November 12, 2024 • 50 mins
In this episode, we dive deep into employee onboarding with Amy Davies, founder of First 30. Learn why 33% of new hires leave within their first 6 months and how effective onboarding can save companies an average of $390,000 annually in turnover costs.
Amy shares:
- Why first impressions are crucial in employee retention
- How pre-boarding sets the foundation for success
- The true cost of poor onboarding practices
- Practical strategies for creating an effective onboarding program
- Ways to measure and prove onboarding ROI
- How to get leadership buy-in for onboarding initiatives
- Tips for managing onboarding content effectively
- The importance of cross-functional relationships in onboarding
Key Insights:
💡 Successful onboarding goes beyond paperwork and orientation
💡 Great onboarding can improve engagement by 82%
💡 The importance of making employees feel psychologically safe
💡 Why recruiters should stay involved in the onboarding process
💡 How to create a "drip campaign" approach to onboarding information
RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:
📘Ideas to Get Your New Hires Off to a Great Start
https://first30ready.ck.page/onboardingebook
📘Strategies for Running Compassionate and Effective Layoffs
https://first30ready.ck.page/compassionatelayoffsebook
📬 Get the Newsletter: https://link.rhonapierce.com/YZEviw
RECOMMENDED NEXT EPISODE
→ #6: Inclusive Hiring Starts with Effective Intake Calls with Kat Kibben
****
🌟 CONNECT WITH AMY
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daviesamy/
🌐 Website: https://first30ready.com/
📹 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@first30ready
🌟 CONNECT WITH ME
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rhonabarnettpierce/
🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/rhonab
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rhonabpierce/
🎵 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@rhonabpierce
🌐 Website: https://www.rhonapierce.com/
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https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/throw-out-the-playbook/id1740429498
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rhona Pierce (00:01):
33% of new hires leave an organization within
their 1st 6 months, which isabsolutely crazy. Amy Davies is
the founder of First 30, helpingcompanies transform their
employee experience throughstrategic onboarding. When
people think about onboarding, Ithink most people think about
(00:23):
the paperwork and theorientation. How do you define
successful onboarding?
Amy Davies (00:30):
If you have set your employee up for success, you've
given them the information theyneed to succeed, they have the
tools they need to do their job,and they feel both physically
and psychologically safe in yourorganization.
Rhona Pierce (00:45):
But there's a critical window that changes
everything.
Amy Davies (00:49):
Once we've kind of imprinted, we build cognitively,
we build what's called a beliefsystem. And once that belief
system is established, it's verydifficult, if not impossible, to
change.
Rhona Pierce (01:02):
How do poor onboarding practices affect a
company's bottom line?
Amy Davies (01:08):
It costs at least, at a minimum, 30 to 50 percent
of an employee salary to replacethem.
Rhona Pierce (01:14):
Yet most companies continue to make the same
devastating mistake.
Amy Davies (01:19):
We need to make the managers feel accountable for
the success on their team. Thisis really important for the
Rhona Pierce (01:25):
health of your organization. We talk about
being strategic recruiters,strategic partners to the
business. You can't be on yourown creating beautiful programs
that no one cares about and thatno one knows about. Tell the
story
Amy Davies (01:44):
of how onboarding is gonna make a meaningful
difference. Everyone loves astory, and if you got the data
to back it up.
Rhona Pierce (01:54):
So thank you so much for being on the show with
me today, Amy. I'm so excitedfor this topic. I am really
excited to be here. I love theconversation we had
Amy Davies (02:04):
a few weeks ago. I've been following you now on
LinkedIn, and you're justamazing. I love love the content
that you produce, so I'm so gladwe are connected now.
Rhona Pierce (02:15):
Thank you. Yes. Likewise. So of all the things
and employee experience, whatinspired you to focus on
onboarding?
Amy Davies (02:25):
It might not be what you expect. When I started my
business First 30, we actuallywork in the outplacement field.
So we help employees who havebeen laid off. So we work with
the companies, and we help themrecover from the job loss and
get back to work. And I decidedwhen I started the business that
I want to call it 1st 30 becauseI wanted it to be open to other
(02:45):
programs.
I thought, you know, I knowmyself. There's gonna be more to
come. This is chapter 1. And sosure enough, people thought we
were an onboarding companybecause of the name. Right?
1st 30. And so we startedgetting lots of calls about
employee onboarding, which I hadsome experience in. And then
over the years, I've spoken withso many companies about their
(03:07):
employee onboarding programs,and we sort of just organically
moved into that space. And nowthat I'm here, wow. It is such
an interesting area of thebusiness with so much
opportunity.
It seems like one of those funnythings that companies just have
so much trouble for you know,I'm sure they say for whatever
(03:28):
reason, but I know the reasonswhy they're having these issues.
And there's just like, there'sso much opportunity.
Rhona Pierce (03:34):
That is so interesting. And you were
totally right. I'd had never Iwould have never even thought
that because the name is First30. I thought you probably
started with onboarding andended up doing off board or out
placement because I know thatyou do that.
Amy Davies (03:50):
Yeah. Well, I was thinking of our business even
though all of our programsextend for more than 30 days. I
was taking some 30 day you know,I was doing yoga with Adrian,
and it they always have their 30day program. And I'm like, it
has such a nice ring to it. Sothat's how it all started.
And I'm I couldn't be happierwith where it's gotten to.
Rhona Pierce (04:09):
Amazing. So when people think about onboarding, I
think most people think about,like, the paperwork and the
orientation.
Amy Davies (04:17):
Yeah. How do you define successful onboarding?
Well, of course, these, youknow, paperwork and all those
things are part of a successfulonboarding program. But I see it
as if you have set your employeeup for success, you've given
them the information they needto succeed, they have the tools
(04:38):
they need to do their job, andthey feel both physically and
psychologically safe in yourorganization, then you've done a
really great job. And the otherthing is get them excited.
You know? I think too often wethink about, okay, we're ticking
boxes and getting things donefor the onboarding, but really
what we wanna focus on is theyshould be excited to walk in the
(05:01):
door on the 1st day, and thatmomentum should continue once
they arrive.
Rhona Pierce (05:07):
Yes. And we really we talk a lot about, like, first
impressions in hiring. I'm sureeveryone has heard how important
a first impression is. How doesthat psychology really apply to
a new
Amy Davies (05:20):
hire's 1st few weeks? Well, as you know, we
always say you don't get asecond chance to make a first
impression. But one of the bigmistakes that we make as
organizations is we don't askthe second question, which is
why? Why do you do you not get asecond chance to make a first
impression? And the reason comesdown to imprinting.
(05:41):
So if your listeners aren'tfamiliar with it, it's a
cognitive we're cognitivelyhighly receptive when we engage
with any new stimulus, whetherit be a new restaurant, whether
it be a new person, or whetherit be a new workplace. So we
really wanna think about thatimpression that we're making
because once we've kind ofimprinted, we built cognitively,
(06:02):
we build what's called a beliefsystem. And once that belief
system is established, it's verydifficult, if not impossible, to
change. So those first fewinteractions are so much more
meaningful than we realize. Itcan impact productivity.
It can impact a commitment tothe business and faith and trust
in the business. So we wannathink about you know? And
(06:26):
companies, I think, tend tothink that you're gonna get that
second chance to make a firstimpression because the person
maybe needs to be there, but itdoesn't really work that way.
And just because a company isdoing one thing or another,
doesn't mean that cognitivelywe're suddenly gonna change to
accommodate our employer. That'sjust not possible.
Rhona Pierce (06:46):
Is there a, like, length or a period where that
imprinting takes place? Is itfirst few times you interact
with a recruiter? Is it firstdays with your manager?
Amy Davies (06:57):
It's so great that you bring that up because I'm
often asked, do I see recruitingas part of the onboarding
process? I think of once you'vesigned a job offer, that's when
the actual preboarding and Iwould consider preboarding part
of onboarding. That's when thatprocess begins. But it's not to
say that the whole candidateexperience doesn't have an
(07:17):
impact. So I do think that it'sreally important for recruiters
to think about the fact that theperson is imprinting as well and
try to look for opportunities tomake them feel, like we talked
about, safe, to make them feeltrust, to have sort of a
consistent positive experiencewith them, and then hopefully
(07:40):
that's continued once they movefrom the recruiter to the team.
Rhona Pierce (07:44):
And there's something that I always talk
about retention. Anyone who'sheard about, this podcast knows
that I talk about retention andthat my hot take is that
recruiters are responsible forretention as well, not just
getting people in the door. Sohow does effective onboarding
impact employee retention andengagement?
Amy Davies (08:07):
Yeah. So we know that there's a lot of data
around the improvements that agreat onboarding program will
lift engagement by 82% and butwe also know that it improves
retention. And one thing I willsay is companies are very, very
bad at tracking their retentionrates. So if you're a recruiter
(08:28):
listening to this or HR personlistening to this, start
tracking your retention rates,especially if you're just about
to make some improvements toyour employee onboarding program
because it can be a huge successstory for you. Right now, about
33% of new hires leave anorganization within their first
6 months, which is absolutelycrazy.
(08:51):
And we're gonna talk later aboutthe cost benefit analysis of
that, but it costs a lot ofmoney when people leave. So it
really does have a huge impactbecause think about it too. When
new hires start, sometimesthere's that sigh of relief,
isn't there? Because it's like,someone to fill this gap in the
organization. I'm finally gonnaget the help I need and the
(09:14):
expertise I need.
And then that person's out thedoor within a month or 2 months.
It's not just about the hardcost. It's about what is the
psychological impact to theemployees that are constantly
going through this.
Rhona Pierce (09:27):
Yes. And I even say it to the recruiters. Like,
at some point, you feel likeyou're on a hamster wheel of
recruiting for the same exactrole over and over again. And
it's like that's why I say it'sso important, the role of the
recruiter, because it's like,look. If you keep hiring for the
same role, you're part of theproblem too because you should
(09:50):
know from what the people who'veleft have said their feedback.
And if you are in contact withthem, you should know what you
need to be looking for. Look.It's something as sometimes you
know that the hiring managerthat you're hiring for is a
micromanager. Then be sure tohire someone and present
candidates that are totally okaywith micromanaging. Because,
(10:13):
yes, ideally, should that exist?
No. But as a recruiter, can youjust change that? Exist? I mean,
is is it is it okay? Is itshould it be the case?
Yeah. But you can't change that.Right? You're not the person's
manager. You're not inmanagement.
So as a recruiter, you adapt andadjust and you find the people
that would fit in there. That'swhy I say Yeah. Retention is our
(10:35):
thing.
Amy Davies (10:35):
Yes. Yeah. And it's you know, I love that you think
that as a recruiter too, becausetoo often it's the case where I
think companies' experiencesthat the recruiter kinda
considers their job over oncethe offer letter is signed. So
recruiters like you who are muchmore progressive and the advice
you're giving is is meaningfulto organizations because we need
(10:57):
the recruiter with the samepriorities as the organization.
