May 31, 2023 • 45 mins
What if running could be more than just a workout, but a tool to transform your life? Join us in an illuminating conversation with running legend and Olympian Coach Jeff Galloway as he shares his journey from a lazy, out-of-shape kid to the running powerhouse he is today. We discuss the mental and physical benefits of running, uncovering the science behind how it activates the 'good attitude circuit' in our brains and positively impacts our everyday lives.
In our chat with Jeff, we also explore his innovative techniques to reduce injuries and exhaustion, while still achieving faster times. Learn about the research behind the optimal walking time during breaks, and how experimenting with different run-walk strategies can benefit various runners. Jeff's app allows users to customize their running routine, helping them overcome obstacles they may encounter along their journey. Download the app for iOS or Google Play.
Don't miss our conversation about the running-roulette Tuesday concept and how it can help you become a better runner.
Gain valuable insights on refueling and rehydrating properly, and staying motivated with Jeff's positive messages through his resource-laden website!
Lace up your shoes and get ready for more miles and smiles with us and Coach Galloway!
Have questions or want to chat? Send me a text!
Join the newsletter list for updates, special offers, and exclusive behind-the-scenes content.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey friends, coach Shelby and Coach Christine,
welcoming you in and letting youknow it's time for brunch,
where there is always an opentable, a hot cup of coffee, an
endless running fun to keep youmoving and grooving.
So, wherever you're at, we wantyou to put a smile on your face
.
If you're going to be loggingthose miles, lace up those shoes
(00:23):
and let's go for it.
Because today, welcoming to thebrunch table, we have a legend
and we're not embellishing here.
It is a true legend, not justin the running world but also in
the world of coaching.
And I have to say CoachChristine and I did both a
little bit of healthy geekingout before welcoming on this
(00:44):
guest.
So I'm not going to beat on theground the bush, but today on
brunch we are honored andexcited to have Olympian running
coach the one the only Mr JeffGalloway joining us.
And Christine, i know you are abig Jeffer.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I am.
I have shared my story of how Icame to explore the Run, walk,
run and, jeff I'm sure I don'tknow if you recall me telling
you the story.
I'm sure it's like very manypeople I found somebody that was
running that when I was runninga race and they looked fresh as
a daisy at the end when Iwanted to basically die.
So I figured it was definitelysomething to look into.
(01:22):
And then I had the privilege ofactually running a local race
with you and thought there'ssomething to this method.
It makes me feel great and I'veactually feel like I get
stronger in my seasons, versuswearing down from season to
season.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Absolutely.
It has so many benefits and Imust admit, when I first started
teaching this back in 1974 Ididn't realize but just the tip
of the iceberg, but it everyweek there's someone that has
some type of a unique benefit tothem.
(02:00):
And this is what it's about.
It's finding ways to give youthe power and the motivation to
be able to do what you want to.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Well, with that said, let's take it on back because,
as we mentioned definitely arunning legend We have an
Olympian officially coached.
Shelby's all about the elite.
It's something that makes herheart like absolutely super
ecstatic.
So how did you get started inthis wonderful running sport?
Speaker 3 (02:31):
I was a very lazy and out of shape kid.
My dad had been in the Navy andI had gone to 13 schools my
first seven years.
The 14th school, requiredmandatory athletics after school
for boys and I didn't have anyskills.
(02:54):
I floundered around the firstquarter and during the winter
quarter I had been hanging outwith a number of guys that were
on the cross country team.
Now I didn't really getinvolved immediately with them,
but they dragged me out duringthe winter quarter, promising
(03:17):
that there were some trails inthe woods that I could hide out
in.
I really didn't have to workout, but I got out there and it
was so tough the first few daysthat I really wanted to give up.
But after that third day Istarted receiving so many brain
(03:40):
benefits that are now quite wellrecognized in the research that
come uniquely from running, andI didn't want that to go away.
But I wasn't very good.
It wasn't until my senior year,five years later, that I was
able to qualify to get into thestate championships in my state,
(04:02):
georgia, which wasn't thatgreat a state anyway And so I
very slowly worked my way up.
But I guess what really kept megoing were friendships.
To this day.
Some of my best friends are theones that I met those first
(04:23):
years, and all of my reallyclose friends are runners.
It's a bonding type thing andit really pulled me through some
very difficult situations in mylife.
But the other thing that wasincredibly powerful is how an
(04:44):
individual run can turn yourattitude around.
It can give you energy when youdidn't have energy before And
to give you the strength toconfront challenges that you
wouldn't confront otherwise, andit just it changes your life.
I hear this from people everysingle week and at the Disney
(05:06):
races I hear from well over 2000individuals who tell me ways
that they've been able toimprove their lives as a result
of having gotten into the methodof run, walk run, and the
crucial factor that theydivulged to me is that there's
(05:26):
no way that they would have evergotten into running unless they
found run, walk run.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Which is so true, and I know we're going to go
through all of that greatness,but I find it really interesting
.
I would assume, having movingaround a lot, especially when
you're a kid, it's hard to makefriends and have that connection
because you are there for ashort amount of times.
I mean, 14 schools in sevenyears, that's not a great
(05:54):
average.
So I love, though, that youwere able to kind of find that
community and obviously we doknow the rest of the story, that
it's obviously created a lot ofcommunities thereafter, but it
really, i think, is a testamentto runners in general, to where
(06:14):
it is its own little built incommunity.
You just kind of like the rightrunning shoe.
You just have to find the rightone that fits for you.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Well, you're absolutely right.
In my case, i was the new kidin class at 14 different schools
and I found it very difficultto meet friends.
I really didn't have many closefriends because we were moving
so quickly, and then, within acouple of months of hanging out
(06:46):
with the cross country runners,i had a whole team of good
friendships.
I mean, it was a bonding thing.
That was incredible for me AndI discovered, as I moved through
the rest of my life and throughnow, dozens and dozens of
running groups, of what apowerful thing this is in our
(07:11):
sport and our activity thatrunners naturally bond together
through running.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Must be a sweat.
I'm going to go with that.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Whatever?
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Well, jeff's a little bit of a brain science geek as
well, so I bet you he's got afew research papers that he
could pull out and let us knowexactly what that bonding
experience is.
But what comes to mind, jeff,as I'm hearing you talk as well,
i mean emotion.
You're like, literally I feelall of the emotions of what
you're describing, because thisis such a beautiful bonding
experience.
And also Coach Shelby and Ihave been talking about how the
(07:43):
US Surgeon General has come outwith.
The latest epidemic that'sreally affecting folks is
loneliness, and I feel likerunning is that cure.
Or moving and run, walk, run,helping to minimize that
threshold where so many peopleare so overwhelmed by the
thought of going out and goingfor a run, and I feel like run,
walk, run is really there to beable to help to lower that
(08:04):
barrier or completely throw thatbarrier out the door.
So let's talk a little bitabout that, because you have an
illustrious career.
You have the US World Recordholder US holder for the 10
miler, i mean, which I alwaysblows my mind, coach Shelby,
whenever he hit like the 10 mileI think I'm still probably in
(08:24):
the first three or four miles ofmy 10 mile run whenever he's
actually officially done.
But still so, you, you have anillustrious career.
You did translate that intocoaching.
Where did run, walk, run comeinto play for you.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Well, where I made my shift.
I had originally decided to goto graduate school to become a
teacher, which I did, and Itaught for a year in a classroom
, but it wasn't fulfilling forme in a number of different ways
(08:59):
, and so I started at the end ofthat first year looking for
ways that I could teach, but notnecessarily in the classroom,
and I decided because a friendof mine was involved in the
early years of Nike and he hadactually opened up a Nike store
(09:23):
I decided I didn't really wantan all sports store, i wanted a
running store.
Now it wasn't a smart movebecause there weren't enough
runners at the time to make asuccessful business.
So when I opened my store whichwas the first running specialty
store in the United States andprobably in the universe,
(09:47):
because it wasn't profitable andnobody else was doing it But I
realized that I had to do someother things to keep the store
afloat financially.
And when a customer came in whoorganized classes for the
general public and invited me toteach classes and beginning
(10:11):
running, i jumped at thatopportunity.
