April 15, 2025 • 20 mins
Is your team ready for HR tech?
Recruitment technology has never evolved faster—but without a clear strategy, even the best tools can slow you down.
In this episode, I’m joined by Lisa Skinner, CHRO at Teamtailor, live from Transform 2025. We dig into one of the biggest blind spots in talent acquisition today: adopting HR tech without first asking the right questions.
From assessing team readiness to designing people-first systems, Lisa shares what it takes to make tech actually work—for your process, your candidates, and your hiring managers.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
• Why better tech won’t fix a broken process
• How to assess readiness across the employee lifecycle
• Common missteps companies make when implementing new tools
• What great hiring could look like 5 years from now
• How to keep candidate experience at the center of your tech strategy
Perfect for recruiters, HR leaders, and TA pros navigating the future of hiring—and looking to make smarter decisions that truly serve people, not just systems.
//TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 The Role of HR Tech in Simplifying Processes
02:58 The Evolution of Recruitment Technology
06:01 AI's Impact on Recruitment and Human Touch
08:57 Common Pitfalls in Adopting HR Tech
11:50 Future Trends in Hiring and Recruitment
14:59 Enhancing Candidate Experience and Inclusivity
****
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📹 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@teamtailorsoftware
🎙️ Podcast: https://www.teamtailor.com/en/happy-recruiting-podcast/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rhona Pierce (00:01):
HR tech should simplify your process, not add
to the chaos. But that onlyhappens when you start with
strategy, not just with thesoftware.
Lisa Skinner Källström (00:09):
But I think it's important to take a
step back and think, are weready? What are we trying to
solve? And are the users, is ourtarget group, are they ready?
Rhona Pierce (00:17):
That's Lisa Skinner, Team Taylor's CHRO. In
this episode that we recordedlive at Transform twenty twenty
five, we dig into how HR and TAleaders can make smarter, more
human centered decisions abouttechnology. Lisa shares how her
team uses Team Taylor's owntools, the biggest mistakes she
(00:38):
sees companies make whenadopting new tech, and her
vision for a more inclusive,streamlined, and people first
hiring experience. If you'renavigating change, championing
candidate experience, or simplytrying to make hiring less
chaotic and more human, thisone's for you.
So I'm so excited to be here with you, Lisa,
(01:00):
today. Thank you so much forbeing on the show.
Lisa Skinner Källström (01:02):
Thanks for having me. So exciting.
Rhona Pierce (01:04):
So before we dive in to talking about the future
of work, can you tell us alittle about your role as a CHRO
in Team Taylor?
Lisa Skinner Källström: Absolutely. So I've been with (01:10):
undefined
the company for nearly threeyears and an amazing journey.
When I joined, we were roughly200 people, and now we are about
500. So me and the team, we arebased in Stockholm and
supporting all of our locationsacross the globe and may doing
our best in setting upeverything from, like,
(01:31):
compliance, but, of course,focusing on employee engagement
and making sure that everyone isset up for success in order to
be the best they can at work.
Rhona Pierce (01:40):
Must be interesting to be a CHRO for a
HR tech company that's, like,helping other companies in their
hiring and all of that they do.Do you guys use your own tools
and the processes that yourecommend to your clients?
Lisa Skinner Källström (01:53):
Yes. Definitely. It is really, really
exciting and challenging aswell. And I must say coming into
the space, I worked with HR fora few years, but in other
industries. But it's also reallycool because there's such an
interest from our teams as wellsince they're talking so much to
other well, I mean, all of ourcustomers are in nature today.
So it's a lot of of questionsfrom our teams. They're really
(02:15):
curious about what we're doinginternally. And, of course,
using our own our own products.And it also puts, I guess,
higher demands on ourselvesbecause we want to make sure
that we use it in the bestpossible way and know all the
features and then, of course,work really close to our product
team. So when there are newfeatures, there's always
trainings for us internally, ofcourse, for our systems, but
(02:37):
also for us.
So to make sure that we reallyuse it at the best best way.
Rhona Pierce (02:41):
Cool. So recruitment technology and just
HR tech in general is evolvingreally fast. What are some of
the biggest shifts that youthink we're gonna be seeing in
the next few years?
Lisa Skinner Källström (02:53):
Of course, AI. Cannot not mention
AI. So I think that's bigfunctionality, but also more, I
think, user friendly toolsbecause I think also with, like,
new generations and I think HRbecoming more tech adopters as
well, that there are also morerequirements. Think back in the
days, I mean, all the systemsI've used, at times, you
(03:17):
couldn't be picky because youjust had a system and then you
just had to work with itregardless of how many clicks it
takes you to to hire acandidate. So I think, like,
user friendliness and then, ofcourse, using AI as part of
something which I think we willtake for granted.
I know when I talk to ourproduct team sometimes and ask
them about, like, the future andso on, I think now there's so
(03:37):
much focus because AI is stillquite new. But I know that
they've said to me as well,like, in a few years, no one
will even think about it becauseeveryone's just gonna take it
for granted that, of course,there's gonna be, like, AI built
in.
