240 - Latricia White and Lee & Chance Wackerhagen - Trace Evidence

Episode Transcript
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(00:09):
Two days after Christmas of nineteen ninetythree, thirty eight year old Latricia White
was found shot to death in bedat her rural central Texas home. While
investigators quickly determined that the nurse andmother of two had been killed in her
sleep, they could not account forher living boyfriend, Lee Walker Hagen,
and his nine year old son Chance. Three days later, after finding Lee's

(00:34):
truck abandoned Denis Austin with blood inthe bed, authorities obtained a warrant charging
him with first degree murder. Itwas simple. Investigators thought the couple had
argued, and after murdering Latricia,Lee had fled and committed a non custodial
abduction of his son. For morethan twenty years, that is exactly as

(00:56):
the case remained. However, inMay of twenty six sixteen, the Texas
Rangers released a statement that completely turnedthe case on its head. No longer
was Lee the prime suspect, andinstead they now believed that both he and
Chance had likely been killed the sameday as Latricia. As it turned out,

(01:17):
there was another possible suspect who theoriginal investigators had completely ignored for reasons
that no one can yet understand Latricia'sex husband, with whom she'd had a
hostile divorce and was at the timeengaged in a bitter custody dispute. This
is Trace Evidence, Episode two forty, the Murder of Leatricia White and the

(01:40):
Disappearances of Lee and chance Walkerhagen.Welcome to Trace Evidence. I'm your host
Stephen Pacheco. Today we examine amysterious and heartbreaking crime that left a young
mother they're dead, and a fatherand son missing and later presumed killed.

(02:05):
It's a frustrating case filled with rumorsand speculation, all constructed on the shaky
foundations of a half hearted and poorlyconducted investigation. This is episode two forty,
The Murder of Latricia White and theDisappearance of Lee and chance Walkerhagen.

(02:30):
Latricia Gail White was born on ThursdayNovember tenth, nineteen fifty five, in
Austin, Texas, to parents Jackand Susan. Latricia was the White's first
child, though they would later haveanother daughter, making Leatricia an older sister,
a role friends and family say shereveled in as a youngster, and
even into her adult years. Latriciawas a sweet, kind and caring child

(02:54):
who showed and expressed an interest andaffinity towards helping others whenever she saw the
opportunity. In an interview with kx An Austin, Susan noted that her
daughter had always just been that way, saying, quote, she was a
very sweet girl, very soft hearted, gentle. She loved to help people,

(03:15):
and she would just do about anythingfor most anybody end quote. Though
born in Austin, Letricia would spendmuch of her life living south of Travis
County in and around Lockhart, asmaller city which functions as the seat of
Caldwell County. She would go onto attend Lockhart High School, where she
performed well academically and was involved inseveral clubs and groups. It was during

(03:38):
her time at Lockhart that she wouldmeet and eventually get into a relationship with
an older student, Lee Herman WalkerHagen Junior, who frequently went by his
nickname Dub Dub. Dub was bornon Saturday, September nineteenth, nineteen fifty
three, in Caldwell County to parentsMargaret and Lee Herman. Dubb had two

(04:01):
older sisters and would be the WalkerHoggins last born child, and thus his
father frequently referred to him as junior. Dub grew up predominantly in the area
of Maxwell, an unincorporated community inCaldwell County, where his father owned and
operated a large farm. Over theyears, houses would be erected on some

(04:23):
of the family property, allowing forrelatives to live close to one another in
the wide open country just off ValleyWay Drive, approximately eleven miles west of
Lockhart. Dubb has been described byfriends and family as a caring, fun
loving guy. Despite his reputation asa quiet and polite person, strangers could

(04:43):
easily be intimidated, as by histeenage years, Dub cut an imposing figure,
standing at approximately six feet four inchestall. When he and Letricia came
together at Lockhart High there was amutual attraction that quickly developed into young love.
However, the world had different plansin store for the young couple,
as following Dubb's graduation, they woulddrift apart and their romance would come to

(05:08):
an amicable, but no less disappointingend. In June of nineteen seventy four,
when she was eighteen years old,Latricia married for the first time to
a man named David Roger. Themarriage would be short lived, with the
two having a daughter before ultimately divorcingin September of seventy seven after just over

(05:28):
three years. A young mother,Leatricia never lost focus on her career goals
and would enter a nursing program,which seemed to fit together perfectly with her
tendency towards helping others and her appreciationof service oriented careers, somewhat mirroring Latricia's
experiences on his own side of Texas. Dub two would find himself married in

(05:49):
May of nineteen eighty, but itwould be short lived, as by April
of eighty two, the couple woulddivorce, just one month shy of their
two year anniversary. Latricia married fora second time to a man named Ronald
Kadliicek in February of nineteen eighty one. One year later, in December of
eighty two, she gave birth toa second and last child, a son

(06:13):
the couple would name Clinton. Unlikeher first marriage, this one seemed to
be based on a stronger foundation andwould certainly run a greater distance. Never
seeing herself as simply a stay athome mother, although she loved and doated
on her children, Latricia obtained hernursing license and would eventually pick up work
in San Marcos, the seat ofHayes County, approximately eighteen miles west from

(06:36):
Lockhart. She was employed at theCentral Texas Medical Center, where she worked
for doctor W. Kerrndeshner at gastroEnterology of San Marcos. Coworkers and friends
would describe Latricia as a hard working, dedicated nurse with an innate ability to
soothe and comfort others. Patients praisedLatricia's work ethic, and many specifically recorded

(07:00):
ust did her when they arrived fortheir appointments. As for dub, things
were going pretty well. He pickedup a new job, and by happenstance,
he would find himself developing a relationshipwith his boss's daughter, Gay Williams.
Over the course of the next fewmonths, the relationship grew deeper,
and on Sunday, September second,nineteen eighty four, Gay gave birth to

(07:20):
a son. The couple went onto name Chance Lee Walker Hagen. Chance
was Gay's second She had another sonin a previous marriage, but he was
Lee's first and only. The proudfather was extremely taken by the little boy,
and while he was very loving andcaring, he's also been described as
overprotective, and this created a clashbetween he and Gay. According to her,

(07:46):
Dub treated her first born extremely poorlyand held Chance up on a pedestal.
If the two got into trouble,Dub would discipline the other child while
making up excuses as for why Chancedidn't need to be punished. This behavior,
stacked with other issues that had developedbetween Dub and Gay, would ultimately
destroy their relationship. I used theterm relationship primarily because there wasn't a proposal

(08:11):
or typical marriage between the two,who instead were together long enough to be
defined as a common law marriage.County records show the issuance of that marriage
license granted between the two in Februaryof nineteen eighty four. Dubb ultimately picked
up work as a big rig truckdriver, and while his absence from the
home helped alleviate some of the issuesbetween he and Gay, it also served

(08:35):
to highlight the increased tension and stresswhen the two were together. For Gay,
it was Dubb's treatment of her sonand their increasing arguments about it that
really broke the camel's back. Notto mention, Gay found herself as the
victim of what she'd later describe asDub's controlling nature and verbal abuse. Worried

(08:56):
that with Chance getting older, he'dbe negatively impacted by their arguments and shouting
matches, she made the decision toseek a divorce. The couple separated,
and their divorce was finalized in nineteenninety one. Although Dubb fought for custody,
primary care was granted to Gay whilehe was allowed weekends. Gay was
then living in Kingsville, approximately twohundred miles south from Maxwell. Due to

(09:20):
conflicts between the former couple, theymade arrangements to exchange custody of Chance through
the home of one of dubbs aunts. Essentially, one parent could drop the
child off, allowing the other topick him up without the two ever needing
to see each other, which waspreferential to each since coming together only seemed
to lead to arguments or disagreements andmore bad blood. While Dubb's marriage had

(09:45):
hit the rocks, Latricia's was alsocrumbling. After ten years with Ronald Katliicek,
she made the decision to leave andfile for divorce in nineteen ninety one.
There appears to have been somewhat ofa back and forth between the two,
and over the the course of thenext few years, a bitter dispute
would break out revolving around custody oftheir son Clinton, Though their problems were

(10:07):
vastly more extensive. Friends would laternote that Leatricia had implied some form of
abuse during the marriage and express fearabout how her soon to be ex responded
to conflicts and fights between them,with tensions escalating to an intolerable point.
It was in the latter months ofnineteen ninety one when Dub and Lectricia encountered
one another again, and more thana decade after they had dated in high

(10:31):
school, they decided to give itanother shot. Things had changed since they
were teenagers, but their lives hadfollowed similar paths, and they both found
one another single, divorced, andwith children from previous relationships. While some
would note that the couple were happyto have found one another and excited as
they looked towards the future, othersfelt that it was more of a casual

(10:54):
relationship that was unlikely to have longterm future. For his part, Dub
was apparently the head over heels forhis former high school flame, while Latricia's
mother didn't believe her daughter felt thesame. She would later tell the Austin
News. Quote. He did histhing and she did hers, and I
don't think it was as serious ashe thought it was. End quote.

