March 31, 2025 • 44 mins
Become a Global Ambassador for Self-Worth. Text us your feedback!
Have you ever wondered why some conversations flow effortlessly while others feel stilted and awkward? In this episode of Transacting Value, we dive into a captivating discussion with Dr. Amanda Kenderes about her transformative talk type model. Through her research, she established a framework that reveals how our preferences in communication impact our social dynamics—especially for those who experience social anxiety. Join us for this enlightening journey and discover how your voice aids in crafting your identity while connecting authentically with others.
(20:29) https://porthouse.kw.com/
(31:18) https://www.passiton.com/
Learn more about Amanda and Talk Types by visiting https://talktypes.com/.
To purchase Amanda’s book “Talk Types: How What We Say Reveals Who We Are” you can visit her website https://amandakenderes.com/ or Amazon.com.
Looking for more perspective, empowerment, and self-worth?
For a chance to hear your question answered on the air, remember to Subscribe and Leave a Voice Message at TransactingValuePodcast.com!
We'll meet you there.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Josh Porthouse (00:00):
The views expressed in this podcast are
solely those of the podcast hostand guest and do not
necessarily represent those ofour distribution partners,
supporting businessrelationships or supported
audience.
Welcome to Transacting Value,where we talk about practical
(00:22):
applications for instigatingself-worth when dealing with
each other and even withinourselves, where we foster a
podcast listening experiencethat lets you hear the power of
a value system for managingburnout, establishing boundaries
, fostering community andfinding identity.
My name is Josh Porthouse, I'myour host and we are redefining
sovereignty of character.
(00:42):
This is why values still holdvalue.
This is Transacting Value.
Amanda Kenderes (00:49):
For social anxiety.
When we have a combination of aboosted confidence plus an
extended vocabulary to help usunderstand and navigate talk and
social interactions, weapproach the situation from a
very different place.
Josh Porthouse (01:08):
Today on Transacting Value.
What if you could find identityand manage anxiety, all by
framing how you speak?
Professor of social sciencesand author of how what we Say
Reveals who we Are.
And author of how what we SayReveals who we Are.
Dr Amanda Kanderis says it'snot only possible, it's
(01:35):
teachable.
And because our values arewoven into our talk types, we're
going to talk all about it.
I'm Josh Porthouse, I'm yourhost and from SDYT Media.
This is Transacting Value,amanda how you doing.
Amanda Kenderes (01:44):
Hey, josh, so good to be here.
Thank you for having me.
Josh Porthouse (01:48):
Absolutely, absolutely.
I appreciate you taking timeout of your schedule.
I see you're not necessarily atoffice hours right now, so you
got some time off today, orwhat's going on?
Amanda Kenderes (02:00):
Yeah, wednesdays are good for me right
now, but you know that changesevery semester.
Josh Porthouse (02:05):
Yeah, I bet, I bet, we got the holidays coming
up now, at least as of thisrecording.
Amanda Kenderes (02:12):
So looking forward to a break.
Oh, don't we all.
It's so nice to just be able tounwind, and I love Christmas
time.
I really do.
It just takes me back to mychildhood and I love it.
I love every moment of it.
Josh Porthouse (02:27):
Now you, from what I understand, traveled a
lot.
Speaking of your childhood, Ithink it was for your dad's work
, if I remember what we spokeabout.
So let's just start there,because you've got a lot of
interwoven complexity throughoutyour story and I think it's
(02:49):
going to speak pretty heavilytowards some of these topics
about values and talk types andhow people communicate
effectively.
So let's just start there for acouple minutes.
Who are you, where are you fromand what sort of things are
fueling your perspective onsocial sciences and why it's
important?
Amanda Kenderes (03:01):
Yeah, so, yeah, some big questions.
Um, who am I?
Uh, yeah, well, depends.
There's so many ways to answerthat.
Right, this is a continuallyevolving answer.
But I grew up internationally.
Uh, you're right, it was mydad's job.
He, he worked for the usembassy, and so I grew up in
(03:23):
north and South America, asia,africa, europe.
Every three years, my familymoved to a new continent, so
really the only constant waschange in a really big way.
And so I realized that if I wasgoing to have an enjoyable time
(03:44):
in any one place, I was goingto need to learn to connect
quickly.
And I asked myself you knowwell how do we connect through
talk.
So what happened, just by virtueof my situation, is I became a
student of communication,because if I could talk better,
(04:08):
I could connect better.
So I started to try outdifferent kinds of talk with
people.
See what works, try, you know,try what I liked, try to learn
what others liked.
And the more I experimented,the more questions I developed,
(04:32):
and over the years I ended upinitially I had more questions
than answers, as it goes, butthen I ended up developing the
talk type model as an answer toall the questions, the
collection of the questions thatI had asked for 15 years, and
(04:55):
some of these questions were youknow, why is it that we can
walk into a crowded room, starta conversation with somebody and
just connect really easily,lose a sense of time An hour can
go by and we're so engaged andinterested.
And then, with somebody else, ittakes work to think of things
(05:19):
to say and to keep theconversation going.
Why is that?
Well, maybe the person that wetalked to for the hour.
They're just really easy totalk to, okay, but then why
doesn't this other person alsofind them easy to talk to?
Because they don't.
Why is this person laughing atmy joke, but not that one?
(05:41):
Why do we have differentpreferences in books or movies?
Why do we have different tastesin music?
So, basically, any area wherethat communication touch, I
questioned it.
I mean, that's virtually everyarea, from direct speech and
(06:02):
conversation to reading, writing, even Braille and sign language
, music, podcasts, movies andbody language, tone of voice,
all those you know calledpara-language.
So yeah, after all of thisobservation and experimentation,
(06:26):
I realized that really, peopleonly talk for three reasons,
three fundamental reasons.
That is it.
And the reason that we havedifferent, that we connect with
people differentially is becausewe may or we may not share a
preference.
(06:47):
We may not rank those threereasons the same.
When we do rank them bypreference, we get six talk
types.
There are six ways to rankthree variables.
Josh Porthouse (06:59):
Six ways to rank everybody.
Amanda Kenderes (07:02):
Yeah To every variable.
Josh Porthouse (07:04):
Three variables what do you mean?
Let's start there.
What are you talking about?
Amanda Kenderes (07:08):
So are the three ways of the three reasons
for talking.
We talked for three reasons.
Fundamentally, all peopleacross the globe, and I refer to
these three ways in different,or these three reasons in
different ways.
So in shorthand, I call them A,b and C.
We can also call them informing, relating and meaning-making.
(07:30):
And technically, a is objectiveunderstanding, b is subjective
experiencing and C is subjectiveunderstanding.
Those are the technical terms.
But these three reasons fortalking, when we rank them by
preference, we end up with sixtalk types, which is our home
(07:55):
base.
They're like archetypes thatjust showcase what we like.
So, yeah, three communicationstyles, or six communication
styles, as it were.
So some people prefer factualtalk, some people prefer
relating, where they ask youknow, how was your weekend, what
did you do?
(08:15):
Did you have fun?
And other people prefer thedeep, you know meaning of life,
questions or personal growth,that kind of stuff, and we don't
like them all the same,incidentally.
And when we look at them, yeah,it's a predictor of connection.
It's also a predictor ofpotential conflict.
(08:39):
There's a lot there, but that'sjust the start.
Josh Porthouse (08:43):
Alrighty, folks sit tight, We'll be right back
on Transacting Value.
Join us for Transacting Value,where we discuss practical
applications of personal values,every Monday at 9am on our
websitetransactingvaluepodcastcom,
Wednesdays at 5pm and Sundays atnoon on wreathsacrossamericaorg
slash radio at noon onwreathsacrossamericaorg slash
(09:09):
radio.
Amanda Kenderes (09:10):
When we look at them, yeah, it's a predictor of
connection.
It's also a predictor ofpotential conflict.
There's a lot there, but that'sjust the start.
Yeah.
Josh Porthouse (09:17):
Yeah, okay, but this is you at I don't know 15
years old, let's say, trying tofigure out how to put those
concepts into these words, andthen, over the last I don't know
15 years old, let's say, tryingto figure out how to put those
concepts into these words, andthen, over the last I'm assuming
15 to 25 years, you figure itout and you put it in a book.
Well, what does it?
Do you know what I mean?
