, the production.
So what was like your idea withthe song and how?
So you had a producer, you hadsomebody mixing it, you had what
.
At some point you were like Iwant to release a song, I want
to release this song.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
Right.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
Like what was the, what was the grand idea?
It was like what's crazy islike.
So I'm looking right now youhave 8757 listens.
You're kind of like that andthis is like you just putting
something out there that'sreally good for like a first
release.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Yeah, thank you.
I'm really happy with that aswell.
Like for pretty much noprofessional promo.
Like I paid for like a coupleInstagram ads, but like in
general, that's organic andthat's amazing to me that that a
that people are finding thissong somehow, and be that
(35:47):
they're listening to it multipletimes, like I have my you know,
spotify for artists analyticsand like the average listener
listens to it at least twice andthat's crazy.
I'm like like you came back formore.
That's insane.
So I think so in terms of likedeciding that this was the one
that I wanted to drop is mydebut single.
(36:09):
So the line which is coming outin about a month, was the other
option and they're pretty.
They're very different.
The line is is a lot more jazzyand a lot more ethereal, I
guess, whereas 555 is quiteoblique and intense and I kind
(36:32):
of just wanted to knock down thedoor.
I was just like I want to makean entrance and I don't want it
to go unnoticed and it's reallyhard not to.
It's a very commanding sort ofsong like, especially the that
like baseline and those drums.
They're just so propulsive andI was like, yeah, I really want
(36:55):
this to be like I just it reallysays like I'm here and I'm here
and I really just don't.
I DGAF what I do, I do, I do GF, which is the secret, but in
(37:15):
terms of the like you know, Iwant to anybody no thank you.
Thank you.
Just anyone who listens to thispodcast will know, but anyone
else?
Speaker 1 (37:24):
They'll just be your mom, basically.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, so you recordedthis song like what you said a
year ago, right, so what?
was but you had.
I mean, yeah, you said it'sorganic how people found the
song, but in general, what waslike your?
If you had to like kind of lookback and be like this is all
the promotion I did leading upto the release.
(37:49):
What do you think went well,what do you think didn't?
What did you do to actually getto that point where you
actually had some peoplelistening to it, I mean like the
song?
You worked really hard on thesong and it's that shows and
people are re listening to it,so clearly it sounds good.
But what was the?
What was your marketing, ifanything?
Speaker 2 (38:06):
marketing tactics.
So, another mascot moment.
I hate, hey, doing social mediapromo makes me feel like like a
zebra at the circus doing balltricks and I'm like this is not
my nature.
I'm not the kind of person topost a video on TikTok every day
(38:26):
, like it just doesn't comenaturally to me.
So I really had to get overthat like feeling of, oh, it's
so annoying Everybody thinksit's annoying and just be like
whatever it's.
Everybody knows it's what youhave to do, so just do it,
because the goal right is tolike have the algorithm catch
(38:48):
you and hopefully put you onsomeone's radar that hasn't seen
you before.
That's my current like goal.
And so, for promo, I I knew Ineeded visuals and I knew I
needed a video.
And so my friend Megan Marshallshout out, she is one of the
(39:09):
best artists, photographers inNew York.
She's amazing.
We did a photo shoot which Iended up using one of those
pictures on the cover and then Iuse those pictures as like
initial promo.
And then I was like this isn'tsuper informative, like I think
(39:29):
that I could have probably donesome more teasers, like video
teasers, and that might have,that might have played better.
But I was just like I didn'treally have it yet and I just
didn't.
I don't know.
I was just like, okay, justfucking post something like
don't wait around.
And then my friend, iris IrisOlympia, filmed me running
(39:49):
around their roof and like thatended up being, you know, the
music video and the visuals.
And then my friend, liza LizaGross edited it and did an
amazing job and so ever sinceI've had that footage it's been
a lot easier to promote, Becauseit just seems like short video
(40:11):
content is the most engaging topeople nowadays.
So, like I said, it's hard forme to feel like I am doing that
earnestly and so I really try tonot use like a fake social
(40:33):
media voice.
Speaker 3 (40:34):
I just try to.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
I try to like be my actually myself and like I don't
, I hate, just it's.
I think it's just inherentlyhumiliating to be like
advertising yourself on socialmedia.
