November 10, 2025 • 29 mins
Apple’s latest sci-fi series, Pluribus, from Vince Gilligan, picks up right where Breaking Bad. This time, instead of meth meth, humans are addicted to swapping saliva and rewriting our DNA. In true Twilight Zone spirit, the outbreak unfolds through the eyes of Carol Sturka (Rhea Seehorn), a fantasy author with rare immunity to the global hive-mind consciousness. On the pod, we unpack the best and worst moments, the realisticness of the scenario, the cameos, comparisons, theories, and of course, our rating.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:15):
Welcome to today's episode, the podcast where we
discuss the most recentinstallments of a different
series every show.
It is Monday, November 10th.
One of everyone's favorite showsever is Breaking Bad.
SPEAKER_00 (00:26):
Yeah?
Yeah, it's literally number oneon IMDB.
Is it still?
Yeah.
How about Better Call Soul?
How far behind is that?
Uh about 24 spots behind.
One thing I do find interesting,uh Breaking Bad got 16 primetime
Emmys.
Uh Better Call Saul wasnominated for 53 Emmys and never
won one.
Set the record for a show that'sbeen nominated the most but
never won.
SPEAKER_01 (00:46):
It did get better as it went on.
I at first thought it was theopposite because like you watch
the first season and there are acouple slower episodes at the
end.
It's like it would go up anddown and up.
It isn't very volatile thing.
But then like by season four, itreally it really found a pace.
And then I heard the last seasonis just one of the best.
And I've been saving it.
I've been saving it to watch.
(01:06):
And I'll be telling you thisthis ruined it.
You know, like Pluribus, thereare so many spoilers to breaking
bad in Better Call Soul.
I'm kidding.
But you do have the samecharacter.
You have uh, or sorry, you dohave the same person.
SPEAKER_00 (01:18):
Actress, Rhea Seaborn.
Yeah, and she plays Kim inBetter Call Souls, and then she
plays Carol Sturka here.
Do you know where the name CarolSturka comes from?
Because it's an homage to a TVshow that you watched a long
time ago.
SPEAKER_01 (01:29):
Carol versus the end of the world.
SPEAKER_00 (01:31):
No, that was a good guess.
It's actually the Twilight Zoneepisode.
SPEAKER_01 (01:34):
Uh season one, episode 14, the one where the
first episode is just like aTwilight Zone, uh, outer limits.
Yeah, it it could be its ownmovie almost.
SPEAKER_00 (01:43):
Yeah, and it's it's the just to clarify, it's the
episode where they uh where theearth is about to uh explode,
and then they go on thespaceship and then they fly and
you realize that Earth isactually where they're going to.
SPEAKER_01 (01:54):
That feel like that happened a lot in different
circumstances, yeah, where theyrealize they weren't actually,
we weren't following the Earthcharacters, we were actually
following the Martians or viceversa.
Um, the first episode here iscalled We Is Us.
And the synopsis of this show,in in really short form, is that
the world is taken over by anoutbreak of a virus-like
infection that rewrites ourgenetic code, allows every
(02:15):
person on the planet to becomeconnected and adopt a practical
worker hive mentality.
Some rare individuals areimmune, including Carol Sturka,
a fantasy romance author wholoses her partner and agent
during the outbreak and spendsthe first two episodes grieving,
trying to figure out what'sgoing on, and meeting the other
outliers in the hopes ofchanging the fate of the earth.
SPEAKER_00 (02:36):
Was I the only one who saw the name We Is Us and
thought, okay, this is a play onthis is us?
SPEAKER_01 (02:42):
Yes.
Because at that point I wastrying to figure, I was like
Pluribus, plural, uh, plural youus.
And then I was like, I I read onthe Wikipedia it's actually a
play on um uh e Pluribus Unum,uh, out of many one, the motto
of the US.
SPEAKER_00 (02:57):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (02:57):
Yeah.
And so it to me, the firstepisode just played out like
Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
They make mention of that in thesecond episode when they're like
pod people.
And I was like, okay, yeah,there's so much like random
stuff I just want to talk about.
I feel like anybody who's who'stuning in will have seen the
show, right?
So we don't have to go scene byscene as much as point by point.
Can we do that?
(03:18):
Yeah, let's do that.
So, like in in We as Us, it'salso a little bit like
Inception, where uh ChristopherNolan had an idea, a science
idea about a headline that heread about dreams and how
important they can be, right?
SPEAKER_00 (03:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:31):
But he completely misjudged the science of it,
didn't really factor into anysort of real thing that could
possibly happen.
This is the same way, where it'slike they do have like gel
electrophoresis, they do talkabout RNA and DNA and give the
right base names.
Um, but then when it gets intowhat is actually happening to
humanity, like the way of theoutbreak, they're just like it's
(03:51):
kind of like a virus, and thenthey just expect people to
accept that.
SPEAKER_00 (03:54):
But to be honest, the premise is so interesting,
anyways.
I didn't really care.
So it starts with, right?
Yes, a satellite field.
SPEAKER_01 (04:01):
So I thought I was dealing with landman because you
remember that's just starts witha truck and a bunch of
windmills.
Right.
So there's someone who's drivingup and they get out and they're
shocked and they're like, youyou gotta be kidding me about
this, right?
They're like, this is bullshit.
And they're like, no, no, no.
We got this code from 600 lightyears away.
Yeah.
And it's telling us thisfour-coded information.
(04:22):
And it takes this other lady tobe like, it's actually four
different tiers.
So it's like four bits of likedifferent information at the
same time.
And then they played it outalmost like um rocket.
What what's that old uh guitarhero?
You know, where like look atlike a guitar hero.
Yes, they start talking aboutit.
They figure out that this isactually, I'll jump ahead, an
RNA strand that's being uhdeciphered across the universe.
(04:46):
And so they take it and thenthey start doing tests with it.
And a few months later, becausewe keep on seeing the days go
by, like the days till theapocalypse, um, and uh we see
them running gel electrophoresisand doing PCR tests with a bunch
of different mice, um, trying todo uh CRISPR, which is like uh
cutting out pieces of um RNA andthen like sticking them in,
(05:07):
seeing how it would um, I guess,uh pop propagate in the mouse.
Right and how it would affectthem.
And I guess they're not comingup with m with much.
They come in there.
I'll stick with the sciencestoryline for now.
And uh and everybody's sayingthe same thing.
This is not working.
We're not seeing a virus here.
And so they get into the lab andthey're about to gas these mice
or kill them.
Um, she was gonna give themcardiac sticks, which I assume
(05:29):
is just a way to kill the mice.
Um, and instead, they alreadysee that one is down.
So she goes in, they think it'sdead.
She looks in it, and then shetakes off her protective
equipment on her glove, which isreally dumb.
And that's how like any zombiemovie starts.
That's how, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:44):
When did you know?
Because uh obviously that wasthe first sign of like, oh no,
something's gonna go wrong, butwhen did you know that the world
was fucked?
Like the whole world.
Just then.
SPEAKER_01 (05:52):
Like as soon as the bite happened, obviously.
SPEAKER_00 (05:54):
Uh well, I knew I knew that again, things were
going to get bad.
I didn't think that the worldwas fucked until Karen Sony, the
guy who uh is in the Deadpoolmovies and everything, until he
kissed the janitor.
That's when I was like, oh no,we're in for like uh apocalyptic
level.
SPEAKER_01 (06:08):
Yeah, so the first person gets bit and it's like
immediate.
So that's where it's like unlikea virus, unlike bacteria,
anything that we've seen before,because it was so quick moving
and it took her over, and thenit was still able.
This is this is the thing thatconfuses me later on, is that
what's happening is that it'srewriting her DNA so that she's
able to have this psychic uhconnection with every other
(06:30):
human in the world.
But at that point, she would bethe only human in the world.
So is she connected to themouse?
Like that's the only otherperson with that rewritten code.
Yeah.