Rhona Pierce (03:48):
Yeah. And everyone's talking about AI now,
but there's so many otherthings. And what I like about
team Taylor is, like, you're notonly talking about AI. You're
definitely. But you're stilltalking about automation.
You're still talking aboutanalytics and things that are
important. Yes. AI is important.Is there anything that new or
anything coming in that area?Are you guys still innovating in
(04:08):
those areas as well?
Lisa Skinner Källström (04:09):
No. But definitely and I think, I mean,
all of these small features thatalso focus a lot on, like,
candidate experience and andjust, I guess, seamlessly on,
like, the back end where we areinternally doing our our hiring
with all these, like, smalltweaks and and and so on, which
are, again, enhancing thecandidate experience. A lot of
triggers that make sure that youthat the system works for you.
(04:33):
Like, if a candidate has been ina one stage for too long, then
the triggers can help you aswell make sure that they move
along in the system. So I thinkthings like that that might not
be visible externally, but thatreally help, again, focus on the
candidate.
So candidate and user, I think,are
Rhona Pierce (04:50):
Yeah. Still at the forefront of what you guys are
doing. So with AI playing alarger role in hiring, there's
this debate about how do webalance that with a human touch.
Because, yeah, everyone's sayingAI is gonna replace recruiters.
It's gonna replace everyone.
But we know that's not true. Atleast that's what I believe. How
(05:11):
do you balance, like, that as anHR tech company and just you in
general as you're managing yourteams?
Lisa Skinner Källström (05:18):
No. But I think, I mean, definitely,
it's an important question aswell. And I think this is one of
the biggest changes that's beenfor us working in recruiting and
and HR. So I can also understandthat it is scary and that some
people feel like, okay. If Istart using AI too much, am I
gonna be made redundant becausethen someone else can do my job?
So I can understand that there'sa fear of, like, using the
(05:39):
technology and fear of beingreplaced by AI. But the way I I
see it, I mean, AI should not beyour decision maker. That's
like, let's put that let'sdecide that. But then if you can
use AI to improve your yourprocess for example, there's
this amazing functionality inTintiller where you can have
(06:02):
your video interviewstranscribed by AI. And, I mean,
I've been doing recruiting since02/2001 when I started as a
researcher.
And, I mean, anyone who's donerecruiting, regardless if it's
that many years or or less, justthat possibility, not having to
take notes.
Rhona Pierce (06:19):
Exactly.
Lisa Skinner Källström (06:19):
Just being able to listen and be
present in an interview. I mean,just that thing is is just
amazing. So I try to think aboutAI. Okay. But how can I and the
team and any recruiter, what canI do with the time that AI
saves?
And in that case, if you'retalking about an interview, then
it's giving another level ofexperience to the candidate
because you're fully present.But then in other
(06:41):
functionalities like helping yousummarize a series or or helping
suggesting suitable candidatesor helping you write the job ad,
it doesn't mean that you justpost a job ad without sort of
reflecting. But it's more likeit's saving you time to do spend
your time doing other types ofwork, like engaging with hiring
(07:03):
managers, maybe coaching them ondifferent things or or or so on.
So I see it more as a tool forrecruiters to do other types of
work, if that makes sense.
Rhona Pierce (07:13):
Yeah. And it's a lot of the conversations that
I've been having today. As I'vebeen, like, talking to everyone
here on the floor at Transform,I've been asking them, and
people have said what you said.Like, AI for me is not a
decision maker, but it's I'mseeing it as I can save time
with this and all the thingsthat we've always wanted to do
as recruiters because we alwayshave all of these ideas of what
(07:34):
we need to do and how to improveour process, but there was no
time. Things like you mentioned,having to, like, remember an
interview because how do youstay engaged with someone on a
video interview and take notesand all of that?
Now you don't have to worry. Forme, that was a game changer when
I started using tools like thatbecause it's like, oh, I can
focus on the person. I can focuson the questions. Right. The
(07:57):
time that it saves me becausenow after an interview, I'm not
scrambling to write downeverything to remember to k.
Makes a few. I can use it formore strategic type
Lisa Skinner Källström (08:05):
of things.
Rhona Pierce (08:05):
So that that's been the consensus here. And I
love that because if you lookonline, you'll see recruiters
are going away, and recruitersare saying, maybe some of our
tasks are going away, but we'restay the companies that really
believe in doing this the rightway, we're staying around. We're
just doing the strategic workthat we've always wanted to
Lisa Skinner Källström (08:25):
do. No. I agree. And, I mean, you
mentioned the analytics functionas well, just being able to dive
into that and just having thattype of conversation as well
based on on data instead ofdoing your notes or so on. So
there's a lot of opportunity, Ithink.
But then, of course, it shouldbe you should use it with with
the care and respect and reallyunderstand how to use it, of
course.
Rhona Pierce (08:44):
So what do you think companies get wrong when
adopting new HR tech?
Lisa Skinner Källström (08:51):
Maybe not having thought about the
purpose. Why do we want to getinto, like, HR tech? Sometimes
it's my experience is like,okay. We we want to because we
have to, and maybe not havingtaken time identifying, okay,
but what area? Because, I mean,there if you just look at the
whole, like, employee lifecycle, you can there's systems
(09:12):
for, like, every part.
