Rooms Full of Indistinguishable Remains: House of Leaves: 80

In which Carla explores the echoes of Johnny's past and the house's present, the spiral of echoes, and the beginning of the exploration of the Five and a Half Minute Hallway. Letters from an asylum and always echoes hallways.

Theme song and stinger: “Comadreamers I” by Haunted Me, off their Pleasure album, used with permission

The House of Leaves universe:
House of Leaves by Mark Z. Danielewski https://bookshop.org/a/6560/9780375703768
The Whalestoe Letters: From House of Leaves https://bookshop.org/a/6560/9780375714412
Poe’s album “Haunted”: Apple https://apple.co/2MT62F4, Spotify https://spoti.fi/3c2RsDq

House of Leaves There Might Be Cupcakes series: https://www.podchaser.com/lists/house-of-leaves-episodes-there-might-be-cupcakes-podcast-107aIYJ3Dw

Referenced:
Elizabeth: A Novel of the Unnatural by Jessica Hamilton https://bookshop.org/a/6560/9781943910670
Ovid’s Metamorphoses https://bookshop.org/a/6560/9780140447897
Daphnis and Chloe by Longus https://bookshop.org/a/6560/9780199554959

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Episode Transcript

(00:09):
Woe upon woe, not enough roomfor it at all, And yet there
is room. It makes rooms,rooms upon rooms upon hundreds of rooms,
full of indistinguishable remains. Pelafina,Heather, Livra, Johnny's mother, and
a letter to Johnny from her mentalhospital. Hi, this is Carla,

(00:32):
and welcome back to There might becupcakes, And welcome back to the labyrinth
of the Navidson Record and the expandinghouse at Ashtree Lane in Virginia. This
is the fourth episode in my ongoingdeep dive series I'm mark z Daniel Elski's
horror novel House of Leaves. Ifyou've not listened to them, the episodes
in order are as follows. Sixtyeight bone Chimes and Primitive Spiders seventy or

(00:56):
Godic seventy three, tangerines to appleslinked to their podchaser links in the show
notes. When last we left thefamily, Karen, the mother, was
screaming in a closet, but itinexplicably grown larger. We returned to the
family to an uneasy, emotional silenceand dance around the problems at hand,
and Ruler Navison continues to record everythingas planned, but the domestic togetherness that

(01:22):
was a goal for him, givingup his photography career and joining Karen and
nesting bliss. It has turned intothis dance of distance. Navidson is studiously
filming his growing house and Karen iscold to him and at arms length with
the children. The title of thisepisode comes from both Johnny's footnotes to the
Navidson Record and Pelofina's letters. BothJohnny's mother independently used something akin to this

(01:46):
phrase. Johnny and his expansive footnotesto the Navison Record and Pelofina to her
letters and her letters to her sonfor the mental hospital. Will explore that
shortly. Interestingly, Johnny wrote nofootnotes and his mother there's letters, none,
not even to define her expansive andshowy Greek mythology references, Latin phrase's

(02:07):
use of Spanish, French, andeven Old English. Shout out to the
house to leave sub Breddit for helpingme with the old English translations. Again,
more on that later. I amagain getting ahead of myself. House
to leaves is circular, so Irather can't help myself. Everything's connected.
Johnny most likely did not annotate Pelofina'sletters because their intensely emotional and psychological content.

(02:31):
Again, I assume too close tothe bone to paraphrase Emily Dickinson.
Pelofina, as we shall see,was so singularly focused upon Johnny. He
was her only source of happiness.He was her emotional barometer. She struggled
to maintain her sense of self outsideof her son. I can't imagine Johnny,

(02:51):
in his supernatural and emotional struggles withan abbotson record papers, being able
to footnote his mother's letters without comingapart himself. We shall see why as
we venture into Pelophina's personal labyrinth athis proper time. If you're closely following
along, this is section five.The opening quote is from R. K.
Naharan Radju welcomed the intrusion something torelieve the loneliness of the place.

