Digital Ad Sales into Career Coaching | Karen Ozeri [38] - Transferable Skills

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Transferable skills, skills, skills, skills from Cacklemedia.
This is transferable skills. I'm Noah, Michigan, and today's
guest is Karen Ozeri, who sharesher skills journey from digital
ad sales into career coaching. I hope you enjoy, Karen.
Welcome to the show. Great to have you here.
Thank you so much. I'm happy to be here.

(00:20):
Me too. So in the beginning of your
career, were you in advertising or doing something completely
different? Actually, my first job out of
college was in national radio adsales.
I lasted with that for about a year and then switched over to
the ad agency side, and then I switched into ad sales within

(00:40):
the tech world. So everything that I did outside
of that small little radio stintwas all in digital, so Internet
and then I slowly migrated my way over to mobile, cell phones,
etcetera. You think you're a natural born
seller with sales what you want to focus on or was advertising?

(01:02):
That's a that's an interesting question.
So no, on sales ultimately why Igot into sales later, not the
radio specific sales job was formoney, quite honestly.
So I saw that a lot of the people that were on the other
side of the desk for me, right. I used to be the buyer.
And so the sellers were just earning exponential income and

(01:27):
working way less. And I couldn't quite understand
why the setup was the way that it was.
And I will say that once I got into sales, one of the things
that made me successful as a seller was that I had been in
the shoes of the people that I was selling to previously.

(01:47):
And so it was less about buy this were the best.
But I do think I had this sort of innate understanding of how
to speak to them, but also how to solve the problems and
position the stuff that we were selling as a relevant solution
to what they were looking for, whether that was personally or
professionally. Sales was never, it was never on

(02:10):
my radar in College in any way. I took a communications class
and that was the class that I enjoyed the most.
So I just decided that would be I think.
There's also a lot of people in college who take a long time to
figure out what they want their major to be, and there's
probably an even greater number of people who then switched

(02:32):
their career paths from whateverthat concentration was and what
their thought process was back then.
Yeah, absolutely. And in my work as a coach, I
work with people later in their career who it's been on their
radar for a long time of this question of what am I doing
here? And so that's the thing that I

(02:54):
help people navigate is OK. Like, this is what I picked back
at this time when I was this person.
And this is what interested me. We make decisions about our life
when we're so young, our brain isn't fully mature, developed
yet. And then we find ourselves 15
years later and this career path, doing this thing and

(03:17):
asking ourselves, why are we doing this?
Yeah, that's why I love your podcast.
I think it's very relatable to most people making choices
before you even know what you want or who you are.
You can always make new decisions today for tomorrow it
there's nothing wrong with changing.
In fact, I would compliment those people because they've
made an evaluation and said OK, I need something different and

(03:39):
I'm going to make that change even if it's hard, because
continuing down the same path without making the change, I
would assume in many cases is aneasier path.
Default is easier, but making a change requires and process and
execution. Yeah, yeah.
And it, it requires a sense of trust in the process and the

(04:00):
unfolding of it. That willingness to follow your
curiosity is a huge piece of figuring out what else you're
going to do. It's not linear and to the point
of your entire podcast, I believe in the work that I do
that there's so many clues in people's past about what it is
that they're meant to do next. And it's the things that they're

(04:25):
good at. It's the things that they
enjoyed doing. When I talk to clients, in my
mind, it's this visual of they'll be talking about things.
And I have this visual of a glowlike the earth at night, like an
aerial view of the earth at night.
And it's, oh, there's a flag that popped up.
There's a flag that popped up because there's so many clues.

(04:45):
It's just a matter of starting to find them and then weave them
and put them together. The three things I want to ask
you right now that you can answer in any way you want is,
first of all, explain for our audience listeners what you're
doing today, because we're already talking about your
current work. And the other thing is how much
of your own personal background in the services that you're
selling ads to that same clientele did you infuse into

(05:09):
the conversation when you're selling that ad space?
And then the third piece here ishow much of your clients
backgrounds do you explore and pick apart in order to tease out
the skills and strengths that they have acquired or
intrinsically naturally possessed in order to help them
find that path moving forward? So the work that I do today is

(05:29):
really focused on on supporting high achieving typically very
successful women typically with doing something new and more
fulfilling. What that sometimes looks like
initially is sort of like subtext to that is, is
supporting them with creating greater freedom, flexibility and

(05:53):
fulfillment. And fulfillment is part of the
initial feel, so to speak, but it's really about having people
re evaluate what they're doing and determining if they want to
make a pivot or if they're, mostof my clients do eventually do
something different. They leave.
But there's for some people it'slike a six month thing.