And maybe thinking about, okay,but where are we ready to
implement? Is it the initial? Isit the onboarding, preboarding?
Is it the hiring? Is itengagement?
What what are we trying tosolve? So maybe going back to
the drawing board and thinkingagain, what is the major
problem? What is our main task?What problem do we need to
solve? So I think that's onething, but then also
(09:33):
understanding the readiness
Rhona Pierce (09:36):
Yeah.
Lisa Skinner Källström (09:36):
In the company. And, again, it might be
if it's only HR using the tool,then maybe it's one thing, but
also trying to think about,okay, but are the users if
you're gonna engage hiringmanagers or any type of manager,
are they ready? Is it a goodtime in the year for them also
to to learn something new andand adopt this tool? Because I
think sometimes we in HR, we'reso good at just, like, trying to
(09:59):
solve our own challenges, and wewant to do a project and so on.
But I think it's important totake a step back and think, are
are we ready?
What are we yeah. Again, whatare we trying to solve here? And
is our are the users is ourtarget group, are they ready?
Rhona Pierce (10:12):
That's very important because it's like very
few of the softwares that we usein HR are only for us. Exactly.
Most of them, we interface withcandidates, with hiring
managers, with otherdepartments. So it's very
important to yeah. Do we knowwhat we're doing and why we're
doing this, why we're gettingthis?
And is everyone else ready forit? Because it can only be you.
(10:36):
And I think that's somethingthat is missed a lot of times,
especially like as you'reimplementing the software, it's
on you to bring in the peoplethat need to be part of the
implementation.
Lisa Skinner Källström (10:48):
Exactly.
Rhona Pierce (10:48):
Like your HR tech vendor can give you suggestions,
but they don't know yourcompany. So it's on you to have
that plan before you even engagethem in an implementation. No,
Lisa Skinner Källström (10:58):
I agree. And also thinking about like,
okay, the rest of the techstack, because I think in HR, I
mean, we maybe just want to beat the forefront and say like,
hey, we found this tool, butalso think about engage with IT
as well and say, hey. We foundthis tool. Is it something that
would work for us? What do wewant to integrate it with?
If we're using Slack or anyother type of tool, will this
(11:18):
work? So it's not like ending upbuying 10 different systems, I
guess. So that's important.
Rhona Pierce (11:23):
Which is what happens a lot. And I I hear it a
lot as I talk to recruiters. Andin my own experience, you get to
a company. I remember one of thelast companies I was in
leadership of recruiting, youget in, and it doesn't matter
how much you ask in aninterview. When you get there
the first day, you see, wow.
You guys have a ton of systemsand some overlap with each
other. It's like differentpeople within HR are like, oh, I
(11:46):
need this. I need this. I needthis. And we don't necessarily
know, like, oh, we could havethis tool doing this thing, and
we don't need all of thesedifferent tools.
Lisa Skinner Källström (11:57):
No. I agree. So we should be better
become more, like, knowledgeableas buyers as well, I think, will
help us help us become morestrategic as well.
Rhona Pierce (12:06):
Yes. If we fast forward five years now, let's
talk about future, which issomething we like to talk about
on this podcast. Where do yousee hiring going in the next
five years?
Lisa Skinner Källström: Interesting. So transform 2030. (12:18):
undefined
What are we doing then? Goodquestion. But I think, again, a
lot of maybe the functionalitythat are new now is something
that we're gonna just take forfor granted.
It would be really interestingto see, like, the DNI
perspective as well inrecruiting. Is that something
that we have solved? Again, isthat something now that we don't
(12:39):
have to think about? Because ifwe like, in the job ads and so
on, are the bias are we able toremove any bias from the
process, for example? So that'ssomething we've been talking
about as well, I think, for solong.
So I I hope that that'ssomething that we can just make
sure that we just automaticallyhave a really not friendly
process, but an inclusiveprocess.
Rhona Pierce (12:58):
Yeah. I think we've been talking about it for
a long time, but and I agreewith you. I think we kind of,
like, move on to the next thing,but we need to get to a point
where, just like you weresaying, AI is gonna be in in a
future, something where you justit's a given. It's like, you no
one talks about, like, oh, ourour software works on the
Internet. Well, of course itdoes.
It's like, why would it not? Sowe
Lisa Skinner Källström (13:18):
have it in an app.
Rhona Pierce (13:19):
Yeah. Exactly. We we have to get there with AI,
but there's also very importantthings that we skipped over, I
think, that we should really getback to because especially as we
integrate newer technologieslike AI and things like that,
DEI is still an issue that we'rethe ones teaching AI what to do.
So if we haven't evolved that,we need to that needs to get
(13:41):
into something that's a given,like, yeah. Why are we even
talking about DEI?
That's how we do it type ofthing.
Lisa Skinner Källström (13:46):
No. I think so. And then something as
well. I mean, I'm I'm based inin in Sweden, and, of course,
depending on the job market andso on. But when there is a lot
of availability on the market, Ithink that the candidate
experience, it's also somethingwe've talked about for a long
time.
