January 12, 2025 • 40 mins
Discover how to successfully launch your first digital product and scale your service business in this informative episode. You’ll learn actionable tips on audience building, pre-selling, pricing strategies, and ongoing marketing for digital products.
• Discussion on adding scalable offers
• Emphasis on starting small with digital products
• Understanding the importance of validating ideas through pre-selling
• Strategies for building an audience and leveraging partnerships
• Exploring existing resources for product creation
• Insights on pricing strategies for perceived value
• Importance of managing time effectively in product creation
• Discussion of the necessity for ongoing marketing efforts
• Final thoughts on launching a digital product successfully
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Tiny Marketing.
This is Sarah Norblach, andthis is a podcast that helps B2B
service businesses do more withless.
Learn lean, actionable, organicmarketing strategies you can
implement today.
No fluff, just powerful growthtactics that work.
Ready to scale smarter, hitthat subscribe button and start
growing your business with TinyMarketing growing your business
(00:28):
with tiny marketing.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hello, welcome to episode 119 of the tiny
marketing show.
I'm Sarah Noel Block and todaywe are talking about the next
phase in our service business,and that is adding a scalable
offer to our business, and theeasiest, lowest threshold way to
do that is through a digitalproduct.
Today I am talking to ReneeMorovich, who is an expert on
(00:51):
creating your first digitalproduct.
So stay tuned so you could be alittle fly on the wall of my
conversation with Renee.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Hey everyone.
Hey everyone, I'm renee and Ihelp service providers create
digital products.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Uh, specifically, their first digital product.
Yes, I'm excited and simple.
I'm excited about this.
We are bringing this as part ofa scalability series, so this
will be in conjunction with,like how does a service provider
start a group program?
How do you launch digitalproducts?
All of those things that westart thinking about once we hit
that threshold and we're like,well, shit, I don't have time to
(01:38):
add any more clients and I'mkind of at a ceiling on what I
can make.
So this is an awesome way tolike dip your toe into that
scalability.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
So yeah, I love that and I love like, yeah, go ahead.
No, you go ahead.
Yeah, I like the small, likeliterally like dip your toe and
not like dive off the deep endsort of thing.
Like let's just do somethingsmall and see kind of how it
works.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah, let's test the waters on that.
Speaking of test the waters,can you just give some examples
of what you would considerdigital products?
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Yeah, this is a very common question that I didn't
think of when I had first gottenstarted.
But I think of like excuse me,like toolkits, workbooks, guides
, maybe an ebook, you knowsomething that's very small
workbook, if you want somethingthat is kind of like a step
above a lead magnet, butsomething that really focuses on
(02:34):
one thing.
It isn't just, you know, 57videos and 27 different modules,
like like no, much, muchsmaller.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, that is exactly why I asked is because, of
course, like an on-demand course, could be considered a digital
product, but is that what youwould consider?
Speaker 3 (02:51):
a digital product.
Yeah, you can totally do that.
But I don't recommend like asyour first product because it
takes a really long time tocreate that.
And if you don't know whatyou're doing which you don't
because you haven't done thisbefore then I don't think that
starting with something likethat is really great.
Like, start with somethingsmaller, see if you can get
people that win, see if you knowhow to market it, see if you
can attract people, see if youcan get sales, and then, once
(03:13):
you kind of figure out, you knowyou can kind of scale from
there.
You know you can make anotherproduct a supplement to it.
You can make it bigger, you canadd on to it, you can make your
course, whatever it is.
But starting small, I think, isvery helpful for people because
you want to see some success onthe other side.
And if the other side is twoyears later and tons and tons of
time invested and money, that'sscarier to me.
(03:37):
Let's find that out sooner,it's 100% scarier.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
I have always even from like before tiny marketing
existed, I still had.
I sold digital products stillas like just me, and I always
pre-sold them before I createdthem to see if there was even a
market for them in the firstplace.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Yeah, yeah, I've been thinking about pre-selling
lately.
I have had people on my podcasttalk about that and that's a
great way, and some people likenever pre-sell and some people
are like I only pre-selling.
Lately I have had people on mypodcast talk about that and
that's a great way, and somepeople like never pre-sell and
some people are like I onlypre-sell.
It doesn't matter If you wannado it, it's a great way to
validate.
But I think that one thingpeople should be aware of is if
you try to pre-sell and youdon't have a big audience, you
might not get the validation orthe results you're looking for.
(04:20):
So if you have an audience oflike five people and three of
them say yes, that doesn'tnecessarily mean it's going to
sell or going to be a goodproduct.
So I think it really depends onthe size of your audience and
who specifically is on your list.
Like if your mom and yourneighbor are on your list and
like yeah, we'll buy yourproduct or like no, we wouldn't
buy that because they don't needit.
You know, just kind of focus onthat.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Like, think about that before you dive in.
I touched on that a little bitbefore we hit record on your
audience size, because whenyou're doing digital products
anything that's scalable youneed a bigger audience for it.
So what's your advice there?
Is there a threshold peopleshould be at before they start
going down this path?
Speaker 3 (05:03):
I think that you should at least be on the
journey right.
So, like having a product andbeing like I don't have any
email lists, like, oh, it'sgoing to be harder.
You know, you can still borrowother people's audiences and
there are things that you can doaffiliates and whatever but I
think you should have an ideabefore you dive into it.
Like you know, thinking of anidea for a product and building
(05:25):
the product is great, butknowing how you're going to
market it is also good.
So, you know, maybe you havealready started that email list
and maybe you put out freecontent and you have a lead
magnet.
Those are all good things to bebuilding the audience.
Do you know what I mean?
Like I think that that ishelpful.
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (05:42):
I think that is helpful.
Yeah, maybe it's because I'm amarketer, but I am like build
the audience first.
You need the plan to be able tosell.
You need to know how manypeople.
If you have a goal around yourrevenue for this digital product
, you can do the math and figureout how many people you need to
(06:02):
get in front of in order tosell to that amount, and I don't
know.
So you talked about borrowingother people's audiences.
So I just wanted to touch onone thing real quick before we
get into it a little bit deeper.
But, like Mariah Cause, jordanGill, those big online players,
(06:26):
they've been talking a lotlately about how beneficial
digital products are in buildingtheir audience when they're
doing the borrowed audiencething.
So webinar swaps, newsletterswaps, whatever, newsletter
swaps, whatever but they usedigital products and they use
(06:48):
100% promo code in order toconvert that audience to theirs
because there's a value attachedto it, so they're more likely
to convert.
So that's another reason thatit's beneficial to have that
digital product.
You're adding a value to thatknowledge piece that you're
selling.
But let's talk about borrowedaudiences.
(07:08):
What, in your experience, hasbeen a good route to go in
borrowing audiences, doingpartnership collaborations?
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Yeah, I think it really depends on the product,
like whatever industry you're infinding people who are in
similar industries, you know, sothat you know they don't offer
this product or service but itworks nicely with your product
or service.
So you know, really, just, youknow, it's kind of like
networking.
It's like looking around forpeople, seeing who might fit.
(07:40):
You know, listening to podcasts, but it could be anything from
guesting on podcasts, like yousaid, newsletter swaps, bundles
are something that peopleparticipate in.
There's really like a lot ofopportunities out there and I
think that it's kind ofdistilling it down and figuring
out what would be best for youand your audience.
You know, if you're not a videoperson or you are an audio
(08:03):
person or you love writing, youknow, even people still do blog
post swaps, like guest blogposts.
You know, I think we think like, oh, blogging you said it's not
, it's still out there.
So it really I think you know,look around and see what might
work for you and what people inyour industry are doing or
related industries.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, Someone was asking me the other day why
don't you ever name any of theblogs that you manage?
A blog, I'm like it sounds like2015.
Yes, people are still readingcontent.
I'm a reader.
If there's a video and a blog,I'll read the blog any day or
the video, but blog just soundsso old school.
(08:42):
I want to read a guide.
I want to read your articlebase, your content base.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Well, we were talking actually about.
What are some examples?
Toolkits, whatever I said,ebooks, and I kind of felt that
way too.
Ebooks sounds old, but reallyit's just a collection of
written information in aspecific form, in a form that
you can read on your Kindle oryour e-reader.