(06:14):
And then for other people it's athree to four year thing to make
that pivot. So it's also looking at like,
how can you create changes in the immediate term to give
yourself what you're looking fordown the road, And down the road
is the Holy Grail in some ways, but how can you have more
freedom and flexibility now? Would you mind exploring with me

(06:36):
a little further what you just described as the time period
that you distinguish between those that are it's pretty near
future, they're trying to make achange and it will only take a
few weeks, months and then the other side which is 3 to five
years. What is the distinguishing
differences between the two? Why?
Is that by choice? Or are they just two different

(06:57):
completely different profiles? That's a good question.
It's a really good question. I think a lot of it comes down
to readiness in terms of how much have they been in action
around this already? Like with some clients, I meet
them and they've been on this journey already and they're like

(07:19):
ready, ready. But you mean like then you have.
Other they've been thinking about it or they've been taking
physical, real action. Are they?
They've been thinking about thisfor a while.
They've been actually pursuing steps in order to make that
change happen. It's a good, it's a really good
question because I think at the end of the day, everyone's
different. There's no like clear trend that
I would say that I see on that. However, people who've been

(07:43):
taking action on their own and like trying to do stuff to
resolve the situation, but they're not getting the traction
that they want. Those are the people that are
closer in terms of readiness, like they're because they've
already decided that it's happening.
And then the people who are in that longer window, they know
that it's happening, but they'realso just not ready.

(08:05):
And what I see with a lot of those people who tend to be like
very senior in their careers is they're not ready because what
they perceive to be the outcome of change is such a drastic
change to their lifestyle that they just cannot wrap their head
around how that's going to happen.
It's like they're getting ready to be ready, which is what a

(08:26):
phrase that one of my friends coined.
But they just need time and theyalso need to build self trust
and they need to evaluate their finances.
And there's so many things that go into it.
And when you're working full time in particular, you just
don't have as much time to go out and explore, especially when
you're in these senior level jobs.

(08:47):
So it tends to be like a slower burn.
The opportunity that I get with my clients is to start to
address some of the habits or skills or ways of being that we
don't necessarily want to followthem into the new thing.
So if you're a workaholic, if you just leave one thing and go

(09:07):
to another, that pattern is going to follow you to the other
thing. So what I get to do with clients
who are on this longer term pathas we start to look at those
patterns and identify like how can you break this down?
How can you address this now where you are so that it doesn't
become this thing that you're displeased with later?

(09:28):
Because a lot of people will look at, oh, I work so much, I
work so much, that's the problem.
So they think that changing the career is the solution, but it's
act, it's not always the solution.
Sometimes the solution is why isit like what 6 layers down?
Like why are you working this hard in the 1st place and
addressing that as the root opportunity?

(09:50):
It's not an issue so much as it is an opportunity.
Does that make? Sense.
Does that make sense? Holy geez, what you just said
over the last four minutes couldbe a 10 part series that we do.
There isn't a thing that you just said that doesn't resonate
with me personally. Your take on people transferring
those bad habits and bad skills and bad behaviors from their

(10:14):
past job into their next one, and you helping them coach them
out of those bad habits and behaviors is very similar to any
kind of therapy or rehabilitation where you have to
analyze what didn't go well or what didn't feel right and what
can I do to improve my lifestylefor the next time.
That's very important. I've never heard anyone actually

(10:34):
talk about that when it comes tocareer changes.
So first of all, thank you for educating me on that.
That's pretty mind blowing for me and.
I have a thought. Do you want to?
Hear sure, please. It's like the opposite of it.
It could be like overwork, for example.
That's that could be a transferable skill, but that's

(10:56):
not the transferable skill that you want to take.
And when I think about this notion of overwork, one of the
things that I work on a lot withclients is they are amazing at
getting things done right. They're driven, they're
motivated, right? These are incredible skills, but

(11:19):
it's not an incredible skill when it means that you
prioritize work above everythingelse.
It's not an incredible skill when it comes at the cost of
your health, and so that's not something we want to transfer
from A to B if possible. You just, you just let a match
in this entire theory because ithadn't really occurred to me.

(11:42):
The obvious are the positive transferable skills.
I had yet, until this moment, toreally consider the risks of the
bad transferable skills. You don't want the transferable
skill to be the default of how you've been showing up in this
way that doesn't serve you. So how do you want to play?
And like really leaning into trusting yourself and what you

(12:03):
need in the same way that you can do it for a client, for
example. And so that's So what I tend to
reflect a lot to clients and I've seen it with myself too.
And my own story is that it's like learning to work in the
ways that you do for your clients, for yourself, and
dedicating your energy to you versus something that's outside

(12:28):
of you. So if you can be successful in
this area, like you can be successful in this.
Totally. It's a little obscure, but most
of the clients that I work with,part of the overwork was related
to having this bigger question of what am I doing with my life?
And so that's a big question, right?

