May 2, 2025 • 50 mins
What does purpose sound like?
Meet Michi Wiancko—an accomplished violinist and Juilliard graduate, an imaginative composer, devoted educator, and Artistic Director at the groundbreaking Antenna Cloud Farm. In this inspiring episode, Michi shares her journey from concerto debuts with the LA and NY Philharmonics to creating music for Carnegie Hall’s Ensemble Connect and the Orpheus Chamber Orchestra, among others. She shares how intuition, creativity, and community have shaped her evolving path—and why purpose isn’t something we find once, but a hum we return to again and again.
Find me on Instagram @ToHumisHuman and www.sonorouslight.com
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:06):
Hello friends, it's me, Donna Bell, your host of
another episode of To Hum isHuman, the podcast where we
explore the transformative powerof tuning into our intuition to
express our passionate purpose.
In today's episode, The Sound ofPurpose, How to Discover Your
(00:27):
True Calling, we delve into whatit means to attune to your inner
voice and how collectivecreation and alternative
approaches to education may openthe door to greater artistic
freedom.
Whether you're a musician, aseeker, or someone simply
longing to live more alignedwith your truth, this
(00:48):
conversation is an invitation tolisten inward.
I am so thrilled to introduce mynext guest.
Michi Rianco is a multifaceted,imaginative composer, violinist,
educator, and collaborator whosework bridges creative
exploration, communityresilience, and social change.
(01:10):
A Juilliard graduate, anacclaimed soloist, she has
performed with the LA and NewYork Philharmonics and toured
with Silk Road and RhiannonGiddens.
Missions include works forCarnegie Hall's Ensemble
Connect, Orpheus ChamberOrchestra, the Seattle and
Boston Chamber Music Societies.
(01:33):
Michi is also the artisticdirector of Antenna Cloud Farm,
a Western Massachusetts-basedmusic festival, artist retreat,
and educational initiative.
There, she also leads theExperimental Institute, a
tuition-free youth summerintensive focused on creativity,
mental and deinstitutionalizedlearning.
(01:56):
Welcome, Michi.
Thank you so much.
I'm happy to be here.
It's an honor to have you.
Michi, your work spans so manyworlds, performance,
composition, teaching, socialimpact.
When did you first begin tosense that music would lead the
way for you?
SPEAKER_00 (02:17):
I started my musical journey from a very young age
with the violin, but I did havevery, very musical parents.
I started playing the violinaround the age of three and kept
at it through thick and thin asa youth.
And then I think in high school,I realized I wanted to pursue
(02:39):
music professionally.
At that time, Having takenprivate lessons and sort of come
up in the classical pedagogicalculture, even though I listened
to lots and lots ofnon-classical music, it felt
like there were only a fewoptions for a violinist who
(02:59):
wanted to become a professional.
You could go for that elusivedream of being a soloist.
You could try to join anorchestra.
You could maybe start a chamberensemble.
You could teach.
I never could have imaginedwhere I ended up now.
And I think it was really ajourney of listening to little
(03:22):
voices kind of tugging at mealong the way.
So I went to the Cleveland, Idid my undergraduate degree at
the Cleveland Institute of Musicand was loving what I was doing.
But I just had this feeling oflike, there's some creative
thing happening.
I want to do with music.
I don't know what it is.
I have no idea what thisfeeling, where it's coming from,
(03:45):
what it means.
All I know is that that feelingjust will not, it will not go
away.
There's some kind of music Iwant to be making that I'm not
making, and I don't know what itis.
So I, and it kind of botheredme, you know, it made me feel
like self-doubt, like, am I inthe wrong place?
Am I doing the wrong thing?
Am I impatient?
(04:06):
All this stuff.
So I started improvising.
I started exploring differentways.
I sat in with a band or two.
I kind of like justexperimented.
And that led me to reallystarting to expand my focus
outside of the classical realm.
And that's just an example, Ithink, of how my life and my
(04:29):
career has been formed.
I would say like the shortversion would be that whenever I
felt that voice or some feelingtugging at me, no matter how
small, I learned to really tryto listen to it.
I learned to recognize it assome kind of thing that was
trying to get my attention.
(04:50):
I learned to pay attention toit.
I learned to like carve outintentional time and energy to
really try to get what is at thebottom of this voice, you know?
Like, am I just hungry or?
Well,
SPEAKER_01 (05:07):
it's funny because you're speaking about these
sensations.
And when I think about music andhow that vibration that you're
producing through an instrument,through your voice, through
other means of making sound, itsort of fills the space, but it
also resonates within your body.
And I wondered as you werecomposing or as you were playing
(05:32):
music, Do you tune into how thatsort of resonates within your
body and directs you?
SPEAKER_00 (05:41):
Yeah, definitely.
I think I wasn't focused on thator I wasn't naming that or
acknowledging it until later inlife.
You know, I think as a kid, as ateenager, as a young adult, I
sort of took that all forgranted.
And it wasn't until...
(06:01):
I don't know, maybe my 30s oreven 40s that I started to
really name it.
I think the more teaching I doas well, and the more I realize
like if we are not fullyembodied while we do this, if we
are not listening to ourselveson just a physical level, then
(06:21):
we are not properly grounded.
to do any of this, you know,any, anything technical, any of
this like difficult passage workwith the left hand or whatever,
you know, young artists or youngperformers are trying to
accomplish with theirinstruments.
You have to be fully embodied.
Yeah.
And so I think that this is arelatively new endeavor for me
(06:44):
or, or area of exploration thatthe, the way that sound works,
It resonates in our bodies andthe benefit that it has for our
bodies, especially in recentyears, realizing that anybody
who's performing, whether theylike it or not, are kind of in
the business of healing, kind ofin the business of physical
(07:07):
therapy, sound therapy.
SPEAKER_01 (07:09):
Yes.
As a sound therapy practitionermyself and understanding how
sound frequencies work inhealing sort of entrainment and
resonance, there's somethingobviously to that because people
have shown that it does in facthave palpable results within the
body.
But I'd love to go back to howyou called your inspiration for
(07:35):
when you did compose music?
Where did your inspiration comefrom?
SPEAKER_00 (07:42):
So there is a tradition of, you know, like the
Baroque era of classical musichad a lot of performers who were
also composers, performers whowould also improvise on the
spot.
And that was really common.
And I think it has now had aresurgence.
(08:04):
It's more now more common, youknow, in the classical world or
the violin performance world forperformers to play a little solo
that they've written orimprovise a little a section,
but there was a period of timethere where it was pretty
strict.
pretty structured.
The idea of a classical musicimprovising would just melt some
(08:24):
people's faces off.
It caused a lot of deep anxietybecause everybody's trained to
just try to execute what's onthe page as perfectly as
possible and to uphold theseold, old Eurocentric traditions
and cultures just kind ofmindlessly in some cases without
really thinking about it.
(08:44):
And so it was that trying tobreak out of those what felt to
me like confined spaces.
So I think starting toimprovise, not within any kind
of genre, but actually like whatkind of noises can I make on the
instrument?
What happens if I go and collecta bunch of twigs and pebbles and
tap them on the bridge or thescroll or how can I free this
(09:09):
whole thing up?
And so that's what sort ofopened up a big creative door
for me, which eventually led tocomposition.
with the final sort of push thatI needed coming from a friend
who asked me to write her apiece.
(09:29):
I was like, what now?
You want me to what?
I'm like, me?
Are you sure?
She was like, yeah, oh my gosh.
I heard the stuff that you'redoing with your violin.
I heard what you're doing whenyou play with bands.
Can you write me a piece?
So I did.
And that sort of was, thatstarted it all.
Sometimes it just
SPEAKER_01 (09:48):
takes a little push from an outside influence to
kind of get you out of thatcomfort zone.
You're like, can I?
Yeah.
And of course, and you did.
So it was just a matter of, of,um, sort of attuning to that and
aligning to that.
And, you know, Michi, you'vecollaborated with an incredibly
diverse range of artists andgroups in various genres.
(10:13):
How has working with othersshaped and refined your
understanding of how you expressyourself?
SPEAKER_00 (10:20):
Yeah, I think working with others is where my
real passion lies.
There's so much commonalitybetween I think embodiment is
first and foremost, thatcommonality, knowing that
somebody else is also workingwith sound, you know, as their
(10:41):
medium and appreciating thosevibrations.
And I think musicians have a wayof really connecting.
Like we're so used to connectingwith each other without having
to use language, verballanguage.
It's just second nature.
So I think, yeah, collaboratingwith other musicians is, for
sure is just pure fun, usually.
(11:04):
I also love, I think,collaborating with
non-musicians, with visualartists, with filmmakers,
dancers, choreographers.
That's also been incredible justto see, just to learn about
other people's relationships totheir own practices, the ways in
(11:25):
which a filmmaker would describesomething musical that they want
you know they're going to uselike just a whole completely
different language than what howa musician would would talk
about it and i find that soincredibly fascinating yeah but
i think ultimately connectingwith others and exploring that
connection and then sharing thatconnection with an audience i
(11:49):
think is one of the mostimportant functions of art
SPEAKER_01 (11:54):
I'm absolutely with you there.
