April 14, 2025 • 51 mins
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Are you feeling lost in the aftermath of a divorce? You are not alone. In our latest episode of Transacting Value, we dive deep into the emotional turmoil and transformational opportunities that divorce often presents. Join the conversation with Tracey Gramenz, a divorce coach, who shares insights on rediscovering your identity and rebuilding self-worth amidst the chaos of separation. Through relatable client stories and transformative experiences, our discussion shines a light on the potential for personal growth disguised beneath the layers of grief and identity crises.
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To learn more about Tracey and The Aligned Divorce: Your Roadmap back to You: https://www.traceygramenz.com/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Josh Porthouse (00:00):
The views expressed in this podcast are
solely those of the podcast hostand guest and do not
necessarily represent those ofour distribution partners,
supporting businessrelationships or supported
audience.
Welcome to Transacting Value,where we talk about practical
(00:22):
applications for instigatingself-worth when dealing with
each other and even withinourselves, where we foster a
podcast listening experiencethat lets you hear the power of
a value system for managingburnout, establishing boundaries
, fostering community andfinding identity.
My name is Josh Porthouse, I'myour host and we are redefining
sovereignty of character.
(00:42):
This is why values still holdvalue.
This is Transacting Value.
Tracey Gramenz (00:49):
You've got to know individually your values,
separate from the relationship,and then you have to know your
values together as a couple andactually have a conversation
about it rather than just go onautopilot.
Josh Porthouse (01:06):
Today, on Transacting Value, we're talking
regaining identity afterdivorce.
Now, for some, divorce meanscelebrate and for others,
reinvent, but for most people,it also means turmoil and
confusion and stress andidentity crisis.
(01:27):
And so today we're talking todivorce coach, tracy Grahmins.
All about options and ways wecan regain our identity in the
process and rebuild our families, reinstigate our self-worth.
So, without further ado, I'mJosh Portos, I'm your host and,
from SDYT Media outside of Tampa, florida, this is Transacting
(01:51):
Value.
Tracy, how are you doing?
Tracey Gramenz (01:55):
I'm doing really well today, Josh.
How about yourself?
Josh Porthouse (01:58):
I'm good.
I'm good.
I appreciate you taking timeout of your day too.
I understand you've got a lifeand a career, and to just sit
down and have a conversationmaybe is something you had to
squeeze in, so I don't want itto go unnoticed.
Thank you first off.
Before we get started oh, mypleasure is necessary.
(02:40):
So let me say this my backgroundis primarily in the Marine
Corps, in the infantry at that,and I know more people who are
or have been divorced than whoare or have stayed married, and
so the majority of myprofessional sphere is very
similarly like-minded in thatregard as it applies to
relationships and whateverjadedness comes with that.
So I'm excited to hear some ofthese perspectives you've got.
But let's start here before Iget ahead of myself.
For anybody and everybody newto the show, especially those
(03:02):
who are unfamiliar with you,your practice, your insights,
your perspective, let's justtake a couple minutes and set
the stage for a little bit ofresonance here.
The floor is yours.
Who are you, where are you fromand what sorts of things have
shaped your perspective on life?
Tracey Gramenz (03:17):
Yeah, I'm Tracy and I live in Seattle, sunny
Seattle right now, surprisinglyin November, when, um, when
we're recording this and my workis working with women as a
divorce coach and, um, a lot ofpeople don't even know what a
divorce coach is.
Um, but really what it is is aguide to like, walk alongside
(03:44):
you, and what I always tell myclients is help you stay aligned
or find your alignment whileyou're going through one of the
top, most stressful seasons oflife, which is divorce, and
partly why we're having thisconversation is a lot of that
work is identifying orre-identifying values.
(04:04):
Of that work is identifying orre-identifying values.
So I help people reshape andreimagine their values so that
they can walk in alignment asthey move forward into the next
season of their life.
Josh Porthouse (04:16):
Which I assume is not easy for anybody involved
, probably you included.
Tracey Gramenz (04:23):
Yeah, I mean I really have rethought about how
I view divorce as I dive deeperinto this work, and I think the
initial reaction from otherswhen you talk about divorce is
usually I'm so sorry or that'sso hard, or all of the hard side
of it.
But what I really get excitedabout actually is all of the
(04:47):
opportunity for growth thatthere is.
You know, when you're rippedopen and like when you've tilled
up the soil, that is the timeto plant seeds right.
It's that moment, that is thetime and it's timestamped, and
so it's actually a reallyexciting time, and the hard
things that happen are thingsthat can make you stronger, and
(05:09):
so it's like everything is goingfor you and that's really the
reframe I try to help my clientsget to.
Everything is going for me,Everything is working out to the
benefit of me and my children.
Josh Porthouse (05:22):
Yeah, and do you actually have a garden?
Tracey Gramenz (05:27):
I do have a garden.
I'm more of a construction girl, but I have a garden in my
backyard.
Josh Porthouse (05:32):
Okay, okay.
Yeah, I was wondering, just soI can prep my metaphors to match
you a little bit.
I didn't want it to gounnoticed.
Tracey Gramenz (05:41):
I do a lot of house renovation metaphors like
tear down to rebuild, um that is.
That is a lot of where I gousually, but the garden one.
Josh Porthouse (05:50):
It's just something that it's a good image
, right I like it absolutely and, from what I understand, uh,
actually you did tear down andrebuild and redecorate and
reframe everything that I'mseeing in the background.
Right, that was all you.
Tracey Gramenz (06:04):
Yeah, yeah, I know no one could like see these
, but yeah, I did this like fullum remodel of this whole house,
like everything you see here ummy hands have touched and
created.
Josh Porthouse (06:15):
Yeah, that looks really cool.
That's gotta be satisfying too.
Tracey Gramenz (06:18):
Oh my gosh, yeah , and that's the thing I think,
that I, I, um.
So my other brief background isfive years ago I went through
my own divorce and, in theprocess, purchased the home I'm
in now.
That was set to be torn downand it's like the beautiful
metaphor of like anything can be.
Anything can be restored andredeemed, anything can be made
(06:39):
beautiful, and as I wasrestoring and reimagining my
life, I had a physical space toalso transform.
You know, and I, and it was agood reminder that
transformation is slow and also,when you start with a clear
vision, you don't give up.
You know where you're going andso you just keep working and
(07:02):
you go by the drywall, you haulthe concrete in, you rip out the
flooring, like just the wholeprocess.
You know, but you just keepgoing because you know every
effort.
Every day, when you put forth alittle bit of effort, it is
getting you closer to that goalwhen you have clarity but in the
beginning you don't haveanything.
Josh Porthouse (07:22):
You may not even actually have anything, so
right, I mean what?
What then?
Like you know, you go from Idon't know a monday where you're
hearing.
I'll see you after work.
To tuesday, I'll see you incourt.
You know everything.
There's always the the momentwhere, pre-moment, everything
(07:44):
seems okay to somebody.
Chances are usually at leastthat's the case, I think in some
sense the lucky ones know it'scoming yeah but that's not
always the case.
And so if you don't have thatclarity because of the, the
stress, the overwhelm, theanxiety, the, the identity
crisis, any of these otherthings, well then you can't
(08:06):
really start with a clear vision.
So what has to come first inthose the overwhelm, the anxiety
, the identity?
Tracey Gramenz (08:10):
crisis, any of these other things, well then
you can't really start with aclear vision.
So what has to come first inthose cases?
You know, as coaches, we arealways forward focused, right.
So we're looking at where arewe going, not necessarily where
we came from.
So, in a way, sometimes thebackstory not that it doesn't
matter but you are still goingto have to transform.
Regardless, your life haschanged, whether it was your
decision to leave, whether yougot handed paper as well after
(08:33):
you dropped your kid off atpreschool, or whatever you
you've got to move forward andand rediscover what's important
to you, what your values are.
And so I don't like to get toocaught up in whatever the
backstory is, because that canhold us back, because what we're
(08:54):
doing now is we're movingforward and we are growing, and
so the step one is kind of likewe untangle right.
I mean, literally in the firstsession I had with people, we
sit down and talk about valuesto say what, what is important
to you now, for me, thebeginning of my journey, that my
(09:14):
three most important things, myvalues, became one my kids and,
specifically, time with them.
So when I had my kids, all of asudden you know you're not with
your kids every night.
So when I had them, my valuewas I will always be with them.
I'm not going to make otherplans, I'm not going to squeeze
something else in.
I'm not going to say yes to anevent.
No, it's an automatic no.
(09:35):
I can look at my calendar ayear from now and I can tell you
yes or no if I will do thatthing.
And then also for me, I justwanted peace.
That became actually my corepillar of value, and I learned
what it looks like for me, whatit felt like, and so all of my
decisions ricocheted off of okay, is this bringing me closer to
(09:57):
peace or further away?
And then, for me, my third onewas beauty.
Like I tore down my heart, Irealized I want to see beauty, I
want to have beauty around me,I want to be a beautiful person,
and so it actually really didstart with remodeling my home,
you know.
And so I take clients to thatsame process in a conversation.
(10:18):
So a lot of people think theyknow what their values are, but
they don't actually talk themout.
Or maybe they had gotten usedto living a certain way with
their partner.
Now that partner's no longer,and so they have the opportunity
to say, well, did I really likeskiing or ski vacations, or is
that just something we did?
Did I really value, you know,whatever they got into the
(10:40):
rhythm of doing?
Did I really value that, or isthat just a habit?
Right, a habit and a value arevery different things.
Josh Porthouse (10:47):
Yeah, absolutely Absolutely.
And on one hand, like I saidmost well before we recorded,
most of my professional careerin the Marine Corps has been in
the infantry, so a lot of myperspective tends to get
grounded in, you know, actuallytactical environments or mission
planning or whatever, becausethat's when my frontal lobe
(11:09):
developed.
I guess I don't know, but itbecame my baseline to sort of
understand the world.
And so we have this concept.
And in the 1950s he was afighter pilot, he was a colonel,
john Boyd, and he came up withthis concept to help fighter
pilots more quickly orientthemselves in a dogfight,
(11:34):
whether fighting other planesand pilots in the sky, because
everything's happening at Mach 1or faster, I don't actually
know.
I'm on the ground, but quickly,right.