(12:49):
To sit with what else could I do?
If it's not this, what am I doing?
And most of us are not taught tosit with big questions like
that. So what do we do?
We just go and get busy and we use busyness as a way to avoid
asking ourselves real, meaningful questions and facing
things that can often feel scaryor difficult.

(13:10):
And they may or may not be, but it feels that way inside of
ourselves. And I would say that a lot of
that, I know that intimately because that's what I did for
years and years I had, I thoughtabout what else can I do in my
career. It was 13 years before I did

(13:33):
anything about it. And that's not to say I didn't
try to do things right. I went from ad sales to the
agency. I went to a different agency.
I switched to ad sales, then I switched to mobile ad sales,
right? So there were pivots in there
that I thought were meaningful, but they were never really
addressing that underlying question of what am I meant to

(13:57):
be doing? And that experience, that of the
jumping of knowing that the patterns followed me wherever I
went, right? That was a real awakening when I
realized when I went to sales and I started, I was started
working just as hard as I had been on the agency side while
knowing that most people in sales didn't do that.

(14:18):
I remember looking around being like, oh, it's me, like I'm I'm
the person here. So that's more experience than
it is a skill, but that experience of having been
through the I have no idea what I'm going to do and taking a
leap of faith to figure it out. How did you figure that out?

(14:40):
What pushed you to realize that not just you, but this subject,
that yeah, you've changed jobs, but the subject was the same for
the most part? What what helped you realize
that you needed a bigger change?Yeah, I think there was it was a
multi layered process. The trigger for making a change

(15:02):
came when I had been working in sales.
I was the top salesperson globally at the company that I
was at. And I think it was the second or
third week of Q4 and I had two clients cancel huge contracts,
like they had budget cuts, huge contracts.

(15:24):
And I was just like, I thought Iwas ready to coast.
I was ready to focus on Q1 anyway, they cancelled.
So I went down from 90% booked for the quarter to 40% booked to
goal. And I was just, I just couldn't
rebound from it because I had worked so hard to get to that
place of having that booked. So that was like the first blow

(15:46):
of the quarter and. Then those two cancellations
were was it anything due to you?No, it was purely budget cuts
and there could have been scenarios where the they had,
they decided, how do I want to say this?
You never know what goes on whenpeople are truly making budget
cuts. But I had really good
relationships with all of these clients and they, it was hard

(16:10):
for them to call me and tell me that this was occurring.
So regardless of the reason, I don't think it had anything to
do with us. I think they just had to
reprioritize and we were on the chopping block.
As a result, it impacted you greatly and personally.
Yeah. So then a couple weeks later,
our goals came out for Q1. I had worked so hard that year

(16:33):
really to maintain my status as #1 not so much to hit my goal,
but to maintain my status as #1 and the thought of needing to
repeat that exponentially, I could just feel it in my body
like I could not, I couldn't handle it.
So there had been this company that had been trying to recruit
me for a period of time, and I finally answered one of their

(16:57):
many inquiries and I just said, sure, let's talk.
I went to lunch, I did all the interviews.
They offered me the job and I accepted it.
And after I accepted it, I had this really difficult moment of
realizing I don't actually want this job and I don't want the

(17:17):
job that I have now. So like, it was the definition
of stock, right? I was just like, I have no idea
what I'm doing, but this pattern, I'm just getting
another job is not the solution,but it's what I've just done.
So I'm going to live with it. But this is not the solution
here. So I started the new job, wasn't

(17:40):
super psyched and went from a very high profile big like
mobile advertising company to more of a startup that was well
recognized. But it was just, it was still
like in kind of the nitty grittylike startup days.
And I just didn't have the energy for that.
And that for the first few weeksI was there, I think it was a

(18:01):
month later, I was sprinting on a treadmill insanely fast and in
a moment's notice I tore my hamstring, my groin, my
adductor, and I fractured my pelvis.
Oh my goodness. And I also didn't ask anyone for
help. I pretend like I just didn't.
No one even knew that I was thatinjured because I just was

(18:25):
stayed silent. Which is a whole separate topic,
but that was the beginning of the end.
It was. And I literally interpret that
moment as the divine being like,stop running from your problems.
Stop. You just took this job you don't
want stop. Yeah, you literally you, you
just said what I was thinking because earlier as that you
describe heading into the goals of Q1 and feeling like, Oh my

(18:48):
gosh, like I do, I have it in meto push this peak performance
yet again. And in my head I'm thinking,
yeah, that's the rat race. It's every year I have to
improve on year over year performance and I have to
maintain the status. And getting injured on the
treadmill is the literal manifestation of the analogy of

(19:11):
the rat race. You're literally trying to
outrun your past performance andkeep pushing forward.
And you didn't just burn out, you got injured physically.
It's exactly what I was thinkingin my head and then it literally
happened. You're it's also analogous to an
athlete. I can imagine somebody who is
looked up to as maybe a leader on a team, somebody who is an

(19:36):
All Star athlete of in any sport.
And the world is watching them and they're putting up numbers
year after year, season after season.
And at some point you do get older, hopefully.
And you have to keep maintainingbecause you have this image, you
have this, you're an icon and people are expecting something
of you, if not the fans, then atleast your team mates.

