June 11, 2024 • 30 mins
In this episode, Rhona sits down with Tara Turk-Haynes, a DEI expert and Talent Acquisition leader, for a candid conversation about what it really takes to make diversity hiring work. They discuss the importance of data, the role of ERGs, and the impact of societal and political factors on DEI efforts.
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//TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 INTRODUCTION
02:16 - Tara's Journey into DEI Work
04:48 - Setting Clear Diversity Hiring Goals and Metrics
07:37 - Measuring the Success of Diversity Hiring Efforts
10:21 - Involving ERGs in the Hiring Process
16:15 - The Evolution of Tara's Thinking on Diversity Hiring
21:51 - The Skills-Based Nature of Recruiting and DEI
22:08 - Predictions for Diversity Hiring in 2024
26:17 - The Importance of Retention and Inclusion
RECOMMENDED NEXT EPISODE
→ #6: Inclusive Hiring Starts with Effective Intake Calls with Kat Kibben
****
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tara Turk-Haynes (00:00):
We're the subject matter experts. We are
the ones who do this on aregular basis. We know what
these candidates are saying,feeling, thinking, etcetera.
Funnel that through and tellthat story whether people are
asking for it or not because Iwould guarantee you most
companies don't even know whatthey're looking for when they
talk about diversity hiring. Ijust don't think they
Rhona Pierce (00:18):
know what that means. Welcome to throw out the
playbook, the podcast forrecruiters tired of hearing that
hiring is broken and ready to dosomething about it. I'm your
host, Rona Pierce. In today'sepisode, we're getting real
about the truth behind diversityhiring with Tara Turc Haines, an
executive leader with over 18years of experience in talent
(00:38):
acquisition. Tara is the founderand CEO of Equity Activations
where she partners withorganizations to integrate
diversity, equity, and inclusioninto their operations by
activating talent acquisitionprocesses, learning and
development programs, andemployee engagement initiatives
that drive measurable outcomes.
Towards the end of 2023, I hadthe opportunity to sit down with
(01:00):
Tara for a candid in-depthconversation about what it
really takes to make diversityhiring work. From her own
journey into DEI work to thecritical role of ERGs, data
driven strategies, and theimportance of retention, Tara
doesn't hold back. While you mayhave caught part of our
conversation on my YouTubechannel earlier this year,
(01:22):
today, I'm sharing the fullunfiltered discussion. Grab a
notebook because you're gonnawanna take notes. Let's dive in
as Tara shares how her earlyexperiences as a job seeker
ignited her passion for DEI.
Tara Turk-Haynes (01:35):
So given the nature of my background, like,
being a black woman and applyingfor jobs when I wasn't even in
talent yet, like, you know, Iwas a playwright. I needed a day
job to feed myself. I don'tbelieve in being a starving
artist because nobody should bestarving for anything. And so
whenever I was applying forroles, it was always, like, this
(01:56):
big to do with how I presentedmyself. Like, I had dreadlocks
at the time or a nose ring orI'm, like, just, like, visibly
black.
And so encountering people inthe talent space who weren't or
people who were trying toconform to this idea of
(02:17):
professionalism that was alwaysexclusive and excluded people
always bothered me. And so itwasn't until I was the EA to
our, CEO at Ticketmaster and ourchief people officer, who is
Beverly Carmichael, black woman.Like, Beverly was amazing, and I
(02:38):
had never encountered someonewith that high of a title in HR
who was black. Like, I justnever did. It never even
occurred to me.
You know? Like, there would besomeone in that space. And she
basically was like, I thinkyou'd be really good at talent
acquisition because she justlike, I think you have just,
like, a natural tact forunderstanding people in a way
(03:00):
that it's really helpful. Andso, I started off as a
coordinator in talentacquisition. So I feel like DEI
was always important to mebefore I even knew, like, what
it was.
And then the idea ofexperiencing frontline talent,
applying as a low level, like,admin person and what that
(03:20):
looked like, I was always I waslike, I never want anybody to go
through this. This isridiculous. Like, you should
never feel less than yourselftrying to feed yourself. Like,
that just doesn't even make anysense. So passionate about that,
and that's just kind of theworlds collided, you know, when
the role, of both of them cameup and I was able to apply for
(03:41):
it and get it.
Rhona Pierce (03:42):
Amazing. So I've been talking to a lot of people
in my audience just in the DMs,just starting conversations. It
seems like companies are settingup recruiting teams for failure
with unrealistic expectations asfar as what DEI. How do we
approach diversity hiring in away that ensures success for
(04:06):
everyone involved?
Tara Turk-Haynes (04:07):
So I think it goes back to your personal why
as a recruiter. Right? Like,what's your personal mission?
Like, why are you recruiting?And then why is the company
looking for any of thesediversity metrics at all?
Like, what are you doing withall of that? I feel like if
there's no cohesive idea aboutwhat that's like, then, yes,
there's going to be failure,because you're not on the same
(04:29):
page. You don't know what you'redoing with that data. Candidates
can sense when you don't knowwhat you're when you're asking
them those voluntary in thosevoluntary questions and you just
don't do anything with what it'sthe why. Right?
But the more, I think aboutthese things, the more I feel
like it should just be embeddedinto the job that you do from a
day to day perspective. And andone example of that for me is,
(04:53):
like, okay, so a lot of peopleuse the metric time to time to
fill. You and I both know wehate that metric, but whatever.
It's, like, standard for somepeople. Right?
Why is the diversity of yourpipeline and the stages that
they're going through notstandard as well? Right? So,
like, we are cherry picking whatDEI means for some, and then
(05:17):
doing business as usual forothers, and I think it all
should be business as usual. Soif you're if you're just a
recruiter, you're like, this is,you know, this is what I come
with. I come with these kind ofstats.
Even if you didn't ask for whatthis pipeline looks like from a
diversity perspective or ademographic perspective, each
state, I'm still gonna give itto you so that you understand
(05:37):
where you are. So I think it'sit's it's a little bit also,
like, you know, don't askpermission. Just make it part of
what you do. And, like, if theydon't do anything with it, it's
not because you didn't give itto them. So I think we need to
normalize this kind of behaviora lot more as recruiters than
just asking the company, youknow, what do they want from us
(05:58):
from a demographic perspective,because we're the subject matter
experts.
We are the ones who do this on aregular basis. We know what
these candidates are saying,feeling, thinking, etcetera.
Funnel that through and tellthat story whether people are
asking for it or not, because Iwould guarantee you most
companies don't even know whatthey're looking for when they
talk about diversity hiring. Ijust don't think they know what
that means.
