Luna Endures: A Redwood's Survival Tale

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Doug Still (00:00):
Luna is a 200 foot tall redwood tree that stands

(00:03):
like a tower on a ridge deep ina privately owned forest in
Northern California. Her bark istwo feet thick, and she has a
gnarly, multipronged top thatspeaks of maturity and
complexity. Luna is known as ashe, that's just the way it
happened. Except for anoccasional ground fire, she'd
lived in peace for over athousand years. But the 1990's

(00:25):
brought a rapid change. Thetrees around Luna began falling,
almost all of them. Logging hadoccurred before, but not like
this. The sound of chainsaws,helicopters and crashing trees
filled the air. But soon afterthe men in orange hard hats came
to Luna's Ridge, other peoplefollowed. Instead of carrying

(00:47):
saws, they carried backpacks,tools, and ropes. They climbed
Luna, built a platform, and satin her branches. They often came
at night under the moonlight.
One of them ended up staying atthe top of the tree for two
whole years, a blip and Lunaslifespan but a crucial one. The
loggers went away. You mayremember hearing about the

(01:08):
remarkable Julia Butterfly Hill,her two year "tree sit," and the
activist efforts of Earth Firstto save this wonderful tree and
shed light on the indiscriminateclear cutting of redwood
forests. But soon after anagreement to save the tree was
reached, and the national newscleared out, another crisis
arose that threatened Luna'sexistence. It brought in new

(01:29):
heroes, and ushered in a new eraof collaboration. Stewart
Moscowitz of the nonprofitsanctuary forest joins me today
to tell this whole story, anddescribe his own special
relationship with Luna, alongwith guest Dennis Iniguez, a
consulting arborist who was partof the team that saved Luna a
second time. I'm your host DougStill, and welcome to This Old

(01:54):
Tree.

This Old Tree song - Dee L (01:57):
This old tree, standing here for more
than four centuries. I wonderwhat you'd say if you could talk
to me about what it's like tobe, this old tree.

Doug Still (02:15):
Stuart Moskowitz is a board member of Sanctuary
Forest, a nonprofit land andwater trust in Humboldt County,
California. Its mission is towork with surrounding
communities to conserve andrestore forests and watersheds,
and they provide educationalopportunities such as public
hikes, scholarships and holdingpublic meetings. Since 1999,

(02:36):
Stuart has been the lead monitorof the "Luna Covenant" an
agreement made between thePacific Lumber Company and Julia
butterfly Hill to preserve thismagnificent redwood tree and the
conservation easement createdaround it. For 23 years, Stuart
has been balancing his careerteaching mathematics at Cal Poly
Humboldt State University, andcaring for Luna. Stuart, a warm

(03:01):
welcome to you.

Stuart Moskowitz (03:02):
Thank you, Doug. I appreciate you putting
these podcasts together verymuch. Thank you for including
Luna.

Doug Still (03:09):
But before we get into Luna's story, I was hoping
you could describe her for ourlisteners. You've made the trek
through the forest to visit thetree probably hundreds of times.
Could you tell us what you seewhen you arrive? What does it
feel like to stand below her?
Could you take us there with adescription?

Well, Luna is deep inside private land
holdings currently owned by theHumboldt Redwood company. To get
to Luna, because of theagreement that was made it
Sanctuary Forest has the rightto go and monitor Luna at any

(03:47):
time. And so I will notify theHumboldt Redwood company that
I'm going to go to Luna. I havea key that I can open a gate and
then we drive about 20 minutes.
Now of course, when Julia wassitting in the tree, her ground
support team had to do all ofthis discreetly because they

(04:09):
were trespassing. But now wehave permission. So we drive
about 15 or 20 minutes up themountain. We then have to hike
another 15 or 20 minutes about,oh ,three quarters of a mile
from the end of the road. Wewalk across the top of a very
dramatic mudslide. That was partof the reason that Luna was

(04:34):
chosen for a tree sit. And thenwe get to a grove that has not
been touched for 23 yearsbecause it's part of the
protected zone. So Luna issurrounded by lush new growth.
There are a few other big treesbut not very many. You have to
take a lot of advancedpreparation just to be able to

(04:59):
get there and to get thepermission to get there.

Doug Still (05:03):
How long does it take?

Oh, well, we ended up you know, it's always a
full day trip by the time we'reup there and back. It's very
steep and very rugged. Sometimeswe obviously have to go slow.
Sometimes I'll take my walkingpoles because it is that steep.
Nothing technical, but it reallymakes you appreciate the

(05:28):
steepness of just how risky itis to log on steep slopes,
because that's what caused thelandslide, these steep slopes.

Doug Still (05:38):
Right. And so when you get there, what do you see?
What do you smell? What do youhear?

It's a very quiet place. It's a very damp
place. There's very littlesunshine that reaches the base
of Luna. It's a rather protectedlittle spot. When you get there,
Luna has two big goose pens,which are big burnt out cavities

(06:06):
that are called goose pensbecause in old days,
occasionally, someone might puta fence across the entrance to
this cavity and could keep theirlivestock inside it. And often,
the first thing I will do istake off my pack and just climb
inside this goose pen and sitdown with my back against Luna,

(06:30):
and just sit there quietly,

Doug Still (06:32):
What are the tree's dimensions?

Luna stands about proximately 200 feet tall,
and her diameter is probablyabout 12 feet across, which
gives her a circumference ofclose to 40 feet. Because it's
so steep, when you're on theuphill side, you're up above

(06:54):
that flair. But even when you'reup 10 feet higher than the
downhill side, the girth isquite dramatic. Now, of course,
the largest redwoods can be canbe 20 to 25 feet in diameter
with with occasionallycircumstances that are 70, 80,
and even even more. So as Lunais not the tallest. The tallest

(07:17):
ones are 380 feet. So Luna isnot the tallest, and it's not
the biggest. But it's definitelythe biggest upon this particular
ridge.