Knowledge without application,I think, tends to be a waste of
(09:40):
your time, right, and so youidentify these things, but did
it help you have conversations,or help you make friends or
start relationships, or was itmore content that just happened
to be accurate?
Amanda Kenderes (09:59):
Well, I mean, I guess the honest answer is I
think it's both A lot of timeswe're searching for answers to
questions and we honestly don'tknow what all the applications
are going to be.
It's sort of like the laser.
The laser now has God onlyknows how many applications you
(10:20):
know in medicine, in science, ineducation, I mean in.
You know in medicine andscience in education, I mean in
auto mechanics.
I mean you could just fill inthe blank aerospace, engineering
, whatever.
But when the laser first cameout, nobody knew what to do with
it.
In fact it was nicknamed thesolution looking for a problem.
Josh Porthouse (10:44):
Interesting.
Amanda Kenderes (10:45):
Yeah, so sometimes when new models,
theories, innovations,inventions come out, people
don't immediately know what todo with them.
I think that that's fair andthose applications can reveal
themselves over time.
Now, that said, I have had sometime, but it's been my own
(11:14):
personal interaction with thetalk type model and the
experiences that I have with itand the applications I've been
able to use it for may bedifferent from what many other
people.
You know their experience, andso time will tell.
But for me, the first thingthat it did for me was to help
(11:37):
me to feel a sense of belonging.
This was a major shift for me,longing.
This was a major shift for mebecause I really loved deep
talks.
So I would just, you know, Ifigured why, why bother with the
(12:00):
small talk?
Let's just skip the small talkand go straight to the deep talk
.
So on the playground inelementary school, I would be
asking the kids, my peers, abouttheir home lives and how happy
oh, I was not.
Yeah, I figured, once you godown the slide, once you know
(12:22):
what it's like.
So I preferred to sit in theshade under the wooden
playground set and just haveconversations with people.
I was that kid that just likedto observe.
I wasn't a loner.
I had friends, but the friendsthat I tended to make, because
(12:45):
most of the kids around medidn't really love these kinds
of talks.
I just ended up learning whatthey like to do and going along
with it, and it was fine, it wasacceptable, but I knew that it
wasn't fully me.
It was fine, it was, it wasacceptable, but I knew that it
(13:07):
wasn't fully me.
After I tried this out with thekids on the playground um, you
know, jump into the deep talks Ithought, well, maybe this isn't
for kids, maybe this is more ofa grownup thing.
So I tried it out with some ofthe grownups in my life.
So, um, teachers, parents, uh,well, my parents, I, um, my dad
was was my deep talk buddy, butoutside of home, parents,
coaches, bus drivers, this sortof thing and I would jump right
(13:30):
in with them and I would askquestions like what's happiness?
And if they were married, Iwould ask how did you know you'd
found the one as a kid?
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
How did you know you'd foundthe one?
Was it a kid?
No, oh yeah, oh yeah, oh.
That was I mean from elementaryschool on.
(13:54):
So it didn't go over super wellwith the adults and I actually
got really down because Ithought, well, gee, if this
isn't, you know, deep talks,it's not for kids, most kids.
I mean it's for me, I'm a kid,but okay, it's not for most kids
.
And most of the adults that Italked to weren't into it either
(14:17):
.
Now, granted, this is from myown limited kind of perspective.
Maybe those adults would havebeen more inclined to have those
conversations with anotheradult.
Maybe you know part of what wasyou know in inhibiting that was
that I was eight years old andthey didn't know how to.
So so that could have beenhappening.
(14:38):
But in my in it, from myvantage point, with my logic, I
thought there, I thought there'sno space for me, I don't belong
here, and I ended up just kindof performing my way through the
rest of elementary school,middle school, high school and
(15:00):
finally, at 19, I had anargument with my dad that ended
up leading to the epiphany ofthe talk types.
Josh Porthouse (15:10):
An argument did.
Amanda Kenderes (15:13):
Sometimes it's those negative things that end
up being your best kind ofpositive.
Yeah Turned into a positivemoment.
Josh Porthouse (15:22):
Well, so here's something for you that I haven't
told you yet.
You and I first spoke I don'tremember exactly call it a month
ago, and since then I wentthrough your book and for
anybody listening to this orwatching this conversation, I
have no reason to tell you itwas good, except for the fact it
(15:44):
was.
I've never met you outside ofthese conversations.
I don't know you personally.
You know what I mean.
So this is about as objectivean unbiased opinion I can give
you.
It's probably the most accuratething I've ever read and then
inadvertently, unwittingly, putinto practice that actually
applies accurately.
Put into practice that actuallyapplies accurately.
(16:08):
Everybody I've talked to overthe last month has so far fit
very well into your categoriesand what it's done for me.
You mentioned belonging.
I didn't really care to belonginto any of these conversations
or relationships, which was partof the problem I started to
zone out.
But the more I started to pickup on the pattern of, okay, wait
(16:28):
a minute, this is a little bitmore subjective but not quite as
deep.
Or this small talk maybe that Ithought was, I don't know
impertinent, happened to be alittle bit more objective than
what I was prepared to talkabout.
It gave me a minute to reorienthow I was perceiving the
conversation and develop somepatience and some insight and
(16:51):
humility, I guess, and get overmy own ego.
So from that point first,before we go any further, I
think you're onto something.
I think it was pretty accurate.
Amanda Kenderes (17:04):
Thank you.
Josh Porthouse (17:05):
You're welcome, but that brings me to my next
question.
That's just my experience,right?
So, understanding what wetalked about a little bit
earlier, understanding that howpeople talk or, more
specifically, how what we saycan reveal who we are, not who,
or how other people speak andtalk, or who they are, what does
it do for us as the individual,better understanding how we
(17:28):
prefer to speak?
How does that help us developan identity or control over
ourselves?
Amanda Kenderes (17:37):
Yeah, so there's so much here to unpack.
But first of all, we couldstart out with the idea that, um
, communication is how weinterface with the world.
So if we have a betterunderstanding of communication,
we have a better understandingof any area of life that
(18:02):
communication touches, which isvirtually everything, from our
interpersonal conversations andrelationships to, uh, from our
(18:25):
interpersonal conversations andrelationships to our coworkers
and colleagues to work, to thepeople we meet on the
preferences, our sense of humor,our sense of how we define what
it means to be known, to knowand be known to understand and
to be understood.
You know the activities wedelight in, how we spend our
leisure time, how we recuperatewhen we're tired, emotionally,
(18:50):
physically, psychologically,what energizes us and gives us,
brings us joy.
All of these areas are touchedby the talk types and more,
because communication finds usin each of those areas.
(19:11):
So let's take an example thethree communication categories,
abc, so informing, relating,meaning, making.
We can think of that as factualtalk, maybe small talk and deep
talk.
Just you know if we want toreally kind of give it an easy
(19:36):
nickname.
And but these threecommunication categories are
really drives, three differentdrives.
Drives, three different drives.
(19:57):
What drives us to talk isactually a deeper drive of what
are we looking for in life, whydo we do what we do?
So if you have A in your talktype, objective understanding,
informing, factual talk we havethat we're looking to
objectively understand and to beobjectively understood when we
(20:18):
listen.
So this not only impacts how wetalk but how we listen to
others.
Josh Porthouse (20:22):
Well, that's interesting.
All right, folks, sit tight andwe'll be right back on
Transacting Value.
Ad (20:29):
Tampa Bay sun-kissed beaches , a thriving art scene and a
community that embracesdiversity.
It's more than just a place tolive.
It's a lifestyle.
At Porthouse Tampa Bay Realtor,I understand that finding the
right home is about more thanjust square footage.
It's about finding the rightcharacter, culture and community
.
It's about finding a placewhere you can truly belong
(20:58):
Alongside a network ofexperienced marketers,
inspectors, realtors and lenders.
We're not just experts in theTampa Bay market.
We are your neighbors and we'repassionate about helping you
find the perfect place to callhome.
Follow along on YouTube,facebook and LinkedIn at
Porthouse Tampa Bay Realtor.
Porthouse, tampa Bay Realtor,where values start in the home.
Amanda Kenderes (21:17):
So if you have A in your talk type objective
understanding, informing factualtalk, we have that we're
looking to objectivelyunderstand and to be objectively
understood when we listen.
So this not only impacts how wetalk but how we listen to
others.
