July 21, 2024 • 29 mins
What happens when a key witness recants their testimony in a high-profile murder case? Join us on "Things I Wanna Know with Andrea S." as we unravel the chilling 2018 murder of Christopher Alvord and his dog in the quaint town of Eureka Springs, Arkansas. This shocking crime not only shattered the town's peaceful ambiance but also left the community grappling for answers. We recount the initial discovery by the Carroll County Sheriff's Office and discuss the impact of this heinous act on a town known for its Victorian charm and artistic spirit.
Our exploration takes a deeper turn as we dissect the pretrial chaos triggered by key witness Joshua Anderson's sudden recantation. Why did he withdraw his testimony, and what theories could explain this drastic shift? We examine the potential coercion or threats behind his change of heart, coupled with the glaring lack of forensic evidence at the crime scene. The conversation highlights the community's struggle for justice and the erosion of trust in the legal system when critical testimonies falter. This discussion underscores the complexities and challenges the prosecution faced in their quest for justice.
Switching gears, we wander into the realms of nuclear power advancements and the daunting task of uncovering information about cold cases in less represented regions like Arkansas. From personal anecdotes about the perils of highway travel to the importance of safety measures, we share our insights and experiences. A playful mention of a classic book on serial killers and a nod to the adventurous spirit of Curious George add a lighter touch to our conversation. This blend of serious inquiry and light-hearted banter sets the tone for our future explorations and discoveries.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I need to know everything who and the what and
the where.
I need everything.
Trust me, I hear what you'resaying, but I like it's new what
you're telling me.
I'm curious, george.
I hop in the Porsche five and ahorse.
I'm ready for war.
I'm coming for ghosts, eternalor ghosts.
I need to know everything.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
So welcome my name's Paul G, and this is Things I
Wanna Know with Andrea S, andreaS.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Yes, andrea S, andrea S yes.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Andrea S, andrea S, all right.
So we used to do a bunch ofinterviews and a bunch of cool
stuff, and you know what?
We wanted to change it up.
We like stories.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Yes, so that's what we're going to do.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
We're going to tell you a nice story about something
we wanted to know about howabout that.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Yes, from crime to espionage, to history, to
conspiracy theories, to whateverJust things we really want to
know.
And I've got to stay moreserious because me joking around
screws things up.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Not really.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
We all know how he is .
We've listened to our previouspodcast.
Sometimes I used to have afavorite.
Oh my God, paul stop.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, moving on, so I guess go ahead,
we're going to talk.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Start with the new things About a murder that
happened not long after I movedhere.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Though Eureka Springs , eureka Springs, eureka Springs
, arkansas.
Yeah, now that everybody in theentire world does where you
live, it's okay.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Eureka Springs is, no one's going to come to Arkansas
.
We do get tourists but no one'sgoing to find me.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Usually the banjos scare everybody off.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Not where I'm at.
It's not that bad.
He always says it is.
I live down, there's banjos andthere's like Bigfoot in the
forest or something like that.
It's not that bad.
We do have turkeys, though, anddeer.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I just found, if you put some beef jerky, out for.
Bigfoot, and he'll leave youalone.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Well then.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Never mind.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Bigfoot.
If I found Bigfoot, I'd makesome money.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Big feet.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
I do have big feet, so there you go, I'm already
Bigfoot.
So this case, let's get started.
Eureka Springs V-Binance.
We're in the northwest cornerin Carroll County.
We're pretty much known for ourVictorian homes, our art, our
parades.
We have a parade every Saturdayfrom March all the way into
(02:18):
December.
Crescent Hotel for our ghosts.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Al.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Capone for the Basin Hotel.
He, he had his own room,believe it or not.
Really, yeah, he did.
You take the tour, you walk inthere and the very look to the
right I'm.
I'm dubious about that well,the tour's cool everybody has an
al capone room.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I mean the.
When did the man have time tomanage his mob if he's visiting?
Speaker 3 (02:39):
everywhere all the time.
Even the the mob's got to takea vacation.
That's funny.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
So, anyway, we're looking into the unsolved murder
of Christopher Alvord here inEureka Springs.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
It's a different case and it's got some weird things
and twists and turns.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
It's actually kind of crazy.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Yes, this case is not just about the crime itself but
the lingering questions thatsurround it, and there's few.
We'll walk you through thecrime, the investigation and the
various theories that areproposed over the years, and
there's several.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
So let's look at it just a little closer.
What do you think?
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Yes, let's go for it.
So, Alright, despite thislovely scene that we have in
Eureka very serene and relaxing-we're still working this out.
The town was shocked onFebruary 8th 2018, when this
Christopher Alvred was foundmurdered in his home.
His death has cast pretty mucha dark shadow over the community
(03:40):
and I remember when this casehit, because we just moved here
and I'm thinking I'm bringing mykids and I to this nice,
picturesque town and literallylike less than six months into
living here, somebody getsmurdered.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Right.
So Christopher Alvord.
He was a 37-year-old man livingwest of Eureka Springs,
arkansas.
Friends and family describedhim as a gentle and kind person
well-liked in the community.
Of course, they always say that, so we're going to go with it,
because we don't know anydifferent.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
So on February 8th 2018, carroll County Sheriff's
Office deputies responded to acall about an open door at the
Alvaret home.
Inside they found a gruesomescene and poor Alvaret and his
dog were brutally stabbed todeath.
I mean.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
They killed his dog.
I mean they killed his dog, Imean they didn't just stab him,
they killed, they stabbed thedog.
Why, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
I mean, the only thing I could think of is it's
horrible, don't stab a dog.
But Maybe the dog was attackingthem and they had no choice, or
making too much noise maybe.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
So the immediate reaction, though, was one of
shock and disbelief that such aviolent crime was unexpected to
be happening in this quiet town.
It's not that quiet, butwhatever and you know
everybody's like any town wasleft uneasy and fearful.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
We were there for a while.
I mean, they were telling usnot to have like the kids out at
night.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Like Eureka springs high school kids love to walk
around downtown I mean, if youguys have ever, you can look it
up on your phone.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
All the pedophiles now, oh jesus, what all right
but um, you know, it was just,things like that just don't
happen.
Yes, we always say that thingsjust don't, you know, they don't
happen here, but they do happenthey haven't everywhere.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
They've been for years.
The only thing that makes itdifferent now is that we
actually know about it, becausewe can all communicate to each
other.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
It was all over the newspaper, Our newspaper here in
Eureka.
It's maybe like five pages,it's not very big.
So the investigation startedwith a local law enforcement
obviously, and soon involved,obviously, into Arkansas State
Police.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
They worked diligently to collect evidence
and piece together what happened, but early on the evidence
suggested a struggle, becauseAlvord had multiple stab wounds
indicating a violent encounter.
The chaotic scene then showedthat he fought back, at least
Thank God.
Of course, this is allaccording to the, you know, the
news outlets that we've workedup, so can you imagine, though,
(06:09):
the crime scene of that?