Rhona Pierce (06:19):
True. And you mentioned a really great point,
and it's something that I reallylearned actually working with
you. It really opened my eyes. Alot of companies are very
focused on the top of funnelwhen it comes to DEI. Yes.
We have these many applicants.We're on this many diverse job
boards. Yeah. But lookingthrough the entire funnel and
(06:40):
seeing that is is so soimportant. What have you found
are the most realistic wayscompanies can measure the
success of their diversityhiring efforts?
Tara Turk-Haynes (06:56):
So I think if you start looking at where
candidates from a differentspecific demographics are
falling off in your in yourstages, I think that is the
clearest indicator of all. So,like, that's just data. You
can't even argue with that data.So if you're talking about
number of applicants, cool.Fine.
Number of applicants that getpast the recruiter phone screen,
interesting. Right? And then weget to the hiring manager still
(07:19):
falling off. You have to be ableto understand what that data is
telling you in terms of story.Your success is not how many
you've hired.
It's how many are able to havean equitable experience through
your stages and then how manystay. So, like, we're jumping
over. I think we're pinpointingone success metrics of, like,
(07:42):
how many people we've hired fromspecific demographics versus how
many people were able to getthrough that pipeline equitably,
and then what is our retentionlook like, you know, 1, 2 years
down the line. I hear a lot ofpeople talking about, like,
trying to calculate miss hires.Right?
And I feel like you gotta workbackwards. Right? Like, what are
(08:02):
your exit surveys saying? Whatare your onboarding surveys
saying? Like, a lot of that datacomes into what the success of
your your diversity hire reallylooks like.
And you have to define whatdiversity hiring means for you,
because each company, it's gonnabe different. Like, every every
company I've been at has had anexcuse about why why one process
(08:23):
has to be the shortcut. We needthis person yesterday. This is a
critical hire. Normally, wewould do it this way, but we're
not gonna do it this way becausex y z.
All of those are fightingagainst your efforts when you
talk about your commitment todiversity and inclusion in terms
of your talent acquisitionprocess. If you're making an
excuse here, you're always gonnamake an excuse, and then your
(08:45):
your your data is gonna sufferbecause that's still data.
Right? You don't exclude thatdata from the rest of it.
Rhona Pierce (08:52):
Yes. Data and data is my favorite thing.
Tara Turk-Haynes (08:56):
I know. I know. I learned so much from you
in terms of data. I'm startingto I learned to love it, and
then I under help you've helpedme tell the story, you know, in
a better way in terms of how youthink about it and how you
organize it. So I'm eternallygrateful to you for that because
it's it always makes animpression for me.
Rhona Pierce (09:14):
You just can't argue with data. It's it's you
just can't argue with There's noway. I know. One of the things
that I really like, one of yourapproaches to DEI and just
diversity hiring is includingERGs in the process. I think I
have not seen many companies dothat, and I think it's really
(09:37):
something that people shouldlook into.
So how do you thinking from yourexperience that ERGs contribute
to the success of diversityhiring, and what role should
they play in the overallstrategy?
Tara Turk-Haynes (09:51):
It's so it's it's so for me, you know, DEI is
all about connecting the dotswithin the organization. I don't
think it's just one departmentand this department and that. It
literally is a holistic story,and you can't really you know, I
I see a lot of companies saying,like, well, we need, you know,
diverse hiring panel. But if youonly have, you know, one Asian
(10:17):
American woman and she works inaccounting, but this is your
creative director role and theydon't ever work together, why do
you have her on the panel? Youknow what I'm saying?
Like, that's just tokenism to mein my experience. So building a
community of voices within theorganization, which is what I
think ERG should be. They'rethere to amplify their
(10:40):
experience in the world and telltheir coworkers what that feels
like both in this organization,but also in the world to better
educate people, because we areliterally not smart when it
comes to everybody'sexperiences. We just live in a
bubble of our own. We justexperience life in the in the
world that we kind of create.
You gotta let people in, andthat's why I think it's
(11:02):
important to do that at work.So, I think ERGs are community
based organizations. I don'tthink HR should start them.
That's a hot take for a lot ofpeople, but I just feel like it
works better when someone raisestheir hand and they say, I'm
really passionate about myexperience in the world and in
this place, and I wanna start anorganization so that we could
talk about it so peopleunderstand. And then that
(11:24):
naturally then flows into how ifI hire somebody who's from that,
you know, group, don't you thinkthey wanna hear from the people
in that group within theorganization?
What's your experience like? Youknow, What how can I contribute?
You're doing a lot of employerbranding. You're doing a lot of,
like, onboarding initially.Right?
(11:45):
Because then those people havealready found maybe, like, some
a crumb of a community that theymight be able to attach
themselves to later on. If theyget hired, you get people
excited. So I just feel like,and, you know, also, it goes
without saying, I feel like youshould pay your ERG leaders if
you can. So then that way, theyare performing an additional
(12:07):
service within the organizationthat only strengthens the
organization. So they're theones who are excited about
saying, like, I'd love to be onthis panel.
We'd love to build our communitymore. I really wanna talk to
this candidate. Let them know,you know, what it's really like
and how they can contribute. Itjust is a natural flow, so we're
not, like, siloed within our,you know, or, like, our our own
(12:29):
worlds that we live in, whichis, you know, part of the
problem, I think, as a society.Like, break the walls down.
So, yeah, I just feel like it'sreally important. I just want
you know, ERGs or communitieswho are just trying to amplify
their voices, and if they canbuild them in a talent
acquisition process, thenplease, by all means, do it. You
know? Their their feedback wouldbe so valuable as well. Right?
(12:50):
How do I how do I build thoserising stars when people think
about, you know, great talentwithin the organization, how to
identify that? Somebody who'sgonna go above and beyond,
somebody's gonna participate inbuilding culture, that's your
ERGs right there. Right?
Rhona Pierce (13:06):
Yeah. Have you had or have you encountered any
pushback on this strategy ofincluding ERGs within the hiring
process?
Tara Turk-Haynes (13:17):
Not necessarily. I feel like the
hesitancy I've seen before comesfrom not completely
understanding exactly what Ijust said because it's so brand
new and it's not the norm. But Ialso feel like there's a couple
things that we kind of have tohave in order for this to
happen. You gotta have trustwithin that organization. Right?
(13:37):
So those people need tounderstand that you're asking
them to do this because youtrust them. Right? And if there
is a an apprehension, that's aculture thing within the
organization and not talentacquisition. So if they're a
little hesitant, this is this issome, like, culture building
that you have to do. And when Isay culture, I'm talking about,
like, how you show up within theorganization, psychological
(13:59):
safety.
I'm talking about, like, how youfeel like there's transparency.