And so his cycle was observe,orient, decide, act, and it was
all relatively short syllabicwords that they could think
(11:54):
about when the blood's rushingdown out of their heads, and
something to keep them focusedand give them something to key
in on.
And I feel like high stresssituations, like obviously
during a divorce, key in on andI feel like high stress
situations, like obviouslyduring a divorce, isn't moving
that fast, but it certainlyfeels that way and there's got
to be this simple sort offramework, I think, just
(12:16):
initially to ground you and Ithink you're exactly right, you
said it, I think, beautifullywhere values can be that
mechanism.
And so maybe it's the simpleconversation of not worrying
about what you don't have orcan't control, but what do you
have, which ultimately, I think,is your character and
perspective on the world.
So I think it's a great point.
But then how do you instigatethat?
(12:38):
Because, like you said, if youridentity is rooted in a married
couple, namely you and somebodyelse, and then it's just you,
then how do you know?
I mean, you question everything.
That sounds just asoverwhelming.
Do you give yourself all theoptions?
That sounds super anxious.
How do you narrow down frommany to few?
(13:01):
Then?
Tracey Gramenz (13:02):
Yeah, I think it begins by just noticing.
I think you pay attention toyourself.
What do you naturally gravitatetoward?
What would you, what do youfind yourself doing, no matter
what?
What sparks a little bit of joyin you?
Like, pay attention to yourself, and I think sometimes we,
(13:24):
especially with big words likevalues, or what am I doing with
my life?
It gets so big, but all of uslive each day, one day at a time
, right, and so I try to likestep back actually from the big
and look at, look at the day,break it down.
What brought you joy today, youknow?
(13:45):
Oh, it was when my clients withbeing in the garden.
That's important to me.
Oh, I brought my neighbor somesoup.
Oh, so your value is helping.
Or your value is nature.
Oh, I see you know.
So look at the little thingsthat you do and then notice that
you can extrapolate from therewhat your value is.
Josh Porthouse (14:06):
All right, folks sit tight, We'll be right back
on Transacting Value.
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Tracey Gramenz (15:11):
So look at the little things that you do and
then notice that you canextrapolate from there what your
value is.
Josh Porthouse (15:21):
Okay, so is it always rooted in some kind of
act now you got me doing theplant thing is it always
anchored in some sort of uh,action or activity identifying
your values, or is it based on aperspective and a thought
process?
I mean, where where do youthink in your experience, maybe
(15:42):
individually or working withclients do values come from?
Tracey Gramenz (15:47):
I think that I'll just speak from my own
personal experience.
Um, I, when I was noticing whatI valued, what was important to
me.
It was kind of a?
Um, it was multiple things,sometimes it was actions.
So I found myself always goingdown to watch the sunset the
night.
My kids would go back to be withher dad, and what is that?
(16:08):
That's a value of valuingnature, a value in beauty, a
valuing time alone, you know,and a prioritizing, just being
and being okay with just myself,you know.
And so I noticed this activitythat turned into kind of a core
value for me of I'm someone whovalues time and nature, who
(16:30):
values beauty, and then, withkid stuff that is more like that
was more conceptual thinking.
Ok, I have this new structureof time, how do I want to go
about and decide, you know,decide once, I'm deciding once
when I have my kids, I'm notmaking other plans, it's already
decided, I don't have torethink.
(16:51):
So I think that there's manyways you can go about it, but it
just first starts with gettingquiet and getting um, honest
with yourself and just kind ofnoticing yourself, you know is
it the same concept or framework?
Josh Porthouse (17:06):
I mean, you said , for example, after your
divorce, you're able to see yourkids.
Well, after mine, I wasn't.
We were in two different Statesfor years, so actually up until
recently within the last year,and so you know, we spent five
years in a long distancerelationship.
Do you think it's the sameframework, then, that you can or
can they shift and changedepending on circumstance, or is
(17:30):
it subjective time of day?
I mean, how consistent arethese values?
Do you think?
Tracey Gramenz (17:35):
Well, I think, like in that case, like if, if
you were my client and we wereworking you know way, you know,
years ago, when that firststarted, we would probably have
a conversation around your valueof parenting and what being a
father means to you, and wewould probably talk something
around saying a family bond, abond between a parent and their
(17:58):
children, is there forever andthere are circumstances that can
take us physically apart fromour kids for days or even years,
but that doesn't change yourvalue as a loving parent or the
unbreakable bond that we havewith our kids.
And so it would be more what ismy value system as a parent
(18:18):
when I'm not in control of thetime?
You know, because you are incontrol of your perspective.
Josh Porthouse (18:26):
Yeah, sure, and so I guess that at that point it
would be relatively subjectiveto changing factors or or
whatever opportunities presentedthemselves to reevaluate if
necessary.
Tracey Gramenz (18:37):
Yeah, yeah, so it would just be more.
I mean that kind of shifts alittle bit more to mindset work,
which is also a big part of,you know, the any, the divorce
process and certainly any anytransitional work that we do.
But yeah, I mean it all kind ofdovetails together your values,
your mindset and then yourstrategies to enact and live by
(18:58):
your values.
Josh Porthouse (19:00):
OK, well, well.
So let me challenge that pointfor a second, then, because I
thought I knew at the timeactually about five years ago.
I thought I knew at the time.
Okay, well, this is what Ivalue, this is how I see the
world, this is how I prioritizewhatever inputs are happening
around me, and I think initiallyI felt communication was
(19:22):
important and authenticity wasimportant.
I'm not sure I really knew whatthey meant or to what extent I
thought they were important, butI remember thinking something
similar.
My point is then I filled itwith work.
I found crutches and copingmechanisms and other options,
because even though I recognizedthose things, I'm not entirely
(19:46):
sure they were grounded in muchof anything, let alone anything
productive.
It was circumstantially, asit's turning out, something that
I just happened to try towhatever degree of effect, but
then supplemented with whateverI was getting into.
I go to the gym twice a dayjust to spend six hours anywhere
(20:07):
but home.
Uh, you know, go out withbuddies or drink, or sit on the
back porch or whatever, whatever, any number of things you know,
stay at work late just because,and was all this because you
were avoiding um that, that painor that transition, or being
away from your kids, or what wasthe root of all that?
(20:31):
Well, that's an interestingquestion.
I think in my case, what I wasmore avoiding was the overwhelm
and honesty with myself aboutmyself, because I'd never
thought about it.
I had to do, you know, whateverblue collar work, or after I
(20:55):
enlisted, obviously it was alldepartment of defense stuff,
whatever they told me I had todo, and there was never really
any time or need to think aboutit, because your focus is
everybody else, and so I thinkthat's what scared me the most
initially, and then theoverwhelm of, well, now I don't
know how to do it or what to door or why I need to do it.
I'm fine, I'll be okay.
You know, is that because theanchor of your role was taken
(21:20):
from you?
I don't think I knew my role tobegin with.
I think I well, at least Idon't think I recognized it, let
alone knew it.
You know, it's not like it wasmy fourth marriage or or
whatever.
I mean, both my parents weredivorced as well, so I really
never saw, or or at least, if Idid see it, I never really
recognized what that role couldbe, and maybe that contributed
to a little bit of my owncomfort or complicity in the, I
(21:42):
guess, grieving process.
But it was easier because itwas a routine to just cope and
swap and supplement with work orstaying busy or whatever,
because I didn't know how toslow down, which also probably
directly correlated to thedivorce.
But, yeah, and and everythingthat went with it, cause we were
(22:03):
on different, different planesconversationally, uh,
cognitively, I was way behind.
Where she was.
She was more concerned with thefamily and focusing on these
types of quality time things.
I was like, concerned with thefamily and focusing on these
types of quality time things.
I was like I'm focused onproviding and an income and the
stuff outside the family unitstructure, you know, and I
(22:24):
assume that's pretty commonthough, is it?
Tracey Gramenz (22:28):
yeah, well, for sure.
I mean, I think the common, themost um common cause of divorce
, when initiated by a woman, isa woman hard of feeling alone
and tired of feeling like she'sdoing it all right.
Where the male in a traditionalmale female relationship, where
the man is providing and feelslike he's checked off the box
(22:48):
and the woman is, you know, gother list 20, 20 items deep and
and she feels tired of feelingunsupported, and the man gets
kind of blindsided because he'slike, but literally all I do is
support you financially andthat's the disconnect right that
leads to a lot of separation.
Josh Porthouse (23:09):
Okay, so how do you communicate through it
before the point then?
Tracey Gramenz (23:13):
Yeah, before that.
Josh Porthouse (23:14):
Yeah, how do you work on communication and
awareness and individualidentity as a couple?
Tracey Gramenz (23:22):
Yeah, I mean, I think that kind of going back to
the whole root of this.
This your show is you've got toknow individually your values,
separate from the relationship,and then you have to know your
values together as a couple.
What do we?
What do we value?
Do we value time apart?
Do we value independence?
Do we value togetherness, likewhat?
(23:44):
What do we actually care aboutand actually have a conversation
about it rather than just go onautopilot?
I think a lot of us just livein autopilot and then and we
don't like to have hardconversations you know, or maybe
we don't know ourselves youknow a lot of folks that get
married really young.
Do you do you know what isvaluable to you?
(24:06):
Do you know what's important?
You know, oftentimes either youdon't or you do, and it changes
.
Josh Porthouse (24:12):
Okay, fair.
So that's that's obviously agreat point as well, that it's
normal, see, because I thinkwhat I heard initially and then
now also from you people who getmarried young tend to run into
issues sooner, you know, becauseyou're maturing faster than
maybe you're ready for.
But also, I think the otherpoint to that younger reference
(24:38):
is in terms of maturity you justdon't have the life experience
to know you well enough, letalone to help somebody rely on
you or vice versa, rely onsomebody else.
Yeah, exactly the A-frame isnot strong enough.
And though then the top I thinkupper threshold to that
comparison is okay.
Well now I'm never going to beready.
(25:00):
Or how can I know that I'm everready?
Will I ever be mature enough?
The same reason people don'thave kids or don't want you know
that kind of argument.
So how do you know then, whenyou're old enough to get married
, or mature enough to know?
Or is there a threshold?
Tracey Gramenz (25:15):
Yeah, I mean, I think that's just so
individualized, right.
