April 25, 2025 • 45 mins
In this debut episode of To Hum is Human, I talk with legendary tennis player and coach Judy Dixon about overcoming doubt, trusting intuition, and staying grounded in high-pressure moments—on and off the court.
From Wimbledon to Title IX, Judy shares powerful insights on resilience, self-belief, and listening to your inner voice at any age.
Find me on Instagram @ToHumisHuman and www.sonorouslight.com
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Episode Transcript
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UNKNOWN (00:00):
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (00:18):
Hello, friends.
Welcome to the very firstofficial episode of To Hum is
Human, the podcast where weexplore the transformative power
of tuning into our intuition toexpress our passionate purpose.
I'm your host, Donna Bell, andI'm so thankful you are taking
(00:38):
the time to listen.
In this episode, we will exploreovercoming doubt, trusting
yourself in times ofuncertainty.
My guest today will show us thatwhen we tune in and trust our
instincts and inner wisdom, wecan be unstoppable.
I'm so excited about what wisdomwe can unlock.
(01:01):
Judy Dixon is an American tennisplayer and a former collegiate
tennis coach.
As a teen, she was a doublespartner with Billie Jean King.
On the pro circuit, she playedat Wimbledon and the US Open.
Judy has also worked as ajournalist at NBC, PBS, and ABC,
(01:22):
and she was the first woman todo professional sports color
commentary, specifically for theBoston Lobsters of World Team
Tennis.
And not only that, Judy was thefirst woman nominated for an
Emmy Award in sportsbroadcasting.
Judy's in her 70s, yet shecontinues to play nationally and
(01:43):
internationally.
In fact, she just returned froma tournament in Alabama and will
be off to another tournament inWisconsin in May.
So please welcome Judy.
Thank you.
I'm glad to be here.
Now, you are such an inspirationfor me, Judy.
I've wanted to have thisconversation with you for a
(02:05):
while now.
And truth be told, ourconnection is through tennis.
You were my tennis coach for aperiod of time when I was
playing competitively as a USTAplayer.
But during that time, I feltthat what you were teaching
wasn't just about tennis, butmore about life in general.
And what's fascinating is you'rein your 70s and you're still
(02:29):
competing at a high level.
What drew you to this incrediblesport?
SPEAKER_01 (02:36):
I think that I got into the sport as a mistake.
And it was probably the greatestmistake I ever made.
I grew up in a family where myfather would be working.
My mother wasn't working.
She would go to the beach in thesummer and sit on the beach and
knit.
And I had a younger sister thatwould go with her and my older
(02:58):
sister, seven years older.
would go and take group tennislessons.
And I was at the time nine and ahalf, I believe.
And my sister, my older sistercouldn't stand tennis.
So she said to me, if you go andtake my place at these clinics,
(03:18):
I will give you a quarter.
So the entire summer I went, Itook these clinics.
I had no idea.
I used her tennis racket.
At the end of the summer, thecoach, the pro at that club said
to my parents, Judy has sometalent.
And my parents said, no, you'reteaching Pam.
And he said, believe me, I amnot.
(03:38):
And so that's how it began.
And my older sister always said,you know, that she deserves
credit.
all the credit in the world,plus the money back, right?
Plus money back.
And so that's how I got into it.
But from the first time I hit atennis ball, it was
life-changing for me.
Life-changing in a way that whenI was quite young, I was quite
(03:59):
good.
Meaning when I was 11 years old,I was number three in the
country.
Oh my gosh.
And you learn.
And again, I was considered tobe special, special, special
until I started to lose.
And then there were years whereI was losing a lot and I had to
go through all that that meant.
And in an individual sport, asopposed to a team sport,
(04:23):
learning about losing at age 13,14, 15 by yourself, it's a big
lesson to learn.
And how do you come back fromthat?
How do you have grit andresilience at a very early age?
early age when in fact youhaven't had enough life lessons
(04:46):
to have that, right?
So then you go through all ofthe, I would say, depressed time
that you do as a teenager andthen you come out the other end
or you don't.
And I did come out the otherend.
I've never stopped playingtennis.
I will watch anybody play.
There's something about when Iwalk on the tennis court, there
(05:08):
is something for me that istransforming.
I feel like no matter what isgoing on in the world, the
minute my foot is on the tenniscourt, I feel like I'm safe and
at home.
SPEAKER_00 (05:21):
That's such a profound feeling.
And to know that about yourselfand about playing this game,
essentially, is sort of a way ofbeing in this space.
Now, I'm curious, do you thinkthat failure plays a role in in
strengthening a player's abilityto trust themselves in the
(05:42):
future?
Can it be a teacher, a valuableteacher failure?
SPEAKER_01 (05:47):
I think completely.
I'll give you two examples.
One is I have a grandson nowwho's 16.
He's six foot three.
He's a basketball player andhe's injured.
And he just, my son just wroteme a note saying, can you send a
text to Devin?
Devin is my grandson.
Can you send a text to himbecause he's very down because
he's injured?
And I sent him a text aboutresilience and grit.
(06:09):
And I said, a lack of resiliencecan lead to depression.
But if you look at being pusheddown or having things happen
that are out of your control asa way to learn, then what you'll
do is you'll develop grit.
And I think that grit is one ofthe things that determines
(06:29):
athletes' ability to perform.
In the locker room at UMass,when I was coaching there, the
women's team said, The biggestposter that I had up was the
word grit and the definition ofsuch underneath.
And in my sport, because matchesare played day one and then day
two and then back to back, youknow, day three, day four, day
(06:52):
five.
And you see that on the pro tourthat there isn't time.
There isn't time for reflectionfor the good and there isn't
time much for the wallowing inthe bad.
You sort of get on with it.
But grit, I think, gives you thebricks and the mortar that
starts to build you up.
And without that, and withoutthe losses that come from that,
(07:12):
you can't have that toughness.
And I think that we make a bigmistake, and I would say in this
area, in the Valley, where wesay everybody wins.
Everybody wins, right?
So if you're playing basketball,we give everybody five and a
half minutes, whether they'rethe best ones or the not best
ones.
I think that it's reallyimportant to learn about winning
(07:35):
and learn about losing.
and learning about growing fromboth of those.
SPEAKER_00 (07:41):
Adversity, essentially.
SPEAKER_01 (07:42):
Absolutely.
Adversity makes you stronger.
I mean, there is no doubt.
SPEAKER_00 (07:47):
Well, in any competitive sport, there's
always the doubt, can I win?
And then the doubt of, am I goodenough?
Yes.
Do you think thatself-compassion plays a role in
overcoming doubt?
SPEAKER_01 (08:01):
I think that overcoming doubt comes about
Because you've done the work,you've done the sort of
fundamental work, right?
So in order to be good atsomething, you have to learn the
fundamentals.
You have to develop afoundation.
And once you do that, you expandon those, you refine those, and
(08:25):
you refine those in a way thatsuits your personality.
right?
So your style on the tenniscourt, once you've learned your
fundamentals and yourfoundation, what you're going to
do to expand that for you isgoing to be different than what
I would do for me, because Ihave a different personality.
I might have a different styleand all that kind of stuff.
But then I think that thecompassion is to understand that
(08:48):
you've done the work.
There is this thing about If youwant to be decent, then you do
X.
If you want to be good, you doY.
If you want to be great, you doZ, right?
And if you have what it takes tobe the best, then you optimize
your potential.
And I think that some of this isphysical and a lot of it and
(09:11):
most of it is spiritual slashmental.
And that is the way with protennis.
And that is also the way withclub tennis.
And some of it is to embraceyour weaknesses and learn from
those and also embrace yourstrengths.
So both of those.
(09:32):
But I'm a big person thatbelieves in...
SPEAKER_02 (09:35):
I believe that in
SPEAKER_01 (09:43):
adversity, if you have the ability to...
Clear your mind to breathe, tounderstand that you've done the
work.
Then you open yourself up to thepossibility of intuition coming
in.
And I think understanding that,I mean, we don't understand what
intuition is.
(10:03):
I don't think we understandthat.
But certainly to have the senseto embrace that intuition will
take over when all the otherthings, you know, you cannot on
the tennis court overthink.
Right.
I mean, if you overthinkintellectually, you will not be
able to do anything with yourbody.
(10:23):
So you have to get out of yourown way.
And that's where I think theintuition comes in.
And that's important, I think.
SPEAKER_00 (10:31):
Yeah.
Well, how would you defineintuition?
intuition?
Because, you know, speak aboutintuition.
I know this just from gettinglessons from you and the ability
to sort of read your opponent asyou're playing.
Can you speak about that,please?
SPEAKER_01 (10:48):
Yeah.
I think intuition is the bridgebetween the conscious and the
unconscious mind, right?
And it is sort of trusting yourinner compass and trusting
Trusting that you, I mean, youcan't avoid being uncomfortable
(11:10):
on the tennis court or any othersport kind of thing.
You can't afford being there.
If you understand thatdiscomfort is part of the sport,
right?
It's part of the sport.
And then you become sort of atpeace with the discomfort,
SPEAKER_02 (11:28):
right?
SPEAKER_01 (11:28):
That's fine.