Josh Porthouse (21:36):
Well, that's interesting.
Amanda Kenderes (21:38):
We're listening for factual information anytime
people are talking.
And if somebody's doing smalltalk or talking about oh, this
is my favorite movie and I findit so funny in this scene when
this happens Well, there's noreal facts there for that person
(22:00):
to take in, it's justsomebody's opinion, subjective
experience.
Yeah, there's no objectivefacts there.
So it would be easy for thatperson, the A, to just kind of
check out if, if they're notintentional and aware of this
talk type model, they might justcheck out and that would be, um
(22:22):
, it would be unfortunatebecause the, the B, who's doing
the small talk, is trying toconnect yeah, same thing you
know, with with the, with the C,if we skip to the sea, um,
they're looking to subjectivelyunderstand.
So they're looking for the deepquestions and answers.
Um, you know what really doeslead to our growth as human
(22:46):
beings?
And, and sometimes it'schallenges, often it's
challenges.
But can joy also lead to ourgrowth?
These fascinating conversations?
There's no, maybe objective wayto measure some of that stuff.
(23:07):
That's the trouble with thesocial sciences.
So we try to understand itsubjectively as best we can.
That's C, and these folks arelistening for those reasons.
Now, if we think about A and Cas wanting to understand and be
understood.
(23:28):
What's A and C, what's B, bs,the, the relators, you know, who
are into small talk or sharingtheir experiences.
They aren't trying to make adeeper come to a draw deeper
conclusions and come to a deepunderstanding.
They're they're looking to beheard.
That's it.
(23:48):
They want to witness for whatthey're saying.
One of the things that I justlove about what this model does
for us is that it shifts us awayfrom some of the old, tired
models of communication thatwe've grown up with and we've
been taught in the classrooms.
And one of the things that wehear over and over is if you
(24:11):
want to be a bettercommunication, if you want to
improve your communication,what's one of the number one
rules?
Don't interrupt.
But here's the thing that onlyreally applies to bees, because
their objective, their goal fortalking is to be heard.
So, yeah, interrupting isantithetical to being heard.
(24:34):
And if you interrupt a, b,they're probably going to think
that you don't care or thatyou're not listening.
But if your goal isn't to beheard, it's to be understood.
So, in other words, a's and C'sIf somebody interrupts you to
say, hey, wait a minute, Ididn't quite catch that.
Could you explain that beforewe move on?
(24:55):
I'm not upset at all if I'm anA or C.
I'm thankful that I gotinterrupted, actually because
now the interruption is workingto further the objective or the
top goal and it helps me to seethat we're actually on the same
page.
Josh Porthouse (25:14):
Okay, all right, so I can appreciate there's a
little bit of a valuesproposition behind some of the
concepts, let's call it.
But we had also talked a littlebit earlier about how it can
better manage social anxietiesas well, and there's all sorts
of what would you call them, allsorts of catalysts or causes or
(25:38):
triggers.
I guess for any of this anxietyto come up right, it could be
an unfamiliar situation.
It could be unfamiliar anything, I guess Situation, people,
topics, whatever.
What does it do for that?
Amanda Kenderes (25:51):
Yeah, no social anxiety, it whatever.
What does it do for that?
Yeah, no, social anxiety.
It's huge and it's particularlysalient these days so many
people seem to be having.
Especially after COVID, it just, you know, the anxiety just
kind of went up exponentially.
So one of the reasons that wemay have social anxiety, or
(26:12):
anxiety in general, is we don'tknow what's going to happen, we
don't know what to prepare for,and it's that unknown and that's
scary.
But here's the thing how do wetackle unknowing?
We tackle unknowing by knowing.
(26:34):
That's the antidote.
If we don't know something,well then if we could just know
it, we could relax a little bitmore.
You know, if somebody isfinancially stressed but I said,
hey, you know, you're going toget $1,000 next week by Friday,
or $10,000 or whatever they need, oh, okay, oh, now, all of a
(26:55):
sudden, let's go have a sandwich, right?
So I think one of the thingsthat with social anxiety and
what's involved in socialrelationships talk,
communication, interaction.
So if we can understand, talkbetter, then we can navigate it
better and we're replacingunknown with you know, unknowing
(27:18):
, with knowing, and that's huge.
The other thing that it does isit validates us in that context
.
So it validates us in the senseof like as a kid, when I didn't
feel like I belongedcommunicationally.
Then I realized, oh my gosh,there's this, there's this talk
type model.
(27:39):
I've had kind of internalizedthe message that something was
wrong with me growing up andthat there was this kind of
right way of talking that I justdidn't fit into.
But when I unpacked, when Isort of discovered this talk
type model, I realized, oh, waita minute, there isn't one right
way of talking, or one normalway of talking, as it were.
(28:02):
There are six normal ways oftalking and I'm one of them and
that's okay.
And when that happens we boostour confidence For social
anxiety.
When we have a combination of aboosted confidence plus an
extended vocabulary to help usunderstand and navigate talk and
(28:26):
social interactions, weapproach the situation from a
very different place.
Josh Porthouse (28:34):
Yeah, it sounds like it and then controlling the
chaos I guess you mentioned theunknowns and then the knowing
or the knowns and trying toidentify these sort of footholds
in social circumstances.
And we've talked a lot aboutkids.
Footholds in socialcircumstances, you know, and
(28:54):
we've talked a lot about kids.
Obviously it's not specific toage or gender or ethnicity or
any of those things, they'rejust natural human tendencies, I
guess preferences forcommunicating more effectively.
But do you think there's anyapplication to that
professionally?
I don't mean as a professorspecifically, strictly speaking,
I mean like in an occupationalenvironment, to say, for example
(29:18):
, here's a good example I have alot of friends who have put in
20 years, 25 years in a federalposition or in the Department of
Defense, and then they get outand they're left to their own
devices, defense, and then theyget out and they're left to
their own devices.
But you can't communicate thesame way in Walmart, necessarily
, or with your familynecessarily, that you can in the
(29:39):
infantry or, like in my case,in the Marine Corps, almost writ
large.
I can't take that sort ofconversational style really
anywhere.
So what's the relevance there?
You start to identify some ofthese things, but then what do
you do with the application?
How can it help?
How can we use it?
Amanda Kenderes (30:01):
So we have at work here, we have talk types,
six talk types, which areuniversal, and then these six
talk types are interacting withother systems and frameworks.
So I was raised, you know, with, with a parent working for the
U S embassy, so so we were alsofederally employed and and I, I
(30:23):
know, you know, we, weinteracted with Marines, army,
Um, and yeah, there are going tobe there.
There are definitely differentways of interacting within these
groups and it's the same whenyou're retired, interacting with
your friends or at other jobsand other positions, certain
(30:46):
white collar jobs, or banking,or construction, you name it.
Every vocation has its owncultural standards, policies,
expectations and so on.
But within those otherframeworks we still have the six
(31:09):
talk types.
Those don't change.
Josh Porthouse (31:12):
All right, folks , sit tight and we'll be right
back on Transacting Value.
Ad (31:18):
Imagine a little lady who wouldn't give up her seat on the
bus, a TV host who wanted to beyour neighbor, or an inventor
whose 10,000 failures didn'tstop him.
These vivid images all sharethe same caption inspiration.
These people just did theirbest and they inspire us.
(31:38):
Now what will you do to inspireothers?
Inspiration is in you.
From PassItOncom.
Amanda Kenderes (31:48):
Every vocation has its own cultural standards,
policies, expectations and so on.
But within those otherframeworks we still have the six
talk types.
Those don't change.
So we're going to beinteracting with the same six
(32:08):
talk types wherever we go.
The difference isn't going tobe the talk types that we
interact with, it's going to bethe culture of the organization
that we're working for, theenvironment.
That's what's going to bedifferent.
So if we can learn these sixtalk types, at the very least
(32:33):
now we can navigate any.
You know we can navigatedifferent environments.
We can limit the new thingsthat we have to learn and figure
out and we can reduce the timeit takes to connect with people
within those environments.
So if I know that, okay, say, Istart a new job somewhere, I get
(32:58):
to know my boss.
I know the talk types, get toknow my boss just a little bit
and I can tell okay, he's a BA.
Well, now I know, okay, I'm aCA.
I lead with the deep stuff back.
