March 3, 2025 • 57 mins
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What happens when you leap out of a plane thousands of feet in the air? We uncover this and more in our conversation with Ross Mitchell, president of Leaps of Hope and a full-time skydiver. Skydiving isn't just a sport; it's a therapeutic journey that balances emotional highs and lows, providing a release for pent-up emotions. Ross opens up about the complexities of mental health and the pressures faced by individuals in high-stress careers. We close by spotlighting Ross's nonprofit, Leaps of Hope, which aims to offer veterans transformative experiences through skydiving. By fostering a supportive community, the organization hopes to share stories that extend beyond trauma, creating meaningful connections and a sense of purpose.
(13:29) https://www.passiton.com/
(37:16) https://cancer.va.gov/
Learn more about Leaps of Hope on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61567502383806
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Josh Porthouse (00:00):
The views expressed in this podcast are
solely those of the podcast hostand guest and do not
necessarily represent those ofour distribution partners,
supporting businessrelationships or supported
audience.
Welcome to Transacting Value,where we talk about practical
(00:22):
applications for instigatingself-worth when dealing with
each other and even withinourselves, where we foster a
podcast listening experiencethat lets you hear the power of
a value system for managingburnout, establishing boundaries
, fostering community andfinding identity.
My name is Josh Porthouse, I'myour host and we are redefining
sovereignty of character.
(00:42):
This is why values still holdvalue.
This is Transacting Value.
Ross Mitchell (00:49):
You can walk away .
It's just are you willing topart ways with an identity that
might be behind you at thispoint and you're kind of
clinging on to?
If you walk away, there areother opportunities out there.
Josh Porthouse (01:05):
Today on Transacting Value.
Who are you and how do you comeacross to people?
How well does it match up toyour expectations?
More importantly, and sometimesmost importantly, how accurate
is it?
Today's conversation we'retalking to the president of
Leaps of Hope, a nonprofit outof Utah.
All about his experiences, whatthat means and what he's done
(01:25):
about it.
I'm Josh Porthouse, I'm yourhost and from SDYT Media, this
is Transacting Value, ross.
What's up, man?
Ross Mitchell (01:34):
How are you doing , brother?
Josh Porthouse (01:35):
I'm good.
I'm good, I'm glad you made itout.
It's been, I think, a long timecoming now, give or take a
couple of years.
Maybe we've been talking aboutthis potentially.
Oh yeah, yeah.
So I appreciate the opportunity, I appreciate you flying out
here and making the trip, butthere's a lot of stuff I think
we need to catch up on.
Uh, the complexity here is thatnobody else knows who you are,
(01:57):
and so I've got a little bit ofan upper hand.
So let's just set the stagefrom the beginning, build a
little bit of resonance foreverybody watching or listening.
All right, so just take thenext couple minutes.
Man, who are you?
All right, where are you from?
Where do you live now?
What sort of things are shapingyour perspective on the world?
Ross Mitchell (02:13):
One thank you for having me.
It's really awesome to be hereand Florida's awesome.
I kind of don't want to go backto Utah, but don't tell my
friends that I'm sure they'llsee it.
But my name is Ross Mitchell.
I'm 29 years old.
I'm from Pittsburgh,pennsylvania, born and raised,
and I live out in Utah now whereI own a business.
We are starting a nonprofit andI am a full-time skydiver at
(02:37):
Skydive Utah.
Josh Porthouse (02:38):
Sweet Now.
Is that a statewide orstate-run program?
Skydive Utah.
Ross Mitchell (02:42):
No, skydive Utah is a small drop zone, like many
of them are throughout theUnited States.
It's a United States ParachuteAssociation accredited drop zone
out in a little valley calledTuella, utah.
It's about 30 minutes west ofSalt Lake City.
Oh, okay, there's three drops.
There's multiple drop zonesSkydive Moab and Moab.
Skydive Ogden a little north ofSalt Lake.
(03:04):
It's got to have the Wasatch alittle south of Salt Lake.
We're a bunch of drop zones allover the country, yeah.
Josh Porthouse (03:09):
And when you say drop zone, these are just what
airfields.
Ross Mitchell (03:12):
Yeah, anywhere you drop your body and you want
to land in that zone.
That's where you're at.
Yeah.
Josh Porthouse (03:19):
Okay, all right, so it.
You're saying that, though,because I think a lot of that
metaphor stands pretty similarlyright when you run into these
positions, like, for example,for anybody who's new to the
show, ross and I were actuallyin the Marine Corps together a
while ago I think it was six,five, six some years ago.
Ross Mitchell (03:36):
Eight years ago, sure Eight years ago.
Josh Porthouse (03:40):
Okay, all right, and there's a lot of things I
think that happened then, likein our case in Marine Corps
infantry, but there's a lot ofthings that happened then that
wouldn't happen at, like, youknow, your local JCPenney or Boy
Scout troop or you knowwhatever Any other group
(04:07):
programs and obviously the roleyou're filling.
But I imagine skydivers aresuch a uniquely tight-knit group
it's got to be pretty close.
Ross Mitchell (04:11):
You know, in the Marine Corps we used to say
there's no one else that willgive their life for you, but
then steal your pack ofcigarettes from you when you're
not looking.
Skydivers are very similar inthat way.
Um, sky skydivers are a uh, aroughneck crew of band of
misfits that all kind of youknow merge onto this island we
(04:33):
call a drop zone and they gettogether and they bond through
the sport of skydiving andthere's a lot of similarities
between what we do in thejumping uh area and in
comparison to the marine corps,if we're getting ready to go on
a mission or training, so on, soforth, which was a big lure for
(04:53):
me.
Josh Porthouse (04:54):
But skydivers do get very close, for for a
plethora of reasons you knowwell, what do you think is the
appeal then to that mindset,that psychographic, that kind of
environment for you when itcomes to working with other
people or small teams, or abusiness.
Ross Mitchell (05:12):
One thing that I've noticed about skydivers and
I've noticed this in the MarineCorps too, especially the
infantry is we do not domoderation right.
We cannot do three things at 33%.
We have to do one thing at 120.
If we find one thing, we haveto suck ourselves into it, learn
everything about it and do itas best as we can, and at mass.
(05:32):
That is most skydivers, right?
They don't do moderation, theylove stimulation, right?
And I've learned that there'sreasons for that the more you
get to talk to these folks.
They all come from differentwalks of life and they all have
had a lot of challenges thatthey've faced.
It's all relative.
Not everyone's trauma is thesame as the other, but more
(05:53):
often than not I've seen that alot of skydivers come from some
type of turmoil in life and thenyou go to a drop zone and you
go do this thing in their firsttandem.
It makes you feel so awesomeafterwards.
You feel so stoked and sopowered.
You're like man, I just didthat.
What's it all about?
And then you start to get toknow these people and you
(06:16):
realize, wow, all these folksare just as weird as me and I
can kind of let my barriers downand just be myself a little bit
.
And that was the allure for me.
It was just somewhere you couldgo and be really good at what
you want to do and you can beaton it as hard as you can and
progress either as fast or asefficiently as you can.
(06:39):
But while you're doing it,you're doing it with these
people and you start at the samelevel, just like boot camp.
You start at the same level andyou work your way up with each
other and people progressdifferently and they get better
in different areas and you tryand move neck and neck with them
and it creates a camaraderie,and that camaraderie is
something that a lot of peoplefrom the military miss
(07:02):
especially when they get out.
Josh Porthouse (07:03):
I think that's the biggest gap actually,
because not everybody wants tokeep carrying ammo cans or do
whatever airframes or whateverthe job was forever In fact.
A lot of people want to stopsooner.
Ross Mitchell (07:16):
Yeah.
Josh Porthouse (07:17):
Yeah, but I think that's the biggest gap.
Right, you get out and you'relike, well, maybe from two
different fronts On one hand,who I was or who I thought I was
in the noise.
Now that I don't have that sortof chaos and I see sort of that
maybe wasn't me, I don't evenknow who I am anymore, or I had
(07:40):
a pretty good handle on it.
I liked where I was, I likedwho I was, but now I don't have
the people who I was with, yeah,and now I'm by myself and I
think the interesting thing is,in both cases it still is lonely
or can be at least in some sortof transient state where you
figure it out, if you figure itout.
(08:01):
Do you think that was somethingthat helped you with, maybe,
continuity to figure it out?
You went straight from theMarine Corps to working with
what?
Us Parachute Association.
Ross Mitchell (08:13):
No, no.
After the Marine Corps I got myEMT.
When I was in the Marine CorpsI did some weekend classes at
the local community college.
I knew I wanted to be aparamedic when I got out I
wanted to continue to serve insome way and I went straight to
my community college atAllegheny County Community
College and I got my associatesof paramedicine at that
(08:37):
community college in about twoyears and then I became a
paramedic and then I workedfull-time as a paramedic while I
got my bachelor's degree fromthe University of Pittsburgh in
emergency medicine, and that'swhat I did.
What led me to skydiving was aseries of events that not only
(08:57):
in my personal life, but mainlyfrom my work life as a paramedic
, that ended up leading me toburnout life as a paramedic,
that ended up leading me toburnout.
And when it led me to burnout,which I think, I burnt out way
faster than some people do.
I don't know how they do itPeople who do it 20 years in
some of the areas I was workingin.
I look at them and I don't knowhow they do it.
But when I look at those folks,they're struggling themselves.
(09:20):
But, anyway, I had a reallygnarly call one night and this
was for me, it's always thestraw that breaks my back.
This by no means was like thegoriest call that I had and, to
be honest, it's not the gorethat bothers you.
You know, this was just a callthat kind of set me over the
edge and I just kind of lost itthat night.
(09:41):
I got sent home early from thatshift, kind of lost it that
night.
I got sent home early from thatshift and I kind of just, you
know, was a little going throughsome stuff back at the house
from the hours of 4 am all theway till 8 am and then when my
wife left for work, when shewoke up and left for work, I had
no idea what to do and I waslike I just want to feel
something and I was like, screwit.
(10:01):
I saw a video of a skydive and Ialways wanted to do it.
I watched lots of my friendsand lots of people I look up to
doing it and I went and I did itand it was at Skydive
Pennsylvania, in Grove City, pa,a little north of Pittsburgh,
and I got there and I remembergetting there and, you would
think, leading up to a jump,that you would be very nervous
(10:22):
and very like you would havejitters, and most people do, but
I felt nothing like.
I felt so numb at that point,you know, and uh, even getting
sued up and getting on the plane, nothing you know, um, but as
soon as that door opened, uh,and you feel that rush of wind
coming in and it was a smallcessna 182 with me and a guy
(10:46):
named Kush I kept calling himRalph for some reason, I don't
know why, but Kush, I wasattached to him and I get to the
door and I'm looking down andall of a sudden I'm feeling
things again and I feel fear andexcitement and I feel joy.
You know, I feel a little bitof peace at the same time,
(11:08):
because it's just so nice tofeel something you know.
So, as soon as we left thatplane man God, it was blissful.
I mean, there was no spittingfeeling in your stomach.
As soon as you left, you'reflying and it was the most
amazing feeling ever, becausenothing prepares you to do that
(11:28):
in life ever, and you're on amattress of air and you can push
against it.
Man, I was going nuts, I waslosing it.
I was so stoked the entire timeand all those feelings that I
had in those traumaticsituations, either as a medic or
(11:49):
growing up the fear, thedilated pupils, the sympathetic
nervous system response, youknow, the high blood pressure,
high heart rate all of that cameback in that moment, which was
normal for me, I felt.
That's why I think I kind offeel at peace.
I think a lot of people feel atpeace in that area, you know,
when things aren't going good,it's normal for them, and so I
(12:12):
felt all that.
But then as soon as the freefall happened, as soon as the
parachute opened up, it was justquiet.
And you're so overjoyed becauseI'm alive.
Josh Porthouse (12:24):
Oh, I bet You're like firing on every cylinder.
Ross Mitchell (12:26):
Every cylinder's going V12 engine like you're
ready to go.
You're running on JP at jetfuel, you're amped up and I just
it was so profound and I justknew I was like I'm not thinking
about anything and I didn'tknow I wasn't thinking about
anything at the time because Iobviously wasn't thinking about
it.
But when I got down I felt soinvigorated it was better than
(12:51):
any substance I've ever taken.
I did therapy for years which Istill think therapy is extremely
important, but it impacted mein more ways than therapy ever
did.
And I got down and I was like Iwant to go again, I want to go
again, but I didn't have themoney at the than therapy ever
did.
And I got down and I was like Iwant to go again, I want to go
again, you know, but I didn'thave the money at the time and I
sat there and I thought aboutit and I was like how do I do
more of this?
(13:11):
And that's kind of how itstarted, you know.
