The Highest Goal

An end of year reflection on what motivates us to do what we do.

• The Highest Goal  by Michael Ray
• Echelon Front
• Extreme Ownership
• The Dichotomy of Leadership by Jocko Willink and Leif Babin
• Steve Siebold
• THE SECRET
• Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill
• The ONE Thing by Gary Keller
• The Strangest Secret by Earl Nightingale
• Flow by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi
• Values Clarification by Sidney Simon and Leland Howe 
• Logical Levels model
• Maslow's hierarchy of needs
• John Cutler
• Trimergence

Episode Transcript

Jorge (00:00):
You could unpack that hierarchy to get to the point
where you figure out what it isthat truly and deeply moves you
and what it is that makes youcome alive.

Narrator (00:16):
You're listening to Traction Heroes.
Digging In to Get Results withHarry Max and Jorge Arango.

Jorge (00:27):
Hey, Harry,

Harry (00:28):
Hey, it's good to see you.

Jorge (00:30):
It's good to see you.
We were just talking before westarted recording about plans
for the end of the year, howthings are going.
You mentioned that you justwrapped up a big project, and
sounds like things are goinggreat.

Harry (00:47):
Yeah, I'm just feeling incredibly grateful to have the
kind of work that allows me tobe of service in the world.
And it seems to often come backto book recommendations, right?
Somebody will call me and say,"Hey man, do you have a book
recommendation?
You've always got a good one."And that'll begin a conversation

(01:09):
that'll turn into a thing andwe'll end up discussing the
challenges and opportunitiesthat we're all experiencing.
And sometimes that leads to thekind of engagement that I'm
just wrapping up now, afterabout a year.
I'm pretty excited about thenature of the work that I've

(01:30):
been doing.

Jorge (01:31):
I'm very excited that you used the phrase "be of service
in the world," because I'vebrought a reading today that
kind of touches on that and I'dlike to cue that up for you.

Harry (01:49):
Cool.
I'm looking forward to it.
I'm ready.

Jorge (01:52):
All right, here we go.
"Society's fundamentalassumptions too often lead to
negative outcomes.
We see the evidence and thegrowing gap between the haves
and have nots; increasingviolence; endemic poverty and
starvation; environmentaldegradation; the breakdown of

(02:13):
values, integrity, communicationand community; a sense of
unhappiness and fear; and poorhealth among people in even the
richest nations.
Many of us feel an urgent needto change the status quo and
contribute to a new positivedirection.
The world needs us all tocontribute our best.

(02:36):
But how can any individualaffect what seems to be a
massive concatenation of forcesand at the same time face the
challenges of his or her life?
This book answers thatquestion.
In this time of globaltransformation, we must act
creatively and courageously fromour deepest knowing and

(02:57):
compassion.
Only if we are living inservice of the highest goal, in
whatever way we experience it,can we meet the challenges of
our times and fashion lives thatwork.
And only if we discover ways oftranslating this highest goal
into a new way of living, can itbe practical and expansive for

(03:20):
all."

Harry (03:24):
Wow.
I thought it was gonna go downa really heavy path, and then it
got some lift and, and startedheading in a direction that
prompted some much more positiveemotions than I, expected.
I just finished a courserecently, Echelon Front course,
the.
Jocko Willink and Leif Babincompany that they wrote the

(03:49):
book, Extreme Ownership, and TheDichotomy of Leadership.
And I completed a course, Ican't remember the title of the
course.
I was just trying to look itup.
But it was basically oncontrolling my emotions.
Controlling your emotions,right?
It's how the Navy seals dothat.
How they detach from situationsthat are triggering and
challenging and overwhelming,and put them in stronger

(04:13):
position to show up in, haveclarity of mind and presence,
and be more effective in theworld.
And that's the path that itsent me down, really.
We have an opportunity to workon ourselves, to be these
catalysts of change in the worldand to show up first there and

(04:34):
then for our families andfriends, and then for our
communities, and then thebroader world.
It seems like often we thinkabout the world first and then
we think about our community.
We think about it backwards andwe can't control so much of
what's going on, but we canlargely control ourselves.

Jorge (04:53):
I wanted to bring this reading.
This is a book that was, hasbeen, influential to me in my
life.
And I wanted to bring it now,I've saved it to bring now to
our conversations because it isespecially useful for the kind

(05:14):
of introspective questioningthat tends to happen toward the
end of the year.
I think a lot of folks...
some folks take time off,right?
But people start thinking aboutthings like resolutions for the
new year and it's just a periodwhere a lot of people take

(05:39):
stock of where they are andwhere they want to be.
I certainly do.
And this is a book that hashelped me do that in particular
stages of my life, which we canget into.
As you might have, sussed out,the little section that I read

(06:00):
comes from the introductionbecause it talks about what the
book is meant to do.
So this is a book called, TheHighest Goal by Michael Ray and.
I don't know if Michael Ray,but he teaches in the Stanford
Graduate Business School.

