April 18, 2023 • 44 mins
Chris Jolly (The Freight Coach) is a broker who has found great success in his podcast for the transportation industry (Coffee w/#The Freight Coach). He is a passionate professional with extensive experience in leadership, multi-mode direct sales, freight management, business development, and proven growth in a highly competitive segment of the transportation industry.
In Episode 7 of Banyan’s Tire Tracks™ podcast, Chris discusses how consistent communication with shippers and carriers goes hand-in-hand with customer loyalty for brokers in the shipping industry.
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Episode Transcript
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Announcer (00:07):
Welcome to Tire Tracks, a Banyan Technology
podcast driving the logisticsindustry. And now your host,
Patrick Escolas.
Patrick Escolas (00:15):
Hey, how you doing, Freight Coach? For
everybody out there that mightbe listening or watching, this
is Patrick Escolas with theBanyan Technology podcast, Tire
Tracks. I am delighted to haveChris Jolly, the Freight Coach.
There's a hashtag in theresomewhere. Chris, how you doing?
Chris Jolly (00:33):
I'm doing well.
Thank you so much for coming on- inviting me on - to come and
chat today. I'm really lookingforward to it.
Patrick Escolas (00:39):
I am too. I watch your stuff as much as I
can. Especially since now I'mdeep in in the logistics
industry. I did not come from itand I needed some sources of
what what's going on, what am Igetting myself into, and the
orange shirt definitely was theway to go.
Chris Jolly (00:58):
It's it's funny because I went I went into
business for myself. I, at thattime, I'm like, alright, how do
I stand out in a crowd? You'vebeen to conferences before, I've
been to conferences. Everybody'sdressed the same, right? It's a
it's that light blue undershirtwith...
Patrick Escolas (01:13):
Yeah, like I work at Best Buy. I've got it
right here. Yeah, I'm ready togo.
Chris Jolly (01:17):
Everywhere. And I was like, if I'm gonna go into
business for myself, I got tostand out in a crowd. I'm like,
I already wear polos because Icome from a small town. So like,
dude, I'm dressed up in a polo.
Like, that's my mentality,right?
Patrick Escolas (01:28):
Well, plus, there's no there's no ironing
needed. You don't know if you'veworn it once or three times.
It's ready to go.
Chris Jolly (01:34):
Yeah. So I bought six orange polos. And I'm like,
really weird.
Patrick Escolas (01:38):
Separately, or did you get a nice little
bulk-like Walmart pack?
Chris Jolly (01:40):
Nah, dude, I Under Armour. I got three there at
first and then my wife's like,I'm sick of washing these during
the week. She's like, you needto buy more and I'm like,
alright! So, you know, splurgebought three more. And, you
know, so yeah, I do actuallychange throughout the week. And
dude, I just went orange becauseI'm just like, okay, I gotta
(02:01):
stand out in a crowd. How am Igoing to get anybody to remember
me, especially building a brand,building a company up? That's
like, the biggest thing is it'slike how do I get noticed? Well,
blazers, polo, rock backwardshat and be willing to make a
fool of yourself on camera.
Patrick Escolas (02:16):
Well, I have the make a fool of myself on
camera thing down. I was justsay the orange, we know you
didn't pick it because you're aBrowns fan, as we talked about
before this. You were for theTwins and my Guardians, we get
to play each other quite a bit.
But, we'll put those put thoseaside just for a little. We'll
have plenty of time to ask eachother throughout the season, I'm
sure. I'll pretend like I'mprofessional at this. So, wanted
(02:40):
start since I've got you onhere, nobody wants to hear about
me. When you talked aboutstarting the business on your
own, making it stand out. Wheredo you come from? Like, I mean,
I'm sure I could Wiki you insome bullet points, but give me
give me your elevator pitch.
What's the what's the ChrisJolly rags-to-riches story right
here?
Chris Jolly (02:59):
Well, still in the rags phase...
Patrick Escolas (03:02):
Orange rags, though!
Chris Jolly (03:03):
Orange, orange rags. Riches are coming. But
it's.. man, I come from theindustry. So, I come from a
family of truck drivers. When mygreat grandparents immigrated
here from Germany back in thelate '20s, early '30s They
started a trucking company. Andthen that turned into my dad
driving. He was an owner-op. Heowned his own trucking company
for about 40 years. And I gotinto the industry. I like I
(03:27):
always wanted to drive growingup like ever since I was a
little kid. But even still, tothis day, the smell of diesel
fuel and a jake brake are aboutthe most nostalgic things ever
for me because every time I heara jake brake, because like we
lived on a little hill, so likewhen my dad has come home from
the road, he he'd smash his Jakebrake to slow down his truck.
So, I always think like Dad'shome. It's really weird how that
(03:49):
happens even to this day.
Patrick Escolas (03:51):
And I the rest of us on the road are like, Oh
God, what's happening? Daddy?!
Chris Jolly (03:58):
And yeah, so I I got into it, you know? I wanted
to drive and my dad, I think asmost parents, don't want their
kids to like, follow in theirfootsteps because my dad knew
the reality of the industry. Andhe wanted more for me and his
big line was is "I want you towork with your brain and not
your back". That doesn't saythat I didn't pick up a shovel
(04:21):
at five years old because I did.
I've done...
Patrick Escolas (04:24):
Children are great cheap labor, if any parent
will tell you.
Chris Jolly (04:27):
Yeah, So you know, I've definitely done my fair
share of manual labor throughoutmy life. And I got into the
industry just in sales, and Iwanted to just do anything and
everything. And you know, at theend of the day, I was like,
well, I want to work in sales.
I'm like, I don't want to wear asuit. I hate suits, even to this
day. My wife hates it that Ihate suits, but she's she's
(04:51):
accepted the fact that veryrarely will I put one on.
Patrick Escolas (04:56):
You give her two, three days a year. Right?
Chris Jolly (04:58):
Yeah, absolutely -- at max. And so yeah, I just
thought, you know what I want todo, I don't want to do
something, but I want to beinvolved in a blue collar
industry. Because like, thoseare my people. You know, like,
I'm from a town of 1,800 innorthern Wisconsin. Like, I only
know blue collar people --that's my entire family -- those
are my people. So, I was like,alright, I'm gonna get into the
(05:18):
industry this way. So, I was abroker. You know, like, I
started off loading trucks incollege, because like, they
worked second shift, and theypaid a lot of decent -- 12 bucks
an hour. So to a 19-20 year old,that's a lot of money. Yeah,
so...
Patrick Escolas (05:32):
UPS UPS came to my campus and tried to you know,
our schedule was almost aroundthe UPS season was like, hey,
you want to have a big breakwhen we need to hire all of your
students? All right. And you canafford drinking in winter? If
you Yes, yeah.
Chris Jolly (05:47):
Dude, absolutely.
So, I did that. And then Igraduated from college, and I
got a job at a freightbrokerage. So, I packed up my
truck, I was living in northernWisconsin. I packed up my truck,
and I headed out to Reno,Nevada. My older, my older
brother lived out there. And Iwent out to visit one summer in
college. And I was like, this isnot the cornfields of northern
Wisconsin, I got here. Great,great time to get away, though,
(06:11):
and experience life outside ofthe bubble. And I think that
most people, even if you comeback, even if you come back to
your hometown, get out andexplore a little bit, as you
might find yourself along thatjourney. And you know, and so
yeah, I just got in, and I was abroker for a long time. And then
(06:31):
right at the beginning of thepandemic, I actually resigned
from my job. It was, I resigned,because like, I wanted to go try
something new. I felt like I hadaccomplished everything I could,
as a broker. And I was like, Iwant to go work for a trucking
company. I want to sell overthere. I want to learn assets.
And then I'll take my 15 to 17years experience at that time,
(06:54):
and I'll make a C-suite play oneday.
Patrick Escolas (06:58):
Was that was that crazy? 'Cuz, you know, as
we're looking back now, wasn't,isn't that like the height of
broker games for a minute thereduring that COVID stretch? Like,
we're there times when you'relike, what did I do? Or, was it
you were pretty solid with withyour decision the whole time?
Chris Jolly (07:17):
Oh, no, I was terrified. Because I resigned
before like, like, COVID wasthere, but it wasn't shut down.
Patrick Escolas (07:26):
Right.
Chris Jolly (07:27):
I resigned on a Monday and by Thursday, that's
when things hit the fan. Andthen everything shut down that
Friday in unison. Everybody whowanted to interview me -- hey,
we got to shelve this 'tillJuly.
Patrick Escolas (07:38):
Yeah, no one's hiring anything, yeah.
Chris Jolly (07:39):
I had just moved to Arizona with my wife and my son
three months prior. So, I'm outof a job beginning of a pandemic
and I'm like, what am I going todo here? Like, I don't know how
this is going to go.
Fortunately, I had a little bitof money saved up -- like not,
hey, I'm good for four years,but like, I got six months.
Patrick Escolas (07:58):
Yeah.
Chris Jolly (07:58):
That's literally what it was man is like, I'm
like, I got six months and Iwill take everything I've saved
down to zero if I have to. Butthat's what I got involved on
social media. And I was like,seeing a bunch of posts out
there and I'm like, okay, thiscan't be real. I'm like, either,
I was absolutely terrible at myjob, or it's easiest call a
(08:23):
shipper. They give you a milliondollars, you find a trucking
company, and you're amillionaire overnight. And I'm
like this, this isn't right. Andso I took it from there, and
then I'm like, why is nobodytalking about the realities of
the industry? Why is it thiscookie- cutter, just do this and
everything will be alright. I'mlike, what happens if you have a
damaged product? Or what do youdo if if a driver takes out a
(08:46):
fence at a shipper? Or what doyou do if there's a driver that
gets shut down over the winterdue to a road closure? Nobody's
talking about that. So that'swhere I started angling my
content is I'm like, alright, Iwasn't that good at this job --
clearly. So I'm gonna starttalking about my experience.
Turns out a lot of peoplealigned with what I was saying.
(09:09):
Because you know, what thestruggle is in sales are real
cold calling is not easy. Coldprospecting is not easy. And I
was like, you know, I'm justgonna go out there and talk
about this.
Patrick Escolas (09:19):
Now, and that's it. Amen to that, because that's
what I look into. I come fromthe sales background before
logistics. And one thing that Ican tell you is that if you look
at it, everybody with a podcastand everybody on LinkedIn is the
most successful, easiest ride tosuccess they've ever had and
they got $48 million coming in,and they started just two years
(09:40):
ago. And you're like, wow, youknow, I've been calling 70
people a day and I'm still rent-- rent still sucks, but yeah,
yeah, no, no, and that's what itwas funny. I think I just
answered a poll on something theother day. It was like, hey,
would you watch a sales podcaston this and be like.. No, I want
to see the losses and the shitshow that happen in-between
(10:01):
those crazy wins that somebodygets, because that's where
that's where the real lessonsare, or that's where the real
knowledge like... I think youwere saying, I watched one of
them, were you talking about howthe price has gone up from I
think Tampa to Atlanta. And thenyou brought up the fact that,
hey, but it's going to becheaper going the other way. And
that's one of those things thatthose little things that I who's
(10:23):
-- who's talking in granulardetail specifically about, hey,
here's a way that you can gainsomething from here. And I think
you do a great job with howyou're talking and who you're
talking to. Because you're notsaying, Hey, look at me, I'm so
good at this. You're like, no,here's the reality of it.