From there I started to makeplans and quit my job and, you
know, chased it full time, movedout to Utah and started chasing
it.
You know, chased it full time,moved out to Utah and started
chasing it.
All right, folks, sit tight andwe'll be right back on
Transacting Value.
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Ross Mitchell (14:00):
I sat there and I thought about it and I was like
, how do I do more of this?
And that's kind of how itstarted, you know, from there I
started to make plans and quitmy job and, you know, chased it
full time, moved out to Utah andstarted chasing it, chasing the
dream.
Josh Porthouse (14:18):
Yeah, and I mean changed everything.
Then, wow, there's a lot ofthings things, too, that we've
talked about here on the show.
For anybody who's interested,you can hear a lot of those
conversations as well, but thisis a point, I think, that's
really just been brought uprecently, similarly to what you
just described.
And let me preface this byasking you a question, two of
(14:41):
them specifically.
Do you know who Jeff Foxworthyis?
Comedian.
Ross Mitchell (14:46):
Oh, okay.
Josh Porthouse (14:46):
Have you ever heard of a show called Are you
Smarter Than a Fifth Grader?
Ross Mitchell (14:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Josh Porthouse (14:49):
The host.
Ross Mitchell (14:50):
Yeah, oh, you got to be kidding me.
Okay, yeah, okay, right, okay,now you put a name to the face,
all right.
Josh Porthouse (14:55):
All right.
So my son, as of right now, atthe time of this recording,
especially at the time of thisrecording especially, he's in
fifth grade.
I am not, as it turned out,smarter than a fifth grader.
Okay Me neither I'll tell you.
He and I had a conversation asof right now.
(15:16):
I think it was a couple weeksago, maybe a couple months ago,
I can't remember exactly but heasked me a question that I'm now
about to ask you.
Okay, you're sitting down, youfeel good?
You're sitting down, you feelgood, you're ready to try it.
Ross Mitchell (15:25):
I'm ready to go send it.
Josh Porthouse (15:29):
Okay.
What is a non-Newtonian fluid?
Yeah, that's what happened tome too what you got First guess.
Don't overthink it.
I feel like I want to have aseizure right now.
Yeah, so we were sitting theretalking about it and I have no
idea why it's named what it'snamed.
Isaac Newton, first of all.
That's as far as I got.
Okay.
A Newtonian fluid is somethingthat as more friction is applied
(15:57):
ie increased friction itbecomes more liquid or more
unstable.
Okay.
So, for example I don't knowthink like oil yeah, the more
you add friction on a surfaceand you smear oil on a desk or
(16:18):
whatever.
Or petroleum jelly, okay, itsmears and becomes more like a
liquid.
Okay, yeah.
Or your body temperature itheats up from the friction and
starts to melt, becomes morelike a liquid.
Okay, those are Newtonian fluids.
Ross Mitchell (16:34):
Okay, all right.
Josh Porthouse (16:35):
Non-Newtonian fluids are things where as you
increase friction, you increasestability.
So Okay, in regular, normaleveryday life, non-newtonian
additives are everywhere.
You know what ketchup is If youleave it just regular condiment
(16:55):
.
If you leave it out in thebottle, let's say, and it after
a while starts to separate, whathappens when you shake it.
Ross Mitchell (17:04):
It starts to come back together.
Josh Porthouse (17:05):
It becomes more stable Friction, more like a
solid as you increase friction?
Ross Mitchell (17:09):
Yeah, friction brings it together.
It's a non-Newtonian fluid,okay.
Josh Porthouse (17:12):
Jelly Anything, it's a non-Newtonian fluid.
Okay, jelly Anything, thatafter a while it sets and
separates Milk.
All the same, these arenon-Newtonian fluids.
Ross Mitchell (17:20):
Yeah.
Josh Porthouse (17:20):
Okay, so rooted in science, not physiology.
Okay, I didn't write this in ajournal.
I came up with this talking toa fifth grader.
Okay, non-newtonian fluids andservice member, first responder
(17:42):
psychographics, mindsets,perspectives are equal.
So let me put it to you likethis the more somebody gets
accustomed, naturally or throughtraining, to increased amounts
of friction, stress, chaos, youhave one of two responses.
You brought up a sympatheticresponse earlier, but you
basically have one of tworesponses Figure it out or fall
apart.
Yep, that's it.
Ross Mitchell (18:03):
I've seen both happen?
Josh Porthouse (18:03):
Yeah Well, in the increasing amounts of chaos
and conflict that comes with awar zone, you know, a fog of war
or some degree of uncertaintyor confusion, complexity,
whatever that happens there, orany other stressful environment
as a paramedic, whatever Somepeople find it more comforting
(18:24):
and easier to focus, morenatural in that environment,
more stable in that environment.
Now, what happens when youremove the chaos, you remove the
friction, you separate, you'redisjointed and you don't really
have any purpose anymore.
No stability.
And so I think thesenon-Newtonian mindsets, these
military, psychographics, lawenforcement, first responders,
(18:45):
fire services, all collectivelyfill that same category.
Do you think that people, forexample, who are looking to
skydive, learning to skydive,want to skydive, or do it
professionally or whatever, feelthat same category, or is it
more based on the adrenalinerush and the sort of addiction
(19:08):
or whatever that that causes?
Ross Mitchell (19:11):
I'd be careful for me to generalize it, as
everybody would be that way,because I've definitely met
people who have—so you saidnon-Newtonian is friction gives
stability, but for Newtonian,friction gives instability.
Essentially, individuals whocome from very good backgrounds,
(19:33):
good upbringings, haven't met alot of strife in their
upbringings and they reallycling to it.
And I think for a lot of them.
For them it just might be thethrill of the adrenaline,
something that as human beings,we're built to endure.
(19:53):
That through years and years ofevolution, we have that built
into us too.
The sympathetic nervous system,for example.
The fight or flight responseit's built in us.
Everybody has a way ofresponding to it, and you said
how people sometimes likeNewtonian, non-newtonian.
I've seen both.
I've seen people crumble andI've seen people rise to the
(20:14):
occasion on stressful occasions.
But there's a good sayingexperience is something you get
shortly after you need it.
I like that.
Yeah, it's a great saying and Ilove that.
I've seen police officersfreeze in the moment because
they're new and then I've seenthem respond very well in the
next few calls.
Josh Porthouse (20:32):
Conversely, I've also seen veterans not by
military status, but by moreexperience.
I've also seen veterans freezein certain circumstances.
Right and think about it likethis.
Here's something that'sinteresting too.
You work for, let's say, 15years, 20 years, 10 years,
whatever, however long and picka field first responder, cop,
(20:56):
fire, science service member,whatever applies right.
You work for an extended periodof time and you're one of these
types of people that thrives inchaos, and you've got some
degree of stability in thesemoments, right, for any number
of reasons.
And then you go home and yourwife asks you a question like
what do you want for dinner?
And you're like Jesus, rightnow I just need some space to
myself.
Are you really that stable?
(21:16):
Because now, what's thedifference?
There's less friction, maybe,and so, by our metaphor we
talked about earlier in fifthgrade, science, you know, maybe
it's still applicable.
But like, how adjusted are youactually?
Because I think the thresholdthere, the importance there, is,
you've got to be able to switchback and forth.
I think that malleability isthe actual important factor that
(21:42):
requires the most training, themost time and service to put in
your training hours, because Ithink that's where the detriment
is without it.
Ross Mitchell (21:51):
You know we talked about moderation.
Right and balance andmoderation might be somewhat
synonymous.
Maybe I'm sure they're notsynonyms, but they can go hand
in hand together.
What I've noticed amongst a lotof first responders is that
they don't do moderation either,and when it comes to the
(22:12):
compartmentalization side of it,they don't moderate that.
They compartmentalize andthey're good at it.
But that can be a problem too.
It's a problem because thetrunk can only get so full until
it explodes open.
I've seen this happen time andtime again, and usually it
doesn't happen where you thinkit would happen, on a bad call
(22:32):
or something like that.
It happens when you burn oil ina pan at the house in your
kitchen which happened to me,like I was noticing when I was
back home in Pittsburgh.
These little things would set meoff, and set me off in ways
that I never saw myself withthat type of anger.
It bothered me, it reminded meof my father.
Josh Porthouse (22:52):
But it is anger though.
Ross Mitchell (22:53):
It was anger, absolutely, it was 100% anger.
And what it was was mecompartmentalizing in these
situations and calls that Iwould respond to and realizing
now's not the time to get angry,now's not the time to get
stressed.
Now's not the time to get sad.
I have a job to do.
I have to tell a loved one somebad news.
I have to be professional rightnow.
(23:14):
I have to tell a loved one somebad news.
I have to be professional rightnow.
I have a guy who's a rapist andhe was shot six times and I
have to treat him.
I can't afford to look at himand say, I'm just going to let
you bleed out right now, orsomething like that.
I have to help him.
I have to put away all my—it'sa very hard thing to do to put
your—especially when you're amoral person.
Most people who go into firstresponse they want to help
(23:35):
people.
They're usually moral folks,usually, you know.
And when you put aside thosemorals for so long because you
have a job to do, where does allthat energy go?
Yeah.
It goes somewhere.
A repressed memory is still amemory in the head.
You just can't remember it, butit comes out at different
(24:01):
points in life depending on thetrigger stimulus that you
experience, you know.
So I personally, I telleverybody this, and skydivers
are guilty of this too.
You know, skydiving isinherently dangerous.
We had 10 deaths in 2023throughout the entire nation,
which is extremely low for whatit was in the 60s or 70s, and
we're very proud of that.
But I've had friends whocompartmentalize in skydiving
and you know, if someone, if oneof their good friends, gets
hurt and they have thousands ofjumps or they die, you can hear
(24:21):
it in their voice.
You can hear them say I toldhim not to do it.
You've known this guy for 12years.
Yeah, yeah, well, you know.
I'm like I know what you'redoing.
You're compartmentalizing rightnow, but then I see those guys
later on, you know, at theparking lot or something like
that, and see them breaking downbecause you know someone said
something small to them thewrong way throughout the day and
(24:44):
it was just enough.
You have to talk, you have toprocess these things, because
all that energy goes somewhereand it builds up, and it builds
up and it builds up until youexplode one day All right, folks
sit tight and we'll be rightback on Transacting Value.
Josh Porthouse (25:02):
Join us for Transacting Value, where we
discuss practical applicationsof personal values, every Monday
at 9am on our websitetransactingvaluepodcastcom,
Wednesdays at 5pm and Sundays atnoon on wreathsacrossamericaorg
slash radio.
Ross Mitchell (25:21):
You have to talk, you have to process these
things, because all that energygoes somewhere and it builds up,
and it builds up, and it buildsup, until you explode one day.
Josh Porthouse (25:32):
Well, actually it's a lot like what we were
saying earlier when we weretalking about science.
You brought it up and I'mpretty sure it was also Isaac
Newton I don't know, buddy,you'll have to tell me when we
talk later but I'm pretty sureit was also Isaac Newton where
he said everything about energy,that it's neither created nor
destroyed, it just changes form.
And so, to the same point and Ilike what you said about
compartmentalization you startputting all these emotions and
(25:54):
experiences into thesecompartments, right on an
ambulance, on a fire engine,whatever same thing in a humvee,
right, you start putting it inthese compartments.
And what does that do for youin an operation in terms of your
efficiency and action?
Raise it up absolutely, 100,absolutely, and then you put it
back where you found it andthat's where it stays and it has
a place and a name and a roleuntil it doesn't.
(26:17):
And then it has to go somewhere.
And so what happens with thegear that you don't use anymore?
It goes to the lot, somewherefor somebody else to use, to
pillage, to sell, to burn, torecycle, to whatever.
It still goes somewhere, butit's no longer fulfilling the
purpose that it did in thebeginning.
It's no longer fulfilling thepurpose that it did in the
beginning.
And I think to the point youbrought up about grief or even
(26:39):
moderation, that you can't be ona high all the time, and I
don't even mean like aheightened mental or emotional
state.
As a high I just mean, not alow.
You know what I mean.
So you can't avoid beingdepressed all the time.
Ross Mitchell (26:55):
No, it has to happen.
Yeah, in some way.
Josh Porthouse (26:59):
And I think that's why having some demon
slaying enterprise is necessary.
You have to find your Virgiland go for a walk every so often
and just deal with it.
You know you take yoursabbatical, that I don't know
(27:20):
12,000 feet to zero.
Great, do it If that's whatworks for you.
You know, if you got to gosomewhere to yell, why not do it
?
Going 180 miles an hour orwhatever it is, and and I think
those are powerful opportunities.
But I have to think when you'reat that degree of stimulation,
there's a crash.