I immediately discovered, withbeginning runners who I'd never
worked with before, that I hadto change things up from nonstop
running And so I used a verysimple version of Run While Run
(10:36):
and that is the Huff and Puffindicator.
So I ran with each one of thethree groups in my group, my
first class of 22.
And I would listen for theHuffing and Puffing.
As soon as somebody startedbreathing heavily, we walked,
(10:57):
and so during the first sessionof 10 weeks I was very pleased
to see that every single personof the 22 at the end of 10 weeks
finished either a 5K or 10K.
But what really blew my mind isthat there were no injuries,
and I realized right off the batthat it had to be due to the
(11:20):
insertion of the walk brakesright early on in every single
run, and indeed that is what wehave found over the years.
We now have more than 500,000folks who have reported in
success from using the method,and that is the database that I
(11:41):
have used to set the ratios andto set up other things that we
use in the program.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
And it truly is.
I mean no blowing steamanywhere.
It is truly a game changer.
Whether you are a beginningrunner, a seasoned runner,
wherever you're at in therunning journey, it truly is a
breath of fresh air.
And I always have to ask thisquestion When something like
(12:09):
this becomes such a pivotal partof an industry, when you were
doing this and realizing themagic, did you know then that
that could really be somethingspecial and to grow from, Or
were you just excited that atthat moment, everybody was
injury free?
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Well, certainly, staying injury free was very
unusual during the 70s, when Istarted using the method.
Almost every runner wouldcomplain about some significant
injury that they had had orcurrently had, and I wanted to
do away with that.
That certainly was a missionthat I had right from the very
(12:53):
beginning, but what was reallyeven more exciting to me is that
this method became a way ofgaining control over the running
process, that you didn't haveto just go put one foot in front
of the other until you're hurtor were exhausted, that you had
(13:15):
liberation from those two things, and I started collecting data
right from the very beginning,and that really what has driven
our ability to tell almostanyone, at almost any pace, what
they can use for running andwalking.
I even ran my very fastestmarathon when I was 35 years old
(13:39):
using Run, walk Run.
It was in the Houston marathon,and I ran a 216 marathon and
improved two full minutes, whichwas a huge improvement at that
level, and I'm totally convincedthat it had to be the insertion
of the walk brakes And, in mycase, what I used in that one is
(14:03):
from the beginning, i wouldwalk through each water stop,
and the water stops were everytwo miles, but that did the
trick.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
I love that.
I love that, first of all, thefact that you were able to have
a personal best when you've beenrunning for such a long time,
and it was really just theintroduction of this methodology
that helped to make that happen.
And I think we could say thatwith pretty much 100% certainty,
because we do know that thegains that we have as runners
(14:35):
kind of become a little bit Iwon't say they're diminishing,
but we don't necessarily havethe opportunity to really get
those PRs after a couple ofdecades worth of running.
Or maybe we can PR our agegroup, but not necessarily back
to when we originally startedrunning.
So that's incredible, jeff.
So you yourself have had greatsuccess.
not to mention, as you said,you have changed the running
(14:56):
community on its head, because Ithink that once upon a time
there was a belief that if youweren't straight running from
start to finish, if you weren'tin absolute agony, if you didn't
want to hate the experience,then you weren't considered a
quote unquote real runner.
And now we have much moreacceptance of making this a
(15:19):
lifelong pursuit that keeps ushappy both on the run and
afterwards.
So thank you again for makingthat happen.
What do you say to people whodo still resist the Galloway
method, though.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Oh, I tell them that they have every right to
determine how they run.
Running is a freeform activity,and the people that I used to
have trouble with would come upto me and say, well, you're not
supposed to walk.
I mean, running is running andthat's what you do.
(15:54):
And so my comment to them is oh, so you have the rule book.
I haven't seen the rule bookabout running, could you?
please show that written down tome in the rule book.
And this is the most attractivething that people tell me about
running There is no rule book.
You determine the rules, you'rein charge of this whole thing.
(16:17):
It's a very empoweringexperience to be in charge of
something that turns on the goodattitude circuit, the
empowerment circuit and theenergy circuit in your brain to
make you feel better.
But the whole bottom line withrunning is that you can do it
the way you want to And I'm allin favor of people that get
(16:41):
enjoyment out of running nonstop.
Go for it.
Sadly, most of those folks endup dropping out of running if
they persist and not wanting toever take a walk break.
So I want people to run untilthey're 100 and continue to get
those wonderful mental benefits.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
I think that's a really important point.
I'm going to say that probablyat least 15 more times
throughout this entire reporting, But you hit the nail on the
head is so many people drop outand drop off of running And I
would I'm going to go out on thelimb here and say most runners,
if not probably all runners ifyou gave them the option between
PRing for X amount of years orbeing able to run long term, I'd
(17:25):
say most of them are going topick running long term.
And I knew I liked you, but thesarcasm with the rule book I
mean you just.
you just even went up a coupleof notches, if that's even
possible, because sarcasm is mysecond language, but still done
in such a very polite way.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Absolutely.
Oh, my goodness.
Well, jeff, i again, i lovethis so much I love I want to
take it back and kind ofreiterate the point that you
discussed the empowerment thatwe get from running, and that is
ultimately, yes, running longterm, all of the incredible
benefits, but the fact that wecan empower ourselves in such a
beautiful way, because life canhand us a lot of lemons and
(18:05):
sometimes the best way to makelemonade is to lace up those
shoes and get out there.
So let's definitely talk a bitmore about some of that.
You've mentioned you've touchedon it, on some of the brain
science, but I know again,because I'm a little bit of a
brain science geek, i know thatyou are a little bit of a brain
science geek that can you giveus more about some of the
research that you've shown with,specifically, run, walk, run
(18:29):
and helping to really maximizethose really good feeling
benefits, not just for ourphysicality but also our mental
status?
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Absolutely Well.
Several years ago, when I wasgiven the assignment to write my
book Mental Training, I knew ofa number of mental training
techniques that I had used inthe Olympics and a lot of
challenging situations, but Ihad no idea why they worked.
So I took six months off andpoured through the research and
(19:01):
there were a lot of conflictingideas about what was actually
going on in the brain.
But I came upon some amazingsources and one of them, for
example, that I continue to usealmost every day is a book
called Spark.
It's written by aneuroscientist and psychiatrist,
(19:23):
john Rady.
It is a fantastic compiling ofthe research studies on how
exercise changes your brain andrunning as cited as the activity
in exercise that elevates thosechanges to the highest level.
(19:43):
And just to summarize verybriefly the category of benefits
exercise in general, butrunning to the highest level
turns on important braincircuits that can change the way
you feel and the way you think.
The circuit that is sort ofnicknamed the good attitude
(20:07):
circuit is turned on.
This is why you can start notfeeling so good about life And
by the time you finish your runyou are bubbly and excited and
you feel good.
Same is true with energy.
You can start a run saying I'mnot going to be able to go more
than a mile today And you end upgoing 10 or 12 miles and feel
(20:29):
better at the end than you feltall day long.
And the empowerment circuit is.
Most people will cite it asbeing the most important for
them because it's enabled themto overcome extremely
challenging situations in lifewhere they felt down and out And
(20:49):
through a series of runs, theypulled themselves out of it
because they were turning onthis empowerment circuit in the
brain.
The research went further, in myview, in other sources, showing
how these brain circuits weredeveloped over millions of years
(21:10):
as our ancestors were trying tokeep moving to find food.
And we are the beneficiary ofevolution of the brain in these
circuits, which enabled ourancestors, when they thought
that they couldn't go anotherstep, to keep going and going
(21:32):
and going.
And when we get out on a run,we pull off the strength that
they have given us and empowerus as a result of it.
The other area which isextremely interesting and is
identified in another stellarbook called the story of the
(21:54):
human body by an evolutionarybiologist from Harvard, is that,
through forward motion,exercise and then having some
running types of experiences.
Through our six million years ofhistory as human beings, a very
(22:17):
important part of the brain wasdeveloped called the
hippocampus, and that is thecenter for learning, for memory
and for new growth of braincells.
