April 3, 2024 • 41 mins
Jenna Suffern is a Sydney-based comedian, producer and writer.
One half of comedy due Two Queers Walk Into a Bar, a writer and producer for Pedestrian.TV and VICE AU, and the star of her own one-woman show, It's Not Funny, It's Private, Jenna has helped curate a flourishing queer comedy safe space in Sydney and beyond.
We recorded this conversation live in the studio, on Gadigal land, and had a lot of fun – apologies in advance for the hijinks. We managed to discuss music by Leagues, Janelle Monáe, and G Flip.
Listen to all previous guest choices in one handy Spotify playlist, Selections from Tracks of Our Queers and follow the pod on Instagram.
Help keep Tracks of Our Queers ad-free by shouting me a coffee right here. Thank you for your support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:07):
Hello.
Welcome to tracks about quiz.
My name is Andy Gott.
And each episode I chatto a fascinating queer
person about one song,one album, and one artist.
They've soundtrack their life.
Jenna Suffern is a Sydney-basedcomedian and producer.
Her engaging presence anda flare for performance
(00:28):
has ensured her spot ismuch more than a prominent
Sydney lesbian in her words.
Bringing an off the cuff andcookie approach to her comedy.
She's a familiar voicefor pedestrian TV and vice
Australia and producers inhost the queer comedy room.
Two queers walk into a bar.
As well as her one womanshow, it's not funny.
It's private.
(00:50):
Earlier this year, Jennahelped curate and organize
The two queers comedyfestival in conjunction
with the city of Sydney.
And it's a pleasure to haveher on tracks of our careers.
For this conversation, Janetjoined me in the studio
for a raucous and sublimechat, Covering everything
from handling Heckerling togender identity Through her
wonderful musical selections.
(01:10):
Not that you wouldmind I'm sure.
But there is plenty ofswearing in this chat in
case there are other peoplearound while you listen.
Producing this podcast is verymuch a one queer band and listen
to contributions, go a huge wayin keeping the light switched
on and the show at free.
If you're interested insupporting me, you can do so
by buying me a coffee throughthe link in the show notes.
(01:32):
Alternatively leaving arating or review is also
greatly appreciated.
It's a free and easy way to helpthe podcast reach new listeners.
Thank you in advancefor your support.
Enough from me over to Jenna.
(01:54):
Jenna Saffirn, welcometo Tracks of Our Queers.
my gosh, here, we're queer,get used to it.
On a scale of one to absolutelyobsessed, where would you place
your passion for music and therole it plays in your life?
give it a Oh wow, okay.
(02:15):
look really shocked.
You're the rightguest for this show.
I don't know, I've justalways loved music, but I
think music's always hadsuch an important part of
my life, like, I feel like Ihave a soundtrack to my life.
Like, I'll look at a momentand be like, that's that song.
Also working in video and film.
(02:36):
I'm always backing trackwho's just you know?
perfect song swear, Yeahokay, well that was wonderful.
So, you're I'm from,yeah, don't judge
(02:58):
actually born in America.
Yeah, shock twist.
about this.
so I was born in America.
My mum is Australian,my dad's American.
Um, they met?
I can't, I can't remember.
They met! They did meet! Theymet.
and we're living in Florida.
(03:19):
had a, I have a twin, so had us.
And then.
One day my mum was like outsideand just a car drove past a
deer on the top, you know,cause they'd been hunting.
and she was like, Igotta get out of here.
not the placeSo we moved back to Yeah.
Well, I mean,Florida, Queensland.
What's worse.
I don't know.
They're prettythey're pretty similar.
(03:39):
we moved to Brisbanewhen I was like three
months old.
Okay, now, when you cast yourmind back to your childhood,
Mae, that, you probably don'thave any musical memories
from Florida, I'm assuming,but what was the soundtrack
to growing up at home?
Cast your mind back, what isplaying in the home, in the car.
I mean, the first thingthat comes to my head
is like all by tattoo.
(04:01):
Absolutely.
I remember having that likeillness, Having that on a so
into my dad, like my dad'shouse and just listening to
that going, what does it mean?
(04:24):
Um, that you sister.
Absolutely.
Because they're sisters.
Wait, are they?
No, that's the Veronicas.
No, but they marketed itso it was like they were
but they were also fucking.
Not the Veronicas.
Anyway, spiralling.
Okay.
Okay.
I'd like some kind of,speaking of podcasts, I'd
like, like a bit of aninvestigation into Tattoo.
(04:45):
Let's hear from them now.
What was going on there?
Yeah.
let's get them on andwelcome to the pod.
They're probablyfans of the pod, so.
We've dialed them in right now.
welcome tattoo.
Okay, so tell me about howyou started your journey to
becoming a, in your words,prominent Sydney lesbian.
Okay, well I do say it's inmy words, but the reason I
(05:06):
add that to all of my biosjust came up to me once and
was like, I know you, you'rea been called in my life.
so journey to becoming aprominent Sydney lesbian.
I moved here when I was like,well, came out as a lesbian
when I was 23 and it was like,bye, I'm moving to weeks later.
(05:28):
moved to Newtown, incredibleplace to be and baby, baby dyke.
and then what I do, just,Messed around for a bit and
then started doing comedy.
now I talk about my stage.
And prominence has, hasWell, this was before I
became a comedian too.
So this personlike, flirted with me.
of me.
I was like, am I a ho?
Okay, okay.
(05:49):
And I love this.
I've got a big name with mein the studio now, all the way
from Newtown, Janice Affirm.
how did you fall into comedy?
How did you find that path?
I had friends thatwere doing comedy.
I was also dating a Um, andit was just like, Um, and then
went, like that was a while.
(06:09):
And then Went through thisbreakup and essentially
was made redundant from myOh, right, okay.
Dumped and started doing standupcomedy all the same Okay.
So perfectWell, they would say perfect
ingredients for, you know,mining your tragedy, etc.
and that is where my brain goesto whenever I picture maybe
(06:32):
I'm watching someone on stageand or I'm watching a special
and I'm like, could I do that?
I don't know.
The overwhelming fear oftelling a joke which shites
itself and no one laughs.
ask, really horrible.
how do you work through that?
I'm on a lot of Lexapro,and I do a lot of therapy.
drag Yeah, yeah, yeah, Lexa ho!Yes.
(06:55):
It sucks and you've justkind of got to do it.
I remember a comedianjust gotta eat shit.
justgotta do it, you'll never grow.
And I was like, just really goodand I'm really well on stage.
And then I really found out thehard way that that is not true.
but you've just, yeah,you gotta suck it up.
I also like to pretend thatComedian Jenna is an actor and
it's a So if they hate it, I'mlike, well, that's not mine.
(07:19):
so, heckling.
Heckling, yeah.
I hate heckling so much, but Ialso love it because if someone
heckles the entire audiencewants you the comedian to So
all you need to do is somethingeven like, okay, or something
as long as you remain your Yes.
go back at them or ignore them,audience will be like, ahahaha.
(07:40):
Yes.
Unless of course you're beinglike problematic on stage,
Then you should be heckledand food off stage.
But that's so true.
I've never really thoughtof it so clearly that when
I have been rarely witnessedto some awful heckler, I'm
never on the heckler's side.
want to see that person succeed.
so like, it is queer.
that And that was the firstbrick that was thrown at
(08:02):
was thrown at Stonewall with theOh good, now I'm
gonna get cancelled.
my gosh, no, staying in.
Tell me about the two queers.
Now, you are known inSydney, I would say, for
curating an incredible comedyfestival earlier this year.
You've had a few, onewoman, sorry, one person.
comedy shows.
(08:23):
you have this partnershipwith your best friend,
the two queers.
How did that come about?
So, it was about maybe threeweeks into me starting doing
stand up comedy, and had Thishorrible experience on stage
where I had to follow thisperson and they were just
talking about how cocaineis what he date rape drug.
(08:43):
Horrendous.
And were people laughing?
think there was like awkwardlaughter, but then the MC just
got up and was like, okay, ournext comedian is Jenna Saffron.
And I was like, great.
I love this.
I love to feel safe.
and I got off stage andbombed because like, obviously
no one can follow that.
Like the audience isjust thinking about.
(09:03):
and that's when I met mycomedy partner, Brendan.
And he had said, I justreally wish there nights.
I was like, Oh my God, me too.
I had no job at thispoint, so it was great.
so we met the next morning forcoffee and I had booked in the
venue and, got our first lineup locked up because that's
behaviour run at it.
And Brendan cameup with to a Bar.
(09:28):
went.
That was years ago.
