#18: Visibility Creates Opportunity: How to be a great podcast guest with Orlando Haynes

Episode Transcript
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Rhona Pierce (00:00):
There's a powerful way for recruiters to build
their personal brand withoutcreating tons of content. And my
guest today is going to teachyou how to do it.

Orlando Haynes (00:09):
Visibility creates opportunity. However,
you can do that because we'reright now, we're in the digital
age space. And so you just haveto be exposed depending on what
your intentions are.

That's Orlando Haynes, a recruiter and
podcaster who has created theultimate guide on how to be a
great podcast guest. You heardthat right. We're not talking
about starting your own podcast,but how being a guest on a
podcast can help boost yourvisibility and attract
candidates, clients, andopportunities. In today's

(00:43):
episode, we cover how to choosethe right podcast to appear on,
strategies for staying authenticwhile on air, how to handle
unexpected questions like a pro,common mistakes to avoid as a
podcast guest, technicalconsiderations to ensure you
sound and look your best, andhow to maximize the impact of

(01:05):
your appearance long after therecording is done. Whether
you're an experienced podcastguest or considering your first
appearance, this episode ispacked with actionable advice to
help you make the most out ofyour podcast appearances.
Let's dive in to my conversationwith Orlando. Hey, Orlando.
Thank you so much for being heretoday. I'm excited to have you

(01:28):
on the show.

Thank you so much, Rhona. I appreciate it.

So I saw the other day that you wrote a really
great guide about how to be agood podcast guest. What
inspired you to write it?

You know what? It's been because I've been
doing it for almost 4 years nowbeing on this side of the seat
as a interviewer. You know, nowbeing in the interviewee seat,
it's something that I've noticedthroughout multiple episodes.
Plus, I've watched otherpodcasts that sparked that
journey, and I always wanna makesure that whoever I have on is

(02:02):
promoted and highlighted in thebest way. Right?
So that's what we're doing.We're making sure we can
showcase that individual, theirtalents, or expertise, whatever
it is. And so I wanna make surethey know that coming on to any
podcast affords them thatopportunity so they can shine.
Then as you talk about postproduction and things like that
to where they can leverage thatpodcast, you know, for marketing

(02:25):
efforts and things like that. Soif it doesn't look right,
doesn't sound right, then it's amiss both for the, you know, the
the podcast host and the and theguest.
And so I just wanted to share alittle bit basic tips to say,
hey. If you're going down thisjourney, here are some basic
fundamental things, you know,you should look out for so you
can maximize, you know, yourpodcast appearances.

So it's great that you mentioned how it's a journey
that people want to go on, andwe know in talent acquisition as
recruiters, we get it. Personalbranding is important. If you
really wanna be successful, youhave to work on your personal
brand. I think usually whenpeople talk about it, they're
talking about creating content.And I'm someone that says you

(03:09):
don't necessarily have to createyour own content.
And I think that being a gueston a podcast is like a cheat
code shortcut to building yourpersonal brand without having to
create content. How do you thinkbeing a guest on a podcast can
help your personal brand?

That's a great question. And so what what came
to mind when you asked that iswhat I talk about with job
seekers. Right? And so I telljob seekers, hey. Leverage other
recruiters, or should I say,leverage recruiters.
Reach out to a recruiter andgather 3, 4, 5, 10 people that
you know that are looking, thatare in your, you know, in your
market, in your ecosystem, thatare friends, and ask that

(03:51):
recruiter to say, hey. Can youcome on this Zoom call and just
share some best practices? Andso a lot of recruiters don't get
the tap to be necessarily be ona podcast just within their
market, more or less, you know,bigger podcast to get some
recognition. But the value inbeing a guest is that you can
share your brand in but there'stwo sides to it. Right?

(04:14):
So I look at it as as apodcaster that when I have
guests on, I'm creating multiplemarketing, you know, members of
my team. So I've done over a 140episodes right now. So that's a
140 individual marketers thatcan promote that episode, you
know, if it was a good qualityepisode. And then on the
reverse, I can talk to all thethings that I've learned

(04:37):
throughout that journey, who Ispoke to, and things like that,
but also leverage my experiencein that. So I think what I call
it is called VCO.
It's just visibility createsopportunity. However, you can do
that because we're right now,we're in the digital age space,
and there's a great book by Garyv calling Day Trade Attention A

(04:58):
lot of people are grabbing at,and that's when he talks about
how to be visible everywhere tomaximize sales, opportunities,
etcetera. It's because we're onthis we're in the social media
age, and so you just have to beexposed depending on what your,
you know, your intentions are.Don't do it just to do it. But
if you're doing with anintention to grow so you can

(05:19):
create opportunities, you can.
And I always look at it too thatjob seekers can leverage
business practices for theircareer when it comes to the
marketing. So they can choose tocreate content or, like you
said, get on podcast and share,vlog their own journey, things
like that. It doesn't have to beextensive. You don't have to
have pull all the triggers, butit does help because you're

(05:42):
creating eyeballs to your yourLinkedIn profile that can thus
result in a snowball effect foryou to get opportunities.

And I love that VCO, visibility creates
opportunity because it's true.And as recruiters, you're
competing, especially in amarket like this one, you're
competing. Yes. There's a lotmore jobs than job seekers right
now, but that doesn't mean thatpeople are just taking any job
or working with any recruitertype of thing. So visibility is

(06:13):
good.
Attention is good for attractingopportunities and candidates and
all of that. But how do youdetermine which podcasts are a
good fit for your expertise andfor your target audience and
your brand goals?