(03:17):
Yes, the house on Ashtream Laneis incredibly lonely and probably frightening right now,
and fear of the unknown can betruly lonely, and a deep intrusion
is coming. Nayaran was an EastIndian author, one of the earliest writers
of Indian literature in English who mentoredGraham Greene, one of the foremost writers

(03:38):
of relationships and domestic dramas. He'sthe author of the famous novel The End
of the Affair amongst others, SoKaren screams, then an emotional silence on
Navidson's tape. Over the next month, we see his friend, the engineer
Billy Reston, returns several times fromUva, keep measuring the house, calling

(03:59):
the is changing shape and growing agoddamn spatial rape, a theme that will
return in pelasine As Letters Navin.Since brother Tom has to return home in
June, Billy gives him a rideto Charlotte's Field so we can get Fellas
Airport. Saying goodbye to Tom isfraught and complicated for the first time in
the novel. Titles to the song'simposed companion album Haunted, show up in

(04:23):
the novel, emboldened in the text, one directly and one obliquely. The
first is the five and a halfminute Hallway track eight on the record on
page sixty an Exploration B, whichof course is referred to as Exploration A.
I'm saying it counts bear with meon page sixty three, Track one
on the album. I first talkedabout Exploration A in the first episode Bone

(04:46):
Chimes and Primitive Spiders, but Iwill again hear because it fits into what
we are directed to read in thefootnotes by the editor of the written EPs
and record. The song Exploration Btrack one start with a ringing phone and
continues, I thought you should knowDaddy died today. He closed his eyes
and he left here at twelve hthree. He sends his love. He

(05:12):
wants you to know he isn't holdinga grudge, and if you are,
you should let go pick up pickup please, mom. Hello. It
fits in this episode because we willcome to the death of Johnny's father and
well to his mother in a reallybig way, and a grudge fits in.

(05:34):
You'll understand the grudge once we delveinto his mother's letters. And then
there's five and a half minute HallwayTrack eight on the Haunted album quote,
I live at the end of afive and a half minute hallway, but
as far as I can see,you're still miles from me in your doorway.
And oh, by the way,when the landlord came today, he

(05:57):
measured everything. I knew he'd getit wrong, but I just played along
because I was hoping he'd fix itall. But there's only so far I
can go. When you're living ina hallway that keeps growing. I think
to myself, five more minutes andI'll be there inside your door. But
there's more to this story than I'vebeen letting on. There are words made

(06:17):
of letters unwritten, and yes,I forgive you for leading me on.
You can think of it like thiswhen you can't resist. I'm in your
hallway, standing on a cliff,and just when I think I've found the
trick, I'm tumbling like an echobecause there's only so far I can go.
When you're living in a hallway thatkeeps growing, I think to myself,

(06:41):
thirty seconds and I'll be there.I think it bears repeating here,
since it could get confusing that thephrase the Navitson record refers to the compiled
videotapes shot by Will Navitson in hishome. Also the two videotapes of the
two explorations A and B that werepassed around by Pole and then became the
urban legend of the house, andthis written compilation by first Zapaneo now Johnny

(07:06):
Truant, that have been also passedaround. As I said, the house
is circular, perhaps spiral, rathereven widening circles unto itself, always returning
home, which brings us to thetheme of echoes in this section, imagine
an echo down that well of aspiral of ideas of a house quote.

(07:29):
It is impossible to appreciate the importanceof space in the Navison record without first
taking into account the significance of echoes, which, of course, in House
of Leaves, leads us to literatureand myth. There are two versions of
the myth of Echo. In thefirst, Echo who's a Mountain Nymph,
helps the god Zeus a ka Jupitermake a sexual conquest by distracting his wife

(07:54):
hera a ka Juno with long windedconversation. Basically, Jupiter can get it
on while Echoes going blah blah blahblah with his wife harrah okay. Juno
punishes Echo by fixing her voice sothat she can only repeat the last word
that was spoken to her. ThenEcho falls in love with Narcissus, whose

(08:18):
self obsession causes Echo to lose herselfuntil only her voice is left. Interestingly,
the woman who can only speak otherswords, who can only reflect others,
falls in love with the man whoonly loves himself, who falls in
love with his own reflection. Thisversion is told in Avid's Metamorphoses. In

(08:41):
the second version of the Echo myth, the sexual god Pan falls for Echo.
She rejects him, and in response, he and the men who work
in the fields, who Pan hasworked up into a frenzy tear her apart
quote, varying all of her excepther voice a danta tamila her still singing

(09:05):
limbs. This version is told inthe second century Daftness and Chloe by the
Greek poet Longus. Here in thetext of the book, instead of saying
he tore her to pieces, itsays he tore her to pisces. Put
a pin in this it shows upagain in a most interesting place. As

(09:26):
he said, there's no accidents inthis book. I noticed that in the
first myth it's that of a fatherfigure that of Zeus or Jupiter, and
the second is that of a sexualconquest figure slash stalker. Both interestingly revolve
around sexual jealousy, which will showup again. Since Avid turns Echo into