It's gotta be bloody and gross.
I mean, does everything beat toshit?
Speaker 3 (06:15):
yeah, if you're stabbed to death.
It's like cast off spatter andall that other stuff.
I mean that's crazy.
So over the next few years, theinvestigation took many turns.
Obviously, on february 8th 2021, I say 21, this happened in 18,
three men were arrested inconnection to Alvarez's murder
Joshua Anderson, charles Hannaand Jason Helm.
(06:36):
I don't know why that name,jason Helm, sounds familiar to
me.
All the time.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
I mean, they do live around here.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
They were charged with first-degree murder and
animal cruelty.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
But, however, the case was far from resolved
because in February 2023, aspecial prosecutor requested
that the charges be dismissedwithout prejudice, allowing for
the possibility of futurecharges.
This came after new informationsignificantly impacted the case
(07:04):
.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
I don't think they're going to tell us, because,
whatever it is thatinvestigation, is that new info?
What?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
did he do stab himself?
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Well, think about it.
If you don't want to let it outto the public, you let it out
to the public.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Well, yeah, you have to have that secret.
So when you find the person whoactually did it yeah, close to
the vest.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
So let's discuss some of these theories.
Like I told you, there's manyof them.
One theory is that the crimestemmed from a personal dispute,
which sometimes can just happen.
Alvred was known to be friendly, but could someone have a
grudge against him?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
And was he really friendly?
That's the question.
I mean, let's be open-mindedabout this.
You know the friends and familyin the community are not going
to talk ill about someone who'sdead.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
True, there is like that taboo thing about talking
about the dead.
You should never talk negativeabout the dead.
And so we're assuming thisbecause it's what they say,
because we've never met himpersonally obviously I wouldn't
live in here that long enough toreally get to know a whole lot
of people.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
So another theory suggests it might have been a
robbery gone wrong, but thelevel of violence used excessive
for a mere burglary.
And think about it, though weboth studied serial killers and
the psychology behind it.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
I wrote a paper on it in college, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
So we know that if they're just a robbery, they're
going to do what they can to getthe person person to stop,
leave them alone so they canescape and get the hell out of
there, or they're gonna killthem as quickly as possible
because if they don't, then theygot a problem but think about
(08:37):
it.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
I mean, we don't know what time that's happened.
We can speculate, I guess.
But this is at night.
Most burglars happen during theday, when people are at work,
right?
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
But if you think, I mean to me.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
We don't know what time it was they found him.
He was decomposing by the timethey found him.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
So I mean I'm thinking about it like that much
stab wounds to cause such abloody scene.
That's almost personal, I mean,it's just a guess.
So the suspects Anderson, hannaand Helm had various
connections to the crime.
Initially Anderson agreed totestify against Helm but later
recanted, which dramaticallychanged the evidence against
them.
So that's probably why thespecial person Part of it.
(09:16):
Yeah, yeah, I bet.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
So each suspect had alibis and they obviously delved
into their stories to figureout what they were doing, but
none provided a definite answer,definitive answer.
So the lack of conclusiveevidence kept the case
unresolved, I guess.
Yeah, even though they werearrested and charged.
I mean, one thing I know aboutprosecutors is they don't charge
(09:39):
unless they're sure yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Yeah, they don't want to lose.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
I mean you've got to have a, but then again he left
it open to possibility of latercharges.
What I don't understand is whydo they have a special
prosecutor?
I don't know.
Special prosecutors only happenwhen.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Well, there's not that many murderers out here too
, True?
Speaker 3 (09:56):
That special prosecutor has a, that current
prosecutor has a, I guess you'dsay a connection.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Well, he might have had a conflict of interest as
far as maybe he didn't have time, maybe he's a volunteer half
the time or something like that.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
We don't know.
Not much happens out here.
That's what.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I mean, he may not have been on full-time payroll.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
And then he can't come in because he's got his
actual clients.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
In his private practice he's got to take take
care of.
That could happen too.
Not enough experience, I mean.
I don't want to fault anyone inCarroll County.
You guys do an amazing job, buthow many deaths do we have out
here that you know?
Do we investigate?
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Murders, anyway, Murders yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
So let's dive a little bit deeper into the court
proceedings and police reportsto understand what happened next
.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
So the court proceedings were complex.
It took unexpected turns andinitially the three suspects
were arrested in February 21after three years.
It took three years to even getthese guys.
They were charged withfirst-degree murder and cruelty.
The cruelty of the animals isjust like oh yeah, screw you,
(10:59):
buddy.
We're going to attack that ontwo, because it's what 30 days I
mean?
Come on.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Well, this is.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Arkansas.
You know, we do have thosestatutes and I think if
someone's like, I mean come on.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Well, this, this is Arkansas.
We do have those statutes and Ithink, if someone's like, I
mean think about it.
If you love dogs and you seethat this person hurt a dog,
then by God you're going to tackthat on too just because you
can't.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Well, it helps the jury too.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Yeah, during the pretrial phase, Joshua Anderson
initially agreed to testifyagainst him.
This testimony was crucial forthe prosecution, but in August
of 2022, he recanted histestimony which, like we said,
it changed the whole entireprosecutor's case.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Yeah, this change led the special prosecutor to
request a continuance, citingnew critical information that
had just come to light.
This was a significant momentbecause the prosecution's case
relied mostly on anderson'stestimony but why would you
recant either a?
Speaker 3 (11:52):
you're lying, as you think if I say this.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Maybe somebody wrote a check, maybe, who knows?
Speaker 3 (11:57):
get lesser charges or b.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Maybe he was threatened, maybe he was
conjoined into giving falsetestimony by the police.
That happens a lot.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
I don't want to think that that happens here.
I know it does, but it's likeman.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Sometimes it happens by accident with just an
inexperienced police person.
You know.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Yeah, that's why everybody know your Miranda
rights.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
The defense attorneys for the suspect argued that the
continuance was unjust and thatthe case should proceed as
planned, which I can understand.
That they emphasize the rightto a speedy trial, which that's
one of our.
That's a big thing that theyargue.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Nobody gets a speedy trial anymore Are you kidding me
.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Well, you got to understand.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Five years to prosecute a murder, I know, but
Always.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
They have to go through like what's called like
giving all the evidence andstuff like that.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
That takes time.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Discovery exactly so pretty much.
This led to a lot of delays.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yeah, and in February 23, right, the special
prosecutor filed a motion todismiss the charges completely,
which meant that the chargeswere going to be dropped but
could be refiled if new evidenceemerged and the prosecutor
decided the lack of sufficientevidence to proceed at that time
(13:14):
.
Sufficient evidence they hadenough to charge them.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
I guess witness testimony or the but if your
whole case is on witnesstestimony, I mean, is there not,
like I don't believe, anybody'scase?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
should be built on witness testimony.
I mean, is there not like Idon't believe anybody's case
should be built on witnesstestimony anymore?