Doug Still (07:27):
Yeah, it must be pretty impressive when you're
coming up the hill to look up,the exaggerated height from that
view.

Well, it was more dramatic twenty years ago
when we started doing it, whenthere was all these fresh clear
cuts that they had been logging.
And there hasn't been muchlogging on that hillside. So a
lot of it has grown up and wedon't get to see Luna much
anymore from a distance.

Doug Still (07:52):
That's a good thing it sounds like.

We can still find Luna from way down below or
down in the valley. I can stilllook up on the ridge and pick
out Luna from a distance. But Idon't like to point it out too
much, because we still know thatthere are people that are
unhappy with Luna being aprotected tree up there. And
we'll get into that story herein just a little bit.

Doug Still (08:14):
But that protection from other trees from wind and
just the elements, I thinkthat's positive development.

Absolutely.
Absolutely. And the winds havebeen documented - when Julia was
up in Luna, she winds arerecorded as high as 90 miles an
hour. [Wow] So yeah, that bufferzone of other trees is critical.

Doug Still (08:36):
How old is Luna? And how do we estimate that?

The estimate is about a thousand years old.
The only way to definitivelytell the age of a tree is to use
an increment borer, which is atool that you will, it
basically, you screw this thistool into the tree and you
remove a very small cylindricalbit of wood and you can count

(09:04):
the rings.

Doug Still (09:06):
It's drilling the tree.

But it's actually drilling the tree. They
say it doesn't damage the tree.
That's always questionable. Lunahas never been bored. One thing
that I have learned from thebiologists and the arborists
that have assisted us is that aredwood tree doesn't get its
distinctive old growth look forat least 500 years or more. When

(09:29):
a big, big redwood tree stillhas a shape like a Christmas
tree - the symmetry of what manypeople imagine in a big conifer
- that typically means a youngertree. It can take hundreds of
years for the asymmetry toexist, where a redwood will have

(09:50):
multiple tops. There will bedamage to the top and then other
tops will come up. Some of theoldest and biggest redwoods will
have 30 or 40 or 50 tops, soagain an symmetrical look. And
Luna very, very distinctlystands out when you can get back
away from that ridge and look onthat ridge. Luna really is the

(10:13):
only one with that asymmetricaltop. So there's not many old
growth trees left up on thatridge anymore.

Doug Still (10:21):
Where does the tree exist in relation to the
Headwaters Grove? And what typeof forest surrounds the tree?

So as I said, Luna is deep in private
holdings, the Humboldt Redwoodcompany is the current owner.
It's about 250 miles north ofthe Golden Gate Bridge, and the
Humboldt Redwood company ownsabout 200,000 acres of land. So
that covers many hundreds ofsquare miles of land. The

(10:48):
Headwaters Forest was, 25 yearsago, the largest intact old
growth stand that was still inprivate hands, and that made the
headwaters Grove a target, and agoal of activists to get it
protected. It's probably, as thecrow flies, only about 10 or 15

(11:12):
miles away from where Luna sitson another ridge. As I said,
Luna is not sitting in an oldgrowth forest. Luna was probably
left behind the first time theloggers came through because of
her asymmetries. Luna has twotops, and is not as pristine as
what the loggers might want. Soit possibly got left behind for

(11:34):
that reason. So headwaters isabout a 7,000 acre grove that
was protected about 25 yearsago, and that the timeframe is
the same as when Julia Butterflywas sitting up at the top of
Luna. So Luna sits way up highon a ridge and it's surrounded
by cutover, redwood and Douglasfir coniferous forest.

Doug Still (11:57):
So when they're logging this area, they're using
both Douglas fir and theredwoods, right? What do they
use Redwood lumber for?

Redwood lumber is known for being incredibly
disease resistant, incrediblyfire resistant. My understanding
is that redwood is the only woodin California, where building
codes allow, you know it's theonly wood that can be in contact

(12:27):
with the earth, can be incontact with dirt because of its
resistance to rot. So redwood isvery valuable in that regard.
It's got a beautiful color.
Historically, in the late1800's, they thought of it as a
resource that would never bedepleted. So many of the oldest
houses around here are builtfrom the ground up with redwood

(12:49):
or completely framed with

Doug Still (12:52):
I wonder if its ability to withstand rod is one
redwood.
reason why redwoods live solong.

I'm sure that has must have a lot to do with
it. And the bark can be two feetthick. And that can withstand
fire tremendously. Of course,it's not perfect, and that's why
you do see burn scars.

Doug Still (13:15):
It depends on how severe the fire is.

Of course, and the longer we go suppressing
fire. You know, there's been alot of news lately about the
size of the fires in California,because when the fuel on the
ground builds up, and there's alot more fuel to burn on the
ground, that makes the firesthat much hotter. But because we

(13:41):
are in a coastal zone, wehaven't gotten those large fires
that have burned throughCalifornia in these last few
years, and they pretty much havenot affected us as much here on
the coastal plateau.

Doug Still (13:56):
What kind of wildlife do you see living on
the tree or near the tree?

Certainly there are deer. There are black
bear. There is mountain lion.
They're the largest animals thatare in those woods. We also have
elk that are in these forestsand on the prairies. Fox,
squirrels, chipmunk. We havemartins. We have raccoons that

(14:20):
are all around but don't seethem very much. What is quite
remarkable is that 200 feet upin the air Julia wrote about
seeing animals up at the top ofthe tree that we would only
expect to see on the ground. Youdon't expect to see ground

(14:41):
squirrels up high in the air andcertain amphibians would be
there. But that's something thathas been studied in recent
years, that redwood canopies canhave their own entire ecosystem,
all in one tree.