I mean, we're, you know, we areconstantly growing.
I think that maybe one responseto that to consider is, you
know, reframing even how youlook at partnerships and
marriages and thinking is thegoal of a marriage, um, to
(25:36):
absolutely for sure staytogether with someone for your
whole life?
Or is the goal?
What I would suggest is thegoal of a partnership is to
uplift someone and help themreach their goals and have them
do the same for you, whileliving in peace and continuing
(25:56):
to do that day after day and, ifthat changes, being brave
enough to say we are no longerhelping each other.
You know, I think we just lookat longevity as the marker, the
hallmark for a good marriage,and then divorce as a hallmark
for failure, when really divorcecan be the bravest thing that
(26:19):
you can do and it can be thekindest thing that you can do
with a partnership, when you'reno longer aligned and you are
having the courage to say thisisn't working, so we're going to
do something different.
Josh Porthouse (26:33):
All right, folks sit tight and We'll be right
back on Transacting Value.
Join us for Transacting Value,where we discuss practical
applications of personal values,every Monday at 9am on our
website,transactingvaluepodcastcom.
Wednesdays at 5pm and Sundaysat noon on
wreathsacrossamericaorg slashradio.
(26:53):
On wreathsacrossamericaorgslash radio.
Tracey Gramenz (26:56):
Really, divorce can be the bravest thing that
you can do and it can be thekindest thing that you can do
with a partnership, when you'reno longer aligned and you are
having the courage to say thisisn't working, so we're going to
do something different.
Josh Porthouse (27:12):
Okay, well then, what's the threshold for that?
Because then, well, is it thethreshold for that?
For what?
Well, is it the first argument?
You're like this isn't working,I'm out, or is it?
You know what let's give?
it 10 years.
Tracey Gramenz (27:24):
trigger?
I think that's one of the mostbrutal questions to ask yourself
.
I personally remember literallyGoogling when.
I'm on the internet, I was likeshould I leave my husband?
Should I leave him if I don'tlove him?
I felt like I just for so longI had this just pit in my
(27:47):
stomach, a feeling like thisisn't, this isn't right, like
this doesn't seem right, thisdoesn't seem right, this doesn't
seem right, this doesn't seemright, this doesn't seem right,
this doesn't seem right.
And I didn't, because Ibelieved in commitment and
marriage and sticking it out,and I had been told by society
(28:08):
relationships are hard, justkeep working, just keep working.
And that message was over andover and over.
And finally, I remember mybrother called me he's like
Tracy.
Finally remember my brothercalled me he's like tracy.
Josh Porthouse (28:18):
Relationships require work, but it shouldn't
be this hard.
Tracey Gramenz (28:20):
You know, and I think that that is such an
individual gauge of like, whatis the balance of work meaning?
I care for my partner, so I'mgoing out of my way to be kind,
be supportive.
That is work.
It's happy work, right.
And then the work of the dread,oh my gosh.
Like if your body turns up whenthey walk in the door and that
(28:40):
happens, like for a month or ayear or five years.
Josh Porthouse (28:45):
And it's more subconscious than conscious.
Tracey Gramenz (28:49):
Yeah, it's not about like a fight or this or
that.
It's like are you?
You have to just be so braveand honest with yourself and
determine am I being aligned inthis situation?
And you know, the averageperson attempts to leave seven
times before actually arelationship ends.
(29:09):
So, and also, what I personallyexperienced too, is divorce is
so hard that it does not be easyout, and you know this too.
Like divorce is very hard, it'sbrutal, and no one would do it
If the alternative was easier.
Right, we only step into itbecause it's really it's, it's,
(29:30):
it's so.
It's such an upheaval of yourlife and I'm no, I'm no divorce
advocate.
It's such an upheaval of yourlife and I'm no divorce advocate
.
I'm a alignment advocate.
I am here to help people thrive.
I'm not here to tell everyoneto leave their marriages the
minute they have a fight.
Absolutely not.
People come to me after they'vealready decided to leave their
marriage right.
I believe in partnership andcommitment.
That thing I believe the mostin is aligned, empowered,
(29:55):
peaceful humans.
Josh Porthouse (29:59):
I can appreciate that and I think everything and
this is my personal opinion, Imean everything stems from
family, because it gives you atleast a baseline or should.
Normally there's exceptions toall of these things, but it
(30:19):
gives you a baseline for trustand courage and communication,
love, selfishness and altruismand all sorts of different
things.
And then the thresholds forthose things.
Is greed always bad?
No, because I never one timegot to get seconds when my
(30:39):
younger brother was eating atthe table with us.
He did, though Right, I wasolder, I should.
It's fine, your brother needsto eat.
He's a growing boy.
You know like okay, but youlearn.
You know sometimes that's okaytoo.
And then other times whenthere's extra rolls.
I'm not giving him any becausehe had it yesterday, you know so
then you learn fairness andgreed or whatever you know.
(31:02):
There's all sorts of lessons youcan learn, I think in family is
my point.
But it's not always family oforigin.
I think you can have familiesthat you create over time, you
and your friends.
Or, in this example, I don'tknow how well you get along with
your ex-husband, I'm in aamicable enough position with my
(31:25):
ex-wife and that's okay,because then it also affords
opportunities to teach thatconflict is natural and how to
work through conflict or how toattempt to, and life's not
always fair, and all the otherlessons that come with it.
But I'll tell you this, tracy,and obviously for everybody
listening as well I think all ofthose what would you call those
(31:45):
corollary points or qualifiersor whatever come from a value
system, and so I'm curious,because you didn't just make all
this stuff up.
In fact you said when you satdown and thought about it it was
already there.
So this is a segment of theshow called Developing Character
and it's two questions.
(32:07):
It's entirely vulnerable, orwhatever, as you want to be in
depth, to any of these answers,but I want to try to get the
picture of a timeline here, allright, and see how things maybe
changed or, naturally, over timeinfluenced your perspective to
be able to handle this maturelyin some sort of a
self-controlled you know,regulatory fashion, despite the
(32:28):
chaos.
So my first question is whenyou were growing up, what were
some of your values then, orthat you were exposed to or
raised on?
What was the foundation?
Tracey Gramenz (32:39):
So my foundation and my roots come from a
Christian upbringing.
My family was, I would say,like Christian in a good way.
I mean it was very positive.
It was um great community andwe had always lots of friends,
always um doing a lot of servicework, you know it was.
(33:02):
It was um very wholesome, Iwould say, and also for sure
that it it was.
Christianity in and of itselfIsn't there's, there's belief
and faith, and then there'scultural norms, right, or
cultural beliefs, and those arenot necessarily, even at the
(33:26):
time, my values, and they arenot anymore.
But I think the thing that thatwas a real value or was really
ingrained in us was like thisvery evangelical nature to
christianity, like hey, if youdon't believe in this, you're
done, so you're out yeah you'regoing to hell and yeah
(33:47):
yeah and um.
So as I reflected on that, whatI was raised with in my 20s, I
first tried to quit God.
I was like I'm done with this,and I think that was really kind
of a turning point for me toown what I actually cared about.
(34:10):
So for me, what I realized wasthat there's tenets and of that
upbringing that I hold dearlyand actually it's just one.
It's just one that I reallycling to and it and it's my
foundation, which is we are allso loved.
We're all just so loved, and Idon't believe in a kind of
(34:37):
man-made or culture-made beliefsystem, a faith system, but I do
believe in the energetics ofthe universe, I do believe in
love and I do believe in that.
We are intentionally here.
We are intentionally here, yeah.
Josh Porthouse (35:00):
That's probably the most important thing that I
took away from my upbringing.
Okay, well then, growing upover, I can probably safely
assume, the next few decadesthen what about now?
What are some of your valuesnow then?
Tracey Gramenz (35:17):
So now I think that, like I was sharing a
little bit earlier, I didn'tjust get divorced and create
values, but now I know what Icare about.
But I mean for me, I think it'sreally simple, right, I, I care
(35:37):
about my family, I care about myfriendships and I care about my
personal physical health andpeace of mind.
Those are the things.
So, if every day, I'm beingwith my kids, I'm connecting
with at least one friend, Iconnect with my friends every
(35:58):
single day a lot of them, andit's so important to me and I'm
taking care of my body, I'mworking out, I'm mountain biking
, I'm doing whatever, and I'mkeeping my mind peaceful by
being in nature, being quiet,cleaning my house my favorite
peace inducing activity um,you're like, you're so obsessed
with cleaning.
(36:18):
Um, those are things I mean.
I think it's it's simple, right, like the how, like we're
talking about also earlier.
Each day it's tacked up, makesour life.
So when you try to get your,keep your ingredients good and
simple in your days, and thatwill make a good life, you know
(36:39):
All right, folks sit tight andwe'll be right back on
Transacting Value.
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Tracey Gramenz (37:33):
Each day is tacked up makes our life.
So when you try to get your,keep your ingredients good and
simple in your days and thatwill make a good life, you know.
Josh Porthouse (37:45):
Yeah, well, I think it can if you, if you
recognize what you have.
Yeah, if you don't, I think itcan be just as neglected or or
wasted, or or just omittedentirely because you don't.
I think it can be just asneglected or wasted or just
omitted entirely because youdon't know what you've got.
The beauty that you talkedabout, the simplicity and the
peace that you've been talkingabout, the more you thought
(38:06):
about it.
I'm curious was that therebefore, or was it things that
started to manifest the more youthought about it?
You know what I mean?
Was it always sort of resonant?
You just didn't pay attentionto it until you were able to
slow down um, like my, myconnection to beauty and peace
or my need for that yeah to someof these values you're talking
about now.
(38:27):
I mean, were they always there?
You just didn't, you know,smell the roses, or something I
don't know.
Tracey Gramenz (38:33):
Um, I do think, yes, I think that my perspective
has always been rather similar.
I think that I, when I speak ofkind of rediscovering or
redefining these values, a lotof it was just detangling from a
really hard marriage, for youknow that decade of my life that
it was there.
So I would say I still even hadall these things throughout,
(38:56):
you know, childhood, through thetwenties, through my marriage
and then post divorce.
