October 30, 2025 • 34 mins
Established in 1995 by the Texas Legislature, TTI's Center for Ports and Waterways (CPW) provides valuable applied research and expertise to the Texas Marine Transportation System. Over the past 30 years, CPW's experts have helped public- and private-sector stakeholders improve the efficiency, safety, and cost-effectiveness of waterborne freight at all operational levels. Recently, TTI Senior Research Scientist Jim Kruse, who led the center for 23 years, announced his retirement from TTI. To succeed him as director, the Institute named Vince Mantero, formerly director of the Office of Ports and Waterways Planning in the U.S. Department of Transportation Maritime Administration. Mantero brings to the job more than 25 years of experience in maritime and freight policy, planning and program management. Allan sits down with the CPW's captains, past and present, to discuss the transition, the importance of waterborne freight in the twenty-first century, and what lies ahead in the area of waterways research. | See the related story on the change in leadership
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Episode Transcript
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Allan Rutter (00:14):
Howdy, everyone. Welcome to Thinking
Transportation.
Conversations about how we getourselves and the stuff we need
from one place to another.
I'm Allan Rutter with the TexasA&M Transportation Institute.
One quirk about the Englishlanguage is that one word can
have different meanings.
The word ship, as a verb, meansto send something somewhere
(00:38):
else.
As a noun, it means a vessellarger than a boat.
Port can mean one of thoseslots or openings on your
computer.
It can mean a dark red, sweetwine.
And it can mean a harbor whereships load and unload.
Today, we'll be talking to twoof my colleagues that know all
about ships and ports andfreight, as our Center for Ports
(01:02):
and Waterways is transitioningto new leadership.
So in 1995, the Texaslegislature created the Center
for Ports and Waterways at theTexas A&M Transportation
Institute to conductbenefits-oriented research for
the maritime industry.
For the past 23 years, thecenter, which we'll refer to as
(01:24):
CPW, has been led by Jim Kruse,who's been a frequent guest on
this podcast.
Effective September 8th, 2025,TTI has named Vince Mantero, the
new director of the center.
With more than 25 years ofexperience in maritime and
freight policy, planning andprogram management, Mantero
joins TTI from the U.S.
(01:44):
Department of TransportationMaritime Administration, where
he served as director of theOffice of Ports and Waterways
Planning.
So today we're pleased tocommemorate the passing of the
CPW baton by talking to both ofthese very impressive gentlemen.
Welcome to you both.
Jim Kruse (02:00):
Thank you.
It's a pleasure to be here.
Vince Mantero (02:02):
Thank you, Allan.
Pleasure.
Allan Rutter (02:04):
So to get started, let's talk a little bit about
how you came to be attracted tomaritime issues.
Jim, before you came to TTI,you had been a director of the
Port of Brownsville.
What was your journey into theworld of ports and ships?
Jim Kruse (02:18):
I tell people I came in through the back door.
I went to the Port ofBrownsville initially to be the
director of administration.
A few months after I started,the commission had a problem
with the port director and theyasked him to leave.
They came to me and said, Wouldyou be willing to try this
job as an interim CEO?
And I said, Sure, why not?
And six months later, they dida full search and named me the
(02:39):
permanent CEO of the Port ofBrownsville.
So I tell people I came inthrough the back door by doing
that.
But once I got started, I foundout it's just an interesting
industry.
So many things going on, peoplefrom all over the world.
There's never any shortage ofthings to study and learn about.
So it was very fascinating.
And when I left the port, I dida little bit of consulting work
for Foster Wheeler.
I tell people I was the portdirector and I wanted to go
(03:01):
straight, but that was too hard,so I became a consultant.
But once I finished theconsulting gig, I came to TTI,
and that's where I've been forthe last 23 years.
Allan Rutter (03:09):
So, Vince, what was your journey to waterborne
freight?
How'd you come to be part ofthe maritime administration?
Vince Mantero (03:16):
Yeah, thanks again, Allan.
I think Jim and I may have gonethrough the same back door,
maybe on a different side of thehouse.
But actually, my background is,I'm a city planner and I
started off in a transportationagency, regional transportation
agency, and started doingfreight planning there.
I think it's because no oneelse wanted to do it.
And I just really kind of fellin love with it.
(03:37):
I love the intermodal aspect ofit.
And then soon thereafter wentto the port of New York/ New
Jersey.
That's really when I got myfirst taste into maritime and
ports and just really loved it.
Ended up working as aconsultant, working on various
statewide freight plans andregional plans, and then went
(03:57):
back to federal service withFederal Highway Administration
and again on the intermodalside, what they would call
surface transportation.
Arguably, I would saywaterborne is surface as well.
But at Federal Highway, it waskind of just really on the
roadway, which was very valuableand very helpful.
But [maritime] came a callingand kind of went back to my
(04:19):
roots and spent about five yearsthere, led the Marine Highway
Program over there, did a numberof research studies, got to
interact with several portcolleagues I knew way back when
from the port authority days.
So, in some ways, I'm back homeand then coming over to TTI
was just the next logical step.
Allan Rutter (04:39):
So let's talk a little bit about why the
legislature created the center30 years ago.
With the recently permittedTexas Gulf Link deepwater port
off of Freeport, Texas has orwill have 12 deepwater ports
along the Texas coast.
Each of these ports is verydifferent in terms of activity,
types of ships, types ofcommodities, economic impact.
(05:03):
We'll talk a little bit aboutsome of those Texas ports to
help our listeners understandabout what port activity means
to the state.
Let's start by talking aboutTexas's two biggest ports in
terms of tonnage and activity,the Port of Houston and the Port
of Corpus Christi.
What's distinctive about thosetwo ports and how do they matter
(05:24):
to Texas?
Jim Kruse (05:25):
Well, the Port of Houston is a massive
conglomeration of marine-relatedbusinesses.
People think of the Port ofHouston as a port authority, but
in reality, it's 200 individualprivate corporations operating
on one ship channel.
And so it's a very busy place.
The Port of Houston actuallyhandles 70% of all container
traffic in the Gulf.
It all comes through Houston.
(05:46):
Plus, they are one of theworld's largest petrochemical
complexes.
So there's a lot of petroleumgoing through there, a lot of
petrochemical products, a lot ofintermediate things that move
on to another stage later on.
But the reason it's soimportant to Texas is because
oil is our backbone, has beenfor decades.
And the oil and petrochemicalindustry create a lot of jobs, a
lot of activity in the area.
And for the average " citizen,"you have the stuff coming in
(06:10):
through the containers that isvery important to the economy in
general.
People don't realize this, butthe leading importers of
containers in the United Statesare Walmart, Target, Toyota,
Home Depot.
So you're getting these thingsthrough areas like the Port of
Houston that allow you to buythings in the store that you
want to buy.
Then you go to Corpus Christi.
Corpus Christi is the nation'slargest exporter of petroleum.
(06:34):
They have built huge pipelinesdown to Corpus and they're just
moving stuff out faster.
They're having to expand fasterthan they plan to, but it's
working out real well for them.
Allan Rutter (06:43):
So those petrochemical products, it's as
much liquid petroleum and L&G, liquid natural gas.
It's the more raw productswhile Houston is more finished
chemical manufacturing.
Jim Kruse (06:58):
Well, it's interesting.
Houston handles all stages ofthe process.
But one of the things they'vebecome a center for is the
export of plastic resin pellets,which is what you use to make
anything out of plastic.
And so they have quite abusiness going there.
I think they're the nation'sleader in that area of exports
as well.
So it's interesting.
Allan Rutter (07:14):
Yeah, I think a lot of that has to do with the
Permian basin activity, thelarge amount of natural gas, and
the fact that there's so muchof it, it becomes less
expensive.
Natural gas becomes a feedstockfor that chemical process, and
it becomes a fuel for making theplants work.
Jim Kruse (07:32):
That's correct.
And we talk about LNG,liquefied natural gas, as a new
fuel that produces feweremissions than the traditional
diesel and oil.
