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July 19, 2025 66 mins

What happens when the body holds what the family hides?

In this gut-punch of an episode, I sit down with the brilliant and brave Katie Delimon, who takes us deep into her lived experience of alcoholism, dissociation, and the unspoken legacy of family secrets. From pouring drinks to numb the noise, to peeling back the layers of protection her body built just to survive—this is a story of reckoning, remembering, and reclaiming!

We talk about:

– Using alcohol to escape a reality that never felt safe

– The power of dissociation as a coping mechanism

– What happens when your body finally says enough

– The role of somatic healing in finally coming home to yourself

This one’s raw. It’s real. And it’s a reminder that the truth doesn’t destroy you—it frees you.

Thanks @KatieDelimon for sharing the frames that have forged you! Check out the “Honest Healing Podcast” 

Ready to save ENOUGH and do the healing? Enquire ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠HERE⁠⁠

Or check out my website: ⁠⁠www.veronicajayne.com⁠⁠ and Instagram: ⁠⁠@veronicajayne_⁠⁠

🎥 Find me at ⁠⁠@veronicajayne⁠

~ In love and learning, Veronica Jayne


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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
And people were like, oh, well, I don't remember.
It's like, it's OK that you don't remember.
You don't have to. Like, you don't have to remember
to heal. Like I didn't remember that.
Somebody told me my biological father was not the man who
raised me. But like, I obviously healed
enough. So when I received it, it didn't
break me. Ready to ditch the old stories

(00:21):
and limiting beliefs and step into your embodied knowing?
I'm Veronica Jane, your fierce, fiery, and deeply compassionate
embodiment, empowerment, and relationships coach and mentor,
and this is This Isn't Me podcast.
Welcome to another episode of This Isn't Me podcast.
I am Veronica Jane, and today I have Katie here.
Katie's gonna introduce herself and tell us who she is and what

(00:43):
she's about, and then we'll havea chat.
Hi, Katie. Awesome.
Thank you, Veronica. Well, my name is Katie Delmon.
I am an author of Trust the Flames, my first memoir.
I'm currently working on my second book, but we can get into
that all of. That you said films like there's
gonna be AIC ten in a row. Yeah, absolutely inspiration.
And we'll get to that later, I'msure.

(01:04):
But when you were telling me about your book, I was like, if
she can read them or I'm a read like I've wanted to and felt so
self entitled in like I'm like, I know I have such a story to
tell. So I'm excited to hear about how
you got yourself to the point ofcreating the book as well.
Yeah, yeah. And and look, if I can do it,
literally anybody can. I'm serious.
Like I didn't have an agent. I don't have a publisher.

(01:25):
I did it all myself. It took me 4 years.
I Youtubed a lot, I Googled a lot.
Like I taught myself how to do it.
So if I could do it, literally anybody can.
And I thought you had to have like an English major in order
to be able to be a writer. I didn't realize there's people
that help you do all this stuff.But anyways, yeah, I'll get.

(01:46):
To that later, yes, yes, I'm like a, I'm like a rabbit hole
wormhole person. We'll go off in many tangents
and come back around. So anyway, back to you.
That's all good. Love it.
So yeah, that's my first book. So I'm an author and also a
somatic coach, and I've been teaching yoga and meditation for
the past decade. I do Reiki healing and I host

(02:07):
Wellness retreats, but that's just little stuff on the side.
Yeah. And so right now my I'm focusing
on writing that second book and semantic coaching.
That's awesome. Well, I love that you're one of
the people that I found on the interwebs.
I love when the interwebs bringsme people and people to me.
I'm like, yay, like I saw your page and it was interesting
because obviously when I hear your accent, I'm like, hey,

(02:28):
she's from the same continent that I was from.
But then you lived in the same Australian city that I did.
And I was like, the algorithm isdoing its thing.
So it was fun to go and catch upand have tea and hear a bit
about your life and hear your story.
And I'd love for the people you're listening to get to hear
a bit of your story and then they can buy your book to hear
all of it. But tell me a bit about, like,
what got you into somatic work and what got you into doing what

(02:48):
you do now? And yeah, tell us your journey
of like, what wasn't, wasn't youthat you got to discover along
the way. Yeah, well, when you first told
me about your podcast, I was like, there is actually a part
in my book that speaks directly to this.
So I'll just say the part of thebook and then it would give you
an idea of all the parts I sort of left behind.

(03:10):
So I thought I wanted to. OK, sorry.
There was a lot that I had to burn off.
I thought that I wanted to be a stylish part of the fashion
world. I envisioned myself being the
single Carrie Bradshaw in New York City.
I believed that I was the fun girl who was always down to
party. I wish to be that super healthy
California girl and I pinned to be a dedicated monk like

(03:33):
community member and I was convinced I was going to be a
nomadic world traveler. Yet quite the contrary, what I
wanted most was a place to call home, truly my home.
And so that is kind of a overview of all the little parts
of me that I used to be. I used to live in New York City.

(03:53):
I was a party girl. I and I was part of the fashion
world, hence the faux fur. But now I literally am like a
minimalist and I own like no clothes.
I moved to California thinking that was like the lifestyle that
I wanted to be in. That's.
About a common American myth because I know as Canadians,

(04:14):
like we look at California as like, oh, once you've like once
you're seeking internal peace, you go from the East Coast to
the West Coast. And yet it seems like it's such
a fucking hectic shit show theretoo, right?
Like there's two vibes of California, right?
It's this whole Hollywood pop culture world.
And then there's this whole likegreen smoothie yoga space.
And maybe they overlap, but I'm curious about what your

(04:36):
experience was. What?
It is much of A it's a healthierlifestyle in California for
sure. Like in New York City, I was
doing like bottomless brunches every Sunday and you know, every
day of the week going to happy hours and bars in New York, in
the in California and LA, like literally you go on a hike and
you have like a really. Healthy shot instead of Ivanka
shot. Yeah, it is very typical.

(04:58):
So like it is a much healthier lifestyle, the sunshine being
outside, being a block off the beach.
So it wasn't that sense, but it wasn't really like I never found
my feet there. So I was there for like 2 1/2
years and I ended up going and living in an ashram.
So another little eat pray love moment.
I. Didn't get you doing something

(05:20):
weird? Then you didn't read it.
Yeah, and so, but there another part of my story is I was
invited to Burning Man with an ex who I thought was like my
soul mate. He we, he cheated on me six
years prior. Your soul mate then.
Yes, of course. I mean, I was like, this is my

(05:40):
chance. We're finally going to be
together. With your twin flame.
He was, I thought, I need. To stay in this trauma bond
because it's karmic. Exactly.
Well, I ended up falling in lovewith his friends at Burning Man
and we ended up marrying 3 months later in Vegas.
So we eloped and that was 10 years ago and I'm actually going

(06:04):
back to Burning Man with my now hubby and full circle.
So that's another big. And I do call my my hubby my
twin flame now because we we still trauma bond.
I mean, let's be honest, like. Maybe that's what we're all
doing in love in in a less intense way is like slowly
unraveling each other's internalcore wounds, right?

(06:24):
And that's what love is offers this beautiful safe space to
keep bringing stuff up and repairing and bringing stuff up
and repairing. So rather than recreating the
trauma, you're undoing the trauma, right?
Well, that's exactly it. And I believe that
wholeheartedly that you will attract people to help you heal
and to help you show a mirror toyou know those parts of you your
shadow work. And Speaking of it isn't me.