(06:21):
I don't know him personally,

Harry (06:25):
Yeah, I don't know him personally either.

Jorge (06:28):
but, this book is based on a course that he taught
there.
And the purpose of the book isto help you get in touch with
your highest goal.
When I was reading that piecefrom the intro, it almost
surprised me 'cause I've readthis book several times, but it

(06:49):
surprised me on rereading it,how much he's talking about our
impact in the world, right?
And he's talking about thesevery big problems and it's what
can I do?
What can I do about solving allthese big problems?
I think that part of the pointof this book is that You are

(07:10):
going to be most effective ifyou are clear on what it is that
you are ultimately in serviceto, particularly if that thing
that you are ultimately inservice to is something that you
believe in deeply.

Harry (07:31):
I think that's spot on.
And so pertinent right now,too, I probably wrote, actually
wrote down in ink and attachedto my phone, like the first goal
that I've written down andcaptured in a long time
recently.
I was watching a video.

(07:52):
I'm taking a course by SteveSiebold, he's a world renowned,
like paid corporate speaker.
And he teaches speaking,something I'm trying to get
better at.
And he and his wife Dawn, wereinterviewing, Bob Proctor, who.

(08:14):
you probably might not know byname, certainly by character,
you would have seen him in themovie, The Secret, for example.
I don't know if you've everseen that, but Bob Proctor was
one of the characters there.
He's also a world renownedspeaker.
And he's following some of theteachings of, of Napoleon Hill,

(08:36):
the, Think and Grow Rich guy.
And, so I thought, "Man, Ihaven't written my goals down in
a long time!" And I wasn'tthinking about it.
It's funny, I wasn't thinkingabout it in terms of New Year's
resolutions or being the end ofthe year, but literally just
yesterday I wrote down myprimary goal, and only one.

(08:58):
So I've been ruminating on whatis the one thing I'm really
trying to accomplish right nowto show up and be of service in
the world?
And I wrote that down, I stuckit on my phone.
And it reminds me of yourcomment about being focused on
the keystone goal reminds me ofthe book, The One Thing by Gary

(09:22):
Keller.
I think we talked about that.
So you must have read it.

Jorge (09:25):
I think we talked about that book.
Yeah.

Harry (09:28):
and, he makes such a brilliant case for really
pinpointing the one that isgoing to cascade.
and he's framing it mostly inthe context of productivity.
And I guess goals can fall intothat particular deep well, if

(09:49):
you will.
But getting clear about whatyou wanna see in the world and
how you wanna show up to be apart of that, and how you wanna
be a service in that, is, if youcan keep that front and center
in your mind, all the mentalapparatus that we bring to our

(10:12):
interactions with people, tools,the environment, our community,
it starts to get filteredthrough this thing that we're
trying to manifest.
And it's less about magicalthinking and more about what are
you sorting for?

Jorge (10:29):
I'm glad you used the phrase magical thinking, because
when I hear The Secret and,Napoleon Hill...
the phrase, I think it's thelaw of attraction is what they
call it, this idea that ifyou...
I don't know that I'm gonna beable to articulate this fairly,

(10:52):
but I think of it as the ideathat if you place a goal firmly
enough in your mind and youbelieve in it strongly enough,
the conditions will manifest forit to come through or whatever.
It's almost if you wish upon astar and it....
just like adding pseudoscienceon top of it.

(11:12):
Another one that comes to mindis Earl Nightingale, right?
Like the, he wrote...
I think it's called TheStrangest Secret in the World,
something like that.
Which is the same idea, right?
And to be fair, the Michael Raybook, there are points where it

(11:35):
does kinda like verge intospirituality.
But not in this sense, not inthe sense of like magical
thinking, more in the senseof...
part of this book is doing, andone of the reasons I've used
it, throughout my life atvarious stages, is that it has

(12:00):
practical exercises for takingstock of your life from this
perspective, but not with theintent of trying to do the law
of attraction thing, but ratherwith the intent of trying to see

(12:23):
what it is that you truly anddeeply connect with.
And for some people,spirituality might be something
that really lights up theirlife.
And part of the point here isthat there's a hierarchy of
goals.
Your goal this month might beto make a certain amount of

(12:45):
money or ship a product or Idon't know, whatever.
But those goals are likely inservice to something higher,
right?
that something higher might befeeding your family, putting a
roof over your head.
It might be gaining the respectof your peers, a sense of