You spoke about safety and Weknow, inherently, and many of
the listeners of this wouldknow without needing it spout
out the importance of safetyin queer spaces, but safety for
me doesn't necessarily alwaysgo hand in hand with humour.
(09:49):
How do you navigate creating,a very safe space for the
audience to come and bethemselves while still feeling
like you're not necessarilytreading on eggshells with the
kind of humor and maybe not evenyourself but the comedians that
you're putting on the lineup.
Yeah, I think comedians, orqueer are inherently funnier.
(10:10):
And also Aunt Dickhead.
So it makes it a loteasier in that regard.
but we, I mean, as acomedian, my rule is that
I'll never punch down.
I'll always punch up.
and it's usuallypaying myself out.
Um, but we also have arule where we always kind
of see the comedians instandup show or something
(10:32):
before we would book them.
'cause justI hate to say it, but
some of us are bad.
Some of us.
Um, but what's important in thatregard is that The audience
feels safe to go, but thecomedians And so it's just so
lovely when we look around thequeer sometimes there's allies.
(10:52):
They're allowed,they're allowed.
Um, and it's queercomedians and you don't
have to explain the joke.
Like, I don't have toexplain what u hauling is.
Or lesbian bed death, you know?
They just know what it is.
I, I'm, I'm blessed to know whatu hauling is, but I actually am
not sure on lesbian bed death.
Can you please educate me?
my gosh.
So it's like a stereotypeand investigation
(11:15):
that has been goingon for centuries.
Okay, where when start dating,they'll just like, stay
then at home, hibernate,have Oh! yeah, you think
it's the other one.
So I knew the hibernating bit,but not the not having sex.
Yeah, there's somethere's a bit of a divide.
Some people think lesbian beddeath is that they hibernate,
have sex, stay at home.
(11:36):
Some think it's like hibernate,but like there's also no sex.
But I think it's just likeyou're happy with each other.
You're best friends.
Is there a podcastin this, perhaps?
god, yes, let's, we're gonna,so, oh god, we're busy,
we've got the tattoo andwe've got the lesbian bed
death investigation, okay?
okay.
So, other things I loveabout the two queers.
(11:57):
You've had quotations andreviews along the lines of
It's like a gay watering holefor Sydney queer culture.
Yeah, they are queer.
I've seen you in a watering Youhave, you have, yeah.
but in particular, the festivalyou curated earlier in this
year for Mardi Gras, um, I'msure you are aware of this,
but for listeners who aren'tsure, uh, the festival, the,
the opening gala was at this,venue called Paddington
(12:18):
Town Hall, which when Imoved to Sydney, I just saw
it as this kind rich whiteperson community space.
And I wasn't fully aware ofthat venue's queer history
until a couple of years agowhen I was thoroughly scored
in that the earliest, biggestMardi Gras parties were held
(12:39):
at Paddington Town Hall.
and they were Just debaucherousaffairs of the likes that we
can't imagine and I love theidea that all these years
later You were taking thisthoroughly queer event to
probably quite a gentrifiedVenue now and kind of taking
it back to its queer rootswell, because it was the
very first Mardi Grasincident happened there.
(13:02):
and you know what's funny?
cause we picked that spotbecause of that exact reason.
Great And after the show, Ilooked at Brendan that one.
So I'mreally hoping that everyone
listening now knows thatstory, because we were like,
(13:25):
we pick this day prior?
hire?
you did itdidn't even get to say
that one line about like,we did it for community.
Well you've got the mic now, andwe've, set the record straight.
Uh, pardon the pun.
But, what was it like puttingon your first festival?
(13:45):
I loved it.
No, it was, it was great.
It was a lot of work.
but I guess it's thatlovely moment of like
You're like, really lovely.
my girlfriend did say tome after the festival.
I'm glad we found things thatyou'll push yourself to because
(14:08):
having a full time job anddoing it but next year, which
is a learning, a learning, andand better and with more people
Absolutely.
It's healthy to find limits,boundaries, but also an
incredible achievement.
What role does musicplay in your comedy?
So, I have a toxic traitwhere I am convinced that
(14:31):
with one singing lesson Iwould be Cause I can't sing.
But I was like, Oh, I reckonjust Um, so I choose to Great.
And people are still buyingtickets.
It is weirdly.
Okay,but I like to think that comedy
just like speaking loudly withand with a like
(14:52):
really cunty backingThat's, that's what singing but
I love musical comedy and I loveand so I always try to because I
think it can tell aso much especially.
(15:13):
I love musicians, but Ialso hate them as a stand up
comedian, because they getto get up on stage and tell
a beautiful story about anex, but it's, you know, sung,
so it's nice and people areloving And it's essentially
them saying, I hate my ex,All too well Taylor Swift.
It's somethingSelling out stadiums, else.
It's something else nowthat I'm saying that.
But like, as a comedian,you've just kind of got to
(15:34):
not, obviously I wouldn'tsay that like so bluntly.
Like, my ex is a cunt,because that's not funny.
But like, you've got to think oflike, I think you have to work
harder to like, I don't knowwhat I'm trying to say here.
I just think musicians have itOkay, you heard it here
first on Trucks of Arquees.
Jennifer Fern is anti musician.
Well, yeah, because when I dostand up and when I do my hour
show, it's not like, word,word, laugh, word, word, laugh.
(15:58):
Like I like to more oflike a story with laughter
And then what I love aboutmusic is, I can cut that
world and go, Into anotherworld.
And really be like, we'rebeing kooky and silly now.
I'm pretending I'm ahousewife who watches
reality TV, you know.
And then we go back tome on a mic speaking.
It's a bookend.
Bookend! It's gorgeous.
(16:19):
Love it.
Okay, right.
Well, we're going to jumpinto your selections.
This entire podcast purpose isto figure out and understand
the relationship that queerpeople have with music.
Before we get into yourselections could you
summarize the role thatmusic plays in your life as
specifically a queer person?
Well, it's the lesbian longing,Just the constant, like,
(16:42):
Craving?
someone like Moona canjust perfectly sum that up.
whenever I'm sad, I will music.
I'm that person.
Like, I'm You lean gonna,lean in hard to and just
really hurt myself bylistening to these sad but
the same goes when I'm happy.
If I'm like, I'm going out,I need to pump myself up.
(17:05):
I'm going to put on,example that's not Kylie?
Well, you've pickedKylie now, so Yeah.
you draw strength,you find solace.
The The queer themes.
Tell me about the trackyou selected and why.
get thought it's so hard, Iknow you know this because
(17:31):
I get this feedbacka lot from guests.
They all hate it.
You all hate it.
so hard because I've gotso much and it always and I was
no, I need to think what islike these moments that have
spoken to So this song, whenI was thinking, I was like,
Oh, it's gotta be So You'reprobably wondering, Jenna,
why have you picked this song?
(17:52):
It is by a coupleof straight white
get enough airtime.
They don't get enough airtime.
So what are they doingon Jenna prominent Sydney
lesbian's list of songs?
So I want to take you backto a 22 year old Jenna who's
still living in Brisbaneand thinks she's straight.
(18:13):
was watching Orange isthe New Black on Netflix.
And, have you seen it?
Absolutely.
every episode.
well let me paint a picture.
Alex Is it Piper?
Alex and Piper.
Yeah.
Okay, let picture.
Piper has been downstairsin lockup by herself
in solitude for days.
(18:34):
Alex is upstairsthinking about her.
For those that don'tknow, they are exes who
are now in the same jail.
Yeah, it's complicated.
Piper has had time toreflect about her life.
She is let out of solitude,comes out, and then this
song starts playing.
It's called Walking Backwardsby Leagues, and it's just
(19:03):
this moment where she lookssad and you can just see in
her eyes all of a second,like, all of a second.
And it's like, boom,boom, boom, boom.
And she's just startswalking and she sees Alex
and Alex is like, Oh myGod, great, you're out.
She doesn't say anything, grabsher hand, walks her through
the prison into the chapeland they start going at it.
(19:26):
And just as they start goingat it, the lyrics go, I've been
looking for a new emotion, boom.
And in that moment, Iwent, What the fuck?! that exact
(19:47):
moment, I shit you not, I went,Oh no, I think I'm a lesbian.
I think after that telling,I might be as well.
Welcome.
just remember like beingso perplexed, aroused,
excited at the future.
Like, and just the fact that itwas like, I didn't even realise
this, but that's so lesbian.
(20:07):
Like you're in prison with yourex and you're going to hook up.
it.
Being taken back to thattime, that was really when
like Netflix just announceditself to the world.
I've actually never donea repeat watching of
Orange is the New Black.
I've watched every episodebut I think now is the time.
Well I can tell you I'vewatched that three minute
section multiple timesbet you have.
(20:28):
but it's, especially good.