(06:49):
I recently this is a whole nother little.
This is what the second book is going to be about.
South 6-8 months ago I did an ancestry.com test for fun with
my husband for Christmas and I found out that the man who
raised me is not my biological father.
Drop the mic. So this isn't me really became

(07:10):
an identity shift. So I thought I was Polish. 50%
Polish my whole life. I have no Polish in me.
What's? That fur like you're you're the
you're so it. Now you have to change your
fashion. Nope.
Nope, I'm not Eastern European. Don't let this face lie to you
because I thought I was for 40 years my biological father.
That last time we met and it waslike, you were like, isn't

(07:32):
healing interesting? Or, you know, self discovery
uncovering. You were like, I moved to these
really dense layers of like, I'msure I'd love you to share more
about, but like your relationship with alcohol and
your relationship, toxic relationships with men.
And then you were like, OK, I felt like I'd really like, maybe
I'd got into this like really settled sense of self, which
I've been playing that little game with myself too in the last
year or so. And then being like, oh, oh,

(07:53):
here's the next layer of discovery.
And here's the next layer of like, how do I get to learn and
grow? And when you found that out
about your family, you were like, I thought I was here like
some version of cooked. And now it's like, here's this
next thing to work through. Yeah, Yeah.
So it's interesting because whenI was 18 years old, somebody in
my family did say, hey, Kate, I don't think daddy is your dad.

(08:14):
I think it's this guy who my momwas.
My mom had affairs throughout their whole relationship that
everybody knew that it was a known thing.
She wasn't secretive about it. And this affair with my
biological father was going on for years and years and years.
And I didn't know if my dad knew, though my man, the man who
raised me, beautiful, beautiful like he, he's my dad.

(08:38):
And so this just a few months ago, I actually, or just last
month, I went over to America tohave that conversation with him
face to face. So that was a big thing because
all of my family, Veronica were like, don't tell him that you're
selfish. He's this is going to kill him.

(08:58):
You're only thinking about yourself.
This is your truth, not his truth.
How dare you like. How do you decide, Katie?
Because that's like, I'm such a believer in radical honesty and
I know that's not a lot of people's frame, but I'm like, if
I hold anything that I can offersomeone, like the truth will set
you free. Like fuck, I'm a Canadian but I
still know that like. That's.

(09:19):
By that it doesn't matter how painful it is.
I think lies are the worst pain than any truth.
I wholeheartedly, like I'm a truth warrior, truth seeker,
massively, and I truly believe, like emotionally mature people
do, are not afraid of pain. Truth can hurt, That's OK.
But we're not afraid of pain. We're afraid of avoidance.

(09:39):
Yes, thank you. Yes.
And the pretending and the masksand the bullshit, right?
And so much truth is subjective,but when it comes to things like
factual truth, like I'm not yourbiological father, I can't
imagine anything worse than holding a secret that the
distance that creates between you and someone.
That's so gross to me. The delusion of that statement

(10:01):
that this is your truth, not histruth.
I'm like just because it might hurt someone like to hear it
doesn't make it any less true. Like it's called genetics and.
There are some subjective truths.
My emotional truths are my reality and not someone else's.
And I'm still going to share them, right?
So they can tell me theirs and Ican sit in both frames.
But yeah, that's a wild thing tosay.

(10:21):
This is your truth around. It's like, no, his sperm didn't
make me. That's how, that's all.
That's what I'm going to tell him.
Yeah, yeah. So there's science, but I knew
that I had to tell him. And I knew from my own past
experience that no matter like how hard the conversations have

(10:42):
been in my, excuse me in my past, that it is always been for
the better. So I knew this was going to,
whatever it was going to releasesomething.
And so it was a huge relief for him.
So somebody wrote him a letter, like a typed up letter, an
anonymous letter when I was little saying, hey, Phil is or

(11:05):
whatever his name is. I'm like, I didn't want to
reveal his real name. His his name is actually Katie's
father. And he approached my mom
numerous times and he said it was a topic of a lot of their
fights. And she would deflect, she would
leave for days. She would she she would say he
was crazy. Who you're going to believe me
or them? Gas lit him literally and but he

(11:29):
did say that she never actually said no, he's not and.
Every way possible linguistically, without actually
lying. Exactly.
And so it was a huge, he was like, I was going to put this in
my will, Katie, so that you knewbecause I've wanted to talk to
you about it hundreds of times, but I just couldn't get the

(11:49):
words out. And so I not only gave the
opportunity for me to set my truth feet, but also him.
And now we have like a closer relationship.
Like he's so much more. I mean, he's always been quite
like in the past 10 years since my mama's past, a bit more
vulnerable. But now it's like another level.

(12:10):
Like he's so much more open. We have a beautiful connection.
And if anything, I love him more.
I didn't know that was possible.And I respect him more and I.
Like honoring what you, you internally was, what you needed
to do and who you were. And honoring like this is the
truest expression of me is sharing this with him.
No matter what the outside voiceis said, you're like, no, I feel

(12:30):
called and this is what my body is saying.
This is what I know to be right.And now to see like that, that's
even brought you closer. Like such a testament to just
trusting your internal knowing hey and like doing what's right
for you. Absolutely.
And one interesting thing about trauma and memory and all this
stuff. So when I was 1820 years ago,

(12:51):
like I said, somebody told me and I said no way.
I've got my dad who I thought was my daddy's blue eyes because
I'm the only one with blue eyes and blonde hair.
And I'm like, no way, not like there's and I just shoved it
down. I never said anything to my
mother. I never said anything to my

(13:11):
husband. I never said anything to my best
friend. Like I never told anybody
because I was just like, forget about that.
Because at the time I go, well, it's 50% true or 50% false.
Like you never know. But, and it never came up again.
But I've, I've meditated on it, I've thought about it.
It's been in the back of my nervous system for 20 years.

(13:35):
So when I saw the results, I'm like, Oh yeah, somebody told me
20 years ago. Like I wasn't shocked.
I was almost prepared, but it wasn't the reason why I did the
test. And so I just like so many
people judge other people who gothrough heavy things and say,
how can you not remember? Oh, well, it was, you know, you

(13:56):
see this with people, especiallywhen they're getting interviewed
by like cops and stuff. And they're like, oh, if it was
that traumatic, how do you not remember?
And it's like memory is so. Powerful at repressing what's
not safe for us, right? Like, did you ever see that show
that was up not that many years ago with Jessica Biel, I think.

(14:17):
Yeah, one of the two. What did feel where it was like
she reenacted something that occurred where her sister or her
were in a high stress risk situation.
And then the same song came on. And then she followed the same
sequence of movements that she had used to protect herself
while holding a knife. So she ended up stabbing this
guy. And obviously it's fictional.
And yet there's so many of that that, like, your body remembers.

(14:38):
That's the whole point of addingsomatic work to whatever you're
doing in respective trauma healing or, you know, therapy or
coaching or is because the body remembers so much more than the
mind. The mind is so good at being
like, oh, that's we can't no nervous system can't handle
that. Let's just pop that into a
little vault in the back and when things are safe again, we
might pull that out to deal withit, right?
Exactly, exactly. And so I was told when when I

(15:03):
was 18, when I was 18, I was already going and like, I've
always had a lot of anger, resentment with my mom.
We had a very, I was her favorite.
I was her little Princess. And like, she was my biggest
cheerleader. She loved the guts out of me.
Like she was obsessed, Like she loved me so much.
But I like when she left my dad and like, knowing that she had

(15:26):
all the affairs and the way she,you know, at the time, I didn't
feel the way she treated my father, which I now see is just
she was in her own pain. And they just had, you know,
unfortunately a bit of a toxic relationship.
And it's even when she so she got cancer when she was 53,
quite young and it was stage 4 at that point, I still was so

(15:50):
angry. And even till she like Pat, like
I, I probably didn't think abouther passing away for like the
first four years of her like being gone.
I just again, very much disassociated.
Like, yeah, I mean, it is what it is.
I didn't allow myself to go downit and actually start the
healing process until about like10 years ago.