Here's, here's the day in andday out. Here's what happens
when shipments go bad. So it...
Chris Jolly (10:45):
To me though, dude, it's because like, that's just
what's missing in social mediaas a whole, like...
Patrick Escolas (10:50):
The reality?
Chris Jolly (10:51):
Yeah, real -- real life. And that's what I like,
because that's what I startedposting about stuff all the time
and like, but that's also, atthe same time, why I don't talk
about the controversialthis-and-that carriers against
brokers against shippers,because people are so focused on
vanity metrics, but I'm like,listen, I know, I'm not the only
(11:11):
one out there struggling insales. I know, I'm not the only
one out there who didn't knowhow to freight read a freight
market at one point in time. So,I want to put information out
there that people can actuallyapply to their business, because
there's so much opportunitythat's out there, there's so
much opportunity. But again, somany people are like to try and
(11:31):
be so polarizing. It's eitherthey're -- they're the best, or
it's the Debbie Downer effect,where they're just posting like,
what you think of like, Eeyore,you know? Like, oh, it's the
worst day of the week. It's not,you know?
Patrick Escolas (11:44):
That that could mean me. I could be Eeyore or
the guy right in the sunshine,depending on what time of the
day you catch me. And somewherein between. That's the average.
But I mean, you're, you're soright with it. It's the middle.
Like, what happened to being inthe middle and being just not
average, but finding the happymedium, being the enemy somehow?
(12:07):
You don't have to be at eitherside of it.
Chris Jolly (12:09):
Yeah, dude. Because it's like, I guess there's also
me just talking about what I'mgoing through. Because I
bootstrap everything, I'm selffunded. I don't have investors,
I don't have a golden parachute,like everything.
Patrick Escolas (12:21):
So you don't have an agenda that you're
trying to push while you'redoing.
Chris Jolly (12:24):
No, not at all. I'm talking about what I go through
out there. Because, you know, atthe end of the day, not
everybody has investor capital.
Not everybody has, you know,venture capitalists willing to
throw millions and millions ofdollars at them. But that
doesn't mean that you need thatto succeed, right? You know, and
I am just out here legitimately,putting out what I'm going
(12:47):
through every single day onevery phase of everything,
because I started in my bedroom.
And this is why I leave all ofmy early content up there. I
want people to see where itstarted.
Patrick Escolas (12:59):
Right!
Chris Jolly (12:59):
Because that's like one of the things like a DM that
I've been getting a lot. Like,Fortunately, I have advertisers
and you know, for my content,and everything, but like I get I
get DMs from people. and they'relike, hey, I want to start a
podcast, how do I getadvertising? And it's like, man,
it's not that easy. You know,like, go back to day one and
(13:20):
look at how for a year straight,I put out podcast, videos
content every single day --before I got my first
advertiser. And even then,thankfully, they were like, we
love what you're doing. We seethe future value of what you're
doing. And they and they andthey got on board with that, you
(13:40):
know? So it's like Trucker Toolswas my first advertiser and
Emerge came on shortly afterthat, and I am forever grateful
for those because they kept megoing. If it wasn't for those
people, if it wasn't for Prasadand Andrew Leto believing in
what I was on for my mission, Idon't know if I'd be here today.
Patrick Escolas (14:01):
You'd still be like, I got something else to
do. This isn't this isn't gonnabring the bills and pay the
bills.
Chris Jolly (14:07):
Exactly. Because dude, I broke even every
single... No, I broke even. Ilost money for the first six
months I broke even from months7 to 13 or 14.
Patrick Escolas (14:22):
Okay.
Chris Jolly (14:22):
And then I made a little bit of money after that
fact. Like, up until last yearand 2022, that was the first
year I actually made a littlebit of money and I still haven't
like, actually taken money fromthis. Like...
Patrick Escolas (14:36):
You're like, I'm still not paying me. I'm
still the most underpaidemployee at the Freight Coach.
Chris Jolly (14:41):
Yeah! But that's just what happens out there,
though. And it's like, if youwant to achieve these things,
you know, it's a lot harder thanyou think. But it is so much
more rewarding at the exact sametime. And it's the same thing in
sales to man and like when youyou're building your book of
business is, it takes so muchlonger than you want it to. And
(15:06):
that is why you have to valueevery single customer that pays
you. Because now, man, that'show I like, that's how I feed my
family. That's how I put a roofover my kid's head. I don't take
any relationship for granted, Ican't just find another
advertiser or find anothershipper to work with. That's,
that's, that's food on my son'splate right there.
Patrick Escolas (15:28):
Yeah, so much, so much of it is is that true
relationship to like, you know,you, you have who you are. And
as those people supported you,it wasn't they -- and I assume
-- that they weren't coming inand saying, hey, man, we need
you to turn your podcast into afull Trucker Tools, that needs
to be everything you talked to,they're liking what you're
(15:48):
doing, and it's gonna grow withyou.
Chris Jolly (15:50):
Fortunately, that's exactly what it was. And, you
know, I've always had the stanceof this, where it's like, I'm
going to speak my mind on thingslike I don't play the the
extreme game on either side, I'mjust going to put my honest
opinion out there on stuff. AndI believe in the First Amendment
-- if you listen to my stuff,you clearly understand that I
(16:12):
do. But you know, like, my wholething is, is this like, I just
want to put an unfilteredopinion out there that somebody
can't look at it and say, andthat's coming from somewhere
else.
Patrick Escolas (16:24):
Right! It's just Chris Jolly.
Chris Jolly (16:26):
Yeah. And, you know, again, I'm just, I've
taken that stance. Andfortunately, I think that when
people don't put out thatfacade, you know, that, hey,
I'm, I'm perfect at everything.
When you actually go with whoyou are as a person, without
fear of repercussion, like,yeah, I get it. I swear a lot,
okay? I'm very aware of that. Idon't need anybody to tell me.
(16:51):
But this is who I am. If youhad...
Patrick Escolas (16:55):
Nobody, nobody doubts that. No, like, there's
no, there's no thought that man,there's a team of five guys
writing-up what he's sayingday-in and day-out and putting
on this persona. Absolutely. No-- that the real comes through.
Chris Jolly (17:07):
Yeah. And you know, because again, like, I just
think like, that's what you, youjust need to unapologetically be
yourself, you know? And it's,and it's always so simple to say
it in this setting, right? Likewhen you say that nothing is
alive.
Patrick Escolas (17:24):
Yeah, yeah.
Chris Jolly (17:25):
But I promise you, if you live that life every
single day, it is so liberating,man. Like, I just like
everybody, I'm a human being Istruggled with confidence. I
struggled with everything for along time, until I stopped
caring, like I care very muchabout other people I truly do.
But, what somebody else'sopinion is, is not going to
(17:48):
deter me anymore, and it used toso much.
Patrick Escolas (17:51):
You can only control what you can control,
and usually, that's just you.
Chris Jolly (17:54):
Yeah, absolutely.
Patrick Escolas (17:56):
So and I appreciate all that. How does
all of this on your podcast, howdoes that translate to your
brokerage? Like, does that gohand-in-hand with that? Or, is
there a time where you've got tokind of turn your brain one way
to social and one way tobrokerage or give me a look,
give me an idea of has it helpedyou grow it? I mean, in my
thought, that's an easy, youknow, softball, of course, but
(18:20):
at the same time, what are someof the other obstacles with
being both things?
Chris Jolly (18:25):
Um, I think that you're going to attract your
tribe, no matter what. Like, theonly obstacle that there is at
times is like, if I get an emailwhen I'm live or something like
that, and I'm like, I'm like,he, like, want to look at it...
Patrick Escolas (18:42):
You're like, podcast, please hold on. I need
to make money over here. Onesecond.
Chris Jolly (18:46):
That's the thing, man is, like, when I'm an
independent, I can do that. Andmy audience would love that.
Patrick Escolas (18:53):
Phil, understand...
Chris Jolly (18:54):
Yeah!
Patrick Escolas (18:55):
Yeah. Hold on, I've got an email. We're gonna
book a live load right now.
Yeah, exactly.
Chris Jolly (18:59):
That's, that's exactly it. But that's also one
of the main driving forces why Istopped consulting got back into
it. Because like, I was goingback and forth for a long time,
and like, how do I bring morevalidity to what I'm saying?
Because I wasn't, I wasn'tsecond guessing myself. But I'm
like, I don't want anybody toever listen to my stuff and be
(19:22):
like, yeah, clearly, you knowwhat you're talking about, but
you're a consultant -- like youdon't really get it.
Patrick Escolas (19:27):
You You don't want to talk too much in the
hypotheticals. You want it to begrounded in a very real examples
of what someone could do todayif they picked up the phone 20
seconds from now.
Chris Jolly (19:37):
Absolutely. So I legitimately put my money where
my mouth was and I startedFreight Coach Logistics, and I'm
going for it and everything Italk about is literally what I'm
doing inside of my business. Sowhen I hit $25 million in
revenue, you guys are going towitness it. You guys are going
to hear everything that I'mdoing the entire time. When I go
from $25 to $100. Samesituation. When I go from $100
(19:59):
to a billion in the first 10years, same situation you guys.
Everything that I am deliveringis what I'm applying. But that's
the hard part of it all man isthe application of it. You know,
because I interview shippers allthe time on my stuff like
fortunate. Fortunately, theseshippers, I have a secret
shipper audience that runs deep.
I can't say who they are.
Patrick Escolas (20:22):
Or else everybody would be calling them
to be like, hey, hear you'reworking with the Freight Coach
-- we can do better than that.
Chris Jolly (20:27):
Yeah, but no, it's not even that. It's just they
love my content. Because they'llask me questions. They're like,
hey, I saw your video I had thishappen. What did this actually
mean? So I'm like, alright, hereyou go. But, I've been able to
interview actual large, largeshippers on my stuff. I am very
fortunate to have friends thatare on that side of the fence
that are willing to come on andthey lay out literally
(20:49):
everything you need to do. Likejust this past week, I had two
enterprise shippers on mypodcast. They, if you apply
everything that they say it'sgoing to take time, you will
build a seven-figure businessbased off of the information
that they gave you and that andthose two episodes that are
about a total of an hour and ahalf of your time.
Patrick Escolas (21:10):
Damn.
Chris Jolly (21:11):
Like, no joke, man.
Like, these guys laid out how toprospect better, how to grow
with an enterprise level accountbetter, how to position yourself
to break in with a shipper with75 nationwide facilities -- they
laid it all out there. All outthere -- and you just have to
apply with what they say.
Patrick Escolas (21:29):
That's crazy.
And that's awesome that you canyou offer that as a kind of a
value add through not onlyanybody listening, but at the
same time, you're hearing that.