But I'm curious in terms of,say, when you're performing.
So there must be a verydifferent feeling when you're
performing as a soloist versusperforming collaboratively with
other artists.
Do you sort of tune into adifferent aspect of yourself or
(12:14):
is it sort of the same part?
SPEAKER_00 (12:17):
Yeah, I think I do tune into a different aspect.
It feels like I'm collaboratingwith myself, I suppose.
And it's changed verydramatically for me because for
a while I was playing the role,so to speak, of a violin soloist
for my career.
And I'm very fortunate to havebeen in that position, even
though ultimately I did not findit satisfying.
(12:39):
I found it lonely.
I found it like very, it's very,very, very high pressure.
It's very high stakes, highpressure.
Like you miss a note.
you miss a couple notes or youplay something slightly out of
tune and you're like, okay,that, that, that might've been
it.
You know, that might be mycareer.
Like that's that kind ofpressure.
And I was, I was meeting thosechallenges for a really long
(13:03):
time.
And then I discovered like, wow,this is actually beginning, even
though I love the repertoire, Ilove the violin concertos.
I loved playing with symphonies,but something was a miss for
sure.
Because it was, I was sostressed out all the time.
about it, that it was reallyblocking me physically from
(13:23):
being able to like gain thebenefits of the sound, you know,
and of the music making.
But what I've, so in sort of atherapeutic effort to be able to
play solo violin without thatkind of, you know, challenge,
that level of challenge andpressure attached to it, I
(13:45):
started Using effects pedals andusing an electric violin or at
least plugging in an acousticviolin electrically and putting
on solo shows where I combinepre-written material that I've
made for myself with just pureimprovisation that stems from
the energy I'm feeling in theroom.
(14:05):
I haven't done it in a littlewhile, but it's definitely on
my, it's percolating that thatis something that I would like
to do more.
more so when i'm doing that thatthat is i've discovered one of
my happy places where i feel themost free especially if there's
no written music in front of methen it just feels like kind of
(14:27):
pure communing with other people
SPEAKER_01 (14:30):
yeah and you're in essence having a concert with
yourself like sort of yourmultidimensional selves when
you're playing the layering.
I can only imagine the depth inthat performance, even though
there's only one you on thestage.
SPEAKER_00 (14:44):
Right.
Yeah.
And I think that the, for me,you know, playing with time,
utilizing silence, which I'm abig fan of as a musician, you
know, like are the rests inbetween the notes are just as
important as the notesthemselves.
I tell my students thatconstantly.
So to kind of be able to Yeah,to shift time and to have that
(15:08):
happen in a collective spacewith other people, I think can
be really, I've had some prettypowerful and emotional
experiences, just feeling it'salmost, it almost feels
interactive.
Even though the audience is justsitting there watching, I can
feel energy happening that makesit feel like this is a
definitely an interactivesituation.
(15:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:30):
Well, and I just love how you're sort of creating
these spaces.
And I would love to talk abouthow you were pulled to create
the antenna cloud farm.
SPEAKER_00 (15:41):
Yeah.
This idea came to me randomlywhile I was pumping gas at a gas
station.
I remember the exact moment.
I think the It was done.
The tank was done filling and Ijust kept standing there.
My husband was like, are youokay?
SPEAKER_01 (16:02):
I'm getting a download.
SPEAKER_00 (16:03):
What's that?
I'm getting a download.
Hold on.
I'm not available to talk rightnow.
We were kind of in a transitionof moving up here gradually.
kind of inching our way up toFranklin County from Brooklyn.
Wow.
Yeah.
(16:24):
Where we had lived for a longtime.
My husband's from New York.
And I really wanted to leave thecity.
We wanted to come toMassachusetts.
We were really drawn to thispart of the state, just
gorgeousness and really coolstuff happening, really cool
arts, really cool culturalstuff, farming, agricultural
stuff, which we found reallyamazing.
(16:45):
And I was fearful of leaving myartistic community in New York.
I was fearful of feeling lonely,of feeling isolated as an
artist.
So I thought, well, what if wefound a space that we could
bring people to?
And we can bring our friends to,or our colleagues to, to enjoy
(17:07):
the beauty of WesternMassachusetts, have a retreat
from the city, and have like anartistic retreat.
And what if we stuck a concertonto that?
And then what if we sent thosemusicians into like local
schools to hang out with themusic class or, you know, give a
performance at the school?
(17:29):
So it just kept growing.
It actually grew quite fast.
I say it grew incrementally, butby year two, I was giving like
10, you know, concerts everyother weekend for like three,
four months straight.
It was crazy.
And yeah, it's just, It's alabor of love.
It's now grown into somethingwhere we have, you know, it's
not just our friends.
It's a combination of artiststhat come from near and far,
(17:52):
hyper-local or sometimesinternational, and artists who
are really doing somethingpowerful and interesting and
innovative and different withtheir practice, with their
instruments, with their mediums.
And yeah, it's a, it's a laborof love.
It's a work in progress.
And I think it's always going tobe, I think it's always
(18:14):
shifting.
And that's become something I'm,I'm pretty proud of that is just
constantly in evolution andconstantly in a state of growth
and responsiveness to the worldand to artists needs to our
local communities needs.
So we're quite a robustpartnership organization, lots
(18:36):
of, various types of programsnow that are stemming from
Antenna Cloud Farm and lots ofdifferent kinds of engagement.
Could
SPEAKER_01 (18:45):
you tell our listeners just briefly what
Antenna Cloud Farm is?
First of all, I want to knowwhere the name came from because
it's
SPEAKER_00 (18:53):
just
SPEAKER_01 (18:53):
so compelling.
I'm like, oh, I'm
SPEAKER_00 (18:54):
so curious already.
I don't even know what it is.
Well, we're located on a hill infor any geologists out there,
it's the Drumlin, which is ahill that's, you know, the
result of some big glacialmovements.
But we, it's a former dairy farmand we have, we're lucky to have
(19:18):
this gorgeous view of thevalley.
And I think I kind of dreamt upthe word antenna because a lot
of our, I think when people,especially our New York friends,
when they're like, you're goingto move where?
New Yorkers are just, most ofthem can't fathom ever living
(19:41):
anywhere other than New York.
It's tough to leave.
It's a city that very much drawsyou in.
And we still love it.
New Yorkers don't get mad at me.
But they were like, oh, you'rekind of going, you're going to
move somewhere.
to the middle of nowhere toraise a family and just kind of,
you know, we're like, actually,we're coming out here to be even
more expansive and to be moreoutward facing.
(20:03):
It's not a retirement plan.
You know, this is a veryintentional, you know, community
facing.
And so I have this old black andwhite photograph of a person
who's got huge headphones on andis holding a little satellite
dish.
I think it's a it's amicrophone.
It's like from the 60s orsomething, 50s.
(20:25):
And the person is, I believe, anornithologist or like a bird, is
listening to birds and capturingthose sounds.
And it's a really coolphotograph of this person just
sitting, you know, standing onthe edge of a hill, holding this
antenna out to the valley.
And so that's really where theword antenna came from, this
(20:46):
idea that the outward facing,community facing, expansive
antenna.
Receivers.
And then clouds, just because wefeel close to the clouds up
here.
And watching the patterns ofweather and clouds come in and
out is a big activity foranybody who's up here.
How big is it?
How big is your property?
(21:07):
We're on 100 acres.
UNKNOWN (21:09):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (21:10):
Yep.
With some of it wooded, some ofit open, some of it we're
putting into conservation.
A lot of it hosts a large flockof sheep.
from farmer friends who practiceregenerative and sustainable
agriculture locally here.
So it's been wonderful to learn,really inspiring.
(21:35):
And we're really grateful tohave learned so much about the
local agricultural culture hereas well.
And just so grateful to knowwhere our food comes from.
Yes.
Well,
SPEAKER_01 (21:48):
so, you know, aside from inviting, you know, highly
accomplished musicians, but youalso invite people of all levels
sort of within their practice,it sounds like.
SPEAKER_00 (22:18):
um nature of what we're doing you know we're very
much rooted in um bartering andmutual aid and very much like we
do not operate in atransactional purely
transactional way you know wetry to approach everything as
holistically as possible um Sobut the there's also an
(22:43):
institute, the ExperimentalInstitute.
I wanted to talk about that.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (22:49):
So there are lots of different.
One of my dreams is to have ayouth like a youth music camp
for, you know, junior high ageor high school age students.
musicians to come up here, butfor now,
SPEAKER_01 (23:04):
all these bubbling ideas, like it's just, they're
percolating, but you're there.
Like, it sounds like just fromthe get-go from the idea at the
gas station that you knew youwere onto something because it
just started growing all of asudden, it's almost like you
tapped into this sort of veinthat just became like this
(23:25):
living thing.
project and it sounds like it'sconstantly evolving.
Now, I'm curious because youwere mentioning sort of the
agricultural aspect of thelocation itself, but I know that
you do partner with severalorganizations and you deal with
sort of social, racial, food,and climate justice.
How did that become a part ofsort of the vision of Antenna
(23:48):
Cloud
SPEAKER_00 (23:48):
Farm?