Yeah.
It's really
Rhona Pierce (11:02):
the only way to succeed. And kind of along those
lines, and you mentionedpreboarding previously. So
preboarding is really animportant step before onboarding
even begins. How can recruitersstay involved during that phase?
Amy Davies (11:20):
Yeah. So, I mean, they can definitely set the new
hire up for success by maybesending them a text or giving
them a call the week before,making sure that they're ready
to go if they have anyquestions. Another thing that I
really like to do and Irecommend to our clients that
they do is send informationprecisely about what that person
(11:41):
needs to know for their 1st dayand make sure it applies to
them. What is the location ofthe office? What is the transit
situation?
What is the stop they need toget off at? Where's the parking?
Where are they gonna get theircoffee? I am really a slave to
my coffee, and I don't wannahave any doubt that I'm gonna be
(12:02):
able to get my coffee,especially on that first day.
And lunch.
Right? Like, what if there's nolunch facilities and you can't
buy lunch in the at the officeand you need to know to bring
your lunch in. You don't wantsomeone who is caffeine
deprived, tired, and thenthey're not eating during their
1st day. That is awful. So wewere talking about, you know,
(12:23):
making someone feel safe.
That's just another way. And Iwould get that message out
sooner rather than later, evensend it twice because they might
miss it the first time. A lot'sgoing on. And maybe the day
before they've had all thosedays to get nervous, like, maybe
send it a number of businessdays before they're getting
started and make sure thatmessage, I know I'm getting into
(12:45):
the weeds a bit, is clearlylabeled for them because you
know how hard it is to wadethrough emails, especially when
you have that nervous energy ofstarting a new job.
Rhona Pierce (12:55):
Yeah. And I I love that you've mentioned that. I I
think back to when I've beenactively recruiting. I know
every Sunday because most of thecompanies, there's always, like,
a first day. Right?
Amy Davies (13:06):
Yeah.
Rhona Pierce (13:07):
A defined first day. Very few companies, you can
start whatever day of the week.But larger companies where
there's, like, orientation andeverything planned, everyone,
let's say, starts on a Monday.The Sunday before, I was always
texting all of my candidates andbe like, hey. So excited.
If it's remote, it's like, login at this time because this is
this. And, obviously, I talk tothe hiring manager and Yeah. And
(13:30):
tell them about this. I'm nottelling someone to log in at 10
and their manager's expectingthem at 8 or anything like that.
But I tell them the things thatno one thinks about telling
them, like, hey.
I love to you're gonna be at theoffice for training. I don't
live there, but I love thecoffee shop right next door.
Amy Davies (13:46):
So nice. Yeah.
Rhona Pierce (13:48):
That type of thing. Like, really, people
aren't gonna ask this, but theyit's so important to know, and
it just takes off the stress ofthe first day. It's like Yeah.
Yeah. I love that.
Amy Davies (13:58):
And then they feel at home in the neighborhood
already. You're really trying towanting to make them feel at
home. I just wanted to add onething to what I was saying
because I think it's reallyimportant. And this might fall
to the recruiter too because ifthey're talking to the new hire,
maybe things aren't going right.Maybe they're not getting the
technology.
That's a big one. Not gettingsomeone's laptop to them or even
PPE, and they they can'tactually do their job, and
(14:22):
they're sort of mulling around.So one thing we really wanna be
careful of is we don't wannanormalize that for the employee.
It may be a blip or it might bea bigger problem that the
organization has to address. Butif I'm a new hire, I shouldn't
be hearing from anyone, oh,that's just the sort of thing
that happens around here.
Get used to it. Right? And thatoften will happen with new hires
(14:44):
where people make thosecomments, and the whole trust is
starting to be broken down fromthat point.
Rhona Pierce (14:51):
Yeah. That that shouldn't be a thing. And, yeah,
as a recruiter, I always makesure I think it's I have a a
unique background of I've doneagency and I've done
marketplace, so I've doneexternal before moving into
internal. So I always have that,like, okay. I wanna make sure
that they get there to my clientthe first day.
Well, I took that when I wentinternal too. I wanna make sure
(15:13):
that IT I'm the person who'slike, do they have their
computer already? Oh, Rhona. Youdon't have to worry about that.
Absolutely.
I have to worry. I wanna makesure. And there have been places
where for whatever reason, thecomputer isn't ready. It did get
there. We tell the person youdon't have to log in this 1st
day.
You're still getting paid. Yeah.This is on us. Yeah. Your first
(15:35):
day starts when we consider thatyou are ready to start, when
we've set you up to success.
Part of that is having the toolsthat you need to start.
Amy Davies (15:46):
And, you know, Rona, that's another great point. And
one of the things I recommend toemployers is I know it's we it
feels weird, but let your newhire start late on their 1st
day, and then let them leaveearly because their manager
needs to be fresh too. So theirmanager can get in, check their
email, get their coffee. Andyou're seeing a theme here, I'm
(16:08):
sure. And the person's probablytired.
It's probably a place theyhaven't gone all you know, many
times before. So you just itmakes it so much more smooth
when you let them start late andleave early on their 1st day.
Rhona Pierce (16:21):
And I love the leave early part because how
many times have you not been onyour 1st day and it's like,
you're there counting theminutes till 5. Look. Everyone's
done training you. Cause they'relike finishing their day.
There's nothing that you have todo.
And you're just there, likeplaying this game of like, I'm
going to leave at 5:0:1 so thatI'm not that person. Come on.
(16:43):
Just, just leave
Amy Davies (16:44):
people from that. Yeah. And say it like, please
get out of here. We know this isyou know, we always lead let our
new hires leave. We always askour new hires to leave early on
their 1st day.
So, yeah, you have thatpermission structure all set up,
and it doesn't seem weird, andit doesn't seem like they're not
committed. But my goodness,there's nothing worse than
(17:04):
sitting around in your first daywith nothing to do and really
trying to look busy. It'sembarrassing and uncomfortable.
Rhona Pierce (17:10):
Yeah. It's just so awkward and so weird. Yeah. So
what are some of the commonchallenges that you see
organizations face when they'reimplementing onboarding
programs, and how can theyaddress these?
Amy Davies (17:25):
Well, there's a number of issues. I mean, one of
them is getting buy in from theorganization, and that can mean
many things. I think that thegreatest onboarding programs,
are there any refresh or revampto an onboarding program has a
senior sponsor in theorganization, so someone who
will advocate for it, someonewho will get the budget
necessary, and allow for thereto be dedicated resources. In
(17:47):
order to make that happen forthe HR team or whoever kind of
is seen to own onboarding, thebest thing you can do, and we're
gonna talk about it shortly, isto make sure that you have the
data and the numbers. Like, howmuch is new hire turnover
costing our business every year,and what can we do to improve
(18:07):
that?
Or are we not getting our newhires up to productivity as
quickly as we think we should beand that we're losing
opportunities because of that?So that is one. And then the
other is to make sure that ifyou are refreshing or revamping
your onboarding program, youwanna have a cross functional
team of managers who have hiredhave had new hires come in in
(18:31):
the last couple years toparticipate in the process
because we can set up the bestemployee onboarding program, and
then no one utilizes it becausewe haven't got that buy in. So
as you know, people who areinvolved in the process of
change and who have helpedcreate the program are so much
more likely to advocate for itand to use it. So make sure that
(18:55):
you have that cross functionalteam, and you find out what's
working for them.
Because the other thing is wedon't wanna start fixing things
that aren't broken. Right? Butthat is a big barrier to getting
onboarding right. Because Ioften hear from organizations,
some managers are great at this,some not so much. Well, those
managers then need to becoached.
Right? So Yeah. Then there's anopportunity. The other thing I
(19:17):
heard just the other day istraining for managers about how
to onboard new hires isoptional. Can't be optional.
Everybody needs to know. Anyonewho's hiring needs to know how
to onboard how the organizationis set up to onboard this
person, and they there is aprocess they need to follow for
(19:38):
sure.
Rhona Pierce (19:38):
That's so interesting. How can that be
optional?
Amy Davies (19:42):
Yeah. I don't understand it myself, but I
think because people are so busyin organizations, that's where I
think the senior sponsorshipcomes in. That's where the cross
functional teams that's we needto make managers feel
accountable for the success ontheir team. It's not to say it's
all up to them at all. And justbecause someone leaves doesn't
(20:02):
mean their manager has donesomething wrong, but there does
need to be a certainaccountability.
This is really important for thehealth of your organization.
Rhona Pierce (20:10):
I love how you mentioned the the sponsor and
the senior sponsor. And on thispodcast, we talk about being
strategic recruiters, strategicpartners to the business. You
can't be on your own creatingbeautiful programs that no one
cares about and that no oneknows about because you're gonna
(20:30):
continue to be saying to your HRand TA peers, I just want a seat
at the table. Well, to get aseat at the table, you have to
speak people's language and youhave to bring them in on the
things that you do. Onboardingis a beautiful and perfect way
to start those cross functionalthings because it's just the
(20:51):
nature of it.
There's no way this is only anHR thing. And it's an exciting
part of
Amy Davies (20:57):
the business too. Right? Every people do get
excited about improvingonboarding programs. They get
excited about participating inthat. You could set up buddy
programs where, you know, HRmight be the one to start
setting them up, but it's agreat opportunity to let your
more junior employees shinebecause they can play a large
(21:17):
role in that.
So there's so many exciting, funthings that you can do with
onboarding that have you know, Italk in in a lot of the sessions
that I do with HR leaders. It'slike this is feel good. Right?
Like, I talk a lot aboutcreating a praise culture.
Creating a praise culture, it'sa feel good thing, but it
actually has a business benefit.
(21:38):
And the numbers back that up.So, yes, it's feel good, but
it's also gonna help yourbusiness be more profitable.
Yes. A 100%. And like you said,the buddy program, I mean, it
also helps with with youremployee engagement.
Okay. So now you've
Rhona Pierce (21:52):
been working there. Everyone wants to get
promoted. Everyone can't getpromoted. Yeah. Everyone needs
to work up to being promoted.
So when you take someone who'son that track and give them an
additional responsibility, ofcourse, with their buying. It
feels so good that you'rehelping the company and you're
(22:13):
helping welcome the new peopleon your team. I mean, the I I've
never really seen anywhere whereI've implemented a buddy program
where the buying from theemployees working as buddies
isn't, like, something thateveryone wants to do. It's like,
we usually get, like, too manypeople wanting to do it.
Amy Davies (22:31):
People who wanna do it. Yes. I've seen that as well,
and it's exciting to see. Yeah.
Rhona Pierce (22:37):
Yeah. So everyone knows I love content. I'm a
content creator, and contentdoesn't only mean the external
content that you post online. Ilove to tell that to people.
When I say content, it's notonly that.
So in respect to onboarding,lots of companies just hand you
(22:58):
a booklet, either a virtual oneor a real one, and there's
information overload when itcomes to onboarding. How do you
approach breaking this contentdown into information into
pieces that is digestible forthe new hire?