But what we've seen later on, orwhat we're led to believe, is
that no other species on theplanet has this interesting code
and that it's not receivable byany other species except for
(06:53):
humans.
Because we don't see themtalking Aquaman style to
dolphins in the episode inepisode two.
In fact, they're just trying topreserve the wildlife.
SPEAKER_00 (07:00):
It may have made more sense, and I understand
that that uh that probably themouse being alive was a big uh
hint to something that's goingto come, but it may have made
more sense had the mouse justbeen or and died, and then it
was like it was just kind ofpassing that on.
SPEAKER_01 (07:15):
I may have answered my own question too, because
they do say in episode two thatthey release all the animals in
the zoo.
And why would they do that?
Because obviously, if they'vebeen raised in captivity, they
couldn't survive, even if humanswere all being nice to them in
the outside world.
But if they are connected on thesame weird RNA-enabled strand uh
(07:35):
that that is rewritten theircode as well and made them
telepathic, then uh, orhive-minded, part of the hive
mind, then maybe it makes sensewhy they're all allowed to be
out and free.
That really confused me in thesecond episode.
I was like, they they even saidthere were a few maulings.
So if if it was the case thatthey were all on the same sphere
of mind, then why would therehave been maulings?
(07:57):
I don't think that this is across-species thing.
However, that's how it starts.
It starts with a mouse bitingthe human to get it into their
thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (08:05):
It always starts off with like a rabid beast.
Like I remember a contagion, itwas like a bat or something.
SPEAKER_01 (08:09):
Right.
But again, it's not like there'san evil thing that's happening
to the first lady.
So in her mind, I'm justwondering what's causing her to
infect other people becauseshe's the only one in there
right now.
Then when she connects the KarenSony guy, right, the other uh
doctor, and then he goes andthey start adding more and more
people, it makes more sense whythey adopt this sort of
(08:31):
utilitarian task force whereeverybody's working for the same
mission at the same time.
That swab scene was sodisgusting to me.
It was.
It was it was gross.
And that's where it's like,okay, I can understand what
they're doing.
They're trying, it's like ifCOVID was uh a hoax in that like
it actually had been.
That's that's the way thatpeople are imagining it when
they're like, okay, there was abig lab and they sent all these
(08:54):
COVID swabs out, and people wereeating donuts and infecting
themselves.
So, what's the other storylinewe get?
We get Carol, she's at a Barnesand Noble, she's doing a book
reading for what do you did youget what her name was called?
It was something of the Y Caro.
SPEAKER_00 (09:08):
No, it reminded me a lot of like Sarah J.
Moss's like Throne of Glass.
It's basically those type ofbooks.
Like it's supposed to be afantasy romance.
You got a lot of uh middle-agedwomen who are very, very
interested in these uh kidscharacters.
That I thought was a great jokebecause you never see like any
teens or any kids there.
It's just all moms.
SPEAKER_01 (09:27):
Except you also see, I think there was a standout
cameo with the guy fromSeverance.
SPEAKER_00 (09:31):
You know, I know I looked it up to see if that was
him.
It's not listed on as IMDB orWikipedia.
He looks so much.
But he did look a lot like him.
SPEAKER_01 (09:39):
He was in line, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (09:40):
There was it was very little of that interaction
at Barnes and Noble wasscripted.
A lot of them were just kind oftold what they should do, but a
lot of the lines.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (09:48):
Because they did cut around it, did a montage of just
the her experiences.
The guy brought a sword withhim, being like Don't don't
touch this, it's very sharp.
Uh-huh.
And uh and then she leaves withher agent, and we learn that A,
she is fed up with this workthat she's doing.
She finds it pretty crappy.
I guess she just likes makingpay a living, but at the same
(10:10):
time, it's not like her endgoal.
Her end goal is to write her ownbook or which she's already
started, something thechrysalis.
Um, and she also has arelationship with her agent,
Helen.
That is who she actually wrotethe book about, but she can't
say that in this day and age, Iguess.
And so she had flipped the sexesso that it would be more of a
traditional, uh, straight coupleum uh story.
SPEAKER_00 (10:32):
I think that's an homage to Vince Gilligan,
because Vince Gilligan, when hewas first conceiving the idea,
because he's been working onthis for like 10 years,
originally thought it was goingto be a guy.
Then he was just like, you knowwhat, I like Rhea Seahorn, and
then he uh gave her the script.
She signed on before he evenpitched the show to anyone.
SPEAKER_01 (10:47):
It also reminds me when he was talking about how
originally he wanted to makeWalter White into Wanda White
and that it was gonna be awoman, but now I'm just um yeah,
so it to me it felt as if, yeah,uh Vince Gilligan has hung out
with James Gunn just far toomuch because James Gunn loves
these brain monsters, the bigfish guy in Suicide Squad, the
(11:08):
butterflies in um uh Peacemaker.
Peacemaker and the worms inSlither.
It's always the same idea of ittaking over, but those are
usually parasites.
And this, from at least episodetwo onward, we're supposed to
believe that this is not aparasite.
It's in fact just every personon Earth has uploaded their
consciousness into this one biguh cloud brain that they're all
(11:31):
able to pull upon.
However, there are somedrawbacks.
So by the end of the firstepisode, everybody in the world
freezes in front of Carol,starts having little mini
seizures, right?
And she's unable to communicatewith anybody at all.
And so she goes to the hospitaland everybody's frozen.
And then she sees her, evenHelen, who she's trying to save,
(11:52):
uh, dies in front of her.
She tries to give her CPR um andcannot resuscitate her.
SPEAKER_00 (11:57):
Well, I think it's also very important because the
way that it's spread is it kindof reminds me of The Last of Us
almost, but is through a kiss,and the doctor who is infected
kisses.
SPEAKER_01 (12:07):
It doesn't, it doesn't spread through it, it
spreads through um any sort ofDNA getting into you, but that's
the quickest way.
Right.
It's just like mouth to mouth.
SPEAKER_00 (12:14):
And a doctor does kiss Carol, but Carol, much like
the main character in contagion,is kind of immune, at least as
of now.
SPEAKER_01 (12:21):
Yeah, another confusing premise is the first
time we see these, uh, the mousebite her, it it happens almost
instantaneously, you know, um,where she's infected and then
suddenly like her brain changesor like her DNA changes.
And the same thing happens withthe first set of people, the
army people.
But later on, it seems like whathappens is they must have adopt
uh adapted the um virus thingbecause everybody goes like
(12:45):
freaky seizure mode all at thesame time in the entire world.
So that must mean that theactual science has changed, that
they've created some way toincubate and so they've been
like dispersing it.
Because again, the days arecrawling by.
We know that all of this stuffwould have gone into people's
bodies by now, but they don't goinstant zombie mode, uh, you
(13:05):
know.
So I think it just waits until asingle second.
Maybe then a radio signal orsomething uh says right now, and
then everybody at the same timebecomes uh uh stuck in that
phase.
I guess that's to limitcasualties.
It also seems to cause almostone out of nine people on Earth
to die in one form or another.
I had a question whether or notthe reason why Helen dies is
(13:26):
because of that fall that shetakes when she has the seizure,
or if it's just that some peoplearen't capable of uploading
their brain without like goinginto brain bleed or something.
SPEAKER_00 (13:37):
The one out of nine thing reminded me a lot, the
leftovers.
And also, if it is what you'rekind of talking about, it's a
little bit like the bugs inWestworld.
I think it was just the factthat Helen Right from the fall.
I think it was just Helen fromthe fall that killed her.
SPEAKER_01 (13:48):
I because I don't think we did see other people
who were bleeding once they hadlike taken damage.
And like he said, when at thevery end, Carol is talking to
the man on the TV, the personwho is uh the high well, no one,
everybody is in charge, but hehas a suit on and he was like,
and I was intact.
They used the word intact,meaning that there are just so
(14:08):
many people who during that timeuh didn't come out of it the
right way.