But again, I'm amazed. Like,when when we hear candidate
stories and and, like, people inthe network and so on where
they've been, like, ghosted bycompanies and so on, I think at
(14:07):
some point, that also needs tostop. And then, again, finding
different functionalities in thesystem where it should be, like,
impossible for you not to getback to a candidate and and and
not give feedback and and so on.So I would like to see that's
something I would like to see inthe future as well. Like, an
inclusive and and a really goodcandidate experience.
Rhona Pierce (14:26):
That would be amazing. It's like it's so cool
because if you've managedrecruiting teams, I'm sure you
have as I have, you hear, Ididn't mean to ghost this
person. They just got lost inthe ATS. I would love, like,
wish list item where it's likeso it's impossible to get lost
in the ATS where it's like,okay, ATS is telling you, you
(14:47):
have ghosted this candidate. Youhave not replied to this
candidate.
Do something. At that point,it's a human choice and not like
it got lost, but it does happen.It it works. So, yeah, I like
that future prediction. Exactly.
So finally, where can peoplelearn more about team Taylor and
just what you you guys aredoing?
Lisa Skinner Källström (15:07):
I guess follow us on on LinkedIn. We are
a global company. So if youfollow us, I mean, you will get
a lot of different content fromall of our different sort of
regions because there's a lotgoing on. And, I mean, speaking
of different sort of trends andand so on, I guess there's
always kind of similarchallenges, but there are also a
lot of, like, localopportunities and and local
(15:28):
topics. Like in The EU, forexample, in in Europe, we're
gonna have, like, this big paytransparency directive, which,
of course, is very, very closeto hiring.
So LinkedIn, you will get a lotof, like, different local
flavors of how Tin Tailor isworking with the market. We also
have a podcast, something tomention, where we invite
different guests and and reallysort of get nerdy on different
(15:52):
parts of the hiring process,talk only about sourcing or only
about interview questions so on.So, yeah, I think so. And then
it's possible if you'reinterested as a candidate, we
have a functionality where youcan connect with us if there's a
job, if you're looking for a newjob or if you're just interested
to see what's going on in thecompany, but there's not a
(16:13):
position that suits at themoment, then you can connect,
and then you will get notifiedif anything sort of comes up. So
a lot of different ways, I wouldsay.
Rhona Pierce (16:21):
Yeah. Yeah. And I know I said it was the last
question, but
Lisa Skinner Källström (16:25):
I Yes. Go ahead.
Rhona Pierce (16:26):
Thought of of a different one. What is one
recruitment trend that you wantto go away? Like, we need to
stop this right now. Wow.
Lisa Skinner Källström (16:35):
That's a hard question. But could it be
just the AI thing just talkingabout, like because it is I
mean, it's been again, it feelslike these topics when they when
we start talking about it in ourcommunity, it just becomes I
mean, of course, because we weneed to discuss it because it's
new and and and so on. Butthat's yeah. That's the thing. I
would like us to stop what HRtalks about, like AI and us
(16:58):
trying to be experts at it.
I would like to see more becauseI don't think AI should go away,
but maybe more that we invite,like, the technology side and
and really make sure that wework together. Because
sometimes, I guess, when we'retalking about it, trying to
explain and understand and andso on, we should invite the
other side or or people from thetech side to make sure that we
(17:20):
can work together and and maybefor us to give sort of input as
well on how it works for for us.
Rhona Pierce (17:25):
That's a really good approach because I think
what we've been doing, and Imyself am guilty of this.
Lisa Skinner Källström (17:32):
Me too.
Rhona Pierce (17:32):
I think because I come from a technical
background, I'm talking aboutbecause I'm a software engineer
by trade.
Lisa Skinner Källström (17:37):
Oh, nice.
Rhona Pierce (17:38):
So I talk about AI and stuff, and I get excited on
that side. But I have to, like,sit in my in my HR side and my
TA side and be like, no. We arenot the people that are, like,
all of a sudden now in charge oftechnology. And it's a big like,
some places I mean, I saw anarticle recently where now
they're trying they're sayingsome companies, the CHRO is
(17:59):
gonna be in charge CHRO AI incharge of AI. And it's like, are
we really the best suited to bein charge of technology, or
should we be doing what we dobest, which is bring the humans
together, bring the right peoplein the room to have the
conversations?
And, we're their guiding. We'rewe're part we're at the table.
I'm not saying we shouldn't beat that AI table. I don't think
(18:22):
we should be waiting it.
Lisa Skinner Källström (18:23):
No. No. And I mean, think it's important
that we of course, we need tounderstand and and we need to
adopt and we need to be curiousand and brave to try it. But,
again, I think sometimes I getfed up when I hear myself trying
to explain to others or or it'sjust like a panel of HR people
explaining AI. Then, I mean, ofcourse, you have the background,
you have a more legit speakerabout it.
(18:44):
But I think, I mean, bringingthe right expertise as well
because that will help us bemore educated as well.
Rhona Pierce (18:50):
And that's really our strength. We are the people
people. Exactly. We bring thepeople into the company. We keep
the people in the company and wemake sure their experiences.
So like, let's lean on ourstrength and let the experts
that we've spent so much timebringing in help us. Like, let's
partner. So yeah. So this hasbeen a lovely conversation.