I think I think we're first ofall so lucky to be in this part
of the country and this part ofthe state where it's rich with
people who are out there usingtheir mediums or their crafts or
(24:09):
their organizations or theirfocal points, whether it's
climate activists or farmers toreally kind of revolve their
work around community health,community wellness, community
resilience.
There's so much of thathappening from so many different
(24:31):
angles.
And so I think finding thatcommon ground with other
organizations and other entitiesoutside of music has been, first
of all, very gratifying justbecause I love to learn.
And so I've learned so muchabout other areas of work and of
life.
But it came about in justmeeting people and hanging out
(24:56):
and making connections, noticingwhen there's kinship and
following up with that, justbuilding community, which can
mean so many things.
And, you know, that's a termthat's used so much, but it
really is what it feels like.
Building a community, building anetwork, connecting.
That's not for just like, youknow, the sake of bettering or
(25:18):
furthering one's own career, buta network that is grown and
sustained in order to provideresilience, to be a place for us
all to find support when it'sneeded.
So
SPEAKER_01 (25:32):
valuable, especially around these times to be in sort
of a safe space.
You speak about community.
What have you witnessed sort ofon the individual level when
others step into a space like
SPEAKER_00 (25:46):
Antenna?
Yeah.
I don't want to brag.
SPEAKER_02 (25:55):
Please, please.
This is
SPEAKER_00 (25:56):
the place.
This is the place, yes.
I'll talk about the ExperimentalInstitute because we're entering
our fourth season this comingsummer.
And this is an early career...
activist performers or youngmusicians or composers or music
creators who are passionateabout using their art for the
(26:21):
betterment of society, really,is what that is.
People who arecommunity-oriented and who have
a vision, not just forthemselves and their own
careers, but a vision for theircommunities and So those are the
kinds of people that we areinviting into the cohort here.
(26:42):
And because of that, we thoughtafter year one, we thought it
was a fluke.
We were like, first of all, thatwas too good to be true.
It was as soon as everybodystepped foot here, the energy
was just electric.
And it was because we hadfashioned the application
process towards, you know,artists like the ones I just
(27:05):
described, as opposed to what'smore standard, which is how
impressive is your resume?
What are the big institutions?
Did you make your debut atCarnegie Hall?
This kind of stuff.
And so I think the moment,representation is very important
here.
So the faculty and the mentorsand the people who are helping
(27:28):
behind the scenes or whatever.
It's like a very, very, verydiverse group of individuals.
The cohort itself is verydiverse in literally every
single way, every singledefinition of that word.
And we tried very mindfully tocurate the time together in a
way that opened up the space,allowing for people to feel safe
(27:55):
and to feel vulnerable.
I think one way we did that wasby being vulnerable ourselves,
you know, as the so-calledfaculty group and to make it
really clear that beingvulnerable is a really powerful,
(28:18):
productive, generative space.
to be in if it's truly a safespace to do so.
So I think that all of that,plus this idea that when we're
all here, it is a sort ofcommunal living situation.
For the most part, we take turnsgetting ready for meals.
We take turns cleaning up.
(28:41):
Ideally, you know, on day threeor day four of a 10 day session,
we're trying to facilitateenough comfort and familiarity
and sort of individualempowerment that the young
artists or the, you know, thefellows understand.
start feeling empowered tocurate something themselves or
(29:02):
to run a class.
It can be experimental or runsome kind of embodiment session
or movement session or somethingthat they want to play around
with.
So yeah, it's quitemultifaceted.
And that's also something that'schanging and growing and
evolving each year as well.
SPEAKER_01 (29:22):
It sounds like such a rich environment.
For creativity, I think of thatmovie, the baseball movie,
they're like, if you build it,they will come.
You're literally on a farm andyou're creating this space.
But there's something I wouldlove to talk about because
you've embraced what you calldeinstitutionalized learning and
(29:44):
stepping outside the traditionalsystems to learn and grow.
Where did that come from and howdoes that show up in your
practice?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:56):
I'm always playing around with language too.
So yeah, so deinstitutionalizedlearning is something I've just,
I might change that.
I don't know.
I think I added that word tosome of our materials last year
because I was like, that is,that is, you know, one thing
that we are doing.
But that came from...
A lot of experiences that mycollaborators, my co-directors
(30:21):
of the Institute, and I have hada lot of experience in
institutions, in educationalinstitutions, institutional
settings, and still do.
And this comes from justhands-on, like lived experience
in music conservatories andinstitutions and seeing people
(30:43):
not to be totally negative aboutit, but seeing and kind of
studying really closely the waysin which those institutions were
not serving the students in away that was truly preparing
them for the real world tobecome like for what it means to
be a professional musician oreven what it means to just be an
(31:05):
awake, aware, engaged person inthe world.
There was a lot of There was alot of we were witnessing a lot
of like institutional failure, Ithink, and inability to be
nimble and responsive, inabilityto bust out of the rigorous, you
know, structures that are so oldand so outdated and outmoded.
(31:30):
But yet.
And everybody knows it.
But yet the job requires abuy-in of sorts, even if you're
going through the motions.
And so what I found so much wasjust a sort of almost just like
a disembodied culture in a lotof institutions.
And you have your wonderful gemsthat, you know, the teachers who
(31:51):
are just changing students'lives and doing amazing work
despite the structure, despitethe system that they have to be
a part of.
But my colleagues and I, wespent quite a few years, like
through the pandemic, we metweekly, talked for hours about
all of these kinds of things,about a lot of the issues that
(32:13):
we were seeing.
And a lot of those issues becamemore transparent during COVID,
right?
During the lockdown, a lot ofveils were lifted, a lot of
smoke sort of cleared.
And we were like, wow, it reallycame down to this, you know, and
it was eye opening, very, veryeducational.
And so in some ways, thisinstitute really came out of
(32:33):
that.
It really came out of like,okay, well, what are we going to
do?
What are we going to do aboutit?
What can we do?
As, you know, quite experiencedmusicians and educators now,
what can we build that wouldallow us to start to allow us to
build some kind of system orstructure from the ground up
(32:55):
rather than trying to go in andretrofit something that honestly
will not change.
It doesn't really work foreveryone.
It doesn't really work.
Yeah.
So- What can we generate to holdall these ideas?
And that's why we called it theExperimental Institute.
Some people think it's becausewe're playing experimental
music.
And they're not wrong.
(33:15):
Sometimes we are.
It's more like, can weexperiment with a new kind of
institution?
A new idea of what aninstitution could be.
SPEAKER_01 (33:27):
What does that look like?
So what is a typical week in theExperimental Institute?
SPEAKER_00 (33:32):
A typical week, well, everybody shows up in the
late afternoon and we have ahuge festive meal.
We tour the property, we talk,we sometimes get our instruments
out and we'll do some I callthem musical greetings.
You can grab your instrument.
You can grab a tin can.
(33:53):
We're going to go around in acircle and you can make any
noise, any sound that representsperhaps how you're feeling in
that moment.
It's very, very free and open.
So we do a lot of these initial,my colleagues and I kind of each
have a bunch of things that welike to do.
So we, we take turnsfacilitating sessions that start
(34:16):
generating some feelings ofopenness and allowing for people
to really start to get to knoweach other and to really start
to share deeply about what theydo, what they're into, why, why
they do what they do.
And then for the next few days,it's a very organized process.
(34:39):
very carefully curatedcurriculum that each year is a
little different.
There's just some ebb and flow,some give and take, just because
usually there's way more that wewant to do than we end up having
time to do because we're alsotrying to allow for rest.
(34:59):
Sometimes we all go on a grouphike through the woods or visit
the river, but it's acombination of discussion,
writing, writing prompts,journaling, playing, playing
music for each other, creatingmusic together, having workshop
(35:21):
sessions where we talk about theway that music is made, or we
talk about what each person isexperiencing in their schools or
their workplace, or whatever itmight be.
So there's a lot of therapyinvolved.
kind of sessions end up feelinglike therapy sharing a lot of
(35:41):
exploration a lot of physicalmovement stuff and then that
interspersed with a social thesocial aspect and also the
respect for alone time andrespect for solitude and quiet
and and sort of lettingeverybody's nervous systems
reset.
So we have pages and pages andpages where we just try to, you
(36:06):
know, we really try to strikethat balance throughout the
week.
SPEAKER_01 (36:11):
What I'm noticing is it is a very holistic approach
to how music is made, thecreation of the music, and sort
of what that means, what thatentails.
And it's sort of a living thing.
You are sort of bringing to formand expressing something within
(36:33):
yourself through an instrument,through sound, through your
voice, but also engaging in thelandscape.
So you're creating a soundscapewithin a landscape, but also in
your mind, which is your body,which is how you interact with
the world.
I think that's a very...
much needed, but right nowreally a unique approach to
(36:56):
learning.
SPEAKER_00 (36:56):
Yeah, I think it is unique.
And the more we're in it and themore we're building it, the more
it becomes normalized for us.
So then when I do a lot of sortof guest teaching or guest
coaching in different schoolsand institutions around the
country, I'm always kind ofsurprised like, oh, yeah, that's
right.
This is unusual.