That takes place, at least inthe beginning, if not every time
(27:43):
.
Am I far off the mark?
Ross Mitchell (27:44):
No, tomorrow when you jump, you're going to feel
it.
When you get down, you're goingto feel like you just sprinted
three miles, but you're going tolook at your wife and be like
whatever you want to do today.
Josh Porthouse (27:55):
I don't care, we'll do whatever.
Ross Mitchell (27:58):
Which is the nice part of it?
It levels you, you know.
Sure but there is a crash.
Josh Porthouse (28:02):
Yeah, so I mean it sounds like it almost force
feeds an opportunity to processthat maybe before you were
neglecting even still.
Ross Mitchell (28:12):
Yeah.
Josh Porthouse (28:12):
Right, so, okay.
So saying that then it'severything in an equal and
opposite reaction, right?
So as high as you get, is thatas low as you go, do you think,
in terms of a behavior, anemotion or cognition after a
jump, does that, do you think,have the potential to exacerbate
(28:35):
any of these compartmentalizedfeelings?
Ross Mitchell (28:38):
I think on the first.
It's when you have 500 jumps ora lot of jumps, you start to
get a little desensitized tosome things you know.
But the highs come fromdifferent types of things that
happen up there For you.
Tomorrow you're going toexperience that high, you know.
Things that happen up there Foryou.
Tomorrow you're going toexperience that high, you know.
And as far as the proportionsof it, yeah, it is the highest
(29:00):
you can possibly be right there,but it does insinuate that you
are going to have a crash.
There's been many times and youmade me think of it, but there
have been many times where I'vehad great days at the drop zone
and I drive home borderline intears because I'm mellowed out.
And now I'm thinking aboutthings and I'm happy.
But now I'm processing things alittle bit more.
(29:22):
I'm thinking about how did Iget here, what happened during
that time?
And it all led me to this spot.
Why did I respond that way?
How would I respond now?
Looking back on that, and Ithink it gives you, instead of a
90-degree sight picture, itgives you more of a 108-degree
(29:44):
or even 360-degree sight picture.
Skydiving it's not a fix, it isdefinitely a treatment.
But when you combine thesemodalities with therapy and
you're having this balance inyour life and you're able to go
to therapy and you're actuallyable to get a little bit more of
a better product out of it.
I think it overall justbenefits everything.
(30:06):
But, like you said, there needsto be a low point, there needs
to be depression.
I think today there's a largeemphasis on happiness in social
media today, yeah, and I thinkit's good.
But at the same time I think itmight give people a skewed
reality on how the human psycheworks and what should be
(30:28):
happening up there.
You're not supposed to be happy100% of the time.
You won't appreciate anything.
Josh Porthouse (30:35):
Conversely, seeing other people be happy
100% of the time.
You need to learn to appreciatesome things too, but for the
exact same reason.
Right, it goes both ways.
And so having opportunitieslike that whether it's skydiving
or whatever it is, I think is apowerful opportunity to have,
is a powerful opportunity tohave, but sort of an interesting
(30:55):
position of authority to givesomebody that degree of
ownership back.
You know so many people.
I talked to a guy a few daysago who went and had breakfast.
He retired as a registerednurse after 40 years.
That's a long time and inPennsylvania, as a matter of
fact, long time.
And in Pennsylvania, as amatter of fact, and as his sort
(31:21):
of off ramp out of his nursingcareer, he decided he was going
to go work in emergency anddisaster management to sort of
temper down the chaos.
I guess I'm not sure.
Reduce the complexityincrementally, whatever.
Ross Mitchell (31:32):
Yeah, he's titrating, he's attempting to.
Josh Porthouse (31:36):
Yeah, yeah, well so after a couple years he said
dude, this is too much.
I've been hospitalized in theER five times for stress, I'm
just done, and that was it.
And then he just retired andthat was a little while ago.
So you know, there's all sortsof things, I think, where you
try to manage that lack ofcontrol or perceived lack of
control.
But even in those environmentsit's like you said earlier, I
(31:58):
don't know how people do it for20 years Paramedic, for example,
which is arguably very similarto being in the military, or law
enforcement, or firefight, allthe above first responders that
gives you the same degree ofperspective where I remember, in
my first four years, I remembersitting there hearing people
(32:19):
that had been in for whatever 12, 15, 17, 25, some odd years all
say very similar things thatyou know I've been doing this
for so long.
I'm on my third wife and youknow whatever Good thing,
gunny's got alcohol in theoffice.
(32:40):
You know whatever, I'm justgoing to go out and shoot guns
this weekend.
You're like, dude, what are youdoing with yourself?
Ross Mitchell (32:44):
A little bit of a crude acceptance in it.
Josh Porthouse (32:47):
yeah, well it may be an attempt and maybe it
was all joking, you know.
Ross Mitchell (32:51):
I don't know, I don't.
Josh Porthouse (32:52):
I, especially at the time, didn't have like you
said, I didn't have insight intothose groups.
I just knew from the bottom ofthe hierarchy, looking up and
hearing the sound waves comedown the mountain.
That's all I knew.
So it seemed to be the reality,right?
So I didn't want that.
Then I got there and I was like, nope, this is exactly what
people are doing, this isexactly how people are talking.
(33:14):
You know, and maybe not all,maybe not most, but the ones I
came across was fairly accurateMultiple marriages, multiple
poor coping strategies andtrying to find outlets to
process those things in onemanner of effect and success or
another.
And so then getting into aposition where you are now
(33:38):
working with a nonprofitproviding a service and an
opportunity to instead takepeople this is at least how I
see it to instead take peoplefrom.
This is just how it is in thesystem.
Whatever the system is, this isjust how it is.
You just got to suck it up, youjust got to deal with it, cope
with it and process every oneLike, no, you don't, you can
(34:00):
walk in and, as maybe trivial orchildish as it seems like, you
can walk into that room andleave your bad attitude outside,
or however you want to phraseit, and go to work Like it is
still exactly what you make ofit.
You know, and I don't know thatthat's as well or widely
publicized, but you're creatingopportunities to give people
(34:20):
that ownership back.
Yeah, that's huge.
Ross Mitchell (34:23):
You can walk away .
You know, sometimes, like forme, I walked away from a job and
I listened to my gut.
Yeah, but it was an identitycrisis.
Right, I said my identity isI'm here to serve.
Yeah, and that's what I want inlife.
I was put here on this earth tomake sure that others are okay
(34:44):
and my personal entrance and mypersonal well-being is secondary
.
And this is a common perceptionamongst first responders in the
military.
You know, you're trained to bethat way.
It's why we're good at the job.
But that individual who isstruggling so much, going into
the same job every day, they'renot saying anything about it and
(35:05):
they're just like this is ituntil I retire or I die?
I'm going to get cancer youjust accept it.
You just accept it, right, youcan walk away.
It's just are you willing topart ways with an identity that
might be behind you at thispoint and you're kind of
clinging on to If you walk away?
There are other opportunitiesout there and there's a lot of
(35:27):
beautiful, amazing people outthere that are willing to help
you, which is a big reason forLeaps of Hope.
I know what it feels like tofeel horrible and that's a big
reason why one of the values Ilive by is kindness.
I try and be kind to everybodyI meet.
Now, you never know whatsomeone's going through.
You never know, you have noidea what just happened in that
(35:48):
person's day and you just beingkind to them for just a couple
seconds might make their day.
It might stop them from doingsomething drastic when they go
home or something like that.
So kindness is one of them.
It's a huge value that I reallycare about a lot and I think
the people I surround myselfwith believe that as well from
(36:08):
the friends that I have.
But with Leaps of Hope, we knowpeople are still out there
feeling like this is it and Ihave nothing left, this is all
it is for me, or they feel thatthey have nowhere to go, they
have no other options, no otheroutlets, and they feel like no
one's coming, or they feel thatthey can't reach out for help In
(36:32):
the Marine Corps.
How would it have gone if afour-time divorced gunny
alcoholic went to his leadershipand said he was depressed?
He'd be all right, go back towork.
Right, he'd be all right, goback to work, or, depending on
how vindictive the leadership is, they might try— he doesn to go
to work anymore.
Yeah, you don't have to go towork.
(36:52):
They might try and get rid ofyou, Right?
So it doesn't.
The Marine Corps doesn't donecessarily a great job of
fostering mental well-being, butleaders like you you know help
that, which is why I'm thankfulguys like you stay in.
Josh Porthouse (37:07):
Alrighty, folks sit tight and we'll be right
back on Transacting Value.
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Josh Porthouse (38:12):
Marine Corps doesn't do necessarily a great
job of fostering mentalwell-being, but leaders like you
, you know, help that, which iswhy I'm thankful guys like you
stay in Well let me also caveatthat dovetail here, whatever the
expression is right, becausegot that dovetail here, whatever
(38:32):
the expression is right,because that has been the case
and I'm also going to speculatein every branch or any military
around the world because youhave to build some sort of
intentional distancing or copingmechanism to do things that
aren't as natural and sometimesinhumane, like shoot somebody,
right.
But to that point I thinkthere's also, like you were
talking about, a degree ofownership that you can foster
(38:54):
with just a little bit ofkindness.
You know you walk digging afighting hole right Like a six
foot deep hole, for example,that you stand in and well,
that's about it, you stand in it, and so to have somebody walk
up and down this line of holesas you're digging, it gives you
a little bit of hope and purposewhen somebody who's not digging
(39:16):
, like the commander or whoever,walks up and says you doing
okay.
Mm-hmm.
I didn't actually know anybodycared.
No, not at all.
I really don't want to do this.
I'm tired and I'm really hungry.
Thanks for asking, sir.
Ross Mitchell (39:30):
Grant, no one's ever checked on me when I've
been digging a fighting hole.
Josh Porthouse (39:34):
I wish they would have.
But maybe it's hypotheticalthen for some people.
But to have those kinds ofopportunities and conversations
where everybody knows nobodyhere is having a good time that
you still extend some sort of ahand not a handout, but a hand
it can make all the difference.
You know, and the irony here,with all of this, you said your
(39:55):
identity changed.
I don't know that it has reallythat much.
I mean, you're still, it soundslike in a position where you're
helping other people heal andputting you second.
It's just the application ofthat skill set is now
(40:16):
drastically different than in anambulance, for example.
So you know, there's got to be,I think, a little bit of
comfort in that kind ofcontinuity.
You know, because I don't wantto make it sound futile as an
effort, but to be able to be ina position where you can
(40:39):
reinvent the application of yourstrengths without losing sight
of who you are, as long as youhave awareness of what those
strengths happen to be you knowyou.
You know your character.
You mentioned your valuesystems.
This is a good point, I supposein the conversation called
developing character D-D-DDeveloping character.
So for anybody who's new to theshow Ross, obviously you
(41:02):
included.
It's two questions.
Entirely up to you how in-depthyou want to answer it.
But here's the reason.
I have a working theory thatvalues are a shortcut to
identity and grounding anddeepening relationships and they
become that sort of continuityfor our decisions in application
.
And so not all of what youaccomplished is because you were
(41:27):
taught or because you chased it.
I have to believe some of itwas just natural and you grew up
around these types of values orcharacter or something about it
.
So my two questions are one,what were some of the values you
were raised on or that youremember growing up around?
And two, after all yourexperiences now to this point,
(41:47):
what then are some of yourvalues now?
Ross Mitchell (41:49):
experiences now to this point.
What, then, are some of yourvalues now?
Growing up with the environmentthat I was in, there was a lot
of turmoil.
My father had to play a lot ofroles.
He was a phenomenal provider.
He went to work every day,sometimes seven days a week.
Blue collar job, working forthe city any job he could find
just to put food on the table.
(42:10):
Seven days a week blue collarjob, working for the city any
job he could find just to putfood on the table.
He was a recovering addict andhe was.
He came from a generation um,and, knowing his father and how
he was raised, uh, he was raisedvery disciplinary, very
authoritarian, um, and that'sjust the only way he knew how to
parent and he was under a lotof stress.
My mom was using um all the wayup until I was about 11 or 12
(42:30):
years old which are performativeyears for any child and she was
constantly in and out all thetime.
When she was around, she wasgreat, very loving, just very
happy to be there and just havea moment of peace with her kids.
Just very happy to be there andjust have a moment of peace
with our kids.
But when she was gone and shewas struggling with her
(42:52):
addiction.
It was me and my sister.
For the most part, my sisterwatched me.
Sometimes we didn't have ababysitter, sometimes we did.
She's older, she's a littleolder.
She was born in 91.
I was born in 95.
Okay, we're a little close, butmy father had a lot of stress
under him and I actually talkedwith him about this years ago
(43:14):
and he contemplated leavingmultiple times and I appreciate
that he didn't, you know, but hewas going to take care of us.