In general.
Doesn't matter if you're amusician or just a person.
Speaker 3 (40:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
So once I accepted that, I was like whatever you
know what I?
I'm at a point now where I'mwilling to debase and humiliate
myself for the sake of my music,but I don't think I need to do
it.
I'm just saying like I think alot of artists think they have
to be like in the car with theirex and they're like.
(41:15):
So remember how I told you Iwas never going to write a song
about you?
Well, I did, and here it is,and it's like oh, is this what
it is now?
Like, do we really have to bedoing all this?
Like, yeah, so so there wasalways that side of me that like
you know, the side of me thatfelt like I was at the circus.
(41:37):
But and then, in terms of like,I really was just tick tock and
Instagram, like I didn't haveany other avenues to to use.
Like I don't can't take out abillboard or a radio ad or a
wheat pasting, I'm just likethere's no reason.
There's no reason to it's likeso extra and what is what is
like?
Speaker 1 (41:58):
what is something that you do differently, maybe
for tick tock or Instagram, likeyou personally or do you just
post the just the same stuff onboth?
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Um, I tick tocks a little more, like I would say,
with TikTok.
I like I'll record a video ofmyself in like three times speed
, like, like, listen to my song,like just just being dumb, and
then on Instagram I feel likeit's a little more professional,
(42:27):
a little more editorial, alittle more like high brow not
to say it is always that, but Ijust feel like comedy plays
better on TikTok than onInstagram, and so finding a way
for people to see that I don'ttake myself that seriously, but
I also, like I'm still trying toget myself out there, like
(42:47):
trying to strike that balance, Ithink, is is what the biggest
difference.
And also Instagram, likeInstagram is it's a thirst trap.
Like let's be so real, like,like I definitely have to to
look and act a certain way,present a certain aesthetic.
Yeah, like, like.
(43:08):
I feel like maybe it's justmisogyny or maybe it's just
being like a singer, but theyour look, I think, is important
and your, your, your visuals,whatever, like your look and
visuals are what sets you apart.
Because there's a lot of amazingsingers out there you know,
it's like there's so many, butnot all of them have the eye
(43:33):
catching visuals or the sense ofstyle or the direction, like
the creative, artistic direction, aesthetic direction to make it
really stand out.
And for me, that was likethat's something I've been
thinking about ever since Idecided that I wanted to pursue
this, because I'm somebody who'sreally invested in, you know,
(43:54):
aesthetics and it's just like,like some of some of the best
albums ever have such iconic artthat also like bleeds into the
aesthetic of the band and like,like I don't know thinking of
like Radiohead and Nirvana rightnow, like how, like I don't
(44:15):
know, they match their vibe withtheir visuals and like, for me
I'm somewhere between like anevil succubus and like I know
the way I actually the way Iwould describe me for someone is
(44:36):
like if a lounge singer andlike a brat punk, like had a
baby and so like I use a lot oflike red and purple and just
like I try to keep thingsminimalistic but striking.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Yeah, I would completely agree with that.
It's definitely like when Iwent think of you.
It's like, it's like like a,just a lounge singer, but also
with just this like airy,ethereal, like fast, energetic
electronic thing going on aswell at the same time.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
And that's pretty.
Yeah, no, it's incredible.
I was really, really diggingyour guys' set.
So, yeah, the, the, the, the.
I love how you're thinkingabout it too.
It's like it's.
It's really good for otherpeople to like hear and listen
to other people and how theydevelop their, their themselves,
and yeah, I'm gonna put online.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Yeah, I think that's honestly like I don't know.
There's so many bands in NewYork too, like I think something
that Michelle has done reallywell is is figure out their
aesthetic and not like liketheir stage aesthetic and what
sets them apart.
And so I took a page out oftheir book, for sure, and I was
just like okay, commit tosomething simple that you can
(46:01):
build on.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
Yeah, yeah, and there's.
There's no reason why you haveto like settle down or anything
on it too.
It's just like just do what youlike.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Right, exactly, do shit that you like.
At the end of the day, like doshit that you like and.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Michael and I are fucking terrible with social
media.
We get some amazing people onthe show, we have awesome
episodes of people and we have abunch of like clipped up
episodes of every single likeshow that we've done.
