ONE MAJOR ISSUE Plaguing Modern Day UFOlogy...The Contradictory Conundrum

Something That has Been At the top of my to do list lately, is to adress the biggest issues i see in modern ufology- from Content creators, and Podcasters- to journalists and "influencer" Social Media Accounts. #ufoX #UFOtwitter #UFOnews

this episode is more visual- if you ant the optimized experience watch on youtube 



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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:36):
Welcome back to Total Disclosure, where I and we chase
the signals, the questions, the shadows, and never take trust
me at face value. I'm your host, Ty Roberts, and
on this special presentation, I wanted to clear the air

(00:56):
on an issue that I've seen very frequently in the
UFO community. For better or worse, We're diving into a
story that's equal parts heartbreaking, frustrating, and all too familiar
in this vast world that we call ufology. Now, this
problem is much bigger than just the example that I'm

(01:17):
about to give, the contradiction the same people who demand
transparency turning around and being as vague as possible, in
this case, a woman many admire Kelly Chase, the brilliantly
sharp mind behind the UFO rabbit Hole podcast now rebranded
as Cosmosis. Kelly's known for her rigorous no bs takes

(01:42):
on the phenomenon. She's interviewed whistleblowers, dissected declassified docs, and
called out the grift, which I have tremendous respect for.
But in the following video you'll see her last episode
of the UFO rabbit Hole, writing the lack of true
evidence and a lot of quote unquote stories that make

(02:02):
up the UFO narrative. Let's take a listen, be.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
Open about what I see, and I leave it to
you to decide what you think about it. For me,
the unraveling of the disclosure narrative can be traced back
to Carl Nell's presentation at the first Soul Foundation Symposium,
which I attended in November twenty twenty three. There has
been a lot of conversation centered around Nell's talk. For example,
much was made of his comments about the potential for

(02:26):
catastrophic disclosure, which quickly entered the lexicon of the UFO community.
But what I find remarkable is that as much as
people give lip service to that presentation, very few of
those same people seem to have integrated what he said
into their understanding of the disclosure movement as a whole.
They took the parts that made for good clickbait or
that confirmed their desire for sudden, an ambiguous disclosure, and

(02:48):
generally ignored the rest.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
I think that's a mistake.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
If you aren't familiar with Carl Nell, he's a retired
Army colonel, aerospace executive, and corporate strategist who has worked
with organizations like Bell Labs, Lockheed Martin, and a slew
of other Fortune five hundred companies. In short, he's one
of the highest profile members of the military intelligence community
to have stepped forward to weigh in on disclosure and
in Maamin. His talk at SOUL was one of the

(03:12):
single most important moments in the conversation thus far and
offered rare insights into how the intelligence community is approaching
the topic of UAP transparency. I want to go through
some of the main points of that presentation and why
I think there's The disclosures that we've gotten from whistleblowers
so far have come from known and in most cases
current members of the intelligence community. Most if not all

(03:33):
of them still hold high level security clearances and still work,
whether directly or as contractors for the DoD or for
aerospace defense companies. In many cases it's both, and the
information shared with us by those whistleblowers is the information
that has been approved by the DoD through DOOPSERDOPSER, or
the Defense Office of Pre Publication and Security Review, is

(03:55):
the US Department of Defense office responsible for reviewing and
approving information before it's publicly released to ensure it does
not compromise national security. So basically they have said only
what the DoD has said they are allowed to say,
which is why I don't think that the whistleblowers that
have come forward thus far represent a threat of catastrophic disclosure.
It's hard to think of any other cases of whistle

(04:17):
blowing in either the private or public sector where whistleblowers
remained in such good standing within the organizations that they
were blowing the whistle on. So at the very least,
these are whistleblowers who are more than willing to play
by the rules. The fact that it's so controversial to
even acknowledge these basic truths is because the disclosure narrative
is doing exactly the things that it's supposed to do.