(19:57):
And so you have to keep pushing,but probably for years before
any retirement. Each athlete probably has
something in their head saying how much more do I have in me?
And it's probably exhausting at a certain point saying I just
don't know if I have it in me. Yeah, and I didn't have it in me
anymore. And that was really like the

(20:17):
beginning of the end. That role lasted for about 6
months and then I was in a depression.
I didn't know that I was in a depression, but I had just, I
had hired a coach to help me pivot and then I hired a new
coach right before I went on this trip.
And basically I went on this trip, came back, the trip is a
whole story. I came back and resigned.

(20:40):
I had absolutely no idea what else I was going to do.
And it was about six months later that I started coaching.
And the coaching was just like my coach had been waiting for me
to discover, like to embrace theidea of coaching because she had
suggested it very early on. And I also was telling her like,

(21:04):
wow, all of these people from myold career are reaching out to
me, asking me how did I do this?What am I, what's going on?
What am I doing? And I told her I'm they're not
asking because they want to hearmy story.
They're asking because they wantto know how to do it themselves.
And she we were on the phone, she goes, Karen, those are your

(21:24):
clients. And it was like, it was like a
huge, like it was so obvious in hindsight, but.
It was. It's obvious because it is
literally what you were doing with her.
Yeah, and they, I think my ability to build relationships
and connect with people meaningfully, that's a skill
that that I established. It's part of who you are too.

(21:47):
But that was a skill that I honed and established,
particularly in sales, and that created this whole base of
people that became clients. So that was really natural.
But there were other things going on in my previous career.
There were people who reached out to me when I was working in
advertising or ad sales who wanted to make that change

(22:09):
themselves. Specifically into coaching or
just AD change? No.
So they were like doing something totally different and
they wanted to get into advertising, whether it was the
agency side, whether it was the sales side.
And I loved helping them do thatlike that.
And it was like a side job I wasdoing on the side.
I loved editing people's resumesand helping them tell a better

(22:33):
story than what they were. Then.
What was it like putting together a story versus just
these things on paper and how tosell themselves in terms of the
expertise that they had and the experience to pivot?
It was very fulfilling work to you, but what's the one thing
that was missing from the job? That wasn't my job.
Exactly is that you weren't being paid.

(22:55):
Yeah, it was not being paid for it.
I loved doing it. It didn't matter, especially as
I got further along in sales, like I was making such a
significant income that that that was just fun.
It was just fun. And it just lit me up to be able
to help people and then see thattransition, have them call me

(23:17):
when they got a job. It was the best.
And I did it with my clients too, like how and people who
worked for me previously in the agency like to support people
with getting promotions and I really coached people on that.
One of my favorite Co workers and employees for a really long
time always said sometimes I just wanted you to give me the

(23:38):
answers but you always helped merealize the answers on my own
and as an employee that can be really frustrating.
But I remember him saying that and he said it a lot.
And that's coaching, right? It's not, you don't, you're not
just telling someone how to do something.
You're supporting them with finding their way.

(23:59):
It's the and the way that they want to be doing something.
Well, it's the power of self discovery.
It's a that's a theme and principle that has come up a lot
in my life, as taught to me by my father.
How much more powerful it is to help lead someone, ask the right
questions to get them to come tothe conclusion themselves and
they will remember and take it to heart so much more.
It's your job is to ask the questions to tease out what is

(24:23):
hiding inside or that they need to get out and be more aware of.
Yep, that's exactly it. And there have been instances in
my coaching career where I this is probably the biggest pivot
from sales is sales. I really did believe that like
this was the best solution. You should buy us.

(24:45):
We're better than other things, and I did have to unlearn some
of that as a coach because the Ithought I knew better for a
while and really I don't. And everyone's path is their
own. We have free will for a reason.
And I don't believe in accidents.
I don't believe in right and wrong.
Like every decision that you make is a step closer to where

(25:09):
you're meant to go. Even if it's not what I would
do. Everyone's on their own journey.
I can see how if you are very good at sales, you might, you
might think of it as manipulation, but ultimately
what it is persuasion. You want to, you want to push
your product and services. But ultimately the best type of

(25:29):
sales isn't that you're selling somebody on something, it's that
you're listening and understanding their needs in
order to respond to it. And hopefully your product is
the right solution for them. Understanding them greatly helps
inform you on how to sell to them.
Most of the time it is a good solution.
Is it the best 1? I don't know.