(11:16):
Dubb ultimately moved in with Latricia andthe two lived at her home, then
located off FM seven to one tothree at the end of County Road eighty
two, approximately nine miles southeast fromLockhart. The home was located in a
very rural area, right at adead end of what is today Chestnut Road,
in an area known as McMahon onland owned by her family. According

(11:41):
to friends and family, the relationshipbetween Dub and Latricia was moving along well,
but by the middle of ninety threethey had traveled down a few bumpy
roads together. Much as had beenthe case with his marriage to Gay,
Dubb continued to revere Chance to adegree that he wouldn't discipline him and took
offence to anyone else who might attemptto do so. This led to many

(12:03):
clashes between he and Leatricia, asbeing a mother of two, she had
no qualms about telling Chance when hehad done wrong. By the fall of
ninety three, Chance was nine yearsold and Latricia's son Clinton was ten,
and the two got along well.Reportedly other issues began creeping in, and
as had previously been the case,Dubb was more likely to dole out discipline

(12:26):
to Latricia's son while allowing Chance toescape. This frustrated Latricia and became a
contentious point between the two. However, it wasn't just an issue for Latricia.
Some people have since stated that herex husband, Kablacek, was infuriated
when he came to learn that Dubhad been disciplining his son and his ex

(12:46):
wife had been allowing it to happen. This apparently made the divorce and dispute
between the two even more volatile,as Cadlachek was apparently fighting to obtain full
custody of their son. Divorce wouldbe finalized on Tuesday, November two,
nineteen ninety three, just three weeksprior to Latricia's thirty eighth birthday and seven

(13:09):
weeks before she would be brutally murderedand Dub and Chance vanished by December of
ninety three. Latricia and Dubb's relationshiphad certainly had its share of ups and
downs, but friends and family notedthat was sort of how they were together.
There was a steady ebb and flow. One day they'd be peaceful,
happy and sweet to one another,and the next they'd be screaming about one

(13:31):
problem or another. But people notedeven when the arguments went nuclear, the
couple would be seen together just thenext day, getting along like nothing had
happened at all. At the sametime, Dub was in the process of
building a home in Maxwell on hisfamily's land that he planned on moving into
with Latricia, and they had continuedliving together in her home. If the

(13:54):
relationship was as tenuous as some havesuggested, this didn't seem to play much
of her role in how the couplehandled their plans for the future. Unfortunately,
the house would never be finished,and the Christmas holiday, a time
of joy and celebration, would beat the center of a dark and disturbing
mystery that continues to endure more thanthirty years later. On Friday, December

(14:18):
seventeenth, Dub picked up Chance forhis visitation and reportedly was scheduled to return
the boy to his mother on ChristmasDay, allowing each to spend part of
the holiday with him. The nextfew days passed without any issues, but
in the days leading up to Christmas, it was reported by a friend of
the couple that they had gotten intoa major argument revolving around Chance. Reportedly,

(14:41):
the child had left a faucet runningand a sink had overflown, leading
to some mild water damage. Latriciawas very upset about this, but when
she confronted Chance, as always seemedto be the case, Dub came to
his son's defense and the two exchangedheated words. The argument became so how
intense, that Dub apparently told Chanceto gather up his things, telling Letricia

(15:05):
that not only were they leaving,but they were moving out. Dub did
not, however, follow through onhis threats, and the couple appears to
have stuck to their normal pattern ofan explosive argument followed by a calm and
peaceful environment. However bad the argumentmight have been, it didn't appear to
have any reverberating effects, or reallyany kind of an impact on Chance.

(15:26):
The next day, on Christmas morning, Saturday the twenty fifth, he picked
up the phone and called his motherback in Kingsville. He explained how excited
he was and how much he lovedhis gifts, noting specifically that he'd received
an old West style duster and someGi Joe figures. However, his call
wasn't just to discuss the gifts.He also had a request. Chance wanted

(15:48):
to know if it would be allright for him to stay with his father
for a few more days. Gayagreed, thinking nothing of it, and
told Chance to call her later sothey could make arrange for him to come
home. But that call would nevercome, and all these years later,
Gay still blames herself and regrets agreeingto the extension. After spending their morning

(16:11):
at Latricia's home opening gifts, thetrio headed over to her parents' house to
spend a few hours celebrating with them. According to Susan, Latricia's mother,
things weren't so great between the couplethat day. Apparently, Dubb asked Latricia
if she would be making the threehour drive with him down to Kingsville to
return Chance, but she wasn't interested, and this led to a conflict.

(16:33):
Susan later said, quote Christmas Day, she seemed kind of on edge.
He said something to her when theywere over here at Christmas for her to
ride with him, and she said, I'm not going end quote. How
extreme the conflict between the two was. No one has ever commented, but
it doesn't appear to have been amajor issue, as they all returned to

(16:55):
Latricia's home together that night The followingday, some day, December twenty sixth,
would be the last time any ofthe three were seen alive. According
to multiple news sources, a personidentified only as a jailer working for the
Caldwell County Sheriff's Department reported seeing allthree together at a restaurant in Lockhart.

(17:17):
According to the witness, dub andLatricia appeared to be getting along well,
quietly chatting across the table, whileChance was with them and seemed happy and
doing well himself. No one cansay for certain what happened after they left
the restaurant that day, and thatquestion remains unanswered more than three decades later.
The first time anyone noticed that somethingmight be wrong was the next day.

(17:41):
The morning of Monday, December twentyseventh. Latricia was set to return
to work that day, but shenever arrived, nor did she call in
to say she wouldn't be able tomake it. Coworkers, knowing her work
ethic, found this to be extremelyout of place. Over the course of
the morning, they placed multiple callsto her home, but the phone went
unanswered. With each call, theirconcern grew a little more. Finally,

(18:06):
towards the end of the day,after not hearing back, they decided to
reach out to her parents, whowere surprised to learn that she didn't arrive
at work that day. Latricia's father, Jack, decided to make the short
trip over to his daughter's home,and while her vehicle was parked in the
driveway, no one answered the door. Entering the house, Jack called out
for his daughter, but received noresponse. It didn't take long for him

(18:30):
to learn the horrible reason why.At approximately six thirty pm, Jack stepped
into his daughter's bedroom and found herlifeless body in her bed. He would
later tell Unsolved Mysteries, quote,I just called her name, and then
I went over and felt her,and I knew that she was dead end
quote. Devastated, Jack dialed nineto one one and the Caldwell County Sheriff's

(18:53):
Office immediately dispatched deputies to the ruralhome. Upon arrival, it was I
orted that investigators were not immediately awarethat they were on the scene of a
homicide. How that's true, Idon't know, but keep that statement in
mind as we proceed through. Moreinformation about the scene inside the home.