But now the song doessound like the future.
it's like a hopeful song.
It's like we're moving forward.
That combined with what youwere watching on screen.
I am curious to the cogs thatwere ticking in your brain as
to, oh okay this is it now,this is me, that's my future.
What was going on outsideof Orange is the New Black?
(20:50):
You know, I'm sure Orange isthe New Black did turn a lot of
people gay, but what else wasgoing on in your life at that
I think, like, I didn't know.
I just wasn't until I startedworking at Grilled on West
Cross Road in Brisbane,and I met two queer people.
Yeah, that's, you know,what they say about
a kidney fries, gay Yes.
and so I always had crusheson my best friends but time,
(21:16):
such a gay thing but I thinkit just, I kept pushing
it down, pushing it down.
I was like, this isn't normal.
It's fine.
It's not real.
Yes, I've had sex with sevenand a half men, but it's fine.
because thatcan we talk about the Yeah.
Okay, so I said seven and ahalf, but I realized that's what
I say now, because I did haveOkay, okay.
(21:37):
Got it.
because I wanted to have fiancé.
Okay, got it.
Because like, yeah, Ikept trying to have sex
with men and I hated it.
I was like, nah,it's a me problem.
and then I just saw thatand it was so freeing
and just so cool and hot.
And I was like, I wearglasses, Alex wears glasses.
I'm Alex, and I'm gonna go outthere and hook up with a girl.
(21:58):
And then, I saw that, didn'tcome out for a while, but
told all my friends I wasgonna have a and I made up
a theme song for it, becausemusic plays a part of my life,
it it was, Jenna'slesbian experience!
It was more like a catchphrase.
I was like, I'mAnd I was like, I'm gonna
go out and I'm gonna go kissand have sex with a girl.
(22:19):
And everyone was like, Ithink you might be a lesbian.
And I was like, no, no, no.
no, no, no.
What are the chances of youjust jumping into the studio,
maybe and record, layingdown some tracks for that?
And we can insertthat into the podcast.
I think that's got legs.
God we're busy.
you feel when youhear that song now?
Oh my god it makes me so happy.
(22:39):
Like I just listened to it andI'm that's like such a cool to
be able to, and I talk abouthow like music is that like
soundtrack of your life, butlike to think back at little
baby Jenna, even though I wasquite old to be coming out at
23, but thinking of that, like,that's when I knew, and that's
when I admitted to myself, andI was scared, but look at me
now, I'm shaking my ass on stageat Paddington Town Hall where
(23:02):
the first Mardi Gras happened.
but not telling the audienceBut not telling the audience
because I have ADHD!still No, I think that is just
so wonderful because, look,I did the research, I quickly
put two and two together,really, Orange is the New Black,
but it's a coming out song.
(23:22):
And coming out songs are someof the most special songs in
our entire lives because ina way it's like day zero of
the person that you are now.
and I want to thank thosetwo straight men for
helping me realise Jenna'sa fan that I'm a lesbian.
tell me about the albumyou picked and why.
why.
Oh, okay.
I also very much struggled withthis because I was like, there's
(23:43):
so many albums that I listen to.
Phoebe Bridges is my like, naptime, sleep time, sad time.
Moona, Girl in Red, like there'sso many, like, possibilities.
I was like, no, none of thesehave a story, they're just like,
Jenna is a sad And then I waslike, oh my god, I've got it!
Dirty Computer by Janelle Monae.
(24:13):
she released a visual albumwhich is just, because I love
a music video, but to tellan entire story, like from
start and it was queer andhot the way you make me feel
came out, and I was goingthrough a bit of a like Weird
time in my life, let's say.
I'd just broken up withmy girlfriend, first First
(24:36):
first of, two and a halfMet in Brisbane?
No, in Sydney.
Sydney?
Yeah.
But she was from Brisbane.
Funny story.
Anyway, yeah, shut up, John.
I'll tell the She worked at theYeah, she was the other queer!
Um, we, yes, met in,Anyway, whatever.
Broke up and I had the biggest,fattest crush which we all
(25:00):
know is going to be a problem,especially when they've never
hooked up with a girl before.
It can It can only well.
It can only end well.
and this song came out andthat's when we were kind
of, we were really flirty.
We were smooching.
Like I was like this.
Yeah.
Oh, sorry.
I really missed that.
wait.
(25:30):
Yeah, like she'd never hookedup with a girl until me.
Yeah.
and how, was this at a party?
Was it at the park?
so we We had a biggroup of mutual friends.
Um, we played in the samefucking netball Um, and I just
like, I remember from the momentI met her, I was like, Oh fuck.
Like I'm in trouble.
Um, because she's straight.
(25:52):
Um, and I didn't learnanything from Um, but we,
I kind of just like laidit all out there one night.
Yes, I was drunk.
That's not important.
And I said, look, I need tostop hanging out with you.
I'm really struggling dohave such a crush on you.
I really want to be butlike, I don't think I can.
And she said, What if I did too?
(26:15):
I feel like I'm watching a film.
I know and I said oh my god,because you know how you always
like picture it in your head?
You're like, this iswhat I want to happen.
But then it actually happened.
I was like oh f areWere you just like, sorry, what?
Can you repeat that?
I texted her this yeah?
So you got the screenshots.
Yeah and then I was like, shouldI come over, she was like yeah.
(26:38):
And just made out that night.
Wealso then got matching tattoos.
Okay, okay,The U Haul has arrived.
Yeah, but then it waskind of this like,
awkward she was like, obviouslywas dealing then with her own
sexual anyway, so we were goingthis back and forth like,
will they, won't they smoochwhen we're drunk, etc, etc.
(27:02):
I know! the lesbian longing!Um, and of course I just
put myself through it causeI was like, nah, it's going
Um, and then Janelle Monáecame out with this song and
I just remember sending herthe if you haven't seen it's
about Janelle with Tessafucking Thompson and this guy.
Um, but it's all about howJanelle Monáe is essentially
coming out as beingis essentially coming
(27:22):
out as being polyamorous.
Absolutely, and it's so cool.
It's like, that's the way youmake me feel and it's like,
she's being dragged betweenthis girl and this guy.
And it's so cool.
So hot and so cool and thelighting is so bisexual and I
just sent it to her and I waslike This says everything and
then like not long after thatWe started like actually and
dating and just like we're bothobsessed with this album And
(27:43):
it really became like the albumof our lives Relationship, I
kind of feel like it makes melook back and go, that was a
really hard and shitty time.
And yes, it also ended badlyand that's fine, but it was like
this nice moment, especially forher too, with dealing with her
I don't want to do that again.
I don't want to be someone'scoming out, but it was like just
the perfect album to then be avisual album that we could sit
(28:05):
down and watch and be like, hot.
That's Tessa Thompson'sin this and she wouldn't
be anything shit.
And they were alsodating in real life.
Sorry, wait.
Tessa and Janelle.
Okay, well I didn't know that.
I yeah.
Oh, I went intothe deep lore of it all.
Okay.
okay.
(28:31):
I've got so manythoughts on this album.
I adore this album.
I adore Janelle Monáe.
I think it's probably, Ilove her really early stuff,
but I think this is probablyher strongest, like, most
cohesive body of work.
Like, no skip.
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah, nah, we were.
So it ended in the sensethat she was like, I think,
(28:53):
enough, we work too much withSo it ended in the sense
that she was like, I think,just sexuality, like Um,
so it did break it off, whichI, that, you know how they
say, like, your first loveis like your puppy love.
It teaches you about love.
And your second heartbreak.
You were going to die.
Oh, I was broken.
But I think it's also becauseit was such a like long,
(29:16):
experience of like thatlonging and that will they,
won't they, will they, what'shappening, I don't know, and
like The tension.
and that can also beconstrued I think with love
of that like excitementthe depressing emotion.
It's like well this is whatlove is because this is
exciting, what's happening, Idon't know, do they like me?
And the hormones, the Ohhorrible.
Exhausting.
Exhausting.
I had a It'snap when we broke up.
(29:38):
Um, but yeah so we, I actedbadly, I think, in the breakup
with the person.
Yeah, I don't know.
I just like the constanttexting, constant calling, drunk
darling, honey, you love me.
Um, but then we got throughit, became friends and
now she works at my work.
And I mean, we were hangingout the other We joke about
(29:59):
it all, obviously, And doyou want to know what this is?
Girl P W R, bitch! W LWhich I also think really
sums up the album because it'sabout pink and it's about,
you know, being a woman in ashitty world and being queer.
(30:21):
Yeah.
So that's how we got Girl Purr.
Janice Affirm, thank you forsharing that incredible I did
not see that story coming.