And then you have a perceptionthat if I can focus and I'm sort
of, keen on this, you know, thatif you can not have too much in
your head, but if you can sortof channel your focus and keep
it very simple, then you allowfor the other spaces to be
(11:48):
filled with intuition, I think.
What happens to athletes at alllevels is there's too many
thoughts in the head, right?
It's very jumbled and Andthere's too many things I could
do.
I could do this shot, or I coulddo that shot, or that person is
doing this, or the wind isbothering me.
All this, too many thoughts, andthen you can't do anything.
(12:09):
So it is a matter of clearingout.
And it's not a matter of thosekinds of things don't go through
my head.
They do go through my head, butI can whittle them down to a
very small focus, probablyfaster than other people could
who are still way out here whenthe point starts.
SPEAKER_02 (12:29):
And
SPEAKER_01 (12:30):
for me, when the point starts, I'm now in here,
which leaves the space, right?
And I know that this is truebecause there are times when I'm
playing tennis where I am...
I know it's not just me hittingthe ball.
I know that.
And those days, I can't bringthem back when I want.
They just either are or theyaren't, right?
(12:52):
But they certainly have beenthere.
It's a matter of, I think,being...
Again, we go back to this word,mentally resilient.
But mental resilience means thatyou're allowing the intuition to
come in and to trust theintuition, right?
I mean, too much thinking andtennis makes your body, it has a
(13:14):
physical outcome.
So your body gets tense andtight, which is the opposite of
what you need at that moment.
Your breathing gets differentand your thinking gets jumbled.
Period.
End of match.
SPEAKER_00 (13:28):
That's it.
Before you even start hittingthe ball like that, essentially.
So, you know, tennis is so full.
of unpredictable moments.
You have no idea.
You may have done the report onthe player you're playing
against, but you have no ideawhat's going to happen in the
match.
And so how do you remain calmand composed when the outcome is
(13:53):
so uncertain?
Like, do you have particularstrategies to help you with this
mental resilience, justpractically?
SPEAKER_01 (14:00):
Yes.
So for me, The things that I dowhen I'm very nervous.
First of all, I remind myselfthat I like pressure.
All right.
I say to myself, you know,there's this whole thing about
Billie Jean King saying pressureis a privilege, right?
Yes.
And that there is a sign as youenter the center court at the
(14:24):
U.S.
Open.
This is pressure is a privilege.
Then there is a sign atWimbledon.
There is a poem by RudyardKipling.
And it's called If.
And the If poem has a line in itthat says, if you can treat
triumph and disaster both thesame.
And that's really right, whichis you win X, you lose X, right?
(14:46):
So it's not, you're not up,down, up, up, down, up, down.
And it's all really those twothings in those two big
tournaments are basically thesame kind of thing.
So for me, understand that Ilove to compete.
If I didn't love to compete andI'm 75 years old, I wouldn't be
playing tournaments.
I just would be playing locallybecause I love it so much, but I
(15:08):
love to compete.
So I love to test my person hoodand my game against other
people.
Okay.
So when things are tough, firstof all, I say, enjoy the battle.
Enjoy it because that's whyyou're here.
Okay.
You've trained yourself.
to be ready.
And again, I like to do this.
So if things are bad, I slowdown.
(15:29):
I make sure I'm breathing.
I go back to the fence.
I do play with more intentionrather than less.
I keep what's important in mymind and what's not important
out there.
So instead of thinking that, oh,there's my friend Jill over
there, or it's at a windy dayand i hate wind or whatever
(15:51):
could be going through my mindat the time i keep myself very
focused and the focus is on asimple strategy i'm going what i
can control what i can controlis my thought process is very
focused my my preparation as icome ready to hit the ball is
slow i trust my body um and Itrust my breath.
(16:16):
And then the other thing I trustis my movement, my movement on
the court, because those are thethings I can only control what I
can't control.
And in tennis, I can't make myopponent play a certain way or
anything, but there also is forme in a pressure situation, I
want to be the person who makesthe first move.
(16:38):
And so I, I want to be I want tobe ahead of what I always say to
myself is try to stay ahead ofthe point rather than behind the
point.
So it's like being ahead ofpain, like you take your pain
medication so that you're aheadof the pain.
You don't wait until you're inpain and then take the pain
(16:59):
medication after.
So in the tennis court, I wantto be the person in control of
the point, whether I miss orwhether I don't miss.
I'd rather be doing something tosomeone as opposed to being done
And that's just my style.
SPEAKER_00 (17:14):
Yeah.
Well, and, you know, you'veknown this about yourself
throughout your whole career.
This is obviously one of yourstrengths.
And when you think aboutcoaching players, especially
club players, I think, you know,in the collegiate realm, they're
definitely more programmed to bemore assertive and aggressive.
But sort of when you're coachingplayers who aren't quite at that
(17:37):
level, but still very good, howdo you...
guide them to sort of trust andknow when they should act sort
of more assertively or maybetake a less riskier approach
during a match?
SPEAKER_01 (17:54):
Well, I think as a coach and as a teacher, First of
all, you have to understand thestudent.
Each one is different, right?
Each person I teach has adifferent set of skills, has a
different personality, has adifferent desire.
So there is not one way.
I don't teach everybody the sameway.
So my first job is to understandthe person, understand what they
(18:17):
come to me with, what they cometo me with, what desire they
have, okay?
And then I try to work withthat.
And in understanding, inteaching, I get a chance to get,
maybe after the second hour, Iunderstand who they are.
I can sort of get it after awhile.
Women are different than menwhen I'm teaching.
Women really need support,confidence, less from the head
(18:43):
because they're all jumbledanyway, much more in...
So there is a term in psychologyand they talk about this years
ago, something called don't pushthe river.
And that's the term about notadding too much, not pushing too
much, not taking, giving someonemore than they can handle and
which gets them all confused andeverything.
(19:04):
And so I try to teach that wayat this kind of level where I'm
giving them always, always,always, I'm trying to give them
the support that they need inorder to grow.
With men, you could be much moreassertive, much pushier, much
more directive.
(19:25):
Because I coached two teams atUMass at one point.
And so for the men, it was,you're going to do this because
you're going to do this becauseyou're going to do this.
And with women, it's, let's seehow we as a team can get the
best out of you.
And so very, very differentways, I think.
But But the women, you know,working with women is much more
(19:49):
relational, I think.
And women learn better when theyare relaxed, confident, and open
to learning because they'rehappier.
Right?
I mean, those are the thingsthat I have to supply for them
to allow them to
SPEAKER_00 (20:12):
almost get out of their own way.
SPEAKER_02 (20:14):
Mm-hmm.
Well,
SPEAKER_00 (20:15):
I know that that's what makes you such an effective
coach because you really do seeeach individual player.
I've seen many coaches out theresort of subscribe this one size
fits all approach.
If you just do this and it's allabout mechanics, right?
But they really don't thinkabout the person who's actually
there in front of them.
And that's why I was reallystruck by your coaching.
(20:38):
And in tennis, there are manyrules and strategies that are
employed differently.
during a match and in these highpressure moments as you stated
sometimes as you're playingthese sort of rules and
strategies just take over theoptions are limitless in your
head so how do you even get yourplayer to just say yes what's
(21:02):
the balance between sort of thatlogic or analysis and then
actually the approach you'resupposed to be using as a player
SPEAKER_01 (21:11):
Well, first of all, I think that every person at
that level, at the kind of clublevel or USTA level, if I gave
you a piece of paper, if I justgave you a piece of paper and I
said, Donna Bell, write on oneside your strengths and write
down your weaknesses, which sidewould be longer?
SPEAKER_00 (21:27):
The weaknesses, no doubt.
For
SPEAKER_01 (21:30):
everybody, right?
For every single woman that Iteach, the weakness page half
is...
So long we need another page.
And the strengths are, let methink, one or two or three.
That's it.
Now, my job then is just to makesure that that strength side
grows.
And the weakness side getspushed up.
(21:52):
So the weakness side, that's thelessons, the lessons of
technique, skill, that kind ofthing.
Those are where lessons comeinto being.
So I make sure that they canserve or they can hit a forehand
or a volley in a kind oftechnique kind of way.
And then the other side.
is about let's trust a strategythat we can put together that in
(22:16):
a time of pressure or in anadverse time, you feel
comfortable using because theright side has been taken care
of by the technique skills.
You can do that.
So as far as a skill goes, youcan hit eight forehands if you
have the skill of it.
Now let's put together astrategy that when you're
(22:37):
playing a match, you get to useyour strengths.
But if you only think you havethree strengths, that match is
going to be over really quickly,right?
Really quickly, because myserve's not working today.
Now I'm down to two strengths.
But if you have a list of, Ihave a good second serve, I move
well, I know how to place theball where I want it, I'm
(22:59):
steady, you know, I can slice, Ican whatever.
Now the strategy becomes moreinteresting, right?
And I also have more, I havemore passion to play.
I have more space in my head forthe intuition to come in.
And now I don't have to thinkabout anything because all I
(23:19):
think about is my strategy.
And my strategy incorporates mystrengths.