Well, the area from Baton Rougedown to Corpus Christi is just
loaded with LNG exportfacilities.
And so it's a major industrynow in Texas.
Allan Rutter (07:50):
So Vince, tell us a little bit about Houston and
Corpus Christi.
Vince Mantero (07:54):
Well, Jim did such an incredible job in
summarizing...
I think the one thing that Iwould add, especially when it
comes to Corpus Christi, I thinka lot of people don't realize
is, the Maritime Administration,Department of Defense have
designated 17 seaports aroundthe country as strategic
seaports.
And these are really importantfor military deployment.
(08:16):
And Corpus Christi is one ofthem.
And I think when you look at itfrom not only the energy side,
from just basically the economicside, we can't forget the
importance of these ports,especially Corpus Christi, to
national defense and militarydeployment.
And that's kind of the perfectstorm of why these two ports are
(08:37):
so important for the economy,for energy, as well as national
defense.
Allan Rutter (08:43):
So when we talk about Houston-- one of the
things that the port will besure to talk about themselves as
the nation's largest port interms of tonnage-- Houston,
because of the businesses thatJim was talking about, all of
those aggregate together with anamazing amount of tonnage.
Talk a little bit aboutHouston's position within the
(09:04):
ports in the national network.
Jim Kruse (09:06):
Well, Houston is a leading port in foreign exports
in the country.
And it's interesting, peoplealways think about ports like
Los Angeles, Long Beach, and allthe trucks and all the press it
gets.
But in reality, if you puttogether Los Angeles, Long
Beach, and New York, you wouldstill have fewer vessel calls
than what we see in Houston inan average year.
The difference is a lot ofHouston's traffic is petroleum
(09:29):
and liquid product, which movesby pipeline.
So you don't see trucks justjamming up the entire area.
Whereas in Los Angeles, LongBeach, and New York, you have a
lot of containers which all haveto move by truck.
So it's a different type ofsystem.
Allan Rutter (09:40):
So it's land side, but most of it's buried.
Jim Kruse (09:43):
Yes, this is true.
Allan Rutter (09:46):
So Vince, when you were talking about the
importance of military activityin some of the ports, that's a
good segue into talking aboutsome of the other deep water
ports in the state.
Specifically, as we think aboutgoing from north to south,
Beaumont is also one of thosemilitary export ports, right?
Vince Mantero (10:05):
Yeah, so Beaumont and Port Arthur are the other
two strategic seaports.
So again, Texas has three outof 17.
So again, an emphasis on howimportant Texas ports are to our
national defense and readiness.
Allan Rutter (10:20):
What else is different about Beaumont and
Port Arthur?
Vince Mantero (10:24):
So I think one thing to emphasize with Beaumont
and Port Arthur beyond thestrategic seaports is similar a
little bit to I think maybeCorpus, is they also move a
great deal of refined petroleum,chemicals, even industrial
cargo.
Those are critical for Texasand the nation.
(10:44):
I think what's important forboth Beaumont and Port Arthur is
this kind of dual use formilitary mobility and commercial
trade, as hard enough as it isto run a port for the commercial
trade part of it, but then youadd the military component on
it.
And so they have a distinct setof uses that makes them very
different.
Allan Rutter (11:03):
Jim, anything to add?
Jim Kruse (11:05):
Beaumont actually handles more military cargo than
any other port in the country.
And so Beaumont is a key playerin the national defense for the
country.
Allan Rutter (11:14):
Yeah, so much of what happens on both Fort Bliss
and Fort Cavasos out of CentralTexas moves out of Beaumont.
Vince Mantero (11:22):
Yes.
Allan Rutter (11:23):
Let's also talk about Galveston and Freeport,
both very different ports, butunusual sorts of activity and
very unique within the Texasport network.
Jim Kruse (11:33):
Well, Galveston should be really considered as a
cruise port.
I mean, it has industrialactivity, but it is the nation's
fourth largest cruise port.
And it's growing.
It's actually moving up theladder.
So it's an incredibly busy areafor the cruise business.
When you move to Freeport,Freeport's claim to fame has
been traditionally bananaimports and then RORO, which is
(11:56):
roll-on-roll-off cargoes--trucks, tractors, cars, and so
forth.
And they've had quite a bit ofbusiness for some of the major
equipment manufacturers, as wellas people like Volkswagen and
regular cars, so to speak, forthe typical user.
Allan Rutter (12:10):
I think Freeport is also, as you had mentioned,
this liquefied natural gas.
They have a lot of that reallymajor manufacturing that's
happening there.
And that's one of those placeswhere a lot of the pipelines are
delivering that natural gaswhere it gets liquefied.
Jim Kruse (12:26):
Well, I should have mentioned it, but Dow Chemical
has a huge...
in fact, Freeport really is Dowin many respects.
But it has a huge facility downthere, and they do use the
port.
They're not on port property,but they use the port assets to
ship in and out.
Allan Rutter (12:40):
Vince, what else about Freeport and Galveston?
Vince Mantero (12:43):
The only thing I would add is also we hear a lot
lately about what we call themaritime industrial base, right?
So it's not just the ports, buteverything that goes into
making a port run-- could bemanufacturing, it could be
shipbuilding.
And we're starting to seeseveral of these ports kind of
going into that key part of themaritime industrial base.
(13:06):
Galveston is really into theship repair and again offshore
support operations.
So beyond just that portinfluence of the in-and - out of
the movement of cargo, thesupport facilities and the
support for the port environmentis absolutely critical.
And you're starting to seeseveral of these ports, whether
(13:27):
it's in Galveston or others,really begin to step up and know
their role there.
And I think that's one thingthat I would point out about
Galveston.
And obviously with Freeport, Ithink Freeport-- and Jim can
correct me-- is a great pressurevalve at times for Houston.
It can maybe absorb some ofthat growth.
It has its own strengths whenit comes to LNG, petrochemicals,
(13:49):
even containerized trade.
So I think they just balanceeach other really, really well.
Allan Rutter (13:54):
So one of the things that you had mentioned
there, Vince, was this maritimeindustrial base.
That gets me thinking aboutBrownsville.
The Port of Brownsville hastraditionally had an awful lot
of activity taking apart ships.
Let's talk a little bit aboutwhat happens at the Port of
Brownsville.
Jim Kruse (14:12):
Well, now you're back to my old stomping grounds.
Allan Rutter (14:15):
There you go.
That's your home base.
Jim Kruse (14:17):
There is a major ship builder there, Amfels, and
they've changed hands severaltimes.
So I'm not sure what theirlatest name is, but basically
it's Amfels.
And they build a lot of verydifficult to construct vessels.
They also work on offshoreequipment and so forth.
Brownsville is the nation'sleading shipbreaking port, and
there's a lot of stuff that goesdown there, a lot of old
military vessels and so forththat aren't needed anymore.
(14:38):
They take them down there andbreak them apart and sell the
stuff they break apart.
Allan Rutter (14:42):
So "shipbreaking" is the term that you used?
Jim Kruse (14:45):
Yes.
Allan Rutter (14:46):
I'm gonna have to make a note of that one.
That's that's good to that'sgood to keep in your pocket.
Jim Kruse (14:50):
Well, it's a major industry in Brownsville.
There are very large yards witha lot of people working on it.
So it's interesting.
Allan Rutter (14:56):
What about Brownsville takes advantage of
or serves the activity comingacross the border?
Is there port activity that'sborder related?
Jim Kruse (15:06):
Well, we used to say, and I guess they still say
today, that Brownsville isMexico's northernmost port.
I would say probably 90% ofBrownsville's business directly
relates to Mexico.
The steel trade is all relatedto the manufacturing complex in
Monterey and Saltiu in thatarea.
You have a lot of the jet fueland things like that doing
(15:28):
business with Pemex in Mexico.
But I guess it flows bothways...
but definitely it's Mexicanrelated, and most of the port's
clients are Mexican.
Allan Rutter (15:36):
So we've talked a little bit about when we were
talking about Houston, but let'scontrast Texas ports, the
entire sort of port complexacross the coast.