(25:49):
And that's really not important.That's not your job.
Your job is to say, is this going to address your needs, the
pain points you have today? Is this going to be a good
solution for you? In coaching, it's somewhat the
same. You obviously shouldn't be
aggressive and you shouldn't manipulate, but you need to
understand their needs greatly in order to then be able to ask
the right questions to help themdraw that conclusion, to guide

(26:12):
them and help them find the right path.
I think that there is a huge overlap in the skills.
Yeah, there is. And I would say that on top of
that, like one of the things that I did in sales that I no
longer do now in in selling my services is I never said no to
anyone. What because I just wanted the

(26:34):
money to make the goal right? And to see my percentage go up
and see my name on that leaderboard.
So I would say yes to things, even if it wasn't always the
best fit and I would make it work for them.
But that is something that I have really had to work on as a
coach is saying no, like saying I'm not the right person for

(26:58):
you. This is not a fit or just saying
no in general, like something that's not working in the client
dynamic. I never did that before.
Like sales was great for me previously because I could just
be like a yes person, right? And I didn't want to deal with
any confrontation. So sales was great because I

(27:19):
didn't have to deal with any of it.
I just said yes and sold the thing and moved on.
And I think I touched upon this earlier, but I personally really
had to learn how to be direct, how to say no, how to call out
what was happening right in front of me in like in terms of

(27:40):
a dynamic that wasn't working ora behavior that someone is
exhibiting right in real time. I was really avoidant of all of
that. When you mean call out, do you
mean to be aware of it and acknowledge and name it to
yourself or to literally say it to the person and call out their
behavior? To name it to another person and
for me to right, to be able to just to be able to name it

(28:01):
versus like brushing it under the rug because at that you
won't be an ineffective coach ifyou're not naming what's
happening in a given moment. These are all things I had to
learn in the coaching program I took, right?
Like these were actual topics like how to say no to people.
I've read the books on how to say no and I've read the books

(28:23):
on yes is the way I've read themall.
I like that they're in conflict with one another, but they
ultimately mean the same thing. How to regain control of your
time and IP? It's up to do the things you
want to avoid the things that don't interest you.
I had to learn, even though it'sour natural way of being,
especially if you look at like toddlers my daughter's age, like
to slow down. I had to learn how to slow down

(28:44):
to the pace of life. I had to slow down to recognize
what was happening inside of me in a given situation to check
in. That's not OK with me or I'm
feeling really uncomfortable or I'm feeling contracted.
But I want to say this thing to someone rapes.
I had to learn how to slow down.My goodness, that's taken me
years to slow down. But my whole life previously was

(29:09):
on auto drive and it was Is autodrive even the?
Same autopilot or or self drive.Cruise control.
Cruise control is a good one. We could go with anyone.
Yeah, but I didn't know how to be still.
I didn't know how to slow down. And that was a skill in my old

(29:31):
career. That's what helped me excel, but
it doesn't help me as a coach. What helps me as a coach and a
human being and a mother and a wife and all the things and a
friend is like to slow down and that helps us speed up.
There were a lot of things I hadto learn that it was like what

(29:51):
we were talking about earlier, having to unlearn these things
that I thought made me successful and they did in some
way, but that success felt very empty.
So learning to do it the a different way, in a way that has
left me with much greater fulfillment, yeah.
Yeah, we we evolve also over time.
What work for you then doesn't work for you necessarily today.

(30:14):
And the new skills that you haveto pick up and learn are the
ones that address your current needs today.
Yeah, and I always tell my God, I must say this three times a
week to my clients because people said it to me too.
You're 50% is other people's 200%.
You're 60% is other people's 100%.