I just don't like posting them.
It feels horrible.
Speaker 2 (46:30):
It feels weird.
Speaker 1 (46:32):
It feels like, it's like I have very intimate
conversations with people, butlike I don't.
Like I don't want.
Like yeah, listen to it if youwant.
I don't want to put that likeonline.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
Like yeah, there's something about right, there's
something about diluting it andforcing it upon other people
that just feels like it kind ofbastardizes it, but also like if
it's getting people to listento the full thing, then like
whatever.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
Every single time we posted like that, we get a bunch
more downloads for stuff andwe're like, well, that was.
That makes sense.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
That helped.
God damn it yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
Okay, so we just a little.
Do you have a few more minutes?
Speaker 2 (47:09):
Yeah, all right, cool .
Speaker 1 (47:13):
Well, so part of what we do for this show is we have
to Instagram stalk everybody.
That we, we, you know, but thiswas hilarious.
This is right at the top ofyour Instagram.
This guy commented.
Speaker 2 (47:29):
Oh, I know exactly what you're going to say.
No, read it.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
And I was like I was on the train coming back from
the beach.
I was like, oh, shit.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
Can you read it for the?
For the yes.
Speaker 1 (47:39):
So it was on the video for 555.
And okay, so this guy, not afan here, just gave 555 a listen
and I really don't likeprofanity.
I don't understand why somesongwriters feel the need to use
vulgar, disrespectful,offensive language in a song.
All created words blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
(48:00):
blah, blah, classless music.
In my opinion, so many good andgreat songwriters over the
years have never used profanity.
Sorry, I'm just not going tofollow you and support your
music.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
I was like okay, bro, I don't give a fuck.
Like, why are you taking thetime out of your life to fucking
write this long ass comment?
First of all, I literally saytwo curse words in the whole
song.
So you're, you can't, you'rescared of bad words, okay.
Speaker 1 (48:26):
I thought I was cracking up, I thought it was so
funny, like well, then I waslooking into the guy and he's
like he's like a grandfather.
I'm just like.
I'm like how did he find hemust have been like through an
ad or something like that?
Like, like through a hashtag orsomething like looking through
hashtag music and, like I justpopped up, and he just has, like
him, with his shirt off, likeall of his family just enjoying
(48:50):
it at whatever.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
He's just.
I know he's like, oh, look atmy wholesome family.
And he's like out hereterrorizing like actual randos
on the internet.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
I love these.
I was like sitting at likeOlive Garden with his family and
they're like hey, and he's likehold on, like wait wait, wait,
wait, wait.
Speaker 2 (49:10):
like I understand you have something important to
tell me.
Her wife is like I need, I wanta divorce, and he's like,
actively writing.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
He's like there's, there's this 23 year old girl
out there and she needs to knowthat.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
I'm not a fan, that, I'm not a streaming.
I'm like okay, like.
Also, when I first saw the likelong comment in the first part
said not a fan here, I was like,oh, no, like they're going to
critique the like the song.
And then it was just that and Iwas like, oh, okay.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
So then was that Michael.
Speaker 3 (49:44):
I'm going to just put out there that if anybody wants
to send this guy songs thathave profanity in it just see if
he's a fan or not for aconfirmed you know message that
you send him with a song link ofa song that has profanity,
we'll send you his own Terryprojects sticker.
Speaker 1 (50:03):
Hey, hey, let's go.
What do you think of this song?
Sorry, yeah that's just.
Speaker 3 (50:09):
I don't know.
Maybe maybe he just needs tohear more songs with profanity
in it, like maybe he just needsto hear like pussy, pussy, pussy
, marijuana, and like he'll cometo and he'll realize like.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
Oh, I'm a down ass kind of dude, I feel like this
is like one of those likecloseted ass, like yeah, it's
just like.
Oh, like I find yeah, like likethe kind of person that listens
to you, know WAP, and is like I, like I secretly like, oh, my
God, those girls are amazing.
But like I need a shit on it,Like you know what I?
Speaker 2 (50:44):
mean Right.
It's also just like themisogyny element where it's like
he said something about likethis is setting about example
for young girls and I'm like I'mnot trying to set an example
for young girls.