I think I'm just more aware ofthem and I more defined them and
realize, recognize, as I getolder, as we all get older, how
important it is to talk aboutand define those things to so
(39:18):
that you can make sure thatyou're living by what is
important to you you know, okay,okay.
Josh Porthouse (39:24):
So is that a maturity consideration?
You just it'll make sense whenyou're older.
Get through it now, you'll beokay, you know, get a job and
then slow down later.
Or is that something you think?
Yeah, with enough consciouseffort, you can.
You can piece this together andyou can make it work and and
(39:44):
figure out who you are, nomatter your age, or cognitive
development or whatever.
Tracey Gramenz (39:51):
I think both, and I think that we always have
access to self-awareness andpaying attention to life, living
in gratitude, those things thatsound so trite but are so
profound.
We all have access to that all,and I I believe I I did access
that and lived by that along theway.
You know, and and with age, Ithink that you do get a richer
(40:16):
perspective and you do have moregratitude and you realize how
much more simple everything islike, or the things that are
really important are thesimplest things, right, being
kind, spending time with peoplethat you love.
You know being grateful, youknow being aware of the magic
that's happening all around you,and so, yeah, I think it's a
(40:39):
both, both hands to thatquestion.
Josh Porthouse (40:42):
Yeah, Well, I can appreciate that.
I mean the experience alone ofgrowing up and getting older,
the experience alone is overtime.
If you know, you pay enoughattention and I'm, and I think
enough is a minimal degree ofattention.
But if you pay enough attention, you can start to see the
patterns, you can start to seethe events or the causation that
(41:02):
led to some of them, orbehaviors, actions, people,
personality types or whatever itis.
And so, yeah, I think it'seasier to learn in hindsight
because of those biases,prejudices, pattern recognition,
habits of thought or action,you know.
But then what if you don't haveit?
I'm curious because, like yousaid earlier, plenty of people
(41:23):
get married young and then getdivorced young and then fall
into a similar kind ofrelationship or with the same
type of person, maybe all overagain, just a different last
name.
So what then?
Because obviously in that case,or generally let me say that
generally then it wasn'trecognized in advance to avoid
(41:44):
it, to change some circumstanceor some aspect or perception.
So what advice do you have then?
Suck it up, Wait till the thirdtime.
Tracey Gramenz (41:56):
Just being kind to yourself and looking at it
for what it is.
Okay, you, you repeated apattern.
Now you're aware that yourepeated a pattern.
Okay, so you, now that you'reaware of it, you can potentially
not repeat it again.
And if you do repeat it again,then you're going to be able to
do it again.
Take shame out of the equationand just look at the pattern.
(42:19):
Don't beat yourself up, right?
We live in so much shame andfear and guilt and those things.
Don't let us get to the root ofwhat we're actually dealing
with.
So take those off of your plate, recognize your pattern and try
again.
You know, our whole life isjust about trying again and we
constantly make mistakes or weconstantly get a little bit or a
(42:43):
lot bit off kilter, and we can.
All we can do is recognize itand keep trying, you know.
Josh Porthouse (42:51):
Yeah, but that's well.
That's hard in itself, not justthe recognition but taking
shame out of the equation or thegrief or whatever.
Tracey Gramenz (42:59):
That's the most important thing, that is the
most important thing.
That is the most important thing.
Just think about it.
This here's another.
This is just our gardens gardenepisode.
Think about your yard.
Right, it's got dandelionseverywhere.
You're going to go out thereand you're just going to clip
off the dandelions and what isgoing to happen?
They're going to grow back,right.
That is what happens when youonly deal with shame.
(43:22):
Shame is a dandelion, right,I'm going to take it off.
I mean, I'm just going to onlylive in shame and you never get
to the root and it's justwhatever is happening there.
When you're only addressingyour shame, I'm so ashamed of
that, I'm just self-loathing.
Oh my gosh, I'm so embarrassedand you only live in that and
you never go deeper.
Then that same root is justgoing to grow another dandelion,
(43:46):
another weed.
It is scary to go deeper.
Josh Porthouse (43:51):
That's tough, even if you're by yourself in
your house, alone in your ownhead, not even out loud.
Tracey Gramenz (43:59):
Oh my gosh your head can be the scariest place
to be right, yeah.
Josh Porthouse (44:09):
So let me ask you this then, and I guess, for
the sake of time, I only have acouple more questions for you.
But when that happens, thatsort of I'll say inescapable
feeling, you're stuck in yourhead and you're working through,
let's say, shame and guilt andfear and all of these things, I
think you have two options youfight or flight and you say, no,
I'm not dealing with it, andthen you just go about your way
(44:30):
and it becomes what it is, oryou do something about it to
whatever extent and maybe manageit better, as the outcome.
Are either of those optionsbetter than the other?
Are both bad or both good?
Is there a good and bad?
Is it acceptable, unacceptable?
What's your opinion?
Because everybody gets there atsome point.
(44:51):
It's part of the grief process.
Tracey Gramenz (44:54):
Yeah, I just think again, I mean everything
in life being in your head, theshame, the cycling through all
the stuff is, it can beinevitable.
But I think that making itsmaller is helpful.
(45:14):
Like you're stuck in your headabout a thing and the I don't
know if, fight or flight, Icould say, okay, what is better
or worse, but I think, justbreaking it down and being like,
well, what can I do?
You know, is there a smallthing I can do?
And again, as best you can,being kind to yourself and not
(45:39):
beating yourself up and justbeing like, just sometimes I say
out loud I mean I do this withmy kids all the time.
Hey, um, I got really upset andI I shouldn't have done that.
I was, you know, triggered bythis or whatever.
I was dealing with this thingat work or this stressful
situation and I let it boil overinto my emotions.
(45:59):
I'm sorry, but what I don't dois I don't like live in fear or
live in shame that night,mulling it over.
Oh my gosh, I gave my kids apoor, bad memory, right, oh my
gosh, because then I'm justpulling down my own vibration,
I'm lashing myself, and thatserves no purpose.
How is that moving towardgrowth.
(46:21):
So I think the more conciseanswer is just move toward
growth in the smallest, simplestway you can imagine in that
moment.
Just move toward growth.
Josh Porthouse (46:33):
Yeah, a fair amount of grace, dignity grace
dignity, respect and obviouslyself-awareness makes a huge
difference.
Yeah, I mean, it really doesn'ttake much if you're able and
aware enough to say I'll be okay.
You probably will be, at leastfor that day, at least for that
(46:56):
hour.
Yeah, you know, it makes a hugedifference.
So I have two more questionsfor you, and one is maybe a bit
more personal.
But of all of your experiencesthen let's say personally or
working with your clients, whathas it actually done, then, for
your sense of self and how hasit instigated your own
(47:18):
self-worth?
Tracey Gramenz (47:19):
now that you've had time to reflect and process,
I'm just really proud of myself, and so I feel really good
about myself, I feel at peace.
I think that's the biggestthing is, I'm proud of how I'm
living, I'm proud of how I'mspending my time.
I'm proud of how I'm spendingmy time.
(47:41):
I'm proud of the alignment I'vebrought into my life with my
values and my goals and thethings that light me up, and so
I think really fundamentally,it's just led to a much more
peaceful mind, like we weretalking about just now.
My mind is at peace.
Josh Porthouse (47:57):
Wow, Well, congratulations then.
I mean that in itself is a hugeaccomplishment, but in spite of
everything else, especiallyyeah, yeah, wow, well, okay.
So my last question, then, isfor anybody that wants to get in
touch with you or talk to youas a coach, or hear more of your
story, where can people go, howcan they get in touch with you,
(48:20):
or what are some options?
Tracey Gramenz (48:22):
Yeah, they mainly can just go to my website
, tracygramenzcom, and that'swhere you can book a call with
me.
I love, I love to.
I have, you know, I have freediscovery calls.
So I love to jump on a 15 or 20minute call just to see where
you're at, you know, and it's sogreat to just hear someone
(48:42):
else's voice and have someoneoffer to walk alongside you.
So that's what I do.
You want to just like seepictures of my kids and me on a
mountain bike?
You can look at my Instagram atTracy, but most of my business
life is is just through medirectly on my website.
But, yeah, actually I'm gettingready to build a cottage in the
back of my house.
So, yeah, do follow me onInstagram and I'll share a
(49:04):
demolition and a really coollittle build on my other side of
my life.
Josh Porthouse (49:12):
Yeah, sick.
Yeah, that'd be cool.
Yeah, that'd be cool, all right.
Well then.
So for anybody who's new orunfamiliar with the show
depending on the player you'relistening to this conversation
on, there's a drop down arrow.
You can click see more.
You can click show more andyou'll see a description, the
show notes, the content for thisconversation.
In there you'll also be able tofind links to Tracy's website,
(49:35):
and then now the Instagram,because I got to see how this
cottage turns out, so that'sgoing to be there, but you guys
can get in touch with her thereas well.
Tracy, I love the conversation.
I actually wish we had moretime.
It was really cool to get toknow you, super awesome to feel
out your perspective, but thenlearn some things along the way.
I really enjoyed it, so Iappreciate it, thank you.
Tracey Gramenz (49:57):
Likewise.
Thank you, Josh.
So I appreciate it.
Thank you Likewise Thank you,josh, of course.
Josh Porthouse (50:01):
Now saying that for anybody listening to this
conversation, if you want tofind any of our other
conversations, you can go totransactingvaluepodcastcom.
You can click to see all of ourseasons and other episodes.
You can leave us a voicemailand that includes any feedback
(50:22):
you've got.
If you want to send an audiofile via voicemail on our
website to Tracy, you can leaveher one and we'll forward it
along to her as well.
You can give her feedback, youcan give her encouragement, you
can ask her questions.
Totally cool, not a problem atall.
Guys, I appreciate theopportunity and for you guys to
stay with us listen to theconversation, everything was
absolutely great from my opinionand my perspective, tracy.
(50:43):
Thank you again to everybodyelse Until we talk again next
time.
That was Transacting Value.
Thank you to our show partnersand folks.
Thank you for tuning in andappreciating our value as we all
grow through life together.
To check out our otherconversations or even to
contribute through feedback,follows, time, money or talent
(51:03):
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(51:23):
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(51:44):
your posterity, we will continueinstigating self-worth and
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Until next time.
That was Transacting Value.