Do you feel like you're on thesame page? Like, all of these
different things. And then fromthe hiring team's perspective, I
really feel like we have to do alot of work. You and I have
talked about this a lot,educating hiring teams on how to
actually hire.
Right? Because everybody thinksthey're so good at it, but the
(14:20):
good people are always learninghow to do it better. And so the
talent acquisition team is thereto say, we are on the front
lines of hiring, and here's howyou do it better. So if I tell
you that having an ERG lead isgonna be great for your
interview panel, trust andbelieve that you're I'm helping
you have the best person forthis role show up and have the
(14:43):
opportunity for them tounderstand what it's like within
this within this organizationwithout you having to do that
hiring manager, extra call, youknow, competing offer. Like,
this mitigates some of thatbecause you don't have to sell
the person after you've made theoffer if you're already giving
them, like, a real a reallycomprehensive view within the
(15:04):
organization from a differentperspective outside of the team.
I think that's so valuable.
Rhona Pierce (15:09):
Yes. The changing gears a little bit. Yeah. We
know that a lot has happened inthe past couple of years,
especially this year as far asDEI and diversity hiring and how
companies are prioritizing ordeprioritizing it. How has your
own thinking about diversityhiring changed over time?
Tara Turk-Haynes (15:34):
So loaded. I, I think I'm learning, 1, that we
are not all sharing the samedefinition of what DEI and
diversity means. And so I thinkthe solution to that is to have
really comprehensiveconversations with stakeholders
(15:54):
about what we mean as anorganization when we say
diversity, diversity hiring, andDEI. Let's just be very going
back to your point, data driven,and say, like, what are we
trying to achieve here? What'sour why?
Because before that, I thinkthat, you know, DEI started
becoming a trend for a lot ofcompanies. You know, George
(16:15):
Floyd happens. We're gonna doblack boxes. We're gonna say
this. We're gonna do that.
And I don't think that there wasa road map of, like, what that
actually was going to evolveinto. We weren't all on the same
page about what we were tryingto achieve. When it comes to
hiring, I think that you know?Unfortunately, I've heard this
from some leaders where they'rejust like, I really would like
(16:37):
to hire more from thisparticular group. You know what
I mean?
And, like, that's not DEI. It'sreally about making your process
equitable so that group canparticularly thrive within your
hiring process and not be, youknow, shut out due to all of
these different kinds ofstereotypes, biases, and in
inability to hire equitably.Right? That and not putting the
(17:00):
onus on them, but on us to bebetter in our hiring process. So
I feel like there's aspecificity that we didn't have
a few years ago that we shouldbe driving towards now just like
we talk about any biz strategicbusiness initiative.
If you're saying that you needto have this year over year, you
(17:21):
know, percentage in terms ofyour revenue, like, can we be as
data driven as that? Like, weare not getting enough
candidates from this particulargroup. How can we go back to the
core of it and say, we need toreally reach this community in a
different way? I mean, it it canlook so many different ways from
different organizations andwhat's important to them, but I
think that specificity hasreally started, to kind of land
(17:45):
with me because I thought wewere all, like, many on the same
page, and we're just not Ithought we were just gonna open
the floodgates of, like, okay.We're all ready to just, like,
take our biases off and ourstereotypes, but people aren't
ready for that because I don'teven think a lot of people
understand how they'reperpetuating some of these kind
of, ways that people are notbeing treated equitably.
(18:08):
Like, we're not evenacknowledging our own, you know,
barriers, like, what we'repreventing people from
achieving. And so without that,we're not gonna be successful.
Rhona Pierce (18:18):
I I think that hiring is just, like you said,
something that people justeveryone thinks they know how to
do it. And, when you add on tothat, the fact that the reason
is and I blame us as talentacquisition professionals for
that because we haven't alwayspositioned ourselves as we are
the subject matter experts. Weare the people who know how to
(18:39):
do it. Let's do training. Let'sdrive it.
Same thing's happening with DEI.And then to DEI, you add on to
it the fact that people thinkthat just the notion of them not
being accepting of someone orhaving a bias means that they're
a bad person. Yeah. And theydon't wanna be seen as a bad
person. So there's, like, evenmore resistance to being like,
(19:02):
wait a minute.
Let's look at this. Like, I ambiased. I am doing this. How can
I get better?
Tara Turk-Haynes (19:08):
Yeah. I and I think what I've noticed in the
past, I wanna say even year. Sonow we're looking at, like,
there was an influx of hiring,say, for example, recruiters.
There were, like, a year ago.Right?
We're all we're all at home. TheFAANG companies are hiring so
many people to sometimes nothire. They're just on staff just
in case something happens.Right? I had people reaching out
(19:33):
to me during the pandemic whowere, like, not even in this
field saying that, recruitersreaching out to them to be
recruiters.
Hey. I just I really needbenefits, so I'm just gonna, you
know, apply for this recruitingjob because they told me I could
really do it. And I was like, doyou know what recruiting really
means? Like, do you know this isa skills based job. Right?
(19:53):
DEI is the same thing. There wasan influx of people. I get so
many people who are like, canyou talk to me about how I can
get a career in DEI? First, Isay, you don't want this, but if
you're not gonna listen to me,you know, go to Aubrey
Blanche's, blog she has aboutnot being a DEI person, like,
what it really means datadriven, being really you know,
(20:14):
you gotta learn Excel. Like, youit's not just, like, programs or
clubs and fun people andstories, and I think that's
skills based.
Right? The ability to be able toaudit an organization in terms
of their equitability means thatyou have to have skills to do
that, and so one of the things Ibelieve is that this is why we
(20:34):
have the influx that we haveright now, because there are
just a lot of people who don'tknow exactly what it takes to do
the job effectively in terms ofKPIs and ROIs and all of those
different things. They just arethere because, you know, it's
everyone thinks they can do it.And it's the same with
recruiting, HR. Anything thatpeople have deemed
(20:55):
administrative in the past isskills based, and it takes
someone who is continuouslyworking on that skill to be
better in order for them to beeffective at it.
And I don't think there are alot people who kind of
understand that scope of it.
Rhona Pierce (21:10):
Considering everything that's happening,
it's like I I you can't evenpinpoint to something.
Considering just everythingthat's happening in the world.
Yeah. What cultural shifts doyou predict will have, like, a
significant impact on diversityhiring practices in 2024?
Tara Turk-Haynes (21:27):
It's such a mess right now. I feel like it's
such a mess. And I'm talkingspecifically in the US
politically. The election'sgonna be a lot. Right?