Speaker 1 (50:56):
The fuck Like I'm literally not, that's a word
here, for it is like we'resetting examples for young girls
.
Speaker 2 (51:04):
Yeah, Then Perry project is setting examples for
young girls and Abel Asher isnot.
Yeah, why is it myresponsibility to set an example
for young girls like me?
Like no, I, I, I, it's so dumb.
Like obviously I'm not makingmusic for children.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
Like yeah, and the guy goes on Like he, just he, he
he's so, and I'm like thank youfor the engagement.
Speaker 2 (51:32):
Instagram, the Instagram algorithm, is probably
like, doesn't?
Know what's happening andthey're like yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:39):
I I got called a racist on one of my things,
which is that sounds bad, Justhold on.
Speaker 2 (51:46):
No, I don't know, I'm with.
Speaker 3 (51:49):
And we're getting canceled.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
I was like, oh shit.
So it was on like a real editon YouTube with the, the podcast
, but all I was talking aboutwas the gentrification exists
and it was this guy in front ofhis like in front of his Chevy.
He was a white dude.
He was calling me racistagainst white people.
I was like, oh, you're just anidiot.
Speaker 2 (52:14):
Oh God, I got it.
Got it Like yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:18):
That's, I was like as soon as I saw the comment
before I saw who it was, or likewhat the like, like what the
context was I was like, oh fuck,am I a terrible person?
Like am I just getting calledout now?
But like it.
But also that real jumped uplike just them of, like like
plays it had, just becausesomebody called me a racist on
it, which had for no fuckingreason, which had nothing to do
(52:38):
with anything.
I had nothing to do withanything.
I was just.
I was like gentrificationexists and it sucks and that was
like kind of my thing and yeah,we're going to just do that so
real?
Speaker 2 (52:49):
Yeah, well, he had a point.
Sounds like you're being reallyracist against white people,
right?
Speaker 1 (52:53):
now.
Yeah, man, you know we have arough hour, but okay.
So to this guy's point.
I had not listened to, not theracist guy we're.
I'm segueing back.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
The classless music guy.
Speaker 1 (53:10):
Yes, yes, yes, I did look at the lyrics and your
lyrics are.
They are.
Wait, I was, I was talking toMichael.
Oh, this is my favorite lineRock bottom of the body, pile,
shoot hot spit, crunch bone.
Is that that?
Yeah, that is a sick one, yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:33):
Thank you, charlie.
I will give Charlie credit forthat one because he definitely
like had the idea for that verse.
Well, like, basically, the ideabehind the song was we wanted
the, the verses, to be reallydense and manic and like weird
and odd, and the for the chorusto be a little more spread, and
so that's why there's a lotgoing on in the verses and then
(53:57):
the chorus is like three wordsbut yeah, no, like Charlie's an
incredible writer, we wrote thesong together but I, like he was
like I figured it out.
I figured it out Rock bottom ofthe body, pile, shoot, hot spit
, crunch bone.
And I was like you're sofucking weird for that and I
(54:22):
love it.
Like I'm obsessed, like itdoesn't rhyme, it doesn't make
sense, it's like kind of visual,but it also just like you're
like ow that like it's, likeit's like it's like it really
puts you exactly where I wantedsomeone to be used, like laying
on the tile under a bunch ofbodies, just like being crushed,
(54:45):
and like how you know?
Like like you go from from themania to the crash, like yeah,
kind of.
Speaker 1 (54:57):
Yeah, what, what, what is the story behind the
song?
Because that is not what thesong is about.
Speaker 2 (55:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
Are you how?
How much do you feel likesaying about it?
Speaker 2 (55:06):
Yeah, I'll say some, I'll say some.
So the song is actually about Ihad a, a psychotic break my
freshman year of college and Ireally really didn't know that
at the time, because anyonewho's ever been manic or
psychotic knows it's like reallyhard to to to know that you
(55:30):
think everyone else is is wrongand you're right, basically.
And so I going going with thatsort of idea and just thinking
that you are being directlygiven signs in the universe that
, like this person is meant foryou and that was what was
happening with me like freshmanyear of college.
Basically like this random guywho absolutely did not deserve
(55:55):
my time or attention, like I hadjust gotten out of a long
relationship and he was therebut incredibly, um, a bad
influence.