I think people still do that.
But yeah, I know what you meanabout the things sounding older.
(09:15):
It's like webmaster.
Webmaster used to be a thing.
Nobody calls it that anymore.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
No, yeah, so all these things still exist.
They're not dead, it's justdifferent naming conventions.
Now For sure, okay.
So I wanted to talk about.
You specialize in working withpeople on creating their first
digital product.
So what is your thought ontaking something that you have
(09:42):
already created that you use andtrying to figure out how to
make that a digital product,like the templates that you've
created?
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Yeah, no, I think that's a great place to start.
I have a lead magnet that talksabout, like, how to find an
idea for a product.
You're like, okay, I'm at thispoint I'm a service provider,
I'm full up on clients, I can'ttake any more clients or I don't
want to, but I do want to kindof try to diversify my income,
maybe try to serve people thatcan't afford to work with me or
whatever it is.
And you know that's a greatplace to look at what you've
(10:13):
already created instead ofstarting from scratch.
So I think it's a great placeto look in the things that
you've already created, alreadycreated for yourself, already
created for clients, because youdon't want to start from
scratch.
You don't want to open a Googledoc with, just you know, big
white screen and be like, okay,digital product, go like that.
Nobody can do that.
So look at the things that youhave already created.
(10:35):
And yeah, I've had some peopleon my podcast talk about this
too, where they had somethingactually that they gave away for
free and it wasn't doing reallywell, and so they kind of
polished it up right.
They put a video in front of ita little.
How to you know some moremarketing like why use this, who
is this for?
And really, in the polishing,it became the product.
So I think it's a great, greatidea to look through your, your
(10:57):
Dropbox or your Google drive orwherever you keep your files,
and see like, okay, what have Icreated?
And maybe it's not just onething, Maybe it's a couple
things that kind of morph intoone thing.
So, yeah, don't start fromscratch.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Yeah, I am a big fan of bundles.
Every digital product I'vecreated is a bundle.
It's like the templates that Iused a video to show you how I
use it.
It's whatever's working for mein some thing that I do and I
just put it together with avideo so you know how to use it.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
yeah, exactly, and I think that you know things that
have worked for your clients.
You know, you know if you're,if you're going that route, like
things that have worked for you, great.
But also things that haveworked for your clients, if
you've gotten some feedback onthat, like, oh, this was really
helpful or oh, I didn't knowthat, I didn't know, I needed to
know that.
Like, that is all greatinformation.
Anything that you're gettingfeedback on that is working, in
(11:51):
addition to looking at whatyou've already created, I think
is a good place to start.
You know, yeah, don't startfrom scratch.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yeah, that's a good point.
So combing through, like yoursales call transcripts and
seeing what were people askingfor, or if you do like I do
delivery day calls, where theday I'm delivering whatever the
thing is that I'm doing for them, I have a call with them and
usually something will come uplike well, do you have a
template for this so I'd be ableto implement this on my own or
(12:19):
whatever, and that's likeperfect, perfect digital product
fodder.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Yeah, when people ask for something and you can even
look.
Another thing I advise islooking through your free
content.
So looking at your newsletters,looking at your blog posts or
your videos or your social posts.
What are people gravitatingtowards?
If there's a specific topic orif they're responding, you know
they're replying, they're liking, they're sharing whatever it is
(12:44):
.
However, they're engaging.
Look at that, those topics, tohelp kind of guide you, you know
, to kind of give you a headstart again, not from just that
blank screen.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah, and that advice .
You can pull that throughpretty much everything in
marketing.
You can use micro content as ajumping off point for testing
what kind of marketing is goingto work for you.
That's how I figured out whatmy positioning would be.
I was like, well, there's thesethree things that make me
unique.
Let's test these out and seewhat resonates with people.
(13:17):
I was like, oh, working in asmall marketing department or
having no marketing department,that's what resonates with
people.
Okay, I'll lean into that one.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Yeah, and making sure you have enough people to pull.
So the kind of the building ofthe audience and the polling of
the audience.
It kind of it's not just like alinear thing, like you know you
get to X number of people andthen you can ask them questions,
like it.
You know it's.
It's kind of an organic sort ofthing, like as you're building
it and as you're askingquestions, you're modifying and
you're tweaking and you're kindof changing your not changing
(13:48):
your messaging, but honing in onyour messaging and then
starting to create those thingsthat people want.
So it's you'd asked beforeabout like a specific number.
I don't think it's any specificnumber.
I think it's, you know,depending on how engaged your
audience is and really likewhere you feel comfortable, and
some people feel comfortablelaunching something earlier just
to kind of test it out.
(14:10):
I've talked about this withpeople before about emailing.
Some people think that asyou're building your email list,
you have to build it to acertain number of people before
you send emails, and I don'tthink that's a great idea.
I think that you should besending emails to those five
people that are just on yourlist, because that's how you
practice and that's how you findyour voice and that's how you
get into a routine, so that whenyou have 100 people, 500 people
(14:34):
, 3,000 people, then you're goodat it.
You're not like, okay, 3,000people.
This is my first email to you.
It's going to be terrible.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
So be doing it all along.
Well, and then your list is socold by the time you finally
emailed them.
I promise you you will get aton of unsubscribes if you do
that.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Exactly.
They're like who is this person?
You know, we signed up for itfour years ago and we have no
idea what you are and this isn'trelevant for me anymore.
So yeah, definitely Exactly.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Okay, let me see.
What are we missing here.
Okay, let's talk about how topick the audience that you want
to sell to.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
This is tough.
So I have a couple of differentaudiences that I recommend
people sell to as serviceproviders, so you can create
something and sell something topeople that you don't know and
have no contact with or noaudience.
I don't recommend that.
That's harder because you haveto find those people.
So people that you may alreadybe in touch with could be your
(15:41):
peers.
So if you've been doing thisfor a long time, maybe you have
a nice network set up of peers,maybe you go to industry
conferences or something likethat, and that could be one
group of people to sell to,because you are established,
you've kind of worked out all ofthe kinks, you know how
everything works well for you,the software you use and your
(16:02):
processes, and you've kind ofhoned it over time.
So that could be one place tostart.
Even you could throw someaffiliate marketing into that
too.
Like I use the software youknow buy my you know welcome kit
bundle that I give to myclients and, you know, sign up
for a free trial of my emailmarketing software.
So your peers I think is onegroup of people that you could
(16:24):
sell to.
If you're looking to increaseyour audience, I guess in your
service you could sell to peoplewho are not ready to work with
you yet or maybe can't affordyou.
So people may be early on intheir journey and I think this
is a really powerful audiencebecause you stay in touch with
them and as they grow they maywant to work with you one on one
(16:46):
later.
It's a really long.
What do we call it?
Long sales cycle?
I suppose yeah, long journeylike just a long.
It could be a long time andmaybe those people don't work
with you.
But you know it gives you anopportunity to share your
knowledge with people withoutthat one-on-one time commitment.
So if you build something and10 people buy it, you know just
(17:08):
throwing numbers out there, 10people buy it.
You've helped 10 people thatyou didn't have to sit with
one-on-one and explain.
You know each time.
So that's kind of like the, theDIY crowd.
And the last crowd I wouldthink of would be people who are
almost ready to work with you.
But wouldn't it be great ifthey were just a little bit more
ready?
(17:28):
So one example I give is, youknow, for for web designers,
creating something where peoplecan create their web content and
then come to you with theircontent ready, like that's like
a web designer's dream andsomeone who has their content
ready.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
I just want to touch on that real quick.
That's so brilliant becauseit's also the first stage of
what they would need to doalready to work with you, so
it's like prepping them to workwith you.
I love that idea.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Yeah, so they get some value in a lower price
product where they can be guidedthrough that creation process.
And then they come to you andthey've gotten value out of that
.
So they're ready then to workwith you.
They're like, okay, I got somuch great value from Sarah.
I know I want to work with herone-on-one and I'm even more
(18:16):
ready than I would have beenotherwise.
So it's kind of like a I don'twant to say it's like a strange
audience.
I think maybe some people don'tthink of that, but I love that
kind of thing.
Like you're just kind ofprepping people and you don't
need a ton of sales in that case.