(19:14):
Mark Hannah, then chief Deputy,explained to the Austin American Statesman that it
appeared Leatricia had been shot multiple timesin the head while she had been asleep.
Deputies on the scene could find noindication of a struggle, no signs
of forced entry, no weapons insidethe home, and no signs that anything
had been stolen. Deputies reported thatLatricia's body was removed from the scene and

(19:37):
moved north into Travis County, wherean autopsy was ordered by George Miller,
a Caldwell County Justice of the Peace. Lacking a suspect or any indication of
what might have led to Latricia's murder, investigators noted that they would be conducting
interviews with friends and family over thenext few days. Initial interviews brought Dub
and Chance to their attention, notingthat they were apt and from the home

(20:00):
that morning. Not long after thediscovery of Latricia's body, a deputy picked
up the phone and called Gay toask her if her son was with her
and whether or not she had seenor interacted with her ex husband. Gay
explained that her son hadn't yet beenreturned and she hadn't seen Dub, at
which time investigators informed her that Leatriciahad been killed and neither Chance nor Dub

(20:22):
had been located. Reportedly, therewas some information exchange to give the worried
mother the belief that her son mighthave witnessed the crime, while not revealing
much at the time. It waslater explained that the reason investigators theorized that
Chance might have seen what happened wasdue to the fact that they found a
shoe print in blood that reportedly matchedup with the type of shoe Chance was

(20:45):
known to wear. Now, ifit was obvious to investigators that Latricia had
been shot in her sleep and therewas enough blood on the floor for a
footprint to be left behind, howexactly were they at first unaware that they
had at the scene of a homicide. I would also ask if the scene
was so messy and obvious, whydid Caldwell County Sheriff Dan Law later tell

(21:08):
kxin news quote it was cleaned up. Somebody had taken the time to clean
something up before they left. Weliterally were looking for a needle in more
than one haystack end quote. Itcertainly doesn't sound like the scene was all
that well cleaned up, but Idigress. By Wednesday, December twenty ninth,

(21:30):
investigators had interviewed multiple people, includingLatricia's family. Curiously, it was
reported that her father, Jack tolddetectives he could not think of any enemies
nor anyone who may have wanted toharm his daughter. Yet it appears quite
apparent that once they learned of Duband Chance, investigators began focusing in on
the missing pair, believing it waslikely Dub had killed Latricia and then fled

(21:53):
with his son. What evidence orinformation they acquired to get to that conclusion
never been revealed, and many believedthat Dubb's absence gave them enough suspicion to
believe he had to have been involved. Later that same day, the autopsy
results were returned from Travis County andseveral disturbing details were revealed. Firstly,

(22:15):
it was reported that Leatricia had beenshot in the head six times with a
twenty two caliber weapon, theorized tohave been a revolver. Though police have
never given any additional details about thelikely murder weapon, it has been surmised
that a lack of shells at thecrime scene suggested a revolver may have been
used. In addition to this,the medical examiner determined that Latricia had been

(22:37):
dead for between twenty four and thirtysix hours when her body was found,
policing the time of death between sixam and six pm on Sunday, December
twenty sixth, the last day sheDub and Chance were seen alive. So
deputies found themselves in a confusing situation. They clearly had a murder victim,
but they weren't sure what exactly hadhappened to Dub in Chance. They stuck

(23:03):
to the theory that Dub had likelykilled Latricia and then absconded with his son,
but they weren't sure which direction togo digging into his life. When
they learned that Dubb worked as atruck driver, they assumed that meant he
knew a lot of people around thecountry and might be able to disappear for
a while without being found. Theyalso reported to the media that they should

(23:23):
keep an eye out for the fatherand son, noting that Dubb's knowledge of
the roadways might afford him the abilityto travel by lesser known back roads,
aiding him in avoiding a statewide bolo. Then Sheriff Michael Baiting explained quote he
was a truck driver, he couldbe anywhere he knows a lot of people,

(23:45):
end quote, unsure of what exactlythey were working with. A discovery
the following day would change everything.At approximately one am on Thursday, December
thirtieth, Dubbs nineteen eighty six greenFord pickup truck was located abandoned off Manor
Road in East Austin, a locationpolice would later refer to as a high

(24:07):
crime area. The vehicle was foundaround forty miles northwest from Latricia's home,
and while it was in a fullyoperable condition, a search by police would
uncover several strange and concerning facts.Investigators found Dubs wallet and checkbook in the
truck, as well as a twentytwo caliber hunting rifle. At first,
they believed they might have located themurder weapon, but testing would later show

(24:30):
that the rifle hadn't been fired recentlyand the bullets used did not match the
size of those recovered from Latricia's body. In the bed of the truck,
they reported finding a toolbox, sparetire, and a series of Christmas gifts,
some opened, others still wrapped.Deputies would later note that the bed
of the truck and the gifts werestreaked with blood. But Gay later stated

(24:55):
she was told by Polief that therewas a considerable amount of blood in the
bed of that true and not juststreaks. Investigators began to put things together.
They theorized that Dub, after murderingLatricia, had traveled to a bad
part of Austin and abandoned the truckand hoped someone might steal it, thus
tainting the evidence and possibly having thevehicle never recovered. Of course, there

(25:18):
were a few problems with this.With considerable blood in the bed, it
would suggest that Latricia's body had beenmoved, but there was no evidence to
say she was killed anywhere other thanin her bed. They wondered if perhaps
Dubb had been injured during the crime, but they found it hard to believe
he could lose that much blood andstill get away. All things equal,

(25:40):
if Dub had done this, heprobably wouldn't have needed to go out of
his way to try and get thattruck stolen. Since the ability of these
investigators was so severely limited, theywere likely to screw the case up anyway.
The abandoned truck, the blood foundin the bed, and multiple statements
from friends and family that Dub andLatricia frequently argued let investigators to be more

(26:00):
convinced that Dub had killed her.Chief Deputy Mark Hannah would later tell reporters
that they knew for a fact thatDub was at the home on Sunday,
the day of the murder, andthat he had not yet returned his son
to his mother. Reportedly, Dubbhad some kind of an early cell phone
mounted in this truck, and whenpolice had the line tested, they discovered

(26:22):
that someone had made a ten minutephone call from the truck after Letricia's body
was found, but before the vehiclewas No additional details about the call were
revealed, and whether or not policeknew who the call had been made to
was never stated. Less than twelvehours after discovery of the truck and just
four days after the murder, anda rest warrant was issued charging Dub with

(26:45):
first degree murder, Sheriff Baiting,in statements to local media, reported that
investigators believe Dubb had Chance with him, and although he had no prior record,
they considered him to be armed anddangerous. Photographs and descriptions of both
Dub and Chance were released to thepublic, and anyone who might have seen
them was advised to contact authorities,but not to approach them as the situation

(27:10):
could quickly turn violent. Around thesame time the arrest warrant for Dub was
being issued, Latricia's family were grievingdeeply as they attended the thirty eight year
old's funeral, taking place at twopm at mccurty's funeral Home in Lockhart.
Hundreds of people came to pay theirrespects to the nurse and mother of two.
Latricia was laid to rest in DelhiCemetery, beneath the stone reading wonderful

(27:33):
daughter, sister, mom, butmost of all a friend. We loved
her, but God loved her best. It was a massive blow to the
community, many of whom had knownLatricia since she'd been a child, and
who were either friends with her,attended clubs and organizations she was a part
of, or who were patients thatappreciated her tenderness and care. Two weeks

(27:57):
later, though the case was alreadygrowing cold. The discovery of Dub's truck
had bolstered the efforts of investigators,but little else had developed, and what
they did find turned out not topoint in the exact direction they had presumed.
Detectives were shocked when they were informedthat the blood in the bed of
the truck did not belong to LatriciaWhite. It wasn't even her blood type.

(28:19):
While for some that required them tolook at the case a little differently,
others were unmoved and continued the investigationwith sharp focus on Dub and Dub
alone, what some might call tunnelvision. Whether evidence pointed toward or away
from Dub, he remained their primesuspect, with Chief Deputy Hannah telling the

(28:40):
Lockhart Post Register that Dub was notonly their main suspect, he was their
only suspect. Chance, who wassupposed to return to school back in Kingsville
on January fifth, still had notbeen sighted, nor had he contacted his
mother. While police believed Dub hadkilled Latricia, they were now more skeptical

(29:00):
about how he would treat his son. Gay acknowledged that her relationship with Dubb
had been an unhappy one, withhim being verbally abusive, but she made
it clear that even if he hadkilled Latricia, she didn't believe Dubb would
ever lay a violent hand on theirson. She went so far as to
refer to him as a devoted father, and she believed that he had likely

(29:21):
gone south, crossing the border intoMexico to avoid authorities and to start a
new life, raising Chance. SinceDubb had failed to bring Chance back to
his mother, Kingsville officials filed asecond arrest warrant, this one charging him
with interference with child custody. Consideringpotential flight from the state of Texas and
the possibility of Dubb heading into Mexico, the Caldwell County Sheriff's Department would be

(29:47):
aided in their investigation by the KingsvillePolice, Texas Rangers, and the FBI.
For their part, the FEDS issueda third warrant for Dub's arrest,
charging him with unlawful flight to avoidprosecution. Despite the issuance of all these
warrants, there were no sightings ofDub, and calls and tips continued to
dry up. Friends of Latricia's interviewedby authorities suggested that Dubb had been a