What role does it play withinthe national port system?
And then how do you contrastour Gulf Coast ports with those
on the east and west coast?
Vince Mantero (15:55):
So again, coming from my first really maritime
experience was at the Port ofNew York and New Jersey.
It was obviously ports such asLA and Long Beach and the Port
of New York/ New Jersey arecritical ports to the nation.
What's interesting with them isthat they're largely import
ports.
They have basically maybe athree to four to one ratio of
(16:17):
imports to exports.
The difference is the Texasports are largely exports.
And that's really what drivesthe economy.
And I've always kind of thoughtabout it that the coastal ports
and east and west coasts may bethe front door to international
trade, but the engine is reallyout of Texas.
And I think that's one thingthat really differentiates the
(16:39):
Texas ports-- especially thelarger ports in Houston and
Corpus Christi-- is that driveto export, which is very
different from other coastalports.
Jim Kruse (16:48):
We're talking about the amount of tonnage that ports
handle too.
Texas has three of the nation'stop 10 tonnage ports.
If you expand it to the top 20,we have five in Texas alone.
Texas handles more than 25% ofthe entire nation's marine
cargo.
And so it is a major, majorplayer on the national scene.
Allan Rutter (17:07):
Well, that shows the importance that, given how
much of that activity is Texasrelated, that's got to be have
something to do with thoseexports out of the Texas
economy.
It's not simply about Texasbeing a waste station of things
coming through us, although someof the export grains and other
kinds of products are, but it'salso exports that are
(17:29):
manufactured or added value inTexas.
Jim Kruse (17:32):
Especially when you're talking about petroleum
and the petrochemical types ofthings, that's started here and
quite often finished here.
It is a difference from otherports like Los Angeles, which
ships a large percentage ofother stuff into the interior of
the United States.
New York does the same sort ofthing into the Eastern Seaboard.
But in Houston, or the ports inTexas, typically handle stuff
(17:52):
produced in Texas that needs toget to the world market and
brings in stuff that Texasneeds, specifically Texas needs
from the world market.
Vince Mantero (17:59):
The only other thing that I would add to that
is that Texas ports are so wellpositioned, not only from what
we would call maybe the deepwater ports, but they're
connected to the waterway.
And so there's a direct marinehighway into our inland markets,
unlike maybe some of ourcoasts.
But even if you come in fromthe Midwestern states, you're
(18:23):
always going to be able to havedirect access on our marine
highways into our Texas ports,which really adds it and gives
it some added value to the wholeresiliency of not only the
marine system, but the entirefreight transportation system.
Allan Rutter (18:38):
Which is a good way to segue into the other name
of the Center for Ports andWaterways, which is waterways.
Tell our listeners about whatwe mean by that and what that
entails.
Navigable waterways-- are wetalking canals, rivers, all of
that stuff?
Jim, why don't you get usstarted talking about the
(18:58):
waterways part of the Center forPorts and Waterways?
Jim Kruse (19:02):
Well, I should back up one step and say when you're
talking about marinetransportation, you can
typically divide it into twolarge categories.
One is what we call "brownwater," which is the barge
traffic that moves down therivers and the Gulf Intracoastal
Waterway.
The rest of it is "blue water,"which is ocean- going-- goes
all over the globe.
When you talk about waterways,we're really trying to talk
(19:22):
about that brown watercomponent.
It's the barge traffic movingup and down the Mississippi
River, the Ohio River, the GulfIntracoastal Waterway.
So it's a major, major playerin the country.
And in fact, if you look atgrain exports, it's that
waterway system that makes ourfarmers competitive on the world
market.
They can get things down to theocean far cheaper than many
other countries can.
(19:48):
Vince, this is kinda your neck of the woods, where you just came from. Helpour guys understand a little
more about the role ofwaterways.
Vince Mantero (19:52):
Yeah, thanks for that.
It's uh again, I managed themarine highway program when I
was at the MaritimeAdministration.
And this has always been nearand dear to my heart.
It's...
Our view is always well, howcan we increase kind of usage of
our waterways?
And I think Jim hit on somegreat points in terms of the
(20:13):
importance of our waterways tokey commodities.
It could be agricultural,chemicals, energy, even
construction equipment.
And I think people sometimesforget that just one barge can
take 60 or 70 trucks off theroad; and try to imagine if
those barges went away, all ofthat would be on our roadways.
(20:33):
And I think it's one of thosethat's a bit out of sight, out
of mind at times.
And I think that's one thingthat when I was at the Maritime
Administration, and I know thatthe Center for Ports and
Waterways, when I was looking atTTI and I know it's Jim's work,
is making sure that is visible,the importance of these
waterways.
I kind of say that the portsare critical, but while they're
(20:58):
the gateways, the waterways arethe arteries.
And you need to have both towork properly.
The more we can not onlyencourage the visibility of our
waterways, but find ways toincrease the usage of our
waterways and help maybe takesome of these trucks off the
road, I think we're all a littlebit better.
Allan Rutter (21:17):
Yeah, I was just attending a supply chain agility
workshop that PTI held the pastcouple of days.
And some of the speakers weremaking the case about
agricultural exports and howgrain exporters out of the
United States compete with folksin Brazil or Ukraine in Europe.
And so much of the benefit orthe competitive advantage that
(21:39):
U.S.
agricultural has is thereliability, the relative low
cost of that transportation thatmakes U.S.
grains competitive on a worldmarketplace.
Vince Mantero (21:53):
That's exactly right.
I mean, you know, when peoplelook at our transportation
system on a map, they see allthe rails and roads, and then
there's these big blue linesthat no one ever really thinks
about.
But you have to think about itas part of our transportation
system.
And it is really, in many ways,an untapped resource.
Jim Kruse (22:12):
It's interesting.
I quite often think about thewaterways as being kind of like
the airline industry.
You never think about it untila plane crashes, and then
everybody thinks about it.
And it's kind of the same wayon the waterways.
Nobody even notices thewaterways until a ship hits a
barge and you got oil goingeverywhere and things go crazy.
Then they notice it.
But our job really is to try tomake the case that you should
notice it more.
(22:32):
It's making a difference inyour life.
And maintaining the system andmaking it work efficiently
really is important for thenation as a whole.
Allan Rutter (22:40):
Well, that's a good segue into another question
that I had is (22:42):
How do we help our listeners understand why
should maritime importantmatters matter to them?
What difference does it make totheir lives?
How important is maritimeactivity to normal folks in the
rest of the country?
Jim Kruse (22:59):
Well, I know it may change under the Trump
Administration if he has hisway, but in the past, if you
walked around your house, pick aroom in your house, and look at
where things are made that's inthat room, just pick them up
and see what the label says it'smade in.
Very few of them are made inthe U.S.
They came on a boat from someother country around the globe.
It could have been from Europe,could have been from China,
could have been from SouthAmerica, but it came from
(23:21):
somewhere else.
And if that system breaks down,you won't have that anymore.
And so it's really importantfor that system to work.
And we noticed during COVID howimportant it was because all of
a sudden people couldn't findthings in the store.
And they just went crazybecause when are we going to be
able to get it?
And nobody really knew becausethe system was broken at the
time.
I mean, you can see it inday-to-day life, and COVID kind
(23:42):
of highlighted that for us so wecould really see how important
it is.
Vince Mantero (23:46):
Yeah, I would add to that,
right, so for example this is what happened during COVID in, kind of, what is known as "the supply chain crisis." I think, asbeing in MARA at the time in
the Maritime Administration, Ithink it kind of bothered me a
lot for the picture of thesupply chain crisis to be seeing
all those container ships offports and ports being blamed.
(24:09):
And I think people began tohave a sense of well, it's not
just one part of it that goeswrong.
It's...
you have to look at the entiresupply chain, the entire freight
network.
And it could be because oftruck shortages, it could be
because of container shortages,it could be because of rail
issues.
So as Jim alluded to, sometimespeople realize and look at
(24:33):
ports when things may go bad,when they see those pictures of
container ships.