Doug Still (14:58):
Who are the indigenous peoples that were
here before people of Europeandescent.

The land that Luna sits on was historically
the Mattole people. The MattoleWatershed, the Mattole River, it
runs close by. But I have to saythat this part of California,
this part of the PacificNorthwest, has more tribes than

(15:23):
any other part of the continent,and so there's a lot of overlap.
So if you look at a map you'llsee the Mattole right there
where Luna sits. But the Wiyotpeople, the Wailaki people, the
Yuroks, I mean, there were manytribes that would work together
and interact through there.

Doug Still (15:44):
So working up to the time of the tree sit, which was
1997, who owned the land there,and had it been logged much
prior to that?

The Pacific lumber Company goes back to the
late 1800s. It was one familyand I'm trying to, I'm trying to
remind myself of the name ofthat - it was the Murphy family
that owned it in the late 1800s.
They were the ones that built upthe vast acreage that they had,
and they logged it I will saysustainably. They logged it at a

(16:18):
rate where they probably couldhave kept logging it perhaps
forever, with 200,000 acres. Andthen in the 1980s, they went
public. Maybe was in the 1970sthat they actually went public.
And I want to mention The LastStand by David Harris will tell

(16:39):
this story quite well, of howWall Street took over the
redwoods. When Pacific LumberCompany went public, there were
entrepreneurs elsewhere that sawa publicly owned company with a
vast amount of real estateholdings. And so at the same

(17:00):
time that in the 1980s when thejunk bond disaster was
happening, and people likeMichael Milken, were using junk
bonds to buy up tremendousamounts of I'll say various
companies, there was the MaxxamCorporation owned by Charles
Hurwitz, that saw thisundervalued, publicly owned

(17:24):
company, and he started buyingtheir stock. And as soon as he
was able to get a majorityshare, he tripled the rate of
cut that was happening on theseforests. So we never saw large
clear cuts before the 1980s. Butthen when Maxxam took over, and
with a huge debt that they hadincurred in order to make the

(17:46):
takeover happen, they had toincrease the rate of cut. And
clear cuts started showing up.
And that's what startedattracting activists and
protesters to come to theseforests, which is why you will
often hear that the redwoodswere sort of the center of the

(18:07):
of the timber wars back in the70's and 80's and 90's.

Doug Still (18:11):
You mentioned that mudslide. Was that in 1997 or
96, sort of right around there,when they were clear cutting the
hillsides of the mountains?

Yes, it was New Year's Day 1997. Everything
pointed to that it was the rateof cut, it was the increased
clear cutting that caused thismudslide which buried seven
houses at the bottom of themountain right in full view of
US Highway 101. So it became apublic relations nightmare for

(18:42):
the Pacific Lumber Companyhaving this, you know, this pile
of mud right there by thehighway. You know, it's not just
the cutting of the trees thatincreases the risk of
landslides. Probably it's thebuilding of roads and landings
that have even more impact onthe integrity of the hillside.

Doug Still (19:03):
And that's when Luna, in all her glory, got
noticed.

That was New Year's Day, 1997, and yes. They
continue to log up on thathillside in the vicinity of the
mudslide, and that's whatattracted Earth First to target
that hillside for a tree sit andLuna was the largest tree. And
so different activists, theyrotated sitting in Luna for

(19:32):
several months in early 1997.
And it was towards the end of1997 when Julia Butterfly Hill,
a young woman who was recoveringfrom an automobile accident, 23
years old and looking forsomething to change her. You
know, she felt a calling to comeout to do something in the

(19:56):
redwood forests. She reallydidn't know much about it, but
she attended a meeting that was,you know, that the sitters and
the activists were holding. Theytook a lot of planning and a lot
of ground support in order tokeep these tree sitters
supplied. And no tree sitterever stayed up for more than a
couple days at a time.

Doug Still (20:17):
Right. But that system was in place already.

That's right.
I believe that the platform thatwas put 180 feet up in Luna, and
installed during the dark ofnight, which is where the name
Luna came from, meaning moon, asthe platform was built in the
moonlight. Julia volunteered totake a turn up at the top of

(20:40):
Luna. She had never climbed atree before, but they showed her
how to climb and she got herselfup to the top. And I think what
made Julia different from theother tree sitters is that she
is articulate, and could speakto the cause well. And once she
started talking, and peoplestarted listening, she stayed.

(21:05):
Of course, never dreamed shewould stay for two years. Sort
of the assumption was that thesetree sitters were dirty and
grubby and filthy hippies, youknow, that that were sort of the
dregs. I mean, you know, theywere not treated well. But Julia
didn't fit that stereotype atall. And because she was 200

(21:29):
feet up in a tree, her voice -people paid more attention to
her voice. And I have used thephrase that Luna acted as sort
of like a microphone and areceiver. I don't know, if
people would have listened toJulia, they certainly didn't
listen to other activists on theground. But the fact that she

(21:50):
was risking her life 200 feetup, and month after month after
month, got people to startlistening to her. So Luna
provided that platform.

Doug Still (22:03):
I remember the story from late 90's on the East
Coast. And I think when Imention it to most people, they
know about it and remember that.
Would you say that it was one ofthe most successful
environmental direct actionsthat has occurred?

Yes, and it makes me - thank you for
reminding me of my daughtersaying to me, "But Dad, it's
just one tree. What's the bigdeal, Dad, you know, she saved
one tree." But I think it's morewhat that one tree symbolized
and the fact that that one treegave Julia a voice that was

(22:45):
heard, and continues. Lunacontinues to be a symbol for
that movement.

Doug Still (22:52):
When did you first hear about the tree sit? And
when did how did you getinvolved initially?