(30:35):
So like really learning to recognize that I don't need to
push as hard as I once believed.Yeah, I completely understand
that. Yeah, I was miserable before, so
something had to change. There was, I assume that a
period where it was fulfilling and exciting and enjoyable until

(30:56):
it wasn't. No, you were since the
beginning. You.
You think you were miserable for13 years of advertising?
Yeah, I think there was a there was a short time frame in my
second job out of college that was fun because I was learning a
lot and learning how to be the professional like that was

(31:18):
really fun. I think it's hard for my a lot
of my friends to hear that I found it so miserable.
But the the honest truth is I really didn't have a sense of
purpose and I wasn't fulfilled. And I was constantly questioning

(31:38):
why is my life this way? What else is there?
What else can I be doing? And making decisions that left
me feeling worse rather than better.
I think I just spent 13 years skating around on the surface
because I didn't know how to drop into a deeper level of
inquiry for myself. So it's really hard to say that

(32:02):
out loud, to say that, yeah, I spent 13 years just really
unfulfilled. Were there fun moments?
Absolutely. I have great friends that came
out of that that were present during that time, yes, but I
inside of myself was not very happy with me and with the life

(32:22):
that I was leading. But I just didn't know what else
to do so. I'm collecting a lot of
takeaways from this podcast, Notjust today's episode, but
beginning this. I have started a list of
takeaways that include a bunch of questions I don't yet know
how to answer or resolve. And so here, this one right here

(32:43):
is exactly what you're describing in your 13 years
feeling unhappy, unfulfilled, and yet good at sales within
that role. So this question that I came up
with is how do we reconcile not being interested in a job that
you're really good at? I mean, the first thing that
popped into my head was life is too short.

(33:05):
It's the same as like, how do you reconcile a job that pays
you a lot but that you don't like?
It's, it's the same. And I mean, it does some of it
comes down to your values. It really does.
I really firmly believe that life is too short and there's so

(33:27):
much that the world has to offerus, whether it's through our
learning about ourselves or traveling and learning about
other cultures. Like I just I don't know if
that's a good quote UN quote answer.
There's no answer to that question.
It's not. It's a question that I have come
up with that I don't yet personally know how to answer or

(33:48):
reconcile. It's it comes down to an
individual choice, but there's alot of reasons why you might not
like the job you're not interested in anymore.
It could be the pay, it could bethe monotony.
It's not going anywhere. You're stagnant in your career
growth, the environment. You could just simply be bored
of the subject matter. You might predict the future

(34:09):
either of the market or the thatbusiness itself doesn't have a a
long future ahead of it. And so there could be a lot of
things that are leading to feel unfulfilled and not wanting to
do this job, but you're really good at it.
I've gotten offers to do jobs that I really don't want to do.
So I'm like, I don't want to do that.
I'm really good at it and I don't want to do that.
And it's very challenging if you're really good at something

(34:32):
but you just don't want to do that job anymore.
Yeah, I, I relate to that 1000%.I was really good at sales and I
had been often asked to move into leadership positions and I
didn't want to do that because Ihad been a manager at different
levels at the on the agency sideand I just wasn't interested.

(34:55):
I just wanted to worry about myself.
I didn't want to manage A-Team. I loved the autonomy.
And when I left, people were like, what are you do?
Like you're on the fast track, What are you doing?
And it was just like, I don't know.
But not I have to trust that there's something better out
there than this. What you're doing is you're

(35:18):
you're living your own truth andneeds and what you're not doing
is fulfilling their expectationsthat they've imposed on you.
Yeah. And it's, I'm not buying into
this default or de facto model of success, right.
This definition of success that I've been handed isn't working
for me. So I need to re evaluate what

(35:39):
that is. And that was ultimately what it
was about, like my values and mydefinition of what I wanted,
like what was a successful life to me didn't mirror the path
that I was following. So that required a reset.
And you did. You took control and you made
that decision and you followed that.

(35:59):
That curiosity and interest. Commendable.
Not hard, not easy to do. Yeah, yeah, no, it's been a
total roller coaster and I wouldn't change any of it.
The question I have been asking people for years is given your
natural strengths and your learned skills, what job might

(36:20):
you excel at but are also exceedingly overqualified for?
And what I like to help prep people with this question is
that it should be something that's like very fulfilling and
guilty pleasure. You enjoy doing it, but it also
must be a job that you are qualified for.
So if it requires having a certification, a license or
level of education that you don't possess, you are not
overqualified for that. And.

(36:42):
The yeah, that's what stumps me.Right.
So I'll give you some of mine toto, Yeah.
So Executive Assistant, and I'm very organized, I'm detail
oriented, I'm meticulous. I have a knack for predicting
needs, for planning, for scheduling and for creating.

(37:03):
And so I think that a lot of that would lend.
I'm a great gatekeeper too. I think that a lot of that would
lend towards being an excellent executive assistant.
The same vein, I think I'd be a really good waiter.
I'm very conversational. I'm happy to make suggestions
when asked, make connections when people are looking for
that. You like this, try that.

(37:23):
And then the last one I have here is Certified Pre owned car
Salesman. Certified pre owned.
Certified pre owned. Yeah, exactly.
It really doesn't matter. I thought that was funny.
But the, the car sales, I, I think that vehicles have an
opportunity to be as impactful and maybe a commentary on one's

(37:44):
personality and lifestyle just as much as like your, their,
your clothes and helping people figure it out if they don't
already know what they're looking for.
But that's all sales still. But it's sales for your
lifestyle. And I love that stuff too.
So that's, those are examples like I am overqualified for each
of those and it doesn't undermine any of those jobs.