No, it's always reliable,unreliable, yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Unreliable.
Is there not DNA evidence?
Is there not fingerprints?
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Is there not hair?
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Is there not fibers?
Speaker 2 (13:34):
I mean, so we're going off the police reports
here.
I mean we pulled them up andlooked at the police at the
court trial.
That's part of what we'requoting here.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
So the dismissal was obviously controversial and
pretty much made a lot of peoplein Eureka Springs upset.
The families of the suspects inthe community were all in a
state of uncertainty.
I mean we were all wonderinglike is justice ever going to be
achieved?
Are we safe?
Do we live?
Speaker 1 (14:00):
in a corrupt system which I hope to.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
God not.
The judge's decision to grant adismissal was based on the
prosecutor's affidavit thatsuggested the new evidence still
might come to light.
So the fact that they're justpretty much it's still open, it
makes me wonder what are youwaiting for?
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Well, the police report indicates that the crime
scene was particularly brutal.
Albert suffered multiple stabwounds in his dog and was killed
right.
So the scene suggested apersonal violent confrontation
rather than a random act.
So I guess it sounds likethere's a lot of evidence there
what happened to it.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
I mean, you know, with all these cases which I
think are kind of awesome in away, like the Delphi murders,
people were getting really theDelphi murders.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah, delphi, where murders people were getting
really the Delphi murders.
The Delphi, that guy chaseddown those two kids.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
Yeah, but remember how people were getting upset
because there wasn't a whole lotof they weren't telling them a
whole lot.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
I remember I was reading something about that.
Well, they're doing that onpurpose because they want to
catch the person.
They don't want to causeevidence or leakage or any
problems or anything you want tokeep.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Well, when you've got those people that want to admit
to murders they didn't reallyhave anything to do with.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
I don't think there's a lot of people that did that.
Yep Alright.
Despite the brutal brutality ofthe crime scene, forensic
evidence was limited.
How?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
No definitive DNA Evidence linked to suspects.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
How could there be no definitive DNA?
Speaker 3 (15:22):
I don't get that either.
I mean evidence linked tosuspects, If they stabbed them,
that much you know.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
They have their own wounds.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Yeah, your hand slips supposedly with a knife.
Yeah, but physical evidencecollected did not conclusively
point to any of the three men.
So what did you collect?
Speaker 2 (15:41):
I don't know.
It sounds like, maybe it didn't, I don't know.
The lack of conclusive evidence, though, has been obviously an
obstacle they're going to now.
I mean, maybe there's some newforensic technologies or that
could come through, or maybe thedoodle.
I'd like to know why herecanted.
(16:01):
I want to know that?
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Yeah, me too, because I mean we all watch these crime
shows people.
I mean everybody's watched.
Like what Dateline and what'sthat Law and Order or whatever?
Yeah, I mean no murder issolved in 30 minutes, guys, or
an hour.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
But you know like.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
I don't know, Some up bar.
I mean you walk in dude's deadWife's holding the gun.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Well, you walk in dude's dead Wife's holding the
gun.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Well, that's like you know.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
But it makes me wonder, because we're in a small
town, like other small towns.
Maybe was the scene securedproperly?
I don't want to default topolice because I live here and
my life looks like I'm knockingon the door.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
The problem that you're into is we don't know
what the place looked like thathe lived in.
He could have been living in adump with open air coming in
from like a hole in his roof orsomething, which would
completely wash away any DNA.
There could be 50 cats in there.
It could be cockroach ridden.
There's a whole lot of thingsthat could degrade evidence fast
(17:06):
especially water, If there waswater coming in then you're just
done, or luminol the place.
The water washed it all away.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
But I think you can luminol and still get something
can't you?
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Well, it depends, I mean, how old is the crime scene
?
Yeah, I mean, see what?
I mean?
We don't know these things thatwe don't know.
And because it's not likeFlorida, with Florida we can
pull up all the records of amurder and we can read it all.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
That's why I read Florida Florida man exists.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
because of that, Arkansas is tight.
That's why you don't hear a lotof true crime out of Arkansas.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Because the facts aren't released.
No one says anything.
That's true Because the factsaren't released, no one says
anything.
So what we have to do is whatwe've had to do is go over all
these different newspapers andTVs that have their.
They have to have a transcriptup for us to even look to see
what the TV station reported.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
I did call Arkansas State Police on this one.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
And they wouldn't talk to me.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Yeah, they're not going to.
It's the law that they can't.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
I mean, I'm not saying, like you know, let's.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
You have to call the prosecutor.
I think is who you have to call.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
I don't even know if they talk to us at all, I mean,
Buy him lunch one day.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
He's down there in Berryville, wear a short dress.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Oh Jesus, She'll talk to you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
What.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Just because I'm a Casa doesn't mean that I got
like that much.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
No, I'm just talking to your chick.
That's why, oh Jesus, paul,stop, obviously this murder has
affected.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Eureka, we're very much on tourism.
That's what keeps us alive.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
You know, we have very much mom and pop businesses
knowing that there's like amurder out there.
It kind of tends to make peopleon edge.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Yeah, you think so.
So there was vigils andmemorials were held.
I vaguely remember a few ofthose.
Like I said, I just moved here.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
So, basically, uncertainties lingered, but I
think as it's progressed now,there's not so much of that in
the air.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Yeah, it's been a long time, yeah, yeah, it's been
a long time, yeah, yeah.
So, as of today, what?
Speaker 3 (19:09):
As of today, it remains officially unsolved,
although the charges werebrought against Anderson Hannon
Helm.
The dismissal basically leavesmany questions unanswered and it
leaves the case completely open.
But they can be recharged.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Yeah.
So the key questions are whokilled Christopher Alvord and
why right, and what newinformation came to light that
changed the direction of thecase.
And what was Christopher Alvordinto?
A lot of the times you have todo victimology.
Sometimes Victimology comesinto a big deal right here,
because what caused him to be inthe situation that would get
(19:45):
him murdered?
A dispute, right, it could.
Could be drugs, it could beanything it could be.
They just hated him becausethere's people that hate me who
have no real reason to hate medrugs drugs are big around here.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Drugs are big everywhere, but meth is pretty
bad here um.
Somebody was mad at him yeah,yeah um, I, I would.
I want to say it's someone thatknows him or close to him or
knows his the idea of a he wasstabbed a lot that to me that's
personal yeah that's I mean.
(20:19):
I'm no expert guys, I'm I'mjust no.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
No, we're all.
Everybody listening here isjust as you know.
We're all armchair experts, butbut you do have a degree in
nursing yes, even though it'smore management, you still had
to become a nurse yeah and youalso have, uh, your um degree in
law yeah, my um.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
I guess you'd say certificate slash, almost
associates.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Yeah.
So, so you do know more thanyou let on.
Plus, you work.
I mean your credentials are.
You worked at the morgue.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
You worked for the coroner.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
To get through nursing school?