SPEAKER_00 (14:13):
Davis Davis Taffler was his name.
The actor Peter Bergman wasintroduced to Vince Gilligan by
Brian Cranston.
He actually, I think, wasprobably my favorite character
out of the two episodes, eventhough he's only in that one.
SPEAKER_01 (14:24):
Yeah, I don't think he's coming back because that's
the whole point.
We will be so in the secondepisode.
So Carol has this epiphany ofwhat's like going on.
It's kind of just told to herstraight out.
She's like, is this an alieninvasion?
They're like, no.
What's happened is that ourbrains are all one now and we
are so happy, and you can liveyour own life.
We don't begrudge you.
They don't decide to stick herinto any sort of like it I would
(14:47):
understand it almost if theystuck her into a zoo.
SPEAKER_00 (14:49):
Because like that, A, that would be like
Slaughterhouse Five.
SPEAKER_01 (14:52):
And B, I do not not to not for entertainment
purposes, just for her ownsafety.
And then what we learn inepisode two is for their safety
as well.
If they cannot make decisions,if they cannot handle stress
from one individual, then youwould think that they would be
protective enough that theywould try to quarantine that
person and not just abide bytheir everywoman wish.
SPEAKER_00 (15:15):
I did, I did wonder, because she's like uh kind of
evoking a lot of stress by theend of the first episode, with
only 11 people in the world.
The fact that everyone is inunison was it 13?
Yes.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (15:28):
Well, with it's 11 others but her, but then they
found out there was a 12th inthe line in the second episode.
SPEAKER_00 (15:33):
And then there's like five others that can speak
English, and those are the fiveshe wants to meet with.
I was a little surprised.
I was like, you don't have Iunderstand that this is a new
virus and and things are goingto be figured out, but they
can't deal with the fact thatshe's just getting so angry to
them that they have to everyoneflips into a seizure.
SPEAKER_01 (15:49):
So this is all episode two.
Episode one, I just want to say,is probably just like probably
an eight or a nine to me.
Like it's just a solid, freaky,twilight zone-ish episode of TV.
And at the end, they're kind oflike, we're going to make you
one of us.
And she's like, What if I sayno?
And they're like, You don'tunderstand.
It's great.
And then she freaks out a littlebit because she's like, Holy
(16:09):
shit, they're not gonna acceptmy no when they do perfect the
science here.
Again, the science is kind ofcrazy.
The gene therapy, you reallyhave to just like the idea that
they can create some physicalchannel, a continuous, like high
bandwidth communication betweenbrains, uh, whether it be like
electrical, molecular, EM, whathave you.
(16:30):
Uh, it's it's such a farstretch.
SPEAKER_00 (16:33):
But I was able to get uh I was able to kind of
like write that off because Iwas just enjoying the
atmosphere.
I think my favorite shot is whenall the cars kind of in
synchronicity, like end upleaving because she wants
everyone to leave.
SPEAKER_01 (16:46):
Yeah, I would say severance is almost the exact
opposite of this, because inthat everyone's persona is
doubled, maybe even moretripled.
You know, like you have a bunchof different severed people.
In this, it's all about bringingthem all together.
You know, what happens if inseverance they get infected with
this puppy?
Then I mean, obviously,everybody would just act like a
(17:08):
freaking drone, like they do inthe second episode.
But at the same time, then AdamScott's all his different
identities would be one.
It's very much like humans, too,I thought, you know, because I
guess yes.
Like the roboticness when youwere bringing up Westworld and
how, like, yeah, usually we'rethinking about people being
encoded or robots being encodedthrough technology, but this is
more about our own code.
(17:29):
And it's just ironic becausethat one guy passed away, Watson
passed away over the last coupleof days, who had helped uh like
coin or figure out how DNAworked, the structure of DNA.
Episode two is called PirateLady.
And this is the one, it's calledPirate Lady because the book
that Carol had written, right?
The Waitara book, right, withthe main character, the dude in
(17:50):
that, this is like the ladyversion of that.
And they thought that it wouldbe the best version to talk to
her.
And by the end of the episode,she does sort of fall in love
with this character.
SPEAKER_00 (18:00):
So you think that's where it's going?
SPEAKER_01 (18:02):
You think that like that's where no, I don't know
yet.
But episode two, I have a lotmore issues with than episode
one.
Episode one, I felt kind of likeyou could fill in the gaps with
your own like headcanon.
But by episode two, where theystart giving you answers, is
where even more questions comeabout.
SPEAKER_00 (18:16):
And that's that's where it is.
It's like episode one kind ofgave you the premise, but they
really tried to expand it inepisode two.
And I give the show props for atleast not kind of waiting for us
to see the other people that uhthat have this rare thing where
they're not getting infected.
But when you start trying toanswer things and the answers
just really don't compute,that's when you run into some
problems.
SPEAKER_01 (18:36):
When we talk about answers that don't compute,
let's let's get into that.
So we're led to believe thateverybody is now one
consciousness, right?
Yeah.
And they all kind of worktogether.
That's what we see in the firstscene.
And I really like the shots thatthey did where it would be like
10 minutes where you just kindof watch people go about their
day doing activities, but clearas day to anybody who's watching
(18:57):
it that they all know what'sgoing on.
Very little dialogue, they don'thave to speak to each other to
know.
Um, but but when it comes downto the decision making as to how
their society works, I get it'ssupposed to be utilitarian,
right?
Everybody is supposed to workfor everyone's good, right?
Yeah, and and so they've chosento be vegetarian.
But I if they did a popular voteof everyone in the world, would
(19:21):
we really choose to be vegetvegetarian?
Like that's kind of a strangeone to me.
And then it says you that theywouldn't hurt a fly.
Like you you would try not to,not even an insect.
If you did a popular vote againof everybody getting stuck in
one person's head, would theyreally agree on not hurting a
fly?
SPEAKER_00 (19:40):
I think that that's more just kind of symbolism
because it's like vegetarians isis all about like uh kind of you
know, these other species.
SPEAKER_01 (19:49):
So, like there's yes, as much as they want to
say, we're everyone, you don'tunderstand, we're not being
invaded.
It does feel like there is anunderlying consciousness that
was sent forth from outer space,which is kind of guiding the
principles to which this new uhrace of humanity is dealing
with.
So, like with Carol's fear, Ifeel like some of the stuff
(20:12):
she's like, Oh, I just want toget back to normal, like that's
a little ridiculous at thispoint.
But her fear that this isn't allit's made out to be, I feel like
that's grounded because there'sno reason why if everybody was
working together, they would bethis way, but especially the way
that they're treating thesepeople.
So we see Carol get mad atPirate Lady, right?
(20:34):
Yeah, and she says, uh uh, youguys fuck this all up, right?
Like it's your fault.
And they freeze again, and thiscauses 11 million people to die.
Yeah.
This is a fool me once scenario.
Once she does that one time andthey realize how weak they are,
or everyone in the worldrealizes how weak they are, if
they still consider life to beprecious, which they tend to say
(20:54):
that they do, they won't evenhurt a lobster.
That would be the moment whereyou say, okay, we cannot be
around Carol.
We cannot be around people whowe cannot control.
And also, it doesn't really seemlike a very safe um RNA virus to
be sending overseas to otherworlds if they can be shocked or
flummoxed or or taken out byjust some random person yelling
(21:15):
at them.
SPEAKER_00 (21:16):
Well, it's it's obviously setting up like uh I
feel like hints for later on,maybe how these people are going
to be defeated or how thesealiens are going to be defeated.
But I agree with you.
The second that I learned that11 million people died from by
this six-second breakout, I waslike, that's that's thin skin.
SPEAKER_01 (21:32):
It's less about the fact that they died the first
time.
It's the fact that then allowedher to keep on just being around
them, you know, like kept oncalling the shots.
How is that evolutionaryhelpful?
And also, how is it like howdoes it make humanity better if
like we're losing more people tothat than we were when we were
all independent personalities?