(16:11):
And but in my 20s, I was a full blown functional alcoholic for
sure. And I was.
Gonna do like. That's a great strategy for
numbing. Exactly.
I was having fun and I had a lotof fun.
Yeah, you can like, do a lot with enough gin and Dick to
distract yourself from actually being present in life at all.

(16:32):
Exactly. And I held it together.
I mean, I worked in New York City, I worked down on Wall
Street from a marketing agency for lawyers and, but I was
having a lot of fun and but it was.
I want to dive into that a little bit.
Like, did it feel like fun or was it like fun?
And then the darkness would creep up and you'd be like,
that's fine, I'll just get drunkagain.
Or was it just fun the whole time?

(16:53):
Or were you like, I'm fucking sonumb to my life that I don't
even know. Like I'm curious about how that
was for you. Well, it was my idea of fun at
the time, right? So looking back, I'm like like
that is not fun for me right now.
But at the time I didn't have any other thought process to
like this was what I knew and. There's no other depth that

(17:18):
you've seen and I'm. I was just, I was in survival
mode, not realizing that I couldbe actually in a healthy present
condition. Like I didn't think that was
possible. So like.
That's what like shakes me, right, Because I look at so many
people and I was her and it sounds like you were too.
Like I look at so many people and I'm like, what are you
doing? Like, is this, is this living

(17:40):
for you? Is this are you happy?
Are you thriving? Like are you even present to
your life? And I get so many of my clients
that come to me when they're finally at that rock bottom.
And I keep looking at like, how do we get people a little more
shaken and woken up to starting to see there's so much more
available before they fucking get hit by the Mack truck,
right? Like before that rock bottom and
they're just devastated and they've cheated, their husbands

(18:01):
cheated, someone's addicted to alcohol, someone has cancer.
Like, sure. And like, those are times when
your people are ready to change.And yet my curiosity is like,
how do we sort of rattle people just enough to go, hey, you can
come alive to life and be present in your body?
You can rewire your nervous system before the fucking rock
bottom. Or do we just have to wait?
Like, is it just the fucking someone's like life's going to

(18:24):
give them the pill and then that's time like.
When the student is ready, the teacher appears.
You could have, I mean, I was reading Buddhism books.
I was reading all about and I thought I was so Zen back then
and I was still me. Like I'm a really chill like,
you know, I, I can easily let things go, but like I was living

(18:46):
in full on survival mode, but mybody was screaming it through
symptoms. So This is why I work somatic
work because your. Body that you made the other day
that I loved so much that reminded me of a past version of
me. It was something like when
someone says she's anxious and also tells me she's doing like
such and such. Hit training, drinking 6 coffees
a day and I was like, there was a time where I was running half
marathons, having 4-1 blocks a day, working in a job I didn't

(19:09):
like in a marriage that wasn't safe and was just like, that's
just, this is you just survival.Like I look at her and I'm like,
how did she not know, you know, symptoms of irritable bowel
disease to the point where they were like, maybe you're going to
get Crohn's and we'll put you ona colostomy bag.
And like, I just didn't know another way.
It was like you just take another coffee or you have a
wine and then you go to sleep oryou like go and have an affair
or you open your relationship soit's not an affair and you just

(19:32):
like stay busy enough to go fromone stimulant to 1 depressant or
meds or whatever until you die Iguess.
Yep. You're just running on dopamine
really, like you're chasing the highs, however you can get them.
And that's what I was doing. I was going, you know, whether
it was booze, whether it was some sort of drug, whether it
was hooking up with somebody, whether it was going on this

(19:53):
plane to go travelling here and then this social event like I
was always and then working, working like just.
What you said about travel and work though too, because that's
such a reminder like to flag forso many people, like hey, you
being in survival. Mode might not look
dysfunctional like for so many people, they're functioning and
they're still not enjoying life.You know, they're like moving
from 1 success or one business to the other, but they're just

(20:16):
like, I don't know, I go to bed at the end of the day with an
existential crisis and I get up and do the next day.
It's like some of us have reallydysfunctional, societally
unacceptable coping habits, but then others it's just like, I
just work and travel and I say busy, but I go to bed at night
wondering when am I going to enjoy life?
Like what am I actually going to?
They're doing all these things, but not really.
Contentment, yeah. And that's the difference.

(20:40):
It's like I'm not, I'm no longerchasing anything.
I'm, I feel safe enough to just be in my body.
And it's I've built capacity that I know that I can handle
anything. Like there is nothing I can't
handle. Doesn't mean I won't get upset.
That doesn't mean I might not beshaky.
That doesn't mean I might not cry.

(21:01):
That doesn't mean I might not be, you know, have grief.
Like I will still be able to feel all those things, but with
presence. And in fact, you have to, don't
you think? Well, I, I, we're kind of those
people who also probably enjoy abit of like the, the punch or
like the down. The sadistic part or?
Yeah, and maybe it's like, oh, something good's gonna come from

(21:22):
this. I can feel it.
Well, I think that's the truth. So that's one of the things I
really struggle with. One of my favorite ways of
expressing to people lately is like, you want to be happy, You
want to feel good. Well, you're gonna have to feel
shit first because if you're running on dopamine for so long
and you're addicted to the chaosand the cortisol and the
adrenaline, when you finally sit, it's still enough to look
at yourself and to let your nervous system rewire.

(21:45):
Like it's going to feel like shit.
Like it's not just drug addicts and Alcoholics that need to go
to rehab. When we slow the fuck down,
we're all needing to go through some version of rehab and
detoxification, right? And so it's going to feel like
shit and you're going to feel angry and grief, like you said,
and sadness and probably a whole.
Lot of emotions bored as a people don't like to meditate

(22:05):
because they're they get restless, they get tired, they
get bored. I'm like, this is your nervous,
this system trying to regulate itself.
You've been like, it doesn't mean that it's not working or
that it's boring and that you'rewasting your time.
It's just that the hardest thingto do is to be present.
People think it's so simple, andI never knew what being present

(22:28):
was until I went to a meditationretreat.
I had read books for 10 years. You'd intellectualized it, Yeah.
I intellectualized I. Read a whole survey on it, a
whole like study and read a whole book.
But fuck. And then I was.
Like my body? Oh my first meditation retreat
because I had IBS for 30 years. I went to the bathroom like once
a week thinking that was normal mine.

(22:50):
Was the opposite. It was 18 times a day, so yeah.
So it's different. Spectrum.
Yeah, yeah. Wow.
And I went, my first meditation retreat was in Southeast Asia
because my wallet was stolen, all my belongings were stolen on
a beach. So I literally had no money at
all. And this is where my my journey

(23:10):
really began. Like I, I'd left to meet New
York knowing that I needed to change.
I needed to get sober. And I was in Southeast Asia by
myself because my visa didn't work out like a whole like I was
not in a good place. I was like, what the hell am I
doing with my life? I'm like almost 30 years old and
then my wallet gets stolen and, and I remember the woman, I was

(23:31):
staying in a hostel for $5 a day.
The woman was like, this is going to be a big blessing.
And I'm like, okay, lady. And exactly, it was the biggest
blessing in my life. It literally I've had a
meditation practice ever since that day that was 2014, so 11
years ago. And it changed my life

(23:52):
physically, mentally, emotionally.
I it I finally felt what it was like to be present and not have
to like run and, and go for thatanother dopamine hit.
And for the first time in 30 years, I was using the bathroom
every day and I was going to IBSspecialist in New York City and
they were like, oh, it's not everybody goes every day like

(24:14):
that. That might just be your normal.
And I was like, and they put me on like the low FODMAP diet and
I'm like, none of this shit works guys.
Sorry. Nobody ever said anything about
stress trauma, right? Nothing.
When I was on that journey, theydid, they said, you know, it's
mental health related. And I was like, great, So what
do I do? And they were like, well, we can