Yeah, I did.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah, that, and I was a nurse's assistant.
So yeah, my credentials are.
I just know a lot of reallycrazy people.
Wow, and that's actually quitehelpful because really I can
understand how bad they are.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
But I mean we try to, you know, look up um, basically
the autopsy report, all thatstuff is because it's still an
open case, which is why we can'tget.
Well, it's also arkansas that'strue, but to me that, if you're
not walking into, uh, where hewas, where he died, and
essentially it looks like a bird, you know, basically a
bloodbath, and to me that'spersonal.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Yeah, yeah, I mean.
So there's more to it than that.
I think there's just a lot oftimes out here in the woods
people aren't some I feel it Notsaying this about this case,
but sometimes people aren'tdeemed important enough to
investigate.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
I hope that's not the case.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
And it was in the past.
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
For sure, probably in the past.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
I hope we've evolved All the states evolved Well
that's how black people ended upjust random black people ended
up in jail for murdering a whitegirl.
Because they're not importantenough, and the guy that did it
is more important than this.
So, because they're notimportant enough and the guy
that did it is more importantthan this, so we just blame him,
this poor dude that didn't havean education.
Now he's in jail for the restof his life for doing something
he didn't even do, but his poorfamily though.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
They want answers.
I would want answers if I wasthem.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
I know, but I mean, what are you going to do?
The biggest thing is kind ofthe big takeaway from it is.
The big takeaway from it issometimes, as a citizen, we
can't do anything about it.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
No, but I just remember being very spooked.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Oh yeah, Well, I mean , he could have been one of the
banjo players.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
I doubt that.
What For all our audience?
I live a mile on a dirt road.
Okay, the road basically endsat my house.
And Paul thinks that this islike you know.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Deliverance?
No, it's not deliverance.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
He calls it glamping.
We're not glamping.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Yeah, even your kids said it was that way.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
It's not that bad.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
You told your kids I want to go camping.
They're like we are camping.
We live out in the woods, wehave air conditioning.
That's not camping, but we arewhat?
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Ten minutes from a grocery store?
Six Six so that is notdeliverance country.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
I don't know.
I don't know, I mean, you neverknow, you don't know where
those batteries are.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Well.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
You get Australia living down the road.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Yeah, but the guys this guy's I'm not going to bad
mouth him because for all I knowhe could be a listener, but
he's a very interestingindividual.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Well, he shoots coyotes all night long and he
doesn't wear clothes.
Yeah, the neighbor was like,that dude came up here just
wearing a loincloth and I waslike what are you doing?
Speaker 3 (23:44):
He closed clothes when he came up here.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yeah, well, yeah, comes up here.
Well, yeah, comes up here withno clothes.
He's going to be chasing birdsheds True.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
So if anybody has any , Listeners.
If anybody from Carroll CountyKnows anything about this case,
you're welcome to call theArkansas State Police or the
Carroll County Police officePolice.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Office?
I don't know.
It's the Sheriff's Department.
Sheriff's Department, you'rejust off today, aren't you?
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Oh no, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Eureka Springs.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
I would say go to Carroll County.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
I would say call the Arkansas State Police first.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
If you have any thoughts, saw anything, your
theories, whatever, this caseneeds help.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I've been gumpered.
There's really I'd like to knowa little bit more about it, but
there's really not much morebecause it's all freaking closed
up Most of the cases inArkansas when I tried to go find
some cold cases.
There's just no information.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
But if we do get new information, we can definitely
update our listeners.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Oh, that's true.
I suppose that's true.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
You could text them, because there's like six you
stall.
But we're back, guys, if youwant to just listen to us fight
or whatever we're doing, that'sokay too.
So one of the things that Iwanted to cover I wanted to
learn a little bit more aboutthe nuclear power, Nuclear,
(25:12):
nuclear nuclear.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Is it the one you were telling me?
How did George?
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Bush say that I can't remember.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
That it's small now, like it's not this gigantic.
It's not like you think, likeif Chernobyl or Three Mile
Island or whatever they'resmaller, now right?
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Yeah, and they can't melt down.
It's impossible for them tomelt down.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
I'm sure our environmental listeners are just
screaming in the background.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
no, Physics are physics.
Man Can't beat math.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
I know nothing about that, so I wouldn't mind
learning about that.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
That's the kind of stuff we're going to be talking
about in the future.
I know you wanted to do truecrime stuff, but I just like
arkansas is kind of neglectedwell the reason for it you can't
get anything out.
When I tried to get facts outof this thing and all I can get
was what the press put out there.
Because once the the pressfinds stuff out because people
have loose lips and it's justhappening in the press it asks
(26:02):
you know they ask, but when?
they, and they say somethingthey shouldn't, and that's the
only way they get theinformation.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
I guess what made me want to do cold cases is I'd
take my kids to my Calistro,oklahoma, to see their dad and
we're at a gas station I don'tremember where we were.
Weber Falls or something likethat and I'm looking at this
gigantic cork board of missingpeople from I-40 and I remember
being like I-40 and beingcompletely mind blown by that
(26:29):
yeah, and I'm just sitting well,and it was I brought you.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
It brought it to your attention because I'm standing
there looking at this board,going wow and these are young
people crazy around my kids,yeah, and I said come here, come
here, come here.
And we were looking at them.
I was like what?
And I remember there's like 15.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
One piece of advice my uncle gave me that was a
truck driver is you know drivingthose things about make sure
your car is in order?
And I remember him one timetelling me about you know, don't
pump gas at night.
And da, da, da, da, da.
But it makes me think.
Like my kids are going to go toand from college.
I mean my son's going to becoming up to visit and then it
(27:13):
makes my other kids going off tocollege.
It makes me like they have novoice anymore.
You're on a major highway.
They can just pick you up andyou're gone.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
I mean, it's it, just the board was overwhelming and
sad at the same time, and thento realize that I spent two
weeks living in my car inhuntington beach, california,
and you lived out of your car.
For how long?
Speaker 3 (27:29):
30 days.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah, in Michigan.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Yeah, not smart people.
Yeah, I could have been one ofthose statistics, me too.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Well, I was fortunate , the Orange County Sheriff guy
came by every two hours andchecked on me.
Nah he knocked on the windowand said you doing okay, yeah,
yeah, yeah, because it's LA.
Yeah, that said you doing okay,yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Because it's LA, yeah , yeah, so I don't know it.
Just I feel like people in thisstate need a little bit more of
a voice.
Even true crime podcasts don'ttypically cover Arkansas.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Well, again, we're going to have to figure
something out with the releaseof information, because they're
tight-lipped.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
The Railway Killer book I'm reading that would be
cool to talk about.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
I'd have to read it though.
Yeah, this isn't one from outof, which means I'd have to
actually read.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
This is from out of the 30s.
I don't want to read.
You can read.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
You can read it to me .
How about that?