Research shows that when yourun you stimulate the production
of a hormone called BDNF,brain-derived neurotrophic
(22:37):
factor, and the scientists callit miracle growth for the brain,
because what it does is itstimulates new growth of brain
cells.
One study recently showed morethan a hundred thousand new
brain cells in three days ofrunning.
But the other exciting thingabout this hormone is it not
(22:59):
only stimulates that the newstem cells, it brings them into
the parts of the brain that neednew brain cells and puts them
to work so that they staypermanent.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
So you actually grow your brain by continuing to run
so see, grows your calf muscles,grows your glutes and grows
your brain.
I mean, what more can we reallyask for from one activity in
confidence and social circle.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
I feel like I am.
I'm at church, like I'm gettingto hear all of the wonderful
things of why we love what we do, and I do want to go ahead and
let folks know.
If you are rolling through hereon your run, or maybe you are
listening when you're in the carand you feel like you too are
going to church and you'reyou're like, absolutely Jeff,
amen.
Well, friends, you can alsohead over and see Jeff in person
(23:48):
, because he has an incredibleretreat coming up here in June
in Blue Mountain Beach, florida,but also in August.
So if you haven't, you need tohead over to his website,
jeffgallowaycom.
Check out, first of all, packedwith breeze horses.
Coach Shelby and I personallyactually go here quite often
because, again, jeff is, as youcan tell, very passionate about
(24:09):
what he does.
He is not a gatekeeper.
He wants to share his knowledgewith folks freely.
The thing is is that it's justalmost impossible to capture all
of his knowledge, especiallyjust a one podcast episode.
So you can check him out at theretreat for sure.
I'll have that informationlinked in episode notes as well,
but you've got so many excitingthings going on, jeff, to
continue espousing how wonderfulRun Walk Run is including your
(24:30):
app that you now have on bothiOS and Android absolutely,
we're very pleased, and my son,weston, took this son as a
project.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
It's a major project and it took quite a while to put
all the pieces together, but itis truly the best running app
that you're ever going to find.
It not only has runningtraining programs and resources
on motivation when you are lowand what to do about fluids and
(25:05):
all this stuff, but it hasnutritional resources too that
were put together by ourregistered dietician, who is
Carissa Galloway.
She's also a key announcer forthe Disney events, but she a lot
of people don't realize it, butshe finished first in her class
(25:25):
for her nutrition degree.
She is really knowledgeable andreally does a fantastic job
with the content in nutritionabsolutely she is such a ray too
.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
I will say she made those early morning wake-ups a
little bit more manageable atRun Disney.
I still think her Daisy Duckcostume was my favorite from
springtime surprise weekend.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
I do what I do when I was a great one how early does
Carissa have to get up?
because of course she alwayshas great costumes and I feel
like if we're there at fouro'clock three o'clock in the
morning she must be up at oneo'clock.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
If not, she even get to go to bed during run Disney
weekends well, she is very sleepdeprived during Disney weekends
, but but she has to get outthere.
Yeah, she, she gets up aboutone and she has to be out there
by two to two thirty and they gothrough rehearsals.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Of course she has all the makeup and and wardrobe and
stuff and and yet she gets outthere and is as bubbly as you'll
ever find anybody in themorning amazing oh, it's also
those benefits as brainchemicals of all the incredible
running that she's able toharness for those early morning
wake-ups, which again goes backto why this is such a great
(26:43):
methodology.
So I do want to continuetouching on the fact, like you
said, running for the long game,and how run walk run does help
to diminish the chances forinjury because, as you mentioned
earlier on, this is ahigh-impact sport.
It does generally come with alarge fallout, if you will, of
folks that do get injured.
(27:05):
If not even in the firstportion of when they start
training, at some part of theirtraining they could have some
injuries happen.
So, with knowing that run walkhelps to diminish those benefit,
those possibilities, and helpsto have the benefit of
continuing to run stronger, doyou find that that's also why we
see folks being able tocontinue getting personal best
(27:26):
and getting stronger becausethey can stay consistent with
their running versus having totake large swaths of time off to
recover?
Speaker 3 (27:33):
that is certainly one of the major ways that we
improve by not simply notgetting injured and a lot of our
runners never run a singlespeed workout and keep improving
because they don't get injuredand the body is programmed to
get better as you continue to doan activity like running.
(27:54):
But get getting back to thefoundation of why this situation
works and why non-stop runningultimately ultimately does not
work.
It goes back to our heritage,in that the researchers, the
anthropologists that studyancient man, believed that our
(28:16):
ancestors did very littlerunning.
They did run, but they mostlywalked, and they walked tens of
thousands of miles, sometimes ona single track.
It was just finding food,because the main reason for
death in our species until veryrecently has been starvation.
(28:38):
So our ancestors had it tough.
They had to keep moving to findfood and they did, and they
bequeathed us with amazingendurance and sweat glands and
all these things that enable usto keep going when we are
stressed, the brain benefitsbeing the highest level of all
(28:59):
those things.
But there was a period, cited bythe anthropologists, when our
ancestors ran as a strategy.
It was between two millionyears ago and one million years
ago when our ancestors startedtraveling in small groups and
(29:21):
establishing tribes andestablishing small villages.
In order to get food for thetribe, they staged hunts and
they would literally run downgame, and this has been verified
in primitive peoples around theworld.
They would go out on the planelooking for dinner.
(29:46):
They'd sight an animal theywanted, they jog a little and
spook it and it would run, andthen it would stop when he
couldn't see our ancestors, andso the ancestors would creep up
on them, stalk them, run alittle bit and then walk run a
(30:07):
little bit walk, run, a littlebit walk And hours into the hunt
the animal that doesn't havesweat glands goes into heat,
exhaustion keels over and dinneris served.
But during that period of 2million to 1 million years ago
the human brain developedbasically to what it is today,
and it was due to all thechallenges on these hunts and
(30:31):
other things.
So I'm very pleased that Run,walk, run is cited as a way that
the brains were developed forour betterment.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
We go from ancestors going to run down their dinner
tour Us were running toStarbucks for our post-run
refreshment.
But I find it interesting, justas important, but I find it
interesting that in theprimitive times the run was not
the primary focus, the walk was,and with Run, walk, run.
I know we hear a lot and I feellike one of the biggest
(31:03):
questions we personally get ascoaches is why the 30-second
walk?
Why is that kind of that happyplace?
So, going from the primitivewhere walking was the primary,
to where now being more focusedon that 30-second walk, i'd love
to kind of hear a little bitmore about the thought process
(31:26):
from the man himself of why 30seconds.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
It's all based on data.
Early on, we used a wholevariety of walk breaks in terms
of duration, length of run,length of walk, whatever And
then, as we evolved, we weredefinitely finding that shorter
(31:51):
runs, done more frequently,would produce faster times,
fewer injuries and lessexhaustion.
So about 10 years ago I had aseries of encounters with my
E-coach clients the clients thatI coached by email.
They were having variousproblems, some of them I had
(32:16):
encountered before and some ofthem were relatively new.
So I tried experimenting onthese folks there were more than
two dozen with various forms ofrunning and walking, to see if
that would do any good.
And it did.
It definitely turned thingsaround, but I had to keep
(32:38):
innovating with most of them Andas a result of that individual
experience I started to come upwith formats that really seemed
to make sense in reducinginjuries and exhaustion at the
same time and producing fastertimes.
So we parlayed the researchthen out into some of our
(33:00):
training programs And, as aresult of having Several hundred
people then do it and thenseveral thousand people try
shorter amounts of walking, wecame up with 30 seconds, even
though we had tried variousamounts of time walking 45
(33:23):
seconds, a minute, two minutes,whatever.
We came up with 30 seconds asproviding the maximum benefit
from a walk break, and whenpeople walked longer than that,
we saw a tendency to actuallyslow down during the second half
of long runs.
And here's the clincher Itbecomes harder and harder to
(33:46):
restart again after taking awalk break with a minute, but
with 30 seconds it was mucheasier to restart, even when
runners were very, very tired.