(37:16):
And a lot of what we sometimesdon't It's just somebody sharing
something that they made that aprofessor or somebody from their
institution told them is not,quote, you know, how things are
done.
And then having a lot ofself-doubt about like, is this
(37:40):
okay, what I made and how I madeit?
It's different.
It's unusual.
And it hasn't really been donebefore.
Is this okay?
I'm being told it's not okay.
So then bring us into thepicture, you know, and we just
dive right into that idea.
And it's always because of thepeople who are coming here.
(38:00):
It's always a wonderful, amazingidea.
So we're very affirming.
And I think we provide eachother with that kind of support
and affirmation to be like, no,even like the fact this has
never been done is a good thing,you know, so follow that, follow
that instinct.
So yeah, there's a lot of that.
It's like a big support group,really.
Oh,
SPEAKER_01 (38:21):
my goodness.
And I can imagine afterattending this and participating
in this that what then theybring out into the world becomes
sort of a shift, perhaps, inthat paradigm and ways in which
they think about themselves andperhaps, you know, what they
choose to take in and what theychoose to sort of leave behind.
(38:43):
After
SPEAKER_00 (38:44):
year two...
I think that the moment Irealized really felt deeply how
powerful this was, because Ithink I wasn't allowing myself
to fully, I was like, this Ithink is a fluke, you know?
I think it was just happened tobe a magical thing.
The moment it dawned on me, themoment I really realized it, I
(39:09):
just immediately started crying,was when I began to see that
fellows who came here who are indifferent cohorts, different
years, we're now finding eachother out in the real world and
building things together ormeeting for the first time and
immediately feeling a sense ofconnection and closeness because
(39:31):
of coming from here and havingthis in common.
And they were telling me thesame, like the people who, the
fellows who have been here havegiven a lot of feedback that is
quite moving about the impactthat this has had in their
lives.
(39:51):
I just get
SPEAKER_01 (39:52):
chills about that.
I mean, it just shows reallythat the truest creativity is
one that inspires even morecreativity.
SPEAKER_00 (40:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (40:01):
And it just expands even further, far reaching.
So, you know, you're doingsomething, you know, you're onto
something and that's just puremagic.
And I feel like magic is made atthe antenna cloud farm.
But, you know, sometimes it'sunderstood that, you know, our
purpose is something that justwe find one And we hold on to it
(40:22):
forever.
But your journey seems to be oneof constant evolution.
How is your sense of purposeshifted or expanded over time?
SPEAKER_00 (40:33):
Oh, I love that question so much.
Because it really touches on, Imean, it's a weird, you know,
it's very personal.
It's a very personal thing toshare.
But I think it's reallyimportant.
Potentially, especially ifthere's, you know, younger
person listening to this askinga lot of similar questions.
(40:55):
I went for decades with, youknow, with this feeling that I
was not quite doing somethingright, or that I was failing to
stick with just the thing.
(41:20):
this little self-doubt, youknow?
I mean, I'm also a veryconfident person and, you know,
was very proud of what I wasdoing, but it was this, always
this tiny, tiny little voice waslike questioning.
Is it okay that you sort ofstarted, you know, exploring
non-classical realms?
Is it okay that you just playedwith this crazy hip hop band or
(41:44):
this country band or, you know,is it okay that now you're,
trying to compose music when youdidn't go to school for it.
And all these, all thesequestions of like, is, I don't
know if that's okay.
Like, I feel like I'm failing tostick with the one thing, you
know, I'm, am I just failing tofollow through the one thing
(42:05):
that I maybe was supposed to bedoing, which is be a violin
soloist.
And I see other friends whostuck other colleagues, other
people I went to music schoolwith who stuck with their thing
and And they're, you know,hugely successful doing awesome
stuff, but they stuck with theone thing.
And it was a couple of yearsago, I was talking to my
husband, Judd, who's also acomposer and musician.
(42:26):
And we were just talking aboutthis and he was like, but maybe
the exploration that you is justa regular part of your life is
the thing, you know, that theact of exploring is, And the act
of searching and the act ofresponding to, you know, the
(42:50):
energies and the voices, whetherthey're stemming from internally
or externally, that act ofcontinuously evolving and
growing, like maybe that is thething.
And that just shifted.
Something clicked, finally.
Something clicked.
And I no longer have that voice.
(43:13):
I have that voice in other areasmaybe, but, you know.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (43:18):
you know, we get all sorts of nudges, you know, and I
feel like you took the strongernudge and it felt very natural.
And obviously then it startedbecoming this other thing, which
is now feeling like it's justgrowing and expanding.
And, you know, you're on theright track when something feels
so good within you.
And then who it affects alsofeels this sort of beautiful
(43:42):
thing.
nudge to keep creating.
If there's a listener out there,sort of either a young listener
who's wanting to maybe Iwouldn't say entertain.
So someone listening right nowwho feels the quiet hum of
something inside them but hasn'tyet found the courage to express
(44:06):
it, what would you offer them?
SPEAKER_00 (44:09):
I would encourage them to to not bury it, to not
try to let it go, um, to trydifferent ways of listening to
it, perhaps, you know, go for awalk in a beautiful place, move,
move your body, go visitsomeplace you haven't been
before.
Bring a journal, write about it,try to release it some way, try
(44:33):
to name it, um, try to know whatit is.
Um, trial and error is sometimespart of it.
Sometimes you try a thing andyou're like, you know what, that
wasn't actually it.
And that's okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I think this idea that we,the idea of trusting ourselves
(44:57):
and respecting how we feelpersonally about, about things,
I think that's hard to teach.
And I think it's not somethingthat, Society does well for our
younger people.
I think we have to figure outhow to build that for ourselves.
(45:19):
How do we trust ourselves?
How do we listen to our ownvoices?
How do we let our own internalvoices be louder than any
external voices that might beplanting seeds of doubt or seeds
of fear?
How do we stay true toourselves?
(45:40):
Those are really toughquestions.
And I think that my advice wouldbe to not just search for the
answers, but just to keep askingthe question.
I think if the questions can benormalized in life, just keep
asking the questions and becomfortable being in a state of
(46:03):
asking questions.
And let that be the normal.
Answers do start to emerge hereand there, but maybe the goal is
not to find answers to everysingle question.
Maybe the goal is to reallyexplore the questions.
SPEAKER_01 (46:20):
I love that.
That's so beautiful and powerfuland really giving yourself
permission to be receptive.
to things that you may not haveconsidered in your path.
What's in the future for you?
What's next coming up thatyou're really excited about?
SPEAKER_00 (46:38):
I specifically, I would like, I have sort of a
goal of becoming more connectedto my violin.
Meaning playing some more shows.
I haven't played a show in awhile.
Developing a solo set.
(47:00):
Perhaps recording a new album.
All of this I've had to put onthe back burner for a few years.
Because I'm lucky enough to becommissioned by other people to
write music.
But I'm trying so, so, so hardto carve out space.
A space that I would considerjust my ultimate home.
(47:20):
space of creative freedom whichwould be like not a commission
just something i'm creating justfor the sake of creating it so
that's what i'm hoping is in mypersonal future for my own my
own stuff um and for acf there'sbeen so much growth um we're
slowly expanding our summerfestival so that there's also
(47:42):
engagements that happen duringthe school year We've formed a
lot of new partnerships withlocal schools, local public
schools and music programs.
And also we're hosting retreatsfor non-public facing retreats
for artists who are working onsome really incredible projects.
(48:05):
So there's never a dull moment.
There's never not anything goingon.
SPEAKER_01 (48:11):
Yeah.
Right.
Well, how do folks connect withyou and what you're doing?
Are there particular places youwant them to go to find
SPEAKER_00 (48:19):
out more?
Yeah.
I mean, they could visitantennacloudfarm.com.
I would highly recommend signingup for our newsletter, which I'm
very proud of.
I think it's really beautiful.
It's very, very thoughtfully andlovingly put together in our
community.
Non-summer season, it goes outmaybe once a month, once every
(48:41):
couple months, and then duringthe summer more frequently when
things are starting to happen.
Yeah, but I would recommendchecking out our newsletter.
And
SPEAKER_01 (48:51):
can they check you out personally?
Is there a site where they cango to see what you do?
SPEAKER_00 (48:56):
They can go to michiwianco.com.
Mm-hmm.
Or they can find me onInstagram, which is where I'm
more likely to have updatedevents and concerts.
These days, it's a lot ofconcerts that are featuring
works that I've written.
But my website has my works liston it, ways to purchase my music
(49:20):
that I've written, some funvideos, things like that.
Oh, my gosh.
SPEAKER_01 (49:25):
Michi Wianco, thank you so much for sharing your
wisdom, your insight, yourvulnerability.
I mean, I feel like that wassuch a generous way in which
you've told your story today.
And, you know, you're basicallyshowing us that the purpose
isn't the destination.
It's a resonance we return toagain and again.
(49:46):
And I know that so much of whatwe spoke about today will
resonate for our listeners.
And your work just reaches waybeyond this area.
And I'm so thankful.
SPEAKER_00 (49:56):
Thank you.
It was truly wonderful to talkto you.
I appreciate you so much.