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Oh Jesus.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
No.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Let's go to class.
Paul, I'm gonna read your book.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Oh, it reminds me of that Van Halen song oh, oh gosh,
I got it made, got it made, gotit made.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
I'm a all my trade publications and sit my teeth
till it is all done.
I think it's all fun.
I need to know everything whoand the what and the where.
(28:52):
I need everything.
Trust me, I hear what you'resaying, but I like it's new what
you're telling me.
I'm curious, george.
I hop in the Porsche Five and ahorse.
I'm ready for war.
I'm coming for ghosts, eternalghosts.
I need to know everything,everything.
I need to know everything who and the what and
the where.
I need everything.
Trust me, I hear what you'resaying, but I like it's new what
you're telling me.
I'm curious, george.
I hop in the Porsche five and ahorse.
I'm ready for war.
I'm coming for ghosts, eternalor ghosts.
I need to know everything.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
So welcome my name's Paul G, and this is Things I
Wanna Know with Andrea S, andreaS.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Yes, andrea S, andrea S yes.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Andrea S, andrea S, all right.
So we used to do a bunch ofinterviews and a bunch of cool
stuff, and you know what?
We wanted to change it up.
We like stories.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Yes, so that's what we're going to do.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
We're going to tell you a nice story about something
we wanted to know about howabout that.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Yes, from crime to espionage, to history, to
conspiracy theories, to whateverJust things we really want to
know.
And I've got to stay moreserious because me joking around
screws things up.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Not really.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
We all know how he is .
We've listened to our previouspodcast.
Sometimes I used to have afavorite.
Oh my God, paul stop.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, moving on, so I guess go ahead,
we're going to talk.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Start with the new things About a murder that
happened not long after I movedhere.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Though Eureka Springs , eureka Springs, eureka Springs
, arkansas.
Yeah, now that everybody in theentire world does where you
live, it's okay.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Eureka Springs is, no one's going to come to Arkansas
.
We do get tourists but no one'sgoing to find me.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Usually the banjos scare everybody off.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Not where I'm at.
It's not that bad.
He always says it is.
I live down, there's banjos andthere's like Bigfoot in the
forest or something like that.
It's not that bad.
We do have turkeys, though, anddeer.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
I just found, if you put some beef jerky, out for.
Bigfoot, and he'll leave youalone.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Well then.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Never mind.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Bigfoot.
If I found Bigfoot, I'd makesome money.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Big feet.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
I do have big feet, so there you go, I'm already
Bigfoot.
So this case, let's get started.
Eureka Springs V-Binance.
We're in the northwest cornerin Carroll County.
We're pretty much known for ourVictorian homes, our art, our
parades.
We have a parade every Saturdayfrom March all the way into
(02:18):
December.
Crescent Hotel for our ghosts.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Al.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Capone for the Basin Hotel.
He, he had his own room,believe it or not.
Really, yeah, he did.
You take the tour, you walk inthere and the very look to the
right I'm.
I'm dubious about that well,the tour's cool everybody has an
al capone room.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I mean the.
When did the man have time tomanage his mob if he's visiting?
Speaker 3 (02:39):
everywhere all the time.
Even the the mob's got to takea vacation.
That's funny.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
So, anyway, we're looking into the unsolved murder
of Christopher Alvord here inEureka Springs.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
It's a different case and it's got some weird things
and twists and turns.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
It's actually kind of crazy.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Yes, this case is not just about the crime itself but
the lingering questions thatsurround it, and there's few.
We'll walk you through thecrime, the investigation and the
various theories that areproposed over the years, and
there's several.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
So let's look at it just a little closer.
What do you think?
Speaker 3 (03:17):
Yes, let's go for it.
So, Alright, despite thislovely scene that we have in
Eureka very serene and relaxing-we're still working this out.
The town was shocked onFebruary 8th 2018, when this
Christopher Alvred was foundmurdered in his home.
His death has cast pretty mucha dark shadow over the community
(03:40):
and I remember when this casehit, because we just moved here
and I'm thinking I'm bringing mykids and I to this nice,
picturesque town and literallylike less than six months into
living here, somebody getsmurdered.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Right.
So Christopher Alvord.
He was a 37-year-old man livingwest of Eureka Springs,
arkansas.
Friends and family describedhim as a gentle and kind person
well-liked in the community.
Of course, they always say that, so we're going to go with it,
because we don't know anydifferent.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
So on February 8th 2018, carroll County Sheriff's
Office deputies responded to acall about an open door at the
Alvaret home.
Inside they found a gruesomescene and poor Alvaret and his
dog were brutally stabbed todeath.
I mean.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
They killed his dog.
I mean they killed his dog, Imean they didn't just stab him,
they killed, they stabbed thedog.
Why, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
I mean, the only thing I could think of is it's
horrible, don't stab a dog.
But Maybe the dog was attackingthem and they had no choice, or
making too much noise maybe.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
So the immediate reaction, though, was one of
shock and disbelief that such aviolent crime was unexpected to
be happening in this quiet town.
It's not that quiet, butwhatever and you know
everybody's like any town wasleft uneasy and fearful.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
We were there for a while.
I mean, they were telling usnot to have like the kids out at
night.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Like Eureka springs high school kids love to walk
around downtown I mean, if youguys have ever, you can look it
up on your phone.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
All the pedophiles now, oh jesus, what all right
but um, you know, it was just,things like that just don't
happen.
Yes, we always say that thingsjust don't, you know, they don't
happen here, but they do happenthey haven't everywhere.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
They've been for years.
The only thing that makes itdifferent now is that we
actually know about it, becausewe can all communicate to each
other.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
It was all over the newspaper, Our newspaper here in
Eureka.
It's maybe like five pages,it's not very big.
So the investigation startedwith a local law enforcement
obviously, and soon involved,obviously, into Arkansas State
Police.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
They worked diligently to collect evidence
and piece together what happened, but early on the evidence
suggested a struggle, becauseAlvord had multiple stab wounds
indicating a violent encounter.
The chaotic scene then showedthat he fought back, at least
Thank God.
Of course, this is allaccording to the, you know, the
news outlets that we've workedup, so can you imagine, though,
(06:09):
the crime scene of that?
It's gotta be bloody and gross.
I mean, does everything beat toshit?
Speaker 3 (06:15):
yeah, if you're stabbed to death.
It's like cast off spatter andall that other stuff.
I mean that's crazy.
So over the next few years, theinvestigation took many turns.
Obviously, on february 8th 2021, I say 21, this happened in 18,
three men were arrested inconnection to Alvarez's murder
Joshua Anderson, charles Hannaand Jason Helm.
(06:36):
I don't know why that name,jason Helm, sounds familiar to
me.
All the time.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
I mean, they do live around here.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
They were charged with first-degree murder and
animal cruelty.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
But, however, the case was far from resolved
because in February 2023, aspecial prosecutor requested
that the charges be dismissedwithout prejudice, allowing for
the possibility of futurecharges.