Thank you so much for joining us
Lisa Skinner Källström (19:10):
on the pod It's really great. Thank you
so much for having me. Thanks.
Rhona Pierce (19:13):
Thanks to Lisa for being on the show. This is the
final episode of Throw Out thePlaybook as you know it. But
don't worry, we're not goinganywhere. The show is evolving.
The next chapter of the show iscalled Workfluencer, and it's
about something bigger.
It's about how professionals areusing their voice to lead,
(19:35):
disrupt, and reshape work fromthe inside. More on that very
soon. If this episode sparkednew ideas or challenged how you
think about HR tech, share itwith a colleague, leave a
review, and subscribe for moreconversations like this. Thanks
for listening, and I'll chatwith you next week.
HR tech should simplify your process, not add
to the chaos. But that onlyhappens when you start with
strategy, not just with thesoftware.
Lisa Skinner Källström (00:09):
But I think it's important to take a
step back and think, are weready? What are we trying to
solve? And are the users, is ourtarget group, are they ready?
Rhona Pierce (00:17):
That's Lisa Skinner, Team Taylor's CHRO. In
this episode that we recordedlive at Transform twenty twenty
five, we dig into how HR and TAleaders can make smarter, more
human centered decisions abouttechnology. Lisa shares how her
team uses Team Taylor's owntools, the biggest mistakes she
(00:38):
sees companies make whenadopting new tech, and her
vision for a more inclusive,streamlined, and people first
hiring experience. If you'renavigating change, championing
candidate experience, or simplytrying to make hiring less
chaotic and more human, thisone's for you.
So I'm so excited to be here with you, Lisa,
(01:00):
today. Thank you so much forbeing on the show.
Lisa Skinner Källström (01:02):
Thanks for having me. So exciting.
Rhona Pierce (01:04):
So before we dive in to talking about the future
of work, can you tell us alittle about your role as a CHRO
in Team Taylor?
Lisa Skinner Källström: Absolutely. So I've been with (01:10):
undefined
the company for nearly threeyears and an amazing journey.
When I joined, we were roughly200 people, and now we are about
500. So me and the team, we arebased in Stockholm and
supporting all of our locationsacross the globe and may doing
our best in setting upeverything from, like,
(01:31):
compliance, but, of course,focusing on employee engagement
and making sure that everyone isset up for success in order to
be the best they can at work.
Rhona Pierce (01:40):
Must be interesting to be a CHRO for a
HR tech company that's, like,helping other companies in their
hiring and all of that they do.Do you guys use your own tools
and the processes that yourecommend to your clients?
Lisa Skinner Källström (01:53):
Yes. Definitely. It is really, really
exciting and challenging aswell. And I must say coming into
the space, I worked with HR fora few years, but in other
industries. But it's also reallycool because there's such an
interest from our teams as wellsince they're talking so much to
other well, I mean, all of ourcustomers are in nature today.
So it's a lot of of questionsfrom our teams. They're really
(02:15):
curious about what we're doinginternally. And, of course,
using our own our own products.And it also puts, I guess,
higher demands on ourselvesbecause we want to make sure
that we use it in the bestpossible way and know all the
features and then, of course,work really close to our product
team. So when there are newfeatures, there's always
trainings for us internally, ofcourse, for our systems, but
(02:37):
also for us.
So to make sure that we reallyuse it at the best best way.
Rhona Pierce (02:41):
Cool. So recruitment technology and just
HR tech in general is evolvingreally fast. What are some of
the biggest shifts that youthink we're gonna be seeing in
the next few years?
Lisa Skinner Källström (02:53):
Of course, AI. Cannot not mention
AI. So I think that's bigfunctionality, but also more, I
think, user friendly toolsbecause I think also with, like,
new generations and I think HRbecoming more tech adopters as
well, that there are also morerequirements. Think back in the
days, I mean, all the systemsI've used, at times, you
(03:17):
couldn't be picky because youjust had a system and then you
just had to work with itregardless of how many clicks it
takes you to to hire acandidate. So I think, like,
user friendliness and then, ofcourse, using AI as part of
something which I think we willtake for granted.
I know when I talk to ourproduct team sometimes and ask
them about, like, the future andso on, I think now there's so
(03:37):
much focus because AI is stillquite new. But I know that
they've said to me as well,like, in a few years, no one
will even think about it becauseeveryone's just gonna take it
for granted that, of course,there's gonna be, like, AI built
in.
Rhona Pierce (03:48):
Yeah. And everyone's talking about AI now,
but there's so many otherthings. And what I like about
team Taylor is, like, you're notonly talking about AI. You're
definitely. But you're stilltalking about automation.
You're still talking aboutanalytics and things that are
important. Yes. AI is important.Is there anything that new or
anything coming in that area?Are you guys still innovating in
(04:08):
those areas as well?
Lisa Skinner Källström (04:09):
No. But definitely and I think, I mean,
all of these small features thatalso focus a lot on, like,
candidate experience and andjust, I guess, seamlessly on,
like, the back end where we areinternally doing our our hiring
with all these, like, smalltweaks and and and so on, which
are, again, enhancing thecandidate experience. A lot of
triggers that make sure that youthat the system works for you.