They are slaves, as much as uhZosha, I think is his pirate
(21:55):
lady's name, yeah, uh says thatthey're not.
And and also like I just they'reincapable of making decisions
because they don't want to hurtanybody's feelings.
That's what they say later on.
And this just it doesn't feellike they made the decision to
infect everybody.
They made the decision to takeover things and kill a hell of a
number of people.
So, how are they able to makethat decision and then not like
(22:18):
the consequences of 13 randoswho they they could easily just
muscle bound into a small roomand keep them alive, probably
not at the happiest crew.
But that's better than whoringout like the population and and
and giving out like prostitutesto that one guy.
Because this is all getting intolike the weeds of the the
mentality of the 13 remainderremaining people.
(22:41):
But that's another thing is likeif she is a genetic uh uh
rarity, you would think thatsomeone in her family would be
more likely to have that samerarity than randomly 13 people
across the globe.
Like I I definitely believe thatthere would be random people
from a bunch of continents.
However, the idea that no onewould be related to anyone else
(23:04):
when they have that genome, liketheir their whole genome.
SPEAKER_00 (23:07):
Because we see their family, we see the law of their
family and they are all infectedby it.
SPEAKER_01 (23:12):
I'm saying if like you have the chances of someone
else in your family having agenetic illness are like
amplified times crazy if oneperson has it, right?
In your in your direct family.
So the idea that none of thesepeople have a relative who also
experienced that uh non-abilityto conform into this alien
species or this uh this newversion of humanity surprised
(23:34):
me.
Overall, though, it seemed likethe ending was a little clunky
to me because she scaredeverybody off.
The five people that she hadaccrued to try to be like, okay,
we got to do something aboutthis.
Right.
By the time that she causedeverybody, everybody else on
earth to have another seizure,another however million people
were going to die from that,everybody was kind of like, oh,
we're out of here, you know?
And the only one who stayedalong was the guy who wanted to
(23:56):
go to Vegas.
I think his name is KumbaDiamate in the show.
By that time, it it was more ofa comedy, and it felt like the
it's like Last Man on Earthstyle comedy, where the bigger
decision for her was not what dowe do about humanity now, but it
was more whether or not I got tokeep my own personal assistant
Zosha with me.
Because she and she could havejust walked up to the pilots
(24:17):
because that's how they leftthings when she saw Zosha and
this guy who's going to LA or toLas Vegas, um, getting on the
plane together.
She could have gone over to thepilot and said, Hey, could Zosha
come back?
And immediately through ifthey're all connected, yeah.
They are all connected.
Yeah, Zosha would have justwalked off the plane.
Instead, we see like this kindof over-the-top scene where she
demands the plane stop and sheruns out in front of the other
plane.
SPEAKER_00 (24:38):
Yeah, arms.
SPEAKER_01 (24:38):
Why is that necessary?
SPEAKER_00 (24:40):
It didn't make a lot of sense.
I'm hoping that not a lot of uhthose type of scenes happen
again because yeah, when youhave everyone connected, that's
kind of what makes this seriescool.
And it seemed like it almostforgot that in the final five
minutes.
What would your overall score befor this?
SPEAKER_01 (24:55):
For episode one, it was like an eight or a nine for
episode two.
I would bring that down to likea six.
Still, still fun to watch, butlike I was definitely put off by
a lot of the answers that theywere giving us.
I would compare it to WestworldUtopia, Twilight Zone with uh
pod people from Invasion of theBody Snatchers.
Also, it felt like a little bitlike weekend at Bernie's in the
first episode, where she justkept on dragging Helen around
(25:16):
her dead body.
Even in the second episode, shelooks over and she sees Helen
just on the ground.
SPEAKER_00 (25:20):
I thought that Primal uh was a good comparison
as well, because again, there isdialogue in the two episodes,
but there's definitely a lack ofit.
It's supposed to be told morejust kind of, I think, through
shots and kind of emotional uhexchanges.
But the series has receivedcritical acclaim.
Uh it has a nine on IMDB, 100%on Raw and Tomatoes, deadline
(25:41):
said of the pilot, thePowerhouse pilot is one of 25's
most impressive TV episodes.
SPEAKER_01 (25:47):
Yeah, so you could put that in the same place with
like Alien and those type ofthings.
We'll definitely get into ourbest of pretty soon because we
are in November at this point.
I will also say for Apple, likeit falls into their, they're
better usually with sci-fishows.
For all mankind, Severance,Foundation, Murderbot.
I enjoyed all at least someseasons of those.
Um, invasion is not my thing,but like for the most part,
(26:09):
Apple knows how to hit theseoff.
And with Vince Gilligan at thehelm, uh, just like with Better
Call Saul, episode two could bejust like one of the better
calls episodes I didn't like.
And then he was able to liketurn it all around.
SPEAKER_00 (26:20):
I think I think it is because Collider gave the
series a 10 out of 10.
BBC called it one of 2025's mostsmartest shows.
SPEAKER_01 (26:27):
And that's Oh, it's smart.
SPEAKER_00 (26:28):
Yeah, The Guardian gave called the show Incredible,
but then gave it four out offive stars.
So I think that like I'm I'mwilling to say that episode two,
and I'm hoping this is the case,was just kind of weak, and that
the rest of the episodes kind ofmake up for it.
SPEAKER_01 (26:42):
Just by giving us better answers or understanding,
I I just don't see how this thisspecies is so great.
Like, if they didn't have thisweird stress-related response
where they all kind of freakout, then it would be a whole
different type of show.
But I think this is to show usthe weakness of this uh new this
(27:02):
new life form.
SPEAKER_00 (27:03):
I just wish that the that if they did have this, it
was a stronger thing than thefact that uh Carol just gets mad
at them and suddenly they can'thandle it.
SPEAKER_01 (27:12):
If there was like continually keeps her stress at
that point where it's like evenafter the first time, the second
time, and she's like, it's nevergonna happen again.
Then she's yelling in front ofit, and it takes the guy going
to Vegas.
I don't understand though whythey keep on giving that guy
like people who are just gonnalike sleep with him.
Like it's still it's stillhumans, right?
Like it's still their brains.
And except you're sleeping withthe entire range of humanity.
SPEAKER_00 (27:34):
Well, I think what it was was that the guy was, at
least this is what I got, andmaybe uh they'll explain it
later.
But I think he was normal.
And then when he heard fromwhoever that uh, you know, he
just had to dial zero foranything, he was like, I'm just
gonna take this to the extreme,get a plane.
SPEAKER_01 (27:48):
He's living up his his genie wish.
Like I get his character.
I just don't understand whythey're abiding by it.
Why they're not like, yeah,we're not gonna do that.
Like they won't make himlobster, but they'll sleep with
him, with any woman that hewants.
He just asks for.
Like that doesn't, it doesn'tequate, you know?
It feels like it's working bytwo different sorts of rules.
(28:09):
And and like if for the sake ofthe television show, for me to
understand it, I just want it tomake sense.
Anything else you want to sayabout it?
SPEAKER_00 (28:15):
I will give the series a seven and a half out of
ten.
First episode nine, secondepisode six.
So I'm pushing both your scores.
SPEAKER_01 (28:22):
Yeah, that's that's that works.
It just means we're like-mindedon the situation.
Um, do you think that you wouldwant to live in this world?
SPEAKER_00 (28:28):
No.
I was a little surprised thoughthat everyone and I mean
everyone out of the six peoplethat she spoke to, including
yourself, that they that therewasn't one that was like, yeah,
you know what, we probablyshouldn't be doing this.
We we shouldn't be uh we shouldtry and fight this.
Because that's that's exactlywhere I would be.
SPEAKER_01 (28:45):
It's a losing battle.
I mean, clearly it's it's a lostbattle.
So I didn't understand her herthing of like, oh, who has a
background in biology?