My first direct contact was on the one
year anniversary of the treesit. So it would have been
November of 1998 that there wasa rally held right there on the
mudslide, right there wherethese houses were still buried.
There was a a rally that broughtseveral 100 people. There were

(23:20):
celebrities that came, therewere activists that were there,
there was a lot of speaking,there was music, and then there
was an invitation tocollectively trespass and hike
up the ridge to go visit Luna.
So I hiked up the ridge withabout 300 other people. But I
also was a relatively new boardmember with the Sanctuary Forest

(23:41):
Land Trust. And we had anattorney on our board at the
time. His name is Herb Schwartz,who was part of the team that
was doing the negotiatingbetween Julia and the Pacific
Lumber Company. Julia said shewas going to stay in Luna until
Pacific Lumber Company agreednot to cut it down. And she was

(24:04):
going to stay there. So as astwo years starts to come around,
and the company realizes thatshe means it, she's not coming
down, I think the fact thatthey've got this young woman in
her early 20's, sitting 200 feetup in the tree on their land,
risking her life, they finallysaid okay, after two years that

(24:29):
they would negotiate and let'sget her down before she gets
killed up there. So Herb waspart of the team that drew up
the agreement, that wrote theagreement that Julia and the
Pacific Lumber Company signed toprotect Luna. And a nonprofit
land trust is required to bethat third party to act as not

(24:53):
so much an enforcer, but amonitor of this agreement. So
Sanctuary Forest was invited totake on the role of being the
primary monitor of this Lunaeasement, this "Luna Covenant"
that was created.

Doug Still (25:10):
What are the contents of the agreement?

Basically, on a map, they drew a 200 foot
radius circle around Luna andsaid that nothing can be done
inside this 200 feet. That 200feet provided a buffer zone for
any surrounding timber harvestactivity that would be done,
keep that activity away fromLuna. It also gave Luna a place

(25:35):
to fall and land in a protectedarea, you know, if and when Luna
were to fall. So this documentdefines the land. It also
defines who can access Luna, andessentially only the Sanctuary
Forest monitors and Julia havethe right to enter the property.

Doug Still (25:55):
And that was signed December of '99?

'99, that's right. When Julia signed it,
fortunately Herb Schwartz, theattorney, happened to be a
certified notary. And so heclimbed his first redwood tree
to go and get her, to witnessJulia signing the document. When
she had Herb's notarizedsignature, then Julia came down

(26:22):
to the ground after that.

Doug Still (26:24):
Then probably starting in January of 2000 you
started monitoring the tree.
You're the lead monitor? [Right]Then you encountered a crisis.

But then we had a crisis.

This Old Tree song - Dee (26:38):
Music

It was Thanksgiving weekend of 2000,
when one of our board membersgets a phone call from one of
the activists who had been partof Julia's ground team. And he
had continued to go up to Lunaon his own even after even
later. And he discovered freshsawdust in a chainsaw cut in,

(27:00):
you know, Luna had been cut witha chainsaw. And so he
immediately called us, and thatwould have been, you know, we
had an emergency board meetingon that Sunday after
Thanksgiving. And Mondaymorning, several board members,
and we had we had a countysheriff, we had a private

(27:20):
investigator. A crime had beencommitted, this was direct
vandalism. We went into thecorporate offices of the Pacific
Lumber Company to tell themthat, you know, a crime had been
committed, that the easement hadbeen violated, and we needed to
get up there right away toassess the damage. And so, oh

(27:44):
goodness, there must have been15 or 20 of us that went up that
day. We had foresters from thePacific Lumber Company, we had
our own foresters, we had thelaw enforcement. We also had
some people from the CaliforniaDepartment of Forestry as well.
So we had the environmentalistsand the loggers and the

(28:05):
government agents all up thereto assess the damage.

Doug Still (28:08):
And what was your response when you first saw the
damage?

It was horrifying. It was horrifying.
It looked like they did not tryto cut Luna down they went more
than half way around but justdid a horizontal cut. If you're
going to cut down a tree, you goin on one side and you will
remove a wedge and then you'llcome around on the backside to

(28:31):
do a back cut on the oppositeside from the wedge. Well, no
wedge was ever taken out, noback cut was ever put in.

Doug Still (28:38):
So it wasn't about cutting down the tree. It was
about killing the tree

It was about killing the tree, it was about
killing the movement we think?
About hurting Jullia and hurtingthe activists in an indirect
way.

Doug Still (28:54):
So you put together - you and Sanctuary Forest put
together a team to assess thedamage and, you know, treat the
tree.

So we called Save the Redwoods Lee which is
based out of San Francisco, fourand a half hour drive south. We
called Save the Redwoods Leagueand said, explained to them what
we had on our hands, and askedthem if they had any expert
arborist that knew how to workon large redwood trees. And that

(29:25):
night, the President of theAmerican Society of Consulting
Arborists and one of the Savethe Redwoods League's leading
arborists, his name is DennisYniguez - left his Berkeley home
and drove all night Monday nightand showed up Tuesday morning
and went with us to Luna Tuesdaymorning.

Dennis Yniguez (29:44):
This was not just girdling the tree. This was
a plunge cut with a chainsawthat probably had a 36 inch bar.

Doug Still (29:53):
Here's Dennis Yniguez today, the owner of Tree
Decisions out of Berkeley,California. He's a Registered
Consulting Arborist, or RCA, ofthe American Society of
Consulting Arborists, of whichI'm also a member.
What were your first thoughtsafter seeing the cut in person?