(04:38):
It's getting people invested in a story and in personalities
that they want to believe in enough to not just
overcome cognitive dissonance, but to deputize them to help further
this narrative. If you want to see how absolute and
insidious the narrative control is, just try this little experiment.
Log on to Reddit or x and try posting a
direct quote about lou Elizondo in his own words from

(05:00):
his own book, explaining that he was recruited into ASAP
by James Lukatski to run counter intelligence for the program
without adding any further commentary, and see how that goes
for you. It's a fact about Lou that we only
know because he told us, and yet no one is
allowed to say it, much less raise any kind of
legitimate questions about what it might actually mean, because those

(05:20):
are questions that no one really wants to know the
answer to. So am I saying that I think all
whistleblowers are liars who are working within a DoD campaign
plan for the purpose of controlled disclosure. Not exactly. I
suspect it's far more complicated than that. It's easy and
often necessary to talk about entities like the intelligence community
or the Department of Defense as though they are monoliths,

(05:43):
but they're clearly not. Over one million people are employed
by the Department of Defense and over four million people
hold security clearances. Within those millions, there are countless warring
factions and all kinds of different objectives. Nothing about what
is happening is straightforward, and I certainly don't out the
possibility that there are good faith whistleblowers who are taking

(06:03):
on considerable risk to do what they think is right.
In fact, I'd be surprised if that weren't the case.
But at the same time, I'm no longer willing to
overlook the glaring evidence that the disclosure narrative, at least
as it's been presented to the public, is largely a
fabrication when you look at what's happening objectively, I think
that's hard to deny, And though I'll admit to experiencing

(06:24):
a significant amount of disillusion and weathering a long series
of dark knights of the soul over that realization, I
ultimately don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. I could
wax poetic for hours about the different ways to read
this situation, how the tangled web of alliances, agendas, and
competing interests could explain why things have unfolded the way
that they have without requiring that everyone involved be a

(06:47):
mustache twisting villain. But at the end of the day,
that's all speculation. The truth is I don't actually know
what's going on, and neither do you, And that's the point.
Whatever the disclosure movement is, whatever teams the various experts
and whistleblowers ultimately play for this is not a game
that we get to play. We don't even get to

(07:09):
know the rules. We're just spectators watching a performance where
we have no way of knowing who's actually pulling the strings.
And frankly, I wouldn't even want to. I've seen enough
at this point to know that there are aspects of
this that are very dark, very disturbing, and absolutely dangerous
for anyone who wanders too close. I don't believe that
it's possible to get real answers from these people anyways,

(07:31):
so why would I bother. To be honest, I'm just
no longer interested. But that's not to say that I
don't still believe in certain aspects of this fight. I
still believe that some form of controlled disclosure, however imperfect,
probably does some good, at least in terms of moving
the needle of public acceptance forward toward a broader reality.

(07:52):
I also still fundamentally believe that holding our government accountable
for how it spends our money and demanding greater transparency,
especially on topics that pertain to our understanding of the cosmos,
is a very worthy cause, even if true transparency is
something we can only ever approach asymptotically. So you'll probably
still see me lend my voice and my support to

(08:13):
that world as it makes sense for me to do
so if any of them still want to talk to
me after this episode. But make no mistake, I am
over disclosure.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
Over disclosure. And while I do agree with many of
Kelly's points and sentiments, and I think we can all,
in fact, I know we can all in the UFO
community relate to what she's saying and the truth that
she is speaking. But just weeks ago, just weeks ago,

(08:44):
she drops a bombshell that left the UFO community and
much many others like me a bit confused. A personal
shadowy operation attack so traumatic it eclipsed sexual assault, kidnapping,
losing a parent, all rolled into one, no evidence, no names,

(09:04):
just her words, which again would be fine and not
out of the norm. In fact, it's usually what we get. However,
given who she is and what she just said in
her last episode while she was rebranding, it was jarring
the contradiction, and when she tried to unpack it in
an AMA, the stream cut off right on cue coincidence

(09:25):
or a techlitch, something straight out of the playbooker she
herself is warning us about. I really want to stress
that this is only one example. It's Kelly's story, but
it's a mirror to the UFO community's biggest blind spot,
our addiction to unverified trauma and experiences dressed up as truths.

(09:45):
Why do we demand evidence from the government but swallow
trust me from our own. Let's unpack this because if
we're ever going to get real disclosure, whatever that means,
it starts with owning our own faults contradictions.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
Day and I had just started in the fall of
twenty twenty three, something happened, something bad. Jay and I
had just started production on our docu series Cosmosis UFOs
and a New Reality, and it felt like there was
an endless field of possibility laid out in front of us.
We had something to say, and we had each built
our own individual platforms to be able to say it.