As if they were going to beatout what, eight, nine million
people time billion people uh inone person in every single
person's head.
Um, yeah, no, I I have no ideawhere it's going.
(29:05):
So that's fun.
So thanks for listening.
We'll see you on the nextepisode.
Hope you enjoyed this one.
Bye.
Bye.
Welcome to today's episode, the podcast where we
discuss the most recentinstallments of a different
series every show.
It is Monday, November 10th.
One of everyone's favorite showsever is Breaking Bad.
SPEAKER_00 (00:26):
Yeah?
Yeah, it's literally number oneon IMDB.
Is it still?
Yeah.
How about Better Call Soul?
How far behind is that?
Uh about 24 spots behind.
One thing I do find interesting,uh Breaking Bad got 16 primetime
Emmys.
Uh Better Call Saul wasnominated for 53 Emmys and never
won one.
Set the record for a show that'sbeen nominated the most but
never won.
SPEAKER_01 (00:46):
It did get better as it went on.
I at first thought it was theopposite because like you watch
the first season and there are acouple slower episodes at the
end.
It's like it would go up anddown and up.
It isn't very volatile thing.
But then like by season four, itreally it really found a pace.
And then I heard the last seasonis just one of the best.
And I've been saving it.
I've been saving it to watch.
(01:06):
And I'll be telling you thisthis ruined it.
You know, like Pluribus, thereare so many spoilers to breaking
bad in Better Call Soul.
I'm kidding.
But you do have the samecharacter.
You have uh, or sorry, you dohave the same person.
SPEAKER_00 (01:18):
Actress, Rhea Seaborn.
Yeah, and she plays Kim inBetter Call Souls, and then she
plays Carol Sturka here.
Do you know where the name CarolSturka comes from?
Because it's an homage to a TVshow that you watched a long
time ago.
SPEAKER_01 (01:29):
Carol versus the end of the world.
SPEAKER_00 (01:31):
No, that was a good guess.
It's actually the Twilight Zoneepisode.
SPEAKER_01 (01:34):
Uh season one, episode 14, the one where the
first episode is just like aTwilight Zone, uh, outer limits.
Yeah, it it could be its ownmovie almost.
SPEAKER_00 (01:43):
Yeah, and it's it's the just to clarify, it's the
episode where they uh where theearth is about to uh explode,
and then they go on thespaceship and then they fly and
you realize that Earth isactually where they're going to.
SPEAKER_01 (01:54):
That feel like that happened a lot in different
circumstances, yeah, where theyrealize they weren't actually,
we weren't following the Earthcharacters, we were actually
following the Martians or viceversa.
Um, the first episode here iscalled We Is Us.
And the synopsis of this show,in in really short form, is that
the world is taken over by anoutbreak of a virus-like
infection that rewrites ourgenetic code, allows every
(02:15):
person on the planet to becomeconnected and adopt a practical
worker hive mentality.
Some rare individuals areimmune, including Carol Sturka,
a fantasy romance author wholoses her partner and agent
during the outbreak and spendsthe first two episodes grieving,
trying to figure out what'sgoing on, and meeting the other
outliers in the hopes ofchanging the fate of the earth.
SPEAKER_00 (02:36):
Was I the only one who saw the name We Is Us and
thought, okay, this is a play onthis is us?
SPEAKER_01 (02:42):
Yes.
Because at that point I wastrying to figure, I was like
Pluribus, plural, uh, plural youus.
And then I was like, I I read onthe Wikipedia it's actually a
play on um uh e Pluribus Unum,uh, out of many one, the motto
of the US.
SPEAKER_00 (02:57):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (02:57):
Yeah.
And so it to me, the firstepisode just played out like
Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
They make mention of that in thesecond episode when they're like
pod people.
And I was like, okay, yeah,there's so much like random
stuff I just want to talk about.
I feel like anybody who's who'stuning in will have seen the
show, right?
So we don't have to go scene byscene as much as point by point.
Can we do that?
(03:18):
Yeah, let's do that.
So, like in in We as Us, it'salso a little bit like
Inception, where uh ChristopherNolan had an idea, a science
idea about a headline that heread about dreams and how
important they can be, right?
SPEAKER_00 (03:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:31):
But he completely misjudged the science of it,
didn't really factor into anysort of real thing that could
possibly happen.
This is the same way, where it'slike they do have like gel
electrophoresis, they do talkabout RNA and DNA and give the
right base names.
Um, but then when it gets intowhat is actually happening to
humanity, like the way of theoutbreak, they're just like it's
(03:51):
kind of like a virus, and thenthey just expect people to
accept that.
SPEAKER_00 (03:54):
But to be honest, the premise is so interesting,
anyways.
I didn't really care.
So it starts with, right?
Yes, a satellite field.
SPEAKER_01 (04:01):
So I thought I was dealing with landman because you
remember that's just starts witha truck and a bunch of
windmills.
Right.
So there's someone who's drivingup and they get out and they're
shocked and they're like, youyou gotta be kidding me about
this, right?
They're like, this is bullshit.
And they're like, no, no, no.
We got this code from 600 lightyears away.
Yeah.
And it's telling us thisfour-coded information.
(04:22):
And it takes this other lady tobe like, it's actually four
different tiers.
So it's like four bits of likedifferent information at the
same time.
And then they played it outalmost like um rocket.
What what's that old uh guitarhero?
You know, where like look atlike a guitar hero.
Yes, they start talking aboutit.
They figure out that this isactually, I'll jump ahead, an
RNA strand that's being uhdeciphered across the universe.
(04:46):
And so they take it and thenthey start doing tests with it.
And a few months later, becausewe keep on seeing the days go
by, like the days till theapocalypse, um, and uh we see
them running gel electrophoresisand doing PCR tests with a bunch
of different mice, um, trying todo uh CRISPR, which is like uh
cutting out pieces of um RNA andthen like sticking them in,
(05:07):
seeing how it would um, I guess,uh pop propagate in the mouse.
Right and how it would affectthem.
And I guess they're not comingup with m with much.
They come in there.
I'll stick with the sciencestoryline for now.
And uh and everybody's sayingthe same thing.
This is not working.
We're not seeing a virus here.
And so they get into the lab andthey're about to gas these mice
or kill them.
Um, she was gonna give themcardiac sticks, which I assume
(05:29):
is just a way to kill the mice.
Um, and instead, they alreadysee that one is down.
So she goes in, they think it'sdead.
She looks in it, and then shetakes off her protective
equipment on her glove, which isreally dumb.
And that's how like any zombiemovie starts.
That's how, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:44):
When did you know?
Because uh obviously that wasthe first sign of like, oh no,
something's gonna go wrong, butwhen did you know that the world
was fucked?
Like the whole world.
Just then.
SPEAKER_01 (05:52):
Like as soon as the bite happened, obviously.
SPEAKER_00 (05:54):
Uh well, I knew I knew that again, things were
going to get bad.
I didn't think that the worldwas fucked until Karen Sony, the
guy who uh is in the Deadpoolmovies and everything, until he
kissed the janitor.
That's when I was like, oh no,we're in for like uh apocalyptic
level.
SPEAKER_01 (06:08):
Yeah, so the first person gets bit and it's like
immediate.
So that's where it's like unlikea virus, unlike bacteria,
anything that we've seen before,because it was so quick moving
and it took her over, and thenit was still able.
This is this is the thing thatconfuses me later on, is that
what's happening is that it'srewriting her DNA so that she's
able to have this psychic uhconnection with every other
(06:30):
human in the world.
But at that point, she would bethe only human in the world.
So is she connected to themouse?
Like that's the only otherperson with that rewritten code.
Yeah.
But what we've seen later on, orwhat we're led to believe, is
that no other species on theplanet has this interesting code
and that it's not receivable byany other species except for
(06:53):
humans.
Because we don't see themtalking Aquaman style to
dolphins in the episode inepisode two.
In fact, they're just trying topreserve the wildlife.