The views expressed in this podcast are
solely those of the podcast hostand guest and do not
necessarily represent those ofour distribution partners,
supporting businessrelationships or supported
audience.
Welcome to Transacting Value,where we talk about practical
(00:22):
applications for instigatingself-worth when dealing with
each other and even withinourselves, where we foster a
podcast listening experiencethat lets you hear the power of
a value system for managingburnout, establishing boundaries
, fostering community andfinding identity.
My name is Josh Porthouse, I'myour host and we are redefining
sovereignty of character.
(00:42):
This is why values still holdvalue.
This is Transacting Value.
Tracey Gramenz (00:49):
You've got to know individually your values,
separate from the relationship,and then you have to know your
values together as a couple andactually have a conversation
about it rather than just go onautopilot.
Josh Porthouse (01:06):
Today, on Transacting Value, we're talking
regaining identity afterdivorce.
Now, for some, divorce meanscelebrate and for others,
reinvent, but for most people,it also means turmoil and
confusion and stress andidentity crisis.
(01:27):
And so today we're talking todivorce coach, tracy Grahmins.
All about options and ways wecan regain our identity in the
process and rebuild our families, reinstigate our self-worth.
So, without further ado, I'mJosh Portos, I'm your host and,
from SDYT Media outside of Tampa, florida, this is Transacting
(01:51):
Value.
Tracy, how are you doing?
Tracey Gramenz (01:55):
I'm doing really well today, Josh.
How about yourself?
Josh Porthouse (01:58):
I'm good.
I'm good.
I appreciate you taking timeout of your day too.
I understand you've got a lifeand a career, and to just sit
down and have a conversationmaybe is something you had to
squeeze in, so I don't want itto go unnoticed.
Thank you first off.
Before we get started oh, mypleasure is necessary.
(02:40):
So let me say this my backgroundis primarily in the Marine
Corps, in the infantry at that,and I know more people who are
or have been divorced than whoare or have stayed married, and
so the majority of myprofessional sphere is very
similarly like-minded in thatregard as it applies to
relationships and whateverjadedness comes with that.
So I'm excited to hear some ofthese perspectives you've got.
But let's start here before Iget ahead of myself.
For anybody and everybody newto the show, especially those
(03:02):
who are unfamiliar with you,your practice, your insights,
your perspective, let's justtake a couple minutes and set
the stage for a little bit ofresonance here.
The floor is yours.
Who are you, where are you fromand what sorts of things have
shaped your perspective on life?
Tracey Gramenz (03:17):
Yeah, I'm Tracy and I live in Seattle, sunny
Seattle right now, surprisinglyin November, when, um, when
we're recording this and my workis working with women as a
divorce coach and, um, a lot ofpeople don't even know what a
divorce coach is.
Um, but really what it is is aguide to like, walk alongside
(03:44):
you, and what I always tell myclients is help you stay aligned
or find your alignment whileyou're going through one of the
top, most stressful seasons oflife, which is divorce, and
partly why we're having thisconversation is a lot of that
work is identifying orre-identifying values.
(04:04):
Of that work is identifying orre-identifying values.
So I help people reshape andreimagine their values so that
they can walk in alignment asthey move forward into the next
season of their life.
Josh Porthouse (04:16):
Which I assume is not easy for anybody involved
, probably you included.
Tracey Gramenz (04:23):
Yeah, I mean I really have rethought about how
I view divorce as I dive deeperinto this work, and I think the
initial reaction from otherswhen you talk about divorce is
usually I'm so sorry or that'sso hard, or all of the hard side
of it.
But what I really get excitedabout actually is all of the
(04:47):
opportunity for growth thatthere is.
You know, when you're rippedopen and like when you've tilled
up the soil, that is the timeto plant seeds right.
It's that moment, that is thetime and it's timestamped, and
so it's actually a reallyexciting time, and the hard
things that happen are thingsthat can make you stronger, and
(05:09):
so it's like everything is goingfor you and that's really the
reframe I try to help my clientsget to.
Everything is going for me,Everything is working out to the
benefit of me and my children.
Josh Porthouse (05:22):
Yeah, and do you actually have a garden?
Tracey Gramenz (05:27):
I do have a garden.
I'm more of a construction girl, but I have a garden in my
backyard.
Josh Porthouse (05:32):
Okay, okay.
Yeah, I was wondering, just soI can prep my metaphors to match
you a little bit.
I didn't want it to gounnoticed.
Tracey Gramenz (05:41):
I do a lot of house renovation metaphors like
tear down to rebuild, um that is.
That is a lot of where I gousually, but the garden one.
Josh Porthouse (05:50):
It's just something that it's a good image
, right I like it absolutely and, from what I understand, uh,
actually you did tear down andrebuild and redecorate and
reframe everything that I'mseeing in the background.
Right, that was all you.
Tracey Gramenz (06:04):
Yeah, yeah, I know no one could like see these
, but yeah, I did this like fullum remodel of this whole house,
like everything you see here ummy hands have touched and
created.
Josh Porthouse (06:15):
Yeah, that looks really cool.
That's gotta be satisfying too.
Tracey Gramenz (06:18):
Oh my gosh, yeah , and that's the thing I think,
that I, I, um.
So my other brief background isfive years ago I went through
my own divorce and, in theprocess, purchased the home I'm
in now.
That was set to be torn downand it's like the beautiful
metaphor of like anything can be.
Anything can be restored andredeemed, anything can be made
(06:39):
beautiful, and as I wasrestoring and reimagining my
life, I had a physical space toalso transform.
You know, and I, and it was agood reminder that
transformation is slow and also,when you start with a clear
vision, you don't give up.
You know where you're going andso you just keep working and
(07:02):
you go by the drywall, you haulthe concrete in, you rip out the
flooring, like just the wholeprocess.
You know, but you just keepgoing because you know every
effort.
Every day, when you put forth alittle bit of effort, it is
getting you closer to that goalwhen you have clarity but in the
beginning you don't haveanything.
Josh Porthouse (07:22):
You may not even actually have anything, so
right, I mean what?
What then?
Like you know, you go from Idon't know a monday where you're
hearing.
I'll see you after work.
To tuesday, I'll see you incourt.
You know everything.
There's always the the momentwhere, pre-moment, everything
(07:44):
seems okay to somebody.
Chances are usually at leastthat's the case, I think in some
sense the lucky ones know it'scoming yeah but that's not
always the case.
And so if you don't have thatclarity because of the, the
stress, the overwhelm, theanxiety, the, the identity
crisis, any of these otherthings, well then you can't
(08:06):
really start with a clear vision.
So what has to come first inthose the overwhelm, the anxiety
, the identity?
Tracey Gramenz (08:10):
crisis, any of these other things, well then
you can't really start with aclear vision.
So what has to come first inthose cases?
You know, as coaches, we arealways forward focused, right.
So we're looking at where arewe going, not necessarily where
we came from.
So, in a way, sometimes thebackstory not that it doesn't
matter but you are still goingto have to transform.
Regardless, your life haschanged, whether it was your
decision to leave, whether yougot handed paper as well after
(08:33):
you dropped your kid off atpreschool, or whatever you
you've got to move forward andand rediscover what's important
to you, what your values are.
And so I don't like to get toocaught up in whatever the
backstory is, because that canhold us back, because what we're
(08:54):
doing now is we're movingforward and we are growing, and
so the step one is kind of likewe untangle right.
I mean, literally in the firstsession I had with people, we
sit down and talk about valuesto say what, what is important
to you now, for me, thebeginning of my journey, that my
(09:14):
three most important things, myvalues, became one my kids and,
specifically, time with them.
So when I had my kids, all of asudden you know you're not with
your kids every night.
So when I had them, my valuewas I will always be with them.
I'm not going to make otherplans, I'm not going to squeeze
something else in.
I'm not going to say yes to anevent.
No, it's an automatic no.
(09:35):
I can look at my calendar ayear from now and I can tell you
yes or no if I will do thatthing.
And then also for me, I justwanted peace.
That became actually my corepillar of value, and I learned
what it looks like for me, whatit felt like, and so all of my
decisions ricocheted off of okay, is this bringing me closer to
(09:57):
peace or further away?
And then, for me, my third onewas beauty.
Like I tore down my heart, Irealized I want to see beauty, I
want to have beauty around me,I want to be a beautiful person,
and so it actually really didstart with remodeling my home,
you know.
And so I take clients to thatsame process in a conversation.
(10:18):
So a lot of people think theyknow what their values are, but
they don't actually talk themout.
Or maybe they had gotten usedto living a certain way with
their partner.
Now that partner's no longer,and so they have the opportunity
to say, well, did I really likeskiing or ski vacations, or is
that just something we did?
Did I really value, you know,whatever they got into the
(10:40):
rhythm of doing?
Did I really value that, or isthat just a habit?
Right, a habit and a value arevery different things.
Josh Porthouse (10:47):
Yeah, absolutely Absolutely.
And on one hand, like I saidmost well before we recorded,
most of my professional careerin the Marine Corps has been in
the infantry, so a lot of myperspective tends to get
grounded in, you know, actuallytactical environments or mission
planning or whatever, becausethat's when my frontal lobe
(11:09):
developed.
I guess I don't know, but itbecame my baseline to sort of
understand the world.
And so we have this concept.
And in the 1950s he was afighter pilot, he was a colonel,
john Boyd, and he came up withthis concept to help fighter
pilots more quickly orientthemselves in a dogfight,
(11:34):
whether fighting other planesand pilots in the sky, because
everything's happening at Mach 1or faster, I don't actually
know.
I'm on the ground, but quickly,right.
And so his cycle was observe,orient, decide, act, and it was
all relatively short syllabicwords that they could think
(11:54):
about when the blood's rushingdown out of their heads, and
something to keep them focusedand give them something to key
in on.
And I feel like high stresssituations, like obviously
during a divorce, key in on andI feel like high stress
situations, like obviouslyduring a divorce, isn't moving
that fast, but it certainlyfeels that way and there's got
to be this simple sort offramework, I think, just
(12:16):
initially to ground you and Ithink you're exactly right, you
said it, I think, beautifullywhere values can be that
mechanism.
And so maybe it's the simpleconversation of not worrying
about what you don't have orcan't control, but what do you
have, which ultimately, I think,is your character and
perspective on the world.