But I think when things movevery smoothly, they don't think
about them too much.
And our role is to tell thatstory and also help our partners
tell that story too, becausewhile we can only be as
effective as we can be, it'sthose that require that support
(24:56):
and also those that are hiring,those that are impacting the
economy, those that are directlyrelated to the importance of
our maritime industry.
And so we just need to continueto get that message out and not
just be a picture on a screenand realize everything that's
moving.
Jim Kruse (25:16):
I heard one time of a hearing on the West Coast about
a port expansion.
One woman stood up and said,Why do we have to keep expanding
these ports?
If I need something, I'll justgo down to Walmart and get it.
Well, what she doesn'tunderstand is, Walmart will have
nothing on the shelves if thatport doesn't expand.
And so it's very important toour daily life, our way of
living for these ports tooperate.
Allan Rutter (25:36):
Well, that makes a really good point.
Let's talk a little bit aboutthe transition at the Center for
Ports and Waterways.
Jim, what are some of thethings that you've been able to
do during your tenure thatyou're the most proud of?
Jim Kruse (25:49):
Well, there's a lot of interesting things that I've
done.
And what I like the most isthat a lot of what I've done has
actually been put to use.
It's not sitting on a shelfsomewhere.
People care about what it says.
And I like that.
For instance, we did a study ofthe chemical tanker traffic on
the Houston Ship Channel, andseveral large industries,
including Shell, picked that upand said, we've got to fix this
problem.
And they used that report toget the ball rolling in that
(26:12):
area.
We've done an analysis of whatit costs a port when you don't
keep it dredged properly.
And that also helped them getthe funding to get the dredging
done.
We've worked in the waterwaysindustry on locks and dams.
The whole infrastructure of theindustry is in peril right now.
It's not being maintained; it'sin bad shape.
A lot of things need to happen.
We've been able to documentthat, explain what happens when
(26:34):
you don't maintain it, what youneed to do to maintain it, and
so forth.
And so we've also looked at,for instance, like we did a Gulf
Intracoastal Waterway MasterPlan for the Texas Department of
Transportation.
And as a result of that plan,we noticed that the Brazos River
floodgates needed to be fixed.
And they noticed that as well.
And they took our report, wentto the Texas Transportation
(26:55):
Commission and the legislatureand got money to start working
on that Brazos River floodgates.
So the things that we're doingmake a difference.
That's a really good thing.
Allan Rutter (27:03):
That's a great point.
Vince, what about this jobattracted you to it?
And then, what are the kinds ofissues or opportunities that
you're going to be focusing onin your first couple of years
with TTI?
Vince Mantero (27:16):
Well, just listening to Jim for a few more
minutes kind of reinforces whythis job is so great.
You know, for me, when I wasthinking about this, I thought,
well, this is that position andthat next step in my career that
really kind of combineseverything I've always been
interested in, which is kind ofpolicy, planning, and
(27:37):
operations, and then researchall in one place.
And what's always impressed meabout the center is not only is
it great research, but it'sresearch that's being
implemented that people can takeand use, whether it's a public
agency, whether it's anoperator, whether it's a port.
It's not research for the sakeof research.
(27:59):
And I thought, well, this isthe next logical step in my
career.
Again, I knew so manycolleagues and my work at MARAD
and elsewhere from TTI.
I knew the capabilities, andthen I came to the realization
that there really is only oneCenter for Ports and Waterways
in this country.
And it is in TTI.
And I thought to myself, youknow, it's hard to say no.
(28:21):
I think it kind of combinedeverything that I was looking
for in my next career stuff.
Allan Rutter (28:27):
Talk a little bit about what you see as the
opportunities for maritimeresearch at TTI going forward.
Vince Mantero (28:35):
A lot of it is building on what Jim has already
done.
And I do think there's someother areas, and we've alluded
to them a few times.
There's a strong emphasis rightnow on the maritime industrial
base from an economicpersepective.
Especially, Texas is so wellpositioned.
There's a lot of talk now aboutkind of reinvigorating the
(28:55):
shipbuilding industry.
But I think that part of it isreally interesting to me.
The other part, and again, Ialluded to it, was this question
of where maritime fits intonational defense.
And a common theme, it's alittle bit out of sight, out of
mind.
But if you talk to theDepartment of Defense or
Department of Navy, they'll bethe first ones to tell you how
(29:17):
important our ports are and howimportant maritime is.
And so I'd like to look intothat a little bit, only because
I just think those are verytimely right now.
And ultimately, it's also howcan we think about this question
of resiliency?
Not only how to make ourmaritime network and ports
(29:39):
stronger, more resilient, buthow to leverage those ports and
our waterways during some ofthese man made or weather
related events.
Can they be used for, as Imentioned, either national
defense for evacuation, etcetera?
So I think there's some areasthat I'm very interested in.
But again, A lot of it is justbuilding on the great work that
(30:02):
Jim and the center have alreadydone.
Allan Rutter (30:04):
I could tell from our conversation today and from
working with both of you overthe years that you have plenty
of passion for makingtransportation better for both
practitioners and travelers.
What are some of the reasonsthat you show up for work every
day?
And of course, this is going tobe a looking back question for
Jim who retires at the end ofthe month.
But what is it that drives youto do this?
Jim Kruse (30:26):
Well, for me, it's two things.
One is I work with some reallyinteresting, competent, and
knowledgeable people.
And that makes any job funbecause you get to learn all the
time.
You're developing skills,you're seeing things you
wouldn't have seen otherwise.
It's a lot of fun.
The second reason is becausethe maritime industry, as I
stated earlier, is such abroad-ranging, varied
(30:47):
organization of things.
You meet people from all overthe world, you get different
types of equipment, differenttypes of processes, different
kinds of supply chains, just thevariety of things that you can
look into and the people youmeet and work with is just
astounding.
Allan Rutter (31:02):
Vince, what about you?
Vince Mantero (31:04):
Yeah, I would agree with Jim on the people.
And I am in a ...
I would say almost enviableposition because I'm getting to
meet so many new colleagues.
I knew many before, but kind ofthe untapped resources that I
have at my disposal is prettyamazing.
And the people that I've metand their expertise is really
(31:28):
jaw-dropping.
And I'm so excited to work withthem, getting to know them,
getting to build on what they'realready doing, and finding a
way to continue to push for thatmaritime part in everything
they do.
But I would also say that whatdrives me is I love the maritime
(31:52):
and ports field.
I just always have seen it as abit underrepresented in some of
the work that I've done before.
And I just think this is thetime to really put it on the
same level as when we talk aboutour roads and our rails and to
talk about maritime and ourports and our waterways in the
(32:15):
same vein, especially for thosekind of port communities, our
waterway communities.
I think our operators deservethat, our ports deserve that,
and our economy deserves that.
And they need to be on evenfooting with the rest of our
other modes.
I'm a strong believer in thatand continue to do that.
Jim Kruse (32:36):
The Center for Ports and Waterways has a very
good future in front of it.
I think Vince will do a greatjob with that.
Allan Rutter (32:41):
That's great.
Well, thanks, guys.
Thanks for being part of ourpodcast.
I appreciate it.
Jim Kruse (32:46):
You're welcome.
Vince Mantero (32:46):
Thank you, Allan, for putting this together.
Again, it's always a pleasureto be on any call with Jim.
And I know he won't be astranger at all...
E xcited to talk about thistogether.
Allan Rutter (32:57):
A point of personal privilege to close our
conversation today.
In my nearly 12 years at TTI,I've had the pleasure of working
with Jim Kruse on a number ofresearch projects.
And when we visited any Texasport, either the folks there
already know him, or they canquickly size him up as someone
who knows what he's talkingabout.
(33:18):
Traveling together all over thestate, I've had the chance to
get to know Jim and can affirmthat he is a genuinely good guy.
It's been my honor to be hiscolleague, and I and all of TTI
wish him fair winds andfollowing seas.
I know that Jim joins me inwelcoming Vince into his new
role, and we both look forwardto new horizons for the center
(33:40):
under his leadership.