Now, I think Janelle Monáe wasalways from day one, Somewhat
queer coded in, of course, theandrogynous appearance early
on, um, always had a huge,uh, section of queer fans.
(30:42):
But like you've already said, itreally was on this album where
she kind of came out outrightand said, anything, baby.
I love it all.
And you hear that in the music,you see that in the visuals.
And, um, The media shewas doing in that time.
She was being very explicit inlike, I am polyamorous you say?
she considers the album tobe an homage to women and the
(31:04):
spectrum of sexual identitiesand that is quite obvious
aside from Make Me Feel, whatwould you say are your top
standouts from the Grimes.
(31:26):
I remember being in New York.
Oh my god, this is so lesbian.
Okay.
I was, so, yeah.
won't say a name.
I won't say that.
Um, the girl the personThe person.
I work with rhymeswith shmallex.
Yeah.
Um, so we decided to beofficial girlfriends.
(31:50):
Um, and then I was,and you went to New to New York.
with my ex Ah! The first one.
it in.
We'd the puppy love ex.
Yeah, the puppy love ex.
Okay.
we're like best friendsto this day still.
Um, so we went to, so I wassitting in New York with my
ex, texting my girlfriend andcause Janelle was starting
to like drop music videoslike throughout this time
(32:13):
and she released Pink andobviously if you've seen the
visual, I was like, vaginasVAGINAS!
just remember sending it to her.
And it was like2am Australia time.
And I'm just like waitingfor her to wake up.
I'm you need to watch this.
And then she had to go to work.
I was like, you needto prioritize this now.
Um, so yes, definitely Pink.
and I like that.
(32:44):
I love, I like, I like, II like that.
Yeah, I like that!Cause it's like, also
about that, I mean, lookingback at our relationship,
like, it doesn't matter.
It's like, I like that.
Yeah.
Who cares what, who fuckingcares about genitals?
It's chill.
Um, the artist.
Tell me about the artistand why you picked them.
pick them?
Well this one's quitestereotypical I feel,
but I'm leaning into it.
(33:04):
You haven't done or saidanything stereotypical
though in this episode soYeah, well I think it's time.
It's timetime to remind us that you are a
lesbian.
Yes, and of course myartist is G Flip.
(33:27):
Shock.
Horror.
You did the, youfulfilled the brief.
yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah,I just didn't think that if
people heard me addressedas prominent Sydney lesbian,
they're like, but is she?
But is she?
And now this will reallyTell me about G Flip.
So, always been a G Flip fan.
and then just them coming outas non binary and with having
(33:49):
songs like, I'll be your man.
Like I just think itwas this really cool
affirming thing for me.
And cause I'm not, I'mnot full non binary, but
I'm like definitely not.
A she, her, you know, youdip your toes.
dip my toes.
I'm like, what amI, what's my mood today?
Like I don't feel more feminine.
I don't do masculine.
And I definitely in love my butbut not all the time.
(34:10):
So I definitely go by,she, they, it's the she
they of it all, you know?
So when G comes out withlike songs like this,
it's like, fuck yeah.
Like Be your best self.
Um, and also they'rejust so cool.
Just like looking,they're hot, they're cool.
They're datingChrishell from Selling
something.
I was waiting.
I wasn't gonna bringChrishell up, but my
(34:31):
god, when that got announcedI was like, you're joking.
Like this has to be aIt sounds like something
that an internetalgorithm joke maker spat Yes,
Like Aussie non binarydrummer G Flip marries, an
actress cum selling sunsetreal estate agent who was
named after a petrol station.
(34:52):
Yeah,Yeah, that's love, love is love.
If you can date a nonbinary you can date Simmons.
stations and here we go.
That's the queer agenda.
I just, I don't know.
I just have always lovedall of their music, like
(35:14):
throughout their careerand just seeing them
They're like so popularnow and it's cool.
And they just, allof their fashion.
I'm like, Oh, that's what I,that's what I want to look like.
I would like that.
Um, can see you've broughtyour drum kit with you today, so
Well, I'm going to beperforming, um, Jenna's
lesbian experience onthe drums later on today.
(35:34):
Um, And just their confidence.
Yes.
And their music is just so funand there's so many different
emotions and you can just tellthat it's so lesbian, you know?
It's so lesbian, all ofthe lyrics Um, I don't
know how eloquently, I justthem.
Yep, and that's all you need towhat you need
(35:55):
Uh, G Flip, I should knowmore about their in the levels
of their international fame.
I I should have done myresearch, but I wonder
how big they are in likethe UK and US for example.
I think definitelybeing married to
Kelle, has it helps?
Hell, it won't hurt.
Chris, helpLet's leave those to me.
(36:25):
Shout out to G Flip.
Shout out to, I think we'veall been witness to their
extraordinary growth in fame andsuccess over the last few years.
The talent is there.
I wasn't deeply familiarwith the music until I
binge listened today.
And there's tunes,there's bangers.
Do you have anystandout favorites?
oh, how could I not mention GFlip covering Cruel Summer by
(36:46):
Taylor Swift and changing thepronouns to be about a girl?
Oh my God.
Okay.
Cause sue me.
I love Taylor Swift.
I didn't, I didn't put it on mylist, but I love Taylor Swift.
Went to the concert.
You know, stopattacking me, Andy.
(37:09):
Andy.
With my eyeballs.
Um, so obviouslythat's a huge, one.
gay for me, it's aboutbeing which is very
similar to mine.
That's very you, yes.
And be your man.
Be your man.
Yeah, hot.
Thank you very much for sharing.
I've been on a journey.
I've been on a verylesbian journey, which
(37:31):
is what I signed up for.
Have you got whatyou signed up for?
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
I, um, Yeah, I was thinking,I usually talk about
1x always, not always.
She's gone mad at me once fornot talking about her and I
didn't talk about her until now.
And I think that's growth.
Okay, that is growth.
not going to get mad.
Yep, um, now, and I'll alsojust finally acknowledge,
am I stereotyping here?
(37:52):
Yes.
Am I allowed to because I'vegot a queer music podcast?
Maybe.
We're, I'd say we're onlike the younger end of
the millennial spectrum.
So we're still, you know, weknow a lot of, you know, older
music, but we're still learning.
I do have to declare thatin the last few months, I've
been getting into KD Lang.
(38:14):
on your journey of lesbianmusical heritage, how,
how deep or shallow areyou into your own kd lang?
Because it's inevitable.
It will happen.
I would say I'm shallow.
However, have I or have youseen, this is hard because
it's a podcast, but mycomedy partner and I did,
I've seen it.
Yeah.
(38:34):
Impersonate them.
And also just, when I,you know, when I was
Impersonate them and next timewhen you're invited back on,
I'm not putting words intoyour mouth, but you know which
artist to back on,you know, that's not the kind of
putting words into your that.
(38:56):
So talkYou're not a real artist.
Thanks.
Who had ithas just Sorry, I'm not
going to talk about pink ona lesbian podcast, but she
has just smashed some absurdAustralian record
for stadiums filled.
She has just smashedabsurd Australian labels.
(39:19):
You've got G flip and P flip.
G Flip.
Thank you.
Jenna, I'm, I'm,I'm auditioning.
I want the three queers.
very Great, thank you very much.
what are you workingon next, Jenna?
on?
Oh, I'm doing a show for Irealized I accidentally plugged
it at the start in a way.
(39:39):
Um, it's called It'sNot Funny, It's Private.
And it's based on the weekthat I did stand up for
the first time, got maderedundant from my job, and
my girlfriend that Um, so Idid it for Sydney Fringe last
year, not to brag, sold out.
Um, and I'm doing twomore shows, um, for Sydney
Comedy Festival in May.
And then I'm leaving andI'm moving to Melbourne.
So everyone has to comeif they want to see to see me.
(40:01):
You really heard it herefirst, I'll probably
Haven't even been told work yet.
here! Nope! HR! Um, One ofthe most exciting things I
can imagine about, um, puttingtogether a show and putting
it out to one audience andthen later on doing it to
like, you know, a bigger oneis the, maybe the improvements
that you make in between.
Have you tweaked the show a lotfrom first, you know Can you
(40:23):
say that, becauseyou better believe in numbers
added.
Ah! Now there'll be not one, nottwo, but three musical
numbers in someone thatfamously can't sing.
But that won't letthem stop them.
I couldn't think of a betterplace to end this conversation.
No, we're wrapping it up.
Um, Jenna Saffirn, thankyou so much for your tracks.
And, you are queer, right?
(40:45):
I just do it, to get funding.
So I'm I'm actuallystraight, but I like get it.
All right.
Thank you very much.
That's okay.