It's all based on numbers andwe had probably about 10,000
people in the research thatbrought about the 30 second as a
(34:09):
walk break.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
So see everybody, we may say it, we may tell you, but
now it's inarguable, you can'tgo against the man who created
it.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
So science It's not that he just necessarily created
it and threw it into a pot andsaid here you go, dinner served.
He quite literally like, testedthis recipe out for a myriad of
years to all of certain types ofrunners, and it is the best.
I mean, i know that mepersonally, using the taking
more frequent and 30 seconds,was not just optimal for my best
(34:44):
, for feeling my best, but alsooptimal in terms of my running
and going the distance, quiteliterally.
So I love that you brought thatup, coach, because I do think
there is a question of that infor folks that maybe aren't
necessarily doing thetraditional run walk run that
Jeff Galloway created, but theymay be kind of doing a 10 minute
run and then a two minute walk,and then they report back, as
(35:06):
just Jeff said, that they feellike those walks are so hard
after they do that two minutewalk to get back into their run.
Well, it's because that 30seconds and taking those more
frequently really does help.
So that again, i do want tocall awareness to your app in
that regards, jeff, because I doknow that you have your magic
mile, which helps folks developwhat is the right, and I love,
(35:28):
though, that, although you havea magic mile, you still get
folks options to try differentrun walk run strategies for them
, and within your app you havethat ability as well to test the
magic mile and then thosesuggested run walk runs that can
get programmed into theirfuture training runs, which I
think is phenomenal.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
We did further research and showing the
benefits in improved times andraces.
For example, our key distance ofa race was the half marathon
And we found that when peoplemoved from running two minutes,
walking one minute to 60 30,there was an average of a little
(36:09):
more than a four minute timeimprovement from that one change
, just simply changing up therun, walk, run.
It was the same amount ofrunning and walking overall, but
it was just shorter amounts ofrunning and walking produce
faster times.
But I do want to also say that,yes, we encourage people
(36:34):
experimenting and we even havein our training programs a
segment on Tuesday in which youtry out various run, walk, run
segments every Tuesday to seewhich one works better.
And you'll be surprised.
Most of my eco clients willfiddle with little amounts of
(36:56):
running and walking additionallyor less, and find out with some
real quirky ratios such as 18seconds run and 12 and a half
seconds of walking.
You know it's really bizarresome of the things that I hear,
but it's all about what worksfor you And that's what we want
(37:17):
you to do experiment and findout.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Going back to hey, running.
Running is available for all,but it's the way you apply that
running doesn't necessarily haveto be the same as somewhere
else.
So I love the, i love littlerunning roulette.
Tuesday.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
I think that's a good .
I like that term.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Yeah, and I love it.
again, going back to what youoriginally said, it's about
empowering the runner.
So you have this knowledge, youknow the science that works,
but that doesn't necessarilymean that it's what works for
every single person.
So empowering that individualto find the method or the
strategy that works best forthem, that's so much fun as well
, because we can kind of changethings up and look forward to
(37:58):
Tuesdays to see what you'regoing to try on that day.
So, with that said, what aresome of the obstacles that, in
your years of coaching yourclients, you have found that
maybe most people do encounteralong their running journey?
Speaker 3 (38:17):
One of the hardest things to for people to wrap
their minds around is the brain,the actual use of what part of
the brain.
Two brain operating systems.
One is the ancient subconsciousbrain and the other one is the
(38:37):
human brain.
The ancient subconscious reflexbrain is very formidable.
It has a million times theoperating capacity compared with
our poor, little, smaller humanbrain.
But the human brain is morepowerful.
If you turn on the human brainit will override the
(38:58):
subconscious brain.
And this is important formotivation, because if most of
the runners that I've workedwith that have had problems
motivational problems during arun started out too fast And the
reason they did that is theyjust started putting one foot in
(39:19):
front of the other And whatthat did is turn on the ancient
subconscious brain.
Well, once you do that and youput the subconscious brain in
control of whatever it is thatyou're doing, at some point the
stress is going to be buildingup, and it's not just the stress
of running, but you've gotmaybe some stress in your life.
(39:43):
The temperature is rising andyou've got a goal for that day
or for the week or for theseason or whatever, and the sum
total of all that stress if thesubconscious brain is in control
will trigger the release of,first, anxiety hormones so that
(40:03):
you start to feel less motivatedthan you did when you started
your run.
And then, if you persist underthe control of the subconscious
brain, that subconscious brainstarts dumping negative hormones
so that you want to quit andyou just don't feel motivated at
all.
The antidote to that is havingcognitive strategies.
(40:25):
I've got a lot of them on theapp and particularly in my
mental training book.
But once you enact a cognitivestrategy you turn on your human
brain that overrides thesubconscious brain and stops the
flow of the negative hormonesAnd within a few minutes you
(40:46):
start to feel better And then afew minutes later you start to
feel empowered again.
As long as you keep thosecognitive strategies going.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
I feel like this is like I know.
I feel like I understand somuch more now because
Christine's like always, alwaysour science person.
She always is spewing it andI'm like it all makes sense now
And then it would be here.
I'm the five year old beinglike I see our brain with two
different sides, with boxinggloves, like this is how our
brains work.
(41:19):
It's the same but different.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
Well, i love.
I love how you call theprimitive brain.
I have tended to now when I'mworking with folks is to call it
the inner toddler And thatinner toddler wants what it
wants and it usually wants to becomforted and it wants to do
whatever is like the path ofleast resistance, thank you.
So that's where we have to turnon that, maybe the more adult
version of our brain, the higherbrain, so it's.
(41:41):
It's definitely such a greatstrategy with using those
cognitive techniques.
And I know that this goes backto one of your drills, the
cadence drill, and I literallyuse this every summer.
Summer is a very hard time forme to train because of how hot
it gets down here in thesoutheast and humid, and when I
start getting those longer miles, if I feel that primitive, that
(42:02):
inner toddler part of my brainis, you know, basically wants me
to stop and go get popsicleswhich it probably still will get
popsicles at some point.
But I start using those cadencedrills.
So I love that you remind folksthat again you've got resources
, not just in the app, not onjust your website.
I personally own quite a few ofyour books.
I do not have your mindset bookAnd I can guarantee you that
(42:25):
that is going into my shoppingcart as soon as we're done
recording.
So thank you for sharing thosetips, and I love that it feels
as folks are if they're rollingthrough on their long run.
At some point in your long runyou probably have felt exactly
what Jeff is talking about.
So knowing that it is somethingthat you can kind of employ
tactics and techniques toovercome is such a beneficial
(42:47):
way of approaching it.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
Yeah, the cadence drill is a real simple, quick
fix because whenever you startcounting to monitor your cadence
you will turn on your humanbrain.
So at least for a while you'regoing to turn off the ancient
subconscious brain and stopthose negative hormones.
But the cadence drill does morethan that.
(43:11):
It'll make your stride smoother, your running form more easy
And you'll have the benefit ofthat on all long runs.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
Absolutely So.
With that said, i know that youdo have some suggestions for
folks that they incorporatesuggestions is probably a light
way of saying it, but cadencedrills, acceleration gliders for
folks that are new or beenpracticing run walk run for a
long time still great to bringit back to those basics of those
cadence drills and getting themost out of those glides, of
(43:44):
gliding in and out of those runwalk runs to again keep them
rolling smoothly.
And again, these are thingsthat folks can find those
resources on your website and inyour app.
Jeff, i think it's very, veryevident how much I am just such
a huge fan of yours And I wantto take a second to thank you,
not just for changing thisentire sport and making this
(44:06):
community so diverse andinclusive, but also just for
truly being such a down to earthindividual who is willing to
speak to us.
So thank you very much foreverything you've done for us.
Pleased to do it.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
Y'all are doing a great job, and I just want to
support your efforts.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Well, with that said, friends, I'm going to have all
of these links in our episodenotes so that you guys can get
connected with Jeff, the manhimself, And we definitely want
to encourage you all.
if you haven't yet been trying,run, walk, run.
this is your time to just giveit a try.
Maybe give it a try TuesdayWhat did you call it, coach?
Running roulette Tuesday I'mgoing to coin that one.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
Okay, sounds good, that's a new one.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
That's great.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
Well, great job everybody.