This came after new informationsignificantly impacted the case
(07:04):
.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
I don't think they're going to tell us, because,
whatever it is thatinvestigation, is that new info?
What?
Speaker 2 (07:10):
did he do stab himself?
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Well, think about it.
If you don't want to let it outto the public, you let it out
to the public.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
Well, yeah, you have to have that secret.
So when you find the person whoactually did it yeah, close to
the vest.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
So let's discuss some of these theories.
Like I told you, there's manyof them.
One theory is that the crimestemmed from a personal dispute,
which sometimes can just happen.
Alvred was known to be friendly, but could someone have a
grudge against him?
Speaker 2 (07:33):
And was he really friendly?
That's the question.
I mean, let's be open-mindedabout this.
You know the friends and familyin the community are not going
to talk ill about someone who'sdead.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
True, there is like that taboo thing about talking
about the dead.
You should never talk negativeabout the dead.
And so we're assuming thisbecause it's what they say,
because we've never met himpersonally obviously I wouldn't
live in here that long enough toreally get to know a whole lot
of people.
Speaker 2 (07:58):
So another theory suggests it might have been a
robbery gone wrong, but thelevel of violence used excessive
for a mere burglary.
And think about it, though weboth studied serial killers and
the psychology behind it.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
I wrote a paper on it in college, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
So we know that if they're just a robbery, they're
going to do what they can to getthe person person to stop,
leave them alone so they canescape and get the hell out of
there, or they're gonna killthem as quickly as possible
because if they don't, then theygot a problem but think about
(08:37):
it.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
I mean, we don't know what time that's happened.
We can speculate, I guess.
But this is at night.
Most burglars happen during theday, when people are at work,
right?
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
But if you think, I mean to me.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
We don't know what time it was they found him.
He was decomposing by the timethey found him.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
So I mean I'm thinking about it like that much
stab wounds to cause such abloody scene.
That's almost personal, I mean,it's just a guess.
So the suspects Anderson, hannaand Helm had various
connections to the crime.
Initially Anderson agreed totestify against Helm but later
recanted, which dramaticallychanged the evidence against
them.
So that's probably why thespecial person Part of it.
(09:16):
Yeah, yeah, I bet.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
So each suspect had alibis and they obviously delved
into their stories to figureout what they were doing, but
none provided a definite answer,definitive answer.
So the lack of conclusiveevidence kept the case
unresolved, I guess.
Yeah, even though they werearrested and charged.
I mean, one thing I know aboutprosecutors is they don't charge
(09:39):
unless they're sure yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Yeah, they don't want to lose.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
I mean you've got to have a, but then again he left
it open to possibility of latercharges.
What I don't understand is whydo they have a special
prosecutor?
I don't know.
Special prosecutors only happenwhen.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Well, there's not that many murderers out here too
, True?
Speaker 3 (09:56):
That special prosecutor has a, that current
prosecutor has a, I guess you'dsay a connection.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Well, he might have had a conflict of interest as
far as maybe he didn't have time, maybe he's a volunteer half
the time or something like that.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
We don't know.
Not much happens out here.
That's what.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I mean, he may not have been on full-time payroll.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
And then he can't come in because he's got his
actual clients.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
In his private practice he's got to take take
care of.
That could happen too.
Not enough experience, I mean.
I don't want to fault anyone inCarroll County.
You guys do an amazing job, buthow many deaths do we have out
here that you know?
Do we investigate?
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Murders, anyway, Murders yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
So let's dive a little bit deeper into the court
proceedings and police reportsto understand what happened next
.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
So the court proceedings were complex.
It took unexpected turns andinitially the three suspects
were arrested in February 21after three years.
It took three years to even getthese guys.
They were charged withfirst-degree murder and cruelty.
The cruelty of the animals isjust like oh yeah, screw you,
(10:59):
buddy.
We're going to attack that ontwo, because it's what 30 days I
mean?
Come on.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Well, this is.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Arkansas.
You know, we do have thosestatutes and I think if
someone's like, I mean come on.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
Well, this, this is Arkansas.
We do have those statutes and Ithink, if someone's like, I
mean think about it.
If you love dogs and you seethat this person hurt a dog,
then by God you're going to tackthat on too just because you
can't.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Well, it helps the jury too.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
Yeah, during the pretrial phase, Joshua Anderson
initially agreed to testifyagainst him.
This testimony was crucial forthe prosecution, but in August
of 2022, he recanted histestimony which, like we said,
it changed the whole entireprosecutor's case.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
Yeah, this change led the special prosecutor to
request a continuance, citingnew critical information that
had just come to light.
This was a significant momentbecause the prosecution's case
relied mostly on anderson'stestimony but why would you
recant either a?
Speaker 3 (11:52):
you're lying, as you think if I say this.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Maybe somebody wrote a check, maybe, who knows?
Speaker 3 (11:57):
get lesser charges or b.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Maybe he was threatened, maybe he was
conjoined into giving falsetestimony by the police.
That happens a lot.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
I don't want to think that that happens here.
I know it does, but it's likeman.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Sometimes it happens by accident with just an
inexperienced police person.
You know.
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Yeah, that's why everybody know your Miranda
rights.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
The defense attorneys for the suspect argued that the
continuance was unjust and thatthe case should proceed as
planned, which I can understand.
That they emphasize the rightto a speedy trial, which that's
one of our.
That's a big thing that theyargue.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Nobody gets a speedy trial anymore Are you kidding me
.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Well, you got to understand.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Five years to prosecute a murder, I know, but
Always.
Speaker 3 (12:40):
They have to go through like what's called like
giving all the evidence andstuff like that.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
That takes time.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
Discovery exactly so pretty much.
This led to a lot of delays.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yeah, and in February 23, right, the special
prosecutor filed a motion todismiss the charges completely,
which meant that the chargeswere going to be dropped but
could be refiled if new evidenceemerged and the prosecutor
decided the lack of sufficientevidence to proceed at that time
(13:14):
.
Sufficient evidence they hadenough to charge them.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
I guess witness testimony or the but if your
whole case is on witnesstestimony, I mean, is there not,
like I don't believe, anybody'scase?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
should be built on witness testimony.
I mean, is there not like Idon't believe anybody's case
should be built on witnesstestimony anymore?
No, it's always reliable,unreliable, yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Unreliable.
Is there not DNA evidence?
Is there not fingerprints?
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Is there not hair?
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Is there not fibers?
Speaker 2 (13:34):
I mean, so we're going off the police reports
here.
I mean we pulled them up andlooked at the police at the
court trial.
That's part of what we'requoting here.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
So the dismissal was obviously controversial and
pretty much made a lot of peoplein Eureka Springs upset.
The families of the suspects inthe community were all in a
state of uncertainty.
I mean we were all wonderinglike is justice ever going to be
achieved?
Are we safe?
Do we live?
Speaker 1 (14:00):
in a corrupt system which I hope to.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
God not.