SPEAKER_01 (50:01):
Gotta support each other.
SPEAKER_00 (50:02):
Yes, for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (50:03):
Thanks so much for tuning in today.
I'm so glad you spent this timewith me.
If something in this episoderesonated, feel free to share it
or pass it along to someone whomight need that little spark.
Until next time, keep humming.
Hello friends, it's me, Donna Bell, your host of
another episode of To Hum isHuman, the podcast where we
explore the transformative powerof tuning into our intuition to
express our passionate purpose.
In today's episode, The Sound ofPurpose, How to Discover Your
(00:27):
True Calling, we delve into whatit means to attune to your inner
voice and how collectivecreation and alternative
approaches to education may openthe door to greater artistic
freedom.
Whether you're a musician, aseeker, or someone simply
longing to live more alignedwith your truth, this
(00:48):
conversation is an invitation tolisten inward.
I am so thrilled to introduce mynext guest.
Michi Rianco is a multifaceted,imaginative composer, violinist,
educator, and collaborator whosework bridges creative
exploration, communityresilience, and social change.
(01:10):
A Juilliard graduate, anacclaimed soloist, she has
performed with the LA and NewYork Philharmonics and toured
with Silk Road and RhiannonGiddens.
Missions include works forCarnegie Hall's Ensemble
Connect, Orpheus ChamberOrchestra, the Seattle and
Boston Chamber Music Societies.
(01:33):
Michi is also the artisticdirector of Antenna Cloud Farm,
a Western Massachusetts-basedmusic festival, artist retreat,
and educational initiative.
There, she also leads theExperimental Institute, a
tuition-free youth summerintensive focused on creativity,
mental and deinstitutionalizedlearning.
(01:56):
Welcome, Michi.
Thank you so much.
I'm happy to be here.
It's an honor to have you.
Michi, your work spans so manyworlds, performance,
composition, teaching, socialimpact.
When did you first begin tosense that music would lead the
way for you?
SPEAKER_00 (02:17):
I started my musical journey from a very young age
with the violin, but I did havevery, very musical parents.
I started playing the violinaround the age of three and kept
at it through thick and thin asa youth.
And then I think in high school,I realized I wanted to pursue
(02:39):
music professionally.
At that time, Having takenprivate lessons and sort of come
up in the classical pedagogicalculture, even though I listened
to lots and lots ofnon-classical music, it felt
like there were only a fewoptions for a violinist who
(02:59):
wanted to become a professional.
You could go for that elusivedream of being a soloist.
You could try to join anorchestra.
You could maybe start a chamberensemble.
You could teach.
I never could have imaginedwhere I ended up now.
And I think it was really ajourney of listening to little
(03:22):
voices kind of tugging at mealong the way.
So I went to the Cleveland, Idid my undergraduate degree at
the Cleveland Institute of Musicand was loving what I was doing.
But I just had this feeling oflike, there's some creative
thing happening.
I want to do with music.
I don't know what it is.
I have no idea what thisfeeling, where it's coming from,
(03:45):
what it means.
All I know is that that feelingjust will not, it will not go
away.
There's some kind of music Iwant to be making that I'm not
making, and I don't know what itis.
So I, and it kind of botheredme, you know, it made me feel
like self-doubt, like, am I inthe wrong place?
Am I doing the wrong thing?
Am I impatient?
(04:06):
All this stuff.
So I started improvising.
I started exploring differentways.
I sat in with a band or two.
I kind of like justexperimented.
And that led me to reallystarting to expand my focus
outside of the classical realm.
And that's just an example, Ithink, of how my life and my
(04:29):
career has been formed.
I would say like the shortversion would be that whenever I
felt that voice or some feelingtugging at me, no matter how
small, I learned to really tryto listen to it.
I learned to recognize it assome kind of thing that was
trying to get my attention.
(04:50):
I learned to pay attention toit.
I learned to like carve outintentional time and energy to
really try to get what is at thebottom of this voice, you know?
Like, am I just hungry or?
Well,
SPEAKER_01 (05:07):
it's funny because you're speaking about these
sensations.
And when I think about music andhow that vibration that you're
producing through an instrument,through your voice, through
other means of making sound, itsort of fills the space, but it
also resonates within your body.
And I wondered as you werecomposing or as you were playing
(05:32):
music, Do you tune into how thatsort of resonates within your
body and directs you?
SPEAKER_00 (05:41):
Yeah, definitely.
I think I wasn't focused on thator I wasn't naming that or
acknowledging it until later inlife.
You know, I think as a kid, as ateenager, as a young adult, I
sort of took that all forgranted.
And it wasn't until...
(06:01):
I don't know, maybe my 30s oreven 40s that I started to
really name it.
I think the more teaching I doas well, and the more I realize
like if we are not fullyembodied while we do this, if we
are not listening to ourselveson just a physical level, then
(06:21):
we are not properly grounded.
to do any of this, you know,any, anything technical, any of
this like difficult passage workwith the left hand or whatever,
you know, young artists or youngperformers are trying to
accomplish with theirinstruments.
You have to be fully embodied.
Yeah.
And so I think that this is arelatively new endeavor for me
(06:44):
or, or area of exploration thatthe, the way that sound works,
It resonates in our bodies andthe benefit that it has for our
bodies, especially in recentyears, realizing that anybody
who's performing, whether theylike it or not, are kind of in
the business of healing, kind ofin the business of physical
(07:07):
therapy, sound therapy.
SPEAKER_01 (07:09):
Yes.
As a sound therapy practitionermyself and understanding how
sound frequencies work inhealing sort of entrainment and
resonance, there's somethingobviously to that because people
have shown that it does in facthave palpable results within the
body.
But I'd love to go back to howyou called your inspiration for
(07:35):
when you did compose music?
Where did your inspiration comefrom?
SPEAKER_00 (07:42):
So there is a tradition of, you know, like the
Baroque era of classical musichad a lot of performers who were
also composers, performers whowould also improvise on the
spot.
And that was really common.
And I think it has now had aresurgence.
(08:04):
It's more now more common, youknow, in the classical world or
the violin performance world forperformers to play a little solo
that they've written orimprovise a little a section,
but there was a period of timethere where it was pretty
strict.
pretty structured.
The idea of a classical musicimprovising would just melt some
(08:24):
people's faces off.
It caused a lot of deep anxietybecause everybody's trained to
just try to execute what's onthe page as perfectly as
possible and to uphold theseold, old Eurocentric traditions
and cultures just kind ofmindlessly in some cases without
really thinking about it.
(08:44):
And so it was that trying tobreak out of those what felt to
me like confined spaces.
So I think starting toimprovise, not within any kind
of genre, but actually like whatkind of noises can I make on the
instrument?
What happens if I go and collecta bunch of twigs and pebbles and
tap them on the bridge or thescroll or how can I free this
(09:09):
whole thing up?
And so that's what sort ofopened up a big creative door
for me, which eventually led tocomposition.
with the final sort of push thatI needed coming from a friend
who asked me to write her apiece.
(09:29):
I was like, what now?
You want me to what?
I'm like, me?
Are you sure?
She was like, yeah, oh my gosh.
I heard the stuff that you'redoing with your violin.
I heard what you're doing whenyou play with bands.
Can you write me a piece?
So I did.
And that sort of was, thatstarted it all.
Sometimes it just
SPEAKER_01 (09:48):
takes a little push from an outside influence to
kind of get you out of thatcomfort zone.
You're like, can I?
Yeah.
And of course, and you did.
So it was just a matter of, of,um, sort of attuning to that and
aligning to that.
And, you know, Michi, you'vecollaborated with an incredibly
diverse range of artists andgroups in various genres.
(10:13):
How has working with othersshaped and refined your
understanding of how you expressyourself?
SPEAKER_00 (10:20):
Yeah, I think working with others is where my
real passion lies.
There's so much commonalitybetween I think embodiment is
first and foremost, thatcommonality, knowing that
somebody else is also workingwith sound, you know, as their
(10:41):
medium and appreciating thosevibrations.
And I think musicians have a wayof really connecting.
Like we're so used to connectingwith each other without having
to use language, verballanguage.
It's just second nature.
So I think, yeah, collaboratingwith other musicians is, for
sure is just pure fun, usually.
(11:04):
I also love, I think,collaborating with
non-musicians, with visualartists, with filmmakers,
dancers, choreographers.
That's also been incredible justto see, just to learn about
other people's relationships totheir own practices, the ways in
(11:25):
which a filmmaker would describesomething musical that they want
you know they're going to uselike just a whole completely
different language than what howa musician would would talk
about it and i find that soincredibly fascinating yeah but
i think ultimately connectingwith others and exploring that
connection and then sharing thatconnection with an audience i
(11:49):
think is one of the mostimportant functions of art
SPEAKER_01 (11:54):
I'm absolutely with you there.
But I'm curious in terms of,say, when you're performing.
So there must be a verydifferent feeling when you're
performing as a soloist versusperforming collaboratively with
other artists.
Do you sort of tune into adifferent aspect of yourself or
(12:14):
is it sort of the same part?
SPEAKER_00 (12:17):
Yeah, I think I do tune into a different aspect.