Give yourself a high five, makesure that you rehydrate and
re-fuel with some of your brunchclassic favorites And, while
you're recovering and resetting,we'd appreciate if you take the
time to subscribe and rate timefor brunch wherever you listen
to us on again, connect withJeff, and you're definitely
going to have lots of thesepositive, uplifting messages
coming your way If you startfollowing him on all of his
(45:12):
social media platforms orsubscribing to his newsletter.
We want to thank you guys forjoining us and we're going to
see you again when it's time forbrunch, where we continue to
serve up more miles with a sideof smiles.
Hey friends, coach Shelby and Coach Christine,
welcoming you in and letting youknow it's time for brunch,
where there is always an opentable, a hot cup of coffee, an
endless running fun to keep youmoving and grooving.
So, wherever you're at, we wantyou to put a smile on your face
.
If you're going to be loggingthose miles, lace up those shoes
(00:23):
and let's go for it.
Because today, welcoming to thebrunch table, we have a legend
and we're not embellishing here.
It is a true legend, not justin the running world but also in
the world of coaching.
And I have to say CoachChristine and I did both a
little bit of healthy geekingout before welcoming on this
(00:44):
guest.
So I'm not going to beat on theground the bush, but today on
brunch we are honored andexcited to have Olympian running
coach the one the only Mr JeffGalloway joining us.
And Christine, i know you are abig Jeffer.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
I am.
I have shared my story of how Icame to explore the Run, walk,
run and, jeff I'm sure I don'tknow if you recall me telling
you the story.
I'm sure it's like very manypeople I found somebody that was
running that when I was runninga race and they looked fresh as
a daisy at the end when Iwanted to basically die.
So I figured it was definitelysomething to look into.
(01:22):
And then I had the privilege ofactually running a local race
with you and thought there'ssomething to this method.
It makes me feel great and I'veactually feel like I get
stronger in my seasons, versuswearing down from season to
season.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Absolutely.
It has so many benefits and Imust admit, when I first started
teaching this back in 1974 Ididn't realize but just the tip
of the iceberg, but it everyweek there's someone that has
some type of a unique benefit tothem.
(02:00):
And this is what it's about.
It's finding ways to give youthe power and the motivation to
be able to do what you want to.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Well, with that said, let's take it on back because,
as we mentioned definitely arunning legend We have an
Olympian officially coached.
Shelby's all about the elite.
It's something that makes herheart like absolutely super
ecstatic.
So how did you get started inthis wonderful running sport?
Speaker 3 (02:31):
I was a very lazy and out of shape kid.
My dad had been in the Navy andI had gone to 13 schools my
first seven years.
The 14th school, requiredmandatory athletics after school
for boys and I didn't have anyskills.
(02:54):
I floundered around the firstquarter and during the winter
quarter I had been hanging outwith a number of guys that were
on the cross country team.
Now I didn't really getinvolved immediately with them,
but they dragged me out duringthe winter quarter, promising
(03:17):
that there were some trails inthe woods that I could hide out
in.
I really didn't have to workout, but I got out there and it
was so tough the first few daysthat I really wanted to give up.
But after that third day Istarted receiving so many brain
(03:40):
benefits that are now quite wellrecognized in the research that
come uniquely from running, andI didn't want that to go away.
But I wasn't very good.
It wasn't until my senior year,five years later, that I was
able to qualify to get into thestate championships in my state,
(04:02):
georgia, which wasn't thatgreat a state anyway And so I
very slowly worked my way up.
But I guess what really kept megoing were friendships.
To this day.
Some of my best friends are theones that I met those first
(04:23):
years, and all of my reallyclose friends are runners.
It's a bonding type thing andit really pulled me through some
very difficult situations in mylife.
But the other thing that wasincredibly powerful is how an
(04:44):
individual run can turn yourattitude around.
It can give you energy when youdidn't have energy before And
to give you the strength toconfront challenges that you
wouldn't confront otherwise, andit just it changes your life.
I hear this from people everysingle week and at the Disney
(05:06):
races I hear from well over 2000individuals who tell me ways
that they've been able toimprove their lives as a result
of having gotten into the methodof run, walk run, and the
crucial factor that theydivulged to me is that there's
(05:26):
no way that they would have evergotten into running unless they
found run, walk run.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Which is so true, and I know we're going to go
through all of that greatness,but I find it really interesting
.
I would assume, having movingaround a lot, especially when
you're a kid, it's hard to makefriends and have that connection
because you are there for ashort amount of times.
I mean, 14 schools in sevenyears, that's not a great
(05:54):
average.
So I love, though, that youwere able to kind of find that
community and obviously we doknow the rest of the story, that
it's obviously created a lot ofcommunities thereafter, but it
really, i think, is a testamentto runners in general, to where
(06:14):
it is its own little built incommunity.
You just kind of like the rightrunning shoe.
You just have to find the rightone that fits for you.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
Well, you're absolutely right.
In my case, i was the new kidin class at 14 different schools
and I found it very difficultto meet friends.
I really didn't have many closefriends because we were moving
so quickly, and then, within acouple of months of hanging out
(06:46):
with the cross country runners,i had a whole team of good
friendships.
I mean, it was a bonding thing.
That was incredible for me AndI discovered, as I moved through
the rest of my life and throughnow, dozens and dozens of
running groups, of what apowerful thing this is in our
(07:11):
sport and our activity thatrunners naturally bond together
through running.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Must be a sweat.
I'm going to go with that.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Whatever?
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Well, jeff's a little bit of a brain science geek as
well, so I bet you he's got afew research papers that he
could pull out and let us knowexactly what that bonding
experience is.
But what comes to mind, jeff,as I'm hearing you talk as well,
i mean emotion.
You're like, literally I feelall of the emotions of what
you're describing, because thisis such a beautiful bonding
experience.
And also Coach Shelby and Ihave been talking about how the
(07:43):
US Surgeon General has come outwith.
The latest epidemic that'sreally affecting folks is
loneliness, and I feel likerunning is that cure.
Or moving and run, walk, run,helping to minimize that
threshold where so many peopleare so overwhelmed by the
thought of going out and goingfor a run, and I feel like run,
walk, run is really there to beable to help to lower that
(08:04):
barrier or completely throw thatbarrier out the door.
So let's talk a little bitabout that, because you have an
illustrious career.
You have the US World Recordholder US holder for the 10
miler, i mean, which I alwaysblows my mind, coach Shelby,
whenever he hit like the 10 mileI think I'm still probably in
(08:24):
the first three or four miles ofmy 10 mile run whenever he's
actually officially done.
But still so, you, you have anillustrious career.
You did translate that intocoaching.
Where did run, walk, run comeinto play for you.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Well, where I made my shift.
I had originally decided to goto graduate school to become a
teacher, which I did, and Itaught for a year in a classroom
, but it wasn't fulfilling forme in a number of different ways
(08:59):
, and so I started at the end ofthat first year looking for
ways that I could teach, but notnecessarily in the classroom,
and I decided because a friendof mine was involved in the
early years of Nike and he hadactually opened up a Nike store
(09:23):
I decided I didn't really wantan all sports store, i wanted a
running store.
Now it wasn't a smart movebecause there weren't enough
runners at the time to make asuccessful business.
So when I opened my store whichwas the first running specialty
store in the United States andprobably in the universe,
(09:47):
because it wasn't profitable andnobody else was doing it But I
realized that I had to do someother things to keep the store
afloat financially.
And when a customer came in whoorganized classes for the
general public and invited me toteach classes and beginning
(10:11):
running, i jumped at thatopportunity.
I immediately discovered, withbeginning runners who I'd never
worked with before, that I hadto change things up from nonstop
running And so I used a verysimple version of Run While Run
(10:36):
and that is the Huff and Puffindicator.
So I ran with each one of thethree groups in my group, my
first class of 22.
And I would listen for theHuffing and Puffing.
As soon as somebody startedbreathing heavily, we walked,
(10:57):
and so during the first sessionof 10 weeks I was very pleased
to see that every single personof the 22 at the end of 10 weeks
finished either a 5K or 10K.