So I think it's a great point.
But then how do you instigatethat?
(12:38):
Because, like you said, if youridentity is rooted in a married
couple, namely you and somebodyelse, and then it's just you,
then how do you know?
I mean, you question everything.
That sounds just asoverwhelming.
Do you give yourself all theoptions?
That sounds super anxious.
How do you narrow down frommany to few?
(13:01):
Then?
Tracey Gramenz (13:02):
Yeah, I think it begins by just noticing.
I think you pay attention toyourself.
What do you naturally gravitatetoward?
What would you, what do youfind yourself doing, no matter
what?
What sparks a little bit of joyin you?
Like, pay attention to yourself, and I think sometimes we,
(13:24):
especially with big words likevalues, or what am I doing with
my life?
It gets so big, but all of uslive each day, one day at a time
, right, and so I try to likestep back actually from the big
and look at, look at the day,break it down.
What brought you joy today, youknow?
(13:45):
Oh, it was when my clients withbeing in the garden.
That's important to me.
Oh, I brought my neighbor somesoup.
Oh, so your value is helping.
Or your value is nature.
Oh, I see you know.
So look at the little thingsthat you do and then notice that
you can extrapolate from therewhat your value is.
Josh Porthouse (14:06):
All right, folks sit tight, We'll be right back
on Transacting Value.
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Tracey Gramenz (15:11):
So look at the little things that you do and
then notice that you canextrapolate from there what your
value is.
Josh Porthouse (15:21):
Okay, so is it always rooted in some kind of
act now you got me doing theplant thing is it always
anchored in some sort of uh,action or activity identifying
your values, or is it based on aperspective and a thought
process?
I mean, where where do youthink in your experience, maybe
(15:42):
individually or working withclients do values come from?
Tracey Gramenz (15:47):
I think that I'll just speak from my own
personal experience.
Um, I, when I was noticing whatI valued, what was important to
me.
It was kind of a?
Um, it was multiple things,sometimes it was actions.
So I found myself always goingdown to watch the sunset the
night.
My kids would go back to be withher dad, and what is that?
(16:08):
That's a value of valuingnature, a value in beauty, a
valuing time alone, you know,and a prioritizing, just being
and being okay with just myself,you know.
And so I noticed this activitythat turned into kind of a core
value for me of I'm someone whovalues time and nature, who
(16:30):
values beauty, and then, withkid stuff that is more like that
was more conceptual thinking.
Ok, I have this new structureof time, how do I want to go
about and decide, you know,decide once, I'm deciding once
when I have my kids, I'm notmaking other plans, it's already
decided, I don't have torethink.
(16:51):
So I think that there's manyways you can go about it, but it
just first starts with gettingquiet and getting um, honest
with yourself and just kind ofnoticing yourself, you know is
it the same concept or framework?
Josh Porthouse (17:06):
I mean, you said , for example, after your
divorce, you're able to see yourkids.
Well, after mine, I wasn't.
We were in two different Statesfor years, so actually up until
recently within the last year,and so you know, we spent five
years in a long distancerelationship.
Do you think it's the sameframework, then, that you can or
can they shift and changedepending on circumstance, or is
(17:30):
it subjective time of day?
I mean, how consistent arethese values?
Do you think?
Tracey Gramenz (17:35):
Well, I think, like in that case, like if, if
you were my client and we wereworking you know way, you know,
years ago, when that firststarted, we would probably have
a conversation around your valueof parenting and what being a
father means to you, and wewould probably talk something
around saying a family bond, abond between a parent and their
(17:58):
children, is there forever andthere are circumstances that can
take us physically apart fromour kids for days or even years,
but that doesn't change yourvalue as a loving parent or the
unbreakable bond that we havewith our kids.
And so it would be more what ismy value system as a parent
(18:18):
when I'm not in control of thetime?
You know, because you are incontrol of your perspective.
Josh Porthouse (18:26):
Yeah, sure, and so I guess that at that point it
would be relatively subjectiveto changing factors or or
whatever opportunities presentedthemselves to reevaluate if
necessary.
Tracey Gramenz (18:37):
Yeah, yeah, so it would just be more.
I mean that kind of shifts alittle bit more to mindset work,
which is also a big part of,you know, the any, the divorce
process and certainly any anytransitional work that we do.
But yeah, I mean it all kind ofdovetails together your values,
your mindset and then yourstrategies to enact and live by
(18:58):
your values.
Josh Porthouse (19:00):
OK, well, well.
So let me challenge that pointfor a second, then, because I
thought I knew at the timeactually about five years ago.
I thought I knew at the time.
Okay, well, this is what Ivalue, this is how I see the
world, this is how I prioritizewhatever inputs are happening
around me, and I think initiallyI felt communication was
(19:22):
important and authenticity wasimportant.
I'm not sure I really knew whatthey meant or to what extent I
thought they were important, butI remember thinking something
similar.
My point is then I filled itwith work.
I found crutches and copingmechanisms and other options,
because even though I recognizedthose things, I'm not entirely
(19:46):
sure they were grounded in muchof anything, let alone anything
productive.
It was circumstantially, asit's turning out, something that
I just happened to try towhatever degree of effect, but
then supplemented with whateverI was getting into.
I go to the gym twice a dayjust to spend six hours anywhere
(20:07):
but home.
Uh, you know, go out withbuddies or drink, or sit on the
back porch or whatever, whatever, any number of things you know,
stay at work late just because,and was all this because you
were avoiding um that, that painor that transition, or being
away from your kids, or what wasthe root of all that?
(20:31):
Well, that's an interestingquestion.
I think in my case, what I wasmore avoiding was the overwhelm
and honesty with myself aboutmyself, because I'd never
thought about it.
I had to do, you know, whateverblue collar work, or after I
(20:55):
enlisted, obviously it was alldepartment of defense stuff,
whatever they told me I had todo, and there was never really
any time or need to think aboutit, because your focus is
everybody else, and so I thinkthat's what scared me the most
initially, and then theoverwhelm of, well, now I don't
know how to do it or what to door or why I need to do it.
I'm fine, I'll be okay.
You know, is that because theanchor of your role was taken
(21:20):
from you?
I don't think I knew my role tobegin with.
I think I well, at least Idon't think I recognized it, let
alone knew it.
You know, it's not like it wasmy fourth marriage or or
whatever.
I mean, both my parents weredivorced as well, so I really
never saw, or or at least, if Idid see it, I never really
recognized what that role couldbe, and maybe that contributed
to a little bit of my owncomfort or complicity in the, I
(21:42):
guess, grieving process.
But it was easier because itwas a routine to just cope and
swap and supplement with work orstaying busy or whatever,
because I didn't know how toslow down, which also probably
directly correlated to thedivorce.
But, yeah, and and everythingthat went with it, cause we were
(22:03):
on different, different planesconversationally, uh,
cognitively, I was way behind.
Where she was.
She was more concerned with thefamily and focusing on these
types of quality time things.
I was like, concerned with thefamily and focusing on these
types of quality time things.
I was like I'm focused onproviding and an income and the
stuff outside the family unitstructure, you know, and I
(22:24):
assume that's pretty commonthough, is it?
Tracey Gramenz (22:28):
yeah, well, for sure.
I mean, I think the common, themost um common cause of divorce
, when initiated by a woman, isa woman hard of feeling alone
and tired of feeling like she'sdoing it all right.
Where the male in a traditionalmale female relationship, where
the man is providing and feelslike he's checked off the box
(22:48):
and the woman is, you know, gother list 20, 20 items deep and
and she feels tired of feelingunsupported, and the man gets
kind of blindsided because he'slike, but literally all I do is
support you financially andthat's the disconnect right that
leads to a lot of separation.
Josh Porthouse (23:09):
Okay, so how do you communicate through it
before the point then?
Tracey Gramenz (23:13):
Yeah, before that.
Josh Porthouse (23:14):
Yeah, how do you work on communication and
awareness and individualidentity as a couple?
Tracey Gramenz (23:22):
Yeah, I mean, I think that kind of going back to
the whole root of this.
This your show is you've got toknow individually your values,
separate from the relationship,and then you have to know your
values together as a couple.
What do we?
What do we value?
Do we value time apart?
Do we value independence?
Do we value togetherness, likewhat?
(23:44):
What do we actually care aboutand actually have a conversation
about it rather than just go onautopilot?
I think a lot of us just livein autopilot and then and we
don't like to have hardconversations you know, or maybe
we don't know ourselves youknow a lot of folks that get
married really young.
Do you do you know what isvaluable to you?
(24:06):
Do you know what's important?
You know, oftentimes either youdon't or you do, and it changes
.
Josh Porthouse (24:12):
Okay, fair.
So that's that's obviously agreat point as well, that it's
normal, see, because I thinkwhat I heard initially and then
now also from you people who getmarried young tend to run into
issues sooner, you know, becauseyou're maturing faster than
maybe you're ready for.
But also, I think the otherpoint to that younger reference
(24:38):
is in terms of maturity you justdon't have the life experience
to know you well enough, letalone to help somebody rely on
you or vice versa, rely onsomebody else.
Yeah, exactly the A-frame isnot strong enough.
And though then the top I thinkupper threshold to that
comparison is okay.
Well now I'm never going to beready.
(25:00):
Or how can I know that I'm everready?
Will I ever be mature enough?
The same reason people don'thave kids or don't want you know
that kind of argument.
So how do you know then, whenyou're old enough to get married
, or mature enough to know?
Or is there a threshold?
Tracey Gramenz (25:15):
Yeah, I mean, I think that's just so
individualized, right.
I mean, we're, you know, we areconstantly growing.
I think that maybe one responseto that to consider is, you
know, reframing even how youlook at partnerships and
marriages and thinking is thegoal of a marriage, um, to
(25:36):
absolutely for sure staytogether with someone for your
whole life?
Or is the goal?
What I would suggest is thegoal of a partnership is to
uplift someone and help themreach their goals and have them
do the same for you, whileliving in peace and continuing
(25:56):
to do that day after day and, ifthat changes, being brave
enough to say we are no longerhelping each other.