And my strengths are in my headthat I own them.
I don't think about them.
Like when I play tennis, I don'tthink that I'm never going to
miss a forehand.
I don't think about missing.
I think about I'm going to hitthe forehand there or the
(23:39):
forehand there.
because I have trust for that.
And the trust comes from theconfidence and the confidence
comes from having done wellenough to develop the bricks and
everything.
But yeah, I mean, again, it hasto do with building, building
blocks, right?
Building, building, building.
So if you're always losing or ifyou're always not knowing, not
(24:05):
being able to trust, yourtechnique or whatever, and then
you can't allow space in yourhead for your intuition, then
you're going to be a jumble andyou can't do it.
SPEAKER_00 (24:18):
And your opponent will see that.
If they're a good player,they'll read that about you
before you even start playingand play to that.
SPEAKER_01 (24:25):
Yes.
In the warm-up, that's where yousee, right?
I mean...
And the funny thing is that whenpeople at this level are
playing, there would be manytimes where you won't notice
until 45 minutes into the match,oh, the person's left-handed.
I've done that myself.
Guilty.
And why is that?
Because you're not looking out.
(24:47):
You're so focused on what'sgoing on in your head, which is,
you know, filled with too much,too much, too much, that you
can't notice that the person islefty.
Right.
I mean, that's the kind.
And that's you're not the onlyone.
I mean, that's what happens allthe time.
Oh, I didn't know.
I'm like, how could you not knowthe minute the person walks on
the court?
She's got the racket in her lefthand because I didn't look.
(25:10):
Right.
I didn't look because I was Iwas so here.
Right.
That's too much.
So and then there's no, youknow, really what you're hoping
for in all tennis matches isheightened flow.
And if you've ever had that.
That's what you want torecreate, heightened flow.
(25:30):
But flow does not happen whenthe world is a jumble, as we
know now with what's going on inthe world.
Right?
Yes.
So, I mean, yeah.
So, you know, I mean, the wayit's going now is our president
is throwing a million thingsagainst the wall and we're stuck
in which one do we focus on andwe don't know where to go and
(25:52):
all this kind of stuff.
And so you just, you get, whatdoes it do to you?
It shuts you down.
And you feel ineffective.
You feel powerless.
That happens in sport.
But you do in sport, unlike inpolitics, in sport, you can work
to get rid of that.
You can work to calm the noise.
(26:13):
You can work to avoid thediscomfort.
You can work to put yourself ina place where you can float.
SPEAKER_00 (26:22):
and function even.
Like sometimes it's soparalyzing when you realize all
that's going on in the world andsort of how do you go back to,
well, this is what I cancontrol.
SPEAKER_01 (26:33):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (27:03):
visualization or kind of a rehearsal before you
play to sort of say, I am goingto hit it there and then I'm
going to hit it there.
SPEAKER_01 (27:13):
So before I serve, when I'm about ready to serve,
I'm looking where I'm going togo.
So when I'm going to serve andstart at the point, that's what
I do.
Or if I'm going to receiveserve, that's what I do.
I visualize where the ball isgoing to go, whether it comes to
my forehand or my backhand, I'mvisualizing.
After that, I can't because Idon't have that time and I can't
(27:35):
control the next ball that'scoming to me.
When I'm at a tournament,however, and I look at the draw
and everything, I don't spend alot of time, but I can visualize
the matches of people that arein front of me because mostly I
know who they are.
I do visualize playing them.
I don't think about playingthem.
I visualize playing them becausein a lot of cases, I have played
(27:58):
them before and I know how thematches flow.
I know how they flow.
And I'm lucky enough to win alot of those.
And so I have to remember whatthat, I don't remember what it
felt like.
I remember what it looked like,what it looked like.
So I remember it in the head ofthat was me hitting the ball.
(28:19):
That was her hitting the ball.
And that's how it ended up well.
So visualization is reallyimportant.
And I will also say that Yearsago, years and years ago, Billie
Jean once said to me, she had adouble knee replacement surgery,
two knees at one time.
SPEAKER_00 (28:36):
My goodness.
SPEAKER_01 (28:37):
Right, it was pretty hard.
And she took the time to healand she would sit on her bed
every day for 45 minutes with atennis ball, a tennis ball in
front of her on the bed and justlook at the tennis ball.
And she said, I realized howlittle when I play, I actually
(28:57):
look at the tennis ball.
She said, I really looked at it.
What did the seams look like?
What does the felt look like?
I turned it and I felt it.
And she said it was amazing tome.
And that's also a big deal.
SPEAKER_00 (29:10):
That's such a curious thing to do, but it
makes so much sense becauseyou're right.
At the moment, although when yousay when you're really in the
flow, the ball is as big as atennis ball.
I mean, as big as a beach ball.
Yeah.
or baseball, because you canreally see it and feel it and
know how it's traveling.
But for her to just sort of lookat this stationary ball and take
(29:34):
a moment with that, like, I feellike that's such a powerful
thing to connect with justyourself and where you're at
sort of, you know, during herhealing process, but also where
she was at in her career, in herlife and where she was with her
tennis.
How, wow.
Right.
So we're going to hop on to adifferent scenario here, dealing
(29:56):
with or speaking aboutovercoming doubt and times of
uncertainty.
You are known as a pioneer,Judy, in women's athletics.
And not only for your skills,obviously, but also for being
the first person to sue a majoruniversity for sex
(30:16):
discrimination online.
Under Title.
And I'm curious, first of all,what led you to make this
decision?
Because this would, I imagine,bring up feelings of
trepidation, maybe pressure orconcern about your career at the
time.
Could you bring us back to thatmoment and sort of what was
(30:37):
going through
SPEAKER_02 (30:38):
your
SPEAKER_00 (30:39):
mind?
SPEAKER_01 (30:40):
First of all, I think you have to remember that
I was fairly young.
I was probably...
mid-20s, maybe 26, somethinglike that.
I had been living in LosAngeles, graduated from the
University of SouthernCalifornia, and I got a phone
call from the secretary to thepresident of Yale University.
(31:04):
He called me, and he had knownme since I was a little girl.
I grew up on the East Coast.
And he called me and said, wouldyou like to come back and be the
women's tennis coach here?
And I had just played pro tennisfor a year and I found it to be
very lonely and I was nevergoing to be good enough.
I knew that.
I had played Wimbledon and thatwas my goal and it was like,
(31:26):
okay, I'm done.
And so, but anyway, I neverwanted to be a tennis coach.
I said, no, thank you.
Okay.
He called me back a week later.
He said, we only had women atYale for, I don't know, it was
three years or something likethat.
Two years.
We are going to create aposition for you, if you take
(31:48):
it.
It's called Coordinator ofWomen's Athletics.
It's an administrative position.
You will report to the Directorof Athletics, and also you'll be
the women's tennis coach.
Okay, so for me, growing up onthe East Coast, it was returning
home.
Yale, obviously, big dealposition for someone who's
(32:10):
young.
SPEAKER_03 (32:10):
Sure.
SPEAKER_01 (32:11):
And it was an administrative position.
And so I thought, okay, now Iwould like to do that.
So I went back.
The first year I was there, Iwas, again, I had just come off
the pro tour.
So I just wasn't used to what Isaw there, which was there were
no varsity sports at Yale.
I mean, it was ridiculous.
I had to recruit for sevensports.
(32:32):
They were sports.
But I did the recruiting forlacrosse.
I did the recruiting for fieldhockey.
I mean, I don't know how to dothat.
I also was privy to the budgets.
which were ridiculous fortennis.
I mean, my salary was as thewomen's tennis coach was$10,000
less than the men's tenniscoach.
And I was also the coordinatorof women's athletics and I was
(32:53):
paid 10.
Wow.
There were four indoor courts.
The women got one, the men gotthree.
There were no athletic trainersfor women.
They had to, if men came intothe athletic training room, they
just cut in front of the women.
So the women would invariably belate to practice because all the
men would come in ahead of themand push them out of the way.
Okay.
(33:13):
I mean, the facilities wereterrible.
It was, it went on and on and onand on.
And I, I thought, and I willtell you the story going back.
When I was in LA, one time I wasplaying tennis at the LA tennis
club.
There are 24 courts there.
I was playing on a certain courtwith a woman who had won
Wimbledon, a woman who wasnumber one in the United States,
(33:35):
and my doubles partner.
Four men, older men, walked outon the court that we were
playing on, even though therewere 23 open courts.
They walked out to our court,and they said, we want this
court.
Wow.
And we had to pack up and leave.
Okay.
And I never forgot that, not forme, but for this woman, Louise
Brough, who was an ex-Wimbledonchampion.
(33:56):
I thought this is embarrassingand demeaning, et cetera.
So then when I got to Yale andthis kind of thing was going on,
I thought I have a big fairnessstreak and I'm going to do
something about it.
So I contacted the EEOC whosaid, indeed, you have a case.
I found a lawyer who would takethis on a contingency because I
had no money.
I'm young and everything.
UNKNOWN (34:17):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (34:17):
And they got involved and we sued Yale, okay?
That's big.