So you don't need to sell.
You know, 500 copies of yourworkbook.
You know, if you sold a couple,it's basically like a paid lead
(18:38):
magnet in that case.
So it's not so much like thesales from the product that are
really like the income, but it's.
You know, you're kind ofpulling people in to working
with you one-on-one, being moreprepared, and then you know
you're charging that higher ratewith your service.
So I like that group.
Yeah, it's a gateway offer.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
It pulls people and prepares them to work with you.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Yeah, there's another group of people I really
haven't talked about much.
This came up recently and I wasthinking about recording
something about it but for theservice provider, who is a local
service provider, so theyprovide their service only in a
specific geographic region.
We think service providers alot of times.
We think marketing, webdevelopment, copywriting, things
like that, where you can kindof do it from anywhere, but a
(19:26):
local service provider, forexample, like a photographer,
like a makeup artist, somethinglike that where you're together
in the same room providing thatservice for them to be able to
create digital products andexpand their, their customer
base, basically without, youknow, leaving that geographic
area, so that's kind of ananother audience I've been
(19:46):
thinking about, but haven'treally kind of fleshed that out
yet.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Yeah, I can see that that would also like if you were
to do that.
They would also be probablygood partnerships because they
have connections to other peoplethat are within that community
that would also want to buy thatthing.
Yeah, for sure.
So price points, what do thoselook like for digital products?
(20:13):
So price points, what do thoselook?
Speaker 3 (20:14):
like for digital products.
I think it really varies.
A couple just kind of broadstroke things to say about price
points.
I think with a first product,if it is something that is
smaller, keeping that cost lowerbut not too low, some people
will be like I want to sell thisfor $7, which is fine, but you
have to think about thatperceived value.
(20:35):
So if somebody is with a leadmagnet, for example, getting
something for free, oftentimeswe sign up for it and then we
never get around to it, but wedon't feel bad about it because
we didn't pay anything for it.
So it could be the same for adigital product.
So I like to advise that youjust talk to somebody, just talk
to a couple of colleagues.
(20:55):
I bet they will tell you toincrease the price.
You can always do a sale if youwant to, or a bundle If you
have more than one product, youcan bundle them together for a
certain cost.
Like there's a lot of things Ithink you can do with the
pricing.
I just don't love those likereally really really low, low
price products because I thinkthe perceived value is a little
(21:17):
bit, you know, kind of wacky.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Yeah, I would say the majority of the digital
products I run across arebetween like 27 and maybe 197.
You know everybody loves sevens, but yeah, exactly yeah, what
is it with that?
Yeah, somewhere between 20 and200 is where, like digital
products usually land, dependingon how robust they are.
(21:42):
Like when that is, 200 bucks isprobably fairly robust, a whole
bundle of things.
But you might get templates for30 bucks.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Yeah, and I think that you can also have that
product.
But you could have two or threelevels where, without you at
all, is X price, but the product, plus like a half an hour with
you, could be Y price, and sothat's not any.
It's not any.
I don't want to say additionalwork.
(22:19):
You're being compensated foryour work.
That one-on-one time, however,it just gives people another
option and I think I'm seeingpeople want a little bit more
accountability.
They maybe don't have the timeor the attention span to just
kind of buy something and gothrough it all on their own, but
if they know they have a callwith you or you know some sort
of office hours or you knowgroup YouTube live or whatever
(22:43):
it is you know they may be morelikely to purchase that and to
show up and to consume, becausereally we want people.
I think we want people toconsume the product, not just
buy it, because if they buy itand don't consume it, then like
you're not getting that word ofmouth, you're not getting a
repeat customer.
When you have new products oranything, you're just you just
got that sale.
But when people are consumingit, you're getting feedback,
(23:05):
you're getting testimonials,even even constructive criticism
.
You know to make your productbetter.
You're you're getting a lotmore from that when people are
going through your product andconsuming it.
So I think it's good to focuson that if you can, trying to
help people get through andlearn from your product.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
That would play really well with using it as a
gateway offer too, becauseyou're building trust with that
person.
You get that no like trustfactor because they're actually
experiencing what it's like towork with you, and that would
lead them to the bigger offer.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Yeah, yeah, so that like just small, like you know,
half hour call or whatever it isyou know, to help you go
through that workbook that youjust bought, yeah, they, they
get to see you and kind ofexperience working with you.
And I, yeah, I do feel likethat.
I feel like when we can kind ofshow more of ourselves, people
are attracted to that andthey're like, okay, yes, she
knows what she's talking about.
I definitely want to work withher in the future and stay on
(24:01):
her email list and continue to,you know, follow her on social
media and engage and that helpsyou build that audience right,
like you're drawing people inyou know to the orbit.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Yeah Well, that's a great way to put it, cause I
always make it super awkward andI talk about my content.
Ecosystem is like a little bittighter of a hug.
We're shaking hands when youpurchase the digital product,
but then we get on a one-on-onecall A little, definitely a
little closer.
I love that, but you made itsound less creepy, so good for
(24:39):
you.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
I don't know where I got that from, but it's just
something that kind of sticks inmy mind.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Yes, you had one more thing on your list of touch
points.
Touch points Time managementwhen it comes to creating the
product and the marketing planaround it.
So walk me through that.
What would it look like?
What would creating yourmarketing plan around it look
(25:06):
like first, and how do you fitit in?
Speaker 3 (25:10):
I think even before that.
I think what happens is peopleare like I'm going to create a
product and then I'm going tostart to work on it.
I'm going to sit down and I'mgoing to work on it, and then
the client work comes in andfamily and other obligations,
and so you're just like it goesfurther and further down the
list and I think that we justdon't get around to it.
So I think there are a lot ofpeople out there who have half
(25:30):
started digital products butnever launched.
So I think that figuring outhow to set aside the time, like
what works for you, what isgoing to work for you in terms
of time, like do you alwaysblock off or can you block off
an hour or two hours maybe on acertain day of the week?
I like to do this earlier inthe week because I find that
(25:53):
when I do something on Mondays,I'm really proud of myself, and
then all week I'm like so proudof myself, I'm like, oh, I got
that done on Monday, I rule andI don't have to do it again
until next Monday.
So that's something I like todo.
I know not everybody can dothat, but I feel like earlier in
the week, earlier in the day,earlier in the month, whatever
it is.
If you can knock something out,I think you'll feel good about
(26:17):
it.
And then you'll want to keepgoing because you do feel good.
But also chunking it down intomanageable tasks.
So, a task create digitalproduct that's not a task You're
never going to check that off.
I mean, you're going to checkit off one day, far, far, far in
the future.
But you have to create thingsthat you can check off your list
.
So at the end of that 30minutes hour, two hour block,
(26:40):
whatever you've set aside, thatyou can check something off,
that you're made progress andwant to continue to make
progress, because otherwise Ithink it's kind of demoralizing.
You're like oh, I worked forthree hours.
I don't know what I did, Idon't know how much further I
(27:00):
have to go.
I just think that it's reallydifficult.
So chunking that down and Ikind of have like a sort of
five-step kind of thing Fivesteps and then another five
steps.
I don't know I'm working on thedetails, but figuring out who
your audience is, what winyou're getting for them, what
does this product actually looklike?
(27:22):
How long do you think it'sgoing to create?
So kind of doing this pre-workand this planning.
I know some people don't likeplanning, but I think it's
really important because onceyou create the plan, you just
follow the plan.
Oh, I don't even have to worry.
What am I do today?
Oh, the next thing on the list.
So once you get that productcreated, you know whether it's a
video or a workbook or whateveryou know getting some kind of
(27:45):
feedback around it.
You know showing it to people,maybe in exchange for a
testimonial, and while it's outthere, you know kind of.
You know people are looking itover, creating all of that stuff
around it, like what's thetitle of this product?
Some people do that first.
I'm not one of those people Ilike to.
It's like when I write an email, I don't write the subject.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
first I read the subject last.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
So, however, you do just like I don't know what this
email is about until it hascome out, I don't know what the
best subject is I mean first, isemail first, before I name it.
Exactly.
Yes, I'm in awe of people thatcan do it a different way.
So what is the price point thatyou have decided on?