(13:07):
accomplishment.
I don't know, there's all thesethings that motivate human
beings, right?
And you could unpack thathierarchy to get to the point
where you figure out what it isthat truly and deeply moves you
and what it is that makes youcome alive.
I think that at one point inthe book he talks about the

(13:33):
Csikszentmihalyi I how topronounce it the flow thing,
where there are moments that youfind yourself in flow and
knowing that you are working inservice of something that is
serving your highest goal is acontributor to slipping into
those states.
So there are practicalexercises that one can do to

(13:59):
both suss that out because Ithink a lot of us don't spend
time thinking about what thatmight be and also keeping the
highest goal kind of front andcenter as we are going about our
daily lives, making decisions.

Harry (14:15):
Yeah.
And I'm excited to get a copyof the book and read it.
I don't think I've read it.
And, as a guy who's interestedin prioritization, figuring out
what the various levels are andhow to really pursue getting to
clarity about a relevance rankedlist so that you can really

(14:38):
focus on the things at the topof the list, is really
interesting to me.
I think one of my firstintroductions to this kind of
thinking, the highest goal,really sorting based on values
and so on and so forth, was thebook Values Clarification, which

(14:58):
I believe it or not, I actuallyhave a copy of on my shelf.
It's pretty dense.
I'm not gonna recommend it tofolks, but it's a really
impressive work that's withstoodthe test of time.
To really get clear about whatyour hierarchy of values are and
to understand what informs themand, of course, your values
inform those goals, and thenmaking this more, real.

(15:21):
Like this week, literally thisweek, we, my business partner
and I, have been struggling withone aspect of our business.
We have something that's wayout of balance and it's causing
us to have to work really hardand not make anywhere as much
money as we'd like to.
And I'm doing the vast majorityof the delivery work.

(15:43):
And so we spent some time thisweek working on getting to a
hierarchy of questions.
So I have a model called theopen questions model or open
questions matrix, I've oftencalled it.
And it's really aboutpinpointing what the controlling
question is that needs to beunpacked.
And it's very similar inregard, which is to say, it's

(16:09):
one thing to get clear aboutyour goal, it's another thing to
get clear about your values,which are driving your goals.
And it's another thingaltogether to get clear about
what questions you have becauseyou're not clear about any of
the other stuff.
And so we, he and I, have beenreally wrestling with how
difficult it can be to get tothe point of clarity that you

(16:29):
can put your finger on that goaland then not have it slip out
like a tomato seed on a counterthat you just can't quite stop
until some point at which itdries out enough.
it's, hard work, right?
It's hard work to get clearabout your goals and, really
understand potentially thelogical levels.

(16:50):
and I know we've talked aboutRobert Dilts And his logical
levels model that puts kind ofspirit and connection with
living things at the top andputs your environment at the
bottom.
Super valuable tool that I'veused for years and years, which
came out of the neurolinguisticprogramming NLP community.
And then also Maslow, right?

(17:12):
The Maslow's Hierarchy ofNeeds, right?
You go from your Base levelneeds of, security up to your
highest level needs in terms ofself-actualization.
And in theory, the highest goalis really about the top level
of the Dilts model, which isabout your spirit and connection
to living things.
And the Maslow model, which isabout, actualizing yourself and

(17:36):
figuring out how you're gonnashow up in the world.
So this is like a super fertileand really important.
I think topic and area to focuson.
I can't help but wonder whatbrought you to this book.

Jorge (17:49):
What brought me to this book was a juncture in my life
where I was going through a lotof changes and I was lost.
I needed to rethink what I wasdoing.
it might have been 2004, 2005,something like that.

(18:13):
So that's about 20 years ago.
And, I, was going through aperiod of questioning.
I was going through a periodwhere I had just gone through a
bunch of major life changes andI was out at sea and I didn't
know yet....
I was going through the motionsin a lot of ways.
I was unclear on why I wasdoing what I was doing and what

(18:38):
it was all for and that kind ofthing.
And the title spoke to me, TheHighest Goal, this idea that
it's ultimately in service tosomething.
And I read it and I did theexercises and it genuinely
helped me.
And I remember one of theexercises is explicitly figuring

(19:01):
out your hierarchy of values.
What is it that both attractsyou and repels you?
So there's a negative and apositive version of that.
And coming out the other end ofthis, I felt like I was clearer
on...
Maybe I wasn't clear on where Iwas going with this, but I was

(19:22):
clear on who I am and what Icare about, and it also allowed
me it gave me the space to bemore intentional about those
things.
So maybe I discovered thatthere is a value that I was
surprised that I didn't kindarank higher.
So is that something that Ilike about myself?