Amy Davies (23:14):
I would say that a lot of companies have HRIS, and
their HRIS has not prioritizedonboarding. So this can be
difficult to do with that,except the very, very highest
end ones. So you might have tothink about the how this
happens, but, certainly, sendingout information in bite sized
(23:34):
chunks is a really good idea. SoI always say that onboarding
should not be an avalanche ofinformation. It should be a
babbling brook because memoriesare fragile at the best of
times.
But when you have that, youknow, nervous energy maybe or
your you have informationoverload, your memory is like a
sieve, and maybe theorganization feels like they're
(23:57):
taking a box by giving it all toyou, but you're not remembering
any of it anyway. We have tothink about how different
learning styles might apply hereas well. Some people really
respond well to the in personcontent being delivered, and
then other people prefer toreview things and go over them
themselves, maybe a combinationof those 2. But, again, it can't
(24:17):
be all at once. So I think thatemail sequencing tools are
really good for this.
Some systems have them. Someorganizations won't. There's
great programs that marketersuse. You might wanna talk to
your marketing team. You couldprobably talk to us if you don't
know what they are.
But getting it programmed sothat new hires every few days
(24:38):
receive or even every day forthe 1st week or 2 receive
information, that's what we dowith our program and our
platform is we space it out. Soyou're each day you're getting
something and the emails areclearly labeled, and then
there's a place that might lookand feel a little bit different
than your SharePoint or yourintranet sites. Because what
(25:02):
happens is if everything looksexactly the same, people are
gonna forget what onboardingversus everything else is. So we
have a platform that we use withclients, and some of them
actually leave it branded first30 so that their employees know
what to look for and what isonboarding content versus
everything else in theorganization. That's amazing.
(25:24):
And I love the concept of thedrip campaign
Rhona Pierce (25:27):
Yes. For onboarding. And and this is also
an opportunity for you toleverage the again, these cross
functional relationships. Thisis where you talk to marketing
about tools. Yep.
If you have an internal commsteam, they can help you with the
drip campaigning and all ofthat. For sure, they can. Yeah.
And your your learning anddevelopment team, they can help
(25:49):
you create this program. So alot of times with onboarding, it
just falls on HR, and we shouldbe able to know and leverage the
resources that we have.
Look. You're good at hiring.You're good at compliance if
you're in HR. You're good atwhatever piece you are. You're
not necessarily a marketer, aninternal communicator, or, like,
someone who creates learning anddevelopment programs.
(26:12):
If you have these people in yourorganization, bring them in to
help shape this program so thatit's successful. Yeah. And can
we talk for a minute about the
Amy Davies (26:22):
look and feel of the resources that you're getting?
Because you and I are bothprobably mark very marketing
minded as well as in addition toeverything else, and that's a
learned skill. Right? So justbecause you're doing something
else and you don't have thoseskills today, doesn't mean you
can't learn them. We both learnthem, and they're actually fun
to learn.
But what I see with onboardingmaterials is it's like this
(26:44):
hodgepodge of all of thesedifferent resources from
different departments withdifferent looks and feels and
fonts and logos. And some ofthem are 20 years old, and some
of them were produced last year.And when we think of content,
like we're talking cognitivelyhow we respond to new stimulus,
consistency breeds trust. Soconsider that. Consistency
(27:07):
breeds trust.
And we want those things to alllook cohesive because
familiarity also inspires trust.So that's more important than
people realize, and it can makea bigger difference. It's just
not something that companiesseem to think matters all that
much. They care about theirexternal brand. But if you look
(27:31):
at any of the top brands in theworld, as soon as you look at
the page or the the online ad oryou walk in their store, you
know you're there.
Just by the colors and theshapes that you are seeing,
you've got that, and that's whatyou want with your onboarding
material as well.
Rhona Pierce (27:48):
You wanna hear a funny story? Yes. Once got in
trouble for bothering themarketing team because when I
started at a company to leadtheir TA team, I asked them for
their brand kit. Okay. They'relike, that's for no.
You don't
Amy Davies (28:06):
don't worry about that.
Rhona Pierce (28:07):
That's for external. That's for marketing.
Why are you bothering them?They're they're busy. I'm like,
wait.
So your internal stuff doesn'tfollow what your brand kit is,
and I'm not bothering someone.Just send it to me. I know you
have it. But, yeah, that that'show people don't understand that
it's one brand. Your employerbrand, your internal brand with
(28:27):
your employees, your Yeah.
It's one brand. And the more youmake it look the same yeah. And
the more you make it look thesame, like you said, the more
people identify with it.
Amy Davies (28:39):
Yeah. And I do wanna add that I think organizations
should have people who are asexcited and committed as you are
about this. And we wanna makesure there is an excitement
factor that does add somethingand, well, you have all the
expertise, but there is thatsecret something that great
(29:00):
contributors have. And it mightnot be that this this individual
isn't excited about other thingsto do with their work, but when
you're thinking of refreshingand revamping an onboarding
program, find people to leadthese projects who are actually
excited about them, not someonewho's gonna consider it just an
add on and and is not somethingthey wanna do. So instead of
(29:20):
telling people kinda who's doingit, maybe find the people who
are really interested in thisand get help, you know, help
them figure out a way to be theones to lead that project.
Great. Great point. Any other,like, big mistakes that you see
companies make with theironboarding materials? Well, I
(29:41):
think that the other thing, andI kind of brought it up already,
is that they'll send out oneemail with a catchall where
everything's in that one. And soif and they could name it, like,
welcome to, you know, 1st 30 orwelcome to whatever business.
And then they don't that that'sthe only time that the employees
got an email, especially ifthere's calls to action in those
(30:05):
messages. That is so easilymissed. Again, we're dealing
with people that have thatnervous energy. They're trying
to make a good impression, andthere's nothing more
embarrassing than not, you know,having that available to you and
then having to go ask someone.So the other mistake I think
that companies make is if youhave a benefits program, if you
(30:26):
have a payroll system, there'sprobably resources that are
guided.
You know? They're like taskbased videos. Here's how you do
this. Here's how you do this.Share them with your employees
so often.
I mean, the company that'sproviding you those benefits
probably has that all set up.It's probably available on
YouTube. Just link to thosetraining those little training
(30:51):
modules because then when youremployee, after 2 or 3 months,
they have to fill out theirfirst benefit, you know, form.
They don't have to go to theirmanager and say, oh, here's my
here's my prescription. How do Ido this?
That's so embarrassing.
Rhona Pierce (31:07):
It doesn't make anyone feel good. So you wanna
definitely think about how doyou enable them to have easy
access to that information. Andtimely. Timing information is
the most important because, yes,you start and they you they give
you all this information in your1st days, but open enrollment
doesn't necessarily fall duringyour 1st days.
Amy Davies (31:29):
Yes.
Rhona Pierce (31:29):
So why not everyone who's been onboarded
that year before open enrollmenta week or two before, send them
a refresher email from that dripcampaign that you said. Hey.
Open enrollment is coming up.This is your first time doing it
at this company. Here's arefresher of how it's done.
Here's where you log in. You'llget more information from HR as
(31:50):
you go. But that way, peoplearen't like, wait. What is this?
Asking HR, asking the managers.
You're having a benefitsconversation, and some people
are asking, wait. What's theportal that I log into? Yeah.
Amy Davies (32:03):
We're like Absolutely. Catch them up to
where everyone else is. Andthere's really great ways. Like,
First 30 does this. So fulldisclosure, I can't be objective
about this because we do have aplatform that does this.
But you can create a really nicespace for your new hires to go
to access all of thisinformation that's organized. So
(32:26):
often I see this sort of data orthis resource dump on a page
that's not clearly labeled,that's not color coded, and they
expect people to be able to soeasily navigate it. We're used
to using technology that is userfriendly. You know, if you shop
on Amazon, if you use Netflix,it should be that easy for them.
(32:48):
So, you know, you can alwaystalk to me, of course, but maybe
there's other technologies outthere you can use that are are
great or a learning managementsystem.
But it needs to be housed in away that it makes it easy for
employees to find things evenmonths after they started their
job.
Rhona Pierce (33:04):
100 100000000%. And I come from a background of
software engineering and projectmanagement. One of my favorite
books of all time is calledDon't Make Me Think. It's a
very, very easy read, and it'snot technical at all. It's
really helped me in everyprogram, everything that I've
(33:26):
done, even after leaving thetechnical world because that's
how we think.
The the whole book is about useweb usability. It's probably way
dated because I haven't donethis or maybe they have a new
version. But Mhmm. Don't makepeople think. That's the whole
concept.
Make it so clear. You go toAmazon, you know exactly where
to do things even if you'venever been on Amazon before.
(33:50):
That's how your internalcommunication or everything that
you do for your employees shouldbe. They shouldn't need training
to figure out where your thingsare. Well and that's the hard
part.
Right? Because a
Amy Davies (34:02):
lot of these the HRIS or these other platforms,
they do certain things really,really well, and a company
doesn't wanna have to keeppaying for all this new
technology. The problem is thesystems you have don't do what
we've described well. You know?And that's just the reality of
it. So it's hard becausecompanies say they'll say they
(34:22):
have an onboarding module, butthat's not what it does, and
that's not what it was builtfor.
So just start looking fortechnology that's built for what
you're needing to solve, andyou're gonna have a much your
employees are gonna have a muchbetter experience.
Rhona Pierce (34:36):
Yes. So how do poor onboarding practices affect
a company's bottom line?
Amy Davies (34:44):
Yes. So I like to think of it as a calculation
because we talked earlier aboutwe know that we lose a lot of
new hires if we don't have agreat onboarding program. It
costs at least, at a minimum, itcosts 30 to 50% of an employee
salary to replace them as arecruiter. You know that stat so
well. But it can be up to 200%because of the lost working
(35:07):
hours, because of the impact onother employees when these
things happen.
So what we wanna do is we wannatrack the amount of people that
we're losing within the first,like, I would say even 18
months. That might be able to berelated back to your onboarding.
Take that number. Take the soyou take an average of what the
(35:28):
salary would be. So say you haveyou know, you hire 40 people a
year.
You're losing 13. You've I'vegot all the calculations here,
actually. I figured this out. Sosay you average the salary of 60
k and you times that by 13 anddivide it by 2. Maybe we should
put this calculation in the shownotes.
(35:48):
That's $390,000. Okay? Andthat's just 13 employees. You
know? I use the unlucky number13 so people would remember it.
Share that calculation with yourleadership and help them
understand that, you know, forus, a significantly smaller
amount of money, you couldimprove your onboarding program.
(36:11):
And the data shows that thatimproves productivity by 70%,
new hire retention by 82%. Sothere's all these fun ways to
explain in ways that a CFO wouldreally gravitate towards how
making the small investment andthis relatively small amount of
(36:32):
time spent will truly improvethe bottom line.
Rhona Pierce (36:36):
We are friends of the CFO here on this podcast,
and I like to ask all of myguests. Anytime we talk about
new things because we'rethrowing out the playbook.