So I'm coming home from work oneday and I pick up the New Haven
Register, which is the localnewspaper, and my picture is
plastered on the front of thepaper.
The New York Times called me.
ABC, Wide World of Sports calledme.
(34:40):
My parents stopped speaking tome for about a year.
Because when you grow up like Idid, you do not sue Yale
University, right?
I was taken to the localrestaurant, Maury's Restaurant
at Yale, which used to be menonly.
And by the man who hired me, heoffered me$15,000 to go away.
(35:02):
You're kidding.
Yeah.
Wow.
And I said no, because I wasn'tsuing for myself.
I mean, he didn't get it.
I was suing for all of women'ssports, right?
All of women's sports.
So.
It was scary.
I was scared.
None of this was great.
My parents are not speaking tome.
It's all over the news.
It's all over everything.
Summer comes and I get a letterfrom Yale University saying,
(35:24):
we've restructured, of course.
We've restructured.
Your position no longer isavailable.
And now you're going to becomeassistant director of media
relations.
Now, I've never written a pressrelease in my life.
I don't know what I'm doing.
We're going to change youroffice from over here to this
big building in the gym to RayTompkins house, which is
(35:47):
adjacent to the gym.
And my office was in the coffeeroom with the coffee machine.
So all of the coaches would comein and they're copying and
every, you know, it was amadhouse.
It was a teeny, it was like acloset.
I mean, that's where my officewas.
And so I knew I had to leave,right?
I mean, there was no chance Ineeded to stay at Yale.
And Then I got another job.
(36:10):
I got a job working forColgate-Palmolive, a subsidiary
of Colgate-Palmolive calledDancroft Sporting Goods.
And when I left, I had, youknow, again, Yale lawyers.
I had to go get deposition afterdeposition after deposition.
I lived in Rhode Island inProvidence, and I had to keep
going back to New Haven to thefancy...
Yale law offices.
(36:30):
But now I have a very thickthing like this, which is
depositions, and it says JudyDixon versus Yale University,
and I have that to hold on to.
Wow.
My lawyer was doing the best hecould, but who knows?
And then a week before, so threeyears go by, and a week before
we were supposed to go to court,Yale decided to settle.
(36:54):
And in settling...
they made me sign something thatsaid I would not go to the press
for five years.
That's fine.
That was fine.
But the things that come out ofit are that when I took the
UMass team back and we playedthe Yale women's team, the Yale
coach at the time years latersaid to the Yale women, because
of you, because of you, becauseof her, we now have what we
(37:18):
have, right?
Which was quite amazing.
And also if you, I mean, thiswas always amazing to me.
If you Wikipedia my name, whatcomes up is Pioneer in Women's
Sports, which I never thought Iwas a Pioneer in Women's Sports.
What I thought I was, was ayoung woman hating the
unfairness of it all, right?
(37:38):
I mean, that was my big thing.
And I think that when you Whenyou create major change, you
don't do it because you'recreating major change.
You do it because you know it'sthe right thing to do.
And so that's sort of how thathappened.
And I'll tell you one otherstory, which is amazing.
I was at Yale.
They had four tennis courts.
(37:58):
The women had one.
The men had three.
And one day I decided we weregoing to take two.
We were just going to take two.
So I said to the women, I'mgoing to be on the front court.
I'm going to be feeding you.
tennis balls.
You're going to be hittingtennis balls.
Something's going to happen.
Don't move.
Don't blink.
Just keep doing what you'redoing.
So I'm hitting tennis balls.
The male tennis coach sends overfour men from the men's team and
(38:22):
he tells them to serve.
Now, if they serve, they'regoing to hit me in the head.
They're going to hit me in theback and serve is going to be
quite hard.
And so I just stood there and Ikept feeding and the women were
like, you know, like taking adeep breath.
I said, no, just keep hittingit.
And then the Yale tennis coachyells, I said, serve to the men
because they weren't, they werestanding there.
And the captain of the men'steam said to him, we're
(38:46):
absolutely not going to do that.
And they walked off the court,right?
Wow.
Which was, thank goodness thathappened, right?
There I thought, oh, there is amale advocate that's coming
through, right?
So there was a lot of pressureon me But if you are, in my
case, if you are knowing that,you know, I don't like it when
(39:09):
people aren't treated fairly.
I don't like it when womenaren't treated fairly.
I don't like it when animals arenot treated fairly, but it's
enough to make you stand up.
And you don't, and again, Ididn't stand up because I
thought, oh, this is important.
I stood up because I know it wasthe right thing to do.
SPEAKER_00 (39:25):
Well, I'm thankful, and I'm sure listeners who,
especially women players, arethankful for the legacy that you
really created.
Like, it changed the game.
So I will have to say, yes, youwere a pioneer, whether you knew
it or not at the time, butobviously you felt really
compelled to act.
And I'd have to say not everyonewould have the same sort of
(39:49):
stance and confidence enough tofeel like they could do
something about it.
And, you know, what a powerfultestament.
to that that was in you at thetime.
And I can only imagine howvulnerable you felt sort of
doing that because that's a bit,you know, it's like the giant
and you won.
Like that was amazing.
(40:10):
That was, you know, words can'treally describe it, but you've
created a legacy.
So thank you for that.
Thank you for that.
That's true inspiration.
So As we wind down here, I justwant to know, aside from wanting
to win, aside from wanting tocontinue just to be physically
active, what keeps you motivatedin this day and age?
SPEAKER_01 (40:33):
So I ask myself that every six months, because now
that I'm older and my body isdoing things that I'm not so
pleased with, I have moreinjuries, et cetera.
I also have an unbelievableconnection to the other women
that are playing.
I play tennis because I loveplaying tennis.
(40:55):
I compete because I lovecompeting.
If I started playing poorly, Iwould probably not compete
anymore because I just wouldn'thave that resilience that I
would need to keep doing that.
But what I'm driven to do is tokeep the connection with people
that live not only in the UnitedStates, but around the world.
So when I'm pick to play worldteams and I go to Croatia or I
(41:18):
go to Turkey or I go toMallorca, I see people that have
been my friends for years fromSpain or from Africa or
whatever.
I feel how unbelievable thissport is.
Stepping back from competitionwould be a great loss at this
point, a loss of connection.
SPEAKER_00 (41:36):
And tennis is really a social sport.
Like when you think about it,maybe not on the court.
Yes.
because you're not supposed to,it's a different connection on
the court, but there is a sortof camaraderie.
There is this support.
There is this sort of bringingup other people as they're
playing and celebrating theirwins and being there for their
losses.
(41:56):
There's something about thatthat carries over into just your
relationships in life.
And there's something quitenourishing and powerful about
those connections.
So Judy, what's next for you?
Is there anything excitingcoming up on the horizon?
SPEAKER_01 (42:13):
Yes.
Well, okay.
Besides, you know, Wisconsin isnot too exciting.
But in October, I will becaptain of the Women's 75 team
that will be playing in a placecalled Bol, B-O-L, Croatia.
Wow.
It's an island off the coast ofCroatia.
And the USTA sends...
the top four women in the UnitedStates in my age group, of which
(42:36):
I am.
And so we'll go to Croatia for10 days and play against other
countries.
We probably play against 15other women's teams.
And that's the next big thingfor me.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (42:49):
That's such an honor and such a beautiful way to
showcase your skills and workingwith people and also being a
player.
Because I've seen you, I've seenpictures of you, and I know how
can people stay connected withwhat's going on with you?
Because I know you have a blogand a website.
You can go onto
SPEAKER_01 (43:09):
Judy Dixon Tennis and you can see that I do a blog
about the tournament.
In fact, I'll do one this weekabout a tournament I just played
and also I do every once in awhile I'll also do an
instructional piece which I'mhappy to do and actually
interestingly enough the personthat does all this for me Ruth
Critcher she's the person thatsuggests different things she'll
(43:31):
say I think we need to talkabout women poaching or women
serving under stress or how toplay mixed doubles, whatever.
She sends this out and I golike, oh, I could write
something about that.
So it's not often that I come upwith the ideas myself, but she
does that.
I do the blog because that'sbeen my experience, but she does
the, oh, let's do something onthis.
(43:51):
And I like doing that.
I like it.
So I think that that's That'show they can get in touch with
me for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (43:56):
Well, I appreciate reading those.
And I've sort of implementedsome of those techniques as well
when I do get a chance to playtennis.
Your life, Judy, is such atestament on how to believe in
yourself and your ability tomaintain a centered approach.
It's really helped you performunder pressure in uncertain
(44:18):
conditions.
But mostly it's your ability toplay tennis at such a high level
is incredible.
been such a journey for you andfor the players you interact
with the community you interactwith it's such an inspiring
thing to watch and you'vetouched so many including myself
thank you so I highly appreciateour conversation today and I
(44:41):
know listeners will find so manywisdom nuggets as I say in our
conversation so thank you againJudy for being on the podcast
and I wish you well thank you onyour upcoming tour and Yeah, and
I'll see you at the courts.
Yeah, definitely.
Great.
Take care.
Thank you.
(45:02):
Thanks so much for tuning intoday.
I'm so glad you spent this timewith me.