(38:05):
That's the risk by the way, of this question is, I always
wondered if maybe the audience would be insulted if somebody
says that they are overqualifiedfor something.
But in reality, if you're insulted, that's your own
problem. There's always something that
and everyone is overqualified for.
It's not a commentary on the listeners or the individuals.
It's it's this person in front of me.
So the point is that I'm curiousif you have any ideas of how you

(38:28):
might answer. Yes, and, but so it's
interesting because my first thing was like, oh, maybe like a
restaurant host or a server Hostess was really more where my
brain went. But then I was like, then I was
thinking like, oh, a hair stylist, but I'm not qualified

(38:49):
to do that. And then I thought a manicurist
that I'm not qualified to do that.
But I'm good at painting nails. But I feel like where I was
headed was this idea of in environments where someone is
sitting with you and just tells you a lot.

(39:10):
And so like manicures can be oneof those places, hairstyle like
this. The hair salon is one of those
places. And also home organization would
be, oh man, would I thrive at that.
I actually thought that would belike, that could be a career

(39:30):
thing for a little while. I don't know that it would bring
me the same level of joy that coaching does, but I love the
organization. I love the releasing of things
and I love even like working with myself or my husband or my
daughter on like letting go of stuff and the psychology of

(39:54):
that. I think that stuff is all are.
You a big fan of the Marie Kondoway?
No, I'm not too much. I'm a big fan of My Way.
The reason why I ask these questions is can we find the
through line between the jobs that you believe you'd be really
good at, you have confidence that it's something you would
enjoy, you'd like you'd knock itout of the ballpark and be

(40:14):
really great at it. Because ultimately the through
line, the commonality, the skills that are needed to do
those things very well to excel at those jobs.
How do I leverage those skills and interests into what I
currently do in this job? Or in your case, if you're
coaching somebody into the next thing, let's unpack these things

(40:35):
and figure out where are your skills and strengths and
interests and fulfillment and enjoyment to figure out what
jobs out there incorporate thesein a meaningful way.
OK, wait, So I just had a thought about this.
So two things. The first is the organization
thing. One of the skills that I have

(40:55):
that I probably had it before, but I didn't really, I could, I
didn't really recognize it, is that I can pull together
disparate pieces of someone's story or like things that
they're talking about and make sense of it as to like why
they're showing up a certain wayor why they're doing something.
And that is a gift. And like organization, is that

(41:16):
right? It's like taking things from
different places and being able to cohesively put them where
they fit best or where they belong.
Yes. And I want to give you this
because my friend asked me once and now I ask all of my clients
this, but she said, what did youwant to be when you were little?
I told her I wanted to be an FBIand ACIA agent and I wanted to

(41:40):
be a surgeon. Let's Fast forward to my current
life. I can't even watch like a drama
show, much less a crime show on television.
And I get faint like one drop ofblood and I'm out.
OK. But these were the things that I
wanted to do when I was little. And the reason that she asked

(42:03):
me, and I love this and This is why I asked my clients is
because there were through linesthere.
So like FBICIA, it's all about putting together the pieces of
the puzzles, investigating, helping solve something.
That's what I do for people. I help them solve this puzzle of
what am I meant to do? Surgeon same idea.

(42:24):
It's let's look and see. Let's find what's really going
on and let's resolve it and helpyou move forward in a quote UN
quote better way. And it's very it's detailed.
It's like it's very focused, it's very intensive in terms of
how you show up to something like that.
You're very prepared and very present.

(42:45):
You have to be, otherwise you'regoing to kill someone on the
table. And that is literally a
representation of what I do now is coaching.
So I feel like you could take that question for your podcast
of what did you want to do when you were little?
Because I feel like there are just so many clues and it's been
true for every single client that I have ever asked.

(43:07):
If they tell me, oh I wanted to do XYZ, there's always a through
line as it pertains to what theywant to do well, like what
they're drawn to do next even ifthey're not ready to go do it.
Yeah, that makes complete sense to me.
I actually, you don't know this,but a lot of times I start the
conversation for these podcasts that I eventually edit out is

(43:29):
what did you want to be when yougrow up?
I actually asked that a lot. Really.
I do ask that and in fact, when people are saying regarding
where I'm at right now professionally, I've, I have
said like I'm still trying to figure out what I want to be
when I grow up. The other thing that I always
think is so important to note, especially when I'm talking to
clients about this, is that whenyou're young, you only know so

(43:52):
many jobs, right? And like, when you think about
the world we live in today, the amount, the quantity of job
possibilities is endless. And what I'm talking about with
clients all the time is like what you might want to do next
might not be in your awareness yet because we have this limited
view and kids literally are theyknow like.