Let's just say that he was abad influence and because of a
lot of factors, I ended up likereally, really really falling
(56:15):
hard for this guy.
But it was like co-morbid withan intense case of mania where I
was like you know, I associatedall of these like super happy,
new energy feelings with himinstead of like, oh, I should
seek medical help, and so, likethat song is sort of from the
(56:40):
perspective of me when I was inthat space of like.
You know, I'm so sure aboutthis, I'm so positive that the
universe is sending me signs.
But he had a girlfriend likelike, who was still in high
school and across the country,and you know, yeah, it was tough
(57:01):
.
It was tough and he just likewasn't attracted to me.
It was really like, like ithurts so bad.
But ultimately I'm so gladnothing ever happened, because
whoa, he's a piece of work.
But if you ever listen to this,he's not going to be happy.
But it's fine, we don't talk toeach other anymore, so I doubt
he'll ever even see it.
But yeah, I think this song wasvery cathartic for me because I
(57:27):
had a lot of pent up ragetowards him and a lot of energy
Like this time in my life had somuch energy, but it was also so
toxic and corrosive, and so Ijust like wanted to figure out
how to wrap all of that uptogether.
Speaker 1 (57:45):
And so, yeah, yeah, Wow, yeah, no, I like it.
I mean, it's very like as Iread the lyrics.
It's very intense, yeah it isit is.
Speaker 2 (57:53):
It is an intense song .
Speaker 1 (57:54):
It's like I can't wait to go to your first play,
you know.
Speaker 2 (57:59):
I can't, I can't wait to make my Broadway debut after
becoming an international popsensation.
And everyone's like they canact and I'm like, yeah, bitch,
I'm aware of many hats.
Speaker 1 (58:13):
Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2 (58:15):
But also, like, at the end of the day, I just am
happy with like, doing art onany level at any time.
But yeah, yeah, this is I mean,this is an incredible song.
Speaker 1 (58:30):
I think it's extremely well produced, like
the video is awesome.
So, just like you know, keepdoing that.
I got two more questions.
Speaker 2 (58:40):
Yeah, hit me.
Speaker 1 (58:43):
Two.
Which one do I want to askfirst?
We'll do this one.
What do you do when you'restarting to second guess
yourself or feel like there's noreason to keep on making music?
Or if that has never occurredto you, what do you do when you
have somebody some old guy starthating on your music on the
(59:04):
internet?
What are the sort of likemechanisms that you've developed
about your ego?
Speaker 2 (59:11):
So many, because you know that I this is a daily
struggle and like all musiciansI think have that like do I even
bother?
But then I do a few things.
I will like just start playingcovers, I'll just play songs
that I know and love and I knowthat I can do well, and then I
(59:33):
feel how good it feels to dothat and how like natural that
feels and I'm like, okay, yeah,that connects me to the why.
And then also, like when myfriends or people I don't know
reach out at all about it likeeven the fact that they like
(59:54):
gave it a listen I'm like, okay,that's something that really
helps.
But I also like to go throughmy notes app and my voice memos,
because it's literally awasteland of ideas and melodies
and songs and you know lyricsthat are just lying dormant and
I'm like, okay, I literally havea full fucking archive.
(01:00:21):
Obviously I do this consciouslyor unconsciously, so I'm going
to do it anyway.
You know what I mean.
And sometimes I'll listen to anold voice memo or read an old
note and I'll be like, damn,okay, shit like wow, I didn't
realize.
(01:00:41):
I don't remember ever recordingthat or saying that, but it
actually was quite good.
So that really helps me whenI'm feeling like, oh, like
sometimes I'll even feel likejealous of my past self, like,
oh, she was so inspired and,like you know, had all this
stuff to write about, and I'mlike I can always go back to
(01:01:04):
those notes and go back to thosetimes and, you know, build on
them.
But yeah, those are some of mycoping mechanisms.
Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
Those are great.
Yeah, I think playing covers issomething that I've been kind
of more into is I'm kind of justlike re-finding my stuff,
because I was only intooriginals for a while.
But yeah, no, it's nice to hearsomebody else say that, as well
as the other stuff youmentioned.
That was probably one of thebest answers we've had for that
(01:01:36):
so far.