(30:12):
controlling and jealous man, and theytheorized that he may have lashed out at
her in response to a breakup.Latricia's mother thought along the same lines,
saying, quote, I think shejust told them the relationship was over and
he just couldn't take the rejection endquote. One month later, In February

(30:34):
of nineteen ninety four, the casewas featured on America's Most Wanted, and
Gay was there to plead for herson's safe return. The segment drew in
a lot of viewers, and whilethere was initially hope for some developments,
Gay later stated that police had toldher they'd gotten a few calls and potential
leads, but little else, andthose leads seemingly went nowhere. In April

(30:57):
of ninety four, four months afterthe murder, Gay's father O. P.
Received a rather upsetting call at hishome. Picking up the receiver,
he heard the voice of a youngboy on the other end who cried out,
help me, help me, andthen it sounded as if someone yanked
the phone out of his hand andthe line went dead. He was absolutely

(31:17):
convinced that it was Chance's voice onthe other end of the line, and
this was deeply unsettling and heartbreaking.However, further investigation led detectives to conclude
that the call had been little morethan a cruel and callous prank. Devastated,
Gay couldn't sit by and wait foranswers or hope that the police would
find her son. She was frustratedby the situation and desperately wanted to bring

(31:41):
Chance home. She hired a privateinvestigator try and locate them, and worked
with her employer to establish a rewardfund for information. She wrote letters to
President Clinton asking for assistance and findingher son, and she kept in close
contact with Tommy Ratliffe, a Texasranger in charge of the investigation. Gay
explained to the Corpus Christi Caller Timessaying, quote, I call him probably

(32:07):
every other day during the week.Nobody's been able to do anything or find
him. I don't know what elseto do end quote. But she didn't
stop there. She continued to tryand fight and to locate her son.
She reached out to three organizations thatspecialized in missing children, and continued to
try and keep the case in themedia, whether it was in newspapers or

(32:29):
on television shows. She just wantedto keep chances face and name alive.
Tommy Ratliffe noted that media coverage hadresulted in a lot of leads, but
by September of ninety four, ninemonths after the murder, all he could
really say was that they continued tofollow up on leads and were actively pursuing
the case. Three months later Decembermarked one full year, and investigators appeared

(32:52):
no closer to finding answers than theyhad initially been. Chief Deputy Hannah asked
about the case here later simply replied, quote, We're still working on the
case, but we haven't had anyleads. I don't think he's anywhere around
here. End quote. Two monthslater, in February of nineteen ninety five,

(33:14):
Unsolved Mysteries agreed to run a segmentfeaturing the case. At the time,
the show was in the midst ofbuilding a massive audience, and it
was believed that this kind of coveragemight be able to break things open.
Tommy Ratliffe was thrilled with the publicityand believed it could really help them narrow
down and pinpoint where dub might havefled to. He explained, quote,

(33:36):
I've been working on it since threedays after it happened, and it seems
like I work on it every week. Something's happening all the time on this
case. Generally, it doesn't takethis long to be able to find somebody.
At this point in time, hecould be anywhere. We've had lots
of calls from all over the countryon sightings. We couldn't pinpoint exactly where

(33:58):
with the wide base this television stationwill put out it will assist us in
finding him and the little boy.End quote. Ratcliffe noted there had been
hundreds of tips and reported sightings,but police had never been able to confirm
any of them, nor had theytracked down dub or Chance. Over the
course of the next few years,while Gay did everything she could to try

(34:21):
and find her son, the casecontinued to grow colder, and coverage began
dropping off. Newspapers and television showsseeking the newer hotter cases only wrote small
blurbs or articles showing photos of duband Chance and asking for anyone who had
information to contact authorities. As yearsbegan winding on, Gay tried to maintain

(34:43):
a relationship with Dubb's family, believingthey were all hoping for the same thing,
to see their loved one returned home. However, the more time passed,
the more difficult it became to suppressthe paranoia and the frustration, leading
many, including Gay herself, towonder if perhaps Dubbs's family knew more than
they were saying, or if itwas possible that one or more of them

(35:07):
might have aided dub in fleeing thearea. She would later state quote,
I believe Lee killed his girlfriend andtook my son, and I believe his
family knows something end quote. Fortheir part, Dubb's family emphatically denied the
accusations, stating that if they knewwhere Dub or Chance were, they would

(35:27):
have told authorities immediately. Dub's sister, Barbara, interviewed for Unsolved Mysteries,
would state quote, we haven't heardanything from him at all, and that
tells me he's got to be deadend quote. Tragically, on Wednesday July
fourteenth, nineteen ninety nine, Dubb'sfather, Lee Herman Walker Hagenor died at

(35:50):
the age of eighty. Authorities investigatingthe case would later determine that senior had
taken his own life. While somebelieve this provided evidence that he had guilt
over his potential involvement in helping Dubescape from murder charges, others have suggested
that a terminal cancer diagnosis had ledthe elder Walker Hagen to take his own

(36:10):
life rather than slowly dying in ahospital bed. As it stands today,
no one has ever clarified if,in fact they know. Two years later,
in August of two thousand and one, nearly eight years after the murder
and double disappearance, Chance's computer enhancedphoto was featured on direct mail cards over

(36:31):
a six week campaign. The photoshowed Chance as he would have looked then
at seventeen years old, and wasestimated to have been delivered to nearly seven
million homes. The card also featuredimages of Dub with information that he could
be armed, dangerous, and potentiallysuicidal. Hopeful but heartbroken, Gay was

(36:52):
asked how she felt nearly a decadelater, and replied, quote, this
is the most difficult experience for amother, wondering the conditions her son is
living in, and if he's evenalive. I dream about him, and
he's alive in my dreams, sothat gives me the hope and energy to
make it through the day. Endquote. The next year, in May

(37:15):
of two thousand and two, theTexas Department of Public Safety added Dub to
their list of their ten most wantedfugitives. In January of twenty ten,
seventeen years after Latricia was murdered,Hector Gomez, a United States marshal taking
a new look at the case,sat down for an interview with kx AN

(37:35):
Austin News and gave them a lookinto the somewhat skewed mindset investigators had regarding
their hunt for Dubin Chance. Gomezconfirmed that the blood found in the bed
of dubs truck did not belong toLatricia and that at the time they were
awaiting the results of testing conducted atthe University of North Texas Crime Lab to
determine if it belonged to Dub orperhaps Chance. Gomez went on to state

(38:01):
that they believed Dubb had assistance inescaping, likely from members of his family.
His reasoning for this statement because Dub'sfamily had no obituary published more than
a decade after he was last seenalive. Gomez noted, quote, it
just comes right at us that,you know, if you want to make

(38:22):
somebody dead, you put no obituaryin the paper. End quote. I
had no idea that that was howyou made someone dead. But I digress.
With this caliber of investigative skill,I struggle to understand how this case
has remained unsolved for so long.He then went on to state while the
life insurance policy did exist for dub, no one had ever made an attempt

(38:45):
to cash it in. Gomez thenfelt confident enough, despite seemingly no solid
evidence, to claim that they knewthat Dub was still alive after the murder,
saying, quote, there's no questionin our mind that Lee Walkerhagen was
at least alive several days later.End quote. Why and how did they

(39:08):
come to that conclusion? That parthe chooses not to share. Then in
Sheriff Dan Law agreed with Gomez andstated his belief that the father and son
were likely living under assumed names inMexico, saying, quote, and that's
just where all the signs lead toend quote. He doesn't share what any

(39:28):
of those signs were. However,Latricia's mother agreed, saying that while some
had theorized that Dub and Chance mightbe dead, she had no doubt that
at least Dub was still alive outthere somewhere. Of course, while these
statements are interesting in attention grabbing,they're little more than opinions, as investigators
to this day have never provided asingle scrap of evidence to show Dub and

(39:51):
Chance fled to Mexico, let aloneto even prove that they are alive.
If you think I'm being a littlehard on investigators here, you're about to
find out exactly why. Five yearslater, in twenty fifteen, twenty two
years after the murder, Gay wascontacted by a Texas ranger who was reinvestigating
the cold case, and he wasless than impressed with the initial work done

(40:15):
by deputies back in ninety three.According to Gay, the ranger told her
that while the blood in the bedof the truck has never been identified,
DNA testing had confirmed that it belongedto two separate individuals who were related to
one another, like perhaps a fatherand son. In addition to this revelation,