I don't. I I do feel like that'sgonna have a huge factor on the
economy. It always does, butthat also then connects to, you
(21:50):
know, our legislative and ourcourt branches and all of these
all of these things connect,right, in terms of, like, we
didn't know Roe v Wade was gonnabe turned over. Like, the people
were trying to tell a lot of us,and we were just like, that's
impossible. And I think peopleneed to understand the
impossible can happen, and thesecurity that we feel with
(22:11):
protections for people who havenot always had the most
accessible experience within theworkplace are very fragile.
And so it really depends on usvoting. Like, if you are
passionate about, like, yourability to, you know, apply for
a job remotely, hybrid, youwanna see salary, you know,
(22:32):
ranges. All of that is connectedto the politics of this country.
And because that's so mercurialright now, I can't pinpoint
where we're gonna go becauseit's so up in the air. Like, I
never I don't think you know, mydad passed away in 2005, and I
always think, like, when when Ithink of something really
ridiculous, I think of myselfexplaining to him, you know,
(22:54):
hey, dad.
This is so crazy. You wanna hearwhat's wild? Is the Supreme
Court is now doing, like,thinking of doing ethics,
policies for themselves, exceptfor we can't see them. You know
what I mean? Like, what?
It's almost like, dad, you canuse your phone as a GPS because
you couldn't back that. Like, itit's just so wild. So I just
(23:14):
wanna let you know, I think it'sreally important for people to
know it's all connected, whichis why you should be talking
about some of this stuff at workin a way that's very safe and
connected to the business andconnected to people and
productivity. Like, it's notseparate. There's just really
there's a really productive wayto have these conversations, and
(23:35):
it's transparent and supportivewithout it turning into a like,
a a a hot fire, you know, of ofdebate or whatever.
Like, we really kind of justneed to be bracing ourselves for
the impossible happening becauseit could. It's happened already.
Rhona Pierce (23:51):
Very, very good point. And a lot of people tend
to think, well, this is justhappening. This is nothing I can
do to control it. It's just likekind of like, oh, well, what can
we do? Let's complain about itonline.
Where we really need to becomplaining about it is voting.
Because who you vote for, not somuch president, but every single
Tara Turk-Haynes (24:14):
Every single thing. And, like and and people
who kind of shy away from this,your HR team, for example, is
going to have to deal with, youknow, ramifications of benefits
changing, ramifications ofcaregivers, you know, how you
hire in terms of using yourdemographics, what's legal,
(24:35):
what's not legal. All of thesethings come back to us at some
point. It is not over there.It's immediately right here.
And so really kind of makingsure that you are strategically
thinking about all of thosescenarios is important. And
that's why I love CEOs who arealways like, yes. Voting is,
it's a day. It's it's acorporate day. You take that
(24:58):
day.
Go vote. Do whatever because weneed more people to have their
voice so that we can kind ofdeal with these things in real
time, like, regularly. Like, itjust isn't it's normalizing, the
impact that, you know, anythingthat happens in the world is
gonna happen within yourworkplace.
Rhona Pierce (25:15):
Yes. I like that. Anything that happens within the
world is going to happen withinyour workplace. It's true. It's
true.
Last thing. This is a question,has no right answer or anything.
What do you believe to be trueabout diversity hiring, but you
don't have any data to support?It's just a gut feeling. I
Tara Turk-Haynes (25:36):
believe that if you are hiring an only, That
can be an only woman. It can bean only, you know, Latinx woman,
man, nonbinary person,transgender. You are setting
them up for failure if you arenot putting support systems
(25:57):
within place so that there ispsychological safety. There is
space for them to take up. Thereis holding other people
accountable.
All of that work that you did tohire them means nothing if they
leave within 6 months becauseyou didn't do the work to make
that space available for them tosucceed. So spend all your
(26:22):
money, do all your diversityhiring, do your conferences, and
all of these different things,your employer branding. If
they're leaving in 6 months to ayear, you gotta look at you
know, that was a waste. Yougotta look at what's what's
happening there, and I and I seethat more often than not. And I
think about, you know, the 500Fortune 500 CEOs, and there's 2
(26:44):
black women.
Right? There were 3. There's 2.You know, I think 5% are women.
Like, we have a problem, and,like, we're we have a problem in
the workplace, and I think we'renot really kind of understanding
that from a larger perspective.
We're giving excuses as to whyinstead of coming together for
(27:04):
solutions and collaborating onhow best to counteract some of
this stuff and not normalize it.Like, I I I I fundamentally
believe diversity hiring meansall your money in that program
means nothing if you can't doanything when it comes to
retention.
Rhona Pierce (27:19):
I know that's something that we're very on the
same page. I got a lot of hate.I always get it anytime I say
that the most important metricfor talent acquisition people is
retention. It's like, no. That'san HR thing.
Nope.
Tara Turk-Haynes (27:32):
We're not separate I I think the more we
start siloing ourselves, thegreater damage we're doing to
the people within theorganization. If we're not
coming together to talk aboutwhat our reporting metrics look
like and how they're connected,because they are connected, then
you're not doing you you areencouraging why people have a a
(27:52):
disdain for talent acquisition,for HR, because they're out
there. Like, people you know,you've seen it. Like, such
misinformation, but, also, onour part, we are not as
collaborative as we could be inorder to create that space for
people to feel like we are doingour best to keep them there and
talking about it. Right?
(28:13):
So you know me. Retention is ayou know, we were looking at
that regularly. Right? Like,weekly. Our attrition rates,
weekly.
We knew them as much as we knew,you know, any how many hires we
had.
Rhona Pierce (28:25):
Right. Well, thank you so so much for
Tara Turk-Haynes (28:28):
Oh, I love talking to you. This is such a
great conversation. I love sosmart and just really the
important things that we shouldbe thinking about.
Rhona Pierce (28:38):
Wow. There was so much packed into my conversation
with Tara. I hope you tookplenty of notes. Let's recap a
few of the key themes. Diversityhiring requires a clear
understanding of what it meansand why it matters, backed up by
data and a commitment tocontinuous improvement.
It requires a holistic datainformed approach that
(28:59):
prioritizes equity, inclusion,and belonging at every stage.
ERGs are underutilized strategyfor strengthening diversity
hiring. Building trust andproviding proper support is key
to tapping into their fullpotential. Recruiters need to
own their role as hiring subjectmatter experts and educate
(29:20):
hiring managers proactively.Don't wait to be asked for
diversity data.
Hiring diverse talent is justthe beginning. Retention is the
ultimate success metric andrequires ongoing work to create
a truly inclusive culture.People and talent leaders can't
afford to ignore the impact ofsocial and political issues on
(29:41):
the workplace. Staying pluggedin and adapting thoughtfully is
a must. I'd love to hear yourbiggest moments from this
conversation.