The judge's decision to grant adismissal was based on the
prosecutor's affidavit thatsuggested the new evidence still
might come to light.
So the fact that they're justpretty much it's still open, it
makes me wonder what are youwaiting for?
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Well, the police report indicates that the crime
scene was particularly brutal.
Albert suffered multiple stabwounds in his dog and was killed
right.
So the scene suggested apersonal violent confrontation
rather than a random act.
So I guess it sounds likethere's a lot of evidence there
what happened to it.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
I mean, you know, with all these cases which I
think are kind of awesome in away, like the Delphi murders,
people were getting really theDelphi murders.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah, delphi, where murders people were getting
really the Delphi murders.
The Delphi, that guy chaseddown those two kids.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
Yeah, but remember how people were getting upset
because there wasn't a whole lotof they weren't telling them a
whole lot.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
I remember I was reading something about that.
Well, they're doing that onpurpose because they want to
catch the person.
They don't want to causeevidence or leakage or any
problems or anything you want tokeep.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Well, when you've got those people that want to admit
to murders they didn't reallyhave anything to do with.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
I don't think there's a lot of people that did that.
Yep Alright.
Despite the brutal brutality ofthe crime scene, forensic
evidence was limited.
How?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
No definitive DNA Evidence linked to suspects.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
How could there be no definitive DNA?
Speaker 3 (15:22):
I don't get that either.
I mean evidence linked tosuspects, If they stabbed them,
that much you know.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
They have their own wounds.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Yeah, your hand slips supposedly with a knife.
Yeah, but physical evidencecollected did not conclusively
point to any of the three men.
So what did you collect?
Speaker 2 (15:41):
I don't know.
It sounds like, maybe it didn't, I don't know.
The lack of conclusive evidence, though, has been obviously an
obstacle they're going to now.
I mean, maybe there's some newforensic technologies or that
could come through, or maybe thedoodle.
I'd like to know why herecanted.
(16:01):
I want to know that?
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Yeah, me too, because I mean we all watch these crime
shows people.
I mean everybody's watched.
Like what Dateline and what'sthat Law and Order or whatever?
Yeah, I mean no murder issolved in 30 minutes, guys, or
an hour.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
But you know like.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
I don't know, Some up bar.
I mean you walk in dude's deadWife's holding the gun.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Well, you walk in dude's dead Wife's holding the
gun.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Well, that's like you know.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
But it makes me wonder, because we're in a small
town, like other small towns.
Maybe was the scene securedproperly?
I don't want to default topolice because I live here and
my life looks like I'm knockingon the door.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
The problem that you're into is we don't know
what the place looked like thathe lived in.
He could have been living in adump with open air coming in
from like a hole in his roof orsomething, which would
completely wash away any DNA.
There could be 50 cats in there.
It could be cockroach ridden.
There's a whole lot of thingsthat could degrade evidence fast
(17:06):
especially water, If there waswater coming in then you're just
done, or luminol the place.
The water washed it all away.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
But I think you can luminol and still get something
can't you?
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Well, it depends, I mean, how old is the crime scene
?
Yeah, I mean, see what?
I mean?
We don't know these things thatwe don't know.
And because it's not likeFlorida, with Florida we can
pull up all the records of amurder and we can read it all.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
That's why I read Florida Florida man exists.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
because of that, Arkansas is tight.
That's why you don't hear a lotof true crime out of Arkansas.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Because the facts aren't released.
No one says anything.
That's true Because the factsaren't released, no one says
anything.
So what we have to do is whatwe've had to do is go over all
these different newspapers andTVs that have their.
They have to have a transcriptup for us to even look to see
what the TV station reported.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
I did call Arkansas State Police on this one.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
And they wouldn't talk to me.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Yeah, they're not going to.
It's the law that they can't.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
I mean, I'm not saying, like you know, let's.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
You have to call the prosecutor.
I think is who you have to call.
Speaker 3 (18:14):
I don't even know if they talk to us at all, I mean,
Buy him lunch one day.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
He's down there in Berryville, wear a short dress.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Oh Jesus, She'll talk to you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
What.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
Just because I'm a Casa doesn't mean that I got
like that much.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
No, I'm just talking to your chick.
That's why, oh Jesus, paul,stop, obviously this murder has
affected.
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Eureka, we're very much on tourism.
That's what keeps us alive.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
You know, we have very much mom and pop businesses
knowing that there's like amurder out there.
It kind of tends to make peopleon edge.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Yeah, you think so.
So there was vigils andmemorials were held.
I vaguely remember a few ofthose.
Like I said, I just moved here.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
So, basically, uncertainties lingered, but I
think as it's progressed now,there's not so much of that in
the air.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Yeah, it's been a long time, yeah, yeah, it's been
a long time, yeah, yeah.
So, as of today, what?
Speaker 3 (19:09):
As of today, it remains officially unsolved,
although the charges werebrought against Anderson Hannon
Helm.
The dismissal basically leavesmany questions unanswered and it
leaves the case completely open.
But they can be recharged.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Yeah.
So the key questions are whokilled Christopher Alvord and
why right, and what newinformation came to light that
changed the direction of thecase.
And what was Christopher Alvordinto?
A lot of the times you have todo victimology.
Sometimes Victimology comesinto a big deal right here,
because what caused him to be inthe situation that would get
(19:45):
him murdered?
A dispute, right, it could.
Could be drugs, it could beanything it could be.
They just hated him becausethere's people that hate me who
have no real reason to hate medrugs drugs are big around here.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Drugs are big everywhere, but meth is pretty
bad here um.
Somebody was mad at him yeah,yeah um, I, I would.
I want to say it's someone thatknows him or close to him or
knows his the idea of a he wasstabbed a lot that to me that's
personal yeah that's I mean.
(20:19):
I'm no expert guys, I'm I'mjust no.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
No, we're all.
Everybody listening here isjust as you know.
We're all armchair experts, butbut you do have a degree in
nursing yes, even though it'smore management, you still had
to become a nurse yeah and youalso have, uh, your um degree in
law yeah, my um.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
I guess you'd say certificate slash, almost
associates.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Yeah.
So, so you do know more thanyou let on.
Plus, you work.
I mean your credentials are.
You worked at the morgue.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
You worked for the coroner.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
To get through nursing school?
Yeah, I did.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah, that, and I was a nurse's assistant.
So yeah, my credentials are.
I just know a lot of reallycrazy people.
Wow, and that's actually quitehelpful because really I can
understand how bad they are.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
But I mean we try to, you know, look up um, basically
the autopsy report, all thatstuff is because it's still an
open case, which is why we can'tget.
Well, it's also arkansas that'strue, but to me that, if you're
not walking into, uh, where hewas, where he died, and
essentially it looks like a bird, you know, basically a
bloodbath, and to me that'spersonal.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Yeah, yeah, I mean.
So there's more to it than that.