(40:35):
the officer told Gay that there hadbeen a massive mistake committed early on.
Remember that ten minute phone call madefrom Dubb's truck after Latricia's body was
found, but before the truck wasdiscovered. As it turned out, that
call was made in nineteen ninety two, one year prior to the murder,
not within days or hours of it. In ninety three, Gay also learned

(40:59):
that Dubb had some reason to stickaround Texas. On Monday, December twenty
seventh, hours before Leatricia's body wasdiscovered in her bed, a lawyer employed
by Dub had filed paperwork in familycourt. Dubb, it appeared, had
decided to take Gay to court,where he wanted to fight for full custody
of their son. To many,this seems an odd approach to take if

(41:22):
someone were planning to kill their girlfriendin skip Town. Gay was caught off
guard by this news, having neverpicked up on Dubb's plans and her ex
apparently never mentioned anything about taking herback to court. The ranger going out
on a limb told Gay that itwas his belief. Having re examined all
of the available evidence that Dub andChance were likely killed the same day as

(41:46):
Leatricia, and that Dub's truck wasused to move their bodies to him,
it seemed apparent investigators had developed tunnelvision, and they ignored any evidence that
stood to exclude Dubb, focusing inonly on that which fit their narrow view
of the case. As it turnedout, Dubb was not the only person

(42:06):
who may have wanted to harm Latricia, and in fact, multiple people had
told detectives about another man as earlyas the first day of the investigation.
But for reasons which have never beenexplained, detectives chose to ignore that other
man and focused only on Dub.Who was that other man? You ask
well, Latricia's ex husband, RonaldCadlichk, for reasons passing understanding. When

(42:32):
the initial investigation kicked off, allfocus turned towards Dub and away from Cadleacheck.
This despite the fact that members ofDubb's family, friends of his,
and friends of Latricia all pointed outthat she and Cadleicheck were engaged in a
bitter custody dispute over their son.Latricia left kdlcheck in ninety one, but
their divorce wasn't officially finalized until Novembertwo, nineteen ninety three, seven weeks

(42:58):
before the murder. Several people statedthat Latricia was afraid of her ex husband,
and that Catlicheck was allegedly very angryabout the fact that Dub had disciplined
his son. According to Gay,the ranger told her that when confronted by
authorities, Cadlichek had allegedly admitted tobeing at Leatricia's house on the day of
the murder. However, he claimedthat their son had left a toy behind,

(43:22):
and when she didn't answer phone calls, he went directly to the home.
Allegedly, he knocked on the door, received no answer, and then
left. However, some have theorizedthat Cadlichick admitted to being there because,
with the home being at the endof a dead end road, he worried
someone might have spotted him or hisvehicle in the area. In an interview

(43:45):
conducted on the Lost and Found podcast, one of Dub's close friends, Thad
Reagan, stated that Cadlichek was thefirst person he thought of when he learned
of the murder end of Dub andChance's disappearance. Reagan went up in a
plane with a and they flew aroundthe area surrounding Latricia's property, searching for
signs of turned over dirt. Reagansaid they had done this because, as

(44:07):
part of his job working for thecity of Smithville, Texas, Kadlichek had
access to heavy machinery, and Thadthought it was possible that Dub and Chance
had been killed and buried somewhere nearby. According to Reagan, several people theorized
that Cadlichik might have been involved,but investigators at the time simply hadn't seemed

(44:28):
interested in pursuing that possibility. Reaganwent on to claim that Dubb had told
him of some odd happenings in theweeks leading up to the murder. Allegedly,
strange vehicles were seen driving down tothe end of the road, sitting
by Latricia's home for a few moments, and then pulling away. Dubb apparently
wondered aloud whether Latricia, himself,or both of them were actively being stalked

(44:52):
or watched. Gay would later statein an interview with Lost and Found that
she was told by a member oflaw enforcement that they had approached Kablachek after
establishing him as a potential person ofinterest, and requested that he take a
polygraph, but allegedly he declined thatoffer. One year after learning all of
this information from the since retired Texasranger, some of the details were released

(45:16):
publicly. In May of twenty sixteen, twenty three years after the crimes,
the Texas Department of Public Safety issueda press release noting that they had since
discovered evidence to suggest that both Duband Chance were victims of foul play,
though revealing little. Their statement readin part quote, investigators found nothing in

(45:37):
the home appeared to be missing,and believed that this murder was most likely
a crime of passion committed by someoneclosely associated to one or more of the
victims. End quote, the TexasRangers, through their review of the cold
case, requested assistance from the publicand asked for anyone with information to come

(45:58):
forward. They noted that they wouldneed additional evidence to move forward with the
case and that they would like torecover a dub in Chance's bodies, believing
both were likely killed at the sametime or within hours of Latricia. Strangely,
as it turned out, while USMarshall Gomez claimed that they were certain
dub had lived for days after themurder, new investigators do not believe this

(46:21):
to be the case. For Gay, this was heartbreaking news. She had
spent more than twenty years going onTV shows, sitting for newspaper interviews,
pushing for more coverage and publicity becauseshe had been convinced by investigators that her
ex husband and son were still aliveout there somewhere. She felt betrayed and

(46:43):
recognized that for two decades she hadbeen lied to and manipulated by investigators with
the Caldwell County Sheriff's Department who eitherknew there was more to the story but
kept it to themselves, or whowere just as uninformed as she was.
She cannot, for one second understandwhy investigators ignored the information about Kablachek and

(47:04):
instead concocted a complex murder, abduction, and escape as planned out by Dub
when there was another, just aslikely suspect to pursue. Asked how she
felt about learning all of that,Gay replied, quote, you ask how
I feel sometimes sadness, anger,guilt, and the list could go on.

(47:25):
Every Christmas, I have to puton a happy face because of my
grandchildren, but it's so difficult.Then guilt overwhelms me, knowing I could
not protect my son, and stillto this day, I cannot get justice
for him. I also live withthe guilt that I neglected my other son
because of this tragedy. People sayI can only imagine what you go through,

(47:49):
but the thing is, no imaginationcan ever know what a mother goes
through until they do. End quote. Dub's remaining family have believed since day
one that he was innocent of themurder and had likely been a victim himself.
It's a big reason why they eventuallyissued an obituary, hoping that it
might aid them and being provided somelevel of closure. Of course, the

(48:15):
ghosts of loss, grief, andheartbreak are not so easily exercised, and
their plight was in no way aidedby investigators who for twenty years not only
denied that Dub and Chance had beenvictims as well, but who adamantly argued
in the press that Dub himself wasa cold blooded killer and non custodial child
abductor. When you lose someone youlove, whether it be by natural causes,

(48:38):
a homicide, or anything in between, all you were left with are
your memories of that person and whatthey meant to you. Imagine the pain
of seeing your brother son, uncleconstantly accused of murder, called a violent
killer who is armed and dangerous,and there's no one to turn to because
it's literally the police who are smearinghis name and memory. No one,

(49:01):
not from the Caldwell County Sheriff's Department, FBI, Kingsville Police, or Texas
Rangers, has ever explained why Cadlichekwas not considered a potential person of interest
and investigated early on. Oh therehave been rumors connections to law enforcement,
a tight relationship with someone high upin the city or county legislature. The

(49:23):
truth is, no one knows why, and in the eight years since the
Texas Department of Public Safety stated theynow believe Dub and Chants were victims.
They've never addressed that question, norhave they explained why they were able to
obtain a murder warrant against Dub withinfour days of finding Latricia's body with basically
no solid evidence. But more thanthirty years later, they haven't developed anything

(49:46):
about Cadlichek's alleged involvement. In frustrationand grief, Gay decided to pen a
letter to the man she now believeskilled her ex husband and son. She
thought perhaps he might be w willingto give a little, just something to
allow her to locate her son's bodyso she might bring him home and lay

(50:06):
him to rest. The letter,which was provided to Lost and Found blogs
from Gay herself, reads quote,I am the mother of Chance Walker Hagen.
I am writing to you in hopesyou will find it in your heart
to let me know where my son'sbody is. Years ago, I was
told you killed my son. Formany years, all I wanted was for

(50:28):
you to pay and know the painI was feeling. I then realized nothing
is going to bring Chance back tome. The only thing I hope for
now is closure, finding his bodyand bringing him home is the only thing
that will give me closure. Iknow you are a father and should realize
how I feel. Chance's body needsto come home to me and be buried