Second, he doesn't have C inhis talk type.
He's probably going to beuncomfortable if I try to do C.
(33:24):
So I'm just going tointentionally not go there and
I'm going to intentionally turnup the volume on B.
I don't have B in my talk type,but I can access it.
It's in the shadows there.
Let me pull some out, let meask him how his weekend was.
It's not what I do, naturally,but let me go for it.
(33:47):
So it helps us to intentionallykind of make our interactions
intentional instead ofcoincidental.
And what that does is itimproves our connections, makes
the other person feel connectedin a way that they wouldn't have
(34:12):
probably otherwise, and then wecan fast forward, reduce the
time between the learning curve,I guess, so that we're already
we can hit the ground running,so to speak, wherever we go.
Josh Porthouse (34:31):
You know, I heard that having a, we can hit
the ground running, so to speak,wherever we go.
You know, I heard that having acall it, in a manner of
speaking, a bunch of littlethings to pay attention to is
sort of the mark of the amateur.
Understanding all of the littlethings you need to do to where
it becomes muscle memory and youcan effectively prioritize, is
the mark of master.
And that was a sports analogy,but I think it fits the same
(34:53):
here.
And if I hadn't said sports,nobody would have known the
difference.
Amanda Kenderes (34:57):
Oh, absolutely.
Josh Porthouse (34:59):
Going to the new school, going to the new job,
going to a new family, you're astep parent, you're a meeting,
you're whatever spouses, parent,in-laws for the first time,
whatever it is all the firsttimes in a social circumstance.
I think it makes a hugedifference.
Everything you're describingright now and having that kind
of stability, I think helpsalleviate a lot of the little
(35:22):
things and so we don't have tostress as much about who we are
in the situation or in themoment or who we need to be in
the moment, just being in themoment, and I think that makes
all the difference.
Amanda Kenderes (35:35):
Absolutely, and we don't take um personally as
personally other people who arejust being themselves too.
So it gives us kind of the yeah, um, the the freedom and
confidence to be ourselves.
Yeah, the freedom and confidenceto be ourselves, yeah, but it
also allows other.
We extend grace to other peoplewho are just being themselves.
(35:56):
I talk in the book about A, band C bombs, what I call
conversation bombs, where somepeople you know will shut down,
they'll make a joke to shut downa type of talk that's happening
, that they don't want to happenanymore.
You know, and if I were talkingto my BA boss and I and I was
doing some C and getting kind ofheartfelt and he was getting
(36:18):
uncomfortable and he made a jokelike oh gosh, it's starting to
sound like therapy in here,somebody make it, you know.
And and he tried to shut downthe talk, if I didn't know about
the talk type model and whathis talk type was, I, I, I might
feel hurt Like gosh, he doesn'tcare.
(36:40):
Um, you know, this is importantto me and or push it, or push
it.
Josh Porthouse (36:46):
Yeah.
Amanda Kenderes (36:46):
And and.
Now that I know about it, I cansay okay, he's a BA, yeah, he's
uncomfortable with C and that'sthe best way he knows how to
handle it.
Okay, I'll cut him some slack,you know.
Josh Porthouse (37:01):
It's powerful.
Amanda Kenderes (37:02):
It's powerful.
Josh Porthouse (37:04):
Wow Well.
So let me ask you this then,and for the sake of time I think
this may be one of my last twoor three questions for you, but
knowing all of these things,going through your life to this
point, professionally,personally, however, you want to
apply it what has it done foryou?
I mean, you mentioned youweren't a loner before, but you
(37:26):
weren't quite in the mix, youknow.
So what has it done now foryour own sense of self and
self-worth?
Amanda Kenderes (37:34):
It's given me over the years a deep, grounded
sense of self I've come to inthe best possible way.
I've come to love myself more,and not in an egoistic sense,
just in a very kind sense.
I think we can be unkind toourselves, um, sometimes, and um
(37:57):
you know, we are often our ourown worst critic, and it's it's
helped me to be kind to myself,um, to accept things as they are
, which is huge because if wedon't resist what is, then we
can be present.
And it's helped me to makebetter decisions.
(38:21):
Now I've made my share ofdecisions that I would go back
and change if I could just likeanybody.
But the more that I see theapplications of the talk type
model in my own life, the more Irealize how it can be used for
(38:43):
decision-making.
And again, I experimented as achild and I continue to
experiment in my life now.
And it is powerful.
It can be powerful fordecision-making, for everything
from the movie that we choose towatch to the person we choose
to marry.
Josh Porthouse (39:19):
Idaleo is well known for saying that the
quality of our life dependsboils down to the quality of our
decisions.
Amanda Kenderes (39:22):
I like that, and so I have been able to make
better decisions and when Idon't make, a very good decision
it's helped me to extend graceto myself.
Josh Porthouse (39:34):
Well, that's a powerful point too, isn't it?
It gives you the opportunity toprocess.
Amanda Kenderes (39:40):
Yeah.
Josh Porthouse (39:42):
Wow, okay.
So let me ask you this.
We've spent a lot of thisconversation talking about your
book.
Where do people go to get it?
How do people find out about it?
What are the options?
Amanda Kenderes (39:55):
They can go to Amazon and get the book Barnes
Noble as well.
Talktypescom andamandacanderescom If they want
to get in touch with me directly.
That would be the way.
It's a little form on there.
Josh Porthouse (40:07):
just fill it out and then we can be in touch
well, uh, first of all, foranybody who's new to this show
or has been watching thisconversation, uh, depending on
the player you're streaming thisconversation on, you can click
the drop down arrow for see more, or show more, depending on
what it says, and in thedescription you'll see links to
(40:28):
amandacanderescom and to Amazon,and so you can track down
Amanda's book as well and thenreach out and get in touch and
if that's easier for you, do it.
That's why it's there.
Amanda, I love thisconversation, I love this topic,
and I got to tell you since wefirst started talking give or
take about a month ago I can'tsay it enough how accurate your
(40:52):
assessment was in that book, or,at least in my case, how
accurate it's been.
So I appreciate your insightand the conversation and this
opportunity to talk, but alsothe fact that you actually
distilled it down in a mannerthat was easy to understand and
wrote it down so that I couldget it out of your head.
Put it on my shelf.
And wrote it down so that Icould get it out of your head.
(41:13):
Put it on my shelf.
Amanda Kenderes (41:18):
So I really appreciate the opportunity from
a few different aspects.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, I really appreciate thatand I do.
I look help to unlock just someinsight and vision for one
person or another person.
It means the world to me, sothank you.
Josh Porthouse (41:40):
Absolutely, absolutely, for everybody.
Obviously, listening to thisconversation or watching it, in
this case, you can go to ourwebsite,
transactingvalueppodcastcom, andyou can listen to all of our
other conversations as well.
But here's what you're going tofind on the homepage and this
is pretty special In the topright-hand corner is a button
that says Leave a Voicemail.
Now, when you click on it, it'stwo minutes of talk time in
(42:02):
whatever style you prefer, andit's all yours.
But let me make arecommendation Let us know what
you think of the show, give ussome feedback.
Let us know about the content,the topics, the questions,
insight.
Right, give us some feedback.
But also let Amanda know whatyou think of the book, about the
topics, any points ofcontention, anything you think
where she may be wrong.
(42:23):
I'm willing to bet she's goingto debate it with you if you
give her the opportunity.
So talk through it a little bit, but put it in your voicemail
and we can forward the audiofile over to her as well.
It's a pretty powerfulmechanism, so please take
advantage of it.
But otherwise, amanda, againthank you for your time, thank
you for this opportunity, and Ireally do appreciate it.
(42:44):
So I can't say that enough.
Absolute pleasure absolutepleasure, absolutely and for
everybody else.
Thank you, guys for tuning inand staying with us through the
conversation and we'll see youagain next time.
So until then, that wasTransacting Value.
Thank you to our show partnersand folks.
Thank you for tuning in andappreciating our value as we all
(43:05):
grow through life together.
To check out our otherconversations or even to
contribute through feedback,follows, time, money or talent
and to let us know what youthink of the show, please leave
a review on our website,transactingvaluepodcastcom.
We also stream new episodesevery Monday at 9 am Eastern
Standard Time through all ofyour favorite podcasting
platforms like Spotify, iheartand TuneIn.