That You can find Jenna and thetwo queers at links and
this episode show notes,including links to where you
can see her upcoming show.
It's not funny.
It's private.
Tracks of our queers ispresented and produced by me.
(41:07):
Andy got entirely onunseated, Gadigal and
Ngarigo Aboriginal land.
You can email me yourthoughts, recommendations
or gay rumblings to tracksof our careers@gmail.com.
See you next time.
Hello.
Welcome to tracks about quiz.
My name is Andy Gott.
And each episode I chatto a fascinating queer
person about one song,one album, and one artist.
They've soundtrack their life.
Jenna Suffern is a Sydney-basedcomedian and producer.
Her engaging presence anda flare for performance
(00:28):
has ensured her spot ismuch more than a prominent
Sydney lesbian in her words.
Bringing an off the cuff andcookie approach to her comedy.
She's a familiar voicefor pedestrian TV and vice
Australia and producers inhost the queer comedy room.
Two queers walk into a bar.
As well as her one womanshow, it's not funny.
It's private.
(00:50):
Earlier this year, Jennahelped curate and organize
The two queers comedyfestival in conjunction
with the city of Sydney.
And it's a pleasure to haveher on tracks of our careers.
For this conversation, Janetjoined me in the studio
for a raucous and sublimechat, Covering everything
from handling Heckerling togender identity Through her
wonderful musical selections.
(01:10):
Not that you wouldmind I'm sure.
But there is plenty ofswearing in this chat in
case there are other peoplearound while you listen.
Producing this podcast is verymuch a one queer band and listen
to contributions, go a huge wayin keeping the light switched
on and the show at free.
If you're interested insupporting me, you can do so
by buying me a coffee throughthe link in the show notes.
(01:32):
Alternatively leaving arating or review is also
greatly appreciated.
It's a free and easy way to helpthe podcast reach new listeners.
Thank you in advancefor your support.
Enough from me over to Jenna.
(01:54):
Jenna Saffirn, welcometo Tracks of Our Queers.
my gosh, here, we're queer,get used to it.
On a scale of one to absolutelyobsessed, where would you place
your passion for music and therole it plays in your life?
give it a Oh wow, okay.
(02:15):
look really shocked.
You're the rightguest for this show.
I don't know, I've justalways loved music, but I
think music's always hadsuch an important part of
my life, like, I feel like Ihave a soundtrack to my life.
Like, I'll look at a momentand be like, that's that song.
Also working in video and film.
(02:36):
I'm always backing trackwho's just you know?
perfect song swear, Yeahokay, well that was wonderful.
So, you're I'm from,yeah, don't judge
(02:58):
actually born in America.
Yeah, shock twist.
about this.
so I was born in America.
My mum is Australian,my dad's American.
Um, they met?
I can't, I can't remember.
They met! They did meet! Theymet.
and we're living in Florida.
(03:19):
had a, I have a twin, so had us.
And then.
One day my mum was like outsideand just a car drove past a
deer on the top, you know,cause they'd been hunting.
and she was like, Igotta get out of here.
not the placeSo we moved back to Yeah.
Well, I mean,Florida, Queensland.
What's worse.
I don't know.
They're prettythey're pretty similar.
(03:39):
we moved to Brisbanewhen I was like three
months old.
Okay, now, when you cast yourmind back to your childhood,
Mae, that, you probably don'thave any musical memories
from Florida, I'm assuming,but what was the soundtrack
to growing up at home?
Cast your mind back, what isplaying in the home, in the car.
I mean, the first thingthat comes to my head
is like all by tattoo.
(04:01):
Absolutely.
I remember having that likeillness, Having that on a so
into my dad, like my dad'shouse and just listening to
that going, what does it mean?
(04:24):
Um, that you sister.
Absolutely.
Because they're sisters.
Wait, are they?
No, that's the Veronicas.
No, but they marketed itso it was like they were
but they were also fucking.
Not the Veronicas.
Anyway, spiralling.
Okay.
Okay.
I'd like some kind of,speaking of podcasts, I'd
like, like a bit of aninvestigation into Tattoo.
(04:45):
Let's hear from them now.
What was going on there?
Yeah.
let's get them on andwelcome to the pod.
They're probablyfans of the pod, so.
We've dialed them in right now.
welcome tattoo.
Okay, so tell me about howyou started your journey to
becoming a, in your words,prominent Sydney lesbian.
Okay, well I do say it's inmy words, but the reason I
(05:06):
add that to all of my biosjust came up to me once and
was like, I know you, you'rea been called in my life.
so journey to becoming aprominent Sydney lesbian.
I moved here when I was like,well, came out as a lesbian
when I was 23 and it was like,bye, I'm moving to weeks later.
(05:28):
moved to Newtown, incredibleplace to be and baby, baby dyke.
and then what I do, just,Messed around for a bit and
then started doing comedy.
now I talk about my stage.
And prominence has, hasWell, this was before I
became a comedian too.
So this personlike, flirted with me.
of me.
I was like, am I a ho?
Okay, okay.
(05:49):
And I love this.
I've got a big name with mein the studio now, all the way
from Newtown, Janice Affirm.
how did you fall into comedy?
How did you find that path?
I had friends thatwere doing comedy.
I was also dating a Um, andit was just like, Um, and then
went, like that was a while.
(06:09):
And then Went through thisbreakup and essentially
was made redundant from myOh, right, okay.
Dumped and started doing standupcomedy all the same Okay.
So perfectWell, they would say perfect
ingredients for, you know,mining your tragedy, etc.
and that is where my brain goesto whenever I picture maybe
(06:32):
I'm watching someone on stageand or I'm watching a special
and I'm like, could I do that?
I don't know.
The overwhelming fear oftelling a joke which shites
itself and no one laughs.
ask, really horrible.
how do you work through that?
I'm on a lot of Lexapro,and I do a lot of therapy.
drag Yeah, yeah, yeah, Lexa ho!Yes.
(06:55):
It sucks and you've justkind of got to do it.
I remember a comedianjust gotta eat shit.
justgotta do it, you'll never grow.
And I was like, just really goodand I'm really well on stage.
And then I really found out thehard way that that is not true.
but you've just, yeah,you gotta suck it up.
I also like to pretend thatComedian Jenna is an actor and
it's a So if they hate it, I'mlike, well, that's not mine.
(07:19):
so, heckling.
Heckling, yeah.
I hate heckling so much, but Ialso love it because if someone
heckles the entire audiencewants you the comedian to So
all you need to do is somethingeven like, okay, or something
as long as you remain your Yes.
go back at them or ignore them,audience will be like, ahahaha.
(07:40):
Yes.
Unless of course you're beinglike problematic on stage,
Then you should be heckledand food off stage.
But that's so true.
I've never really thoughtof it so clearly that when
I have been rarely witnessedto some awful heckler, I'm
never on the heckler's side.
want to see that person succeed.
so like, it is queer.
that And that was the firstbrick that was thrown at
(08:02):
was thrown at Stonewall with theOh good, now I'm
gonna get cancelled.
my gosh, no, staying in.
Tell me about the two queers.
Now, you are known inSydney, I would say, for
curating an incredible comedyfestival earlier this year.
You've had a few, onewoman, sorry, one person.
comedy shows.
(08:23):
you have this partnershipwith your best friend,
the two queers.
How did that come about?
So, it was about maybe threeweeks into me starting doing
stand up comedy, and had Thishorrible experience on stage
where I had to follow thisperson and they were just
talking about how cocaineis what he date rape drug.
(08:43):
Horrendous.
And were people laughing?
think there was like awkwardlaughter, but then the MC just
got up and was like, okay, ournext comedian is Jenna Saffron.
And I was like, great.
I love this.
I love to feel safe.
and I got off stage andbombed because like, obviously
no one can follow that.
Like the audience isjust thinking about.
(09:03):
and that's when I met mycomedy partner, Brendan.
And he had said, I justreally wish there nights.
I was like, Oh my God, me too.
I had no job at thispoint, so it was great.
so we met the next morning forcoffee and I had booked in the
venue and, got our first lineup locked up because that's
behaviour run at it.
And Brendan cameup with to a Bar.
(09:28):
went.
That was years ago.
You spoke about safety and Weknow, inherently, and many of
the listeners of this wouldknow without needing it spout
out the importance of safetyin queer spaces, but safety for
me doesn't necessarily alwaysgo hand in hand with humour.
(09:49):
How do you navigate creating,a very safe space for the
audience to come and bethemselves while still feeling
like you're not necessarilytreading on eggshells with the
kind of humor and maybe not evenyourself but the comedians that
you're putting on the lineup.
Yeah, I think comedians, orqueer are inherently funnier.