(50:52):
in my family cemetery. I don'tbelieve you meant to kill Chance. I
don't care if you ever pay forwhat you have done, because I truly
believe you pay for it every dayof your life. I'm not asking you
to confess or turn yourself in inany means you see fit. I am
asking you to somehow just let meknow where Chance's body is from one parent

(51:15):
to another. I hope you canunderstand how I feel. I know your
son is very important to you,so you should understand what I am asking
of you. Please find it inyour heart to do this for me.
I do not believe you really meantto hurt anyone. This got out of
control, and all you wanted todo was protect your son. God bless

(51:36):
you in making your decision. Endquote. She has never received an answer,
and this year will mark thirty onesince she last saw her son.
She looks back on that Christmas Daywith painful or regret, blaming herself for
allowing Chance to stay with his fathera little longer. Of course, she
had no way of knowing what wouldhappen, but that provides little comfort and

(52:00):
does nothing to alleviate the grief andanguish she continues to suffer every day.
When last scene, Lee Hermann walkerHagen Junior was described as being a white
male with blonde hair and blue eyes, standing six feet four inches tall and
weighing approximately two hundred and forty pounds. He often goes by the nickname Dub,

(52:22):
but could also go by Junior orDoug Walker. Dub had a mustache
and wore glasses at the time ofhis disappearance, and has scars on both
arms and his right leg. Dubwas last seen at a restaurant in Lockhart,
Texas, on December twenty sixth,nineteen ninety three. At the time
of his disappearance, Dub was fortyyears old, and if alive today,

(52:45):
he would be turning seventy one thisyear. Chance Lee Walker Hagen has been
described as a white male with blondehair and blue green eyes, standing four
feet eight inches tall and weighing approximatelyseventy five pounds. Chance has a small
dimple on his right cheek and mayutilize the last name Walker. Last scene

(53:08):
at a restaurant in Lockhart, Texas. Chance was nine years old at the
time of his disappearance, and ifalive, would be turning forty this September.
Photos of Chance as he was innineteen ninety three and age progressed images
are available. When last scene,Chance was in the company of his father,

(53:29):
as well as thirty eight year oldLatricia Gale White, who was found
shot to death in her bed onthe morning of Monday, December twenty seventh,
nineteen ninety three. A bloody footprintfound at the scene may suggest that
Chance witnessed the horrible crime before heand his father were both targeted. Three

(53:49):
families were devastated by these horrible crimes. There's been no justice for the murder
of Leatricia White, and instead,for nearly three decades, law enforcement continued
to prepare to wait a story ofdub killing her and then running off with
his son. There was evidence pointingthe other way, but it was ignored.
There were theories suggesting another possibility,but they were discredited. There was

(54:13):
another potential person of interest with means, motive, and opportunity, but no
one wanted to pull on that threadfor some reason. Today, all three
families mourn not just for their lostloved ones, but for the very justice
they mistakenly believed investigators had been pursuingfrom the beginning. Life is full of

(54:42):
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no matter what stage you're in Shopifydot Com slash trace. As I imagine
many of you could tell from theevidence section of this episode, the murder
of Leatricia White and the disappearances andpresumed murders of dub and Chance Walkerhagen in
terms of the investigation is a totalcluster. It looks from the outside in

(58:42):
that for twenty years, investigators lockedin tight tunnel vision on Dub as leatricious
killer and chances subductor, regardless ofwhat direction the evidence pointed, regardless of
what information they were given, regardlessof what other potential persons of interest were
there. Now, I fully admitwhen you read short blurbs describing the case,
they tend to leave out a lotof key information, and it's easy

(59:06):
to leap to the same conclusions.I fully acknowledged that when I began researching
this case, I was under theassumption Dub was the most likely suspect,
But once I started peeling away layers, I quickly learned there was a lot
more going on beneath the surface.It's a pretty forgivable mistake to make as
someone who isn't connected to the caseor law enforcement. But how investigators and

(59:29):
detectives working for the Caldwell County,Texas Rangers and the FBI didn't realize their
mistakes early on is mind blowing tome. You could argue its negligence,
but it's hard to swallow. Thiswas all just the result of mistakes,
misgivings, assumptions, and poor investigativework. Some folks would argue, never

(59:51):
attribute malice to that which can beexplained by neglect, ignorance, or incompetence.
I have no evidence one way oranother, and I have no interest
to making accusations, but purely myown opinion, this wasn't just mistakes and
errors. It seems as though therewas a conscious, concerted effort to steer
this case in one direction, andone direction only. We could argue about

(01:00:15):
it back and forth all day,so I guess we'll just move on.
I have a hell of a lotof questions about this case that have never
been answered. I can't understand why, even after the revelations of twenty fifteen
and sixteen, this case remained soquiet and locked up. And there are
contradictions everywhere. Leatricia was shot inbed, but they assumed the blood in

(01:00:37):
the truck was hers, even thoughthey didn't think she was moved. They
were quote unquote unaware that they wereat the scene of a homicide. But
they also know someone cleaned up afterthemselves, but somehow missed a child's bloody
footprint. Does this make sense?To anyone. They report no signs of
forced entry, no signs of astruggle, nothing missing from the home,

(01:01:00):
and no weapons recovered. But thenthey refer to this as a crime of
passion. Now, I think maybewhat they were trying to say was this
was a crime involving someone with aconnection to Latricia, and that there may
have been some strong emotions on bothsides. But to refer to the killing
of a person why all they aresound asleep, as a crime of passion

(01:01:21):
is a bit odd to me.What's really interesting is they don't use that
phrase until after they determined that duband Chance were also likely victims. The
murder weapon in this case has alwaysbeen interesting to me as well. Now,
I listened to quite a few podcastsand read a lot of information about
this case and preparation, and somethingI learned very quickly, and I'm sure

(01:01:43):
some of you have as well,is your average podcaster doesn't know much about
firearms. Simply referring to the weaponas a twenty two doesn't answer several important
questions about the type of gun used, which type of round was used,
twenty two short, twenty two long, twenty two magnum or twenty two long
rifle, rim fire, center shot, sonic or sub sonic, hollow point,

(01:02:06):
or round nose. I could goon for a while here, but
the point is shooting someone in thehead six times with a twenty two could
be viewed as rageful in an overlyaggressive murder, overkill for lack of a
better term, but it could alsobe seen as ensuring that the victim actually
dies. Not to say it's commonor uncommon, per se, but bullets

(01:02:27):
do strange things when they strike abody, and there have been people who
have survived multiple headshots from a twentytwo. So you can utilize the six
shots to analyze the killer's intent andlevel of rage. But you could also
argue it's less rage and more aboutthe certainty of the kill. What I
find most fascinating about the unknown murderweapon is why it was selected in the

(01:02:49):
first place. I have a twentytwo caliber glock and a twenty two caliber
rifle, and I can tell youright now, if I were out to
take a life, I'd use oneof my nine millimeters over the twenty two
and day of the week. Now, if that's all you can get your
hands on, or there is somespecific reason you want to use a twenty
two, like maybe to frame someoneelse, or because you don't want neighbors

(01:03:09):
to hear the shots, then itmakes a bit more sense to me.
That doesn't appear to have been thecase here though. Also, if the
plan is to kill not only Latriciabut six foot four to two hundred and
forty pound dub I would one hundredpercent have something more powerful than a twenty
two with me. But maybe there'ssome reason we are unaware of that makes

(01:03:30):
this weapon selection make more sense.Hell, maybe it was just a matter
of it being an older gun whichisn't registered and can't be traced, or
that won't be noticed if it goesmissing. Since there was such a poor
investigation done at the time, andI even use the word investigation loosely,
it's hard to know how exactly thismight have gone down. No photos of

(01:03:52):
the scene have been released, noinformation about the exact positioning of Latricia's body,
and absolutely nothing about where Dubble andChance might have been at the time
of her murder. If Latricia wasasleep, why wasn't dub In bed with
her? Was the crime committed inthe middle of the night or in the
morning, perhaps after dub had risen. The autopsy determined Latricia was killed between

(01:04:15):
six am and six pm, whichunfortunately doesn't help answer any questions. But
it doesn't sound like she was killedin the middle of the night, and
since they were all seen out ata restaurant that day, it sounds like
the murder happened closer to six pmthan to six am, and therefore I
have no explanation for why she wasin bed unless her Monday morning shift as