Right? We're doing thingsdifferently. What's the business
case for onboarding and preonboarding?
How do I tell my CFO, let's bebesties. I need money.
Amy Davies (36:56):
Yeah. So that is a great place to start, and then,
obviously, you wanna understandwhat the investment will be to
make things these things happenand whether you need external
services like a First 30 or likea great HR consultant or
whatever it is you need toactually make it happen. Because
(37:16):
what I find with a lot oforganizations, unless they act
and I'm this is gonna sound likeit's self promoting, but I I
totally don't mean it that waybecause I've seen it happen so
many times before. It getsdeprioritized when it's someone
internal running it,unfortunately. So that's where
an external consultant canreally help move the needle a
(37:37):
lot more quickly.
You need an an organization thathas great project management
skills so they can help keepeveryone on task. So that is you
know, look at the numbers, showthem the cost of the business,
show them the potential benefit,especially if you're having a
new hire retention problem. Itcan go a long way. And then
explain to them what, you know,talk to them about imprinting.
(38:01):
What is the cognitive responsethat we have?
Learn a little more about it.You know, put up some fun
slides. Tell the story of howonboarding is gonna make a
meaningful difference. Everyoneloves a story, and if you got
the data to back it up, that isgonna be so helpful. And then
maybe you can show them like,hey.
We could we could go take a takean organization you think is
(38:23):
doing it really well. We couldgo from this and then show them
what the outcome could looklike. We could go from this to
this. I always think that is areally great and powerful way
to, you know, make a case forinvesting in onboarding.
Rhona Pierce (38:38):
Love it. And I wouldn't be me if I don't talk
about my video, you know, howmuch I love video. Yes. Is there
an opportunity to use video toenhance an onboarding experience
for new hires?
Amy Davies (38:53):
Yes. So with a platform like ours, we actually
have the capability to add avideo to every single date of
the program. I love that, butvery few organizations will
commit to having a, every day,there's like a 1 or 2 minute
video of a you know, in theprogram that the person is
taking. But if you don't haveyou know, if your organization
(39:15):
is not gonna sign up for that,which I totally understand,
Certainly in preboarding, youcan send them a message from the
leadership team. You could sendthem a message from different
people on the team.
You probably have videos thatyou share externally about your
vision, mission, values, yourbrand for your customers or your
clients. Share those videos aswell. So you might not have to
(39:37):
do a ton of work. And, hey,here's the other thing. You and
I both know that some of thegreatest videos can be filmed
just on our iPhone.
Right?
Rhona Pierce (39:45):
Yes.
Amy Davies (39:46):
And it and sometimes that authenticity of just a CEO
or CFO on an iPhone saying youdon't have to do it
personalized. Just say, hey. I'mso glad you've joined the
business. We're looking forwardto having you start. Here's a
few things you might wanna knowabout the organization.
And it it can feel very it'ssincere. Right? So you're you
(40:06):
don't have to spend a fortune atthis anymore. We have so many
simple resources that areavailable to us that are are in
our hands every day, probablypretty much attached to us. Yes.
So there is no excuse, andthey've got great cameras on
them.
Rhona Pierce (40:22):
Yeah. And, also, never assume that your new hire
has seen all of your employerbranding materials. Absolutely.
Yes. That's absolutely right.
Because even if you sent them,even if it's plastered all over
your careers page, look, there'sso many people who've never seen
it or they don't remember it.You have to see things many
(40:43):
times to actually remember. So,look, if they've seen it
already, they're just gonna skipit. It's fine.
Amy Davies (40:49):
No one's going to die. Leverage your materials.
But exactly. There's nothingwrong with the reminder. We just
talked about the fact thatmemories are fragile.
Rhona Pierce (40:58):
So anything about onboarding that I didn't ask
that you think is important forlisteners to know?
Amy Davies (41:05):
Well, the last thing I would say about onboarding is
the same as planting a tree.Right? When is the best time to
plant a tree? It's 20 years agoor today? Same with your
onboarding program.
If you haven't invested in it,it was probably a good idea to
do it 5, 10, 20 years ago. Buttoday, it's also a really good
day to invest in youronboarding. But, actually, I did
(41:26):
have a question for you. Youtalked about helping new
candidates succeed, and I wasjust wondering because I I would
like to also take this back tomy clients as well is, you know,
what are some of the things as arecruiter, you mentioned some of
them, but you do to help yournew hire succeed, whether it's
(41:46):
within the, you know, preboarding, within the 1st week,
month, year, whatever it is.
Rhona Pierce (41:51):
I like to say I love to stay in touch with my
new hires. Our relationshipdoesn't end once you are hired
for many reasons. Right? You'vealready formed that bond. They
trust you.
So I check-in with people, andand I make anyone on my team
(42:11):
check-in with their new hires.30, 60, 90 days. And the 1st
week, we check-in every day. Somany tie yes. So many times,
we've saved someone from leavingfor a misunderstanding.
Right? We talk a lot about somecandidates feel they were
catfished by, oh, the recruitertold me this, this, and then I
(42:35):
start the 1st day and thishappens. Or I was told this
during hiring, and this is nowhappening. As a recruiter, you
can get in front of those thingsand be like, hey, hiring
manager. There's where's thebreakdown?
What's happening? And Yeah.We've been able to save it
because it's, most of the time,just a misunderstanding. Yeah.
If you leave that unchecked,they have no one to talk to
(42:57):
because they're just starting arelationship with their hiring
manager, right, with theirmanager and their team.
They're not necessarily gonnacomplain. They don't wanna be
seen as that. What they're goingto do is keep looking for a job.
They were just on the jobmarket. So if you get ahead of
that and you've truly formed arelationship with them, people
are always so amazed.
(43:18):
It's like, oh, thank you somuch, Rona, for checking in on
me. I've never been to this.Leave me alone. So Right. That's
one.
Like, start that relationship.People always get and they give
you good feedback that you knowfor the future as well. And I I
talked about the texting people.When I used to work in person, I
(43:39):
would always go to lunch withthe new hire at some point
during their 1st 2 weeks.
Amy Davies (43:45):
Wow. That's amazing. Yeah. That's really good.
Because you're like the firstline of defense.
Right? And the other thing, youknow, that you're making me
think of is that we go through alearning curve whenever we're
learning new technology and alsowhen we're starting a new
business. And if you don't knowa lot about the learning curve,
I'm sure it's something you canlook up. It's it's fairly well
(44:06):
known. But we go through thesevery uncomfortable phases of a
learning curve where we'reconscious that well, I wanna say
our perceived incompetence.
Right? We're consciousconsciously incompetent, And
that can be an awful feeling fora new hire. So I love that
you're checking in along the waybecause you actually and you're
(44:26):
a pretty empathic person. Ithink you'd probably be able to
pick up on pretty quickly ifthey're struggling. Even if
they're getting all the supportthey need, it doesn't mean
they're not struggling.
And a lot of us are conditionedto smile and nod even if we're
having a really tough time andadmitting, hey. I actually need
help here. So I love that you dothat because there's just so
many opportunities to improvethe candidate's outcome, but
(44:50):
also improve the outcome for theorganization.
Rhona Pierce (44:53):
And and the reason why I think and I always tell
any team and I encourage andrequire any recruiter on my team
to do this, it's because we'renatural relationship builders.
It's what we do. That's notnecessarily the personality of
other people on HR team Mhmm. Orthe team where the person works.
(45:13):
You are the relationshipbuilder.
Go ahead and continue doing thatand let leverage that
information. That's also how youbecome a true partner to the
business because you're bringingback information that is helpful
and helps set the person up forsuccess.
Amy Davies (45:29):
It's so funny because whenever I go to HR
events, I always could tell whothe recruiters and the talent
acquisition folks are. You canalways tell. It almost feels
like you're at a salesconference when you're talking
to these people, which Iabsolutely love. But this is a
great asset that an organizationhas either as a partner or
(45:49):
internally. So utilize thatasset.
Rhona Pierce (45:52):
It's funny. I I was recently at a conference at
breakfast and Yeah. One of thethe ladies hosted a dinner at
the zoo. So this was a bunch ofrecruiters in a room with 2 of
the zookeepers giving us apresentation about animals and
and tigers and telling useverything about it. They had
(46:12):
the they said any questions atthe end.
And I don't think these 2 guyswere ready for the amount of
questions and the like, theywere great questions. They were
happy. They told me, we we evenknow how you get a job as a
zookeeper. Oh my gosh. Yes.
We asked of everything. That'sjust who we are, and I I just
(46:33):
kept laughing. I'm like, theywere not ready for being in a
room full of recruiters. We knowall about the animals. We know
all about their job.
We know if they like their job,by the way. They told us all of
this. Yeah. That's just a
Amy Davies (46:45):
You get a lot out of people. Yeah. Then that's,
again, that's another thing.Like, people will tell you
things that they might not telltheir manager. Right?
And it's not that you're gonnabreak their confidence, but
there's certainly ways or theirconfidentiality, but there are
ways that you can give the alittle indication to the
organization that maybe there'sa little intervention needed.
Rhona Pierce (47:07):
Yes. And, also, it's a great way to get feedback
on your process. Right? At day90, when I do that 90 day
check-in, I ask kind of like, Idon't ask this way, but it's
like, look. Now we're besties.
Now you trust me. I didn't leaveyou hanging dry. Right. What can
I change about the recruitingprocess? Go back and tell me
(47:28):
what did you like and what didyou not like?
Yes. They've already have thespilled out the NPS survey. They
already have that information.But now 90 days in, what could I
have done as a recruiter to setyou up for success for this role
and other people coming along?Some of the best feedback I've
got has been at that 90 day whenI asked that question.
Amy Davies (47:49):
Yeah. And, you know, it is really important to survey
your employees as like, not todo your engagement survey, but
actually a new hire survey. Andif you ever do plan on
refreshing or revamping youronboarding program, make sure
that you do the research inadvance and you run the same
survey that you're gonna run-in3, 6 months, a year with your
(48:11):
new hires because guess what?You can benchmark your success,
which means you have a startingdata point, and you're gonna be
investing in your onboardingprogram. So you we like to make
HR leaders look like rock starsin their organization.
So we always say when you'regonna start a new program, do
the research early, and then youcan go back to that same data
(48:33):
and say, hey. We improvedsatisfaction with onboarding by
x amount a year later. Andthat's a very powerful way to
justify the work and investment.And, again, your CFO is gonna
love that.
Rhona Pierce (48:46):
Yes. So this has been an amazing conversation.
I'm sure everyone, all thelisteners are gonna get a
Amy Davies (48:52):
lot of value out of it. How can listeners connect
with you? Yeah. Well, the bestplace to go is LinkedIn. I feel
like I live there part time.
So so by all means, LinkedIn isa great place to start. And
then, of course, you can visitour website at, www.first 30,
the number 30, ready.com. But,yeah, those are the best ways,
(49:15):
and there's there's all kinds ofways you can find me on the
website as well. Perfect.