Connect with me on LinkedIn orTwitter and let me know. If
you're looking for more ofTara's wisdom, be sure to follow
her as well. And if you'relooking for a guest speaker for
your event or someone to trainyour team on equitable hiring
(30:03):
practices, schedule a free introcall with Tara at equity
activations.com. You can findall of our links in the show
notes. As talent acquisitionprofessionals, HR leaders, and
DEI advocates, it's up to us tokeep pushing for progress even
when it's challenging.
I hope this conversation hasgiven you some new insights and
(30:24):
strategies to take back to yourown organizations.
We're the subject matter experts. We are
the ones who do this on aregular basis. We know what
these candidates are saying,feeling, thinking, etcetera.
Funnel that through and tellthat story whether people are
asking for it or not because Iwould guarantee you most
companies don't even know whatthey're looking for when they
talk about diversity hiring. Ijust don't think they
Rhona Pierce (00:18):
know what that means. Welcome to throw out the
playbook, the podcast forrecruiters tired of hearing that
hiring is broken and ready to dosomething about it. I'm your
host, Rona Pierce. In today'sepisode, we're getting real
about the truth behind diversityhiring with Tara Turc Haines, an
executive leader with over 18years of experience in talent
(00:38):
acquisition. Tara is the founderand CEO of Equity Activations
where she partners withorganizations to integrate
diversity, equity, and inclusioninto their operations by
activating talent acquisitionprocesses, learning and
development programs, andemployee engagement initiatives
that drive measurable outcomes.
Towards the end of 2023, I hadthe opportunity to sit down with
(01:00):
Tara for a candid in-depthconversation about what it
really takes to make diversityhiring work. From her own
journey into DEI work to thecritical role of ERGs, data
driven strategies, and theimportance of retention, Tara
doesn't hold back. While you mayhave caught part of our
conversation on my YouTubechannel earlier this year,
(01:22):
today, I'm sharing the fullunfiltered discussion. Grab a
notebook because you're gonnawanna take notes. Let's dive in
as Tara shares how her earlyexperiences as a job seeker
ignited her passion for DEI.
Tara Turk-Haynes (01:35):
So given the nature of my background, like,
being a black woman and applyingfor jobs when I wasn't even in
talent yet, like, you know, Iwas a playwright. I needed a day
job to feed myself. I don'tbelieve in being a starving
artist because nobody should bestarving for anything. And so
whenever I was applying forroles, it was always, like, this
(01:56):
big to do with how I presentedmyself. Like, I had dreadlocks
at the time or a nose ring orI'm, like, just, like, visibly
black.
And so encountering people inthe talent space who weren't or
people who were trying toconform to this idea of
(02:17):
professionalism that was alwaysexclusive and excluded people
always bothered me. And so itwasn't until I was the EA to
our, CEO at Ticketmaster and ourchief people officer, who is
Beverly Carmichael, black woman.Like, Beverly was amazing, and I
(02:38):
had never encountered someonewith that high of a title in HR
who was black. Like, I justnever did. It never even
occurred to me.
You know? Like, there would besomeone in that space. And she
basically was like, I thinkyou'd be really good at talent
acquisition because she justlike, I think you have just,
like, a natural tact forunderstanding people in a way
(03:00):
that it's really helpful. Andso, I started off as a
coordinator in talentacquisition. So I feel like DEI
was always important to mebefore I even knew, like, what
it was.
And then the idea ofexperiencing frontline talent,
applying as a low level, like,admin person and what that
(03:20):
looked like, I was always I waslike, I never want anybody to go
through this. This isridiculous. Like, you should
never feel less than yourselftrying to feed yourself. Like,
that just doesn't even make anysense. So passionate about that,
and that's just kind of theworlds collided, you know, when
the role, of both of them cameup and I was able to apply for
(03:41):
it and get it.
Rhona Pierce (03:42):
Amazing. So I've been talking to a lot of people
in my audience just in the DMs,just starting conversations. It
seems like companies are settingup recruiting teams for failure
with unrealistic expectations asfar as what DEI. How do we
approach diversity hiring in away that ensures success for
(04:06):
everyone involved?
Tara Turk-Haynes (04:07):
So I think it goes back to your personal why
as a recruiter. Right? Like,what's your personal mission?
Like, why are you recruiting?And then why is the company
looking for any of thesediversity metrics at all?
Like, what are you doing withall of that? I feel like if
there's no cohesive idea aboutwhat that's like, then, yes,
there's going to be failure,because you're not on the same
(04:29):
page. You don't know what you'redoing with that data. Candidates
can sense when you don't knowwhat you're when you're asking
them those voluntary in thosevoluntary questions and you just
don't do anything with what it'sthe why. Right?
But the more, I think aboutthese things, the more I feel
like it should just be embeddedinto the job that you do from a
day to day perspective. And andone example of that for me is,
(04:53):
like, okay, so a lot of peopleuse the metric time to time to
fill. You and I both know wehate that metric, but whatever.
It's, like, standard for somepeople. Right?
Why is the diversity of yourpipeline and the stages that
they're going through notstandard as well? Right? So,
like, we are cherry picking whatDEI means for some, and then
(05:17):
doing business as usual forothers, and I think it all
should be business as usual. Soif you're if you're just a
recruiter, you're like, this is,you know, this is what I come
with. I come with these kind ofstats.
Even if you didn't ask for whatthis pipeline looks like from a
diversity perspective or ademographic perspective, each
state, I'm still gonna give itto you so that you understand
(05:37):
where you are. So I think it'sit's it's a little bit also,
like, you know, don't askpermission. Just make it part of
what you do. And, like, if theydon't do anything with it, it's
not because you didn't give itto them. So I think we need to
normalize this kind of behaviora lot more as recruiters than
just asking the company, youknow, what do they want from us
(05:58):
from a demographic perspective,because we're the subject matter
experts.
We are the ones who do this on aregular basis. We know what
these candidates are saying,feeling, thinking, etcetera.
Funnel that through and tellthat story whether people are
asking for it or not, because Iwould guarantee you most
companies don't even know whatthey're looking for when they
talk about diversity hiring. Ijust don't think they know what
that means.
Rhona Pierce (06:19):
True. And you mentioned a really great point,
and it's something that I reallylearned actually working with
you. It really opened my eyes. Alot of companies are very
focused on the top of funnelwhen it comes to DEI. Yes.
We have these many applicants.We're on this many diverse job
boards. Yeah. But lookingthrough the entire funnel and
(06:40):
seeing that is is so soimportant. What have you found
are the most realistic wayscompanies can measure the
success of their diversityhiring efforts?