(10:10):
And also Aunt Dickhead.
So it makes it a loteasier in that regard.
but we, I mean, as acomedian, my rule is that
I'll never punch down.
I'll always punch up.
and it's usuallypaying myself out.
Um, but we also have arule where we always kind
of see the comedians instandup show or something
(10:32):
before we would book them.
'cause justI hate to say it, but
some of us are bad.
Some of us.
Um, but what's important in thatregard is that The audience
feels safe to go, but thecomedians And so it's just so
lovely when we look around thequeer sometimes there's allies.
(10:52):
They're allowed,they're allowed.
Um, and it's queercomedians and you don't
have to explain the joke.
Like, I don't have toexplain what u hauling is.
Or lesbian bed death, you know?
They just know what it is.
I, I'm, I'm blessed to know whatu hauling is, but I actually am
not sure on lesbian bed death.
Can you please educate me?
my gosh.
So it's like a stereotypeand investigation
(11:15):
that has been goingon for centuries.
Okay, where when start dating,they'll just like, stay
then at home, hibernate,have Oh! yeah, you think
it's the other one.
So I knew the hibernating bit,but not the not having sex.
Yeah, there's somethere's a bit of a divide.
Some people think lesbian beddeath is that they hibernate,
have sex, stay at home.
(11:36):
Some think it's like hibernate,but like there's also no sex.
But I think it's just likeyou're happy with each other.
You're best friends.
Is there a podcastin this, perhaps?
god, yes, let's, we're gonna,so, oh god, we're busy,
we've got the tattoo andwe've got the lesbian bed
death investigation, okay?
okay.
So, other things I loveabout the two queers.
(11:57):
You've had quotations andreviews along the lines of
It's like a gay watering holefor Sydney queer culture.
Yeah, they are queer.
I've seen you in a watering Youhave, you have, yeah.
but in particular, the festivalyou curated earlier in this
year for Mardi Gras, um, I'msure you are aware of this,
but for listeners who aren'tsure, uh, the festival, the,
the opening gala was at this,venue called Paddington
(12:18):
Town Hall, which when Imoved to Sydney, I just saw
it as this kind rich whiteperson community space.
And I wasn't fully aware ofthat venue's queer history
until a couple of years agowhen I was thoroughly scored
in that the earliest, biggestMardi Gras parties were held
(12:39):
at Paddington Town Hall.
and they were Just debaucherousaffairs of the likes that we
can't imagine and I love theidea that all these years
later You were taking thisthoroughly queer event to
probably quite a gentrifiedVenue now and kind of taking
it back to its queer rootswell, because it was the
very first Mardi Grasincident happened there.
(13:02):
and you know what's funny?
cause we picked that spotbecause of that exact reason.
Great And after the show, Ilooked at Brendan that one.
So I'mreally hoping that everyone
listening now knows thatstory, because we were like,
(13:25):
we pick this day prior?
hire?
you did itdidn't even get to say
that one line about like,we did it for community.
Well you've got the mic now, andwe've, set the record straight.
Uh, pardon the pun.
But, what was it like puttingon your first festival?
(13:45):
I loved it.
No, it was, it was great.
It was a lot of work.
but I guess it's thatlovely moment of like
You're like, really lovely.
my girlfriend did say tome after the festival.
I'm glad we found things thatyou'll push yourself to because
(14:08):
having a full time job anddoing it but next year, which
is a learning, a learning, andand better and with more people
Absolutely.
It's healthy to find limits,boundaries, but also an
incredible achievement.
What role does musicplay in your comedy?
So, I have a toxic traitwhere I am convinced that
(14:31):
with one singing lesson Iwould be Cause I can't sing.
But I was like, Oh, I reckonjust Um, so I choose to Great.
And people are still buyingtickets.
It is weirdly.
Okay,but I like to think that comedy
just like speaking loudly withand with a like
(14:52):
really cunty backingThat's, that's what singing but
I love musical comedy and I loveand so I always try to because I
think it can tell aso much especially.
(15:13):
I love musicians, but Ialso hate them as a stand up
comedian, because they getto get up on stage and tell
a beautiful story about anex, but it's, you know, sung,
so it's nice and people areloving And it's essentially
them saying, I hate my ex,All too well Taylor Swift.
It's somethingSelling out stadiums, else.
It's something else nowthat I'm saying that.
But like, as a comedian,you've just kind of got to
(15:34):
not, obviously I wouldn'tsay that like so bluntly.
Like, my ex is a cunt,because that's not funny.
But like, you've got to think oflike, I think you have to work
harder to like, I don't knowwhat I'm trying to say here.
I just think musicians have itOkay, you heard it here
first on Trucks of Arquees.
Jennifer Fern is anti musician.
Well, yeah, because when I dostand up and when I do my hour
show, it's not like, word,word, laugh, word, word, laugh.
(15:58):
Like I like to more oflike a story with laughter
And then what I love aboutmusic is, I can cut that
world and go, Into anotherworld.
And really be like, we'rebeing kooky and silly now.
I'm pretending I'm ahousewife who watches
reality TV, you know.
And then we go back tome on a mic speaking.
It's a bookend.
Bookend! It's gorgeous.
(16:19):
Love it.
Okay, right.
Well, we're going to jumpinto your selections.
This entire podcast purpose isto figure out and understand
the relationship that queerpeople have with music.
Before we get into yourselections could you
summarize the role thatmusic plays in your life as
specifically a queer person?
Well, it's the lesbian longing,Just the constant, like,
(16:42):
Craving?
someone like Moona canjust perfectly sum that up.
whenever I'm sad, I will music.
I'm that person.
Like, I'm You lean gonna,lean in hard to and just
really hurt myself bylistening to these sad but
the same goes when I'm happy.
If I'm like, I'm going out,I need to pump myself up.
(17:05):
I'm going to put on,example that's not Kylie?
Well, you've pickedKylie now, so Yeah.
you draw strength,you find solace.
The The queer themes.
Tell me about the trackyou selected and why.
get thought it's so hard, Iknow you know this because
(17:31):
I get this feedbacka lot from guests.
They all hate it.
You all hate it.
so hard because I've gotso much and it always and I was
no, I need to think what islike these moments that have
spoken to So this song, whenI was thinking, I was like,
Oh, it's gotta be So You'reprobably wondering, Jenna,
why have you picked this song?
(17:52):
It is by a coupleof straight white
get enough airtime.
They don't get enough airtime.
So what are they doingon Jenna prominent Sydney
lesbian's list of songs?
So I want to take you backto a 22 year old Jenna who's
still living in Brisbaneand thinks she's straight.
(18:13):
was watching Orange isthe New Black on Netflix.
And, have you seen it?
Absolutely.
every episode.
well let me paint a picture.
Alex Is it Piper?
Alex and Piper.
Yeah.
Okay, let picture.
Piper has been downstairsin lockup by herself
in solitude for days.
(18:34):
Alex is upstairsthinking about her.
For those that don'tknow, they are exes who
are now in the same jail.
Yeah, it's complicated.
Piper has had time toreflect about her life.
She is let out of solitude,comes out, and then this
song starts playing.
It's called Walking Backwardsby Leagues, and it's just
(19:03):
this moment where she lookssad and you can just see in
her eyes all of a second,like, all of a second.
And it's like, boom,boom, boom, boom.
And she's just startswalking and she sees Alex
and Alex is like, Oh myGod, great, you're out.
She doesn't say anything, grabsher hand, walks her through
the prison into the chapeland they start going at it.
(19:26):
And just as they start goingat it, the lyrics go, I've been
looking for a new emotion, boom.
And in that moment, Iwent, What the fuck?! that exact
(19:47):
moment, I shit you not, I went,Oh no, I think I'm a lesbian.
I think after that telling,I might be as well.
Welcome.
just remember like beingso perplexed, aroused,
excited at the future.
Like, and just the fact that itwas like, I didn't even realise
this, but that's so lesbian.
(20:07):
Like you're in prison with yourex and you're going to hook up.
it.
Being taken back to thattime, that was really when
like Netflix just announceditself to the world.
I've actually never donea repeat watching of
Orange is the New Black.
I've watched every episodebut I think now is the time.
Well I can tell you I'vewatched that three minute
section multiple timesbet you have.
(20:28):
but it's, especially good.
But now the song doessound like the future.
it's like a hopeful song.
It's like we're moving forward.
That combined with what youwere watching on screen.
I am curious to the cogs thatwere ticking in your brain as
to, oh okay this is it now,this is me, that's my future.
What was going on outsideof Orange is the New Black?
(20:50):
You know, I'm sure Orange isthe New Black did turn a lot of
people gay, but what else wasgoing on in your life at that
I think, like, I didn't know.