You don't have to decide onthat until you've created the
product.
And then what are some thingsyou want to say about this
(28:27):
product?
Your launch marketing and thenyour ongoing marketing.
So your launch marketing yeah,your social posts, your emails
and hopefully you've beentalking about it all along, but
the very specific like it ishere.
You know get your discount orget your early adopter or
whatever it is.
But then also, you know takingsome time to like okay, I did
(28:50):
this, how did it go?
How did I feel about that?
Did I like this?
Did I not like this?
Did I do this for the rightreasons?
And then thinking about howyou're going to continue to talk
about it.
Because if you launch somethingon a Monday, you know a certain
number of people.
You're going to meet somebodynew on Tuesday and on Wednesday
and on Thursday, and if younever talk about that product
(29:12):
again, those people aren't goingto know about it.
So how can you continue to talkabout it?
Will it be in your emails?
Will it be in your social posts?
Will you be guesting onpodcasts, Will you be
participating in bundles, emailswaps, whatever those things are
that you think might be goodfor you?
If you're like I don't dopodcasts, don't put podcast
(29:33):
guesting as an avenue forpromoting yourself and your
product and problem awareness.
So, just thinking about that,what might be doable for you in
the future?
I think people just leave thatpart out.
They're like, oh, launch, done,Yay.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Over.
That's me, that's me.
I have launched a millennium,it's everybody.
And they sold really well.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
And then I was like well, the exciting part's over,
yes exactly, but I think it's soimportant because you created
it, so to keep talking about itand you don't have to talk about
it all the time every day, butyou know, to kind of keep it in
a regular rotation, I think isgood, because then you, I think
it's also exciting to see anysales.
(30:14):
So to see a sale, you know, ona random Thursday or whatever, I
think is exciting, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Yeah, putting it in the calendar, so it's
reoccurring and you remember todo it.
And I think it would be even ifyou're like me and you get
excited about the launch andthey're like nah, after that,
having it as part of yourecosystem, your offer ecosystem,
would make it so much easier,because then it becomes a
(30:40):
gateway offer to the next one.
There's a lot more motivationwhen you're like, okay, well,
this can turn into a high ticketsale.
It just starts here.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Yeah, I like your emails too, because you have,
like at the bottom, like ways towork with me, like here are the
things that you can do and youknow different price points,
different options for people,and I love that.
It's just another option.
Another way to have people workwith you is a digital product.
Like here it is, I've created itIf this sounds good to you, you
know, and you kind of tell themabout it and you know,
(31:13):
hopefully you've done enoughprep work that you know it
solves an important problem.
You know the, the person thathas that problem, you know, I
think it just kind of workstogether, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Yeah, well, I think.
Thank you, I'm glad you likedthat, and I think that email
signatures are an undervaluedsales mechanism.
Oh my gosh, I have gotten a lotof traction from adding calls
to action as a PS in mysignatures, in both my email
(31:45):
that is just like one-to-one andmy email marketing.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
Yes, that's important to note too, not just in your
email marketing system, but alsoin your regular email signature
, and it doesn't have to be asrobust, I feel, like in your
regular signature and you can dodifferent things with, like,
new emails versus replies.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
But don't forget that .
Yes, I have different calls toaction.
Based off of that, or who I'mtalking to, I might switch it
out, and it's such a passive wayof reminding people that you
have this offer available tothem.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
And those are reusable like blocks, right?
So you write three differentsignatures one time and then,
yes, as you're sending an email,you decide, okay, use this
signature, so you don't have toreinvent the wheel every time.
And the same thing wheneveryou're sharing about your
product, you don't have to like,okay, what am I going to say
about the product this week.
You can have like a contentbank or something to pull from
(32:44):
that you share.
And as you get sales andhopefully you're asking for
feedback, asking fortestimonials.
Those are great to use in yourmarketing as well.
So it's being done for you,just use it.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Yeah yeah, I have a content bank that I always pull
from whenever it's any salesoriented thing.
Objections are a huge one.
Thank yous thing.
Objections are a huge one.
Faqs, transformations, customerstories.
If you end up doing theone-to-one calls as an add-on
for your digital product, thenyou have personal stories and
(33:18):
things that they've said thatyou can pull into your content,
everything content.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Exactly Record those calls too, so that you can go
through and kind of, you know,pull out some great quotes or
you know, even with theirpermission, I guess you could
pull out a short video snippet,like, yeah, definitely don't let
their words go to waste.
Because it's really hard, Ithink, for us to think of, and
maybe, maybe not so hard, butmaybe we can think of like, oh,
you need this product because X.
(33:45):
But when other people say it,they have a different point of
view, they have differentexperience, and I think that it
can resonate, because whensomebody else says it, then
another person can say, oh, Ifeel that way too, which is a
little bit different fromsomebody saying something who's
selling the product.
Yeah, I just think it'spowerful.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
It's more real because it's someone who
actually used it.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
Yes, yeah, so yeah again.
Going back to like you wantpeople to use the product, you
want people to have success withit.
It's not just about the sale.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Yeah, and, when it comes down to it, the more
people who are having successwith it, the more user generated
content you're going to get,the more you're going to talk
about it online.
Yes, yeah, yay, even better,yes, okay, can you tell everyone
how they can work with you andtell them about your podcast?
I'm a listener, by the way, Ifollow on Spotify.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Yeah, oh, thanks.
Yeah.
So I have a podcast.
It's called your First DigitalProduct I know a very original
name and I have a couple ofdifferent types of episodes at
this point.
Some are solo episodes, someare interviews with people who
have digital products and thestory on how they launched them
and all the things that havecome up successes, failures and
(35:00):
lately I've been having someepisodes with people who are
just there to talk aboutsomething, to talk about
marketing, to talk about socialmedia.
I have one coming out tomorrow,at the time of this recording,
that is about courses.
I'm not a huge proponent ofcourses as a first product, but
many courses you could applythis to, and she has some just
(35:23):
really great tips on how to makesure that your course is
successful.
So I love talking to people,just kind of about all things.
So it's yfdpshow and you canfind it in all the places, apple
, spotify, wherever so that'sthe podcast.
My website isscenicroutedigitalcom and if you
go to scenicroutedigitalcom,slash tiny.
(35:44):
I have some resources that Iwill share with your audience.
Based on the things that wehave talked about today, I offer
a one-on-one service, basicallyjust helping you get your
product launched.
So I think that people can runinto some issues.
They just need somebody to talkto.
They need somebody to help themput that plan together.
We're great at putting planstogether for our clients, but
(36:07):
when it comes to ourselves we'relike wait, what, what do we do?
And so I think, just havingsomebody to talk to and like
what platform should I use andcan you test this for me?
And just basically things likethat.
So I work with peopleone-on-one.
I don't have any digitalproducts related to this yet.
I know we're getting kind ofmet up, but because I'm building
(36:28):
my audience and kind of tryingto practice what I preach, you
know, hoping that as I talk tomy audience more, they will let
me know what they want to knowabout digital products.
So, again, kind of meta, butthat's.
That's kind of the offeringright now.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Well, awesome, All right guys.
Those links will be in the shownotes page so you can check her
out and figure out what yourfirst digital product should be.
Thank you for joining me.
Linkedin is your, is yoursocial media place, Is that
right?
I'm on.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
LinkedIn.
I'm on Instagram, YouTube.
I have the podcast on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
I'm in the places I can give you links All the
places It'll be in the shownotes.
So thank you, awesome.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so so much forjoining me in this episode all
about creating your firstdigital product.
I hope you got some cool ideasand realize it's not that hard.
(37:29):
You can take some of the thingsthat already exist within your
business ecosystem and you canturn it into a digital product
to find a scalable, new,slightly more passive way to
create income.
So yay for that.
If you enjoyed this episode,please go follow Renee for one
(37:49):
on LinkedIn and for two,subscribe, like and comment on
this episode wherever you'rewatching or listening to it.
I appreciate you and I'm sograteful that you choose to
spend your weeks with me,listening to my little voice
chirping in your ear.
I will see you next time forepisode 120.
(38:12):
All right bye.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
You love all things tiny marketing.