So he never gave up.
Like I really appreciate thatabout my father.
He never gave up, but he Ireally appreciate that about my
(43:35):
father he never gave up and uh,but he had a temper on him and
growing up with the lack ofattention that I was getting, I
found any way that I couldn'tget attention.
The biggest thing was makingyou smile.
Well, if I can make you laugh,no matter how that didn't, no
matter how I did good or badusually bad that meant some
approval for me.
It meant like oh, oh, like avalidation, like a validation
(43:56):
Interesting, like, oh, I'm intheir good graces right now.
You know, like, oh, maybethey're going to stick around,
you know, because I was alwaysused to the person I always
wanted around leaving, you know,but my father, when he was with
me, he became very distrustingof the people around him, even
(44:19):
family, really Very distrusting,because he couldn't trust the
people closest to him.
A lot of the time, you know, hewas in a very bad position and
with me acting out and megetting in trouble, I think I
set the record for mostdetentions in first grade or
something like that.
But I was constantly inin-school suspension.
I was constantly getting introuble.
I think I set the record formost detentions in first grade
or something like that.
But I was constantly in schoolsuspension.
I was constantly getting intofights.
(44:39):
I'm sure that didn't help.
It did not help and he onlyknew one way to discipline and
he did it, you know, and I wasusually the receiving end of
that all the time.
So I caught beatings Uh, theywere not spankings, you know,
they were beatings and I Iremember going to school in my
head with throb for days, youknow.
(45:01):
So, um, I didn't reallyunderstand boundaries growing up
.
I didn't understand how tospeak for myself.
I was labeled as a bad kid, youknow, even from some other
family members, just becausethey thought I was humorous at
the time, you know.
And they're just like ah, youknow, but for a kid, you know,
(45:23):
that sticks, it sticks in yourhead.
So I had very low self-esteem,very low confidence, and I
constantly was just trying toget approval and that follows me
all the way into adulthood.
Even now I know when it'shappening now and I try and take
a step back when I know it'shappening, especially with
(45:43):
friends and whatnot, like no,let's hold your friend
accountable right now.
You don't have to tell themwhat they want to hear.
You need to tell them what theyneed to hear right now.
So that's helped me a lot.
But growing up it caused a lotof issues.
So I really, when I look at mychildhood and I was telling you
like I have a hard time eventoday processing some of the
(46:03):
things that happen.
So I'm still learning as I go.
I'm only 29.
This stuff didn't happen thatlong ago, um and uh.
I think what I got mainly fromfrom growing up was uh, never
give up on on a, on a dream oran idea that you have Cause.
My father's dream was to havehis wife by his side all the
(46:27):
time and for her to be doingwell and for her to do well so
she can do well for us.
And I think that's maybe one ofthe values that I got from him
was don't give up, and if youkeep on working, if you keep
doing it, something good willhappen.
Maybe my mom won't come back,but maybe his kids might do
(46:50):
something good in the future.
Something like that.
You know, with the good thingsthat happen might not always be
what your exact idea is in yourhead, but I am not regretful of
what happened growing up.
Um, that lot did happen, uh,but uh, I'm happy that it all
happened, because it's thereason why I am today.
(47:13):
I always say if you've trulyever felt bad in your life, you
never want anybody else to feelthat way.
If you know what that feelslike like really know what it
feels like unless you're asociopath you don't want people
to feel that way.
Yeah, it's horrible.
I remember I did a veteransretreat to Colorado one time.
We were summiting this mountain.
It's horrible.
I remember I did a.
I did a veterans retreat toColorado One time.
We were summiting this mountain.
It sucked Like I mean, it waseight hours of high altitude
(47:37):
headaches and high altitudesickness and we sat down right
before the peak and we talkedabout stuff and they were in a
very vulnerable like you'retired, you're saying whatever
you want.
It was the things I was talkingabout were hurting so much.
I would have much rather wentup that mountain and went back
to the pain.
Yeah, so it says something thathow strong can your emotions be
(48:00):
that you would much ratherprefer severe physical pain
rather than deal with youremotions.
It shows that they're prettypowerful in the end.
So everything that happenedwhen I was a kid, I'm not then
deal with your emotions.
It shows that they're prettypowerful in the end.
So everything that happenedwhen I was a kid I'm not angry
about anymore.
I just know that they turned meinto who I am today.
But the values that I got frommy father was he gave me a lot,
(48:24):
even though I was pretty hard onhim for a little bit.
Josh Porthouse (48:30):
Well, it goes both ways in time.
It's interesting and this isreally one of the last points I
guess I'll bring up for the sakeof time, but it's interesting.
You spend so long at least in mycase, I spent so long feeling
like I was running further andfurther away from the people I
didn't want to become which,when I was younger, were
basically my parents that I hadkicked up so much dust and so
(48:53):
much dirt and just running thatI didn't realize it was a
circular track, good way ofputting it and eventually I
think, I started to resent someof that, and maybe to a degree I
still do.
Like you said, you figure it outas you grow.
But in that I also started toappreciate then what was
happening or what had happenedgrowing up, just in a light that
(49:16):
I wasn't necessarily familiarwith.
So you're certainly not alonein that assessment.
And it's interesting the amountof opportunities you have or
that you can create to talk topeople about it.
And so I guess, speaking ofopportunities and probably my
last question for the sake oftime here but as far as Leaps of
Hope is concerned, for anybodythat's interested in that
experience wants to find outmore about that experience, or
(49:38):
even skydiving in general, whatit can do for them as a therapy,
as an outlet, as just anopportunity to live a different
level of life where do people go?
Ross Mitchell (49:47):
So right now we're in the founding phases of
it.
Everything's in with the lawyer.
We have the process going withthe IRS, which is the longest
part, but we're paid up andwe're ready to go.
We're going to be building awebsite here very soon.
We're in the project managementphase with one of my board
members and, as of right now, wejust have social media.
(50:10):
My board members and, as ofright now, we just have social
media.
So the biggest part with thiswith the nonprofit as novice as
I am at this is exposure.
Right, I need people to knowwhat this is well before we even
get up and going Absolutelyyeah, exactly.
So exposure and marketing.
So we have Instagram, we haveFacebook right now, keeping it
(50:31):
simple, instagram is phenomenal,but on Instagram we're called
Leaps of Hope, all one thing, nounderscores or anything like
that, just Leaps of Hope.
And then my personal Instagramis here for the thrills, thrills
, with a Z at the end instead ofan S.
Classy, exactly, yeah, wordsspelling.
But people can reach out to methrough either outlet.
(50:59):
Okay, and it's, it's going to.
It's it's.
I read every message I get andI have a lot of people who want
to be candidates, who want tocome in and do this, but
reaching out to me on socialmedia right now is going to be
the best way and I uploadeverything to that.
Josh Porthouse (51:10):
To Instagram or.
Both.
Ross Mitchell (51:12):
To Instagram and Facebook.
I upload everything to that andthat's how everyone stays aware
and up to date with all theinfo and what we're doing.
Sweet, we have a lot of peoplewho want to back it.
So Black Rifle Coffee a few oftheir representatives there,
(51:33):
like Dean and Edwin, haveexpressed interest in wanting to
back it and sponsor it.
Having conversations withShields Going to be having a
conversation with Red Bull ifeverything works out and a lot
of canopy companies, a lot ofsmall, veteran-owned businesses.
They all understand you, get it.
You know what.
I mean, anyone who's been theregets it.
So we have a lot of people whowant to get behind this, which
(51:55):
is overwhelming, I feel like wayover my head.
But I'm going to figure it out.
I am unequivocally determinedto get this done and I will get
it done.
It's the one thing that I wantto leave behind, if something
were to ever happen to me, isthis right here, and we have a
board of military, formermilitary and all skydivers with
(52:16):
a vast background, some vastcorporate backgrounds, special
operations backgrounds, somestill active, still in um,
female, male, uh, a lot ofdifferent perspectives on the
board.
But essentially what we're goingto try and do is we're going to
take people in tandems at firstand then whoever expresses
(52:36):
interest or whoever really showsa want to keep going in the
sport, we'll fly them out, we'llhouse them, we're going to put
them in the wind tunnel and getthem trained up so that when
they go to Accelerated Free FallSchool AFF, they're successful
and they, they can, they canprogress um, pay for their aff,
(52:57):
pay for their license, give themgear I'm hoping to get them
parachutes, get them everythingto get them into the sport entry
level and then give them inthat community that's you know
we were saying earlier the guysout there who are struggling,
our organization and many otherslike it.
Like we will find you and wewill help you out.
(53:19):
We'll give you something Sweet.
You know, even if you don'tlike skydiving after you get
done with it, you still got it.
You know it might lead you onto better things.
Josh Porthouse (53:28):
Well, like you said, the amount of clarity
after the fact may be just thehook or the trigger that you
need to start moving into adirection that suits you better.
Ross Mitchell (53:36):
Yeah.
Josh Porthouse (53:36):
Yeah, tough call , man, but I appreciate the
opportunity to sit here and talk, to cover this, to talk about
leaps of hope, to talk aboutjust reconciling how you come
across to yourself as yourself,to other people in relationships
, the catalyst for that to beable to do it effectively.
It's such a powerfulopportunity.
(53:58):
Whether or not you realize it,man, you're effectively with the
rest of us, digitizing Americanmilitary subculture and it's
not showcased anywhere else.
And it's not showcased anywhereelse and any more than, like
you know, invest in gold, jointhis organization, don't forget
to get your hearing aids andfile for TRICARE and, you know,
(54:19):
education benefits and all thosethings are cool, but we're way
more than our trauma and theseconversations show that.
Ross Mitchell (54:30):
Yeah.
Josh Porthouse (54:31):
Yeah, so I appreciate it, man.
Ross Mitchell (54:32):
No, thank you for having me Super cool.
Josh Porthouse (54:33):
This was great to talk.
Super cool and theseconversations show that.
Ross Mitchell (54:35):
Yeah, so I appreciate it, man.
No, thank you for having meSuper cool.
This was great to talk Supercool.
Finally, all this stuff issuper hard for me to even say
just because I've been around somany people who had so much
worse, but it's all relative.
Absolutely, in the end, it's allrelative.
We all have the same feelingsand sitting here and talking
with you, even if we weren'ttalking about this, I'm just
grateful to be around you again,man, I missed you.
Oh, that's cool, missed you alot.
I appreciate that.
(54:55):
Yeah, I appreciate that, thankyou for having me.
Josh Porthouse (54:56):
Yeah, definitely .
And to everybody who'sobviously tuned in to listen to
this conversation or to watch ithere on YouTube, a couple
points for you guys.
One conversation on you canclick see more.
You can click show more, and inthe drop down description for
this conversation, you'll beable to see links to Leaps of
Hope on Instagram and Facebook.
Once your website comes up, letme know, shoot me a text or an
(55:18):
email.
We'll add it in as well, forright now, social media is where
you're going to find it.
Now, saying that.
The other thing I'll leave youwith If you like this
conversation or not and you wantto hear more of our
conversations If you like thisconversation or not and you want
to hear more of ourconversations, go to our website
TransactingValuePodcastcom.
When you get to the homepage,here's a really cool opportunity
we have for everybody.
(55:38):
In the top right-hand corner,there's a button that says Leave
a Voicemail.
Do it.
It's two minutes of talk time.
It's all yours, yeah, andyou'll be able to do and say
anything you want.
Here's my recommendation forwhat you can do with it.
One tell us what you think aboutthe show, my style, my
questions, the topics, theinsight, the ideas, how will you
(55:59):
understand what we're trying toget across?
Give us some feedback and letus know the production value.
Relay to my team how good of ajob you think they're doing and
I'll ensure that they get yourmessage.
But secondly, tell Ross whatyou think about the conversation
.
Give him some feedback, becausewe're all growing through life
together, separately and whatyou think about Leaps of Hope as
an idea, as an outlet, as anopportunity, and then they can
(56:22):
better build out that nonprofit,their strategic partners, the
opportunities and the benefitsto anybody for potential
therapies or anything else theycan do with it.
That's what makes this processpossible the feedback.
So take the opportunity.
I appreciate you letting meshare this one and maybe even
(56:42):
your drive home with you.
But for right now and untilnext time, that was Transacting
Value.
Thank you to our show partnersand folks.
Thank you for tuning in andappreciating our value as we all
grow through life together.
To check out our otherconversations or even to
contribute through feedbackfollows, time, money or talent
and to let us know what youthink of the show, please leave
a review on our website,transactingvaluepodcastcom.
(57:05):
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(57:25):
Slash transactingvalue tosponsor a wreath and remember,
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On behalf of our team and ourglobal ambassadors, as you all
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(57:46):
your posterity, we will continueinstigating self-worth and
we'll meet you there Until nexttime.