So as you're talking to yourshippers, you're like saying
hey, shipper, big, big shipper Ahere did this. Or is that
something you're going to begoing down in the future? Kind
of, though you're like you saidyou're not consulting you kind
(21:50):
of are from a very vague andgeneral perspective, through the
podcast.
Chris Jolly (21:54):
In a sense, it's, you know, to me, it's it's
putting that information, again,it's putting that information
out there for people that needit. That, you know, actually
have everything on the line justlike I do, you know. Because I
view whether it's anentrepreneur who goes out and
starts their own truckingcompany or their own brokerage,
if you have everything on theline, to try and live your
(22:17):
American dream, like the rightinformation, because there's I'm
not trying to sell a course,right? Like, I'm not trying to
sell a course to anybody at all.
Patrick Escolas (22:24):
You're not coming to the Holiday Inn and
talking here?
Chris Jolly (22:27):
Absolutely not. And I refuse. I've been approached
numerous times, like -- youshould create a course. I said,
absolutely not. I'm gonnacontinue to give away everything
for free. T
Patrick Escolas (22:34):
There's a few hypnotists I know that that you
guys could team up, you couldlose weight, quit smoking, and
and increase your freightefficiency at the same time, you
know?
Chris Jolly (22:44):
100%? Because I, for me, it's like, nothing I'm
doing is proprietary, right?
Like at the end day, nothing'sproprietary.
Patrick Escolas (22:53):
This is the Freight Coach secret -- dial
dial in now, two easy paymentsof $19.99 and we'll give you
the, the real gems.
Chris Jolly (23:02):
Yeah, absolutely not. And I'm just on, like
putting that information outthere. Again, yes, I have
advertisers. I hope you guys allgo to Trucker Tools, and vHub
and SPI Logistics. You guys doall of that and support them.
Um, but I'm gonna put this outno matter what. Like, again,
back to what I was sayingearlier, I did this for free for
(23:22):
a long time. It won't happen.
But if it did, and everythingwent away tomorrow, I'm going to
continue to do this because mymission isn't what can I gain
from this because if it was, Iwould only be posting
controversial stuff that woulddrive my metrics through the
roof.
Patrick Escolas (23:36):
And you'd have sold out, you'd have picked up
whoever's paying your bill andthey're pushing their agenda
early on. Exactly.
Chris Jolly (23:43):
I could easily, easily 10x My engagement if I
took that route, but I'm notgoing to. Like, I've already
seen the growth. I already havea legitimately a ranked podcast
on iTunes. I don't, I don't needto do anything different than
what I'm doing. And I'm going tocontinue to do that, because
there are hard working men andwomen of this industry that
(24:04):
listen to my stuff that actuallyare able to make decisions that
are going to benefit them at nocost to them outside of
listening to this voice forabout 35 minutes or whatever.
Patrick Escolas (24:16):
It's a high cost. But no, no, no. But yes,
the blue collar are your people.
And that's that's what you'redoing it for No, I I respect
that. And I you see that in thecontent you put out. So you're
talking about like 10x-ingsomething and you talked about
those, those shippers that areyou know, that could really show
you that way forward, if youwere listening or watching. What
are some of the innovations orsome of the technology that
(24:40):
they're doing? As you say, youknow, we're not pushing
something specifically, what aresome of the common denominators
that you're seeing in thesegrowth for the shippers? What
are, from a technologicalperspective? Hi, I'm from Banyan
-- we're going to talk about atsome point. But right now, just
from from that, but what doesthat look like to you? Like,
what are what are three youknow, three things that are
(25:00):
innovative in the logistics ortransportation industry right
now that that are worth worthlooking out for are already
here, they're just gonna getbigger?
Chris Jolly (25:09):
I personally think so I've said this. I said this
with Alan when Alan was on mypodcast, that as...
Patrick Escolas (25:16):
He's bald, but he talks a little more than I
do. But, I love him for it. Ifit wasn't, if it wasn't for the
fact that he'd be talking alittle more, you might, you
might think we're the same. No,you'd never -- I've got a much
better beard than he does. He'smy boss, I'm just ripping...
Chris Jolly (25:33):
I have to say this.
I have to say this while I can.
Yeah. But no, man -- I thinklike, I was talking with him
about this, like, 95% of my dayas a freight broker should be
automated, right? Like,legitimately, I shouldn't be
manually building loads, Ishouldn't be manually accepting
tenders, load updates throughtracking should be automatically
sent over. API integrations,whatever you want to do to
(25:56):
automate everything you should-- except for those intangible
moments that customers need tohear from you, right? Like, a
customer should never call mybrokerage, or my business and
get a busy tone, or a no answer,or a voicemail, Right? Because
(26:20):
they should hear from me, first.
No matter what, as crappy as thesituation might be, they should
hear from me first -- just likemy carriers. Right? If there's a
delay, they should hear from me.
Patrick Escolas (26:33):
Is that something you've always had in
place, since you were a broker?
Before everything
Chris Jolly (26:36):
No.
Patrick Escolas (26:36):
Is that something? Yeah. When did when
that thought process come foryou?
Chris Jolly (26:41):
I learned the hard way, man. I just like with
everything. Like, you know,there's a lot of value in
adversity -- there really is.
Patrick Escolas (26:49):
The trial and error of life and the wisdom
gained by getting through it.
Chris Jolly (26:53):
Absolutely, man, because you'll never know until
you lose a customer because ofsomething you failed to do.
Right? And it's never thesituation that upsets them,
because -- especially intrucking -- anybody who's been
in this industry for a longtime... fully aware. Even if
you're newer... fully aware.
Things happen. But what nobodycan ever tolerate is why they
(27:16):
never were notified thatsomething happened, right?
Patrick Escolas (27:23):
It's the expectation of communication.
Chris Jolly (27:25):
Yeah, in the same thing. And as brokers, you know,
to me, it's like, we have toplay both sides. Carriers and
customers are just as important-- they're one A and one B to
me. And if there's a delay at ashipper, for whatever reason or
a receiver, the driver shouldnever have to reach out to me
every 30 minutes to find outwhat's going on. I should be
(27:47):
reaching out to them, right?
Hey, listen, no update is stillan update, right? They still
hear from you. Because again,people need to know that you
actually care, right? Like, itdoesn't matter if it's a weekend
pickup, like, man, I've hadweekend, which we call it
pickups, you know, 6am 7amdriver arrives, the weekend crew
was late to load, you know? Forwhatever reason. Chances are
(28:10):
they you know, closed anestablishment down the night
before.
Patrick Escolas (28:15):
Yeah.
Chris Jolly (28:16):
But I have to be there to answer their calls and
to call them to let them know,like, hey, I'm on it, we're
working on it. Just like ifthere's a delay going into a
shipper for whatever reason, youknow? Hey, listen -- we're in
contact with the driver, this iswhere they are, you know,
whether whatever it is. it'sgoing to be okay. That's all
they need. They don't need tohave them reach out to you to
(28:40):
find out, uh, let me look intothat quick. Those are like your
your committing just like thebiggest egregious act at that
moment in their eyes.
Patrick Escolas (28:52):
No, and that's where, so that's it's funny, you
bring that up. It's notnecessarily knowing if shit's
going wrong, or if something'sgone wrong, it's letting them
know ahead of time that, hey,I'm on it. Or this is what this
is what needs to happen, orthere's something going on --
I'm looking into it.
Chris Jolly (29:10):
Yeah.
Patrick Escolas (29:11):
And that kind of brings me to another point I
wanted to bring up. You know,visibility is such this key word
throughout the entire industry,whether it's on the technology,
whether it's on the broker side,and everybody talks about
visibility as just far as thatlike, hey, where's your truck?
Where's your load? Everythinglike that. But one of the things
that we've been doing or lookinginto is, more importantly, what
(29:34):
about the visibility on gettingtowards that, like those
decisions. The more, you knowhow in manufacturing, you're,
you're moving towards leanmanufacturing. Where's the
visibility there that's going tobring it towards lean
distribution or leantransportation? Because sure,
yeah, all right --it's late,whatever, big deal. I know where
it is, you know? More lookingback at it, where are we --
(29:56):
where are we spending thosedollars and why are we spending
them that way? Is is one onething that I think within
because like you're saying, onthe automation, sure, it's there
on a few of these, you want toknow, the the exceptions or the
hey, there's a fire I gotta putout somewhere. But, where are
from the grand scheme of thingsare we making these decisions?
(30:18):
What are and what are you seeingwithin that that not only, you
know, from day to day, it'sreally easy to get lost, and I
just gotta move this load, butas you look back at it from a
quarter to a year, how, how doyou look at it? Or how does the
industry look at it as what kindof visibility are we trying to
get from that? What kind ofdecisions can be made better?
Chris Jolly (30:38):
So this might be controversial to say, but I
don't think it's ever...
Patrick Escolas (30:42):
From you, Chris?
Chris Jolly (30:43):
I know, right? I don't think it's ever as
volatile as people want toproclaim.
Patrick Escolas (30:49):
Okay.
Chris Jolly (30:50):
I think that it's what's volatile is your emotion
in the moment of not wanting tolose money.
Patrick Escolas (30:58):
Amen to that.
Chris Jolly (30:59):
I think that's the biggest driving force behind a
lot of things. Or youmiss-quoted a load and you don't
want to take that L. So, yougive the load back, you make up
some BS excuse about how a truckbroke down, or, you know, they
blew a tire or they're not well,whatever. You know, I personally
think 95% of the problems thatbrokers have are self-inflicted,
you know? I truly do. And Ithink that the markets, even
(31:22):
through COVID, the marketoperated identically, dang near
identically as it has over thelast 10 years. 18-month cycle.
The only thing that was volatilewas the extreme that the rates
went up. That was the only thingthat was different.
Patrick Escolas (31:41):
That is controversial, Chris.
Chris Jolly (31:43):
I know it is. I know it is, because here's the
thing (31:46):
'19, 2019, was not the best freight market, right?
Overall. 2020, things bottomedout, right? But, after
everything started opening backup, the market went up, right?
If you look at that, you couldargue, you know, September to
November of 2020, is when ratesstarted really starting to shoot
(32:09):
up. They held firm all of '21.
And beginning phase, you know, Iwould say it held onto about May
of 2022. So, what does thatequal -- 18 to 20 some months?
Patrick Escolas (32:23):
Yeah.
Chris Jolly (32:24):
If you look back at any freight market, it's
anywhere from 18 to 24 months ishow long it lasts. The only
volatility of it was the ratesshot through the roof. That's
where the biggest thing lied.
And that's because it blewanalysts budgets, everybody's
out the door because it waslike, Oh, my gosh, when there is
(32:48):
pandemonium, people acted theway that people do, right? You
want me to do that? $8 mileshippers like I gotta have this
on the shelves. All right, payit. And then it just kept going
and kept going and kept going.
And then about May June of 2022.
All of a sudden, there's not abackup at the port anymore.