Tara Turk-Haynes (06:56):
So I think if you start looking at where
candidates from a differentspecific demographics are
falling off in your in yourstages, I think that is the
clearest indicator of all. So,like, that's just data. You
can't even argue with that data.So if you're talking about
number of applicants, cool.Fine.
Number of applicants that getpast the recruiter phone screen,
interesting. Right? And then weget to the hiring manager still
(07:19):
falling off. You have to be ableto understand what that data is
telling you in terms of story.Your success is not how many
you've hired.
It's how many are able to havean equitable experience through
your stages and then how manystay. So, like, we're jumping
over. I think we're pinpointingone success metrics of, like,
(07:42):
how many people we've hired fromspecific demographics versus how
many people were able to getthrough that pipeline equitably,
and then what is our retentionlook like, you know, 1, 2 years
down the line. I hear a lot ofpeople talking about, like,
trying to calculate miss hires.Right?
And I feel like you gotta workbackwards. Right? Like, what are
(08:02):
your exit surveys saying? Whatare your onboarding surveys
saying? Like, a lot of that datacomes into what the success of
your your diversity hire reallylooks like.
And you have to define whatdiversity hiring means for you,
because each company, it's gonnabe different. Like, every every
company I've been at has had anexcuse about why why one process
(08:23):
has to be the shortcut. We needthis person yesterday. This is a
critical hire. Normally, wewould do it this way, but we're
not gonna do it this way becausex y z.
All of those are fightingagainst your efforts when you
talk about your commitment todiversity and inclusion in terms
of your talent acquisitionprocess. If you're making an
excuse here, you're always gonnamake an excuse, and then your
(08:45):
your your data is gonna sufferbecause that's still data.
Right? You don't exclude thatdata from the rest of it.
Rhona Pierce (08:52):
Yes. Data and data is my favorite thing.
Tara Turk-Haynes (08:56):
I know. I know. I learned so much from you
in terms of data. I'm startingto I learned to love it, and
then I under help you've helpedme tell the story, you know, in
a better way in terms of how youthink about it and how you
organize it. So I'm eternallygrateful to you for that because
it's it always makes animpression for me.
Rhona Pierce (09:14):
You just can't argue with data. It's it's you
just can't argue with There's noway. I know. One of the things
that I really like, one of yourapproaches to DEI and just
diversity hiring is includingERGs in the process. I think I
have not seen many companies dothat, and I think it's really
(09:37):
something that people shouldlook into.
So how do you thinking from yourexperience that ERGs contribute
to the success of diversityhiring, and what role should
they play in the overallstrategy?
Tara Turk-Haynes (09:51):
It's so it's it's so for me, you know, DEI is
all about connecting the dotswithin the organization. I don't
think it's just one departmentand this department and that. It
literally is a holistic story,and you can't really you know, I
I see a lot of companies saying,like, well, we need, you know,
diverse hiring panel. But if youonly have, you know, one Asian
(10:17):
American woman and she works inaccounting, but this is your
creative director role and theydon't ever work together, why do
you have her on the panel? Youknow what I'm saying?
Like, that's just tokenism to mein my experience. So building a
community of voices within theorganization, which is what I
think ERG should be. They'rethere to amplify their
(10:40):
experience in the world and telltheir coworkers what that feels
like both in this organization,but also in the world to better
educate people, because we areliterally not smart when it
comes to everybody'sexperiences. We just live in a
bubble of our own. We justexperience life in the in the
world that we kind of create.
You gotta let people in, andthat's why I think it's
(11:02):
important to do that at work.So, I think ERGs are community
based organizations. I don'tthink HR should start them.
That's a hot take for a lot ofpeople, but I just feel like it
works better when someone raisestheir hand and they say, I'm
really passionate about myexperience in the world and in
this place, and I wanna start anorganization so that we could
talk about it so peopleunderstand. And then that
(11:24):
naturally then flows into how ifI hire somebody who's from that,
you know, group, don't you thinkthey wanna hear from the people
in that group within theorganization?
What's your experience like? Youknow, What how can I contribute?
You're doing a lot of employerbranding. You're doing a lot of,
like, onboarding initially.Right?
(11:45):
Because then those people havealready found maybe, like, some
a crumb of a community that theymight be able to attach
themselves to later on. If theyget hired, you get people
excited. So I just feel like,and, you know, also, it goes
without saying, I feel like youshould pay your ERG leaders if
you can. So then that way, theyare performing an additional
(12:07):
service within the organizationthat only strengthens the
organization. So they're theones who are excited about
saying, like, I'd love to be onthis panel.
We'd love to build our communitymore. I really wanna talk to
this candidate. Let them know,you know, what it's really like
and how they can contribute. Itjust is a natural flow, so we're
not, like, siloed within our,you know, or, like, our our own
(12:29):
worlds that we live in, whichis, you know, part of the
problem, I think, as a society.Like, break the walls down.
So, yeah, I just feel like it'sreally important. I just want
you know, ERGs or communitieswho are just trying to amplify
their voices, and if they canbuild them in a talent
acquisition process, thenplease, by all means, do it. You
know? Their their feedback wouldbe so valuable as well. Right?
(12:50):
How do I how do I build thoserising stars when people think
about, you know, great talentwithin the organization, how to
identify that? Somebody who'sgonna go above and beyond,
somebody's gonna participate inbuilding culture, that's your
ERGs right there. Right?
Rhona Pierce (13:06):
Yeah. Have you had or have you encountered any
pushback on this strategy ofincluding ERGs within the hiring
process?
Tara Turk-Haynes (13:17):
Not necessarily. I feel like the
hesitancy I've seen before comesfrom not completely
understanding exactly what Ijust said because it's so brand
new and it's not the norm. But Ialso feel like there's a couple
things that we kind of have tohave in order for this to
happen. You gotta have trustwithin that organization. Right?
(13:37):
So those people need tounderstand that you're asking
them to do this because youtrust them. Right? And if there
is a an apprehension, that's aculture thing within the
organization and not talentacquisition. So if they're a
little hesitant, this is this issome, like, culture building
that you have to do. And when Isay culture, I'm talking about,
like, how you show up within theorganization, psychological
(13:59):
safety.
I'm talking about, like, how youfeel like there's transparency.
Do you feel like you're on thesame page? Like, all of these
different things. And then fromthe hiring team's perspective, I
really feel like we have to do alot of work. You and I have
talked about this a lot,educating hiring teams on how to
actually hire.