Well, it was a huge cut. A few of us showed up
the next day on site, and we hada contractor's tape and snipped
off the end of it so it wouldfit into a narrow saw curve, and
we could measure the depth ofthe cut. It was about 32 inches
deep, and Luna at that height ofthe cut, which is oh, I don't

(30:35):
know, two and a half feet abovethe ground, Luna's 11 feet
thick. And the cut was about 60%of the way through the cross
section of the tree. And therewere two cavities in Luna, an
uphill and a downhill cavity,before the cut was made. [Right]
It's very common for these oldgrowth trees to have openings in

(30:57):
them. They're fire resistant,but sometimes a very intense
fire at their base will manageto get through the bark and burn
the tree. And Luna had twocavities that are significant,
you can stand inside both ofthem. So somebody had apparently
done a plunge cut right in themiddle of the tree and just,
just went from left to right asfar as they could around the

(31:20):
tree without felling it. Theycut enough so that the saw curve
was facing the direction ofprevailing winds. And the next
big storm would have had a 200foot lever. It is 180 to 210
feet, whatever the height is, orwas at that time. And it would
have had a huge leverage to pushover Luna. The circumferential

(31:46):
percentage of living cambiumfrom the roots to the crown was
probably about 25%.

Doug Still (31:53):
Could you explain for our listeners what the trees
cambium layer is and why it's sovital?

It's absolutely vital. The cambium is like an
envelope or a sheath around thecircumference of the tree
beneath the bark. And it'sliving cells that are
meristematic, meaning they canproduce several different kinds
of cells. And they produce cellson the outside called the

(32:21):
phloem. And the phloemdistributes the carbohydrates,
the sugars that are made by theneedles of the tree and
photosynthesis. And on theinside of the cambium, it
produces xylem, which is thewood of the tree that conducts
water and minerals, dissolvedminerals, in an upward flow from

(32:42):
the roots to the top of thetree. It's absolutely essential.
It's the living part of thetree. The middle of a huge tree
like that is mostly nonlivingtissue.

Doug Still (32:52):
Yeah, I think of it like a cylinder just below the
bark.

Thank you! In one sentence, you've said it.

Doug Still (32:59):
And they had cut through the bark and through the
cambium layer.

Oh, yeah. And it was severed from top to
bottom. So the structuralstability was gone in 60% of
that tree.

Doug Still (33:12):
Had you worked with redwood trees before, and what
makes them challenging?

Oh, redwood trees are yes, I worked with
them before and quite a bit.
Redwood trees are amazing. Theyare one of the most resilient
trees that I've ever heard aboutor worked with. They have the
ability to uptake moisture, in away - it's called Interlocked
Sap Ascent, and water from allaround the tree arises in a

(33:42):
zigzag pattern beneath the bark,so that by the time the water is
only about 10 feet above ground,it may well have gone almost all
the way around to the other sideof the tree. So water is raised
in a diffuse pattern. There's noone to one relationship between
a severed root and the branchesabove that root. [Interesting]

(34:05):
Yeah, so redwoods can nourishthe entire crown and uptake
moisture and distribut it in adiffuse manner, which is a huge
survival tactic. They also cando direct foliar absorption of
water from the fog. They cantake it right out of the fog,

(34:25):
right through specializedneedles. And they also have
leaves that do what's calledguttation, which means drip, fog
drip. And a lot of that is takenup again by the roots, they can
pull the water either directlyfrom the fog. They can have fog
drip and then it comes upthrough the roots. So this

(34:45):
direct foliar absorption is onething that probably had a lot to
do with Luna being able towithstand.

Doug Still (34:56):
I was gonna ask if this sort of diffuse water
absorption system, ordistribution system -it helped
the tree in this case, didn'tit?

Oh, yeah, I mean, it must have. And also,
redwoods have a habit, whichthey've evolved over 150 million
years, to be grafted toneighboring trees. And so it is
entirely possible that otherredwoods around Luna were
connected to the surviving rootsystem of Luna. And we don't

(35:27):
know, but the trees around Lunamay have been playing a part in
assisting Luna's survival.

Doug Still (35:33):
Right, although a lot of the trees had been
removed through the logging, butthere was some left.

Oh, definitely.

Doug Still (35:40):
So you were concerned about the tree's
stability with the prevailingwinds. So you prescribed
installing brackets.

Yes, I don't want to take all the credit for
that. We had a team of people,and I'll tell you. There was a
state forester that was workingwith Pacific Lumber Company, the
company that Julia wasprotesting against, and there
was a private forester, also,who was called to be on on the

(36:09):
team to go up and inspect thedamage. And there were a few
other folks too. There was anengineer from Arcata. And the
brackets that went on the treeare made of half inch thick
plate steel. And I think thebolts that are used from top to
bottom above and below the cutare one inch thick, possibly

(36:34):
thicker, possibly one and aquarter, I don't remember. And
there are five pairs of bracketson the area that was cut. We
went out after Pacific LumberCompany had kept four of their
machinists working overtime tobuild these brackets. The same

(36:55):
day they were designed, theywere built. And we hiked in
about six o'clock that night,and some people went in by truck
some hiked in and carried in thebrackets and carried in some of
the gear. And Pacific LumberCompany had designated a driver
to park on a landing on a flatabove Luna where some of the

(37:16):
logging trucks had been. Andthey went up in a logging road
and took in a generator andhundreds of feet of electric
cable, and ran about 300 feet ofcable down from a generator down
to Luna. So a team of about Ithink there were six or seven of
us worked, oh, for somethingover four hours. And we had

(37:39):
klieg lights and powerful drillsand lag bolts and the brackets,
and we were able to put those inthe tree before the storm came.
And the storm broke that night.
At 11:45 or so, we werefinished, we were walking up and
out of the hill and back to somevehicles, and the storm broke.
And nobody knew if Luna wasgoing to make it.

Doug Still (38:03):
Sounds like quite a team.

Doug, it was great. And one of the people in
the team was from PacificLumber. So this event brought
everybody together to work andtry to make sure this tree
didn't go over.

Doug Still (38:19):
Ironically, the cut heightened the cooperation
between all parties.