(33:10):
Customers are realizing that oh,wow -- we panic bought our
inventories sky high. We're notgoing to send out a 10-pallet
full truckload anymore. We'regoing to go back to LTL, or
we're going to partial that. Andthings started to calm down. And
(33:30):
the thing is, is most peoplerode that high, right? When it's
easy, man, everyone can sell,right? Anyone can sell when the
markets like that. But the factof the matter is, is it operated
the way that it always does. Theonly outlier was the how high
prices were for equipment andeverything else, and how high
(33:54):
the rates shot up. But themarket performed the way that
the market always performs.
Patrick Escolas (34:03):
That's, I like your perspective on that. And I
expect nothing less as far ascontroversial, and then backed
up with some, some good datathere. I like that.
Chris Jolly (34:12):
Yeah.
Patrick Escolas (34:13):
So as you were saying, and this is you're
talking about, you know, you'renot moving in a truck anymore.
Maybe you are moving an LTL orlooking at parcel. I mean, how,
you know, within that kind ofthe different modes you're going
through within like multi-modemanagement, what, what do you
see with that? Is that somethingwhere, you know, there's still
(34:35):
times where it's going to bebecause within our process here,
that's something that we've,we've taken a big a big swing
at. And we do because ideallyand one day, we want to look at
we want to look at load, youknow, load management, where
there's some automation andgoing, hey, how should you be
moving this versus just going,hey, let me look at it at
(34:56):
Truckload. Now that's a littletoo much -- we're looking at a
partial load, but then inreality, there might have been,
you move half of it in LTL, anda little bit of it in parcel.
And that might be the smartest,fastest way. So as far as now
that we've got, you know,capacities out there, and we
have what, you know, on anygiven day three modes for if,
(35:17):
depending on how you break itup? How do you define how you
send things out? How do you froma brokerage standpoint, look at
it as the Freight Coach? How doyou think about these different
modes from get to point A topoint B?
Chris Jolly (35:30):
I think as a broker, you need to look at what
is the most beneficial to yourcustomer, not what's the most
beneficial to what you're payingout. People base decisions based
off of how much money they canmake in a lot of situations,
right?And you know, I'll use aprime prime example here. This
literally just happened to melast week. I had a customer come
(35:52):
to me rush order, very tighttransit, very much like I had to
tell the customer like, hey,this is a perfect world
scenario, this is no traffic,this is no delays, this is
nothing. All right? Like, thisis it can be done -- I just need
to let you know, though, thatthat's a lot of driving and not
a lot of time. And they can'thit traffic.
Patrick Escolas (36:14):
The Red Sea has to part and the sun has to hit
on that truck the entire time.
Chris Jolly (36:19):
Without a doubt.
Patrick Escolas (36:20):
But if those things happen, sure.
Chris Jolly (36:22):
Yeah. So, I quoted him out and everything, and he
calls me back 20 minutes later-- hey, just for how hot this
shipment is, we're actuallygoing to send one of our own
drivers, employees, down. Andthen we're going to from
Virginia, and we're going tosend the guy up from Florida who
works for us and they're justgoing to meet in the middle and
(36:42):
swap out. We just this is whatwe want to do in this situation.
Alright, cool, man -- no harm,no foul, right? Fast-forward
three hours. It's 9 (36:48):
30 Eastern Time, and I got a phone call for
my customer. And hey, is theredriver available still? Let me
go check it out. Yeah, give me agive me a minute. Call him,
drive'rs like yeah, absolutely-- I need to get home, like,
please. And then they're like,are we sure this is a thing now?
Like yes, yes. It's a thing.
Customer wouldn't be calling meat this time right now. If it
(37:10):
wasn't, he's like, cool, right?
I will be there at 7am. I'mlike, perfect. So I call my
customer back. Let them know.
Yeah, my driver can be there at7am. He's like, alright, what's
your price? I said the exactsame price I quoted you three
hours ago? And the customerslike, wait, really? I'm like,
yeah -- the driver didn't getmore expensive now. And it's in
those moments, where some peoplewould take that and be like,
(37:34):
yeah, man, it's gonna be $800more now. Like, if you do they
do like they play to thesituation, right?
Patrick Escolas (37:42):
Let's just say, did you have one of those
moments where like, dang, I knewit should ask for more? No, or
you know what I mean? Like...
Chris Jolly (37:47):
No, didn't at all.
Patrick Escolas (37:47):
That was way too easy, yeah.
Chris Jolly (37:49):
I didn't at all.
Because, you know, again, man,this is how I feed my family. I
don't I don't roll the dice withthat stuff.
Patrick Escolas (37:54):
Right!
Chris Jolly (37:54):
Because I look at it from a long term perspective
here, man, where it's like, ifthat, what if that customer came
to my competition with anotheropportunity because he didn't
want to put all their eggs inone basket? I upcharge, my
competition doesn't.
Patrick Escolas (38:11):
You lose it, you get you get all of nothing.
Chris Jolly (38:13):
They're gonna they're gonna let it go on this
one, but if there's fourrush-order shipments that come
available the next day, guesswhat I'm not seeing? Four
rush-order shipments the nextday.
Patrick Escolas (38:23):
You lose that confidence.
Chris Jolly (38:25):
You know?
Patrick Escolas (38:25):
Yeah.
Chris Jolly (38:25):
And to tie that into your initial question about
the equipment and everythingelse and the combined shipping,
it's providing that solution toyour customer, no matter what.
What is the most effective andvaluable option for your
customer? Because if you'refocused on how much you can make
in that situation -- becauseagain, people play into the
volatility of stuff all thetime. And when I say people, you
(38:47):
guys, I'm using myself as anexample early on in my career,
alright? Because I've actuallydone this job for a very long
Patrick Escolas (38:53):
I will just say, it's probably just like any
time.
any sales job. That's how you'rethat's how you're taught to do
it, initially. You're all WallStreet and Boiler Room and
you're going, yeah, all right.
It's you know, I don't know whothe guy is on the end of this
phone. Let's just get it get itdone fast and for as much money
as possible. And then you youknow, you'll learn you grow and
you realize, oh, I needlong-term partnerships.
Chris Jolly (39:14):
It is exactly how you handle it with equipment
types -- you don't try andoversell anything and being
like, oh well! Because like, Isay that with equipment types
because I work in open deck andheavy haul, right? Like that's,
that's that's my wheelhouse,man. And there are certain
things that I do I can easilyupcharge in certain situations
and people aren't gonna bat aneye at it. But I believe in
(39:36):
karma man, I believe in theuniverse. I believe in doing the
right thing now. Fortunately,again, I've had a lot of stuff
happened to me where it's like,no, no, I don't need to do that.
Like, this is actually how wecan ship it. This is actually
more cost effective to you. Andagain, I'll use another
real-world example. Brand newcustomer that I just onboarded a
couple of months ago, likeearlier this year, last month...
Patrick Escolas (39:57):
Do you send them orange shirts once they...
Chris Jolly (39:59):
Not yet, but I will.
Patrick Escolas (40:00):
As part of the package?
Chris Jolly (40:01):
It'll come. I got to earn the right to send them
orange shirts, but I will. Um,and but you know, same same
thing like I quoted them out --flatbed load. He then calls me
back after he's, you know, heawards me the load and the load
picks up. He's like, I gottaask, he's like, did you give me
a sweetheart entry level? Like,we'll just break even on this
(40:22):
rate on this one, you know?
Patrick Escolas (40:24):
Get them hooked in cheap and then you know, what
are they gonna do later, right?
Chris Jolly (40:27):
Yeah. I'm like, no, not at all -- that's the rate.
Because this was a flatbed load.
He's like, just so you're aware,you were $400 under what we've
been paying dry vans on thislane. And, that right there,
again, selling the mode sellingthe volatility of it all, that's
why it's like I know if I applyand stay with these principles,
(40:49):
the long term I'll win. I willhave customer loyalty that goes
very deep with that. Because onethose loads that can go on a
step deck, I'm going to shipthem on a step deck. I'm not
going to push them to ship andand and RGN to upcharge. Why
would I do that? Why would I dothat? Who wins there? Me short
term -- and it's going to comeback eventually. You'll never
(41:10):
get punished for doing the rightthing, man.
Patrick Escolas (41:14):
You are. You are speaking my language, my
friend. I love it. No, I loveeverything you had to say here.
I'm gonna cut it down here. Giveyou a chance. I want you to
plug. Where do I find theFreight Coach? Other than just
search orange shirt? Google
Chris Jolly (41:33):
Shirt gang!
Patrick Escolas (41:33):
Yeah, that's right. I know we've you've had a
chance to drop some of youradvertisers. Now, let's drop
some drop some plugs for youyourself here.
Chris Jolly (41:41):
Yeah, you can iTunes Spotify, Coffee w/ The
Freight Coach. You can just putthe Freight Coach on YouTube. If
you guys go to those platforms,do me a solid, subscribe and
share. Rank that show out there.
And then if you just search theFeight Coach on LinkedIn,
Facebook, Twitter and Instagram,it'll go right -- and TikTok,
too. I post stuff on TikTok aswell.
Patrick Escolas (42:03):
So, we'll see you dancing shortly?
Chris Jolly (42:05):
No, not I just post my clips out there. I don't
think anybody you people I wantto keep growing. I don't want to
get like kicked to the curb.
That's not gonna happen.
Patrick Escolas (42:15):
No, I really appreciate you having taken the
time and speaking with me,Chris. Like I said, I love
watching your stuff. I do it onLinkedIn just because it looks
like I'm working if you don'tlook too closely. But yeah. Now
that I've said that everybodyknows. That's what I do at my
desk all day. No, but but no,Chris -- great to hear from you
(42:36):
here. Love having theconversation and I really liked
the message you put out. You maycall it you know, controversial
at times, I think as we'vetalked about, it is real. And
most importantly for me, it'sabout doing things, right,
because it needs to be doneright for both you and your
partner. And I think that asBanyan-y as I'll get here --
(42:58):
that's something that we alwayslook to do. And something that
from uh, you know, from anysales perspective that I've ever
been in that I do now is whenyou shake someone's hand, you
got to know it goes both ways,because you know you you're the
person there and they trust youso it's worth giving it back to
them. But, I'll end with goGuardians! The Twins ain't got
(43:20):
nothing! No, no! We'll, I'llhave to I'll have to give you
you we'll have to get a cellphone number so that way we can
give each other some real hateback and forth. As with the
pitch count, they might actuallybe short games. Who knows?
Chris Jolly (43:37):
Yeah, exactly. But we'll be out in July as we are
every year.
Patrick Escolas (43:42):
Well, here's to you being in till the end. So,
it's a fun rivalry. Because youknow, if it's, if it's not up to
the if it's not hard enough tobreak your heart, then it's not
close enough to be a rivalry.
Chris Jolly (43:53):
Yeah, that's very true.
Patrick Escolas (43:55):
No, Chris, thank you so much for your time.
I appreciate it. Yeah, if youever need another bald guy to
blind people on your on yourwith the glare, you know who to
call.