SPEAKER_00 (07:00):
It may have made more sense, and I understand
that that uh that probably themouse being alive was a big uh
hint to something that's goingto come, but it may have made
more sense had the mouse justbeen or and died, and then it
was like it was just kind ofpassing that on.
SPEAKER_01 (07:15):
I may have answered my own question too, because
they do say in episode two thatthey release all the animals in
the zoo.
And why would they do that?
Because obviously, if they'vebeen raised in captivity, they
couldn't survive, even if humanswere all being nice to them in
the outside world.
But if they are connected on thesame weird RNA-enabled strand uh
(07:35):
that that is rewritten theircode as well and made them
telepathic, then uh, orhive-minded, part of the hive
mind, then maybe it makes sensewhy they're all allowed to be
out and free.
That really confused me in thesecond episode.
I was like, they they even saidthere were a few maulings.
So if if it was the case thatthey were all on the same sphere
of mind, then why would therehave been maulings?
(07:57):
I don't think that this is across-species thing.
However, that's how it starts.
It starts with a mouse bitingthe human to get it into their
thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (08:05):
It always starts off with like a rabid beast.
Like I remember a contagion, itwas like a bat or something.
SPEAKER_01 (08:09):
Right.
But again, it's not like there'san evil thing that's happening
to the first lady.
So in her mind, I'm justwondering what's causing her to
infect other people becauseshe's the only one in there
right now.
Then when she connects the KarenSony guy, right, the other uh
doctor, and then he goes andthey start adding more and more
people, it makes more sense whythey adopt this sort of
(08:31):
utilitarian task force whereeverybody's working for the same
mission at the same time.
That swab scene was sodisgusting to me.
It was.
It was it was gross.
And that's where it's like,okay, I can understand what
they're doing.
They're trying, it's like ifCOVID was uh a hoax in that like
it actually had been.
That's that's the way thatpeople are imagining it when
they're like, okay, there was abig lab and they sent all these
(08:54):
COVID swabs out, and people wereeating donuts and infecting
themselves.
So, what's the other storylinewe get?
We get Carol, she's at a Barnesand Noble, she's doing a book
reading for what do you did youget what her name was called?
It was something of the Y Caro.
SPEAKER_00 (09:08):
No, it reminded me a lot of like Sarah J.
Moss's like Throne of Glass.
It's basically those type ofbooks.
Like it's supposed to be afantasy romance.
You got a lot of uh middle-agedwomen who are very, very
interested in these uh kidscharacters.
That I thought was a great jokebecause you never see like any
teens or any kids there.
It's just all moms.
SPEAKER_01 (09:27):
Except you also see, I think there was a standout
cameo with the guy fromSeverance.
SPEAKER_00 (09:31):
You know, I know I looked it up to see if that was
him.
It's not listed on as IMDB orWikipedia.
He looks so much.
But he did look a lot like him.
SPEAKER_01 (09:39):
He was in line, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (09:40):
There was it was very little of that interaction
at Barnes and Noble wasscripted.
A lot of them were just kind oftold what they should do, but a
lot of the lines.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (09:48):
Because they did cut around it, did a montage of just
the her experiences.
The guy brought a sword withhim, being like Don't don't
touch this, it's very sharp.
Uh-huh.
And uh and then she leaves withher agent, and we learn that A,
she is fed up with this workthat she's doing.
She finds it pretty crappy.
I guess she just likes makingpay a living, but at the same
(10:10):
time, it's not like her endgoal.
Her end goal is to write her ownbook or which she's already
started, something thechrysalis.
Um, and she also has arelationship with her agent,
Helen.
That is who she actually wrotethe book about, but she can't
say that in this day and age, Iguess.
And so she had flipped the sexesso that it would be more of a
traditional, uh, straight coupleum uh story.
SPEAKER_00 (10:32):
I think that's an homage to Vince Gilligan,
because Vince Gilligan, when hewas first conceiving the idea,
because he's been working onthis for like 10 years,
originally thought it was goingto be a guy.
Then he was just like, you knowwhat, I like Rhea Seahorn, and
then he uh gave her the script.
She signed on before he evenpitched the show to anyone.
SPEAKER_01 (10:47):
It also reminds me when he was talking about how
originally he wanted to makeWalter White into Wanda White
and that it was gonna be awoman, but now I'm just um yeah,
so it to me it felt as if, yeah,uh Vince Gilligan has hung out
with James Gunn just far toomuch because James Gunn loves
these brain monsters, the bigfish guy in Suicide Squad, the
(11:08):
butterflies in um uh Peacemaker.
Peacemaker and the worms inSlither.
It's always the same idea of ittaking over, but those are
usually parasites.
And this, from at least episodetwo onward, we're supposed to
believe that this is not aparasite.
It's in fact just every personon Earth has uploaded their
consciousness into this one biguh cloud brain that they're all
(11:31):
able to pull upon.
However, there are somedrawbacks.
So by the end of the firstepisode, everybody in the world
freezes in front of Carol,starts having little mini
seizures, right?
And she's unable to communicatewith anybody at all.
And so she goes to the hospitaland everybody's frozen.
And then she sees her, evenHelen, who she's trying to save,
(11:52):
uh, dies in front of her.
She tries to give her CPR um andcannot resuscitate her.
SPEAKER_00 (11:57):
Well, I think it's also very important because the
way that it's spread is it kindof reminds me of The Last of Us
almost, but is through a kiss,and the doctor who is infected
kisses.
SPEAKER_01 (12:07):
It doesn't, it doesn't spread through it, it
spreads through um any sort ofDNA getting into you, but that's
the quickest way.
Right.
It's just like mouth to mouth.
SPEAKER_00 (12:14):
And a doctor does kiss Carol, but Carol, much like
the main character in contagion,is kind of immune, at least as
of now.
SPEAKER_01 (12:21):
Yeah, another confusing premise is the first
time we see these, uh, the mousebite her, it it happens almost
instantaneously, you know, um,where she's infected and then
suddenly like her brain changesor like her DNA changes.
And the same thing happens withthe first set of people, the
army people.
But later on, it seems like whathappens is they must have adopt
uh adapted the um virus thingbecause everybody goes like
(12:45):
freaky seizure mode all at thesame time in the entire world.
So that must mean that theactual science has changed, that
they've created some way toincubate and so they've been
like dispersing it.
Because again, the days arecrawling by.
We know that all of this stuffwould have gone into people's
bodies by now, but they don't goinstant zombie mode, uh, you
(13:05):
know.
So I think it just waits until asingle second.
Maybe then a radio signal orsomething uh says right now, and
then everybody at the same timebecomes uh uh stuck in that
phase.
I guess that's to limitcasualties.
It also seems to cause almostone out of nine people on Earth
to die in one form or another.
I had a question whether or notthe reason why Helen dies is
(13:26):
because of that fall that shetakes when she has the seizure,
or if it's just that some peoplearen't capable of uploading
their brain without like goinginto brain bleed or something.
SPEAKER_00 (13:37):
The one out of nine thing reminded me a lot, the
leftovers.
And also, if it is what you'rekind of talking about, it's a
little bit like the bugs inWestworld.
I think it was just the factthat Helen Right from the fall.
I think it was just Helen fromthe fall that killed her.
SPEAKER_01 (13:48):
I because I don't think we did see other people
who were bleeding once they hadlike taken damage.
And like he said, when at thevery end, Carol is talking to
the man on the TV, the personwho is uh the high well, no one,
everybody is in charge, but hehas a suit on and he was like,
and I was intact.
They used the word intact,meaning that there are just so
(14:08):
many people who during that timeuh didn't come out of it the
right way.
SPEAKER_00 (14:13):
Davis Davis Taffler was his name.
The actor Peter Bergman wasintroduced to Vince Gilligan by
Brian Cranston.
He actually, I think, wasprobably my favorite character
out of the two episodes, eventhough he's only in that one.