(09:48):
shadows and forests, his verse isapplicable to this house of leaves quote.
So she was turned away to hideher face, her lips, her guilt,
among the trees, even the leavesto haunt, caves of the forest,
to feed her love on melancholy sorrow, which sleepless turned her body to

(10:09):
a shade, first pale and wrinkled, then a sheet of air, then
bones, which some say turned tothin, worn rocks, and last her
voice remained vanished in forest fall fromher far from her usual walks on hills
and valleys. She's heard by allwho calls her voice has life. Before

(10:35):
we continue to listen for echoes,something else is inserted. It seems odd,
but everything was done with purpose inthis novel, so I will pay
purchase to it. Johnny quibbles abouta don Quixote quote and Spanos and oats
Sepano compared two identical quotes and claimsa nuance change in one of them one

(10:56):
of the translations, and Johnny pointsout how both of them are exactly the
same. Thanks to my dual LingoSpanish lessons, I was able to translate
it. Thank you, you cutegreen owl. Quote The truth whose mother
is history, emulator of time,repository of actions, witness of the past,

(11:16):
example and warning of the present,warning of what is to come.
This is another heartbringer of reading Johnny'smother's words, plus an upcoming conversation between
someone else and Johnny's mother about truthagain. We'll put a pin in this
something is coming, which is amajor theme to this novel, Something big

(11:37):
is looming and coming. I findit interesting that the noveling question is don
Quixote, the source of the wordpixotic, which means striving for visionary ideals,
and the source of the phrase tiltingat wind mills, which means to
attack imaginary enemies or to fruitless quests? Is the house an imaginary enemy?
Or is the n Abson Records powerover someone's psyche or a pelophenus hold over

(12:01):
Johnny? Or is exploring the fiveand a half minute Hallway a fruitless quest?
More about echoes quote from Zapano.Is impossible to appreciate importance of space
and the Navison record without first takinginto account the significance of echoes. Think
how much space is required for anecho? Zapano explains this it's massive quote.

(12:26):
At sixty eight degrees fahrenheit, soundtravels at approximately one thousand, one
hundred and thirty feet per second.A reflective surface must stand at least fifty
six and a half fee away inorder for a person to detect the doubling
of her voice in other words,to hear echo, regardless of whether eyes
are opened or closed, is tohave already seen a sizeable space. Myth

(12:50):
makes echo the subject of longing anddesire. Physics makes echo the subjects of
distance and design. Where emotion andreason are concerned, both claims are accurate,
and where there is no echo,there is no description of space or
love, there is only silence.Please keep this quote in mind when we
talk about Johnny's mother, Distance,love, and echoing of words. Echoes

(13:13):
are emotional as well as literal,and distance is required. Interestingly, graphomania
is brought up in a footnote onpage forty three. Backtracking a little,
I discussed hypographia in episode seventy year. Godic graphomania is a type of hypergraphia.
The distance difference in hypographia, thecompulsion to write, and graphomania is

(13:35):
that graphomania usually results in nonsense.People suffering from graphomania write about themselves,
and the causes can be isolation,estrangement, in security, and the desire
to appear sophisticated. You will seeall of these in Johnny's Mother's Letters from
the Asylum. Johnny, at thispoint in the footnotes, describes a horrible
supernatural event that he experiences at workat the tattoo parlor. Quote. Everything

(14:01):
falls apart, stories heard but notrecall, letters to words, filling my
head, fragmenting like artillery shells,shrapnel like syllables, shrap cracked, traveling
at murderous speed, tearing through itall at a very, very bad,
perhaps even irreparable way. We thenlearn about Karen's phobia of open dark places,

(14:22):
developed inexplicably in childhood, and wesee in this incident at work that
Johnny is developing it, perhaps fromreading the Navidson Record, absorbing it from
the pages themselves simultaneously. In therecord, Navison has promised Karen that he
will not enter the hallway that hasappeared in their living room wall, the
impossible door in their inside exterior wall, and yet he does, of course,

(14:46):
he does anyway while Karen and thechildren are asleep, and he gets
lost in his own home, andhe hears growling, growling, and he
finally stumbles back into his living roomfrom his terrifying ordeal, he finds his
daughter Daisy. The record ends herewith a shaken Will tucking Daisy into bed

(15:09):
and turning to find Karen in thedoorway, worrying to know what he's doing.
Here there is a footnote interjected bythe editor, directing the reader to
now read Appendix two D Johnny's father'sobituary and Appendix two E the letters written
to Johnny by his mother from theInstitution, starting on page eighty four.
So here we briefly leave the worldof the house and enter the world of

(15:33):
Johnny Truant and Pellafina Heather Libra,and it is just as terrifying and has
just as many corridors. First,Johnny's father's obituary, there is an editor's
note letting us know that, atJohnny's request, all identifying factors have been
removed, including his father's first nameand the actual day of his death.