Chris Jolly (44:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
We'll do it.
Patrick Escolas (44:07):
Thanks Chris.
You have a great one, man.
Announcer (44:13):
Thank you for listening to Tire Tracks. Watch
for new episodes droppingmonthly and subscribe on Apple
Podcasts, Spotify and otherpodcast apps. For more
information about BanyanTechnology, visit
banyantechnology.com
Welcome to Tire Tracks, a Banyan Technology
podcast driving the logisticsindustry. And now your host,
Patrick Escolas.
Patrick Escolas (00:15):
Hey, how you doing, Freight Coach? For
everybody out there that mightbe listening or watching, this
is Patrick Escolas with theBanyan Technology podcast, Tire
Tracks. I am delighted to haveChris Jolly, the Freight Coach.
There's a hashtag in theresomewhere. Chris, how you doing?
Chris Jolly (00:33):
I'm doing well.
Thank you so much for coming on- inviting me on - to come and
chat today. I'm really lookingforward to it.
Patrick Escolas (00:39):
I am too. I watch your stuff as much as I
can. Especially since now I'mdeep in in the logistics
industry. I did not come from itand I needed some sources of
what what's going on, what am Igetting myself into, and the
orange shirt definitely was theway to go.
Chris Jolly (00:58):
It's it's funny because I went I went into
business for myself. I, at thattime, I'm like, alright, how do
I stand out in a crowd? You'vebeen to conferences before, I've
been to conferences. Everybody'sdressed the same, right? It's a
it's that light blue undershirtwith...
Patrick Escolas (01:13):
Yeah, like I work at Best Buy. I've got it
right here. Yeah, I'm ready togo.
Chris Jolly (01:17):
Everywhere. And I was like, if I'm gonna go into
business for myself, I got tostand out in a crowd. I'm like,
I already wear polos because Icome from a small town. So like,
dude, I'm dressed up in a polo.
Like, that's my mentality,right?
Patrick Escolas (01:28):
Well, plus, there's no there's no ironing
needed. You don't know if you'veworn it once or three times.
It's ready to go.
Chris Jolly (01:34):
Yeah. So I bought six orange polos. And I'm like,
really weird.
Patrick Escolas (01:38):
Separately, or did you get a nice little
bulk-like Walmart pack?
Chris Jolly (01:40):
Nah, dude, I Under Armour. I got three there at
first and then my wife's like,I'm sick of washing these during
the week. She's like, you needto buy more and I'm like,
alright! So, you know, splurgebought three more. And, you
know, so yeah, I do actuallychange throughout the week. And
dude, I just went orange becauseI'm just like, okay, I gotta
(02:01):
stand out in a crowd. How am Igoing to get anybody to remember
me, especially building a brand,building a company up? That's
like, the biggest thing is it'slike how do I get noticed? Well,
blazers, polo, rock backwardshat and be willing to make a
fool of yourself on camera.
Patrick Escolas (02:16):
Well, I have the make a fool of myself on
camera thing down. I was justsay the orange, we know you
didn't pick it because you're aBrowns fan, as we talked about
before this. You were for theTwins and my Guardians, we get
to play each other quite a bit.
But, we'll put those put thoseaside just for a little. We'll
have plenty of time to ask eachother throughout the season, I'm
sure. I'll pretend like I'mprofessional at this. So, wanted
(02:40):
start since I've got you onhere, nobody wants to hear about
me. When you talked aboutstarting the business on your
own, making it stand out. Wheredo you come from? Like, I mean,
I'm sure I could Wiki you insome bullet points, but give me
give me your elevator pitch.
What's the what's the ChrisJolly rags-to-riches story right
here?
Chris Jolly (02:59):
Well, still in the rags phase...
Patrick Escolas (03:02):
Orange rags, though!
Chris Jolly (03:03):
Orange, orange rags. Riches are coming. But
it's.. man, I come from theindustry. So, I come from a
family of truck drivers. When mygreat grandparents immigrated
here from Germany back in thelate '20s, early '30s They
started a trucking company. Andthen that turned into my dad
driving. He was an owner-op. Heowned his own trucking company
for about 40 years. And I gotinto the industry. I like I
(03:27):
always wanted to drive growingup like ever since I was a
little kid. But even still, tothis day, the smell of diesel
fuel and a jake brake are aboutthe most nostalgic things ever
for me because every time I heara jake brake, because like we
lived on a little hill, so likewhen my dad has come home from
the road, he he'd smash his Jakebrake to slow down his truck.
So, I always think like Dad'shome. It's really weird how that
(03:49):
happens even to this day.
Patrick Escolas (03:51):
And I the rest of us on the road are like, Oh
God, what's happening? Daddy?!
Chris Jolly (03:58):
And yeah, so I I got into it, you know? I wanted
to drive and my dad, I think asmost parents, don't want their
kids to like, follow in theirfootsteps because my dad knew
the reality of the industry. Andhe wanted more for me and his
big line was is "I want you towork with your brain and not
your back". That doesn't saythat I didn't pick up a shovel
(04:21):
at five years old because I did.
I've done...
Patrick Escolas (04:24):
Children are great cheap labor, if any parent
will tell you.
Chris Jolly (04:27):
Yeah, So you know, I've definitely done my fair
share of manual labor throughoutmy life. And I got into the
industry just in sales, and Iwanted to just do anything and
everything. And you know, at theend of the day, I was like,
well, I want to work in sales.
I'm like, I don't want to wear asuit. I hate suits, even to this
day. My wife hates it that Ihate suits, but she's she's
(04:51):
accepted the fact that veryrarely will I put one on.
Patrick Escolas (04:56):
You give her two, three days a year. Right?
Chris Jolly (04:58):
Yeah, absolutely -- at max. And so yeah, I just
thought, you know what I want todo, I don't want to do
something, but I want to beinvolved in a blue collar
industry. Because like, thoseare my people. You know, like,
I'm from a town of 1,800 innorthern Wisconsin. Like, I only
know blue collar people --that's my entire family -- those
are my people. So, I was like,alright, I'm gonna get into the
(05:18):
industry this way. So, I was abroker. You know, like, I
started off loading trucks incollege, because like, they
worked second shift, and theypaid a lot of decent -- 12 bucks
an hour. So to a 19-20 year old,that's a lot of money. Yeah,
so...
Patrick Escolas (05:32):
UPS UPS came to my campus and tried to you know,
our schedule was almost aroundthe UPS season was like, hey,
you want to have a big breakwhen we need to hire all of your
students? All right. And you canafford drinking in winter? If
you Yes, yeah.
Chris Jolly (05:47):
Dude, absolutely.
So, I did that. And then Igraduated from college, and I
got a job at a freightbrokerage. So, I packed up my
truck, I was living in northernWisconsin. I packed up my truck,
and I headed out to Reno,Nevada. My older, my older
brother lived out there. And Iwent out to visit one summer in
college. And I was like, this isnot the cornfields of northern
Wisconsin, I got here. Great,great time to get away, though,
(06:11):
and experience life outside ofthe bubble. And I think that
most people, even if you comeback, even if you come back to
your hometown, get out andexplore a little bit, as you
might find yourself along thatjourney. And you know, and so
yeah, I just got in, and I was abroker for a long time. And then
(06:31):
right at the beginning of thepandemic, I actually resigned
from my job. It was, I resigned,because like, I wanted to go try
something new. I felt like I hadaccomplished everything I could,
as a broker. And I was like, Iwant to go work for a trucking
company. I want to sell overthere. I want to learn assets.
And then I'll take my 15 to 17years experience at that time,
(06:54):
and I'll make a C-suite play oneday.
Patrick Escolas (06:58):
Was that was that crazy? 'Cuz, you know, as
we're looking back now, wasn't,isn't that like the height of
broker games for a minute thereduring that COVID stretch? Like,
we're there times when you'relike, what did I do? Or, was it
you were pretty solid with withyour decision the whole time?
Chris Jolly (07:17):
Oh, no, I was terrified. Because I resigned
before like, like, COVID wasthere, but it wasn't shut down.
Patrick Escolas (07:26):
Right.
Chris Jolly (07:27):
I resigned on a Monday and by Thursday, that's
when things hit the fan. Andthen everything shut down that
Friday in unison. Everybody whowanted to interview me -- hey,
we got to shelve this 'tillJuly.
Patrick Escolas (07:38):
Yeah, no one's hiring anything, yeah.
Chris Jolly (07:39):
I had just moved to Arizona with my wife and my son
three months prior. So, I'm outof a job beginning of a pandemic
and I'm like, what am I going todo here? Like, I don't know how
this is going to go.
Fortunately, I had a little bitof money saved up -- like not,
hey, I'm good for four years,but like, I got six months.
Patrick Escolas (07:58):
Yeah.
Chris Jolly (07:58):
That's literally what it was man is like, I'm
like, I got six months and Iwill take everything I've saved
down to zero if I have to. Butthat's what I got involved on
social media. And I was like,seeing a bunch of posts out
there and I'm like, okay, thiscan't be real. I'm like, either,
I was absolutely terrible at myjob, or it's easiest call a
(08:23):
shipper. They give you a milliondollars, you find a trucking
company, and you're amillionaire overnight. And I'm
like this, this isn't right. Andso I took it from there, and
then I'm like, why is nobodytalking about the realities of
the industry? Why is it thiscookie- cutter, just do this and
everything will be alright. I'mlike, what happens if you have a
damaged product? Or what do youdo if if a driver takes out a
(08:46):
fence at a shipper? Or what doyou do if there's a driver that
gets shut down over the winterdue to a road closure? Nobody's
talking about that. So that'swhere I started angling my
content is I'm like, alright, Iwasn't that good at this job --
clearly. So I'm gonna starttalking about my experience.
Turns out a lot of peoplealigned with what I was saying.
(09:09):
Because you know, what thestruggle is in sales are real
cold calling is not easy. Coldprospecting is not easy. And I
was like, you know, I'm justgonna go out there and talk
about this.
Patrick Escolas (09:19):
Now, and that's it. Amen to that, because that's
what I look into. I come fromthe sales background before
logistics. And one thing that Ican tell you is that if you look
at it, everybody with a podcastand everybody on LinkedIn is the
most successful, easiest ride tosuccess they've ever had and
they got $48 million coming in,and they started just two years
(09:40):
ago. And you're like, wow, youknow, I've been calling 70
people a day and I'm still rent-- rent still sucks, but yeah,
yeah, no, no, and that's what itwas funny. I think I just
answered a poll on something theother day. It was like, hey,
would you watch a sales podcaston this and be like.. No, I want
to see the losses and the shitshow that happen in-between
(10:01):
those crazy wins that somebodygets, because that's where
that's where the real lessonsare, or that's where the real
knowledge like... I think youwere saying, I watched one of
them, were you talking about howthe price has gone up from I
think Tampa to Atlanta. And thenyou brought up the fact that,
hey, but it's going to becheaper going the other way. And
that's one of those things thatthose little things that I who's
(10:23):
-- who's talking in granulardetail specifically about, hey,
here's a way that you can gainsomething from here. And I think
you do a great job with howyou're talking and who you're
talking to. Because you're notsaying, Hey, look at me, I'm so
good at this. You're like, no,here's the reality of it.