That was Transacting Value.
The views expressed in this podcast are
solely those of the podcast hostand guest and do not
necessarily represent those ofour distribution partners,
supporting businessrelationships or supported
audience.
Welcome to Transacting Value,where we talk about practical
(00:22):
applications for instigatingself-worth when dealing with
each other and even withinourselves, where we foster a
podcast listening experiencethat lets you hear the power of
a value system for managingburnout, establishing boundaries
, fostering community andfinding identity.
My name is Josh Porthouse, I'myour host and we are redefining
sovereignty of character.
(00:42):
This is why values still holdvalue.
This is Transacting Value.
Ross Mitchell (00:49):
You can walk away .
It's just are you willing topart ways with an identity that
might be behind you at thispoint and you're kind of
clinging on to?
If you walk away, there areother opportunities out there.
Josh Porthouse (01:05):
Today on Transacting Value.
Who are you and how do you comeacross to people?
How well does it match up toyour expectations?
More importantly, and sometimesmost importantly, how accurate
is it?
Today's conversation we'retalking to the president of
Leaps of Hope, a nonprofit outof Utah.
All about his experiences, whatthat means and what he's done
(01:25):
about it.
I'm Josh Porthouse, I'm yourhost and from SDYT Media, this
is Transacting Value, ross.
What's up, man?
Ross Mitchell (01:34):
How are you doing , brother?
Josh Porthouse (01:35):
I'm good.
I'm good, I'm glad you made itout.
It's been, I think, a long timecoming now, give or take a
couple of years.
Maybe we've been talking aboutthis potentially.
Oh yeah, yeah.
So I appreciate the opportunity, I appreciate you flying out
here and making the trip, butthere's a lot of stuff I think
we need to catch up on.
Uh, the complexity here is thatnobody else knows who you are,
(01:57):
and so I've got a little bit ofan upper hand.
So let's just set the stagefrom the beginning, build a
little bit of resonance foreverybody watching or listening.
All right, so just take thenext couple minutes.
Man, who are you?
All right, where are you from?
Where do you live now?
What sort of things are shapingyour perspective on the world?
Ross Mitchell (02:13):
One thank you for having me.
It's really awesome to be hereand Florida's awesome.
I kind of don't want to go backto Utah, but don't tell my
friends that I'm sure they'llsee it.
But my name is Ross Mitchell.
I'm 29 years old.
I'm from Pittsburgh,pennsylvania, born and raised,
and I live out in Utah now whereI own a business.
We are starting a nonprofit andI am a full-time skydiver at
(02:37):
Skydive Utah.
Josh Porthouse (02:38):
Sweet Now.
Is that a statewide orstate-run program?
Skydive Utah.
Ross Mitchell (02:42):
No, skydive Utah is a small drop zone, like many
of them are throughout theUnited States.
It's a United States ParachuteAssociation accredited drop zone
out in a little valley calledTuella, utah.
It's about 30 minutes west ofSalt Lake City.
Oh, okay, there's three drops.
There's multiple drop zonesSkydive Moab and Moab.
Skydive Ogden a little north ofSalt Lake.
(03:04):
It's got to have the Wasatch alittle south of Salt Lake.
We're a bunch of drop zones allover the country, yeah.
Josh Porthouse (03:09):
And when you say drop zone, these are just what
airfields.
Ross Mitchell (03:12):
Yeah, anywhere you drop your body and you want
to land in that zone.
That's where you're at.
Yeah.
Josh Porthouse (03:19):
Okay, all right, so it.
You're saying that, though,because I think a lot of that
metaphor stands pretty similarlyright when you run into these
positions, like, for example,for anybody who's new to the
show, ross and I were actuallyin the Marine Corps together a
while ago I think it was six,five, six some years ago.
Ross Mitchell (03:36):
Eight years ago, sure Eight years ago.
Josh Porthouse (03:40):
Okay, all right, and there's a lot of things I
think that happened then, likein our case in Marine Corps
infantry, but there's a lot ofthings that happened then that
wouldn't happen at, like, youknow, your local JCPenney or Boy
Scout troop or you knowwhatever Any other group
(04:07):
programs and obviously the roleyou're filling.
But I imagine skydivers aresuch a uniquely tight-knit group
it's got to be pretty close.
Ross Mitchell (04:11):
You know, in the Marine Corps we used to say
there's no one else that willgive their life for you, but
then steal your pack ofcigarettes from you when you're
not looking.
Skydivers are very similar inthat way.
Um, sky skydivers are a uh, aroughneck crew of band of
misfits that all kind of youknow merge onto this island we
(04:33):
call a drop zone and they gettogether and they bond through
the sport of skydiving andthere's a lot of similarities
between what we do in thejumping uh area and in
comparison to the marine corps,if we're getting ready to go on
a mission or training, so on, soforth, which was a big lure for
(04:53):
me.
Josh Porthouse (04:54):
But skydivers do get very close, for for a
plethora of reasons you knowwell, what do you think is the
appeal then to that mindset,that psychographic, that kind of
environment for you when itcomes to working with other
people or small teams, or abusiness.
Ross Mitchell (05:12):
One thing that I've noticed about skydivers and
I've noticed this in the MarineCorps too, especially the
infantry is we do not domoderation right.
We cannot do three things at 33%.
We have to do one thing at 120.
If we find one thing, we haveto suck ourselves into it, learn
everything about it and do itas best as we can, and at mass.
(05:32):
That is most skydivers, right?
They don't do moderation, theylove stimulation, right?
And I've learned that there'sreasons for that the more you
get to talk to these folks.
They all come from differentwalks of life and they all have
had a lot of challenges thatthey've faced.
It's all relative.
Not everyone's trauma is thesame as the other, but more
(05:53):
often than not I've seen that alot of skydivers come from some
type of turmoil in life and thenyou go to a drop zone and you
go do this thing in their firsttandem.
It makes you feel so awesomeafterwards.
You feel so stoked and sopowered.
You're like man, I just didthat.
What's it all about?
And then you start to get toknow these people and you
(06:16):
realize, wow, all these folksare just as weird as me and I
can kind of let my barriers downand just be myself a little bit
.
And that was the allure for me.
It was just somewhere you couldgo and be really good at what
you want to do and you can beaton it as hard as you can and
progress either as fast or asefficiently as you can.
(06:39):
But while you're doing it,you're doing it with these
people and you start at the samelevel, just like boot camp.
You start at the same level andyou work your way up with each
other and people progressdifferently and they get better
in different areas and you tryand move neck and neck with them
and it creates a camaraderie,and that camaraderie is
something that a lot of peoplefrom the military miss
(07:02):
especially when they get out.
Josh Porthouse (07:03):
I think that's the biggest gap actually,
because not everybody wants tokeep carrying ammo cans or do
whatever airframes or whateverthe job was forever In fact.
A lot of people want to stopsooner.
Ross Mitchell (07:16):
Yeah.
Josh Porthouse (07:17):
Yeah, but I think that's the biggest gap.
Right, you get out and you'relike, well, maybe from two
different fronts On one hand,who I was or who I thought I was
in the noise.
Now that I don't have that sortof chaos and I see sort of that
maybe wasn't me, I don't evenknow who I am anymore, or I had
(07:40):
a pretty good handle on it.
I liked where I was, I likedwho I was, but now I don't have
the people who I was with, yeah,and now I'm by myself and I
think the interesting thing is,in both cases it still is lonely
or can be at least in some sortof transient state where you
figure it out, if you figure itout.
(08:01):
Do you think that was somethingthat helped you with, maybe,
continuity to figure it out?
You went straight from theMarine Corps to working with
what?
Us Parachute Association.
Ross Mitchell (08:13):
No, no.
After the Marine Corps I got myEMT.
When I was in the Marine CorpsI did some weekend classes at
the local community college.
I knew I wanted to be aparamedic when I got out I
wanted to continue to serve insome way and I went straight to
my community college atAllegheny County Community
College and I got my associatesof paramedicine at that
(08:37):
community college in about twoyears and then I became a
paramedic and then I workedfull-time as a paramedic while I
got my bachelor's degree fromthe University of Pittsburgh in
emergency medicine, and that'swhat I did.
What led me to skydiving was aseries of events that not only
(08:57):
in my personal life, but mainlyfrom my work life as a paramedic
, that ended up leading me toburnout life as a paramedic,
that ended up leading me toburnout.
And when it led me to burnout,which I think, I burnt out way
faster than some people do.
I don't know how they do itPeople who do it 20 years in
some of the areas I was workingin.
I look at them and I don't knowhow they do it.
But when I look at those folks,they're struggling themselves.
(09:20):
But, anyway, I had a reallygnarly call one night and this
was for me, it's always thestraw that breaks my back.
This by no means was like thegoriest call that I had and, to
be honest, it's not the gorethat bothers you.
You know, this was just a callthat kind of set me over the
edge and I just kind of lost itthat night.
(09:41):
I got sent home early from thatshift, kind of lost it that
night.
I got sent home early from thatshift and I kind of just, you
know, was a little going throughsome stuff back at the house
from the hours of 4 am all theway till 8 am and then when my
wife left for work, when shewoke up and left for work, I had
no idea what to do and I waslike I just want to feel
something and I was like, screwit.
(10:01):
I saw a video of a skydive and Ialways wanted to do it.
I watched lots of my friendsand lots of people I look up to
doing it and I went and I did itand it was at Skydive
Pennsylvania, in Grove City, pa,a little north of Pittsburgh,
and I got there and I remembergetting there and, you would
think, leading up to a jump,that you would be very nervous
(10:22):
and very like you would havejitters, and most people do, but
I felt nothing like.
I felt so numb at that point,you know, and uh, even getting
sued up and getting on the plane, nothing you know, um, but as
soon as that door opened, uh,and you feel that rush of wind
coming in and it was a smallcessna 182 with me and a guy
(10:46):
named Kush I kept calling himRalph for some reason, I don't
know why, but Kush, I wasattached to him and I get to the
door and I'm looking down andall of a sudden I'm feeling
things again and I feel fear andexcitement and I feel joy.
You know, I feel a little bitof peace at the same time,
(11:08):
because it's just so nice tofeel something you know.
So, as soon as we left thatplane man God, it was blissful.
I mean, there was no spittingfeeling in your stomach.
As soon as you left, you'reflying and it was the most
amazing feeling ever, becausenothing prepares you to do that
(11:28):
in life ever, and you're on amattress of air and you can push
against it.
Man, I was going nuts, I waslosing it.
I was so stoked the entire timeand all those feelings that I
had in those traumaticsituations, either as a medic or
(11:49):
growing up the fear, thedilated pupils, the sympathetic
nervous system response, youknow, the high blood pressure,
high heart rate all of that cameback in that moment, which was
normal for me, I felt.
That's why I think I kind offeel at peace.
I think a lot of people feel atpeace in that area, you know,
when things aren't going good,it's normal for them, and so I
(12:12):
felt all that.
But then as soon as the freefall happened, as soon as the
parachute opened up, it was justquiet.
And you're so overjoyed becauseI'm alive.
Josh Porthouse (12:24):
Oh, I bet You're like firing on every cylinder.
Ross Mitchell (12:26):
Every cylinder's going V12 engine like you're
ready to go.
You're running on JP at jetfuel, you're amped up and I just
it was so profound and I justknew I was like I'm not thinking
about anything and I didn'tknow I wasn't thinking about
anything at the time because Iobviously wasn't thinking about
it.
But when I got down I felt soinvigorated it was better than
(12:51):
any substance I've ever taken.
I did therapy for years which Istill think therapy is extremely
important, but it impacted mein more ways than therapy ever
did.
And I got down and I was like Iwant to go again, I want to go
again, but I didn't have themoney at the than therapy ever
did.
And I got down and I was like Iwant to go again, I want to go
again, you know, but I didn'thave the money at the time and I
sat there and I thought aboutit and I was like how do I do
more of this?
(13:11):
And that's kind of how itstarted, you know.
From there I started to makeplans and quit my job and, you
know, chased it full time, movedout to Utah and started chasing
it.
You know, chased it full time,moved out to Utah and started
chasing it.
All right, folks, sit tight andwe'll be right back on
Transacting Value.
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Ross Mitchell (14:00):
I sat there and I thought about it and I was like
, how do I do more of this?
And that's kind of how itstarted, you know, from there I
started to make plans and quitmy job and, you know, chased it
full time, moved out to Utah andstarted chasing it, chasing the
dream.
Josh Porthouse (14:18):
Yeah, and I mean changed everything.
Then, wow, there's a lot ofthings things, too, that we've
talked about here on the show.