(01:04:36):
a nurse started really early. Therewere no signs of fourth entry, no
signs of a struggle, and thatseems to indicate to me that the door
either wasn't locked or the killer possesseda key. So let's address the six
foot four inch, two hundred andforty pound elephant in the room. How

(01:04:56):
do you get past dub under thesecircumstances. We have no established timeline,
but it would be interesting to knowif investigators were able to determine anything about
how many people might have been involvedin how the killer or killers managed to
get into the house, kill Latricia, and then kill and or abduct Dub
in chance taking them elsewhere. Therewas blood found in the home, but

(01:05:17):
no confirmation as to whether or notit was all Lutricia's, or if Dub
or Chance might have been injured there. We have no information about fingerprints found,
DNA recovered, hair fibers, nothing. Of course, if they were
leaping to Dub as a suspect fromthe get go, maybe they didn't go
as deep with their processing of thecrime scene as we would have expected them

(01:05:38):
to. We simply have no wayto know. Dub's truck is found in
East Austin, thirty forty miles away, three days after a Lectricia's body is
discovered. In the vehicle are someof his personal effects, while it checkbook
and in the better Christmas presents,some open, some still wrapped, a
twenty two caliber rifle that hasn't beenused recently. In some toys to this

(01:06:00):
day refer to these items as beingstreaked with blood, though Gay stated she
was told it was a considerable amountof blood. Either way, they assume
it's Lectricia's, only to learn laterit's not even her blood type. In
twenty ten, they say they're sendingthe blood off to the lab to determine
who it belongs to, and fourteenyears later they've still never said one way
or the other. Gay claims anofficer told her the blood belonged to two

(01:06:24):
separate people who were directly related,which sure sounds like the blood is a
mix of dub and chances, itisn't hard to visualize that whoever left the
truck at that location probably used itto transport their bodies. That, of
course, would suggest the involvement ofmore than one person. If you're going
to drive the truck all the wayout there, you're gonna need someone to

(01:06:44):
give you a ride back. Wasthat truck thoroughly processed? Hard to say.
We have no information on if theyrecovered prints or any other evidence outside
of the blood and items previously listed. It would be really interesting to know
if they found unidentified prints or maybeevidence that someone had wiped down the interior
in order to destroy evidence. Butagain, we've got no solid information,

(01:07:08):
and frankly, given the nature ofthis investigation, I don't feel that I
can just assume that they would dothings correctly. Now we know investigators generally
have more information or evidence than theyshare publicly, but I would love to
know how they managed to get aprobable cause to obtain a warrant for first
degree murder within hours of finding thetruck. They had no witnesses, no

(01:07:30):
murder weapon, no trail of evidence. They have a call from the truck
made after the murder, which leadsthem to believe Dub was absolutely alive after
Leatricia was killed. But oops,that call was made in nineteen ninety two,
not nineteen ninety three. Was thata mistake or one of those mistakes
you make accidentally on purpose to ageyour pursuit of a warrant. They have

(01:07:53):
blood, but it's not leatricious.They have a twenty two caliber rifle,
but it's ruled out as being themurder weapon. All they really was the
fact that Dub and Chants were unaccountedfor, and people said he and Leatricia
used to argue. That seems likea pretty thin amount of information to get
a judge to sign off on anarrest warrant for first degree murder. When
you compare that to the fact thatafter thirty one years they haven't ever charged

(01:08:15):
anyone else or obtained any other warrantseven to search property, it seems pretty
bizarre. I don't mean to makebaseless accusations, but you can easily see
how people might assume this is justanother case of a bunch of good old
boys handling the case rather than professional, trained and skilled officers. But I
digress. Two more warrants were issuedagainst Dub a month after the murder,

(01:08:40):
one for not returning Chance to hismother, a violation of a custody order,
which makes sense. I mean,technically Dubb never brought Chance back,
though apparently no one considered the possibilitythat maybe they were both dead. Then
the FBI issues a warrants saying thatDub unlawfully fled the state of Texas to
avoid prosecution. Again, sure,you can't find him, so you assume

(01:09:02):
he's fled, and that makes senseto me. But here's something that doesn't.
This warrant, to date is stillactive, and according to the Western
District of Texas, the last actionon it took place on August sixteenth,
twenty twenty one, when a newjudge was assigned. Why, five years
after police acknowledged that they now believeDub and Chance were killed, are they

(01:09:25):
still keeping this warrant open. Doesn'tmake a lot of sense to me,
But maybe it's because the FBI wasinvolved with this one. While initial investigators
focused on all of the reasons whythey thought Dub would commit these crimes,
Friends and family took it upon themselvesto try and find out what might have
really happened that Reagan, a closefriend, went up in a plane and
searched the area surrounding Leatricia's home,looking for signs of turned over earth or

(01:09:49):
burials. He went to the houseDub was building in Maxwell. He searched
his big rig, but didn't findanything. Whether or not investigators ever searched
any of these plays is unknown,but if they did, they certainly haven't
talked about it publicly. Did Dubhave any enemies who might have wanted to
harm him hard to say, becausehe was treated as the suspect the whole

(01:10:11):
time, so it doesn't look likeanyone dug much into that possibility or the
idea that he could have been avictim too. The only other name that
comes up in this case really interms of someone who might have wanted to
harm Latricia Dub or both of themis her ex husband, Ronald Catlichk.
We have alleged reports that he wasinfuriated that Dub disciplined his and Leatricia's son,

(01:10:32):
and we know that the former couplewere divorced but still engaged in a
vicious custody dispute. There are somany cases out there where an ex kills
their former spouse. Sometimes it's aboutmoney, sometimes the kids, sometimes just
all of those old arguments are stillburning in their chest. Now. I
haven't seen anything which convinces me thatCatileicheck is the one responsible for these crimes.

(01:10:57):
But that's due in large part,I assume, because the investigators didn't
do any damn work to try andfind any evidence that pointed in a direction
that wasn't Dub. However, Iwould say Kadleachech was just as good of
an avenue to explore as Dubb was. From the first moment they assumed Dub
killed Latricia and ran off with chancebecause they used to argue a lot.
I mean, seriously, that's prettymuch what they said. Multiple people who

(01:11:20):
say they argued all the time,but who also say that after the arguments
they'd be fine. They'd pop offon one another, sit in quiet attention,
and then go out to dinner andmove on. Okay, I understand
he lived there and you can't findhim. He has a son and he
hasn't returned him. They might notget along that well and Leatricia's mother is

(01:11:42):
convinced Dub is more into her daughterthan she isn't to him. I think
it makes perfect sense to consider Duba person of interest there and to try
and figure out whether or not hewas involved. What I don't understand is
how you ignore Kaplacheck. He's herex husband, they're divorced, was far
from amicable. They are feuding overcustody to their son, and he's allegedly

(01:12:04):
pissed off that Latricia allowed Dub todiscipline their son. I'm not going to
make the argument that cad Lichick clearlystands out even more so than Dub,
but I would feel comfortable saying ifI were investigating this case, I'd be
looking at both of them. Theyboth have the means, motive, and
opportunity, and yet it's only Dubwho receives the intense scrutiny of law enforcement.