Rhona Pierce (49:19):
And I'll include all of those links in the show
notes. Thank you again. This wasa great conversation. I'm so
excited.
Amy Davies (49:26):
Well, thank you so much for having me. I learned a
lot too. You know, it's alwaysgreat to talk to people like you
who are as excited as I am aboutemployee onboarding and making
sure that both the employee andthe company are they're both
successful in this process. 1 isnot more important than the
other. So seeing someone elsewho's an employee advocate is is
(49:48):
really great.
Rhona Pierce (49:49):
If you want more actionable advice, like the
advice shared in this episode, Iwrite a weekly newsletter for TA
professionals who want to take amore strategic approach to
recruiting. You can sign up atthrowouttheplaybook.com/newsletter.
That'sthrowouttheplaybook.com/newsletter.
(50:09):
The link is in the show notes.
33% of new hires leave an organization within
their 1st 6 months, which isabsolutely crazy. Amy Davies is
the founder of First 30, helpingcompanies transform their
employee experience throughstrategic onboarding. When
people think about onboarding, Ithink most people think about
(00:23):
the paperwork and theorientation. How do you define
successful onboarding?
Amy Davies (00:30):
If you have set your employee up for success, you've
given them the information theyneed to succeed, they have the
tools they need to do their job,and they feel both physically
and psychologically safe in yourorganization.
Rhona Pierce (00:45):
But there's a critical window that changes
everything.
Amy Davies (00:49):
Once we've kind of imprinted, we build cognitively,
we build what's called a beliefsystem. And once that belief
system is established, it's verydifficult, if not impossible, to
change.
Rhona Pierce (01:02):
How do poor onboarding practices affect a
company's bottom line?
Amy Davies (01:08):
It costs at least, at a minimum, 30 to 50 percent
of an employee salary to replacethem.
Rhona Pierce (01:14):
Yet most companies continue to make the same
devastating mistake.
Amy Davies (01:19):
We need to make the managers feel accountable for
the success on their team. Thisis really important for the
Rhona Pierce (01:25):
health of your organization. We talk about
being strategic recruiters,strategic partners to the
business. You can't be on yourown creating beautiful programs
that no one cares about and thatno one knows about. Tell the
story
Amy Davies (01:44):
of how onboarding is gonna make a meaningful
difference. Everyone loves astory, and if you got the data
to back it up.
Rhona Pierce (01:54):
So thank you so much for being on the show with
me today, Amy. I'm so excitedfor this topic. I am really
excited to be here. I love theconversation we had
Amy Davies (02:04):
a few weeks ago. I've been following you now on
LinkedIn, and you're justamazing. I love love the content
that you produce, so I'm so gladwe are connected now.
Rhona Pierce (02:15):
Thank you. Yes. Likewise. So of all the things
and employee experience, whatinspired you to focus on
onboarding?
Amy Davies (02:25):
It might not be what you expect. When I started my
business First 30, we actuallywork in the outplacement field.
So we help employees who havebeen laid off. So we work with
the companies, and we help themrecover from the job loss and
get back to work. And I decidedwhen I started the business that
I want to call it 1st 30 becauseI wanted it to be open to other
(02:45):
programs.
I thought, you know, I knowmyself. There's gonna be more to
come. This is chapter 1. And sosure enough, people thought we
were an onboarding companybecause of the name. Right?
1st 30. And so we startedgetting lots of calls about
employee onboarding, which I hadsome experience in. And then
over the years, I've spoken withso many companies about their
(03:07):
employee onboarding programs,and we sort of just organically
moved into that space. And nowthat I'm here, wow. It is such
an interesting area of thebusiness with so much
opportunity.
It seems like one of those funnythings that companies just have
so much trouble for you know,I'm sure they say for whatever
(03:28):
reason, but I know the reasonswhy they're having these issues.
And there's just like, there'sso much opportunity.
Rhona Pierce (03:34):
That is so interesting. And you were
totally right. I'd had never Iwould have never even thought
that because the name is First30. I thought you probably
started with onboarding andended up doing off board or out
placement because I know thatyou do that.
Amy Davies (03:50):
Yeah. Well, I was thinking of our business even
though all of our programsextend for more than 30 days. I
was taking some 30 day you know,I was doing yoga with Adrian,
and it they always have their 30day program. And I'm like, it
has such a nice ring to it. Sothat's how it all started.
And I'm I couldn't be happierwith where it's gotten to.
Rhona Pierce (04:09):
Amazing. So when people think about onboarding, I
think most people think about,like, the paperwork and the
orientation.
Amy Davies (04:17):
Yeah. How do you define successful onboarding?
Well, of course, these, youknow, paperwork and all those
things are part of a successfulonboarding program. But I see it
as if you have set your employeeup for success, you've given
them the information they needto succeed, they have the tools
(04:38):
they need to do their job, andthey feel both physically and
psychologically safe in yourorganization, then you've done a
really great job. And the otherthing is get them excited.
You know? I think too often wethink about, okay, we're ticking
boxes and getting things donefor the onboarding, but really
what we wanna focus on is theyshould be excited to walk in the
(05:01):
door on the 1st day, and thatmomentum should continue once
they arrive.
Rhona Pierce (05:07):
Yes. And we really we talk a lot about, like, first
impressions in hiring. I'm sureeveryone has heard how important
a first impression is. How doesthat psychology really apply to
a new
Amy Davies (05:20):
hire's 1st few weeks? Well, as you know, we
always say you don't get asecond chance to make a first
impression. But one of the bigmistakes that we make as
organizations is we don't askthe second question, which is
why? Why do you do you not get asecond chance to make a first
impression? And the reason comesdown to imprinting.
(05:41):
So if your listeners aren'tfamiliar with it, it's a
cognitive we're cognitivelyhighly receptive when we engage
with any new stimulus, whetherit be a new restaurant, whether
it be a new person, or whetherit be a new workplace. So we
really wanna think about thatimpression that we're making
because once we've kind ofimprinted, we built cognitively,
(06:02):
we build what's called a beliefsystem. And once that belief
system is established, it's verydifficult, if not impossible, to
change. So those first fewinteractions are so much more
meaningful than we realize. Itcan impact productivity.
It can impact a commitment tothe business and faith and trust
in the business. So we wannathink about you know? And
(06:26):
companies, I think, tend tothink that you're gonna get that
second chance to make a firstimpression because the person
maybe needs to be there, but itdoesn't really work that way.
And just because a company isdoing one thing or another,
doesn't mean that cognitivelywe're suddenly gonna change to
accommodate our employer. That'sjust not possible.
Rhona Pierce (06:46):
Is there a, like, length or a period where that
imprinting takes place? Is itfirst few times you interact
with a recruiter? Is it firstdays with your manager?
Amy Davies (06:57):
It's so great that you bring that up because I'm
often asked, do I see recruitingas part of the onboarding
process? I think of once you'vesigned a job offer, that's when
the actual preboarding and Iwould consider preboarding part
of onboarding. That's when thatprocess begins. But it's not to
say that the whole candidateexperience doesn't have an
(07:17):
impact. So I do think that it'sreally important for recruiters
to think about the fact that theperson is imprinting as well and
try to look for opportunities tomake them feel, like we talked
about, safe, to make them feeltrust, to have sort of a
consistent positive experiencewith them, and then hopefully
(07:40):
that's continued once they movefrom the recruiter to the team.
Rhona Pierce (07:44):
And there's something that I always talk
about retention. Anyone who'sheard about, this podcast knows
that I talk about retention andthat my hot take is that
recruiters are responsible forretention as well, not just
getting people in the door. Sohow does effective onboarding
impact employee retention andengagement?
Amy Davies (08:07):
Yeah. So we know that there's a lot of data
around the improvements that agreat onboarding program will
lift engagement by 82% and butwe also know that it improves
retention. And one thing I willsay is companies are very, very
bad at tracking their retentionrates. So if you're a recruiter
(08:28):
listening to this or HR personlistening to this, start
tracking your retention rates,especially if you're just about
to make some improvements toyour employee onboarding program
because it can be a huge successstory for you. Right now, about
33% of new hires leave anorganization within their first
6 months, which is absolutelycrazy.
(08:51):
And we're gonna talk later aboutthe cost benefit analysis of
that, but it costs a lot ofmoney when people leave. So it
really does have a huge impactbecause think about it too. When
new hires start, sometimesthere's that sigh of relief,
isn't there? Because it's like,someone to fill this gap in the
organization. I'm finally gonnaget the help I need and the
(09:14):
expertise I need.
And then that person's out thedoor within a month or 2 months.
It's not just about the hardcost. It's about what is the
psychological impact to theemployees that are constantly
going through this.
Rhona Pierce (09:27):
Yes. And I even say it to the recruiters. Like,
at some point, you feel likeyou're on a hamster wheel of
recruiting for the same exactrole over and over again. And
it's like that's why I say it'sso important, the role of the
recruiter, because it's like,look. If you keep hiring for the
same role, you're part of theproblem too because you should
(09:50):
know from what the people who'veleft have said their feedback.
And if you are in contact withthem, you should know what you
need to be looking for. Look.It's something as sometimes you
know that the hiring managerthat you're hiring for is a
micromanager. Then be sure tohire someone and present
candidates that are totally okaywith micromanaging. Because,
(10:13):
yes, ideally, should that exist?
No. But as a recruiter, can youjust change that? Exist? I mean,
is is it is it okay? Is itshould it be the case?
Yeah. But you can't change that.Right? You're not the person's
manager. You're not inmanagement.
So as a recruiter, you adapt andadjust and you find the people
that would fit in there. That'swhy I say Yeah. Retention is our
(10:35):
thing.
Amy Davies (10:35):
Yes. Yeah. And it's you know, I love that you think
that as a recruiter too, becausetoo often it's the case where I
think companies' experiencesthat the recruiter kinda
considers their job over oncethe offer letter is signed. So
recruiters like you who are muchmore progressive and the advice
you're giving is is meaningfulto organizations because we need
(10:57):
the recruiter with the samepriorities as the organization.
Yeah.
It's really
Rhona Pierce (11:02):
the only way to succeed. And kind of along those
lines, and you mentionedpreboarding previously. So
preboarding is really animportant step before onboarding
even begins. How can recruitersstay involved during that phase?
Amy Davies (11:20):
Yeah. So, I mean, they can definitely set the new
hire up for success by maybesending them a text or giving
them a call the week before,making sure that they're ready
to go if they have anyquestions. Another thing that I
really like to do and Irecommend to our clients that
they do is send informationprecisely about what that person
(11:41):
needs to know for their 1st dayand make sure it applies to
them. What is the location ofthe office? What is the transit
situation?
What is the stop they need toget off at? Where's the parking?
Where are they gonna get theircoffee? I am really a slave to
my coffee, and I don't wannahave any doubt that I'm gonna be
(12:02):
able to get my coffee,especially on that first day.
And lunch.