Yes. A great question. I would only look at
ones that are in the sameecosystem as me. It's funny. I
used to didn't think that waybecause I used to think, hey.
You know, more exposure is moreexposure. Your message won't
land with the wrong audience.And at that point, you just
wasted, you know, 45 minutes, 30minutes, an hour of your time
and the host time to jump onthat podcast. So there was one

(06:49):
opportunity that I got to itwasn't a podcast, but it was a a
virtual speaking opportunitywith a $1,000,000,000 financial
company here in Florida. But I'mthinking it was about career
stuff, but it slightly was.
It was around African Americansand corporate America. And so I
was like, okay. You know, it wasBlack History Month, and so they
they funded that opportunity. Iwas like, okay. How much you

(07:11):
know, what's my angle?
What can I share in this space?It wind up being good because I
was able to give my journey, myexperience through being in
corporate for 20 plus years. Andso there's different folks on
there. But when I look at whereI'm going to plant my message,
who I'm going to partner with,And I also think about it, does

(07:31):
my brand fit that brand? Evenwhen I request guests, I wanna
make sure that I'm asking them,does this fit your brand?
I can clearly see there's asynergy, but I wanna make sure
they see it too before they justraise their hand to come on. And
I've rejected folks who werejust not in the same space. I'm
not gonna talk about things thatdon't resonate with me or don't

(07:52):
fit my beliefs. One companyreached out, they did cannabis.
I was like, I'm not gonna haveyou on talking about cannabis.
That's not. Right. That's mybelief. I I don't partake, so
there's no need for us to, youknow, to meet. But it it has to
be in that same careerdevelopment ecosystem, and
there's there's so manymultilayers as as you know as
well, Rona, that I I don't wannanecessarily pigeonhole to say my

(08:16):
only message is, you know,personal brand and, like, we we
share that in common, but it'stalent acquisition, it's
recruiting, it's all the otherancillary things that come with
it, resumes, etcetera.
I can share a level of expertisein that. So if it fits again in
that ecosystem, I'm able to sayyes. I necessarily don't care

(08:36):
what the audience level is, howlarge it is, but I do wanna know
that the messaging is addingvalue if it's just just to have
a conversation and there's nodirect to actually help people,
that's not a fit for me. I needto know that I'm going to help
people anytime I open my mouthon my own podcast or anyone
else's.

You've said some really good things, and it's
it's so important. 1st, youreally have to know your goals
and what your real goal is withyour personal brand. And that
really helps you be like, okay.No. This isn't aligned or this
is aligned.
The other thing that youmentioned is something that I
see people fall into that trap.It's like, well, I don't wanna

(09:18):
be on that podcast because it'snew or I don't know how many
listeners they have. I see itmore as as long as I'm aligned
with what the podcast is about,as long as it's aligned with my
goals, I don't really care howmany people listen to it because
I'm gonna use that content too,and I'm gonna share. I know my

(09:41):
audience. I know how many peopleI have.
So it's a mutually beneficialthing because maybe I help the
podcast host get more eyeballson their podcast. I know people
with way larger audiences thanmine have come on my podcast,
and that has helped. But, also,people that are in my audience

(10:02):
who because, I mean, you can bea large creator, but you don't
necessarily have everyone'seyeballs. So people from my
smaller audience have been like,oh, I didn't know about this
person and about theirexpertise. So, really, it's all
about your goals and how italigns with your personal brand
and metrics like that, like sizeand and things like that aren't

(10:25):
really the best thing.
What about people that unlikeus? So, yes, we are in talent
acquisition, and you, forexample, also do career coaching
for job seekers. I workspecifically, yeah, with talent
acquisition and HR people. Butwhat about recruiters who are

(10:46):
recruiting, I don't know, let'ssay, in the trucking industry,
for example. What type ofpodcast do you think or how can
they determine what type ofpodcast would be aligned with
their brand?

Yeah. I I don't think for them if they should
look at just super niche.Because again, let's let's take
the trucking industry as yousaid. You gotta think how many
truck drivers listen to careerrelated podcast and so and then
there's a separator. Are theycreating a podcast from the
business?
So they're talking aboutindustry specific stuff, you

(11:22):
know, policies, what's happeningin the market, what the shift
is. Because I work for a companywhich was heavy logistics and
had drivers. And so thoseconversations I was a part of,
and we knew how many driverswere leaving the market, like,
literally 100 of 1000 by 2020and 2021. So we had that data.
And so that's something theycould have shared on a podcast

(11:44):
to just say, okay.
Hey. We're a source ofinformation in this in this
logistics and transportationindustry. Here's why you should
listen to us. If a recruitertargeting candidates, then it's
a little more specific anddifferent in their
communication, at least from myopinion. I think they can share
more stuff about the theculture, the opportunity.
Here's what's going on. Also,some data around the industry,

(12:07):
so it's a bit of a mix just sothey can, you know, data mine
folks and and get some, youknow, build their talent
pipeline. And so thatcommunication's a bit different.
I think they can still go broadversus going super, super narrow
because you may just lose theaudience. And you also gotta
think at least the way I do.
It's not so much if I can hitthe 1st person because that

(12:27):
first person may not be myaudience. But they may know
someone, and they may knowsomeone. So creating that
trickle effect, that snowballeffect in my communications,
they may say, hey. Hey, Rona.You know, I just heard this this
podcast about trucking over atthis company called, FedEx.
Right? Doesn't your brother havea CDL license and things like
that? Hey. I think he shouldcheck it out. They sound like

(12:48):
they're hiring, etcetera.
But I'm in finance, but I knowyou, and I happen to know your
brother is in it. So there'sthat trickle effect that can
happen as long as theinformation, I think, is
relevant enough to an audience.Now I would've listened if I
woulda listened and it wasspecific around, hey. Here are
the numbers that's happening inthe market and nothing was said
about hiring opportunities. Iwoulda bypassed it.