Thanks for listening.
If you liked what you heard orlearned something, please take
just a minute to give us areview, subscribe, and share
this episode.
I invite you to join us nexttime for another conversation
about getting ourselves and thestuff we need from point A to
(34:01):
point B.
Thinking Transportation is aproduction of the Texas A&M
Transportation Institute, amember of The Texas A&M
University System.
The show is edited and producedby Chris Pourteau.
I'm your host, Allan Rutter.
Thanks again for joining us.
We'll see you next time.
Howdy, everyone. Welcome to Thinking
Transportation.
Conversations about how we getourselves and the stuff we need
from one place to another.
I'm Allan Rutter with the TexasA&M Transportation Institute.
One quirk about the Englishlanguage is that one word can
have different meanings.
The word ship, as a verb, meansto send something somewhere
(00:38):
else.
As a noun, it means a vessellarger than a boat.
Port can mean one of thoseslots or openings on your
computer.
It can mean a dark red, sweetwine.
And it can mean a harbor whereships load and unload.
Today, we'll be talking to twoof my colleagues that know all
about ships and ports andfreight, as our Center for Ports
(01:02):
and Waterways is transitioningto new leadership.
So in 1995, the Texaslegislature created the Center
for Ports and Waterways at theTexas A&M Transportation
Institute to conductbenefits-oriented research for
the maritime industry.
For the past 23 years, thecenter, which we'll refer to as
(01:24):
CPW, has been led by Jim Kruse,who's been a frequent guest on
this podcast.
Effective September 8th, 2025,TTI has named Vince Mantero, the
new director of the center.
With more than 25 years ofexperience in maritime and
freight policy, planning andprogram management, Mantero
joins TTI from the U.S.
(01:44):
Department of TransportationMaritime Administration, where
he served as director of theOffice of Ports and Waterways
Planning.
So today we're pleased tocommemorate the passing of the
CPW baton by talking to both ofthese very impressive gentlemen.
Welcome to you both.
Jim Kruse (02:00):
Thank you.
It's a pleasure to be here.
Vince Mantero (02:02):
Thank you, Allan.
Pleasure.
Allan Rutter (02:04):
So to get started, let's talk a little bit about
how you came to be attracted tomaritime issues.
Jim, before you came to TTI,you had been a director of the
Port of Brownsville.
What was your journey into theworld of ports and ships?
Jim Kruse (02:18):
I tell people I came in through the back door.
I went to the Port ofBrownsville initially to be the
director of administration.
A few months after I started,the commission had a problem
with the port director and theyasked him to leave.
They came to me and said, Wouldyou be willing to try this
job as an interim CEO?
And I said, Sure, why not?
And six months later, they dida full search and named me the
(02:39):
permanent CEO of the Port ofBrownsville.
So I tell people I came inthrough the back door by doing
that.
But once I got started, I foundout it's just an interesting
industry.
So many things going on, peoplefrom all over the world.
There's never any shortage ofthings to study and learn about.
So it was very fascinating.
And when I left the port, I dida little bit of consulting work
for Foster Wheeler.
I tell people I was the portdirector and I wanted to go
(03:01):
straight, but that was too hard,so I became a consultant.
But once I finished theconsulting gig, I came to TTI,
and that's where I've been forthe last 23 years.
Allan Rutter (03:09):
So, Vince, what was your journey to waterborne
freight?
How'd you come to be part ofthe maritime administration?
Vince Mantero (03:16):
Yeah, thanks again, Allan.
I think Jim and I may have gonethrough the same back door,
maybe on a different side of thehouse.
But actually, my background is,I'm a city planner and I
started off in a transportationagency, regional transportation
agency, and started doingfreight planning there.
I think it's because no oneelse wanted to do it.
And I just really kind of fellin love with it.
(03:37):
I love the intermodal aspect ofit.
And then soon thereafter wentto the port of New York/ New
Jersey.
That's really when I got myfirst taste into maritime and
ports and just really loved it.
Ended up working as aconsultant, working on various
statewide freight plans andregional plans, and then went
(03:57):
back to federal service withFederal Highway Administration
and again on the intermodalside, what they would call
surface transportation.
Arguably, I would saywaterborne is surface as well.
But at Federal Highway, it waskind of just really on the
roadway, which was very valuableand very helpful.
But [maritime] came a callingand kind of went back to my
(04:19):
roots and spent about five yearsthere, led the Marine Highway
Program over there, did a numberof research studies, got to
interact with several portcolleagues I knew way back when
from the port authority days.
So, in some ways, I'm back homeand then coming over to TTI
was just the next logical step.
Allan Rutter (04:39):
So let's talk a little bit about why the
legislature created the center30 years ago.
With the recently permittedTexas Gulf Link deepwater port
off of Freeport, Texas has orwill have 12 deepwater ports
along the Texas coast.
Each of these ports is verydifferent in terms of activity,
types of ships, types ofcommodities, economic impact.
(05:03):
We'll talk a little bit aboutsome of those Texas ports to
help our listeners understandabout what port activity means
to the state.
Let's start by talking aboutTexas's two biggest ports in
terms of tonnage and activity,the Port of Houston and the Port
of Corpus Christi.
What's distinctive about thosetwo ports and how do they matter
(05:24):
to Texas?
Jim Kruse (05:25):
Well, the Port of Houston is a massive
conglomeration of marine-relatedbusinesses.
People think of the Port ofHouston as a port authority, but
in reality, it's 200 individualprivate corporations operating
on one ship channel.
And so it's a very busy place.
The Port of Houston actuallyhandles 70% of all container
traffic in the Gulf.
It all comes through Houston.
(05:46):
Plus, they are one of theworld's largest petrochemical
complexes.
So there's a lot of petroleumgoing through there, a lot of
petrochemical products, a lot ofintermediate things that move
on to another stage later on.
But the reason it's soimportant to Texas is because
oil is our backbone, has beenfor decades.
And the oil and petrochemicalindustry create a lot of jobs, a
lot of activity in the area.
And for the average " citizen,"you have the stuff coming in
(06:10):
through the containers that isvery important to the economy in
general.
People don't realize this, butthe leading importers of
containers in the United Statesare Walmart, Target, Toyota,
Home Depot.
So you're getting these thingsthrough areas like the Port of
Houston that allow you to buythings in the store that you
want to buy.
Then you go to Corpus Christi.
Corpus Christi is the nation'slargest exporter of petroleum.
(06:34):
They have built huge pipelinesdown to Corpus and they're just
moving stuff out faster.
They're having to expand fasterthan they plan to, but it's
working out real well for them.
Allan Rutter (06:43):
So those petrochemical products, it's as
much liquid petroleum and L&G, liquid natural gas.
It's the more raw productswhile Houston is more finished
chemical manufacturing.
Jim Kruse (06:58):
Well, it's interesting.
Houston handles all stages ofthe process.
But one of the things they'vebecome a center for is the
export of plastic resin pellets,which is what you use to make
anything out of plastic.
And so they have quite abusiness going there.
I think they're the nation'sleader in that area of exports
as well.
So it's interesting.
Allan Rutter (07:14):
Yeah, I think a lot of that has to do with the
Permian basin activity, thelarge amount of natural gas, and
the fact that there's so muchof it, it becomes less
expensive.
Natural gas becomes a feedstockfor that chemical process, and
it becomes a fuel for making theplants work.
Jim Kruse (07:32):
That's correct.
And we talk about LNG,liquefied natural gas, as a new
fuel that produces feweremissions than the traditional
diesel and oil.
Well, the area from Baton Rougedown to Corpus Christi is just
loaded with LNG exportfacilities.
And so it's a major industrynow in Texas.
Allan Rutter (07:50):
So Vince, tell us a little bit about Houston and
Corpus Christi.
Vince Mantero (07:54):
Well, Jim did such an incredible job in
summarizing...
I think the one thing that Iwould add, especially when it
comes to Corpus Christi, I thinka lot of people don't realize
is, the Maritime Administration,Department of Defense have
designated 17 seaports aroundthe country as strategic
seaports.