(43:27):
You can now hear TransactingValue on Wreaths Across America
radio.
Head to wreathsacrossamericaorg.
Slash transactingvalue tosponsor a wreath and remember,
honor and teach the value offreedom for future generations.
On behalf of our team and ourglobal ambassadors, as you all
strive to establish clarity andpurpose, ensure social
(43:48):
tranquility and secure theblessings of liberty or
individual sovereignty ofcharacter for yourselves and
your posterity, we will continueinstigating self-worth and
we'll meet you there Until nexttime.
That was Transacting Value.
The views expressed in this podcast are
solely those of the podcast hostand guest and do not
necessarily represent those ofour distribution partners,
supporting businessrelationships or supported
audience.
Welcome to Transacting Value,where we talk about practical
(00:22):
applications for instigatingself-worth when dealing with
each other and even withinourselves, where we foster a
podcast listening experiencethat lets you hear the power of
a value system for managingburnout, establishing boundaries
, fostering community andfinding identity.
My name is Josh Porthouse, I'myour host and we are redefining
sovereignty of character.
(00:42):
This is why values still holdvalue.
This is Transacting Value.
Amanda Kenderes (00:49):
For social anxiety.
When we have a combination of aboosted confidence plus an
extended vocabulary to help usunderstand and navigate talk and
social interactions, weapproach the situation from a
very different place.
Josh Porthouse (01:08):
Today on Transacting Value.
What if you could find identityand manage anxiety, all by
framing how you speak?
Professor of social sciencesand author of how what we Say
Reveals who we Are.
And author of how what we SayReveals who we Are.
Dr Amanda Kanderis says it'snot only possible, it's
(01:35):
teachable.
And because our values arewoven into our talk types, we're
going to talk all about it.
I'm Josh Porthouse, I'm yourhost and from SDYT Media.
This is Transacting Value,amanda how you doing.
Amanda Kenderes (01:44):
Hey, josh, so good to be here.
Thank you for having me.
Josh Porthouse (01:48):
Absolutely, absolutely.
I appreciate you taking timeout of your schedule.
I see you're not necessarily atoffice hours right now, so you
got some time off today, orwhat's going on?
Amanda Kenderes (02:00):
Yeah, wednesdays are good for me right
now, but you know that changesevery semester.
Josh Porthouse (02:05):
Yeah, I bet, I bet, we got the holidays coming
up now, at least as of thisrecording.
Amanda Kenderes (02:12):
So looking forward to a break.
Oh, don't we all.
It's so nice to just be able tounwind, and I love Christmas
time.
I really do.
It just takes me back to mychildhood and I love it.
I love every moment of it.
Josh Porthouse (02:27):
Now you, from what I understand, traveled a
lot.
Speaking of your childhood, Ithink it was for your dad's work
, if I remember what we spokeabout.
So let's just start there,because you've got a lot of
interwoven complexity throughoutyour story and I think it's
(02:49):
going to speak pretty heavilytowards some of these topics
about values and talk types andhow people communicate
effectively.
So let's just start there for acouple minutes.
Who are you, where are you fromand what sort of things are
fueling your perspective onsocial sciences and why it's
important?
Amanda Kenderes (03:01):
Yeah, so, yeah, some big questions.
Um, who am I?
Uh, yeah, well, depends.
There's so many ways to answerthat.
Right, this is a continuallyevolving answer.
But I grew up internationally.
Uh, you're right, it was mydad's job.
He, he worked for the usembassy, and so I grew up in
(03:23):
north and South America, asia,africa, europe.
Every three years, my familymoved to a new continent, so
really the only constant waschange in a really big way.
And so I realized that if I wasgoing to have an enjoyable time
(03:44):
in any one place, I was goingto need to learn to connect
quickly.
And I asked myself you knowwell how do we connect through
talk.
So what happened, just by virtueof my situation, is I became a
student of communication,because if I could talk better,
(04:08):
I could connect better.
So I started to try outdifferent kinds of talk with
people.
See what works, try, you know,try what I liked, try to learn
what others liked.
And the more I experimented,the more questions I developed,
(04:32):
and over the years I ended upinitially I had more questions
than answers, as it goes, butthen I ended up developing the
talk type model as an answer toall the questions, the
collection of the questions thatI had asked for 15 years, and
(04:55):
some of these questions were youknow, why is it that we can
walk into a crowded room, starta conversation with somebody and
just connect really easily,lose a sense of time An hour can
go by and we're so engaged andinterested.
And then, with somebody else, ittakes work to think of things
(05:19):
to say and to keep theconversation going.
Why is that?
Well, maybe the person that wetalked to for the hour.
They're just really easy totalk to, okay, but then why
doesn't this other person alsofind them easy to talk to?
Because they don't.
Why is this person laughing atmy joke, but not that one?
(05:41):
Why do we have differentpreferences in books or movies?
Why do we have different tastesin music?
So, basically, any area wherethat communication touch, I
questioned it.
I mean, that's virtually everyarea, from direct speech and
(06:02):
conversation to reading, writing, even Braille and sign language
, music, podcasts, movies andbody language, tone of voice,
all those you know calledpara-language.
So yeah, after all of thisobservation and experimentation,
(06:26):
I realized that really, peopleonly talk for three reasons,
three fundamental reasons.
That is it.
And the reason that we havedifferent, that we connect with
people differentially is becausewe may or we may not share a
preference.
(06:47):
We may not rank those threereasons the same.
When we do rank them bypreference, we get six talk
types.
There are six ways to rankthree variables.
Josh Porthouse (06:59):
Six ways to rank everybody.
Amanda Kenderes (07:02):
Yeah To every variable.
Josh Porthouse (07:04):
Three variables what do you mean?
Let's start there.
What are you talking about?
Amanda Kenderes (07:08):
So are the three ways of the three reasons
for talking.
We talked for three reasons.
Fundamentally, all peopleacross the globe, and I refer to
these three ways in different,or these three reasons in
different ways.
So in shorthand, I call them A,b and C.
We can also call them informing, relating and meaning-making.
(07:30):
And technically, a is objectiveunderstanding, b is subjective
experiencing and C is subjectiveunderstanding.
Those are the technical terms.
But these three reasons fortalking, when we rank them by
preference, we end up with sixtalk types, which is our home
(07:55):
base.
They're like archetypes thatjust showcase what we like.
So, yeah, three communicationstyles, or six communication
styles, as it were.
So some people prefer factualtalk, some people prefer
relating, where they ask youknow, how was your weekend, what
did you do?
(08:15):
Did you have fun?
And other people prefer thedeep, you know meaning of life,
questions or personal growth,that kind of stuff, and we don't
like them all the same,incidentally.
And when we look at them, yeah,it's a predictor of connection.
It's also a predictor ofpotential conflict.
(08:39):
There's a lot there, but that'sjust the start.
Josh Porthouse (08:43):
Alrighty, folks sit tight, We'll be right back
on Transacting Value.
Join us for Transacting Value,where we discuss practical
applications of personal values,every Monday at 9am on our
websitetransactingvaluepodcastcom,
Wednesdays at 5pm and Sundays atnoon on wreathsacrossamericaorg
slash radio at noon onwreathsacrossamericaorg slash
(09:09):
radio.
Amanda Kenderes (09:10):
When we look at them, yeah, it's a predictor of
connection.
It's also a predictor ofpotential conflict.
There's a lot there, but that'sjust the start.
Yeah.
Josh Porthouse (09:17):
Yeah, okay, but this is you at I don't know 15
years old, let's say, trying tofigure out how to put those
concepts into these words, andthen, over the last I don't know
15 years old, let's say, tryingto figure out how to put those
concepts into these words, andthen, over the last I'm assuming
15 to 25 years, you figure itout and you put it in a book.
Well, what does it?
Do you know what I mean?
Knowledge without application,I think, tends to be a waste of
(09:40):
your time, right, and so youidentify these things, but did
it help you have conversations,or help you make friends or
start relationships, or was itmore content that just happened
to be accurate?
Amanda Kenderes (09:59):
Well, I mean, I guess the honest answer is I
think it's both A lot of timeswe're searching for answers to
questions and we honestly don'tknow what all the applications
are going to be.
It's sort of like the laser.
The laser now has God onlyknows how many applications you
(10:20):
know in medicine, in science, ineducation, I mean in.