It led to heightened cooperation. And if
anything, I think the cutprobably had the exact opposite
effect of what the intent of thecut was. Instead of to
demoralize the movement, itactually energized the movement.

It was an adventure, I'll tell you,
because we forgot what's called"a splitter" when we walked
down. The splitter is a devicethat can take the electrical
current from a cable, and itgoes into a "Y" so that you can
put two devices on the cable andhave them be powered with
electricity. So we had to choosebetween the drill and the
lights. So we'd light up thetree and place the drill. And

(39:00):
then we'd turn off the lightsand plug in the drill, and we
kind of did that. A few peoplehad flashlights. But it was an
adventure. Great fun. Greatteam. I should tell you the
brackets are not the only thingholding Luna up.

Doug Still (39:13):
So in addition to the brackets, there was also a
cabling system installed. Couldyou describe that?

Sure. So the brackets were put up on Tuesday,
you know, installed by Tuesdaynight. But we knew that those
brackets which were bolted intoLuna right at the base, nobody
really expected that to hold upover time. So at that point,
with the news out of what wasgoing on, I started getting

(39:41):
emails and phone calls fromarborists, from engineers, from
biologists, from chemists fromaround the world. Architects
telling us what we had to do tosave Luna. Sending us these
diagrams with these cablingsystems, you know, we got to put
some guy wires up on Luna uphigh, you know, and tether, her.

(40:04):
All different kinds of ways todo it. It was Tuesday that those
brackets were put in place.
Julia was out of state when itall happened. She came back to
Humboldt County, and onWednesday, came with us up to
Luna. A very, very emotionaltrip up to Luna for sure. And
then had a press conference backin Eureka that afternoon to

(40:26):
explain to the world what hadhappened. And I remember at that
press conference that a man cameup to me, introduced himself.
"My name is Steve Salzman," andhe's an engineer, and he wants
to help in any way he can.

An engineer, Steve Salzman, designed a cable
system along with Steve Sillett,who's a Humboldt professor and
Jim Spickler, who was acolleague and is now doing a lot
of work up in Humboldt Countyand actually different places
around the world. They designeda cable system and anchored it

(41:05):
at about 100 or 110 feet withthree cables that are anchored
into the base of other smallerredwoods in specific locations
around the tree. And they wentup. I was not with them when
they went up to put the halfinch cable around the tree. As

(41:26):
you know, as an arborist, youcan't girdle the tree with
cables, as the tree willcontinue to have radial growth
and it'll end up choking itselfoff. So they use vertical wooden
slats. And they wrapped a cableabout four times around these
vertical slats. And thatprevented the cambium from being
fully compressed. And it's atechnique that they've used in

(41:49):
eco-forestry. And there's agentleman named Paul Donohue and
his wife, Teresa Wood, who cameup with that idea. And with
Steve Sillett and Jim Spickler,they managed to install this
anchorage point up at 100 feet.
And the way they ran a line fromthat anchor point was to use

(42:14):
crossbows and shoot lines down.
Steve Salzman was the engineerwho went out and identified the
base of the trees that they'd beanchored to it, and they'd shoot
across a line with a crossbowdown from that anchor point. So
they get a straight cable runwhen it was time to pull the
cables up.

Doug Still (42:32):
How has the tree responded to the brackets and
the cabling system? Is the barkgrowing around the brackets or
have adjustments been made?

Oh it's doing great. Luna is amazing. It was
pretty sketchy for a while, Imean, for the first year, year
and a half, Luna look prettygood. And then we knew that
there would be die back in thetop, regardless of all its
resilience and survivalmechanisms. That's a huge, a
huge blow to the system to have60% of the cross section

(43:10):
completely severed. So over timenow, Luna has closed off a lot
of the curve that was cut, andhas built what look like huge
burls over some of the area ofthe cuts. And it's kind of
holding steady on top. It has,oh, I don't want to put a

(43:32):
percentage on it because Ireally don't know, but maybe 15%
die back over on the top of thetree? But Luna's making it. We
all knew Luna would make it.
It's amazing. I don't know of itever happening before. I don't
know of a situation like this.

Doug Still (43:48):
Who was Cherokee Bear Medicine Healer, Byron
Jordan, and what did he propose?

So the brackets got put in place first.
And then the cable system tookanother two months. And that
took care of the structuralfirst aid for Luna. But we still
had biological first aid, andemotional and spiritual first
aid as everybody around waswanting to approach this from,

(44:16):
you know, from all thesedifferent angles. And I had all
of this advice from people abouthow to heal Luna. You know, from
the biologists from the chemistsfrom the herbalists. And Julia
said, "Whatever you do," shesaid, "I'm not invested in the
specifics, but please, whateveryou do for Luna, make sure it

(44:40):
comes from the earth. Nothingsynthetic."

It was important to Julia to really try to find a
way to use a balm, or use somekind of poultice, or some
solution on the tree where thecuts were made. And that was her
intuitive feeling. And I can'tbegin to speak about the depth

(45:07):
of her connection with the treeafter living with a single tree
for two years up in the canopy,but when she has an intuitive
feeling about what's right forthe tree, I just really want to
listen to what her feeling isabout it, and to respect that.