(04:33):
Like, if a candidate has been ina one stage for too long, then
the triggers can help you aswell make sure that they move
along in the system. So I thinkthings like that that might not
be visible externally, but thatreally help, again, focus on the
candidate.
So candidate and user, I think,are
Rhona Pierce (04:50):
Yeah. Still at the forefront of what you guys are
doing. So with AI playing alarger role in hiring, there's
this debate about how do webalance that with a human touch.
Because, yeah, everyone's sayingAI is gonna replace recruiters.
It's gonna replace everyone.
But we know that's not true. Atleast that's what I believe. How
(05:11):
do you balance, like, that as anHR tech company and just you in
general as you're managing yourteams?
Lisa Skinner Källström (05:18):
No. But I think, I mean, definitely,
it's an important question aswell. And I think this is one of
the biggest changes that's beenfor us working in recruiting and
and HR. So I can also understandthat it is scary and that some
people feel like, okay. If Istart using AI too much, am I
gonna be made redundant becausethen someone else can do my job?
So I can understand that there'sa fear of, like, using the
(05:39):
technology and fear of beingreplaced by AI. But the way I I
see it, I mean, AI should not beyour decision maker. That's
like, let's put that let'sdecide that. But then if you can
use AI to improve your yourprocess for example, there's
this amazing functionality inTintiller where you can have
(06:02):
your video interviewstranscribed by AI. And, I mean,
I've been doing recruiting since02/2001 when I started as a
researcher.
And, I mean, anyone who's donerecruiting, regardless if it's
that many years or or less, justthat possibility, not having to
take notes.
Rhona Pierce (06:19):
Exactly.
Lisa Skinner Källström (06:19):
Just being able to listen and be
present in an interview. I mean,just that thing is is just
amazing. So I try to think aboutAI. Okay. But how can I and the
team and any recruiter, what canI do with the time that AI
saves?
And in that case, if you'retalking about an interview, then
it's giving another level ofexperience to the candidate
because you're fully present.But then in other
(06:41):
functionalities like helping yousummarize a series or or helping
suggesting suitable candidatesor helping you write the job ad,
it doesn't mean that you justpost a job ad without sort of
reflecting. But it's more likeit's saving you time to do spend
your time doing other types ofwork, like engaging with hiring
(07:03):
managers, maybe coaching them ondifferent things or or or so on.
So I see it more as a tool forrecruiters to do other types of
work, if that makes sense.
Rhona Pierce (07:13):
Yeah. And it's a lot of the conversations that
I've been having today. As I'vebeen, like, talking to everyone
here on the floor at Transform,I've been asking them, and
people have said what you said.Like, AI for me is not a
decision maker, but it's I'mseeing it as I can save time
with this and all the thingsthat we've always wanted to do
as recruiters because we alwayshave all of these ideas of what
(07:34):
we need to do and how to improveour process, but there was no
time. Things like you mentioned,having to, like, remember an
interview because how do youstay engaged with someone on a
video interview and take notesand all of that?
Now you don't have to worry. Forme, that was a game changer when
I started using tools like thatbecause it's like, oh, I can
focus on the person. I can focuson the questions. Right. The
(07:57):
time that it saves me becausenow after an interview, I'm not
scrambling to write downeverything to remember to k.
Makes a few. I can use it formore strategic type
Lisa Skinner Källström (08:05):
of things.
Rhona Pierce (08:05):
So that that's been the consensus here. And I
love that because if you lookonline, you'll see recruiters
are going away, and recruitersare saying, maybe some of our
tasks are going away, but we'restay the companies that really
believe in doing this the rightway, we're staying around. We're
just doing the strategic workthat we've always wanted to
Lisa Skinner Källström (08:25):
do. No. I agree. And, I mean, you
mentioned the analytics functionas well, just being able to dive
into that and just having thattype of conversation as well
based on on data instead ofdoing your notes or so on. So
there's a lot of opportunity, Ithink.
But then, of course, it shouldbe you should use it with with
the care and respect and reallyunderstand how to use it, of
course.
Rhona Pierce (08:44):
So what do you think companies get wrong when
adopting new HR tech?
Lisa Skinner Källström (08:51):
Maybe not having thought about the
purpose. Why do we want to getinto, like, HR tech? Sometimes
it's my experience is like,okay. We we want to because we
have to, and maybe not havingtaken time identifying, okay,
but what area? Because, I mean,there if you just look at the
whole, like, employee lifecycle, you can there's systems
(09:12):
for, like, every part.
And maybe thinking about, okay,but where are we ready to
implement? Is it the initial? Isit the onboarding, preboarding?
Is it the hiring? Is itengagement?
What what are we trying tosolve? So maybe going back to
the drawing board and thinkingagain, what is the major
problem? What is our main task?What problem do we need to
solve? So I think that's onething, but then also
(09:33):
understanding the readiness
Rhona Pierce (09:36):
Yeah.
Lisa Skinner Källström (09:36):
In the company. And, again, it might be
if it's only HR using the tool,then maybe it's one thing, but
also trying to think about,okay, but are the users if
you're gonna engage hiringmanagers or any type of manager,
are they ready? Is it a goodtime in the year for them also
to to learn something new andand adopt this tool? Because I
think sometimes we in HR, we'reso good at just, like, trying to
(09:59):
solve our own challenges, and wewant to do a project and so on.