Head down to the show notespage and sign up for the wait
list to join the tiny marketingclub, where you get to work
one-on-one with me withtrainings, feedback and pop-up
coaching that will help youscale your marketing as a B2B
(38:35):
service business.
So I'll see you over in theclub.
Welcome to Tiny Marketing.
This is Sarah Norblach, andthis is a podcast that helps B2B
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Learn lean, actionable, organicmarketing strategies you can
implement today.
No fluff, just powerful growthtactics that work.
Ready to scale smarter, hitthat subscribe button and start
growing your business with TinyMarketing growing your business
(00:28):
with tiny marketing.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Hello, welcome to episode 119 of the tiny
marketing show.
I'm Sarah Noel Block and todaywe are talking about the next
phase in our service business,and that is adding a scalable
offer to our business, and theeasiest, lowest threshold way to
do that is through a digitalproduct.
Today I am talking to ReneeMorovich, who is an expert on
(00:51):
creating your first digitalproduct.
So stay tuned so you could be alittle fly on the wall of my
conversation with Renee.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Hey everyone.
Hey everyone, I'm renee and Ihelp service providers create
digital products.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Uh, specifically, their first digital product.
Yes, I'm excited and simple.
I'm excited about this.
We are bringing this as part ofa scalability series, so this
will be in conjunction with,like how does a service provider
start a group program?
How do you launch digitalproducts?
All of those things that westart thinking about once we hit
that threshold and we're like,well, shit, I don't have time to
(01:38):
add any more clients and I'mkind of at a ceiling on what I
can make.
So this is an awesome way tolike dip your toe into that
scalability.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
So yeah, I love that and I love like, yeah, go ahead.
No, you go ahead.
Yeah, I like the small, likeliterally like dip your toe and
not like dive off the deep endsort of thing.
Like let's just do somethingsmall and see kind of how it
works.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Yeah, let's test the waters on that.
Speaking of test the waters,can you just give some examples
of what you would considerdigital products?
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Yeah, this is a very common question that I didn't
think of when I had first gottenstarted.
But I think of like excuse me,like toolkits, workbooks, guides
, maybe an ebook, you knowsomething that's very small
workbook, if you want somethingthat is kind of like a step
above a lead magnet, butsomething that really focuses on
(02:34):
one thing.
It isn't just, you know, 57videos and 27 different modules,
like like no, much, muchsmaller.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, that is exactly why I asked is because, of
course, like an on-demand course, could be considered a digital
product, but is that what youwould consider?
Speaker 3 (02:51):
a digital product.
Yeah, you can totally do that.
But I don't recommend like asyour first product because it
takes a really long time tocreate that.
And if you don't know whatyou're doing which you don't
because you haven't done thisbefore then I don't think that
starting with something likethat is really great.
Like, start with somethingsmaller, see if you can get
people that win, see if you knowhow to market it, see if you
can attract people, see if youcan get sales, and then, once
(03:13):
you kind of figure out, you knowyou can kind of scale from
there.
You know you can make anotherproduct a supplement to it.
You can make it bigger, you canadd on to it, you can make your
course, whatever it is.
But starting small, I think, isvery helpful for people because
you want to see some success onthe other side.
And if the other side is twoyears later and tons and tons of
time invested and money, that'sscarier to me.
(03:37):
Let's find that out sooner,it's 100% scarier.
Speaker 2 (03:41):
I have always even from like before tiny marketing
existed, I still had.
I sold digital products stillas like just me, and I always
pre-sold them before I createdthem to see if there was even a
market for them in the firstplace.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Yeah, yeah, I've been thinking about pre-selling
lately.
I have had people on my podcasttalk about that and that's a
great way, and some people likenever pre-sell and some people
are like I only pre-selling.
Lately I have had people on mypodcast talk about that and
that's a great way, and somepeople like never pre-sell and
some people are like I onlypre-sell.
It doesn't matter If you wannado it, it's a great way to
validate.
But I think that one thingpeople should be aware of is if
you try to pre-sell and youdon't have a big audience, you
might not get the validation orthe results you're looking for.
(04:20):
So if you have an audience oflike five people and three of
them say yes, that doesn'tnecessarily mean it's going to
sell or going to be a goodproduct.
So I think it really depends onthe size of your audience and
who specifically is on your list.
Like if your mom and yourneighbor are on your list and
like yeah, we'll buy yourproduct or like no, we wouldn't
buy that because they don't needit.
You know, just kind of focus onthat.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Like, think about that before you dive in.
I touched on that a little bitbefore we hit record on your
audience size, because whenyou're doing digital products
anything that's scalable youneed a bigger audience for it.
So what's your advice there?
Is there a threshold peopleshould be at before they start
going down this path?
Speaker 3 (05:03):
I think that you should at least be on the
journey right.
So, like having a product andbeing like I don't have any
email lists, like, oh, it'sgoing to be harder.
You know, you can still borrowother people's audiences and
there are things that you can doaffiliates and whatever but I
think you should have an ideabefore you dive into it.
Like you know, thinking of anidea for a product and building
(05:25):
the product is great, butknowing how you're going to
market it is also good.
So, you know, maybe you havealready started that email list
and maybe you put out freecontent and you have a lead
magnet.
Those are all good things to bebuilding the audience.
Do you know what I mean?
Like I think that that ishelpful.
Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (05:42):
I think that is helpful.
Yeah, maybe it's because I'm amarketer, but I am like build
the audience first.
You need the plan to be able tosell.
You need to know how manypeople.
If you have a goal around yourrevenue for this digital product
, you can do the math and figureout how many people you need to
(06:02):
get in front of in order tosell to that amount, and I don't
know.
So you talked about borrowingother people's audiences.
So I just wanted to touch onone thing real quick before we
get into it a little bit deeper.
But, like Mariah Cause, jordanGill, those big online players,
(06:26):
they've been talking a lotlately about how beneficial
digital products are in buildingtheir audience when they're
doing the borrowed audiencething.
So webinar swaps, newsletterswaps, whatever, newsletter
swaps, whatever but they usedigital products and they use
(06:48):
100% promo code in order toconvert that audience to theirs
because there's a value attachedto it, so they're more likely
to convert.
So that's another reason thatit's beneficial to have that
digital product.
You're adding a value to thatknowledge piece that you're
selling.
But let's talk about borrowedaudiences.
(07:08):
What, in your experience, hasbeen a good route to go in
borrowing audiences, doingpartnership collaborations?
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Yeah, I think it really depends on the product,
like whatever industry you're infinding people who are in
similar industries, you know, sothat you know they don't offer
this product or service but itworks nicely with your product
or service.
So you know, really, just, youknow, it's kind of like
networking.
It's like looking around forpeople, seeing who might fit.
(07:40):
You know, listening to podcasts, but it could be anything from
guesting on podcasts, like yousaid, newsletter swaps, bundles
are something that peopleparticipate in.
There's really like a lot ofopportunities out there and I
think that it's kind ofdistilling it down and figuring
out what would be best for youand your audience.
You know, if you're not a videoperson or you are an audio
(08:03):
person or you love writing, youknow, even people still do blog
post swaps, like guest blogposts.
You know, I think we think like, oh, blogging you said it's not
, it's still out there.
So it really I think you know,look around and see what might
work for you and what people inyour industry are doing or
related industries.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, Someone was asking me the other day why
don't you ever name any of theblogs that you manage?
A blog, I'm like it sounds like2015.
Yes, people are still readingcontent.
I'm a reader.
If there's a video and a blog,I'll read the blog any day or
the video, but blog just soundsso old school.
(08:42):
I want to read a guide.
I want to read your articlebase, your content base.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
Well, we were talking actually about.
What are some examples?
Toolkits, whatever I said,ebooks, and I kind of felt that
way too.
Ebooks sounds old, but reallyit's just a collection of
written information in aspecific form, in a form that
you can read on your Kindle oryour e-reader.
I think people still do that.
But yeah, I know what you meanabout the things sounding older.
(09:15):
It's like webmaster.
Webmaster used to be a thing.
Nobody calls it that anymore.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
No, yeah, so all these things still exist.
They're not dead, it's justdifferent naming conventions.
Now For sure, okay.
So I wanted to talk about.
You specialize in working withpeople on creating their first
digital product.