If something in this episoderesonated, feel free to share it
or pass it along to someone whomight need that little spark.
I'd also love to hear what cameup for you.
Send me a message or drop acomment on Instagram at
ToHumIsHuman.
(45:23):
Until next time, keep humming.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (00:18):
Hello, friends.
Welcome to the very firstofficial episode of To Hum is
Human, the podcast where weexplore the transformative power
of tuning into our intuition toexpress our passionate purpose.
I'm your host, Donna Bell, andI'm so thankful you are taking
(00:38):
the time to listen.
In this episode, we will exploreovercoming doubt, trusting
yourself in times ofuncertainty.
My guest today will show us thatwhen we tune in and trust our
instincts and inner wisdom, wecan be unstoppable.
I'm so excited about what wisdomwe can unlock.
(01:01):
Judy Dixon is an American tennisplayer and a former collegiate
tennis coach.
As a teen, she was a doublespartner with Billie Jean King.
On the pro circuit, she playedat Wimbledon and the US Open.
Judy has also worked as ajournalist at NBC, PBS, and ABC,
(01:22):
and she was the first woman todo professional sports color
commentary, specifically for theBoston Lobsters of World Team
Tennis.
And not only that, Judy was thefirst woman nominated for an
Emmy Award in sportsbroadcasting.
Judy's in her 70s, yet shecontinues to play nationally and
(01:43):
internationally.
In fact, she just returned froma tournament in Alabama and will
be off to another tournament inWisconsin in May.
So please welcome Judy.
Thank you.
I'm glad to be here.
Now, you are such an inspirationfor me, Judy.
I've wanted to have thisconversation with you for a
(02:05):
while now.
And truth be told, ourconnection is through tennis.
You were my tennis coach for aperiod of time when I was
playing competitively as a USTAplayer.
But during that time, I feltthat what you were teaching
wasn't just about tennis, butmore about life in general.
And what's fascinating is you'rein your 70s and you're still
(02:29):
competing at a high level.
What drew you to this incrediblesport?
SPEAKER_01 (02:36):
I think that I got into the sport as a mistake.
And it was probably the greatestmistake I ever made.
I grew up in a family where myfather would be working.
My mother wasn't working.
She would go to the beach in thesummer and sit on the beach and
knit.
And I had a younger sister thatwould go with her and my older
(02:58):
sister, seven years older.
would go and take group tennislessons.
And I was at the time nine and ahalf, I believe.
And my sister, my older sistercouldn't stand tennis.
So she said to me, if you go andtake my place at these clinics,
(03:18):
I will give you a quarter.
So the entire summer I went, Itook these clinics.
I had no idea.
I used her tennis racket.
At the end of the summer, thecoach, the pro at that club said
to my parents, Judy has sometalent.
And my parents said, no, you'reteaching Pam.
And he said, believe me, I amnot.
(03:38):
And so that's how it began.
And my older sister always said,you know, that she deserves
credit.
all the credit in the world,plus the money back, right?
Plus money back.
And so that's how I got into it.
But from the first time I hit atennis ball, it was
life-changing for me.
Life-changing in a way that whenI was quite young, I was quite
(03:59):
good.
Meaning when I was 11 years old,I was number three in the
country.
Oh my gosh.
And you learn.
And again, I was considered tobe special, special, special
until I started to lose.
And then there were years whereI was losing a lot and I had to
go through all that that meant.
And in an individual sport, asopposed to a team sport,
(04:23):
learning about losing at age 13,14, 15 by yourself, it's a big
lesson to learn.
And how do you come back fromthat?
How do you have grit andresilience at a very early age?
early age when in fact youhaven't had enough life lessons
(04:46):
to have that, right?
So then you go through all ofthe, I would say, depressed time
that you do as a teenager andthen you come out the other end
or you don't.
And I did come out the otherend.
I've never stopped playingtennis.
I will watch anybody play.
There's something about when Iwalk on the tennis court, there
(05:08):
is something for me that istransforming.
I feel like no matter what isgoing on in the world, the
minute my foot is on the tenniscourt, I feel like I'm safe and
at home.
SPEAKER_00 (05:21):
That's such a profound feeling.
And to know that about yourselfand about playing this game,
essentially, is sort of a way ofbeing in this space.
Now, I'm curious, do you thinkthat failure plays a role in in
strengthening a player's abilityto trust themselves in the
(05:42):
future?
Can it be a teacher, a valuableteacher failure?
SPEAKER_01 (05:47):
I think completely.
I'll give you two examples.
One is I have a grandson nowwho's 16.
He's six foot three.
He's a basketball player andhe's injured.
And he just, my son just wroteme a note saying, can you send a
text to Devin?
Devin is my grandson.
Can you send a text to himbecause he's very down because
he's injured?
And I sent him a text aboutresilience and grit.
(06:09):
And I said, a lack of resiliencecan lead to depression.
But if you look at being pusheddown or having things happen
that are out of your control asa way to learn, then what you'll
do is you'll develop grit.
And I think that grit is one ofthe things that determines
(06:29):
athletes' ability to perform.
In the locker room at UMass,when I was coaching there, the
women's team said, The biggestposter that I had up was the
word grit and the definition ofsuch underneath.
And in my sport, because matchesare played day one and then day
two and then back to back, youknow, day three, day four, day
(06:52):
five.
And you see that on the pro tourthat there isn't time.
There isn't time for reflectionfor the good and there isn't
time much for the wallowing inthe bad.
You sort of get on with it.
But grit, I think, gives you thebricks and the mortar that
starts to build you up.
And without that, and withoutthe losses that come from that,
(07:12):
you can't have that toughness.
And I think that we make a bigmistake, and I would say in this
area, in the Valley, where wesay everybody wins.
Everybody wins, right?
So if you're playing basketball,we give everybody five and a
half minutes, whether they'rethe best ones or the not best
ones.
I think that it's reallyimportant to learn about winning
(07:35):
and learn about losing.
and learning about growing fromboth of those.
SPEAKER_00 (07:41):
Adversity, essentially.
SPEAKER_01 (07:42):
Absolutely.
Adversity makes you stronger.
I mean, there is no doubt.
SPEAKER_00 (07:47):
Well, in any competitive sport, there's
always the doubt, can I win?
And then the doubt of, am I goodenough?
Yes.
Do you think thatself-compassion plays a role in
overcoming doubt?
SPEAKER_01 (08:01):
I think that overcoming doubt comes about
Because you've done the work,you've done the sort of
fundamental work, right?
So in order to be good atsomething, you have to learn the
fundamentals.
You have to develop afoundation.
And once you do that, you expandon those, you refine those, and
(08:25):
you refine those in a way thatsuits your personality.
right?
So your style on the tenniscourt, once you've learned your
fundamentals and yourfoundation, what you're going to
do to expand that for you isgoing to be different than what
I would do for me, because Ihave a different personality.
I might have a different styleand all that kind of stuff.
But then I think that thecompassion is to understand that
(08:48):
you've done the work.
There is this thing about If youwant to be decent, then you do
X.
If you want to be good, you doY.
If you want to be great, you doZ, right?
And if you have what it takes tobe the best, then you optimize
your potential.
And I think that some of this isphysical and a lot of it and
(09:11):
most of it is spiritual slashmental.
And that is the way with protennis.
And that is also the way withclub tennis.
And some of it is to embraceyour weaknesses and learn from
those and also embrace yourstrengths.
So both of those.
(09:32):
But I'm a big person thatbelieves in...
SPEAKER_02 (09:35):
I believe that in
SPEAKER_01 (09:43):
adversity, if you have the ability to...
Clear your mind to breathe, tounderstand that you've done the
work.
Then you open yourself up to thepossibility of intuition coming
in.
And I think understanding that,I mean, we don't understand what
intuition is.
(10:03):
I don't think we understandthat.
But certainly to have the senseto embrace that intuition will
take over when all the otherthings, you know, you cannot on
the tennis court overthink.
Right.
I mean, if you overthinkintellectually, you will not be
able to do anything with yourbody.
(10:23):
So you have to get out of yourown way.
And that's where I think theintuition comes in.
And that's important, I think.
SPEAKER_00 (10:31):
Yeah.
Well, how would you defineintuition?
intuition?
Because, you know, speak aboutintuition.
I know this just from gettinglessons from you and the ability
to sort of read your opponent asyou're playing.
Can you speak about that,please?
SPEAKER_01 (10:48):
Yeah.
I think intuition is the bridgebetween the conscious and the
unconscious mind, right?
And it is sort of trusting yourinner compass and trusting
Trusting that you, I mean, youcan't avoid being uncomfortable
(11:10):
on the tennis court or any othersport kind of thing.
You can't afford being there.
If you understand thatdiscomfort is part of the sport,
right?
It's part of the sport.
And then you become sort of atpeace with the discomfort,
SPEAKER_02 (11:28):
right?
SPEAKER_01 (11:28):
That's fine.
And then you have a perceptionthat if I can focus and I'm sort
of, keen on this, you know, thatif you can not have too much in
your head, but if you can sortof channel your focus and keep
it very simple, then you allowfor the other spaces to be
(11:48):
filled with intuition, I think.