Right? Like, what if there's nolunch facilities and you can't
buy lunch in the at the officeand you need to know to bring
your lunch in. You don't wantsomeone who is caffeine
deprived, tired, and thenthey're not eating during their
1st day. That is awful. So wewere talking about, you know,
(12:23):
making someone feel safe.
That's just another way. And Iwould get that message out
sooner rather than later, evensend it twice because they might
miss it the first time. A lot'sgoing on. And maybe the day
before they've had all thosedays to get nervous, like, maybe
send it a number of businessdays before they're getting
started and make sure thatmessage, I know I'm getting into
(12:45):
the weeds a bit, is clearlylabeled for them because you
know how hard it is to wadethrough emails, especially when
you have that nervous energy ofstarting a new job.
Rhona Pierce (12:55):
Yeah. And I I love that you've mentioned that. I I
think back to when I've beenactively recruiting. I know
every Sunday because most of thecompanies, there's always, like,
a first day. Right?
Amy Davies (13:06):
Yeah.
Rhona Pierce (13:07):
A defined first day. Very few companies, you can
start whatever day of the week.But larger companies where
there's, like, orientation andeverything planned, everyone,
let's say, starts on a Monday.The Sunday before, I was always
texting all of my candidates andbe like, hey. So excited.
If it's remote, it's like, login at this time because this is
this. And, obviously, I talk tothe hiring manager and Yeah. And
(13:30):
tell them about this. I'm nottelling someone to log in at 10
and their manager's expectingthem at 8 or anything like that.
But I tell them the things thatno one thinks about telling
them, like, hey.
I love to you're gonna be at theoffice for training. I don't
live there, but I love thecoffee shop right next door.
Amy Davies (13:46):
So nice. Yeah.
Rhona Pierce (13:48):
That type of thing. Like, really, people
aren't gonna ask this, but theyit's so important to know, and
it just takes off the stress ofthe first day. It's like Yeah.
Yeah. I love that.
Amy Davies (13:58):
And then they feel at home in the neighborhood
already. You're really trying towanting to make them feel at
home. I just wanted to add onething to what I was saying
because I think it's reallyimportant. And this might fall
to the recruiter too because ifthey're talking to the new hire,
maybe things aren't going right.Maybe they're not getting the
technology.
That's a big one. Not gettingsomeone's laptop to them or even
PPE, and they they can'tactually do their job, and
(14:22):
they're sort of mulling around.So one thing we really wanna be
careful of is we don't wannanormalize that for the employee.
It may be a blip or it might bea bigger problem that the
organization has to address. Butif I'm a new hire, I shouldn't
be hearing from anyone, oh,that's just the sort of thing
that happens around here.
Get used to it. Right? And thatoften will happen with new hires
(14:44):
where people make thosecomments, and the whole trust is
starting to be broken down fromthat point.
Rhona Pierce (14:51):
Yeah. That that shouldn't be a thing. And, yeah,
as a recruiter, I always makesure I think it's I have a a
unique background of I've doneagency and I've done
marketplace, so I've doneexternal before moving into
internal. So I always have that,like, okay. I wanna make sure
that they get there to my clientthe first day.
Well, I took that when I wentinternal too. I wanna make sure
(15:13):
that IT I'm the person who'slike, do they have their
computer already? Oh, Rhona. Youdon't have to worry about that.
Absolutely.
I have to worry. I wanna makesure. And there have been places
where for whatever reason, thecomputer isn't ready. It did get
there. We tell the person youdon't have to log in this 1st
day.
You're still getting paid. Yeah.This is on us. Yeah. Your first
(15:35):
day starts when we consider thatyou are ready to start, when
we've set you up to success.
Part of that is having the toolsthat you need to start.
Amy Davies (15:46):
And, you know, Rona, that's another great point. And
one of the things I recommend toemployers is I know it's we it
feels weird, but let your newhire start late on their 1st
day, and then let them leaveearly because their manager
needs to be fresh too. So theirmanager can get in, check their
email, get their coffee. Andyou're seeing a theme here, I'm
(16:08):
sure. And the person's probablytired.
It's probably a place theyhaven't gone all you know, many
times before. So you just itmakes it so much more smooth
when you let them start late andleave early on their 1st day.
Rhona Pierce (16:21):
And I love the leave early part because how
many times have you not been onyour 1st day and it's like,
you're there counting theminutes till 5. Look. Everyone's
done training you. Cause they'relike finishing their day.
There's nothing that you have todo.
And you're just there, likeplaying this game of like, I'm
going to leave at 5:0:1 so thatI'm not that person. Come on.
(16:43):
Just, just leave
Amy Davies (16:44):
people from that. Yeah. And say it like, please
get out of here. We know this isyou know, we always lead let our
new hires leave. We always askour new hires to leave early on
their 1st day.
So, yeah, you have thatpermission structure all set up,
and it doesn't seem weird, andit doesn't seem like they're not
committed. But my goodness,there's nothing worse than
(17:04):
sitting around in your first daywith nothing to do and really
trying to look busy. It'sembarrassing and uncomfortable.
Rhona Pierce (17:10):
Yeah. It's just so awkward and so weird. Yeah. So
what are some of the commonchallenges that you see
organizations face when they'reimplementing onboarding
programs, and how can theyaddress these?
Amy Davies (17:25):
Well, there's a number of issues. I mean, one of
them is getting buy in from theorganization, and that can mean
many things. I think that thegreatest onboarding programs,
are there any refresh or revampto an onboarding program has a
senior sponsor in theorganization, so someone who
will advocate for it, someonewho will get the budget
necessary, and allow for thereto be dedicated resources. In
(17:47):
order to make that happen forthe HR team or whoever kind of
is seen to own onboarding, thebest thing you can do, and we're
gonna talk about it shortly, isto make sure that you have the
data and the numbers. Like, howmuch is new hire turnover
costing our business every year,and what can we do to improve
(18:07):
that?
Or are we not getting our newhires up to productivity as
quickly as we think we should beand that we're losing
opportunities because of that?So that is one. And then the
other is to make sure that ifyou are refreshing or revamping
your onboarding program, youwanna have a cross functional
team of managers who have hiredhave had new hires come in in
(18:31):
the last couple years toparticipate in the process
because we can set up the bestemployee onboarding program, and
then no one utilizes it becausewe haven't got that buy in. So
as you know, people who areinvolved in the process of
change and who have helpedcreate the program are so much
more likely to advocate for itand to use it. So make sure that
(18:55):
you have that cross functionalteam, and you find out what's
working for them.
Because the other thing is wedon't wanna start fixing things
that aren't broken. Right? Butthat is a big barrier to getting
onboarding right. Because Ioften hear from organizations,
some managers are great at this,some not so much. Well, those
managers then need to becoached.
Right? So Yeah. Then there's anopportunity. The other thing I
(19:17):
heard just the other day istraining for managers about how
to onboard new hires isoptional. Can't be optional.
Everybody needs to know. Anyonewho's hiring needs to know how
to onboard how the organizationis set up to onboard this
person, and they there is aprocess they need to follow for
(19:38):
sure.
Rhona Pierce (19:38):
That's so interesting. How can that be
optional?
Amy Davies (19:42):
Yeah. I don't understand it myself, but I
think because people are so busyin organizations, that's where I
think the senior sponsorshipcomes in. That's where the cross
functional teams that's we needto make managers feel
accountable for the success ontheir team. It's not to say it's
all up to them at all. And justbecause someone leaves doesn't
(20:02):
mean their manager has donesomething wrong, but there does
need to be a certainaccountability.
This is really important for thehealth of your organization.
Rhona Pierce (20:10):
I love how you mentioned the the sponsor and
the senior sponsor. And on thispodcast, we talk about being
strategic recruiters, strategicpartners to the business. You
can't be on your own creatingbeautiful programs that no one
cares about and that no oneknows about because you're gonna
(20:30):
continue to be saying to your HRand TA peers, I just want a seat
at the table. Well, to get aseat at the table, you have to
speak people's language and youhave to bring them in on the
things that you do. Onboardingis a beautiful and perfect way
to start those cross functionalthings because it's just the
(20:51):
nature of it.
There's no way this is only anHR thing. And it's an exciting
part of
Amy Davies (20:57):
the business too. Right? Every people do get
excited about improvingonboarding programs. They get
excited about participating inthat. You could set up buddy
programs where, you know, HRmight be the one to start
setting them up, but it's agreat opportunity to let your
more junior employees shinebecause they can play a large
(21:17):
role in that.
So there's so many exciting, funthings that you can do with
onboarding that have you know, Italk in in a lot of the sessions
that I do with HR leaders. It'slike this is feel good. Right?
Like, I talk a lot aboutcreating a praise culture.
Creating a praise culture, it'sa feel good thing, but it
actually has a business benefit.
(21:38):
And the numbers back that up.So, yes, it's feel good, but
it's also gonna help yourbusiness be more profitable.
Yes. A 100%. And like you said,the buddy program, I mean, it
also helps with with youremployee engagement.
Okay. So now you've
Rhona Pierce (21:52):
been working there. Everyone wants to get
promoted. Everyone can't getpromoted. Yeah. Everyone needs
to work up to being promoted.
So when you take someone who'son that track and give them an
additional responsibility, ofcourse, with their buying. It
feels so good that you'rehelping the company and you're
(22:13):
helping welcome the new peopleon your team. I mean, the I I've
never really seen anywhere whereI've implemented a buddy program
where the buying from theemployees working as buddies
isn't, like, something thateveryone wants to do. It's like,
we usually get, like, too manypeople wanting to do it.
Amy Davies (22:31):
People who wanna do it. Yes. I've seen that as well,
and it's exciting to see. Yeah.
Rhona Pierce (22:37):
Yeah. So everyone knows I love content. I'm a
content creator, and contentdoesn't only mean the external
content that you post online. Ilove to tell that to people.
When I say content, it's notonly that.
So in respect to onboarding,lots of companies just hand you
(22:58):
a booklet, either a virtual oneor a real one, and there's
information overload when itcomes to onboarding. How do you
approach breaking this contentdown into information into
pieces that is digestible forthe new hire?
Amy Davies (23:14):
I would say that a lot of companies have HRIS, and
their HRIS has not prioritizedonboarding. So this can be
difficult to do with that,except the very, very highest
end ones. So you might have tothink about the how this
happens, but, certainly, sendingout information in bite sized
(23:34):
chunks is a really good idea. SoI always say that onboarding
should not be an avalanche ofinformation. It should be a
babbling brook because memoriesare fragile at the best of
times.
But when you have that, youknow, nervous energy maybe or
your you have informationoverload, your memory is like a
sieve, and maybe theorganization feels like they're
(23:57):
taking a box by giving it all toyou, but you're not remembering
any of it anyway. We have tothink about how different
learning styles might apply hereas well. Some people really
respond well to the in personcontent being delivered, and
then other people prefer toreview things and go over them
themselves, maybe a combinationof those 2. But, again, it can't
(24:17):
be all at once. So I think thatemail sequencing tools are
really good for this.