But I think it's important totake a step back and think, are
are we ready?
What are we yeah. Again, whatare we trying to solve here? And
is our are the users is ourtarget group, are they ready?
Rhona Pierce (10:12):
That's very important because it's like very
few of the softwares that we usein HR are only for us. Exactly.
Most of them, we interface withcandidates, with hiring
managers, with otherdepartments. So it's very
important to yeah. Do we knowwhat we're doing and why we're
doing this, why we're gettingthis?
And is everyone else ready forit? Because it can only be you.
(10:36):
And I think that's somethingthat is missed a lot of times,
especially like as you'reimplementing the software, it's
on you to bring in the peoplethat need to be part of the
implementation.
Lisa Skinner Källström (10:48):
Exactly.
Rhona Pierce (10:48):
Like your HR tech vendor can give you suggestions,
but they don't know yourcompany. So it's on you to have
that plan before you even engagethem in an implementation. No,
Lisa Skinner Källström (10:58):
I agree. And also thinking about like,
okay, the rest of the techstack, because I think in HR, I
mean, we maybe just want to beat the forefront and say like,
hey, we found this tool, butalso think about engage with IT
as well and say, hey. We foundthis tool. Is it something that
would work for us? What do wewant to integrate it with?
If we're using Slack or anyother type of tool, will this
(11:18):
work? So it's not like ending upbuying 10 different systems, I
guess. So that's important.
Rhona Pierce (11:23):
Which is what happens a lot. And I I hear it a
lot as I talk to recruiters. Andin my own experience, you get to
a company. I remember one of thelast companies I was in
leadership of recruiting, youget in, and it doesn't matter
how much you ask in aninterview. When you get there
the first day, you see, wow.
You guys have a ton of systemsand some overlap with each
other. It's like differentpeople within HR are like, oh, I
(11:46):
need this. I need this. I needthis. And we don't necessarily
know, like, oh, we could havethis tool doing this thing, and
we don't need all of thesedifferent tools.
Lisa Skinner Källström (11:57):
No. I agree. So we should be better
become more, like, knowledgeableas buyers as well, I think, will
help us help us become morestrategic as well.
Rhona Pierce (12:06):
Yes. If we fast forward five years now, let's
talk about future, which issomething we like to talk about
on this podcast. Where do yousee hiring going in the next
five years?
Lisa Skinner Källström: Interesting. So transform 2030. (12:18):
undefined
What are we doing then? Goodquestion. But I think, again, a
lot of maybe the functionalitythat are new now is something
that we're gonna just take forfor granted.
It would be really interestingto see, like, the DNI
perspective as well inrecruiting. Is that something
that we have solved? Again, isthat something now that we don't
(12:39):
have to think about? Because ifwe like, in the job ads and so
on, are the bias are we able toremove any bias from the
process, for example? So that'ssomething we've been talking
about as well, I think, for solong.
So I I hope that that'ssomething that we can just make
sure that we just automaticallyhave a really not friendly
process, but an inclusiveprocess.
Rhona Pierce (12:58):
Yeah. I think we've been talking about it for
a long time, but and I agreewith you. I think we kind of,
like, move on to the next thing,but we need to get to a point
where, just like you weresaying, AI is gonna be in in a
future, something where you justit's a given. It's like, you no
one talks about, like, oh, ourour software works on the
Internet. Well, of course itdoes.
It's like, why would it not? Sowe
Lisa Skinner Källström (13:18):
have it in an app.
Rhona Pierce (13:19):
Yeah. Exactly. We we have to get there with AI,
but there's also very importantthings that we skipped over, I
think, that we should really getback to because especially as we
integrate newer technologieslike AI and things like that,
DEI is still an issue that we'rethe ones teaching AI what to do.
So if we haven't evolved that,we need to that needs to get
(13:41):
into something that's a given,like, yeah. Why are we even
talking about DEI?
That's how we do it type ofthing.
Lisa Skinner Källström (13:46):
No. I think so. And then something as
well. I mean, I'm I'm based inin in Sweden, and, of course,
depending on the job market andso on. But when there is a lot
of availability on the market, Ithink that the candidate
experience, it's also somethingwe've talked about for a long
time.
But again, I'm amazed. Like,when when we hear candidate
stories and and, like, people inthe network and so on where
they've been, like, ghosted bycompanies and so on, I think at
(14:07):
some point, that also needs tostop. And then, again, finding
different functionalities in thesystem where it should be, like,
impossible for you not to getback to a candidate and and and
not give feedback and and so on.So I would like to see that's
something I would like to see inthe future as well. Like, an
inclusive and and a really goodcandidate experience.
Rhona Pierce (14:26):
That would be amazing. It's like it's so cool
because if you've managedrecruiting teams, I'm sure you
have as I have, you hear, Ididn't mean to ghost this
person. They just got lost inthe ATS. I would love, like,
wish list item where it's likeso it's impossible to get lost
in the ATS where it's like,okay, ATS is telling you, you
(14:47):
have ghosted this candidate. Youhave not replied to this
candidate.