Here's, here's the day in andday out. Here's what happens
when shipments go bad. So it...
Chris Jolly (10:45):
To me though, dude, it's because like, that's just
what's missing in social mediaas a whole, like...
Patrick Escolas (10:50):
The reality?
Chris Jolly (10:51):
Yeah, real -- real life. And that's what I like,
because that's what I startedposting about stuff all the time
and like, but that's also, atthe same time, why I don't talk
about the controversialthis-and-that carriers against
brokers against shippers,because people are so focused on
vanity metrics, but I'm like,listen, I know, I'm not the only
(11:11):
one out there struggling insales. I know, I'm not the only
one out there who didn't knowhow to freight read a freight
market at one point in time. So,I want to put information out
there that people can actuallyapply to their business, because
there's so much opportunitythat's out there, there's so
much opportunity. But again, somany people are like to try and
(11:31):
be so polarizing. It's eitherthey're -- they're the best, or
it's the Debbie Downer effect,where they're just posting like,
what you think of like, Eeyore,you know? Like, oh, it's the
worst day of the week. It's not,you know?
Patrick Escolas (11:44):
That that could mean me. I could be Eeyore or
the guy right in the sunshine,depending on what time of the
day you catch me. And somewherein between. That's the average.
But I mean, you're, you're soright with it. It's the middle.
Like, what happened to being inthe middle and being just not
average, but finding the happymedium, being the enemy somehow?
(12:07):
You don't have to be at eitherside of it.
Chris Jolly (12:09):
Yeah, dude. Because it's like, I guess there's also
me just talking about what I'mgoing through. Because I
bootstrap everything, I'm selffunded. I don't have investors,
I don't have a golden parachute,like everything.
Patrick Escolas (12:21):
So you don't have an agenda that you're
trying to push while you'redoing.
Chris Jolly (12:24):
No, not at all. I'm talking about what I go through
out there. Because, you know, atthe end of the day, not
everybody has investor capital.
Not everybody has, you know,venture capitalists willing to
throw millions and millions ofdollars at them. But that
doesn't mean that you need thatto succeed, right? You know, and
I am just out here legitimately,putting out what I'm going
(12:47):
through every single day onevery phase of everything,
because I started in my bedroom.
And this is why I leave all ofmy early content up there. I
want people to see where itstarted.
Patrick Escolas (12:59):
Right!
Chris Jolly (12:59):
Because that's like one of the things like a DM that
I've been getting a lot. Like,Fortunately, I have advertisers
and you know, for my content,and everything, but like I get I
get DMs from people. and they'relike, hey, I want to start a
podcast, how do I getadvertising? And it's like, man,
it's not that easy. You know,like, go back to day one and
(13:20):
look at how for a year straight,I put out podcast, videos
content every single day --before I got my first
advertiser. And even then,thankfully, they were like, we
love what you're doing. We seethe future value of what you're
doing. And they and they andthey got on board with that, you
(13:40):
know? So it's like Trucker Toolswas my first advertiser and
Emerge came on shortly afterthat, and I am forever grateful
for those because they kept megoing. If it wasn't for those
people, if it wasn't for Prasadand Andrew Leto believing in
what I was on for my mission, Idon't know if I'd be here today.
Patrick Escolas (14:01):
You'd still be like, I got something else to
do. This isn't this isn't gonnabring the bills and pay the
bills.
Chris Jolly (14:07):
Exactly. Because dude, I broke even every
single... No, I broke even. Ilost money for the first six
months I broke even from months7 to 13 or 14.
Patrick Escolas (14:22):
Okay.
Chris Jolly (14:22):
And then I made a little bit of money after that
fact. Like, up until last yearand 2022, that was the first
year I actually made a littlebit of money and I still haven't
like, actually taken money fromthis. Like...
Patrick Escolas (14:36):
You're like, I'm still not paying me. I'm
still the most underpaidemployee at the Freight Coach.
Chris Jolly (14:41):
Yeah! But that's just what happens out there,
though. And it's like, if youwant to achieve these things,
you know, it's a lot harder thanyou think. But it is so much
more rewarding at the exact sametime. And it's the same thing in
sales to man and like when youyou're building your book of
business is, it takes so muchlonger than you want it to. And
(15:06):
that is why you have to valueevery single customer that pays
you. Because now, man, that'show I like, that's how I feed my
family. That's how I put a roofover my kid's head. I don't take
any relationship for granted, Ican't just find another
advertiser or find anothershipper to work with. That's,
that's, that's food on my son'splate right there.
Patrick Escolas (15:28):
Yeah, so much, so much of it is is that true
relationship to like, you know,you, you have who you are. And
as those people supported you,it wasn't they -- and I assume
-- that they weren't coming inand saying, hey, man, we need
you to turn your podcast into afull Trucker Tools, that needs
to be everything you talked to,they're liking what you're
(15:48):
doing, and it's gonna grow withyou.
Chris Jolly (15:50):
Fortunately, that's exactly what it was. And, you
know, I've always had the stanceof this, where it's like, I'm
going to speak my mind on thingslike I don't play the the
extreme game on either side, I'mjust going to put my honest
opinion out there on stuff. AndI believe in the First Amendment
-- if you listen to my stuff,you clearly understand that I
(16:12):
do. But you know, like, my wholething is, is this like, I just
want to put an unfilteredopinion out there that somebody
can't look at it and say, andthat's coming from somewhere
else.
Patrick Escolas (16:24):
Right! It's just Chris Jolly.
Chris Jolly (16:26):
Yeah. And, you know, again, I'm just, I've
taken that stance. Andfortunately, I think that when
people don't put out thatfacade, you know, that, hey,
I'm, I'm perfect at everything.
When you actually go with whoyou are as a person, without
fear of repercussion, like,yeah, I get it. I swear a lot,
okay? I'm very aware of that. Idon't need anybody to tell me.
(16:51):
But this is who I am. If youhad...
Patrick Escolas (16:55):
Nobody, nobody doubts that. No, like, there's
no, there's no thought that man,there's a team of five guys
writing-up what he's sayingday-in and day-out and putting
on this persona. Absolutely. No-- that the real comes through.
Chris Jolly (17:07):
Yeah. And you know, because again, like, I just
think like, that's what you, youjust need to unapologetically be
yourself, you know? And it's,and it's always so simple to say
it in this setting, right? Likewhen you say that nothing is
alive.
Patrick Escolas (17:24):
Yeah, yeah.
Chris Jolly (17:25):
But I promise you, if you live that life every
single day, it is so liberating,man. Like, I just like
everybody, I'm a human being Istruggled with confidence. I
struggled with everything for along time, until I stopped
caring, like I care very muchabout other people I truly do.
But, what somebody else'sopinion is, is not going to
(17:48):
deter me anymore, and it used toso much.
Patrick Escolas (17:51):
You can only control what you can control,
and usually, that's just you.
Chris Jolly (17:54):
Yeah, absolutely.
Patrick Escolas (17:56):
So and I appreciate all that. How does
all of this on your podcast, howdoes that translate to your
brokerage? Like, does that gohand-in-hand with that? Or, is
there a time where you've got tokind of turn your brain one way
to social and one way tobrokerage or give me a look,
give me an idea of has it helpedyou grow it? I mean, in my
thought, that's an easy, youknow, softball, of course, but
(18:20):
at the same time, what are someof the other obstacles with
being both things?
Chris Jolly (18:25):
Um, I think that you're going to attract your
tribe, no matter what. Like, theonly obstacle that there is at
times is like, if I get an emailwhen I'm live or something like
that, and I'm like, I'm like,he, like, want to look at it...
Patrick Escolas (18:42):
You're like, podcast, please hold on. I need
to make money over here. Onesecond.
Chris Jolly (18:46):
That's the thing, man is, like, when I'm an
independent, I can do that. Andmy audience would love that.
Patrick Escolas (18:53):
Phil, understand...
Chris Jolly (18:54):
Yeah!
Patrick Escolas (18:55):
Yeah. Hold on, I've got an email. We're gonna
book a live load right now.
Yeah, exactly.
Chris Jolly (18:59):
That's, that's exactly it. But that's also one
of the main driving forces why Istopped consulting got back into
it. Because like, I was goingback and forth for a long time,
and like, how do I bring morevalidity to what I'm saying?
Because I wasn't, I wasn'tsecond guessing myself. But I'm
like, I don't want anybody toever listen to my stuff and be
(19:22):
like, yeah, clearly, you knowwhat you're talking about, but
you're a consultant -- like youdon't really get it.
Patrick Escolas (19:27):
You You don't want to talk too much in the
hypotheticals. You want it to begrounded in a very real examples
of what someone could do todayif they picked up the phone 20
seconds from now.
Chris Jolly (19:37):
Absolutely. So I legitimately put my money where
my mouth was and I startedFreight Coach Logistics, and I'm
going for it and everything Italk about is literally what I'm
doing inside of my business. Sowhen I hit $25 million in
revenue, you guys are going towitness it. You guys are going
to hear everything that I'mdoing the entire time. When I go
from $25 to $100. Samesituation. When I go from $100
(19:59):
to a billion in the first 10years, same situation you guys.
Everything that I am deliveringis what I'm applying. But that's
the hard part of it all man isthe application of it. You know,
because I interview shippers allthe time on my stuff like
fortunate. Fortunately, theseshippers, I have a secret
shipper audience that runs deep.
I can't say who they are.
Patrick Escolas (20:22):
Or else everybody would be calling them
to be like, hey, hear you'reworking with the Freight Coach
-- we can do better than that.
Chris Jolly (20:27):
Yeah, but no, it's not even that. It's just they
love my content. Because they'llask me questions. They're like,
hey, I saw your video I had thishappen. What did this actually
mean? So I'm like, alright, hereyou go. But, I've been able to
interview actual large, largeshippers on my stuff. I am very
fortunate to have friends thatare on that side of the fence
that are willing to come on andthey lay out literally
(20:49):
everything you need to do. Likejust this past week, I had two
enterprise shippers on mypodcast. They, if you apply
everything that they say it'sgoing to take time, you will
build a seven-figure businessbased off of the information
that they gave you and that andthose two episodes that are
about a total of an hour and ahalf of your time.
Patrick Escolas (21:10):
Damn.
Chris Jolly (21:11):
Like, no joke, man.
Like, these guys laid out how toprospect better, how to grow
with an enterprise level accountbetter, how to position yourself
to break in with a shipper with75 nationwide facilities -- they
laid it all out there. All outthere -- and you just have to
apply with what they say.
Patrick Escolas (21:29):
That's crazy.
And that's awesome that you canyou offer that as a kind of a
value add through not onlyanybody listening, but at the
same time, you're hearing that.
So as you're talking to yourshippers, you're like saying
hey, shipper, big, big shipper Ahere did this. Or is that
something you're going to begoing down in the future? Kind
of, though you're like you saidyou're not consulting you kind
(21:50):
of are from a very vague andgeneral perspective, through the
podcast.