(15:54):
Pellafina. His mother calls his fatherDonny in her letters, but it is
suggested that this has been changed aswell. Father was a pilot who was
grounded due to injury, so starteddriving trucks and died in a mactruck accident
grounded flight like Icarus or am Iso caught up in the mythology you'd written
to this novel that I'm writing myown footnotes now? Like Johnny and Zipano

(16:17):
it's just scare, he thought.Then we go into Pelotina's letters. You
can explore them in two different ways. You can read them as is in
the appendix of the novel, oryou can buy the standalone collection The Whaleestoe
Letters, which contains an introduction bythe former information technologist from the Three Attic
Whalestoe Institute who rescued them and compiledthem, and which contains eleven extra letters

(16:42):
of Pelopinas which deepened the story.I've got that linked in the show notes.
The Three Attic Whalestoe Institute letters aredated from July twenty eighth, nineteen
eighty two to May third, nineteeneighty nine. Before we delve into them,
let me show the timeline I've compiledfor the story so far. I
did so after being curious about theoverlap between Pelofina's last letters and Johnny's finding

(17:07):
the Navidson record and when the familymoved into the house, given some things
Pelophina said in her letters. Sohere's my compiled timeline up to our point
in the novel, including the extrainformation in The Whalestone Letters Collection seventeen twenty.
Ash Tree Lane is quote unquote posedlybuilt in this year according to the
real nineteen eighty one. Again,according to the realtor, a family wanted

(17:33):
to build an l extension, thenmoved out because they wanted something much smaller.
July nineteen eighty one. Johnny's fatherdies in the truck accident. July
twenty eighth, nineteen eighty two.Johnny's mother's Pelofina, her first letter from
three Attic Whalestone Institute to Johnny,approximately one year after Johnny's father died.

(17:57):
May third, nineteen eighteen nine.Pelopina's last letter to Johnny May fourth,
nineteen eighty nine. Pelopin's suicide.May fifth, nineteen eighty nine. The
letter from whales Toe's director telling Johnnyof Pelopina's death. September nineteen eighty nine.

(18:17):
Johnny retrieved one piece of jewelry ofPelopinus from Whalestoe's Institute. October thirty
first, nineteen ninety eight. Johnny'sintroduction to the navitson record. He found
it in Zapano's apartment. April nineteenninety Will begins recording documentary videotapes of his
family and his house. The beginningof his documentary project. June nineteen ninety

(18:41):
the date of the two exploration VHStapes, Expiration A and Expiration B.
June twenty first is Johnny's birthday.Nineteen ninety three, Merrimax purchased the two
expiration videotapes and all of Navidson's documentarytapes, compiled them and put them out
as the documentary movie than Abbotson recordsame year. The three attic Whalestoe Institute

(19:04):
closed. August six, two thousand, the date of Walden d. Wifer's
compilation of Pelofina's Letters, with elevenextra letters included. Now to the letters
Johnny's mother is in. I'm goingto approach the letters the same way I'm
approaching the novel. I'm leaving somany details for you to discover. However,

(19:27):
there are some specific details I'm into discuss. For the purpose of
expiration and intrigue. I'm explicitly leavingout why Pelofina was committed. I will
only tell you that Johnny's father andher husband had her committed. She was
involuntarily committed by her husband. Iwill leave those details why to unfold for

(19:48):
you. Another song for the Hauntedalbum comes up repeatedly in Pelofina's Letters.
Spanish doll track fourteen Pelofina refers oftensaving a Spanish doll all in an attic.
Remember the mental hospital's name is thethree attic Welstoe quote. This place
feels so unfamiliar, and yet Iknow it well. I think I used

(20:11):
to belong here. But the onlyway I can tell is that I miss
you still and I cannot find youhere. You left me tattered and torn,
just like that Spanish doll. Iwent down to the alleyway Sierra la
Bonita and found out you were gone. Spanish doll see nounca tiferis as if
you'd never left. You left noword, no message. I still don't