But what really blew my mind isthat there were no injuries,
and I realized right off the batthat it had to be due to the
(11:20):
insertion of the walk brakesright early on in every single
run, and indeed that is what wehave found over the years.
We now have more than 500,000folks who have reported in
success from using the method,and that is the database that I
(11:41):
have used to set the ratios andto set up other things that we
use in the program.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
And it truly is.
I mean no blowing steamanywhere.
It is truly a game changer.
Whether you are a beginningrunner, a seasoned runner,
wherever you're at in therunning journey, it truly is a
breath of fresh air.
And I always have to ask thisquestion When something like
(12:09):
this becomes such a pivotal partof an industry, when you were
doing this and realizing themagic, did you know then that
that could really be somethingspecial and to grow from, Or
were you just excited that atthat moment, everybody was
injury free?
Speaker 3 (12:30):
Well, certainly, staying injury free was very
unusual during the 70s, when Istarted using the method.
Almost every runner wouldcomplain about some significant
injury that they had had orcurrently had, and I wanted to
do away with that.
That certainly was a missionthat I had right from the very
(12:53):
beginning, but what was reallyeven more exciting to me is that
this method became a way ofgaining control over the running
process, that you didn't haveto just go put one foot in front
of the other until you're hurtor were exhausted, that you had
(13:15):
liberation from those two things, and I started collecting data
right from the very beginning,and that really what has driven
our ability to tell almostanyone, at almost any pace, what
they can use for running andwalking.
I even ran my very fastestmarathon when I was 35 years old
(13:39):
using Run, walk Run.
It was in the Houston marathon,and I ran a 216 marathon and
improved two full minutes, whichwas a huge improvement at that
level, and I'm totally convincedthat it had to be the insertion
of the walk brakes And, in mycase, what I used in that one is
(14:03):
from the beginning, i wouldwalk through each water stop,
and the water stops were everytwo miles, but that did the
trick.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
I love that.
I love that, first of all, thefact that you were able to have
a personal best when you've beenrunning for such a long time,
and it was really just theintroduction of this methodology
that helped to make that happen.
And I think we could say thatwith pretty much 100% certainty,
because we do know that thegains that we have as runners
(14:35):
kind of become a little bit Iwon't say they're diminishing,
but we don't necessarily havethe opportunity to really get
those PRs after a couple ofdecades worth of running.
Or maybe we can PR our agegroup, but not necessarily back
to when we originally startedrunning.
So that's incredible, jeff.
So you yourself have had greatsuccess.
not to mention, as you said,you have changed the running
(14:56):
community on its head, because Ithink that once upon a time
there was a belief that if youweren't straight running from
start to finish, if you weren'tin absolute agony, if you didn't
want to hate the experience,then you weren't considered a
quote unquote real runner.
And now we have much moreacceptance of making this a
(15:19):
lifelong pursuit that keeps ushappy both on the run and
afterwards.
So thank you again for makingthat happen.
What do you say to people whodo still resist the Galloway
method, though.
Speaker 3 (15:33):
Oh, I tell them that they have every right to
determine how they run.
Running is a freeform activity,and the people that I used to
have trouble with would come upto me and say, well, you're not
supposed to walk.
I mean, running is running andthat's what you do.
(15:54):
And so my comment to them is oh, so you have the rule book.
I haven't seen the rule bookabout running, could you?
please show that written down tome in the rule book.
And this is the most attractivething that people tell me about
running There is no rule book.
You determine the rules, you'rein charge of this whole thing.
(16:17):
It's a very empoweringexperience to be in charge of
something that turns on the goodattitude circuit, the
empowerment circuit and theenergy circuit in your brain to
make you feel better.
But the whole bottom line withrunning is that you can do it
the way you want to And I'm allin favor of people that get
(16:41):
enjoyment out of running nonstop.
Go for it.
Sadly, most of those folks endup dropping out of running if
they persist and not wanting toever take a walk break.
So I want people to run untilthey're 100 and continue to get
those wonderful mental benefits.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
I think that's a really important point.
I'm going to say that probablyat least 15 more times
throughout this entire reporting, But you hit the nail on the
head is so many people drop outand drop off of running And I
would I'm going to go out on thelimb here and say most runners,
if not probably all runners ifyou gave them the option between
PRing for X amount of years orbeing able to run long term, I'd
(17:25):
say most of them are going topick running long term.
And I knew I liked you, but thesarcasm with the rule book I
mean you just.
you just even went up a coupleof notches, if that's even
possible, because sarcasm is mysecond language, but still done
in such a very polite way.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Absolutely.
Oh, my goodness.
Well, jeff, i again, i lovethis so much I love I want to
take it back and kind ofreiterate the point that you
discussed the empowerment thatwe get from running, and that is
ultimately, yes, running longterm, all of the incredible
benefits, but the fact that wecan empower ourselves in such a
beautiful way, because life canhand us a lot of lemons and
(18:05):
sometimes the best way to makelemonade is to lace up those
shoes and get out there.
So let's definitely talk a bitmore about some of that.
You've mentioned you've touchedon it, on some of the brain
science, but I know again,because I'm a little bit of a
brain science geek, i know thatyou are a little bit of a brain
science geek that can you giveus more about some of the
research that you've shown with,specifically, run, walk, run
(18:29):
and helping to really maximizethose really good feeling
benefits, not just for ourphysicality but also our mental
status?
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Absolutely Well.
Several years ago, when I wasgiven the assignment to write my
book Mental Training, I knew ofa number of mental training
techniques that I had used inthe Olympics and a lot of
challenging situations, but Ihad no idea why they worked.
So I took six months off andpoured through the research and
(19:01):
there were a lot of conflictingideas about what was actually
going on in the brain.
But I came upon some amazingsources and one of them, for
example, that I continue to usealmost every day is a book
called Spark.
It's written by aneuroscientist and psychiatrist,
(19:23):
john Rady.
It is a fantastic compiling ofthe research studies on how
exercise changes your brain andrunning as cited as the activity
in exercise that elevates thosechanges to the highest level.
(19:43):
And just to summarize verybriefly the category of benefits
exercise in general, butrunning to the highest level
turns on important braincircuits that can change the way
you feel and the way you think.
The circuit that is sort ofnicknamed the good attitude
(20:07):
circuit is turned on.
This is why you can start notfeeling so good about life And
by the time you finish your runyou are bubbly and excited and
you feel good.
Same is true with energy.
You can start a run saying I'mnot going to be able to go more
than a mile today And you end upgoing 10 or 12 miles and feel
(20:29):
better at the end than you feltall day long.
And the empowerment circuit is.
Most people will cite it asbeing the most important for
them because it's enabled themto overcome extremely
challenging situations in lifewhere they felt down and out And
(20:49):
through a series of runs, theypulled themselves out of it
because they were turning onthis empowerment circuit in the
brain.
The research went further, in myview, in other sources, showing
how these brain circuits weredeveloped over millions of years
(21:10):
as our ancestors were trying tokeep moving to find food.
And we are the beneficiary ofevolution of the brain in these
circuits, which enabled ourancestors, when they thought
that they couldn't go anotherstep, to keep going and going
(21:32):
and going.
And when we get out on a run,we pull off the strength that
they have given us and empowerus as a result of it.
The other area which isextremely interesting and is
identified in another stellarbook called the story of the
(21:54):
human body by an evolutionarybiologist from Harvard, is that,
through forward motion,exercise and then having some
running types of experiences.
Through our six million years ofhistory as human beings, a very
(22:17):
important part of the brain wasdeveloped called the
hippocampus, and that is thecenter for learning, for memory
and for new growth of braincells.
Research shows that when yourun you stimulate the production
of a hormone called BDNF,brain-derived neurotrophic
(22:37):
factor, and the scientists callit miracle growth for the brain,
because what it does is itstimulates new growth of brain
cells.
One study recently showed morethan a hundred thousand new
brain cells in three days ofrunning.
But the other exciting thingabout this hormone is it not
(22:59):
only stimulates that the newstem cells, it brings them into
the parts of the brain that neednew brain cells and puts them
to work so that they staypermanent.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
So you actually grow your brain by continuing to run
so see, grows your calf muscles,grows your glutes and grows
your brain.