(01:12:28):
Several people who knew both Dub andLeatricia mentioned cad Lichick two investigators on
day one, and yet he's quicklydismissed, and four days later police are
loudly telling the media Dub is theprime and only suspect. Really, much
of what we know about Kadlicheck,beyond this point isn't something I feel comfortable

(01:12:49):
calling solid fact. It comes fromgay and while I in no way mean
to impugne her character or reliability,I'd feel a little better if law enforcement
would confirm these details. So Allegedly, Cadlichick admits to investigators that he was
at Letricia's home the day of themurder. He supposedly says that their son

(01:13:11):
left a toy behind and he wentto pick it up, which is really
fascinating because early reporting on the casespecified that their son was out of town
at the time, so I'm notsure how that all adds up. It's
been alleged that Clinton was at Leatricia'shome on Christmas, but again never confirmed,
so it's hard to say for certaineither way. Kadlicheck allegedly tells police

(01:13:32):
he called Latricia, got no answer, so he drove over, knocked on
the door, got no answer again, and then left. Does that make
sense to anyone? It's the dayafter Christmas and your son left a toy
at your ex's house, so youcall and she doesn't answer, and you
decide to drive over and bang onthe door and then leave. Why not

(01:13:55):
wait to call later, or tellyour son don't worry, you'll get it
later. I don't know. Thewhole thing is so innocuous, I can't
tell if it's legit or a poorcover story. Apparently that's about as far
as things went. It's been allegedthat Cadlicheck was asked to take a polygraph
and refuse, but I can't confirmthat. You know, a lot of
the finer details of this case couldreally be filled in better if law enforcement

(01:14:18):
would actually give an update. Thelast time they said anything publicly was in
twenty sixteen, when they announced Duband Chance were victims. They noted the
crimes were ones of passion and likelycommitted by someone who knew the victims.
Cad Licheck could certainly fit in there, but so could others. It's all

(01:14:39):
rather vague like after giving Cadlcheck apass so early on, they continue to
keep his possible involvement clear of theirdeclarations. Also, and maybe it's just
silly of me to ask at thispoint, but what exactly was the new
evidence that made them believe dub andChance were victims of the same person or
persons. Was it the familial relationshipbetween the two people whose blood was found

(01:15:02):
in the back of the truck.Again, we don't know because they haven't
shared any of the evidence that causedthem to change their minds. And let's
face it, how often do wesee law enforcement actively acknowledge mistakes while announcing
a change of direction. One keyfacet of this case that's always grabbed my
attention is the phone call from Chanceto his mother when he asked if he

(01:15:26):
could stay longer. Gay has madeit clear that this is her biggest regret
in life, and why all mywords will likely do little to alleviate any
of her pain and guilt. Noone would view this call as anything other
than what it was. Chance washaving fun, he'd gotten presents, It's
Christmas, and he wants to spendmore time with his father. Gay,

(01:15:46):
in being a good mother, tellshim it's okay and allows it. She
couldn't have foreseen this, I mean, who could? It seems like such
an out of nowhere, inexplicable seriesof crimes. The reason I focus on
the call, though, is becauseI can't help but wonder who else might
have been aware of it. DidDub tell anyone that Chance was staying longer

(01:16:09):
did Latricia think to mention that toanyone? I ask because I have a
firm belief that whoever went to thehouse that day to kill Latricia and probably
Dub did not know Chance was goingto be there. I have no evidentiary
basis for this. Maybe it's justmy own personal belief that the killer didn't
want to murder a nine year old. Sure, maybe the child was a

(01:16:30):
target, but I tend to thinkthat the killer was under the impression that
they would only find Latricia and Dubthat Sunday, December twenty sixth. It
doesn't seem like Leatricia and her exwere at an amicable point where they would
exchange information like that, And forwhat reason would she need to tell her
ex about Chance daying a few extradays. Anyway, reading through the letter

(01:16:51):
Gay Scent, in which she begsto be told the location of her son's
body, it sounds like she doesn'tthink the killer wanted to harm Chance.
That footprint and blood takes on adifferent shade when you realize there's a good
chance that the child heard something andwalked into the room only to find himself
staring at the killer, and inthat moment, the killer decided that Chance

(01:17:14):
would have to be murdered as well. There's really only two reasons I can
see doing that. Because the childcan identify you by name and sight,
or because he was always a targettoo. Unfortunately, we just have no
way of knowing. Despite how peopleviewed Dub, whether he was a devoted
father, gentle giant, controlling andjealous boyfriend, it was verbally abusive,

(01:17:38):
or more likely a complex blend ofall of these features. There is one
truth that absolutely no one denies.Dubb loved Chance more than anything in the
world. He loved him so muchhe defended him even when he knew he
was wrong. He got into argumentsbecause of his blind love for his son.
Not one person ever believed for evenin a second, that Dub would

(01:18:00):
ever lay a violent hand on Chance. That's part of why they assumed that
Dub had to have fled with theboy, because no one can imagine him
ever harming his son. According toGay, she later learned that Dub and
been working with a lawyer and wasplanning to go back to court to fight
for custody. If indeed Chance waskilled, it seems fairly apparent that Dub

(01:18:23):
was the least likely one to beresponsible, but there is no doubt he
would have died to protect his son, and he probably did. It's a
confused, beat down, chaotic messof a case. The evidence is then
the investigation week, the theories amix of solid fact and alleged but unproven

(01:18:44):
facts. Could Dub have killed Letricia, fled with Chance and still be alive
out there somewhere. Nothing's impossible,but it seems highly improbable that neither has
ever surfaced. Thirty one years later, police theorized for two decades that they
had fled into Mexico, but somehowthey never got any reports of a blonde
haired, blue eyed, six footfour American hanging out with a kid down

(01:19:06):
there seems like the kind of thingthat might stand out, and yet they
remained convinced that that was what happened. Twenty two years later, the tables
flip, and all of a sudden, they're just as convinced that Dub and
Chance were also killed by the sameperson or persons that killed Latricia. How
why, and what information they possessedto change things remains unknown. They haven't

(01:19:29):
said anything about a person of interestor a suspect, whereas thirty years ago.
They were real quick to say Dubhad done everything when they had even
less evidence. Then It's difficult tooffer much analysis about anything pertaining to Kable
Check. We know little about him, his life, his relationships, and
how many times he's been contacted byauthorities. Much like with Dub, we

(01:19:53):
have a lot of speculation, andwhile there's a lot of smoke, there's
probably some fire there. Could hehave been inv well, I don't think
you can completely rule him out withoutadditional information. However, you can't completely
rule him in either. Unfortunately,that seems to be the nature of this
case, stagnant, frozen, contradictory, and as wide open as it was

(01:20:15):
the day Latricia's body was found.Unless someone comes forward with new information,
solid evidence is discovered, a suspectis identified, or someone outright confesses,
it appears that the murder of LeatriciaWhite and the disappearance of Lee and chance
Walker Hagen will remain open, unsolved, and growing cold. If you are

(01:20:47):
looking for more information about the murderof Latricia White and the disappearance of Dub
and chance Walker Hagen, there aremany new sites and forums discussing their case.
For this episode. The Austin AmericanStatesman and Lockhart Post Register were the
most helpful. I would also liketo recommend checking out Lost and Found blogs

(01:21:09):
as well as the Lost and Foundpodcast, as Heather has done extensive work
on this case and provided me withvital information. I'll post links to her
work in the show notes. Beyondthat, Unsolved Mysteries has done an episode
on this case, and other podcastshave also touched on it, including but
not limited to, The Trail WentCold, Criminology, and Crime Lines.

(01:21:32):
If you have any information about thiscase, please contact the Caldwell County Sheriff's
Department at five one two three nineeight six seven seven seven. It is
case number nine three one two zerosix three. You can also contact the

(01:21:54):
Texas Department of Public Safety Criminal InvestigativeServices Southern Region at nine five six five
six five seven six one one.It is case number nine three dash one
eight eight five one. You canalso contact the Texas Missing Person's Clearinghouse at

(01:22:15):
one eight hundred three four six threetwo four three, where chance is case
number A nine four zero one zerozero four. What do you believe happened?
Tweet me at Tracevpod, Email meat Trace Evidencepod at gmail dot com
or comment in the Facebook group.Just a quick reminder if you're planning to

(01:22:41):
attend crime Con this year in Nashvillefrom May thirty first through June second,
use promo code trace at crimecon dotcom to save ten percent on your pass.
That's promo code Trace at Crimecon dotcom. Now I'd like to take
a moment to thank our amazing Areonproducers, without whom Trace evidence would not

(01:23:02):
be possible. A massive thank youto Andrew Guarino, An m Bertram,
Camellia Tyler, Christine Greco, DannyRenee, Denise Dingsdaln Desiree, Lara,
Donna Buttram, Deanni Dyson, JenniferWinkler, Justin Snyder, Caroen, Morland,

(01:23:30):
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La Julier, Melissa Brakhuisen, NickMohar, Sheers, ROBERTA Jansen, Ruth
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(01:23:54):
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(01:24:14):
trace Dashevidence dot com. This concludesour look into the murder of Leatricia White
and the disappearance of dub and chanceWalkerhagen, a solvable case that has unfortunately
been very poorly investigated, but it'snever too late for the truth to be
found. I want to thank youall again for listening, and I hope
you'll join me next week for anotherunsolved case on the next episode of Trace Evidence.

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240 - Latricia White and Lee & Chance Wackerhagen

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}240 - Latricia White and Lee & Chance Wackerhagen