So what is your thought ontaking something that you have
(09:42):
already created that you use andtrying to figure out how to
make that a digital product,like the templates that you've
created?
Speaker 3 (09:50):
Yeah, no, I think that's a great place to start.
I have a lead magnet that talksabout, like, how to find an
idea for a product.
You're like, okay, I'm at thispoint I'm a service provider,
I'm full up on clients, I can'ttake any more clients or I don't
want to, but I do want to kindof try to diversify my income,
maybe try to serve people thatcan't afford to work with me or
whatever it is.
And you know that's a greatplace to look at what you've
(10:13):
already created instead ofstarting from scratch.
So I think it's a great placeto look in the things that
you've already created, alreadycreated for yourself, already
created for clients, because youdon't want to start from
scratch.
You don't want to open a Googledoc with, just you know, big
white screen and be like, okay,digital product, go like that.
Nobody can do that.
So look at the things that youhave already created.
(10:35):
And yeah, I've had some peopleon my podcast talk about this
too, where they had somethingactually that they gave away for
free and it wasn't doing reallywell, and so they kind of
polished it up right.
They put a video in front of ita little.
How to you know some moremarketing like why use this, who
is this for?
And really, in the polishing,it became the product.
So I think it's a great, greatidea to look through your, your
(10:57):
Dropbox or your Google drive orwherever you keep your files,
and see like, okay, what have Icreated?
And maybe it's not just onething, Maybe it's a couple
things that kind of morph intoone thing.
So, yeah, don't start fromscratch.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Yeah, I am a big fan of bundles.
Every digital product I'vecreated is a bundle.
It's like the templates that Iused a video to show you how I
use it.
It's whatever's working for mein some thing that I do and I
just put it together with avideo so you know how to use it.
Speaker 3 (11:28):
yeah, exactly, and I think that you know things that
have worked for your clients.
You know, you know if you're,if you're going that route, like
things that have worked for you, great.
But also things that haveworked for your clients, if
you've gotten some feedback onthat, like, oh, this was really
helpful or oh, I didn't knowthat, I didn't know, I needed to
know that.
Like, that is all greatinformation.
Anything that you're gettingfeedback on that is working, in
(11:51):
addition to looking at whatyou've already created, I think
is a good place to start.
You know, yeah, don't startfrom scratch.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
Yeah, that's a good point.
So combing through, like yoursales call transcripts and
seeing what were people askingfor, or if you do like I do
delivery day calls, where theday I'm delivering whatever the
thing is that I'm doing for them, I have a call with them and
usually something will come uplike well, do you have a
template for this so I'd be ableto implement this on my own or
(12:19):
whatever, and that's likeperfect, perfect digital product
fodder.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
Yeah, when people ask for something and you can even
look.
Another thing I advise islooking through your free
content.
So looking at your newsletters,looking at your blog posts or
your videos or your social posts.
What are people gravitatingtowards?
If there's a specific topic orif they're responding, you know
they're replying, they're liking, they're sharing whatever it is
(12:44):
.
However, they're engaging.
Look at that, those topics, tohelp kind of guide you, you know
, to kind of give you a headstart again, not from just that
blank screen.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yeah, and that advice .
You can pull that throughpretty much everything in
marketing.
You can use micro content as ajumping off point for testing
what kind of marketing is goingto work for you.
That's how I figured out whatmy positioning would be.
I was like, well, there's thesethree things that make me
unique.
Let's test these out and seewhat resonates with people.
(13:17):
I was like, oh, working in asmall marketing department or
having no marketing department,that's what resonates with
people.
Okay, I'll lean into that one.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Yeah, and making sure you have enough people to pull.
So the kind of the building ofthe audience and the polling of
the audience.
It kind of it's not just like alinear thing, like you know you
get to X number of people andthen you can ask them questions,
like it.
You know it's.
It's kind of an organic sort ofthing, like as you're building
it and as you're askingquestions, you're modifying and
you're tweaking and you're kindof changing your not changing
(13:48):
your messaging, but honing in onyour messaging and then
starting to create those thingsthat people want.
So it's you'd asked beforeabout like a specific number.
I don't think it's any specificnumber.
I think it's, you know,depending on how engaged your
audience is and really likewhere you feel comfortable, and
some people feel comfortablelaunching something earlier just
to kind of test it out.
(14:10):
I've talked about this withpeople before about emailing.
Some people think that asyou're building your email list,
you have to build it to acertain number of people before
you send emails, and I don'tthink that's a great idea.
I think that you should besending emails to those five
people that are just on yourlist, because that's how you
practice and that's how you findyour voice and that's how you
get into a routine, so that whenyou have 100 people, 500 people
(14:34):
, 3,000 people, then you're goodat it.
You're not like, okay, 3,000people.
This is my first email to you.
It's going to be terrible.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
So be doing it all along.
Well, and then your list is socold by the time you finally
emailed them.
I promise you you will get aton of unsubscribes if you do
that.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Exactly.
They're like who is this person?
You know, we signed up for itfour years ago and we have no
idea what you are and this isn'trelevant for me anymore.
So yeah, definitely Exactly.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
Okay, let me see.
What are we missing here.
Okay, let's talk about how topick the audience that you want
to sell to.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
This is tough.
So I have a couple of differentaudiences that I recommend
people sell to as serviceproviders, so you can create
something and sell something topeople that you don't know and
have no contact with or noaudience.
I don't recommend that.
That's harder because you haveto find those people.
So people that you may alreadybe in touch with could be your
(15:41):
peers.
So if you've been doing thisfor a long time, maybe you have
a nice network set up of peers,maybe you go to industry
conferences or something likethat, and that could be one
group of people to sell to,because you are established,
you've kind of worked out all ofthe kinks, you know how
everything works well for you,the software you use and your
(16:02):
processes, and you've kind ofhoned it over time.
So that could be one place tostart.
Even you could throw someaffiliate marketing into that
too.
Like I use the software youknow buy my you know welcome kit
bundle that I give to myclients and, you know, sign up
for a free trial of my emailmarketing software.
So your peers I think is onegroup of people that you could
(16:24):
sell to.
If you're looking to increaseyour audience, I guess in your
service you could sell to peoplewho are not ready to work with
you yet or maybe can't affordyou.
So people may be early on intheir journey and I think this
is a really powerful audiencebecause you stay in touch with
them and as they grow they maywant to work with you one on one
(16:46):
later.
It's a really long.
What do we call it?
Long sales cycle?
I suppose yeah, long journeylike just a long.
It could be a long time andmaybe those people don't work
with you.
But you know it gives you anopportunity to share your
knowledge with people withoutthat one-on-one time commitment.
So if you build something and10 people buy it, you know just
(17:08):
throwing numbers out there, 10people buy it.
You've helped 10 people thatyou didn't have to sit with
one-on-one and explain.
You know each time.
So that's kind of like the, theDIY crowd.
And the last crowd I wouldthink of would be people who are
almost ready to work with you.
But wouldn't it be great ifthey were just a little bit more
ready?
(17:28):
So one example I give is, youknow, for for web designers,
creating something where peoplecan create their web content and
then come to you with theircontent ready, like that's like
a web designer's dream andsomeone who has their content
ready.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
I just want to touch on that real quick.
That's so brilliant becauseit's also the first stage of
what they would need to doalready to work with you, so
it's like prepping them to workwith you.
I love that idea.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
Yeah, so they get some value in a lower price
product where they can be guidedthrough that creation process.
And then they come to you andthey've gotten value out of that
.
So they're ready then to workwith you.
They're like, okay, I got somuch great value from Sarah.
I know I want to work with herone-on-one and I'm even more
(18:16):
ready than I would have beenotherwise.
So it's kind of like a I don'twant to say it's like a strange
audience.
I think maybe some people don'tthink of that, but I love that
kind of thing.
Like you're just kind ofprepping people and you don't
need a ton of sales in that case.
So you don't need to sell.
You know, 500 copies of yourworkbook.
You know, if you sold a couple,it's basically like a paid lead
(18:38):
magnet in that case.
So it's not so much like thesales from the product that are
really like the income, but it's.
You know, you're kind ofpulling people in to working
with you one-on-one, being moreprepared, and then you know
you're charging that higher ratewith your service.