For anybody who's interested,you can hear a lot of those
conversations as well, but thisis a point, I think, that's
really just been brought uprecently, similarly to what you
just described.
And let me preface this byasking you a question, two of
(14:41):
them specifically.
Do you know who Jeff Foxworthyis?
Comedian.
Ross Mitchell (14:46):
Oh, okay.
Josh Porthouse (14:46):
Have you ever heard of a show called Are you
Smarter Than a Fifth Grader?
Ross Mitchell (14:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Josh Porthouse (14:49):
The host.
Ross Mitchell (14:50):
Yeah, oh, you got to be kidding me.
Okay, yeah, okay, right, okay,now you put a name to the face,
all right.
Josh Porthouse (14:55):
All right.
So my son, as of right now, atthe time of this recording,
especially at the time of thisrecording especially, he's in
fifth grade.
I am not, as it turned out,smarter than a fifth grader.
Okay Me neither I'll tell you.
He and I had a conversation asof right now.
(15:16):
I think it was a couple weeksago, maybe a couple months ago,
I can't remember exactly but heasked me a question that I'm now
about to ask you.
Okay, you're sitting down, youfeel good?
You're sitting down, you feelgood, you're ready to try it.
Ross Mitchell (15:25):
I'm ready to go send it.
Josh Porthouse (15:29):
Okay.
What is a non-Newtonian fluid?
Yeah, that's what happened tome too what you got First guess.
Don't overthink it.
I feel like I want to have aseizure right now.
Yeah, so we were sitting theretalking about it and I have no
idea why it's named what it'snamed.
Isaac Newton, first of all.
That's as far as I got.
Okay.
A Newtonian fluid is somethingthat as more friction is applied
(15:57):
ie increased friction itbecomes more liquid or more
unstable.
Okay.
So, for example I don't knowthink like oil yeah, the more
you add friction on a surfaceand you smear oil on a desk or
(16:18):
whatever.
Or petroleum jelly, okay, itsmears and becomes more like a
liquid.
Okay, yeah.
Or your body temperature itheats up from the friction and
starts to melt, becomes morelike a liquid.
Okay, those are Newtonian fluids.
Ross Mitchell (16:34):
Okay, all right.
Josh Porthouse (16:35):
Non-Newtonian fluids are things where as you
increase friction, you increasestability.
So Okay, in regular, normaleveryday life, non-newtonian
additives are everywhere.
You know what ketchup is If youleave it just regular condiment
(16:55):
.
If you leave it out in thebottle, let's say, and it after
a while starts to separate, whathappens when you shake it.
Ross Mitchell (17:04):
It starts to come back together.
Josh Porthouse (17:05):
It becomes more stable Friction, more like a
solid as you increase friction?
Ross Mitchell (17:09):
Yeah, friction brings it together.
It's a non-Newtonian fluid,okay.
Josh Porthouse (17:12):
Jelly Anything, it's a non-Newtonian fluid.
Okay, jelly Anything, thatafter a while it sets and
separates Milk.
All the same, these arenon-Newtonian fluids.
Ross Mitchell (17:20):
Yeah.
Josh Porthouse (17:20):
Okay, so rooted in science, not physiology.
Okay, I didn't write this in ajournal.
I came up with this talking toa fifth grader.
Okay, non-newtonian fluids andservice member, first responder
(17:42):
psychographics, mindsets,perspectives are equal.
So let me put it to you likethis the more somebody gets
accustomed, naturally or throughtraining, to increased amounts
of friction, stress, chaos, youhave one of two responses.
You brought up a sympatheticresponse earlier, but you
basically have one of tworesponses Figure it out or fall
apart.
Yep, that's it.
Ross Mitchell (18:03):
I've seen both happen?
Josh Porthouse (18:03):
Yeah Well, in the increasing amounts of chaos
and conflict that comes with awar zone, you know, a fog of war
or some degree of uncertaintyor confusion, complexity,
whatever that happens there, orany other stressful environment
as a paramedic, whatever Somepeople find it more comforting
(18:24):
and easier to focus, morenatural in that environment,
more stable in that environment.
Now, what happens when youremove the chaos, you remove the
friction, you separate, you'redisjointed and you don't really
have any purpose anymore.
No stability.
And so I think thesenon-Newtonian mindsets, these
military, psychographics, lawenforcement, first responders,
(18:45):
fire services, all collectivelyfill that same category.
Do you think that people, forexample, who are looking to
skydive, learning to skydive,want to skydive, or do it
professionally or whatever, feelthat same category, or is it
more based on the adrenalinerush and the sort of addiction
(19:08):
or whatever that that causes?
Ross Mitchell (19:11):
I'd be careful for me to generalize it, as
everybody would be that way,because I've definitely met
people who have—so you saidnon-Newtonian is friction gives
stability, but for Newtonian,friction gives instability.
Essentially, individuals whocome from very good backgrounds,
(19:33):
good upbringings, haven't met alot of strife in their
upbringings and they reallycling to it.
And I think for a lot of them.
For them it just might be thethrill of the adrenaline,
something that as human beings,we're built to endure.
(19:53):
That through years and years ofevolution, we have that built
into us too.
The sympathetic nervous system,for example.
The fight or flight responseit's built in us.
Everybody has a way ofresponding to it, and you said
how people sometimes likeNewtonian, non-newtonian.
I've seen both.
I've seen people crumble andI've seen people rise to the
(20:14):
occasion on stressful occasions.
But there's a good sayingexperience is something you get
shortly after you need it.
I like that.
Yeah, it's a great saying and Ilove that.
I've seen police officersfreeze in the moment because
they're new and then I've seenthem respond very well in the
next few calls.
Josh Porthouse (20:32):
Conversely, I've also seen veterans not by
military status, but by moreexperience.
I've also seen veterans freezein certain circumstances.
Right and think about it likethis.
Here's something that'sinteresting too.
You work for, let's say, 15years, 20 years, 10 years,
whatever, however long and picka field first responder, cop,
(20:56):
fire, science service member,whatever applies right.
You work for an extended periodof time and you're one of these
types of people that thrives inchaos, and you've got some
degree of stability in thesemoments, right, for any number
of reasons.
And then you go home and yourwife asks you a question like
what do you want for dinner?
And you're like Jesus, rightnow I just need some space to
myself.
Are you really that stable?
(21:16):
Because now, what's thedifference?
There's less friction, maybe,and so, by our metaphor we
talked about earlier in fifthgrade, science, you know, maybe
it's still applicable.
But like, how adjusted are youactually?
Because I think the thresholdthere, the importance there, is,
you've got to be able to switchback and forth.
I think that malleability isthe actual important factor that
(21:42):
requires the most training, themost time and service to put in
your training hours, because Ithink that's where the detriment
is without it.
Ross Mitchell (21:51):
You know we talked about moderation.
Right and balance andmoderation might be somewhat
synonymous.
Maybe I'm sure they're notsynonyms, but they can go hand
in hand together.
What I've noticed amongst a lotof first responders is that
they don't do moderation either,and when it comes to the
(22:12):
compartmentalization side of it,they don't moderate that.
They compartmentalize andthey're good at it.
But that can be a problem too.
It's a problem because thetrunk can only get so full until
it explodes open.
I've seen this happen time andtime again, and usually it
doesn't happen where you thinkit would happen, on a bad call
(22:32):
or something like that.
It happens when you burn oil ina pan at the house in your
kitchen which happened to me,like I was noticing when I was
back home in Pittsburgh.
These little things would set meoff, and set me off in ways
that I never saw myself withthat type of anger.
It bothered me, it reminded meof my father.
Josh Porthouse (22:52):
But it is anger though.
Ross Mitchell (22:53):
It was anger, absolutely, it was 100% anger.
And what it was was mecompartmentalizing in these
situations and calls that Iwould respond to and realizing
now's not the time to get angry,now's not the time to get
stressed.
Now's not the time to get sad.
I have a job to do.
I have to tell a loved one somebad news.
I have to be professional rightnow.
(23:14):
I have to tell a loved one somebad news.
I have to be professional rightnow.
I have a guy who's a rapist andhe was shot six times and I
have to treat him.
I can't afford to look at himand say, I'm just going to let
you bleed out right now, orsomething like that.
I have to help him.
I have to put away all my—it'sa very hard thing to do to put
your—especially when you're amoral person.
Most people who go into firstresponse they want to help
(23:35):
people.
They're usually moral folks,usually, you know.
And when you put aside thosemorals for so long because you
have a job to do, where does allthat energy go?
Yeah.
It goes somewhere.
A repressed memory is still amemory in the head.
You just can't remember it, butit comes out at different
(24:01):
points in life depending on thetrigger stimulus that you
experience, you know.
So I personally, I telleverybody this, and skydivers
are guilty of this too.
You know, skydiving isinherently dangerous.
We had 10 deaths in 2023throughout the entire nation,
which is extremely low for whatit was in the 60s or 70s, and
we're very proud of that.
But I've had friends whocompartmentalize in skydiving
and you know, if someone, if oneof their good friends, gets
hurt and they have thousands ofjumps or they die, you can hear
(24:21):
it in their voice.
You can hear them say I toldhim not to do it.
You've known this guy for 12years.
Yeah, yeah, well, you know.
I'm like I know what you'redoing.
You're compartmentalizing rightnow, but then I see those guys
later on, you know, at theparking lot or something like
that, and see them breaking downbecause you know someone said
something small to them thewrong way throughout the day and
(24:44):
it was just enough.
You have to talk, you have toprocess these things, because
all that energy goes somewhereand it builds up, and it builds
up and it builds up until youexplode one day All right, folks
sit tight and we'll be rightback on Transacting Value.
Josh Porthouse (25:02):
Join us for Transacting Value, where we
discuss practical applicationsof personal values, every Monday
at 9am on our websitetransactingvaluepodcastcom,
Wednesdays at 5pm and Sundays atnoon on wreathsacrossamericaorg
slash radio.
Ross Mitchell (25:21):
You have to talk, you have to process these
things, because all that energygoes somewhere and it builds up,
and it builds up, and it buildsup, until you explode one day.
Josh Porthouse (25:32):
Well, actually it's a lot like what we were
saying earlier when we weretalking about science.
You brought it up and I'mpretty sure it was also Isaac
Newton I don't know, buddy,you'll have to tell me when we
talk later but I'm pretty sureit was also Isaac Newton where
he said everything about energy,that it's neither created nor
destroyed, it just changes form.
And so, to the same point and Ilike what you said about
compartmentalization you startputting all these emotions and
(25:54):
experiences into thesecompartments, right on an
ambulance, on a fire engine,whatever same thing in a humvee,
right, you start putting it inthese compartments.
And what does that do for youin an operation in terms of your
efficiency and action?
Raise it up absolutely, 100,absolutely, and then you put it
back where you found it andthat's where it stays and it has
a place and a name and a roleuntil it doesn't.
(26:17):
And then it has to go somewhere.
And so what happens with thegear that you don't use anymore?
It goes to the lot, somewherefor somebody else to use, to
pillage, to sell, to burn, torecycle, to whatever.
It still goes somewhere, butit's no longer fulfilling the
purpose that it did in thebeginning.
It's no longer fulfilling thepurpose that it did in the
beginning.
And I think to the point youbrought up about grief or even
(26:39):
moderation, that you can't be ona high all the time, and I
don't even mean like aheightened mental or emotional
state.
As a high I just mean, not alow.
You know what I mean.
So you can't avoid beingdepressed all the time.
Ross Mitchell (26:55):
No, it has to happen.
Yeah, in some way.
Josh Porthouse (26:59):
And I think that's why having some demon
slaying enterprise is necessary.
You have to find your Virgiland go for a walk every so often
and just deal with it.
You know you take yoursabbatical, that I don't know
(27:20):
12,000 feet to zero.
Great, do it If that's whatworks for you.
You know, if you got to gosomewhere to yell, why not do it
?
Going 180 miles an hour orwhatever it is, and and I think
those are powerful opportunities.
But I have to think when you'reat that degree of stimulation,
there's a crash.
That takes place, at least inthe beginning, if not every time
(27:43):
.
Am I far off the mark?
Ross Mitchell (27:44):
No, tomorrow when you jump, you're going to feel
it.
When you get down, you're goingto feel like you just sprinted
three miles, but you're going tolook at your wife and be like
whatever you want to do today.
Josh Porthouse (27:55):
I don't care, we'll do whatever.
Ross Mitchell (27:58):
Which is the nice part of it?
It levels you, you know.
Sure but there is a crash.
Josh Porthouse (28:02):
Yeah, so I mean it sounds like it almost force
feeds an opportunity to processthat maybe before you were
neglecting even still.
Ross Mitchell (28:12):
Yeah.