SPEAKER_01 (14:24):
Yeah, I don't think he's coming back because that's
the whole point.
We will be so in the secondepisode.
So Carol has this epiphany ofwhat's like going on.
It's kind of just told to herstraight out.
She's like, is this an alieninvasion?
They're like, no.
What's happened is that ourbrains are all one now and we
are so happy, and you can liveyour own life.
We don't begrudge you.
They don't decide to stick herinto any sort of like it I would
(14:47):
understand it almost if theystuck her into a zoo.
SPEAKER_00 (14:49):
Because like that, A, that would be like
Slaughterhouse Five.
SPEAKER_01 (14:52):
And B, I do not not to not for entertainment
purposes, just for her ownsafety.
And then what we learn inepisode two is for their safety
as well.
If they cannot make decisions,if they cannot handle stress
from one individual, then youwould think that they would be
protective enough that theywould try to quarantine that
person and not just abide bytheir everywoman wish.
SPEAKER_00 (15:15):
I did, I did wonder, because she's like uh kind of
evoking a lot of stress by theend of the first episode, with
only 11 people in the world.
The fact that everyone is inunison was it 13?
Yes.
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (15:28):
Well, with it's 11 others but her, but then they
found out there was a 12th inthe line in the second episode.
SPEAKER_00 (15:33):
And then there's like five others that can speak
English, and those are the fiveshe wants to meet with.
I was a little surprised.
I was like, you don't have Iunderstand that this is a new
virus and and things are goingto be figured out, but they
can't deal with the fact thatshe's just getting so angry to
them that they have to everyoneflips into a seizure.
SPEAKER_01 (15:49):
So this is all episode two.
Episode one, I just want to say,is probably just like probably
an eight or a nine to me.
Like it's just a solid, freaky,twilight zone-ish episode of TV.
And at the end, they're kind oflike, we're going to make you
one of us.
And she's like, What if I sayno?
And they're like, You don'tunderstand.
It's great.
And then she freaks out a littlebit because she's like, Holy
(16:09):
shit, they're not gonna acceptmy no when they do perfect the
science here.
Again, the science is kind ofcrazy.
The gene therapy, you reallyhave to just like the idea that
they can create some physicalchannel, a continuous, like high
bandwidth communication betweenbrains, uh, whether it be like
electrical, molecular, EM, whathave you.
(16:30):
Uh, it's it's such a farstretch.
SPEAKER_00 (16:33):
But I was able to get uh I was able to kind of
like write that off because Iwas just enjoying the
atmosphere.
I think my favorite shot is whenall the cars kind of in
synchronicity, like end upleaving because she wants
everyone to leave.
SPEAKER_01 (16:46):
Yeah, I would say severance is almost the exact
opposite of this, because inthat everyone's persona is
doubled, maybe even moretripled.
You know, like you have a bunchof different severed people.
In this, it's all about bringingthem all together.
You know, what happens if inseverance they get infected with
this puppy?
Then I mean, obviously,everybody would just act like a
(17:08):
freaking drone, like they do inthe second episode.
But at the same time, then AdamScott's all his different
identities would be one.
It's very much like humans, too,I thought, you know, because I
guess yes.
Like the roboticness when youwere bringing up Westworld and
how, like, yeah, usually we'rethinking about people being
encoded or robots being encodedthrough technology, but this is
more about our own code.
(17:29):
And it's just ironic becausethat one guy passed away, Watson
passed away over the last coupleof days, who had helped uh like
coin or figure out how DNAworked, the structure of DNA.
Episode two is called PirateLady.
And this is the one, it's calledPirate Lady because the book
that Carol had written, right?
The Waitara book, right, withthe main character, the dude in
(17:50):
that, this is like the ladyversion of that.
And they thought that it wouldbe the best version to talk to
her.
And by the end of the episode,she does sort of fall in love
with this character.
SPEAKER_00 (18:00):
So you think that's where it's going?
SPEAKER_01 (18:02):
You think that like that's where no, I don't know
yet.
But episode two, I have a lotmore issues with than episode
one.
Episode one, I felt kind of likeyou could fill in the gaps with
your own like headcanon.
But by episode two, where theystart giving you answers, is
where even more questions comeabout.
SPEAKER_00 (18:16):
And that's that's where it is.
It's like episode one kind ofgave you the premise, but they
really tried to expand it inepisode two.
And I give the show props for atleast not kind of waiting for us
to see the other people that uhthat have this rare thing where
they're not getting infected.
But when you start trying toanswer things and the answers
just really don't compute,that's when you run into some
problems.
SPEAKER_01 (18:36):
When we talk about answers that don't compute,
let's let's get into that.
So we're led to believe thateverybody is now one
consciousness, right?
Yeah.
And they all kind of worktogether.
That's what we see in the firstscene.
And I really like the shots thatthey did where it would be like
10 minutes where you just kindof watch people go about their
day doing activities, but clearas day to anybody who's watching
(18:57):
it that they all know what'sgoing on.
Very little dialogue, they don'thave to speak to each other to
know.
Um, but but when it comes downto the decision making as to how
their society works, I get it'ssupposed to be utilitarian,
right?
Everybody is supposed to workfor everyone's good, right?
Yeah, and and so they've chosento be vegetarian.
But I if they did a popular voteof everyone in the world, would
(19:21):
we really choose to be vegetvegetarian?
Like that's kind of a strangeone to me.
And then it says you that theywouldn't hurt a fly.
Like you you would try not to,not even an insect.
If you did a popular vote againof everybody getting stuck in
one person's head, would theyreally agree on not hurting a
fly?
SPEAKER_00 (19:40):
I think that that's more just kind of symbolism
because it's like vegetarians isis all about like uh kind of you
know, these other species.
SPEAKER_01 (19:49):
So, like there's yes, as much as they want to
say, we're everyone, you don'tunderstand, we're not being
invaded.
It does feel like there is anunderlying consciousness that
was sent forth from outer space,which is kind of guiding the
principles to which this new uhrace of humanity is dealing
with.
So, like with Carol's fear, Ifeel like some of the stuff
(20:12):
she's like, Oh, I just want toget back to normal, like that's
a little ridiculous at thispoint.
But her fear that this isn't allit's made out to be, I feel like
that's grounded because there'sno reason why if everybody was
working together, they would bethis way, but especially the way
that they're treating thesepeople.
So we see Carol get mad atPirate Lady, right?
(20:34):
Yeah, and she says, uh uh, youguys fuck this all up, right?
Like it's your fault.
And they freeze again, and thiscauses 11 million people to die.
Yeah.
This is a fool me once scenario.
Once she does that one time andthey realize how weak they are,
or everyone in the worldrealizes how weak they are, if
they still consider life to beprecious, which they tend to say
(20:54):
that they do, they won't evenhurt a lobster.
That would be the moment whereyou say, okay, we cannot be
around Carol.
We cannot be around people whowe cannot control.
And also, it doesn't really seemlike a very safe um RNA virus to
be sending overseas to otherworlds if they can be shocked or
flummoxed or or taken out byjust some random person yelling
(21:15):
at them.
SPEAKER_00 (21:16):
Well, it's it's obviously setting up like uh I
feel like hints for later on,maybe how these people are going
to be defeated or how thesealiens are going to be defeated.
But I agree with you.
The second that I learned that11 million people died from by
this six-second breakout, I waslike, that's that's thin skin.
SPEAKER_01 (21:32):
It's less about the fact that they died the first
time.
It's the fact that then allowedher to keep on just being around
them, you know, like kept oncalling the shots.
How is that evolutionaryhelpful?
And also, how is it like howdoes it make humanity better if
like we're losing more people tothat than we were when we were
all independent personalities?
They are slaves, as much as uhZosha, I think is his pirate
(21:55):
lady's name, yeah, uh says thatthey're not.
And and also like I just they'reincapable of making decisions
because they don't want to hurtanybody's feelings.