Do something. At that point,it's a human choice and not like
it got lost, but it does happen.It it works. So, yeah, I like
that future prediction. Exactly.
So finally, where can peoplelearn more about team Taylor and
just what you you guys aredoing?
Lisa Skinner Källström (15:07):
I guess follow us on on LinkedIn. We are
a global company. So if youfollow us, I mean, you will get
a lot of different content fromall of our different sort of
regions because there's a lotgoing on. And, I mean, speaking
of different sort of trends andand so on, I guess there's
always kind of similarchallenges, but there are also a
lot of, like, localopportunities and and local
(15:28):
topics. Like in The EU, forexample, in in Europe, we're
gonna have, like, this big paytransparency directive, which,
of course, is very, very closeto hiring.
So LinkedIn, you will get a lotof, like, different local
flavors of how Tin Tailor isworking with the market. We also
have a podcast, something tomention, where we invite
different guests and and reallysort of get nerdy on different
(15:52):
parts of the hiring process,talk only about sourcing or only
about interview questions so on.So, yeah, I think so. And then
it's possible if you'reinterested as a candidate, we
have a functionality where youcan connect with us if there's a
job, if you're looking for a newjob or if you're just interested
to see what's going on in thecompany, but there's not a
(16:13):
position that suits at themoment, then you can connect,
and then you will get notifiedif anything sort of comes up. So
a lot of different ways, I wouldsay.
Rhona Pierce (16:21):
Yeah. Yeah. And I know I said it was the last
question, but
Lisa Skinner Källström (16:25):
I Yes. Go ahead.
Rhona Pierce (16:26):
Thought of of a different one. What is one
recruitment trend that you wantto go away? Like, we need to
stop this right now. Wow.
Lisa Skinner Källström (16:35):
That's a hard question. But could it be
just the AI thing just talkingabout, like because it is I
mean, it's been again, it feelslike these topics when they when
we start talking about it in ourcommunity, it just becomes I
mean, of course, because we weneed to discuss it because it's
new and and and so on. Butthat's yeah. That's the thing. I
would like us to stop what HRtalks about, like AI and us
(16:58):
trying to be experts at it.
I would like to see more becauseI don't think AI should go away,
but maybe more that we invite,like, the technology side and
and really make sure that wework together. Because
sometimes, I guess, when we'retalking about it, trying to
explain and understand and andso on, we should invite the
other side or or people from thetech side to make sure that we
(17:20):
can work together and and maybefor us to give sort of input as
well on how it works for for us.
Rhona Pierce (17:25):
That's a really good approach because I think
what we've been doing, and Imyself am guilty of this.
Lisa Skinner Källström (17:32):
Me too.
Rhona Pierce (17:32):
I think because I come from a technical
background, I'm talking aboutbecause I'm a software engineer
by trade.
Lisa Skinner Källström (17:37):
Oh, nice.
Rhona Pierce (17:38):
So I talk about AI and stuff, and I get excited on
that side. But I have to, like,sit in my in my HR side and my
TA side and be like, no. We arenot the people that are, like,
all of a sudden now in charge oftechnology. And it's a big like,
some places I mean, I saw anarticle recently where now
they're trying they're sayingsome companies, the CHRO is
(17:59):
gonna be in charge CHRO AI incharge of AI. And it's like, are
we really the best suited to bein charge of technology, or
should we be doing what we dobest, which is bring the humans
together, bring the right peoplein the room to have the
conversations?
And, we're their guiding. We'rewe're part we're at the table.
I'm not saying we shouldn't beat that AI table. I don't think
(18:22):
we should be waiting it.
Lisa Skinner Källström (18:23):
No. No. And I mean, think it's important
that we of course, we need tounderstand and and we need to
adopt and we need to be curiousand and brave to try it. But,
again, I think sometimes I getfed up when I hear myself trying
to explain to others or or it'sjust like a panel of HR people
explaining AI. Then, I mean, ofcourse, you have the background,
you have a more legit speakerabout it.
(18:44):
But I think, I mean, bringingthe right expertise as well
because that will help us bemore educated as well.
Rhona Pierce (18:50):
And that's really our strength. We are the people
people. Exactly. We bring thepeople into the company. We keep
the people in the company and wemake sure their experiences.
So like, let's lean on ourstrength and let the experts
that we've spent so much timebringing in help us. Like, let's
partner. So yeah. So this hasbeen a lovely conversation.
Thank you so much for joining us
Lisa Skinner Källström (19:10):
on the pod It's really great. Thank you
so much for having me. Thanks.
Rhona Pierce (19:13):
Thanks to Lisa for being on the show. This is the
final episode of Throw Out thePlaybook as you know it. But
don't worry, we're not goinganywhere. The show is evolving.
The next chapter of the show iscalled Workfluencer, and it's
about something bigger.
It's about how professionals areusing their voice to lead,
(19:35):
disrupt, and reshape work fromthe inside. More on that very
soon. If this episode sparkednew ideas or challenged how you
think about HR tech, share itwith a colleague, leave a
review, and subscribe for moreconversations like this. Thanks
for listening, and I'll chatwith you next week.
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