What happens to athletes at alllevels is there's too many
thoughts in the head, right?
It's very jumbled and Andthere's too many things I could
do.
I could do this shot, or I coulddo that shot, or that person is
doing this, or the wind isbothering me.
All this, too many thoughts, andthen you can't do anything.
(12:09):
So it is a matter of clearingout.
And it's not a matter of thosekinds of things don't go through
my head.
They do go through my head, butI can whittle them down to a
very small focus, probablyfaster than other people could
who are still way out here whenthe point starts.
SPEAKER_02 (12:29):
And
SPEAKER_01 (12:30):
for me, when the point starts, I'm now in here,
which leaves the space, right?
And I know that this is truebecause there are times when I'm
playing tennis where I am...
I know it's not just me hittingthe ball.
I know that.
And those days, I can't bringthem back when I want.
They just either are or theyaren't, right?
(12:52):
But they certainly have beenthere.
It's a matter of, I think,being...
Again, we go back to this word,mentally resilient.
But mental resilience means thatyou're allowing the intuition to
come in and to trust theintuition, right?
I mean, too much thinking andtennis makes your body, it has a
(13:14):
physical outcome.
So your body gets tense andtight, which is the opposite of
what you need at that moment.
Your breathing gets differentand your thinking gets jumbled.
Period.
End of match.
SPEAKER_00 (13:28):
That's it.
Before you even start hittingthe ball like that, essentially.
So, you know, tennis is so full.
of unpredictable moments.
You have no idea.
You may have done the report onthe player you're playing
against, but you have no ideawhat's going to happen in the
match.
And so how do you remain calmand composed when the outcome is
(13:53):
so uncertain?
Like, do you have particularstrategies to help you with this
mental resilience, justpractically?
SPEAKER_01 (14:00):
Yes.
So for me, The things that I dowhen I'm very nervous.
First of all, I remind myselfthat I like pressure.
All right.
I say to myself, you know,there's this whole thing about
Billie Jean King saying pressureis a privilege, right?
Yes.
And that there is a sign as youenter the center court at the
(14:24):
U.S.
Open.
This is pressure is a privilege.
Then there is a sign atWimbledon.
There is a poem by RudyardKipling.
And it's called If.
And the If poem has a line in itthat says, if you can treat
triumph and disaster both thesame.
And that's really right, whichis you win X, you lose X, right?
(14:46):
So it's not, you're not up,down, up, up, down, up, down.
And it's all really those twothings in those two big
tournaments are basically thesame kind of thing.
So for me, understand that Ilove to compete.
If I didn't love to compete andI'm 75 years old, I wouldn't be
playing tournaments.
I just would be playing locallybecause I love it so much, but I
(15:08):
love to compete.
So I love to test my person hoodand my game against other
people.
Okay.
So when things are tough, firstof all, I say, enjoy the battle.
Enjoy it because that's whyyou're here.
Okay.
You've trained yourself.
to be ready.
And again, I like to do this.
So if things are bad, I slowdown.
(15:29):
I make sure I'm breathing.
I go back to the fence.
I do play with more intentionrather than less.
I keep what's important in mymind and what's not important
out there.
So instead of thinking that, oh,there's my friend Jill over
there, or it's at a windy dayand i hate wind or whatever
(15:51):
could be going through my mindat the time i keep myself very
focused and the focus is on asimple strategy i'm going what i
can control what i can controlis my thought process is very
focused my my preparation as icome ready to hit the ball is
slow i trust my body um and Itrust my breath.
(16:16):
And then the other thing I trustis my movement, my movement on
the court, because those are thethings I can only control what I
can't control.
And in tennis, I can't make myopponent play a certain way or
anything, but there also is forme in a pressure situation, I
want to be the person who makesthe first move.
(16:38):
And so I, I want to be I want tobe ahead of what I always say to
myself is try to stay ahead ofthe point rather than behind the
point.
So it's like being ahead ofpain, like you take your pain
medication so that you're aheadof the pain.
You don't wait until you're inpain and then take the pain
(16:59):
medication after.
So in the tennis court, I wantto be the person in control of
the point, whether I miss orwhether I don't miss.
I'd rather be doing something tosomeone as opposed to being done
And that's just my style.
SPEAKER_00 (17:14):
Yeah.
Well, and, you know, you'veknown this about yourself
throughout your whole career.
This is obviously one of yourstrengths.
And when you think aboutcoaching players, especially
club players, I think, you know,in the collegiate realm, they're
definitely more programmed to bemore assertive and aggressive.
But sort of when you're coachingplayers who aren't quite at that
(17:37):
level, but still very good, howdo you...
guide them to sort of trust andknow when they should act sort
of more assertively or maybetake a less riskier approach
during a match?
SPEAKER_01 (17:54):
Well, I think as a coach and as a teacher, First of
all, you have to understand thestudent.
Each one is different, right?
Each person I teach has adifferent set of skills, has a
different personality, has adifferent desire.
So there is not one way.
I don't teach everybody the sameway.
So my first job is to understandthe person, understand what they
(18:17):
come to me with, what they cometo me with, what desire they
have, okay?
And then I try to work withthat.
And in understanding, inteaching, I get a chance to get,
maybe after the second hour, Iunderstand who they are.
I can sort of get it after awhile.
Women are different than menwhen I'm teaching.
Women really need support,confidence, less from the head
(18:43):
because they're all jumbledanyway, much more in...
So there is a term in psychologyand they talk about this years
ago, something called don't pushthe river.
And that's the term about notadding too much, not pushing too
much, not taking, giving someonemore than they can handle and
which gets them all confused andeverything.
(19:04):
And so I try to teach that wayat this kind of level where I'm
giving them always, always,always, I'm trying to give them
the support that they need inorder to grow.
With men, you could be much moreassertive, much pushier, much
more directive.
(19:25):
Because I coached two teams atUMass at one point.
And so for the men, it was,you're going to do this because
you're going to do this becauseyou're going to do this.
And with women, it's, let's seehow we as a team can get the
best out of you.
And so very, very differentways, I think.
But But the women, you know,working with women is much more
(19:49):
relational, I think.
And women learn better when theyare relaxed, confident, and open
to learning because they'rehappier.
Right?
I mean, those are the thingsthat I have to supply for them
to allow them to
SPEAKER_00 (20:12):
almost get out of their own way.
SPEAKER_02 (20:14):
Mm-hmm.
Well,
SPEAKER_00 (20:15):
I know that that's what makes you such an effective
coach because you really do seeeach individual player.
I've seen many coaches out theresort of subscribe this one size
fits all approach.
If you just do this and it's allabout mechanics, right?
But they really don't thinkabout the person who's actually
there in front of them.
And that's why I was reallystruck by your coaching.
(20:38):
And in tennis, there are manyrules and strategies that are
employed differently.
during a match and in these highpressure moments as you stated
sometimes as you're playingthese sort of rules and
strategies just take over theoptions are limitless in your
head so how do you even get yourplayer to just say yes what's
(21:02):
the balance between sort of thatlogic or analysis and then
actually the approach you'resupposed to be using as a player
SPEAKER_01 (21:11):
Well, first of all, I think that every person at
that level, at the kind of clublevel or USTA level, if I gave
you a piece of paper, if I justgave you a piece of paper and I
said, Donna Bell, write on oneside your strengths and write
down your weaknesses, which sidewould be longer?
SPEAKER_00 (21:27):
The weaknesses, no doubt.
For
SPEAKER_01 (21:30):
everybody, right?
For every single woman that Iteach, the weakness page half
is...
So long we need another page.
And the strengths are, let methink, one or two or three.
That's it.
Now, my job then is just to makesure that that strength side
grows.
And the weakness side getspushed up.
(21:52):
So the weakness side, that's thelessons, the lessons of
technique, skill, that kind ofthing.
Those are where lessons comeinto being.
So I make sure that they canserve or they can hit a forehand
or a volley in a kind oftechnique kind of way.
And then the other side.
is about let's trust a strategythat we can put together that in
(22:16):
a time of pressure or in anadverse time, you feel
comfortable using because theright side has been taken care
of by the technique skills.
You can do that.
So as far as a skill goes, youcan hit eight forehands if you
have the skill of it.
Now let's put together astrategy that when you're
(22:37):
playing a match, you get to useyour strengths.
But if you only think you havethree strengths, that match is
going to be over really quickly,right?
Really quickly, because myserve's not working today.
Now I'm down to two strengths.
But if you have a list of, Ihave a good second serve, I move
well, I know how to place theball where I want it, I'm
(22:59):
steady, you know, I can slice, Ican whatever.
Now the strategy becomes moreinteresting, right?
And I also have more, I havemore passion to play.
I have more space in my head forthe intuition to come in.
And now I don't have to thinkabout anything because all I
(23:19):
think about is my strategy.
And my strategy incorporates mystrengths.
And my strengths are in my headthat I own them.
I don't think about them.
Like when I play tennis, I don'tthink that I'm never going to
miss a forehand.
I don't think about missing.
I think about I'm going to hitthe forehand there or the
(23:39):
forehand there.
because I have trust for that.