I mean, what more can we reallyask for from one activity in
confidence and social circle.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
I feel like I am.
I'm at church, like I'm gettingto hear all of the wonderful
things of why we love what we do, and I do want to go ahead and
let folks know.
If you are rolling through hereon your run, or maybe you are
listening when you're in the carand you feel like you too are
going to church and you'reyou're like, absolutely Jeff,
amen.
Well, friends, you can alsohead over and see Jeff in person
(23:48):
, because he has an incredibleretreat coming up here in June
in Blue Mountain Beach, florida,but also in August.
So if you haven't, you need tohead over to his website,
jeffgallowaycom.
Check out, first of all, packedwith breeze horses.
Coach Shelby and I personallyactually go here quite often
because, again, jeff is, as youcan tell, very passionate about
(24:09):
what he does.
He is not a gatekeeper.
He wants to share his knowledgewith folks freely.
The thing is is that it's justalmost impossible to capture all
of his knowledge, especiallyjust a one podcast episode.
So you can check him out at theretreat for sure.
I'll have that informationlinked in episode notes as well,
but you've got so many excitingthings going on, jeff, to
continue espousing how wonderfulRun Walk Run is including your
(24:30):
app that you now have on bothiOS and Android absolutely,
we're very pleased, and my son,weston, took this son as a
project.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
It's a major project and it took quite a while to put
all the pieces together, but itis truly the best running app
that you're ever going to find.
It not only has runningtraining programs and resources
on motivation when you are lowand what to do about fluids and
(25:05):
all this stuff, but it hasnutritional resources too that
were put together by ourregistered dietician, who is
Carissa Galloway.
She's also a key announcer forthe Disney events, but she a lot
of people don't realize it, butshe finished first in her class
(25:25):
for her nutrition degree.
She is really knowledgeable andreally does a fantastic job
with the content in nutritionabsolutely she is such a ray too
.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
I will say she made those early morning wake-ups a
little bit more manageable atRun Disney.
I still think her Daisy Duckcostume was my favorite from
springtime surprise weekend.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
I do what I do when I was a great one how early does
Carissa have to get up?
because of course she alwayshas great costumes and I feel
like if we're there at fouro'clock three o'clock in the
morning she must be up at oneo'clock.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
If not, she even get to go to bed during run Disney
weekends well, she is very sleepdeprived during Disney weekends
, but but she has to get outthere.
Yeah, she, she gets up aboutone and she has to be out there
by two to two thirty and they gothrough rehearsals.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Of course she has all the makeup and and wardrobe and
stuff and and yet she gets outthere and is as bubbly as you'll
ever find anybody in themorning amazing oh, it's also
those benefits as brainchemicals of all the incredible
running that she's able toharness for those early morning
wake-ups, which again goes backto why this is such a great
(26:43):
methodology.
So I do want to continuetouching on the fact, like you
said, running for the long game,and how run walk run does help
to diminish the chances forinjury because, as you mentioned
earlier on, this is ahigh-impact sport.
It does generally come with alarge fallout, if you will, of
folks that do get injured.
(27:05):
If not even in the firstportion of when they start
training, at some part of theirtraining they could have some
injuries happen.
So, with knowing that run walkhelps to diminish those benefit,
those possibilities, and helpsto have the benefit of
continuing to run stronger, doyou find that that's also why we
see folks being able tocontinue getting personal best
(27:26):
and getting stronger becausethey can stay consistent with
their running versus having totake large swaths of time off to
recover?
Speaker 3 (27:33):
that is certainly one of the major ways that we
improve by not simply notgetting injured and a lot of our
runners never run a singlespeed workout and keep improving
because they don't get injuredand the body is programmed to
get better as you continue to doan activity like running.
(27:54):
But get getting back to thefoundation of why this situation
works and why non-stop runningultimately ultimately does not
work.
It goes back to our heritage,in that the researchers, the
anthropologists that studyancient man, believed that our
(28:16):
ancestors did very littlerunning.
They did run, but they mostlywalked, and they walked tens of
thousands of miles, sometimes ona single track.
It was just finding food,because the main reason for
death in our species until veryrecently has been starvation.
(28:38):
So our ancestors had it tough.
They had to keep moving to findfood and they did, and they
bequeathed us with amazingendurance and sweat glands and
all these things that enable usto keep going when we are
stressed, the brain benefitsbeing the highest level of all
(28:59):
those things.
But there was a period, cited bythe anthropologists, when our
ancestors ran as a strategy.
It was between two millionyears ago and one million years
ago when our ancestors startedtraveling in small groups and
(29:21):
establishing tribes andestablishing small villages.
In order to get food for thetribe, they staged hunts and
they would literally run downgame, and this has been verified
in primitive peoples around theworld.
They would go out on the planelooking for dinner.
(29:46):
They'd sight an animal theywanted, they jog a little and
spook it and it would run, andthen it would stop when he
couldn't see our ancestors, andso the ancestors would creep up
on them, stalk them, run alittle bit and then walk run a
(30:07):
little bit walk, run, a littlebit walk And hours into the hunt
the animal that doesn't havesweat glands goes into heat,
exhaustion keels over and dinneris served.
But during that period of 2million to 1 million years ago
the human brain developedbasically to what it is today,
and it was due to all thechallenges on these hunts and
(30:31):
other things.
So I'm very pleased that Run,walk, run is cited as a way that
the brains were developed forour betterment.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
We go from ancestors going to run down their dinner
tour Us were running toStarbucks for our post-run
refreshment.
But I find it interesting, justas important, but I find it
interesting that in theprimitive times the run was not
the primary focus, the walk was,and with Run, walk, run.
I know we hear a lot and I feellike one of the biggest
(31:03):
questions we personally get ascoaches is why the 30-second
walk?
Why is that kind of that happyplace?
So, going from the primitivewhere walking was the primary,
to where now being more focusedon that 30-second walk, i'd love
to kind of hear a little bitmore about the thought process
(31:26):
from the man himself of why 30seconds.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
It's all based on data.
Early on, we used a wholevariety of walk breaks in terms
of duration, length of run,length of walk, whatever And
then, as we evolved, we weredefinitely finding that shorter
(31:51):
runs, done more frequently,would produce faster times,
fewer injuries and lessexhaustion.
So about 10 years ago I had aseries of encounters with my
E-coach clients the clients thatI coached by email.
They were having variousproblems, some of them I had
(32:16):
encountered before and some ofthem were relatively new.
So I tried experimenting onthese folks there were more than
two dozen with various forms ofrunning and walking, to see if
that would do any good.
And it did.
It definitely turned thingsaround, but I had to keep
(32:38):
innovating with most of them Andas a result of that individual
experience I started to come upwith formats that really seemed
to make sense in reducinginjuries and exhaustion at the
same time and producing fastertimes.
So we parlayed the researchthen out into some of our
(33:00):
training programs And, as aresult of having Several hundred
people then do it and thenseveral thousand people try
shorter amounts of walking, wecame up with 30 seconds, even
though we had tried variousamounts of time walking 45
(33:23):
seconds, a minute, two minutes,whatever.
We came up with 30 seconds asproviding the maximum benefit
from a walk break, and whenpeople walked longer than that,
we saw a tendency to actuallyslow down during the second half
of long runs.
And here's the clincher Itbecomes harder and harder to
(33:46):
restart again after taking awalk break with a minute, but
with 30 seconds it was mucheasier to restart, even when
runners were very, very tired.
It's all based on numbers andwe had probably about 10,000
people in the research thatbrought about the 30 second as a
(34:09):
walk break.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
So see everybody, we may say it, we may tell you, but
now it's inarguable, you can'tgo against the man who created
it.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
So science It's not that he just necessarily created
it and threw it into a pot andsaid here you go, dinner served.
He quite literally like, testedthis recipe out for a myriad of
years to all of certain types ofrunners, and it is the best.
I mean, i know that mepersonally, using the taking
more frequent and 30 seconds,was not just optimal for my best
(34:44):
, for feeling my best, but alsooptimal in terms of my running
and going the distance, quiteliterally.