You know, I think we just lookat longevity as the marker, the
hallmark for a good marriage,and then divorce as a hallmark
for failure, when really divorcecan be the bravest thing that
(26:19):
you can do and it can be thekindest thing that you can do
with a partnership, when you'reno longer aligned and you are
having the courage to say thisisn't working, so we're going to
do something different.
Josh Porthouse (26:33):
All right, folks sit tight and We'll be right
back on Transacting Value.
Join us for Transacting Value,where we discuss practical
applications of personal values,every Monday at 9am on our
website,transactingvaluepodcastcom.
Wednesdays at 5pm and Sundaysat noon on
wreathsacrossamericaorg slashradio.
(26:53):
On wreathsacrossamericaorgslash radio.
Tracey Gramenz (26:56):
Really, divorce can be the bravest thing that
you can do and it can be thekindest thing that you can do
with a partnership, when you'reno longer aligned and you are
having the courage to say thisisn't working, so we're going to
do something different.
Josh Porthouse (27:12):
Okay, well then, what's the threshold for that?
Because then, well, is it thethreshold for that?
For what?
Well, is it the first argument?
You're like this isn't working,I'm out, or is it?
You know what let's give?
it 10 years.
Tracey Gramenz (27:24):
trigger?
I think that's one of the mostbrutal questions to ask yourself
.
I personally remember literallyGoogling when.
I'm on the internet, I was likeshould I leave my husband?
Should I leave him if I don'tlove him?
I felt like I just for so longI had this just pit in my
(27:47):
stomach, a feeling like thisisn't, this isn't right, like
this doesn't seem right, thisdoesn't seem right, this doesn't
seem right, this doesn't seemright, this doesn't seem right,
this doesn't seem right.
And I didn't, because Ibelieved in commitment and
marriage and sticking it out,and I had been told by society
(28:08):
relationships are hard, justkeep working, just keep working.
And that message was over andover and over.
And finally, I remember mybrother called me he's like
Tracy.
Finally remember my brothercalled me he's like tracy.
Josh Porthouse (28:18):
Relationships require work, but it shouldn't
be this hard.
Tracey Gramenz (28:20):
You know, and I think that that is such an
individual gauge of like, whatis the balance of work meaning?
I care for my partner, so I'mgoing out of my way to be kind,
be supportive.
That is work.
It's happy work, right.
And then the work of the dread,oh my gosh.
Like if your body turns up whenthey walk in the door and that
(28:40):
happens, like for a month or ayear or five years.
Josh Porthouse (28:45):
And it's more subconscious than conscious.
Tracey Gramenz (28:49):
Yeah, it's not about like a fight or this or
that.
It's like are you?
You have to just be so braveand honest with yourself and
determine am I being aligned inthis situation?
And you know, the averageperson attempts to leave seven
times before actually arelationship ends.
(29:09):
So, and also, what I personallyexperienced too, is divorce is
so hard that it does not be easyout, and you know this too.
Like divorce is very hard, it'sbrutal, and no one would do it
If the alternative was easier.
Right, we only step into itbecause it's really it's, it's,
(29:30):
it's so.
It's such an upheaval of yourlife and I'm no, I'm no divorce
advocate.
It's such an upheaval of yourlife and I'm no divorce advocate
.
I'm a alignment advocate.
I am here to help people thrive.
I'm not here to tell everyoneto leave their marriages the
minute they have a fight.
Absolutely not.
People come to me after they'vealready decided to leave their
marriage right.
I believe in partnership andcommitment.
That thing I believe the mostin is aligned, empowered,
(29:55):
peaceful humans.
Josh Porthouse (29:59):
I can appreciate that and I think everything and
this is my personal opinion, Imean everything stems from
family, because it gives you atleast a baseline or should.
Normally there's exceptions toall of these things, but it
(30:19):
gives you a baseline for trustand courage and communication,
love, selfishness and altruismand all sorts of different
things.
And then the thresholds forthose things.
Is greed always bad?
No, because I never one timegot to get seconds when my
(30:39):
younger brother was eating atthe table with us.
He did, though Right, I wasolder, I should.
It's fine, your brother needsto eat.
He's a growing boy.
You know like okay, but youlearn.
You know sometimes that's okaytoo.
And then other times whenthere's extra rolls.
I'm not giving him any becausehe had it yesterday, you know so
then you learn fairness andgreed or whatever you know.
(31:02):
There's all sorts of lessons youcan learn, I think in family is
my point.
But it's not always family oforigin.
I think you can have familiesthat you create over time, you
and your friends.
Or, in this example, I don'tknow how well you get along with
your ex-husband, I'm in aamicable enough position with my
(31:25):
ex-wife and that's okay,because then it also affords
opportunities to teach thatconflict is natural and how to
work through conflict or how toattempt to, and life's not
always fair, and all the otherlessons that come with it.
But I'll tell you this, tracy,and obviously for everybody
listening as well I think all ofthose what would you call those
(31:45):
corollary points or qualifiersor whatever come from a value
system, and so I'm curious,because you didn't just make all
this stuff up.
In fact you said when you satdown and thought about it it was
already there.
So this is a segment of theshow called Developing Character
and it's two questions.
(32:07):
It's entirely vulnerable, orwhatever, as you want to be in
depth, to any of these answers,but I want to try to get the
picture of a timeline here, allright, and see how things maybe
changed or, naturally, over timeinfluenced your perspective to
be able to handle this maturelyin some sort of a
self-controlled you know,regulatory fashion, despite the
(32:28):
chaos.
So my first question is whenyou were growing up, what were
some of your values then, orthat you were exposed to or
raised on?
What was the foundation?
Tracey Gramenz (32:39):
So my foundation and my roots come from a
Christian upbringing.
My family was, I would say,like Christian in a good way.
I mean it was very positive.
It was um great community andwe had always lots of friends,
always um doing a lot of servicework, you know it was.
(33:02):
It was um very wholesome, Iwould say, and also for sure
that it it was.
Christianity in and of itselfIsn't there's, there's belief
and faith, and then there'scultural norms, right, or
cultural beliefs, and those arenot necessarily, even at the
(33:26):
time, my values, and they arenot anymore.
But I think the thing that thatwas a real value or was really
ingrained in us was like thisvery evangelical nature to
christianity, like hey, if youdon't believe in this, you're
done, so you're out yeah you'regoing to hell and yeah
(33:47):
yeah and um.
So as I reflected on that, whatI was raised with in my 20s, I
first tried to quit God.
I was like I'm done with this,and I think that was really kind
of a turning point for me toown what I actually cared about.
(34:10):
So for me, what I realized wasthat there's tenets and of that
upbringing that I hold dearlyand actually it's just one.
It's just one that I reallycling to and it and it's my
foundation, which is we are allso loved.
We're all just so loved, and Idon't believe in a kind of
(34:37):
man-made or culture-made beliefsystem, a faith system, but I do
believe in the energetics ofthe universe, I do believe in
love and I do believe in that.
We are intentionally here.
We are intentionally here, yeah.
Josh Porthouse (35:00):
That's probably the most important thing that I
took away from my upbringing.
Okay, well then, growing upover, I can probably safely
assume, the next few decadesthen what about now?
What are some of your valuesnow then?
Tracey Gramenz (35:17):
So now I think that, like I was sharing a
little bit earlier, I didn'tjust get divorced and create
values, but now I know what Icare about.
But I mean for me, I think it'sreally simple, right, I, I care
(35:37):
about my family, I care about myfriendships and I care about my
personal physical health andpeace of mind.
Those are the things.
So, if every day, I'm beingwith my kids, I'm connecting
with at least one friend, Iconnect with my friends every
(35:58):
single day a lot of them, andit's so important to me and I'm
taking care of my body, I'mworking out, I'm mountain biking
, I'm doing whatever, and I'mkeeping my mind peaceful by
being in nature, being quiet,cleaning my house my favorite
peace inducing activity um,you're like, you're so obsessed
with cleaning.
(36:18):
Um, those are things I mean.
I think it's it's simple, right, like the how, like we're
talking about also earlier.
Each day it's tacked up, makesour life.
So when you try to get your,keep your ingredients good and
simple in your days, and thatwill make a good life, you know
(36:39):
All right, folks sit tight andwe'll be right back on
Transacting Value.
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(37:09):
Alongside a network ofexperienced marketers,
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We are your neighbors and we'repassionate about helping you
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Tracey Gramenz (37:33):
Each day is tacked up makes our life.
So when you try to get your,keep your ingredients good and
simple in your days and thatwill make a good life, you know.
Josh Porthouse (37:45):
Yeah, well, I think it can if you, if you
recognize what you have.
Yeah, if you don't, I think itcan be just as neglected or or
wasted, or or just omittedentirely because you don't.
I think it can be just asneglected or wasted or just
omitted entirely because youdon't know what you've got.
The beauty that you talkedabout, the simplicity and the
peace that you've been talkingabout, the more you thought
(38:06):
about it.
I'm curious was that therebefore, or was it things that
started to manifest the more youthought about it?
You know what I mean?
Was it always sort of resonant?
You just didn't pay attentionto it until you were able to
slow down um, like my, myconnection to beauty and peace
or my need for that yeah to someof these values you're talking
about now.
(38:27):
I mean, were they always there?
You just didn't, you know,smell the roses, or something I
don't know.
Tracey Gramenz (38:33):
Um, I do think, yes, I think that my perspective
has always been rather similar.
I think that I, when I speak ofkind of rediscovering or
redefining these values, a lotof it was just detangling from a
really hard marriage, for youknow that decade of my life that
it was there.
So I would say I still even hadall these things throughout,
(38:56):
you know, childhood, through thetwenties, through my marriage
and then post divorce.
I think I'm just more aware ofthem and I more defined them and
realize, recognize, as I getolder, as we all get older, how
important it is to talk aboutand define those things to so
(39:18):
that you can make sure thatyou're living by what is
important to you you know, okay,okay.
Josh Porthouse (39:24):
So is that a maturity consideration?
You just it'll make sense whenyou're older.
Get through it now, you'll beokay, you know, get a job and
then slow down later.
Or is that something you think?
Yeah, with enough consciouseffort, you can.
You can piece this together andyou can make it work and and
(39:44):
figure out who you are, nomatter your age, or cognitive
development or whatever.