So I like that group.
Yeah, it's a gateway offer.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
It pulls people and prepares them to work with you.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Yeah, there's another group of people I really
haven't talked about much.
This came up recently and I wasthinking about recording
something about it but for theservice provider, who is a local
service provider, so theyprovide their service only in a
specific geographic region.
We think service providers alot of times.
We think marketing, webdevelopment, copywriting, things
like that, where you can kindof do it from anywhere, but a
(19:26):
local service provider, forexample, like a photographer,
like a makeup artist, somethinglike that where you're together
in the same room providing thatservice for them to be able to
create digital products andexpand their, their customer
base, basically without, youknow, leaving that geographic
area, so that's kind of ananother audience I've been
(19:46):
thinking about, but haven'treally kind of fleshed that out
yet.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
Yeah, I can see that that would also like if you were
to do that.
They would also be probablygood partnerships because they
have connections to other peoplethat are within that community
that would also want to buy thatthing.
Yeah, for sure.
So price points, what do thoselook like for digital products?
(20:13):
So price points, what do thoselook?
Speaker 3 (20:14):
like for digital products.
I think it really varies.
A couple just kind of broadstroke things to say about price
points.
I think with a first product,if it is something that is
smaller, keeping that cost lowerbut not too low, some people
will be like I want to sell thisfor $7, which is fine, but you
have to think about thatperceived value.
(20:35):
So if somebody is with a leadmagnet, for example, getting
something for free, oftentimeswe sign up for it and then we
never get around to it, but wedon't feel bad about it because
we didn't pay anything for it.
So it could be the same for adigital product.
So I like to advise that youjust talk to somebody, just talk
to a couple of colleagues.
(20:55):
I bet they will tell you toincrease the price.
You can always do a sale if youwant to, or a bundle If you
have more than one product, youcan bundle them together for a
certain cost.
Like there's a lot of things Ithink you can do with the
pricing.
I just don't love those likereally really really low, low
price products because I thinkthe perceived value is a little
(21:17):
bit, you know, kind of wacky.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Yeah, I would say the majority of the digital
products I run across arebetween like 27 and maybe 197.
You know everybody loves sevens, but yeah, exactly yeah, what
is it with that?
Yeah, somewhere between 20 and200 is where, like digital
products usually land, dependingon how robust they are.
(21:42):
Like when that is, 200 bucks isprobably fairly robust, a whole
bundle of things.
But you might get templates for30 bucks.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Yeah, and I think that you can also have that
product.
But you could have two or threelevels where, without you at
all, is X price, but the product, plus like a half an hour with
you, could be Y price, and sothat's not any.
It's not any.
I don't want to say additionalwork.
(22:19):
You're being compensated foryour work.
That one-on-one time, however,it just gives people another
option and I think I'm seeingpeople want a little bit more
accountability.
They maybe don't have the timeor the attention span to just
kind of buy something and gothrough it all on their own, but
if they know they have a callwith you or you know some sort
of office hours or you knowgroup YouTube live or whatever
(22:43):
it is you know they may be morelikely to purchase that and to
show up and to consume, becausereally we want people.
I think we want people toconsume the product, not just
buy it, because if they buy itand don't consume it, then like
you're not getting that word ofmouth, you're not getting a
repeat customer.
When you have new products oranything, you're just you just
got that sale.
But when people are consumingit, you're getting feedback,
(23:05):
you're getting testimonials,even even constructive criticism
.
You know to make your productbetter.
You're you're getting a lotmore from that when people are
going through your product andconsuming it.
So I think it's good to focuson that if you can, trying to
help people get through andlearn from your product.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
That would play really well with using it as a
gateway offer too, becauseyou're building trust with that
person.
You get that no like trustfactor because they're actually
experiencing what it's like towork with you, and that would
lead them to the bigger offer.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
Yeah, yeah, so that like just small, like you know,
half hour call or whatever it isyou know, to help you go
through that workbook that youjust bought, yeah, they, they
get to see you and kind ofexperience working with you.
And I, yeah, I do feel likethat.
I feel like when we can kind ofshow more of ourselves, people
are attracted to that andthey're like, okay, yes, she
knows what she's talking about.
I definitely want to work withher in the future and stay on
(24:01):
her email list and continue to,you know, follow her on social
media and engage and that helpsyou build that audience right,
like you're drawing people inyou know to the orbit.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Yeah Well, that's a great way to put it, cause I
always make it super awkward andI talk about my content.
Ecosystem is like a little bittighter of a hug.
We're shaking hands when youpurchase the digital product,
but then we get on a one-on-onecall A little, definitely a
little closer.
I love that, but you made itsound less creepy, so good for
(24:39):
you.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
I don't know where I got that from, but it's just
something that kind of sticks inmy mind.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Yes, you had one more thing on your list of touch
points.
Touch points Time managementwhen it comes to creating the
product and the marketing planaround it.
So walk me through that.
What would it look like?
What would creating yourmarketing plan around it look
(25:06):
like first, and how do you fitit in?
Speaker 3 (25:10):
I think even before that.
I think what happens is peopleare like I'm going to create a
product and then I'm going tostart to work on it.
I'm going to sit down and I'mgoing to work on it, and then
the client work comes in andfamily and other obligations,
and so you're just like it goesfurther and further down the
list and I think that we justdon't get around to it.
So I think there are a lot ofpeople out there who have half
(25:30):
started digital products butnever launched.
So I think that figuring outhow to set aside the time, like
what works for you, what isgoing to work for you in terms
of time, like do you alwaysblock off or can you block off
an hour or two hours maybe on acertain day of the week?
I like to do this earlier inthe week because I find that
(25:53):
when I do something on Mondays,I'm really proud of myself, and
then all week I'm like so proudof myself, I'm like, oh, I got
that done on Monday, I rule andI don't have to do it again
until next Monday.
So that's something I like todo.
I know not everybody can dothat, but I feel like earlier in
the week, earlier in the day,earlier in the month, whatever
it is.
If you can knock something out,I think you'll feel good about
(26:17):
it.
And then you'll want to keepgoing because you do feel good.
But also chunking it down intomanageable tasks.
So, a task create digitalproduct that's not a task You're
never going to check that off.
I mean, you're going to checkit off one day, far, far, far in
the future.
But you have to create thingsthat you can check off your list
.
So at the end of that 30minutes hour, two hour block,
(26:40):
whatever you've set aside, thatyou can check something off,
that you're made progress andwant to continue to make
progress, because otherwise Ithink it's kind of demoralizing.
You're like oh, I worked forthree hours.
I don't know what I did, Idon't know how much further I
(27:00):
have to go.
I just think that it's reallydifficult.
So chunking that down and Ikind of have like a sort of
five-step kind of thing Fivesteps and then another five
steps.
I don't know I'm working on thedetails, but figuring out who
your audience is, what winyou're getting for them, what
does this product actually looklike?
(27:22):
How long do you think it'sgoing to create?
So kind of doing this pre-workand this planning.
I know some people don't likeplanning, but I think it's
really important because onceyou create the plan, you just
follow the plan.
Oh, I don't even have to worry.
What am I do today?
Oh, the next thing on the list.
So once you get that productcreated, you know whether it's a
video or a workbook or whateveryou know getting some kind of
(27:45):
feedback around it.
You know showing it to people,maybe in exchange for a
testimonial, and while it's outthere, you know kind of.
You know people are looking itover, creating all of that stuff
around it, like what's thetitle of this product?
Some people do that first.
I'm not one of those people Ilike to.
It's like when I write an email, I don't write the subject.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
first I read the subject last.
Speaker 3 (28:06):
So, however, you do just like I don't know what this
email is about until it hascome out, I don't know what the
best subject is I mean first, isemail first, before I name it.
Exactly.
Yes, I'm in awe of people thatcan do it a different way.
So what is the price point thatyou have decided on?
You don't have to decide onthat until you've created the
product.
And then what are some thingsyou want to say about this
(28:27):
product?
Your launch marketing and thenyour ongoing marketing.
So your launch marketing yeah,your social posts, your emails
and hopefully you've beentalking about it all along, but
the very specific like it ishere.