(13:11):
I was like, I don't knowanything. You know? I don't care
about that. I'm skipping it.They're talking about hiring.
It just so happens to be in thetransportation and logistics,
you know, industry. So I thinkrecruiters who are looking to do
that, if they're corporaterecruiters, and also I can share
later on about what an agencyrecruiter would talk about then,
there is a little bit of a mixbecause there there's a

(13:33):
difference between those 22types of recruiters.

What's the difference? What would an agency
recruiter talk about in thisexample?

Yeah. So I would think therefore, there's a great
opportunity for that agencyrecruiter to share personal
stuff and their expertisebecause they're gonna say, hey.
I specialize in accounting andfinance. You know, I work in
these markets, you know,California, Nevada, etcetera,
and I only focus on directorlevel and above. And here are

(14:03):
the types of roles I look for.
CFOs, senior finance analyst,directors of finance accounting,
comptrollers, controllers,etcetera. And so they can then
highlight where their level ofexpertise to hopefully draw the
right attention to the folks.And there's different ways you
can do it. When Clubhouse if youremember Clubhouse, when they
came out, there was large techcompanies that were hosting

(14:25):
talks about the organization,and that was their way to create
talent pipeline. Well, we haveLinkedIn audio now.
Why not do the same thing?Right? If you know you you have
a a massive hiring need, why notthe organization reach out and
saying, hey. If you're an agencyrecruiter, I work for 3 large
companies in the area, whetherthey're big 4 or not in
accounting or whatever it is inthat area. Here's what I'm gonna

(14:48):
be sharing.
Make the post, make it 30minutes or 4 an hour, and just
speak to what the opportunitiesare. And then what you can do
from there it's it's justanother way of talent pipeline
creation, but it also helpstheir personal brand because
they'll they'll know, hey. Ronadoes this every 3 weeks or once
a month strictly aroundaccounting and finance positions
director and above. I'm thatcandidate. I need to know what

(15:11):
she's talking about.
And so, again, you share theopportunity, share your
expertise, share marketrelevancy. And so now you're
creating this belief andperception around you, which it
should be true, that you're thego to person in that market for
these types of roles. And that'sa standout thing versus the
traditional model. And,unfortunately, staffing and

(15:31):
recruiting staffing agencies,that model is broken. It's been
the same for, I don't know, 40plus years.
And so I think they desire a mixup in you work with folks like
that. So that's they need thatmix up and how to create more or
less a small media company tobuild their personal brands,
build the the brand of thecompany, but become expertise,

(15:53):
their thought leadership,etcetera, so they can attract
the right system. I mean, nowthat creates multiple talent
pipelines, versus just lettingthem apply to the ATS. Right?

Yeah. So okay. Now listeners are aware of their
goals. They know which podcastto target. What's your approach
or what approach do yourecommend to pitching yourself
as a guest on a podcast?

You know what? I rarely do. So I rarely pitch
myself. I've been lucky enoughto been asked for a few times,
and plus, I've been so focusedon growing my podcast. And so
when I do this again, I thinkI'll just reverse engineer.
My earlier answer was, yeah,does it align? And I actually

(16:39):
built out a list of podcasts inthe space that I'm a start
pitching to. So it's not likeI'm not going to do it. I have
it, but I just been so focusedto so I can capture, you know,
some great talent and sharesome, expert advice and create
additional opportunities formyself as well. But at the same
time, I said, you know what?
Now is now is a good time. I'vebeen doing it for years. It's

(17:00):
getting a little visibility.It's heard across, you know, 16
countries. Great.
And so how do I leverage that tothen say, hey, when you partner
with me as a guest, here's whatI'm also bringing to the table.
So I wanted to build up someequity on that aside from, you
know, 20 plus years, talentacquisition, author, speaker,

(17:20):
etcetera, which I think a lot ofus are doing. But for us, folks
like us who have that dualitybackground in a podcast, while
also bringing expertise, quote,unquote, expertise, and then an
audience with us. So I thinkthere's more weight, gravitas,
and, you know, exposure to thatto say, hey. I'm also bringing

(17:40):
my I'm not just happening toyours.
I'm bringing my audience to youas well. So this is definitely
gonna be beneficial. And sothat's what I wanted to do, and
that's how I'm going to packageit all, not just my experience,
but also the podcast weight andleverage and reach of that. So
hopefully, that helps into to,you know, to expose me to more
podcast. And, again, it has tobe in that ecosystem.

Yeah. So both of us have podcasts, and we have an
audience that we've been workingon for years. A lot of the folks
that are listening don't have ahuge audience or don't really do
a lot as far as their personalbranding. So let's kind of
reverse engineer this. How doyou go about figuring out who

(18:26):
you should invite to yourpodcast as a guest?

Yep. Great question. So it doesn't matter
to me the so I do a lot of mysearching on LinkedIn. Alright.
That's the that's the bestplatform in my estimation.
And so I don't look at whetheryou have 10,000 followers, 50, a
100 plus. It doesn't matter. Ilook at the content because I

(18:50):
wanna see what the messaging is,and are you adding value? So my
tagline for for career talkspodcast is providing actionable
advice for your career and life.And so when I talk to guests, my
goal for every single episode,Rhona, is that some someone
listening can say when I had youon mind a few years back is that

(19:13):
what she said made sense.
I'm going to apply it today, andI should start seeing a
difference in my job searchefforts or interview or my, you
know, growth to getting hired,etcetera. Whatever the topic is,
they need to at least walk awaywith one golden nugget from each
episode that they can applyimmediately. And for me, it's

(19:33):
about taking massive action. Soimmediate massive action, which
Tony Roberts talks about a lot.And so or imperfect action or
commit first, figure out therest later.
Right? So just really centeredaround that. And so when I look
at a potential guest, it's whatare they saying? What are they
sharing? Is it antiquatedinformation?