You know in medicine andscience in education, I mean in
auto mechanics.
I mean you could just fill inthe blank aerospace, engineering
, whatever.
But when the laser first cameout, nobody knew what to do with
it.
In fact it was nicknamed thesolution looking for a problem.
Josh Porthouse (10:44):
Interesting.
Amanda Kenderes (10:45):
Yeah, so sometimes when new models,
theories, innovations,inventions come out, people
don't immediately know what todo with them.
I think that that's fair andthose applications can reveal
themselves over time.
Now, that said, I have had sometime, but it's been my own
(11:14):
personal interaction with thetalk type model and the
experiences that I have with itand the applications I've been
able to use it for may bedifferent from what many other
people.
You know their experience, andso time will tell.
But for me, the first thingthat it did for me was to help
(11:37):
me to feel a sense of belonging.
This was a major shift for me,longing.
This was a major shift for mebecause I really loved deep
talks.
So I would just, you know, Ifigured why, why bother with the
(12:00):
small talk?
Let's just skip the small talkand go straight to the deep talk
.
So on the playground inelementary school, I would be
asking the kids, my peers, abouttheir home lives and how happy
oh, I was not.
Yeah, I figured, once you godown the slide, once you know
(12:22):
what it's like.
So I preferred to sit in theshade under the wooden
playground set and just haveconversations with people.
I was that kid that just likedto observe.
I wasn't a loner.
I had friends, but the friendsthat I tended to make, because
(12:45):
most of the kids around medidn't really love these kinds
of talks.
I just ended up learning whatthey like to do and going along
with it, and it was fine, it wasacceptable, but I knew that it
wasn't fully me.
It was fine, it was, it wasacceptable, but I knew that it
(13:07):
wasn't fully me.
After I tried this out with thekids on the playground um, you
know, jump into the deep talks Ithought, well, maybe this isn't
for kids, maybe this is more ofa grownup thing.
So I tried it out with some ofthe grownups in my life.
So, um, teachers, parents, uh,well, my parents, I, um, my dad
was was my deep talk buddy, butoutside of home, parents,
coaches, bus drivers, this sortof thing and I would jump right
(13:30):
in with them and I would askquestions like what's happiness?
And if they were married, Iwould ask how did you know you'd
found the one as a kid?
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
How did you know you'd foundthe one?
Was it a kid?
No, oh yeah, oh yeah, oh.
That was I mean from elementaryschool on.
(13:54):
So it didn't go over super wellwith the adults and I actually
got really down because Ithought, well, gee, if this
isn't, you know, deep talks,it's not for kids, most kids.
I mean it's for me, I'm a kid,but okay, it's not for most kids
.
And most of the adults that Italked to weren't into it either
(14:17):
.
Now, granted, this is from myown limited kind of perspective.
Maybe those adults would havebeen more inclined to have those
conversations with anotheradult.
Maybe you know part of what wasyou know in inhibiting that was
that I was eight years old andthey didn't know how to.
So so that could have beenhappening.
(14:38):
But in my in it, from myvantage point, with my logic, I
thought there, I thought there'sno space for me, I don't belong
here, and I ended up just kindof performing my way through the
rest of elementary school,middle school, high school and
(15:00):
finally, at 19, I had anargument with my dad that ended
up leading to the epiphany ofthe talk types.
Josh Porthouse (15:10):
An argument did.
Amanda Kenderes (15:13):
Sometimes it's those negative things that end
up being your best kind ofpositive.
Yeah Turned into a positivemoment.
Josh Porthouse (15:22):
Well, so here's something for you that I haven't
told you yet.
You and I first spoke I don'tremember exactly call it a month
ago, and since then I wentthrough your book and for
anybody listening to this orwatching this conversation, I
have no reason to tell you itwas good, except for the fact it
(15:44):
was.
I've never met you outside ofthese conversations.
I don't know you personally.
You know what I mean.
So this is about as objectivean unbiased opinion I can give
you.
It's probably the most accuratething I've ever read and then
inadvertently, unwittingly, putinto practice that actually
applies accurately.
Put into practice that actuallyapplies accurately.
(16:08):
Everybody I've talked to overthe last month has so far fit
very well into your categoriesand what it's done for me.
You mentioned belonging.
I didn't really care to belonginto any of these conversations
or relationships, which was partof the problem I started to
zone out.
But the more I started to pickup on the pattern of, okay, wait
(16:28):
a minute, this is a little bitmore subjective but not quite as
deep.
Or this small talk maybe that Ithought was, I don't know
impertinent, happened to be alittle bit more objective than
what I was prepared to talkabout.
It gave me a minute to reorienthow I was perceiving the
conversation and develop somepatience and some insight and
(16:51):
humility, I guess, and get overmy own ego.
So from that point first,before we go any further, I
think you're onto something.
I think it was pretty accurate.
Amanda Kenderes (17:04):
Thank you.
Josh Porthouse (17:05):
You're welcome, but that brings me to my next
question.
That's just my experience,right?
So, understanding what wetalked about a little bit
earlier, understanding that howpeople talk or, more
specifically, how what we saycan reveal who we are, not who,
or how other people speak andtalk, or who they are, what does
it do for us as the individual,better understanding how we
(17:28):
prefer to speak?
How does that help us developan identity or control over
ourselves?
Amanda Kenderes (17:37):
Yeah, so there's so much here to unpack.
But first of all, we couldstart out with the idea that, um
, communication is how weinterface with the world.
So if we have a betterunderstanding of communication,
we have a better understandingof any area of life that
(18:02):
communication touches, which isvirtually everything, from our
interpersonal conversations andrelationships to, uh, from our
(18:25):
interpersonal conversations andrelationships to our coworkers
and colleagues to work, to thepeople we meet on the
preferences, our sense of humor,our sense of how we define what
it means to be known, to knowand be known to understand and
to be understood.
You know the activities wedelight in, how we spend our
leisure time, how we recuperatewhen we're tired, emotionally,
(18:50):
physically, psychologically,what energizes us and gives us,
brings us joy.
All of these areas are touchedby the talk types and more,
because communication finds usin each of those areas.
(19:11):
So let's take an example thethree communication categories,
abc, so informing, relating,meaning, making.
We can think of that as factualtalk, maybe small talk and deep
talk.
Just you know if we want toreally kind of give it an easy
(19:36):
nickname.
And but these threecommunication categories are
really drives, three differentdrives.
Drives, three different drives.
(19:57):
What drives us to talk isactually a deeper drive of what
are we looking for in life, whydo we do what we do?
So if you have A in your talktype, objective understanding,
informing, factual talk we havethat we're looking to
objectively understand and to beobjectively understood when we
(20:18):
listen.
So this not only impacts how wetalk but how we listen to
others.
Josh Porthouse (20:22):
Well, that's interesting.
All right, folks, sit tight andwe'll be right back on
Transacting Value.
Ad (20:29):
Tampa Bay sun-kissed beaches , a thriving art scene and a
community that embracesdiversity.
It's more than just a place tolive.
It's a lifestyle.
At Porthouse Tampa Bay Realtor,I understand that finding the
right home is about more thanjust square footage.
It's about finding the rightcharacter, culture and community
.
It's about finding a placewhere you can truly belong
(20:58):
Alongside a network ofexperienced marketers,
inspectors, realtors and lenders.
We're not just experts in theTampa Bay market.
We are your neighbors and we'repassionate about helping you
find the perfect place to callhome.
Follow along on YouTube,facebook and LinkedIn at
Porthouse Tampa Bay Realtor.
Porthouse, tampa Bay Realtor,where values start in the home.
Amanda Kenderes (21:17):
So if you have A in your talk type objective
understanding, informing factualtalk, we have that we're
looking to objectivelyunderstand and to be objectively
understood when we listen.
So this not only impacts how wetalk but how we listen to
others.
Josh Porthouse (21:36):
Well, that's interesting.
Amanda Kenderes (21:38):
We're listening for factual information anytime
people are talking.
And if somebody's doing smalltalk or talking about oh, this
is my favorite movie and I findit so funny in this scene when
this happens Well, there's noreal facts there for that person
(22:00):
to take in, it's justsomebody's opinion, subjective
experience.
Yeah, there's no objectivefacts there.