(19:45):
Maybe I need to work on that.
So there's agency there.
But and this is something Idon't think I've ever shared
publicly.
Coming out of that, firstexperience of going through that
exercise, I wrote a phrase thatI've kept in the back of my
mind all this time as I've beendoing my work in whatever field

(20:10):
it is, which if not my ultimategoal, it's like my ultimate
role.

Harry (20:19):
I love that.

Jorge (20:19):
It's, what is it that I do, ultimately?
And and it's the phrasecoherence generator.
I think that if I'm aboutanything, it's about generating
coherence.
And that book helped me writethat phrase.
It helped me arrive at thatpoint where I could have enough
clarity to say, this is what I'mabout Ultimately.

Harry (20:43):
Wow, do you know John Cutler By chance

Jorge (20:46):
Yes, and I've spoken with John.
We haven't met in person, but,yeah, he's an inspiration.

Harry (20:52):
you should find a way to meet him in person and have
lunch and sit down and talkabout coherence, 'cause I think
he, and you share that as, apursuit at the deep identity
level.
I think he's just an amazinghuman being and follow his work
closely, and I've been fortunateenough to sit down with him in

(21:15):
person and have some wonderfulconversations.
A couple things.
I had a call earlier with aclient who was sharing with me
that his daughter, just appliedto a Ph.D program, and as part
of that program, she had towrite her purpose statement.
And I thought, man, that hasgot to be a valuable exercise,

(21:36):
and I want to go take a look athow that prompt is written to
and what instructions are givento write a purpose statement,
'cause I think that kind of cutsto the heart of some of what
you're talking about.
And it, it reminds me of twoother things.
One was that back in 2003 whenI shut down Public Mind, my very
own personal first startup,like the one that I founded, not

(21:57):
just one that I was part of,but one that I, started from day
one.
And when I finally closed itdown, I called a mentor of mine
and we were having aconversation about what might
come next.
And Dr.
Ward Ashman, he runs a firmcalled Trimergence in Silicon
Valley.
It's a culture consultingcompany.
And so he managed to extractfrom me what he was calling at

(22:24):
the time a mission statement,but I know it like that classic
corporate mission statement kindof thing.
He was really trying to get tothe heart of what makes me tick
and what motivates me in thatway that, on the positive side
you were just describing.
And I found myself saying, "Iwant to create the kind of world
that I wanna live in throughconstant invitation and choice."

(22:45):
And it just rolled off mytongue, right?
I want to create the kind ofworld I want to live in through
constant invitation and choice.
And it stuck with me ever sinceas a guiding principle for how
I interact in the world now.
And it's very easy to see whenI'm not in alignment with that
and when I am in alignment withthat.
And then finally that thingthat you said about the values,

(23:10):
on the positive and negativeside, and bringing it back to
NLP for a moment, one of myinstructors said to me, if you
wanna know where you're truly anartist, look at what disgusts
you, 'cause that's where youmake your finest distinctions.
And I thought, man, that ispure genius.

Jorge (23:29):
Yeah, you want a deep, emotional, gut level reaction,
whether positive or negative.
Those are signs that there'ssomething there that gets the
juices flowing.
But I just wanted to share thatwith you, Harry, because I
think it's appropriate for thistime of year.
I'm certainly gonna be doing alittle bit of introspection, as

(23:51):
I often do, and I hope thatfolks listening in, if they are,
they do something like this.
Because it's helpful to get aread on what it is that lights
you up, when you're doing thiskind of thinking about your
goals.

Harry (24:07):
Big time.
and it also reminds me, maybefrom a how do you get traction
point of view, like putting thechains on it, one of the things
I've learned, both for myselfpersonally and also much of the
work that I've done with clientsis that over time it's really
about the people and not aboutthe things, right?
It's not about the projects,it's about the people that you

(24:29):
work on those projects with.
And figuring out where to placeyour attention, and show up and
be of service and sorting thatbased on who rather than what is
a nice way to begin thatprocess.

Jorge (24:47):
That's a great reminder, especially at this time of year.
I hope that you have a greatend of the year and surrounded
by great who's.

Harry (24:59):
Thank you so much.
Delightful conversation, asusual.
I'm walking away with things todo and curiosity and
excitement.

Jorge (25:09):
Same here.
Thank you, Harry.

Narrator (25:13):
Thank you for listening to Traction Heroes
with Harry Max and Jorge Arango.
Check out the show notes attractionheroes.com and if you
enjoyed the show, please leaveus a rating in Apple's podcasts
app.
Thanks.