(24:35):
give you drugs. And I was like, that's not the
solve either, right? Like I played low FODMAP, got
some resolve for a time. I played with anxiety meds.
You know, probably if I'd been in Canada, I probably would have
tried medicinal marijuana, but Ididn't.
I lived in Australia. Like it is, it's wild to watch.
The journey was through yoga andmeditation studies for myself
too, where I finally sat in stillness and going through that

(24:56):
experience of like, oh, I'm bad at meditating.
I can't do it. It's like, yeah, that's when you
need it more and you're doing itperfect.
What was that expression for me where I realized I was like, oh,
I thought it was like I was supposed to find stillness to
start. You know, I was meant to have my
thoughts calm and that I was meant to feel good or even find
that boring. What I didn't realize and know
about the nervous system then isfor me to get to that state of

(25:19):
rest and digest, I first had to go through a proper fight or
flight response. So I would start to meditate and
in the stillness I would feel irritable but I didn't know it
was OK to like and scream and fucking cry until I studied yoga
and meditation and my teacher made so much space.
I remember going to like quite afew trauma informed weekends in
a row from my studies and being like I am the most erratic

(25:41):
person here. Like, I'm quite a extroverted
express person anyway, but when?Everybody hits as well, so you
get a lot of fire in there, yeah.
So thanks. Yeah, she smells it.
So when I would feel it, I wouldlet myself like shake or you
know, we did a lot of like Kundalini style inspired stuff
too, where it was like leg liftsand things that had the body
have to hold tension. And then like he would, she

(26:02):
would make space for us to scream and cry or whatever.
And I was like, oh, I thought I just had to meditate with
stillness. And it was meditating with
movement and expression and sound and all these somatic
tools that then I could meditatein stillness.
It was like, oh, if I freeze right now, I'm just creating a
new response for myself. That's not better.
So many expressions of me and mynervous system that needed to be

(26:23):
like, fuck you, fuck off. No, this isn't okay.
And it's coming out of my body. Now.
Me just placating is another version of me just setting
myself into freeze mode. Like that's not what I need.
So I watch people, like, meditate when they're just in
freeze mode and sitting and overthinking and I'm like, I
don't think that's what you need, Boo.
Or like me, I've noticed becauseso with the nervous system you

(26:45):
have it obviously the connected state, the sympathetic state
state or the dorsal shut down todisassociate or just freeze.
And most people think fight or flight is the common state.
It's actually freeze and shutdown.
So people will just avoid that'sthe like.
And also because when you were little, fight or flight didn't
work enough. So that's why you go into the

(27:06):
the freeze and shutdown. Look, school is sit still don't
don't make sound. So many parents raised their
kids that way. You know, even at what I look at
is too like the early 80s and 90s.
Parenting was to let them cry itout.
Kids learn to disassociate and numba and then fall asleep.
Exactly. Well.
No wonder our nervous systems don't know any better yet.
Yeah. And so when you're in the dorsal

(27:27):
vago, which is think of it like a ladder, you actually have to
go into the sympathetic to get to the ventral vago.
So like you were saying, like you were in the disassociate, so
you had to go through all that uncomfortableness to, to be able
to hold it with capacity and then get into that ventral vagal
and, and you'll always go through the states.

(27:47):
It doesn't mean you're never going to be in shutdown again.
It doesn't mean you're never going to be in fight or flight.
It just means you can hold that space for it and build the
capacity, widen your window of tolerance and see yoga.
I like I've been a yoga teacher for the past 10 years.
It it changes your relationship with your body.
And I used to be the girl who thought if I wasn't puking after

(28:12):
a workout, it's not working. I need a boot camp.
I need to be burning twice as many calories as I ate.
So were you the one who, when you found yoga, did you do a
Bikram? Because that looked hard and
intense. No, I, well, it's interesting
because my journey with yoga, I hated it.
Hated, hated, hated. Because I always hate the
medicine. I hated it and I lived in an

(28:34):
ashram where you had to do 2 hours of it and it's the
slowest, most annoying. Even now I think about I'm like
that's it's called Shivananda and you literally do 20 minutes
of pranayama like breathing exercises, which like and I was
a smoker. So like I was like how do people
have the lung capacity? And I was like could could never

(28:54):
do the breathing exercises properly.
I hated it. And then you did only like 10
yoga poses and then you did a shavasana in between each pose
and it was like 2 hours long andI had to do it every day and
there was hashtag no days off. So it was required to do.
I hated every minute of it for 31/2 months.
And then towards the end, because I was learning about the

(29:16):
science and all of that stuff with it, I was like, oh, this is
like a moving meditation. Like you're supposed to release
this attachment to like it needing to be something perfect
to make you feel good and just be in it.
Like I didn't get it for almost four months of doing it every
day for two hours. And then even after that, I did

(29:38):
it at the gym in LA for a littlebit and I was like, OK, it's all
right, it's OK. But then there was something
when I came to Australia and I was like, no, I feel like I want
to do my yoga teacher training. And so I did my training and
like I was just hooked. And I can't imagine my life
without it. Everyday I don't do a practice,
but I stretch everyday. I'm big on the breath.

(30:03):
I call it yoga ish and mindful ishness because I don't do if
someone watched me, they wouldn't be like you did yoga
today. You know my the way I relate to
my body, like the amount of intro and extra reception I
gained from yoga ish practices, the amount that I just tuned
into what's my breath like rightnow?
The way I just like adjust and move my body or feel like
where's the tension right now? Oh wait, what if I readjust my
jaw right now? That will feel better, like from

(30:24):
micro awarenesses of where I'm holding stress, that two years
of studying my body and the science of my body, You made
such a difference. And like, there's endless growth
there for me too. And it was such a big reminder,
though, of like, yeah, that it is a relationship with your
body, like you said, and it can change whatever your practice is
something that gets you feeling and breathing and slowing down.

(30:48):
Like our body needs that. Stretching is new, flexing and
sitting is the new smoking. But the yoga changes that
relationship with your body, which helps you release the
suppressed emotions and the unprocessed trauma.
Cause trauma is just, I mean, it's a wound.
It's a wound that you carry and it's your inability to feel safe

(31:10):
in your body 'cause it's like maybe a distressing event or a
memory and you just don't feel safe in your body.
And so yoga is such a powerful path into safety in your body.
It doesn't mean just because youdo yoga, your nervous system is
fine. Like most of my people.
Doing performative yoga as well.Or it's like, watch me make
this. It's perfect shape.

(31:31):
It's like, oh, cool, so you found perfectionism even in
yoga? Like, that was me when I
started, right? Like I bet if I'm bendier I'll
be more attractive. Yeah, the ego or like you notice
when you're doing yoga how much you're judging yourself and then
you're judging other people and you're like comparing and you're
like. Worse or better, Yeah, but
that's it, right? I remember when the one day
where I was like, oh fuck, that's what yoga is.

(31:53):
It's me on the mat, observing, just observing my mind
observing. My meditation.
Just like, oh, OK, oh, I'm doingthat thing where she's
stretching deeper, so I should go deeper.
OK, stop, let it go. And like, oh, I'm doing the
thing now where I'm watching my thought, but I'm addicted.
OK, Let that thought go too. Like when you just get on the
mat and make it about you just observing and like, getting

(32:14):
curious and compassionate. I was like, oh this is fucking
beautiful. It is, it really is.
And I mean yoga means to union with yourself, to yoke it,
literally. That's the English translation.
And the only way you will ever heal is union and yoking with
yourself like there is no other guru outside of you there.

(32:37):
Is thank you. Well, say louder.
Guru means remover of darkness. Nobody can remove your darkness
except for you. Oh, I didn't know that.
That's delicious. I mean remover of darkness such.
A point of my identity journey right now is where I'm just like
self and other like stop lookingoutside of you.
Like stop looking for God the the perfect yoga teacher.