Tracey Gramenz (39:51):
I think both, and I think that we always have
access to self-awareness andpaying attention to life, living
in gratitude, those things thatsound so trite but are so
profound.
We all have access to that all,and I I believe I I did access
that and lived by that along theway.
You know, and and with age, Ithink that you do get a richer
(40:16):
perspective and you do have moregratitude and you realize how
much more simple everything islike, or the things that are
really important are thesimplest things, right, being
kind, spending time with peoplethat you love.
You know being grateful, youknow being aware of the magic
that's happening all around you,and so, yeah, I think it's a
(40:39):
both, both hands to thatquestion.
Josh Porthouse (40:42):
Yeah, Well, I can appreciate that.
I mean the experience alone ofgrowing up and getting older,
the experience alone is overtime.
If you know, you pay enoughattention and I'm, and I think
enough is a minimal degree ofattention.
But if you pay enough attention, you can start to see the
patterns, you can start to seethe events or the causation that
(41:02):
led to some of them, orbehaviors, actions, people,
personality types or whatever itis.
And so, yeah, I think it'seasier to learn in hindsight
because of those biases,prejudices, pattern recognition,
habits of thought or action,you know.
But then what if you don't haveit?
I'm curious because, like yousaid earlier, plenty of people
(41:23):
get married young and then getdivorced young and then fall
into a similar kind ofrelationship or with the same
type of person, maybe all overagain, just a different last
name.
So what then?
Because obviously in that case,or generally let me say that
generally then it wasn'trecognized in advance to avoid
(41:44):
it, to change some circumstanceor some aspect or perception.
So what advice do you have then?
Suck it up, Wait till the thirdtime.
Tracey Gramenz (41:56):
Just being kind to yourself and looking at it
for what it is.
Okay, you, you repeated apattern.
Now you're aware that yourepeated a pattern.
Okay, so you, now that you'reaware of it, you can potentially
not repeat it again.
And if you do repeat it again,then you're going to be able to
do it again.
Take shame out of the equationand just look at the pattern.
(42:19):
Don't beat yourself up, right?
We live in so much shame andfear and guilt and those things.
Don't let us get to the root ofwhat we're actually dealing
with.
So take those off of your plate, recognize your pattern and try
again.
You know, our whole life isjust about trying again and we
constantly make mistakes or weconstantly get a little bit or a
(42:43):
lot bit off kilter, and we can.
All we can do is recognize itand keep trying, you know.
Josh Porthouse (42:51):
Yeah, but that's well.
That's hard in itself, not justthe recognition but taking
shame out of the equation or thegrief or whatever.
Tracey Gramenz (42:59):
That's the most important thing, that is the
most important thing.
That is the most important thing.
Just think about it.
This here's another.
This is just our gardens gardenepisode.
Think about your yard.
Right, it's got dandelionseverywhere.
You're going to go out thereand you're just going to clip
off the dandelions and what isgoing to happen?
They're going to grow back,right.
That is what happens when youonly deal with shame.
(43:22):
Shame is a dandelion, right,I'm going to take it off.
I mean, I'm just going to onlylive in shame and you never get
to the root and it's justwhatever is happening there.
When you're only addressingyour shame, I'm so ashamed of
that, I'm just self-loathing.
Oh my gosh, I'm so embarrassedand you only live in that and
you never go deeper.
Then that same root is justgoing to grow another dandelion,
(43:46):
another weed.
It is scary to go deeper.
Josh Porthouse (43:51):
That's tough, even if you're by yourself in
your house, alone in your ownhead, not even out loud.
Tracey Gramenz (43:59):
Oh my gosh your head can be the scariest place
to be right, yeah.
Josh Porthouse (44:09):
So let me ask you this then, and I guess, for
the sake of time, I only have acouple more questions for you.
But when that happens, thatsort of I'll say inescapable
feeling, you're stuck in yourhead and you're working through,
let's say, shame and guilt andfear and all of these things, I
think you have two options youfight or flight and you say, no,
I'm not dealing with it, andthen you just go about your way
(44:30):
and it becomes what it is, oryou do something about it to
whatever extent and maybe manageit better, as the outcome.
Are either of those optionsbetter than the other?
Are both bad or both good?
Is there a good and bad?
Is it acceptable, unacceptable?
What's your opinion?
Because everybody gets there atsome point.
(44:51):
It's part of the grief process.
Tracey Gramenz (44:54):
Yeah, I just think again, I mean everything
in life being in your head, theshame, the cycling through all
the stuff is, it can beinevitable.
But I think that making itsmaller is helpful.
(45:14):
Like you're stuck in your headabout a thing and the I don't
know if, fight or flight, Icould say, okay, what is better
or worse, but I think, justbreaking it down and being like,
well, what can I do?
You know, is there a smallthing I can do?
And again, as best you can,being kind to yourself and not
(45:39):
beating yourself up and justbeing like, just sometimes I say
out loud I mean I do this withmy kids all the time.
Hey, um, I got really upset andI I shouldn't have done that.
I was, you know, triggered bythis or whatever.
I was dealing with this thingat work or this stressful
situation and I let it boil overinto my emotions.
(45:59):
I'm sorry, but what I don't dois I don't like live in fear or
live in shame that night,mulling it over.
Oh my gosh, I gave my kids apoor, bad memory, right, oh my
gosh, because then I'm justpulling down my own vibration,
I'm lashing myself, and thatserves no purpose.
How is that moving towardgrowth.
(46:21):
So I think the more conciseanswer is just move toward
growth in the smallest, simplestway you can imagine in that
moment.
Just move toward growth.
Josh Porthouse (46:33):
Yeah, a fair amount of grace, dignity grace
dignity, respect and obviouslyself-awareness makes a huge
difference.
Yeah, I mean, it really doesn'ttake much if you're able and
aware enough to say I'll be okay.
You probably will be, at leastfor that day, at least for that
(46:56):
hour.
Yeah, you know, it makes a hugedifference.
So I have two more questionsfor you, and one is maybe a bit
more personal.
But of all of your experiencesthen let's say personally or
working with your clients, whathas it actually done, then, for
your sense of self and how hasit instigated your own
(47:18):
self-worth?
Tracey Gramenz (47:19):
now that you've had time to reflect and process,
I'm just really proud of myself, and so I feel really good
about myself, I feel at peace.
I think that's the biggestthing is, I'm proud of how I'm
living, I'm proud of how I'mspending my time.
I'm proud of how I'm spendingmy time.
(47:41):
I'm proud of the alignment I'vebrought into my life with my
values and my goals and thethings that light me up, and so
I think really fundamentally,it's just led to a much more
peaceful mind, like we weretalking about just now.
My mind is at peace.
Josh Porthouse (47:57):
Wow, Well, congratulations then.
I mean that in itself is a hugeaccomplishment, but in spite of
everything else, especiallyyeah, yeah, wow, well, okay.
So my last question, then, isfor anybody that wants to get in
touch with you or talk to youas a coach, or hear more of your
story, where can people go, howcan they get in touch with you,
(48:20):
or what are some options?
Tracey Gramenz (48:22):
Yeah, they mainly can just go to my website
, tracygramenzcom, and that'swhere you can book a call with
me.
I love, I love to.
I have, you know, I have freediscovery calls.
So I love to jump on a 15 or 20minute call just to see where
you're at, you know, and it's sogreat to just hear someone
(48:42):
else's voice and have someoneoffer to walk alongside you.
So that's what I do.
You want to just like seepictures of my kids and me on a
mountain bike?
You can look at my Instagram atTracy, but most of my business
life is is just through medirectly on my website.
But, yeah, actually I'm gettingready to build a cottage in the
back of my house.
So, yeah, do follow me onInstagram and I'll share a
(49:04):
demolition and a really coollittle build on my other side of
my life.
Josh Porthouse (49:12):
Yeah, sick.
Yeah, that'd be cool.
Yeah, that'd be cool, all right.
Well then.
So for anybody who's new orunfamiliar with the show
depending on the player you'relistening to this conversation
on, there's a drop down arrow.
You can click see more.
You can click show more andyou'll see a description, the
show notes, the content for thisconversation.
In there you'll also be able tofind links to Tracy's website,
(49:35):
and then now the Instagram,because I got to see how this
cottage turns out, so that'sgoing to be there, but you guys
can get in touch with her thereas well.
Tracy, I love the conversation.
I actually wish we had moretime.
It was really cool to get toknow you, super awesome to feel
out your perspective, but thenlearn some things along the way.
I really enjoyed it, so Iappreciate it, thank you.
Tracey Gramenz (49:57):
Likewise.
Thank you, Josh.
So I appreciate it.
Thank you Likewise Thank you,josh, of course.
Josh Porthouse (50:01):
Now saying that for anybody listening to this
conversation, if you want tofind any of our other
conversations, you can go totransactingvaluepodcastcom.
You can click to see all of ourseasons and other episodes.
You can leave us a voicemailand that includes any feedback
(50:22):
you've got.
If you want to send an audiofile via voicemail on our
website to Tracy, you can leaveher one and we'll forward it
along to her as well.
You can give her feedback, youcan give her encouragement, you
can ask her questions.
Totally cool, not a problem atall.
Guys, I appreciate theopportunity and for you guys to
stay with us listen to theconversation, everything was
absolutely great from my opinionand my perspective, tracy.
(50:43):
Thank you again to everybodyelse Until we talk again next
time.
That was Transacting Value.
Thank you to our show partnersand folks.
Thank you for tuning in andappreciating our value as we all
grow through life together.
To check out our otherconversations or even to
contribute through feedback,follows, time, money or talent
(51:03):
and to let us know what youthink of the show, please leave
a review on our website,transactingvaluepodcastcom.
We also stream new episodesevery Monday at 9 am Eastern
Standard Time through all ofyour favorite podcasting
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You can now hear TransactingValue on Wreaths Across America
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(51:23):
Slash transactingvalue tosponsor a wreath and remember,
honor and teach the value offreedom for future generations.
On behalf of our team and ourglobal ambassadors, as you all
strive to establish clarity andpurpose, ensure social
tranquility and secure theblessings of liberty or
individual sovereignty ofcharacter for yourselves and
(51:44):
your posterity, we will continueinstigating self-worth and
we'll meet you there.
Until next time.
That was Transacting Value.
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