And she gave me the name of Byron Jordan, a
Cherokee Bear Medicine Healer -earth medicine healer. He lived
in Cambridge, Massachusetts atthe time. And so she gave me
Byron's phone number. Byron hadreached out to Julia and offered
his help. And you know, if hecould be helpful, he wanted to

(45:46):
help. And so Julia gave me hisphone number. And we had some
very interesting phone callswhere he explained to me that
the best thing to put into thiscut would be clay, from a source
as close as we could get toLuna. He said, clay is a natural
healing agent. He said, clay hasbeen packed on wounds by

(46:11):
indigenous people since timeimmemorial. He sent Jesus healed
a blind man with clay. He said,he's, you know, and so if you
can pack that with clay, that'swhat you should do. And then
Byron also offered, he said,"The only thing better than clay
is bear saliva." He said,"bear," he said, "saliva," also

(46:32):
powerful healing agent. He said"All, no matter the species,
animals will lick their woundsto clean themselves." He said
that bear saliva, he said,"there's probably a bear up
there licking that cut rightnow." He said to me, he says,
"so if you can get some bearsaliva and mix in with the clay,
that would be perfect." I wassort of hesitating at that

(46:54):
point. And he did offer, he said"It's hard to get," he said.

Doug Still (46:58):
I imagine so!

So how are you going to get bear spit? Well, it
turns out, I wasn't up inHumboldt County when this
discussion was going on aboutwhat to do. And they divided up
the responsibilities into kindof a treasure hunt for who would
come up with what mixtures forthis tree. And for some reason,

(47:19):
I got nominated to get the bearspit. So I don't know why. I got
a call one evening, maybe nineo'clock, and they said, we're
going to do this poultice. And Ihappened to know the director of
the zoo over in San Francisco,the director of the botanical
part of the zoo. And I calledhim at 10 o'clock and said, Tom,

(47:40):
can you get me any bear spit?
And he didn't find that to be anunusual request, because he had
received a good number ofrequests for the urine of lions
and tigers and all that.

Doug Still (47:54):
That wasn't the first type of request he
received like that.

Not really, well, I don't know if it was the
first one for bear spirit, butthey get unusual requests from
people who want to keep deer outof their yard and all that. They
want the urine of predators. Soanyway, he said, "Well, we don't
have any black bears here at thezoo, but I know where you can
locate a black bear." And itturns out there was a black bear

(48:20):
named Rosemary who had beenorphaned in a fire. And she was
in the zoo up in HumboldtCounty, and so I wasn't there.
But I heard that a small team ofpeople went to visit Rosemary,
and they brought chocolate chipcookies and celery, and they fed

(48:44):
her chocolate chip cookies.
Reached through the cage bars,fed her chocolate chip cookies,
and then she starts salivatingand they put a piece of celery
in her mouth, and then they wereable to withdraw some bear spit.
And that was mixed in with theclay. It sounds out of this
world. It sounds so foreign.

Doug Still (49:03):
I'd spit out the celery after having chocolate
chip cookies too!

[laughs] Sure.

I think part of the whole mystique of this
whole story is that, I'm amathematics professor, you know?
Taking care of a tree especiallylike this is not part of
training. [Doug laughs] I'm ascientist, you know? And here I
am using bear saliva and clay toheal a tree. You know, how did

(49:30):
it how did this all happen? Andone side of me says, "Stuart,
you don't believe any of this."But then, it's happening. You
know, it's happening, and I'm inthe middle of it.

Doug Still (49:41):
What is the "Essence of Luna?

[laughs] So, one of the things that Julia did
over the course of the two yearswas she made a tincture. While
she was 200 feet up, shecollected bark and lichens and
various little plants andsticks. And she, and she steeped

(50:06):
it and made a tea out of it, andshe made a base for what she
eventually called the "Essenceof Luna." And she gave me a
little bottle with a dropper andasked me to give some of this
back to Luna every time I visitLuna. It's sort of similar to

(50:27):
other homeopathic remedieswhere, you know, if you or any
of the listeners are familiarwith the Bach flower remedies.
The Rescue Remedy is somethingyou know - it reminded me a lot
of Rescue Remedy, to give backafter a trauma.

Doug Still (50:44):
You are quoted in one of the Sanctuary Forest
reports as saying, "Luna isresponding with the wisdom of
more than 100 million years ofevolution in order to regain her
balance." So as an expert, howdoes it help to be humble?

Oh, my God, I don't know much about humility.
[both laugh] I think it's aconstant effort. It's a constant
effort, everybody has a tendencyto want to elevate themselves.

Doug Still (51:17):
It sounds like you were responding to the people
who had an emotional attachmentand emotional investment in this
tree. And you were alsoresponding to the tree itself,
and your knowledge of thespecies.

You know, it was a great gift to be able to be
involved in this project. Andwhat's so beautiful about it is
that it really brought peopletogether. And it's been almost
23 years since Julia came downfrom the tree, and our politics
have gotten more divisive, and alot has happened in the world.

(51:56):
And it's easy to see the kind oflower nature that sometimes
comes out in folks. And to seethe best in people come together
for a really great purpose, thatwas inspiring. You've you've
heard from Stuart, who is theguardian angel of Luna, he's
been rock solid for 23 years,going up regularly to Luna. And

(52:22):
it's amazing how the the love ofLuna and the love and
appreciation of Jiulia continuesafter all this time.

Doug Still (52:33):
The story of Luna is so well known that Luna is sort
of like a tree celebrity, in away. People know that name. They
know the tree, they know thestory, or a lot of people do.
And you spoke about the power ofthat. But are there any
drawbacks to that sometimes? Andwhat's the balance between
sharing Luna with the public andprotecting the tree?

Well, the timber wars, many of the
loggers, much of the timberindustry blamed the
environmentalists for not beingable to log trees the way they
used to. And so yes, we're veryprotective about keeping Luna's

(53:18):
location a secret. And one ofthe things I can appreciate
about Sanctuary Forest, is thatwe're not like Earth First. We
don't take direct action. We arenot out there sitting in trees,
or blocking roads, orvandalizing equipment. We
believe - and we don't believethat logging should stop. We

(53:40):
recognize that, you know, thatlumber is a very important
building material and that's notgoing away. And so we take an
approach of working, trying towork cooperatively, trying to
work side by side to come tosome agreement. And that's one
reason why I really appreciatethat we've been able to develop

(54:03):
this relationship with PacificLumber Company and now even more
so with the Humboldt RedwoodCompany.