(44:15):
Teacher. Nurse firefighter, right like
they know the things that they've experienced.
They don't know anything beyond that, so that.
They don't know data analyst. Right.
But they like, so they pick whatthey know based on the the
essence of the thing that they like doing.
So for me, if I liked investigating, I like the people

(44:38):
dynamics. I like learning how to read
people. Did I know any of that when I
was little? No, of course not.
But I knew that there was the essence of something that I
really liked in that. And I just think that's so
important because no one person knows every single career path
that exists. They don't, they literally don't
or job title. And like, I tend to work with a

(45:01):
lot of Do you know your human design?
No, and I've never even heard that term.
I work with a lot of manifestersand manifesters are initiators
and they tend to create things that don't exist yet or they
take something that does exist and put their own spin on it.
And so I tell my clients who are, who have that

(45:24):
classification and human design,because it's not who you are,
but that they may not know what they're meant to do next because
it doesn't even exist. Like it might not exist.
I also I have a list of dream jobs kind of things and has
nothing to do with what's realistic either.
I think part of that issue with what you want to do when you
grow up is that the limited knowledge and exposure to the

(45:46):
options of careers as well as you move into that college age,
you start think you're, you're pushed to think practically.
So when you're, when you're in 7th grade, you want to be a
baseball player. But when you're in college,
you're, you're told, and you start to get to the point of
statistically speaking, I won't be.
So therefore, let me focus on put my efforts into something

(46:08):
without diminishing return. I'm not going to keep investing
in my hitting lessons because atthis point it's unlikely I'm
going to, I'm going to actually get a, get an offer to join the
Cubs. And so we start thinking
practically and rationally. And you abandoned some of those
dreams. It's the difference.
It's the difference between whatdo I want to do and what should
I do. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(46:30):
Gosh, I really believe anything is possible.
That's my own personal mantra. The genesis of this was from me,
but also it's a subject matter that's always interesting to me
because it's all about human stories.
And who are you? Who's Karen?
Who's different from everybody else that I talked to?
I have now interviewed I think two other people besides you who

(46:50):
were in AD sales. And one question that's an
outsider might have is you've already had that, why would you
want to have that? I said Because I have never had
Karen before. Yeah, it's always.
Different as well as the jump from what from that's to the
other thing or from that thing from something completely
different. And, and, and, and even if it
was the exact same A to B as somebody else, that person is

(47:11):
not Karen. And so your unique decision
making process and skills that you possess.
I can interview 10 teachers and I guarantee you that a third of
them will identify different skills than the rest.
I'm just naturally curious aboutthese things.
I find them fascinating. I find people interesting and I
find it empowering. I told you this along, like when

(47:34):
we first spoke, that I wish I had thought of this idea for a
podcast. And I really mean that because
it's amazing. Like I am so thrilled to have it
as a resource for my own clientsto be able to scroll through and
pick what resonates with them. The metrics that I'm that I'm

(47:54):
tracking here is time. And another maybe observation is
I would say I have yet to be this personal in an interview
for the show. So I guess maybe that's a
testament to your profession andyour skills that I felt
comfortable enough to talk a little bit about myself when

(48:16):
that's typically the opposite ofmy goal.
So I just want to thank you for being present and being a
listening ear and sound advice so far.
And I just didn't want to. I wanted you to know that that's
not lost on me, that this is what you do and you're clearly
good at it and accidentally turnthis into a therapy session for
myself. I don't think so.

(48:37):
I don't even have my coaching hat on right now.
It's actually a miracle that I've learned in my life how to
turn it on and turn it off because I could not turn it off
when I first started in this career.
And I really appreciate you saying all of that.
And I appreciate your transparency.
And I also think what a service it is to be real about where

(48:58):
you're at and to for people to understand.
Like, yeah, he's asking that question because he doesn't have
it figured out either. I think that's a beautiful
thing. I think we can be so quick to
assume that people have all the answers, and really, none of us
have all the answers. So I love what you're doing and
I appreciate the invite to come on in your trust in Ari to to

(49:22):
ask and to explore it. So it's been a lot of fun.
Thank you, Karen, appreciate youbeing here.
I want to thank Ari Stein for recommending Karen as today's
guest and to you, our listeners,for joining us on this episode
of Transferable Skills. Remember, the skills you've
gained can take you anywhere. Until next time, keep exploring
those transferable skills.

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Digital Ad Sales into Career Coaching | Karen Ozeri [38]

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