You know get your discount orget your early adopter or
whatever it is.
But then also, you know takingsome time to like okay, I did
(28:50):
this, how did it go?
How did I feel about that?
Did I like this?
Did I not like this?
Did I do this for the rightreasons?
And then thinking about howyou're going to continue to talk
about it.
Because if you launch somethingon a Monday, you know a certain
number of people.
You're going to meet somebodynew on Tuesday and on Wednesday
and on Thursday, and if younever talk about that product
(29:12):
again, those people aren't goingto know about it.
So how can you continue to talkabout it?
Will it be in your emails?
Will it be in your social posts?
Will you be guesting onpodcasts, Will you be
participating in bundles, emailswaps, whatever those things are
that you think might be goodfor you?
If you're like I don't dopodcasts, don't put podcast
(29:33):
guesting as an avenue forpromoting yourself and your
product and problem awareness.
So, just thinking about that,what might be doable for you in
the future?
I think people just leave thatpart out.
They're like, oh, launch, done,Yay.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Over.
That's me, that's me.
I have launched a millennium,it's everybody.
And they sold really well.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
And then I was like well, the exciting part's over,
yes exactly, but I think it's soimportant because you created
it, so to keep talking about itand you don't have to talk about
it all the time every day, butyou know, to kind of keep it in
a regular rotation, I think isgood, because then you, I think
it's also exciting to see anysales.
(30:14):
So to see a sale, you know, ona random Thursday or whatever, I
think is exciting, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Yeah, putting it in the calendar, so it's
reoccurring and you remember todo it.
And I think it would be even ifyou're like me and you get
excited about the launch andthey're like nah, after that,
having it as part of yourecosystem, your offer ecosystem,
would make it so much easier,because then it becomes a
(30:40):
gateway offer to the next one.
There's a lot more motivationwhen you're like, okay, well,
this can turn into a high ticketsale.
It just starts here.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
Yeah, I like your emails too, because you have,
like at the bottom, like ways towork with me, like here are the
things that you can do and youknow different price points,
different options for people,and I love that.
It's just another option.
Another way to have people workwith you is a digital product.
Like here it is, I've created itIf this sounds good to you, you
know, and you kind of tell themabout it and you know,
(31:13):
hopefully you've done enoughprep work that you know it
solves an important problem.
You know the, the person thathas that problem, you know, I
think it just kind of workstogether, yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Yeah, well, I think.
Thank you, I'm glad you likedthat, and I think that email
signatures are an undervaluedsales mechanism.
Oh my gosh, I have gotten a lotof traction from adding calls
to action as a PS in mysignatures, in both my email
(31:45):
that is just like one-to-one andmy email marketing.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
Yes, that's important to note too, not just in your
email marketing system, but alsoin your regular email signature
, and it doesn't have to be asrobust, I feel, like in your
regular signature and you can dodifferent things with, like,
new emails versus replies.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
But don't forget that .
Yes, I have different calls toaction.
Based off of that, or who I'mtalking to, I might switch it
out, and it's such a passive wayof reminding people that you
have this offer available tothem.
Speaker 3 (32:21):
And those are reusable like blocks, right?
So you write three differentsignatures one time and then,
yes, as you're sending an email,you decide, okay, use this
signature, so you don't have toreinvent the wheel every time.
And the same thing wheneveryou're sharing about your
product, you don't have to like,okay, what am I going to say
about the product this week.
You can have like a contentbank or something to pull from
(32:44):
that you share.
And as you get sales andhopefully you're asking for
feedback, asking fortestimonials.
Those are great to use in yourmarketing as well.
So it's being done for you,just use it.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Yeah yeah, I have a content bank that I always pull
from whenever it's any salesoriented thing.
Objections are a huge one.
Thank yous thing.
Objections are a huge one.
Faqs, transformations, customerstories.
If you end up doing theone-to-one calls as an add-on
for your digital product, thenyou have personal stories and
(33:18):
things that they've said thatyou can pull into your content,
everything content.
Speaker 3 (33:24):
Exactly Record those calls too, so that you can go
through and kind of, you know,pull out some great quotes or
you know, even with theirpermission, I guess you could
pull out a short video snippet,like, yeah, definitely don't let
their words go to waste.
Because it's really hard, Ithink, for us to think of, and
maybe, maybe not so hard, butmaybe we can think of like, oh,
you need this product because X.
(33:45):
But when other people say it,they have a different point of
view, they have differentexperience, and I think that it
can resonate, because whensomebody else says it, then
another person can say, oh, Ifeel that way too, which is a
little bit different fromsomebody saying something who's
selling the product.
Yeah, I just think it'spowerful.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
It's more real because it's someone who
actually used it.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
Yes, yeah, so yeah again.
Going back to like you wantpeople to use the product, you
want people to have success withit.
It's not just about the sale.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Yeah, and, when it comes down to it, the more
people who are having successwith it, the more user generated
content you're going to get,the more you're going to talk
about it online.
Yes, yeah, yay, even better,yes, okay, can you tell everyone
how they can work with you andtell them about your podcast?
I'm a listener, by the way, Ifollow on Spotify.
Speaker 3 (34:38):
Yeah, oh, thanks.
Yeah.
So I have a podcast.
It's called your First DigitalProduct I know a very original
name and I have a couple ofdifferent types of episodes at
this point.
Some are solo episodes, someare interviews with people who
have digital products and thestory on how they launched them
and all the things that havecome up successes, failures and
(35:00):
lately I've been having someepisodes with people who are
just there to talk aboutsomething, to talk about
marketing, to talk about socialmedia.
I have one coming out tomorrow,at the time of this recording,
that is about courses.
I'm not a huge proponent ofcourses as a first product, but
many courses you could applythis to, and she has some just
(35:23):
really great tips on how to makesure that your course is
successful.
So I love talking to people,just kind of about all things.
So it's yfdpshow and you canfind it in all the places, apple
, spotify, wherever so that'sthe podcast.
My website isscenicroutedigitalcom and if you
go to scenicroutedigitalcom,slash tiny.
(35:44):
I have some resources that Iwill share with your audience.
Based on the things that wehave talked about today, I offer
a one-on-one service, basicallyjust helping you get your
product launched.
So I think that people can runinto some issues.
They just need somebody to talkto.
They need somebody to help themput that plan together.
We're great at putting planstogether for our clients, but
(36:07):
when it comes to ourselves we'relike wait, what, what do we do?
And so I think, just havingsomebody to talk to and like
what platform should I use andcan you test this for me?
And just basically things likethat.
So I work with peopleone-on-one.
I don't have any digitalproducts related to this yet.
I know we're getting kind ofmet up, but because I'm building
(36:28):
my audience and kind of tryingto practice what I preach, you
know, hoping that as I talk tomy audience more, they will let
me know what they want to knowabout digital products.
So, again, kind of meta, butthat's.
That's kind of the offeringright now.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Well, awesome, All right guys.
Those links will be in the shownotes page so you can check her
out and figure out what yourfirst digital product should be.
Thank you for joining me.
Linkedin is your, is yoursocial media place, Is that
right?
I'm on.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
LinkedIn.
I'm on Instagram, YouTube.
I have the podcast on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
I'm in the places I can give you links All the
places It'll be in the shownotes.
So thank you, awesome.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so so much forjoining me in this episode all
about creating your firstdigital product.
I hope you got some cool ideasand realize it's not that hard.
(37:29):
You can take some of the thingsthat already exist within your
business ecosystem and you canturn it into a digital product
to find a scalable, new,slightly more passive way to
create income.
So yay for that.
If you enjoyed this episode,please go follow Renee for one
(37:49):
on LinkedIn and for two,subscribe, like and comment on
this episode wherever you'rewatching or listening to it.
I appreciate you and I'm sograteful that you choose to
spend your weeks with me,listening to my little voice
chirping in your ear.
I will see you next time forepisode 120.
(38:12):
All right bye.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
You love all things tiny marketing.
Head down to the show notespage and sign up for the wait
list to join the tiny marketingclub, where you get to work
one-on-one with me withtrainings, feedback and pop-up
coaching that will help youscale your marketing as a B2B
(38:35):
service business.
So I'll see you over in theclub.
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