(10:24):
We were running on adrenaline inspiration, and we felt like
we were exactly where we were supposed to be. And then,
like a thunderbolt out of the sky, it all came
to a screeching halt. Without ever intending to, we saw
behind the curtain. We wandered too close to something we
didn't understand, and we got burned badly. I'm not someone

(10:48):
who's unfamiliar with trauma. I was the victim of sexual
violence when I was young. I was kidnapped while traveling
in Colombia. I held my father's hand while he took
his last breath decades too soon. What happened was worse
than all of those things combined.

Speaker 3 (11:06):
It was worse not just because of the severity of
what had happened, but because it showed me a kind
of darkness that I didn't know existed. Jay has described
the world that we found ourselves in in the aftermath
of those events as kafka esque, and I think that's
the perfect word.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
If you're unfamiliar. The term kofka esque refers to us.
But what happened to us was a surprisingly complex operation
that evolved seemingly a lot of people. It was physical,
This was something that these weren't threats. There was no threat.
It would have been nice you've gotten a threat.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
First I give a.

Speaker 2 (11:49):
Girl heads up, like all stop, like just let me know.
It would have been nice to have gotten threat. And
you know, in terms of I think it's very fair
for people to ask, you know, is this something You
can't just say this because like what if somebody else
stumbles into the same thing. I will say that what

(12:10):
happened was.

Speaker 3 (12:11):
So At the top, well it says it's still live,
and then down here.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
Are you serious? See very different tone from start video
to finish video. First we're talking about how bad, how gruesome,
how it was worse than sexual abuse, being kidnapped, and
losing a parent all in one. And I know we
all process grieve differently. I understand that we all process

(12:49):
emotions differently. But I did hold my mother's hand she
took her last breath, jokingly laugh about it. Oh, just
send a warning. I would have stopped the rides of
a skeptical voice. Kelly Chase didn't stumble into ufology. She
built a platform on skepticism wrapped in curiosity, launching the

(13:10):
UFO rabbit Hole in twenty twenty one. She turned it
into a top forty science podcast for the most part,
scripted beautifully told over one hundred episodes, bending experience her stories,
historical deep dots, and brutal takedowns of hype. Remember her
episodes on the secret onion of government secrecy, or her

(13:32):
keynote at Contact in the Desert on UFO Narrative Wars,
where she laid bare how intelligence ops weaponized belief itself.
Kelly wasn't chasing clout. She co founded on Tocolips, produced
the docuseries Ufo Revolution for twob and even starred in Cosmosis,
usually a studying exploration of non human intelligence that hits

(13:54):
streaming in twenty twenty five. Her vibe not non first
his stories but grounded, rebranded to Cosmosis. Why, in her
own words from the final rabbit Hole episode, that you
just heard modern neuthology had become theater, a circus of trust,
me bro claims, edited clips, loyalty tests and group chats,

(14:15):
and influencers peddling unfalsifiable lore. She stepped back disclosure narrative
the Washington whistleblower circuits to focus on the raw human
side of encounters. Ufology and disclosure aren't the same, she
posted on February twenty sixth I'm not leaving, just done

(14:36):
with the personalities and the noise. It was a seemingly
mic drop moment. Fans cheered, critics even nodded. Kelly was
positioning herself as the antidote to the echo chamber evidence
over emotion, patterns over personalities. The bombshell Fall twenty twenty

(14:58):
three and the Unseen assault. Fast forward to October thirty first,
twenty twenty five Halloween. Fittingly, Kelly drops a video on
X in her Cosmosis Origins episode. I never thought I'd
talk about this, but silence sounds like consent. She reveals

(15:20):
that in Fall twenty twenty three, she and co host
J Christopher King got too close to the machinery of
institutional secrecy. What followed well a nefarious UFO disclosure, focused
intelligence operation, not threats or grooming, physical, and as serious

(15:42):
as it gets. In a follow up clip shared widely,
she says it was worse than being sexually assaulted, kidnapped,
and holding her father's hand as he died combined the
impact life altering. She backed away from the field. She
stayed quiet to protect the loved ones and watch people

(16:03):
assume she still backed things and people. I absolutely don't belief.
Ufology is mostly distraction, a laser pointer that keeps us
chasing our tails, chasing the shadows. The phenomenon is alive
in us, but secrecy manipulates us into distrusting our own eyes.

(16:30):
That's powerful stuff. It's raw, but here's a rub. There's
no specifics, no timeline beyond fall twenty twenty three. No
evidence to suggest that this actually happened, not even a
redacted email or witness nod other than our co hosts,
which again is just fine, but given who you are,

(16:51):
I think a little bit more is warranted. Just her
voice trembling but resolute, and in a community she once
roasted for exactly this, The trust me Trava dumps without receipts.
It landed like a gut bunch what happened to Kelly Chase.
So then there's the AMA lights out at a critical moment.