Josh Porthouse (28:12):
Right, so, okay.
So saying that then it'severything in an equal and
opposite reaction, right?
So as high as you get, is thatas low as you go, do you think,
in terms of a behavior, anemotion or cognition after a
jump, does that, do you think,have the potential to exacerbate
(28:35):
any of these compartmentalizedfeelings?
Ross Mitchell (28:38):
I think on the first.
It's when you have 500 jumps ora lot of jumps, you start to
get a little desensitized tosome things you know.
But the highs come fromdifferent types of things that
happen up there For you.
Tomorrow you're going toexperience that high, you know.
Things that happen up there Foryou.
Tomorrow you're going toexperience that high, you know.
And as far as the proportionsof it, yeah, it is the highest
(29:00):
you can possibly be right there,but it does insinuate that you
are going to have a crash.
There's been many times and youmade me think of it, but there
have been many times where I'vehad great days at the drop zone
and I drive home borderline intears because I'm mellowed out.
And now I'm thinking aboutthings and I'm happy.
But now I'm processing things alittle bit more.
(29:22):
I'm thinking about how did Iget here, what happened during
that time?
And it all led me to this spot.
Why did I respond that way?
How would I respond now?
Looking back on that, and Ithink it gives you, instead of a
90-degree sight picture, itgives you more of a 108-degree
(29:44):
or even 360-degree sight picture.
Skydiving it's not a fix, it isdefinitely a treatment.
But when you combine thesemodalities with therapy and
you're having this balance inyour life and you're able to go
to therapy and you're actuallyable to get a little bit more of
a better product out of it.
I think it overall justbenefits everything.
(30:06):
But, like you said, there needsto be a low point, there needs
to be depression.
I think today there's a largeemphasis on happiness in social
media today, yeah, and I thinkit's good.
But at the same time I think itmight give people a skewed
reality on how the human psycheworks and what should be
(30:28):
happening up there.
You're not supposed to be happy100% of the time.
You won't appreciate anything.
Josh Porthouse (30:35):
Conversely, seeing other people be happy
100% of the time.
You need to learn to appreciatesome things too, but for the
exact same reason.
Right, it goes both ways.
And so having opportunitieslike that whether it's skydiving
or whatever it is, I think is apowerful opportunity to have,
is a powerful opportunity tohave, but sort of an interesting
(30:55):
position of authority to givesomebody that degree of
ownership back.
You know so many people.
I talked to a guy a few daysago who went and had breakfast.
He retired as a registerednurse after 40 years.
That's a long time and inPennsylvania, as a matter of
fact, long time.
And in Pennsylvania, as amatter of fact, and as his sort
(31:21):
of off ramp out of his nursingcareer, he decided he was going
to go work in emergency anddisaster management to sort of
temper down the chaos.
I guess I'm not sure.
Reduce the complexityincrementally, whatever.
Ross Mitchell (31:32):
Yeah, he's titrating, he's attempting to.
Josh Porthouse (31:36):
Yeah, yeah, well so after a couple years he said
dude, this is too much.
I've been hospitalized in theER five times for stress, I'm
just done, and that was it.
And then he just retired andthat was a little while ago.
So you know, there's all sortsof things, I think, where you
try to manage that lack ofcontrol or perceived lack of
control.
But even in those environmentsit's like you said earlier, I
(31:58):
don't know how people do it for20 years Paramedic, for example,
which is arguably very similarto being in the military, or law
enforcement, or firefight, allthe above first responders that
gives you the same degree ofperspective where I remember, in
my first four years, I remembersitting there hearing people
(32:19):
that had been in for whatever 12, 15, 17, 25, some odd years all
say very similar things thatyou know I've been doing this
for so long.
I'm on my third wife and youknow whatever Good thing,
gunny's got alcohol in theoffice.
(32:40):
You know whatever, I'm justgoing to go out and shoot guns
this weekend.
You're like, dude, what are youdoing with yourself?
Ross Mitchell (32:44):
A little bit of a crude acceptance in it.
Josh Porthouse (32:47):
yeah, well it may be an attempt and maybe it
was all joking, you know.
Ross Mitchell (32:51):
I don't know, I don't.
Josh Porthouse (32:52):
I, especially at the time, didn't have like you
said, I didn't have insight intothose groups.
I just knew from the bottom ofthe hierarchy, looking up and
hearing the sound waves comedown the mountain.
That's all I knew.
So it seemed to be the reality,right?
So I didn't want that.
Then I got there and I was like, nope, this is exactly what
people are doing, this isexactly how people are talking.
(33:14):
You know, and maybe not all,maybe not most, but the ones I
came across was fairly accurateMultiple marriages, multiple
poor coping strategies andtrying to find outlets to
process those things in onemanner of effect and success or
another.
And so then getting into aposition where you are now
(33:38):
working with a nonprofitproviding a service and an
opportunity to instead takepeople this is at least how I
see it to instead take peoplefrom.
This is just how it is in thesystem.
Whatever the system is, this isjust how it is.
You just got to suck it up, youjust got to deal with it, cope
with it and process every oneLike, no, you don't, you can
(34:00):
walk in and, as maybe trivial orchildish as it seems like, you
can walk into that room andleave your bad attitude outside,
or however you want to phraseit, and go to work Like it is
still exactly what you make ofit.
You know, and I don't know thatthat's as well or widely
publicized, but you're creatingopportunities to give people
(34:20):
that ownership back.
Yeah, that's huge.
Ross Mitchell (34:23):
You can walk away .
You know, sometimes, like forme, I walked away from a job and
I listened to my gut.
Yeah, but it was an identitycrisis.
Right, I said my identity isI'm here to serve.
Yeah, and that's what I want inlife.
I was put here on this earth tomake sure that others are okay
(34:44):
and my personal entrance and mypersonal well-being is secondary
.
And this is a common perceptionamongst first responders in the
military.
You know, you're trained to bethat way.
It's why we're good at the job.
But that individual who isstruggling so much, going into
the same job every day, they'renot saying anything about it and
(35:05):
they're just like this is ituntil I retire or I die?
I'm going to get cancer youjust accept it.
You just accept it, right, youcan walk away.
It's just are you willing topart ways with an identity that
might be behind you at thispoint and you're kind of
clinging on to If you walk away?
There are other opportunitiesout there and there's a lot of
(35:27):
beautiful, amazing people outthere that are willing to help
you, which is a big reason forLeaps of Hope.
I know what it feels like tofeel horrible and that's a big
reason why one of the values Ilive by is kindness.
I try and be kind to everybodyI meet.
Now, you never know whatsomeone's going through.
You never know, you have noidea what just happened in that
(35:48):
person's day and you just beingkind to them for just a couple
seconds might make their day.
It might stop them from doingsomething drastic when they go
home or something like that.
So kindness is one of them.
It's a huge value that I reallycare about a lot and I think
the people I surround myselfwith believe that as well from
(36:08):
the friends that I have.
But with Leaps of Hope, we knowpeople are still out there
feeling like this is it and Ihave nothing left, this is all
it is for me, or they feel thatthey have nowhere to go, they
have no other options, no otheroutlets, and they feel like no
one's coming, or they feel thatthey can't reach out for help In
(36:32):
the Marine Corps.
How would it have gone if afour-time divorced gunny
alcoholic went to his leadershipand said he was depressed?
He'd be all right, go back towork.
Right, he'd be all right, goback to work, or, depending on
how vindictive the leadership is, they might try— he doesn to go
to work anymore.
Yeah, you don't have to go towork.
(36:52):
They might try and get rid ofyou, Right?
So it doesn't.
The Marine Corps doesn't donecessarily a great job of
fostering mental well-being, butleaders like you you know help
that, which is why I'm thankfulguys like you stay in.
Josh Porthouse (37:07):
Alrighty, folks sit tight and we'll be right
back on Transacting Value.
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Josh Porthouse (38:12):
Marine Corps doesn't do necessarily a great
job of fostering mentalwell-being, but leaders like you
, you know, help that, which iswhy I'm thankful guys like you
stay in Well let me also caveatthat dovetail here, whatever the
expression is right, becausegot that dovetail here, whatever
(38:32):
the expression is right,because that has been the case
and I'm also going to speculatein every branch or any military
around the world because youhave to build some sort of
intentional distancing or copingmechanism to do things that
aren't as natural and sometimesinhumane, like shoot somebody,
right.
But to that point I thinkthere's also, like you were
talking about, a degree ofownership that you can foster
(38:54):
with just a little bit ofkindness.
You know you walk digging afighting hole right Like a six
foot deep hole, for example,that you stand in and well,
that's about it, you stand in it, and so to have somebody walk
up and down this line of holesas you're digging, it gives you
a little bit of hope and purposewhen somebody who's not digging
(39:16):
, like the commander or whoever,walks up and says you doing
okay.
Mm-hmm.
I didn't actually know anybodycared.
No, not at all.
I really don't want to do this.
I'm tired and I'm really hungry.
Thanks for asking, sir.
Ross Mitchell (39:30):
Grant, no one's ever checked on me when I've
been digging a fighting hole.
Josh Porthouse (39:34):
I wish they would have.
But maybe it's hypotheticalthen for some people.
But to have those kinds ofopportunities and conversations
where everybody knows nobodyhere is having a good time that
you still extend some sort of ahand not a handout, but a hand
it can make all the difference.
You know, and the irony here,with all of this, you said your
(39:55):
identity changed.
I don't know that it has reallythat much.
I mean, you're still, it soundslike in a position where you're
helping other people heal andputting you second.
It's just the application ofthat skill set is now
(40:16):
drastically different than in anambulance, for example.
So you know, there's got to be,I think, a little bit of
comfort in that kind ofcontinuity.
You know, because I don't wantto make it sound futile as an
effort, but to be able to be ina position where you can
(40:39):
reinvent the application of yourstrengths without losing sight
of who you are, as long as youhave awareness of what those
strengths happen to be you knowyou.
You know your character.
You mentioned your valuesystems.
This is a good point, I supposein the conversation called
developing character D-D-DDeveloping character.
So for anybody who's new to theshow Ross, obviously you
(41:02):
included.
It's two questions.
Entirely up to you how in-depthyou want to answer it.
But here's the reason.
I have a working theory thatvalues are a shortcut to
identity and grounding anddeepening relationships and they
become that sort of continuityfor our decisions in application
.
And so not all of what youaccomplished is because you were
(41:27):
taught or because you chased it.
I have to believe some of itwas just natural and you grew up
around these types of values orcharacter or something about it
.
So my two questions are one,what were some of the values you
were raised on or that youremember growing up around?
And two, after all yourexperiences now to this point,
(41:47):
what then are some of yourvalues now?
Ross Mitchell (41:49):
experiences now to this point.
What, then, are some of yourvalues now?
Growing up with the environmentthat I was in, there was a lot
of turmoil.
My father had to play a lot ofroles.
He was a phenomenal provider.
He went to work every day,sometimes seven days a week.
Blue collar job, working forthe city any job he could find
just to put food on the table.
(42:10):
Seven days a week blue collarjob, working for the city any
job he could find just to putfood on the table.
He was a recovering addict andhe was.
He came from a generation um,and, knowing his father and how
he was raised, uh, he was raisedvery disciplinary, very
authoritarian, um, and that'sjust the only way he knew how to
parent and he was under a lotof stress.
My mom was using um all the wayup until I was about 11 or 12
(42:30):
years old which are performativeyears for any child and she was
constantly in and out all thetime.
When she was around, she wasgreat, very loving, just very
happy to be there and just havea moment of peace with her kids.
Just very happy to be there andjust have a moment of peace
with our kids.
But when she was gone and shewas struggling with her
(42:52):
addiction.
It was me and my sister.
For the most part, my sisterwatched me.
Sometimes we didn't have ababysitter, sometimes we did.
She's older, she's a littleolder.
She was born in 91.
I was born in 95.
Okay, we're a little close, butmy father had a lot of stress
under him and I actually talkedwith him about this years ago
(43:14):
and he contemplated leavingmultiple times and I appreciate
that he didn't, you know, but hewas going to take care of us.
So he never gave up.
Like I really appreciate thatabout my father.
He never gave up, but he Ireally appreciate that about my
(43:35):
father he never gave up and uh,but he had a temper on him and
growing up with the lack ofattention that I was getting, I
found any way that I couldn'tget attention.
The biggest thing was makingyou smile.
Well, if I can make you laugh,no matter how that didn't, no
matter how I did good or badusually bad that meant some
approval for me.
It meant like oh, oh, like avalidation, like a validation
(43:56):
Interesting, like, oh, I'm intheir good graces right now.