Some systems have them. Someorganizations won't. There's
great programs that marketersuse. You might wanna talk to
your marketing team. You couldprobably talk to us if you don't
know what they are.
But getting it programmed sothat new hires every few days
(24:38):
receive or even every day forthe 1st week or 2 receive
information, that's what we dowith our program and our
platform is we space it out. Soyou're each day you're getting
something and the emails areclearly labeled, and then
there's a place that might lookand feel a little bit different
than your SharePoint or yourintranet sites. Because what
(25:02):
happens is if everything looksexactly the same, people are
gonna forget what onboardingversus everything else is. So we
have a platform that we use withclients, and some of them
actually leave it branded first30 so that their employees know
what to look for and what isonboarding content versus
everything else in theorganization. That's amazing.
(25:24):
And I love the concept of thedrip campaign
Rhona Pierce (25:27):
Yes. For onboarding. And and this is also
an opportunity for you toleverage the again, these cross
functional relationships. Thisis where you talk to marketing
about tools. Yep.
If you have an internal commsteam, they can help you with the
drip campaigning and all ofthat. For sure, they can. Yeah.
And your your learning anddevelopment team, they can help
(25:49):
you create this program. So alot of times with onboarding, it
just falls on HR, and we shouldbe able to know and leverage the
resources that we have.
Look. You're good at hiring.You're good at compliance if
you're in HR. You're good atwhatever piece you are. You're
not necessarily a marketer, aninternal communicator, or, like,
someone who creates learning anddevelopment programs.
(26:12):
If you have these people in yourorganization, bring them in to
help shape this program so thatit's successful. Yeah. And can
we talk for a minute about the
Amy Davies (26:22):
look and feel of the resources that you're getting?
Because you and I are bothprobably mark very marketing
minded as well as in addition toeverything else, and that's a
learned skill. Right? So justbecause you're doing something
else and you don't have thoseskills today, doesn't mean you
can't learn them. We both learnthem, and they're actually fun
to learn.
But what I see with onboardingmaterials is it's like this
(26:44):
hodgepodge of all of thesedifferent resources from
different departments withdifferent looks and feels and
fonts and logos. And some ofthem are 20 years old, and some
of them were produced last year.And when we think of content,
like we're talking cognitivelyhow we respond to new stimulus,
consistency breeds trust. Soconsider that. Consistency
(27:07):
breeds trust.
And we want those things to alllook cohesive because
familiarity also inspires trust.So that's more important than
people realize, and it can makea bigger difference. It's just
not something that companiesseem to think matters all that
much. They care about theirexternal brand. But if you look
(27:31):
at any of the top brands in theworld, as soon as you look at
the page or the the online ad oryou walk in their store, you
know you're there.
Just by the colors and theshapes that you are seeing,
you've got that, and that's whatyou want with your onboarding
material as well.
Rhona Pierce (27:48):
You wanna hear a funny story? Yes. Once got in
trouble for bothering themarketing team because when I
started at a company to leadtheir TA team, I asked them for
their brand kit. Okay. They'relike, that's for no.
You don't
Amy Davies (28:06):
don't worry about that.
Rhona Pierce (28:07):
That's for external. That's for marketing.
Why are you bothering them?They're they're busy. I'm like,
wait.
So your internal stuff doesn'tfollow what your brand kit is,
and I'm not bothering someone.Just send it to me. I know you
have it. But, yeah, that that'show people don't understand that
it's one brand. Your employerbrand, your internal brand with
(28:27):
your employees, your Yeah.
It's one brand. And the more youmake it look the same yeah. And
the more you make it look thesame, like you said, the more
people identify with it.
Amy Davies (28:39):
Yeah. And I do wanna add that I think organizations
should have people who are asexcited and committed as you are
about this. And we wanna makesure there is an excitement
factor that does add somethingand, well, you have all the
expertise, but there is thatsecret something that great
(29:00):
contributors have. And it mightnot be that this this individual
isn't excited about other thingsto do with their work, but when
you're thinking of refreshingand revamping an onboarding
program, find people to leadthese projects who are actually
excited about them, not someonewho's gonna consider it just an
add on and and is not somethingthey wanna do. So instead of
(29:20):
telling people kinda who's doingit, maybe find the people who
are really interested in thisand get help, you know, help
them figure out a way to be theones to lead that project.
Great. Great point. Any other,like, big mistakes that you see
companies make with theironboarding materials? Well, I
(29:41):
think that the other thing, andI kind of brought it up already,
is that they'll send out oneemail with a catchall where
everything's in that one. And soif and they could name it, like,
welcome to, you know, 1st 30 orwelcome to whatever business.
And then they don't that that'sthe only time that the employees
got an email, especially ifthere's calls to action in those
(30:05):
messages. That is so easilymissed. Again, we're dealing
with people that have thatnervous energy. They're trying
to make a good impression, andthere's nothing more
embarrassing than not, you know,having that available to you and
then having to go ask someone.So the other mistake I think
that companies make is if youhave a benefits program, if you
(30:26):
have a payroll system, there'sprobably resources that are
guided.
You know? They're like taskbased videos. Here's how you do
this. Here's how you do this.Share them with your employees
so often.
I mean, the company that'sproviding you those benefits
probably has that all set up.It's probably available on
YouTube. Just link to thosetraining those little training
(30:51):
modules because then when youremployee, after 2 or 3 months,
they have to fill out theirfirst benefit, you know, form.
They don't have to go to theirmanager and say, oh, here's my
here's my prescription. How do Ido this?
That's so embarrassing.
Rhona Pierce (31:07):
It doesn't make anyone feel good. So you wanna
definitely think about how doyou enable them to have easy
access to that information. Andtimely. Timing information is
the most important because, yes,you start and they you they give
you all this information in your1st days, but open enrollment
doesn't necessarily fall duringyour 1st days.
Amy Davies (31:29):
Yes.
Rhona Pierce (31:29):
So why not everyone who's been onboarded
that year before open enrollmenta week or two before, send them
a refresher email from that dripcampaign that you said. Hey.
Open enrollment is coming up.This is your first time doing it
at this company. Here's arefresher of how it's done.
Here's where you log in. You'llget more information from HR as
(31:50):
you go. But that way, peoplearen't like, wait. What is this?
Asking HR, asking the managers.
You're having a benefitsconversation, and some people
are asking, wait. What's theportal that I log into? Yeah.
Amy Davies (32:03):
We're like Absolutely. Catch them up to
where everyone else is. Andthere's really great ways. Like,
First 30 does this. So fulldisclosure, I can't be objective
about this because we do have aplatform that does this.
But you can create a really nicespace for your new hires to go
to access all of thisinformation that's organized. So
(32:26):
often I see this sort of data orthis resource dump on a page
that's not clearly labeled,that's not color coded, and they
expect people to be able to soeasily navigate it. We're used
to using technology that is userfriendly. You know, if you shop
on Amazon, if you use Netflix,it should be that easy for them.
(32:48):
So, you know, you can alwaystalk to me, of course, but maybe
there's other technologies outthere you can use that are are
great or a learning managementsystem.
But it needs to be housed in away that it makes it easy for
employees to find things evenmonths after they started their
job.
Rhona Pierce (33:04):
100 100000000%. And I come from a background of
software engineering and projectmanagement. One of my favorite
books of all time is calledDon't Make Me Think. It's a
very, very easy read, and it'snot technical at all. It's
really helped me in everyprogram, everything that I've
(33:26):
done, even after leaving thetechnical world because that's
how we think.
The the whole book is about useweb usability. It's probably way
dated because I haven't donethis or maybe they have a new
version. But Mhmm. Don't makepeople think. That's the whole
concept.
Make it so clear. You go toAmazon, you know exactly where
to do things even if you'venever been on Amazon before.
(33:50):
That's how your internalcommunication or everything that
you do for your employees shouldbe. They shouldn't need training
to figure out where your thingsare. Well and that's the hard
part.
Right? Because a
Amy Davies (34:02):
lot of these the HRIS or these other platforms,
they do certain things really,really well, and a company
doesn't wanna have to keeppaying for all this new
technology. The problem is thesystems you have don't do what
we've described well. You know?And that's just the reality of
it. So it's hard becausecompanies say they'll say they
(34:22):
have an onboarding module, butthat's not what it does, and
that's not what it was builtfor.
So just start looking fortechnology that's built for what
you're needing to solve, andyou're gonna have a much your
employees are gonna have a muchbetter experience.
Rhona Pierce (34:36):
Yes. So how do poor onboarding practices affect
a company's bottom line?
Amy Davies (34:44):
Yes. So I like to think of it as a calculation
because we talked earlier aboutwe know that we lose a lot of
new hires if we don't have agreat onboarding program. It
costs at least, at a minimum, itcosts 30 to 50% of an employee
salary to replace them as arecruiter. You know that stat so
well. But it can be up to 200%because of the lost working
(35:07):
hours, because of the impact onother employees when these
things happen.
So what we wanna do is we wannatrack the amount of people that
we're losing within the first,like, I would say even 18
months. That might be able to berelated back to your onboarding.
Take that number. Take the soyou take an average of what the
(35:28):
salary would be. So say you haveyou know, you hire 40 people a
year.
You're losing 13. You've I'vegot all the calculations here,
actually. I figured this out. Sosay you average the salary of 60
k and you times that by 13 anddivide it by 2. Maybe we should
put this calculation in the shownotes.
(35:48):
That's $390,000. Okay? Andthat's just 13 employees. You
know? I use the unlucky number13 so people would remember it.
Share that calculation with yourleadership and help them
understand that, you know, forus, a significantly smaller
amount of money, you couldimprove your onboarding program.
(36:11):
And the data shows that thatimproves productivity by 70%,
new hire retention by 82%. Sothere's all these fun ways to
explain in ways that a CFO wouldreally gravitate towards how
making the small investment andthis relatively small amount of
(36:32):
time spent will truly improvethe bottom line.
Rhona Pierce (36:36):
We are friends of the CFO here on this podcast,
and I like to ask all of myguests. Anytime we talk about
new things because we'rethrowing out the playbook.
Right? We're doing thingsdifferently. What's the business
case for onboarding and preonboarding?
How do I tell my CFO, let's bebesties. I need money.
Amy Davies (36:56):
Yeah. So that is a great place to start, and then,
obviously, you wanna understandwhat the investment will be to
make things these things happenand whether you need external
services like a First 30 or likea great HR consultant or
whatever it is you need toactually make it happen. Because
(37:16):
what I find with a lot oforganizations, unless they act
and I'm this is gonna sound likeit's self promoting, but I I
totally don't mean it that waybecause I've seen it happen so
many times before. It getsdeprioritized when it's someone
internal running it,unfortunately. So that's where
an external consultant canreally help move the needle a
(37:37):
lot more quickly.