(32:59):
Stop looking for the perfect book or like utilize the tools
to help you come home to yourself.
You, your God, you're you, you're your guru.
Like stop thinking if you pay this certain amount of money or
go to this certain country or dothe certain sequence of things
like that, these symbols will suddenly mean something like you
are God, God is you. We're all God.
Just stop outsourcing it and like to self to over and over,

(33:22):
right? And just being like life is here
to be fun. And like the way I coach is so
playful and sassy and deep at the same time because I'm like,
girl, this is heavy shit. But it gets to be fun.
Like we're actually here just tohave a good time like once.
Once you just keep deciding thatevery day is like, how do I make
life more fun? But you have to get your
nervousness to him to a point where even play is safe, right?

(33:42):
For so many, play doesn't feel safe.
Yeah, yeah. Or you have to change your idea
of play. So obviously my idea of play has
changed totally. Yeah.
And, you know, and, and looking back, like my idea of play back
then makes me feel quite anxiousthinking about now, but probably

(34:03):
vice versa back then, if I was thinking about what I consider
play and safety now was very notsafe back then.
So it's, you know, it's it's do.You consider play now?
I'd love to hear about that because I've got a lot of
clients who are like leaving their fuck girls stage and
leaving their badass girl era. And like they're less addicted
to performing at work and they're like, but then what do I

(34:23):
do? And they're like knitting and
cooking and gardening and a whole slew of things.
And one of the things I really invite people into is starting
to explore their body and sexuality as a playground as
well. So I'm curious what's play for
you and like what do you offer yourself?
Well, I obviously love my doggies.
So even just cuddling her, beingout like on a walk with her,

(34:45):
like without the phone, I like being, I don't like having
distractions and abstractions. That to me is like really good
play, like the noise from the outside world.
I do like very much like I love meditation, I love reading, I
love massages. But I also like being really

(35:06):
goofy with my like hobby becauseI'm quite a serious person.
But because I was always a very mature kid, you know, one of
those ones who had to grow up a little too fast.
But I remember being, you know, like even in 4th grade and I
just wanted to have my own houseand my own car and I wanted a
job. Like, I just always wanted to be
an adult. I, I hated playing with like

(35:27):
Barbies. I hated video games.
I just, I love being and I love being an adult.
Like, I love it. There's something about like I
love, you know, like paying bills and going to the post
office. I'm like 0% relate.
I'm like, I am such a kid. I'm like, don't make me adult,
please. I can do it.
But like I just want to play. That's like one of my gifts.
I'm like come play with me. I'm really good at playing.

(35:49):
Yeah, see, I'm not the best at playing.
And so I really appreciate my husband, who can be like, quite
goofy and fun. So I like it when people can
bring that out, that part of me and like, we're going to Burning
Man. It's not like I don't like, you
know, but it's also an adult playground.
Yeah. Can I ask, what does an adult
playground like that look like for you?
Like, how do you relate? Because you were an alcoholic in
the past? Sounds like potentially use some

(36:11):
drugs. Like what is your relationship
to going to places like that now?
Because this is something I've danced with and I watch clients
go, like, what if I had a few drinks?
Or what if I just did a little MD or like, what if I go to
these places sober? Like, what would that look like?
How do I honor the newest expression of me?
Are you happy to share about what that looks like?
For you and where you're absolutely.
So I think it's a very differentexperience for me now as opposed
to 10 years ago. So 10 years ago I was, I mean,

(36:33):
I'll still drink, like I'll havea few drinks here and there, but
I am very much in a different place than I was.
So 10 years ago going, I was quite, I wouldn't say scared,
but I was like, because I know that once I start back then, I
sometimes didn't have my shut off and like I could just go
pretty hard, pretty fast. And so but birding Man

(36:54):
thankfully isn't a very big drinking place because it is a
week long and you really want tobe like sober enough.
Like, yeah, OK, people do drugs,but only to kind of keep
themselves awake or to have a really trippy experience.
But like it's not a place that you go to and you go hard, which
was, you know, good in that case10 years ago, because we really

(37:14):
didn't like do we didn't go hard.
And now where it's like it's noteven it's not even a part of I
just you don't I I know how it feels to not feel good after so
that that is stronger than actually me wanting to do it.
You have to have it associated with like a poor.

(37:36):
This is why it took like me forever to like really stop
smoking because I never associated it with a bad thing.
For me. It was like it always felt
really good and like a big in and a long exhale, like it was a
breathing thing. But then when I started to be
like, oh, but I hate that feeling of my chest when I wake
up or and then when I started toassociate it with like the bad

(37:57):
feelings, it was very easy for me to stop.
And the same with drinking. So I blacked out pretty much 9
times out of 10 Shit. And I woke up with anxiety every
day after drinking. But to me it was like my normal
and it was like, OK, we'll just just don't think about it, don't
talk about it, don't ask anybodyabout last night.
I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear it.
So I associate drinking with a lot of like shame, anxiety,

(38:24):
maybe guilt, more shame because I was more ashamed of who I was
instead of what I did. But so I, it's very easy for me
not to drink because I just, I'mlike, it's not fun for me.
The memories I think about are the things that like, I don't
have any regrets. But it's like, well, if there
are a few things I could shift alittle, it's probably back then

(38:47):
when I was drinking too much. But it is, you know, it's part
of my story. And it makes me, I think also
more compassionate to people whoare on that journey because I
get it. Like, and also so my mom and my
biological father, they were always drinking buddies.
And my biological father was a drinker.

(39:07):
And so like, and when I look back at my other siblings, like
I was more of the drinker and I'm like that, you know, it's,
it's not. And my dad, my butt, or sorry,
the man who raised me doesn't drink.
Yeah, right. And so.
Much that can be epigenetically linked, hey?
Yeah, I, I mean, I do think genetics is was for sure has a

(39:30):
bit and also you what you see and like I do think I look back
when I was little, I think I, I know that I knew that he was my
biological father because. He would know.
Exactly. And so like I would have this
just like I guess association with it and it unfortunately
felt familiar and comfortable and what you did.

(39:54):
Damn thing about the nervous system.
Hey, that familiar hell. No, and and I was quite
promiscuous in my 20s, let's sayin New York, having fun.
My my sisters are not like that at all.
They had very serious. So now I'm like, wait, maybe I
have a different bio dead. No, I'm kidding.
But like I am like the the troublemaker of my family,

(40:14):
right? Like everybody else is back home
and following a very similar style of life.
And it's so interesting to sometimes wonder, like, why I'm
so dramatically different to my siblings.
We look very. We're identical.
So yeah. Yeah, and and look, I'd every
child and that's what my dad said.
My dad was like, look, because Iwas like, did you not catch on
when I was little? And I looked different.

(40:34):
I act different. He's like, hey, every child is
different. Like every, you know, it doesn't
matter. He's like, everybody's
different. Yeah, everybody likes different
things. You look like that's just the
way it is, children. And and I get that, like every
soul is different, but I do lookback and I'm like, and my dad
actually said I went to him whenI was little and I said, why
don't I look like my brothers and sisters?

(40:58):
And he was like, so I thought that you knew.
Right. Both.
On some level, you did right. Well, exactly.
So it's not me. Became a like black sheep,
became a whole nother like yeah label for me.
Yeah. Is there like how are you
feeling at the whole age? Does that feel concluded for you
or is there lots more expansion like a Unix for other family

(41:20):
members that you didn't know? Or does it just feel like a
chapter has closed and. Yeah, so I just a few days ago
reached out to my half siblings on my daddy's biological
father's side, just the the halfbrother who I matched with on an
ancestry. So he didn't know either.
So we were both having that conversation for him pretty much

(41:44):
finding out for the first time. But he it wasn't a surprise.
So he's 24 years older than me. My biological father was 18
years older than my mother. So he's 24 years older than me.
And he knew me when I was little.
He was like, I remember you. And he was like, I remember your
mom. And when my mom was pregnant, he

(42:07):
remembers his dad saying, oh, mymom, that I was his SO, but he
didn't believe him. He just thought he was saying
that, so he wasn't surprised, but he didn't know.
Like it was never spoken about. It was never talked about.
It wasn't a quote UN quote knownthing with them, but yeah.