And these are really importantfor military deployment.
(08:16):
And Corpus Christi is one ofthem.
And I think when you look at itfrom not only the energy side,
from just basically the economicside, we can't forget the
importance of these ports,especially Corpus Christi, to
national defense and militarydeployment.
And that's kind of the perfectstorm of why these two ports are
(08:37):
so important for the economy,for energy, as well as national
defense.
Allan Rutter (08:43):
So when we talk about Houston-- one of the
things that the port will besure to talk about themselves as
the nation's largest port interms of tonnage-- Houston,
because of the businesses thatJim was talking about, all of
those aggregate together with anamazing amount of tonnage.
Talk a little bit aboutHouston's position within the
(09:04):
ports in the national network.
Jim Kruse (09:06):
Well, Houston is a leading port in foreign exports
in the country.
And it's interesting, peoplealways think about ports like
Los Angeles, Long Beach, and allthe trucks and all the press it
gets.
But in reality, if you puttogether Los Angeles, Long
Beach, and New York, you wouldstill have fewer vessel calls
than what we see in Houston inan average year.
The difference is a lot ofHouston's traffic is petroleum
(09:29):
and liquid product, which movesby pipeline.
So you don't see trucks justjamming up the entire area.
Whereas in Los Angeles, LongBeach, and New York, you have a
lot of containers which all haveto move by truck.
So it's a different type ofsystem.
Allan Rutter (09:40):
So it's land side, but most of it's buried.
Jim Kruse (09:43):
Yes, this is true.
Allan Rutter (09:46):
So Vince, when you were talking about the
importance of military activityin some of the ports, that's a
good segue into talking aboutsome of the other deep water
ports in the state.
Specifically, as we think aboutgoing from north to south,
Beaumont is also one of thosemilitary export ports, right?
Vince Mantero (10:05):
Yeah, so Beaumont and Port Arthur are the other
two strategic seaports.
So again, Texas has three outof 17.
So again, an emphasis on howimportant Texas ports are to our
national defense and readiness.
Allan Rutter (10:20):
What else is different about Beaumont and
Port Arthur?
Vince Mantero (10:24):
So I think one thing to emphasize with Beaumont
and Port Arthur beyond thestrategic seaports is similar a
little bit to I think maybeCorpus, is they also move a
great deal of refined petroleum,chemicals, even industrial
cargo.
Those are critical for Texasand the nation.
(10:44):
I think what's important forboth Beaumont and Port Arthur is
this kind of dual use formilitary mobility and commercial
trade, as hard enough as it isto run a port for the commercial
trade part of it, but then youadd the military component on
it.
And so they have a distinct setof uses that makes them very
different.
Allan Rutter (11:03):
Jim, anything to add?
Jim Kruse (11:05):
Beaumont actually handles more military cargo than
any other port in the country.
And so Beaumont is a key playerin the national defense for the
country.
Allan Rutter (11:14):
Yeah, so much of what happens on both Fort Bliss
and Fort Cavasos out of CentralTexas moves out of Beaumont.
Vince Mantero (11:22):
Yes.
Allan Rutter (11:23):
Let's also talk about Galveston and Freeport,
both very different ports, butunusual sorts of activity and
very unique within the Texasport network.
Jim Kruse (11:33):
Well, Galveston should be really considered as a
cruise port.
I mean, it has industrialactivity, but it is the nation's
fourth largest cruise port.
And it's growing.
It's actually moving up theladder.
So it's an incredibly busy areafor the cruise business.
When you move to Freeport,Freeport's claim to fame has
been traditionally bananaimports and then RORO, which is
(11:56):
roll-on-roll-off cargoes--trucks, tractors, cars, and so
forth.
And they've had quite a bit ofbusiness for some of the major
equipment manufacturers, as wellas people like Volkswagen and
regular cars, so to speak, forthe typical user.
Allan Rutter (12:10):
I think Freeport is also, as you had mentioned,
this liquefied natural gas.
They have a lot of that reallymajor manufacturing that's
happening there.
And that's one of those placeswhere a lot of the pipelines are
delivering that natural gaswhere it gets liquefied.
Jim Kruse (12:26):
Well, I should have mentioned it, but Dow Chemical
has a huge...
in fact, Freeport really is Dowin many respects.
But it has a huge facility downthere, and they do use the
port.
They're not on port property,but they use the port assets to
ship in and out.
Allan Rutter (12:40):
Vince, what else about Freeport and Galveston?
Vince Mantero (12:43):
The only thing I would add is also we hear a lot
lately about what we call themaritime industrial base, right?
So it's not just the ports, buteverything that goes into
making a port run-- could bemanufacturing, it could be
shipbuilding.
And we're starting to seeseveral of these ports kind of
going into that key part of themaritime industrial base.
(13:06):
Galveston is really into theship repair and again offshore
support operations.
So beyond just that portinfluence of the in-and - out of
the movement of cargo, thesupport facilities and the
support for the port environmentis absolutely critical.
And you're starting to seeseveral of these ports, whether
(13:27):
it's in Galveston or others,really begin to step up and know
their role there.
And I think that's one thingthat I would point out about
Galveston.
And obviously with Freeport, Ithink Freeport-- and Jim can
correct me-- is a great pressurevalve at times for Houston.
It can maybe absorb some ofthat growth.
It has its own strengths whenit comes to LNG, petrochemicals,
(13:49):
even containerized trade.
So I think they just balanceeach other really, really well.
Allan Rutter (13:54):
So one of the things that you had mentioned
there, Vince, was this maritimeindustrial base.
That gets me thinking aboutBrownsville.
The Port of Brownsville hastraditionally had an awful lot
of activity taking apart ships.
Let's talk a little bit aboutwhat happens at the Port of
Brownsville.
Jim Kruse (14:12):
Well, now you're back to my old stomping grounds.
Allan Rutter (14:15):
There you go.
That's your home base.
Jim Kruse (14:17):
There is a major ship builder there, Amfels, and
they've changed hands severaltimes.
So I'm not sure what theirlatest name is, but basically
it's Amfels.
And they build a lot of verydifficult to construct vessels.
They also work on offshoreequipment and so forth.
Brownsville is the nation'sleading shipbreaking port, and
there's a lot of stuff that goesdown there, a lot of old
military vessels and so forththat aren't needed anymore.
(14:38):
They take them down there andbreak them apart and sell the
stuff they break apart.
Allan Rutter (14:42):
So "shipbreaking" is the term that you used?
Jim Kruse (14:45):
Yes.
Allan Rutter (14:46):
I'm gonna have to make a note of that one.
That's that's good to that'sgood to keep in your pocket.
Jim Kruse (14:50):
Well, it's a major industry in Brownsville.
There are very large yards witha lot of people working on it.
So it's interesting.
Allan Rutter (14:56):
What about Brownsville takes advantage of
or serves the activity comingacross the border?
Is there port activity that'sborder related?
Jim Kruse (15:06):
Well, we used to say, and I guess they still say
today, that Brownsville isMexico's northernmost port.
I would say probably 90% ofBrownsville's business directly
relates to Mexico.
The steel trade is all relatedto the manufacturing complex in
Monterey and Saltiu in thatarea.
You have a lot of the jet fueland things like that doing
(15:28):
business with Pemex in Mexico.
But I guess it flows bothways...
but definitely it's Mexicanrelated, and most of the port's
clients are Mexican.
Allan Rutter (15:36):
So we've talked a little bit about when we were
talking about Houston, but let'scontrast Texas ports, the
entire sort of port complexacross the coast.
What role does it play withinthe national port system?
And then how do you contrastour Gulf Coast ports with those
on the east and west coast?
Vince Mantero (15:55):
So again, coming from my first really maritime
experience was at the Port ofNew York and New Jersey.
It was obviously ports such asLA and Long Beach and the Port
of New York/ New Jersey arecritical ports to the nation.
What's interesting with them isthat they're largely import
ports.
They have basically maybe athree to four to one ratio of
(16:17):
imports to exports.