I just wasn't until I startedworking at Grilled on West
Cross Road in Brisbane,and I met two queer people.
Yeah, that's, you know,what they say about
a kidney fries, gay Yes.
and so I always had crusheson my best friends but time,
(21:16):
such a gay thing but I thinkit just, I kept pushing
it down, pushing it down.
I was like, this isn't normal.
It's fine.
It's not real.
Yes, I've had sex with sevenand a half men, but it's fine.
because thatcan we talk about the Yeah.
Okay, so I said seven and ahalf, but I realized that's what
I say now, because I did haveOkay, okay.
(21:37):
Got it.
because I wanted to have fiancé.
Okay, got it.
Because like, yeah, Ikept trying to have sex
with men and I hated it.
I was like, nah,it's a me problem.
and then I just saw thatand it was so freeing
and just so cool and hot.
And I was like, I wearglasses, Alex wears glasses.
I'm Alex, and I'm gonna go outthere and hook up with a girl.
(21:58):
And then, I saw that, didn'tcome out for a while, but
told all my friends I wasgonna have a and I made up
a theme song for it, becausemusic plays a part of my life,
it it was, Jenna'slesbian experience!
It was more like a catchphrase.
I was like, I'mAnd I was like, I'm gonna
go out and I'm gonna go kissand have sex with a girl.
(22:19):
And everyone was like, Ithink you might be a lesbian.
And I was like, no, no, no.
no, no, no.
What are the chances of youjust jumping into the studio,
maybe and record, layingdown some tracks for that?
And we can insertthat into the podcast.
I think that's got legs.
God we're busy.
you feel when youhear that song now?
Oh my god it makes me so happy.
(22:39):
Like I just listened to it andI'm that's like such a cool to
be able to, and I talk abouthow like music is that like
soundtrack of your life, butlike to think back at little
baby Jenna, even though I wasquite old to be coming out at
23, but thinking of that, like,that's when I knew, and that's
when I admitted to myself, andI was scared, but look at me
now, I'm shaking my ass on stageat Paddington Town Hall where
(23:02):
the first Mardi Gras happened.
but not telling the audienceBut not telling the audience
because I have ADHD!still No, I think that is just
so wonderful because, look,I did the research, I quickly
put two and two together,really, Orange is the New Black,
but it's a coming out song.
(23:22):
And coming out songs are someof the most special songs in
our entire lives because ina way it's like day zero of
the person that you are now.
and I want to thank thosetwo straight men for
helping me realise Jenna'sa fan that I'm a lesbian.
tell me about the albumyou picked and why.
why.
Oh, okay.
I also very much struggled withthis because I was like, there's
(23:43):
so many albums that I listen to.
Phoebe Bridges is my like, naptime, sleep time, sad time.
Moona, Girl in Red, like there'sso many, like, possibilities.
I was like, no, none of thesehave a story, they're just like,
Jenna is a sad And then I waslike, oh my god, I've got it!
Dirty Computer by Janelle Monae.
(24:13):
she released a visual albumwhich is just, because I love
a music video, but to tellan entire story, like from
start and it was queer andhot the way you make me feel
came out, and I was goingthrough a bit of a like Weird
time in my life, let's say.
I'd just broken up withmy girlfriend, first First
(24:36):
first of, two and a halfMet in Brisbane?
No, in Sydney.
Sydney?
Yeah.
But she was from Brisbane.
Funny story.
Anyway, yeah, shut up, John.
I'll tell the She worked at theYeah, she was the other queer!
Um, we, yes, met in,Anyway, whatever.
Broke up and I had the biggest,fattest crush which we all
(25:00):
know is going to be a problem,especially when they've never
hooked up with a girl before.
It can It can only well.
It can only end well.
and this song came out andthat's when we were kind
of, we were really flirty.
We were smooching.
Like I was like this.
Yeah.
Oh, sorry.
I really missed that.
wait.
(25:30):
Yeah, like she'd never hookedup with a girl until me.
Yeah.
and how, was this at a party?
Was it at the park?
so we We had a biggroup of mutual friends.
Um, we played in the samefucking netball Um, and I just
like, I remember from the momentI met her, I was like, Oh fuck.
Like I'm in trouble.
Um, because she's straight.
(25:52):
Um, and I didn't learnanything from Um, but we,
I kind of just like laidit all out there one night.
Yes, I was drunk.
That's not important.
And I said, look, I need tostop hanging out with you.
I'm really struggling dohave such a crush on you.
I really want to be butlike, I don't think I can.
And she said, What if I did too?
(26:15):
I feel like I'm watching a film.
I know and I said oh my god,because you know how you always
like picture it in your head?
You're like, this iswhat I want to happen.
But then it actually happened.
I was like oh f areWere you just like, sorry, what?
Can you repeat that?
I texted her this yeah?
So you got the screenshots.
Yeah and then I was like, shouldI come over, she was like yeah.
(26:38):
And just made out that night.
Wealso then got matching tattoos.
Okay, okay,The U Haul has arrived.
Yeah, but then it waskind of this like,
awkward she was like, obviouslywas dealing then with her own
sexual anyway, so we were goingthis back and forth like,
will they, won't they smoochwhen we're drunk, etc, etc.
(27:02):
I know! the lesbian longing!Um, and of course I just
put myself through it causeI was like, nah, it's going
Um, and then Janelle Monáecame out with this song and
I just remember sending herthe if you haven't seen it's
about Janelle with Tessafucking Thompson and this guy.
Um, but it's all about howJanelle Monáe is essentially
coming out as beingis essentially coming
(27:22):
out as being polyamorous.
Absolutely, and it's so cool.
It's like, that's the way youmake me feel and it's like,
she's being dragged betweenthis girl and this guy.
And it's so cool.
So hot and so cool and thelighting is so bisexual and I
just sent it to her and I waslike This says everything and
then like not long after thatWe started like actually and
dating and just like we're bothobsessed with this album And
(27:43):
it really became like the albumof our lives Relationship, I
kind of feel like it makes melook back and go, that was a
really hard and shitty time.
And yes, it also ended badlyand that's fine, but it was like
this nice moment, especially forher too, with dealing with her
I don't want to do that again.
I don't want to be someone'scoming out, but it was like just
the perfect album to then be avisual album that we could sit
(28:05):
down and watch and be like, hot.
That's Tessa Thompson'sin this and she wouldn't
be anything shit.
And they were alsodating in real life.
Sorry, wait.
Tessa and Janelle.
Okay, well I didn't know that.
I yeah.
Oh, I went intothe deep lore of it all.
Okay.
okay.
(28:31):
I've got so manythoughts on this album.
I adore this album.
I adore Janelle Monáe.
I think it's probably, Ilove her really early stuff,
but I think this is probablyher strongest, like, most
cohesive body of work.
Like, no skip.
Oh yeah.
Oh yeah, nah, we were.
So it ended in the sensethat she was like, I think,
(28:53):
enough, we work too much withSo it ended in the sense
that she was like, I think,just sexuality, like Um,
so it did break it off, whichI, that, you know how they
say, like, your first loveis like your puppy love.
It teaches you about love.
And your second heartbreak.
You were going to die.
Oh, I was broken.
But I think it's also becauseit was such a like long,
(29:16):
experience of like thatlonging and that will they,
won't they, will they, what'shappening, I don't know, and
like The tension.
and that can also beconstrued I think with love
of that like excitementthe depressing emotion.
It's like well this is whatlove is because this is
exciting, what's happening, Idon't know, do they like me?
And the hormones, the Ohhorrible.
Exhausting.
Exhausting.
I had a It'snap when we broke up.
(29:38):
Um, but yeah so we, I actedbadly, I think, in the breakup
with the person.
Yeah, I don't know.
I just like the constanttexting, constant calling, drunk
darling, honey, you love me.
Um, but then we got throughit, became friends and
now she works at my work.
And I mean, we were hangingout the other We joke about
(29:59):
it all, obviously, And doyou want to know what this is?
Girl P W R, bitch! W LWhich I also think really
sums up the album because it'sabout pink and it's about,
you know, being a woman in ashitty world and being queer.
(30:21):
Yeah.
So that's how we got Girl Purr.
Janice Affirm, thank you forsharing that incredible I did
not see that story coming.
Now, I think Janelle Monáe wasalways from day one, Somewhat
queer coded in, of course, theandrogynous appearance early
on, um, always had a huge,uh, section of queer fans.
(30:42):
But like you've already said, itreally was on this album where
she kind of came out outrightand said, anything, baby.
I love it all.
And you hear that in the music,you see that in the visuals.
And, um, The media shewas doing in that time.