(20:33):
know what went wrong. Spanish dolllagrima tears. But now no matter where
I go, I always seem toreturn Spanish doll. Busca me find me
to where you left me, tatteredand torn. Spanish doll. You're so
rompido meme muskina. I am torn, my sweet doll. It's like that

(20:56):
sweet Spanish doll, a memory gildedin red and gold. Spanish doll deloro
of gold, also pain beauty,guarded and never sold. Spanish doll.
Quidami protect me, I keep itwith me wherever I go, and I
love you still, no matter howa story will unfold. Spanish doll quiddami

(21:18):
remember me, you know I alwayswill. I have part of you here
in this souvenir, sweet Spanish doll. Stranger in this world without you is
all I can ever be. AllI know that's pure and clear. You
left it with me here in thesouvenir, the sweet Spanish doll. This
part is spoken. I believe thevoice is Mark and Annie Danielski's father.

(21:44):
We hear of a lovely daughter shotdown in her mistaken flight, unaware yet
how her life will be affected bythis experience, and then a girl says,
why is it a house of leaves? Pelopina's letters go from clear to
delusional to clear again, but Iuse the term clarity loosely. She's obsessed
with Johnny in a disturbing and emotionallyin ssstual manner. He is her only

(22:08):
love and he is perfect in heroverly effusive eyes. She's also completely impressed
with herself. Remember what I saidabout graphomania, about how graphomaniacs desire pure
sophisticated As I mentioned, Peloquina's lettersare also pretentious, full of references to
Greek mythology, Latin phrases as wellas Spanish and French phrases, and even

(22:33):
Old English, and allusions to relativelyobscure book characters, and on and on
the surface, the letters seem tobe written by an extremely well read intellectual.
Read them deeply for context, andthey're frenetic and pretentious and alarming.
They made me really uncomfortable. Sincethere are no accidents in this novel,

(22:56):
her allusions must be examined. I'lldo so more deeply later. On page
six thirty of the novel, Pelofina'sletter refers back as an echo of the
past and the future to the supernaturalincident at Johnny's work that happens years later,
quote you did more than what yourself. On page six thirty one,

(23:19):
Pelofina wrote a taunting, cruel letterto Johnny that explains why he's calling himself
Johnny Truant. I explored the implicationof this name in episode sixty eight Bone
Chimes at Primitive Fighters. Pelofina maybe an unreliable narrator for many reasons,
but one more important thing to mentionabout Pelofina. She appears to have premonitions

(23:41):
about the house. In her lesslucid states, she speaks about rooms upon
rooms, about corridors, as quotedat the beginning of this episode, and
about becoming a tree. At hermoster godic, her text takes the shape
of hallways. Two themes that reappearin her letters along with the span of
stall are water and trees, overand over. Having absorbed the madness and

(24:06):
now understanding why Johnny feel stuck inhis life, as I discussed in episode
sixty eight, a tattooists assistant fillingup the ink cartridges and sweeping up the
shop, not dating anyone and withvery few friends, we returned to the
meet of the navioson record and theechoes of lies and compromises. Echoes in
those very words, lies and compromises, compromises and lies. Navidson compromises by

(24:33):
telling Karen they'll turn the investigation ofthe five and a half minute hallway over
to Billy Ruston and then move.He lies by not telling Karen what happened,
always echoes hallways, And then inanother echo, we learned that Karen
is not only similar to Johnny,or Johnny is similar to Karen, developing
her phobia, but Karen is alsosimilar to Pelofina. Both became peculiar in

(24:59):
childhood, beginning to practice their smilesin the mirror, which I find very
eerie and reminds me the horror novelElizabeth by Ken Greenhall writing as Jessica Hamilton,
which I highly recommend, and I'velinked in the show notes, and
I will link in the website entryfor this episode. Both are oddly controlled
in this manner and controlling. Bothhave an odd sense of self. Both

(25:22):
have a striking before and after intheir lives, and both are living in
fear. Section six begins with quotesabout animals. Ernest Becker's quote animals live
in a world without time quote unquote, but rather with instincts and no knowledge
of death. Christian norberg Schultz quoteis about how man needs orientation to act

(25:44):
and animals do not. We learnedthat Hillary the dog is wary of people.
At the end of Navis in therecord, Mallory the tabbycat disappears with
no reference from anyone in the family. In a dated moment on the tapes
August eleventh, nineteen ninety one,week after Navvy got lost, we have
footage of Hillary chasing Mallory into thefive and a half minute hallway, and
then through the window we see themboth immediately appear in the backyard. The