You know, like, oh, maybethey're going to stick around,
you know, because I was alwaysused to the person I always
wanted around leaving, you know,but my father, when he was with
me, he became very distrustingof the people around him, even
(44:19):
family, really Very distrusting,because he couldn't trust the
people closest to him.
A lot of the time, you know, hewas in a very bad position and
with me acting out and megetting in trouble, I think I
set the record for mostdetentions in first grade or
something like that.
But I was constantly inin-school suspension.
I was constantly getting introuble.
I think I set the record formost detentions in first grade
or something like that.
But I was constantly in schoolsuspension.
I was constantly getting intofights.
(44:39):
I'm sure that didn't help.
It did not help and he onlyknew one way to discipline and
he did it, you know, and I wasusually the receiving end of
that all the time.
So I caught beatings Uh, theywere not spankings, you know,
they were beatings and I Iremember going to school in my
head with throb for days, youknow.
(45:01):
So, um, I didn't reallyunderstand boundaries growing up
.
I didn't understand how tospeak for myself.
I was labeled as a bad kid, youknow, even from some other
family members, just becausethey thought I was humorous at
the time, you know.
And they're just like ah, youknow, but for a kid, you know,
(45:23):
that sticks, it sticks in yourhead.
So I had very low self-esteem,very low confidence, and I
constantly was just trying toget approval and that follows me
all the way into adulthood.
Even now I know when it'shappening now and I try and take
a step back when I know it'shappening, especially with
(45:43):
friends and whatnot, like no,let's hold your friend
accountable right now.
You don't have to tell themwhat they want to hear.
You need to tell them what theyneed to hear right now.
So that's helped me a lot.
But growing up it caused a lotof issues.
So I really, when I look at mychildhood and I was telling you
like I have a hard time eventoday processing some of the
(46:03):
things that happen.
So I'm still learning as I go.
I'm only 29.
This stuff didn't happen thatlong ago, um and uh.
I think what I got mainly fromfrom growing up was uh, never
give up on on a, on a dream oran idea that you have Cause.
My father's dream was to havehis wife by his side all the
(46:27):
time and for her to be doingwell and for her to do well so
she can do well for us.
And I think that's maybe one ofthe values that I got from him
was don't give up, and if youkeep on working, if you keep
doing it, something good willhappen.
Maybe my mom won't come back,but maybe his kids might do
(46:50):
something good in the future.
Something like that.
You know, with the good thingsthat happen might not always be
what your exact idea is in yourhead, but I am not regretful of
what happened growing up.
Um, that lot did happen, uh,but uh, I'm happy that it all
happened, because it's thereason why I am today.
(47:13):
I always say if you've trulyever felt bad in your life, you
never want anybody else to feelthat way.
If you know what that feelslike like really know what it
feels like unless you're asociopath you don't want people
to feel that way.
Yeah, it's horrible.
I remember I did a veteransretreat to Colorado one time.
We were summiting this mountain.
It's horrible.
I remember I did a.
I did a veterans retreat toColorado One time.
We were summiting this mountain.
It sucked Like I mean, it waseight hours of high altitude
(47:37):
headaches and high altitudesickness and we sat down right
before the peak and we talkedabout stuff and they were in a
very vulnerable like you'retired, you're saying whatever
you want.
It was the things I was talkingabout were hurting so much.
I would have much rather wentup that mountain and went back
to the pain.
Yeah, so it says something thathow strong can your emotions be
(48:00):
that you would much ratherprefer severe physical pain
rather than deal with youremotions.
It shows that they're prettypowerful in the end.
So everything that happenedwhen I was a kid, I'm not then
deal with your emotions.
It shows that they're prettypowerful in the end.
So everything that happenedwhen I was a kid I'm not angry
about anymore.
I just know that they turned meinto who I am today.
But the values that I got frommy father was he gave me a lot,
(48:24):
even though I was pretty hard onhim for a little bit.
Josh Porthouse (48:30):
Well, it goes both ways in time.
It's interesting and this isreally one of the last points I
guess I'll bring up for the sakeof time, but it's interesting.
You spend so long at least in mycase, I spent so long feeling
like I was running further andfurther away from the people I
didn't want to become which,when I was younger, were
basically my parents that I hadkicked up so much dust and so
(48:53):
much dirt and just running thatI didn't realize it was a
circular track, good way ofputting it and eventually I
think, I started to resent someof that, and maybe to a degree I
still do.
Like you said, you figure it outas you grow.
But in that I also started toappreciate then what was
happening or what had happenedgrowing up, just in a light that
(49:16):
I wasn't necessarily familiarwith.
So you're certainly not alonein that assessment.
And it's interesting the amountof opportunities you have or
that you can create to talk topeople about it.
And so I guess, speaking ofopportunities and probably my
last question for the sake oftime here but as far as Leaps of
Hope is concerned, for anybodythat's interested in that
experience wants to find outmore about that experience, or
(49:38):
even skydiving in general, whatit can do for them as a therapy,
as an outlet, as just anopportunity to live a different
level of life where do people go?
Ross Mitchell (49:47):
So right now we're in the founding phases of
it.
Everything's in with the lawyer.
We have the process going withthe IRS, which is the longest
part, but we're paid up andwe're ready to go.
We're going to be building awebsite here very soon.
We're in the project managementphase with one of my board
members and, as of right now, wejust have social media.
(50:10):
My board members and, as ofright now, we just have social
media.
So the biggest part with thiswith the nonprofit as novice as
I am at this is exposure.
Right, I need people to knowwhat this is well before we even
get up and going Absolutelyyeah, exactly.
So exposure and marketing.
So we have Instagram, we haveFacebook right now, keeping it
(50:31):
simple, instagram is phenomenal,but on Instagram we're called
Leaps of Hope, all one thing, nounderscores or anything like
that, just Leaps of Hope.
And then my personal Instagramis here for the thrills, thrills
, with a Z at the end instead ofan S.
Classy, exactly, yeah, wordsspelling.
But people can reach out to methrough either outlet.
(50:59):
Okay, and it's, it's going to.
It's it's.
I read every message I get andI have a lot of people who want
to be candidates, who want tocome in and do this, but
reaching out to me on socialmedia right now is going to be
the best way and I uploadeverything to that.
Josh Porthouse (51:10):
To Instagram or.
Both.
Ross Mitchell (51:12):
To Instagram and Facebook.
I upload everything to that andthat's how everyone stays aware
and up to date with all theinfo and what we're doing.
Sweet, we have a lot of peoplewho want to back it.
So Black Rifle Coffee a few oftheir representatives there,
(51:33):
like Dean and Edwin, haveexpressed interest in wanting to
back it and sponsor it.
Having conversations withShields Going to be having a
conversation with Red Bull ifeverything works out and a lot
of canopy companies, a lot ofsmall, veteran-owned businesses.
They all understand you, get it.
You know what.
I mean, anyone who's been theregets it.
So we have a lot of people whowant to get behind this, which
(51:55):
is overwhelming, I feel like wayover my head.
But I'm going to figure it out.
I am unequivocally determinedto get this done and I will get
it done.
It's the one thing that I wantto leave behind, if something
were to ever happen to me, isthis right here, and we have a
board of military, formermilitary and all skydivers with
(52:16):
a vast background, some vastcorporate backgrounds, special
operations backgrounds, somestill active, still in um,
female, male, uh, a lot ofdifferent perspectives on the
board.
But essentially what we're goingto try and do is we're going to
take people in tandems at firstand then whoever expresses
(52:36):
interest or whoever really showsa want to keep going in the
sport, we'll fly them out, we'llhouse them, we're going to put
them in the wind tunnel and getthem trained up so that when
they go to Accelerated Free FallSchool AFF, they're successful
and they, they can, they canprogress um, pay for their aff,
(52:57):
pay for their license, give themgear I'm hoping to get them
parachutes, get them everythingto get them into the sport entry
level and then give them inthat community that's you know
we were saying earlier the guysout there who are struggling,
our organization and many otherslike it.
Like we will find you and wewill help you out.
(53:19):
We'll give you something Sweet.
You know, even if you don'tlike skydiving after you get
done with it, you still got it.
You know it might lead you onto better things.
Josh Porthouse (53:28):
Well, like you said, the amount of clarity
after the fact may be just thehook or the trigger that you
need to start moving into adirection that suits you better.
Ross Mitchell (53:36):
Yeah.
Josh Porthouse (53:36):
Yeah, tough call , man, but I appreciate the
opportunity to sit here and talk, to cover this, to talk about
leaps of hope, to talk aboutjust reconciling how you come
across to yourself as yourself,to other people in relationships
, the catalyst for that to beable to do it effectively.
It's such a powerfulopportunity.
(53:58):
Whether or not you realize it,man, you're effectively with the
rest of us, digitizing Americanmilitary subculture and it's
not showcased anywhere else.
And it's not showcased anywhereelse and any more than, like
you know, invest in gold, jointhis organization, don't forget
to get your hearing aids andfile for TRICARE and, you know,
(54:19):
education benefits and all thosethings are cool, but we're way
more than our trauma and theseconversations show that.
Ross Mitchell (54:30):
Yeah.
Josh Porthouse (54:31):
Yeah, so I appreciate it, man.
Ross Mitchell (54:32):
No, thank you for having me Super cool.
Josh Porthouse (54:33):
This was great to talk.
Super cool and theseconversations show that.
Ross Mitchell (54:35):
Yeah, so I appreciate it, man.
No, thank you for having meSuper cool.
This was great to talk Supercool.
Finally, all this stuff issuper hard for me to even say
just because I've been around somany people who had so much
worse, but it's all relative.
Absolutely, in the end, it's allrelative.
We all have the same feelingsand sitting here and talking
with you, even if we weren'ttalking about this, I'm just
grateful to be around you again,man, I missed you.
Oh, that's cool, missed you alot.
I appreciate that.
(54:55):
Yeah, I appreciate that, thankyou for having me.
Josh Porthouse (54:56):
Yeah, definitely .
And to everybody who'sobviously tuned in to listen to
this conversation or to watch ithere on YouTube, a couple
points for you guys.
One conversation on you canclick see more.
You can click show more, and inthe drop down description for
this conversation, you'll beable to see links to Leaps of
Hope on Instagram and Facebook.
Once your website comes up, letme know, shoot me a text or an
(55:18):
email.
We'll add it in as well, forright now, social media is where
you're going to find it.
Now, saying that.
The other thing I'll leave youwith If you like this
conversation or not and you wantto hear more of our
conversations If you like thisconversation or not and you want
to hear more of ourconversations, go to our website
TransactingValuePodcastcom.
When you get to the homepage,here's a really cool opportunity
we have for everybody.
(55:38):
In the top right-hand corner,there's a button that says Leave
a Voicemail.
Do it.
It's two minutes of talk time.
It's all yours, yeah, andyou'll be able to do and say
anything you want.
Here's my recommendation forwhat you can do with it.
One tell us what you think aboutthe show, my style, my
questions, the topics, theinsight, the ideas, how will you
(55:59):
understand what we're trying toget across?
Give us some feedback and letus know the production value.
Relay to my team how good of ajob you think they're doing and
I'll ensure that they get yourmessage.
But secondly, tell Ross whatyou think about the conversation
.
Give him some feedback, becausewe're all growing through life
together, separately and whatyou think about Leaps of Hope as
an idea, as an outlet, as anopportunity, and then they can
(56:22):
better build out that nonprofit,their strategic partners, the
opportunities and the benefitsto anybody for potential
therapies or anything else theycan do with it.
That's what makes this processpossible the feedback.
So take the opportunity.
I appreciate you letting meshare this one and maybe even
(56:42):
your drive home with you.
But for right now and untilnext time, that was Transacting
Value.
Thank you to our show partnersand folks.
Thank you for tuning in andappreciating our value as we all
grow through life together.
To check out our otherconversations or even to
contribute through feedbackfollows, time, money or talent
and to let us know what youthink of the show, please leave
a review on our website,transactingvaluepodcastcom.
(57:05):
We also stream new episodesevery Monday at 9 am Eastern
Standard Time through all ofyour favorite podcasting
platforms like Spotify, iheartand TuneIn.
You can now hear TransactingValue on Wreaths Across America
Radio, eastern Standard Time.
Wednesdays at 5 pm, sundays atnoon and Thursdays at 1 am.
Head to wreathsacrossamericaorg.
(57:25):
Slash transactingvalue tosponsor a wreath and remember,
honor and teach the value offreedom for future generations.
On behalf of our team and ourglobal ambassadors, as you all
strive to establish clarity andpurpose, ensure social
tranquility and secure theblessings of liberty or
individual sovereignty ofcharacter for yourselves and
(57:46):
your posterity, we will continueinstigating self-worth and
we'll meet you there Until nexttime.
That was Transacting Value.
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