(19:54):
Is it up to date? Because ifit's antiquated, I don't need
that. If it's up to date, ifit's different angle, I wanna
hear it. And so then that's whatmakes me reach out. Again, I can
care less how big theirfollowing is.
It doesn't matter. It's themessaging because I'm thinking
about the listener first toextract one nugget and go apply
it.

Yeah. It's very similar to my approach. And as
you said, I have been on a fewpodcast. I've never actually
pitched myself. I think Ipitched myself once to a live
show many years ago, KamaraToffolo, who's actually full
circle gonna be on my show soon.
I pitched myself to her way backwhen, and that's the only time

(20:37):
I've ever pitched myself for apodcast. Every other time it's
been the host that has reachedout, but it's been because, hey.
I saw your post about this or Iwas in their comments. They
posted something and I commentedsomething and they're like, I
like that your approach. Let'stalk about it more.
Do you wanna come on my podcast?Mhmm. So indirect pitching might

(21:02):
be a way. And for recruiters,this is easy. You're already
doing it.
You're already networking orshould be Mhmm. Out there
creating any type of like, smalltypes of content or in the
comments that could lead topodcast

Yep.

Interviews request. So

So I've been lucky enough now that I
necessarily don't have to reachout only because I get pitched a
lot of folks from companies thatspecialize in getting you on
podcast. And so if I were toaccept 5% of those, that would
book me out quite a bit. But forsome reason, I'm just enamored

(21:41):
by, LinkedIn, so I stay on thatplatform because I can see the
content. It's easier for me tosee it versus gets pitched, and
then I have to go look. If theirtalking points don't align, then
no.
But I've been blessed that way.And one of my secrets of staying
consistent is just making sure Ibook, like, 3, 4 months in
advance of guests. So, again,it's that commit first, figure

(22:01):
out the rest later.

What's the best pitch that you've got from a
guest that isn't a PR company?So, yeah, we know they're
experts. But, like, someone justin their house wants to be on
your podcast. What's the bestone? Do you remember it?

I don't know if I got a great pitch because they
do come at least every week. Icouldn't say it's not a high
frequency from from LinkedIn,but it's enough to where, again,
I can book. But I don't thinkanyone necessarily stood out
because I'm always gonna look attheir content. But there's
additional ways that I find isif it's an audio event, whatever

(22:39):
event, and I'm like you justmentioned, right, in the
comments. And that's why it's sokey to have your LinkedIn
profile optimized in that headerstand out.
I can see exactly what they do.The first sentence is career
coach or grief coach or thewhatever coach, and I'm like,
oh, okay. Executive coach. Letme just quickly see. Did I
quickly go to what's their,activity on the profile or on

(23:02):
the platform?
So I just wanna make sure thatthey're active. Now if they're
they can have this grand oldtitle and beautiful headshot and
beautiful banner, But if there'sno activity, I'm like, they're
all they have is a profile. Theydon't have a presence. I do need
people who have at least apresence. Like, they're actively
posting, putting out content.

(23:22):
It doesn't again, the followingdoesn't matter, but they're
engaging and and sharing in thatinformation. So but no slam
dunk, like, woah pitch that camemy way that that I can recall. I
guess if you follow them highprofile people that were, you
know, that are in our ecosystemof career development, like,
Wall Street Journal bestsellers,New York Times best selling

(23:44):
authors, international speakersas well that are actively on the
platform and literally travelaround the world speaking. And
so been lucky to have thosefolks, you know, join the
podcast early on. Well, I hadzero following, kinda podcast,
you know, acumen, etcetera.
But they're willing to alwayscome back and and share some
information. So I I appreciatethat.

Yeah. I the the main takeaway is, like you said,
have a presence, not just aprofile. Because as a podcast
host, it's also a big risk thatyou're taking if you invite
someone on your podcast that youknow nothing about. There's no
content, you don't know whatthey really think, it's like,
that's a huge risk. Yeah.

(24:26):
I know I'm not willing to take arisk to invite someone who I
know absolutely nothing aboutand find out during a recording.
I like, it's that's notsomething I'm gonna do.

No. And I do mine live, so that's that's even
the the second layer. So I I dothe live capture try to capture
that audience then repurpose iton audio, etcetera. But, yeah,
never I would never take thatrisk, and they say something
completely off whack orinappropriate. And I wanna make
sure, you know, no one's usingfoul language, etcetera.

(24:57):
And so that would be a highrisk. And I always thought that,
like, what would I do? Would Ijust kill the broadcast right
right in the middle of it? So II say, you know what? To avoid
all that, let me fact check whothese people are and, you know,
do the intro before the go livedate and and and talk through
logistics.

Exactly. So alright. Let's say you've
pitched yourself. You are goingto be a guest on a podcast.
What's your, like, go tostrategy to prep when you're
invited as a guest on a podcast?

Yeah. So it depends on the topic. Well, my
strategy would be the same. Sothe topic may require me to do a
little more research thananything else. As a podcaster,
you know, we all have differentstyles and approaches.
I'm more of a free flowingperson, so it I personally don't
give the guest any upfrontquestions. And if it's given to

(25:48):
me, that's fine. That all worksbecause it's still a
conversation. Right? Anythingcan happen in a free flowing
conversation.
So it all depends on who theaudience is too. Right? Because
you you try to be authentic asmuch as you can, but there's
still a level of, okay, this isa little more audience that's a
little more, for lack of abetter term, more prestige or

(26:11):
stuffy. So, you may not can beyour full self because it it it
just won't land. Right?
Certain jokes for a comedianwon't land in a certain
audience, so you have to tailorit. So you have to know more
about the audience. Who is itfor? What's the community like?
What are they really what'stheir pain point so I can speak
directly to it again so they canwalk away with the actionable
advice.
And then, you know, I do theresearch. And I practice I'll

(26:34):
put some slides together if justfor myself, but then I'll make
sure in my head, I'm I'm goingover talking points and and
knowing what I wanna bring upspecifically in the discussion
and also what points I wannaharp on. Right? We all we've get
we'll we've given talks andpresentations, and so there's
certain parts of it you wannaemphasize. So I'll walk through
the mechanics of that.