And the trust comes from theconfidence and the confidence
comes from having done wellenough to develop the bricks and
everything.
But yeah, I mean, again, it hasto do with building, building
blocks, right?
Building, building, building.
So if you're always losing or ifyou're always not knowing, not
(24:05):
being able to trust, yourtechnique or whatever, and then
you can't allow space in yourhead for your intuition, then
you're going to be a jumble andyou can't do it.
SPEAKER_00 (24:18):
And your opponent will see that.
If they're a good player,they'll read that about you
before you even start playingand play to that.
SPEAKER_01 (24:25):
Yes.
In the warm-up, that's where yousee, right?
I mean...
And the funny thing is that whenpeople at this level are
playing, there would be manytimes where you won't notice
until 45 minutes into the match,oh, the person's left-handed.
I've done that myself.
Guilty.
And why is that?
Because you're not looking out.
(24:47):
You're so focused on what'sgoing on in your head, which is,
you know, filled with too much,too much, too much, that you
can't notice that the person islefty.
Right.
I mean, that's the kind.
And that's you're not the onlyone.
I mean, that's what happens allthe time.
Oh, I didn't know.
I'm like, how could you not knowthe minute the person walks on
the court?
She's got the racket in her lefthand because I didn't look.
(25:10):
Right.
I didn't look because I was Iwas so here.
Right.
That's too much.
So and then there's no, youknow, really what you're hoping
for in all tennis matches isheightened flow.
And if you've ever had that.
That's what you want torecreate, heightened flow.
(25:30):
But flow does not happen whenthe world is a jumble, as we
know now with what's going on inthe world.
Right?
Yes.
So, I mean, yeah.
So, you know, I mean, the wayit's going now is our president
is throwing a million thingsagainst the wall and we're stuck
in which one do we focus on andwe don't know where to go and
(25:52):
all this kind of stuff.
And so you just, you get, whatdoes it do to you?
It shuts you down.
And you feel ineffective.
You feel powerless.
That happens in sport.
But you do in sport, unlike inpolitics, in sport, you can work
to get rid of that.
You can work to calm the noise.
(26:13):
You can work to avoid thediscomfort.
You can work to put yourself ina place where you can float.
SPEAKER_00 (26:22):
and function even.
Like sometimes it's soparalyzing when you realize all
that's going on in the world andsort of how do you go back to,
well, this is what I cancontrol.
SPEAKER_01 (26:33):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (27:03):
visualization or kind of a rehearsal before you
play to sort of say, I am goingto hit it there and then I'm
going to hit it there.
SPEAKER_01 (27:13):
So before I serve, when I'm about ready to serve,
I'm looking where I'm going togo.
So when I'm going to serve andstart at the point, that's what
I do.
Or if I'm going to receiveserve, that's what I do.
I visualize where the ball isgoing to go, whether it comes to
my forehand or my backhand, I'mvisualizing.
After that, I can't because Idon't have that time and I can't
(27:35):
control the next ball that'scoming to me.
When I'm at a tournament,however, and I look at the draw
and everything, I don't spend alot of time, but I can visualize
the matches of people that arein front of me because mostly I
know who they are.
I do visualize playing them.
I don't think about playingthem.
I visualize playing them becausein a lot of cases, I have played
(27:58):
them before and I know how thematches flow.
I know how they flow.
And I'm lucky enough to win alot of those.
And so I have to remember whatthat, I don't remember what it
felt like.
I remember what it looked like,what it looked like.
So I remember it in the head ofthat was me hitting the ball.
(28:19):
That was her hitting the ball.
And that's how it ended up well.
So visualization is reallyimportant.
And I will also say that Yearsago, years and years ago, Billie
Jean once said to me, she had adouble knee replacement surgery,
two knees at one time.
SPEAKER_00 (28:36):
My goodness.
SPEAKER_01 (28:37):
Right, it was pretty hard.
And she took the time to healand she would sit on her bed
every day for 45 minutes with atennis ball, a tennis ball in
front of her on the bed and justlook at the tennis ball.
And she said, I realized howlittle when I play, I actually
(28:57):
look at the tennis ball.
She said, I really looked at it.
What did the seams look like?
What does the felt look like?
I turned it and I felt it.
And she said it was amazing tome.
And that's also a big deal.
SPEAKER_00 (29:10):
That's such a curious thing to do, but it
makes so much sense becauseyou're right.
At the moment, although when yousay when you're really in the
flow, the ball is as big as atennis ball.
I mean, as big as a beach ball.
Yeah.
or baseball, because you canreally see it and feel it and
know how it's traveling.
But for her to just sort of lookat this stationary ball and take
(29:34):
a moment with that, like, I feellike that's such a powerful
thing to connect with justyourself and where you're at
sort of, you know, during herhealing process, but also where
she was at in her career, in herlife and where she was with her
tennis.
How, wow.
Right.
So we're going to hop on to adifferent scenario here, dealing
(29:56):
with or speaking aboutovercoming doubt and times of
uncertainty.
You are known as a pioneer,Judy, in women's athletics.
And not only for your skills,obviously, but also for being
the first person to sue a majoruniversity for sex
(30:16):
discrimination online.
Under Title.
And I'm curious, first of all,what led you to make this
decision?
Because this would, I imagine,bring up feelings of
trepidation, maybe pressure orconcern about your career at the
time.
Could you bring us back to thatmoment and sort of what was
(30:37):
going through
SPEAKER_02 (30:38):
your
SPEAKER_00 (30:39):
mind?
SPEAKER_01 (30:40):
First of all, I think you have to remember that
I was fairly young.
I was probably...
mid-20s, maybe 26, somethinglike that.
I had been living in LosAngeles, graduated from the
University of SouthernCalifornia, and I got a phone
call from the secretary to thepresident of Yale University.
(31:04):
He called me, and he had knownme since I was a little girl.
I grew up on the East Coast.
And he called me and said, wouldyou like to come back and be the
women's tennis coach here?
And I had just played pro tennisfor a year and I found it to be
very lonely and I was nevergoing to be good enough.
I knew that.
I had played Wimbledon and thatwas my goal and it was like,
(31:26):
okay, I'm done.
And so, but anyway, I neverwanted to be a tennis coach.
I said, no, thank you.
Okay.
He called me back a week later.
He said, we only had women atYale for, I don't know, it was
three years or something likethat.
Two years.
We are going to create aposition for you, if you take
(31:48):
it.
It's called Coordinator ofWomen's Athletics.
It's an administrative position.
You will report to the Directorof Athletics, and also you'll be
the women's tennis coach.
Okay, so for me, growing up onthe East Coast, it was returning
home.
Yale, obviously, big dealposition for someone who's
(32:10):
young.
SPEAKER_03 (32:10):
Sure.
SPEAKER_01 (32:11):
And it was an administrative position.
And so I thought, okay, now Iwould like to do that.
So I went back.
The first year I was there, Iwas, again, I had just come off
the pro tour.
So I just wasn't used to what Isaw there, which was there were
no varsity sports at Yale.
I mean, it was ridiculous.
I had to recruit for sevensports.
(32:32):
They were sports.
But I did the recruiting forlacrosse.
I did the recruiting for fieldhockey.
I mean, I don't know how to dothat.
I also was privy to the budgets.
which were ridiculous fortennis.
I mean, my salary was as thewomen's tennis coach was$10,000
less than the men's tenniscoach.
And I was also the coordinatorof women's athletics and I was
(32:53):
paid 10.
Wow.
There were four indoor courts.
The women got one, the men gotthree.
There were no athletic trainersfor women.
They had to, if men came intothe athletic training room, they
just cut in front of the women.
So the women would invariably belate to practice because all the
men would come in ahead of themand push them out of the way.
Okay.
(33:13):
I mean, the facilities wereterrible.
It was, it went on and on and onand on.
And I, I thought, and I willtell you the story going back.
When I was in LA, one time I wasplaying tennis at the LA tennis
club.
There are 24 courts there.
I was playing on a certain courtwith a woman who had won
Wimbledon, a woman who wasnumber one in the United States,
(33:35):
and my doubles partner.
Four men, older men, walked outon the court that we were
playing on, even though therewere 23 open courts.
They walked out to our court,and they said, we want this
court.
Wow.
And we had to pack up and leave.
Okay.
And I never forgot that, not forme, but for this woman, Louise
Brough, who was an ex-Wimbledonchampion.
(33:56):
I thought this is embarrassingand demeaning, et cetera.
So then when I got to Yale andthis kind of thing was going on,
I thought I have a big fairnessstreak and I'm going to do
something about it.
So I contacted the EEOC whosaid, indeed, you have a case.
I found a lawyer who would takethis on a contingency because I
had no money.
I'm young and everything.
UNKNOWN (34:17):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (34:17):
And they got involved and we sued Yale, okay?
That's big.
So I'm coming home from work oneday and I pick up the New Haven
Register, which is the localnewspaper, and my picture is
plastered on the front of thepaper.
The New York Times called me.
ABC, Wide World of Sports calledme.
(34:40):
My parents stopped speaking tome for about a year.
Because when you grow up like Idid, you do not sue Yale
University, right?