That's what they say later on.
And this just it doesn't feellike they made the decision to
infect everybody.
They made the decision to takeover things and kill a hell of a
number of people.
So, how are they able to makethat decision and then not like
(22:18):
the consequences of 13 randoswho they they could easily just
muscle bound into a small roomand keep them alive, probably
not at the happiest crew.
But that's better than whoringout like the population and and
and giving out like prostitutesto that one guy.
Because this is all getting intolike the weeds of the the
mentality of the 13 remainderremaining people.
(22:41):
But that's another thing is likeif she is a genetic uh uh
rarity, you would think thatsomeone in her family would be
more likely to have that samerarity than randomly 13 people
across the globe.
Like I I definitely believe thatthere would be random people
from a bunch of continents.
However, the idea that no onewould be related to anyone else
(23:04):
when they have that genome, liketheir their whole genome.
SPEAKER_00 (23:07):
Because we see their family, we see the law of their
family and they are all infectedby it.
SPEAKER_01 (23:12):
I'm saying if like you have the chances of someone
else in your family having agenetic illness are like
amplified times crazy if oneperson has it, right?
In your in your direct family.
So the idea that none of thesepeople have a relative who also
experienced that uh non-abilityto conform into this alien
species or this uh this newversion of humanity surprised
(23:34):
me.
Overall, though, it seemed likethe ending was a little clunky
to me because she scaredeverybody off.
The five people that she hadaccrued to try to be like, okay,
we got to do something aboutthis.
Right.
By the time that she causedeverybody, everybody else on
earth to have another seizure,another however million people
were going to die from that,everybody was kind of like, oh,
we're out of here, you know?
And the only one who stayedalong was the guy who wanted to
(23:56):
go to Vegas.
I think his name is KumbaDiamate in the show.
By that time, it it was more ofa comedy, and it felt like the
it's like Last Man on Earthstyle comedy, where the bigger
decision for her was not what dowe do about humanity now, but it
was more whether or not I got tokeep my own personal assistant
Zosha with me.
Because she and she could havejust walked up to the pilots
(24:17):
because that's how they leftthings when she saw Zosha and
this guy who's going to LA or toLas Vegas, um, getting on the
plane together.
She could have gone over to thepilot and said, Hey, could Zosha
come back?
And immediately through ifthey're all connected, yeah.
They are all connected.
Yeah, Zosha would have justwalked off the plane.
Instead, we see like this kindof over-the-top scene where she
demands the plane stop and sheruns out in front of the other
plane.
SPEAKER_00 (24:38):
Yeah, arms.
SPEAKER_01 (24:38):
Why is that necessary?
SPEAKER_00 (24:40):
It didn't make a lot of sense.
I'm hoping that not a lot of uhthose type of scenes happen
again because yeah, when youhave everyone connected, that's
kind of what makes this seriescool.
And it seemed like it almostforgot that in the final five
minutes.
What would your overall score befor this?
SPEAKER_01 (24:55):
For episode one, it was like an eight or a nine for
episode two.
I would bring that down to likea six.
Still, still fun to watch, butlike I was definitely put off by
a lot of the answers that theywere giving us.
I would compare it to WestworldUtopia, Twilight Zone with uh
pod people from Invasion of theBody Snatchers.
Also, it felt like a little bitlike weekend at Bernie's in the
first episode, where she justkept on dragging Helen around
(25:16):
her dead body.
Even in the second episode, shelooks over and she sees Helen
just on the ground.
SPEAKER_00 (25:20):
I thought that Primal uh was a good comparison
as well, because again, there isdialogue in the two episodes,
but there's definitely a lack ofit.
It's supposed to be told morejust kind of, I think, through
shots and kind of emotional uhexchanges.
But the series has receivedcritical acclaim.
Uh it has a nine on IMDB, 100%on Raw and Tomatoes, deadline
(25:41):
said of the pilot, thePowerhouse pilot is one of 25's
most impressive TV episodes.
SPEAKER_01 (25:47):
Yeah, so you could put that in the same place with
like Alien and those type ofthings.
We'll definitely get into ourbest of pretty soon because we
are in November at this point.
I will also say for Apple, likeit falls into their, they're
better usually with sci-fishows.
For all mankind, Severance,Foundation, Murderbot.
I enjoyed all at least someseasons of those.
Um, invasion is not my thing,but like for the most part,
(26:09):
Apple knows how to hit theseoff.
And with Vince Gilligan at thehelm, uh, just like with Better
Call Saul, episode two could bejust like one of the better
calls episodes I didn't like.
And then he was able to liketurn it all around.
SPEAKER_00 (26:20):
I think I think it is because Collider gave the
series a 10 out of 10.
BBC called it one of 2025's mostsmartest shows.
SPEAKER_01 (26:27):
And that's Oh, it's smart.
SPEAKER_00 (26:28):
Yeah, The Guardian gave called the show Incredible,
but then gave it four out offive stars.
So I think that like I'm I'mwilling to say that episode two,
and I'm hoping this is the case,was just kind of weak, and that
the rest of the episodes kind ofmake up for it.
SPEAKER_01 (26:42):
Just by giving us better answers or understanding,
I I just don't see how this thisspecies is so great.
Like, if they didn't have thisweird stress-related response
where they all kind of freakout, then it would be a whole
different type of show.
But I think this is to show usthe weakness of this uh new this
(27:02):
new life form.
SPEAKER_00 (27:03):
I just wish that the that if they did have this, it
was a stronger thing than thefact that uh Carol just gets mad
at them and suddenly they can'thandle it.
SPEAKER_01 (27:12):
If there was like continually keeps her stress at
that point where it's like evenafter the first time, the second
time, and she's like, it's nevergonna happen again.
Then she's yelling in front ofit, and it takes the guy going
to Vegas.
I don't understand though whythey keep on giving that guy
like people who are just gonnalike sleep with him.
Like it's still it's stillhumans, right?
Like it's still their brains.
And except you're sleeping withthe entire range of humanity.
SPEAKER_00 (27:34):
Well, I think what it was was that the guy was, at
least this is what I got, andmaybe uh they'll explain it
later.
But I think he was normal.
And then when he heard fromwhoever that uh, you know, he
just had to dial zero foranything, he was like, I'm just
gonna take this to the extreme,get a plane.
SPEAKER_01 (27:48):
He's living up his his genie wish.
Like I get his character.
I just don't understand whythey're abiding by it.
Why they're not like, yeah,we're not gonna do that.
Like they won't make himlobster, but they'll sleep with
him, with any woman that hewants.
He just asks for.
Like that doesn't, it doesn'tequate, you know?
It feels like it's working bytwo different sorts of rules.
(28:09):
And and like if for the sake ofthe television show, for me to
understand it, I just want it tomake sense.
Anything else you want to sayabout it?
SPEAKER_00 (28:15):
I will give the series a seven and a half out of
ten.
First episode nine, secondepisode six.
So I'm pushing both your scores.
SPEAKER_01 (28:22):
Yeah, that's that's that works.
It just means we're like-mindedon the situation.
Um, do you think that you wouldwant to live in this world?
SPEAKER_00 (28:28):
No.
I was a little surprised thoughthat everyone and I mean
everyone out of the six peoplethat she spoke to, including
yourself, that they that therewasn't one that was like, yeah,
you know what, we probablyshouldn't be doing this.
We we shouldn't be uh we shouldtry and fight this.
Because that's that's exactlywhere I would be.
SPEAKER_01 (28:45):
It's a losing battle.
I mean, clearly it's it's a lostbattle.
So I didn't understand her herthing of like, oh, who has a
background in biology?
As if they were going to beatout what, eight, nine million
people time billion people uh inone person in every single
person's head.
Um, yeah, no, I I have no ideawhere it's going.
(29:05):
So that's fun.
So thanks for listening.
We'll see you on the nextepisode.
Hope you enjoyed this one.
Bye.
Bye.
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