This is a new industry questionthat we've started asking.
Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, I really do do that andlike just playing things that
are kind of easy, like just soyou remind yourself, like this
is.
You know, this is thefundamental part of me, and when
something is simple, you canreally go crazy.
So, yeah, definitely recommend.
(01:02:04):
It also makes you feel betterabout, like where you're at
currently, because you're like,oh, this song is so easy and
then it's like probably a songthat I wouldn't have found easy
a few years ago.
So, yeah, anyways absolutelyAlright.
Speaker 1 (01:02:19):
Last question what is your idea of success?
Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
My idea of success is being able to pay rent and have
health insurance and have foodand maybe then some just being
able to make a living off of myart.
Once I can do that, I will feelfree.
There you go, love it and alsolike having like a million
(01:02:56):
monthly listeners.
Would be cool one day.
Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
Hey, you're on your way, yeah yeah.
I was in right now.
You know about to have maybe2000 soon.
Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
Oh hey, come on, I hope so.
Fingers crossed in Chalaw.
Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
Yeah, we're gonna.
Kate's released like 50something songs.
That's insane.
Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
I had no idea that is so wild.
She I mean she's been doingthis since because she moved to
New York when she was 18.
So, yeah, I, I feel like I'm,I'm, yeah.
Like I said earlier, I'm justgetting started.
There is so much more to come.
Speaker 1 (01:03:29):
Yeah, no, it's.
I feel like you have a good.
You have a good streamlinedapproach to everything that
you're doing now is is, in myhumble mean, nothing words.
I think I think you got it Likejust just keep doing what
you're doing.
Thank you so anything else youwanna say to fans or anybody
listening, or the line comes outAugust 18th.
Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
Thank you If you've gotten this far.
I love you.
Thank you, um.
Dm me and tell me if you've gotthis far, um, but I I'm just so
appreciative of you guys forhaving me on the show.
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
Thank you so much for being on the show.
This was a super fun.
Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
Yeah, I had such a great time Stream, stream 555.
Do it Follow.
Follow me on Instagram atannablashr.
That's where I post all of mylike, show updates and all that
shit.
(01:04:28):
So if you want to stay in theloop, that's where you go.
Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
Yeah, I'm going to try to be your next show for
sure, whenever that is Ditto,ditto.
Um, I think we got some stuffin September which we might have
to hit you up.
Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
Um yeah, I'm, I'm around, hit my line Either way.
Speaker 1 (01:04:45):
Whenever you get back into New York, hopefully fall,
get together with like somemusician friends.
It would be really cool.
Actually, I'll have like alittle meet and hang out.
Speaker 3 (01:04:53):
Yeah Well, that was such a fun night, you know.
Speaker 2 (01:04:58):
I want to chase that high, for sure.
Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
Yeah, let's keep doing that, I think.
I think, yeah, that was such agreat show.
I mean, we even talk about, uh,you know the other people, but
you know yeah no one.
Speaker 2 (01:05:08):
Lizzie were also great.
I mean like all very different,but there's a through line,
which is we listen to a lot ofLady Gaga growing up.
Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
That was the three line.
I guess I was looking for it,but I guess they were just Lady
Gaga, uh yeah, I feel like LadyGaga is actually the three line
for reality.
Speaker 2 (01:05:29):
Yeah For, for.
For most New York musicians,most New York singers, it's like
Gaga's, Gaga's.
Uh, definitely, we worship atthe shrine but, also quick fun
story before we end.
I so my parents live in Malibuand Lady Gaga literally lives
(01:05:50):
down the street.
And one time my parents are atthe grocery store with my dog
and this woman is like your dogis so cute, and my mom looks up
and is like thank you, and it'sliterally Lady Gaga, like Miss
Mrs Germanata in the flesh, andum, that's just, that's just LA
(01:06:15):
baby.
Speaker 1 (01:06:16):
Yeah, I yeah, no, totally.
You know who's funny?
I just saw at the beach.
He was sitting right next to us.
It was Kay Lani.
No way.
And I was like I was.
I was sitting there, I was withmy friends and I was just
staring at her and I felt so Ilike felt bad doing it because
I'm like, is that is that?
And I was like on her Instagram14.8 million followers I'm like
(01:06:38):
, but that's are you?