(26:55):
But by no means am I a, aspeaker coach. But things that
I've learned, I'm sure you'velearned as well, Rhonda, through
through our experience is thatyou wanna be able to get the I
think of the end goal in mindis, okay. Again, when I finish,
you should be able to takesomething I've said, if not 1,
2, or 3 things, and immediatelyapply it. And I would always

(27:17):
love to hear the feedback. Oh,it was this.
It was that. And the the funnypart is whether it's a podcast
or live, I kinda approach thosethe same. It's always too you
really don't know if it'slanding, even if they're
laughing with you and thingslike that, until someone comes
up and says, hey, Rhonda. Whatyou said about this in the
personal branding piece, oh mygod. That was incredible.

(27:41):
I I know what to do now. I can'twait to apply it on x and that's
why I'm like, okay. It worked.Okay. It was okay.
At least one person saidsomething.

Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, that's all
you can do. You can reallyresearch, and I love that you
are talked about the audiencebecause, yeah, lots of people
focus on researching the host.That's cool and everything, but,
like, you're there, hopefully,so that the listeners of this
podcast can learn something. Soresearching who they are and

(28:12):
tailoring your prep to them andtheir pain points is really a
great way to prepare for apodcast.
Mhmm. Now how can you make surethat you stay authentic to
yourself, your brand message,and your goals after you like,
you're prepared, you knoweverything about the audience or

(28:35):
as much as you can. How do youmake sure that you stay
authentic in your answers?

Yeah. That's true. So I would never take on
an opportunity that I'm notversed in. So even they can you
know, because you can get asked,hey. I've you gotta and for the
folks who may look at it, Ronahas a big brand.
She's doing this. She should beable to talk about this. Orlando
does this. He should be able totalk about that. Well, not not
exactly.
If you've done the research orlooked on our websites or even

(29:00):
just looked, you know, at ourprofiles, we don't specialize in
that. So in my corporate job,part of the role I do is in the
DNI space, but I wouldnecessarily never go on a panel
as a DNI expert. Like, I'm notgonna do that. I'll get eaten
alive. Right?
And so I would never positionmyself into that. Even though

(29:22):
it's in the career ecosystem, Iwould never take that leap and
say, hey. Yes. You know,diversity, inclusion, equity,
all the different, titles orletters that it's that's,
attached to it now.Unfortunately, it's being
dismantled, but I would nevertake that chance.
Now the specialties that Italked about earlier, that's

(29:42):
what I would do. I'll stay in mylane. I'll stay in my lane and
focus. Being authentic, mypersonality is gonna come
across. I know I my voice is I'mconscious of that.
It's monotone. So I have to beconscious as, conscious of how I
relay that. How do I lift my,you know, my tone? And it's
funny. When I always hear itback, it still sounds the same.

(30:03):
I'm like, oh my god. I can't donothing. So so I'm aware of
that. My hand gestures, my myfacial expressions, not to
create a false narrative of whoI am, but it may be something
I'm saying that you can see theincrease in passion. It's like,
oh, he's really talking aboutthis one right here.
He's he's going a little bitdeep or maybe long winded, like

(30:24):
I feel I am now. But it's thosemoments that I think about and
just saying, hey. I'm a I'm atell you who I am. I'm not gonna
give you this gravitas of 20years and all this, and you you
can read about that. You cameyou asked me to be here to speak
about something.
Let me impact your audienceagain so they can walk away
something, actionable. And sothat's my that's what I think

(30:47):
about what being authentic is.Who am I helping at the end of
end of that message, talk,podcast, conversation, etcetera.

How do you make sure for, like okay. Let's say
folks are going to do this. Thisis they're gonna be their
personal branding strategy.They're going to be on podcast.
Mhmm.
How can they make sure thattheir message is is coming
across consistently overdifferent podcast? Right?

So I think about that in in terms of an actor or
a Broadway actor or comedian.Right? So a comedian who goes on
tour will tell the same jokeswith a slight twist night after
night after night. Right? Sothey have to master their first
set, whatever that set is, andthen tweak it per audience to

(31:38):
make it funnier or to fit thataudience and to make it funnier.
So for us, as folks who take onspeaking opportunities, we
should, I think in my head,right, apply that same principle
is you're gonna change it alittle bit here and there, but
stay on message. Like, yes. Itit can get boring repeating
yourself, but that's the goalbecause you go on 1 podcast.

(32:01):
That's not every podcast. Youmay capture 10 people.
You you if your goal is tocapture a million, you better
keep saying that message overand over and over. And if, like,
you see actors go on apromotional tour, they're being
asked probably the same 10questions over and over and
over, so they have to repeatthat same messaging. Right? Just

(32:22):
so more people will hear it. Itresonates, and that's how really
from an external looking in yourbrand is building, and that's
where you're changing thenarrative, and you're being
known for x.
Rona is known for x. Orlando isknown for x because I heard it
in Amsterdam. I heard it inGermany. I heard it in the US
and California and Florida,etcetera. But if you've only

(32:44):
told it once thinking it's gonnaland for the masses, you're
wrong.
So be comfortable. Be able tosay that same, you know,
whatever that topic is. Haveyour your core several topics
that you can speak to. But,yeah, there'll there'll be some
variance because over time,things change, so you have to
tweak and update the data. But Ithink that will be the best way

(33:05):
to look at it, becauserepetition is what makes it
better, and then that wouldcommunicate to the masses.
You you just have to continue tosay the same thing over and
over.