(26:08):
house's temporal and spatial existence is apparentlydifferent for animals. Seeking their names together
struck me. I know those names, and then it hit me. Hillary
and Mallory were both explorers. Everythingis connected and nothing is an accident in
the record. Sir Edmund Percival Hillarynineteen nineteen two thousand and eight from New

(26:30):
Zealand was the first person to summitMount Everest. George Herbert Lee Mallory eighteen
eighty six to nineteen twenty four,British was part of the first three person
expedition to Everest. And if youdidn't know, explorers who die on Mount
Everest are left where they die becauseit sounds safe to try to remove them,
and then they are used as landmarksfor future climbers. Orange Jacket,

(26:52):
for example, think back to Johnny'smother's quote with which I opened to the
episode, hundreds of rooms full ofindistinguishable remains, echoes upon echoes of premonitions.
Everything's connected. There's one more animalreference than this section quote kill Kenny,
Disappear. I hunted this down andfound that this is a reference to

(27:14):
an old and creepy limerick which refersback to Mallory's parents. There were two
cats that Kilkenny each thought there wasone cat too many. They fought and
they hit, and they scratched,and they bit till accepting their nails and
the tips of their tails. Insteadof two cats, there weren't any.
This section ends with two luscious quotes. In the shadow of unspoken events and

(27:41):
in the glass of my memory,in the moon stream of my imagination,
I adore the language of this novel. I'm in love obviously, I'm on
the fourth episode of it. Sectionseven begins with a quote from Jack Lindon
and Stibbled a Fire, which isabout a newcomer without imagination and explorer completely
out of his depth. And thenwe are introduced to the new Hallway explorers.

(28:06):
Holloway, Roberts and his assistants arrivedto the house on Ashtrey Lane.
Holloway is described as looking like aconquistador. In my opinion, he's a
professional. Indiana Jones character Navi telledBilly all about exploration, a told him
he lied to Karen and sent himthe VHS tape of his getting lost.
Billy Reston sent the tape to Holloway, foreshadowing if you remember the first episode

(28:29):
Bone Chimes and Primitive Spiders, Hollowaycrying is on the second tape that was
passed around and made into the documentaryby Miramax. Holloway is also assumed,
we discovered now to be the firstperson to copy the expiration a VHS tape
and pass it around to other people. Starting the urban legend of the House,
Halloway shows up at the house withtwo employees, Jed Roberts and Kirby

(28:52):
wax Hook. Jed was a truckdriver like Johnny's father before he became an
explorer. No coincidence. Wax isan expert mountain climber and Cape's flanker.
Relationships at this time continue to bean awkward dance. Navvy and Karen are
tents. We learn about Karen's pastinfidelities. Holloway and Navidson dislike each other

(29:15):
immediately. Wax is extremely extroverted andcomes in hot and hyper. Children are
acting out. Then in the footnotes, we learn about Johnny's infatuation, whom
he calls Thumper for her Bunny tattoo, familial tension, sexual tension all the
way around, and the professional explorationsinto the five and a half minute hallway

(29:37):
begin. We'll go into that hallwaywith them and explore all the pins I've
placed, such as pisces, moreabout Pelopina's letters and how they fit in
now, including those old English passagesthat read it it helped me translate.
And I'll go deeper into Haunt itslyrics and their significance. Five songs fit
directly into these sections. Later thisweek, as I began celebrating the fifth

(29:57):
anniversary of the pot cast, thankyou for listening these five years. Thank
you for understanding how my health hasinterfered with it so often. Thank you
for sharing, joining the patreons,joining the new substack, communicating on social
media, buying books through Audible onmy links on the website, and leaving
reviews thanks to my podcast reviews service. I know that my average rating across

(30:21):
all podcatchers such as Spotify, Audible, Apple Podcasts, Podchaser cast Box four
point nine out of five. Ican't ask for more than that. I'm
overwhelmed and humbled by that. Ilove all of you. Thank you for
letting me talk about books and historyand language and the weird and fun connections
my odd brain makes for all theseyears, finding cupcakes for all of us.

(30:45):
So I leave you hanging for acouple of days with two tens children,
three explorers, a uba engineer andemotionally unavailable and frightened life, and
a documentary maker husband with his camerarunning, all standing in front of an
open door and a completely dark hallway. That should not be. Last time
I left you with a scream.This time I leave you with tension and

(31:08):
mountaineering equipment in a suburban living room, cartoons on the television, and carabineers
and glow sticks on the carpet,and a beckoning doorway of dark