The difference is the Texasports are largely exports.
And that's really what drivesthe economy.
And I've always kind of thoughtabout it that the coastal ports
and east and west coasts may bethe front door to international
trade, but the engine is reallyout of Texas.
And I think that's one thingthat really differentiates the
(16:39):
Texas ports-- especially thelarger ports in Houston and
Corpus Christi-- is that driveto export, which is very
different from other coastalports.
Jim Kruse (16:48):
We're talking about the amount of tonnage that ports
handle too.
Texas has three of the nation'stop 10 tonnage ports.
If you expand it to the top 20,we have five in Texas alone.
Texas handles more than 25% ofthe entire nation's marine
cargo.
And so it is a major, majorplayer on the national scene.
Allan Rutter (17:07):
Well, that shows the importance that, given how
much of that activity is Texasrelated, that's got to be have
something to do with thoseexports out of the Texas
economy.
It's not simply about Texasbeing a waste station of things
coming through us, although someof the export grains and other
kinds of products are, but it'salso exports that are
(17:29):
manufactured or added value inTexas.
Jim Kruse (17:32):
Especially when you're talking about petroleum
and the petrochemical types ofthings, that's started here and
quite often finished here.
It is a difference from otherports like Los Angeles, which
ships a large percentage ofother stuff into the interior of
the United States.
New York does the same sort ofthing into the Eastern Seaboard.
But in Houston, or the ports inTexas, typically handle stuff
(17:52):
produced in Texas that needs toget to the world market and
brings in stuff that Texasneeds, specifically Texas needs
from the world market.
Vince Mantero (17:59):
The only other thing that I would add to that
is that Texas ports are so wellpositioned, not only from what
we would call maybe the deepwater ports, but they're
connected to the waterway.
And so there's a direct marinehighway into our inland markets,
unlike maybe some of ourcoasts.
But even if you come in fromthe Midwestern states, you're
(18:23):
always going to be able to havedirect access on our marine
highways into our Texas ports,which really adds it and gives
it some added value to the wholeresiliency of not only the
marine system, but the entirefreight transportation system.
Allan Rutter (18:38):
Which is a good way to segue into the other name
of the Center for Ports andWaterways, which is waterways.
Tell our listeners about whatwe mean by that and what that
entails.
Navigable waterways-- are wetalking canals, rivers, all of
that stuff?
Jim, why don't you get usstarted talking about the
(18:58):
waterways part of the Center forPorts and Waterways?
Jim Kruse (19:02):
Well, I should back up one step and say when you're
talking about marinetransportation, you can
typically divide it into twolarge categories.
One is what we call "brownwater," which is the barge
traffic that moves down therivers and the Gulf Intracoastal
Waterway.
The rest of it is "blue water,"which is ocean- going-- goes
all over the globe.
When you talk about waterways,we're really trying to talk
(19:22):
about that brown watercomponent.
It's the barge traffic movingup and down the Mississippi
River, the Ohio River, the GulfIntracoastal Waterway.
So it's a major, major playerin the country.
And in fact, if you look atgrain exports, it's that
waterway system that makes ourfarmers competitive on the world
market.
They can get things down to theocean far cheaper than many
other countries can.
(19:48):
Vince, this is kinda your neck of the woods, where you just came from. Helpour guys understand a little
more about the role ofwaterways.
Vince Mantero (19:52):
Yeah, thanks for that.
It's uh again, I managed themarine highway program when I
was at the MaritimeAdministration.
And this has always been nearand dear to my heart.
It's...
Our view is always well, howcan we increase kind of usage of
our waterways?
And I think Jim hit on somegreat points in terms of the
(20:13):
importance of our waterways tokey commodities.
It could be agricultural,chemicals, energy, even
construction equipment.
And I think people sometimesforget that just one barge can
take 60 or 70 trucks off theroad; and try to imagine if
those barges went away, all ofthat would be on our roadways.
(20:33):
And I think it's one of thosethat's a bit out of sight, out
of mind at times.
And I think that's one thingthat when I was at the Maritime
Administration, and I know thatthe Center for Ports and
Waterways, when I was looking atTTI and I know it's Jim's work,
is making sure that is visible,the importance of these
waterways.
I kind of say that the portsare critical, but while they're
(20:58):
the gateways, the waterways arethe arteries.
And you need to have both towork properly.
The more we can not onlyencourage the visibility of our
waterways, but find ways toincrease the usage of our
waterways and help maybe takesome of these trucks off the
road, I think we're all a littlebit better.
Allan Rutter (21:17):
Yeah, I was just attending a supply chain agility
workshop that PTI held the pastcouple of days.
And some of the speakers weremaking the case about
agricultural exports and howgrain exporters out of the
United States compete with folksin Brazil or Ukraine in Europe.
And so much of the benefit orthe competitive advantage that
(21:39):
U.S.
agricultural has is thereliability, the relative low
cost of that transportation thatmakes U.S.
grains competitive on a worldmarketplace.
Vince Mantero (21:53):
That's exactly right.
I mean, you know, when peoplelook at our transportation
system on a map, they see allthe rails and roads, and then
there's these big blue linesthat no one ever really thinks
about.
But you have to think about itas part of our transportation
system.
And it is really, in many ways,an untapped resource.
Jim Kruse (22:12):
It's interesting.
I quite often think about thewaterways as being kind of like
the airline industry.
You never think about it untila plane crashes, and then
everybody thinks about it.
And it's kind of the same wayon the waterways.
Nobody even notices thewaterways until a ship hits a
barge and you got oil goingeverywhere and things go crazy.
Then they notice it.
But our job really is to try tomake the case that you should
notice it more.
(22:32):
It's making a difference inyour life.
And maintaining the system andmaking it work efficiently
really is important for thenation as a whole.
Allan Rutter (22:40):
Well, that's a good segue into another question
that I had is (22:42):
How do we help our listeners understand why
should maritime importantmatters matter to them?
What difference does it make totheir lives?
How important is maritimeactivity to normal folks in the
rest of the country?
Jim Kruse (22:59):
Well, I know it may change under the Trump
Administration if he has hisway, but in the past, if you
walked around your house, pick aroom in your house, and look at
where things are made that's inthat room, just pick them up
and see what the label says it'smade in.
Very few of them are made inthe U.S.
They came on a boat from someother country around the globe.
It could have been from Europe,could have been from China,
could have been from SouthAmerica, but it came from
(23:21):
somewhere else.
And if that system breaks down,you won't have that anymore.
And so it's really importantfor that system to work.
And we noticed during COVID howimportant it was because all of
a sudden people couldn't findthings in the store.
And they just went crazybecause when are we going to be
able to get it?
And nobody really knew becausethe system was broken at the
time.
I mean, you can see it inday-to-day life, and COVID kind
(23:42):
of highlighted that for us so wecould really see how important
it is.
Vince Mantero (23:46):
Yeah, I would add to that,
right, so for example this is what happened during COVID in, kind of, what is known as "the supply chain crisis." I think, asbeing in MARA at the time in
the Maritime Administration, Ithink it kind of bothered me a
lot for the picture of thesupply chain crisis to be seeing
all those container ships offports and ports being blamed.
(24:09):
And I think people began tohave a sense of well, it's not
just one part of it that goeswrong.
It's...
you have to look at the entiresupply chain, the entire freight
network.
And it could be because oftruck shortages, it could be
because of container shortages,it could be because of rail
issues.
So as Jim alluded to, sometimespeople realize and look at
(24:33):
ports when things may go bad,when they see those pictures of
container ships.
But I think when things movevery smoothly, they don't think
about them too much.
And our role is to tell thatstory and also help our partners
tell that story too, becausewhile we can only be as
effective as we can be, it'sthose that require that support
(24:56):
and also those that are hiring,those that are impacting the
economy, those that are directlyrelated to the importance of
our maritime industry.
And so we just need to continueto get that message out and not
just be a picture on a screenand realize everything that's
moving.
Jim Kruse (25:16):
I heard one time of a hearing on the West Coast about
a port expansion.