Yeah. I always say, and I've said in a few
episodes before, when you'rebored of the saying the same
thing, that's when you knowyou're doing great.

That's good. Yep.

Because you've said it so many times. It's now
like second nature just rollsoff your tongue type of thing.
It's like, you know it. It'syour thing. That's when you can
be like, okay.
That's when people start makingthat association of Orlando is
is the person for this. Rona isthe person for this. That's when
you start building your brand,when you repeated it over and

(33:48):
over and over again. Yep. So howdo you handle unexpected
questions?
Like, in the middle of apodcast? Some people, like you
said, give you questions aheadof time and stick to those. Some
people like me give you, like,themes and questions and hardly
ever stick to them. It's soWhich

is great. It's great. I love it.

And some people don't give you a guide at all.
It's just a main topic. So howdo you handle unexpected
questions that arise during aninterview?

So I think that's the beauty of it. Right?
And to to your earlier questionabout being authentic, if I
don't know, I'm a tell you.Great question. I don't know,
Rona.
What are your thoughts? Let's,you know, we can mastermind
this, like, right now and figureout I can give you my opinion. I
won't be able to back it up withany facts if I don't know about
it, but I don't mind thecurveball. For most of us, we

(34:43):
can think pretty good on ourfeet. And so I'm okay with,
again, the curveball, ascrewball, fastball that wasn't
preset, and it's a challenge.
And that makes me mentally getfaster in my thinking to say,
okay. Well, maybe I do knowsomething. It was just so deep.
I just didn't recognize it, sothat question sparked it. But

(35:06):
and then it's like, oh, you knowwhat?
I may not know this, but here'ssomeone who do who does, and let
me just share a little bit aboutwhat I've heard. Don't take it
as bible. I'm just sharing mytidbit. But, yeah, if I don't
know, I'm not gonna profess toknow to try to seem like a
expert, and then that's where itall comes crumbling down. And
then you're a fraud, you'rethis, and that's not my brand.

Great. Great advice. And I I take a similar
approach. I just say somethinglike, well, anecdotally Mhmm. Or
this is what I think, like, if Idon't have I've been on on shows
where people ask me things, andI'm like, I mean, I know this
because of my experience, forexample, as a job seeker.
Not I haven't worked in thisside of talent acquisition, so I

(35:52):
definitely don't know this typeof thing. So it's like you
there's always some sort of wayyou can get to it. Mhmm. But,
yeah, being honest is is themost important part. So what are
some common mistakes that you'veseen people make as podcast
guests, and what do yourecommend they do to avoid them?

Yeah. How much time we got? So one of the
things that also sparked me toput out the ebook, 10 steps to
maximize your podcastappearances, is that I would say
if you're able to so if you're acoach, a business person,
whatever it is, if your goal isto say, okay. I'm going to get
more exposure by getting onpodcast. So you have to be

(36:33):
mindful of think about everytool that the podcaster host is
using you need.
Not to the same level or degree,but you need the basics. Right?
The good mic, good camera. Ifyou're using your iPhone, that's
great. Whatever.
High quality. Everything fromhow close you are up to the
camera so you're filling theframe. And I've learned this

(36:55):
because I had a a woman on mypodcast who was a, news
reporter, and she was an EmmyAward news reporter. And so she
literally gave me a class rightin that discussion. Hey.
We noticed that I can tell thatyou have an an above light
because it's shining on yourhead. You should be about 3
inches from the top of theframe, filling it out as much as

(37:15):
possible, etcetera, etcetera. SoI learned these different
tactics throughout my journey.And so I just wanted to share
that. But, yes, you need to makesure audio is probably the
number one thing because you'llfind out, and I might have put
that in the ebook, people willlisten to a podcast with bad
visual versus listen to apodcast with bad audio and great

(37:37):
visual.
So the goal is you want them tolisten because there's so many
ways you can hear it. And sowith that, they need to make
sure the audio is number 1 ifyou're going live. Be super,
super clear, be up close andpersonal. I did have a guest
that was way, way back, and itjust didn't look right. It was
so unbalanced.
I was like, can you pull us upcloser? And that person was just

(38:00):
like, nope. You know, it's fine.It should be able to rock and
roll. The audio was bad.
It was echoey. I was like, Idon't think I pushed it out. I
might have, but I didn't do anypost edits and, you know,
promote clips because it it justdidn't look good. And so I
wanted to make sure that as Ievolve as a podcaster, you know,
the quality of the the stufflooks good. Plus, they again,

(38:22):
like we talked about earlier,the guest can use it.
And to this day, that person isstill doing the same thing. I'm
just like, oh my god. And thatperson commented and and got my
my ebook, and I'm like, you'restill not you didn't take note,
though. You got the ebook, butyou're still you know, the the
content that person was sharingis good good advice. But just

(38:44):
visually, aesthetically, itdidn't look good.
I'm like, and so that's just tohelp the both you and the guest,
you know, be able to use that asmarketing, going forward because
people you look at it part youknow, maybe a company wants to
partner with you, but they seeit it just aesthetically doesn't
fit their brand. They're like,maybe not. Content is great, but

(39:07):
we may not wanna have you on asa a visual guest.

And some of the things that you've said are,
like, crucial. So Mhmm. Yes. Agood camera and all of that is
important, but how you frameyourself

Yep.

Is super important. Some people do this
thing where they're like,there's this ton of headspace,
then it looks like you look thistiny. It doesn't inspire
authority or anything. Right?