I think there's just a lot oftimes out here in the woods
people aren't some I feel it Notsaying this about this case,
but sometimes people aren'tdeemed important enough to
investigate.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
I hope that's not the case.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
And it was in the past.
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3 (21:54):
For sure, probably in the past.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
I hope we've evolved All the states evolved Well
that's how black people ended upjust random black people ended
up in jail for murdering a whitegirl.
Because they're not importantenough, and the guy that did it
is more important than this.
So, because they're notimportant enough and the guy
that did it is more importantthan this, so we just blame him,
this poor dude that didn't havean education.
Now he's in jail for the restof his life for doing something
he didn't even do, but his poorfamily though.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
They want answers.
I would want answers if I wasthem.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
I know, but I mean, what are you going to do?
The biggest thing is kind ofthe big takeaway from it is.
The big takeaway from it issometimes, as a citizen, we
can't do anything about it.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
No, but I just remember being very spooked.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Oh yeah, Well, I mean , he could have been one of the
banjo players.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
I doubt that.
What For all our audience?
I live a mile on a dirt road.
Okay, the road basically endsat my house.
And Paul thinks that this islike you know.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Deliverance?
No, it's not deliverance.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
He calls it glamping.
We're not glamping.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Yeah, even your kids said it was that way.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
It's not that bad.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
You told your kids I want to go camping.
They're like we are camping.
We live out in the woods, wehave air conditioning.
That's not camping, but we arewhat?
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Ten minutes from a grocery store?
Six Six so that is notdeliverance country.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
I don't know.
I don't know, I mean, you neverknow, you don't know where
those batteries are.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
Well.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
You get Australia living down the road.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Yeah, but the guys this guy's I'm not going to bad
mouth him because for all I knowhe could be a listener, but
he's a very interestingindividual.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Well, he shoots coyotes all night long and he
doesn't wear clothes.
Yeah, the neighbor was like,that dude came up here just
wearing a loincloth and I waslike what are you doing?
Speaker 3 (23:44):
He closed clothes when he came up here.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Yeah, well, yeah, comes up here.
Well, yeah, comes up here withno clothes.
He's going to be chasing birdsheds True.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
So if anybody has any , Listeners.
If anybody from Carroll CountyKnows anything about this case,
you're welcome to call theArkansas State Police or the
Carroll County Police officePolice.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Office?
I don't know.
It's the Sheriff's Department.
Sheriff's Department, you'rejust off today, aren't you?
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Oh no, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Eureka Springs.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
I would say go to Carroll County.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
I would say call the Arkansas State Police first.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
If you have any thoughts, saw anything, your
theories, whatever, this caseneeds help.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
I've been gumpered.
There's really I'd like to knowa little bit more about it, but
there's really not much morebecause it's all freaking closed
up Most of the cases inArkansas when I tried to go find
some cold cases.
There's just no information.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
But if we do get new information, we can definitely
update our listeners.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
Oh, that's true.
I suppose that's true.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
You could text them, because there's like six you
stall.
But we're back, guys, if youwant to just listen to us fight
or whatever we're doing, that'sokay too.
So one of the things that Iwanted to cover I wanted to
learn a little bit more aboutthe nuclear power, Nuclear,
(25:12):
nuclear nuclear.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
Is it the one you were telling me?
How did George?
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Bush say that I can't remember.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
That it's small now, like it's not this gigantic.
It's not like you think, likeif Chernobyl or Three Mile
Island or whatever they'resmaller, now right?
Speaker 2 (25:25):
Yeah, and they can't melt down.
It's impossible for them tomelt down.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
I'm sure our environmental listeners are just
screaming in the background.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
no, Physics are physics.
Man Can't beat math.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
I know nothing about that, so I wouldn't mind
learning about that.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
That's the kind of stuff we're going to be talking
about in the future.
I know you wanted to do truecrime stuff, but I just like
arkansas is kind of neglectedwell the reason for it you can't
get anything out.
When I tried to get facts outof this thing and all I can get
was what the press put out there.
Because once the the pressfinds stuff out because people
have loose lips and it's justhappening in the press it asks
(26:02):
you know they ask, but when?
they, and they say somethingthey shouldn't, and that's the
only way they get theinformation.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
I guess what made me want to do cold cases is I'd
take my kids to my Calistro,oklahoma, to see their dad and
we're at a gas station I don'tremember where we were.
Weber Falls or something likethat and I'm looking at this
gigantic cork board of missingpeople from I-40 and I remember
being like I-40 and beingcompletely mind blown by that
(26:29):
yeah, and I'm just sitting well,and it was I brought you.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
It brought it to your attention because I'm standing
there looking at this board,going wow and these are young
people crazy around my kids,yeah, and I said come here, come
here, come here.
And we were looking at them.
I was like what?
And I remember there's like 15.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
One piece of advice my uncle gave me that was a
truck driver is you know drivingthose things about make sure
your car is in order?
And I remember him one timetelling me about you know, don't
pump gas at night.
And da, da, da, da, da.
But it makes me think.
Like my kids are going to go toand from college.
I mean my son's going to becoming up to visit and then it
(27:13):
makes my other kids going off tocollege.
It makes me like they have novoice anymore.
You're on a major highway.
They can just pick you up andyou're gone.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
I mean, it's it, just the board was overwhelming and
sad at the same time, and thento realize that I spent two
weeks living in my car inhuntington beach, california,
and you lived out of your car.
For how long?
Speaker 3 (27:29):
30 days.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah, in Michigan.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Yeah, not smart people.
Yeah, I could have been one ofthose statistics, me too.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Well, I was fortunate , the Orange County Sheriff guy
came by every two hours andchecked on me.
Nah he knocked on the windowand said you doing okay, yeah,
yeah, yeah, because it's LA.
Yeah, that said you doing okay,yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
Because it's LA, yeah , yeah, so I don't know it.
Just I feel like people in thisstate need a little bit more of
a voice.
Even true crime podcasts don'ttypically cover Arkansas.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
Well, again, we're going to have to figure
something out with the releaseof information, because they're
tight-lipped.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
The Railway Killer book I'm reading that would be
cool to talk about.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
I'd have to read it though.
Yeah, this isn't one from outof, which means I'd have to
actually read.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
This is from out of the 30s.
I don't want to read.
You can read.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
You can read it to me .
How about that?
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Oh Jesus.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
No.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Let's go to class.
Paul, I'm gonna read your book.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Oh, it reminds me of that Van Halen song oh, oh gosh,
I got it made, got it made, gotit made.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
I'm a all my trade publications and sit my teeth
till it is all done.
I think it's all fun.
I need to know everything whoand the what and the where.
(28:52):
I need everything.
Trust me, I hear what you'resaying, but I like it's new what
you're telling me.
I'm curious, george.
I hop in the Porsche Five and ahorse.
I'm ready for war.
I'm coming for ghosts, eternalghosts.
I need to know everything,everything.
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