So I love that you brought thatup, coach, because I do think
there is a question of that infor folks that maybe aren't
necessarily doing thetraditional run walk run that
Jeff Galloway created, but theymay be kind of doing a 10 minute
run and then a two minute walk,and then they report back, as
(35:06):
just Jeff said, that they feellike those walks are so hard
after they do that two minutewalk to get back into their run.
Well, it's because that 30seconds and taking those more
frequently really does help.
So that again, i do want tocall awareness to your app in
that regards, jeff, because I doknow that you have your magic
mile, which helps folks developwhat is the right, and I love,
(35:28):
though, that, although you havea magic mile, you still get
folks options to try differentrun walk run strategies for them
, and within your app you havethat ability as well to test the
magic mile and then thosesuggested run walk runs that can
get programmed into theirfuture training runs, which I
think is phenomenal.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
We did further research and showing the
benefits in improved times andraces.
For example, our key distance ofa race was the half marathon
And we found that when peoplemoved from running two minutes,
walking one minute to 60 30,there was an average of a little
(36:09):
more than a four minute timeimprovement from that one change
, just simply changing up therun, walk, run.
It was the same amount ofrunning and walking overall, but
it was just shorter amounts ofrunning and walking produce
faster times.
But I do want to also say that,yes, we encourage people
(36:34):
experimenting and we even havein our training programs a
segment on Tuesday in which youtry out various run, walk, run
segments every Tuesday to seewhich one works better.
And you'll be surprised.
Most of my eco clients willfiddle with little amounts of
(36:56):
running and walking additionallyor less, and find out with some
real quirky ratios such as 18seconds run and 12 and a half
seconds of walking.
You know it's really bizarresome of the things that I hear,
but it's all about what worksfor you And that's what we want
(37:17):
you to do experiment and findout.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Going back to hey, running.
Running is available for all,but it's the way you apply that
running doesn't necessarily haveto be the same as somewhere
else.
So I love the, i love littlerunning roulette.
Tuesday.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
I think that's a good .
I like that term.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
Yeah, and I love it.
again, going back to what youoriginally said, it's about
empowering the runner.
So you have this knowledge, youknow the science that works,
but that doesn't necessarilymean that it's what works for
every single person.
So empowering that individualto find the method or the
strategy that works best forthem, that's so much fun as well
, because we can kind of changethings up and look forward to
(37:58):
Tuesdays to see what you'regoing to try on that day.
So, with that said, what aresome of the obstacles that, in
your years of coaching yourclients, you have found that
maybe most people do encounteralong their running journey?
Speaker 3 (38:17):
One of the hardest things to for people to wrap
their minds around is the brain,the actual use of what part of
the brain.
Two brain operating systems.
One is the ancient subconsciousbrain and the other one is the
(38:37):
human brain.
The ancient subconscious reflexbrain is very formidable.
It has a million times theoperating capacity compared with
our poor, little, smaller humanbrain.
But the human brain is morepowerful.
If you turn on the human brainit will override the
(38:58):
subconscious brain.
And this is important formotivation, because if most of
the runners that I've workedwith that have had problems
motivational problems during arun started out too fast And the
reason they did that is theyjust started putting one foot in
(39:19):
front of the other And whatthat did is turn on the ancient
subconscious brain.
Well, once you do that and youput the subconscious brain in
control of whatever it is thatyou're doing, at some point the
stress is going to be buildingup, and it's not just the stress
of running, but you've gotmaybe some stress in your life.
(39:43):
The temperature is rising andyou've got a goal for that day
or for the week or for theseason or whatever, and the sum
total of all that stress if thesubconscious brain is in control
will trigger the release of,first, anxiety hormones so that
(40:03):
you start to feel less motivatedthan you did when you started
your run.
And then, if you persist underthe control of the subconscious
brain, that subconscious brainstarts dumping negative hormones
so that you want to quit andyou just don't feel motivated at
all.
The antidote to that is havingcognitive strategies.
(40:25):
I've got a lot of them on theapp and particularly in my
mental training book.
But once you enact a cognitivestrategy you turn on your human
brain that overrides thesubconscious brain and stops the
flow of the negative hormonesAnd within a few minutes you
(40:46):
start to feel better And then afew minutes later you start to
feel empowered again.
As long as you keep thosecognitive strategies going.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
I feel like this is like I know.
I feel like I understand somuch more now because
Christine's like always, alwaysour science person.
She always is spewing it andI'm like it all makes sense now
And then it would be here.
I'm the five year old beinglike I see our brain with two
different sides, with boxinggloves, like this is how our
brains work.
(41:19):
It's the same but different.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
Well, i love.
I love how you call theprimitive brain.
I have tended to now when I'mworking with folks is to call it
the inner toddler And thatinner toddler wants what it
wants and it usually wants to becomforted and it wants to do
whatever is like the path ofleast resistance, thank you.
So that's where we have to turnon that, maybe the more adult
version of our brain, the higherbrain, so it's.
(41:41):
It's definitely such a greatstrategy with using those
cognitive techniques.
And I know that this goes backto one of your drills, the
cadence drill, and I literallyuse this every summer.
Summer is a very hard time forme to train because of how hot
it gets down here in thesoutheast and humid, and when I
start getting those longer miles, if I feel that primitive, that
(42:02):
inner toddler part of my brainis, you know, basically wants me
to stop and go get popsicleswhich it probably still will get
popsicles at some point.
But I start using those cadencedrills.
So I love that you remind folksthat again you've got resources
, not just in the app, not onjust your website.
I personally own quite a few ofyour books.
I do not have your mindset bookAnd I can guarantee you that
(42:25):
that is going into my shoppingcart as soon as we're done
recording.
So thank you for sharing thosetips, and I love that it feels
as folks are if they're rollingthrough on their long run.
At some point in your long runyou probably have felt exactly
what Jeff is talking about.
So knowing that it is somethingthat you can kind of employ
tactics and techniques toovercome is such a beneficial
(42:47):
way of approaching it.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
Yeah, the cadence drill is a real simple, quick
fix because whenever you startcounting to monitor your cadence
you will turn on your humanbrain.
So at least for a while you'regoing to turn off the ancient
subconscious brain and stopthose negative hormones.
But the cadence drill does morethan that.
(43:11):
It'll make your stride smoother, your running form more easy
And you'll have the benefit ofthat on all long runs.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
Absolutely So.
With that said, i know that youdo have some suggestions for
folks that they incorporatesuggestions is probably a light
way of saying it, but cadencedrills, acceleration gliders for
folks that are new or beenpracticing run walk run for a
long time still great to bringit back to those basics of those
cadence drills and getting themost out of those glides, of
(43:44):
gliding in and out of those runwalk runs to again keep them
rolling smoothly.
And again, these are thingsthat folks can find those
resources on your website and inyour app.
Jeff, i think it's very, veryevident how much I am just such
a huge fan of yours And I wantto take a second to thank you,
not just for changing thisentire sport and making this
(44:06):
community so diverse andinclusive, but also just for
truly being such a down to earthindividual who is willing to
speak to us.
So thank you very much foreverything you've done for us.
Pleased to do it.
Speaker 3 (44:17):
Y'all are doing a great job, and I just want to
support your efforts.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Well, with that said, friends, I'm going to have all
of these links in our episodenotes so that you guys can get
connected with Jeff, the manhimself, And we definitely want
to encourage you all.
if you haven't yet been trying,run, walk, run.
this is your time to just giveit a try.
Maybe give it a try TuesdayWhat did you call it, coach?
Running roulette Tuesday I'mgoing to coin that one.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
Okay, sounds good, that's a new one.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
That's great.
I love it.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
Well, great job everybody.
Give yourself a high five, makesure that you rehydrate and
re-fuel with some of your brunchclassic favorites And, while
you're recovering and resetting,we'd appreciate if you take the
time to subscribe and rate timefor brunch wherever you listen
to us on again, connect withJeff, and you're definitely
going to have lots of thesepositive, uplifting messages
coming your way If you startfollowing him on all of his
(45:12):
social media platforms orsubscribing to his newsletter.
We want to thank you guys forjoining us and we're going to
see you again when it's time forbrunch, where we continue to
serve up more miles with a sideof smiles.
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