Nope.

Because it's like, okay. This this tiny person. And
then there's people who are,like, so up close and personal,
like, right here in your face.And I I just did a no no. I,
like, covered my face as I'mtalking.
But, like, you're so up closethat it's then, like,
intimidating or, like, puttingyour camera above you. So all of
these things are important and alot of hosts give you those

(39:52):
guidelines. So I'm gonna saysomething. Yes. Audio is
important.
Super important. That's the mostimportant part. Video and how
you frame yourself and, like,the lighting basic lighting is
important. The most importantthing really is being in
communication with your host.

Yeah.

Asking them for these tips. A lot of hosts have
these tips already in yourinvites. Like, I have it right
after you schedule. You go to apage with my tips and what to
expect. I expect, yes, to readthat and do those basic things
because it's like no one'stelling you go out and buy a

(40:31):
$300 microphone or anything likethat.

Nope.

But one that works clearly and you can get crisp
audio, that's the most importantthing.

I would even encourage them to right. This
particular mic look like we bothhave Yetis that are less than a
100. There are some that areless than a 100 that still work
fine. So, again, if you're gonnago on this journey, folks, in at
least the mic minimum, then thesecondary is definitely the
visual and just apply every tipthat Ron and I is sharing

(41:00):
because it's your brand. Right?
It's your brand. It's almostlike getting dressed up and but
your shoes are dirty. It's like,ah, you were almost there.
You're almost a a great package,but we just need to make these
slight tweaks, put a littleshine, you know, better
shoelaces or whatever, and thenit'll look better when you use
that as a marketing tool. So,just be mindful of that for

(41:22):
sure.

Your guide mentioned something that I
loved, which is analyzing andlearning from each appearance.
Like, what's a key lesson thatyou've learned from this self
analysis that has helped youimprove as a podcast guest and
host?

Yeah. For me, in particular, which is some of the
things I look at is I still makemistakes. Right? We're we're
human. I still make mistakeswith the audio.
If my mic is not connectedcorrectly, I don't hear it until
the after I do the precheck. Butthen after we're up and running
and I I check it, I'm like, ohmy god. It sounds like I'm way

(41:59):
in the back. My mic didn'tconnect correctly. And so I'm
like, okay.
Be conscious of that. 2 is thecadence in which I speak.
Sometimes I'll talk too fast.You know, I have a lisp. It
it'll jumble the words.
And so I have to be mindful.Hey. Slow down. Be clear. Stay
looking at the camera.
My eyes tend to wander a lot.And so I wanna make sure, again,

(42:20):
I'm connecting. And so I have tobe mindful of that in between,
questions, in between, you know,thoughts, and making sure I'm
coming across clear posture,everything. Little by little,
I'm I'm going back to my naturalstate versus, okay, let me sit
up. How close am I to the mic,etcetera.
So all these different thingsare just racing through my head.

(42:40):
And it was funny, Rhonda. I hatelistening to my my own podcast.
And so when I do that, I'm moreor less listening for the sound.
And then I hear myself if I'mtrying to make a point and it's
not coming across clear.
I'm like, okay. I gotta I gottado better. I gotta slow down. I
gotta think more clearly becauseI'll get excited. And it's like
I said, I'll stumble across mywords.

(43:02):
So I'm just like, okay. Let'scalm down. Be mindful. And so
I'm trying to be more mindfulagain on how I verbally
communicate because that's thekey with a podcast. Right?
It could be on YouTube. It canbe wherever you wanna listen to
it. And the main thing is, is itcoming through clear for the
audience to resonate with it? Sothose are some of the the things

(43:23):
that I look for and try to getbetter with each podcast. You
know, you can be nervous.
I'm okay with my nerves, butit's still, like, you just never
know. You just never know.Anything can happen. You're
like, oh my god. I gotta I gottabe ready for this.
Yeah. So it's a it's aevolution.

Yeah. It's never gonna I have a checklist for
when I'm a guest, and I have achecklist for when I'm a host.
And this checklist has grown asI don't like listening to my own
episodes. But when I firststarted, I used to edit them
myself, so I was forced tolisten to them. And now I don't
edit my own episodes, but stillanything that's gonna have my

(44:01):
name attached to it when Irelease it, I need to make sure.
And I love my the team that Iwork with, and I trust them, but
I still listen to every singleepisode because my name is
attached to it. So I'm forced tolisten to it. Mhmm. And then
it's like, okay. I should havedone this, adding this to the
checklist next time to to makesure whatever just happened.

(44:21):
So, yeah, it's just it it'sevolving, but you get you get
better the more you do it, butyou do have to analyze your
appearances and what you'vedone.

Yeah. I don't think anyone's perfect unless,
you know, you're talking about,you know, the Gary V's of the
world and, you know, those folkshave such a freedom, I guess,
because they at that point,financially, they're they're
good. If it's crumbles, they'regonna be fine. Right? So there's
a certain freedom that comeswith, you know if you've learned

(44:53):
yourself and fully confident inyour abilities, great.
Then there's that aspect of,hey. I'm at a point where I can
care less what anybody says.It's not gonna impact my life.
And so once you reach that, Ithink you get more comfortable
no matter how you come across ina podcast, but you're still
conscious because if you'resomeone who cares about the end
result of what your what yourmessage is, and you're still

(45:15):
conscious about it. So he's oneof the people that I look at a
lot.
He definitely, you know, for myliking, too much cursing. But he
gets his point across withabsolute clarity, passion, and
he's always thinking about thethe listener and saying, hey.
Take it or leave it. This iswhat I'm seeing, but take

(45:35):
action.