It feels like I'm collaboratingwith myself, I suppose.
And it's changed verydramatically for me because for
a while I was playing the role,so to speak, of a violin soloist
for my career.
And I'm very fortunate to havebeen in that position, even
though ultimately I did not findit satisfying.
(12:39):
I found it lonely.
I found it like very, it's very,very, very high pressure.
It's very high stakes, highpressure.
Like you miss a note.
you miss a couple notes or youplay something slightly out of
tune and you're like, okay,that, that, that might've been
it.
You know, that might be mycareer.
Like that's that kind ofpressure.
And I was, I was meeting thosechallenges for a really long
(13:03):
time.
And then I discovered like, wow,this is actually beginning, even
though I love the repertoire, Ilove the violin concertos.
I loved playing with symphonies,but something was a miss for
sure.
Because it was, I was sostressed out all the time.
about it, that it was reallyblocking me physically from
(13:23):
being able to like gain thebenefits of the sound, you know,
and of the music making.
But what I've, so in sort of atherapeutic effort to be able to
play solo violin without thatkind of, you know, challenge,
that level of challenge andpressure attached to it, I
(13:45):
started Using effects pedals andusing an electric violin or at
least plugging in an acousticviolin electrically and putting
on solo shows where I combinepre-written material that I've
made for myself with just pureimprovisation that stems from
the energy I'm feeling in theroom.
(14:05):
I haven't done it in a littlewhile, but it's definitely on
my, it's percolating that thatis something that I would like
to do more.
more so when i'm doing that thatthat is i've discovered one of
my happy places where i feel themost free especially if there's
no written music in front of methen it just feels like kind of
(14:27):
pure communing with other people
SPEAKER_01 (14:30):
yeah and you're in essence having a concert with
yourself like sort of yourmultidimensional selves when
you're playing the layering.
I can only imagine the depth inthat performance, even though
there's only one you on thestage.
SPEAKER_00 (14:44):
Right.
Yeah.
And I think that the, for me,you know, playing with time,
utilizing silence, which I'm abig fan of as a musician, you
know, like are the rests inbetween the notes are just as
important as the notesthemselves.
I tell my students thatconstantly.
So to kind of be able to Yeah,to shift time and to have that
(15:08):
happen in a collective spacewith other people, I think can
be really, I've had some prettypowerful and emotional
experiences, just feeling it'salmost, it almost feels
interactive.
Even though the audience is justsitting there watching, I can
feel energy happening that makesit feel like this is a
definitely an interactivesituation.
(15:28):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (15:30):
Well, and I just love how you're sort of creating
these spaces.
And I would love to talk abouthow you were pulled to create
the antenna cloud farm.
SPEAKER_00 (15:41):
Yeah.
This idea came to me randomlywhile I was pumping gas at a gas
station.
I remember the exact moment.
I think the It was done.
The tank was done filling and Ijust kept standing there.
My husband was like, are youokay?
SPEAKER_01 (16:02):
I'm getting a download.
SPEAKER_00 (16:03):
What's that?
I'm getting a download.
Hold on.
I'm not available to talk rightnow.
We were kind of in a transitionof moving up here gradually.
kind of inching our way up toFranklin County from Brooklyn.
Wow.
Yeah.
(16:24):
Where we had lived for a longtime.
My husband's from New York.
And I really wanted to leave thecity.
We wanted to come toMassachusetts.
We were really drawn to thispart of the state, just
gorgeousness and really coolstuff happening, really cool
arts, really cool culturalstuff, farming, agricultural
stuff, which we found reallyamazing.
(16:45):
And I was fearful of leaving myartistic community in New York.
I was fearful of feeling lonely,of feeling isolated as an
artist.
So I thought, well, what if wefound a space that we could
bring people to?
And we can bring our friends to,or our colleagues to, to enjoy
(17:07):
the beauty of WesternMassachusetts, have a retreat
from the city, and have like anartistic retreat.
And what if we stuck a concertonto that?
And then what if we sent thosemusicians into like local
schools to hang out with themusic class or, you know, give a
performance at the school?
(17:29):
So it just kept growing.
It actually grew quite fast.
I say it grew incrementally, butby year two, I was giving like
10, you know, concerts everyother weekend for like three,
four months straight.
It was crazy.
And yeah, it's just, It's alabor of love.
It's now grown into somethingwhere we have, you know, it's
not just our friends.
It's a combination of artiststhat come from near and far,
(17:52):
hyper-local or sometimesinternational, and artists who
are really doing somethingpowerful and interesting and
innovative and different withtheir practice, with their
instruments, with their mediums.
And yeah, it's a, it's a laborof love.
It's a work in progress.
And I think it's always going tobe, I think it's always
(18:14):
shifting.
And that's become something I'm,I'm pretty proud of that is just
constantly in evolution andconstantly in a state of growth
and responsiveness to the worldand to artists needs to our
local communities needs.
So we're quite a robustpartnership organization, lots
(18:36):
of, various types of programsnow that are stemming from
Antenna Cloud Farm and lots ofdifferent kinds of engagement.
Could
SPEAKER_01 (18:45):
you tell our listeners just briefly what
Antenna Cloud Farm is?
First of all, I want to knowwhere the name came from because
it's
SPEAKER_00 (18:53):
just
SPEAKER_01 (18:53):
so compelling.
I'm like, oh, I'm
SPEAKER_00 (18:54):
so curious already.
I don't even know what it is.
Well, we're located on a hill infor any geologists out there,
it's the Drumlin, which is ahill that's, you know, the
result of some big glacialmovements.
But we, it's a former dairy farmand we have, we're lucky to have
(19:18):
this gorgeous view of thevalley.
And I think I kind of dreamt upthe word antenna because a lot
of our, I think when people,especially our New York friends,
when they're like, you're goingto move where?
New Yorkers are just, most ofthem can't fathom ever living
(19:41):
anywhere other than New York.
It's tough to leave.
It's a city that very much drawsyou in.
And we still love it.
New Yorkers don't get mad at me.
But they were like, oh, you'rekind of going, you're going to
move somewhere.
to the middle of nowhere toraise a family and just kind of,
you know, we're like, actually,we're coming out here to be even
more expansive and to be moreoutward facing.
(20:03):
It's not a retirement plan.
You know, this is a veryintentional, you know, community
facing.
And so I have this old black andwhite photograph of a person
who's got huge headphones on andis holding a little satellite
dish.
I think it's a it's amicrophone.
It's like from the 60s orsomething, 50s.
(20:25):
And the person is, I believe, anornithologist or like a bird, is
listening to birds and capturingthose sounds.
And it's a really coolphotograph of this person just
sitting, you know, standing onthe edge of a hill, holding this
antenna out to the valley.
And so that's really where theword antenna came from, this
(20:46):
idea that the outward facing,community facing, expansive
antenna.
Receivers.
And then clouds, just because wefeel close to the clouds up
here.
And watching the patterns ofweather and clouds come in and
out is a big activity foranybody who's up here.
How big is it?
How big is your property?
(21:07):
We're on 100 acres.
UNKNOWN (21:09):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (21:10):
Yep.
With some of it wooded, some ofit open, some of it we're
putting into conservation.
A lot of it hosts a large flockof sheep.
from farmer friends who practiceregenerative and sustainable
agriculture locally here.
So it's been wonderful to learn,really inspiring.
(21:35):
And we're really grateful tohave learned so much about the
local agricultural culture hereas well.
And just so grateful to knowwhere our food comes from.
Yes.
Well,
SPEAKER_01 (21:48):
so, you know, aside from inviting, you know, highly
accomplished musicians, but youalso invite people of all levels
sort of within their practice,it sounds like.
SPEAKER_00 (22:18):
um nature of what we're doing you know we're very
much rooted in um bartering andmutual aid and very much like we
do not operate in atransactional purely
transactional way you know wetry to approach everything as
holistically as possible um Sobut the there's also an
(22:43):
institute, the ExperimentalInstitute.
I wanted to talk about that.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (22:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (22:49):
So there are lots of different.
One of my dreams is to have ayouth like a youth music camp
for, you know, junior high ageor high school age students.
musicians to come up here, butfor now,
SPEAKER_01 (23:04):
all these bubbling ideas, like it's just, they're
percolating, but you're there.
Like, it sounds like just fromthe get-go from the idea at the
gas station that you knew youwere onto something because it
just started growing all of asudden, it's almost like you
tapped into this sort of veinthat just became like this
(23:25):
living thing.
project and it sounds like it'sconstantly evolving.
Now, I'm curious because youwere mentioning sort of the
agricultural aspect of thelocation itself, but I know that
you do partner with severalorganizations and you deal with
sort of social, racial, food,and climate justice.
How did that become a part ofsort of the vision of Antenna
(23:48):
Cloud
SPEAKER_00 (23:48):
Farm?
I think I think we're first ofall so lucky to be in this part
of the country and this part ofthe state where it's rich with
people who are out there usingtheir mediums or their crafts or
(24:09):
their organizations or theirfocal points, whether it's
climate activists or farmers toreally kind of revolve their
work around community health,community wellness, community
resilience.
There's so much of thathappening from so many different
(24:31):
angles.