(17:14):
I feel like Kelly almost knew, like the questions were coming.
On November tenth, she and Jay announced a live AMA
on the Cosmosis YouTube channel Thursday, November thirteenth, six pm Eastern.
Ask us anything they posted, thirty percent was going to
be from Patreon, the rest from socials. They just asked

(17:36):
that you kept it respectful. Hundreds tuned in, the chat buzzed.
They fielded queries on Cosmosis experience, their safety, and then
they got into the attack as they knew they would,
and right as Kelly dives into details on the question

(17:56):
everyone wanted answered, stream cuts black silence. Her follow up
on x Post at midnight November fourteenth, our live stream
cut off. Everything looked good on our end, which I
did show you in that video. We're having weird tech
issues now and we're honestly a little creeped out again,

(18:19):
leaning in to the idea that someone is tampering with
her technology. They promised an update in the morning, but
by the next day she joined a Twitter space hosted
by Tupa and Red Panda Kuala, elaborating further on the
nudge into nefarious operation, and it's followed. Listeners called her

(18:42):
articulate and graceful, but the cutoff lingered like a bad
omen a techlitch. YouTube's finicky. Sure, riverside all of the
stream yards. They can all be finicky, but in ufology,
where every static burst is a sign it fueled the fire,

(19:02):
come on, I mean, it's it's so over the top.
Fans rallied, they silenced her, Skeptics rolled their eyes. Convenient
timing tell yourself leaned into the unease, tying it back
to her warnings about counterintelligence flooding narratives with chaos, the contradiction,

(19:23):
and I think why it hits so hard and what
it says about US trauma. It's not debate club, it's
a topic for debate. You don't prove violation with a
Foier request. And in a field riddled with intelligence community,
adjacent grifters, signal chats, vetting podcasts, loyalty tests, she nailed

(19:44):
that all in a twenty twenty five spaced out radio clip.
Her story. It does scream validity. If anyone's ever earned
our ear, it's her. That's the knife twist. This is
exactly the trust me style she declared and decried a
couple of years ago, was the reason she was backing

(20:04):
away the UFO narrative wars. She a viscerated how secrecy
uses half truce, character hits and unfalse viable claims to
engineer confusion. Gatekeepers aren't hiding the facts, they're scripting the show.
Yet here she is post rebrand delivering a claim. And

(20:24):
it's more theatrical than an X Files cold open. It's
worse than an assault, a kidnapping, and a parental loss.
Why compare it to that if not to tuget people's hearts,
at their emotional core, at their visceral attitudes. It's vivid, unverifiable,

(20:45):
the AMA cut off. It could just be that it
was all technical glitch. But till then lean into it,
you know is going to add fuel to the fire.
This isn't a Kelly takedown. I want to make that
very clear. It's a symptom uphologies contradiction once so deep,
I've been guilty of it. We rage at NASA's no

(21:08):
evidence dodges, but lapp experience or sagas without a single
corroborating pixel. Whistleblowers like Grute get congressional seats on testimony alone.
Influencers block critics for asking show your work it is,
and it has become an echo chamber fuel a belief

(21:29):
as battleground where doubt is attacking heroes. As one defender
tweeted at Kelly in May twenty twenty five, the cost
credibility erosion when trust me becomes currency, real signals drown
and noise. Kelly's pivot to phenomenon over politics was brilliant

(21:52):
until now it pulled her back. It pulled her back.
In fact, it reminds us even the sharpest voices can
slip and fall into the trap, and if we're not vigilant,
the shadows win. So what now, Grace for Kelly, She's
human healing in public. She puts herself out there. But

(22:14):
let's use this as a wake up demand better from
not just our peers, but ourselves. Cross check claims, support
platforms like on Toco, lips that amplify experiencers with safeguard,
and in Total Disclosures corner, we're doubling down on evidence
first storytelling, Got a tip, a doc, hit the comments

(22:39):
or dm me. Together we filter the static. If this resonates,
smash the like button, subscribe and share with your friends
and family. Let's build a community that chases true, not tales.
This is total disclosure. And again, this is not an
attack on Kelly. It's just the latest in the long line.

Speaker 3 (23:00):
Mm hmm

Speaker 1 (23:57):
Yeah