(42:29):
And another little back story. When I was 10 years old, I found
out that my my aunt had been murdered on Mother's Day back in
1982, and my mom adopted her son, who is our brother.
And so that was the first big secret of like the family that I
was like, oh, OK. Like people don't like to talk
about things. Blows my mind how many families

(42:51):
have these like deep, deep secrets.
Like quite a few people from my past, they would start drinking
and start unraveling these intricate family affairs and
this person's, this sister's daughter.
And I'm just like, what? Like it's interesting to have
gone from such like a beautiful,well, beautiful is not the right
word. But like a good little church
girl to like, OK, I'm not buyingthis illusion anymore to like

(43:12):
entering it. Like I was a nanny for years.
So I saw things happening in people's families and I was
like, I think this like affluent, good life, nuclear
family thing is a little more ofa facade than what many have
shown us, you know, And then I was in my own little happy
marriage and started exploring open relating and, and started

(43:33):
realizing the intricacies of what was really happening behind
people's closed doors between all of those experiences.
And I'm like, the amount of people who are cheating, the
amount of people who are having these intricate sexual emotional
relationships, Like there is so much more to the human
experience than what were sold and what were shown a lot on TV
than what were witnessed. Like our parents have these
whole secret lives they don't share.

(43:54):
Like, why is it that we've constructed society this way?
And like, how do we get more rawand real with ourselves so we
can show the people around us? Because everyone's got the same
messy shit, but they're just doing it over there instead of
sharing the experience with eachother and helping each other out
of it. Like, it breaks my heart how
much pain people bring in and how much they run outside of
their relationships to numb thatpain or to clear up that pain

(44:17):
temporarily. Right.
And it's, it's just so sad to mebecause so many people are
cheating, whether it's physical or emotional or, you know, in
their fantasy world, they're running other places.
I'm like, what if we actually goto work through our shit and
actually be present with the people we say we love?
Like, what if we didn't have to keep secrets from our kids?
What if we didn't have to keep secrets from ourselves?
Like to be free like that? Is an.

(44:39):
Empowered place to live from. Like my relationships now look
so different. Like my best friend knows my
deepest darkest shit. You know the gentleman that I've
started seeing. Like we know each other's
deepest core wounds. And it's like, that's love to
me. I can't make sense of anything
else other than that as love anymore.
Absolutely. I mean, to me, if it wasn't
wasn't real raw and honest, likeI wanted nothing to do with it.

(45:02):
And I've that like I was very adamant, like that is a huge,
huge like value for me is truth from the get go.
And I will say though, when you're in it, when you're in the
shame, when you're on struggle St. in the shame, like taking

(45:23):
that is way too much for your and if nobody else around you is
doing it, how do you just becomethat person, right?
And. That's why I think I'm like,
fuck that. Then I'll share my deepest
darkest secrets with the whole world.
Whoever wants to listen. Because I remember holding my
like what I thought were my darkest shadows.
Not that long. Like I remember just being like

(45:44):
there was something in me that felt if I share it, it will feel
lighter. And I remember finding places
like personal development workshops and self development
spaces where a lot of people were like, I was sexually
abused, traumatized. I was hurt by this person.
And the amount of people that were like, Oh my God, I never
thought I'd say that out loud. And to have it just witnessed
like one of my clients shared recently, like her experience of

(46:05):
telling me her darkest thing meant that she was like, Oh my
God, she suddenly felt lighter. Then she told her boyfriend and
now she's like, well, my gosh, I'll be able to tell my clients
to help them. Like how do we just keep
inviting people to share that? Just start shining the light on
the parts that feel the darkest Because shame doesn't live in
the light, it lives in the shadow, right?
And so that's why I'm an over sharer on purpose to be like,

(46:25):
here's my shit. Because if I can own this, you
can own your shit. Like I've done the shit.
I've been the worst expression of myself and I love her now.
Like I've freed her. She has no more secrets.
No one can blackmail me. Like fucking try.
It's all out there. And like that's what I felt in
your book too. I remember reading parts of it
and just being like, I actually can't read this.
Like it feels too heavy, almost like it was so real in that you

(46:48):
were like, here's my shit. I'm not going to pretend like
here's the fuckery. Yeah, yeah, no, I and this was
writing this book was one of thebiggest healing.
It did take me 4 years, but it was every so how I did the
process because it was quite heavy and I wasn't sure what to
share, what not to share. And I remember hearing Elizabeth

(47:08):
Gilbert say like never share something that you haven't
healed and, and, and it's, and your healing is dependent on
somebody else's opinion. So whatever anybody says, it
can't like it's like oil and water.
It's like, OK, that's how they, yeah.
So what I did with the process was for the first full year I
wrote 1 chapter a month and I did 12 chapters and I wrote it

(47:31):
like a diary entry and I like spoke it out loud to to my
husband. So he was like my safe space and
for me to like and some of the stuff like he hadn't known, he
knew about a lot of the things but he didn't know the
intertwinings of it and all that.

(47:51):
So I was like bawling my eyes out for so much of it at the
beginning. Then by the 2nd year when we
started to piece everything together, there was still things
where I'm like, oh, that's stilla little soft.
Then by the third year, I'm like, can we just wrap this shit
up? Like I am ready?
And now, yeah. And now when I talk about it,

(48:15):
it's not that. I don't think that it's me, but
I'm so not attached because thatwas a story.
But that's not who I am right now.
That's not that's what I went through.
And if anything, it allowed me to have more compassion for
other people. But I I have nothing to be
ashamed about for what I experienced or what I chose to

(48:39):
do or say to people. Like what matters most is what I
do right now, in this present moment.
Oh. My God, this is so my most
recent journey, so the last partner that I really I for the
first time in my life, let myself create certainty in a
relationship. And I was like, this is my
person. And it was the first time I let
myself be really like choose someone to be chosen.
And what I didn't realize is thewounds there for me still was

(49:01):
that my sexual past was too muchto be loved.
And that was his experience of me as well.
So when that relationship wrapped up, I was like, oof.
I thought I was like, so healed around this.
But obviously I chose someone who just couldn't accept that
and from me because I wasn't fully accepting that still.
And like to see that mirror was so beautiful and how so much
gratitude of like, OK, well, that that's the thing that I,

(49:24):
you know, I speak so openly about.
And yet there's a still screaming little teenager, you
know, young 20s woman inside. Maybe like, Are you sure though?
Like can I really be loved in all of me?
And it was so great to just havethis experience of like a lot of
my clients starting businesses and stuff.
And I know you're have you started your podcasts?
Are you looking to start it? Starting this week, yeah.

(49:44):
So I'm like, that is one of the most healing practices to write
a book, to make a podcast, even if you don't share it with
anybody to speak. Your truth out loud.
That's when I tell people you write a timeline.
You need to actually, and you need to think about the memories
and you and you, you also, this is another thing I like people
were like, oh, well, I don't remember.