And so I think finding thatcommon ground with other
organizations and other entitiesoutside of music has been, first
of all, very gratifying justbecause I love to learn.
And so I've learned so muchabout other areas of work and of
life.
But it came about in justmeeting people and hanging out
(24:56):
and making connections, noticingwhen there's kinship and
following up with that, justbuilding community, which can
mean so many things.
And, you know, that's a termthat's used so much, but it
really is what it feels like.
Building a community, building anetwork, connecting.
That's not for just like, youknow, the sake of bettering or
(25:18):
furthering one's own career, buta network that is grown and
sustained in order to provideresilience, to be a place for us
all to find support when it'sneeded.
So
SPEAKER_01 (25:32):
valuable, especially around these times to be in sort
of a safe space.
You speak about community.
What have you witnessed sort ofon the individual level when
others step into a space like
SPEAKER_00 (25:46):
Antenna?
Yeah.
I don't want to brag.
SPEAKER_02 (25:55):
Please, please.
This is
SPEAKER_00 (25:56):
the place.
This is the place, yes.
I'll talk about the ExperimentalInstitute because we're entering
our fourth season this comingsummer.
And this is an early career...
activist performers or youngmusicians or composers or music
creators who are passionateabout using their art for the
(26:21):
betterment of society, really,is what that is.
People who arecommunity-oriented and who have
a vision, not just forthemselves and their own
careers, but a vision for theircommunities and So those are the
kinds of people that we areinviting into the cohort here.
(26:42):
And because of that, we thoughtafter year one, we thought it
was a fluke.
We were like, first of all, thatwas too good to be true.
It was as soon as everybodystepped foot here, the energy
was just electric.
And it was because we hadfashioned the application
process towards, you know,artists like the ones I just
(27:05):
described, as opposed to what'smore standard, which is how
impressive is your resume?
What are the big institutions?
Did you make your debut atCarnegie Hall?
This kind of stuff.
And so I think the moment,representation is very important
here.
So the faculty and the mentorsand the people who are helping
(27:28):
behind the scenes or whatever.
It's like a very, very, verydiverse group of individuals.
The cohort itself is verydiverse in literally every
single way, every singledefinition of that word.
And we tried very mindfully tocurate the time together in a
way that opened up the space,allowing for people to feel safe
(27:55):
and to feel vulnerable.
I think one way we did that wasby being vulnerable ourselves,
you know, as the so-calledfaculty group and to make it
really clear that beingvulnerable is a really powerful,
(28:18):
productive, generative space.
to be in if it's truly a safespace to do so.
So I think that all of that,plus this idea that when we're
all here, it is a sort ofcommunal living situation.
For the most part, we take turnsgetting ready for meals.
We take turns cleaning up.
(28:41):
Ideally, you know, on day threeor day four of a 10 day session,
we're trying to facilitateenough comfort and familiarity
and sort of individualempowerment that the young
artists or the, you know, thefellows understand.
start feeling empowered tocurate something themselves or
(29:02):
to run a class.
It can be experimental or runsome kind of embodiment session
or movement session or somethingthat they want to play around
with.
So yeah, it's quitemultifaceted.
And that's also something that'schanging and growing and
evolving each year as well.
SPEAKER_01 (29:22):
It sounds like such a rich environment.
For creativity, I think of thatmovie, the baseball movie,
they're like, if you build it,they will come.
You're literally on a farm andyou're creating this space.
But there's something I wouldlove to talk about because
you've embraced what you calldeinstitutionalized learning and
(29:44):
stepping outside the traditionalsystems to learn and grow.
Where did that come from and howdoes that show up in your
practice?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:56):
I'm always playing around with language too.
So yeah, so deinstitutionalizedlearning is something I've just,
I might change that.
I don't know.
I think I added that word tosome of our materials last year
because I was like, that is,that is, you know, one thing
that we are doing.
But that came from...
A lot of experiences that mycollaborators, my co-directors
(30:21):
of the Institute, and I have hada lot of experience in
institutions, in educationalinstitutions, institutional
settings, and still do.
And this comes from justhands-on, like lived experience
in music conservatories andinstitutions and seeing people
(30:43):
not to be totally negative aboutit, but seeing and kind of
studying really closely the waysin which those institutions were
not serving the students in away that was truly preparing
them for the real world tobecome like for what it means to
be a professional musician oreven what it means to just be an
(31:05):
awake, aware, engaged person inthe world.
There was a lot of There was alot of we were witnessing a lot
of like institutional failure, Ithink, and inability to be
nimble and responsive, inabilityto bust out of the rigorous, you
know, structures that are so oldand so outdated and outmoded.
(31:30):
But yet.
And everybody knows it.
But yet the job requires abuy-in of sorts, even if you're
going through the motions.
And so what I found so much wasjust a sort of almost just like
a disembodied culture in a lotof institutions.
And you have your wonderful gemsthat, you know, the teachers who
(31:51):
are just changing students'lives and doing amazing work
despite the structure, despitethe system that they have to be
a part of.
But my colleagues and I, wespent quite a few years, like
through the pandemic, we metweekly, talked for hours about
all of these kinds of things,about a lot of the issues that
(32:13):
we were seeing.
And a lot of those issues becamemore transparent during COVID,
right?
During the lockdown, a lot ofveils were lifted, a lot of
smoke sort of cleared.
And we were like, wow, it reallycame down to this, you know, and
it was eye opening, very, veryeducational.
And so in some ways, thisinstitute really came out of
(32:33):
that.
It really came out of like,okay, well, what are we going to
do?
What are we going to do aboutit?
What can we do?
As, you know, quite experiencedmusicians and educators now,
what can we build that wouldallow us to start to allow us to
build some kind of system orstructure from the ground up
(32:55):
rather than trying to go in andretrofit something that honestly
will not change.
It doesn't really work foreveryone.
It doesn't really work.
Yeah.
So- What can we generate to holdall these ideas?
And that's why we called it theExperimental Institute.
Some people think it's becausewe're playing experimental
music.
And they're not wrong.
(33:15):
Sometimes we are.
It's more like, can weexperiment with a new kind of
institution?
A new idea of what aninstitution could be.
SPEAKER_01 (33:27):
What does that look like?
So what is a typical week in theExperimental Institute?
SPEAKER_00 (33:32):
A typical week, well, everybody shows up in the
late afternoon and we have ahuge festive meal.
We tour the property, we talk,we sometimes get our instruments
out and we'll do some I callthem musical greetings.
You can grab your instrument.
You can grab a tin can.
(33:53):
We're going to go around in acircle and you can make any
noise, any sound that representsperhaps how you're feeling in
that moment.
It's very, very free and open.
So we do a lot of these initial,my colleagues and I kind of each
have a bunch of things that welike to do.
So we, we take turnsfacilitating sessions that start
(34:16):
generating some feelings ofopenness and allowing for people
to really start to get to knoweach other and to really start
to share deeply about what theydo, what they're into, why, why
they do what they do.
And then for the next few days,it's a very organized process.
(34:39):
very carefully curatedcurriculum that each year is a
little different.
There's just some ebb and flow,some give and take, just because
usually there's way more that wewant to do than we end up having
time to do because we're alsotrying to allow for rest.
(34:59):
Sometimes we all go on a grouphike through the woods or visit
the river, but it's acombination of discussion,
writing, writing prompts,journaling, playing, playing
music for each other, creatingmusic together, having workshop
(35:21):
sessions where we talk about theway that music is made, or we
talk about what each person isexperiencing in their schools or
their workplace, or whatever itmight be.
So there's a lot of therapyinvolved.
kind of sessions end up feelinglike therapy sharing a lot of
(35:41):
exploration a lot of physicalmovement stuff and then that
interspersed with a social thesocial aspect and also the
respect for alone time andrespect for solitude and quiet
and and sort of lettingeverybody's nervous systems
reset.
So we have pages and pages andpages where we just try to, you
(36:06):
know, we really try to strikethat balance throughout the
week.
SPEAKER_01 (36:11):
What I'm noticing is it is a very holistic approach
to how music is made, thecreation of the music, and sort
of what that means, what thatentails.
And it's sort of a living thing.
You are sort of bringing to formand expressing something within
(36:33):
yourself through an instrument,through sound, through your
voice, but also engaging in thelandscape.
So you're creating a soundscapewithin a landscape, but also in
your mind, which is your body,which is how you interact with
the world.
I think that's a very...
much needed, but right nowreally a unique approach to
(36:56):
learning.
SPEAKER_00 (36:56):
Yeah, I think it is unique.
And the more we're in it and themore we're building it, the more
it becomes normalized for us.
So then when I do a lot of sortof guest teaching or guest
coaching in different schoolsand institutions around the
country, I'm always kind ofsurprised like, oh, yeah, that's
right.
This is unusual.
(37:16):
And a lot of what we sometimesdon't It's just somebody sharing
something that they made that aprofessor or somebody from their
institution told them is not,quote, you know, how things are
done.
And then having a lot ofself-doubt about like, is this
(37:40):
okay, what I made and how I madeit?
It's different.
It's unusual.
And it hasn't really been donebefore.