Chris Jolly (21:54):
In a sense, it's, you know, to me, it's it's
putting that information, again,it's putting that information
out there for people that needit. That, you know, actually
have everything on the line justlike I do, you know. Because I
view whether it's anentrepreneur who goes out and
starts their own truckingcompany or their own brokerage,
if you have everything on theline, to try and live your
(22:17):
American dream, like the rightinformation, because there's I'm
not trying to sell a course,right? Like, I'm not trying to
sell a course to anybody at all.
Patrick Escolas (22:24):
You're not coming to the Holiday Inn and
talking here?
Chris Jolly (22:27):
Absolutely not. And I refuse. I've been approached
numerous times, like -- youshould create a course. I said,
absolutely not. I'm gonnacontinue to give away everything
for free. T
Patrick Escolas (22:34):
There's a few hypnotists I know that that you
guys could team up, you couldlose weight, quit smoking, and
and increase your freightefficiency at the same time, you
know?
Chris Jolly (22:44):
100%? Because I, for me, it's like, nothing I'm
doing is proprietary, right?
Like at the end day, nothing'sproprietary.
Patrick Escolas (22:53):
This is the Freight Coach secret -- dial
dial in now, two easy paymentsof $19.99 and we'll give you
the, the real gems.
Chris Jolly (23:02):
Yeah, absolutely not. And I'm just on, like
putting that information outthere. Again, yes, I have
advertisers. I hope you guys allgo to Trucker Tools, and vHub
and SPI Logistics. You guys doall of that and support them.
Um, but I'm gonna put this outno matter what. Like, again,
back to what I was sayingearlier, I did this for free for
(23:22):
a long time. It won't happen.
But if it did, and everythingwent away tomorrow, I'm going to
continue to do this because mymission isn't what can I gain
from this because if it was, Iwould only be posting
controversial stuff that woulddrive my metrics through the
roof.
Patrick Escolas (23:36):
And you'd have sold out, you'd have picked up
whoever's paying your bill andthey're pushing their agenda
early on. Exactly.
Chris Jolly (23:43):
I could easily, easily 10x My engagement if I
took that route, but I'm notgoing to. Like, I've already
seen the growth. I already havea legitimately a ranked podcast
on iTunes. I don't, I don't needto do anything different than
what I'm doing. And I'm going tocontinue to do that, because
there are hard working men andwomen of this industry that
(24:04):
listen to my stuff that actuallyare able to make decisions that
are going to benefit them at nocost to them outside of
listening to this voice forabout 35 minutes or whatever.
Patrick Escolas (24:16):
It's a high cost. But no, no, no. But yes,
the blue collar are your people.
And that's that's what you'redoing it for No, I I respect
that. And I you see that in thecontent you put out. So you're
talking about like 10x-ingsomething and you talked about
those, those shippers that areyou know, that could really show
you that way forward, if youwere listening or watching. What
are some of the innovations orsome of the technology that
(24:40):
they're doing? As you say, youknow, we're not pushing
something specifically, what aresome of the common denominators
that you're seeing in thesegrowth for the shippers? What
are, from a technologicalperspective? Hi, I'm from Banyan
-- we're going to talk about atsome point. But right now, just
from from that, but what doesthat look like to you? Like,
what are what are three youknow, three things that are
(25:00):
innovative in the logistics ortransportation industry right
now that that are worth worthlooking out for are already
here, they're just gonna getbigger?
Chris Jolly (25:09):
I personally think so I've said this. I said this
with Alan when Alan was on mypodcast, that as...
Patrick Escolas (25:16):
He's bald, but he talks a little more than I
do. But, I love him for it. Ifit wasn't, if it wasn't for the
fact that he'd be talking alittle more, you might, you
might think we're the same. No,you'd never -- I've got a much
better beard than he does. He'smy boss, I'm just ripping...
Chris Jolly (25:33):
I have to say this.
I have to say this while I can.
Yeah. But no, man -- I thinklike, I was talking with him
about this, like, 95% of my dayas a freight broker should be
automated, right? Like,legitimately, I shouldn't be
manually building loads, Ishouldn't be manually accepting
tenders, load updates throughtracking should be automatically
sent over. API integrations,whatever you want to do to
(25:56):
automate everything you should-- except for those intangible
moments that customers need tohear from you, right? Like, a
customer should never call mybrokerage, or my business and
get a busy tone, or a no answer,or a voicemail, Right? Because
(26:20):
they should hear from me, first.
No matter what, as crappy as thesituation might be, they should
hear from me first -- just likemy carriers. Right? If there's a
delay, they should hear from me.
Patrick Escolas (26:33):
Is that something you've always had in
place, since you were a broker?
Before everything
Chris Jolly (26:36):
No.
Patrick Escolas (26:36):
Is that something? Yeah. When did when
that thought process come foryou?
Chris Jolly (26:41):
I learned the hard way, man. I just like with
everything. Like, you know,there's a lot of value in
adversity -- there really is.
Patrick Escolas (26:49):
The trial and error of life and the wisdom
gained by getting through it.
Chris Jolly (26:53):
Absolutely, man, because you'll never know until
you lose a customer because ofsomething you failed to do.
Right? And it's never thesituation that upsets them,
because -- especially intrucking -- anybody who's been
in this industry for a longtime... fully aware. Even if
you're newer... fully aware.
Things happen. But what nobodycan ever tolerate is why they
(27:16):
never were notified thatsomething happened, right?
Patrick Escolas (27:23):
It's the expectation of communication.
Chris Jolly (27:25):
Yeah, in the same thing. And as brokers, you know,
to me, it's like, we have toplay both sides. Carriers and
customers are just as important-- they're one A and one B to
me. And if there's a delay at ashipper, for whatever reason or
a receiver, the driver shouldnever have to reach out to me
every 30 minutes to find outwhat's going on. I should be
(27:47):
reaching out to them, right?
Hey, listen, no update is stillan update, right? They still
hear from you. Because again,people need to know that you
actually care, right? Like, itdoesn't matter if it's a weekend
pickup, like, man, I've hadweekend, which we call it
pickups, you know, 6am 7amdriver arrives, the weekend crew
was late to load, you know? Forwhatever reason. Chances are
(28:10):
they you know, closed anestablishment down the night
before.
Patrick Escolas (28:15):
Yeah.
Chris Jolly (28:16):
But I have to be there to answer their calls and
to call them to let them know,like, hey, I'm on it, we're
working on it. Just like ifthere's a delay going into a
shipper for whatever reason, youknow? Hey, listen -- we're in
contact with the driver, this iswhere they are, you know,
whether whatever it is. it'sgoing to be okay. That's all
they need. They don't need tohave them reach out to you to
(28:40):
find out, uh, let me look intothat quick. Those are like your
your committing just like thebiggest egregious act at that
moment in their eyes.
Patrick Escolas (28:52):
No, and that's where, so that's it's funny, you
bring that up. It's notnecessarily knowing if shit's
going wrong, or if something'sgone wrong, it's letting them
know ahead of time that, hey,I'm on it. Or this is what this
is what needs to happen, orthere's something going on --
I'm looking into it.
Chris Jolly (29:10):
Yeah.
Patrick Escolas (29:11):
And that kind of brings me to another point I
wanted to bring up. You know,visibility is such this key word
throughout the entire industry,whether it's on the technology,
whether it's on the broker side,and everybody talks about
visibility as just far as thatlike, hey, where's your truck?
Where's your load? Everythinglike that. But one of the things
that we've been doing or lookinginto is, more importantly, what
(29:34):
about the visibility on gettingtowards that, like those
decisions. The more, you knowhow in manufacturing, you're,
you're moving towards leanmanufacturing. Where's the
visibility there that's going tobring it towards lean
distribution or leantransportation? Because sure,
yeah, all right --it's late,whatever, big deal. I know where
it is, you know? More lookingback at it, where are we --
(29:56):
where are we spending thosedollars and why are we spending
them that way? Is is one onething that I think within
because like you're saying, onthe automation, sure, it's there
on a few of these, you want toknow, the the exceptions or the
hey, there's a fire I gotta putout somewhere. But, where are
from the grand scheme of thingsare we making these decisions?
(30:18):
What are and what are you seeingwithin that that not only, you
know, from day to day, it'sreally easy to get lost, and I
just gotta move this load, butas you look back at it from a
quarter to a year, how, how doyou look at it? Or how does the
industry look at it as what kindof visibility are we trying to
get from that? What kind ofdecisions can be made better?
Chris Jolly (30:38):
So this might be controversial to say, but I
don't think it's ever...
Patrick Escolas (30:42):
From you, Chris?
Chris Jolly (30:43):
I know, right? I don't think it's ever as
volatile as people want toproclaim.
Patrick Escolas (30:49):
Okay.
Chris Jolly (30:50):
I think that it's what's volatile is your emotion
in the moment of not wanting tolose money.
Patrick Escolas (30:58):
Amen to that.
Chris Jolly (30:59):
I think that's the biggest driving force behind a
lot of things. Or youmiss-quoted a load and you don't
want to take that L. So, yougive the load back, you make up
some BS excuse about how a truckbroke down, or, you know, they
blew a tire or they're not well,whatever. You know, I personally
think 95% of the problems thatbrokers have are self-inflicted,
you know? I truly do. And Ithink that the markets, even
(31:22):
through COVID, the marketoperated identically, dang near
identically as it has over thelast 10 years. 18-month cycle.
The only thing that was volatilewas the extreme that the rates
went up. That was the only thingthat was different.
Patrick Escolas (31:41):
That is controversial, Chris.
Chris Jolly (31:43):
I know it is. I know it is, because here's the
thing (31:46):
'19, 2019, was not the best freight market, right?
Overall. 2020, things bottomedout, right? But, after
everything started opening backup, the market went up, right?
If you look at that, you couldargue, you know, September to
November of 2020, is when ratesstarted really starting to shoot
(32:09):
up. They held firm all of '21.
And beginning phase, you know, Iwould say it held onto about May
of 2022. So, what does thatequal -- 18 to 20 some months?
Patrick Escolas (32:23):
Yeah.
Chris Jolly (32:24):
If you look back at any freight market, it's
anywhere from 18 to 24 months ishow long it lasts. The only
volatility of it was the ratesshot through the roof. That's
where the biggest thing lied.
And that's because it blewanalysts budgets, everybody's
out the door because it waslike, Oh, my gosh, when there is
(32:48):
pandemonium, people acted theway that people do, right? You
want me to do that? $8 mileshippers like I gotta have this
on the shelves. All right, payit. And then it just kept going
and kept going and kept going.
And then about May June of 2022.
All of a sudden, there's not abackup at the port anymore.