(50:05):
It's like, it's OK that you don't remember.
You don't have to like you don'thave to remember to heal.
Like I didn't remember that. Somebody told me my biological
father was not the man who raised me.
But like, I obviously healed enough so when I received it, it
didn't break. Me.
And when you start writing or speaking, you find more like I
would when I first, I had a previous podcast and I would
start telling stories and I'd belike, oh, and then I'd be like,

(50:26):
oh, and I remember saying, I'm not sure if this is real or
imagined, but I just have this. And that's what the mind and the
nervous system do, right? And so they're like mixing
things up. And so as the more I found I
spoke, the more I found my genuine truth.
And because I had been told to think certain ways and had been
told to say certain things to make other people feel a certain
way to come back to my truth through speaking it out loud,

(50:47):
like I found myself saying truths and right after inside
being like, that's not true for me.
Can I say that again, please? Because I just realized, Oh, I
said what the church taught me. I said what my ex-husband taught
me. I said what that boyfriend
wanted me to say as I'd say it, I was like, oh, I'd watch myself
saying it'd be like, that's not true for me actually.
Like what a gift to give yourself to start speaking your
truth or writing your truth and just so that you can find it and

(51:08):
you can live it. Like that's somatic in itself,
to hear your voice, to watch your body create a story of your
life. And let's be honest, like throat
chakra for women has been suppressed for how many years?
Like thousands and thousands of years.
Like it is so important for women to speak their truth.
And that's what I basically like.
My whole most of my clients are all women who are having

(51:32):
trouble. They're people pleasers.
They don't know how to put up boundaries, whether it's with
somebody they've been with for 25 years, a friend who they love
dearly, like so many women, especially also men.
But the throat chakra like speaking your truth and feeling
safe enough to do it because so many women also will just avoid

(51:55):
it because stay quiet to keep the peace or well, it won't
matter anyways because they theyaren't emotionally mature enough
to understand and to. And it's like, that's not why
you put a boundary in place. It's for you, not them.
And then when people say they violated my boundaries, I'm
like, nobody violates your boundaries.

(52:17):
You say, what is the behavior that you're going to take?
So next time that happens, your behavior changes, not theirs.
Take your power back. Such a huge piece.
Your power is in with you, within you, and you don't have
to allow dysfunction in your life you don't like.

(52:37):
I do not have toxic, dysfunctional people in my life.
Period. Because I have perfect.
Not because I have perfect people in my life.
I don't allow it. And if there is something that
needs to be talked about, I talkabout it.
That doesn't mean they're alwayshappy about it, and that doesn't
mean it goes how I want it to go.
But there's none of this. Like don't say shit.

(53:00):
Yeah, that's actually been one of the biggest spring things
that I saw through ending my last relationship.
It was like, oh, OK, so like, what is my truth?
And how do I speak it boldly andwith love?
And how do I make sure like, that I'm so free here and that
whoever I'm loving feels safe tobe.
That doesn't mean, like you said, we're still going to
react. We're still going to be like,
oh, your truth sits icky for me right now.
And like, I hate that that and like, how do we create a

(53:21):
narrative that both feels great for both of us?
There's such a dance of like of,yeah, I love that piece of like
the boundaries is, but are you holding, you know, like you
built the boundary, of course, like consequences to test.
This you have to stick with it. Yeah.
And letting people leave your life.
Like I think there's so many people are like, but they're my

(53:42):
mom, but she's my boss. But whatever.
It's like no one gets to treat you anyway unless you let them.
And like, I remember feeling so like something was wrong with me
when I started letting a lot of relationships shift of like
recognizing so many people just have people in their lives.
They let them treat. They let who they let treat them
poorly. And I was like, because my
standards gotten so much higher,there is a smaller circle around

(54:04):
me. But fuck those people listen and
fuck, they're curious and fuck, they want to hear my truth, even
if it's icky. And fuck, they're here for all
of it. You know, like the relationships
I have are so fucking real that it's made it so when other
people are complaining about something, I have to like really
ground myself with my clients tobe like, oh, OK, she's still
learning this. So I'm like, why are you putting
up with that? You know, like people are
telling me stories that, you know, at some of that.

(54:26):
And I'm like, but what did you? And then I'm like, you're not at
work though. You're not.
This is, you know, like it just floors me with people like
someone treated me like this. I'm like, cuz you let them like,
you see that, right? Like.
Yep, a narcissist will only comeinto your life to show you where
you don't value yourself. Serious truth.
Just because somebody's a narcissist doesn't mean you have

(54:47):
to let. Them suck every oz like you.
You know, and I don't love the narcissist thing because we do
overuse it. Like every.
I mean, I was a narcissist. We all have narcissistic
behaviors that are possible. For us exactly.
But yeah, like nobody can treat you poorly unless you allow
them. I always think I'm like
vampires. You they can only come into your

(55:07):
house if you let them. Put the clove of garlic on bitch
and turn the lights on. But it is it's such an
empowerment piece and it, you know, it's easier to sit here
after how many years of us learning to find this place in
our nervous system and and rewire the way we think and draw
the boundaries to be like, come on, it's but it is that first
belief I remember that I saw. I was like really recognizing I

(55:29):
can only be abandoned if I abandoned myself.
I can only be abused if I let them.
I can only be, you know, like someone can only take if I give
and laughing in that moment of realizing, OK, so it's me.
It's always me. And like, what am I allowing?
What am I letting? What am I receiving?
And like, still finding new layers of that, especially in
the receivership and in the being loved in my fullness and

(55:49):
in that sexual expression that is me and in the vocal
expression that is me and in themessiness, right?
But it's that like, keep pullingback, keep being your own guru
and keep showing light within yourself and getting rid of the
darkness. If you're like, here it is.
Will you love it? Like what a place to build from.
And like, I can see that's what you're doing.
And that's why I was so excited to bring you on the podcast
because I, I love that you bringhumor to your content as well,

(56:12):
but that you're screaming to people like take your power.
Like I read one of your posts right before we got on from one
of your client testimonials. It looked like where she was.
Like you help me realize I'm notthat scared little girl anymore.
And like, that's what we're doing with your body and mind
showing your nervous system. You're not that little girl that
your nervous system thinks you are.
Let's get you through that ladder to a place where you're
like, oh, I respond. There's space between stimulus

(56:33):
and response. Let's be with that and create a
new way of being like, that's a fucking gift.
And that's possible for everybody.
It is, I always say, you know, are you the wounded child or are
you the mature adult because you're only one or two in every
situation and, and it's either love or fear, you know, it's the
same thing. You're either the wounded child.

(56:54):
And that's OK because we can attend to that little part of
you that is still hurt as the mature adult.
And then the more you start to tend to these wounded parts, the
more the mature adult is like, I've got this, I'm here.
We can do anything, you know? But it's and in those moments,
like it's like, OK, bring it back.
Am I the wounded child? Am I the mature adult?

(57:14):
Am I coming from love or am I coming from fear?
And it's always always that like.
I love that emotionally focused part sort of therapy frame as
well, like imagining too. I think the piece I got wrong
previously was I could do that for self, but I forgot whoever I
was into get interacting with inthat relational system was also
in every moment love or fear. You know, their core self, their

(57:36):
adult self or their child self. And like recognizing there was
moments where I had to be my adult self while they were being
their kids self and times where they were their adult self,
where I was my kids self. And to me, like, that's what I
think your primary attachment gets to be is like, who's going
to be the adult sometimes in those moments to just hold the
other and let them cry and be like, oh, that part of me feels
seen and loved now. Like I'm ready to be an adult

(57:57):
again. Like doing that work internally
and doing that in the relationalsystems.
Like, oh, it's that's the shit that lights me up so much that I
help my clients do that. Just I'm just like, oh, this is
it. Like this is, can we just all do
that? Like how is everyone not
obsessed with this sort of work?I don't get, I'm like, how is
everyone like let's heal our attachment wounds, let's heal
our trauma. That's it.
That's what we got to do. That's how you fucking elevate

(58:18):
consciousness. Like stop with your fucking
plant medicine bullshit and all your like other like other
stuff's just tools to get us here to heal the shit and like
to love each other. Exactly.
Yeah, Yeah. I did ayahuasca for the first
time this year when after I found out and I was like, it was
a beautiful experience. Like it was nothing but love and
and like it was just I was laughing.