Is this okay?
I'm being told it's not okay.
So then bring us into thepicture, you know, and we just
dive right into that idea.
And it's always because of thepeople who are coming here.
(38:00):
It's always a wonderful, amazingidea.
So we're very affirming.
And I think we provide eachother with that kind of support
and affirmation to be like, no,even like the fact this has
never been done is a good thing,you know, so follow that, follow
that instinct.
So yeah, there's a lot of that.
It's like a big support group,really.
Oh,
SPEAKER_01 (38:21):
my goodness.
And I can imagine afterattending this and participating
in this that what then theybring out into the world becomes
sort of a shift, perhaps, inthat paradigm and ways in which
they think about themselves andperhaps, you know, what they
choose to take in and what theychoose to sort of leave behind.
(38:43):
After
SPEAKER_00 (38:44):
year two...
I think that the moment Irealized really felt deeply how
powerful this was, because Ithink I wasn't allowing myself
to fully, I was like, this Ithink is a fluke, you know?
I think it was just happened tobe a magical thing.
The moment it dawned on me, themoment I really realized it, I
(39:09):
just immediately started crying,was when I began to see that
fellows who came here who are indifferent cohorts, different
years, we're now finding eachother out in the real world and
building things together ormeeting for the first time and
immediately feeling a sense ofconnection and closeness because
(39:31):
of coming from here and havingthis in common.
And they were telling me thesame, like the people who, the
fellows who have been here havegiven a lot of feedback that is
quite moving about the impactthat this has had in their
lives.
(39:51):
I just get
SPEAKER_01 (39:52):
chills about that.
I mean, it just shows reallythat the truest creativity is
one that inspires even morecreativity.
SPEAKER_00 (40:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (40:01):
And it just expands even further, far reaching.
So, you know, you're doingsomething, you know, you're onto
something and that's just puremagic.
And I feel like magic is made atthe antenna cloud farm.
But, you know, sometimes it'sunderstood that, you know, our
purpose is something that justwe find one And we hold on to it
(40:22):
forever.
But your journey seems to be oneof constant evolution.
How is your sense of purposeshifted or expanded over time?
SPEAKER_00 (40:33):
Oh, I love that question so much.
Because it really touches on, Imean, it's a weird, you know,
it's very personal.
It's a very personal thing toshare.
But I think it's reallyimportant.
Potentially, especially ifthere's, you know, younger
person listening to this askinga lot of similar questions.
(40:55):
I went for decades with, youknow, with this feeling that I
was not quite doing somethingright, or that I was failing to
stick with just the thing.
(41:20):
this little self-doubt, youknow?
I mean, I'm also a veryconfident person and, you know,
was very proud of what I wasdoing, but it was this, always
this tiny, tiny little voice waslike questioning.
Is it okay that you sort ofstarted, you know, exploring
non-classical realms?
Is it okay that you just playedwith this crazy hip hop band or
(41:44):
this country band or, you know,is it okay that now you're,
trying to compose music when youdidn't go to school for it.
And all these, all thesequestions of like, is, I don't
know if that's okay.
Like, I feel like I'm failing tostick with the one thing, you
know, I'm, am I just failing tofollow through the one thing
(42:05):
that I maybe was supposed to bedoing, which is be a violin
soloist.
And I see other friends whostuck other colleagues, other
people I went to music schoolwith who stuck with their thing
and And they're, you know,hugely successful doing awesome
stuff, but they stuck with theone thing.
And it was a couple of yearsago, I was talking to my
husband, Judd, who's also acomposer and musician.
(42:26):
And we were just talking aboutthis and he was like, but maybe
the exploration that you is justa regular part of your life is
the thing, you know, that theact of exploring is, And the act
of searching and the act ofresponding to, you know, the
(42:50):
energies and the voices, whetherthey're stemming from internally
or externally, that act ofcontinuously evolving and
growing, like maybe that is thething.
And that just shifted.
Something clicked, finally.
Something clicked.
And I no longer have that voice.
(43:13):
I have that voice in other areasmaybe, but, you know.
Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (43:18):
you know, we get all sorts of nudges, you know, and I
feel like you took the strongernudge and it felt very natural.
And obviously then it startedbecoming this other thing, which
is now feeling like it's justgrowing and expanding.
And, you know, you're on theright track when something feels
so good within you.
And then who it affects alsofeels this sort of beautiful
(43:42):
thing.
nudge to keep creating.
If there's a listener out there,sort of either a young listener
who's wanting to maybe Iwouldn't say entertain.
So someone listening right nowwho feels the quiet hum of
something inside them but hasn'tyet found the courage to express
(44:06):
it, what would you offer them?
SPEAKER_00 (44:09):
I would encourage them to to not bury it, to not
try to let it go, um, to trydifferent ways of listening to
it, perhaps, you know, go for awalk in a beautiful place, move,
move your body, go visitsomeplace you haven't been
before.
Bring a journal, write about it,try to release it some way, try
(44:33):
to name it, um, try to know whatit is.
Um, trial and error is sometimespart of it.
Sometimes you try a thing andyou're like, you know what, that
wasn't actually it.
And that's okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But I think this idea that we,the idea of trusting ourselves
(44:57):
and respecting how we feelpersonally about, about things,
I think that's hard to teach.
And I think it's not somethingthat, Society does well for our
younger people.
I think we have to figure outhow to build that for ourselves.
(45:19):
How do we trust ourselves?
How do we listen to our ownvoices?
How do we let our own internalvoices be louder than any
external voices that might beplanting seeds of doubt or seeds
of fear?
How do we stay true toourselves?
(45:40):
Those are really toughquestions.
And I think that my advice wouldbe to not just search for the
answers, but just to keep askingthe question.
I think if the questions can benormalized in life, just keep
asking the questions and becomfortable being in a state of
(46:03):
asking questions.
And let that be the normal.
Answers do start to emerge hereand there, but maybe the goal is
not to find answers to everysingle question.
Maybe the goal is to reallyexplore the questions.
SPEAKER_01 (46:20):
I love that.
That's so beautiful and powerfuland really giving yourself
permission to be receptive.
to things that you may not haveconsidered in your path.
What's in the future for you?
What's next coming up thatyou're really excited about?
SPEAKER_00 (46:38):
I specifically, I would like, I have sort of a
goal of becoming more connectedto my violin.
Meaning playing some more shows.
I haven't played a show in awhile.
Developing a solo set.
(47:00):
Perhaps recording a new album.
All of this I've had to put onthe back burner for a few years.
Because I'm lucky enough to becommissioned by other people to
write music.
But I'm trying so, so, so hardto carve out space.
A space that I would considerjust my ultimate home.
(47:20):
space of creative freedom whichwould be like not a commission
just something i'm creating justfor the sake of creating it so
that's what i'm hoping is in mypersonal future for my own my
own stuff um and for acf there'sbeen so much growth um we're
slowly expanding our summerfestival so that there's also
(47:42):
engagements that happen duringthe school year We've formed a
lot of new partnerships withlocal schools, local public
schools and music programs.
And also we're hosting retreatsfor non-public facing retreats
for artists who are working onsome really incredible projects.
(48:05):
So there's never a dull moment.
There's never not anything goingon.
SPEAKER_01 (48:11):
Yeah.
Right.
Well, how do folks connect withyou and what you're doing?
Are there particular places youwant them to go to find
SPEAKER_00 (48:19):
out more?
Yeah.
I mean, they could visitantennacloudfarm.com.
I would highly recommend signingup for our newsletter, which I'm
very proud of.
I think it's really beautiful.
It's very, very thoughtfully andlovingly put together in our
community.
Non-summer season, it goes outmaybe once a month, once every
(48:41):
couple months, and then duringthe summer more frequently when
things are starting to happen.
Yeah, but I would recommendchecking out our newsletter.
And
SPEAKER_01 (48:51):
can they check you out personally?
Is there a site where they cango to see what you do?
SPEAKER_00 (48:56):
They can go to michiwianco.com.
Mm-hmm.
Or they can find me onInstagram, which is where I'm
more likely to have updatedevents and concerts.
These days, it's a lot ofconcerts that are featuring
works that I've written.
But my website has my works liston it, ways to purchase my music
(49:20):
that I've written, some funvideos, things like that.
Oh, my gosh.
SPEAKER_01 (49:25):
Michi Wianco, thank you so much for sharing your
wisdom, your insight, yourvulnerability.
I mean, I feel like that wassuch a generous way in which
you've told your story today.
And, you know, you're basicallyshowing us that the purpose
isn't the destination.
It's a resonance we return toagain and again.
(49:46):
And I know that so much of whatwe spoke about today will
resonate for our listeners.
And your work just reaches waybeyond this area.
And I'm so thankful.
SPEAKER_00 (49:56):
Thank you.
It was truly wonderful to talkto you.
I appreciate you so much.
SPEAKER_01 (50:01):
Gotta support each other.
SPEAKER_00 (50:02):
Yes, for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (50:03):
Thanks so much for tuning in today.
I'm so glad you spent this timewith me.
If something in this episoderesonated, feel free to share it
or pass it along to someone whomight need that little spark.
Until next time, keep humming.
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