(33:10):
Customers are realizing that oh,wow -- we panic bought our
inventories sky high. We're notgoing to send out a 10-pallet
full truckload anymore. We'regoing to go back to LTL, or
we're going to partial that. Andthings started to calm down. And
(33:30):
the thing is, is most peoplerode that high, right? When it's
easy, man, everyone can sell,right? Anyone can sell when the
markets like that. But the factof the matter is, is it operated
the way that it always does. Theonly outlier was the how high
prices were for equipment andeverything else, and how high
(33:54):
the rates shot up. But themarket performed the way that
the market always performs.
Patrick Escolas (34:03):
That's, I like your perspective on that. And I
expect nothing less as far ascontroversial, and then backed
up with some, some good datathere. I like that.
Chris Jolly (34:12):
Yeah.
Patrick Escolas (34:13):
So as you were saying, and this is you're
talking about, you know, you'renot moving in a truck anymore.
Maybe you are moving an LTL orlooking at parcel. I mean, how,
you know, within that kind ofthe different modes you're going
through within like multi-modemanagement, what, what do you
see with that? Is that somethingwhere, you know, there's still
(34:35):
times where it's going to bebecause within our process here,
that's something that we've,we've taken a big a big swing
at. And we do because ideallyand one day, we want to look at
we want to look at load, youknow, load management, where
there's some automation andgoing, hey, how should you be
moving this versus just going,hey, let me look at it at
(34:56):
Truckload. Now that's a littletoo much -- we're looking at a
partial load, but then inreality, there might have been,
you move half of it in LTL, anda little bit of it in parcel.
And that might be the smartest,fastest way. So as far as now
that we've got, you know,capacities out there, and we
have what, you know, on anygiven day three modes for if,
(35:17):
depending on how you break itup? How do you define how you
send things out? How do you froma brokerage standpoint, look at
it as the Freight Coach? How doyou think about these different
modes from get to point A topoint B?
Chris Jolly (35:30):
I think as a broker, you need to look at what
is the most beneficial to yourcustomer, not what's the most
beneficial to what you're payingout. People base decisions based
off of how much money they canmake in a lot of situations,
right?And you know, I'll use aprime prime example here. This
literally just happened to melast week. I had a customer come
(35:52):
to me rush order, very tighttransit, very much like I had to
tell the customer like, hey,this is a perfect world
scenario, this is no traffic,this is no delays, this is
nothing. All right? Like, thisis it can be done -- I just need
to let you know, though, thatthat's a lot of driving and not
a lot of time. And they can'thit traffic.
Patrick Escolas (36:14):
The Red Sea has to part and the sun has to hit
on that truck the entire time.
Chris Jolly (36:19):
Without a doubt.
Patrick Escolas (36:20):
But if those things happen, sure.
Chris Jolly (36:22):
Yeah. So, I quoted him out and everything, and he
calls me back 20 minutes later-- hey, just for how hot this
shipment is, we're actuallygoing to send one of our own
drivers, employees, down. Andthen we're going to from
Virginia, and we're going tosend the guy up from Florida who
works for us and they're justgoing to meet in the middle and
(36:42):
swap out. We just this is whatwe want to do in this situation.
Alright, cool, man -- no harm,no foul, right? Fast-forward
three hours. It's 9 (36:48):
30 Eastern Time, and I got a phone call for
my customer. And hey, is theredriver available still? Let me
go check it out. Yeah, give me agive me a minute. Call him,
drive'rs like yeah, absolutely-- I need to get home, like,
please. And then they're like,are we sure this is a thing now?
Like yes, yes. It's a thing.
Customer wouldn't be calling meat this time right now. If it
(37:10):
wasn't, he's like, cool, right?
I will be there at 7am. I'mlike, perfect. So I call my
customer back. Let them know.
Yeah, my driver can be there at7am. He's like, alright, what's
your price? I said the exactsame price I quoted you three
hours ago? And the customerslike, wait, really? I'm like,
yeah -- the driver didn't getmore expensive now. And it's in
those moments, where some peoplewould take that and be like,
(37:34):
yeah, man, it's gonna be $800more now. Like, if you do they
do like they play to thesituation, right?
Patrick Escolas (37:42):
Let's just say, did you have one of those
moments where like, dang, I knewit should ask for more? No, or
you know what I mean? Like...
Chris Jolly (37:47):
No, didn't at all.
Patrick Escolas (37:47):
That was way too easy, yeah.
Chris Jolly (37:49):
I didn't at all.
Because, you know, again, man,this is how I feed my family. I
don't I don't roll the dice withthat stuff.
Patrick Escolas (37:54):
Right!
Chris Jolly (37:54):
Because I look at it from a long term perspective
here, man, where it's like, ifthat, what if that customer came
to my competition with anotheropportunity because he didn't
want to put all their eggs inone basket? I upcharge, my
competition doesn't.
Patrick Escolas (38:11):
You lose it, you get you get all of nothing.
Chris Jolly (38:13):
They're gonna they're gonna let it go on this
one, but if there's fourrush-order shipments that come
available the next day, guesswhat I'm not seeing? Four
rush-order shipments the nextday.
Patrick Escolas (38:23):
You lose that confidence.
Chris Jolly (38:25):
You know?
Patrick Escolas (38:25):
Yeah.
Chris Jolly (38:25):
And to tie that into your initial question about
the equipment and everythingelse and the combined shipping,
it's providing that solution toyour customer, no matter what.
What is the most effective andvaluable option for your
customer? Because if you'refocused on how much you can make
in that situation -- becauseagain, people play into the
volatility of stuff all thetime. And when I say people, you
(38:47):
guys, I'm using myself as anexample early on in my career,
alright? Because I've actuallydone this job for a very long
Patrick Escolas (38:53):
I will just say, it's probably just like any
time.
any sales job. That's how you'rethat's how you're taught to do
it, initially. You're all WallStreet and Boiler Room and
you're going, yeah, all right.
It's you know, I don't know whothe guy is on the end of this
phone. Let's just get it get itdone fast and for as much money
as possible. And then you youknow, you'll learn you grow and
you realize, oh, I needlong-term partnerships.
Chris Jolly (39:14):
It is exactly how you handle it with equipment
types -- you don't try andoversell anything and being
like, oh well! Because like, Isay that with equipment types
because I work in open deck andheavy haul, right? Like that's,
that's that's my wheelhouse,man. And there are certain
things that I do I can easilyupcharge in certain situations
and people aren't gonna bat aneye at it. But I believe in
(39:36):
karma man, I believe in theuniverse. I believe in doing the
right thing now. Fortunately,again, I've had a lot of stuff
happened to me where it's like,no, no, I don't need to do that.
Like, this is actually how wecan ship it. This is actually
more cost effective to you. Andagain, I'll use another
real-world example. Brand newcustomer that I just onboarded a
couple of months ago, likeearlier this year, last month...
Patrick Escolas (39:57):
Do you send them orange shirts once they...
Chris Jolly (39:59):
Not yet, but I will.
Patrick Escolas (40:00):
As part of the package?
Chris Jolly (40:01):
It'll come. I got to earn the right to send them
orange shirts, but I will. Um,and but you know, same same
thing like I quoted them out --flatbed load. He then calls me
back after he's, you know, heawards me the load and the load
picks up. He's like, I gottaask, he's like, did you give me
a sweetheart entry level? Like,we'll just break even on this
(40:22):
rate on this one, you know?
Patrick Escolas (40:24):
Get them hooked in cheap and then you know, what
are they gonna do later, right?
Chris Jolly (40:27):
Yeah. I'm like, no, not at all -- that's the rate.
Because this was a flatbed load.
He's like, just so you're aware,you were $400 under what we've
been paying dry vans on thislane. And, that right there,
again, selling the mode sellingthe volatility of it all, that's
why it's like I know if I applyand stay with these principles,
(40:49):
the long term I'll win. I willhave customer loyalty that goes
very deep with that. Because onethose loads that can go on a
step deck, I'm going to shipthem on a step deck. I'm not
going to push them to ship andand and RGN to upcharge. Why
would I do that? Why would I dothat? Who wins there? Me short
term -- and it's going to comeback eventually. You'll never
(41:10):
get punished for doing the rightthing, man.
Patrick Escolas (41:14):
You are. You are speaking my language, my
friend. I love it. No, I loveeverything you had to say here.
I'm gonna cut it down here. Giveyou a chance. I want you to
plug. Where do I find theFreight Coach? Other than just
search orange shirt? Google
Chris Jolly (41:33):
Shirt gang!
Patrick Escolas (41:33):
Yeah, that's right. I know we've you've had a
chance to drop some of youradvertisers. Now, let's drop
some drop some plugs for youyourself here.
Chris Jolly (41:41):
Yeah, you can iTunes Spotify, Coffee w/ The
Freight Coach. You can just putthe Freight Coach on YouTube. If
you guys go to those platforms,do me a solid, subscribe and
share. Rank that show out there.
And then if you just search theFeight Coach on LinkedIn,
Facebook, Twitter and Instagram,it'll go right -- and TikTok,
too. I post stuff on TikTok aswell.
Patrick Escolas (42:03):
So, we'll see you dancing shortly?
Chris Jolly (42:05):
No, not I just post my clips out there. I don't
think anybody you people I wantto keep growing. I don't want to
get like kicked to the curb.
That's not gonna happen.
Patrick Escolas (42:15):
No, I really appreciate you having taken the
time and speaking with me,Chris. Like I said, I love
watching your stuff. I do it onLinkedIn just because it looks
like I'm working if you don'tlook too closely. But yeah. Now
that I've said that everybodyknows. That's what I do at my
desk all day. No, but but no,Chris -- great to hear from you
(42:36):
here. Love having theconversation and I really liked
the message you put out. You maycall it you know, controversial
at times, I think as we'vetalked about, it is real. And
most importantly for me, it'sabout doing things, right,
because it needs to be doneright for both you and your
partner. And I think that asBanyan-y as I'll get here --
(42:58):
that's something that we alwayslook to do. And something that
from uh, you know, from anysales perspective that I've ever
been in that I do now is whenyou shake someone's hand, you
got to know it goes both ways,because you know you you're the
person there and they trust youso it's worth giving it back to
them. But, I'll end with goGuardians! The Twins ain't got
(43:20):
nothing! No, no! We'll, I'llhave to I'll have to give you
you we'll have to get a cellphone number so that way we can
give each other some real hateback and forth. As with the
pitch count, they might actuallybe short games. Who knows?
Chris Jolly (43:37):
Yeah, exactly. But we'll be out in July as we are
every year.
Patrick Escolas (43:42):
Well, here's to you being in till the end. So,
it's a fun rivalry. Because youknow, if it's, if it's not up to
the if it's not hard enough tobreak your heart, then it's not
close enough to be a rivalry.
Chris Jolly (43:53):
Yeah, that's very true.
Patrick Escolas (43:55):
No, Chris, thank you so much for your time.
I appreciate it. Yeah, if youever need another bald guy to
blind people on your on yourwith the glare, you know who to
call.
Chris Jolly (44:05):
Yeah, absolutely.
We'll do it.
Patrick Escolas (44:07):
Thanks Chris.
You have a great one, man.
Announcer (44:13):
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information about BanyanTechnology, visit
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