Right? Because everybody thinksthey're so good at it, but the
(14:20):
good people are always learninghow to do it better. And so the
talent acquisition team is thereto say, we are on the front
lines of hiring, and here's howyou do it better. So if I tell
you that having an ERG lead isgonna be great for your
interview panel, trust andbelieve that you're I'm helping
you have the best person forthis role show up and have the
(14:43):
opportunity for them tounderstand what it's like within
this within this organizationwithout you having to do that
hiring manager, extra call, youknow, competing offer. Like,
this mitigates some of thatbecause you don't have to sell
the person after you've made theoffer if you're already giving
them, like, a real a reallycomprehensive view within the
(15:04):
organization from a differentperspective outside of the team.
I think that's so valuable.
Rhona Pierce (15:09):
Yes. The changing gears a little bit. Yeah. We
know that a lot has happened inthe past couple of years,
especially this year as far asDEI and diversity hiring and how
companies are prioritizing ordeprioritizing it. How has your
own thinking about diversityhiring changed over time?
Tara Turk-Haynes (15:34):
So loaded. I, I think I'm learning, 1, that we
are not all sharing the samedefinition of what DEI and
diversity means. And so I thinkthe solution to that is to have
really comprehensiveconversations with stakeholders
(15:54):
about what we mean as anorganization when we say
diversity, diversity hiring, andDEI. Let's just be very going
back to your point, data driven,and say, like, what are we
trying to achieve here? What'sour why?
Because before that, I thinkthat, you know, DEI started
becoming a trend for a lot ofcompanies. You know, George
(16:15):
Floyd happens. We're gonna doblack boxes. We're gonna say
this. We're gonna do that.
And I don't think that there wasa road map of, like, what that
actually was going to evolveinto. We weren't all on the same
page about what we were tryingto achieve. When it comes to
hiring, I think that you know?Unfortunately, I've heard this
from some leaders where they'rejust like, I really would like
(16:37):
to hire more from thisparticular group. You know what
I mean?
And, like, that's not DEI. It'sreally about making your process
equitable so that group canparticularly thrive within your
hiring process and not be, youknow, shut out due to all of
these different kinds ofstereotypes, biases, and in
inability to hire equitably.Right? That and not putting the
(17:00):
onus on them, but on us to bebetter in our hiring process. So
I feel like there's aspecificity that we didn't have
a few years ago that we shouldbe driving towards now just like
we talk about any biz strategicbusiness initiative.
If you're saying that you needto have this year over year, you
(17:21):
know, percentage in terms ofyour revenue, like, can we be as
data driven as that? Like, weare not getting enough
candidates from this particulargroup. How can we go back to the
core of it and say, we need toreally reach this community in a
different way? I mean, it it canlook so many different ways from
different organizations andwhat's important to them, but I
think that specificity hasreally started, to kind of land
(17:45):
with me because I thought wewere all, like, many on the same
page, and we're just not Ithought we were just gonna open
the floodgates of, like, okay.We're all ready to just, like,
take our biases off and ourstereotypes, but people aren't
ready for that because I don'teven think a lot of people
understand how they'reperpetuating some of these kind
of, ways that people are notbeing treated equitably.
(18:08):
Like, we're not evenacknowledging our own, you know,
barriers, like, what we'repreventing people from
achieving. And so without that,we're not gonna be successful.
Rhona Pierce (18:18):
I I think that hiring is just, like you said,
something that people justeveryone thinks they know how to
do it. And, when you add on tothat, the fact that the reason
is and I blame us as talentacquisition professionals for
that because we haven't alwayspositioned ourselves as we are
the subject matter experts. Weare the people who know how to
(18:39):
do it. Let's do training. Let'sdrive it.
Same thing's happening with DEI.And then to DEI, you add on to
it the fact that people thinkthat just the notion of them not
being accepting of someone orhaving a bias means that they're
a bad person. Yeah. And theydon't wanna be seen as a bad
person. So there's, like, evenmore resistance to being like,
(19:02):
wait a minute.
Let's look at this. Like, I ambiased. I am doing this. How can
I get better?
Tara Turk-Haynes (19:08):
Yeah. I and I think what I've noticed in the
past, I wanna say even year. Sonow we're looking at, like,
there was an influx of hiring,say, for example, recruiters.
There were, like, a year ago.Right?
We're all we're all at home. TheFAANG companies are hiring so
many people to sometimes nothire. They're just on staff just
in case something happens.Right? I had people reaching out
(19:33):
to me during the pandemic whowere, like, not even in this
field saying that, recruitersreaching out to them to be
recruiters.
Hey. I just I really needbenefits, so I'm just gonna, you
know, apply for this recruitingjob because they told me I could
really do it. And I was like, doyou know what recruiting really
means? Like, do you know this isa skills based job. Right?
(19:53):
DEI is the same thing. There wasan influx of people. I get so
many people who are like, canyou talk to me about how I can
get a career in DEI? First, Isay, you don't want this, but if
you're not gonna listen to me,you know, go to Aubrey
Blanche's, blog she has aboutnot being a DEI person, like,
what it really means datadriven, being really you know,
(20:14):
you gotta learn Excel. Like, youit's not just, like, programs or
clubs and fun people andstories, and I think that's
skills based.
Right? The ability to be able toaudit an organization in terms
of their equitability means thatyou have to have skills to do
that, and so one of the things Ibelieve is that this is why we
(20:34):
have the influx that we haveright now, because there are
just a lot of people who don'tknow exactly what it takes to do
the job effectively in terms ofKPIs and ROIs and all of those
different things. They just arethere because, you know, it's
everyone thinks they can do it.And it's the same with
recruiting, HR. Anything thatpeople have deemed
(20:55):
administrative in the past isskills based, and it takes
someone who is continuouslyworking on that skill to be
better in order for them to beeffective at it.
And I don't think there are alot people who kind of
understand that scope of it.
Rhona Pierce (21:10):
Considering everything that's happening,
it's like I I you can't evenpinpoint to something.
Considering just everythingthat's happening in the world.
Yeah. What cultural shifts doyou predict will have, like, a
significant impact on diversityhiring practices in 2024?
Tara Turk-Haynes (21:27):
It's such a mess right now. I feel like it's
such a mess. And I'm talkingspecifically in the US
politically. The election'sgonna be a lot. Right?
I don't. I I do feel like that'sgonna have a huge factor on the
economy. It always does, butthat also then connects to, you
(21:50):
know, our legislative and ourcourt branches and all of these
all of these things connect,right, in terms of, like, we
didn't know Roe v Wade was gonnabe turned over. Like, the people
were trying to tell a lot of us,and we were just like, that's
impossible. And I think peopleneed to understand the
impossible can happen, and thesecurity that we feel with
(22:11):
protections for people who havenot always had the most
accessible experience within theworkplace are very fragile.
And so it really depends on usvoting. Like, if you are
passionate about, like, yourability to, you know, apply for
a job remotely, hybrid, youwanna see salary, you know,
(22:32):
ranges. All of that is connectedto the politics of this country.