She was being very explicit inlike, I am polyamorous you say?
she considers the album tobe an homage to women and the
(31:04):
spectrum of sexual identitiesand that is quite obvious
aside from Make Me Feel, whatwould you say are your top
standouts from the Grimes.
(31:26):
I remember being in New York.
Oh my god, this is so lesbian.
Okay.
I was, so, yeah.
won't say a name.
I won't say that.
Um, the girl the personThe person.
I work with rhymeswith shmallex.
Yeah.
Um, so we decided to beofficial girlfriends.
(31:50):
Um, and then I was,and you went to New to New York.
with my ex Ah! The first one.
it in.
We'd the puppy love ex.
Yeah, the puppy love ex.
Okay.
we're like best friendsto this day still.
Um, so we went to, so I wassitting in New York with my
ex, texting my girlfriend andcause Janelle was starting
to like drop music videoslike throughout this time
(32:13):
and she released Pink andobviously if you've seen the
visual, I was like, vaginasVAGINAS!
just remember sending it to her.
And it was like2am Australia time.
And I'm just like waitingfor her to wake up.
I'm you need to watch this.
And then she had to go to work.
I was like, you needto prioritize this now.
Um, so yes, definitely Pink.
and I like that.
(32:44):
I love, I like, I like, II like that.
Yeah, I like that!Cause it's like, also
about that, I mean, lookingback at our relationship,
like, it doesn't matter.
It's like, I like that.
Yeah.
Who cares what, who fuckingcares about genitals?
It's chill.
Um, the artist.
Tell me about the artistand why you picked them.
pick them?
Well this one's quitestereotypical I feel,
but I'm leaning into it.
(33:04):
You haven't done or saidanything stereotypical
though in this episode soYeah, well I think it's time.
It's timetime to remind us that you are a
lesbian.
Yes, and of course myartist is G Flip.
(33:27):
Shock.
Horror.
You did the, youfulfilled the brief.
yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah,I just didn't think that if
people heard me addressedas prominent Sydney lesbian,
they're like, but is she?
But is she?
And now this will reallyTell me about G Flip.
So, always been a G Flip fan.
and then just them coming outas non binary and with having
(33:49):
songs like, I'll be your man.
Like I just think itwas this really cool
affirming thing for me.
And cause I'm not, I'mnot full non binary, but
I'm like definitely not.
A she, her, you know, youdip your toes.
dip my toes.
I'm like, what amI, what's my mood today?
Like I don't feel more feminine.
I don't do masculine.
And I definitely in love my butbut not all the time.
(34:10):
So I definitely go by,she, they, it's the she
they of it all, you know?
So when G comes out withlike songs like this,
it's like, fuck yeah.
Like Be your best self.
Um, and also they'rejust so cool.
Just like looking,they're hot, they're cool.
They're datingChrishell from Selling
something.
I was waiting.
I wasn't gonna bringChrishell up, but my
(34:31):
god, when that got announcedI was like, you're joking.
Like this has to be aIt sounds like something
that an internetalgorithm joke maker spat Yes,
Like Aussie non binarydrummer G Flip marries, an
actress cum selling sunsetreal estate agent who was
named after a petrol station.
(34:52):
Yeah,Yeah, that's love, love is love.
If you can date a nonbinary you can date Simmons.
stations and here we go.
That's the queer agenda.
I just, I don't know.
I just have always lovedall of their music, like
(35:14):
throughout their careerand just seeing them
They're like so popularnow and it's cool.
And they just, allof their fashion.
I'm like, Oh, that's what I,that's what I want to look like.
I would like that.
Um, can see you've broughtyour drum kit with you today, so
Well, I'm going to beperforming, um, Jenna's
lesbian experience onthe drums later on today.
(35:34):
Um, And just their confidence.
Yes.
And their music is just so funand there's so many different
emotions and you can just tellthat it's so lesbian, you know?
It's so lesbian, all ofthe lyrics Um, I don't
know how eloquently, I justthem.
Yep, and that's all you need towhat you need
(35:55):
Uh, G Flip, I should knowmore about their in the levels
of their international fame.
I I should have done myresearch, but I wonder
how big they are in likethe UK and US for example.
I think definitelybeing married to
Kelle, has it helps?
Hell, it won't hurt.
Chris, helpLet's leave those to me.
(36:25):
Shout out to G Flip.
Shout out to, I think we'veall been witness to their
extraordinary growth in fame andsuccess over the last few years.
The talent is there.
I wasn't deeply familiarwith the music until I
binge listened today.
And there's tunes,there's bangers.
Do you have anystandout favorites?
oh, how could I not mention GFlip covering Cruel Summer by
(36:46):
Taylor Swift and changing thepronouns to be about a girl?
Oh my God.
Okay.
Cause sue me.
I love Taylor Swift.
I didn't, I didn't put it on mylist, but I love Taylor Swift.
Went to the concert.
You know, stopattacking me, Andy.
(37:09):
Andy.
With my eyeballs.
Um, so obviouslythat's a huge, one.
gay for me, it's aboutbeing which is very
similar to mine.
That's very you, yes.
And be your man.
Be your man.
Yeah, hot.
Thank you very much for sharing.
I've been on a journey.
I've been on a verylesbian journey, which
(37:31):
is what I signed up for.
Have you got whatyou signed up for?
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah.
I, um, Yeah, I was thinking,I usually talk about
1x always, not always.
She's gone mad at me once fornot talking about her and I
didn't talk about her until now.
And I think that's growth.
Okay, that is growth.
not going to get mad.
Yep, um, now, and I'll alsojust finally acknowledge,
am I stereotyping here?
(37:52):
Yes.
Am I allowed to because I'vegot a queer music podcast?
Maybe.
We're, I'd say we're onlike the younger end of
the millennial spectrum.
So we're still, you know, weknow a lot of, you know, older
music, but we're still learning.
I do have to declare thatin the last few months, I've
been getting into KD Lang.
(38:14):
on your journey of lesbianmusical heritage, how,
how deep or shallow areyou into your own kd lang?
Because it's inevitable.
It will happen.
I would say I'm shallow.
However, have I or have youseen, this is hard because
it's a podcast, but mycomedy partner and I did,
I've seen it.
Yeah.
(38:34):
Impersonate them.
And also just, when I,you know, when I was
Impersonate them and next timewhen you're invited back on,
I'm not putting words intoyour mouth, but you know which
artist to back on,you know, that's not the kind of
putting words into your that.
(38:56):
So talkYou're not a real artist.
Thanks.
Who had ithas just Sorry, I'm not
going to talk about pink ona lesbian podcast, but she
has just smashed some absurdAustralian record
for stadiums filled.
She has just smashedabsurd Australian labels.
(39:19):
You've got G flip and P flip.
G Flip.
Thank you.
Jenna, I'm, I'm,I'm auditioning.
I want the three queers.
very Great, thank you very much.
what are you workingon next, Jenna?
on?
Oh, I'm doing a show for Irealized I accidentally plugged
it at the start in a way.
(39:39):
Um, it's called It'sNot Funny, It's Private.
And it's based on the weekthat I did stand up for
the first time, got maderedundant from my job, and
my girlfriend that Um, so Idid it for Sydney Fringe last
year, not to brag, sold out.
Um, and I'm doing twomore shows, um, for Sydney
Comedy Festival in May.
And then I'm leaving andI'm moving to Melbourne.
So everyone has to comeif they want to see to see me.
(40:01):
You really heard it herefirst, I'll probably
Haven't even been told work yet.
here! Nope! HR! Um, One ofthe most exciting things I
can imagine about, um, puttingtogether a show and putting
it out to one audience andthen later on doing it to
like, you know, a bigger oneis the, maybe the improvements
that you make in between.
Have you tweaked the show a lotfrom first, you know Can you
(40:23):
say that, becauseyou better believe in numbers
added.
Ah! Now there'll be not one, nottwo, but three musical
numbers in someone thatfamously can't sing.
But that won't letthem stop them.
I couldn't think of a betterplace to end this conversation.
No, we're wrapping it up.
Um, Jenna Saffirn, thankyou so much for your tracks.
And, you are queer, right?
(40:45):
I just do it, to get funding.
So I'm I'm actuallystraight, but I like get it.
All right.
Thank you very much.
That's okay.
That You can find Jenna and thetwo queers at links and
this episode show notes,including links to where you
can see her upcoming show.
It's not funny.
It's private.
Tracks of our queers ispresented and produced by me.
(41:07):
Andy got entirely onunseated, Gadigal and
Ngarigo Aboriginal land.
You can email me yourthoughts, recommendations
or gay rumblings to tracksof our careers@gmail.com.
See you next time.
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