Doug Still (54:11):
Do you think Luna could live another 1000 years?

Redwoods don't die of old age. I think we've
come to realize that. That theycan live on and on and on. And
so with that in mind, I wouldsay yes. And what Luna has
demonstrated - in some ways Lunahas become an outdoor
laboratory, because it's notoften that you can study

(54:36):
something that's been vandalizedlike this, that's been cut like
this. And she's demonstrated howstrong she is, that she can keep
going.

Doug Still (54:44):
There's clearly a bond between you and Luna that
is unique and special. And I'msure Julia and any of the other
people who've cared for Luna andbeen a part of the story have
similar experiences, but intheir own way. And I bet some of
our listeners today are thiningright now about a tree in their
lives, that means somethingspecial to them on an emotional

(55:05):
leve, and I put myself amongthem. Are we eccentric? Normal?
Or somewhere in between?

[Laughs] Oh, wow. How about all of the above?
You know, like I said, mybackground, I'm trained as a
mathematician, as a scientist.
This is not what I was raised tobelieve in. But these last 23
years of my life I've beenexposed to and I have

(55:37):
experienced things that I neverdreamed I would have ever
experienced. Is that eccentric?
Probably a little bit. Yes,probably. Probably some. But
it's real. It's happening.
You're right, I have becomeattached to this tree. Partially
because of Luna herself. And youknow, it's just, Oh my goodness,

(55:58):
it feels so comforting to bethere, you know, to sit in one
of these goose pens and leanback against Luna. It's a very
special feeling. But Luna hasenriched my life. The people
that I have met over the years -you included, Doug, you know, I
mean, the people that haveinterviewed me the people that I

(56:19):
have taken to Luna. Seeing suchdiverse perspectives come
together to work side by side.
In that regard, there's no wayto discount the effect that Luna
has had.

Doug Still (56:35):
Thanks so much. I really enjoyed our conversation.
Thank you for coming on theshow.

Thank you for doing this, Doug. You know, I
appreciate it because this ispart of what keeps the story
alive. So I'm delighted thathere we'll have another
opportunity to share the story.

Doug Still (56:53):
I hope you've enjoyed hearing the story about
Luna the redwood tree,especially from the perspective
of Stuart Moscowitz, the leadmonitor of the Luna Covenant
from Sanctuary Forest. It took aspecial person in Julia
Butterfly Hill to sit in Luna'scrown for two years, and a
dedicated crew of supporters tohelp. But it's just as

(57:13):
meaningful for someone to devote23 years to taking care of this
beautiful redwood and what shesymbolizes. You can donate to
Sanctuary Forest and help themcontinue to do all the good work
that they're doing, by going totheir website at
sanctuaryforest.org. I'll putthe link in the show notes.
Thanks again to Stuart, and muchappreciation to Dennis Yniguez

(57:36):
for coming on the show to sharehis expertise and experience in
this wonderful story. Before weend, we do have a Tree Story
Short for you. Here's CarolKingsbury telling us about an
historic elm tree she knewgrowing up in Dedham,
Massachusetts.

Carol Kingsbury (57:52):
When I was a kid, I had a 1958 sky blue
Schwinn bicycle that I wrote allover Dedham, Mass. When I would
ride down East Street on my wayto Dedham Center for a root beer
float, I would pass by thishuge, very old tree. One day I
stopped to look when I noticed aplaque in front of it, which

(58:13):
said Avery Oak. Its trunk wasthe biggest I had ever seen, and
there were scarred places wheremajor branches had once been. I
knew Dedham was one of theoldest towns in Massachusetts
because the Fairbanks House wasjust down the street, and it is
the oldest wood frame structurestill standing in America. But

(58:36):
here was this living thing thathad been there for hundreds of
years. Wow, I thought. Thepeople who built that house went
by this tree every day. Even atthat young age, I had a glimpse
into the relativity of time, andan appreciation of all that this

(58:56):
tree had witnessed. I rememberbeing sad when I read in the
paper that a thunderstorm hadfinally taken it down in 1972.
The article said that theywanted to take the tree to build
the USS Constitution, somethingabout the twists and turns of
the woods being perfect.
Folklore has it that Mrs. Averyis the one who said "absolutely

(59:18):
not!" Good girl.

Doug Still (59:27):
And I'm going to end it there. I'm Doug still, and
thank you, tree lovers, forjoining me today on This Old
Tree. If you like to show, oneway to show your support is to
hit the "subscribe" button onyour podcast app, and that way
we're easy to find the next timeyou want to listen. You can get
links and information about ourguests in the show notes,
especially a list of books anddocumentaries done on Luna and

(59:48):
Julia Butterfly Hill. You cansee photos and other related
tree stuff if you follow ThisOld Tree on Instagram or
Facebook, and now on Mastodon.
Also, if you'd like to submit aone to three minute Tree Story
Short about an important tree inyour life, you can record it on
the voice memo app on your phoneand email it to me. I'd love to
hear from you. Here's arboristand songwriter Dee Lee to take

(01:00:11):
us out. Thank you for joiningme.

This Old Tree song - Dee L (01:00:14):
This old tree, standing here for more
than four centuries. I wonderwhat you'd say if you could talk
to me about what it's like tobe, this old tree. Shadow and

(01:00:35):
shade, kids down the block areselling lemonade. Send them down
to cool

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

24/7 News: The Latest

Therapy Gecko

The Joe Rogan Experience

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Luna Endures: A Redwood's Survival Tale

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}24/7 News: The Latest

Therapy Gecko

The Joe Rogan Experience

All Episodes

Luna Endures: A Redwood's Survival Tale

24/7 News: The Latest