And because that's so mercurialright now, I can't pinpoint
where we're gonna go becauseit's so up in the air. Like, I
never I don't think you know, mydad passed away in 2005, and I
always think, like, when when Ithink of something really
ridiculous, I think of myselfexplaining to him, you know,
(22:54):
hey, dad.
This is so crazy. You wanna hearwhat's wild? Is the Supreme
Court is now doing, like,thinking of doing ethics,
policies for themselves, exceptfor we can't see them. You know
what I mean? Like, what?
It's almost like, dad, you canuse your phone as a GPS because
you couldn't back that. Like, itit's just so wild. So I just
(23:14):
wanna let you know, I think it'sreally important for people to
know it's all connected, whichis why you should be talking
about some of this stuff at workin a way that's very safe and
connected to the business andconnected to people and
productivity. Like, it's notseparate. There's just really
there's a really productive wayto have these conversations, and
(23:35):
it's transparent and supportivewithout it turning into a like,
a a a hot fire, you know, of ofdebate or whatever.
Like, we really kind of justneed to be bracing ourselves for
the impossible happening becauseit could. It's happened already.
Rhona Pierce (23:51):
Very, very good point. And a lot of people tend
to think, well, this is justhappening. This is nothing I can
do to control it. It's just likekind of like, oh, well, what can
we do? Let's complain about itonline.
Where we really need to becomplaining about it is voting.
Because who you vote for, not somuch president, but every single
Tara Turk-Haynes (24:14):
Every single thing. And, like and and people
who kind of shy away from this,your HR team, for example, is
going to have to deal with, youknow, ramifications of benefits
changing, ramifications ofcaregivers, you know, how you
hire in terms of using yourdemographics, what's legal,
(24:35):
what's not legal. All of thesethings come back to us at some
point. It is not over there.It's immediately right here.
And so really kind of makingsure that you are strategically
thinking about all of thosescenarios is important. And
that's why I love CEOs who arealways like, yes. Voting is,
it's a day. It's it's acorporate day. You take that
(24:58):
day.
Go vote. Do whatever because weneed more people to have their
voice so that we can kind ofdeal with these things in real
time, like, regularly. Like, itjust isn't it's normalizing, the
impact that, you know, anythingthat happens in the world is
gonna happen within yourworkplace.
Rhona Pierce (25:15):
Yes. I like that. Anything that happens within the
world is going to happen withinyour workplace. It's true. It's
true.
Last thing. This is a question,has no right answer or anything.
What do you believe to be trueabout diversity hiring, but you
don't have any data to support?It's just a gut feeling. I
Tara Turk-Haynes (25:36):
believe that if you are hiring an only, That
can be an only woman. It can bean only, you know, Latinx woman,
man, nonbinary person,transgender. You are setting
them up for failure if you arenot putting support systems
(25:57):
within place so that there ispsychological safety. There is
space for them to take up. Thereis holding other people
accountable.
All of that work that you did tohire them means nothing if they
leave within 6 months becauseyou didn't do the work to make
that space available for them tosucceed. So spend all your
(26:22):
money, do all your diversityhiring, do your conferences, and
all of these different things,your employer branding. If
they're leaving in 6 months to ayear, you gotta look at you
know, that was a waste. Yougotta look at what's what's
happening there, and I and I seethat more often than not. And I
think about, you know, the 500Fortune 500 CEOs, and there's 2
(26:44):
black women.
Right? There were 3. There's 2.You know, I think 5% are women.
Like, we have a problem, and,like, we're we have a problem in
the workplace, and I think we'renot really kind of understanding
that from a larger perspective.
We're giving excuses as to whyinstead of coming together for
(27:04):
solutions and collaborating onhow best to counteract some of
this stuff and not normalize it.Like, I I I I fundamentally
believe diversity hiring meansall your money in that program
means nothing if you can't doanything when it comes to
retention.
Rhona Pierce (27:19):
I know that's something that we're very on the
same page. I got a lot of hate.I always get it anytime I say
that the most important metricfor talent acquisition people is
retention. It's like, no. That'san HR thing.
Nope.
Tara Turk-Haynes (27:32):
We're not separate I I think the more we
start siloing ourselves, thegreater damage we're doing to
the people within theorganization. If we're not
coming together to talk aboutwhat our reporting metrics look
like and how they're connected,because they are connected, then
you're not doing you you areencouraging why people have a a
(27:52):
disdain for talent acquisition,for HR, because they're out
there. Like, people you know,you've seen it. Like, such
misinformation, but, also, onour part, we are not as
collaborative as we could be inorder to create that space for
people to feel like we are doingour best to keep them there and
talking about it. Right?
(28:13):
So you know me. Retention is ayou know, we were looking at
that regularly. Right? Like,weekly. Our attrition rates,
weekly.
We knew them as much as we knew,you know, any how many hires we
had.
Rhona Pierce (28:25):
Right. Well, thank you so so much for
Tara Turk-Haynes (28:28):
Oh, I love talking to you. This is such a
great conversation. I love sosmart and just really the
important things that we shouldbe thinking about.
Rhona Pierce (28:38):
Wow. There was so much packed into my conversation
with Tara. I hope you tookplenty of notes. Let's recap a
few of the key themes. Diversityhiring requires a clear
understanding of what it meansand why it matters, backed up by
data and a commitment tocontinuous improvement.
It requires a holistic datainformed approach that
(28:59):
prioritizes equity, inclusion,and belonging at every stage.
ERGs are underutilized strategyfor strengthening diversity
hiring. Building trust andproviding proper support is key
to tapping into their fullpotential. Recruiters need to
own their role as hiring subjectmatter experts and educate
(29:20):
hiring managers proactively.Don't wait to be asked for
diversity data.
Hiring diverse talent is justthe beginning. Retention is the
ultimate success metric andrequires ongoing work to create
a truly inclusive culture.People and talent leaders can't
afford to ignore the impact ofsocial and political issues on
(29:41):
the workplace. Staying pluggedin and adapting thoughtfully is
a must. I'd love to hear yourbiggest moments from this
conversation.
Connect with me on LinkedIn orTwitter and let me know. If
you're looking for more ofTara's wisdom, be sure to follow
her as well. And if you'relooking for a guest speaker for
your event or someone to trainyour team on equitable hiring
(30:03):
practices, schedule a free introcall with Tara at equity
activations.com. You can findall of our links in the show
notes. As talent acquisitionprofessionals, HR leaders, and
DEI advocates, it's up to us tokeep pushing for progress even
when it's challenging.
I hope this conversation hasgiven you some new insights and
(30:24):
strategies to take back to yourown organizations.
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