So we've mentioned on it throughout the
conversation, but after therecording, right, what steps do
you take to make sure that yourappearance as a guest continues
to work for your brand?

Yeah. So if after that, you know, how the
guest or how the host works,should I say, if providing the,
you know, the assets or anyclips or things like that or the
full episode, my goal is then isto leverage it now thinking as a
podcast. So how can I push thisout to as many as people in the
email, newsletter, whatever thatis to promote, you know, the

(46:12):
best parts? Right? The partswhere, like you see on YouTube.
Right? They'll clip a a dramaticpart, putting at the put it to
the beginning and start thewhole podcast, which is a
capture. So how do I capture theaudience in one of those clips
as well? And so I'll put that onthe you know, I'll note that in
my speaker one sheet. I've beenon this podcast.

(46:33):
I've been on this podcast.Because that builds credibility.
Right? And so that that helpsyou land more opportunities like
we talked about earlier when youpitch yourself because you've
been on multiple platforms. It'sjust that much easier.
So when you you stack up a bunchof things and saying, hey, I'm
presenting a 3 tier cake versusa a sheet. A 1 tier cake, it's a

(46:55):
lot more tastier andaesthetically looking like, oh,
this person, he or she bringbrings a lot to the table. They
have this going for them, thisgoing for them, this going for
them. And so that just helpedyou as the guest to self market
to create more opportunities.But again, for me in particular,
I'm like, is the value there?
Did I land if I totally bombedthe interview, I'm not gonna use

(47:17):
it. I don't wanna you know? AndI apologize. I'm like, hey. That
was that was completely awful.
My apologies. If you wanna runit back, great. If not, I I get
it. But it's how can I again,and I'll I'll beat a dead horse
is how can I add value to thatto that listener? So my goal is
to to leverage the the marketingof postproduction stuff.

Yeah. And and the cool thing about 2024 and AI and
how it's evolved because assomeone who started being a
guest on podcast before some ofthese tools existed, the cool
thing is now, even if the guestdoesn't give you the little
short clips or assets, if theyput it on YouTube or pretty much
anywhere, you can use tools. AndI'll link my 2 favorite ones in

(48:03):
the show notes, But you can usetools where all you do is drop
the link of the YouTube, andthen the tool goes and clips the
best moments. And you can editit and, like, just share that on
social media.

Yep.

As a host, I like to share with my guests the
assets because I just do. Ithink if someone spent the time
to come to your podcast, youshould share the assets. And
and, also, it's a way to makesure that people are sharing the
parts of the interview that Ithink were good and and all of

(48:37):
that stuff. But if you I'm alsonot opposed to people doing
their own clips and stuff likethat. So if you happen to be a
guest on a podcast that doesn'thave, like, big post production
and doesn't do clips and stuff,you can always get them
yourself.
And that's the beauty of AI andwhere we are right now.

Yeah. Plus right. It's a it's a mutual
beneficial exchange because thepeople who see the clip are
like, absolutely wanna see more.I have to go to the host
podcast. I I'm not going to theguest podcast because it's it's
not on their platform.
It's on the host platform. So Ineed to go find out who Rona is,

(49:17):
see her information, listen to 1oh, no. Now I'm listening to 3.
Oh, wow. Yeah.
I'm subscribing. Now oh, she gota YouTube. Oh oh oh, she
coaches? Oh, yep. So right.
It's that trickle effect, thatyou get to see everything that
person does. And like we said,the AI is incredible now. That
one clip can have such animpact. You never know. That's

(49:37):
why YouTube shorts were so bigand, you know, IG, the clips
were so big at at one point, andI think that's shifting in the
market.
Is now more long form thatpeople are tuning into more. And
then, obviously, on the backend, we're we're chopping up.
But it's a mutual beneficialexchange when it's a especially
when it's a good episode, andyou're like, yeah. Definitely

(49:59):
gotta push this out. This isthis is really good.

Yeah. And for us that are on LinkedIn, especially
us in TA, I think most of us areon LinkedIn. LinkedIn is really
putting their money behind videoand clips. So right of the way I
know. That's why

So I definitely gotta double down on that for
sure.

So this has been an amazing conversation. I'm so
sure that listeners are going toget so much value out of this
conversation. How can listenersconnect with

you? Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you again,
Rona, for the opportunity. Gladwe were able to, pod swap.
If you're a podcaster, you knowthe terminology. And so they can
connect with me right onLinkedIn, Orlando Haines. Also,
go to my website, career talkspodcast.com, and then you'll see
the links for all the podcasts,you know, Apple, Spotify,

(50:53):
etcetera. If you want coaching,etcetera, you'll see all that
information on the podcast. ButI'm on LinkedIn every day, so
that's probably the the primaryspace, but, you'll see my
contact information as well onthe career talks podcast.com
website.

Perfect. And I'll link all of that in the show
notes and also the link toOrlando's guide of the 10 steps
to be a great podcast guest.It's an amazing guide, and I
really encourage everyone to getit. Thank you so much. And there
you have it, folks.
Visibility creates opportunity,but you don't have to spend

(51:29):
hours creating content to bevisible and have a strong
personal brand. Thanks toOrlando for sharing his
insights. Don't forget to grabhis free guide on how to be a
great podcast guest. The link isin the show notes. And if you
want help creating content toexpand on any of your guest
appearances, let's chat.

(51:51):
I've just launched a new donefor you service where you spend
1 hour with me and I create amonth's worth of short form
videos for you. It's that easy.Learn more at
throwouttheplaybook.com/ video.The link is in the show notes.
And don't forget to subscribe.
Next week, I'm sharing verysimple ways you can repurpose

(52:14):
content from podcast guestappearances. You don't wanna
miss that episode. Thanks forlistening and I'll chat with you
next week.

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