I was taken to the localrestaurant, Maury's Restaurant
at Yale, which used to be menonly.
And by the man who hired me, heoffered me$15,000 to go away.
(35:02):
You're kidding.
Yeah.
Wow.
And I said no, because I wasn'tsuing for myself.
I mean, he didn't get it.
I was suing for all of women'ssports, right?
All of women's sports.
So.
It was scary.
I was scared.
None of this was great.
My parents are not speaking tome.
It's all over the news.
It's all over everything.
Summer comes and I get a letterfrom Yale University saying,
(35:24):
we've restructured, of course.
We've restructured.
Your position no longer isavailable.
And now you're going to becomeassistant director of media
relations.
Now, I've never written a pressrelease in my life.
I don't know what I'm doing.
We're going to change youroffice from over here to this
big building in the gym to RayTompkins house, which is
(35:47):
adjacent to the gym.
And my office was in the coffeeroom with the coffee machine.
So all of the coaches would comein and they're copying and
every, you know, it was amadhouse.
It was a teeny, it was like acloset.
I mean, that's where my officewas.
And so I knew I had to leave,right?
I mean, there was no chance Ineeded to stay at Yale.
And Then I got another job.
(36:10):
I got a job working forColgate-Palmolive, a subsidiary
of Colgate-Palmolive calledDancroft Sporting Goods.
And when I left, I had, youknow, again, Yale lawyers.
I had to go get deposition afterdeposition after deposition.
I lived in Rhode Island inProvidence, and I had to keep
going back to New Haven to thefancy...
Yale law offices.
(36:30):
But now I have a very thickthing like this, which is
depositions, and it says JudyDixon versus Yale University,
and I have that to hold on to.
Wow.
My lawyer was doing the best hecould, but who knows?
And then a week before, so threeyears go by, and a week before
we were supposed to go to court,Yale decided to settle.
(36:54):
And in settling...
they made me sign something thatsaid I would not go to the press
for five years.
That's fine.
That was fine.
But the things that come out ofit are that when I took the
UMass team back and we playedthe Yale women's team, the Yale
coach at the time years latersaid to the Yale women, because
of you, because of you, becauseof her, we now have what we
(37:18):
have, right?
Which was quite amazing.
And also if you, I mean, thiswas always amazing to me.
If you Wikipedia my name, whatcomes up is Pioneer in Women's
Sports, which I never thought Iwas a Pioneer in Women's Sports.
What I thought I was, was ayoung woman hating the
unfairness of it all, right?
(37:38):
I mean, that was my big thing.
And I think that when you Whenyou create major change, you
don't do it because you'recreating major change.
You do it because you know it'sthe right thing to do.
And so that's sort of how thathappened.
And I'll tell you one otherstory, which is amazing.
I was at Yale.
They had four tennis courts.
(37:58):
The women had one.
The men had three.
And one day I decided we weregoing to take two.
We were just going to take two.
So I said to the women, I'mgoing to be on the front court.
I'm going to be feeding you.
tennis balls.
You're going to be hittingtennis balls.
Something's going to happen.
Don't move.
Don't blink.
Just keep doing what you'redoing.
So I'm hitting tennis balls.
The male tennis coach sends overfour men from the men's team and
(38:22):
he tells them to serve.
Now, if they serve, they'regoing to hit me in the head.
They're going to hit me in theback and serve is going to be
quite hard.
And so I just stood there and Ikept feeding and the women were
like, you know, like taking adeep breath.
I said, no, just keep hittingit.
And then the Yale tennis coachyells, I said, serve to the men
because they weren't, they werestanding there.
And the captain of the men'steam said to him, we're
(38:46):
absolutely not going to do that.
And they walked off the court,right?
Wow.
Which was, thank goodness thathappened, right?
There I thought, oh, there is amale advocate that's coming
through, right?
So there was a lot of pressureon me But if you are, in my
case, if you are knowing that,you know, I don't like it when
(39:09):
people aren't treated fairly.
I don't like it when womenaren't treated fairly.
I don't like it when animals arenot treated fairly, but it's
enough to make you stand up.
And you don't, and again, Ididn't stand up because I
thought, oh, this is important.
I stood up because I know it wasthe right thing to do.
SPEAKER_00 (39:25):
Well, I'm thankful, and I'm sure listeners who,
especially women players, arethankful for the legacy that you
really created.
Like, it changed the game.
So I will have to say, yes, youwere a pioneer, whether you knew
it or not at the time, butobviously you felt really
compelled to act.
And I'd have to say not everyonewould have the same sort of
(39:49):
stance and confidence enough tofeel like they could do
something about it.
And, you know, what a powerfultestament.
to that that was in you at thetime.
And I can only imagine howvulnerable you felt sort of
doing that because that's a bit,you know, it's like the giant
and you won.
Like that was amazing.
(40:10):
That was, you know, words can'treally describe it, but you've
created a legacy.
So thank you for that.
Thank you for that.
That's true inspiration.
So As we wind down here, I justwant to know, aside from wanting
to win, aside from wanting tocontinue just to be physically
active, what keeps you motivatedin this day and age?
SPEAKER_01 (40:33):
So I ask myself that every six months, because now
that I'm older and my body isdoing things that I'm not so
pleased with, I have moreinjuries, et cetera.
I also have an unbelievableconnection to the other women
that are playing.
I play tennis because I loveplaying tennis.
(40:55):
I compete because I lovecompeting.
If I started playing poorly, Iwould probably not compete
anymore because I just wouldn'thave that resilience that I
would need to keep doing that.
But what I'm driven to do is tokeep the connection with people
that live not only in the UnitedStates, but around the world.
So when I'm pick to play worldteams and I go to Croatia or I
(41:18):
go to Turkey or I go toMallorca, I see people that have
been my friends for years fromSpain or from Africa or
whatever.
I feel how unbelievable thissport is.
Stepping back from competitionwould be a great loss at this
point, a loss of connection.
SPEAKER_00 (41:36):
And tennis is really a social sport.
Like when you think about it,maybe not on the court.
Yes.
because you're not supposed to,it's a different connection on
the court, but there is a sortof camaraderie.
There is this support.
There is this sort of bringingup other people as they're
playing and celebrating theirwins and being there for their
losses.
(41:56):
There's something about thatthat carries over into just your
relationships in life.
And there's something quitenourishing and powerful about
those connections.
So Judy, what's next for you?
Is there anything excitingcoming up on the horizon?
SPEAKER_01 (42:13):
Yes.
Well, okay.
Besides, you know, Wisconsin isnot too exciting.
But in October, I will becaptain of the Women's 75 team
that will be playing in a placecalled Bol, B-O-L, Croatia.
Wow.
It's an island off the coast ofCroatia.
And the USTA sends...
the top four women in the UnitedStates in my age group, of which
(42:36):
I am.
And so we'll go to Croatia for10 days and play against other
countries.
We probably play against 15other women's teams.
And that's the next big thingfor me.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (42:49):
That's such an honor and such a beautiful way to
showcase your skills and workingwith people and also being a
player.
Because I've seen you, I've seenpictures of you, and I know how
can people stay connected withwhat's going on with you?
Because I know you have a blogand a website.
You can go onto
SPEAKER_01 (43:09):
Judy Dixon Tennis and you can see that I do a blog
about the tournament.
In fact, I'll do one this weekabout a tournament I just played
and also I do every once in awhile I'll also do an
instructional piece which I'mhappy to do and actually
interestingly enough the personthat does all this for me Ruth
Critcher she's the person thatsuggests different things she'll
(43:31):
say I think we need to talkabout women poaching or women
serving under stress or how toplay mixed doubles, whatever.
She sends this out and I golike, oh, I could write
something about that.
So it's not often that I come upwith the ideas myself, but she
does that.
I do the blog because that'sbeen my experience, but she does
the, oh, let's do something onthis.
(43:51):
And I like doing that.
I like it.
So I think that that's That'show they can get in touch with
me for sure.
SPEAKER_00 (43:56):
Well, I appreciate reading those.
And I've sort of implementedsome of those techniques as well
when I do get a chance to playtennis.
Your life, Judy, is such atestament on how to believe in
yourself and your ability tomaintain a centered approach.
It's really helped you performunder pressure in uncertain
(44:18):
conditions.
But mostly it's your ability toplay tennis at such a high level
is incredible.
been such a journey for you andfor the players you interact
with the community you interactwith it's such an inspiring
thing to watch and you'vetouched so many including myself
thank you so I highly appreciateour conversation today and I
(44:41):
know listeners will find so manywisdom nuggets as I say in our
conversation so thank you againJudy for being on the podcast
and I wish you well thank you onyour upcoming tour and Yeah, and
I'll see you at the courts.
Yeah, definitely.
Great.
Take care.
Thank you.
(45:02):
Thanks so much for tuning intoday.
I'm so glad you spent this timewith me.
If something in this episoderesonated, feel free to share it
or pass it along to someone whomight need that little spark.
I'd also love to hear what cameup for you.
Send me a message or drop acomment on Instagram at
ToHumIsHuman.
(45:23):
Until next time, keep humming.
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