(58:41):
It was fun. Nothing dark came, no messages.
Came. That's such a good sign.
Yeah. And it was, it was like it was
just, I knew I was completely supported because it was right
after I found out and I was like, what do I do?
But I knew once and when I did that it was just this, like this
is exactly what I'm supposed to be doing.

(59:01):
Like there's nothing but love and support here.
And I know that like that's the only thing that can come because
that's my intention is love and connection.
Like secrecy and silence and shame just is more
disconnection. And I'm all about the
connection. Yeah, and I think there's I
think it's Brené Brown that has that language of like the

(59:23):
hedgehogs between you in bed. That's the frame shoes, is that
you and your partner in bed And there's all these hedgehogs
between you, right. And like, that's why you can't
get close and connect because there's prickly things in
between, you know, the untruths,the unspoken things, the lies,
the shadowy things that insecurities.
And like, I believe that's our job over and over.
And that's why I do it on a public platform is be like,
here's my shit. Let's look at it.

(59:44):
Like if come on, if I can tell like my my dad could listen to
this, for fuck's sake. Like anyone could access this.
And I'm telling you, I'm going to love myself through that if I
can do that. Come on, Like who do you need to
share a truth with? Who do you need to say that hard
thing to? Because the type of connections
that are available when you pullthrough all of that prickly
stuff, like, it's just different.
It's just so. Different.

(01:00:06):
It's always been the uncomfortable conversations that
has ever healed me in any way. And it doesn't mean you have to
publish your book. It doesn't mean you have to
start a podcast. It doesn't mean you have to tell
the world on social media your deepest, darkest secrets.
You do have to tell somebody youfeel safe with.
Yeah, do it for. You and and it might not be your
partner of 20 years. Maybe it's your therapist first.

(01:00:26):
Maybe it's just your friend. Like maybe it's just a piece of
paper first. I remember I tell this all the
time. Like the first time I started
setting boundaries with my husband was very early on.
But like I literally like wrote it on a piece of paper and said
it out loud to him while like. I practice it.
You can't, baby. Yeah.
Because I couldn't, I did not have enough like courage and

(01:00:48):
like voice capacity to do it. I was shaky.
I was like, like the whole body flush.
Like, I know that feeling like we do.
We all know we've been there. It's not fun to assert yourself
and ask for what you need and say, this is what I'm OK with
and this is what I'm not. And you know, if I don't have my
needs met, like, then I need to find them elsewhere.

(01:01:10):
Like this is life. That doesn't mean you know you
don't stay and work on things. But this is also, I think,
another thing. You can tell the paper too,
right? Like I had one of my clients be
like, I used to journal, but it was like, today I did this and
that and that. And she's like, when I started
working with you, it was like, it was the first time I ever
wrote my truth. Like I wrote like today fucking
sucked and I hated this. And she's like, I was trying to

(01:01:31):
be so positive and loving lighty, but it was lies.
So working through that shit nowI actually am writing bright
stuff again, but it's not because like, what if someone
reads this when I die? I want it to look good.
It's like, I've actually there, you know?
And like a lot of what I encourage clients to do is get a
voice note on your phone and make your podcast for yourself
to yourself. You never have to share it, but

(01:01:52):
even hearing yourself speak yourtruth or listen to it back
later, you'll get so much more clear on who you truly are.
And like, write it on a page. Like get it out.
Get it out of your body in some way.
You do better out than in, like Shrek says.
Shrek is a God. Was there anything else you
wanted to share about your business?
Like do you want to share a little bit about how you work or
what you do like? I'd be curious.

(01:02:12):
Yes, so I have a nervous system reboot like self-paced program.
So it, it's, it's mostly more like I guess for beginners, but
it's a self-paced program for nervous system regulation and
all that stuff. And then I work 1:00 to 1:00,
either a four week program or a 12 week program.

(01:02:33):
And then you have the back end to all my healing resources.
So I call it my graceful growth program.
But it's all like my healing library of everything.
And I I walk my clients through.I called the ABC's to healing.
So the golden ABC is always be connected.
So you've got to be connected toyour body, like somatic to me, I

(01:02:53):
think is the most direct and valuable way to heal.
Like talk therapy has its time and place, but you need to be in
your body to actually, because that's where the work is.
You need to feel safe and so always be connected as a golden
ABC. And then awareness, OK, what's
going on? How am I feeling?
You know, what's my nervous system like?

(01:03:15):
Am I being mindful? All the awareness stuff?
What are my limiting beliefs? What's my limiting language?
All that awareness, then boundaries, OK, what are the
boundaries I need to put in place?
Maybe it's an internal boundary,maybe it's an external boundary
and why do I have trouble setting boundaries like getting
back behind that? And then the self compassion is
the compassion. So ABC awareness, boundaries and

(01:03:37):
compassion. And then the compassion
component goes a little bit moreinto the inner child and the
shadow work and all that jazz. So yeah, I well it.
Sounds like we do such similar things and that's why I'm so
excited to talk to. You.
It's all the same shit. Different toilet, right?
That's what. I and yeah, and pick your tool,
right? There's so many ways to access
it which please people do something.

(01:03:58):
Yeah, but I, I, you know, going back, I really do believe when
the student is ready, the teacher appears like we can't
for like I could have never beenforced.
You could have told me you couldhave beat me over the head and
said meditating, do yoga. I would have been like, fuck
off. Like no.
I'm not like on this portal. I know people who are listening
are already curious, right? They're edging themselves with

(01:04:18):
this sort of content. So I'm very playfully would be
like, are you done yet? You know, like, Are you ready?
Are you ready? You tell me when you're ready.
Yeah, I'm here. I'm not going.
We got friends. Look, I got friends.
We'll hope you. If it's not me, it's her.
Find somebody like. Exactly.
And like the more we can like have conscious women empowered
people, empowered people, it is what it is.

(01:04:40):
And hurt people hurt people. So I'm always like, yeah, if
it's not me, somebody else. Like yeah, the and the more we
can elevate the consciousness with conscious women getting
more money and conscious women hands.
Like this is what we want in theworld.
Totally to do more from love instead of fear.
So exactly. Well, that's really beautiful.
Do you want to just say goodbye and tell us about where we can

(01:05:02):
find you? What the name of your book is?
Even though it's like, I love that you're just like, don't do
it. Like it's all.
Emoji. Yeah, put that shelf there for a
reason. So my book is called Trust the
Flames. You can buy it anywhere They
sell books. Amazon is usually the quickest.
My website is my name. Katie, dellemon.com, DELIMON,
all of my Instagram, Tiktok, Facebook, all of that is the

(01:05:24):
same thing. It's just Katie Dellemon.
And yeah, that's me. Amazing.
Thank you so much for your time and for sharing a bit about your
story. I love that now people can go
read your memoir and and learn through it.
It was like, it's such a good expression of like, yeah, here's
the journey, but also here's some of the way out, you know,
and I'm curious to see what elseyou create in regards to self
healing tools and stuff like that for people to to.

(01:05:46):
I do have a lot of free resources, so if anybody wants
like I've got 10 hidden traumas.It's a guide to look at the
overlooked trauma. I've got a boundary script.
I have 28 guided meditations. All of that is free if you just
go on my website. So a lot of free giveaways and
even if you just message me likeand you have questions like I'm
obsessed with this. So please reach out all.

(01:06:07):
Right. Well, thank you so much, Katie.
Thanks everybody for listening and we'll see you next time.
Thank you so much for being here.
If you got value from today's episode, it would mean the world
to me. If you would like it, give it a
five star review, share it with a friend or share it on your
socials. And I would love to connect with
you on my socials at Veronica Jane under score on Instagram

(01:06:31):
and www.veronicajane.com where you can access links to all my
offers and events. Remember, we're always
unbecoming. What isn't us to become what is.
This isn't me.
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