One woman stood up and said,Why do we have to keep expanding
these ports?
If I need something, I'll justgo down to Walmart and get it.
Well, what she doesn'tunderstand is, Walmart will have
nothing on the shelves if thatport doesn't expand.
And so it's very important toour daily life, our way of
living for these ports tooperate.
Allan Rutter (25:36):
Well, that makes a really good point.
Let's talk a little bit aboutthe transition at the Center for
Ports and Waterways.
Jim, what are some of thethings that you've been able to
do during your tenure thatyou're the most proud of?
Jim Kruse (25:49):
Well, there's a lot of interesting things that I've
done.
And what I like the most isthat a lot of what I've done has
actually been put to use.
It's not sitting on a shelfsomewhere.
People care about what it says.
And I like that.
For instance, we did a study ofthe chemical tanker traffic on
the Houston Ship Channel, andseveral large industries,
including Shell, picked that upand said, we've got to fix this
problem.
And they used that report toget the ball rolling in that
(26:12):
area.
We've done an analysis of whatit costs a port when you don't
keep it dredged properly.
And that also helped them getthe funding to get the dredging
done.
We've worked in the waterwaysindustry on locks and dams.
The whole infrastructure of theindustry is in peril right now.
It's not being maintained; it'sin bad shape.
A lot of things need to happen.
We've been able to documentthat, explain what happens when
(26:34):
you don't maintain it, what youneed to do to maintain it, and
so forth.
And so we've also looked at,for instance, like we did a Gulf
Intracoastal Waterway MasterPlan for the Texas Department of
Transportation.
And as a result of that plan,we noticed that the Brazos River
floodgates needed to be fixed.
And they noticed that as well.
And they took our report, wentto the Texas Transportation
(26:55):
Commission and the legislatureand got money to start working
on that Brazos River floodgates.
So the things that we're doingmake a difference.
That's a really good thing.
Allan Rutter (27:03):
That's a great point.
Vince, what about this jobattracted you to it?
And then, what are the kinds ofissues or opportunities that
you're going to be focusing onin your first couple of years
with TTI?
Vince Mantero (27:16):
Well, just listening to Jim for a few more
minutes kind of reinforces whythis job is so great.
You know, for me, when I wasthinking about this, I thought,
well, this is that position andthat next step in my career that
really kind of combineseverything I've always been
interested in, which is kind ofpolicy, planning, and
(27:37):
operations, and then researchall in one place.
And what's always impressed meabout the center is not only is
it great research, but it'sresearch that's being
implemented that people can takeand use, whether it's a public
agency, whether it's anoperator, whether it's a port.
It's not research for the sakeof research.
(27:59):
And I thought, well, this isthe next logical step in my
career.
Again, I knew so manycolleagues and my work at MARAD
and elsewhere from TTI.
I knew the capabilities, andthen I came to the realization
that there really is only oneCenter for Ports and Waterways
in this country.
And it is in TTI.
And I thought to myself, youknow, it's hard to say no.
(28:21):
I think it kind of combinedeverything that I was looking
for in my next career stuff.
Allan Rutter (28:27):
Talk a little bit about what you see as the
opportunities for maritimeresearch at TTI going forward.
Vince Mantero (28:35):
A lot of it is building on what Jim has already
done.
And I do think there's someother areas, and we've alluded
to them a few times.
There's a strong emphasis rightnow on the maritime industrial
base from an economicpersepective.
Especially, Texas is so wellpositioned.
There's a lot of talk now aboutkind of reinvigorating the
(28:55):
shipbuilding industry.
But I think that part of it isreally interesting to me.
The other part, and again, Ialluded to it, was this question
of where maritime fits intonational defense.
And a common theme, it's alittle bit out of sight, out of
mind.
But if you talk to theDepartment of Defense or
Department of Navy, they'll bethe first ones to tell you how
(29:17):
important our ports are and howimportant maritime is.
And so I'd like to look intothat a little bit, only because
I just think those are verytimely right now.
And ultimately, it's also howcan we think about this question
of resiliency?
Not only how to make ourmaritime network and ports
(29:39):
stronger, more resilient, buthow to leverage those ports and
our waterways during some ofthese man made or weather
related events.
Can they be used for, as Imentioned, either national
defense for evacuation, etcetera?
So I think there's some areasthat I'm very interested in.
But again, A lot of it is justbuilding on the great work that
(30:02):
Jim and the center have alreadydone.
Allan Rutter (30:04):
I could tell from our conversation today and from
working with both of you overthe years that you have plenty
of passion for makingtransportation better for both
practitioners and travelers.
What are some of the reasonsthat you show up for work every
day?
And of course, this is going tobe a looking back question for
Jim who retires at the end ofthe month.
But what is it that drives youto do this?
Jim Kruse (30:26):
Well, for me, it's two things.
One is I work with some reallyinteresting, competent, and
knowledgeable people.
And that makes any job funbecause you get to learn all the
time.
You're developing skills,you're seeing things you
wouldn't have seen otherwise.
It's a lot of fun.
The second reason is becausethe maritime industry, as I
stated earlier, is such abroad-ranging, varied
(30:47):
organization of things.
You meet people from all overthe world, you get different
types of equipment, differenttypes of processes, different
kinds of supply chains, just thevariety of things that you can
look into and the people youmeet and work with is just
astounding.
Allan Rutter (31:02):
Vince, what about you?
Vince Mantero (31:04):
Yeah, I would agree with Jim on the people.
And I am in a ...
I would say almost enviableposition because I'm getting to
meet so many new colleagues.
I knew many before, but kind ofthe untapped resources that I
have at my disposal is prettyamazing.
And the people that I've metand their expertise is really
(31:28):
jaw-dropping.
And I'm so excited to work withthem, getting to know them,
getting to build on what they'realready doing, and finding a
way to continue to push for thatmaritime part in everything
they do.
But I would also say that whatdrives me is I love the maritime
(31:52):
and ports field.
I just always have seen it as abit underrepresented in some of
the work that I've done before.
And I just think this is thetime to really put it on the
same level as when we talk aboutour roads and our rails and to
talk about maritime and ourports and our waterways in the
(32:15):
same vein, especially for thosekind of port communities, our
waterway communities.
I think our operators deservethat, our ports deserve that,
and our economy deserves that.
And they need to be on evenfooting with the rest of our
other modes.
I'm a strong believer in thatand continue to do that.
Jim Kruse (32:36):
The Center for Ports and Waterways has a very
good future in front of it.
I think Vince will do a greatjob with that.
Allan Rutter (32:41):
That's great.
Well, thanks, guys.
Thanks for being part of ourpodcast.
I appreciate it.
Jim Kruse (32:46):
You're welcome.
Vince Mantero (32:46):
Thank you, Allan, for putting this together.
Again, it's always a pleasureto be on any call with Jim.
And I know he won't be astranger at all...
E xcited to talk about thistogether.
Allan Rutter (32:57):
A point of personal privilege to close our
conversation today.
In my nearly 12 years at TTI,I've had the pleasure of working
with Jim Kruse on a number ofresearch projects.
And when we visited any Texasport, either the folks there
already know him, or they canquickly size him up as someone
who knows what he's talkingabout.
(33:18):
Traveling together all over thestate, I've had the chance to
get to know Jim and can affirmthat he is a genuinely good guy.
It's been my honor to be hiscolleague, and I and all of TTI
wish him fair winds andfollowing seas.
I know that Jim joins me inwelcoming Vince into his new
role, and we both look forwardto new horizons for the center
(33:40):
under his leadership.
Thanks for listening.
If you liked what you heard orlearned something, please take
just a minute to give us areview, subscribe, and share
this episode.
I invite you to join us nexttime for another conversation
about getting ourselves and thestuff we need from point A to
(34:01):
point B.
Thinking Transportation is aproduction of the Texas A&M
Transportation Institute, amember of The Texas A&M
University System.
The show is edited and producedby Chris Pourteau.
I'm your host, Allan Rutter.
Thanks again for joining us.
We'll see you next time.
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