Yeah, and I was like I justcouldn't help.
Speaker 2 (01:06:43):
Yeah, Uh yeah, no, the neck tattoos are a pretty
dead giveaway.
Speaker 1 (01:06:47):
Yeah, face tattoo.
I was like that's totally her.
Yeah, anyway, uh, yeah.
And also my friend did serveLady Gaga coffee one time and
said she was the nicest personever and my buddy was not stoked
because she came in like rightbefore they closed and then his
like coworker came up and waslike you know, that was Lady
(01:07:07):
Gaga, right Like the one youwere just an asshole to.
Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
He's like oh, I bet she appreciates when people are
assholes to her because she'slike, well, I feel like I get
the princess treatment all thetime, like it's nice to be
treated like a person for sure.
Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
I think on the coasts she's probably very well
respected.
I feel like middle America isprobably a little a little torn
up on Lady Gaga.
Speaker 2 (01:07:29):
Definitely, definitely, um, but also, like
she's, a badass.
Speaker 1 (01:07:33):
Like you know, she handles her.
Speaker 2 (01:07:36):
She's so.
She's so mother.
And also she started offcutting her teeth in New York
clubs, just like us, you know,like she and Lana too, lizzie
Grant at the time, like theywere.
There's old videos of them fromlike the aughts performing at,
you know, boiler room or thebitter end, and like yeah just
like so cool.
Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
It's like oh well, Michael, what's the, what's the
record store that you know theguy Jamal?
Speaker 3 (01:08:03):
generation.
I know that's not generationrecords, a different one.
Um, oh, my God, this is goingto kill me.
Yeah, a village, villagerevival, village revival and he
knows.
Yeah, I want already to go inthere and all that stuff right
and yeah, I think he's on afirst name basis with Dave
(01:08:24):
Chappelle, Like he calls me youknow, I think it was like so
many people Like he's, just likeI can imagine.
Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
Yeah, I would be.
I would be a very unshill umlike host or waiter in like a
shishi restaurant because Iwould not be able to like keep
my shirt together.
Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
But I mean, like I don't think that's true, I think
you well.
Speaker 2 (01:08:49):
I would be fine.
I would be fine, but there's acouple people who like me, like,
we'll just say that.
Yeah, well, I got.
Obviously.
I think, um, if I'm at HarryStyles, I'd be so gagged, like I
don't know, like it's not, I'mnot necessarily like a huge
Harry Styles fan.
I just feel like I would be so,like what, like, if I'm at
(01:09:14):
Zendaya I would feel this way,um, just like untouchable.
Speaker 1 (01:09:18):
I really I really like Harry Styles, like the more
, the more stuff I see of his.
Like there was a Howard Sternshow that he did and he was
doing some old like covers andlike I was like damn, this guy
is like really really good, oh,he's, he's fan.
Speaker 2 (01:09:33):
Hot take Harry Styles is really good.
Hot take.
Well, it is a hot take from themusician world.
Speaker 1 (01:09:38):
Like like yeah, for people like me it's not usually
like a thing that people areusually talking about, but he's
incredible.
Speaker 2 (01:09:46):
Oh, you know who.
I would flip the fuck out if Imet Fiona Apple.
Speaker 1 (01:09:51):
Oh well, it's the same.
Speaker 2 (01:09:53):
Because she just doesn't leave her house.
So like that would be a trueunicorn.
Speaker 1 (01:09:59):
She is an example of one of the singers we're talking
about at the start.
You know or it's like theydon't like being out that much-
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (01:10:06):
And she's one of my she's one of my biggest
inspirations.
It's like I'm like if FionaApple liked attention.
Speaker 1 (01:10:11):
I could totally.
There's your new Instagram bio.
Speaker 2 (01:10:15):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (01:10:16):
Fiona Apple liked attention.
Fuck, I feel like I could talkto you for so much longer.
Right, I actually have to gobowling and I'm sure Michael has
stuff to do.
I'm sure you have stuff to do.
Yeah, let's all.
Let's do some shit when you getback in town, Absolutely.
Thank you so much for doingthis thing Like.
This has been super fun andlike.
Speaker 2 (01:10:34):
I can't.
Oh my God, here you go.
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