You need an an organization thathas great project management
skills so they can help keepeveryone on task. So that is you
know, look at the numbers, showthem the cost of the business,
show them the potential benefit,especially if you're having a
new hire retention problem. Itcan go a long way. And then
explain to them what, you know,talk to them about imprinting.
(38:01):
What is the cognitive responsethat we have?
Learn a little more about it.You know, put up some fun
slides. Tell the story of howonboarding is gonna make a
meaningful difference. Everyoneloves a story, and if you got
the data to back it up, that isgonna be so helpful. And then
maybe you can show them like,hey.
We could we could go take a takean organization you think is
(38:23):
doing it really well. We couldgo from this and then show them
what the outcome could looklike. We could go from this to
this. I always think that is areally great and powerful way
to, you know, make a case forinvesting in onboarding.
Rhona Pierce (38:38):
Love it. And I wouldn't be me if I don't talk
about my video, you know, howmuch I love video. Yes. Is there
an opportunity to use video toenhance an onboarding experience
for new hires?
Amy Davies (38:53):
Yes. So with a platform like ours, we actually
have the capability to add avideo to every single date of
the program. I love that, butvery few organizations will
commit to having a, every day,there's like a 1 or 2 minute
video of a you know, in theprogram that the person is
taking. But if you don't haveyou know, if your organization
(39:15):
is not gonna sign up for that,which I totally understand,
Certainly in preboarding, youcan send them a message from the
leadership team. You could sendthem a message from different
people on the team.
You probably have videos thatyou share externally about your
vision, mission, values, yourbrand for your customers or your
clients. Share those videos aswell. So you might not have to
(39:37):
do a ton of work. And, hey,here's the other thing. You and
I both know that some of thegreatest videos can be filmed
just on our iPhone.
Right?
Rhona Pierce (39:45):
Yes.
Amy Davies (39:46):
And it and sometimes that authenticity of just a CEO
or CFO on an iPhone saying youdon't have to do it
personalized. Just say, hey. I'mso glad you've joined the
business. We're looking forwardto having you start. Here's a
few things you might wanna knowabout the organization.
And it it can feel very it'ssincere. Right? So you're you
(40:06):
don't have to spend a fortune atthis anymore. We have so many
simple resources that areavailable to us that are are in
our hands every day, probablypretty much attached to us. Yes.
So there is no excuse, andthey've got great cameras on
them.
Rhona Pierce (40:22):
Yeah. And, also, never assume that your new hire
has seen all of your employerbranding materials. Absolutely.
Yes. That's absolutely right.
Because even if you sent them,even if it's plastered all over
your careers page, look, there'sso many people who've never seen
it or they don't remember it.You have to see things many
(40:43):
times to actually remember. So,look, if they've seen it
already, they're just gonna skipit. It's fine.
Amy Davies (40:49):
No one's going to die. Leverage your materials.
But exactly. There's nothingwrong with the reminder. We just
talked about the fact thatmemories are fragile.
Rhona Pierce (40:58):
So anything about onboarding that I didn't ask
that you think is important forlisteners to know?
Amy Davies (41:05):
Well, the last thing I would say about onboarding is
the same as planting a tree.Right? When is the best time to
plant a tree? It's 20 years agoor today? Same with your
onboarding program.
If you haven't invested in it,it was probably a good idea to
do it 5, 10, 20 years ago. Buttoday, it's also a really good
day to invest in youronboarding. But, actually, I did
(41:26):
have a question for you. Youtalked about helping new
candidates succeed, and I wasjust wondering because I I would
like to also take this back tomy clients as well is, you know,
what are some of the things as arecruiter, you mentioned some of
them, but you do to help yournew hire succeed, whether it's
(41:46):
within the, you know, preboarding, within the 1st week,
month, year, whatever it is.
Rhona Pierce (41:51):
I like to say I love to stay in touch with my
new hires. Our relationshipdoesn't end once you are hired
for many reasons. Right? You'vealready formed that bond. They
trust you.
So I check-in with people, andand I make anyone on my team
(42:11):
check-in with their new hires.30, 60, 90 days. And the 1st
week, we check-in every day. Somany tie yes. So many times,
we've saved someone from leavingfor a misunderstanding.
Right? We talk a lot about somecandidates feel they were
catfished by, oh, the recruitertold me this, this, and then I
(42:35):
start the 1st day and thishappens. Or I was told this
during hiring, and this is nowhappening. As a recruiter, you
can get in front of those thingsand be like, hey, hiring
manager. There's where's thebreakdown?
What's happening? And Yeah.We've been able to save it
because it's, most of the time,just a misunderstanding. Yeah.
If you leave that unchecked,they have no one to talk to
(42:57):
because they're just starting arelationship with their hiring
manager, right, with theirmanager and their team.
They're not necessarily gonnacomplain. They don't wanna be
seen as that. What they're goingto do is keep looking for a job.
They were just on the jobmarket. So if you get ahead of
that and you've truly formed arelationship with them, people
are always so amazed.
(43:18):
It's like, oh, thank you somuch, Rona, for checking in on
me. I've never been to this.Leave me alone. So Right. That's
one.
Like, start that relationship.People always get and they give
you good feedback that you knowfor the future as well. And I I
talked about the texting people.When I used to work in person, I
(43:39):
would always go to lunch withthe new hire at some point
during their 1st 2 weeks.
Amy Davies (43:45):
Wow. That's amazing. Yeah. That's really good.
Because you're like the firstline of defense.
Right? And the other thing, youknow, that you're making me
think of is that we go through alearning curve whenever we're
learning new technology and alsowhen we're starting a new
business. And if you don't knowa lot about the learning curve,
I'm sure it's something you canlook up. It's it's fairly well
(44:06):
known. But we go through thesevery uncomfortable phases of a
learning curve where we'reconscious that well, I wanna say
our perceived incompetence.
Right? We're consciousconsciously incompetent, And
that can be an awful feeling fora new hire. So I love that
you're checking in along the waybecause you actually and you're
(44:26):
a pretty empathic person. Ithink you'd probably be able to
pick up on pretty quickly ifthey're struggling. Even if
they're getting all the supportthey need, it doesn't mean
they're not struggling.
And a lot of us are conditionedto smile and nod even if we're
having a really tough time andadmitting, hey. I actually need
help here. So I love that you dothat because there's just so
many opportunities to improvethe candidate's outcome, but
(44:50):
also improve the outcome for theorganization.
Rhona Pierce (44:53):
And and the reason why I think and I always tell
any team and I encourage andrequire any recruiter on my team
to do this, it's because we'renatural relationship builders.
It's what we do. That's notnecessarily the personality of
other people on HR team Mhmm. Orthe team where the person works.
(45:13):
You are the relationshipbuilder.
Go ahead and continue doing thatand let leverage that
information. That's also how youbecome a true partner to the
business because you're bringingback information that is helpful
and helps set the person up forsuccess.
Amy Davies (45:29):
It's so funny because whenever I go to HR
events, I always could tell whothe recruiters and the talent
acquisition folks are. You canalways tell. It almost feels
like you're at a salesconference when you're talking
to these people, which Iabsolutely love. But this is a
great asset that an organizationhas either as a partner or
(45:49):
internally. So utilize thatasset.
Rhona Pierce (45:52):
It's funny. I I was recently at a conference at
breakfast and Yeah. One of thethe ladies hosted a dinner at
the zoo. So this was a bunch ofrecruiters in a room with 2 of
the zookeepers giving us apresentation about animals and
and tigers and telling useverything about it. They had
(46:12):
the they said any questions atthe end.
And I don't think these 2 guyswere ready for the amount of
questions and the like, theywere great questions. They were
happy. They told me, we we evenknow how you get a job as a
zookeeper. Oh my gosh. Yes.
We asked of everything. That'sjust who we are, and I I just
(46:33):
kept laughing. I'm like, theywere not ready for being in a
room full of recruiters. We knowall about the animals. We know
all about their job.
We know if they like their job,by the way. They told us all of
this. Yeah. That's just a
Amy Davies (46:45):
You get a lot out of people. Yeah. Then that's,
again, that's another thing.Like, people will tell you
things that they might not telltheir manager. Right?
And it's not that you're gonnabreak their confidence, but
there's certainly ways or theirconfidentiality, but there are
ways that you can give the alittle indication to the
organization that maybe there'sa little intervention needed.
Rhona Pierce (47:07):
Yes. And, also, it's a great way to get feedback
on your process. Right? At day90, when I do that 90 day
check-in, I ask kind of like, Idon't ask this way, but it's
like, look. Now we're besties.
Now you trust me. I didn't leaveyou hanging dry. Right. What can
I change about the recruitingprocess? Go back and tell me
(47:28):
what did you like and what didyou not like?
Yes. They've already have thespilled out the NPS survey. They
already have that information.But now 90 days in, what could I
have done as a recruiter to setyou up for success for this role
and other people coming along?Some of the best feedback I've
got has been at that 90 day whenI asked that question.
Amy Davies (47:49):
Yeah. And, you know, it is really important to survey
your employees as like, not todo your engagement survey, but
actually a new hire survey. Andif you ever do plan on
refreshing or revamping youronboarding program, make sure
that you do the research inadvance and you run the same
survey that you're gonna run-in3, 6 months, a year with your
(48:11):
new hires because guess what?You can benchmark your success,
which means you have a startingdata point, and you're gonna be
investing in your onboardingprogram. So you we like to make
HR leaders look like rock starsin their organization.
So we always say when you'regonna start a new program, do
the research early, and then youcan go back to that same data
(48:33):
and say, hey. We improvedsatisfaction with onboarding by
x amount a year later. Andthat's a very powerful way to
justify the work and investment.And, again, your CFO is gonna
love that.
Rhona Pierce (48:46):
Yes. So this has been an amazing conversation.
I'm sure everyone, all thelisteners are gonna get a
Amy Davies (48:52):
lot of value out of it. How can listeners connect
with you? Yeah. Well, the bestplace to go is LinkedIn. I feel
like I live there part time.
So so by all means, LinkedIn isa great place to start. And
then, of course, you can visitour website at, www.first 30,
the number 30, ready.com. But,yeah, those are the best ways,
(49:15):
and there's there's all kinds ofways you can find me on the
website as well. Perfect.
Rhona Pierce (49:19):
And I'll include all of those links in the show
notes. Thank you again. This wasa great conversation. I'm so
excited.
Amy Davies (49:26):
Well, thank you so much for having me. I learned a
lot too. You know, it's alwaysgreat to talk to people like you
who are as excited as I am aboutemployee onboarding and making
sure that both the employee andthe company are they're both
successful in this process. 1 isnot more important than the
other. So seeing someone elsewho's an employee advocate is is
(49:48):
really great.
Rhona Pierce (49:49):
If you want more actionable advice, like the
advice shared in this episode, Iwrite a weekly newsletter for TA
professionals who want to take amore strategic approach to
recruiting. You can sign up atthrowouttheplaybook.com/newsletter.
That'sthrowouttheplaybook.com/newsletter.
(50:09):
The link is in the show notes.
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