So it would be easy for thatperson, the A, to just kind of
check out if, if they're notintentional and aware of this
talk type model, they might justcheck out and that would be, um
(22:22):
, it would be unfortunatebecause the, the B, who's doing
the small talk, is trying toconnect yeah, same thing you
know, with with the, with the C,if we skip to the sea, um,
they're looking to subjectivelyunderstand.
So they're looking for the deepquestions and answers.
Um, you know what really doeslead to our growth as human
(22:46):
beings?
And, and sometimes it'schallenges, often it's
challenges.
But can joy also lead to ourgrowth?
These fascinating conversations?
There's no, maybe objective wayto measure some of that stuff.
(23:07):
That's the trouble with thesocial sciences.
So we try to understand itsubjectively as best we can.
That's C, and these folks arelistening for those reasons.
Now, if we think about A and Cas wanting to understand and be
understood.
(23:28):
What's A and C, what's B, bs,the, the relators, you know, who
are into small talk or sharingtheir experiences.
They aren't trying to make adeeper come to a draw deeper
conclusions and come to a deepunderstanding.
They're they're looking to beheard.
That's it.
(23:48):
They want to witness for whatthey're saying.
One of the things that I justlove about what this model does
for us is that it shifts us awayfrom some of the old, tired
models of communication thatwe've grown up with and we've
been taught in the classrooms.
And one of the things that wehear over and over is if you
(24:11):
want to be a bettercommunication, if you want to
improve your communication,what's one of the number one
rules?
Don't interrupt.
But here's the thing that onlyreally applies to bees, because
their objective, their goal fortalking is to be heard.
So, yeah, interrupting isantithetical to being heard.
(24:34):
And if you interrupt a, b,they're probably going to think
that you don't care or thatyou're not listening.
But if your goal isn't to beheard, it's to be understood.
So, in other words, a's and C'sIf somebody interrupts you to
say, hey, wait a minute, Ididn't quite catch that.
Could you explain that beforewe move on?
(24:55):
I'm not upset at all if I'm anA or C.
I'm thankful that I gotinterrupted, actually because
now the interruption is workingto further the objective or the
top goal and it helps me to seethat we're actually on the same
page.
Josh Porthouse (25:14):
Okay, all right, so I can appreciate there's a
little bit of a valuesproposition behind some of the
concepts, let's call it.
But we had also talked a littlebit earlier about how it can
better manage social anxietiesas well, and there's all sorts
of what would you call them, allsorts of catalysts or causes or
(25:38):
triggers.
I guess for any of this anxietyto come up right, it could be
an unfamiliar situation.
It could be unfamiliar anything, I guess Situation, people,
topics, whatever.
What does it do for that?
Amanda Kenderes (25:51):
Yeah, no social anxiety, it whatever.
What does it do for that?
Yeah, no, social anxiety.
It's huge and it's particularlysalient these days so many
people seem to be having.
Especially after COVID, it just, you know, the anxiety just
kind of went up exponentially.
So one of the reasons that wemay have social anxiety, or
(26:12):
anxiety in general, is we don'tknow what's going to happen, we
don't know what to prepare for,and it's that unknown and that's
scary.
But here's the thing how do wetackle unknowing?
We tackle unknowing by knowing.
(26:34):
That's the antidote.
If we don't know something,well then if we could just know
it, we could relax a little bitmore.
You know, if somebody isfinancially stressed but I said,
hey, you know, you're going toget $1,000 next week by Friday,
or $10,000 or whatever they need, oh, okay, oh, now, all of a
(26:55):
sudden, let's go have a sandwich, right?
So I think one of the thingsthat with social anxiety and
what's involved in socialrelationships talk,
communication, interaction.
So if we can understand, talkbetter, then we can navigate it
better and we're replacingunknown with you know, unknowing
(27:18):
, with knowing, and that's huge.
The other thing that it does isit validates us in that context
.
So it validates us in the senseof like as a kid, when I didn't
feel like I belongedcommunicationally.
Then I realized, oh my gosh,there's this, there's this talk
type model.
(27:39):
I've had kind of internalizedthe message that something was
wrong with me growing up andthat there was this kind of
right way of talking that I justdidn't fit into.
But when I unpacked, when Isort of discovered this talk
type model, I realized, oh, waita minute, there isn't one right
way of talking, or one normalway of talking, as it were.
(28:02):
There are six normal ways oftalking and I'm one of them and
that's okay.
And when that happens we boostour confidence For social
anxiety.
When we have a combination of aboosted confidence plus an
extended vocabulary to help usunderstand and navigate talk and
(28:26):
social interactions, weapproach the situation from a
very different place.
Josh Porthouse (28:34):
Yeah, it sounds like it and then controlling the
chaos I guess you mentioned theunknowns and then the knowing
or the knowns and trying toidentify these sort of footholds
in social circumstances.
And we've talked a lot aboutkids.
Footholds in socialcircumstances, you know, and
(28:54):
we've talked a lot about kids.
Obviously it's not specific toage or gender or ethnicity or
any of those things, they'rejust natural human tendencies, I
guess preferences forcommunicating more effectively.
But do you think there's anyapplication to that
professionally?
I don't mean as a professorspecifically, strictly speaking,
I mean like in an occupationalenvironment, to say, for example
(29:18):
, here's a good example I have alot of friends who have put in
20 years, 25 years in a federalposition or in the Department of
Defense, and then they get outand they're left to their own
devices, defense, and then theyget out and they're left to
their own devices.
But you can't communicate thesame way in Walmart, necessarily
, or with your familynecessarily, that you can in the
(29:39):
infantry or, like in my case,in the Marine Corps, almost writ
large.
I can't take that sort ofconversational style really
anywhere.
So what's the relevance there?
You start to identify some ofthese things, but then what do
you do with the application?
How can it help?
How can we use it?
Amanda Kenderes (30:01):
So we have at work here, we have talk types,
six talk types, which areuniversal, and then these six
talk types are interacting withother systems and frameworks.
So I was raised, you know, with, with a parent working for the
U S embassy, so so we were alsofederally employed and and I, I
(30:23):
know, you know, we, weinteracted with Marines, army,
Um, and yeah, there are going tobe there.
There are definitely differentways of interacting within these
groups and it's the same whenyou're retired, interacting with
your friends or at other jobsand other positions, certain
(30:46):
white collar jobs, or banking,or construction, you name it.
Every vocation has its owncultural standards, policies,
expectations and so on.
But within those otherframeworks we still have the six
(31:09):
talk types.
Those don't change.
Josh Porthouse (31:12):
All right, folks , sit tight and we'll be right
back on Transacting Value.
Ad (31:18):
Imagine a little lady who wouldn't give up her seat on the
bus, a TV host who wanted to beyour neighbor, or an inventor
whose 10,000 failures didn'tstop him.
These vivid images all sharethe same caption inspiration.
These people just did theirbest and they inspire us.
(31:38):
Now what will you do to inspireothers?
Inspiration is in you.
From PassItOncom.
Amanda Kenderes (31:48):
Every vocation has its own cultural standards,
policies, expectations and so on.
But within those otherframeworks we still have the six
talk types.
Those don't change.
So we're going to beinteracting with the same six
(32:08):
talk types wherever we go.
The difference isn't going tobe the talk types that we
interact with, it's going to bethe culture of the organization
that we're working for, theenvironment.
That's what's going to bedifferent.
So if we can learn these sixtalk types, at the very least
(32:33):
now we can navigate any.
You know we can navigatedifferent environments.
We can limit the new thingsthat we have to learn and figure
out and we can reduce the timeit takes to connect with people
within those environments.
So if I know that, okay, say, Istart a new job somewhere, I get
(32:58):
to know my boss.
I know the talk types, get toknow my boss just a little bit
and I can tell okay, he's a BA.
Well, now I know, okay, I'm aCA.
I lead with the deep stuff back.
Second, he doesn't have C inhis talk type.
He's probably going to beuncomfortable if I try to do C.
(33:24):
So I'm just going tointentionally not go there and
I'm going to intentionally turnup the volume on B.
I don't have B in my talk type,but I can access it.
It's in the shadows there.
Let me pull some out, let meask him how his weekend was.
It's not what I do, naturally,but let me go for it.
(33:47):
So it helps us to intentionallykind of make our interactions
intentional instead ofcoincidental.
And what that does is itimproves our connections, makes
the other person feel connectedin a way that they wouldn't have
(34:12):
probably otherwise, and then wecan fast forward, reduce the
time between the learning curve,I guess, so that we're already
we can hit the ground running,so to speak, wherever we go.
Josh Porthouse (34:31):
You know, I heard that having a, we can hit
the ground running, so to speak,wherever we go.
You know, I heard that having acall it, in a manner of
speaking, a bunch of littlethings to pay attention to is
sort of the mark of the amateur.
Understanding all of the littlethings you need to do to where
it becomes muscle memory and youcan effectively prioritize, is
the mark of master.
And that was a sports analogy,but I think it fits the same
(34:53):
here.
And if I hadn't said sports,nobody would have known the
difference.
Amanda Kenderes (34:57):
Oh, absolutely.
Josh Porthouse (34:59):
Going to the new school, going to the new job,
going to a new family, you're astep parent, you're a meeting,
you're whatever spouses, parent,in-laws for the first time,
whatever it is all the firsttimes in a social circumstance.
I think it makes a hugedifference.
Everything you're describingright now and having that kind
of stability, I think helpsalleviate a lot of the little
(35:22):
things and so we don't have tostress as much about who we are
in the situation or in themoment or who we need to be in
the moment, just being in themoment, and I think that makes
all the difference.
Amanda Kenderes (35:35):
Absolutely, and we don't take um personally as
personally other people who arejust being themselves too.
So it gives us kind of the yeah, um, the the freedom and
confidence to be ourselves.
Yeah, the freedom and confidenceto be ourselves, yeah, but it
also allows other.
We extend grace to other peoplewho are just being themselves.
(35:56):
I talk in the book about A, band C bombs, what I call
conversation bombs, where somepeople you know will shut down,
they'll make a joke to shut downa type of talk that's happening
, that they don't want to happenanymore.
You know, and if I were talkingto my BA boss and I and I was
doing some C and getting kind ofheartfelt and he was getting
(36:18):
uncomfortable and he made a jokelike oh gosh, it's starting to
sound like therapy in here,somebody make it, you know.
And and he tried to shut downthe talk, if I didn't know about
the talk type model and whathis talk type was, I, I, I might
feel hurt Like gosh, he doesn'tcare.
(36:40):
Um, you know, this is importantto me and or push it, or push
it.
Josh Porthouse (36:46):
Yeah.
Amanda Kenderes (36:46):
And and.
Now that I know about it, I cansay okay, he's a BA, yeah, he's
uncomfortable with C and that'sthe best way he knows how to
handle it.
Okay, I'll cut him some slack,you know.
Josh Porthouse (37:01):
It's powerful.
Amanda Kenderes (37:02):
It's powerful.
Josh Porthouse (37:04):
Wow Well.
So let me ask you this then,and for the sake of time I think
this may be one of my last twoor three questions for you, but
knowing all of these things,going through your life to this
point, professionally,personally, however, you want to
apply it what has it done foryou?
I mean, you mentioned youweren't a loner before, but you
(37:26):
weren't quite in the mix, youknow.
So what has it done now foryour own sense of self and
self-worth?
Amanda Kenderes (37:34):
It's given me over the years a deep, grounded
sense of self I've come to inthe best possible way.
I've come to love myself more,and not in an egoistic sense,
just in a very kind sense.
I think we can be unkind toourselves, um, sometimes, and um
(37:57):
you know, we are often our ourown worst critic, and it's it's
helped me to be kind to myself,um, to accept things as they are
, which is huge because if wedon't resist what is, then we
can be present.
And it's helped me to makebetter decisions.
(38:21):
Now I've made my share ofdecisions that I would go back
and change if I could just likeanybody.
But the more that I see theapplications of the talk type
model in my own life, the more Irealize how it can be used for
(38:43):
decision-making.
And again, I experimented as achild and I continue to
experiment in my life now.
And it is powerful.
It can be powerful fordecision-making, for everything
from the movie that we choose towatch to the person we choose
to marry.
Josh Porthouse (39:19):
Idaleo is well known for saying that the
quality of our life dependsboils down to the quality of our
decisions.
Amanda Kenderes (39:22):
I like that, and so I have been able to make
better decisions and when Idon't make, a very good decision
it's helped me to extend graceto myself.
Josh Porthouse (39:34):
Well, that's a powerful point too, isn't it?
It gives you the opportunity toprocess.
Amanda Kenderes (39:40):
Yeah.
Josh Porthouse (39:42):
Wow, okay.
So let me ask you this.
We've spent a lot of thisconversation talking about your
book.
Where do people go to get it?
How do people find out about it?
What are the options?
Amanda Kenderes (39:55):
They can go to Amazon and get the book Barnes
Noble as well.
Talktypescom andamandacanderescom If they want
to get in touch with me directly.
That would be the way.
It's a little form on there.
Josh Porthouse (40:07):
just fill it out and then we can be in touch
well, uh, first of all, foranybody who's new to this show
or has been watching thisconversation, uh, depending on
the player you're streaming thisconversation on, you can click
the drop down arrow for see more, or show more, depending on
what it says, and in thedescription you'll see links to
(40:28):
amandacanderescom and to Amazon,and so you can track down
Amanda's book as well and thenreach out and get in touch and
if that's easier for you, do it.
That's why it's there.
Amanda, I love thisconversation, I love this topic,
and I got to tell you since wefirst started talking give or
take about a month ago I can'tsay it enough how accurate your
(40:52):
assessment was in that book, or,at least in my case, how
accurate it's been.
So I appreciate your insightand the conversation and this
opportunity to talk, but alsothe fact that you actually
distilled it down in a mannerthat was easy to understand and
wrote it down so that I couldget it out of your head.
Put it on my shelf.
And wrote it down so that Icould get it out of your head.
(41:13):
Put it on my shelf.
Amanda Kenderes (41:18):
So I really appreciate the opportunity from
a few different aspects.
Thank you so much.
Yeah, I really appreciate thatand I do.
I look help to unlock just someinsight and vision for one
person or another person.
It means the world to me, sothank you.
Josh Porthouse (41:40):
Absolutely, absolutely, for everybody.
Obviously, listening to thisconversation or watching it, in
this case, you can go to ourwebsite,
transactingvalueppodcastcom, andyou can listen to all of our
other conversations as well.
But here's what you're going tofind on the homepage and this
is pretty special In the topright-hand corner is a button
that says Leave a Voicemail.
Now, when you click on it, it'stwo minutes of talk time in
(42:02):
whatever style you prefer, andit's all yours.
But let me make arecommendation Let us know what
you think of the show, give ussome feedback.
Let us know about the content,the topics, the questions,
insight.
Right, give us some feedback.
But also let Amanda know whatyou think of the book, about the
topics, any points ofcontention, anything you think
where she may be wrong.
(42:23):
I'm willing to bet she's goingto debate it with you if you
give her the opportunity.
So talk through it a little bit, but put it in your voicemail
and we can forward the audiofile over to her as well.
It's a pretty powerfulmechanism, so please take
advantage of it.
But otherwise, amanda, againthank you for your time, thank
you for this opportunity, and Ireally do appreciate it.
(42:44):
So I can't say that enough.
Absolute pleasure absolutepleasure, absolutely and for
everybody else.
Thank you, guys for tuning inand staying with us through the
conversation and we'll see youagain next time.
So until then, that wasTransacting Value.
Thank you to our show partnersand folks.
Thank you for tuning in andappreciating our value as we all
(43:05):
grow through life together.
To check out our otherconversations or even to
contribute through feedback,follows, time, money or talent
and to let us know what youthink of the show, please leave
a review on our website,transactingvaluepodcastcom.
We also stream new episodesevery Monday at 9 am Eastern
Standard Time through all ofyour favorite podcasting
platforms like Spotify, iheartand TuneIn.
(43:27):
You can now hear TransactingValue on Wreaths Across America
radio.
Head to wreathsacrossamericaorg.
Slash transactingvalue tosponsor a wreath and remember,
honor and teach the value offreedom for future generations.
On behalf of our team and ourglobal ambassadors, as you all
strive to establish clarity andpurpose, ensure social
(43:48):
tranquility and secure theblessings of liberty or
individual sovereignty ofcharacter for yourselves and
your posterity, we will continueinstigating self-worth and
we'll meet you there Until nexttime.
That was Transacting Value.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com